Senedd Cymru (Welsh Parliament), 15 July 2026

295 contributions from 54 members. The official report.

1. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Health and Care

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Good afternoon, everyone.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Good afternoon, everybody.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

We will move immediately to item 1, questions to the Cabinet Minister for Health and Care, and the first question is from Laura Anne Jones.

Laura Anne Jones (Reform UK, Sir Fynwy Torfaen)

1. What action is the Welsh Government taking to improve NHS services in Sir Fynwy Torfaen? OQ64391

Mabon ap Gwynfor (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Thank you for that question.

Mabon ap Gwynfor (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

I set out priorities for healthcare in Wales, including Sir Fynwy Torfaen, in my oral statement on 2 June. These focus on improving access, strengthening local services, providing more care closer to home, reducing waiting times, supporting staff and ensuring long-term sustainability.

Laura Anne Jones (Reform UK, Sir Fynwy Torfaen)

Diolch. In order to improve services for all in my constituency and across Wales, we need to ensure that we protect women's rights in line with the Supreme Court ruling that sex means biological sex, therefore protecting single-sex wards, toilets and changing rooms. We all know the case of the Darlington nurses, so this is crucial to prevent these situations not only for patients, but for staff. Language in the NHS is also important. Women and girls menstruate, women breastfeed, men don't. In health, this is important. Sex means biological sex. Facts are important. Let's cut the nonsense. Minister, will you now look into urgently making changes in our Welsh NHS in line with the ruling to protect women and girls in Wales, as they've already begun to do in other parts of the UK?

Mabon ap Gwynfor (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Thank you for that supplementary.

Mabon ap Gwynfor (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Llywydd, this question has been exercised many times in this Chamber, so I will re-emphasise the fact that this Government will respect the court ruling, of course, but we are clear that we will treat everybody within the NHS—who enters our NHS, who enters our GP surgeries, who enters our hospitals, wherever they are in the health and care system—with the dignity and respect that they deserve, respecting who they are and being there for them in their hour of need.

Matthew Jones (Plaid Cymru, Sir Fynwy Torfaen)

Diolch, Cabinet Minister, for that answer. Aneurin Bevan University Health Board is at level 4 escalation for finance, strategy, planning and performance, as well as for urgent and emergency care outcomes. I'm deeply concerned about how this is affecting the most vulnerable patients and those waiting for planned care. Due to longer waits, people are presenting with more complex needs. One person I know of, who has been waiting for a knee replacement, recently fell and broke her hip. I'm very concerned about the long waits that patients in my constituency are facing, and I know that the planned budget, which was voted against last night by Reform and Labour, proposed £145 million to alleviate waiting lists across Wales. What is the Government going to do now to improve the situation for vulnerable patients in Sir Fynwy Torfaen and the wider Aneurin Bevan University Health Board?

Mabon ap Gwynfor (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Thank you for the question from the Member. As the Member said, in the supplementary budget yesterday, as far as health is concerned, we had a focus on outcomes, on improving people's health and well-being by introducing more funding into tackling the waiting lists, and it was extremely disappointing, to say the least, to see people who have said that they wanted to support such a policy vote against it. We want to improve people's outcomes and make sure that the impact on patients is better. So, we have made sure that NHS Wales Performance and Improvement are now involved. They have agreed an intervention approach in the Aneurin Bevan University Health Board to support them. Their improvement plan focuses on supporting frail and older people in the community—exactly answering the points that the Member raised—increasing the front-door capacity for people with complex needs and ensuring timely discharge. We have also allocated an additional £3 million this year to enable the delivery of the improvement plan.

Peter Fox (Conservative, Sir Fynwy Torfaen)

Cabinet Secretary, I have had constituents tell me that, when calling 999, they are no longer being given an estimated arrival time for ambulances. Now, I understand this may reflect operational practice rather than a formal policy, particularly following recent changes to ambulance performance measures. However, not knowing when help is likely to arrive can add significant anxiety for patients and their families—should they wait or should they find another means of getting to hospital? Can you therefore clarify the position on providing ETAs and assure the Senedd that communication and reassurance remain part of the ambulance service approach? And what advice would you give to the public?

Mabon ap Gwynfor (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Thank you. The Member will be aware—I'm sure he was a member of the committee when we discussed ambulances in the last Senedd—that why those changes were brought in is because of recommendations put forward by our committee. The Member will have, I'm sure, read the story in the news recently about how other countries are now looking at the introduction of that purple target and how they are improving outcomes in the ambulance trust, which is to be welcomed. However, the broader point I think the Member raises about communication is important. Communication across the board in the NHS has not been where it should be in ensuring that patients know what to expect and when to expect it. So, this is something, certainly, I will be picking up in my regular meetings with the ambulance trust, and I'm more than happy to keep the Member informed on developments on that.

Claire Johnson-Wood (Reform UK, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

2. What steps is the Welsh Government taking to improve care for patients with cardiovascular disease who require cross-border treatment? OQ64417

Mabon ap Gwynfor (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

When patients need access to specialist care outside of their health board area, I expect the commissioning health board to have put in place robust pathway arrangements so that people receive seamless, high-quality care. The nature of these arrangements will depend on the specific condition in question.

Claire Johnson-Wood (Reform UK, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Thank you, Minister. I have personal experience of this issue. My father was rushed into hospital in Hereford, across the border, 42 miles away from home, after suffering a heart attack whilst, ironically, teaching cardiopulmonary resuscitation. He had then to be transferred to Wolverhampton—and this was actually the hospital that he was born in—where he was eventually given a quadruple heart bypass. The journey there and the length of his stay, and the difficulty in visiting him, all added to the stress of the experience. The whole experience was stressful for him and his loved ones. The scale of the challenge posed by cardiovascular ill health can be judged by the fact that British Heart Foundation Cymru say that there are around 26,000 people living with cardiovascular disease in Gwynedd Maldwyn alone today, and that number is growing. This disease causes 57 deaths each month and 680 deaths each year in my constituency alone. The British Heart Foundation calculate that the total annual healthcare cost of this disease across Wales is £770 million. Whilst the National Adult Cardiac Surgery Audit includes data for waiting times and surgery performed in England and Wales, not all data is available for Wales, which makes it much harder to scrutinise the Wales NHS performance.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

A question, please, Claire.

Claire Johnson-Wood (Reform UK, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Sorry. Can the Minister please tell the Senedd what plans he has to ensure that all relevant data for Wales is made available to us?

Mabon ap Gwynfor (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Firstly, can I say how sorry I am to hear of the experiences that you had to go through, and for your father? It must have been distressing and I sincerely hope that your father had a full recovery in that period.

The Member also raises an important point about the long distances involved in accessing such services, an issue that, of course, is especially pronounced in rural areas like Gwynedd Maldwyn. This is why our agenda has a particular emphasis on addressing disproportionate geographic barriers to accessing treatment with actions in the first 100 days plan, as well as longer term measures designed to support this objective.

In terms of the specific issues raised on data, the NHS Wales Joint Commissioning Committee is responsible for commissioning cardiac surgery on behalf of health boards in Wales. As part of the commissioning requirements, centres in Wales and those commissioned in England must submit data to the National Cardiac Audit Programme, which is funded by the Welsh Government. Now, while the most recent reports from the National Adult Cardiac Surgery Audit appear to contain data from commissioned centres in Wales, and along the border with Wales, that isn't to say that this data provides the entire spectrum of patients' experiences, and continuous reviewing and refining is of course a very important element of data handling. So, I'd be grateful, therefore, if the Member could write to me with further details on the specific gaps that she has found, and I'll instruct my officials to make enquiries on her behalf.

Elwyn Vaughan (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

One of the biggest challenges facing Powys health board is the significant increase in the cost of cross-border treatment levied by NHS England, which has contributed to a financial gap of around £7.8 million. In addition, the Wye valley health board is trying to levy an additional rural premium, which now stands at around £13 million. These issues have placed significant pressure on the finances of the health board, and no support was provided by the previous Government to address these additional costs. I welcome the additional investment of £145 million to reduce waiting lists across Wales. So, can the Cabinet Minister explain what assessment has been made to ensure that this investment benefits the residents of Powys? Thank you.

Mabon ap Gwynfor (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Thank you for that question. The Member made an important point at the outset in talking about the importance of the supplementary budget yesterday, in providing £145 million in this financial year in order to address waiting lists, to improve infrastructure and to improve the provision that we have for waiting lists. It was incredibly disappointing to see Labour and Liberal Members siding with Reform to vote against policies and against funding that would tackle one of the most pressing issues that has faced us in health in Wales over a decade and more.

But, we will continue with our plans to address those waiting lists, and this will directly benefit the people of Powys. We are aware of people who have been on waiting lists for far too long in Powys. They will benefit from this. But, we will also ensure that there is a rapid diagnostic centre for cancer introduced in Powys too so that people are seen earlier, rather than people going to hospitals that are long distances away when they get to stage 4 in their cancer journey, which will be far too late for many of them. We will see them more quickly and ensure that they get an earlier diagnosis too.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

I now call the party spokespeople to question the Cabinet Minister. First of all, the Reform UK spokesperson, James Evans.

James Evans (Reform UK, Brycheiniog Tawe Nedd)

Diolch, Lywydd. Can the Cabinet Minister tell us when two-year waits will be eliminated?

Mabon ap Gwynfor (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

We've been very clear that two-year waits will be tackled in a matter of months.

James Evans (Reform UK, Brycheiniog Tawe Nedd)

It's now 'a matter of months'. We've heard 'a matter of weeks'. We've heard the finance secretary say it's going to be 12 months. We've heard you say it could be years. Now, it is going to be months, not weeks. So, can you tell us what month these are going to be eliminated, because the Government in Wales are very good at doing slick social media clips, but they're not very good on the detail, are they? That's the problem at the minute. You say it's going to be months. People waiting in pain across Wales aren't going to be very happy about that. They want to know an absolute timeline of when they're going to be eliminated, when they can expect their letters to come through for operations, and you should be able to provide that detail today.

Mabon ap Gwynfor (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

The Member will be aware that the previous Government set a number of targets and failed to reach them because they weren't realistic. We are absolutely realistic in how we are investing this money into improving outcomes so that people are seen quicker. We know that we've got issues around gynaecology. We know we've got issues around cataracts. We know about orthopaedics. So, these are the things that we need to look at and improve. That's why we're going to set up the elective care hub, so that we can see people quicker, so that people can get their treatment within the time frame that is required, so that they improve and can get on with their lives. So, we're absolutely clear. We've been clear all along. I'm not quite sure where these questions come from. Everything we've said in the past, we are sticking by. We will be achieving this in a matter of months. However, let me remind you that you and your colleagues and others here voted against the budget yesterday, which had £145 million in order to tackle this. So, let's not have any crocodile tears that you are concerned about waiting lists. Clearly, you're not. If you were, you'd have supported the supplementary budget so that we could get this money onto the front line to see people as soon as possible.

James Evans (Reform UK, Brycheiniog Tawe Nedd)

I want to see more money in our NHS. You could put more money into the NHS if you listened to us and stopped funding some of your vanity projects like planting trees abroad, like some of the projects that you're doing close to home, wasting Welsh Government money looking at Welsh independence, something the public overwhelmingly did not vote for. That's the money that could go into the NHS. We've also heard about 'small change' for overseas offices. That's money that could go into our NHS. That is the reason why we voted against your supplementary budget, because it's a bad deal for Wales.

You just waffled then in your answer to me, Minister, because you didn't actually say when we were going to have those two-year waits gone. You've said 'months'. You've mentioned elective care hubs. By the time they go through planning, by the time the Welsh Government shuffles paper around their offices, that's going to end up being years. You know how the system works. You sat on committee with me when we discussed these things. They don't come overnight. So, can you now outline a date when two-year waits will be eliminated in Wales, because far too many people have been waiting in pain? You promised people you would sort this out, and it's about time you started to deliver, because your honeymoon period cannot go on forever.

Mabon ap Gwynfor (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

You voted against the £145 million yesterday, right? Let me remind you of what your spokesperson, Cai Parry-Jones, said. He set out a number of red lines and, within one of those red lines, why you were opposing it, was the fact that we are employing Indian doctors here. So, clearly, you're not concerned—[Interruption.] Indian nurses, sorry, just to correct the record—Indian nurses. So, let's be clear. You're not concerned about improving the health outcomes of people in Wales. You don't want to see an improved workforce here, which is what we're looking to get to grips with.

Now, you mentioned also planning. It's not all about planning. We've got—and I've mentioned this so many times—a number of under-utilised spaces here, theatre spaces that are not used properly. So, we're going to improve those theatre spaces so that we do see those treatments being carried out and people seen quicker. You should know this as an opposition spokesperson who's been on the committees. It's not difficult; this is what it's about. And we know what we're doing because everything we've put forward is clinically led. Now, if you don't want to see improved outcomes for people, fine, carry on as you are. But we know that we're being led by doctors, by surgeons, by operational managers who've done this successfully in parts of Wales and in England, who will advise us on the best way forward so that we can improve outcomes in Wales. That's our focus.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Welsh Labour spokesperson, Jayne Bryant.

Jayne Bryant (Labour, Casnewydd Islwyn)

Diolch, Lywydd. Our dedicated staff in our NHS work tirelessly, and in recent weeks many have experienced incredibly challenging working conditions due to the hot weather. Last month, the Welsh Ambulance Services University NHS Trust declared a critical incident following one of the busiest periods of sustained pressure on services in recent years. Demand was well in excess of normal levels as a result of the extreme heat, and I understand there was a noticeable increase in the number of young people presenting with symptoms of dehydration. We're accustomed to the NHS needing to prepare for the winter pressures, but what action is the Government taking to ensure that services, buildings and the workforce are equipped to deal with the impact of hot weather?

Mabon ap Gwynfor (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Thank you to the Member for that question and raising the issue. First of all, I think we need to recognise and be realistic that this is happening. Global warming is happening in front of our eyes. We're experiencing it. Some people want to deny that. Again, I'm pointing my finger at Reform, who are more than happy to say it's not happening. This is man-made, and it's impacting on the well-being of people in Wales, the people that you represent, and it's incumbent on us to respond to this as soon as we can.

The Wales ambulance trust was under significant pressure last week and the week before, and we've seen them step up as well and making sure that they are responding the best they can. I take my hat off to the paramedics, ambulance drivers and the people in that service who've done such terrific work in responding to the various calls that they've received over the last few weeks.

The recent heatwave saw unprecedented demand on the services, resulting in a critical incident being declared and substantial increases in both emergency calls and high acuity incidents. So, we put out a guidance note to all the hospitals and the health boards following the previous heatwave, making sure that they were aware that they needed to prepare for this summer and for the ones coming up.

You will have heard also in my winter pressure statements that I referred to the heatwaves, and the fact that we are now taking the approach of an all-year-round assessment of the situation. We are already preparing bilaterals with various Cabinet Ministers, in this instance the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning, looking at how we need to include those considerations of global warming and the environment around the health system when it comes to planning into those briefings and portfolios, so that we prepare, moving forward, for this in the future.

Jayne Bryant (Labour, Casnewydd Islwyn)

Diolch and, absolutely, the workforce is absolutely crucial. Earlier today, alongside my colleague Shav Taj, I met student midwives from the September 2023 cohort. They feel as though they've been left in limbo, with no jobs available. One newly-qualified midwife told me she was now working as a water technician, and others are working as baristas and in the hospitality sector. The students have been told that there might be opportunities to work in health and social care, but this is not what they want or that they're qualified to do. Now, I know the Minister is aware of the situation, but the student midwives cannot have been clearer today; they feel left behind and they feel without hope.

Welsh Labour protected the NHS Wales bursary scheme, supporting the next generation of healthcare workers to train and work in the Welsh NHS, but, without clinical experience, student midwives can't get jobs and they can't use their degree for anything else. One option would be to extend the bursary for another year to cover the preceptorship training that enables midwives to transition to professional practice. So, will the Welsh Government consider this as one option?

Mabon ap Gwynfor (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

So, the issue with the graduates lies squarely on the shoulders of the previous Government. This is an issue that was under your watch, back in 2023. As you said, these students were the cohort going through from 2022-23, and it will take a few years to work through the system. That's why one of the first things that I did when I came into this post was set up a graduate summit, in order to try and find options for as many of these young people as possible. Because here in Wales, different from England, they are streamlined, so a promise is made to them. So we need to try and honour that promise, and it's disappointing that we were left in a position where those promises were broken by the previous Government. So now we're trying to find a long-term solution for this. That's why we've asked Healthcare Inspectorate Wales to work with the health boards, to work with the representative bodies, to bring that plan together, and I expect to see a plan by the end of December—or early autumn, in fact.

Now, when it comes to the bursary scheme, once again, may I just remind you that this wasn't part of any negotiations that you brought forward or discussions that you brought forward for the supplementary budget, which you voted against as a party, in order to improve health outcomes in Wales. I am absolutely more than happy to discuss any options that you might have and consider their impact and assess how they might be included, but I just remind you that, as we have been informed by the Cabinet Minister for Finance, there are massive in-year pressures currently in the health service, and those pressures are only going to get worse as time goes on because of settlements coming down from London and the fact that we don't have a fair funding formula for Wales.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Welsh Conservatives spokesperson, Natasha Asghar.

Natasha Asghar (Conservative, Casnewydd Islwyn)

Thank you so much, Presiding Officer. Cabinet Minister, pancreatic is one of the deadliest cancers in the UK, affecting more than 500 people in Wales every single year. Eight in 10 people are diagnosed at a late stage, when it is often too late for treatment, and 50 per cent of people die within three months of diagnosis. In my own constituency, the one-year survival rate is 23 per cent alone. These shocking figures have been underpinned by a series of late diagnoses and ineffective treatment options, which has meant that only 25 per cent of those with pancreatic cancer will be treated within the Welsh Government's 62-day target.

Vague symptoms make pancreatic cancer incredibly difficult to detect, and 90 per cent of patients visit their GP multiple times before diagnosis. This is because there is currently no early detection test available. However, there is hope on the horizon, with the world's first breath test for pancreatic cancer being developed. This test is currently being trialled across the UK, including in Betsi Cadwaladr, Swansea and Cardiff, and the data so far is really promising. While this development could be game changing, there is still more that could and should be done by the Welsh Government.

Health boards across Wales must be provided with the funding and support that they need to deliver the national optimal pathway for pancreatic cancer, ensuring that everyone diagnosed receives the timely, high-quality care that they truly deserve. So, Cabinet Minister, I know you love to use those words ‘clinically led’. The evidence is right there. What plans does the Welsh Government have to improve care for those diagnosed with pancreatic cancer here in Wales?

Mabon ap Gwynfor (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

The Member is quite right that the targets reached when it comes to pancreatic cancer—in fact, most of the cancers, especially the rarest cancers in Wales—are not where they should be. As a country, we are seeing far too many people suffer from cancer and losing their lives too early, so we need to get to grips with this.

When you talk about the development with the breath test that you mentioned, which has been trialled, these developments—. There are a lot of things going on in the cancer space at the moment, and it's really exciting to see those developments happening here in Wales. They're not recognised enough. That's why I had conversations and meetings recently with our research and innovation departments within the Welsh NHS to see what more we can do, because we need to attract more clinical trials in Wales, and we need to attract more research here in Wales. So, we're working on that now so that Wales can become a world leader in that and then improve that optimal pathway, which we need to look at. And that will be a specific look in our cancer strategy. You'll have read the cancer strategy written statement that I issued today. Now, that has been welcomed by the Wales Cancer Alliance and we will be working with them and others in order to make sure that that cancer strategy is all-encompassing, is comprehensive and will answer those needs.

Natasha Asghar (Conservative, Casnewydd Islwyn)

Thanks for your response, Cabinet Minister. You clearly read my mind, because I am sticking with the theme of cancer and I did read the plan in depth and detail. So, Cabinet Minister, as we all know, pancreatic is one of the six less survivable cancers with lung, liver, brain, stomach and oes—. Oesophageal; I do apologise. These six less survivable cancers account for over 40 per cent of all cancer deaths, and people diagnosed with these cancers have a shockingly low life expectancy rate. The average one-year survival rate for a patient diagnosed with a less survivable cancer in Wales is just 39 per cent. This contrasts sharpy with the overall one-year survival rate for all cancers, which is just 70 per cent. Despite this, these cancers receive disproportionately low levels of research funding, contributing to a cycle of poor survival rates and limited treatment advances. The previous Government's pan-cancer approach did not adequately address the deep disparities faced by those diagnosed with less survivable cancers. Only 28 per cent of people with less survivable cancers are diagnosed at stage 1 or 2, compared with 52 per cent for all other cancers. This overwhelmingly late-stage diagnosis limits the potential for treatments that could significantly improve survival rates. Equity in cancer care means ensuring that all patients, regardless of their diagnosis, have an equal opportunity to survive.

Given the challenges for detection and treatment that are specific to these cancers, will the Cabinet Minister commit to including a chapter, or action plan at least, dedicated to less survivable cancers in the new cancer plan here in Wales?

Mabon ap Gwynfor (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Short and sweet: yes.

Vikki Howells (Labour, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

3. How does the Welsh Government intend to improve access to diagnostic and orthopaedic services in Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr? OQ64372

Mabon ap Gwynfor (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

I set out my priorities for NHS Wales on 2 June. This included reducing waiting times and improving access to services. To support this, I've set up an expert panel on the development of surgical hubs and am commissioning an independent review of performance. We have allocated an additional £145 million to support improvements.

Vikki Howells (Labour, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

Diolch, Minister. I've been really supportive of the exciting plans for the Llantrisant Health Park, a cross-health-board initiative developed and funded under the last Welsh Labour Government, with over £200 million invested to date. This surgical hub will expand capacity, reduce waiting times and improve patient experience across south-east Wales, including for my constituents in Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr. The first phase of the scheme, which is expected to be delivered next year, will see the creation of that state-of-the-art community diagnostic hub, followed later by orthopaedic surgeries. Improving access to diagnostic and orthopaedic services through investment and collaboration was a priority for the last Welsh Labour Government, so I'd like to ask if these are priorities for you too.

Mabon ap Gwynfor (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

It might well have been a priority for the last Government. I doubt whether it's a priority for your party right now because you voted against the supplementary budget, which offered £145 million to develop diagnostic hubs and elective care hubs across Wales. But, yes, it is a priority.

David Hughes (Reform UK, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

Cabinet Minister, patients in Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr continue to face unacceptable long waits for diagnostic tests and orthopaedic treatment. Can the Cabinet Minister outline the specific actions and investment the Welsh Government is providing to support Cwm Taf Morgannwg University Health Board in reducing waiting times? And when can patients expect to see measurable improvements in access to care?

Mabon ap Gwynfor (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Thank you for that. As was mentioned in the previous question, we are looking forward to the development of the Llantrisant Health Park, which will improve outcomes for the people in your area.

Mike Hedges (Labour, Gŵyr Abertawe)

4. Will the Cabinet Minister make a statement on vacancy planning in the health service? OQ64368

Mabon ap Gwynfor (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Identifying and planning for future workforce gaps is a core part of effective workforce planning. We're working with health boards, trusts and Health Education and Improvement Wales to strengthen forecasting, enhance workforce intelligence and better align education, training, recruitment and funded posts. This will support safe services now and a sustainable NHS workforce for the future.

Mike Hedges (Labour, Gŵyr Abertawe)

I only wish that was true. There are no NHS jobs for three in 10 nurses graduating in Wales this summer. No-one has told me the wards have too many nurses; many have told me that the wards they have been treated on or visited patients needed more nurses. Student nurses have said they've felt let down, worried and angry after years of unpaid work in the NHS during training and taking out large loans to qualify. Will the health Minister provide, as requested by the Royal College of Nursing, a jobs guarantee for nursing graduates? And you'll want to know where the money is coming from: there's £247 million unallocated, and we only wanted £100 million of that for additional learning needs.

Mabon ap Gwynfor (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

The Member will be aware that—[Interruption.] The Member will be aware that we have a streamlining process in Wales, which is meant to ensure that they have jobs, that nurses and midwives and others have jobs when they finish their graduation. Unfortunately, because of the previous Government's failure to honour this, many nurses, midwives and paramedics in Wales today can't find those jobs, that's why we set up the graduate summit. So, I won't exercise that answer again; I've answered it once already, so forgive me if I don't go any further down that line.

Gwyn Williams (Plaid Cymru, Gŵyr Abertawe)

I'm sorry to be a type of Job's comforter, as my dear mother would say, but I'm going to add to your woes—your already considerable pile of woes—sorry. The situation isn't just nurses and midwives, but it actually involves medical trainees as well, speaking, again, from an ophthalmic perspective, which takes seven to 10 years of training in blood, sweat, tears and vitreous, as well as the actual cost of it as well. And we lose a third of our trainees to England because there's a lack of centralised planning for consultant vacancies for when people leave the system. So, then what we end up with in Wales is—and we already have the lowest number of specialist consultant ophthalmologists in Britain per head—we recruit from abroad to fill up the gaps. Whereas if only we could have a centralised authority to match trainees with their jobs, we would solve the problem. So, do you agree that you need central planning on a specialty basis to stop the brain drain from our country?

Mabon ap Gwynfor (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

The Member is absolutely right that, in the ophthalmic field, as in many other fields in health and care, in fact, we have many vacancies. The truth is that the system as it is, the one that we found when we got into position, doesn't record fully the whole workforce that we've got in Wales. So, some of the gaps that we've got, we are dependent on other bodies to inform us of their best-case situation.

So, we have to rectify this and make sure that we know the current situation and, moving forward, know what we will need. That's why we've set up two plans. First of all, a clinical plan for Wales so that we understand what the clinical needs of Wales are moving forward, and sitting beneath that clinical plan, we will have, and are developing now, the full comprehensive workforce plan—and I've mentioned this in this Chamber before—where I will be producing the first high-level part of that workforce plan and bringing it forward to the Senedd in the autumn.

Francesca O'Brien (Reform UK, Gŵyr Abertawe)

Minister, Swansea Bay University Health Board has recruited over 450 nurses from overseas in recent years. At the very same time, nurses graduating from Swansea University, who have completed thousands of hours of unpaid clinical training here in Wales, are unable to find employment within the Welsh NHS. We are training our own and then turning them away while recruiting from abroad to fill the gap. That cannot be sound workforce planning. So, Minister, why is the Welsh Government content to see Welsh graduates locked out of jobs while relying on overseas recruitment? Would it not be better to employ the nurses and midwives we have already trained here in Wales?

Mabon ap Gwynfor (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

This is slightly frustrating, because you're talking about two different things there that are going on. So, the situation with graduates, that goes back to 2022-23 and it will take a few years to work through the system. So, that's why we're finding an issue with the graduates now, because they started on their courses in 2022 when there were vacancies in the system, and the mapping and the modelling suggested that there would be vacancies in the system, but retention has improved because of the economic situation that the country finds itself in, which means that those positions are no longer available. So, that's dating back to 2022, when we did have those vacancies.

And the issue with having Indian nurses—. And once again, you're going on about Indian nurses, let's make sure that we show gratitude for the work of the nurses that come into this country, who treat your loved ones, my loved ones; they are there working, treating people who are sick, making sure that our loved ones improve. They've been recruited over the last few years before this year's graduate issue was recognised as a problem, which is a problem that lies with the previous Government.

So, yes, that's why we had a graduate summit, in order to make sure that this doesn't happen again. And, as and when we need to recruit more nurses, and if those nurses aren't available in Wales, absolutely, if those nurses want to come and work with us here in Wales from India, then we will welcome them, because they are helping us out here in Wales. The same as we have a number of Nigerian and Filipino nurses and carers working in the system, helping our loved ones, and we should show gratitude for the work that they do.

Paul Rock (Green, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

Low staffing numbers increase the length of waiting lists across many NHS services, but expectant mothers cannot join waiting lists, because babies don't wait. The Royal College of Midwives tell me that we now have unsafe staffing levels in maternity services across Wales. The impact of this situation is very serious. Not having a good birth experience is bad enough, but in some cases, it leads to medical complications. These complications can, of course, have a devastating effect on babies, their parents and, indeed, NHS staff. As well as the human impact, the costs to the NHS in treating conditions arising from birth complications and maternity cases are vast. I understand that a single maternity case typically costs £5 million. I understand also that to employ the 70 midwifery graduates who have not yet been offered jobs would cost less than £3.5 million. Not employing those midwives—

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

A question, Paul.

Paul Rock (Green, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

—feels like a false economy with an unjustifiable human impact. Will the Minister commit to placing all this year's midwifery graduates in jobs and making a plan to return midwifery services to a safe staffing level?

Mabon ap Gwynfor (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

The Member is absolutely right that we've seen a number of reports into maternity units and midwifery here in Wales that do highlight unsafe staffing levels and we have to get to grips with this. I'm glad that, for instance, recently, we've seen a new report by Audit Wales into Swansea bay show a significant improvement there, and that's to be welcomed. That's what we want to see, more improvement in those fields.

Once again, for fear of repeating myself, I'll say that the issues that we have with graduates this year lies with the fact that they started on their courses back in 2022 and it's a legacy of the previous Government we are now having to deal with. That is why I got that graduate summit together in order to bring together the RCM, HEIW and the health boards to try and find as many positions available as possible for those students, to make sure that those students who aren't midwives now do become full midwives when the time allows and when positions allow, and that we ensure that this doesn't happen again in the future.

Benjamin McKenna (Reform UK, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

5. What action is the Welsh Government taking to protect the continued availability of community beds in the Welsh NHS? OQ64403

Mabon ap Gwynfor (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Health boards are responsible for the planning and delivery of health services at a local level to meet the needs of their local population, working with their key stakeholders and partners.

Benjamin McKenna (Reform UK, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Residents in my constituency are deeply concerned about the future of Maesteg Community Hospital. Cwm Taf Morgannwg University Health Board has proposals for a new health and well-being centre that mean that services will be relocated from Maesteg, but the health board has confirmed that the new site will not house any community beds at the premises. Meanwhile, the health board says it has made no decisions regarding the future of the Maesteg Community Hospital site, effectively leaving both it and residents in the area in limbo, causing a great deal of distress. Will the Minister agree to meet with Cwm Taf Morgannwg health board to discuss how the continued availability of community beds in Maesteg can be protected? Diolch.

Mabon ap Gwynfor (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

I understand the strength of feeling around the Maesteg Community Hospital. I expect any service change to be developed transparently with local people in line with national guidance and underpinned by robust evidence, options appraisals and impact assessments. I'm clear that services must be safe, sustainable and fit for purpose for the local population. In its preferred option for the development of a new health and well-being centre, the health board has highlighted that there will be an increased level and increased range of services available from the new proposed site. This is in addition to closer transport links with a bus stop and railway station in close proximity.

The health board has also committed to undertake further collaborative work on the Maesteg hospital building to ensure it is not lost. I understand that the board has requested an engagement plan on this to be presented at the July board meeting this month, in addition to an update on the plan for community beds within the Bridgend council area, and I have already met with the chair of Cwm Taf health board in order to discuss these.

Sera Evans (Plaid Cymru, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Gweinidog, in the case of Maesteg hospital that my colleague has referenced, Llais highlighted the strength of feeling locally about retaining community bed capacity, and, indeed, you've just referenced that strength of feeling. They also emphasised the importance of continued engagement with residents as proposals develop. There remains considerable worry locally about how alternative community provision, including step-down and respite care, will be delivered in practice.

I was grateful for your response earlier this month to a letter from myself and my fellow Plaid Cymru colleagues representing Afan Ogwr Rhondda, following the health board's decision to proceed with these proposals. In your reply, you noted that the Welsh Government officials would continue to engage with the health board as this work progresses. With that in mind, could you outline, please, what assurances the Welsh Government is seeking from Cwm Taf Morgannwg University Health Board to ensure that any changes to community bed provision are supported by robust evidence, with solid working assumptions and meaningful engagement with local communities before any existing capacity is lost? Diolch.

Mabon ap Gwynfor (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Thank you for that question, and it reflects the strength of feeling in the Llynfi valley and other parts that are being served by the Maesteg hospital. And I understand that there are concerns around it; that's why I had that conversation with the chair of the health board in order to raise those concerns, concerns which have been raised in this Chamber, which I raised with the chair, making sure that they understood that that continued engagement is absolutely crucial, that they take on board the views of the residents, that we do get assurances that any decisions made are made by clinicians and are clinically led, and consider the distances of travel and the difficulty for some people to access some services in the area. So, we have to make sure, and health boards, especially when they present plans, have to make sure that these things are considered in the round and to the fullest possible extent in order to come to a decision.

Jane Dodds (Liberal Democrat, Brycheiniog Tawe Nedd)

Prynhawn da, Weinidog. The issue of community beds in our communities and our local areas is really important, as you'll know, and I just wanted to focus in on Powys. I know we've had a discussion about this, but you'll know that there was a leak recently that Powys Teaching Health Board is considering stripping in-patient beds from eight out of our 10 community hospitals. That means that we will lose them from Ystradgynlais, Llandrindod, Builth, Knighton, Bronllys, Welshpool, Llanidloes and Machynlleth. That's up to 146 beds gone in a county with no district general hospital, where the population is older, more rural and further from alternative care than anywhere else in the country. We already know, don't we, that hospital stays in Powys average 40 days against the nationally agreed ambition of getting that down to 21.

So, Cabinet Minister, I realise these plans are not confirmed as yet, but could I just ask for your views on these potential plans? And also, would you consider intervening, as did your equivalent in 2013 in Hywel Dda health board, when there was concern about a similar issue? Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Mabon ap Gwynfor (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

The health board has not yet made any decisions on its clinical services plan or any options for potential public consultation later this year, as this work remains under development. As part of the clinical services plan development process, the health board has been undertaking wider initial engagement across Powys over the last year, to help understand the strengths and weaknesses of current service provision and help inform and develop a future vision, potential models of care and options for change.

The clinical services plan will be a vital plan in delivering new ways of working that address critical service fragilities, ensuring services remain safe, sustainable, accessible and of high quality, which will have to be supported by evidence. The Welsh Government expects any service change to be developed transparently with local people in line with national guidance and underpinned by robust evidence, options appraisals and impact assessments to ensure services remain safe, sustainable and fit for purpose.

Sara Crowley (Plaid Cymru, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

6. What support is Welsh Government providing to help parents return to work following a diagnosis of a serious health condition for a child? OQ64398

Mabon ap Gwynfor (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Thank you for the question. We know that parents in this situation often face multiple and interconnected barriers to returning to work. Our Communities for Work Plus programme provides a one-to-one mentor to help parents to access a package of support and links into local networks, to address both employment needs and wider family circumstances.

Sara Crowley (Plaid Cymru, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

Diolch, Weinidog. Last week, I met with Cardiff and Vale University Health Board, and I want to declare an interest: I have worked with this health board before when I worked at NHS Wales Performance and Improvement. So, last week, I met with Cardiff and Vale University Health Board's paediatric team to discuss the socioeconomic impact of a type 1 diabetes diagnosis in children and young people. I met with Ansruta Vijay Anand and Dr Ambika Shetty, and I'm very grateful for the work that they have both done in this area. Ansruta is a medical student, and she spoke to me about her research. Her findings were striking. In 68 per cent of cases where a child was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes, there was a change to a parent's employment. This included reduced working hours, taking temporary leave from work and in some cases leaving employment altogether. And while this is recent research, I know that that anecdotally goes back decades as being other people's experiences as well. They also found that many children experience a significant delay in returning to school, nursery or other childcare settings following their diagnosis. Over the past decade, the number of children diagnosed with diabetes has increased by 29 per cent—

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

A question, please.

Sara Crowley (Plaid Cymru, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

Given this evidence, what work is the Welsh Government undertaking to support families following a child's diagnosis of type 1 diabetes? And can I thank every person who works in the NHS, regardless of where they were born, for the work that they do for us? Diolch yn fawr.

Mabon ap Gwynfor (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

I'd like to echo those sentiments put forward by the Member and thank the Member for bringing this to my attention. I welcome the research of Cardiff and Vale University Health Board on this issue. Clearly, the findings are sobering and shed new light on the insidious interrelationship between poor health and socioeconomics. We often talk about the social determinants of health and how they contribute to inequalities in health outcomes, but this study underlines that this dynamic can work both ways, whereby health conditions can, in and of themselves, lead to a deterioration in socioeconomic circumstances.

We are committed to getting to grips with health-based inequalities. The Member will be aware that there is a first 100 days action on reviewing health-based inequalities in Wales, and I look forward to updating the Chamber on the findings. In the meantime, while the NHS does provide support packages to help families deal with a diagnosis and learn to manage their condition, including regular out-patient care by specialists, education programmes and technological solutions to reduce the burden of delivering insulin and monitoring glucose control, the evidence from the CVUHB research clearly shows that we must go further to strengthen these support mechanisms. I would welcome further engagement with both the Member and the researchers to understand how we can use these findings to learn, adapt and improve.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

And finally, question 7, Louise Emery.

Louise Emery (Reform UK, Clwyd)

7. What action is the Welsh Government taking to ensure NHS Wales uses existing technology to speed up access to patient consultations and associated services? OQ64423

Mabon ap Gwynfor (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

The Welsh Government is working with NHS Wales to make the most of existing technology to improve access to care. This includes strengthening the NHS Wales app, supporting virtual appointments and making use of ambient voice technology. Health boards and trusts are held to account on their performance to deliver patient outcomes and are expected to use existing technology as an enabler.

Louise Emery (Reform UK, Clwyd)

That's great to hear, because obviously face-to-face initial consultations are still vital for most people, but for those who have got long-term conditions or those who are working full time or have transport issues, online consultations are really going to work. We've referred to Betsi Cadwaladr. They did a trial of Attend Anywhere. There were five patients in 2020—five patients in five years, and they haven't told the public a single thing about how this technology is performing in north Wales. So, I agree with your sentiment that we know it's a vital part of services for the NHS, but in Betsi Cadwaladr, could you please tell me what is going on in terms of how they're using Attend Anywhere and other technology to help my constituents?

Mabon ap Gwynfor (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

I thank the Member for bringing this to my attention. It seems to be another case of one of the pieces of best practice that we have in parts of health boards across Wales that just isn't realised or isn't shared, or sits on a shelf somewhere. We need to learn from any piece of good practice out there and ensure that it's rolled out. So, I will raise this with the health board. I'm happy to keep you in the loop on any response I get back, because if it's good and it works, then we need to ensure that others benefit from it.

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Thank you very much, Minister.

2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

We'll move on now to questions to the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning. The first question is from Stephen Senior.

Stephen Senior (Reform UK, Sir Fynwy Torfaen)

1. What action is the Welsh Government taking to ensure that local government pension schemes are free to invest in key British defence and energy companies? OQ64395

Siân Gwenllian (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Thank you very much, and good afternoon, all. The UK Government is responsible for legislation and guidance on the local government pension scheme, including in relation to investments. The administering authorities and the Wales Pension Partnership are responsible for decisions on how this money is invested in Wales.

Stephen Senior (Reform UK, Sir Fynwy Torfaen)

Minister, whilst public sector pensions are not devolved, you know that the Welsh Government is responsible for oversight of local government and the £25 billion pot that is in the Welsh local government pension scheme. In recent years, there's been huge pressure from both elected members and pressure groups to divest from arms companies, from energy companies and from the banking system. Cabinet Minister, it was reported, just before the election in May, that you recently supported the Senedd Palestine pledge, which was produced by the Palestine Solidarity Campaign. That's a group connected with the Palestinian news agency, which I remind Members used to be part of the Palestine Liberation Organization, and also Stop the War, the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament and Extinction Rebellion. So, it's got a long history of various different groups. Three of your Cabinet Ministers supported that. Minister, now you've transitioned from being a campaigner to being in Government, can you give an assurance that the Welsh Government will exert no pressure on those local government pension schemes to divest from those key defence and energy companies, which we need in this great country of ours?

Siân Gwenllian (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

The fact that I'm now a Minister in Government doesn't change my values at all. I continue to be a campaigner as well as a Minister in the Welsh Government, and I'm sure that other members of the Cabinet agree with that.

There is a place for pension funds in Wales to invest responsibly and locally. Of course, although, as you note, we don't have direct responsibility over pension funds, there are discussions that happen, and we do encourage pension authorities to invest responsibly and ethically, so that public sector pensions contribute positively to the future of Wales—economically, socially and environmentally.

One excellent use of pension funds is investing in the social housing stock, and you know that I'm campaigning for more social housing. I understand that the city and county of Swansea pension fund has just created a fund worth £51 million that will invest in social housing on a local level. I'm very supportive of that step.

The Wales Pension Partnership is responsible for explaining how they will invest. That doesn't mean not investing in the defence industry, for example, but it does mean not investing in companies that produce controversial arms. So, already there is an ethical framework for the Wales Pension Partnership.

Sarah Rees (Plaid Cymru, Pen-y-bont Bro Morgannwg)

As you've explained, Welsh pension funds hold huge potential to be a force for good and drive moral and ethical investment. Another example would be the Norwegian wealth fund. But too often we hear that our pension funds are used to support the arms industry, fossil fuels or other get-rich-quick schemes that operate at the cost of the planet or contribute to the kind of human suffering that we've seen in Gaza, Lebanon and elsewhere. So, I'd like to ask what steps the Government will take to make sure that Welsh pension funds are invested ethically and deliver strong returns for pension holders whilst also supporting the well-being of our communities here in Wales and without profiting from harm done to others across the world. Diolch.

Siân Gwenllian (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Thank you very much. Of course, the pension funds do need to invest in a way that is robust and safeguards those people who will benefit directly from those funds, but I do believe that we want to see responsible and ethical investment by pension authorities, so that public sector pensions do contribute in a positive way to the future of Wales, economically, socially and environmentally. Having passed the UK Pension Schemes Act 2026 earlier this year, the pension authority and the Welsh fund will agree on investment strategies over the next few months. So, those strategies haven't yet been defined in detail as of yet, but I do look forward to having discussions with them in line with this Government's values.

Paul Rock (Green, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

This question reminds me, in a slightly odd way, of the days when many of us were fighting to convince our pension schemes—in my case the Universities Superannuation Scheme—to divest from fossil fuels, landmines, cluster bombs and tobacco. It's quite the converse of that fight. From time to time, a public sector pension executive would sidle up to me and quietly remind me that the best return on investment could be achieved from the lucrative international tobacco market, selling cigarettes to children in countries with less regulation than we have here in Wales. We pushed our pension schemes to invest positively in things like renewable energy and social housing, and the returns were good. Does the Minister agree with me that making positive, sustainable choices for our pensions is not only the moral thing to do, but it yields great, long-term returns for our pensions, returns that do not depend on global instability or risk stranded fossil fuel assets?

Siân Gwenllian (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Thank you very much. Yes, I do agree with you. That is why I'm eager to work with the Wales Pension Partnership to consider what further steps we can take together to strengthen the contribution of local government pension funds to Wales and to the kinds of investment that we want to see within our own country.

I'm talking specifically here of homes again, because I do think that social housing is one of those issues that you're referring to, which is not only the right thing to do, because we want to accelerate the process of providing more social homes, but there is also a consistent income flow coming in through rent from social housing. Therefore, it makes sense in general terms too for this investment here in Wales. I'm very pleased to hear that contribution from you supporting what we're doing within Government.

Claire Johnson-Wood (Reform UK, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

2. How is the Welsh Government regenerating town centres in Gwynedd Maldwyn? OQ64419

Siân Gwenllian (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Thank you very much for the question. The town centre taskforce that we're going to be announcing more about quite soon will address the structural challenges facing town centres, including looking at business rates and planning reform, and by working collaboratively with partners and maintaining a strong focus on delivery to help town centres adapt, attract investment and activity and thrive in the years ahead.

Claire Johnson-Wood (Reform UK, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Thank you for your answer, Minister. Given the range of issues and concerns that have been identified and brought to me, such as vacant and underused properties, no meaningful increase in footfall, and the need to support long-term private sector growth, alongside many other issues, it's essential that Members are provided with a comprehensive breakdown of how the Transforming Towns initiative money has been spent across Wales and how that is broken down by constituency or even by local authority area. As of last Thursday, this information was not currently available. Can you please tell us when you intend to publish this information so that Members can ensure that this money has been well spent?

Siân Gwenllian (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Thank you very much. I can tell you this afternoon that Powys has benefited from more than £12.9 million in regeneration funding from the Welsh Government since 2021. This is under a previous administration, of course. This fund has been developing over the years. So, I am pleased to be able to announce that there is £12.9 million in Powys, including in Llandrindod, which is close to where you live, I believe, where support has been given to enable the restoration of a historic building, Auto Palace, creating a new business centre in the centre of town. In Newtown, I recently visited Hafan yr Afon, an important development that is transforming that part of the town. That has been supported with £1.1 million of funding. That building has been created, by the way, using the passive house approach, which is the most energy-efficient standard for building in the world, and that's happened in Newtown using some money from this fund. So, the information is there, and I'm sure that we can provide you with the full picture in each local authority too.

Elwyn Vaughan (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

I was delighted to hear yesterday of the Government's commitment to introduce the community right to buy. There are good examples of market towns that succeed in creating energy and activity, through a number of indigenous businesses rooted there. In my own constituency, there are a number of examples in Machynlleth of community groups buying community assets, such as churches and pubs and so on, and keeping them going for the benefit of the community and the local economy. Can the Cabinet Minister make a statement on community right to buy? Thank you.

Siân Gwenllian (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Thank you very much for the question and I was very pleased to see that this announcement was part of the announcement on the Government's legislative programme. We are clearly committed to introducing a Bill on community right to buy and that will be a priority for us in the next few months now.

I am very aware of a great number of community groups that are keen to buy and to procure buildings that become empty in their communities, in order to turn them into assets that are of use to the community, to bring life to the community and to the high street quite often as well. I am very aware as well that there are barriers quite often to doing this, and sometimes they lose the opportunity to buy an asset and to transform it for community use. So, I do hope that we all will be able to agree on new legislation that will empower community groups, so that they can identify, in the first place, assets that are in their community that they might want to buy for the future, that we create a register identifying all of those, and that then, when they do come on the market, they get first offer on those properties, and then have an opportunity to make a business case and to continue with the process. That is not happening at the moment and opportunities are being missed.

I do intend to arrange a series of workshops over the summer now with partners, with communities, in order for us to have more detail in terms of this new legislation. I encourage you all to take part in that and encourage community groups in your constituencies to be part of this new important legislation.

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Thank you. I now call on the party spokespeople to question the Cabinet Minister. Reform UK spokesperson, Francesca O'Brien.

Francesca O'Brien (Reform UK, Gŵyr Abertawe)

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Minister, England's Building Safety Act 2022 provided leaseholders with remediation orders and cost protection since 2022. Wales has only now delivered those same powers through the 2026 Act, and secondary legislation remains out to consultation until September—four years behind England, with only four out of 161 buildings being fully remediated. Given that England ran this exact same consultation process first, is the Welsh Government using the evidence and models already established to assess what's needed here and finally speed up the process?

Siân Gwenllian (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

The new legislation that I was involved in drawing up in the last Senedd is more far-reaching than the legislation in England, which came into force some years ago. We are consulting on new regulations. I pushed the previous administration to include the ability to do that. So, we are consulting on new regulations that will mean that those people living in buildings that haven't been remediated, or who are facing additional costs because their service charges have increased because of work that has to be done—those people will have a route to tribunal, once those new regulations are in place. Now, that is a significant step forward, and it's going to take a little time, a few months, before we bring those regulations into force. I hope that everyone will support—I'm sure that you will support—those regulations.

There are three aspects of this in reality, aren't there? There is the new legislation in Wales, but there is also the remediation work, which is extremely slow in happening; it is extremely slow—we accept that. I have invited the companies that are continuing with this work to meet with me next month, where they will get a very clear message that this Government insists that that remediation work should be accelerated, and that the pace should go up.

Francesca O'Brien (Reform UK, Gŵyr Abertawe)

Thank you, Minister. I believe you met with the Welsh Cladiators recently, so thank you for that. I'm sure that legislation does take time, but people are living in unsafe buildings, so I urge you to put pressure on those in the coming weeks. So, thank you for your answer to that.

I'd like to turn to housing. I note your statement on Monday confirmed your commitment, or reconfirmed your commitment, to create 20,000 social homes. Another statement, though, without an annual target means there is no way to measure your Government's performance. But, of course, housing is a question of supply and demand. There is a severe lack of accountability and transparency on who is actually living in our council and social housing. Data in England shows that significant amounts of housing are being allocated to people who are foreign nationals. So, Minister, will you commit your department to collect accurate nationality data from councils and housing associations so the people of Wales can know who will be living in these houses that taxpayers are subsidising?

Siân Gwenllian (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Thank you very much. To return to your point on the Cladiators, yes, I had a very constructive meeting with them on Monday. I was delighted to meet with them and to hear their concerns directly from them.

I made a written statement on Monday that confirmed the 20,000 social homes that are desperately needed in Wales, for everyone living in Wales. The way that social housing is allocated is a matter for local authorities. Local authorities have a housing register and homes are allocated according to need, and that's how it should be too. Therefore, I look forward to the work now of supplying more social homes. That's what's at the heart of the problem; the core of the housing crisis in Wales is that we don't have enough social homes. The supply isn't adequate to meet demand, and that is where we should be focusing our efforts always.

Francesca O'Brien (Reform UK, Gŵyr Abertawe)

Thank you, Minister, for your answer. So, I take that as a 'no', but, don't panic, I thought that would be the reason, or the answer. But my team and I have been hard at work collecting this data from councils. We take Cardiff Council as an example; I'm sure our friend in the corner there will be listening with interest to this. The figures I've obtained under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 are shocking. I have them right here, and they will be made public as we speak.

So, let's look at the council's social housing stock of over 14,000 homes, where nationality is actually recorded. More than 31 per cent of lead tenants are foreign nationals. On the waiting list of over 9,000 properties, non-British applicants are 22 per cent of those recorded. And of the new tenancies handed out last year, almost 30 per cent of recorded allocations went to non-British applicants. Meanwhile, 35 per cent of those in temporary accommodation are foreign nationals, where the data is actually recorded. This equates to thousands of foreign national households in one city, which is being subsidised.

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

A question, please.

Francesca O'Brien (Reform UK, Gŵyr Abertawe)

But here is the real scandal, that, of the 14,000 homes, the nationality—

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Can I have a question, please?

Francesca O'Brien (Reform UK, Gŵyr Abertawe)

Yes, I'm coming to it, thank you.

The nationality of 11,000 tenants, a whopping 70 per cent, is simply not recorded.

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Francesca, please can I have a question?

Francesca O'Brien (Reform UK, Gŵyr Abertawe)

So, will the Minister—? Instead of providing homes for nationalities, let's do for the people of Wales—

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

A question, please.

Francesca O'Brien (Reform UK, Gŵyr Abertawe)

Yes, absolutely. Will you commit to amending the allocation of housing and homelessness regulations, to restrict the eligibility and give preference to British applicants? And will you use your legal powers to set a standard compelling every registered social landlord in Wales to record and publish the nationality of applicants and tenants?

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Before you respond, Minister—if I ask for a question, I do expect to hear a question. I don't expect someone to go 45 seconds over time. Thank you. Minister.

Siân Gwenllian (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

I'm extremely disappointed with that question. Certainly, I don't know whether those statistics are accurate or not. But I am disappointed that you are insisting on pursuing this time and time again in this Chamber. As I said, the housing crisis has been created because of a shortage of social housing to meet demand. Everyone in Wales deserves a roof over their head and a safe place to live. So, I don't want to pursue this issue any further.

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Mike Hedges.

Mike Hedges (Labour, Gŵyr Abertawe)

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and I will be under a minute.

When we discussed the current budget during the last Senedd, there was widespread support from Plaid Cymru, including you, Minister, that local government has substantial pressures. We overcame the ludicrous idea of a former finance Minister that the consumer price index indicated local government inflation, as if the change in price of items such as hummus, alcohol-free beer, pet grooming, motor homes, dashboard cameras, sheets of wrapping paper and bottled premium lager affected the cost of running local government services.

It is my understanding that the areas of local government expenditure on additional learning needs, social services, including elderly care and childcare, homelessness and prevention services are causing pressure on council budgets. Minister, is that your understanding, or do you wish to change that list?

Siân Gwenllian (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Thank you very much. The final part of your question in terms of the great pressures facing local government is accurate, yes. You talk about ALN, you talk about social services, care services. Local government is under great pressure and has been cutting budgets for many years, and has had to cut budgets in some areas that are now under genuine pressure—planning, for example, and building regulations. Those services have reached a very difficult point, but, of course, they've done that in order to safeguard some of the services that support the most vulnerable people in our society. They haven't had a choice other than to do that, because of the austerity policies of the Conservatives across so many years, policies that have been emulated by the UK Labour Government as well.

Mike Hedges (Labour, Gŵyr Abertawe)

Thank you for that answer; it was longer than I expected. We have agreed there is an increasing demand for certain council services. There are also environmental health and trading standards—vital services that need to be supported. Things like food safety and trading standards protect consumers. Minister, how much extra money have you and fellow Ministers asked for from the finance Minister to meet this increased demand out of the £247 million unallocated?

Siân Gwenllian (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Well, you may remember that, in your budget as the Labour Government, Plaid Cymru did come to a position where we could abstain on that budget by negotiating, responsibly and maturely, £112.8 million, I believe, in additional funding for local government. That enabled your Government to pass a budget. It was very disappointing for me yesterday that that spirit of compromise and negotiation wasn't realised by your party. Plaid Cymru did bring a proposal worth £120 million over three years to the table, and that was rejected by Labour. That was for ALN, as you mentioned. You've decided that you don't want to go down that route.

For me, yesterday was a very sad day for Wales, where that spirit of trying to create some kind of collaboration for the benefit of the people of Wales—that got thrown out of the window yesterday, unfortunately. But I do hope that we can return to a situation where we put the people of Wales first in everything that we do.

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Welsh Conservatives' spokesperson, Peter Fox.

Peter Fox (Conservative, Sir Fynwy Torfaen)

Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Cabinet Minister, thank you for your statement on Monday. I was hopeful that a statement like that would have come to this Chamber for a deeper debate, so I'll use one of my questions on it. While the ambition to increase the supply of social housing is absolutely welcomed, your written statement confirms that acquired properties will count towards the 20,000 homes target, alongside new-build developments. Now, many people will hear this announcement and assume it means 20,000 newly built social homes. However, by including the acquisitions, the target appears to rely in part on existing properties already within Wales's housing stock, rather than wholly on the creation of new homes. Cabinet Minister, can you tell us how many of the 20,000 additional social homes you expect to be delivered through acquisitions and how many will be genuinely new-build properties?

Siân Gwenllian (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Thank you very much for that question and for an opportunity to explain some of what was contained within the written statement issued on Monday. You're exactly right, we want that target of 20,000 to include vacant properties above shops on our high streets, and this will be part of the work of the town centre taskforce, of course, and how we accelerate the process to allow more vacant properties to come into our housing stock.

I do emphasise that I think it's important to be entirely transparent and, therefore, I have said that only homes that will remain as social homes for communities and families will be counted as part of that 20,000 target. Now, what exactly the percentage will be between new builds and acquisitions in terms of vacant properties and so on, I can't give you an exact figure on that. But, also in that statement made on Monday, I have spoken of community-led housing and I would like to include housing that's created through community groups—through the community right to buy, for example—and that we also include those within the target because they do provide a solution that is in keeping with those communities in rural areas and where the Welsh language prospers.

Peter Fox (Conservative, Sir Fynwy Torfaen)

Thank you, Cabinet Minister. Very clearly, then, there needs to be quite a lot of data gathered so that we can ascertain just how many new houses we do need to build, and I hope that that work is ongoing. Turning back to town-centre regeneration, we know that town centres—and you'll agree—are the beating heart of our communities but continue to face those significant challenges. If we are to increase footfall, we need an environment in which businesses can thrive. Now, Cwmbran is a good example. It continues to demonstrate the importance of convenience for shoppers, with businesses there citing free parking as one of the factors behind strong visitor numbers. However, businesses across Wales continue to raise concerns about the high business costs, declining footfall, restrictive regulations and the difficulty of attracting customers back into the town centre. Now, regeneration isn't just about bringing new initiatives to the towns, but it's about preserving existing businesses and enabling them to survive. Cabinet Minister, working with the Cabinet Minister for Finance and through your town-centre task group, what specific measures are you prepared to consider or introduce to incentivise businesses to locate back in our town centres and help regenerate those struggling high streets?

Siân Gwenllian (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Thank you for that question and for your interest in this particular area. During this Government's first 100 days, we will be making a full announcement on the purpose of the new taskforce that we're currently establishing and its membership. Of course, it's the taskforce that will consider its specific remit, and I'm very eager for that to happen, rather than us, as a Government, setting out certain criteria. It's the people in that taskforce, in consultation with others, that will set the remit for that work. But I assume, having been involved in this sort of work for years, that looking at business rates and how we can make sustaining a shop in a town centre more attractive than being located in an out-of-town centre would be one area that they would look at, along with planning and how we can accelerate the process in order to convert vacant buildings in our town centres. But there's also this desire to look holistically at what public services can be brought into our town centres and how we can accelerate the planning process around that too. There's a great job of work to be done, but it's very exciting, and I look forward to working with the taskforce.

James Evans (Reform UK, Brycheiniog Tawe Nedd)

3. When will the Welsh Government update 'Planning Policy Wales'? OQ64366

Siân Gwenllian (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Thank you very much. 'Planning Policy Wales' is kept under continual review to ensure that it remains effective, relevant and responsive to emerging evidence. Officials are currently reviewing planning guidance, and they are doing so to identify which aspects may need to be updated in future to ensure that the planning framework reflects the priorities of this Welsh Government.

James Evans (Reform UK, Brycheiniog Tawe Nedd)

Thank you. One area that I could say that definitely needs updating is the way that the Welsh Government's energy policy is in planning policy, especially regarding 'Future Wales: the national plan 2040'. We all know that is outdated in regard to industrial-scale wind turbines and pylons across a vast part of rural mid and west Wales. We all know about the 220m turbines that are going to be erected if Bute Energy have their way. That would absolutely decimate my communities. But, in 'Future Wales', it doesn't actually take into consideration the current size of those turbines that are currently being proposed. It also doesn't take into consideration the low-frequency noise that they generate as well. So, I'm asking you, Minister: are you willing to put a moratorium on these large-scale industrial plans for rural mid and west Wales, because unless planning policy is updated, we are going to see something potentially approved that will have devastating long-term impacts on communities without having updated planning guidance to make an informed decision?

Siân Gwenllian (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Thank you for the question, and I'm pleased that we do agree that we need to look seriously at 'Future Wales', namely the national plan, the top-tier plan on developments in Wales. It's under that, of course, that 'Planning Policy Wales' lies. So, we need to do the work on that highest level around the national spatial strategy and to include in that the current priorities for growth, infrastructure and regional development and transport. So, it does have statutory status, and I'm very eager, as the work has started to look at that highest level, to then see what needs to be changed in terms of the planning policies, including energy policy, electrification and new electrical lines, and so forth. So, I can assure you that that work is happening.

Nick Carter (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

Diolch, Weinidog, for your commitment to championing a community-centred planning system and strengthening the voice of local people. Cymru is emerging as a significant location for data-centre development, with two designated UK Government AI growth zones. However, they have no dedicated use class and no mention in 'Planning Policy Wales', even though their scale and energy and water demands raise important questions for our environment and our planning system beyond their immediate locality. As you know, in my own constituency of Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf, a data centre is proposed in Llanrumney, replacing the Cardiff east park and ride, which serves the University Hospital of Wales, and this has given rise to a controversy beyond the immediate locality. The proposed 150 MW facility, only a short distance from primary schools and local homes, will rely on fossil-fuelled gas turbines as well as polluting standby diesel generators. Will the Minister, therefore, set out what plans the Government has to review the planning requirements for data centres, and in particular look into the Cardiff east park-and-ride application, so that communities like Llanrumney don't end up paying the social and environmental price while the profit goes elsewhere? Diolch.

Siân Gwenllian (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Thank you very much. Unfortunately, I can't comment on specific developments in specific constituencies. Welsh Ministers are responsible for making decisions in those areas, and who knows with this particular issue, so I can't talk about that specifically. But you do bring forward an important point about how our planning policies and our strategies look at issues relating to data centres, which bring us back to the point made by James Evans, namely the need to look again at the main national development framework, 'Future Wales'. We do need to reform that. This is one example of why, and so that work is happening. During our first 100 days, there will be a specific announcement about the process that needs to happen with that. There is a specific process; we can't just sit down and change it. We have to go through a process, and we will be making an announcement about that during the first 100 days.

Huw Thomas (Labour, Caerdydd Penarth)

Wales needs more houses. You've said that today, Minister, but we heard in the press over the weekend developers and housing associations saying that it can take between three and five years to secure planning consent.

Huw Thomas (Labour, Caerdydd Penarth)

As you update 'Planning Policy Wales', can you confirm your intention, therefore, to make the planning system more permissive so that we can build the homes Wales needs and, indeed, build the industrial developments that Wales needs? Will you make it more permissive, or will you continue to risk letting the not-in-my-backyard brigade stop developments and delay developments that have overwhelming public benefit?

Siân Gwenllian (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Thank you very much. I do agree with you that we do need to accelerate the planning process, particularly in the area of housing. It's not acceptable that it takes years sometimes for developments to bear fruit. So, it is my intention to announce during the first 100 days that we will be making a call for evidence for reform of the planning system in the area of housing specifically, so that we can try to get professional people—people like you who have been council leaders and who understand the planning barriers at the grass roots—to bring evidence forward so that we can proceed to reform 'Planning Policy Wales', and to make it more fit for purpose and more swift in response to the needs of our communities.

There were two Acts that were passed at the end of the last Senedd that bring planning policies together, and I do think that that in itself is going to help issues, but it doesn't go halfway far enough.

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Question 4 is online, Minister. Becca Martin.

Becca Martin (Plaid Cymru, Clwyd)

4. What steps is the Welsh Government taking to ensure that local government procurement supports Welsh businesses and maximises the economic benefits of public spending within Wales? OQ64389

Siân Gwenllian (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Thank you very much, and, again, this is an important question. This Government does want to go further than we currently go in this area, and to provide greater flexibility to local government to use procurement to support Welsh businesses and strengthen local supply chains. This isn't directly in my portfolio, but I have sought information about it. So, I hope I can respond to your supplementary question.

Becca Martin (Plaid Cymru, Clwyd)

Diolch, Minister. I've been approached by A.N. Richards, a well-established Welsh supplier based in Froncysyllte in my constituency, which has raised concerns about the increasing use of England-based procurement frameworks by Welsh local authorities, and the barriers steering procurement officers towards them. The company says the English procurement portal, used, in this case, for fleet purchasing, is more user friendly and efficient than its Welsh equivalent. As a result, procurement officers may be drawn towards England-based frameworks, creating a structural disadvantage for Welsh suppliers and undermining the Welsh Government's aim of maximising the economic benefit of public spending within Wales. What assessment has the Welsh Government made of the impact that the design and usability of Welsh procurement systems have on local authority procurement decisions? And what steps is it taking to improve Wales-based procurement routes and ensure more local authority spending is retained in the Welsh economy?

Siân Gwenllian (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Thank you very much for that supplementary question, and the relevant Minister has just walked into the Chamber. [Interruption.] Oh, it's you. Good. The finance Minister, rather, has heard your request, and, having sought information, I am given to understand that there will be a new procurement policy statement published to actually increase public expenditure in Wales. Things have improved, and there was the procurement Act 2023, passed in this Senedd, which has made it easier for SMEs to actually bid for opportunities, and for Business Wales, which provides tailored support for Welsh businesses to help them to expand, grow and strengthen, and to understand the complex procurement processes. But I do know that the Minister for finance is very eager, as am I, to go much further within our powers in this Senedd. So, thank you.

Claire Archibald (Reform UK, Ceredigion Penfro)

Thank you for that and obviously this will probably go to the financial Minister as well, so I'm going to carry on, as the Member just carried on. Small businesses are the backbone of our community in Wales, but many are effectively shut out of public sector contracts before the process has even begun. Large companies have dedicated teams to deal with procurement, legal requirements and lengthy tender documents. Small local businesses may have one person trying to do all of that while also running a day-to-day business. If the Welsh Government genuinely wants more public money to stay in Wales, it must make sure that local businesses have a fair chance to compete. So, my question is: what practical support will the Welsh Government provide to simplify the procurement process and help Welsh businesses bid successfully for local authority contracts? And will the Minister support publishing council-by-council figures showing how much public spending is awarded directly to Welsh businesses in respect of transparency? Diolch.

Siân Gwenllian (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Thank you very much for that question, and for your support too in increasing public procurement for local businesses. Now, we know that there is work to be done in this area—there are so many examples of where it isn't currently working. As I say, things have improved a little, but the pace of that improvement has been slow since the Social Partnership and Public Procurement (Wales) Act was passed in 2023. That legislation does place a duty on contracting authorities to improve economic, social, environmental and cultural well-being through procurement, including considering access for SMEs, and fair work is addressed in the legislation too.

But, of course, there is some way to go, as you say. I also hope that the new food strategy will address some of these issues, because local food production and creating local supply chains for the public sector again is a way of strengthening local businesses and the agricultural sector and so on. So, there are a number of different issues that can coalesce here, including, of course, the work that the national development body will do to support businesses so that they feel that they can access these contracts that are offered.

Laura Anne Jones (Reform UK, Sir Fynwy Torfaen)

5. What action is the Welsh Government taking to meet its social housing targets? OQ64420

Siân Gwenllian (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Thank you very much. We are already taking action through the social housing grant and the transitional accommodation capital programme. This will tackle homelessness, reduce reliance on temporary accommodation and ensure that people across Wales have access to quality homes that are energy efficient. We're also establishing Unnos to accelerate the delivery of social housing across Wales.

Laura Anne Jones (Reform UK, Sir Fynwy Torfaen)

Diolch, Minister. Following on from what our Reform spokesperson has already said, I would like to urge you further to have annual targets so that any progress on delivering those 20,000 social homes can be easily tracked. We all know that Rome wasn't built in a day, but we would like to know how many homes will be built in Wales in a year.

Minister, following alongside those aims to get people into social housing as soon as possible, I was wondering whether the pots of money currently given to registered social landlords to adapt old stock—current old stock—to meet the demand and needs of those on current waiting lists will continue.

Siân Gwenllian (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Thank you very much. I do understand the point about having annual targets, but often work can happen towards the end of the period. So, setting rigid annual targets, therefore, the same target every year, wouldn't reflect the reality of the situation, because it doesn't happen in a linear way. Often, the process starts and it accelerates towards the end of the period. But I will look to see how transparent—. I want to be transparent, and I want to provide you with as much information as possible. I'm going to be asking to have an operational role in some of the meetings that are happening with civil servants for me to understand exactly what's going on.

And in terms of the housing associations bringing old stock up to standard, there is another grant available for that, the optimised retrofit scheme, which is very successful in terms of improving the condition of our social housing. We need to accelerate that, and we also need to see the private sector stock progressing as well, so that the quality of our housing everywhere and across all tenacies improves.

Safa Elhassan (Plaid Cymru, Gŵyr Abertawe)

6. What progress has the Welsh Government made towards establishing a tenure-neutral retrofitting programme? OQ64397

Siân Gwenllian (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Thank you very much. That takes us on very neatly from that previous response, because progress is being made, and, certainly, in our manifesto, you will recall that establishing a tenure-neutral retrofit programme was a crucial part of that. So, I hope that that will lead to a supplementary question—I forget that there's a supplementary question.

Safa Elhassan (Plaid Cymru, Gŵyr Abertawe)

I warmly welcome the Welsh Government's commitment to a national home retrofitting programme. Good housing is good health. Better-insulated homes will not only reduce energy bills and carbon emissions, they also improve people's health and reduce pressure on the NHS. Public Health Wales estimates that tackling excess cold in Welsh homes alone can save the NHS more than £40 million a year. Living in cold, damp and mouldy homes also increases the risk of respiratory illnesses, particularly in children and older people. So, Cabinet Minister, can you outline how the Welsh Government's retrofitting programme will prioritise tackling damp, mould and excess cold in homes so that it improves public health, reduces pressure on the NHS and lowers energy bills for families across Wales?

Siân Gwenllian (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Thank you very much. There are a number of reasons why it's important that we improve the standard of our housing. One is to decarbonise so that we in Wales contribute less to climate change through our housing sector. Housing contributes around 11 per cent of carbon emissions in Wales, and I am very eager to see that reduced, and having a plan to decarbonise homes is very important. But there are benefits in terms of reducing bills as a result of making our homes more energy efficient—it's important that we consider that—and fuel poverty is also an issue in Wales, and it'll help us tackle poverty more generally. But also there is the impact on health, which is crucially important, and I am having discussions with the Deputy Minister in relation to preventative work, because, for me, housing is central to improving people's health, and we can improve health outcomes for our nation by having a clear focus on improving our housing standards. I will be going on Thursday to see—it's social housing—how retrofit programmes have helped a particular family there, and I'll be making further announcements on this specific area in our first 100 days.

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Thank you. And the last question, Minister, Anna Nicholl.

Anna Nicholl (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

7. Will the Cabinet Minister provide an update on the Government’s plans to review the funding formula for local government? OQ64400

Siân Gwenllian (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Thank you very much. I discussed this particular review of the funding formula with the finance sub-group on 8 July. The finance sub-group is the sub-group of the WLGA dealing with these issues.

Anna Nicholl (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Thank you. Ceredigion and Pembrokeshire are among the most rural authorities in Wales. People in rural Wales face higher living costs while often earning lower wages, and an ageing population is increasing the pressure on public services that are already under immense strain. For too long, rural councils have had to do more with less. The current funding formula does not reflect the true cost of delivering services across dispersed rural communities. Rural councils need a fair deal. Will the Cabinet Minister, therefore, commit to working in partnership with rural councils throughout this funding formula review?

Siân Gwenllian (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

I will. I will commit to work not only with the rural councils, but with councils across Wales—urban councils too, because I am entirely clear that this is work that should be undertaken collaboratively. As you mentioned, the rural aspect is important, but deprivation is also important, and there is, of course, deprivation in rural areas too.

Now, the purpose of the review is to decide whether change is needed, and, if we are to make changes, that that fairly reflects needs across Wales in different areas. The work has commenced, and, to date, the council leaders have been providing very constructive input to that work, and we will continue with that work. We will be commissioning an external review in order to ensure that the evidence is accurate and that the work is happening in a way that is transparent, and that everyone can understand what is happening. So, I look forward to seeing that bear fruit too. They will be looking at experiences in other countries—as well as focusing on Wales, they will look to see how distribution formulas work in different countries. Thank you.

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Thank you, Minister.

3. Topical Questions

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

We move on now to topical questions—Mair Rowlands.

Mair Rowlands (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

1. Will the Cabinet Minister make a statement on the wildfire in Sychnant Pass? TQ1484

Siân Gwenllian (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Thank you very much. The fire is under control now, thanks to the efforts of the North Wales Fire and Rescue Service and all of the partners. This reminds us of the climate change threat and the need for all public services to adapt to that.

Mair Rowlands (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

Thank you, Minister. The frightening sights that we saw on Conwy mountain over the weekend have not only had a direct impact on residents, communities, farmers, local businesses and nature, but they have also raised serious questions about the very real impact that climate change is having on the planet.

I'd like to start by placing on record once again my sincere thanks to the emergency services, the local authority and to nearby communities for their swift and determined response in the face of the crisis over recent days. Dirprwy Lywydd, as I mentioned in the Chamber yesterday, I'm pleased that the worst of the crisis is now behind us. However, many of my constituents are still asking questions about what the response will be to the damage and challenges posed by this wildfire. I would appreciate, therefore, if the Cabinet Minister could provide further details on how the Welsh Government will co-ordinate efforts with local stakeholders to start the work of restoring the 200 acres of agricultural and forestry land that was destroyed. I'd also like to know if measures will be put in place to safeguard residents who have respiratory problems as a result of the damage done to air quality in the local area.

And finally, the events of the weekend will have certainly been a blow to farmers and local businesses. I would appreciate it, therefore, if the Minister could tell us of any support that may be available to support them. And as I said earlier, we should all in this Chamber be concerned about what the events on the Conwy mountain, as well as similar incidents at Braichmelyn forest in Bethesda, tell us about the existential threat of climate change. I was pleased to hear the Trefnydd agree yesterday that we need a more comprehensive plan in place for such incidents in the future. I would appreciate, therefore, if the Cabinet Minister could expand on what measures the Welsh Government will put in place to prevent such incidents from becoming common across Wales, and to ensure that we are as well prepared as possible if these incidents do arise in future. Thank you.

Siân Gwenllian (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Thank you very much for bringing this issue forward before the Senedd. One thinks about the people who were affected by this fire. I can only imagine how frightened they must have been during that period when the flames were roaring on the mountain in Penmaenmawr, an area I've very familiar with. Thirty-six households had to flee their homes during the work of putting out the fire, but luckily they could return home on Monday evening. Conwy council provided temporary accommodation for those who needed it, so we are very grateful to Conwy council for their work and very grateful to Natural Resources Wales, and, of course, to the fire service. Fighting wildfires is very difficult and dangerous work, and we need to pay tribute to all the firefighters in north Wales and the partner agencies who responded so quickly to this event and kept communities and people safe.

You asked what support the Welsh Government can provide. Well, of course, we are working with local partners. The county council is in all likelihood the first port of call in terms of understanding the problems that may continue now because of what's happened, and also NRW in terms of restoring the land and any work that needs to happen on the nature side of things. But you're right, this is shocking and makes us realise the severity of the situation in terms of the climate, the nature emergency and climate emergency that we're facing here. I don't think anybody could start to deny that that's very real. Between these fires and this incredible heat that we've had, which is also affecting people in very negative ways, we genuinely have to tackle this crisis facing us in Wales.

John Clark (Reform UK, Bangor Conwy Môn)

Will the Welsh Government follow in the footsteps of the Scottish Government and develop a strategic action plan to address escalating wildfire threats in Wales?

Siân Gwenllian (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Thank you for your question, and I'm glad that—.

Siân Gwenllian (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

I am pleased that you, like me, are concerned about the growth in the number of wildfires, not only in your constituency but across the whole of Wales. The Cabinet, the Government, this week have been discussing our carbon plan as a Government, how we in Wales will contribute to the huge task of not only of tackling climate change, but also mitigating and adapting to it, as you've mentioned. I'm not sure exactly what Scotland has done, but we will certainly look at that.

Janet Finch-Saunders (Conservative, Bangor Conwy Môn)

Thank you, Mair, for putting your question in. We actually did table an emergency question ourselves, the Welsh Conservatives, first thing on Monday morning; somehow that seems to have been rejected. But I'm glad that you put one in as well. So, I would like to endorse all the thanks that have gone before me: North Wales Fire and Rescue Service, Conwy County Borough Council and other partner agencies. Their incredibly fast response saved considerably more acres.

I'd also like to pay tribute to local residents who evacuated quickly, but also did what they could to try and help. It could have been far more serious, though it was incredibly serious in itself. Our farmer, Gareth Wyn Jones, who had to go himself in searing heat to try and rescue pigs from up on the uplands. The impact that this fire has had on local residents who have been forced out of their homes, there have to be questions now, asking how we can support them, because it's a frightening experience. There were 36 homes evacuated, one family noting it was actually in their driveway, and 200 acres of land have been affected.

We all have to be cautious. I wonder whether some messaging could go out in terms of graphics or something. Do you know, you only need, these days, glass? If you're carrying clear glass on hot, dry grass, it can easily turn into a fire. Not a fully extinguished cigarette butt: we should not be having people, you know—. They can unintentionally spark a fire, leading to significant damage whilst also putting lives at risk.

It was a very, very resource-intensive, financial-resource-intensive operation for all those partner agencies. I suppose what I'm asking for is: will you put some resources forward now for the aftermath of this? Will you contact those partner agencies and see how your Government can financially support them? But we also need a strategic plan. I'm not a lover of strategic plans, but we need something in place, because this could happen again. We're only halfway through the summer; this could happen again and again, and I want to be sure that all those partner agencies and rescue services are not stuck for finance in any way, shape or form. Diolch.

Siân Gwenllian (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Thank you very much, Janet, and I do agree with you. That family there, where the fire was very close to their home, that was very frightening, wasn't it? It's too early to know at present what caused this specific fire on the mountain in Penmaenmawr. Usually these fires happen earlier in the year, don't they? They happen between March and May, but they're increasingly happening in the summer now, which is also an indication of the climate change that is happening. And you're right, I think that we do need to get that messaging out that people need to be very careful when using barbecues, when discarding cigarette butts and when leaving glass behind—glass can cause a fire when there is sunlight on it, and that can spread across the vegetation, which is very dry at this time of year, and we've had very little rain. So, as I said, we really do need to think about prioritising tackling climate change, and think about the mitigation measures and the adaptations that we need to undertake in all our lives. In terms of the support and financial support, Welsh Government officials will be talking to all the agencies now to see exactly where we can help and what exactly the implications of the fire are.

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Thank you, Minister. And the second question is from Lynne Neagle.

Lynne Neagle (Labour, Sir Fynwy Torfaen)

2. Will the Cabinet Minister make a statement on the Teachers' Pay Award 2026-27? TQ1485

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

I made a written statement on Monday, announcing my intention to consult after the summer holidays on a 3.5 per cent pay award for teachers and leaders, and a 5 per cent pay award for unqualified teachers. I will provide additional funding to support local authorities and schools with implementing the pay award.

Lynne Neagle (Labour, Sir Fynwy Torfaen)

Thank you. As you've indicated, you made that written statement on Monday, announcing that you would consult from September. This is later than stakeholders would like. As you're aware, there's previously been a commitment to consult ahead of the school holidays, so that teachers can receive their pay rise as soon as possible, although I do welcome your commitment to start the process earlier in future years.

As we discussed yesterday, the Welsh Government is now in a pay dispute with both school leadership unions in Wales, with pay as well as additional learning needs funding cited as the reasons for the dispute. It was really worrying to see the written statement issued immediately after the debate yesterday, saying there would be no money for ALN, even though the Welsh Government could allocate that money, as they are doing with their priorities. But it's crucial now that the Government gets around the table with trade unions in order to prevent industrial action in the autumn.

Can I ask the Cabinet Minister what steps you'll take to ensure that this dispute focused on pay and ALN is urgently resolved?

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

If I can take the point on the pay award timings first: yes, it would have been easier to consult at an earlier point. She may have noticed that there was an election. There was a period when these consultations could not have gone ahead, which is precisely why I made the announcement on the 3.5 per cent pay award for teachers and 5 per cent for unqualified teachers, because in representations to me, they said very clearly that an early indication—admitting the consultation would need now to happen in the autumn—early certainty, and an early certainty for local government that funding would be available to pay for these pay rises, was the desire of the workforce. That's why I made that statement at that point.

On ALN, I think that we are revisiting a conversation from yesterday. As my colleague said earlier on, we are very aware of the pressures in funding on both local government and on schools, and I have no doubt that those will be continuing conversations. On ALN specifically, what we set out to do, in conversation with you—and I thought that we were talking about the same thing, which was how to arrive at a sustainable model for ALN. For a number of years, it has been clear that that is not where we are. We are constantly told, by parents, families, schools and local authorities, that the current system is facing significant difficulty, and it was on that basis that we presented an argument for £40 million this year, £40 million next year and at least £40 million in the third year, in order to bring us to a point where we had a sustainable ALN system that we could be proud of. You voted against that yesterday.

On the trade dispute itself, I was obviously disappointed to receive a letter from the NAHT and the Association of School and College Leaders, entering into a trade dispute, given that we have been working together and I have been committed to the social partnership now and throughout my career. And I hope that we can move forward quickly to resolve these issues. I remain committed to the social partnership, and I'm currently considering the issues and the response.

Sera Evans (Plaid Cymru, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

I welcome the Gweinidog's acknowledgement that improving educational outcomes requires meaningful engagement with teachers, ensuring they feel supported, valued and listened to. It is somewhat ironic that when similar pay uplifts were offered to teachers in previous years, under previous Governments, they did not attract the same level of scrutiny. For too long, Wales has faced persistent challenges in retaining teachers. If we are serious about raising standards, we must work in genuine partnership with our education workforce. Teachers are central to our education system and should be able to focus on teaching and supporting learners, rather than being overwhelmed by unnecessary pressures. Therefore, Gweinidog, at a time when teachers face growing demands and expectations, how will the Welsh Government work with teachers, unions and local authorities to ensure that the profession is properly supported, teacher well-being is prioritised and schools can attract and retain the staff they need?

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

Diolch yn fawr, and I think she's quite right to point to the value we put on the teaching profession, and we are determined to work in partnership. I have existing relationships with teachers and school leaders across Wales, and I am in constant dialogue, formally and informally, with them, and we have a great deal that we want to do together around workload, around retaining and recruiting teachers, around the ideas we have on literacy and numeracy and clarity of expectation, looking at the curriculum. These are things that the teaching profession has welcomed, and it is a continuing dialogue that will touch on all the areas the Member mentioned. It will include the unions and as wide as possible an input from the people who deliver on the ground and who matter to us.

Catherine Cullen (Reform UK, Blaenau Gwent Caerffili Rhymni)

As a former teacher, I know first-hand the challenges facing our schools and the immense commitment shown by teachers and school leaders across Wales, and I'd like to thank Lynne Neagle for bringing forward this question. Of course, supporting teachers is vital, and fair pay is an important part of that, but we must also recognise that the pressures facing the profession go far beyond pay alone. There is workload, recruitment and retention, additional learning needs provision and the increasing demands placed on schools all requiring attention. I note that the NAHT, the school leaders' union, and the Association of School and College Leaders have now written to the education Minister, herself a former leader of the NAHT, to formally register a dispute with the Welsh Government over the pay settlement, alongside concerns with ALN funding. What makes this particularly significant is that neither union has previously been in a formal dispute with the Welsh Government; these are unprecedented circumstances. Therefore, can the Minister outline how the Welsh Government intends to rebuild consensus with these unions, resolve the issues that have led to this dispute, and what further action can be taken to support teachers and school leaders across Wales?

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

Thank you, and I'm sure the former Minister will be grateful for your support. On the trade dispute, I am anxious to resolve this as quickly as possible, as I said earlier on, and I remain committed to working in social partnership with them. I think there is ground that we can build on here and I am determined to resolve that matter as quickly as I can.

Sam Rowlands (Conservative, Fflint Wrecsam)

I'm grateful to Lynne Neagle for tabling this item here today. As you know, Cabinet Minister, schools across Wales are increasingly feeling overlooked and undervalued when it comes to funding. And, of course, you've already noted the serious challenges surrounding funding for additional learning needs, with many schools struggling to provide the support that learners deserve.

You've again mentioned the offer from the Welsh Government of that £40 million per year. But let's not forget that, last night, this Senedd rejected that as an option, because this Senedd believed that that was not enough to support ALN across Wales. And now we're seeing again a Welsh Government unwilling to meet the recommended pay award for teachers. It goes back to that point of them feeling overlooked and undervalued. Cabinet Minister, we cannot risk a strike in the autumn because of this situation.

I think that what's happening at the moment really sends the wrong message to a profession that's already feeling that immense pressure. Teachers, as already described by your Plaid Cymru colleague, are at the heart of our education system and there's a real risk of this general issue around funding affecting recruitment, retention and ultimately outcomes for our children and young people.

I'm particularly concerned about how school leaders are having to manage this situation at the moment, and I declare an interest as a school governor myself. School governing bodies are having to manage stretched budgets, and if schools are left to bridge the funding gap themselves, it's children who ultimately feel the impact of this. So, Cabinet Minister, can you explain what reassurance you can give headteachers and governing bodies that they won't have to choose between rewarding their staff fairly and appropriately and protecting the support and opportunities available to pupils?

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

Thank you. I think we have rehearsed the reasons why the ALN funding for this year will be difficult in this particular context, but I am committed to working with my colleague the finance Minister on building the sustainable ALN system that we committed to in our manifesto and that I know has support across Wales.

On schools funding more broadly, part of the announcement I made on Monday about the pay award was that we would provide local authorities with additional funding in order that that would not be an additional pressure on school budgets. But we remain committed too to making sure that school leaders and the wider school workforce do feel valued and consulted under this Government, and it is in that spirit that I propose to proceed.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Thank you, Minister.

4. 90-second Statements

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

We'll move now to item 4, the 90-second statements. The first is from Llŷr Powell.

Llŷr Powell (Reform UK, Blaenau Gwent Caerffili Rhymni)

Diolch, Lywydd. I was sad and shocked on the weekend to find out about the passing of the Rt Hon Ann Widdecombe. I'm not going to comment today on the circumstances, but will celebrate the person that she was.

Ann was the MP for Maidstone for 23 years. She served in Government, serving the country that she loved as Minister of State for employment and Minister of State for prisons. Ann became a Member of the European Parliament for South West England in 2019. Her words were that she was there to ensure that the largest democratic vote the United Kingdom has had is fulfilled, and she pushed it through. She became an unlikely national treasure through her appearances on Strictly Come Dancing. She was on Big Brother. She appeared in several pantomimes across the country during the seasons, and even appeared in a production at the Royal Opera House.

She was a dedicated campaigner for animal causes. Ann went against her own party and friends when she was outspoken in supporting the ban on fox hunting, claiming it was immoral not to do so. She stood up for animals like donkeys and their welfare. She fought for the end of the use of animals in circuses. Ann showed us that you could be a true Conservative, a 'small c' conservative, but you can also stand up for your principles, you can go against your party. In tributes, we've heard that Ann was a maverick; she was. She was fearless in debate, she was kind-hearted, she was true to her faith at all times.

I had the pleasure of meeting Ann in 2019. It was a friendship that I cherish more than anything. I walked the streets of Ebbw Vale with her, where I saw women leaving a hair salon and nail bar quickly to have a selfie with the Strictly Come Dancing star that was Ann Widdecombe. She looked perplexed at how she was a star—she just saw herself as Ann. That's the person I knew every time I met her. She's a loss to this country, to our party and to Britain as a whole. We on these benches, and, I hope, across the Chamber, will pay tribute to her family and to the person whom we will long miss. Rest in peace, Ann.

Zaynub Akbar (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

Following Thursday's Remembering Srebrenica commemoration, attended by Members across this Senedd, we pause to honour the victims and survivors of the Srebrenica genocide. This year's theme, 'We are here', reminds us that, while the genocide sought to erase a people, survivors continue with dignity, courage and strength, and their stories continue to educate and inspire future generations.

We remember the 8,372 Muslim men and boys murdered in the town of Srebrenica alone. We remember the more than 100,000 people murdered across Bosnia and Herzegovina. We remember the 2 million people forced from their homes. And we remember the more than 50,000 women who were the victims of genocidal rape between 1992 and 1995. Because we know that behind every number is a name, a life lost and a family changed forever.

We also recognise the vital work of Remembering Srebrenica Wales. Continued investment in education, including support for more school and college visits to Bosnia and Herzegovina, is essential to ensure future generations learn these lessons and help realise the ambitions of our 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan'. As His Majesty King Charles III said himself in his own words, by remembering the pain of the past and learning its lessons, we can together resolve that it must never happen again.

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

As we look forward to welcoming Eisteddfod y Garreg las to Llantood in Pembrokeshire, I'd like to extend a very warm welcome to this special festival. In two weeks' time, we will once again celebrate and take pride in our culture, our history and our local communities, which will be displayed on a national stage for the whole of Wales.

I would like to express my sincere appreciation to all the people, communities, organisations and local businesses that have come together to support this Eisteddfod. Their commitment and hard work has been a vital part of the success of the preparations. A target of £400,000 was set, and the communities of Pembrokeshire, south Ceredigion and west Carmarthenshire smashed that target, raising over £500,000—more money than any National Eisteddfod has ever raised, clear evidence of the strength of our communities and their support for the Welsh language and our culture.

It has also been a pleasure to see the celebrations that have highlighted the historical significance of this Eisteddfod, especially as we remember Lord Rhys, who held the first Eisteddfod in Cardigan castle 850 years ago. It is a privilege to be able to welcome the Eisteddfod back home to Ceredigion Penfro, and I'm looking forward to welcoming all Members of the Senedd to the maes during the first week of August. Thank you.

Huw Thomas (Labour, Caerdydd Penarth)

I would like to congratulate and celebrate the anniversary of the BAWSO charity at 30. For three decades, BAWSO has been supporting people the length and breadth of Wales at some of the most difficult periods of their lives.

Huw Thomas (Labour, Caerdydd Penarth)

Founded in Cardiff by a small group of black and minoritised women, BAWSO recognised that survivors of domestic abuse needed services that understood their experiences and the barriers they faced in seeking help. They've grown from a rented room with just a desk, chair and phone to a Wales-wide organisation, supporting thousands of people every year, with a free-access helpline, available 24 hours a day, every day. BAWSO has often led the way in tackling issues such as forced marriage, female genital mutilation, honour-based violence, modern slavery and human traffic, long before many of these issues received the attention they deserved.

As BAWSO marks its thirtieth anniversary, I want to thank staff, volunteers and trustees for everything they do. I particularly want to acknowledge the contribution of their founding chief executive, Mutale Merrill, and their present chief exec, Samsunear Ali, both of whom I've worked closely with over the years. I understand there's a gala celebration event on Friday, and I'm sure all of us here are very welcome there. Diolch.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

And finally, Rebeca Phillips.

Rebeca Phillips (Plaid Cymru, Brycheiniog Tawe Nedd)

Diolch, Lywydd. Gaynor Hopkins was born on 8 June 1951 in Skewen, Neath, one of six children to her father, Glyndwr Hopkins, a coal miner, and her mother, Elsie Hopkins. From humble beginnings, she became known all over the world for her distinctive raspy voice, immense emotional range and timeless anthems. Yes, Bonnie Tyler was a legend. With her well-known hits such as 'Total Eclipse of the Heart' and 'Holding Out for a Hero', Bonnie Tyler went on to sell millions of records all over the world. Not just a singer, Bonnie was an ambassador for many charities and used her global profile to champion them, supporting events and making appearances at charitable functions. Once saying, 'I'm just a girl from a small town in Wales who just loves to sing', she never forgot her Skewen roots. Sadly, on 9 July 2026, at the age of 75, we heard of the singer's passing. Our thoughts are with her family, friends and all those affected by her death.

Rebeca Phillips (Plaid Cymru, Brycheiniog Tawe Nedd)

Thank you, Bonnie, for being an inspiration to us all with your talent and kindness, and for showing the next generation that dreams can come true. Rest in peace.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Thank you, all.

5. Motion to establish a committee

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

We now move to item 5, a motion to establish the Llywydd's committee. I call on a member of the Business Committee to move the motion formally. Paul Davies.

Paul Davies (Conservative, Ceredigion Penfro)

Formally, Llywydd.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Thank you very much. The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? No. Therefore, the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36. Thank you very much.

6. Member Debate under Standing Order 11.21(iv): Young people and employment

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Item 6 is next, a Member debate under Standing Order 11.21(iv), young people and employment. I call on Shav Taj to move the motion tabled in her name and in the names of Jane Dodds and Paul Rock.

Shav Taj (Labour, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

Sorry, I'm just taking my jacket off, it's really hot. Diolch, Lywydd. I just wanted to say that I'm really pleased to move this motion today. It's my first individual Member debate, and I'm really pleased that it is on this issue, because it is such a big issue. I'm really happy that it was co-submitted by both the Greens and the Lib Dems. I just want to declare an interest—I have said this previously—I am the former general secretary of TUC Cymru, so this issue, in terms of young people and employment, is very much close to my heart and really important for me.

Can I start by noting that today, in fact, is World Youth Skills Day? This is really a chance for us to celebrate the potential of the next generation of young people in Wales and make sure that this new Government is setting them up to succeed. All of us, ultimately, have responsibility in this area, and, in the spirit of cross-party collaboration, I want to thank my co-sponsors for this debate, Jane Dodds and Paul Rock, for helping to get this issue onto the agenda. On World Youth Skills Day, the timing really couldn't be any better.

It's often said that young people are our future, but I want to remind everyone that the underlying issues related to young people and employment are not problems for the future, they're for the here and now. When it comes to mental health and physical health, a lack of job opportunities, a lack of well-paid and secure work, bullying, harassment and discrimination, or even not being able to catch a bus in time, get to a bus or a train to where jobs actually are, and the impact of AI on entry-level jobs, these are the real obstacles, and they're happening in the here and now, which makes these issues just as urgent as anything else that we may be discussing in the Senedd.

Shav Taj (Labour, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

Now, younger generations today may want all of the same things that we wanted back in the days. I mean, I remember my first official paid job when I was 17 or 18 in the Sweater Shop in town. I was paid £2.65 and it really was an awful job. But the first thing that I got to do was to buy my first pair of Nike trainers, because up until then, it was Matchstick all the way, because that was what my parents could afford to buy me from Woolworths. But, of course, young people now want the same things. They want to make their own money. They want to make sure that they can pay their way in life and, of course, start building a future, not only for themselves, but also for many others. Many of them have caring responsibilities. They want to be able to buy a house or even start a family.

Now, Llywydd, as the former health Secretary Alan Milburn has set out in his review, we risk a lost generation of young people. One in eight between the ages of 16 and 24 are not in employment, education or training, otherwise known as NEETs, and I was shocked, really, to find that the data from the end of last year showed that the situation in Wales is actually even worse. One in six young people are not in work, not in education or training, and that should really wind each and every one of us up and make us angry enough to want to do something about it and to work together on these issues, because youth unemployment is not a fringe issue. It is actually the symptom of a systemic failure, bigger than any one policy, bigger than any department or Government, and clearly, now, it demands an even bigger and better response.

Now, I saw during my time at TUC Cymru that the last Welsh Government took some really positive steps. The young person's guarantee that was rolled out, when we were coming out of the COVID pandemic, helped around 10,000 young people to get into work; 30,000 apprenticeships were started; and more people were helped to further their education or even start their own business. But clearly, though, that guarantee hasn't been universally effective. So, it hasn't done all the things that we were hoping to do. Only around half of the people that were supported through these various schemes actually went on to achieve a positive outcome. And that's just the people who were even aware that this support existed in the first place and were able to take advantage of it and to navigate through it as well. But what about the people who weren't aware, who weren't able to navigate the systems that were set up?

Now, as set out by the previous skills and social partnership Minister, Jack Sargent, the various schemes that make up the young person's guarantee are going to be replaced by a new employability support programme, starting next year. I think that if we do this right, it genuinely can be a golden opportunity for us to do things differently here in Wales, to take what works and to streamline it with a real laser focus on moving young people into good, fair work jobs and other opportunities. The UK Government also operates a number of schemes for young people in Wales. The youth jobs grant, which started last month—that gives a real financial incentive for some employers to hire young people who have been out of work and are claiming universal credit. And, of course, there is the economic inactivity trailblazer scheme, which has been piloted in Blaenau Gwent, Denbighshire and Neath Port Talbot, and is currently being reviewed, as I understand it. This scheme, which looks at the underlying big causes of long-term unemployment, gives people the tailored support that they actually need, whether that's for mentoring, counselling or any other kind of special support that that person may need.

Now, despite all of the good work, all of the stuff that we've done so far, the issue with youth unemployment is not unique to Wales, but we can lead from the front when it comes to finding those solutions and implementing them. And we have to start, of course, with the evidence. Let's listen to the people who know best, and that is the young people who are actually at that sharp end, who are facing these real challenges on a day-to-day basis, because we don't have all of the answers, and that is the truth. Some people, young people in particular, are being let down more than others.

The latest stats, the official stats from the Welsh Government, show that 40 per cent of people with disabilities between the ages of 19 and 24 are not in education, employment or training. We know it's not because they lack skills or aspiration or any of those things. It is actually a failure, an abject failure of society, a lack of opportunity and a lack of proper support that's being given. In reality, one in three disabled workers are not getting the reasonable adjustments that they actually need in the first place. Relatively few public sector organisations even have the highest level of Disability Confident accreditation. And according to Mencap, 86 per cent of young people with learning disabilities want to be in paid work, and in reality, it's only 5 per cent—5 per cent—who actually are. This is mind-boggling, and that's just not right.

So, yes, while we have these schemes and they are transforming some lives, there are clearly gaps in the provision, and we know they exist and we need to do something about them. Now, when young people with disabilities consistently say that the systems that they're meant to be using, that are meant to be there—. Well, they say, 'They're not actually built with us in mind.' And that's not an opinion, that's their own individual lived experience. These are the people who know the issues best, and the systems would work better if we did a better job of listening to the people who use them. So, that should always be our starting point—for this Welsh Government, for all of us in this Senedd, we really need to, always, get out into our communities, listen and learn and act.

Shav Taj (Labour, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

And what else do young people need in Wales? One simple answer: more jobs embedded. But not any old job—good jobs, good jobs that are well paid, secure and give people a real opportunity for progress into that career, whatever that career may be that they choose. And Wales has a lower jobs density than England and Scotland. So, that's a problem, the availability of jobs. But the quality of jobs has actually been very much lacking too. Now, according to research by the Health Foundation, of all the nations and regions, it is Wales where workers are most likely to face multiple aspects of job quality. Lots of young people are actually overqualified for the roles that are open to them, and they're less likely than older colleagues to access any training and development.

Now, there's always a demand for young people in sectors like retail, hospitality and social care. But once they actually get into those jobs, what actually happens to them? They find themselves trapped in jobs with limited training and not able to actually progress. Now, TUC Cymru has raised concerns, and I've constantly been in front of one committee after the other where I've said that precarious jobs are shaping a generation. Bullying, harassment and poor treatment remain very real issues and are concerns for young people at work.

Working parents are struggling to even help their own children to navigate the world of work, and lots of young workers are also, of course, parents themselves, so it's a struggle for them to balance work and caring responsibilities. So, yes, we need to create more job opportunities for young people, but we need work that is well paid, that is secure, and we need to have welcoming workplaces in the first place, and cultures in workplaces where people feel that they can speak up and that they will be supported in the first place. Not just some warm words, not another policy, not another perfected way of doing things—we need tangible actions. It's so important that young people actually understand, of course, what is acceptable in the workplace and the rights and protections that they have. People who have been paid under the minimum wage, who haven't been given breaks or have experienced harassment in the workplace—they are at risk of thinking, 'This is just the way things are and there is nothing that I can do to change it.'

Now, for some young people, there is a lack of understanding around the jobs that are available, even when they're studying or training to work in a particular industry. For lots of young people, ideas about future careers and the opportunities that they can get are based on their own connections. That can make job seeking even harder, especially if they're from disadvantaged backgrounds. Now, TUC Cymru has done some good awareness work with the Welsh Government teaching young people about their rights at work, the role of trade unions, issues like health and safety and artificial intelligence, and that's through the World of Work programme that's been rolled out in schools, in youth clubs and many other places as well. And I hope that the current Government will continue to support that work.

Another Welsh Government scheme, which deserves praise, of course, is Taith. Now, that was and still is, actually, a distinctly Welsh programme that gives young people from disadvantaged backgrounds the opportunity to actually travel. Now, last week, I visited Ysgol Gyfun Gymraeg Glantaf in my constituency and I spoke to some of the pupils who have benefited from this scheme. And I was actually honestly genuinely so inspired by the new skills and the confidence that Taith has given them, and this is clearly not a one-off investment—it's a lifelong investment in young people all over Wales. So, again, I really hope that the Government will back this project beyond the current funding, because it definitely has a place in Wales, alongside, I believe, Erasmus+, reaching out to schools, and youth and adult organisations. Those who never thought that they'd have opportunities to even travel—so many of the young kids that I spoke to said they didn't even have a passport. They didn't even believe that this was going to be a real trip. They had the opportunity to go to Malaysia, and now there's going to be a delegation of children that are going to be visiting here. And it was, honestly, just amazing what they talked about.

Now, the new employability support programme coming in next year is a chance for us to build a better system that actually reflects the needs of the people it intends to help. And that gives a real helping hand to anyone who might need it. We need to seize the opportunities in front of us. Where there are jobs being created in sectors like clean energy, in digital and tourism—of course, the electric arc furnace in Port Talbot or the Cardiff parkway project—we need to make sure that young people from every single part of Wales are able to get to where they need to be, both literally, but also in the sense of public transport—affordable public transport—but also that they have the opportunity of good jobs and that they have the chance to progress.

So, while I'm proud to put forward this debate, the real work is for each and every one of us to do when we leave the Chamber. And I know that there are Members from all parties who are genuinely extremely passionate about helping young people—Members with different experiences, working with and on behalf of young people before they even came into the Senedd, with lots of different insights. So, let's come together and let's use those. Let's get out into our constituencies over the summer, let's listen to the people who are facing these challenges and look at what's working. Let's think about what we could do better and then let's get on with it and do it, so that Wales is the best place that it can be for young working people, where no young person is left behind. Diolch, Lywydd.

Jason O'Connell (Reform UK, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

I'd also like to declare an interest. It might surprise a few people to know that I'm a former young person myself. It was a while ago now, but—. I will say, I think when you think about the journey that young people go through, for too long, they've been kind of mis-sold a promise that if you go to university, then on the other side awaits a golden nirvana, a good job and big success, but the reality is that it hasn't—. Instead, thousands of young people across Wales, and indeed the UK, go into that process and they leave having to go for unpaid or low-paid jobs at the end of it in an unrelated field, because the degree that they had isn't valued by employers or wanted by the economy. They leave with debt. And the harsh reality is that the dreams of those young people going into those university courses have often been broken, and there's a lot of disappointment on the other side. And on both sides of the M4, young people have been mis-sold degrees, pushed through the system and leave with tens of thousands of pounds-worth of debt that they carry with them for decades. An economy of skilled workers that those employers have to go out to the world to look for to fill that—we could be filling right here in Wales. And many people in that generation are really paying the price for the decisions that we, as the older generation, have been making, and, certainly, in this Chamber.

Now, as has already been mentioned, 17 per cent of Welsh young people in Wales are NEET, and that, for a supposed advanced economy, is not an acceptable position to be in. Unlike many of them, I actually started my career with an apprenticeship, and I would say it was easily one of the best decisions I ever made. I would actually like to take the opportunity to pay tribute to those men and women at the civilian technical training school that I went on to work with. They've gone on throughout the world to achieve some remarkable things. It's just a shame that we couldn't keep them employed here in Wales, and that's what we have to look to do. I was able to earn and learn at the same time, and it led to a long and successful 30-year career across aerospace and defence. First of all with the Ministry of Defence at St Athan—a three-year apprenticeship that taught me and my colleagues the fundamentals of aerospace engineering. I then went on to the defence sector at another Welsh success story at General Dynamics, and various senior management positions soon after. So, apprenticeships may well be vocational in nature, but they can lead to some really exciting places for young people.

I know first-hand what apprenticeships can achieve. I understand the power of apprenticeships, for employers and for young people. They have dual value, and it's important that we consider that. Now, I want every young person in Wales to have those same opportunities. I think we can all agree to that premise. I think there will be consensus around the Chamber on that. I think there's power in that. That means shifting our focus away from low-value degrees and putting skilled trades back at the heart of where they belong, which is at the heart of Welsh education, so that people are aware of what those trades mean to the economy as they're coming through school and making those choices.

Now, today, young people who want to become electricians, engineers, plumbers and technicians are fighting over a handful of apprenticeship places. Despite skyrocketing demand, apprenticeship starts in Wales have actually fallen by around 37 per cent over the last decade. The last Government claimed they delivered 100,000 apprenticeships over the last term, but as we all now know, the figures were fiddled and the public were misled on that, and that's a terrible legacy to leave. Terrible delivery and a misrepresentation of data. But we need to turn that around.

Now, this debate today is an attempt to reclaim that narrative; we understand that. But I do think that we can all come together to recognise that programmes like Jobs Growth Wales and ReAct aren't enough to get our students through the process into producing high-quality jobs for employers. Too often these programmes have become a revolving door of courses, placements and paperwork, rather than a genuine route into secure employment and training. Now, of course it's not enough for me to say what we wouldn't do; we are the party that tells the public exactly what we would do. Reform Wales would expand high-quality degree apprenticeships, work with employers and make vocational skills just as respected as academic qualifications.

We also need to have an honest conversation about the impact of uncontrolled immigration on our jobs market. To not acknowledge the direct correlation is not to acknowledge the reality of the pressures that people face. Four hundred Welsh nurses, for example, paramedics and midwives who were trained here in Wales, ready, willing and able to work in our NHS, are unable to find work, while we import staff from abroad. Now, that's completely unacceptable to the men and women who are looking for jobs in our NHS. But that's what happens when Welsh workers aren't put first. Now, we appreciate anyone that wants to work in our NHS and contribute, but it can't be to the detriment of our own Welsh young people. Warm words aren't enough. We need better than the young person's guarantee. That's why—

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Jason.

Jason O'Connell (Reform UK, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

—we'll be abstaining today. Last point, and I will skip over.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Please.

Jason O'Connell (Reform UK, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

All parties have fallen short when it comes to prioritising the needs of our youngest. They deserve better. Restore will be abstaining. Thank you.

Zaynub Akbar (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

I'm very pleased to contribute to this very important debate, and I thank Shav and the others for bringing it forward to the Chamber.

For many young people, the question is not simply whether they can find work, it is whether they can build a future for themselves here in Wales. We rightly celebrate Wales as a great place to live, but we should also aspire to make it the best place to start your career. That means ensuring that opportunity is not determined by postcode or personal circumstance. Too often young people face very different prospects depending on where they grow up in Cardiff or in Wales. As we've heard, those living with disabilities, long-term health conditions, caring responsibilities or lower household incomes frequently face additional barriers to education, training and employment. If we are serious about equality of opportunity, we must recognise that not everyone starts from the same place and ensure that support reflects that very reality.

In my constituency of Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf, we see the vital role that further education plays in widening those opportunities. Coleg y Cymoedd serves thousands of learners across our region, many from communities that have historically faced higher levels of disadvantage. Its principal and chief executive, Jonathan Morgan, has recently highlighted the significant pressures facing the college currently. Despite receiving more than 6,000 applications for this September, reductions in funding mean that hundreds of prospective learners have been placed on waiting lists. Those learners are seeking qualifications in construction, manufacturing, digital technologies, health and social care, childcare and other sectors where Wales needs a strong workforce. At a time when we are encouraging young people to develop the skills our economy requires and is reliant on, we cannot afford to simultaneously create barriers to stop these opportunities. Investment in further education is an investment in economic growth, stronger communities and better life chances.

We also need a skills system that reflects both young people's aspirations and the needs of Welsh employers. Strong foundations in reading, writing and mathematics remain essential, but vocational education and apprenticeships must be valued equally and linked to clear pathways into secure, high-quality employment. As our economy changes, new opportunities will also emerge in green industries, advanced manufacturing, health and care, and digital innovation. We must ensure young people from every part of Wales can access those opportunities regardless of where they might live.

We should also look beyond our borders, giving young people greater opportunities to study, train and work across Europe, while encouraging them to bring those skills and experiences back to Wales. That can strengthen both individual careers and our economy as a whole. Ultimately, this debate is about more than employment statistics. It is about giving young people confidence that they can build fulfilling lives right here in Wales, and that requires joined-up action across education, skills, transport, housing and economic development. If we get those building blocks right, we will not simply reduce the number of young people who are NEET or improve employment figures—we will create a Wales where young people choose to stay, not because they have no alternative, but because the opportunities here are every bit as ambitious as the futures that they want to build. Diolch.

Paul Rock (Green, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

I'm pleased to support this motion today, and I thank Shav Taj for giving me the opportunity to speak about it. At its heart, this motion is about a simple principle: every young person in our nation deserves the opportunity to build a secure, sustainable and rewarding future here in Wales. The Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015 calls on us to think about the long term. That means ensuring young people are not simply finding jobs, but building careers that are sustainable, resilient and futureproof.

Much can be said about the barriers facing young people, from low pay and insecure work to a lack of progression opportunities, but I want to focus on the opportunities being created by our climate commitments, and the good-quality jobs that can come with them. As Greens, we see meeting our climate commitments not as a burden, but as a huge opportunity. It can create thousands of long-term skilled jobs. Crucially, we need careers that equip young people with skills for life. We should not be directing people into industries with an expiry date attached to them. Instead, we should be investing in sectors that we know will continue to grow and provide stable employment for decades to come.

Some of those careers will be in the trades. We need to deliver renewable energy projects, retrofit our existing housing stock and build the sustainable homes and infrastructure of the future. We need more engineers, more skilled construction workers and more investment in research and development if Wales is to become that global leader.

I'd like to highlight the potential of marine and tidal energy. Wales is blessed with extraordinary coastlines and the second largest tidal range in the world. By harnessing that natural advantage, we can create skilled careers by strengthening our energy security. If Wales isn't ready for this transition, it's our young people who will, once again, miss the boat. We need to be able to equip them to move into these good long-term careers, otherwise the opportunities will simply go elsewhere.

The Warm Homes plan is another good example of where environmental and economic goals come together. Retrofitting homes and building fossil-fuel-free homes from the outset will cut emissions, lower energy bills and create skilled employment in construction and engineering. These are jobs rooted in communities, and jobs that we will need if we are serious about meeting our climate commitments. That's why I'm so pleased to support this motion, and I urge the Welsh Government to consider and ensure that the pathways into green industries are ambitious, accessible and available to young people across Wales. Diolch.

Tom Montgomery (Reform UK, Clwyd)

Thank you to the Member for bringing forward this debate, and to all those who have contributed so far. Creating pathways into employment for young people is critically important, as detailed in the motion. Given this, I truly welcome the spirit of this motion. It is incumbent upon all of us to find solutions to this issue. However, I do feel that there is more room for us to cover. We need more focus on vocational apprenticeships, particularly in relation to the building and construction industry. At this point, I must declare an interest, as my younger brother is currently completing one such vocational apprenticeship.

Trades and construction are a significant employer across our country. However, from the experience of my brother, I can tell this Chamber that the cuts to apprenticeship funding dealt a huge blow to the success of these vocational apprenticeships. I recall months of worry and concern as my brother's apprenticeship hung in the balance. He struggled to find a qualified trade to take him on as an apprentice. We must recognise that the vast majority of trades are sole traders or small in size, people that lack the financial reserves to employ an apprentice and all the costs that can come with that.

Previously, funding was available to help meet these costs. Apprentices could find stable work placements, essential to them completing their courses, and employers were supported. We had a pathway for young people to learn a trade, gain valuable work experience and move into full-time work. However, when cuts to funding came, this pathway was restricted. If you are serious about creating avenues into employment for every young person, then I believe this motion should be calling for those pathways to be re-established.

This leads me on to my next point. In my previous role, I worked in a charity, which, along with a number of other services, ran a successful back-to-work programme. I helped lead a project that took 16 individuals over a cohort of three months, mostly young people who were long-term unemployed, and we would pay them to work with us. Over three months, we gave them real work experience. We also set aside one day where we upskilled the participants in cv writing, interview skills, job search support, manual handling training, first aid, mental health and well-being support, to name just some of the skills we helped our participants receive. Over the two years that this project ran, we helped more than 40 young people back into full-time work.

I took away two key points from my time with this project. Firstly, like I already believed, Government cannot do it alone. We can create all the Government agencies, projects and schemes we want, but unless the Welsh Government is willing to financially support the private sector, and, importantly, the third sector, to provide job opportunities for long-term unemployed people, we will fail to create those pathways into employment.

Secondly, one of the largest barriers to getting people into work is experience. Without real work experience, many young people struggle to have the confidence to apply for jobs. They fail to make it through interview processes or simply don't know where to start when it comes to job hunting. I cannot tell you enough about the number of young people I worked with directly on this project who were able and willing to work, they just didn't know where to start. To see the transition that they went through in that short three-month window with us was remarkable.

So, this brings me on to my final point. We must recognise the importance of a young person's first part-time job, working as a pot wash or waiting tables. Whilst this is not a lifelong career for some, the workplace experience and skills that they gain are invaluable when it comes to moving to other work. This is exactly the point that I was trying to make last week in this place. The tourism and hospitality industry is a vital piece of the puzzle on this issue. I, like many others across Wales, worked in the hospitality sector. I held down a little part-time job from the age of 15, working around school, on weekends and in the evenings. And I recognised that my experience in this sector, working in pubs, restaurants, cafes in a variety of roles, gave me skills that no classroom could teach. It taught me the value of hard work. It helped me develop my interpersonal skills and gave me references for my cv. These are all vital components if we're serious about tackling youth unemployment. So, if we're serious about this issue, I truly believe we must engage with the tourism and hospitality sector, because I tell you they have been supporting young people into work and upskilling them for decades.

So, in conclusion, I do truly welcome the spirit of this motion, but I do believe that we have some more components that we need to consider if we're going to be successful in tackling youth unemployment in the future.

Kiera Marshall (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

I'll declare an interest as a youngish person. But thank you, Shav, for bringing forward—

Shav Taj (Labour, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

Definitely young.

Kiera Marshall (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

Young for politics. Thank you, Shav, for bringing forward this debate and also for joining the cross-party group on youth employment. The group is focusing on supporting young people and addressing the barriers they face in accessing employment and education, so I’d invite any Members here today to come and join the group. Because this is one of the most important issues facing this Senedd, but I also think it's one of the issues where we do have cross-party support.

There are over 56,000 young people in Wales not in employment, education or training, which is about the size of Barry. We know this is not an issue that affects all our young people equally. We know it disproportionately impacts young men, and we know it disproportionately impacts young men in our most deprived areas. I grew up in one of Wales's poorest estates, in Townhill in Swansea, against the backdrop of Tory austerity. I saw first-hand what a lack of opportunity can do. I saw it fail my friends, I saw it fail my neighbours. I’m so lucky and privileged to be here today, and I'm determined to use my voice to focus on this issue, because we cannot fail another generation.

Young people have limitless potential, the passion to learn and to grow, but the system limits them rather than supporting them. I’ve been speaking to sports leaders in Ely on this issue, and it’s like déjà vu. But it isn't all doom and gloom, because, often, as they do, communities have the solutions. Everything I’m about to mention to you has come to me directly from people in my constituency involved in youth work, or from young people themselves—simple, tangible ways we can change things to begin to tackle this problem.

Firstly, there is transport, with the £1 bus fare for young people. I'm so grateful to everyone who has been a part of this: the previous Government for the pilot, Jane Dodds for negotiating on it and the new Government for continuing it. But it doesn't go far enough yet, because we know the cost of travel is a barrier to learners trying to access educational opportunities, and fixing this has to be a priority of ours over this Senedd term.

Secondly, there's distance. If young people are at risk of disengaging with the education system, they're not going to travel halfway across Cardiff to access education that they're not sure is for them. Expanding vocational education and apprenticeships gives us this unique opportunity to provide education in our communities. We know there are other countries that offer vocational education, like junior apprenticeships, at a much earlier age, before young people reach crisis point and in a way that presents it as parity of qualification.

Thirdly, there's access. We have a diverse offer out there for our young people, and hopefully that's only going to grow over this Senedd term, but Cardiff and Vale College tell me they've got learners on waiting lists and they're having to turn young people away or put them on courses that don't align with their preferences, which will only worsen the issue of young people not in education, employment or training. And similarly, unless our young people know about the breadth of the opportunities available to them and what they can aspire to be, they cannot possibly make decisions on it. Last week, I spoke to apprentices at Cardiff and Vale College, and every single one of them told me they'd had to drop out, change pathways or do their own research to find what was available to them. We just can't let this go on any longer.

It seems like nothing has changed since I left school a decade ago, where the only employer that came into my school was the army. We didn't get to hear about the science, tech and engineering happening in Swansea University, about the tourism industry in the Mumbles. We just didn't get it at all. And constituents have flagged with me examples of best practice, like the Cardiff Commitment, and hats off to Huw Thomas and Cardiff Council, because I hear brilliant things about this project, and we should be looking at how we can roll that out on a larger scale.

And finally, I'd like to talk about local skills pipelines. I've been speaking to young people in Butetown, and they tell me about the significant developments happening in Cardiff Bay and in Butetown, but how, though they often get public money, no real effort has occurred to utilise the skills available in the community, and instead we're using companies from elsewhere to pursue these projects. So, if we're serious about creating a Wales for the future, about nation building, we must ensure that we support those at the beginning of their journey to reach their potential and achieve great things, because we have the solutions, we've heard some of them today, and by acting upon these, we'll impact countless lives in amazing ways that we will never know. Diolch yn fawr.

Jane Dodds (Liberal Democrat, Brycheiniog Tawe Nedd)

Thank you to Shav for bringing this forward. It's great to see that there is cross-party support. I really just want to say that when you meet a young person who cannot find a job, it is really heart-wrenching, because there is a sincere lack of hope and a cycle of desperation for that young person going forward.

We know that the youth unemployment figure in Wales is actually rising. It's nine times faster than Scotland and five times faster than the UK average. So, what should concern us is not simply the level of youth unemployment, but the speed at which the situation is deteriorating. For too long, and let's not blame anybody, we have not seen action to deliver the investment and economic growth that creates those high-skilled jobs that young people need. Combine that with the rising costs of housing and the burden of student debt, as we've heard, and it becomes so much easier to understand why so many talented young people feel their future lies outside of Wales.

But this shouldn't be a debate of despair, because that simply is not what young people are telling us. The Open University's business barometer, published this month, found that 71 per cent of young people who are not in education, employment or training, otherwise, as we've heard, known as NEET, would be willing to retrain or upskill to improve their prospects. Eighty two per cent say they would stay longer with an employer who invested in their development. That is heart-warming. This, then, is a crisis of opportunity, not a lack of aspiration—not a lack of aspiration on behalf of our young people. And I will always defend them when I hear all the time those phrases that are about negatively talking down our young people.

They do point to the barriers that there are: poor mental health, financial pressures, employers asking for experience that they've never been given the opportunity to gain. These are not inevitable problems, but policy failures, and we want them to be fixed. I have three areas just to highlight. Firstly, as has been pointed out by many of the speakers, we must address the shortage of education and training places. The young person's guarantee is an important commitment, but it is only meaningful if opportunities exist behind the promise. Secondly, I believe we need to change how we support those young people who are furthest from the labour market. We've heard about those young people with disabilities, but I just want to talk briefly about those young people who've had the experience of care.

Recent research from Action for Children found that one in four care-experienced young people lack the basic forms of identification needed to secure employment. Nearly a quarter have limited or no access to a mobile phone or computer, compared to just 7 per cent of their peers. And 41 per cent of care-experienced young people enter the labour market with a diagnosed mental health condition, nine in 10 of which say it affects their ability to find and keep their first job. These are problems on top of problems, compounded by a lack of understanding and support.

My final point is this: we must not only respond to today's labour market, we must prepare for tomorrow's. As has been said, many of us, perhaps in this Siambr, started with part-time jobs or Saturday jobs, but that opportunity has virtually disappeared. Mine was a Saturday job in the pick-'n'-mix in Woolworths. Probably, most of you here don't even remember Woolworths, and don't even remember pick-'n'-mix. It was a dreadful job, because I not only had to administer the pick-'n'-mix, but I also had to administer Slush Puppies, and the Slush Puppies would regularly go on my feet, and my shoes would end up totally sugar covered. But that gave me the opportunity, believe me, to be able to get into the world of work and then to put on a cv the experience that I had. That matters, because today's entry-level job is tomorrow's skilled worker; it's the first rung of the ladder and if it disappears without being replaced, we risk quietly dismantling the pipeline that supplies the workforce that we need here in Wales.

Our young people have not given up on Wales, but it can feel like Wales has given up on our young people. We need action, Minister. We need to hear from you what your plan is. We need to hear from you how you're going to engage with our young people in order to build the economy that we need to make sure that our young people have the opportunity to get into work and stay here in Wales. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Janet Finch-Saunders (Conservative, Bangor Conwy Môn)

Since the dawn of devolution 27 years ago, the young people of Wales have been let down, both in terms of their education received and their attempts to find good employment, and the two are inextricably linked. It's unforgiveable that a nation like ours with so much potential has become such an unattractive prospect for young people seeking employment, and that we are haemorrhaging precious home-grown talent in our youngsters and they are leaving Wales. But it's little wonder. Wages here are lower and people pay a greater proportion of their income in tax than anywhere else in Britain. So, why would a young person, fresh out of education, yet to put down roots, not seek opportunities and settle elsewhere?

The same stands for our businesses. Our young people—some of our young people—are the innovators of the future, the ones leaving education with fresh ideas for business start-ups. But with sky-high business rates and a poor infrastructure, transport wise, naturally, any business-savvy young person will look beyond Wales to minimise their costs and maximise their earnings.

But even before our young people look at the job market, their choices have been limited by the worst performing education system in the UK. And I blame Welsh Labour and Plaid Cymru. They have far fewer opportunities than their counterparts over the border for courses, apprenticeships and degrees. Our infrastructure and transport networks play their part in this problem. They are suffering from a chronic lack of investment, and virtue-signalling policies like 20 mph and a ban on road building have damaged us and meant that business and jobs are not coming to Wales in anywhere near the numbers they should.

I will say though that I very much welcome the commitment from the Welsh Government to a third Menai crossing in my own constituency of Bangor Conwy Môn, something that we have campaigned for for a long time. This will be critical to the expansion and new job opportunities at Wylfa, and that is exactly what we need to be replicating across Wales: investment in our transport infrastructure, building a much needed M4 relief road.

Other harmful policies like the tourism tax. It just beggars belief why you keep hitting the very businesses, as Tom Montgomery actually put across quite well, that youngsters want to go into, in the hospitality industry. They want to work in a fish and chip shop or serve slushies at Woolworths. But we're just doing everything we can to make it difficult for businesses to actually then encourage young people to go and work there.

During the election, the Welsh Conservatives had a robust plan for economic growth. It really was the only credible plan to deliver more jobs and prosperity, and, critically, to bring us in line with the rest of the UK. Now, we are happy to work with Plaid Cymru, and I had a very constructive meeting with the Minister yesterday, Adam Price. We need to work together, as has been said, cross-party, but we need to be serious about using the levers that you have as a Welsh Government. You need to scrap business rates for small firms, pubs and post offices. We need to make public procurement contracts more accessible, particularly to our small business. We've been talking about this for 15 years, but it's not happened. We must give priority to Welsh local firms.

We need to work with education providers to expand the choice of courses available to young people, particularly in STEM subjects and apprenticeships. We need to take action to address mobile blackspots and poor broadband speeds, so that our young people in remote and rural communities aren't left behind and their studies aren't hindered. Crucially, we need to look at the problem with young people and unemployment in the round, starting with the improving of our education system, finishing with fixing our economy. That is the only way to create secure, well-paid jobs for our young people, to rival those of other UK nations and indeed the rest of the world.

So, I agree with many of the really good points that have been made in this debate, but let's not forget who is responsible for the mess we're in with our job market. For Plaid, they've said all the right things about young people and employment before the election, but as I said on the day of my re-election, I will be really watching on this, because you will not grow Wales without growing your young people. I don't feel very optimistic that you will deliver all you have promised, and we will hold you to account on it—

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Thanks, Janet.