Senedd Cymru (Welsh Parliament), 23 September 2026

280 contributions from 58 members. The official report.

1. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Enterprise, Connectivity and Energy

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Good afternoon and welcome to Wednesday's Plenary session. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Enterprise, Connectivity and Energy. Question 1, Vikki Howells.

Vikki Howells (Labour, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

1. What are the Welsh Government's priorities for improving access to public transport in Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr? OQ64484

Mark Hooper (Plaid Cymru, Pen-y-bont Bro Morgannwg)

Thank you for the question, Vikki. We want to make it easier for more people to travel on buses and trains in Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr. That means better connections between bus and rail, keeping fares fair and providing reliable services. The south Wales metro is central to this work. We are also investing in improving local bus services and improving interchanges such as Merthyr.

Vikki Howells (Labour, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

Thank you, Deputy Minister. Now, capping bus fares at £2 for adults was a key pledge in my party's manifesto from May, building on our work in Government, where we introduced £1 bus fares for young people and provided free bus travel for older people and people with disabilities. Now, Prime Minister Andy Burnham has announced that, from January 2027, single bus fares in England will be capped at £2 for adults. This will, of course, mean a Barnett consequential for the Welsh Government. So, will you use this to introduce a similar £2 cap for fares in Wales? And if not, will you explain why bus users in Wales should lose out?

Mark Hooper (Plaid Cymru, Pen-y-bont Bro Morgannwg)

This Government is committed to buses being a key part of the transport infrastructure, especially for those people who maybe cannot afford and don't have access to a private car. We've made sure that the bus fare for young people is continued and that's a commitment throughout the term of this Government. It was in the programme for government that we talked about yesterday. We're looking forward to seeing the consequentials come in, but, as an ex-Minister, you know that the consequentials come into the Government, the Government then decides on the priorities it sets to that. You've seen the priorities in the programme for government yesterday. But if I can give you one reassurance, I think that bus services are one of the key things that this Government will be differentiating itself for over the next four years, because we recognise the importance of them to those people who are furthest away from their own transport solutions.

David Hughes (Reform UK, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

Minister, many people in Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr still struggle to access jobs, education and healthcare because of poor transport links. Given the significant amount of public money already spent on transport projects in Wales, can the Cabinet Secretary please explain why so many communities remain poorly served, and what steps will be taken to improve reliability and accessibility before asking taxpayers to fund further major schemes? Thank you.

Mark Hooper (Plaid Cymru, Pen-y-bont Bro Morgannwg)

Thank you for the question, David. I think the key thing for this is actually starting to recognise the truth of the matter. We've got a Transport for Wales service that's hitting its time targets ahead of everyone else in the UK. The latest statistics show that Transport for Wales was hitting over 80 per cent within three minutes of its required time. So, it is providing the service it needs to provide. The second part of this is about making sure we have the funding to be able to invest in that infrastructure. If I remember, when we talked about rail devolution when I came to this Siambr relatively recently, the benches behind me were against us having extra rail devolution, which is for precisely the same reasons that you're asking the questions. We want to make sure that people can access jobs, healthcare and just make society work. I'm just going to reiterate a point I made to Vikki a few seconds ago. This is important for us in terms of not just rail transport, it's important to us from a bus perspective as well, and I think that's going to be key for these four years ahead.

Lis McLean (Plaid Cymru, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

Parents and children across Rhondda Cynon Taf are concerned about the impact of the council's decisions, which is a Labour-led council, to make school transport as complex as possible for children who just want to know whether they're going to get to school safely. The impact of this decision is significant. It affects local people who can't get on the bus because it is full of school pupils on their way to school and pupil attendance has been gravely affected. More concerning still, children can't go to the school they want to go to, including Welsh-medium schools, because there are fewer buses available or because of changes to the terms of the Learner Travel (Wales) Measure 2008. Deputy Minister, will you make a statement today supporting parents in RCT who want to make the Labour-led council prioritise the safety of children?

Mark Hooper (Plaid Cymru, Pen-y-bont Bro Morgannwg)

Thank you for the question, Lis.

Mark Hooper (Plaid Cymru, Pen-y-bont Bro Morgannwg)

I think there are a couple of things here. One, it's very complicated. I think one of the things that learner travel has shown me is that this is probably the biggest difficult problem I've got on my horizon, excepting that I've got the M4 and the Menai on that as well. So, it shows the complexity of it. And I think it's been shown by this Government that we've taken this on as a cross-portfolio opportunity, because, as you say, this affects—. We're talking about education and Welsh learner education, but also post-16 education. And one of the things that I found most disconcerting is that, ultimately, learner travel and learner transport should be an enabler of people's education; it should not be a disenabler. So, this Government is keen and it was in our 100-day commitment. We've started work on it, particularly in relation to the Welsh language first, but then we're going to be focusing on post-16 education and, following that, it'll be additional learning needs learner transport as well.

Joe Martin (Reform UK, Caerdydd Penarth)

2. How will the Welsh Government's energy policy support its efforts to achieve its net-zero targets? OQ64525

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

The Welsh Government’s national energy strategy will take a whole-systems approach, replacing the previous renewable electricity generation target with an emissions-based energy target. This will help identify where action delivers the greatest contribution to our ambition of achieving net zero by 2040.

Joe Martin (Reform UK, Caerdydd Penarth)

Thank you, Minister. Minister, releasing carbon dioxide into the atmosphere causes temperatures on earth to rise, and that isn't good for any of us. And we need to achieve whatever reduction in emissions is necessary to secure the long-term future of mankind. That's why, in its current formulation, net zero is so frustrating. Deindustrialisation and a reliance on China and India are not long-term solutions. Renewables, again, are not a long-term solution, neither is burying our heads in the sand about the economic and geopolitical problems created by net zero. The only long-term solution to the challenges that we face, both as a nation and as a species, is nuclear power. So, I'm excited about the development of small modular reactors at Wylfa. After that, Minister, what's next for nuclear power in Wales?

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

I just would point out to the Member that I think the context is key here, isn't it? So, the situation in Wales where we have unique assets—latent potential in many cases in terms of green energy—is that, actually, green energy is the means for our reindustrialisation, not our deindustrialisation. I'm specifically referring to, for example, our globally significant potential in terms of floating offshore wind, and the well-known, unique natural advantages we have in terms of tidal technologies, for example. We could, therefore, not just generate the electricity through those technologies, but also capture the supply chain and build up a manufacturing base on that level.

In relation to his point about nuclear, I would just point out that, actually, the move towards an emissions-based target includes not just renewable sectors, but also other low-carbon technologies that include nuclear, alongside carbon capture and storage.

Huw Thomas (Labour, Caerdydd Penarth)

I'm pleased to hear the Minister's reference to reindustrialisation. I welcome that. I would also agree on the importance of the nuclear industry in achieving that. Last week, I visited Hinkley Point, which is a nuclear power station that is being built with a great deal of Welsh steel, and there's an opportunity to go further, beyond the new project in Wylfa, in expanding nuclear in Wales.

Huw Thomas (Labour, Caerdydd Penarth)

But on the net-zero target set by Welsh Government for 2040, we welcome that target. We will push you on it. But that target is meaningless unless the Minister is prepared to deliver the renewable energy infrastructure needed to achieve it, and you referenced renewables in your earlier answer. Do you accept that Wales cannot reach net zero in that time frame without a major expansion of onshore wind as well as offshore wind, and that that in itself cannot be delivered without grid infrastructure and pylons to connect it? And if you do accept that premise, will you commit to supporting that infrastructure and those projects, even where those decisions prove difficult and locally unpopular?

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

I'm grateful to the Member for his question. There are a number of elements to that question, but, of course, everything is connected at the end of the day, isn't it?

With the national energy strategy, one of the major elements will be setting out the different contributions that will be made by each form of technology, and then, of course, at a spatial level—so, that's one aspect—and setting out what the different elements will contribute. The decision with regard to Gwyndod, to all intents and purposes, has already been made, and that's the basis on which all of the energy stakeholders across Britain are planning.

That element has to be a part of the mix, but, certainly, we do accept that there is a contribution to be made by onshore green energy, and there are implications in terms of ensuring that the infrastructure with regard to grid connection is there to facilitate that to happen in the most efficient way with regard to our systems and our economy, recognising, of course, that there is a need in any planning framework to strike the right balance in terms of the interests and voice of the community.

Jane Dodds (Liberal Democrat, Brycheiniog Tawe Nedd)

Good afternoon, Minister.

Jane Dodds (Liberal Democrat, Brycheiniog Tawe Nedd)

I'm really pleased to hear from Reform UK that there's not a rejection of the net-zero targets, which we have previously heard. So, I'm hoping that there's been a bit of a change on those benches over there. But I would like just to come back on the point that was made by Joe Martin in relation to selective forms of energy, because what we should be doing is everything. The world is on fire. We've seen the wildfires across Wales this summer, and, actually, we have at our fingertips the opportunity to deliver a whole raft of renewable energy, and here in Wales, as you've said, we've got a real opportunity.

Very different to my friend on my right—you're not on the right, I know—. We've talked about this before, but I would like to give you another opportunity, just to be clear on this, that, in developing onshore wind, your commitment still is to undergrounding those transmission cables, because that's what our communities want. I'm hoping you'll confirm that, and also that we're looking at how communities can own that onshore wind as well. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

I'm grateful to the Member for her question, and she is absolutely right, of course, that our national energy strategy will be looking particularly at those technologies where Wales is well placed, in terms of its natural assets, in the way that I described, to develop. But we need to be mindful, of course, of nascent technologies, which are at different stages of maturity at any point. So, this area never stands still, and we need to be building the capacity for Wales to be a test bed for some of those technologies that are on the horizon as well.

In relation to grid infrastructure, can I take the opportunity as well to say—I should be able to recite this without looking at my notes—that we are clearly committed to delivering our manifesto commitment in relation to the distribution network of 132 kV and below, which is in favour of undergrounding, with only exceptions in terms of overhead, through low wooden poles, or other similar, equally unintrusive infrastructure?

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Thank you. I now call the party spokespeople to question the Cabinet Minister. The Reform UK spokesperson, Jason O'Connell.

Jason O'Connell (Reform UK, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Minister, this week marks three years since the introduction of the default 20 mph limit across Wales. That's three years that motorists have been treated as a problem, and three years since this institution has ignored all the calls to overturn this disastrous policy. The cost is 1 billion extra minutes to car journey times across Wales each year. That's 1 billion minutes, and a policy estimated to cost up to £9 billion to the Welsh economy. And, after all of that, Welsh road deaths are still rising throughout the varying speed zones. Now, Minister, every one of those deaths is a tragedy. Road safety deserves a strategy that's more than just changing road signs. For years, when Labour was in Government, your party backed this single-minded approach. You defended it, you backed it, and now the data tells us it's clearly not working. So, Cabinet Minister, will you finally listen to the data and the hundreds of thousands of people who continue to speak out against this policy and end this experiment?

Mark Hooper (Plaid Cymru, Pen-y-bont Bro Morgannwg)

I hesitate to thank you for the question, Jason, but I will do out of courtesy. At the business statement last week, you were reminded to use data carefully, and you used the same data now as you used then. This data doesn't relate to 20 mph. Let's give you the actual data: in 2025, there were 1,469 collisions on roads with 20 mph and 30 mph speed limits combined, which is 2 per cent higher than in 2024, when there were 1,445. But it is the second lowest annual number ever recorded in Wales. So, this proves that, when we've reduced speed limits, it's actually reduced collisions. And I've heard it from people over the other side of the Siambr, and I appreciate it. This saves children's lives. This is a policy that this Government supports. We recognise there were ways we could have done it better; we talked about that throughout the last term, and I think we'd say the same thing again. However, we've got to make sure we follow the evidence, and when the evidence gets polluted by words that aren't actually true, it distorts things. The one thing that I'm sure that I'm going to make sure I do is that I am evidence led; I'm not going to be just led by rhetoric that is from the benches behind.

Jason O'Connell (Reform UK, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

I'm pretty sure I heard the data tell me there that accidents were going up, but that's the data for you.

Cabinet Minister, you can dispute all the figures you like, but you can't dispute your party's own record. This goes far beyond the 20 mph default limit. For years, major road projects have been frozen, cancelled or ruled out while congestion's got worse and motorists have been left in traffic up and down Wales. Your own leader made his priorities perfectly clear during the election campaign. He said that Plaid would keep the default limit and that it would not be reviewed. So, let us be clear: while we accept that this is a policy that you inherited from the previous Government, it's an approach you actively supported. You spent years telling the people of Wales that this was all about safety, when in fact, as most people know, up and down the country, it was all about the pursuit of damaging net-zero dogma. Absolutely. Without the proper infrastructure investment, frustrated Welsh motorists would have no choice but to use public transport—isn't that right, Minister? So, rather than punishing motorists as a transport strategy, will you actually invest in the proper road infrastructure that Wales actually needs?

Mark Hooper (Plaid Cymru, Pen-y-bont Bro Morgannwg)

Do you know, it's great when you see young people in the Chamber looking down, and looking down at what we're talking about today? It's with them in mind that I support this policy, because, ultimately, this is not about dogma, this is about safety and particularly children's safety. So, this is something that this Government supports; I think it sounds like it's got support from across other parts of the Siambr. Because, when it comes to dogma, there's no party more interested in dogma than the party behind me when they're talking about things like this. Ultimately, I care more about those children who are up there than I do about answering questions that are like this.

Llŷr Powell (Reform UK, Blaenau Gwent Caerffili Rhymni)

Oh, you don't care about answering questions from an elected Member. Shocking.

Jason O'Connell (Reform UK, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

Another cop out. But the good news is we also care about young people. We want to make sure they have jobs well into the future and our economy thrives. Absolutely. Now, in June, you stood in this Chamber and made a very clear commitment to review the position on the M4 relief road. You said this would not be another review that kicks the can down the road—the can would likely end up in a traffic jam anyway. You said you would return to the Senedd early in autumn with your Government's way forward. Well, Cabinet Minister, rather depressingly, it is autumn. You ruled out a completely viable black route, but the people sitting in congestion around Newport every day don't know what this Government is going to do about the traffic. So, it's time to come clean. Before the election, your party promised a solution on the M4. But I know, and you know, that you have nothing. You were just trying to waste time while you figure it all out at the last minute. In fact, you've taken so long, we've done the work for you. We've revised the costings for the M4 relief road, and £2.8 billion is the updated cost. We are more than happy to continue the work, secure the funding, take over your brief and get the job done ourselves. So, Minister, can you tell us what is your solution to the congestion on the M4? Diolch.

Mark Hooper (Plaid Cymru, Pen-y-bont Bro Morgannwg)

The Member is well aware that we're going to be coming back to this Siambr on 6 October with an update based on evidence. The reason we want evidence is to make sure that we make the right decisions and we don't—. We're not kicking the can down the road, we're actually making the right decisions based on what the evidence tells us. As he knows, as do other transport spokespeople in this room, I've made sure that I'm going to share that evidence ahead of this meeting, so we'll be in the position that this Siambr will be able to talk about things that actually are important, that actually matter. Because then, hopefully, we'll come to some consensus. The M4 isn't straightforward. Let's be honest. The M4, as a road, was built as part of the infrastructure around Newport. So, it's not just about the M4—this is about intra-Newport issues as much as it is about the M4. That's what this Government is going to do. I look forward to debating that on 6 October when we can talk about evidence.

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Welsh Labour spokesperson, Shav Taj.

Shav Taj (Labour, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

Minister, data centres, I've written to you about them many a time, and, obviously, they're not new, but their use—principally because of AI and its expansion—is going to be important. There are critical challenges around that, potentially opportunities as well, in terms of jobs and growth and all the rest of it. To that end, it was really good to have a response from you. When I wrote to you, you responded about a new strategic policy framework for data centres in Wales. I think that's really critical, and of course it would be great to now, I guess, understand from you what the Government's intentions are on the basis of that framework. Will you commit that any framework will ensure positive community and environmental impact as being a guiding force? I'm sure that you would, hopefully, agree with me that we need to ensure that communities that have that infrastructure do then actually receive tangible local benefits through good jobs, good apprenticeships and genuine community wealth building.

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

I'm really grateful to the Member, not just for writing to me, as she's described, but also for raising this subject here in the Siambr, which gives me an opportunity to address some of the issues that are relevant to this area. As she's aware, we have commissioned work that is ongoing in this area. It's important to acknowledge that with the huge growth of data centres, related digital infrastructure and the wider context, of course, of AI, edge computing and related technologies, we do need to have a robust policy framework that is futureproofed and that also recognises the need to enable us to have the advantages that can flow from the investments that are happening in digital infrastructure across the world but to do so in a way that balances those with the legitimate concerns that people have at a community level and more broadly in terms of energy use, in terms of water, in terms of land use et cetera. So, we will be setting this out as soon as we can so that we can have that discussion across the Siambr and more widely across civil society in Wales.

Shav Taj (Labour, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

Thank you, Minister. Obviously, we can't have a thriving economy in Wales without stronger connections between jobs, opportunities and communities. That's why the UK Labour Government invested £14 billion in Welsh rail, and Cardiff parkway is a really important part of that strategy. My constituents in St Mellons know that the construction is going to take time, and they're going to need some reassurances about the direct benefit to the community, of course, but every day some of that news—. They're still waiting. So, can you now update us on when we will see the first shovel in the ground on Cardiff parkway, in my constituency of Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf?

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

I'm grateful to the Member for that question as well. We were wondering whether we could do a little bit of choreography. But I think that the key here, and obviously we're aware of that specific opportunity, is we're keen to see investment in our railway infrastructure the length and breadth of Wales, including in Cardiff. The one thing that we need, and maybe we can work together on this, is to turn that £14 billion promise that, you know—. The promise was very welcome, but what we need now is to turn that into an action plan with budgetary commitments and a timetable. And then we'll not only be able to deliver Cardiff parkway and wider investment across Cardiff and south-east Wales, but the length and breadth of Wales. So, let's work together on that.

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Welsh Conservative spokesperson, Janet Finch-Saunders.

Janet Finch-Saunders (Conservative, Bangor Conwy Môn)

Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. And pen-blwydd hapus, Cabinet Secretary. Minister, there is potentially a very expensive problem with the Global Centre of Rail Excellence. Now, my colleague Andrew R.T. Davies yesterday raised it, and I'm not sure that the answer that you gave yesterday actually addressed the very fundamental point of such an amount of wasted taxpayers' money. When the Welsh Government announced this scheme, the Global Centre of Rail Excellence—sounds good, doesn't it—it explicitly stated that Celtic Energy would gift all the land necessary for the project, yet the site was subsequently described as having been purchased by GCRE, and it was transferred before restoration of the former Nant Helen opencast mine had been completed. So, will you tell us today, plainly, was the land gifted or purchased? If it was purchased, how much did GCRE pay, and what restoration liabilities did the previous and now this current Welsh Government-owned company take on when it acquired the site? Most importantly, if the money available for restoration is not enough to finish the job, exactly who does pick up the bill, Celtic Energy or the Welsh taxpayer?

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

I'm grateful; thank you for your birthday wishes. In relation to the specifics on GCRE, there were some specific questions, and, if the Member is happy, I would prefer to take those back so we can ensure that, whatever information we can, we provide accurately, because I don't have all of that at my fingertips here.

But what I can say is that we as a Government reviewed the situation, we commissioned specialist advice in terms of where we are now, as the First Minister was saying, in terms of the opportunity. We've received that specialist advice, and we are now in the process of reviewing and discussing with other potential investors what the potential is. There is an incredibly important employment site here, and we're looking both at the Global Centre of Rail Excellence option, but looking at it in the round as well.

Janet Finch-Saunders (Conservative, Bangor Conwy Môn)

Diolch. I hope you can answer this one. Minister, the original plan was that £70 million of public money would help unlock around £330 million of private investment. For years, we were told there was serious private sector interest. GCRE talked about credible bidders and international interest, even from the middle east and America. And as recently as March last year, the First Minister at the time told this Senedd that GCRE was in detailed discussions with a potential funder, yet the private investment still hasn't materialised and the rail testing centre still hasn't been built.

So, what exactly went wrong? Was there ever an investor genuinely prepared to put up the money needed to build the project, and, if so, why did they walk away? Because, at this moment in time, it does look as though your Government has inherited a large hole in the ground, a project nobody is prepared to invest in, and, potentially, a very large bill for putting the site back as it was. How much more taxpayers' money are you prepared to put into this scheme? Diolch yn fawr.

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

Thank you for that further question in this area. There's not much, really, I can add usefully at this stage. I'm sure the Member will be mindful of the fact that we need to actually drill down into the detail, look at the potential interest that has been expressed by an investor, and then make a decision in the full possession of all of that information that delivers the best public value that we can, both in economic and employment terms, in a very, very important region of Wales, which is deserving of our support to the full extent that is possible. And once we have that information, we will make a decision and we will bring that decision, of course, back to the Siambr.

Beca Brown (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

3. What role will community energy projects play in Wales's transition to net zero? OQ64557

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

Our national energy strategy will recognise the vital role of community energy in achieving net zero. The Welsh public energy company will help unlock that ambition, scaling up the number of community energy projects, installing renewables and storage and using them to provide lower cost power and heat to people.

Beca Brown (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Thank you very much. It's excellent to hear that you share my view that community energy has a crucial role to play as we move towards our ambition of a net-zero Wales. Of course, at the heart of our principles as we develop community energy projects is that they align with local need, and it's important to ensure that the planning process reflects that. A perfect example of an industrial development that is contrary to our principles in my constituency is the Menai data centre scheme on the former Ferodo site near Caernarfon. It's a project that will swallow great amounts of energy and water, will have a damaging impact on wildlife and will cause sound and light pollution locally. But, more than anything, the huge scale of the project means that it will be sure to destroy our local landscapes and views, while offering very few local benefits. So, how can you ensure that the energy supply for data centres doesn't have a negative impact on the local area?

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

I'm grateful to the Member for that supplementary question. I think that you get to the core of the principles of our economic policy, namely that developments in terms of our economy or our energy system have to be planned for the benefit of the people of Wales. We have seen in our past as a nation, of course, the opposite of that happening, and developments taking place at the expense of local interests. We're not willing to see the same mistakes being made again. So, that's why we put an emphasis on community energy. We have made a commitment in terms of ensuring a minimum, at least, in terms of the local ownership of major projects, and in the particular context you referred to in terms of data centres, if I could echo what I said earlier, we as a Government will be bringing a policy framework forward that will address the quite understandable fears that exist across Wales where there are recommendations made in terms of data centres that don't give due consideration to the interests of local people or the local environment.

Iain McIntosh (Reform UK, Brycheiniog Tawe Nedd)

Cabinet Minister, there's a world of difference between genuine community energy and simply expecting rural communities to host enormous commercial energy developments. Across Wales, communities are being asked to accept industrial-scale windfarms, pylons and other infrastructure, while too often the electricity profits and the economic benefits flow elsewhere. So, if your Government wants at least 1.5 GW of renewable energy capacity to be locally owned by 2035, will you guarantee that community energy really means community ownership, community consent and tangible benefits for the people who live there, including lower energy costs, rather than simply imposing ever more large-scale development on rural Wales and calling a community benefit fund compensation? Diolch.

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

I'm grateful to the Member for his question. As I said a moment ago, I think that building, financing and facilitating community energy that is 100 per cent community owned is an important element of our policy. For larger schemes, we have said that we are committed to mandating a minimum level of community ownership of those schemes. I would say, more broadly, as well, a key principle of our national energy strategy will be taking an approach that I would characterise as more planned in relation to the spatial development of energy, rather than what we've had previously, which is, essentially, a market-led approach, which has led to concerns in communities, legitimate questions, like whether cumulative impact is properly being addressed. So, I think, by taking a planned approach, and getting the balance right between the necessity for decarbonising our energy system, recognising the range of technologies, including onshore renewables and their role in that, but giving confidence to communities as well that this is being done in a planned way, with them, and is not being imposed upon them with little benefit accruing to communities and to the people of Wales.

Paul Marr (Reform UK, Ceredigion Penfro)

4. What action is the Cabinet Minister taking to improve economic outcomes in Ceredigion Penfro? OQ64513

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

Improving economic outcomes in Ceredigion Penfro means backing local businesses, strengthening rural economies, and creating better paid jobs. We're delivering our commitment to support Welsh firms, align skills with employer needs, invest in infrastructure and procurement, and ensure communities across west Wales share in economic growth.

Paul Marr (Reform UK, Ceredigion Penfro)

Minister, thank you for your response. Yesterday, you told this Chamber that new defence-related investment decisions should, where possible, wait for your ethical defence investment framework. Yet Ceredigion Penfro should be benefiting directly from the £50 million defence growth deal, with Ministry of Defence Aberporth offering skilled jobs, investment and opportunities for local business. So, a simple question, Minister: are the defence growth deal and Aberporth both exempt from that pause? And if not, can you guarantee that not one job or contract, and not one pound of investment in Ceredigion Penfro will be lost or delayed as a result? West Wales needs certainty and investment now, not another framework standing in the way. Diolch.

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

I'm grateful to the Member for his question. I think I set it out clearly yesterday that we, obviously, are working at pace on the framework. The framework, actually, is a solid foundation for us to work with the sector in Wales, and we'll be working with companies in the sector as part of the process of developing it. Where there are decisions that—. We are trying—. Obviously, where it's possible to defer, partly out of respect for this Senedd, really—. But where it's not possible, in situations where decisions, for practical reasons, have to be made before the framework is finalised, we have allowed that exceptional flexibility, partly for the reasons that the Member describes, that we do not want to lose opportunities in cases that, actually, would be well within the framework. So, we have that flexibility, and I can assure him, as the economy Minister, I will be mindful of the need to use that flexibility where necessary.

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Question 5 [OQ64492] by Tom Montgomery has been withdrawn. Therefore, question 6—Anna Nicholl.

Anna Nicholl (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

6. How will the Cabinet Minister ensure that the benefits of the Welsh Government's new national energy strategy are retained within local communities? OQ64542

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

We are determined that the communities hosting energy developments are genuine beneficiaries. The national energy strategy will identify the clean energy that Wales needs and how more of this can be owned through minimum community ownership requirements and investment from the new Welsh public energy company.

Anna Nicholl (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Diolch. I welcome this Government's commitment to a renewable energy strategy that retains value in Welsh communities. The net-zero economy is already a significant and high-value component of the Welsh economy. There are particular opportunities in Ceredigion Penfro, with 1,600 jobs in the sector in Pembrokeshire alone already, and billions set to be invested in upcoming projects. This ranges from successful community-owned projects, such as Cwm Arian, to large-scale initiatives, like the Celtic Freeport.

Net zero is now an integral part of Welsh industry, and we've got huge potential to develop this further. The transition to net zero is a major economic opportunity, but I also welcome what the Minister has said here, that there needs to be a proper, planned strategy as to how we do this, both spatially and to balance the benefits for our economy, our communities and the environment. So, could the Cabinet Minister describe, as more energy infrastructure is developed in our rural communities, how Government will now ensure genuine benefit through local ownership jobs and skills and lower energy bills?

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

I'm really grateful for the question—part of an emerging theme this afternoon. It's such an important opportunity for us nationally and locally to make sure that we create an energy system where we benefit from the energy resources that we have. We can do that at different scales; we can do it through the Welsh public energy company at a larger scale, publicly owned, delivering benefit across the whole of Wales, for the people of Wales; we can do it through supporting community ownership, of which there are some good examples in the Member's constituency already. One of the reasons for doing that is precisely to get to grips with the energy costs problem that we face. Wales has some of the highest energy costs relatively compared to other parts of the UK. The UK has some of the highest energy costs in Europe. There's good evidence that community ownership actually is a means by which you can begin to deliver lower costs to households. And similarly, a publicly owned energy company, which is free not to follow the market price in energy, but to say, 'Let's actually engage in contracts with large-scale industrial users in Wales to create a Welsh energy advantage using our renewable energy resources, but for the benefit of our economy', that's precisely why we're creating a Welsh public energy company, and we're supporting public ownership and local ownership in a variety of ways at different scales.

David Mills (Reform UK, Brycheiniog Tawe Nedd)

I welcome the Welsh Government's guidance published in June on behind-the-meter energy systems, and I was pleased to see the Government recognising the potential for businesses to generate, use and sell locally produced energy. These are exactly the sorts of arrangements that can deliver real economic benefit to Welsh communities and ensure that solar panels are installed on industrial units rather than prime agricultural land.

I have heard from business owners who tell me that the financial return from exporting surplus electricity to the grid can be low, that it's so low that it simply does not provide enough incentive to install solar panels on large commercial or industrial buildings. Suppliers setting their own export tariffs turns this on its head. So, can the Minister outline what they are doing to actively promote private-wire and licence-exempt arrangements, allowing businesses to sell surplus power directly to neighbouring businesses at an agreed price?

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

I'm really grateful to the Member for his question. He's absolutely right: I think that private-wire, behind-the-meter opportunities are actually one of the ways in which we can do what I just described, really, which is to create that energy advantage, particularly in the context of businesses. Because it can be done, there is a means to do it, but we've got to get organised to see where we can build that out at scale to facilitate businesses, because if they can avoid the network costs—. Although there's been some movement from the UK Government on network costs to large industrial users, by and large, there's still a huge network cost element. If we can devise different ways, it could be on-site microgeneration in some circumstances; in larger scales, there could be local energy systems, which are behind the wire, which could actually provide low-cost energy for a wide range of businesses. There's some work we've got to do with some of the stakeholders in order to ensure that the arrangement that you just described in terms of connection, maybe with the grid, can be part of it. So, we're working on it. It's absolutely one of the areas where, if we work smart, we could build that Welsh energy advantage, which will be such a critical determinant of our economic success.

Catherine Cullen (Reform UK, Blaenau Gwent Caerffili Rhymni)

7. Will the Cabinet Minister provide an update on the performance of the Development Bank of Wales? OQ64545

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

The Development Bank of Wales continues to deliver finance and investment support to businesses across Wales. The bank has reported strong performance during the year and remains a key economic development partner. Its 2025-26 annual report will be published later this month, setting out its full performance and economic impact.

Catherine Cullen (Reform UK, Blaenau Gwent Caerffili Rhymni)

While of course I support ethical guidelines of conduct for the Development Bank of Wales, I worry about the politicisation of the bank and that investment decisions are based more off the whims of the Welsh Government rather than sensible financial criteria. For example, climate change is now a political priority that's been forced on the bank by the Government to meet mad net-zero targets. In the programme for government announced yesterday, we heard new economic criteria and possibly restrictions on defence investments for the bank. We have already had plenty of controversy with the bank in recent years, with concerns over political donations and alleged blacklisting of certain businesses. Can the Minister confirm whether the new defence ethical framework announced yesterday will apply to the Development Bank of Wales, and, if so, when? And will the Government publish a consolidated ethical and policy criteria that the development bank is expected to follow so that businesses and the Senedd can now understand how investment decisions are being made and scrutinise any further changes? Diolch.

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

I intend to issue the bank's remit letter in the coming weeks, which will set out clear priorities for the bank, supporting this Government's ambitions for investment, productivity and growth. That's a standard approach that every Government uses. There's nothing to see there. It's how every Government relates to arm's-length bodies, setting out the way in which the arm's-length body can deliver to the wider ambitions of the Government, particularly in the economic sphere.

Of course, we would expect the ethical framework that we are setting out in the defence sector to be cross-Government. It's there to govern the use of public money, including by the development bank, and it will also govern the development agency. Again, it's fairly normal. There are policies around fair work, for example. You would expect these to be reflected across the whole range of agencies.

I was at the launch of the development bank's Economic Intelligence Wales 'Productivity Heroes' report, and there's fantastic news here; let's remind ourselves of that. Over 1,700 high-growth firms are delivering higher productivity, higher employment and higher profits for those businesses so that they can continue to reinvest in their future trajectory of growth. I recognise scrutiny is an important part of our work here, but also let's not lose the opportunity to celebrate Welsh economic success. Because there are great things happening in Wales, and some of it is down to the work of the development bank.

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Thank you. The final question to you, Minister. Question 8—Elfed Williams.

Elfed Williams (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

8. What action is the Welsh Government taking to maximise the local economic opportunities arising from the Gwyndod project in Bangor Conwy Môn? OQ64550

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

The Welsh Government is working closely with Great British Energy—Nuclear and Rolls-Royce SMR to maximise local benefits from Gwyndod. We are helping Welsh businesses to access supply chain opportunities and working with education partners to enable local people to develop the required skills that will be required for the project.

Elfed Williams (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

I thank the Cabinet Minister for that response. On my visit to the Gwyndod site last week, it was clear that this is not only an opportunity to secure energy for decades, but also a once-in-a-generation opportunity for the economy of Ynys Môn and north-west Wales. If we want local people to truly benefit, we need to start to prepare now. That means working with local colleges to ensure that apprenticeships and the required skills are in place, and, importantly, that they have the funding to deliver those. It also means giving fair opportunities to local businesses to get work through the supply chain. Will the Minister therefore commit to ensuring that jobs, skills and local businesses will be at the heart of the Welsh Government's strategy for Gwyndod? Thank you.

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

Certainly, this is a golden opportunity in terms of the economy of the whole of Wales, and also regionally and locally. We want to maximise the benefits of that opportunity across the range of dimensions in terms of skills. The Learning and Work Institute has been commissioned to carry out a skills review for Wales. In this context, Great British Energy—Nuclear has been invited to contribute to the call for evidence, so that the needs of the specific workforce for Gwyndod can be at the heart of the strategy that will emerge. The nuclear skills centre and a working group has been drawn together to bring together industry, the Welsh Government, local government and community representatives around a co-ordinated approach, to ensure that we have the system that we need in place to ensure that local people can derive the maximum benefit from the opportunities available.

In terms of the supply chain for local businesses, Welsh Government officials will be playing a central role in the Gwyndod suppliers event—and I'm pleased to publicise this more widely—that will be held over two days in Coleg Menai in Llangefni, on 22 and 23 October, alongside GBE-N and Rolls-Royce SMR. So, there is a great deal of work being done, but that's an overview of what's possible. It's another example, because the decision has already been made, of Wales's importance not just in terms of renewable energy—there are many opportunities in that regard in north Wales—but that we are also there at the beginning of this new technology of SMRs in the United Kingdom, and Wales is in a very good position to benefit economically from these for generations to come.

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Thank you very much, Ministers.

2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Education and Welsh Language

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

We will now move on to item 2, questions to the Cabinet Minister for Education and the Welsh Language. The first question is from Becca Martin.

Becca Martin (Plaid Cymru, Clwyd)

1. Will the Cabinet Minister ensure that adults who wish to learn Welsh have access to more opportunities to develop their language skills? OQ64524

Cefin Campbell (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

Thank you very much for the question. The good news is that more people are learning Welsh than ever before, and it's wonderful to see interest growing amongst people of all ages and of all backgrounds. The Welsh Government is investing over £18 million in the National Centre for Learning Welsh this year to create opportunities for adults and young people to learn Welsh. The centre provides online provision, face-to-face provision and hybrid provision across all levels to its learners.

Becca Martin (Plaid Cymru, Clwyd)

Diolch. It's widely accepted that one of the most effective ways for a child to learn the Welsh language, or any language, is through immersion. Simply put, the more Welsh a child hears and uses, the more likely they are to develop the language effectively. The trochi method, or immersion, can also foster a deeper understanding of, and a connection to, Welsh culture and history. However, for too many children, this immersion stops at the school gates. Many children come from English-speaking homes, which is the case in my home, and may have limited opportunities to hear or use Welsh within their wider communities. This is particularly prevalent in north-east Wales, where I am an elected representative. I'm regularly told that the issue is not a lack of desire to learn Welsh, but a lack of opportunities for adults to develop their language skills to a conversational standard. Will the Minister work with partner organisations and external agencies to provide additional opportunities for adult learners to use the language they have, helping to create stronger Welsh-speaking communities and in turn support the next generation of Welsh speakers?

Cefin Campbell (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

Diolch yn fawr iawn. Thank you very much indeed. Immersion teaching has been with us in Wales for many years, and it's the proven way of ensuring that children acquire the Welsh language, the target language, in the most effective way possible. This was based on work that was done in Canada, where they have immersion programmes. We know that children from non-Welsh-speaking backgrounds acquire the Welsh language fluently through immersion schools. But what we need as well is support for the parents, like yourself, who are learning with their children. I know the national language centre does provide funding and support for parents through various programmes, so that they can learn with their children at the pace their children are developing.

This is equally important in terms of helping parents to help their children with homework, which is one of the barriers that many parents have about putting their children into Welsh-medium schools: 'How can I help with homework?' I can provide many answers to that. First, it's not their parents' homework anyway, but I could go on and on. But where they feel that they can help, learning Welsh is important and helps develop a bond between parents and their children through that second language. I think that sends a positive signal to families about the importance of bilingualism and living in a bilingual Wales.

Sarah Edwards (Reform UK, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

As a Welsh language learner, I'm delighted to have the opportunity to learn Welsh in the Senedd.

Sarah Edwards (Reform UK, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

I'm Sarah Edwards, and I'm learning Welsh.

Sarah Edwards (Reform UK, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

Can the Cabinet Minister comment on what provisions are being set out by the Welsh Government to upgrade Welsh language learning facilities in my own constituency of rural Carmarthenshire? Diolch.

Cefin Campbell (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

Congratulations for learning Welsh. You live, like I do, in a county where the Welsh language is an important part of the community.

Cefin Campbell (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

Carmarthenshire, which we share in terms of our constituency, is a predominantly Welsh-speaking area, and it is great that people like you are learning the language. The national centre that I referred to earlier on provides funding, and the Welsh Government gives them £18 million to provide funding for courses that are tailored to the needs of people, whether that is in the community, in the Senedd, in workplaces, and online as well. As a former Welsh language tutor myself, I know how important it is for those courses to be available in workplaces in particular, but also in the community.

The joy of the workplace is that a place like the Senedd does give you opportunities not only to learn the language, but to use the language as well, as you have effectively done this afternoon. I would encourage all Members and all staff members in the Senedd, and other workplaces across Wales, to learn the language and be supported in a sensitive and effective way by those of us who are Welsh speakers by engaging with you and practising the language with you. Because learning Welsh is a virtuous cycle in many different ways. It's to do with confidence, it's to do with opportunity and it's to do with developing skills. That cycle needs to be continued and developed until you become fluent to use the language in all kinds of different ways in life. Da iawn.

Paul Davies (Conservative, Ceredigion Penfro)

2. What are the Welsh Government's priorities for schools in Pembrokeshire for the next 12 months? OQ64510

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

Thank you very much for that question.

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

Our priority is to raise standards for every child, wherever in Wales they go to school. We want to see sustained improvement in literacy and numeracy, more children and young people making good progress from where they start, and more school leavers earning useful qualifications ready for further study, training or work.

Paul Davies (Conservative, Ceredigion Penfro)

Thank you for that response, Cabinet Minister. There are some serious concerns regarding the future of faith education in our schools in Pembrokeshire, following a number of controversial decisions that have been taken by Pembrokeshire County Council in recent months. As you may be aware, the council decided in May to remove the voluntary controlled status of Ysgol Cilgerran Church in Wales school. This was followed in June by a decision to close Manorbier Church in Wales VC School, while proposals are also being considered to discontinue Tenby Church in Wales VC Primary School.

These decisions have raised some serious concerns amongst parents, governors, church representatives and local communities about the long-term future of faith-based education in Pembrokeshire. So, Cabinet Minister, do you agree with me that no faith school should be lost or lose its status against the will of its school community? And can you tell us what action the Welsh Government is willing to take to support schools that wish to retain their faith status in Pembrokeshire and, indeed, across the whole of Wales?

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

Thank you very much for that question.

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

I'm aware obviously of the plans that he raises with me in terms of school organisation proposals from Pembrokeshire County Council. He has been here far longer than I have and will be equally aware that I am unable to comment on the merits or otherwise of any local authority proposals, which may later be referred to Ministers for determination.

Claire Archibald (Reform UK, Ceredigion Penfro)

I'd just like to say 'thank you' to my constituency Member, because it is something that is very close to my heart—church schools. So, I just wanted to get that out there.

Policies promoting inclusive physical activity are welcome and many disabled pupils and their families continue to report barriers to meaningful participation in school sports, such as wheelchair-bound children being made to take timings for their peers rather than actively taking part. Can you therefore outline what specific measures the Welsh Government is taking to monitor participation rates amongst disabled learners, how it evaluates whether policies are translating into outcomes on the ground and whether it will commit to publishing data, so that Members can assess if disabled pupils are participating in curriculum-based sport at the same rate as their non-disabled peers? Diolch.

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

Diolch. Thank you. And I too want to see all pupils in Wales being able to engage in all aspects of the curriculum, including, obviously, sport and physical activity. We know how important that is for their development, for their health, for their inclusion in school and in society, and I think I've referred in previous answers to our focus on that inclusion. We want our system and access to curriculum to be available for all our learners. I don't have to hand the numbers that she asks for, but I can look into that and share that with her. But I can assure her that all pupils will be a focus of all our work in terms of education standards and the accessibility of the curriculum for learners across Wales.

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

I now call on the party spokespeople to question the Cabinet Minister. Reform UK spokesperson, Stephen Senior.

Stephen Senior (Reform UK, Sir Fynwy Torfaen)

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Cabinet Minister, let's just have a little look back over 20 years of the Programme for International Student Assessment in Wales. Back in 2006, Jane Hutt:

'we can learn from the best and most effective practice'.

We move on to Leighton Andrews, who, to his credit, had a bit of a crack at this, quite forthright. He talked about 'systemic failure'. A few more years to Huw Lewis—'no quick fixes'. Kirsty Williams, who was in post for quite a while:

'it will take time for Welsh education reforms to be reflected in PISA results'.

Well, a Liberal did get one prediction correct there. Jeremy Miles:

'a renewed national focus on reading, numeracy and science'.

And then, obviously, a few years later, yourself:

'not where we want them'.

I should say, during that period, I actually was partly responsible for administering PISA in a couple of schools in Wales, so I know a little bit about it. It's a grim tale, Minister. It feels like groundhog day for the younger Members. Perhaps that's a film well worth watching. We feel stuck in a loop. My question is: why should we think that this Welsh Government's announcements will make any difference?

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

Thank you for the gallop through PISA in Wales that I think most of us are familiar with and has got us to a place where we don't want to be. What is different about this plan is its focus on nought to 16 as the first element in that. We recognise that the very earliest years have an impact on learners' development in schools. We're tying it in very firmly with all the interventions that we are making in that space, in order that we can apply the support for those learners and for staff that is appropriate. I'm also—and this too is new—looking at a baseline for entry into schools, a year 6 indicator, which I and others will be able to be held to account for the trajectory we are making in literacy and numeracy, and we also want to see improvements in qualifications outcomes at 16.

What I am keen to do is to make live in our schools system the ability to demonstrate what we are doing, what you can hold me to account on, and the clarity that we give school staff about those expectations. The plan will be published in detail for consultation, in terms of what those expectations look like, very soon. And we will be able to see, on literacy and numeracy specifically, in which direction we are going, and that is different from the responses in the past.

Stephen Senior (Reform UK, Sir Fynwy Torfaen)

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. I hear what you're saying, but there's nothing new in baseline assessment. Perhaps it'll be different from what we've had previously. [Interruption.] Yes. I mean, we can go back to 1998, and there was the literacy and numeracy framework, which never got adopted—didn't see its way through devolution.

Putting that to one side, I'm going to talk about the Curriculum for Wales, because the Curriculum for Wales will be cited as having the potential to improve pupil outcomes. But last week, the Scottish Government announced its largest ever review of the curriculum up there in over 15 years, because of their poor PISA results. And unfortunately, for those who don't know, the Curriculum for Wales was largely based, not exclusively, but largely based on their Curriculum for Excellence in Scotland, as it was called. Its DNA runs right through our curriculum here. I describe it as the mashed potato of the curriculum—it's bland and of little nutritious value.

Minister, since we've not yet seen the impact of the new curriculum on PISA results, and Scotland has, my fear is that matters are going to get worse, and potentially a lot worse. Will you follow the lead of Scotland and announce your own review of the Welsh school curriculum?

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

I think, to go back to your first point, on the literacy and numeracy framework, one was introduced in Wales, but the sustained focus on it was not maintained. And I said last week that one of the factors that does make a difference in jurisdictions across the world is that sustained focus, which is what we are offering.

On Curriculum for Wales, you are right that there are similarities in the way these have evolved, but while we might learn from Scotland in some respects, you will find that a lot of the emerging research now suggests that they might very well learn from us too.

I have announced that I will begin a targeted review of the curriculum, in order that we have greater clarity around expectations regarding the content of that curriculum. I don't want to start again, because 15 years of further reform would not be helpful, and the curriculum is being applied well in very many schools—I have seen that. So, there will be a review; I will come back and explain how that will work and the timeline for it. There is a need for a review, but I think that we are not in the same place as Scotland, and that lessons work both ways.

Stephen Senior (Reform UK, Sir Fynwy Torfaen)

Okay. Finally, you touched on qualifications at 16—I'm just going to touch on those at 18. There are those who believe that PISA results are stand-alone and don't contribute to anything in particular, because we've got GCSE and A-level results. Let's just look at A-level results, because you can't really compare them to England any longer, because both GCSEs and A-levels, whilst they're branded the same, have not got the same structure, and have not necessarily got the same gradings either.

But we do have comparative data for university entry, and I'm just going to focus on Cambridge University. This is not the complete picture, but when we look at some of the data published by Cambridge University, going back over a decade, a few things come to light. During the last three years, there were 325 applicants from Wales to Cambridge, and 21 per cent of those were ultimately successful. If we roll back a decade, we're at 260 applicants, so fewer applicants, but 30 per cent were successful. And I should point out the success rate for Scotland last year was just 12 per cent, and that's a real worry, because we've adopted that curriculum. It's the trend that matters—there are more applying, but fewer are successful.

My question to you, Minister, is: would you commission—because I've only had a snapshot there—some independent research to see whether fewer students from Wales are successful in their applications to the competitive universities and the competitive courses?

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

There are two points there to take up, I think. Looking at the trajectory and progression of students into post-18 and post-16 education is part, I think, of my colleague's review, and that will feature in that regard.

I think, on GCSEs and A-levels, it is important to remember that none of the pupils, the learners, who have done Curriculum for Wales have yet gone through these qualifications. So, drawing lessons about Curriculum for Wales with these particular cohorts may not be as helpful as we need at this point.

I think, also, it's important to remember that the consistency of testing—. PISA is one test and it tells us valuable things, and I want to draw on the detail and the granular detail of what that tells us, particularly how good we are at stretching our most able learners. I want to look at that and feed that knowledge and information into our plan. What is also clear, though, is that it doesn't measure everything. GCSEs measure something slightly different. A-levels, in which we perform, actually, very well, measure something else. So, I think it is important and is a responsibility to think of all these results in the round, while also being clear about what our expectations are, particularly around foundational skills, which is what our plan is about.

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Welsh Labour spokesperson, Lynne Neagle.

Lynne Neagle (Labour, Sir Fynwy Torfaen)

Diolch. If I could start by respectfully saying to the Cabinet Minister that the work on age-related expectations and, indeed, a lot of what's in the literacy and numeracy plan was begun under the previous Government and therefore is a continuation of that work. But what I wanted to ask about today was school support staff. And I know you understand how vital school support staff are, and, indeed, I think they are the glue that holds the schools together. But on too many occasions, we know that school support staff are asked to help with complex medical issues in schools, including things like attending to catheters and feeding lines.

I know that guidance is being developed on supporting learners with healthcare needs, but there is a lack of clarity on when that guidance will be published. Again, I know that this is a challenging area, because it involves the interface between health and education. But it is crucial that we get that guidance in place, so that children with complex health needs don't face barriers in school, and so that school support staff aren't asked to do tasks that they're either not trained for—

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Can we have a question, Lynne?

Lynne Neagle (Labour, Sir Fynwy Torfaen)

—or certainly not remunerated for. When can we expect that guidance to be available?

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

On one thing I do agree with you: the support staff in our schools do an enormously positive and important job. And any teacher and, indeed, any learner you talk to will attest to that.

She's also quite right that these are issues that need to be considered across portfolios. Health in particular and arguably, also, preventative health are going to be key partners in deciding how the education system and how we support support staff, but, more crucially also, the learners, in this work. I can't give her a timeline at this point, but I can assure her that, in pursuit of the breaking down of silos that I think every Minister on this bench has mentioned over the past few weeks, that is one of the very clear areas of focus that we have. Because, again, to go back to an associated point to yours, making sure that all our learners are able to make the best progress that they can, and that they are well supported whatever their needs are, is a priority for us.

Lynne Neagle (Labour, Sir Fynwy Torfaen)

Thank you. You may be aware that a safeguarding letter was issued by Estyn to Ysgol Heol Goffa special school in Llanelli following the inspection last year, and that that was around issues around healthcare support in school. Now, a letter that the Cabinet Minister for health sent to one of the people who made representations about the school indicated that the guidance would be published some time in 2027, whereas your last written answer to me said that

'this work is at an early stage and...we are not yet in a position to confirm a timescale for the publication of revised guidance.'

So, there is a difference there between what two Ministers have said. Now, I entirely agree with you about the dangers of silos. And I wonder whether you would agree with me that this is not just a matter for local authorities and health boards, and that if this work is to be done, it has to be driven at Government level by the Cabinet Ministers responsible, in both health and education. What assurance can you give that you will be working closely with the health Minister's team to make sure that that interface between health and education, when it comes to children's education, is absolutely seamless?

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

Yes, that is an assurance I can absolutely give her. Thank you.

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

The Welsh Conservatives' spokesperson, Sam Rowlands.

Sam Rowlands (Conservative, Fflint Wrecsam)

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Cabinet Minister, what is your view on the impact of school closures on communities, parents, teachers and learners across Wales?

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

Thank you for the question. I'm afraid I have to refer you to the previous answer that I gave to your colleague, in that, obviously, these are decisions for local authorities. There are clear codes that govern the process that need to be followed in order to look at school organisation, and, particularly in relation to smaller schools, you will see a commitment in our manifesto to make sure that those codes are well applied. But I cannot, as Minister, comment on any particular plans in any local authority in Wales, as I am conscious that some of these decisions may at some point be referred to Welsh Ministers.

Sam Rowlands (Conservative, Fflint Wrecsam)

Thank you, Cabinet Minister. I appreciate the position you take on that, but, as you point out, on the process, it's important throughout that this is being adhered to properly, because communities are concerned when school closures and mergers are threatened for schools in their areas. You'll be aware, in my own constituency, that Flintshire council has proposed the merger of four schools into one superschool, with communities at the periphery of that, such as in Saltney, with St Anthony's school, and in Mold, with St David's school—where my colleague Darren Millar is the Member for—particularly concerned about the impact from the distance of the site that's being proposed.

The point here, Cabinet Minister, is that the consultation for the proposal has been rejected by more than 96 per cent of respondents. Schools are at the heart of our communities, and their closures have a particularly stark impact on rural areas, where schools serve as important community buildings and set habits of a lifetime for travel to and from school. Councils should not be imposing school closures on communities that do not want them. Instead, closures should only be considered where there's significant evidence, considerable public support and action to mitigate impacts on those communities. So, within the powers that you do have, Cabinet Minister, will you commit today to supporting parents, teachers and learners in disputes over school closures?

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

Thank you. I can't commit to that, for the reasons that I mentioned earlier on. But I think your question does illustrate the importance of schools in our communities, and I wouldn't dispute that for a second. They are key institutions in all our communities. We all have a vested interest in their success and in the success of the learners who are in those schools. So, while, obviously, for your constituents this will be an issue that they will want to pursue with you and with others, I will leave it there.

Anthony Slaughter (Green, Caerdydd Penarth)

3. What is the Welsh Government doing to ensure that young people in Caerdydd Penarth have equal access to Welsh-medium high school education? OQ64509

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

Diolch. Cardiff Council is implementing its Welsh in education strategic plan to ensure sufficient Welsh-medium secondary education in all areas of Cardiff. I understand that the council is currently developing strategic, long-term options for Welsh-medium secondary school provision, and we should await the outcomes of that work.

Anthony Slaughter (Green, Caerdydd Penarth)

Thank you. Diolch. I know a family in Butetown whose daughter must leave the house by 7.30 a.m. every morning to get to Glantaf high school in time for registration—just one of many young people and their families whose decision to continue Welsh-language education wasn't and isn't straightforward. Travelling through an already broken transport system from one side of the city to another is not sustainable. It is expensive and difficult for parents, and stressful for vulnerable 11-year-olds starting high school. Many who want to stay for after-school clubs can't due to the lack of safe transport options home. The lack of access to Welsh-medium education for Grangetown, Butetown and the surrounding areas disproportionately impacts those on the doorstep of this very Siambr. I stand with the campaigners who call this a social injustice. It is structural discrimination against the most multicultural communities in our city. The public sector has a duty under the Equality Act 2010 to address the imbalance, irrespective of any discussions as to the viability of Callaghan Square—

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Sorry, Anthony, can we come to a question?

Anthony Slaughter (Green, Caerdydd Penarth)

—as a potential site. I'm aware, Minister, that you have previously expressed support for a fourth Welsh-medium secondary school in the city. While acknowledging Cardiff Council's ongoing role, what assurances can the Minister give to local families in south Cardiff of the Welsh Government's commitment to securing a Welsh-medium secondary school in de Caerdydd? Diolch.

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

Diolch yn fawr. The Welsh Government's commitment to developing Welsh language schools and opportunities for learners across Wales is clear. It is expressed, again, in our manifesto. We are consulting very soon in this autumn term on the broader strategy around Welsh and the implementation of the Welsh language and education Act—Deddf y Gymraeg ac Addysg (Cymru) 2025. I may not have translated that wholly accurately. That is a focus for our work as a Government, and I would invite him to look in detail at that consultation when it is issued. Additionally, we have just conducted a rapid review of the Welsh in education strategic plans that all local authorities are required to develop to demonstrate how they propose to develop these options for all learners in Cardiff and elsewhere.

Joe Martin (Reform UK, Caerdydd Penarth)

Minister, it's vitally important that Wales's unique culture is not only preserved but nurtured. Access to Welsh-medium education for those who want it will be an important part of that process. More than that, bilingualism is literally good for the brain. It leads to better executive function, better memory, problem solving, and even delays dementia onset by an average of around five years. Of course, Wales isn't the only country that recognises the importance of language in the transmission of culture. There are examples that we can learn from from across the globe. I'd be interested to know if the Welsh Government has learned or is trying to learn anything from Catalonia and the Basque region in successfully promoting bilingualism.

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

Thank you. I know my predecessors and I are very keen to learn from examples of successful bilingual countries and cultures across the world. It always strikes me as interesting that we consider this in some way unusual. In most places in the world, bilingualism is an accepted part of life—it's just the way things are. Learning from those countries, learning from those jurisdictions, has always, I think, been important to this Government and the previous one. Certainly, I can commit to continuing that interest in the way things are done elsewhere and to learn appropriately from that.

Huw Thomas (Labour, Caerdydd Penarth)

The Member mentioned the Basque Country. May I refer the Minister to ysgol Groes-wen, also in Caerdydd Penarth, which is an innovative example here in Wales, on a model that has been adopted from education plans in the Basque Country and which is developing bilingualism through having two streams, Welsh and English? I want to recognise the Minister's support locally for a fourth Welsh-medium secondary school in south Cardiff. I also appreciate the personal conflict that exists in her role as a Minister.

But, having said that, can I just raise once again this issue of site? She will know in her role as the Minister the practical challenges in ensuring a fourth secondary school, in terms of the growth in numbers and the sustainability of other schools in Cardiff. But that aspiration exists in the council and in this Chamber, I believe, to see a fourth secondary school to respond to some of the concerns that have been raised on easy access across the city to Welsh-medium education. So, whilst the council proceeds with the preparatory work in terms of a business plan, I have written on the issue of the site at Callaghan Square. Cardiff south has developed a great deal and there are not many sites—

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Huw, can you move to a question, please?

Huw Thomas (Labour, Caerdydd Penarth)

Elin Jones has just left the Chamber, unfortunately. Will you work with the Minister for finance to take that site off the market, as it belongs to the Welsh Government, so that the option exists and we can unlock a new secondary school in south Cardiff?

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

Thank you very much. Thank you also for recognising that this situation can be quite complex for someone like me, who also, of course, lives in Grangetown. However, having said that, I'm aware, I think, that the Member wrote to the Minister for finance, and I am confident that she will respond shortly. I would like to note on this point that we haven't received any correspondence officially from Cardiff Council on this issue, and perhaps that would be something to look at.

But to return to my previous answer, developing Welsh-medium education in every local authority in Wales, increasing the number of pupils who can have easy access to Welsh-medium education, and that learners in our system, whatever school they attended, can leave the school aged 16 as confident, proficient Welsh speakers are central to this Government's vision for the Welsh language. There will be very extensive consultation on the variety of ways in which we will be moving in that direction through the period of this Government term.

Kiera Marshall (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

Everybody should have access to Welsh-medium education. Sadly, I missed out on this when I was growing up and I'm now having to learn as an adult. At the moment, our constituency of Caerdydd Penarth is only served by one Welsh-medium secondary school. We know that communities in the south of Cardiff are travelling further to access Welsh-medium education, which is disincentivising parents and guardians from sending their children to Welsh-medium education. I am mindful, though, that responsibility for the planning of local schools does rest with local authorities and that statutory procedures have to be followed. So, I was wondering if the Cabinet Minister could confirm what communication she's had with Cardiff Council in relation to this matter.

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

Specifically—I think I mentioned this in my earlier answer—on the location, I haven't. But, of course, alongside what is happening is that we are looking at the Welsh in education strategic plans, and these have now been submitted, the review has concluded, and we will be communicating with all local authorities in October to discuss the progress that has been made and the national picture that we can glean from those plans aligned, then, with the priority we as a Government give to developing Welsh language education. Diolch yn fawr.

Jason O'Connell (Reform UK, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

4. What is the Welsh Government doing to improve educational standards in Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr? OQ64522

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

Diolch. Improving educational standards for learners in Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr, and indeed in every community across Wales, is a core mission of this Government. Last week, I published the foundational literacy and numeracy plan, which represents an important first step in our vision for an education system that works for all learners and supports key partners to succeed.

Jason O'Connell (Reform UK, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

Thank you, Cabinet Minister. We can't ignore the clear link between social deprivation, child poverty and educational attainment, which I think are all areas that successive Governments have failed to address. The latest PISA results should be a wake-up call for this Government. Wales is bottom of the UK in maths, reading and science. Maths has fallen significantly, and your own Government acknowledges that Wales has constantly lagged behind other UK nations. But nowhere should that failure concern us more than in communities such as the one I represent in Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr. Your own deprivation figures show that 83 per cent of areas in Merthyr Tydfil are among the most educationally deprived areas of Wales. So, Cabinet Minister, those statistics aren't just something to read on a Government spreadsheet; they represent children whose future opportunities depend upon the education they receive today.

Now, I appreciate the PISA records aren't yours to own, as they're based on 2025 results, and Labour spent years reforming the curriculum, changing qualifications and moving away. However, it's not lost on anyone on this side of the Chamber that Plaid Cymru supported that, so you can no longer blame the system you inherited. So, the question is: do you commit to working across Government departments to ensure that socially deprived areas in Wales are prioritised to make sure that we close the gap between those and any educational achievements for PISA? Thank you.

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

Diolch yn fawr. Spending time litigating previous Governments' records is not how I intend to use my time, because I want to move forward from here, so I have no intention of starting today. I think you will see a commitment across this Government particularly to tackle the impact of poverty on children across Wales, both in schools and more broadly in our society. That's why the childcare offer, for example, is such a focus for us. You will see, in each of our portfolios, I think, a strategic commitment to tackling the impact of poverty in Wales on children and on societies and on families across our country, including in your constituency.

You will see also, in the foundational literacy and numeracy plan that I published last week, that there is in that explicitly a commitment to looking at our success in delivering this plan in terms of how well we are getting to grips with those gaps, because some of these statistics are alarmingly and stubbornly high and have been for a very long time. And I hope you will have heard, over the past few weeks, how important that is, in all its complexity, for all of us.

Lis McLean (Plaid Cymru, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

Welsh-medium education succeeds when every child learns in the way that's appropriate to them as individuals, of course. I have a grandson who's living with autism. He's in a Welsh-medium school and he's getting excellent support, I have to say—it's excellent and I'm very grateful for that. Unfortunately, not every family is in that same situation, because this isn't true across other areas in Wales. Having additional learning needs shouldn't mean that learners have to give up their right to Welsh-medium education. Every child and young person, whatever their needs, should be able to access the support and provision that they need through the medium of Welsh. So, will the Cabinet Minister provide an update on the Welsh Government's plans to ensure that additional learning needs provision through the medium of Welsh is just as accessible, inclusive and effective as the provision through the medium of English?

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

Thank you very much. I think we've heard in the past weeks from some of our colleagues as well about the personal impact that some of these difficult decisions have had when suitable support hasn't been available for ALN through the medium of Welsh, and for learners in Welsh-medium schools as well. We have looked at this in detail, in particular at that provision from the perspective of students in Welsh-medium schools, and certainly it is a priority for us. I can send you some more details about the timetable, perhaps, outside of this meeting this afternoon, but I want to assure you that we do realise that this is a particular problem and that supporting families who would like to have Welsh-medium education for their children and get that support that they need is certainly something that we would judge our success on over the period of this Government.

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Thank you. I'm highly aware of time and I would like to get at least halfway through the questions. So, I won't be able to call any additional contributions from here on in, unfortunately. We'll move to question 5—Andrew R.T. Davies.

Andrew RT Davies (Conservative, Pen-y-bont Bro Morgannwg)

5. What action is the Cabinet Minister taking to support school budgets in Pen-y-bont Bro Morgannwg? OQ64533

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

Decisions on the level of funding available to schools are made by each local authority as part of their overall budget setting. I'm committed to working collaboratively with local authorities to consider how education funding is used most effectively.

Andrew RT Davies (Conservative, Pen-y-bont Bro Morgannwg)

Minister, what are your asks of the finance Minister in supporting your portfolio? Many schools in Pen-y-bont Bro Morgannwg are in a deficit situation and are looking to you as a new Minister to secure additional funding in the current budget settlement round. So, could you identify, given your experience in the education sector, especially as a former representative of the National Association of Head Teachers, what your asks are of the finance Minister, so that headteachers can have confidence that they will see more resource in the new financial year?

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

Diolch. I can assure him certainly that education is a priority for the entire Government, and that I, as an advocate for support for it in all aspects, will be delivering with determination. I think it is important to note the funding settlements that are in place at the moment. He may remember, in the last budget negotiations, that an additional £112.8 million was sourced for local government, which resulted in £6.56 billion in core funding for local authorities, and that is an increase of 4.5 per cent.

I know that there are issues around funding in education and in our schools. I am determined to work with all partners to try and resolve some of the more outstanding issues, and assure him that the Vale of Glamorgan and all the other 21 authorities will be in my mind as I do that, because, as I said, we recognise the importance of education, and success in delivering for our learners is a key measure of our success as a Government.

Vikki Howells (Labour, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

6. How does the Welsh Government support adult learners in Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr? OQ64486

Cefin Campbell (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

Thank you for the question.

Cefin Campbell (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

Welsh Government supports adult learners across Wales through investment in further education, community learning, personal learning accounts, employability programmes and essential skills provision. Working with local providers, including Coleg y Cymoedd and Merthyr college in your constituency, we are helping adults to gain skills, progress in work and access lifelong learning opportunities.

Vikki Howells (Labour, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

Well, Deputy Minister, it is, of course, Adult Learners Week this week, and I was really grateful to the adult learners who met me in Coleg y Cymoedd in Aberdare on Monday, who spoke about their experiences of re-entering education.

We know that there's considerable demand for adult education, but figures that I've seen from Adult Learning Wales suggest that demand in 2026-27 outstrips their funding by almost 10 percent, and that means that around 850 potential learners are missing out. I'm told by Adult Learning Wales that they could put additional funding to use immediately, upskilling workers and allowing for more flexible delivery. So, how is Welsh Government making meeting this demand a priority?

Cefin Campbell (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

Well, again, you make a really important point. Let me just agree with you that, with adult learning, the benefits are so wide-ranging. It supports the development of skills, improves health and well-being and is a catalyst for social engagement and integration. It also shows that well-paid work, through developing skills, is the best route out of poverty, and helping people to gain the skills they need to thrive and work is a clear priority for this Welsh Government. And I'm looking forward to the awards ceremony this evening as well, the Inspire! adult learning awards. It is, for me—and I've been to many over recent years—one of the highlights of the year, when you see the outstanding achievements of learners whose passion, commitment and dedication I think demonstrates the transformative power of lifelong learning.

But, to answer your question briefly, we are keeping a very close watch on the increased enrolments in FE colleges in particular. We know that that creates funding pressures for FE colleges. And I'm aware that Medr have given £6.25 million in this financial year, which straddles half the academic year, to help FE colleges, but we are monitoring the situation with Medr, and, if funding allows, we will try and support the FE sector but also adult learning in general as best as we can.

Nick Carter (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

7. What progress has the Welsh Government made on surveying the condition of school estates across Wales? OQ64531

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

We are committed to improving the condition of the school estate in Wales so that every learner is educated in a safe, sustainable and high-quality environment. To do this, the Welsh Government works in partnership with local authorities, who are responsible for school repairs and maintenance. Condition surveys are used to identify schools in need of the most urgent repairs and upgrades, and we are committed to working with colleagues to ensure the most effective use of resources.

Nick Carter (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

A high number of schools across my constituency of Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf are facing a maintenance backlog. Scaffolding has surrounded Roath Park primary since 2021, Marlborough Road primary since 2022 and Albany primary since 2023. The condition of a number of comprehensives is substandard and very close to being further downgraded, including the second-hand Welsh-medium comprehensives ysgol Bro Edern and ysgol Plasmawr.

Most worryingly, parents at Albany Primary School were advised the week before this term started that their children would be sent out to three different schools because of dry rot. This late notice was despite Estyn warning in October 2025 that the site management arrangements at Albany Primary School, and I quote,

'give cause for concern and have been brought to the attention of the local authority.'

What discussions has the Cabinet Minister had with Cardiff Council regarding the condition of their school estate, and the council's response to Estyn in particular, and whether earlier intervention could have avoided Albany primary's closure and the severe disruption caused to pupils' education?

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

Thank you. The Welsh Government only holds very high-level information on school conditions, so I think this is an issue that will need to be pursued with the local authority. But I will say that we did commit to conducting that survey of school buildings, and that work is continuing now, to recognise the fact that we know that there is a significant issue across Wales with school buildings. We are going to prioritise those that are categorised as C and D, which are the buildings that are in the worst conditions according to what we currently hold in terms of data. I think, more broadly, a focus on this to ensure that our school buildings really are appropriate for our learners and the opportunities we want to give them is what sits behind making that priority a manifesto commitment.

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Thank you. And the final question to you, Minister, question 8—Francesca O'Brien.

Francesca O'Brien (Reform UK, Gŵyr Abertawe)

8. How is the Welsh Government working with local councils to ensure adequate funding for education? OQ64517

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

We recognise that schools and local authorities continue to face a range of financial pressures. I am committed to listening to, engaging with and working collaboratively with local authorities to ensure our decisions make a real difference for learners.

Francesca O'Brien (Reform UK, Gŵyr Abertawe)

Diolch, Minister, for your answer. Just three months into this financial year, Swansea Council has already overspent by £13.7 million over its budget. It has imposed a vacancy freeze and severe spending restrictions. The council's finance director warns that its general reserves are already below, and I quote, 'the absolute minimum of acceptability', end of quote, and the council is now considering using its reserves. Of course, once these reserves are spent, they are gone, and its schools buildings programme is £73 million more than it can afford, so fewer schools will get the investment that they were promised.

One of the fastest growing pressures on councils is additional learning needs. Wales received additional funding for ALN on the back of increased spending in England, but your supplementary budget kept that money in Cardiff Bay, rather than sending it to councils and schools that actually support these children. So, when you bring your revised plans forward this autumn, Minister, will you commit to passing that ALN funding directly to local authorities so councils aren't forced to drain their reserves to fill that spending gap?

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

Thank you very much. These are conversations that are ongoing with local authorities. I met, in fact, with the Welsh Local Government Association yesterday to discuss a range of factors that are impacting local authorities at the moment. To return to the ALN spending, I agree with you that this is a pressing priority for local authorities and for our schools, which is why we made those commitments around funding in the supplementary budget. She will be aware that that was not successful, but that is continuing work and there remain opportunities for that funding to be sent to local authorities and schools to address some of these issues.

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Thank you very much, Ministers.

3. Questions to the Senedd Commission

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

We will move now to item 3, questions to the Senedd Commission. Question 1—Kiera Marshall.

Kiera Marshall (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

1. How does the Commission ensure there are sufficient facilities for expressing breast milk on the Senedd estate? OQ64539

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Thank you for the question.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

The Senedd Commission is committed to ensuring that we are inclusive to everyone who works on or visits the estate. We have facilities available for those who need to express milk following the birth of their child. The quiet rooms can be used for expressing milk, and fridges are available to store the milk. These can be found on the ground floor in Tŷ Hywel in B block, opposite the committee rooms, and one in the Senedd on the Neuadd level. In addition, people can access the first aid rooms, where privacy, seating or couch facilities are provided. All these facilities are lockable and can be marked as occupied. For Commission staff, managers and HR support return-to-work planning after maternity leave in a number of ways, including a new and expectant parent risk assessment, covering practical arrangements such as quiet rooms, hygiene facilities and secure refrigerated storage.

Kiera Marshall (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

Thank you for that. I just wanted to flag some of my lived experience, because as a mother of a young baby, I had the experience of trying to find a suitable place to pump on the Senedd estate. I was initially offered the medical room you mentioned, but it only had a bed in it, and you can't pump lying down, and I do need a desk and chair to work, and I couldn't possibly lose two hours of my working day. I was then offered the quiet room, but if you look on the internal intranet, this room is listed as a place for prayer and contemplation, so that wasn't appropriate. I then had to use a printing room, which had no lock on the door, until I got in touch with the Senedd estate, and it also had no access then to the fridge that was in the medical room. So, given that the Senedd aims to be family friendly and inclusive, I was surprised that these facilities don't seem to support pumping on the estate, and the NHS does recommend breastfeeding up until two years, when most parents will have returned to work. Only 32 per cent of babies are still being breastfed at six months, despite all of the known benefits. So, I was wondering if you would look at creating a space for pumping that enables people to work at the same time, and confirm to me that no member of staff or Member will face the same circumstances I was in.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

I really welcome that feedback from your own experience, and thank you for sharing that with us. I'm more than happy to take that back to officials and to facilitate, if necessary, discussion with my officials so that they can look at that. One of the opportunities as to what we can do now to improve that—and we do want to be, very much, that best practice in terms of the workplace—the other thing going forward is how we respond to the family friendly and inclusive parliament review, which had recommendations specifically with regard to family friendly support, breastfeeding and so on. So, if you're happy, I'll facilitate those discussions and we can look at how we can improve it now.

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Questions 2 and 7 are grouped. Question 2 first—Joe Martin.

Joe Martin (Reform UK, Caerdydd Penarth)

2. What are Commission's plans regarding the expansion of Tŷ Hywel? OQ64535

Louise Emery (Reform UK, Clwyd)

7. Will the Commission provide an update on the Bay 32 project? OQ64558

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Diolch, Joe. Bay 32 is the Commission’s project to secure fit-for-purpose accommodation beyond the expiry of the Tŷ Hywel lease, which happens in 2032. A competitive procurement concluded that the best value option is a major refurbishment and renewal of Tŷ Hywel, with the potential for Commission ownership. Equitix is the preferred bidder and its proposal includes more than £50 million of landlord investment—landlord investment—in the building. This is planned to include increasing the amount of useable space in Tŷ Hywel by 25 per cent. The project is now in detailed design during a pre-development phase with capped costs to the Commission. Because the building must remain operational during major works, temporary accommodation will be needed for Members, staff and for services. So, the Commission will consider options for managing any relocation, before considering the full business case later this year. The works are currently expected to begin from early summer 2027 and last for up to three years.

Joe Martin (Reform UK, Caerdydd Penarth)

Thank you, Commissioner. Rent on Tŷ Hywel currently costs £2.7 million per year. Can you give any indication of what that might rise to once the proposed construction is complete?

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

I'm pleased to reiterate what I said in my opening remarks. First of all, the project is now in a capped cost pre-development phase. It's pegged. There's a clear understanding and expectation from all of the Commissioners who were involved in taking this forward, and an understanding from the potential project delivery partners as well. The other thing, reiterating but expanding a little bit on what I said earlier, is that we ran a competitive process. So, the Commission had a real choice of options of how to do this very important work for all of us and the constituents who come here to meet us as well. So, we tested the markets and secured what we believe is a very strong proposal for the long-term future of Tŷ Hywel. But one other thing I would say to you, Joe, and to other Members, is that we're keen that the project continues to be shaped by Member feedback, in providing those spaces that allow you and others to carry out your parliamentary roles. So, no decision has been taken yet to proceed, of course, with construction; the full business case is yet to be brought forward. We look forward to engaging with Members, and also with political groups as well, on the proposals as they're developed.

Louise Emery (Reform UK, Clwyd)

Thank you, you've answered a couple of questions in your statement, so I just wanted to ask: will the landlord be paying for the costs relating to moving us and staff members, or is it just for the improvements to Tŷ Hywel? Thanks.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

So, the cost of what is known as the 'decant strategy', and the different options on that that Commissioners are currently considering, is within the cost we've already described. So, we're not looking at an escalating cost; we're looking at managing it within the budgets we've already put for it. And, as I say, this pre-development phase, we've got capped costs for this. So, I hope that's an assurance to the Member. And, I have to say, there's very robust challenge from the Commissioners, all of them, in terms of keeping this within the cost envelope that we've anticipated.

Ideally, going forward, we'll have a good building that is refurbished and fit for now and for years to come, that enhances the experience for Members and for people who visit here, and we can also do that in a very cost-effective way. Because at the moment—Members shouldn't be under any misapprehension as to what we are facing—if we don't proceed with this, the status quo option includes forking out for repairs to the existing building, into the millions of pounds. So, what we're trying to do is avoid that eventuality.

Lindsay Whittle (Plaid Cymru, Blaenau Gwent Caerffili Rhymni)

3. What assessment has the Commission made of the impact of the ongoing backlog of payments from the Civil Service Pension Scheme on its current and former employees? OQ64546

Peredur Owen Griffiths (Plaid Cymru, Casnewydd Islwyn)

Diolch, Lindsay. Responsibility for administering the civil service pension scheme transferred from MyCSP to Capita on 1 December 2025. The change was intended to modernise the service, but the transfer included a substantial volume of cases affecting some retirement quotations and new pension payments. The Cabinet Office and Capita established a recovery programme to prioritise urgent and hardship cases, clear outstanding work, and restore contracted service standards.

The Commission currently has fewer than five former employees who have retired since Capita became the administrators, one of which has accessed the hardship loan scheme introduced by the Commission, in line with Cabinet Office guidance, to mitigate the financial impact, and we continue to monitor the situation and seek assurances that outstanding cases are resolved very quickly.

Lindsay Whittle (Plaid Cymru, Blaenau Gwent Caerffili Rhymni)

Thank you, Commissioner. I have been contacted by three constituents—probably three of the five—regarding the unacceptable and worrying delays and backlogs they're dealing with from Capita, the managing company of the civil service pension scheme. Capita has issued a statement saying that they have everything in place to begin clearing the backlog. However, they will not provide a timeline for when every case will be cleared, nor will they provide a date for my constituents on their individual cases, and that is important. I've met people who have worked all their lives in the service of the public, and they now face serious financial hardship. They shouldn't have to go for financial loans at that time of life because their public pensions, of course, were outsourced to a private company unable, let's be honest, to manage those pensions. Has the Commission had any discussions with the Cabinet Office in Westminster or the civil service pension scheme regarding the retired former employees from the Senedd? And if not, can you please commit to doing this?

Peredur Owen Griffiths (Plaid Cymru, Casnewydd Islwyn)

Thank you very much for raising this issue.

Peredur Owen Griffiths (Plaid Cymru, Casnewydd Islwyn)

It raises serious issues and, I agree, the situation is completely unacceptable. The welfare of former employees is paramount to what this Commission is looking to do.

In answer to your question, the chief executive has written to the managing director of Capita Pensions Solutions earlier this year to raise the concerns that you've raised, and former members of staff have raised, about the impact the backlog was having on Commission staff. To date, we haven't had a response to that, and that is also unacceptable.

But, in turning to what the Commission has done to support your constituents and others, in addition to administering the hardship loan, the human resources service continues to provide ongoing communication to affected retired staff, and the welfare of former employees has remained our primary concern. So, we will be keeping that under review and, where possible, furthering it as well.

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Thank you. Question 4 [OQ64493] from Tom Montgomery is withdrawn, so, question 5 from Francesca O'Brien.

Francesca O'Brien (Reform UK, Gŵyr Abertawe)

I thought my name was Tom, then. Diolch, Presiding Officer.

Francesca O'Brien (Reform UK, Gŵyr Abertawe)

5. Pa gamau y mae'r Comisiwn yn eu cymryd i ddiogelu lles Aelodau a'u staff? OQ64516

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Diolch, Francesca. The Commission takes the welfare of Members and their staff very seriously, and we provide practical, accessible support across well-being, employment, health and safety, dignity and respect, safeguarding, and, of course, security. This includes confidential employee assistance and occupational health services, tailored HR guidance and training, and security advice and measures. The Hwb brings information and face-to-face support together in one place, with a weekly virtual drop-in for support staff, whatever their location.

The Commission's phased learning framework treats personal resilience, well-being and maintaining a healthy work-life balance as continuing development needs rather than one-off induction topics. Training is repeated, reinforced and extended through the Senedd term, with provision adapted to Member and support staff learning needs and delivery preferences.

And just finally, the Members' security team provides support to Members on a wide range of personal safety and security matters, including advice and guidance, the implementation of security measures at homes and offices, practical support and advice relating to social media security, and the reporting and management of security-related incidents.

Francesca O'Brien (Reform UK, Gŵyr Abertawe)

Diolch for the description there. If I can provide some context to my question, and the scene I want to picture: Members of this Chamber and their support staff come into the Tŷ Hywel building each day to carry out their work freely, often in areas where members of the public are excluded unless they're chaperoned around the building. However, what's become quite clear is that we do have journalists, dare I say, lurking along the corridors in areas that we don't know. Some could be on the radio. We don't know who they are, or what they look like. I can give an example of that, if I may: just before the summer recess, going into the ladies' bathroom on level 2 and meeting a very chatty lady as I came out of the cubicle—and I know we all like a good chat, and I'm one for those—however, she asked for my number, when I believed perhaps she was support staff for one of my colleagues, and it was actually a journalist. So, I do think there are lines being blurred here between the access that they have to our workspace and kind of being led down a garden path, shall I say? I don't think that's appropriate, and I do wonder whether we can consider that they are put in a certain restricted area and not have free access to where we work, including the bathrooms as well.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Thank you for that. It's helpful with that supplementary. The Commissioners, of course, keep constantly under review the access and the privileged access to different parts of not just the Senedd building, but also here within Tŷ Hywel as well. There are different levels of pass holders, and there's an expectation as well that there's an accompaniment of visitors into certain areas by pass holders—just to remind colleagues as well. But we do keep this under review, and we do keep a refresh on it. So, I take on board the individual example that you're saying. Perhaps we can discuss it further in terms of what area that was, what precise location that was.

But we do also want the building to be able to be accessible to people who want to ask us questions as elected representatives and for constituency members who visit us, and for legitimate lobbyists who come here from health organisations, et cetera, et cetera. So, point taken. I'm happy to discuss the individual location that you mentioned and, of course, Commissioners will always keep this under review.

Niamh Salkeld (Plaid Cymru, Blaenau Gwent Caerffili Rhymni)

I thank the Member for raising this important point. I hope that the Member and also everyone else in this Senedd agrees with me that we also, as Members of the Senedd, must take responsibility for looking after each other, whatever our party. This is especially important when the online world is becoming ever more violent towards politicians, especially young women. Therefore, as I speak about the online world, I'd like to ask what the Commission is doing to support Members of the Senedd and staff who see their well-being being negatively impacted because of the increase that we have all seen in online abuse, especially with AI as well, and deepfakes, just as an example for you.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Diolch yn fawr iawn. I would refer Members very strongly not just to the Hwb, but to the security team presence as well, for all the advice and assistance they can give. Of course, there is an interaction that we have, not just as individual Members, but through our security people, including the observation and monitoring. It's not monitoring in a NASA style, but keeping an eye on what's happening online. There is engagement as well with police across Wales. This is an issue that affects all Members, because it can be quite a hostile environment out there. But I would strongly say to Members and their staff that if they have individual instances, they should bring them to the attention of our security people, because they want to hear about it and we need to be notified of it.

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Thank you. Question 6 [OQ64482], tabled by Janet Finch-Saunders, is withdrawn. Question 7 was grouped with question 2. So we'll move to question 8. Jane Dodds.

Jane Dodds (Liberal Democrat, Brycheiniog Tawe Nedd)

8. What safeguarding checks does the Commission require of Members of the Senedd before they undertake activities involving children and young people? OQ64547

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Diolch, Jane. Responsibility for safeguarding arrangements within Members' offices rests with the individual Members, as Members of the Senedd are individually elected and they're not Commission employees. Members need to have their own safeguarding policy appropriate to their role as office holders and employers, as they are responsible for their activities. The statutory disclosure and barring framework is reserved to the UK level.

Jane Dodds (Liberal Democrat, Brycheiniog Tawe Nedd)

Thank you very much for that response.

Jane Dodds (Liberal Democrat, Brycheiniog Tawe Nedd)

During my first term as a Senedd Member, I was really surprised that I could go into any school, any youth club, any provision where a child, a young person or a vulnerable person lived or worked without any checks, without any need to show any documentation. On all of those visits, I was accompanied by somebody, but it wouldn't take a genius and it wouldn't take much imagination for somebody quite powerful, who is a Member of the Senedd, to say, 'I'd like to do this on my own'. I do believe it is the Senedd's responsibility to ensure that Senedd Members, who have access and are in powerful roles to influence other people—. It should take the responsibility. There is no reference to this in any recent documentation, and I raised it in the last Senedd. I wonder if the Senedd Commission could take this forward, even on a voluntary basis, to look at how Members could get a DBS check, which doesn't give you an absolute safety mark, but it is a tool in the toolbox that ensures that this Parliament is not putting children, young people and vulnerable people at risk by allowing Senedd Members to do their duties. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Thank you. There are a couple of points for consideration here. First of all, the statutory disclosure and barring framework is reserved to UK level, so broadening eligibility for things such as enhanced checks would require action by the UK Government. I'm aware that political parties operate, on a voluntary basis, their own approach to candidates, and it differs from party to party. We watch with interest the different proposals that are emerging currently at a UK level from some individual MPs. Some of them are looking at a statutory basis for changing this, and some at a non-statutory basis. The basic test, as you mentioned, in terms of DBS, as opposed to the enhanced test, has some limitations with it in terms of what it provides. My understanding is that DBS checks are legally designed as a tool for employers or for licensing bodies to assess the suitability of an applicant for a specific workplace role. MSs, of course, not unlike MPs, are not employees, but independent constitutional office holders chosen directly by voters. But it is an interesting area, and we're watching the discussions going on in Westminster at the moment. But the responsibility rests with UK statute.

Catherine Cullen (Reform UK, Blaenau Gwent Caerffili Rhymni)

9. What action is the Senedd Commission taking to ensure a range of news media platforms are available on the Senedd estate? OQ64544

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Members and staff are able to access all major news outlets using the Senedd IT network on laptops and other Senedd Commission-issued devices. With regard to the internal broadcasting network, this matter is subject to ongoing discussion by Commissioners, and I’m sure Commissioners will gladly report back to their respective groups in due course. All major newspapers are delivered to the Senedd's library and can be accessed by Members and staff.

Catherine Cullen (Reform UK, Blaenau Gwent Caerffili Rhymni)

Thank you for that answer. I think we've been here before, haven't we? When the Commission considered this issue in July, it argued that Sky News alone provided proficient plurality on the Senedd's television system. I would respectfully suggest that, in the time since GB News was removed from the Senedd's system, the media landscape has changed. Since the departure of Laurence Fox, GB News has continued to grow its audience and broaden its reach. It now reaches over 1 million viewers per day and, in 2025, overtook Sky News as the UK's largest commercial news channel by average viewing figures.

Whether Members agree with GB News or not is beside the point. It is an Ofcom-regulated broadcaster watched by millions of people across the United Kingdom. I'm sure that everybody on this side of the Chamber is a fan of GB News. Excluding it from the Senedd's internal television system risks creating the impression that some lawful viewpoints are more acceptable than others. In the interests of pluralism, free expression and informed democratic debate, will the Commission now review its policy and reconsider the inclusion of GB News on the Senedd estate? Diolch.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Catherine, you are right indeed, we have been here before. At the last Senedd Commission questions, there was quite a lengthy discussion on this. I can't really add much to my opening response. Perhaps it's worth highlighting for the record that press freedom is a principle that we all share. It remains central to the integrity and openness of the democratic institutions here in Wales. This principle, by the way, is reflected, as I mentioned in my opening remarks, in our policy on press passes to the estate as well. It is also reflected in the fact that all the major news outlets can be accessed on the Senedd IT network—on laptops and other Senedd Commission devices—and in the access to all major newspapers in the Senedd library. But as I said earlier, the matter is subject to ongoing discussions by Commissioners, and out of respect to them and those discussions, it's difficult for me to add to my earlier remarks.

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

The final question, question 10, Gwyn Williams.

Gwyn Williams (Plaid Cymru, Gŵyr Abertawe)

10. Will the Commission consider alternative routes linking Tŷ Hywel to the Siambr to help alleviate bottlenecks during Plenary? OQ64548

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Diolch, Gwyn. Ease of access to the existing routes from Tŷ Hywel to the Senedd building, and significant improvements to how the buildings connect for Members and other users, is actively being looked at in detail as part of the Bay 32 project. The Commission is not, however, currently considering any further alternative physical bridges, for example, to the Senedd building from Tŷ Hywel. There are two link bridges that provide access from Tŷ Hywel to the Senedd building—one via the first floor staff restaurant and one on the second floor. Access from the first floor link bridge is via lifts only. The second floor link bridge directly joins the Senedd building, with no lift required. Direct access is also available at ground floor level via the Senedd building courtyards.

Gwyn Williams (Plaid Cymru, Gŵyr Abertawe)

Diolch yn fawr. I would humbly suggest, as a new Member, as many of the people here are—. The level of the canteen, which is marked M, and the first floor and the stairwell on the other side, as you said in your answer, can only be connected via a lift. It does seem to be, at busy periods, a bottleneck of people. I have lost count of the number of long-serving staff, including a very nice lady called Sam, who works in the tea room here—. She has said that she has lost count of the number of times that she has suggested a flight of steps connecting that level with the stairwell on the other side. And there is some space to the side. So, would the Commission agree that this is a bottleneck and that a simple addition of a flight of steps would ease congestion? Would you look into it further so that I can report back to Sam in the tea room?

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Now we're put right on the spot, because if Sam is keeping an eye on this, my goodness. As I mentioned, the proposals we're looking at for developing and enhancing the facilities here include those routes from one part of the building to the other—from Tŷ Hywel to the Senedd. So, it's under consideration by the Commissioners in the plans going forward. It won't be immediate—I can't promise that. Meanwhile, we're all going to have to work hard to avoid that last-minute bottleneck where we're all jammed in with Sam, with very important services and goods being taken across at the same time that we're rushing down for the bell. Diolch.

4. Topical Questions

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

We move on now to item 4. No topical questions were accepted.

5. 90-second Statements

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Item 5, 90-second statements. Kiera Marshall.

Kiera Marshall (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

Diolch. This week is Adult Learners' Week, and I'd like to pay tribute to all the adult learners across Wales. It's sometimes difficult to step back into education, so it's so important that there's support there for them. The impact of adult learning is life-changing, and extends far beyond education. It improves health and well-being, and is fundamental to Wales's economic growth. It enables adults to access upskilling and reskilling and enhance their lives in ways that we will never understand.

The adult community learning programme in particular offers people an important route into education, supporting people to access learning in a setting and at a pace that is right for them. Tonight, the Inspire! adult learning awards are going to take place, and I'd like to congratulate Hannah from my constituency in Caerdydd Penarth who will be receiving the new Welsh speaker award.

Hannah will be recognised alongside 10 other award winners who are all being celebrated for their commitment, dedication and achievements—learners who have changed their lives through adult education. I hope these stories, and thousands like them across Wales, can encourage more people to embrace the message of Adult Learners' Week—to never stop learning. Diolch.

Sarah Rees (Plaid Cymru, Pen-y-bont Bro Morgannwg)

Last Friday marked International Equal Pay Day, a UN awareness day of gender inequality and the gender pay gap between men and women. Sadly, this is a pressing issue for Wales. The latest state of the nation report on gender equality by the Women's Equality Network Wales exposed that the gender pay gap in Wales has widened to 9.7 per cent. On average, female employees earn £15.78 per hour, whilst male employees earn £17.48. Compared to men, women are over three times more likely to be out of the job market due to caring responsibilities. Women are also three times more likely to work part-time, which is limiting to earnings and progression. And women are more likely to work in sectors and roles that are lower paid, such as health and social care. We need change.

Barriers to economic equality, like unequal caring responsibilities and gender stereotypes, must be challenged. Women must be supported to access better paid jobs, skills and training programmes throughout their careers, and we must have robust and inclusive policies on flexible working, harassment, menopause and parental leave. This International Equal Pay Day, I urge all colleagues across the Senedd to champion gender equality and help create a Wales free from gender discrimination. Diolch yn fawr.

Jane Dodds (Liberal Democrat, Brycheiniog Tawe Nedd)

Next month, Wyeside Arts Centre in Builth Wells celebrates an incredible milestone—50 years of bringing arts and culture to the heart of rural mid Wales. The fiftieth birthday weekend brings that history to life, with Welsh music, poetry, art and community participation. At its centre is Cymuned Gwy, a new bilingual work commissioned for the anniversary, inspired by the River Wye and the people who live alongside it. Wyeside is a small, independent charity, but its contribution is anything but small. Open six days a week, it provides cinema, live performance, music, exhibitions and opportunities for people to come together across a large rural area.

Places like Wyeside offer far more than entertainment. They are places where people meet, participate and belong. The anniversary, as well as looking forward and back, has amazing plans to introduce to people as well, which will improve accessibility, and new facilities that will serve mid Wales for decades to come. Alongside this celebration, we know there is a serious challenge. Despite operating all year round, generating much of its income, and being supported by a small team of volunteers, Wyeside continues to face a significant revenue shortfall. I congratulate everyone who has sustained Wyeside over 50 years, and encourage colleagues to join the celebrations from 9 to 11 October, to see its plans for the future, and help ensure it remains at the heart of mid Wales. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Safa Elhassan (Plaid Cymru, Gŵyr Abertawe)

It's Migraine Awareness Week, and I want to recognise people across Wales living with a condition that is too often dismissed. Migraines affect one in seven people in the UK. It's a neurological condition that can cause severe pain, sickness and sensitivity to light and sound. Its impact reaches far beyond an attack. It affects work, family life and mental well-being.

The Migraine Trust's latest survey found that nine in 10 respondents had felt disbelief about the severity or the impact of their migraine. Nearly a third had experienced this from their colleagues or their managers. More than three quarters say that the disbelief has damaged their mental health. Nobody should have to fight to be believed while already struggling with pain. The trust's 'Believe me' campaign carries a simple message to us all: listen, take migraine seriously and offer practical support. To people living with migraine in Gŵyr Abertawe, and across Wales: your experience matters. Pain does not have to be visible to deserve understanding, and a little patience and compassion can make a difference. Diolch.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Thank you very much.

6. Welsh Labour Debate: Further education

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

We'll move on now to item 6, the Welsh Labour debate on further education. I call on Lynne Neagle to move the motion.

Lynne Neagle (Labour, Sir Fynwy Torfaen)

Diolch, Lywydd. Can I draw Members' attention to my register of interests and the fact that I'm an adult learner in Cardiff and Vale College?

Today, I want to focus on one of Wales's greatest success stories and one that too often does not receive the recognition it deserves: our further education colleges. Across Wales, colleges are changing lives every day. For young people, they are the chance to take that first step after school and progress to work, an apprenticeship or to university. For adults, they are access to lifelong learning, and for employers, they are the support they need to upskill their workforce, improve productivity and compete for new business.

Across Wales, colleges have shown that they are innovators and are ready to meet new challenges. In north Wales, they are helping to drive the new tertiary alliance with our university sector. In south-west Wales, the four colleges have come together to form a new partnership to maximise opportunities from the Celtic Freeport. And in south-east Wales, colleges have pioneered new ways of supporting learners, including the junior apprenticeship programme I was so proud to support in Government. The evidence of their value is clear.

This year, colleges across Wales have seen record levels of demand, with every college reporting increased participation. More learners than ever are choosing further education as their route into skills, qualifications and careers. Demand is particularly strong in vocational and technical subjects, such as construction, engineering and health and care—precisely the sectors we know are critical to Wales's future prosperity. Colleges are also providing opportunities for those who need them most. They are supporting thousands of learners who are returning to education, improving literacy and numeracy and rebuilding confidence after difficult experiences in school or elsewhere.

This is a Welsh success story, but it is fragile, and more learners means more pressure on space and on budgets. And the pressures are urgent, with ColegauCymru estimating the sector will have enrolled a record 50,000 young people this academic year. At a time when we are in the middle of a crisis with the number of young people who are not in employment, education or training, and when we are weeks away from the publication of the Milburn review, there has never been a more important time to invest in further education.

So, rising participation is a good news story. It is a sign that colleges are succeeding, it is a sign that further education is delivering for Wales and it is an opportunity for Wales. However, record demand brings with it a significant challenge. We know that funding has not kept pace with participation. Last year, I was able to put an additional £20 million in to support participation in the sector, but this year, the shortfall is estimated by both the sector and by Medr to be around £23.5 million. To stop even more learners missing out on places, colleges have been forced to make the difficult choice of moving funding from adult part-time provision to pay for full-time learner numbers. This all means there are around 5,000 learners who are studying for whom the sector isn't receiving any funding. Hundreds of learners have not got a place at all, and hundreds more did not get their first-choice course because of a shortage of places.

As well as pressure on places, it is also stretching vital support, such as well-being services, mental health support, financial hardship provision and learner travel. I hope Members know my own personal commitment to supporting learners with additional learning needs, and I am concerned about the impact of underfunding. Early data from ColegauCymru suggests an additional 65 per cent increase in learners with individual development plans, and it is essential that they can access the funding they need.

Looking ahead, the pressures in 2027-28 are even greater. The sector estimates that at least £40 million will be required in the 2027-28 academic year simply to maintain existing participation levels and respond to sustained learner demand. Pay and other inflationary pressures will push this even higher. If that funding is not available, the consequences could be significant. We risk more young people becoming disconnected from education and training. We risk job losses in the sector and cuts to support services. We risk cutting progression routes to our universities and stopping young people from taking that first step on their career paths. And we risk cutting off the skills pipeline that businesses need to compete and grow.

That is why this motion is important. It calls for a clear assessment of the consequences of failing to fund increased participation in further education. We need to understand the impact on learner pathways, on not in education, employment or training levels, on staff, on learner support services, and on progression into employment and higher education. Further education colleges take a much greater proportion of learners from lower income backgrounds. It is vital that we understand the impact on deprived communities across Wales. For many young people, particularly those with the fewest qualifications, college is their second chance, and they have very few options if they don't get a place. We owe it to the young people and to the adults who rely on further education to ensure our colleges have the resources they need.

Llywydd, this debate is ultimately about opportunity. When people want to learn, train and improve their prospects, our response should not be to limit opportunity, our response should be to understand the consequences of inaction and ensure that Wales continues to invest in success. Our colleges have demonstrated their value. They are helping young people realise their potential, supporting employers and strengthening communities across Wales. Now we must ensure that the resources available to them reflect the vital role they play. I urge Members to support our motion. Diolch.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Thank you. I have selected the amendments to the motion. I call now on the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education to move formally amendment 1, tabled in the name of Heledd Fychan.

Cefin Campbell (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

Formally move.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Thank you very much. I call on Sam Rowlands to move amendment 2, tabled in the name of Paul Davies.

Sam Rowlands (Conservative, Fflint Wrecsam)

Diolch, Lywydd. I move the amendment in the name of my colleague Paul Davies. I'd like to thank Labour colleagues for bringing this debate forward today; a really important issue has been highlighted in this Chamber. I certainly support the opening remarks by their spokesperson here this afternoon. We know, don't we, that the latest Welsh Government figures show that 17 per cent of 16 to 24-year-olds in Wales were not in employment, education or training in the year ending December 2025. That's an increase of 5.5 percentage points in just one year. That's nearly one in every five young adults that we would meet not in education, employment or training. Quite stark figures. Sometimes, Llywydd, we get so used to these numbers being bandied about, but it's pretty shocking, actually, that nearly one in five young adults are not in education, training or in employment.

We must remember that behind every one of those numbers is a young person who wants to get on with their life, to continue education, develop their skills, or step into the world of work. When they're unable to do so, as this motion recognises, the consequences can be long-lasting, affecting their health, earnings, life chances and ultimately affecting our society as a whole. That's why the role that further education colleges play in tackling this is so, so important. I know the Welsh Government do understand this, but what we need to see today as a result of this motion is action off the back of words.

We know, of course, that record numbers of learners are choosing further education colleges as a route into qualifications, skills and careers, with every college in Wales reporting an increase in participation this academic year. Minister, you'll be pleased to hear, of course, that I visited a college on Friday just gone. It was Coleg Cambria's Yale site in Wrexham. They had me playing pickleball in one of their sports halls, they had me observing some pickle being prepared in the restaurant, and I hope to God that there's no footage of me getting in a pickle on the dance floor in their dance studio.

What they told me about also was the increased demand that they're seeing at their own site there in Wrexham, which I know reflects colleges across Wales experiencing the same kinds of pressures. We know that there's particularly a strong demand in vocational and technical education areas, such as construction, engineering and healthcare, which happen to be precisely the sectors where Wales needs skilled workers today. And as we've already heard in the opening remarks, Llywydd, the increased demand is not being met with the funding that is required.

We've already heard about the 5,000 learners across colleges in Wales who are studying without the associated funding to properly support them. In my own constituency, there are around 1,000 students currently in colleges without the funding in place to provide the support that they need. We've failed to fund that demand. We risk fewer places, fewer courses and less support for the young people that I talked about right at the opening of my contribution today, which are those young people who aren't in work, those young people who aren't currently in training and aren't able to see that future that we need them to be able to see. The risk is a NEET crisis getting worse and not better.

But funding is only one part of the solution, and that's why our Welsh Conservative amendment is so important, and that's why we're calling on the Welsh Government to encourage that greater collaboration between those colleges and the private sector. Because we do have a bit of a strange situation in Wales at the moment, where many of us across the Chamber will be aware that employers are struggling to find people with the right skills while young people are struggling to find clear routes into work. So, something's not quite matching up. I'm sure that the Minister will speak about the skills audit that's under way, and I really hope that business is right at the heart of that thinking as well. Because employers can help those colleges understand the skills that industries need, colleges can give businesses access to the next generation of talent, and learners can gain the experience and understanding of the workplace that make the difference between finishing education and finding a career.

An example of this, Llywydd, is in the defence sector. We know that UK defence investment in Wales accounts for around about £1 billion a year into our Welsh industries. So, why wouldn't we want Welsh colleges to work with the defence sector to make sure our young people are equipped to take advantage of the opportunities that are there for them in the future? The same applies to construction, engineering, energy and many other sectors on which Wales's economy depends so importantly.

So, this isn't about telling young people what career they should choose, it's about giving them the opportunity, the experience and the choice to be able to move into a world of work. The Welsh Conservatives believe that every learner should be able to choose a path that works for them. That's why it's important that this motion and our amendment is supported. We need properly funded colleges, stronger links between education and industry and a Welsh Government focused on creating opportunities for our young people. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Zaynub Akbar (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

I'd like to thank Lynne Neagle for bringing this important debate to the Chamber today. Before the summer recess, I raised the situation at Coleg y Cymoedd, which has a campus in my constituency, in Nantgarw. Across its four campuses, there were hundreds of prospective learners placed on waiting lists due to funding constraints at that point. Many had applied for construction, manufacturing and other vocational courses, but even now, with the term under way, 400 learners have had to enrol on their second or third-choice courses, while 40 of them remain on waiting lists.

So, we are now just a year away from the roll-out of VCSEs, the vocational certificate of secondary education, for 14 to 16-year-olds. The situation at Coleg y Cymoedd clearly demonstrates there is already strong demand among young people for vocational education. So, with just one year to go until the roll-out, I wondered how the Welsh Government is planning to ensure the VCSEs are delivered consistently across all schools in Wales and, crucially, joined up with further education, apprenticeships and the skills needs that employers want.

Benjamin McKenna (Reform UK, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

I stand today in support of the motion, not because I agree with everything that Labour did in Government—and, to be clear, I don't—but because the facts in the motion today are true: too many young people in Wales are not in education, employment or training. Demand for college places is up, but the funding has not followed suit, and that is a crucial policy failure that must be addressed.

The motion today discusses a crisis amongst young people who are not in education, employment or training, alongside the lifelong scarring that follows. Now, we know that the statistics are dire. As Sam just shared with us, in the year ending December 2025, 17 per cent of 16 to 24-year-olds were not in education, employment or training. That's 56,800 young people who are unable to participate in the economy. Wales was the only UK nation where those statistics rose year on year, with a 5.5 per cent increase. That is a stark failure of the Government in this place to deliver for our young people. It's also a huge missed opportunity for our economy and for our public finances. If we could get just half of those young people into full-time employment, the Welsh Government would generate over £90 million in income tax receipts. And that's before you consider the wider benefits that come with a larger consumer base and a greater number of young people who are engaged in the economy.

Now, colleges are one of our main routes for young people to escape the NEET trap. The motion is right to recognise that the record levels of demand are imposing financial pressures on these organisations. Colleges across Wales are being forced to turn students away because they simply do not have the resources to place them on courses. ColegauCymru said in January that the 2026-27 budget risked shutting young people out of education and that it would shatter the then Government's own young person's guarantee. They estimated a funding shortfall of more than £23.5 million across FE institutions.

Now, the young person's guarantee was Labour's promise to every 16 to 24-year-old in the country that they would be offered education, training or help into work. Yet, with some of the highest employability spending per head compared to other parts of the UK, more and more of our young people are being left behind. The Government needs to step up and deliver the funding for institutions and initiatives that can help to solve this problem.

Now, last week, Llywydd, I visited, alongside yourself, a showcase event for Pathways, a pilot project that helped to get young people in the Rhondda out of the NEET trap and on to a positive path for the future. That pilot will publish its evidence this autumn, and I hope that it can be a positive model for young people for improving their lives and continuing to engage with the economy.

Now, Plaid Cymru spend a lot of time talking about their ambitions for Wales, but the ambitions that I'm interested in are the ambitions of our young people and their ability to fulfil those ambitions within the economy. Therefore, I will be supporting the motion before us today, alongside the Conservative amendment calling for closer ties between our institutions and the private sector. Diolch yn fawr.

Vikki Howells (Labour, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

I'm really pleased to be able to contribute to today's debate. I had the privilege of leading on higher education and further education in the last two years of the previous Welsh Labour Government. I'd just like to echo the point made by my colleague Lynne Neagle about how pleased we were to be able to allocate that additional £20 million to FE. But that need for additional funding is an upward trajectory, Deputy Minister, and this is a really clear message that you need to take from today's debate about that need for additional funding.

One thing I loved when I held that role was the ability to get out and about across Wales, meeting learners and the staff who support them. There were, and are, challenges, but the passion, the dedication to strive and achieve and deliver the very best learning outcomes was clear. That experience will shape my comments today, and I want to start by mentioning the new Welsh Government's higher education review. Now, this is important. The sector does face issues, and it's right that these are looked at, but the focus just on HE stands in direct contrast to the approach that we took in Government. That was based on ensuring the participation and sustainability of the whole tertiary system, and I am concerned that, without that focus, there's a very real danger that the focus on further education will be lost and its funding displaced also. I hope that this is something the Welsh Government will address when responding to the debate.

And what will the impact be if we lose this focus on FE? Well, we know that FE plays a key role in providing both vocational and academic pathways, particularly, as others have mentioned, for those young people most at risk of disengaging from education. Indeed, I would suggest that there is, in fact, a moral imperative for the Government to focus on FE to address this challenge.

On Monday, I visited Coleg y Cymoedd's Aberdare campus in my constituency, and my thanks to the staff and students who took the time to talk to me there as part of Adult Learners Week. There were some really excellent examples of mature learners re-engaging with education, meeting the need in the way that only FE can. This is another area where there is considerable demand, as I mentioned in my education question earlier today. This is a pattern that has been noted in several years. Those adult learners looking to re-engage should not have to lose out.

My conversations with staff and learners in Coleg y Cymoedd sketched out a very similar picture. Overall, that college, just one campus—. That college has over 5,500 full-time learners of all ages on its books, the majority aged 16 to 17, though. But, astonishingly, only just over 83 per cent are funded. Can I take a second just to reinforce that? Nearly one in five of the college's full-time students aren't funded. On the Aberdare campus, that's not just a stat, but 600 individual learners. Without funding, they are in real danger of disengaging.

So, there are 400 learners there at level 1 and level 2 who are not on their first-choice courses. That, in itself, represents a risk of disengagement. And for the first year ever, that particular campus has 40 learners that they haven't been able to place that are on a waiting list and unable to be enrolled, in real danger of disengaging from education forever. There were 80 learners there who they were only able to place on courses for two days a week. They would really like to be able to place them for much longer than that, and, of course, the less time they are placed in college, the more the risk of disengagement. That would need a hire drive for staff recruitment to accommodate, and, of course, that all comes down to funding.

There's been a 47 per cent increase in that campus alone in this year for individual development plans for learners with additional learning needs, and we all know that it needs resource to be able to cater for those needs. Now, I know a review of FE would not be a panacea, but it could shine a spotlight on the issues and help us work together to determine the solutions to put things right for our learners.

I want to close by reflecting on some of the benefits to the individual from engaging in FE: improved educational qualifications, a new path or journey, increased skills or enhanced employment opportunities. And crucially, as Public Health Wales reminds us, education is also one of the biggest preventative mechanisms for mental health as well. So, Deputy Minister, FE can change lives. Please remember that as you take forward your policy decisions over the coming Senedd term.