Senedd Cymru (Welsh Parliament), 1 July 2026

321 contributions from 57 members. The official report.

1. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Enterprise, Connectivity and Energy

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Good afternoon. Item 1 this afternoon is questions to the Cabinet Minister for Enterprise, Connectivity and Energy, and the first question is from Sera Evans.

Sera Evans (Plaid Cymru, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

1. Will the Cabinet Minister provide an update on the Welsh Government's support for co-operatives and employee-owned businesses? OQ64285

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

This Government is committed to building a fairer, more ambitious Welsh economy rooted in our communities. We will strengthen support for co-operatives and employee-owned businesses, helping them create secure jobs, retain wealth locally, grow Welsh ownership and ensure communities share directly in Wales's future economic success.

Sera Evans (Plaid Cymru, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Thank you for that response, Minister.

Sera Evans (Plaid Cymru, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

If improving productivity is at the heart of the Government's economic agenda, then we also need to consider the business models that consistently deliver stronger performance. Recent research for the Employee Ownership Association and Ownership at Work found that employee-owned businesses are estimated to be 8 per cent to 12 per cent more productive than comparable non-employee-owned businesses on a gross value added per employee basis, and are also more likely to have increased profits over the previous five years. I've been contacted by a constituent who has been exploring the possibility of setting up an employee-owned business but has found the current landscape quite prohibitive, which raises questions about whether the system is sufficiently geared to wider adoption of this model. As the Government develops its support infrastructure for social enterprise, co-operatives and employee-owned businesses, will it look at how existing financial and business support can be reconfigured to better support employee ownership and unlock its productivity benefits? Diolch.

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

Thank you. I'm really grateful for the question, the supplementary. Indeed, it's fascinating, actually, the research that you quoted. I quoted it myself at the employee-owned business association's conference, and you are absolutely right that there's very strong evidence that employee ownership, co-operative ownership—these models—can help us achieve that ambitious national productivity mission goal. So absolutely, we should be creating the best possible environment and support to ensure that we maximise that opportunity. So, we're committed as a Government to supporting and expanding co-operative businesses, employee-owned businesses, providing them with the specialist support that they need, including finance from the Development Bank of Wales. I'd ask as well, perhaps, if she could ask if the constituent can contact me directly, because we're keen to know how we can get this right, because there is a huge prize there. Wales gave the world, through Robert Owen, the co-operative as an idea. Let's build on that heritage for the twenty-first century, and where we want to get to with our national productivity mission goal, and let's make sure that we maximise the opportunity.

Sarah Edwards (Reform UK, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

Cabinet Minister, the way you support small businesses of all kinds, including co-operatives, is by ensuring that they aren't overtaxed. Will the Minister give thought to Reform's policy of reviewing the business rates regime, with a view to cutting tax on small and high-street businesses? Diolch.

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

I've said that we want to make Wales the best environment, the easiest place to start a business, grow a business and invest in a business. As part of that, obviously, we need to look at all of the policy levers, including our business rates policy. We are already committed—it is a manifesto commitment—to revising and reforming the business rates system, so that we do, I think, square the balance, get the balance right, in terms of making sure that our small companies, and particularly our high-street companies, particular sectors in our town centres that have been under particular pressure—. So, we have begun that work. We'll probably need to do it in phases, but we are certainly very, very committed to using all the levers, including the reform of business rates, to create the best possible business environment for our small businesses.

Mike Hedges (Labour, Gŵyr Abertawe)

Can I declare an interest as a member of the Co-operative Party and as someone who has been active in several co-operatives? I'm proud that, in the last Senedd's term, the Welsh Labour Government not only set an ambitious target to double the number of employee-owned businesses, but actually broke it quite substantially before the 2026 election. Now, the benefit of employee-owned businesses is well established. My party's manifesto for May contained a commitment to double again the number of co-operatives and community-owned businesses, and I know that your party manifesto similarly spoke about ensuring that businesses are Welsh run, although without that specific target around how success could be measured. So, what target would you consider to be a measure of success for increasing the co-operative model of ownership?

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

Yes, at the employee-owned business conference, actually, I was able to point out that the targets in terms of the employee-owned sector had been exceeded, and I think there are about 113 employee-owned businesses in Wales, but as we say in Welsh, 'nid da lle gellir gwell', so let's exceed further our ambition. The Member will know that I do love a good target—it keeps you accountable. So, we are working below that headline, North Star national productivity mission. Work has been going on in detail at the next tier of targets. And, certainly, I will take back his suggestion about having a particular target for this vitally important sector as well.

Lis McLean (Plaid Cymru, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

2. Will the Cabinet Minister provide an update on the development of the Welsh Government's national energy strategy? OQ64292

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

The national energy strategy is progressing as a priority of our 100-day plan. It will set out how we will meet our energy needs by benefiting communities and minimises negative impacts. We will set out how community ownership will be achieved and the expanded role of our Welsh public energy company.

Lis McLean (Plaid Cymru, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

The cost-of-living crisis has demonstrated how fragile our current energy system is. Communities across Wales are facing the impacts directly, and it's clear that fundamental change is needed. This shows us the importance of inspiring enterprise in our communities and ensuring that people have the skills and support to build and generate wealth in their own communities. For community energy projects to thrive, support is needed from the Government. So, what steps will the Welsh Government take to ensure that energy projects that are owned by the community receive the expertise and funding that they need?

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

Well, ensuring that Wales gets the benefit from the clean renewable energy potential that we have is crucial to our energy policy. It was us, through the co-operation agreement that existed in the previous Senedd, who created the basis for the creation of Ynni Cymru, which helps communities to do exactly what we're talking about here, namely ensuring that they own community energy facilities. We've seen in our past a situation where we had wealth in terms of energy arising from coal but where the benefits were lost, and we don't want to make that mistake again. So, the foundation has been laid with Ynni Cymru.

What we want to do now, of course, is build on those foundations by creating a public energy company that brings the various elements together. We have Ynni Cymru, which looks at the community element, and then we have Trydan Gwyrdd Cymru, which is owned by the people of Wales at a higher level in terms of the scale of projects, and then the energy service. We are bringing all of those together under one umbrella, so that we ensure that we have the capacity at all levels to see that Wales and the people of Wales, at a community level and a national level, get the benefit from their energy potential.

Andrew Griffin (Reform UK, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Cabinet Minister, you mentioned renewables. Recent reports have raised concerns that asbestos-containing components may have been used in some wind turbines in the United Kingdom. What assessment has the Welsh Government made of whether any turbines in Wales are affected? What discussions have taken place with operators, manufacturers and the Health and Safety Executive, and what action is being taken to protect workers and reassure local communities? If such components are identified in Wales, will you confirm that the full costs of inspection, remediation and replacement will be borne by the operators and manufacturers, and not by the Welsh taxpayer? And finally, unless and until the Government can provide assurance that the scale of this issue is fully understood, and that there is no risk to workers or the public, will you consider introducing a temporary moratorium on new wind turbine installations in Wales? Thank you.

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

I'm grateful to the Member for his question. I've not seen the report to which he refers, but what I will do, therefore, is ask my officials to provide me and him—and we'll make sure, of course, that other Senedd Members get a copy of the response—a detailed assessment along the lines that he is asking for.

Huw Thomas (Labour, Caerdydd Penarth)

Could the Minister confirm that tidal energy will be part of the national energy strategy? In my previous role, I was involved in the work of the commission of independent experts that looked at tidal energy in the Severn estuary. That report was published last year. If tidal energy is part of the strategy, will the Minister agree to meet with me and members of the commission to discuss taking that project forward?

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

Thank you for that question, and I am familiar with the report that was published, which was particularly interesting. Certainly, the Government is very supportive of Wales making the most of the unique potential that we have. It's the second highest tidal range in the world, and we want to make the most of that potential. And I would be delighted to meet with some of those who were involved in the commission's work in order to ensure that we make progress as soon as possible in that sector.

Anthony Slaughter (Green, Caerdydd Penarth)

Minister, yesterday, the National Energy System Operator published its 'Beyond 2030' update. The report clearly shows that Wales's electricity network is not fit for purpose. It was designed over 60 years ago to serve fossil-fuel power stations that Wales no longer has. The report sets out the investment needed to address the bottlenecks in the network. If transmission infrastructure is not delivered where needed, it says, constraint costs rise, leaving bill payers facing higher costs and additional costs. It will delay new connections for homes, businesses and clean generation. It will also hold back economic growth. The report identifies the need for a new line between north Wales and Shropshire, and a new substation in mid Wales. Alongside efficiency and community-owned generation, network upgrades will unlock an onshore wind sector in Wales worth £3.5 billion, creating thousands of well-paid, secure jobs. What will the Minister be doing to take forward the recommendations of the report to upgrade the Welsh network and unlock the Government's vision of an energy-independent Wales?

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

I've already met with the team in NESO that was responsible for the transitional report to which the Member refers. We will have further discussions with them over the course of the six-month period in which they will be inviting responses to the transitional plan. Obviously, we don't have direct responsibility for the transmission network; that is reserved at Westminster. But, obviously, we will be taking a view in light of the national energy strategy, which will be setting out Wales's energy needs, and it's in that context that we will respond in due course.

Jane Dodds (Liberal Democrat, Brycheiniog Tawe Nedd)

I'm very grateful for the opportunity to ask questions on this very important topic. And I support everything that Lis has suggested in her supplementary question too. If it's okay, I just want to talk about what you've done in the past, and you mentioned that in your response.

Jane Dodds (Liberal Democrat, Brycheiniog Tawe Nedd)

We were, in opposition, constantly arguing that undergrounding should become the default position for any new electricity infrastructure. You and I were both frustrated by the previous Welsh Government, and by the independent advisory group, both of whom were meant to provide clarity and direction, and neither did. After more than a year of delay, we found that the group admitted it could not reach that consensus, and communities right across Wales right now are faced with the threat of large-scale pylon developments. So, I want to hear from you: will this Welsh Government finally strengthen 'Planning Policy Wales' so that the presumption is in favour of undergrounding and is genuinely enforced? Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

I'm very grateful to the Member for that question. And, yes, can I place it once more on the record that, as to the distribution network, which, in contrast to the transmission network, as I referred in my earlier response, is devolved—therefore, 132 kV and below—our policy is very clear, in that we believe that that should be undergrounded. We will not allow pylons on new lines. The only exceptions would involve wooden poles or similarly unobtrusive infrastructure. We'll be setting that out in the first instance through the means of a ministerial statement. I'm conscious that this, actually, as we're discussing planning, although there is an energy policy context, is actually within the area of responsibility of my colleague the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning—I'm sorry if I've got them the wrong way round. But that would be the first step, and then, obviously, that will be further iterated through the changes in planning. But I want to be absolutely clear: our policy is clear on this—we do not see a role for pylons on new lines in the distribution network.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

I now call the party spokespeople to question the Cabinet Minister. First of all, Reform UK spokesperson, Jason O'Connell.

Jason O'Connell (Reform UK, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

Diolch, Lywydd. After 27 years of hard Labour, propped up by Plaid, regional inequality across the Welsh economy has never been higher. Many towns across the Valleys in my constituency feel forgotten and left behind as a result. Now, endless opportunities for new business, especially on the large size, have been placed towards the Cardiff area, with numerous top jobs given to civil servants, while the rest of Wales is left with near empty satellite offices, while many people in those offices choose to work from home. Minister, this is not acceptable for a truly dynamic Wales that we want to see. If you are serious about tackling regional inequality, you'll place the new Welsh Development Agency offices where they are needed the most: Merthyr, Pontypridd, Aberdare, the heart of the Valleys. So, will you ensure that all WDA offices are placed in these areas, that they are staffed full-time, in person, delivering stable jobs, increased football—footfall, sorry—for businesses, boosting the local economy? Diolch.

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

I'm very grateful to the Member for his question. I think at the heart of his question is a really centrally important challenge, really—that, even as we try and progress as fast as we can along this pathway to halving the productivity gap between Wales as a whole and the rest of the UK, we have to make sure that we do that in a way that is spatially fair. We cannot have Wales reproducing, if you like, in our context, the problem of the wider UK economy, where we've had wealth and opportunity concentrated in a certain corner. So, in everything that we do, we must make sure that, when we are achieving our economic potential for the nation as a whole, we are seeking to do that for every part of the nation as a whole, and every region and every community.

I think that, as he raises the issue of the agency, that needs to be at the heart of the remit letter for the agency. Part of that is where you locate. Well, part of that is creating strong regional divisions who are given that active responsibility on the ground, and then making sure that there are teams located in every part of Wales. And yes, there are benefits to that in terms of football—footfall—but also—. That was a Freudian slip; I wish we were in the World Cup, but there we are. [Laughter.]

But yes, look, 'every which way we can', is the short answer. I'm interested in any idea that closes the gap. There are other things that we want to do. My colleague, the Member for, the Minister for rural—

Llyr Gruffydd (Plaid Cymru, Clwyd)

Rural resilience.

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

—rural resilience and climate change—. It's like Cabinet bingo, isn't it? 'I got that one right.' [Laughter.] We will be working together, ensuring that rural Wales and all the sectors that are particularly important in rural Wales, critically, the Valleys as well—. I'm from the anthracite coalfield. The Valleys have not had the platform that they deserve. We will change that as part of our overarching economic strategy, through the development agency, but through policies of the Government as a whole as well.

Jason O'Connell (Reform UK, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

Diolch. Thank you. For this next question, can I declare an interest as a former worker at the St Athan site? Now, St Athan used to be a powerhouse for aerospace and defence. It's now underutilised and it lies next, of course, to a rather underperforming and underutilised Cardiff Airport. After key defence contracts were lost, Plaid Cymru's former leader Leanne Wood stated:

'People have been led up the garden path with promises of thousands of well-paid jobs, yet ultimately businesses and workers have been left bitterly disappointed.'

It loathes me to agree with her. Now, today, we have a Plaid Government that's soft on the economy and soft on growth, choosing instead to knock at the door of No. 10 begging for scraps from an already struggling UK—a Government that cares more about their image on the national stage than they do about the Welsh economy. We should be focused on bringing an aerospace hub like St Athan to its former glory and realise its full potential, doubling down on jobs, attracting businesses and accessing global opportunities in the maintenance, repair, overhaul and freight sectors. There is so much potential there.

So, Minister, you claim Wales is open for business—what is your Government's strategy for aerospace? Because I've heard nothing on this. How are you going to connect your proposed skills audit with the high-skilled jobs needed in the sector, and are you going to be able to finally deliver a result for St Athan and the wider aerospace community? Diolch.

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

Well, I preferred the second half of the question, which was: what are we going to do? Look, I agree that there's a massive opportunity there. Already, there is an important cluster. We have an aerospace cluster. We also have a wider aviation MRO cluster. I'm interested in getting around the table with anyone and everyone who wants to work to ensure that we make the most of those assets that are there. Some of them are physical assets. Some of them are human capital assets—the skills of our people. I want us to build further on those skills. Certainly, we see this sector, including the cluster around St Athan and the airport, as one of the strategically important clusters for Wales. It's a growth platform. Has it been fully maximised in its potential? No, absolutely not. There's a new Government here. Look, if the Member has ideas, practicable ideas—short, medium, and long term—my door is open. Let's get around the table, even, sometimes, Government and opposition, working together. There's no monopoly on good ideas. It is a strategically important cluster for us, we've already identified that, and we will work with the cluster and with everyone else to ensure that it maximises its potential.

Jason O'Connell (Reform UK, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

Diolch for the answer. Wales has some of the oldest hospitals and infrastructure in the UK. Yet as a result of Keir Starmer's delayed investment plan on defence this week, Wales will see its capital funding slashed and our nation will be poorer for it. Now, Reform doesn't disagree with increasing defence spending, but that money has to come from the right place, and that right place has to be from the welfare budget. For the last 13 years, the UK has spent more on welfare than it has received in income tax. Instead, the UK Labour Government has sacrificed Wales on the altar of ever-expanding welfare, putting at risk the building our sick and young need, and starving the Welsh economy of much-needed infrastructure and economic growth. So, do you agree with me, Minister, that Starmer's defence spending decisions have unfairly punished Wales and our economy, and what economic impact assessments will be carried out regarding this? Diolch.

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

I'm always trying to find common ground, so let's start where there is some agreement. I think it is indefensible that the extra defence expenditure is being found by raiding the budget for vitally important social infrastructure. It's an incredibly unfair and short-termist policy when other options are available. Now, here comes the disagreement: in one of Europe's most unequal countries, is the fairest thing to do, then, to raid the welfare budget, which is there at least to provide some amelioration against the massive poverty that we have in our society, when, instead of that, you could be looking at the other end of the income scale, couldn't you, at wealth, and introducing a wealth tax in this country? So, if there is a deficit to be filled, why don't we actually ask for the money to come from some of the richest pockets and the broadest shoulders, rather than balancing the budget on the backs of the poor?

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Welsh Labour spokesperson, Vikki Howells.

Vikki Howells (Labour, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

Diolch, Lywydd. Minister, we all know that the M4 is a heavily used artery for commuters, tourists and businesses. Congestion on the Newport section of the M4 is an issue that this Plaid Cymru minority Government has indicated it wants to solve, but we hear loudly and clearly from the leader of Newport council and others that junction closures around Newport are not something that the people of the city want. Junction closures would force more traffic onto local roads and into some of the least affluent areas of the city, compounding health and well-being issues already faced by the people who live there. So, what consultation do you intend to have with local communities who could be affected by junction closures, and do you acknowledge that the communities affected go far beyond the boundaries of Newport, including all the way to the Heads of the Valleys, Cwmbran and Abergavenny?

Mark Hooper (Plaid Cymru, Pen-y-bont Bro Morgannwg)

Thank you, Vikki, for the question. I think the way you encapsulate it is absolutely correct in terms of that Newport and the M4 is a system and when you change one part of the system here, it has an impact elsewhere. We're really aware of that in terms of the solutions we're going to come across and try and work through. What I'm keen to do is to make sure those Members across the Senedd who are local to this get some technical briefing early on the subject, so we can all understand and speak from the same opportunities and same concerns.

I understand people's concerns in Newport, and Newport is probably the area that you'll see me spending most time in over the next few months, because I think it's important that I get to understand the issues from the community's perspectives, from the leaders in those areas' perspectives, and also to make sure that we do something that reflects those concerns as well. So, we're going to be coming back in the autumn with what I think will be quite a balanced suite of measures, and, hopefully, those will be things that will get some broad support, which is what I'm looking for. I think it's important, as the Cabinet Minister said, that we look for areas where we can co-operate, so this is where we look for things we can co-operate on, and I look forward to having those conversations in more detail with the people who count.

Vikki Howells (Labour, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

Technical briefings for local Members and conversations locally should obviously be welcome, but they shouldn't replace a formal consultation process with those communities that will be the deepest affected by any changes.

And sticking to the M4 congestion, I note that you've committed to renewing work undertaken by the previous Welsh Labour Government to identify a clear and evidence-based way forward, making use of the substantial body of evidence that's already available. And I and my Welsh Labour colleagues certainly look forward to you reporting back in the autumn on your Government's planned way forward. Part of the solution has always been to offer high-quality public transport alternatives for commuters. So, what work have you done to date to speed up work on the public transport offer, the so-called Burns stations, and what conversations have you had with UK Government on this?

Mark Hooper (Plaid Cymru, Pen-y-bont Bro Morgannwg)

So, again, thanks for that next question, and this builds on where we're trying to build a co-operative approach. So, I spent some time with Lord Hendy last week and the Secretary of State for Wales in what I think was—. Everyone left the room saying, 'That was a really constructive conversation.' I think we're all on the same page. We recognise that these are issues to be solved.

There is a big problem in the room, though, that we need the finances to be programmed through, to show that we can get on with it. What Lord Hendy said specifically is, 'Is Wales ready to take these Burns stations on? Are you ready with the plans to make this happen?' And it gave me great pleasure to say 'yes', we were, and that's the sort of thing they're looking for, because when they go back to the Treasury they don't just want this vague idea of what things are going to happen. What they want is, 'This is what we're going to do. This is when we're going to go and do it.'

And then, going back to your previous question, we can then speak to the people of Newport and elsewhere with some concrete plans as to when things will happen. Again, this is something where I think there are some opportunities for some broad consensus, because I think, as we stand at the moment, the public transport routes across Newport and around Newport aren't working as effectively as they can, so this is our opportunity for us to show as a body politic that we can deliver these things.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Welsh Conservatives spokesperson, Janet Finch-Saunders.

Janet Finch-Saunders (Conservative, Bangor Conwy Môn)

Diolch, Lywydd. Cabinet Minister, do you agree that the Welsh free ports have a major role to play in delivering offshore renewable energy projects in Wales? As well as supporting our renewable energy ambitions, the free ports will attract nearly £5 million of investment, create up to 16,000 jobs and provide a huge boost to the Welsh economy. As we're all aware, free ports were put in place by the former Conservative UK Government, with the then Secretary of State for Wales, David T.C. Davies, working tirelessly to get two free ports delivered for Wales. When the last Conservative UK Government took advantage of the freedoms provided by Brexit to establish free ports, Plaid Cymru were sceptical. But now, given the economic benefits that these offer, do you fully accept the role that they will play in driving growth, attracting investment and creating jobs in Wales? And do you welcome the great Brexit benefits that they are going to bring?

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

You were doing so well. No, look, to be honest with you, I understand where the Member's coming from, and I don't want to waste time or energy in waging the battles of the past, I'm more interested in winning the prize of the future. And at the heart of your question, there is a massive prize. We have one of the best places in the world—in fact, one of only three where you can build a mega-scale floating offshore wind field. And so the race is between us, the Koreans and the Norwegians to get there first. Let's get that early mover advantage, and not just in building out the floating offshore wind turbines themselves, let's build the turbines, and let's build the turbines in Welsh ports. What we can do, I think, is turn those Welsh ports, if you like, into massive-scale green industrial parks, because where we land the energy, we can actually then create an energy system that will allow our large industrial users, in Tata, Port Talbot, but in the other ports as well, to create a competitive advantage because we have this unique asset of abundant clean energy. Let's use it for Welsh benefit.

Janet Finch-Saunders (Conservative, Bangor Conwy Môn)

Minister, diolch. Thank you for setting out your unequivocal support for Welsh free ports. I'm pleased that your Government is now willing to take advantage of some of the freedoms that Brexit has made possible. Free ports work because the businesses inside benefit from lower taxes and lower red tape. As a result, investment is attracted, jobs are created and economic growth follows. So, do you agree that free ports are a living example of the fact that cutting taxes and reducing red tape help to create jobs and prosperity? And if you have now abandoned your stance of opposition to free ports and recognise what low taxes can do, why not go one stage further and abandon the outdated socialist dogma that is holding Wales back with its enterprise investment across Wales? Scrap the tourism tax, cut business rates, join the Welsh Conservatives in supporting—[Laughter.] Well, not literally, I might add. Join the Welsh Conservatives, I'll say it again, in supporting low tax, lower bureaucracy.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

[Inaudible.]

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

Janet, I know you are one of my biggest fans, but I think you've gone too far. [Laughter.] So, I'm going to have to leave you at the altar here. I won't be joining the Conservative Party any time soon.

But look, we have free ports, we have enterprise zones, we have investment zones, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. I'm less interested in what we call these things. I'm more interested in what they can do. And if any lever or tool allows us to build faster, to get further to where we want to get to in terms of our productivity goal, then hallelujah. And I'll happily thank anyone that was responsible for helping us along that journey. Let's not get stuck in the politics of this, and let's try and actually raise our sights a little bit and aim at the goal.

Peredur Owen Griffiths (Plaid Cymru, Casnewydd Islwyn)

3. What steps will the Government take to support the development of skills needed in the semiconductor industry in Casnewydd Islwyn? OQ64311

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

Diolch. As part of the investment zone, we are working with the Cardiff capital region, Newport City Council and CSconnected to develop a skills delivery plan to meet the cluster’s needs and develop future talent. Officials are also included in discussions around creating a dedicated skills centre for the cluster.

Peredur Owen Griffiths (Plaid Cymru, Casnewydd Islwyn)

Thank you for that response.

Peredur Owen Griffiths (Plaid Cymru, Casnewydd Islwyn)

Earlier this month, I visited KLA in Newport with my Plaid Cymru colleague, Lyn Ackerman. KLA is a semiconductor firm with a proud history of providing well-paid jobs and is an integral part of the south Wales semiconductor cluster, and the first of its kind in the world. This cluster has an average salary of £67,765 per full-time employee, almost double the Welsh average. The average gross value added per employee is £155,000, excluding non-manufacturing activity. It has contributed £436 million to the GVA of the Welsh economy and supports key sectors, including advanced communications, clean energy, automotive and transport, and medical technologies. It's clear that semiconductors are key to the future economy of south-east Wales and the wider nation. To seize this opportunity, we'd need the right workforce—

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

[Inaudible.]

Peredur Owen Griffiths (Plaid Cymru, Casnewydd Islwyn)

I'll come to my question now. So, how will you ensure that more young people can access careers in this sector and benefit from this generational opportunity?

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

Well, I also had the privilege of visiting KLA last week and I would urge all Members to take up that opportunity. It is so incredible what you see there because this is a full-spectrum cluster. We're not only producing the compound semiconductors, we're producing the machines in KLA that make them. And, for me, it was quite emotional, thinking we've gone from coal mining to data mining, and to see these young people there, in probably the world's leading high-tech cluster in this area, world-leading companies. I was told as well that in that company—KLA, SPTS previously—people go in as apprentices, they end up 25, 30 years later as senior managers. It's a fantastic example of what we can do.

So, yes, we're in discussion, as I said, in terms of building the skills centre. But also I know that Newport council is proposing a school's science, technology, engineering and mathematics programme as well, so that we're also switching on the light bulb in young people's minds to imagine what they could be. And that, at the individual level, is really what we're trying to do at the level of the nation as a whole. So, we will absolutely do our part in making sure that this fantastic jewel in the crown delivers the real potential. We ain't seen nothing yet, I think.

Art Wright (Reform UK, Casnewydd Islwyn)

I must state an interest as a former soldier and a Ministry of Defence contractor. It is clear, with the current advancement in artificial intelligence, the internet of things, data centres, 5G technology, and the current demand for semiconductors, we will only see an upwards trajectory. Add in the various needs of the weapons industry in the British military, and we ourselves have a vital asset within Casnewydd Islwyn, and I for one am proud they've chosen Newport as their home. Their pathway is to employ 500, rising to 900, in highly skilled, well-paid jobs and, as my colleague has already stated, massively above the common average for the area itself. The chief technology officer has already stated, and I quote him directly, that they will draw upon the skilled workforce of Newport.

Given that the UK Government deems this worthy of circa £250 million plus planned investment over the coming years, and much of this coming from the parent company themselves, what are the Minister's plans to ensure that the vital industry will have the support of the Government going forward, and to assist them by lowering energy costs?

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

Well, I personally as a Minister and we as a Government will do everything that we can to support the growth of that company, and indeed these growth sectors and clusters. We're fortunate in Wales that we've maintained our advanced manufacturing base. Manufacturing is still 16 to 17 per cent of our economy as a whole, whereas in the UK it's half of that. But we shouldn't actually just stay there. We should re-industrialise. We should drive, as the European Union has talked about, driving up to 20 per cent, we should get back up there as well. We have the foundations to do that. We need to invest in our skill base, we need to invest in our innovation system, we need to invest in the individual companies. At the heart of the development agency is creating a mechanism, a means, of working at greater velocity, in an agile and dynamic way, so that we can support companies like this.

We're living through a massive age of disruption, through AI and other related technologies, but, in that, there is opportunity as well, and we are well placed to grasp those opportunities. We have two AI growth zones, we have much of the hard infrastructure through the data centres that are going in, but we don't just want to host hard infrastructure, in the same way that we don't just want to host energy infrastructure; we want to get the benefit of it. That's the kind of strategy that will be the driving force for our Government.

Jayne Bryant (Labour, Casnewydd Islwyn)

Newport is at the heart of the world-leading south Wales semiconductor cluster and, over the next four years, the ambition is to grow the cluster revenues to over £1 billion and reach over 6,000 jobs, and this is a huge opportunity to grow local talent. As part of that, companies like KLA and Vishay are engaging with young people and, indeed, parents, because I think parents need to know what some of these jobs are as well: really good quality jobs in a growing sector, right on their doorstep. You've already mentioned the prospective STEM programme with Newport City Council, which is going to be an excellent idea, and I just wonder if you've seen the work that Dragons RFC have done, working with schools and the semiconductor industry, just to really harness that young talent. And what else will the Welsh Government do, working with your Cabinet Minister for Education and the Welsh Language, to bring all of this together to make sure we are harnessing that potential of local talent?

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

It's great to hear that the Dragons are involved. And that's precisely the way, I think, in which you maximise the potential for a cluster, when it puts down deep roots across society and when everyone feels that they're part of it. So, it's really great to hear that. We'll do everything that we can, certainly in the skills audit that we have already announced, and certainly with the skills summit, I'm sure that the sector's needs and opportunities will be at the core of that.

We're seeing growth, as has already been referred to, because of what's happening with AI, and, of course, quantum computing is not that far away now and quantum computing itself will drive demand for the products of this industry. So, we are in a really strong position here, but we should not rest on our laurels on the pipeline of talent and getting people excited and positive. We are good story-tellers as a nation, but sometimes our natural humility gets in the way of shouting about the fact that we have the world's leading cluster in compound semiconductors. That's a massive thing for a country of 3.1 million people. We're in pole position in a sector that is going to be critically important to the future, so we stand ready to do everything that we can as a Government.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

We are indeed a nation of story-tellers, but I'm going to ask for the Cabinet Minister's help now to rattle along through some other questions, so we can get through the order paper. [Laughter.]

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Question 4, Carmelo Colasanto.

Carmelo Colasanto (Reform UK, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

4. What action is the Welsh Government taking to support tourism in Sir Gaerfyrddin? OQ64310

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

The Welsh Government is determined to make the most of opportunities that arise from tourism and to do so in a sustainable way. We support tourism businesses in Sir Gaerfyrddin through Visit Wales activity, including marketing campaigns, funding and support to businesses and support for skills initiatives.

Carmelo Colasanto (Reform UK, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

Diolch, Minister. A constituent has contacted me recently outlining an extremely challenging financial position their family-run tourism business is currently facing, placing its future at serious risk of closing down. They previously secured a loan to support improvements aimed at enhancing the customer experience and visitor experience, and strengthening local tourism, however, a further application for a grant from Carmarthenshire County Council was unsuccessful as it did not meet the criteria of creating a new full-time job, despite the project's role in safeguarding existing employment. The owners currently pay themselves just over £1,000 a month as they prioritise reinvesting their income to sustain operations. Their monthly financial commitments are significant and are outweighed by their incoming funds. In addition, bookings have fallen by approximately 30 per cent year on year. This decline reflects a combination of factors, including rising fuel costs, cost-of-living pressures, policy uncertainty and concerns among visitors about travel conditions in Wales, such as fuel availability, the impact of the 20 mph speed limit on journey times and potential penalties. So, Minister, what reassurance can you give local businesses such as these that this Government is on their side?

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

I'm grateful for the opportunity to give that reassurance. We want to work as closely as we can with the tourism and wider hospitality sectors. They are vitally important sectors for us nationally, and in many key localities in Wales, including Sir Gaerfyrddin. I will be meeting with representatives of the tourism and hospitality sectors to talk about practical ways—short, medium and long term—that we can help them to realise their undoubted potential. In relation to the individual business concerned, if the Member can share with me the details, if they are agreeable to that, I will ask officials to see if there are any other means by which the issues that they have raised with you can be addressed.

Mike Hedges (Labour, Gŵyr Abertawe)

5. Which industries will the Cabinet Minister prioritise in developing the Welsh economy? OQ64235

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

We will prioritise areas with the greatest potential. Work is under way to establish an economic and fiscal commission to strengthen granular economic analysis, alongside developing a national development agency. This will help to better align investment, skills and innovation, supporting sustainable growth and high-quality job creation across Wales.

Mike Hedges (Labour, Gŵyr Abertawe)

Thank you for that answer. I believe the six key growth sectors in the world's economy are artificial intelligence and automation, renewable energy, digital health, fintech, advanced manufacturing and e-commerce. Does the Minister agree with me? We need an industrial strategy for each of these sectors, support for each of them, including grants, and, crucially, support for Welsh universities, which can provide both graduates and, crucially, academic research. What action is the Minister intending to take to support these sectors?

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

At the broad level, I think that many of the sectors that he refers to are clearly ones where there is huge economic potential globally and, indeed, for Wales. The point of my initial response was that I think we have to take it to a more specific level, because under renewable industries or green industries, et cetera, there are the subsegments. Wales will have a potential comparative competitive advantage in some of them—not in all—and we need to be focusing our efforts on growing those areas where we have an existing base or we can grow into the adjacent possible. It's the same with AI as well. We're probably not going to be competing with the hyperscalers or the frontier large language model firms like Anthropic, but in terms of the application of AI, there is great opportunity for us in developing through our AI growth zones and based on our existing area of specialisation. The role of universities is critical here in terms of spin-out firms. Certainly, our independent review of the sector, I'm sure, will be looking at the role of universities in our knowledge base and in terms of the wider economy.

Natasha Asghar (Conservative, Casnewydd Islwyn)

6. What are the Welsh Government's transport priorities for Newport and Islwyn? OQ64239

Mark Hooper (Plaid Cymru, Pen-y-bont Bro Morgannwg)

Our priorities are practical improvements people can see: better links to Newport city centre and stations, safer walking and cycling, reliable buses, and action on congestion. We will work with local and regional partners in Casnewydd Islwyn to deliver our shared priorities.

Natasha Asghar (Conservative, Casnewydd Islwyn)

Thank you for your response. Deputy Minister, we're all far too aware of the problems drivers face regularly on the M4 and around Newport. As far as I'm concerned, the M4 relief road remains the best option in alleviating the never-ending motoring mayhem. That must be a road-based solution, which Plaid has indeed promised, not, as this Government has already hinted at, closing motorway junctions. This will just add to the chaos and mayhem that businesses, residents and visitors all experience on a regular basis.

I recently received a letter from a resident in Rhymney about the M4 relief road, which drew my attention to the Nazzano method of tunnel expansion. I believe similar correspondence has also been sent to Welsh Government Ministers. For the benefit of Members here in the Chamber, the Nazzano method, which has been successfully used in Italy, allows tunnels to be widened while keeping them fully operational, by constructing a larger structure around the original bore. Whilst a relief road will remain my top and favourite solution, Deputy Minister, has any consideration been given to the Nazzano method as a potential way of addressing the M4's troubles? If not, why? And will you today rule out closing junctions along the M4 in Newport? Thank you.

Mark Hooper (Plaid Cymru, Pen-y-bont Bro Morgannwg)

Thank you, Natasha, and thank you for your supplementary as well. I just want to recognise that you've been talking about this issue in the last Senedd and in this Senedd, so you've been consistent in this and you've consistently said the same things. We've ruled out the M4 relief road, the black route, and that's because of environmental concerns, cost concerns and also being able to do things in a timely manner, because I think the people of Newport and people across Wales need a solution that can be deliverable, which is my focus in terms of what's going on.

The point you mentioned about the tunnelling methods I think is of interest, and it is something where we've had some references in Government already. I've got officials looking at that currently. It looks like it's something that's on the outer edge of what you can do. I think some of these things haven't been proven as a point yet, but they're things that we'd be keen to look at.

In terms of closing motorway junctions, I think when you start to change things, closing motorway junctions is a likely thing that will happen in terms of change, whether they are permanent closures or they're temporary closures. What we've got to recognise—and I think this is the critical thing, going back to the question from Vikki earlier—is that what's important is that we consult and we recognise. And when it comes to consultation, it's got to be a true consultation. I was asked a question yesterday by team members: how do we better consult? Well, the key thing is to listen, and I'm committed to listening to the concerns of the people of Newport and elsewhere to make sure we do the right thing.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Finally, question 7, Gareth Beer.

Gareth Beer (Reform UK, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

7. What action is the Welsh Government taking to support the development and growth of businesses in Sir Gaerfyrddin? OQ64300

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

Diolch, Gareth. We are supporting businesses in Carmarthenshire through investment in skills, town centres and major projects like Pentre Awel, alongside direct support for small firms. Our focus is on creating well-paid jobs, strengthening supply chains and ensuring that growth benefits communities across Llanelli and the wider county.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Do you have a supplementary?

Gareth Beer (Reform UK, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

Sorry, Llywydd, I haven't got one. Apologies.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Don't worry. Thank you, Cabinet Minister.

2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Education and the Welsh Language

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Let's move on now to our next set of questions: item 2, questions to the Cabinet Minister for Education and the Welsh Language. Question 1, Paul Marr.

Paul Marr (Reform UK, Ceredigion Penfro)

1. What is the Welsh Government doing to tackle anti-social behaviour in schools? OQ64280

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

Our 100-day plan will tackle the root causes of behavioural challenges, including attendance, well-being and wider needs, through a co-ordinated, whole-system approach. By enabling early intervention and aligning support services, our approach will enhance learning environments, boost engagement and attainment, while reducing workforce pressures and building confidence and well-being.

Paul Marr (Reform UK, Ceredigion Penfro)

Diolch, Minister, for your response. I certainly welcome early interventions. It was one of the root interventions in the prison service that worked extremely well. So, I absolutely welcome that.

However, Minister, parents in Ceredigion Penfro want to know why schools are increasingly being expected to deal with the threat of knife crime without proper resources. Policies and plans, with respect, Minister, do not stop blades. Will the Welsh Government commit today to funding preventable security measures, including protective equipment such as knife blankets and emergency response training?

You may say that we do not need to escalate to these measures at this moment. However, I remind you of the horrific knife attack on a teacher reported in the news very recently in Milford Haven. I am certain that the teacher in question would have welcomed any and all measures to adequately protect themselves.

And finally, Minister, in my 20 years in the prison service, attacks on staff with bladed instruments became a regular occurrence. The norm is what it became. So, I ask you, Minister: what assurance will this Government offer teachers that these rising numbers of incidents are not expected to be their new norm?

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

As I mentioned in my earlier answer, we are working on a national framework around these issues. Every learner has the right to feel safe and know they belong in a school, are able to attend, participate and achieve. The same is true of members of staff, and ensuring the safety and well-being of our school workforce is equally a priority for us. As part of this, we will be looking in detail at how incidents are managed and reported to understand the issues we are facing in significant detail. We are also working, as he may already know, with the four police forces across Wales and the pan-Wales weapons in schools programme to strengthen preventative approaches, intelligence sharing and early intervention to support safer, more positive behaviour across schools. And it's worth reiterating again that it is a criminal offence to carry a knife in a school.

Shav Taj (Labour, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

Minister, I think it's really important that we frame this issue properly, because while challenging behaviour is obviously a real concern, we're hearing very clearly from unions, but also staff on the ground, that it is increasingly linked to unmet needs, particularly around mental health and additional learning needs. Of course, our ALN reforms are about getting the right level of support in place early through a person-centred, needs-led system, but what teachers and teaching assistants are continuously telling us is that too often they're being left to manage increasingly complex needs without it. So while some may frame this purely as an issue of discipline, isn't the reality that where needs aren't being met early, those pressures are simply playing out and compounding in the classroom? With that in mind, how is the Government ensuring that mental health provision, including school counselling and wider ALN support, is being properly resourced on the ground so that we're backing the staff rather than simply expecting to absorb this one?

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

Thank you. I think the points that you have raised there are exactly the reasons why this programme will look at well-being, attendance and wider needs through a co-ordinated whole-system approach. She touches on ALN; that is a wider issue in our system, and that's precisely why we want to bring all of these areas together and to recognise the barriers to learning that are part of this area of concern for us. That's why we have framed our response in this way.

Elyn Stephens (Plaid Cymru, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

2. What steps is the Cabinet Minister taking to promote and increase the use of the Welsh language across communities in Afan Ogwr Rhondda? OQ64283

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

I want the Welsh language to belong to everyone in Afan Ogwr Rhondda. I want there to be access to the Welsh language, opportunity to use the Welsh language, and fair access to Welsh-medium education, working together with local partners. I will also respond to the Commission for Welsh-speaking Communities' second phase report by the end of the year.

Elyn Stephens (Plaid Cymru, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Thank you, Cabinet Minister, for that response. In the communities I represent, it isn't just a matter of learning Welsh when it comes to growing the language, but providing genuine opportunities every day for people to use the language confidently. As you said, the Welsh language belongs to all of us, whether we've just developed the confidence to say ‘bore da’, we're new Welsh speakers, or whether we're lifelong Welsh speakers.

A fortnight ago, an app was launched, Defnyddio Fy Nghymraeg, by Rhondda Cynon Taf language initiative and the council. It helps people to find opportunities to use the Welsh language, whatever their level of ability or experience. It brings activities and Welsh-speaking groups together in one place. I've downloaded the app and it's excellent, and I encourage all Members to download this app.

Practical resources led by the community like this are exactly the kind of support that we need outside of the traditional Welsh-speaking heartlands. So how will the Welsh Government ensure that similar initiatives are supported and that good practice is shared across communities like the ones in Afan Ogwr Rhondda?

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

Thank you very much. I've made a note to download that app, and I'll do so after this session. I do welcome the opportunity to talk about the importance of making it easy and accessible to find opportunities locally to use the Welsh language on a daily basis. This of course aligns with what we want to see as part of ‘Cymraeg 2050’. I will also ask my officials to look at that particular app and to consider any lessons that we can learn from it.

It's also important to note that the Commission for Welsh-Speaking Communities is encouraging and emphasising fun opportunities to use the Welsh language, ones that are easy and pleasurable for people to use. HAPUS is a good acronym in Welsh, because we want people to enjoy the experience of using the Welsh language in their communities and have easy access to those opportunities. So, I will look at the app as part of that.

But I also want to emphasise, I think, that we do want to ensure that the Welsh language truly belongs to us all, and that that isn't just a slogan, but something that will feel like a lived reality, wherever in Wales you happen to live. And that is why we have already started to conduct a review, for example, into barriers to fair access to Welsh-medium education, and that is why, too, we have been so determined that this work is cross-governmental and that it belongs to us all as a Government, as it belongs to everyone in Wales.

Steve Bayliss (Reform UK, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

I respect the Welsh language and recognise its importance to our national heritage, but respect for the language does not remove the duty to demonstrate value for money. My constituents in Afan Ogwr Rhondda expect evidence that public spending delivers real outcomes, not simply larger budgets. Where millions of pounds are being invested in promoting the Welsh language, every pound of taxpayers' money should deliver measurable results and genuine value. Can the Cabinet Minister, therefore, explain what measurable evidence the Welsh Government has that this investment is increasing the everyday use of Welsh in communities such as Afan Ogwr Rhondda, rather than simply expanding programme strategies and administration? Will she commit to publishing, constituency by constituency, how much public money has been spent, what outcomes have been achieved and how value for money has been assessed, so that this Senedd can judge successfully on evidence, not aspiration? Thank you.

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

Diolch yn fawr. I'm glad that he too respects the Welsh language and its place in our national life. I too am keen that every Welsh pound delivers value for the people of Wales, and that's why we have committed to making sure that learners in our country can access the Welsh language, become bilingual learners, leave school able to use Welsh. That's why too we're looking at opportunities to build the rural economy, to offer jobs in communities where people can use their Welsh. That is part and parcel of it being yn perthyn i ni i gyd—it belongs to us all. And I would invite him as well to look at some of the statistics I've been looking at about the support that there is in Welsh communities for those opportunities to learn Welsh, and to use it and to value it, particularly amongst young people aged 18-24. This is at around 80 per cent to 85 per cent. We are building for the future here, respecting our language and making sure it can be used everywhere.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

I now call on the party spokespeople to question the Cabinet Minister. First of all, Reform UK's spokesperson, Helen Jenner.

Helen Jenner (Reform UK, Bangor Conwy Môn)

Diolch, Lywydd. Gweinidog Cabinet, the real issue when it comes to teachers is, in fact, retention as opposed to recruitment, and poor pupil behaviour, as we've heard from other people in this Chamber today, is one of the factors driving teachers out of the profession, particularly in secondary schools. Based on my experience of different schools in north Wales, for example, some schools have consistent, effective behaviour systems in place, but some don't. Inevitably, the schools with stricter rules and clearer, consistent boundaries have better educational outcomes for pupils and higher levels of teacher retention. Of course, not all parents have the ability or transport options to transfer their children from one badly run school to a better one, meaning many children receive a poor educational experience based simply on where they live. Quite often, for teachers as well, a bad experience of one school puts them off teaching for life.

So, clearly, we cannot simply leave it within the power of individual schools anymore, because I believe, as I'm sure we all believe here, that every child is entitled to attend a calm and consistent learning environment regardless of where they live, and every teacher should feel safe at work. So, my question is: how exactly does the Cabinet Minister propose to bring all schools up to standard? You mentioned earlier a behaviour framework. Will this be in law, or will it just be guidance up to the interpretation of individual schools? Diolch.

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

Retention—you are quite right, retention is a key issue for us, and it will be the focus of a lot of our work. Recruitment tends to be the thing that gains the headlines. Retention is also crucially important. I agree with her that it does vary at the moment, which is why we are working so closely with partners in schools and local authorities to develop a framework that works and builds on what has been effective practice in schools across Wales. I agree with her too that every student has the right to feel safe at school, as I was saying earlier on, and equally that the workforce needs to feel safe at work. These are considerations that will feed into our framework. I am willing to look at anything that makes this work. At the moment, we are looking at this framework, because we do have good practice and good knowledge and good research to build on, and that's where I'm determined to start.

Helen Jenner (Reform UK, Bangor Conwy Môn)

Diolch yn fawr. I agree, and I think that working with some schools that have excellent behaviour policies in place, and having them lead on that, would be a fantastic idea. Diolch yn fawr.

You've announced statutory guidance on the restriction of mobile phones in schools—this very much feeds into discipline—but you have also made it clear, on that basis, that individual schools will decide how these restrictions are implemented. So, this feeds into my previous question about inconsistencies here. So, that means that some schools could introduce a complete ban, while others, just a few miles away, could adopt a far more relaxed approach. I think parents would want clarity and consistency. Again, it's a bit of a postcode lottery if you've got some schools with a phone ban, and some of them allowing pupils to use at break and lunch, for example. How will the Government ensure that pupils across Wales are protected by the same high standards in this regard, rather, again, than leaving each school to develop its own policy?

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

Diolch. As I said at the time that we launched an intention to issue guidance and consultation on this, I am keen that all headteachers hear that I will support them if they want to introduce restrictions on the use of mobile phones, including restrictions across the school site. And if, after we have issued this guidance, we find that we need to go further and need to legislate, I'm also willing to look at that. I think there are some restrictions, particularly around monitoring medical conditions and that kind of thing, where we need to be sure that we don't close off that option. So, as we issue that guidance and consult on that guidance, I'd welcome feedback from schools, but I think the starting point for me was that there wasn't guidance, there wasn't consistency, there wasn't a clear national message, and now there is.

Helen Jenner (Reform UK, Bangor Conwy Môn)

Okay, diolch yn fawr. And I think that some schools, again, have excellent policies in place, and we can learn from them going forward. Diolch yn fawr.

So, my final question: during an appearance on ITV Wales's Sharp End, I asked one of your Plaid Cymru colleagues whether your Government's commitment to provide a library in every school would apply to secondary schools—this is something close to my heart, obviously—as well as primary schools, and he confirmed that it would. So, my question, of course, was off the back of the fact that I've received multiple reports of secondary schools closing libraries and using the space for other educational provision, such as behaviour units. Can you confirm to the Senedd that what your colleague said is indeed Welsh Government policy? And if it is, will funding be ring-fenced, and how will the Welsh Government audit schools to make sure the money is actually spent on delivering libraries, rather than being absorbed into wider school budgets?

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

Our manifesto commitment is quite explicit that, in this Senedd, we will introduce a library in all primary schools, but I'm glad that my fellow Member, whoever that was, has an ambition also to include this in secondary schools. Because one of the key things, particularly around reading, that we have to make sure is that there is joy in it and that an ability to follow your delight in terms of reading, if you like, transfers particularly from year 6 in primary school to year 7 in secondary school. So, it's an interesting idea that I'm looking forward to discussing further.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Welsh Labour spokesperson, Lynne Neagle.

Lynne Neagle (Labour, Sir Fynwy Torfaen)

Cabinet Minister, I am, as I've said to you before, proud of our record on mental health support in schools: our statutory whole-school approach to mental health, the child and adolescent mental health services's inreach service working across schools in Wales, and school counselling for all children and young people aged year 6 and above. Our commitment to independent school counselling is enshrined in primary legislation, which is a first for any country. But there's always more to do, and that's why the review of the school counselling toolkit is so vital.

Now, you wrote to me on Monday about the toolkit, which has been produced in collaboration with school counselling leads and the British Association of Counselling and Psychotherapy, which is the leading counselling accreditation organisation in the UK. And can I declare an interest, Llywydd, as I am enrolled on a level 3 certificate in counselling studies course at Cardiff and Vale College, which is accredited by BACP? Now, you said in your letter that you will consult on the refreshed toolkit when you are, and I quote, 'satisfied that the toolkit reflects your priorities for the well-being of learners'. Now, given that the work on the toolkit has been undertaken by the experts, funded by Welsh Government, in partnership with local authority counselling leads, in what way would you anticipate it not being in line with your priorities? And would you agree with me that nothing, including ministerial or political priorities, should come before children's mental health?

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

Diolch yn fawr. I don't think she should consider my remarks as some antipathy towards the idea of counselling in schools, but I am keen, as a very new Minister, to understand in detail the implications of the work that I am doing. And I'm focusing, in the first instance, as you'd expect, on the first 100 days' priorities, which is not to indicate at all that mental health, particularly of young people—. And I wish her well in completing that qualification—more school councillors, I think, is what we would all like to see.

But mental health is a key part, too, of the behaviour framework I was mentioning earlier on. These things come as a group of issues we need to deal with in a thoughtful manner. And building on the well-being framework that I know has been well received in schools is something that I want to look at. Diolch yn fawr.

Lynne Neagle (Labour, Sir Fynwy Torfaen)

Thank you for that answer, and I'm grateful for your commitment that you want to build on the well-being framework. And, of course, it can't just sit with schools, which I know is something that you recognise. This has to be a system-wide approach to supporting young people, and involves those links with mental health services and support in the community.

Now, there was previously a ministerial board, jointly chaired by myself and the previous Deputy Minister for Mental Health and Well-being. And while I don't expect you to inherit all the arrangements that were in place under the previous Government, I think it is important that there are cross-Government mechanisms to drive progress in this work and to make sure that milestones are met.

So, I'd like to ask you what discussions you've had with your colleague the Minister for mental health and well-being, and how you intend to take a cross-Government, system-wide approach to supporting the mental health and well-being of our learners?

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

Thank you. And I have had a number of—. Oh, they're not there. I have had a number of meetings, particularly with both Deputy Ministers involved in health. And this is an area that I'm interested in pursuing. I'm also particularly interested in looking at some of the models at a local authority level, where there has been a determined and careful effort to bring together education services and social services, and health services, to look in the round at what individual learners and schools need. I think there's a lot to build on there, which plays very well, I think, in this area of concern for her, and, I know, for schools, parents and learners across the country as well.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Welsh Conservative spokesperson, Sam Rowlands.

Sam Rowlands (Conservative, Fflint Wrecsam)

Diolch, Lywydd. Deputy Minister, last year, Welsh Government funded 43,500 learners to attend courses at further education colleges in Wales. The actual number of learners enrolled last year was 47,500 learners. Some 4,000 learners were not funded to attend the courses that they wished to attend. And in this academic year, in September, it's predicted that 50,000 learners will enrol in courses in FE colleges across Wales—a very welcome number, of course, but funding only sits at 46,000 learners currently.

Colleges are therefore faced with a stark choice of either finding around £13 million internally, putting learners on waiting lists, or turning learners away, with, of course, a risk of driving up those not in education, employment or training. So, Deputy Minister, could you tell us what you expect to happen here? Are you expecting waiting lists in colleges to grow, or will additional funding be found to support these additional places?

Cefin Campbell (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

Thank you for that question, Sam.

Cefin Campbell (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

I fully recognise that FE colleges have seen significant increases in learner numbers in recent years. And I also recognise that they're experiencing funding challenges and pressures due to these increases, and we also forecast further increases in the 2026-27 academic year.

Now, Medr has already allocated an additional investment of £6.25 million in the 2026-27 financial year, and provided flexibility between funding streams to recognise increased participation numbers in tertiary education within FE. And Medr, as you would expect, is monitoring the position closely, and we will consider providing additional funding, should it be available, as part of our wider consideration of the overall Government budget position. The situation will become clearer, of course, in September, but certainly by November, when enrolment numbers are confirmed. We will decide at that time what course of action we will take as a Government.

Sam Rowlands (Conservative, Fflint Wrecsam)

Thank you for your response, Deputy Minister. You will, of course, have seen this trend previously, as you were a member of the Children, Young People and Education Committee. When you were on that committee, you were challenging the chief executive of Medr on avoiding putting students on waiting lists. Of course, it's welcome to have some additional funding in this year—the £6.25 million that you mentioned—but that is some way off the £30 million that is required. Of course, we don't want to see students on waiting lists, especially those who are eager to learn, because we want to see more students learning, progressing through that process and then into work. When you were on that CYPE committee, Deputy Minister, you highlighted the £25 million, at that point, of unfunded delivery that colleges were having to face. So, there's still a funding gap and it's still likely for students to be put on waiting lists if that funding isn't made available. You were keen to see those waiting lists eradicated when you weren't in Government. Has your position now changed?

Cefin Campbell (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

Well, we are keen to make sure that as many learners get the opportunity to follow their ambitions. We know, as I've mentioned already, that FE colleges are facing pressures. I did say that we will be keeping a keen eye on developments. We won't know the exact situation until September, but certainly by November. I'm in regular talks and discussions with Medr. We know the challenge coming down the line. We are preparing contingency plans as we speak. We want to support as many learners into FE colleges, into apprenticeships, and into higher education as well. It is important that we provide information to young people about the different learning pathways that are available to them, and to support them as best we can. I can't pre-empt at the moment what those pressures will be in September, but we are preparing plans for any eventualities.

Gareth Beer (Reform UK, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

3. What action is the Welsh Government taking to improve educational outcomes in Sir Gaerfyrddin? OQ64302

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

Diolch. Improving educational outcomes in Sir Gaerfyrddin, and, indeed, in every school across Wales, is a core mission of this Government. Our new literacy and numeracy plan will provide clarity on what children should learn and when, strengthening progression across the system.

Gareth Beer (Reform UK, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

Diolch for that answer. A key point of good education is good teachers, and, as has already been alluded to, we are having trouble retaining them. They are under a lot of pressure, from ALN pressures to a lack of class discipline. So, what are we going to do to retain the good teachers, to keep education, and better education, here in Sir Gaerfyrddin and Wales? Diolch.

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

I think one key part of this is the way we tend to talk about teaching. I tend to say it is the most important job that anybody can enter into in our society. If more of us talked in those terms of teachers, I think the environment in which people made their career choices might well change. That isn't to say that there aren't challenges, particularly post COVID, in our schools, around well-being, around ALN, behaviour and workload. Now, these are all issues that are priority areas for us. We've made some announcements already in relation to our 100-day plan.

I've had several meetings with unions over the last few days, and acknowledged that we have been talking particularly about workload for a very long time. I think these issues are so interconnected that we all have to understand the various elements that contribute to a profession people want to join and stay in, and those things that are a disincentive for so doing, and being honest about those and tackling them. But I think a very good step would be to acknowledge the importance of teachers in our society.

Alun Cox (Plaid Cymru, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

4. What steps is the Cabinet Minister taking to ensure that universities have a sustainable funding model that will ensure that prospective students from Afan Ogwr Rhondda have the widest possible opportunities to attend higher education? OQ64296

Cefin Campbell (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

Thank you very much for the question. We are taking forward commissioning a broad review of high education funding within the first 100 days of Government, with the aim of ensuring that the system is financially sustainable for the benefit of prospective students in Afan Ogwr Rhondda and the country as a whole.

Alun Cox (Plaid Cymru, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Thank you, Deputy Minister. As you will know, many of our higher education institutions are going through continued periods of cutbacks, redundancies and course closures. As a former Unison officer at the University of South Wales until very recently, I saw the effects that these cuts were having on the fabric of the sector. Not only are redundancies at these institutions often concentrated in support functions, robbing the locality of good jobs, but they are also leading to course closures and narrowing of potential options, which can itself lead to further reduction in the participation rate in Wales. Will the Minister outline steps that the Government could take to ensure that our institutions can broaden their offer and begin to close the participation gap in Wales?

Cefin Campbell (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

Diolch. Higher education is central to Wales's social and economic future, supporting skills, research, innovation and regional growth. Our eight universities are also anchor institutions in their regions, employing thousands of people. The University of South Wales in your region employs about 2,850 people, which is a sizeable employer. We also recognise the system is under significant strain with rising costs and constrained income, which is why we believe a comprehensive review of the funding and organisation of universities in Wales is required for them to be ready to face the challenges of the next decade and beyond. But we also recognise the need to look at the sustainability of the student finance system and how it works for students, graduates and the public purse.

You talked about universities broadening their offer. As you know, they are autonomous institutions and they decide alone their academic portfolios, but I know Medr has published recently an analysis of provision across our universities, and I will continue to work with them and universities to ensure they're delivering for our economy and social prosperity.

You also mentioned the unions. I'm looking forward to meeting the unions in the next couple of weeks, and I will endeavour to have a close relationship with them in the spirit of social partnership.

On your final point, about closing the participation gap, which is absolutely crucial, we've made it clear in our manifesto that we want to increase the numbers of Welsh-domiciled students attending higher education in Wales, particularly from more disadvantaged communities, and I'm sure both of us will support that aim.

Benjamin McKenna (Reform UK, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

I'd like to declare a relevant interest as I'm in the final stages of a Master's degree at the University of South Wales. One of the biggest issues facing graduates in Wales at the moment is graduate recruitment. It's been described as a crisis on a UK level, with an ever-growing number of applicants chasing shrinking numbers of vacancies in the system. This is partly caused by AI causing some companies to scale back on the number of junior staff that they recruit. So, in light of this, what is the Government doing to try and resolve issues in graduate recruitment to ensure that students from Afan Ogwr Rhondda can get a return on their investment when it comes to education? And what conversations are you having with the Cabinet Minister for Enterprise, Connectivity and Energy to strengthen ties between Welsh businesses and Welsh higher education institutions to help both organisations enjoy the benefits of our skilled young people? Thank you.

Cefin Campbell (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

Thank you. You raise a really important point, and we know that graduate recruitment into businesses and into work has been challenging. We've seen a flatlining economy. We've seen SMEs in particular finding it difficult to take apprenticeships on, and also recruit graduates as well, because they face the costs, and the increased bills as well that they have to face, and national insurance increases as well. So, there have been many, many challenges around the economy in Wales and across the UK. But I am having regular conversations with the Minister for enterprise because I do believe that skills and apprenticeships, tertiary education, play an important role in upskilling our young people, fulfilling their ambitions and making them better placed for the place of work. So, what we need to do is to improve economic growth in Wales so that we can not only offer opportunities here in Wales, but also track those who've left Wales, who want to return to Wales to seek employment here.

David Mills (Reform UK, Brycheiniog Tawe Nedd)

5. What progress has the Cabinet Minister made towards introducing a foundational literacy and numeracy plan? OQ64252

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

We are progressing the development of a new foundational literacy and numeracy plan in line with our commitment. I will issue a statement on the plan and timelines before the end of the school term. I will also write to schools, settings and local authorities to update them.

David Mills (Reform UK, Brycheiniog Tawe Nedd)

Thank you. For 27 years, Labour has been responsible for education in Wales, and the results speak for themselves, with the lowest PISA scores in the UK, the poorest post-16 educational outcomes and Welsh pupils performing at a level comparable only to the most disadvantaged children in England. Estyn has also highlighted that roughly 20 per cent of pupils leave primary school functionally illiterate. These figures are frightening and a rapid change of policy is required. Plaid Cymru committed to introducing a foundational literacy and numeracy plan. So, can the Cabinet Secretary set out a clear timetable for bringing that plan forward? And, more importantly, how will it move beyond simply publishing another plan but instead deliver measurable improvements in literacy and numeracy, including ending the use of discredited teaching methods such as cueing, which were promoted under the previous Welsh Government?

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

Diolch for the question. I think, as I said in my original statement around my priorities, this is a problem that isn't with our learners. Our learners are able to achieve and have potential comparable to anywhere in the world. It isn't the lack of a willing workforce either. It is, I think, a lack of understanding of the expectations around progression in literacy and numeracy, and that's precisely why we are introducing this literacy and numeracy foundational plan. We need to understand the skills and aptitudes that learners have when they enter the school system. We need to understand how to support them to achieve as we would like them to throughout that journey, and that is what this plan is designed to do. We are working on the detail now. I think the Member is asking for speed. I think, on day two as Minister, I wrote to schools saying, 'We are working on this plan now. We will update you by the end of the summer term and the framework will be introduced in the autumn.' I hope that reassures him that we are working, as we are fond to say, at pace.

Sarah Rees (Plaid Cymru, Pen-y-bont Bro Morgannwg)

As a self-professed bibliophile, I very much welcome the manifesto commitment for a library in every primary school. It's crucial that literacy skills are developed outside the classroom to encourage a love of reading, like mine, from an early age. However, the foundational literacy and numeracy plan does risk assuming that all children enter education with the same experiences. Schemes such as Bookstart by BookTrust Cymru help parents read with babies and toddlers, ensuring the youngest in society have access to the opportunities that they deserve from the very start. I'd like to ask how you'll work with organisations like BookTrust Cymru to ensure all children have access to such schemes before starting school, so that their opportunities are not limited before they enter formal education?

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

I think that is a fair point. There's a lot of expertise in the system and in Wales to support learners with their reading. I would refer back also to my earlier answer about the understanding, as learners embark on their career at school, to understand at that point what they need and how we can ensure their progress in reading but also in the wider skills that they will need.

Natasha Asghar (Conservative, Casnewydd Islwyn)

6. What steps is the Welsh Government taking to boost the number of apprenticeships? OQ64240

Cefin Campbell (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

Thank you for the question.

Cefin Campbell (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

Through Medr, we are strengthening apprenticeship delivery, with changes from August 2027 to improve flexibility, respond to employer demand and widen access, helping to create more opportunities across Wales. This is supported by a national skills audit and future skills summit to inform future priorities and ensure provision reflects employer needs.

Natasha Asghar (Conservative, Casnewydd Islwyn)

Thank you so much for your response. Deputy Minister, university isn't for everyone and apprenticeships are a great route into the workplace for those who want to earn and learn at the same time. In Plaid's 2026 manifesto, the party pledged to expand work experience and apprenticeships, yet, based on a recent conversation I had with a business in Newport, I fear that constraints with the apprenticeship levy will hamper those efforts going forward. Jane Blackwell, who is the franchisee of five McDonald's restaurants in the area, explained to me that, despite wanting to take on more apprenticeships and take part in more youth work, which is something she's very passionate about, due to the very strict criteria to release funds from the levy, that's stopping her from going forward. This is despite Jane paying vast amounts of money into the levy itself. We have a situation here where a business owner with multiple sites is contributing towards the apprenticeship fund, but isn't able to access it to take on her own apprenticeships; it is, frankly, absurd, Deputy Minister. Clearly, there needs to be a change in the rules here. So, Deputy Minister, will you commit to meeting with Jane to discuss this issue and iron out the problems to start getting more young people in my constituency into work? Ultimately, this won’t just benefit Newport and Islwyn, but Members across the Senedd as well. Thank you.

Cefin Campbell (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

Welsh Government is currently investing £151 million in apprenticeships in the current financial year to support delivery across Wales, because we believe that apprenticeships are a cornerstone of Wales's post-16 skills system and a key policy, as you mentioned, for economic growth, fair work and productivity. They provide high-quality routes into employment, supporting people of all ages and helping employers develop the workforce they need. However—and this relates to the point you make—we need to adapt the current apprenticeship offer to reflect changing economic needs, and the needs of businesses in particular, which means that a new apprenticeship programme from August 2027 will deliver a more flexible and responsive model for employers and delivery partners, shaped by extensive engagement, led by Medr.

Now, this reform should be seen as part of a wider drive to create clearer pathways, improve parity of esteem with academic routes and strengthen alignment between skills and economic growth. Alongside this, we are undertaking a national skills audit, which will ensure that our approach is grounded in robust evidence of workplace needs so that we can tailor our apprenticeships delivery to the growth sectors of the future.

We will also be organising a future skills summit in the autumn, and this relates to the Member's question earlier on, about bringing employers and partners together to help shape future delivery and identify the opportunities for early action. And I will be saying more about the way that reform is going to take form and also the skills audit and the skills summit in an oral statement in the next couple of weeks.

Ken Skates (Labour, Fflint Wrecsam)

Minister, traditionally and historically, Welsh apprenticeships have been amongst the most successful in the UK in terms of completion rates—they've been sky-high compared to other parts of the UK. And apprenticeships are vitally important in driving down those stubborn figures related to people not in education or training. But your supplementary budget doesn't give any additional investment to FE learners, so what efforts are you making to secure more money for apprenticeships and for our colleges and learners?

Cefin Campbell (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

We are committed to apprenticeships. As I mentioned earlier on, £151 million is already invested in programmes to support young people into work and into apprenticeships and FE as well. Now, it is worrying—you mentioned NEETs—that we have about 13.7 per cent of 16 to 24-year-olds in Wales currently NEET, and I welcomed the publication of the Alan Milburn report recently. We recognise the growing risk of young people becoming disengaged from education, employment or training, alongside the pressures facing further education providers. So, this is something I'm taking seriously, something I'm passionate about. And when Natasha and I and others were members of the Children, Young People and Education Committee, we looked at post-16 pathways, and one of the important points that came out of that inquiry that we did was that we need to get messages in earlier to young people about the different options available to them. Apprenticeships are one; FE and HE as well. So, in the round, we are looking at all of this. It's still early days and, obviously, I will be having talks with the Minister for finance to see what else we can invest in the system so that we support our young people better moving forward.

Kiera Marshall (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

I thank the Member for raising this issue. Apprenticeships are a key part of improving opportunities for learners of all ages, but particularly to tackle the concerningly high level of young people not in employment, education or training, as you've highlighted. Again and again, I hear from constituents about how there's just nothing for young people. Only last night, I spoke to a constituent in Grangetown who is worried about his younger brothers and saying how they've just got nothing to do—they spend day after day hanging about on the streets with their friends. While we saw the last Government play with the apprenticeship figures to make it appear like they'd reached their apprenticeship target, failing the young people who really needed those opportunities, I'm glad to see this Government working towards providing learners with access to education and training that suits them. I wonder if the Deputy Minister could tell me what work is being done to ensure that junior apprenticeships are available and taken up as well by young learners.

Cefin Campbell (Plaid Cymru, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

Thank you for the question. I'm a big fan of junior apprenticeships. When I was education spokesperson in opposition, I fully supported the last Government's initiative around junior apprenticeships, and I'd like to see junior apprenticeships rolled out across the whole of Wales. It started as a pilot and then it moved on to other colleges, but I think it should be a universal provision. It targets the 14 to 16 age group, which is the most vulnerable, and we know that many of them are at risk of disengagement. So, by offering them opportunities to have some work experience plus mentoring and support from FE colleges and schools, we can potentially take them from the brink of becoming NEET to becoming learners that are well supported and motivated, so that we can ensure that they realise their potential. Because every young person has the potential to become something far more important than some of their own cultural and social backgrounds have led them to believe. We must invest in them to make sure that they do achieve those ambitions, and junior apprenticeships are certainly one way forward to doing that.

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Thank you, Deputy Minister. The final question is question 7—Lindsay Whittle.

Lindsay Whittle (Plaid Cymru, Blaenau Gwent Caerffili Rhymni)

7. What steps is the Welsh Government taking to provide pupils with more opportunities to learn about nature, biodiversity and the environment in school? OQ64313

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

Diolch yn fawr. Learning about the climate and nature emergency is mandatory, giving children a strong platform to learn about nature, biodiversity and the environment. Nine out of 10 schools in Wales take part in the Eco-Schools programme, helping to provide rich, outdoor and locally relevant learning experiences to learners across Wales.

Lindsay Whittle (Plaid Cymru, Blaenau Gwent Caerffili Rhymni)

Thank you, Minister, for the response. The system in England, in fact, has recently passed a new natural history GCSE, which has a practical, hands-on focus, specifically requiring a minimum of 20 hours of mandatory outdoor fieldwork to teach students active skills in data collection, biodiversity tracking and conservation management. Here in Wales, of course, we have a magnificent natural landscape, from our peatlands and valleys to our unique coastal salt marshes, which would provide the ultimate living classroom. Now, given that these structured, hands-on scientific skills are exactly what employers are looking for to bridge the green skills gap, does the Minister agree that a similar dedicated qualification could be a fantastic tool to connect our young people with nature, improve their well-being away from screens and give them a direct pathway into our growing Welsh green economy?

Anna Brychan (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Penarth)

Diolch yn fawr, and I think the Member makes a very persuasive argument for Wales being the best location, potentially, for an open-air classroom anywhere in the world. It is an interesting development around that GCSE in England, and I agree that young people need to develop an appreciation and understanding of their local environment and that we need to think of that in the context of practical skills and scientific understanding and environmental awareness that will support the kinds of jobs that the Minister for enterprise, infrastructure and connectivity laid out earlier on. There's an interesting link there—. And he's not there now, so, if I got the title the wrong way around, it doesn't matter. [Laughter.] But there is a valuable link there as well to our economic plans and prospects.

So, I would say, though, that the opportunities for learners to engage with the natural world, sustainability and climate change issues are already embedded across the Curriculum for Wales and find expression in our GCSE geography and sciences GCSEs. While these qualifications are kept under constant review, and that conversation is one that I'd happily have with him, I am also keen that these crucial considerations, this crucial knowledge, both for the future of the planet and for the future of the economy, are also present in the wider curriculum and not just housed in one part of it.

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Thank you, Ministers.

3. Questions to the Senedd Commission

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Item 3, questions to the Senedd Commission. Question 1, Sarah Rees.

Sarah Rees (Plaid Cymru, Pen-y-bont Bro Morgannwg)

1. What training does the Commission provide to Members on standards and behaviour, and how is the success of this training monitored? OQ64279

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Diolch, Sarah. Dirprwy Lywydd, the Commission provides Members with training and guidance on standards and behaviour from the outset of each Senedd. Following the election, this was included at multiple points in the welcome, the onboarding and the induction programme, including pre-arrival information, the successful candidate pack, welcome activity and briefings, and phase 1 training within the first fortnight. This covered the code of conduct, register of interests, use of Senedd resources, dignity and respect, leadership and behaviour as employers. Attendance and completion are monitored through booking and attendance records, including through the learning management system.

Sarah Rees (Plaid Cymru, Pen-y-bont Bro Morgannwg)

The Commission does set high standards and they're grounded in the Nolan principles and in our duty to respect dignity and equality. These principles underpin public confidence in Government, which is why maintaining high standards is essential, but that's only half the battle. Embedding them in day-to-day practice is where public trust is won or lost. Training cannot be a passive tick-box exercise. It must be an active, continuous commitment to sustaining confidence in our democracy, not only in the standards we hold each other to, but in the standards the public rightly expect of us. These principles must be lived throughout every term, not simply acknowledged at induction.

Transparency and robust accountability are equally important. Without rigorous oversight, these principles risk becoming words on paper rather than behaviours in practice. Upholding high standards is a serious responsibility and it cannot be taken lightly. I recognise the training provision outlined, but could the Member clarify how the Commission assesses its impact on behaviour and on upholding the integrity of the Senedd?

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Yes, indeed. Thank you for that supplementary. And it is important to note that this is an ongoing programme, it's not a one-off, and it's not done for the sake of it, either, because we recognise in the Commission that the awareness of legal and reputational risks is key for every single Member within the Senedd, both in relation to their role as a Member, but also as an employer as well. So, that training is available to all Members on an ongoing basis, and they can refresh and update that training as well. So, that'll continue throughout the duration of the four-year Senedd term for Members and also for their staff as well.

And we do recognise, by the way, that Members need information at the right time; there's been a welter of information thrown at Members in the initial few weeks, and my thanks to all those members of the Commission staff who provided that as well, but we recognise we're going to need to come back. But there's been a good uptake initially, I have to say, in terms of code of conduct training on live courses, and also encouraging around dignity and respect as well, and some Members who weren't able to attend have sought to have the information then sent to them as well.

So, I definitely agree with the Member in saying this needs to be an ongoing process, and it's in the interests of each Member as an employer, as well as within this place.

Niamh Salkeld (Plaid Cymru, Blaenau Gwent Caerffili Rhymni)

2. What discussions has the Commission had with staff and their representatives on mitigating extreme heat on the estate? OQ64273

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Thank you. The Commission engages regularly with staff and recognised trade unions on health, safety and well-being issues, including the impact of extreme heat. Correspondence on the recent extreme heat was shared with trade union representatives. The Commission has also published guidance on the intranet for Members, their support staff and Commission staff, covering how to stay comfortable in hot weather and how to manage room temperatures across the estate. This is supported by practical measures, including access to cooling spaces, hydration and flexible working.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

In addition, the Senedd Commission’s leadership team, comprising all its senior managers, has had briefings, which have ensured a co-ordinated response across the organisation, with all heads of service actively engaging with their managers and teams to share information, provide support and check on staff welfare during periods of extreme heat. We'll continue to work in partnership with staff representatives to review these arrangements and to ensure that this estate remains a safe and comfortable working environment.

Niamh Salkeld (Plaid Cymru, Blaenau Gwent Caerffili Rhymni)

Diolch. Last week, Wales saw record temperatures, with amber and red alerts issued across the country. As the climate crisis worsens, these kinds of extreme weather events are only going to become more common, yet unlike many other countries, Britain has no maximum legal workplace temperature, only a minimum one. The Trades Union Congress and other trade unions have been clear that workplaces need to be better prepared for a hotter climate and, as temperatures rise, that conversation is only going to become more important. Workers deserve a safe and comfortable place to work, including during periods of extreme heat.

During my walk around the estate last week, I saw several places where the air conditioning wasn't working at all and needed to be fixed. I was especially concerned for staff as well in the canteen and the food areas, who are already working in hotter conditions because of the kitchens, but seemed to just have fans to keep them cool. So, Llywydd, what discussion has the Commission had with staff and trade unions, which you've already alluded to, about these working conditions during periods of extreme heat, and what steps are being taken to ensure that this estate is prepared for the future heatwaves that we're going to see?

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

I recognise the long-standing trade union campaign around maximum heat. That's not within our gift here, to take that forward. I should, Dirprwy Lywydd, refer Members to my own declaration of interest around union membership as well—there are several unions there. But what we have been able to do is to work with the TUS, the trade union side here, in an established partnership approach, which is the way we do it here within this estate. We've engaged in all these health and safety matters, including temperature issues, including the recent incidents as well. So, that joint working has included committee discussions and working groups addressing the environmental conditions on the estate. In the very recent extreme red weather warnings—and we may see more of these in times to come—we made adjustments to working patterns and locations in discussion with the trade union side, we put in place additional support for vulnerable staff, we took forward business continuity planning in relation to things like school closures that were affecting members of staff as well, and also made sure that this is a safe working environment. We'll keep that partnership approach going.

Gwyn Williams (Plaid Cymru, Gŵyr Abertawe)

3. What consideration has the Commission given to opening an office in Swansea? OQ64281

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Diolch, Gwyn. There has been no Senedd Commission activity undertaken in relation to opening an office in Swansea. [Interruption.] Diolch, Mike. During the financial year 2023-24, the Senedd Commission Ways of Working programme created a work stream to ensure an effective regional base for outreach, public information, education and translation services in north Wales, and also to explore potential opportunities for developing the Senedd Commission’s regional footprint over time and bringing forward proposals for doing so. Whilst the north Wales office move to Llandudno Junction was successfully completed in summer 2024, no further work has been undertaken to explore further regional offices at this time as, following extensive engagement with Members in the sixth Senedd, there was no identified demand at that time for such a facility.

Gwyn Williams (Plaid Cymru, Gŵyr Abertawe)

Diolch yn fawr. Whilst the Government itself has an office in Penllergaer, which we in Swansea are very much hoping will move to the city centre in order to boost its flagging economy, the Senedd Commission, as you rightly say, does not. And it's important, as you say, that people across the country feel engaged with our politics, and therefore it's important that the Senedd boosts its engagement in different parts. I've long believed, as Swansea voted for devolution and this city has not, that this fancy building, which we now reside in, should have been located in Swansea. But due to the cost, it's too late to do that now, it would be impossible to build another one. But as John Davies mentioned last week, the economy of Swansea is slipping further and further behind that of Cardiff, and anything, anything at all, that you can throw the way of Swansea would be broadly welcomed. Swansea would support very much the opening of an office, and please, please, please, will you consider, again, doing so? Thank you.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

The Member, in his sterling advocacy for all things Swansea, has received both cheers and jeers during his contribution, from different Members from different areas. Can I just say that we always keep alive to this? There is a commitment from the Senedd Commission to review, as and when the need is identified and arises. We simply haven't undertaken any work at the moment because, in the sixth Senedd, they looked at this and there was no identified need.

But can I just say on the positive side here? Separate from moving offices and opening new facilities, we do actually, as a Commission, attend many, many events and activities in different areas. Indeed, last summer we were at the Swansea air shows. During the past few months, we've attended a range of events in places like Swansea University, Swansea multicultural hub, Port Talbot YMCA, University of Wales Trinity Saint David, and many more. So, we do get out and about, regardless of physically relocating or opening new offices. But thank you for the question.

Francesca O'Brien (Reform UK, Gŵyr Abertawe)

I don't know how I can beat that with my fellow Member's enthusiasm, but thank you for the answer so far. The backdrop to this question is significant because the previous Welsh Labour Government signed letters of intent with Swansea Council to occupy space in the five-storey public sector hub being built there on the old St David's shopping centre site in the city centre. Following the May election, a Welsh Government spokesperson confirmed that the decision had not been taken any further, which is a huge shame, given that there is now going to be occupancy there. Obviously, I would like to reiterate that we would love to see a presence there. However, there is an important factor to consider here when we are spending taxpayers' money, because given, critically, that Welsh Government staff are normally based, as highlighted previously, in Penllergaer, their existing daily attendance there was about 10 per cent, which is quite poor. So, going forward, would the Commission do a cost-feasibility analysis of having an office in Swansea? And, yes, perhaps in the city centre because we need that footfall. I would like to say Mumbles, because I know your good self came to Mumbles promenade last year, where you saw the new sea defence, which is a credit to the Welsh Government. It is a fantastic asset there, as I was previously a councillor. But would you commit to doing a cost-feasibility analysis of having an office in Swansea? Thank you.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

I am worried, Dirprwy Lywydd, that we're opening now a bidding war over the coming weeks of people who want offices opened in their area. But I do understand what the Member is saying. I would simply reflect on my earlier response, which is we always keep this live and we look for where the identified demand is. But the Member also said to me, 'We need to make sure that we're making efficient use of resources', and we agree as well. And of course, there is a difference between the Senedd offices and Welsh Government offices. So, I won't be drawn on that particular matter, if you don't mind.

Sarah Cooper-Lesadd (Reform UK, Pen-y-bont Bro Morgannwg)

4. What assessment has the Commission made of the adequacy of the security support available to Members in carrying out their duties? OQ64307

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

A comprehensive security framework is in place to support Members in carrying out their duties. This combines a strong protective security presence on the Senedd estate, along with Members having access to tailored advice, guidance, incident reporting and security measures in Members' homes and their constituency offices. Members also have access to a dedicated social media monitoring service, operated by Senedd security.

These arrangements are further strengthened by close partnership working with the police, including a substantial onsite presence and intelligence sharing through national programmes, alongside collaboration with other security partners across Wales and the UK, so we have a consistent and joined-up approach to Member security. There is also an annual planning process for Senedd security, to assess and plan for resource requirements, alongside a structured approach assessing the provision of police resources.

Finally, this is complemented, Dirprwy Lywydd, by continuous, dynamic risk assessments, undertaken by Senedd security, the police locally and nationally, and by UK-wide security service partners.

Sarah Cooper-Lesadd (Reform UK, Pen-y-bont Bro Morgannwg)

Some Members have faced serious incidents, including criminal damage to their homes. Concerns have been raised with me about how responsive the support around them has been, but this problem now reaches beyond Members. On National Fish and Chip Day, I had to take a video down, celebrating local traders in my constituency. Simply showing support for an independent business had exposed that business to targeted online abuse. In fact, I spoke to BBC Radio Wales about this. We have reached a point where I must think twice before publicly championing a cafe or a shop for fear of what it brings down on them.

So, I ask the Commissioner: what assurance can the Commission give that its security support for Members is genuinely adequate and properly co-ordinated with the police, and does it accept that the climate of abuse around political life has become so corrosive that it now not just silences Members, but the ordinary businesses and constituents caught in the crossfire?

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

The Member draws important attention to the fact that many people now in public life—both here in the Senedd and in the UK Parliament, but anybody in high-profile work—are now subject to this type of scrutiny, which can indeed lead to abuse, hostility, violence and worse, as we have seen. And it is unacceptable, and the message should go out from this Senedd Siambr that it is simply unacceptable. We can have debate and differences of opinion, but we can do it in a respectful way that does not lead to this open hostility and violence that we are seeing.

You're absolutely true in saying that, in our monitoring of incidents, we see common themes. That can include racial abuse and misogyny, discriminatory cultural assumptions, targeted harassment, strongly expressed political views and grievances, some of which include inappropriate language, which then escalate into abuse and hostile or intimidating commentary, or worse, as the Member has said, and we should all condemn that.

So, certainly, in terms of our approach, the security and the policing presence that we have, and the security monitoring, is very carefully calibrated, considering the risk and ensuring visibility and reassurance without being unduly intrusive, and there is a question of engaging with the Members individually. If any Member here—any Member—has any cause for concern, they should raise it directly with our security and policing presence, so that we can respond to their concerns. We want all Members to be safe in doing their job and able to engage with their community.

Nick Carter (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

As a new Member, the most sobering meeting I had in my first week was with the Senedd's security team—perhaps like many others here—and to hear their advice on dealing with potential threats in the future and the possible impact on our families, who, after all, didn't choose to be elected. Language is important and words have consequences. Things said in here do have the potential to have a wider impact outside. Given the increase in contributions in the Siambr over recent weeks that some might find inflammatory, can the Commission confirm whether these have been associated with heightened safety concerns for Members or a need to improve security in this seventh Senedd?

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

We take on board the point that the Member makes, which is that the discourse we have here in the Chamber and outside can either moderate and temper wider behaviour and wider societal norms, or it can escalate and inflame issues. I was taken recently, when I attended a really well-organised event in public that follows on from the Jo Cox Foundation—a More in Common event; many people will have attended them—bringing people together in neighbourhoods, in celebration, in joy and in happiness. People of different views, people of different backgrounds, different nations, different creeds and colours and so on, but bringing everybody together around that idea that we have more in common. And if we can collectively appeal to that approach, then I think we can do a good job here in the Senedd Chamber—in the Siambr—but also outside as well. Political differences are one thing, but we can do that in a way that is respectful of those political differences and sends a message to wider society that we can have political differences, but respect each other as well.

Catherine Cullen (Reform UK, Blaenau Gwent Caerffili Rhymni)

5. Will the Commission review its policy on access to GB News across the Senedd estate? OQ64298

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

A wide range of television channels and radio stations, including GB News, can be accessed using the Senedd IT network on laptops and other Senedd Commission-issued devices. The primary purpose of the internal tv system on the Senedd estate is to provide broadcast feeds of the Siambr and committee rooms, so that staff can follow business proceedings. In addition, and under our existing policy, only those channels that have public service obligations as set out in the Communications Act 2003 can be accessed, with the one addition of Sky News to ensure plurality of news programmes. The policy was agreed by the previous Commissioners. All our policies are subject to occasional review, and we could consider whether to do so at the appropriate time.

Catherine Cullen (Reform UK, Blaenau Gwent Caerffili Rhymni)

I need to declare an interest; I'm a member of the Free Speech Union. As Members of the Senedd, there's an impetus to stay informed as events unfold. The decision to evict GB News, a major Ofcom-regulated British broadcaster, from our internal television system sets a dangerous precedent. It's simply not good enough to say that we can access it using our own personal devices. The Commission, in my opinion, should allow free and equal access to all major broadcasters across the Senedd estate. Freedom of the press and speech is not about agreeing with every opinion that is aired, but is about defending the principle that people should be free to access competing perspectives. There is also talk of media regulation devolved to Wales, yet if a regulated broadcaster can be shut out of the Senedd because of political preference, why should anyone trust a regulator to act impartially? So, could you please consider a fair and reflective approach to all news channels, for the sake of fairness, free speech and the free expression of the media?

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Thank you for the supplementary. Those competing perspectives can be accessed, and I repeat, by all Members on the devices that are provided to them, whether it's on their laptops or other Senedd devices, and they can access them here within their workspace as well. I came from a different political institution, where green screens were in common use. The primary purpose was to inform Members who was speaking in the chamber and in committees. You didn't walk around watching tv screens, you watched to see who was on, and if they were good, you'd run and see them.

However, as I pointed out, this can be reviewed from time to time, if there's an appropriate time to review. In fact, the new commissioners have recently been appointed, as Members will know. We held our first meeting only last week. Should it be the will of the Commissioners to bring this for discussion, then, of course, we can look at it. But I come back to that primary point: the purpose of monitors around the building is not to watch news or daytime tv or whatever. They're to follow the business of the Chamber and committees.

Jane Dodds (Liberal Democrat, Brycheiniog Tawe Nedd)

Let's be clear why GB News was banned from the Senedd estate in 2023—[Interruption.] If you'd like to respectfully listen. Thank you. It was following comments made by presenter Laurence Fox asking what, and I quote, 'self-respecting man' would 'climb into bed' with journalist Ava Evans. And he then went on to say, quote,

'Who’d want to shag that?'

That went unchallenged. The situation was further worsened when Conservative Member Andrew R.T. Davies commented live on GB News that former Llywydd, Elin Jones, was too busy doing her hair to appear on the show.

The Llywydd made the decision; it was not a political party. I find it perplexing that Members might wish to lift a ban within the Senedd, given that the ban was not about its political stance, but about misogyny and sexism. This is not an isolated issue. As we know, Ofcom have repeatedly found GB News to be in breach of their standards. So, Llywydd, I support the Commission's position, and I would want to come back on it if it was going to be reviewed the other way. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Thank you for that supplementary. I have little to add to that. The history of this is indeed that GB News was originally removed from the Senedd Commission's internal tv network, following a broadcast that was deemed by Ofcom to break broadcasting rules, to protect viewers from offensive content. At that time, the decision was made by the Llywydd to remove the channel from internal networks in response to a broadcast that was deemed to be deliberately offensive to women in public life in particular, and to dignified public debate more generally. So, bearing in mind the conversation we had in response to a previous question, we just need to think about this very carefully going forward.

Jason O'Connell (Reform UK, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

6. What is the Commission doing to reduce its operating costs to provide better value for taxpayers? OQ64262

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

The Commission is tightly managing costs while protecting the services the Senedd needs. Through our medium-term resourcing framework, we challenge spending, cap staffing, control growth, and target resources where they matter most. Services are required to report on efficiencies each financial year and we are using better procurement, digital tools, automation and collaboration to deliver better value and reduce unnecessary costs.

Jason O'Connell (Reform UK, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

Thank you for the answer. The Commission is not known for its fiscal efficiency, but it does rent Tŷ Hywel at over £2 million per year. The lease on the building is due to expire, with planned renovations costing the Commission several million pounds to complete. This comes at great cost to the taxpayer, who we all answer to. What is the Senedd Commission doing to keep these costs down, including negotiating the rent? How are you making savings in other areas to mitigate those costs? Diolch.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Thank you. You are right that the Commission doesn't have an explicit efficiency target. However, the Commission does set its budget each year in accordance with the needs of the Senedd in full transparency and with an assessment of the resources needed to support it. We're always looking for efficiencies and ways in which we can support Members as effectively as we do now by either doing more for less or doing more with the resources that we have. And this includes, by the way, the appropriate use of AI and process redesign.

In terms of where we go next, you're absolutely right; the Commissioners and I are fully focused on making sure that, in the plans for the estate that we have and going forward, costs engaged with renovation, leasing buildings et cetera are fully factored into decisions that can be brought for consideration here within the Senedd, and in full transparency. We all have an interest in making the most effective use of the money available to us, and you can rest assured that that's what we're seeking to do.

Iain McIntosh (Reform UK, Brycheiniog Tawe Nedd)

7. What action does the Commission take to ensure that rules relating to the placement of political signs in public-facing Senedd estate windows are enforced consistently, and to prevent breaches of the Rules and Guidance on the Use of Senedd Resources by Members? OQ64275

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

The Senedd Commission expects all Members to comply with the rules and guidance on the use of Senedd resources at all times, as required by the code of conduct. Responsibility for ensuring compliance, including the use of public-facing spaces such as office windows, rests with those individual Members and their staff.

Iain McIntosh (Reform UK, Brycheiniog Tawe Nedd)

Thank you very much for the answer. Further to that, political campaign signage has recently been displayed in the windows of Plaid Cymru Members' offices on the Senedd estate, visible to members of the public outside this building. Given that the Senedd is a publicly funded building, paid for by taxpayers of all political views, and that public buildings such as schools, hospitals and places of worship are not to be used to display party political campaign materials, does the Commission believe that this is consistent with the rules and guidance on the use of Senedd resources by Members? If the rules have been breached, what action will the Commission take? Does the Commission expect that, following the removal of the political signs, the Plaid Cymru Members concerned should acknowledge that publicly funded facilities should not be used for party political campaigning and issue a public apology? Diolch.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

At this point—and thank you for raising this very important issue, which applies to all Members within this Chamber—there is very clear established guidance in place on the appropriate use of Senedd resources, which I referred to earlier. The rules and guidance on the use of these resources, including offices and so on, and the code of conduct, have been provided to every single Member at the start of this seventh Senedd. Those Members are also supported through advice and clarification where needed. If any Members are in doubt that they might be straying beyond, they can come and seek some advice and clarification. It's also included, of course, in training sessions and one-to-one discussions.

In terms of rule 1 in the rules and guidance on the use of Senedd resources, in terms of personal accountability, Members are personally accountable for the use of Commission resources made available to them, and must not use them for party political activity, or for any purpose other than the discharge of their duties as a Member. The point on public-facing displays has been well made; it's a timely reminder for everybody here in the building.

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

The final question is from Janet Finch-Saunders.

Janet Finch-Saunders (Conservative, Bangor Conwy Môn)

8. How many Commission staff work five days a week on the Senedd estate? OQ64271

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

The Senedd Commission actively manages and reviews the performance of its staff against strategic goals, service requirements and individual objectives, at all times. We also monitor onsite attendance, as well as annual leave, flexi leave and sickness absence levels. The Commission does not, however, collate information on daily rates of working from home by its staff. Onsite attendance across the organisation is determined by business need, operational priorities and role requirements.

However, there are a number of roles within the Commission, such as security, porters and front of house staff, whose work cannot be conducted anywhere but on the Senedd estate. Based on the most recent workforce analysis, these roles equate to 12 per cent of Commission staff. All other roles have the ability to work from home where this supports service delivery and management agreement.

Janet Finch-Saunders (Conservative, Bangor Conwy Môn)

Diolch. Of course, 65 per cent of the Commission's operational revenue expenditure relates to staffing costs, with the Senedd Commission employing around 500 members of staff before the Senedd expansion. And I have to say, I was a commissioner in the last term, but prior to that, I have seen differences since we have actually gone—where a number of staff are working from home. I find that staff are harder to contact and things like that.

However, we've now got 96 Members, and £2.7 million is paid by the Senedd Commission on the rent of Tŷ Hywel alone. Apart from Tuesdays and Wednesdays, it's fair to say that this building sometimes seems relatively empty. Often, only a handful of cars are in the car park, especially on a Friday. It has been mentioned about the very costly renovations of Tŷ Hywel—

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Can you come to your question, please?

Janet Finch-Saunders (Conservative, Bangor Conwy Môn)

I am. What steps are you taking as a Commission to encourage more members of staff to return to working on the Senedd estate, especially given that several million pounds is now going to be spent on Tŷ Hywel? Frankly, we need to see our staff coming back to work.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

One thing to say, as Members will shortly be very aware, is that this place will not only be operating on Tuesday and Wednesday. It has already started work on Monday and Thursday with the committees. And some poor Members are on two committees, so they will be here four days a week. The staff required to service those committees and the work they're doing will be available. If Members feel that the operational effect is affecting them, let us know. But I have to say that the feedback we have consistently is that our ways of working, where staff can work, for example, with hybrid working, or here onsite, but making themselves available to the outcomes that Members need, are very effective indeed.

In terms of the sorts of roles we have, we have rota-based roles, we have hybrid arrangements, we have team-specific requirements, including those who service committees. A single measure such as saying to staff, 'You will be monitored on five days a week onsite' may not provide any meaningful insight into how effective those members of staff are. That said, we keep our data and reporting regularly under review to ensure we have the right information to support both transparency and effective management across the estate.

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Thank you, Llywydd.

4. Topical Questions

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Item 4 is the topical questions. Sarah Rees.

Sarah Rees (Plaid Cymru, Pen-y-bont Bro Morgannwg)

Firstly, I'd like to declare an interest as a previous spokesperson for Disasters Emergency Committee Cymru.

Sarah Rees (Plaid Cymru, Pen-y-bont Bro Morgannwg)

1. What support will the Welsh Government provide to the Disasters Emergency Committee’s appeal following the recent earthquakes in Venezuela on 24 June? TQ1477

Sioned Williams (Plaid Cymru, Brycheiniog Tawe Nedd)

Diolch. I attended the launch of the Disasters Emergency Committee's appeal for Venezuela earlier today. People across Wales donate generously to these appeals, recognising the urgency for those in need. I confirm that the Welsh Government will be providing £50,000 to support the humanitarian aid effort.

Sarah Rees (Plaid Cymru, Pen-y-bont Bro Morgannwg)

I welcome the Deputy First Minister's response to the tragic events. This morning, I spoke with Miguel Delgado, who went two days without hearing from his mother in La Guaira before finally learning she was alive but had lost her home, and that his cousin and her three-year-old child had tragically died. Our condolences go out to all families who have lost loved ones. Miguel has been embraced by his local community, and he spoke about the similarities between La Guaira and Wales, places where everyone knows each other, they support each other and they rally together in crisis.

The Disasters Emergency Committee has now launched its appeal following the earthquakes, which have killed more than 1,700 people, and left tens of thousands more missing. We know from previous appeals, for Ukraine and Turkey, for example, how generous people in Wales are when they see others in crisis. Noting that the funds used directly on the ground in Venezuela provide the best value and fastest relief, what advice can the Deputy First Minister offer on the forms of support that will most effectively reach those vulnerable communities in need?

Sioned Williams (Plaid Cymru, Brycheiniog Tawe Nedd)

Thank you for that supplementary question.

Sioned Williams (Plaid Cymru, Brycheiniog Tawe Nedd)

I also heard Miguel this morning on Radio Wales. It was truly heartbreaking, wasn't it, to hear him talk about his family? He couldn't actually carry on, could he? The interview was so effective, really, at signalling to us all how quickly life can change, in the blink of an eye, and the devastation that's been rained on the people of Venezuela: those two earthquakes, back to back, of magnitude 7.2 and 7.5, which struck so close to the capital city, where there is a large population; the second earthquake was the strongest to hit the country in more than a century. Venezuelan authorities have declared a state of emergency, with more than 2 million people estimated to have been impacted by the disaster. So, this is a major humanitarian crisis.

The Welsh Government funds the Disasters Emergency Committee, DEC Cymru, to support the co-ordination of fundraising efforts in Wales when they react to disasters like this. It brings together leading organisations in the UK to raise funds for overseas emergencies, it co-ordinates an effective humanitarian response, getting that aid quickly to people who need it in the most cost-effective manner. So, making a donation to the DEC ensures that funding reaches those most in need in the most effective way possible. So, I would encourage everyone who can donate to do so through the DEC website.

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Thank you very much, Deputy First Minister.

Just going back to the previous item, Niamh wanted to come in with a brief statement. Sorry I missed you.

Niamh Salkeld (Plaid Cymru, Blaenau Gwent Caerffili Rhymni)

That's okay.

Niamh Salkeld (Plaid Cymru, Blaenau Gwent Caerffili Rhymni)

Thank you. I should just have declared a point of interest on the supplementary question to the Senedd Commission on staff working conditions during periods of extreme heat as I'm a member of PCS, and would like that to be on the record. Diolch.

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Thank you.

5. 90-second Statements

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Item 5, 90-second statements. Gwyn Williams.

Gwyn Williams (Plaid Cymru, Gŵyr Abertawe)

Diolch yn fawr, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Safa, Peredur and I were lucky to attend the fiftieth anniversary of the organisations that make up Adferiad last week, at Norton House in Swansea. Peredur, of course, chaired the cross-party group on substance abuse, so is the most experienced person in this Chamber with this subject.

This is one of Wales's largest and most important mental health and substance abuse organisations, and was formed by a merger of Cyngor Alcohol Information Service, Hafal and the Welsh Centre for Addiction and Dependency. It's important as well to recognise the coming together of mental health issues and substance abuse, as the crossover, we found out, was quite substantial and stark. We listened to many harrowing stories from people who'd been helped by this all-important charity, which employs 750 expert staff and volunteers across Wales—a national voice grounded in local communities.

To our shame as a society, our veterans disproportionately suffer from both substance abuse and mental health disorders, and a combination of both. They are helped through Adferiad via the Change Step programme. We also heard from Elin Jones, life president, and we were very much inspired by their work. So, I would like to say, on the record, happy fiftieth birthday—pen-blwydd hapus—Adferiad, and may the next 50 years be equally good. Thank you.

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Thank you. Mike Hedges.

Mike Hedges (Labour, Gŵyr Abertawe)

Diolch. Saturday, 4 July is national appreciation day for key workers in the retail industry. We all interact with retail workers, be it in our local newsagents, supermarkets, clothes shops or do-it-yourself stores. Retail trade union USDAW—Union of Shop, Distributive and Allied Workers—is holding its National Retail Workers' Day, which engages with the public to highlight the value of retail workers in our shops and communities this Saturday.

There are 2.8 million jobs in retail, accounting for almost 10 per cent of all jobs in the British economy. It is collectively the biggest private sector employer in the country. I, alongside USDAW, am asking the public to show their support for shop workers and share the message that retail workers are at the heart of our communities. The staff are at the core of the success of the retail industry, which is crucial to the UK economy and is a vital part of our high streets and communities. National Retail Workers' Day provides a great opportunity to thank all retail workers for the hard work they do day in, day out.

The trade union for retail workers, USDAW, represents hundreds of thousands of workers across the UK retail sector. USDAW continues to make a difference for retail workers by negotiating higher pay rates, more secure employment contracts, calling for action to help revitalise our high streets, delivering for members in the workplace, including negotiating supportive policies on the menopause, greater support on mental health issues and caring for children and family, and working with employers, Government and police to tackle abuse, threats and violence towards retail workers and delivering vital new legal protections. I welcome the Crime and Policing Act 2026 to tackle the epidemic of retail crime and assaults on shop workers that occur far too often. We all need to respect and appreciate retail workers.

Elfed Williams (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

Last week, the glittering career of one of the giants of the world of rugby came to an end. Since winning his first cap for his country at 18, this giant from Anglesey, George North, went on to wear the red shirt of Wales 121 times, crossing the white line on 47 occasions. We all thank George very much, not only for his contribution on the field, but also for the inspiration that he has given to the next generation of athletes across Wales.

And on that note, I want to wish well every one of the 115 Welsh athletes competing in the Commonwealth Games this month in Glasgow, particularly those from Bangor Conwy Môn. Specifically, I'd like to wish Cari Hughes from Anglesey well, the first athlete to compete in the Commonwealth Games who has already competed for Anglesey in the Island Games. This is a huge achievement and clearly highlights the key role the Island Games have played in providing a platform for local athletes and to nurture talent and experience among those athletes.

Finally, from Glasgow to Le Mans in France, I would also like to wish Martha Glwys Jones from Llanrwst well. She is one of four who have been selected to represent the British equestrian team at the European championship. Many congratulations to Martha—I wish her well, and, of course, Cognac her horse.

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Thank you.

6. Member Debate under Standing Order 11.21(iv): Trauma and Adverse Childhood Experience (ACE)

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Member debate under Standing Order 11.21(iv), trauma and adverse childhood experience. Before we begin this item, the Member has informed me in advance that the debate will raise sensitive topics that some Members and people watching may find difficult. So, please do be aware of that. I call on Beca Brown to move the motion.

Beca Brown (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Diolch yn fawr iawn. So, we often hear the phrase, 'It takes a village to raise a child.' We hear it and we nod earnestly. We say it, and, of course, we mean it, but do we really consider what that phrase means or what it should mean at least? Being a village for children and for all children should mean committing to the promotion of their well-being, advocating for their needs and protecting them from harm at all times. This is everyone's job. It's our job as people out there in the world. And as politicians, it's down to us to put in place measures that support and sustain that nurturing village we all want for our children.

Being a part of that village should mean being curious and self-aware. Are we doing everything we can to make children's lives better, safer, healthier, happier? And when things do go wrong for a child or for a young person, how do we treat them? How do we help them heal? How do we speak to them? What kind of words do we use? And how do we speak about them and what narratives do we create around young people whose trauma makes them complicated, unpredictable and sometimes pretty hard work? Do we see them? And more importantly, do they feel seen by us?

My debate today is about adverse childhood experiences and about trauma, because far too many people live with really complex trauma that is often the result of their adverse childhood experiences or ACEs. Approximately half of adults in Wales have experienced at least one adverse childhood experience, and it's associated with an increased risk of poorer physical and mental health, an increased risk of substance misuse, and the increased likelihood of suffering from chronic conditions later in life.

Beca Brown (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Adverse childhood experiences are usually grouped into three categories: abuse—emotional, physical, sexual; neglect—emotional and physical; household challenges, which include the following—a parent or caregiver with a mental illness, a parent or caregiver with a substance use problem, parental separation or divorce, witnessing domestic violence, a household member becoming incarcerated. These 10 experiences are the ones most commonly used in research and public health. But many researchers now recognise that they do not capture all significant adversities and that other experiences may have lasting effects. These include bullying, racism or hate crime, community violence, poverty and food insecurity, being in care or experiencing multiple placements, the death of a parent or sibling, serious illness in the child or a close family member, refugee or asylum experiences, parental conflict, homelessness or housing instability.