Senedd Cymru (Welsh Parliament), 16 June 2026

259 contributions from 57 members. The official report.

1. Questions to the First Minister

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Good afternoon and welcome to you all. We'll move now to questions to the First Minister. The first question is from Lynne Neagle.

Lynne Neagle (Labour, Sir Fynwy Torfaen)

1. What are the First Minister's priorities for education in Sir Fynwy Torfaen? OQ64188

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

Education is at the very heart of our ambition for Wales. We see education as the key to unlocking new and better opportunities, and building the more confident, innovative and productive nation we know Wales can be. The Cabinet Minister for Education and the Welsh Language will make a statement this afternoon outlining our priorities for education in more detail.

Lynne Neagle (Labour, Sir Fynwy Torfaen)

First Minister, today you announced £55 million of new money for childcare places. This is despite the fact that, last week, you told us you weren't able to provide any costings and that we needed to wait for the work of an expert group. Well, the only new money I'm aware of is the £327 million allocated in the spring statement, the vast majority of which was consequentials for special educational needs and disabilities. Now, I have to take issue with the First Minister's contention that that money is less necessary in Wales because we didn't have a statutory override. Any local authority in Wales, including both the authorities in my constituency, or any school, including the nearly third of schools that are in budget deficit, will tell you that the additional learning needs pressures are huge. First Minister, are you finally going to tell us how much additional money is going to be made available to meet the ALN pressures, or is the cost of your childcare pledge to be met at the cost of children with additional learning needs?

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

This Government fully understands the pressures on schools, on local authorities and, more importantly, on families, due to ALN. The situation is this: a one-off, quick-fix payment for what's left of this financial year is not what will give us the long-term sustainability needed for ALN. What we need is to put in place the policy programme that will provide that sustainability, and it is precisely that—the long-term view of supporting both families and local authorities—that will guide this Government. We look forward to working with those families and local authorities in providing that long-term, rather than quick-fix, solution.

Donna Cushing (Plaid Cymru, Sir Fynwy Torfaen)

We know that smartphones are impacting children's well-being and ability to concentrate in classrooms. As you have stated, it is crucial that we improve attainment in our schools, and I believe that restricting the use of smartphones in schools for those under 16 is an important piece of the puzzle. Could the First Minister outline the Government's ambitions to promote students' safety, learning and well-being through restricting the use of smartphones in schools for under-16s?

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

I agree with the Member that the evidence is clear now about the impact that smartphones, the use of mobile phones within school hours, can have on both the well-being and the education of children. This is a Government that is determined to act, and the education Minister will provide detail of the proposals on how we act in a national, clear way this afternoon.

Peter Fox (Conservative, Sir Fynwy Torfaen)

First Minister, underperformance and systemic inconsistency in secondary schools remain a challenge for councils and schools, with many schools in my constituency and, no doubt, across Wales, carrying significant budget deficits. First Minister, how will your Government drive the continuous improvement we need to see, when so many schools have a financial millstone around their necks holding them back?

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

I think the very real challenges faced by local authorities was the reason we decided to prioritise local authority funding alongside health funding in preparing for the budget for 2026-27 and working with the previous Government. So, you know, we have done what we could, at that stage, to try to protect budgets. But this is also about putting the measures in place that assist teachers, assist schools to help raise those standards. The numeracy and literacy framework that we will be putting in place, I am confident, will lead to a trajectory towards higher standards within our schools.

Matthew Jones (Plaid Cymru, Sir Fynwy Torfaen)

I was very pleased to welcome you and the Minister for education and the Welsh language to Ysgol Gymraeg Gwynllyw last week, which was my former school and that of Niamh Salkeld and Steffan Lewis, of course. The catchment for ysgol Gwynllyw is very broad, but there is great inconsistency for post-16 students in terms of getting to that school. I understand that pupils from Blaenau Gwent and Torfaen qualify for free school transport, but pupils from Monmouthshire have to pay around £600 per annum just to get to school. Does the First Minister agree with me that charging £600 a year to travel to Welsh-medium education is unfair, and will he also commit to putting pressure on Monmouthshire County Council to review these arrangements in order to ensure that every young person has fair and free access to Welsh-medium education?

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

It was a pleasure to be able to visit Gwynllyw school last week, and I'd like to thank the staff, and particularly the pupils from primary age to secondary age, for the welcome that we had. It's a school that evidently aims to excel in everything that it does.

And, certainly, we need to recognise always how additional costs in any way can be a barrier to educational choices. And it's important to recognise that barriers can be put in place because of costs, that affect access to Welsh-medium education. That's something that the Welsh Government is taking seriously, and the Minister for education and the Welsh language will be looking at all options to support schools and local authorities to ensure that those barriers are eliminated one by one.

Louise Emery (Reform UK, Clwyd)

2. Will the First Minister make a statement on the provision of GP services in Clwyd? OQ64187

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

GPs are the foundation of NHS care in Wales. Every month, general practices deliver around 1.5 million patient contacts, including over 150,000 across Clwyd. When access to primary care comes under pressure, the whole system feels it. That's why we have embarked on our manifesto commitments to strengthen GP services, improve out-of-hours access, expand digital and telehealth support, and deliver more care closer to home.

Louise Emery (Reform UK, Clwyd)

First Minister, Healthy Prestatyn Iach was created in 2016 as a flagship response to the collapse of GP services in north Denbighshire—three practices terminating their contracts in a single year because they could not recruit enough doctors. A decade on, patients still report that accessing primary care there is difficult and stressful, and now the practice is consulting on reducing its boundary, which would see patients, including some of the most vulnerable in the community, with high levels of deprivation, transferred to neighbouring practices whose own capacity to absorb them is unclear. And the consultation window for patients is just three weeks. First Minister, what discussions have you had to ensure that no boundary changes will be approved unless there is clear evidence that receiving practices have sufficient capacity to maintain standards of access and care, and that the consultation is meaningful and not just a rubber-stamping exercise? Diolch.

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

The boundary changes issue, in and of itself, is something that will be looked at by the Cabinet Minister for Health and Care. That is a very specific issue. There are areas that the Member referred to that I very much agree with, on the lack of a GP workforce in some areas being a particular issue, and, in particular, where you have areas of deprivation—that being a barrier, in itself, to healthcare.

Our manifesto and first 100 days commitments make clear that strengthening GP services, as I say, are central to improving access, wherever that may be, regardless of what boundary changes might have been put in place. And 100 additional GPs, which is a significant increase across Wales, I believe, can make a real difference to access to care in primary care. And I remind Members that, this week, this Government is fulfilling a pledge to convene a primary care summit, which will be an opportunity to look at these very issues.

Becca Martin (Plaid Cymru, Clwyd)

First Minister, access to GP services has been a long-standing concern for many constituents across Clwyd, particularly in the more socioeconomically deprived coastal communities, where recruitment and retention challenges can be acute. As you say, Plaid Cymru has committed to training 100 new GPs as part of its plans to strengthen primary care services. Can the First Minister outline how this commitment will be delivered across Wales and how communities in Clwyd will benefit from the increased GP workforce that Plaid Cymru is proposing?

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

As I say, the summit that will be convened this week will bring together Government, NHS leaders, front-line partners, to focus exactly on those issues of how we improve access, strengthen sustainability and shift care to closer to home. And the issue of recruiting an additional 100-salaried GPs to strengthen front-line capacity, improve out of-hours care in particular, is going to be at the core of dealing with the issues that constituents in Clwyd face. We recognise that those pressures, as I said earlier, are often felt most sharply in some communities, which is why we'll work with practices at the deep end, if you like, to explore modernised models of care, reduce workload pressures, and support more collaborative and federated ways of working.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

I now call on the party leaders to question the First Minister. First, the leader of Reform UK, Dan Thomas.

Dan Thomas (Reform UK, Casnewydd Islwyn)

Diolch, Lywydd. It is a fact that a lack of house building and uncontrolled immigration has led to a housing shortage across the UK. In Wales, house prices and rents have skyrocketed, making housing unaffordable. Now, Plaid Cymru have promised to deliver 20,000 new homes by 2030. Reform welcomes the delivery of new homes, but, to deliver at that scale, we're going to need radical reform of the planning system, we're going to need ministerial intervention when councils do not deliver the number of homes that their communities need, and we need Government and local government to work in partnership with house builders to leverage the billions of pounds that are needed to deliver 20,000 new homes. So, First Minister, how will you speed up planning and how will you leverage the billions of pounds needed to deliver your promise?

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

Firstly, the housing shortages that we face in Wales are very, very real. Secondly, those housing shortages are not driven by immigration. That is an attempt—[Interruption.]—that is an attempt to create division when we should be looking at practical solutions to the practical problem that we face of shortage of housing.

Yes, we have set a high level of ambition for the number of houses we want to deliver. Social housing is a key part of that. And, yes, we need to work with house builders. We also need to work with social housing providers. Plus, we will work through the body established by this Government, Unnos, which will look for innovative ways of realising this promise. Let's focus on the practical issues that we face day in, day out. And yes, leveraging money in, in innovative ways, is a part of the solutions that we seek to find. But blaming one part of society for the issue doesn't help us reach the solution.

Dan Thomas (Reform UK, Casnewydd Islwyn)

Nobody's blaming immigrants. We're blaming uncontrolled—[Interruption.]—we're blaming uncontrolled and unplanned immigration, which has a ripple effect across the UK. That ripple effect has hit house prices and rents, which is why we have a shortage in Wales. We don't need another quango; we need ministerial leadership. The housing sector are telling me that housing associations and house builders, they want to speak to decision makers, not middlemen.

Now, houses in multiple occupation are also a big problem in Wales, and it is caused in part by uncontrolled immigration. Across towns and villages across Wales, we have seen HMOs changing the character of streets that have been residential in nature for decades, if not centuries. Large companies are buying up family homes and turning them into HMOs, and people are not happy with this. So, what will the Government do to give communities and councils a greater say on HMOs and that they can say 'no' to HMOs?

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

It's again seeking to blame, isn't it? HMOs was an issue in a part of Cardiff that I used to live in, years ago. That was because of student HMOs. So, the solution there is to find ways of making sure that we can house students in ways that don't impact on local populations. There are parts of my own constituency where HMOs have been because of workforces in particular sectors. The leader of the opposition says he's not blaming immigrants whilst then progressing to blame immigrants for the situation. He will have to forgive me for always focusing on the practical answers that are needed to the very real problems that we face, and that is a lack of social housing, which is why this Government is getting on with building more social housing.

Dan Thomas (Reform UK, Casnewydd Islwyn)

I was pleased to learn that a supplementary budget will be coming forward next week. I think the First Minister and I can agree that Labour have left a financial mess. But the way that Government Ministers have been talking about the scale of that mess, it seems to me that you are warming us up for some unpleasant announcements next week. I'd like the First Minister to rule out any tax rises and any service cuts today. This is meant to be, hopefully, a major fiscal event—the fiscal event that Wales needs to get back up off its feet and on the way to recovery. Or will it be, First Minister, a continuation of Labour's spending plans, with some tinkering around the edges?

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

I think I've made it clear on many occasions that this Government does not have any plans and will not raise taxes. Our job here is to get on with the work of delivering the programme for government that we put to the people of Wales and got a mandate to deliver in the recent election. I notice the comments from the previous First Minister that access talks would have led to open books. I also realise that the leader of the opposition decided not to take up the option of entering into access talks. That's how serious they were about getting into Government. To suggest that Plaid Cymru had access to the Government books, as the former finance Minister put it, is demonstrably not true. That's not how access talks work. What I can confirm as true is that, in health, the previous Government left in-year pressures to the tune of hundreds of millions of pounds. On top of that, they made multimillion pound unfunded commitments on childcare, for example, leaving a hugely challenging legacy behind. But I won't dwell on that fact. I won't use that as an excuse. It's for Labour to answer how this situation came to pass. It's for this Government to roll up our sleeves and be determined to deliver on those pledges that we put in front of the people of Wales. That is exactly what we are doing. That is why, today, £55 million was announced by the Deputy First Minister to roll out childcare, which the people of Wales showed they so desperately want.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Leader of Welsh Labour, Ken Skates.

Ken Skates (Labour, Fflint Wrecsam)

Diolch. First Minister, over the weekend, you and your finance Minister claimed that finances were more difficult than you had expected, even though, as you have confirmed, you were part of the process of setting the budget that you now have. You'll also be aware that you received £120 million in extra capital funding on top of the £327 million for ALN, which you are refusing to pass on to schools. Instead, you're briefing that there is some sort of non-existent black hole. Now, before the election, the Institute for Fiscal Studies reported that your uncosted promises would require tax increases or cuts to unprotected services. Were they right?

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

This is a previous Government that promised a multibillion pound hospital building funded, but couldn't even get their sums right on how much money had been allocated for childcare—were they able to win the election, which, of course, they weren't. Yes, we were part of a process around agreeing those funds for the NHS and local government, as I explained earlier. I'm not sure the former Minister was a part of that process. But, as I say, access talks aren't an open-book exercise of the kind that the former Minister implies. The in-year pressures left as a result of the actions of the previous Labour administrations are ones that we will deal with now. What we will do is roll up our sleeves and make sure that we find innovative ways, both on revenue and capital fronts, to deliver what the people of Wales said they wanted us to.

Ken Skates (Labour, Fflint Wrecsam)

I think it was Ronald Reagan who said, 'If you've got to explain it, you've lost it.' Effectively, any difficult decisions that you now face are owed to your party's inability or refusal to cost the promises that you made. You wouldn't tell us before the election what you'll cut. Will you tell us now? Will it be to tackling poverty? Will it be to education, to housing, or to health?

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

What's become very, very clear, Llywydd, is the mismanagement of funds under the previous Government. I'm not going to use that as an excuse for the work that we have to get on with now. We have put a programme in place. It is around improving education standards. My Minister is getting on with the work of delivering a foundation numeracy and literacy project. It is about improving access to childcare. The £55 million announced today is about starting that work of delivering childcare. It's about creating better jobs in all parts of Wales. Work is already beginning on setting in place the plans for the delivery of a new development agency for Wales. All these actions are ones that we said we would be putting in place, and we are already doing so. All the points in our 100-day plan have been actioned already. We did more in 27 days as a Government than the previous Labour administration did in 27 years.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Leader of the Welsh Conservatives, Darren Millar.

Darren Millar (Conservative, Clwyd)

First Minister, in just 11 days' time, communities across Wales and the whole of the United Kingdom will be marking Armed Forces Day. It's an opportunity, of course, to pay tribute to the courage and professionalism of His Majesty's armed forces, and to recognise the thousands of people who work in the defence industry across Wales, who help to keep our country safe. Those workers design, build and maintain the equipment for our armed forces and our allies around the world. Those companies also provide highly skilled jobs, apprenticeships and investment in communities across the country. So, can I ask you, First Minister: at a time when war has returned to Europe and when the international security situation is becoming increasingly uncertain and fragile, do you agree with me that a strong defence industry here in Wales is essential to our economy? And will you join me in paying tribute to our armed forces and to the Welsh workers whose efforts help to provide them with the resources that they need?

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

One of my first visits as First Minister was to see Valley Veterans and to share with them stories of their time serving in the armed forces and to pledge to them our determination to deliver on the covenant that is so important to those who have served. Yes, I do believe that the defence sector in Wales plays a very important part within the economy as a whole. Yes, I absolutely understand that the changing face of international threats means that we need to make sure that we have the conventional forces in place that are able to stand up to that. At the same time, this is a Government that will make sure that the ethical engagement around defence is as strong as it can possibly be. I think those are the kinds of assurances that the people of Wales want.

Darren Millar (Conservative, Clwyd)

Well, can I welcome your comments in relation to the armed forces covenant? It's absolutely vital that Wales honours that covenant at every single level of government, and I want to pay tribute to those organisations that are working hard to do just that. But last week, of course, we saw two resignations from the UK Government. Two Ministers resigned because they did not believe that the UK Government was doing enough to invest in defence at a time of growing international instability. Their warnings came as countries across Europe are increasing their spending on defence, rebuilding their military capability and capacity and investing in their domestic defence industries. Now, Wales is already home to a host of world-class defence and aerospace companies: General Dynamics, Airbus, BAE Systems, Raytheon, Babcock, Sierra Nevada Corporation Mission Systems and others across the whole of this country, employing many thousands of individuals, and they're playing a vital role in our defence industry. But it's really important that, if the increase in defence spending comes from the UK Government, Wales gets its fair share and that we're able to grow our defence industry. What action have you taken to date, and what action do you intend to take to make sure that that's the case?

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

I think the Member is right that we would expect Wales to get a fair share. It is also equally true to say that if UK Government, as it's thought, is going to be making changes to defence spending and doing that off the back of public spending that's very important to us in terms of dealing with infrastructure issues here in Wales, that we are given advance warning of that, which is not what happened in this case. When I talk about wanting to have a reset of relations between Welsh Government and UK Government and having a respect agenda, I expect that respect agenda to work both ways, and therefore to have an early opportunity to engage on decisions that would impact us in Wales is something that I will always do, as the people of Wales expect me to, being a First Minister that has always pledged to stand up for the people of Wales and to be loyal always to the needs of the people of this nation.

Sarah Cooper-Lesadd (Reform UK, Pen-y-bont Bro Morgannwg)

3. How will the Welsh Government ensure the forthcoming review of Senedd electoral arrangements strengthens public confidence in Welsh democracy? OQ64136

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

It is for the Senedd to decide whether to establish the review, once the Llywydd tables the motion required by the legislation. Given the significant changes to the Senedd and our electoral system, a review of the new system can itself strengthen public confidence in our democracy. I hope the Constitution, Justice and External Affairs Committee can take forward that work, and my Government is committed to contributing to it.

Sarah Cooper-Lesadd (Reform UK, Pen-y-bont Bro Morgannwg)

First Minister, the Welsh election study found that fewer than one in eight people understood the new voting system at this year's election—a system only introduced months ago. I know fewer ballots were spoiled, and we all welcome that, but a simple ballot is not the same as a system being understandable. Being able to mark a paper easily tells us nothing about whether people grasp how their vote translates into who represents them. So, how can it be right to contemplate changing the system again? The single transferable vote is one of the options being considered. Before people have come to terms with it, does he not accept that changing the system again so soon would erode the very confidence in our democracy he wants to build?

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

I think the important thing here, and certainly what would drive me in thinking what's the best electoral system for us in Wales, is that, yes, it's a mix of what people can understand in a short period of time—being educated about how a new system works—but it is also surely about having a system that works democratically, that people feel ownership of, and that they ultimately see the way that they voted in an election translates itself to what happens in this Parliament.

I think it's important that we do learn lessons from what was a new election, and that is precisely what this review is about. We made sure, those of us who were in the last Senedd, that we had that mechanism within the legislation on expanding the Senedd and introducing a new electoral system to review it, to make sure that it is as good as it can be in terms of proportionality, understanding and so on. My Government remains committed to that review, which I think is important, but ultimately this is one for the Senedd as a whole.

Zaynub Akbar (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

I thank the Member for raising this important issue. If politics is to work effectively, it must truly reflect the people it serves, and that means everyone. I am proud that Plaid Cymru ensured that at least 50 per cent of our candidates were women, resulting in 26 of our 43 Members here today being women, alongside a gender-balanced Cabinet. This Chamber has also been strengthened cross-party by more younger Members, representatives with disabilities and those from global majority communities. However, it is disappointing that previous Senedd-wide proposals to improve representation were rejected, showing that there is still far more to do. Does the First Minister agree that public confidence in Welsh democracy depends on people seeing themselves reflected in it, and that greater diversity leads to better decisions for Wales?

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

Yes, I think ensuring that this Senedd is representative of the people we serve, rich in its diversity, should be something that's important to all of us. I certainly was pleased that, as a party, we were able to play our part in creating this representative and diverse Senedd, with women making up 46 per cent of this seventh Senedd, and we have diversity across other characteristics too. I absolutely agree that, by being representative of the people we serve, we can be more effective as a democratically elected institution. There's a lot of evidence to support that. There's more that we need to do, of course, but, as a Senedd, we can establish, every single one of us here, an inclusive culture, working practices and policies. But political parties in themselves are important gatekeepers, aren't they, in achieving that aim too.

Andrew RT Davies (Conservative, Pen-y-bont Bro Morgannwg)

First Minister, electoral reform is always important to make sure that the electorate engage fully with the opportunity to cast their opinion via the ballot box. Your manifesto touched on electoral reform in local government, which is an area that hasn't seen much electoral reform during this Senedd term. Is it your commitment that the elections that will be run next May will be run on the existing franchise, and there will be no change to the electoral way that people will vote, but the electoral aspiration for local government is more longer term and those are changes you will seek to make in the back end of this Senedd term?

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

I think this close to next year's local elections, I don't think it would be possible to bring in a new way of electing members, though that decision will ultimately be down to local authorities themselves. Work is still ongoing in relation to automatic registration, which is something that, as a principle, I adhere to. I want as many people as possible to be able to take part in the democratic process. We will judge whether timescales allow us to do that, but it's something in principle that I would want to do.

John Davies (Plaid Cymru, Gŵyr Abertawe)

4. What support is the Welsh Government providing to locally owned businesses in Gŵyr Abertawe? OQ64183

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

Locally owned businesses are important to communities in Gŵyr Abertawe. My Government will back them to innovate, scale and improve productivity. That means practical help through the business support on offer and stronger local supply chain support. We want Welsh businesses to grow without losing their local identity, so jobs, decisions and the wealth they create stay in their communities.

John Davies (Plaid Cymru, Gŵyr Abertawe)

Diolch, First Minister. The economy in Swansea is really struggling. I've recently spoken to two businesses in Gŵyr Abertawe. Both have exactly the same problem: that's an inability to access Government procurement. The first was a ground care company, which just lost a contract to clear coastal paths in Gower to a company from York, which I find an unbelievable decision. And there's a Mumbles-based cleaning company with over 300 employees; it's well established, but has never, ever obtained a single Government contract.

Welsh bodies spend over £8 billion a year on procurement. This is almost a third of the entire public expenditure. It is absolutely vital that Welsh businesses, local businesses, have access to this expenditure. It is the foundation of our economy, and access to this is equivalent to having sound foundations in a house. Every £1 that goes through and off the M4 is lost. Will the First Minister please outline the Government's plans to increase the levels for procurement to support local businesses that apply for Government contracts?

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

The frustration voiced by the Member is one that I have voiced many times as well when it comes to looking at procurement spend in action and the Welsh pound leaving Wales unnecessarily all too often. I'm very pleased to have the opportunity to reiterate my determination to drive up the share of public contracts going to Welsh businesses. We will rewrite procurement rules to prioritise local supply chains, fair work and community benefit and make it easier for Welsh firms to bid by simplifying processes, actively supporting SMEs to compete. And on top of that, we will hold public bodies to account also, so that more of that £8 billion spend, as was mentioned there, stays in Wales.

Steven Rodaway (Reform UK, Gŵyr Abertawe)

I'd like to thank the Member for raising this important question. First Minister, in Reform we know the importance of supporting local Welsh business, especially in my constituency of Gŵyr Abertawe. Wales is a nation of small businesses, yet too few Welsh firms successfully grow into medium-size and large businesses. While parties often speak about supporting local businesses, growth ultimately depends on creating the conditions for firms to invest, expand and take on staff. Can you therefore set out what specific measures the Government will take to help Welsh businesses scale up, and explain what ambition can be reconciled with the increasing costs many firms face through taxation, regulation, bureaucracy and high energy prices? Thank you.

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

We clearly share a common ambition to grow the indigenous businesses that we have here in Wales. The Cabinet Minister for enterprise often speaks of that need to grow that missing middle in Wales, and that is precisely what we will try to do. It will be one of the driving forces of the new development agency to grow those businesses. We want them to grow and succeed, without losing their roots in Welsh communities too. It's about creating a simpler, stronger business support system with a clear front door for firms. The development agency itself will not only help Welsh businesses to start, but to scale, which is so, so important. And in everything that we do, if we are to achieve our aims about closing the productivity gap with the UK, the role of Welsh businesses and the support given to them by Government will be absolutely key in that.

Mike Hedges (Labour, Gŵyr Abertawe)

It's lovely to be discussing the Swansea economy. The engineering supply chain within the Swansea bay city region has been particularly hard hit by the reduction in steel production at Tata Steel in Port Talbot. Can the First Minister explain, given the challenges currently facing manufacturing businesses, why substantial Welsh Government grants and business support are available within the Neath Port Talbot area, while businesses in Swansea appear to have access to little or no equivalent support, albeit some of them are only a couple of hundred yards over the border? I firmly believe the Welsh Government should be providing meaningful assistance to businesses throughout the wider region during these challenging economic conditions, and not be implementing very large rent increases.

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

The Member draws attention to the situation within his particular constituency, as I would expect him to. And whilst I'm unable to draw comparisons, because I don't have the numbers here, between what happens precisely on the border between one constituency and the next, I can say this: when I had initial conversations with my Cabinet Minister for enterprise about the kind of remit that we would want the new development agency to have, I made it clear that I was pretty open-minded about the way it worked, because I wanted that flexibility in place as it developed its place within that landscape of the Welsh economy. One thing I did say was that I was determined that, in everything it did and in everything that we do, there is a recognition of making sure that prosperity is spread and that there is no creating pockets of prosperity where one area is able to prosper not necessarily at the expense of another, but where it feels as if it's an unlevel playing field. That is something that's going to be at the core of our approach to promoting prosperity: making sure that everybody has a slice of that cake.

Joe Martin (Reform UK, Caerdydd Penarth)

5. What assessment has the Government made of the potential risks to public safety of the Nation of Sanctuary scheme? OQ64186

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

The nation of sanctuary approach promotes safer, more united communities by working with partners to support integration, safeguard vulnerable people and identify and address risks appropriately.

Joe Martin (Reform UK, Caerdydd Penarth)

Defenders of the nation of sanctuary scheme will point to the fact that the primary recipients of aid have been Ukrainian families fleeing Putin's invasion. Whilst I don't know why it's necessary to spend additional money over and above what Westminster already spends to help Ukrainian families, you won't find anyone seriously contending that they're the reason the scheme should be scrapped. But that's because, so far, there have been zero instances of Ukrainian refugees trying to behead people in the streets. The same cannot be said for Sudanese asylum seekers. Simply ask Stephen Ogilvie from Belfast, or the family of Rhiannon Whyte, who was murdered, or any of the 226 women who were raped by Sudanese men in 2024 alone—these being the same men your Ministers Mabon ap Gwynfor and Sioned Williams said Wales must welcome. So, First Minister, what will you do to make sure that when the next inevitable attack happens, it doesn't take place in Wales?

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

I guess, Llywydd, we're going to have to get used to this kind of contribution, where there is an attempt here to drive wedges between communities. And I, as First Minister, and I know I speak for my Government, will not rise to that from the Reform benches. Yes, the nation of sanctuary policy did house mostly Ukrainian refugees. I understand the difficulty that the Member has in addressing that issue, given the fact that the former leader of Reform in Wales is currently serving a lengthy jail term for taking money from the Russians, and one of the first calls made by their finance spokesperson was to tear down the Ukraine flag flying outside our Senedd. Let's focus here on what unites us. Let's focus on the leadership that's incumbent on all of us to show in order to create cohesion between communities.

I will remind the Member that today is the tenth anniversary of the murder of Jo Cox. Our thoughts are with her family today, and our focus as leaders in politics in Wales should be on finding ways of getting over divisions rather than trying to create them.

Lindsay Whittle (Plaid Cymru, Blaenau Gwent Caerffili Rhymni)

In the run-up to the May elections, two schoolgirls, Ukrainian schoolgirls, were attacked—physically and verbally abused—in Caerphilly town. As someone who's lived in the Valleys all my life, and I know our communities are built on warmth and a deep sense of social justice, I have to say that's not the town I know and love. We recognise the reality that refugees are bringing to our towns and contributing to society, and there are good and bad in all societies, I would say to you. First Minister, will you continue to ensure that we say to the Ukrainian community, and all communities, that you are welcome here and we will always support the Ukrainian community who have fled the war, as you previously referred to?

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

I certainly will, and I hope I speak for all of this Senedd in saying that we have been proud to be able to support people who came here from Ukraine to flee Putin's bullets. I remember the film shown on Newyddion on S4C of a girl who'd come from Ukraine and who was at the school in Moelfre, and she was asked what her favourite Welsh word was, and she said with immense pride 'archfarchnad'. So, I'm not sure which archfarchnad, which supermarket, particularly impressed her, but it just showed me in that little instance—and there were other children there too—that we can provide a home for Ukrainians. And no, Wales doesn't have the power to decide who seeks asylum here, but we do have the power here to decide what attitude we show, as a nation, towards people who end up here and how kind we decide to be towards them.

Shav Taj (Labour, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

First Minister, like many in this Chamber, clearly, I share the fact that I am a proud child of immigrants myself, and I'm also really proud of the fact that my late father chose Wales over and above England, where he first arrived. He came here, he looked around him and actually the community of Bridgend and Port Talbot made him feel welcome. Now, the nation of sanctuary, ultimately, is about keeping our communities safe, and when people are coming over here—. And, quite often, people are coming here temporarily because they are seeking refuge because they are scared. Now, to conflate the issue of immigration with the nation of sanctuary and then, of course, some of the vile stuff that we've just been hearing, is actually really shocking. I think it's disturbing. It's disturbing for the children who visit the Senedd, who will be sitting up in the gallery watching our debate here. And the fact that we can actually be having this type of interchange in a place like this I think is pretty damning and telling of some of the voices, unfortunately, that are here.

Given that immigration and security checks are actually governed by robust UK-wide systems, and, of course, the Wales nation of sanctuary is about integration and support, does the First Minister, then, agree that suggesting this link between sanctuary and risks to public safety is not supported by evidence and actually risks unnecessarily stoking up fear amongst our communities and amongst the public of Wales?

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

I certainly associate myself with those comments and agree with them, and make the point again that it's our job here to show leadership on the kind of debate. And that is one positive that comes out of this, that we are able to show leadership and to show that we will not be cowed by those who are intolerant and want to seek division; we can put forward a more respectful argument.

Sam Rowlands (Conservative, Fflint Wrecsam)

I think it's absolutely right for Members of this place to ask for assurances from its Government as to the safeguarding arrangements that are in place for any type of people across our country, because safeguarding our communities is a fundamental role of all elected Members in this place.

The First Minister will be aware that one of the biggest safeguarding scandals of our time has been that of the grooming gangs seen across the UK, and it shows what happens when authorities fail to ask difficult questions or to properly investigate concerns: victims being let down. We have a duty to make sure that those mistakes never are repeated. That's why I'm disappointed that Plaid Cymru has refused to back a Wales-wide grooming gangs inquiry. At a time when survivors are asking for answers, surely we should be looking at those issues more closely, not shutting down further scrutiny. So, if the Welsh Government is confident that safeguarding measures are working across Wales, why won't it support a Wales-wide inquiry to help give victims the answers they deserve and reassure the public that lessons have been learned?

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

That was a very creative way, Llywydd, of aligning himself with the comments, rather too closely, of the Member from Reform.

On grooming gangs, I'm quite clear that we need to understand exactly what is happening. Policing is not devolved, of course, to Wales, but this Government will support any measures to make sure that we understand the threats faced by be it young people or women in Wales, in whatever guise that might be.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

And finally on this question, Anthony Slaughter.

Anthony Slaughter (Green, Caerdydd Penarth)

On this, last night, I had the privilege of attending the Welsh Refugee Council's nation of sanctuary awards. Here, I heard stories from inspiring individuals from several countries, of people who, despite having escaped great hardship, have thrown themselves into helping others in their local community, inspiring and uplifting tales of courage and resilience—people who have even set up new community spaces to help others—showing just how much the nation of sanctuary builds community cohesion and inclusion. This is the opposite of any threat to public safety. What does ensure threats to public safety is the constant peddling of misinformation for cheap political gain. The stories of the people I met last night clearly illustrated the impact of connection over division, and the difference it makes to Welsh life. Would the First Minister join me in acknowledging and celebrating the invaluable contribution those that have been welcomed to Cymru under this scheme have made to our nation?

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

My Deputy First Minister was also very proud to be at the event last night and to have been able to give an address there. Again, I want to associate myself with the Member's words, clearly showing again an understanding of the importance of showing leadership. What that means is not encouraging people to vent anger on the streets, as other political leaders have sought to do. That is what undermines cohesion, that is what creates violence, that is what creates the risks that face our communities. It's pleasing to see that, within this Senedd, there is still a very firm majority for the cohesive, positive view of the way that we can work together for the greater good.

Mike Hedges (Labour, Gŵyr Abertawe)

6. How is the Welsh Government promoting the use of artificial intelligence in the health service? OQ64135

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

We're supporting the safe and responsible adoption of artificial intelligence in the health service. In partnership with the NHS, we're exploring how such technologies can improve patient access to services, reduce the administrative burden for healthcare professionals and assist with diagnostics and treatment plans.

Mike Hedges (Labour, Gŵyr Abertawe)

Thank you for that answer, First Minister. As you know, in Wales, like most of western Europe, we have an ageing population, over half the Welsh Government's expenditure is on health and social care, and we have long waiting lists for hospital treatment. We need to use technology to improve health outcomes, speed up treatment and improve treatments.

We have research telling us that AI-powered devices help surgeons perform minimally invasive procedures with greater precision and accuracy, reducing the risks of errors and complications, and that AI can be used for personalised patient communication, including sending patients scheduling reminders, health tips and suggested next steps, improving patient engagement and adherence to treatment plans. AI can also be used to predict which patients are at risk of becoming frequent users of emergency services, allowing for earlier intervention and potentially reducing demand on emergency departments. Which of these is the Welsh Government going to use, or are there other ones?

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

We have a list there of potential technological and AI interventions that can genuinely help us transform the health service. We've made it one of the central parts of our plans to make healthcare sustainable for the future, because in the face of an ageing population, it's that sustainability, perhaps, that's the greatest challenge of all. The role of digital and AI are hugely important in that.

It is all of the above that the Member mentioned. It's things like ambient voice technology and other uses of AI. I have no doubt that AI has the potential to bring about efficiencies for the clinicians and professionals in the health service. If we can safely introduce AI technology, clinicians and practitioners' time can be spent with patients and not on paperwork. It's not just getting it done more efficiently, there's a potential to do things better too, which is something that we should all aim to do.

Nigel Williams (Reform UK, Fflint Wrecsam)

Can I thank the First Minister for the answer there and can I thank Mike Hedges for the question? I'd like to probe it a little bit deeper if I could. So, can the First Minister inform the Senedd which AI tools are already operational, which remain in pilot, what evidence justified their approval, and, more importantly, where accountability lies if an algorithm results in a poor clinical decision? Diolch.

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

I'm afraid I can't explain or describe which exact AI tools are in use. I'll see if we can write to the Member to give a taste of the kinds of tools that are already in place. But the key thing is that we are at, still, the beginning of a revolution here, and one of the ways that we need to act now is to find which tools are best, and they will almost certainly be incomplete tools as of now, but to find out which ones provide most promise for the future. We have technologies being developed in Wales that we want to support for the economic benefits that that brings, but I'll see if I can get some details to the Member.

Natasha Asghar (Conservative, Casnewydd Islwyn)

First Minister, I was pleased to see the Welsh NHS grow from using a basic app during COVID to being the first in the UK to use AI in all of its hospitals and to support stroke patients. Yet, while we have the technology here in Wales, we still need the workforce to apply it. As Professor Stuart Allen, director of the Centre for Social Care and Artificial Intelligence Learning, said last year, and I quote:

'These tools should support humans, not replace them. We must make sure no one is left out because of a digital divide or lack of access.'

First Minister, we're currently facing extreme pressures in the NHS workforce—it's not a secret to any of us—and while AI in stroke services is very welcome, the latest median ambulance waiting time for the orange category, which includes stroke patients, was nearly one and a half hours. Our nursing workforce is also crying out for protected time for continuing professional development, which I'm sure you would agree would indeed help deliver a skilled workforce. Therefore, I'd like to know here today how specifically your Welsh Government's approach to balancing AI with the workforce needs will be different from that of the previous Welsh Government that we've had here in Wales. Thank you.

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

The important thing to say is that AI isn't about replacing staff, it's not about replacing clinical judgment, for example, it's about reducing administrative tasks so that clinicians can focus on the parts of the job that only humans can do. As the Member says, where we have shortages, the advantage of freeing up the time of nurses, doctors and others through the effective use of technology is that they can then really be using their time on the front line, getting to grips with those waiting times and ambulance handovers and so on. As I say, we're at the beginning of understanding where this revolution in digital in healthcare can take us, but I can assure you that it's a matter that my Cabinet Minister for Health and Care takes great interest in.

Sera Evans (Plaid Cymru, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

7. What action is the Welsh Government taking to promote a cross-government approach to improving outcomes for neurodivergent people? OQ64164

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

We are committed to a whole-system approach to neurodivergence, building on the autism code of practice to improve consistency, reduce inequalities and deliver better outcomes across Wales. We will strengthen workforce training and awareness, promote earlier, needs-led support through closer collaboration across education, health and social care, and ensure the voices and lived experience of neurodivergent people are central to shaping policy and services.

Sera Evans (Plaid Cymru, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Thank you for that response, First Minister. One of the things that strikes me in speaking to neurodivergent people, their families and specialist providers is that very rarely is their experience of public service limited to one department or to one service, and they tell me time and again that significant sums have been invested over a number of years across different parts of the system, but they are all agreed that the outcomes haven't improved as much as expected, and the services aren't integrated across different areas. With that in mind, how are Ministers working together to ensure that funding and service-design decisions for neurodiversity are all pulling in the same direction? Thank you.

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

In a way, the answer's in the question again, and the Member realises the challenge, and collaboration across the Government is something that I hope will become a theme that we'll return to time and again. Work is already happening within the Government in terms of mapping out how that collaboration happens, whatever the issue.

And in this case, improving outcomes for neurodivergent people is something that is already running across the whole Government programme. That's the important thing; it's not just for one department, as the Member said. We're delivering this through the improvement programme on neurodivergence, and that is aligned very clearly with our commitment to one public service in Wales, and bringing health, education, social care, and local government and other partners together around outcomes that are shared by all of us. The measurement will be of how successful we are in making that happen, but I do agree completely with the principle that was brought up by the Member, namely that getting that collaboration right is the key to getting the outcomes or the results that we need for people.

Paul Davies (Conservative, Ceredigion Penfro)

First Minister, as you know, I introduced the Autism (Wales) Bill back in 2018, which I believed would deliver real and sustainable improvements for autistic people in Wales and their families—a Bill that I'm pleased to say that Plaid Cymru supported at the time. Now, as we know, the Bill was ultimately voted down by Welsh Labour and the Welsh Liberal Democrats, but with a new Government comes new opportunities to address this important issue. So, in light of this, can you confirm whether the Welsh Government will consider bringing forward legislation during this Senedd to support the autism community here in Wales, and ensure access to a timely diagnosis and appropriate services?

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

The Member is right that I and we on these benches were supportive of that legislative response, and going down the legislative route is something that can still be discussed. There is a significant programme of legislation that we need to pursue, but let's keep on talking about where opportunities might arise. What we can't do is wait for that legislative window and let that stop us from taking action that we're already able to take, of the kind that I mentioned in my previous answer, in making sure that Government works across departments to provide the kind of support that neurodivergent people should be able to expect from Government.

Helen Jenner (Reform UK, Bangor Conwy Môn)

8. What assurances will the First Minister provide rural communities that local concerns will be given genuine weight when large scale wind energy projects are being considered? OQ64189

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

We will review our planning and infrastructure policies to ensure the scale, siting and cumulative impact of energy developments, including transmission and distribution infrastructure, are properly considered through the planning system. The review will allow communities to express their views and ensure that local concerns are given appropriate weight when applications for energy developments are considered.

Helen Jenner (Reform UK, Bangor Conwy Môn)

Diolch. First Minister, residents are repeatedly told that their views matter, yet when developments of national significance are involved, the final decision can rest with Welsh Ministers rather than locally elected councillors. Does the First Minister accept that this creates a democratic deficit, and what assurances can he give communities that local opposition will not simply be overridden in pursuit of Welsh Government targets? Diolch yn fawr.

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

I think it's very important that decisions are ones that we are able to control here in Wales, and I hope the Member would join me in making the call for all energy projects to be devolved from Westminster to Wales, because in Westminster there's certainly no understanding of what's important to our communities, I believe.

We have in Wales the Infrastructure (Wales) Act 2024, which provides an up-to-date decision-making process for large-scale wind projects. Developers are required to provide robust evidence to support and justify their proposals, including the effect on communities. And what I've said, and I will repeat time and time again, is that this Government is serious about making sure that we are able to use those tools, including legislation already in place, to give communities a genuine voice, and whether it's on developers having to propose shared ownership, or the development of more nationally focused wealth funds that can help those communities, those are the principles that guide our thinking around renewables projects. We're in favour of renewables projects, but we're in favour of protecting communities in the context of their development too.

Rebeca Phillips (Plaid Cymru, Brycheiniog Tawe Nedd)

9. How will the Government ensure that economic development supports both rural and urban areas? OQ64168

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

The Welsh Government will ensure that economic development supports businesses across the country, with the 100 days plan looking to bring together a panel of experts to look at forming a national development agency to help unlock the potential of businesses across the whole of Wales.

Rebeca Phillips (Plaid Cymru, Brycheiniog Tawe Nedd)

Thank you, First Minister. As a nation, we are regularly towards the bottom of economic tables after over 26 years of Labour Government. The need to improve and strengthen the Welsh economy is clear, and the Plaid Cymru economic plan and the ideas set out in the manifesto are very promising. But we must ensure that everyone in our country can benefit from these improvements and that our vision for the economy works for many sectors and communities. How will the Welsh Government ensure that our rural areas are not forgotten and that they do receive the support that they deserve? Thank you.

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

I agree entirely. Economic activity and wealth have to be felt in all parts of the country, and in communities with different characteristics. One of the ideas behind Arfor, of course, was ensuring that rural areas that are Welsh speaking can feel that kind of economic activity that would usually be connected with large urban areas. We have set out a clear national mission as a Government to reduce the productivity gap with the UK Government over the next 10 years, and only if all parts of Wales succeed can we deliver that. We are embedding geographically balanced growth at the heart of our economic strategy. As I said in response to a previous question, economic prosperity and activity have to be felt in all parts of the country, and that ensures that all parts of Wales, rural and urban, can benefit from investment.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

And finally, First Minister, question 10, Cristiana Emsley.

Cristiana Emsley (Reform UK, Fflint Wrecsam)

10. What action is the Welsh Government taking to promote community cohesion and foster a shared sense of belonging across Wales? OQ64184

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

Respect, solidarity and fair play will guide how this Government builds fairer, safer and united communities. We want Wales to be a safe and inclusive nation where people and communities thrive. Our community cohesion programme is designed to promote cohesion and foster shared belonging across the whole of Wales.

Cristiana Emsley (Reform UK, Fflint Wrecsam)

Thank you. First Minister, as someone who came to the UK from eastern Europe and later chose to make Wales my home, I find this debate deeply important. I did not embrace Wales despite its identity, traditions and national symbols; I embraced Wales because of them. I learned its history, I respect its heritage and I proudly celebrate Y Ddraig Goch as the flag of the nation I now call home. Most people who settle here do exactly the same. Integration is a two-way process. Newcomers should be welcomed warmly, but Wales should never be asked to apologise for being Wales. So, can the First Minister give a clear answer? Does he agree that the Welsh flag and our national heritage are symbols of belonging and pride for all who live here, or does he believe they should be diluted or removed if some claim to find them exclusionary or offensive?

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

I find our flag to be a symbol of immense national pride and I don't support it being misused.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Thank you, First Minister.

2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Cwestiynau nawr i'r Gweinidog Cabinet dros Effeithiolrwydd Llywodraeth a'r Cyfansoddiad. Cwestiwn 1, Niamh Salkeld.

Niamh Salkeld (Plaid Cymru, Blaenau Gwent Caerffili Rhymni)

1. Will the Cabinet Minister provide an update on the progress being made to devolve rail funding? OQ64146

Dafydd Davies (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

Securing fairer rail funding, along with a pathway to full devolution, is a key priority for the Welsh Government. The First Minister has raised rail funding with the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. The Deputy Minister for Transport has written to the Secretary of State for Transport on this issue and is meeting soon with the UK rail Minister to progress those discussions.

Niamh Salkeld (Plaid Cymru, Blaenau Gwent Caerffili Rhymni)

Diolch, Cabinet Minister. Abertillery is a prime example of a community that is being held back by the UK Government's chronic underfunding of Wales's rail network. The proposed Abertillery spur would reconnect a town of around 10,000 people and serve up to 20,000 residents across the wider Ebbw Fawr valley, improving access to jobs and education, increasing footfall for local businesses and supporting town centre regeneration. This is not a speculative proposal. It was identified by the Burns commission, included in the Wales rail board pipeline, and has already undergone years of development work. Yet there is still no funding route to deliver it. Given the transformative impact this project could have, what representations is the Welsh Government making to the UK Government to secure Wales's fair share of rail funding and ensure that projects such as the Abertillery spur can finally become a reality?

Dafydd Davies (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

Thank you for the question.

Dafydd Davies (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

The figures are stark. The UK Government has promised an investment of £445 million, which sounds like a large figure, but when you compare it to the £4.5 billion owed to Wales under HS2 money, it is merely a drop in the ocean. That £4.5 billion would allow us to invest in Abertillery, it would allow us to invest in rail and bus services across the country. It is our fair share, it is chwarae teg for Wales. That is why I am proud that my colleague the Deputy Minister for Transport is pursuing this case energetically with the UK Government. It is only right, it is only fair.

Mike Hedges (Labour, Gŵyr Abertawe)

I have consistently argued for the devolution of rail funding. Asymmetric devolution has not worked. It hasn't worked in Britain, it hasn't worked in Spain. It is important that rail funding is devolved. The main question is how should the funding be calculated. Which of these does the Minister prefer: relative population, relative population with the 20 per cent addition that the Barnett formula provides, relative track length, or relative passenger numbers? Each of those will give you a different answer.

Dafydd Davies (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

Indeed, and I thank the Member for the question. There is clearly work to be done in our detailed negotiations with the UK Department for Transport. The Member will know that we would do pretty well out of relative track length, because of the geography of Wales. We have historically received a disproportionately low share of rail enhancement funding from the UK Government. Transport for Wales set out a vision of £14 billion of rail spending. That is the kind of rail funding that Wales needs to improve our rail services and to ensure that we have a twenty-first century rail system. I welcome the support of the Member and we will pursue those negotiations with the UK Government energetically.

Sarah Edwards (Reform UK, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

2. Will the Cabinet Minister confirm when the Welsh Government last conducted a fundamental review of the structure, capability and effectiveness of the Welsh civil service, and whether it has any plans to commission such a review? OQ64140

Dafydd Davies (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

Thank you. The Welsh Government is committed to continuous improvement, pursuing reform through its multi‑year WG2025 programme. This has helped to strengthen organisational capability and effectiveness, alongside improving workforce capacity and estate efficiency. We continue to work to align resources to priorities. Strong internal and external scrutiny helps to ensure continuous improvement. No stand-alone fundamental review is planned, although we remain open to conversations about how we strengthen the civil service in the Welsh Government.

Sarah Edwards (Reform UK, Sir Gaerfyrddin)

The Welsh civil service sits within the UK-wide Civil Service Commission framework. But that governs only whether appointments follow due process, not whether the institution is fit to deliver for Wales. The UK Government sits within that same framework and commissioned the Maude review anyway. In 27 years of devolution, no Welsh Government has done the equivalent. What evaluation has the Minister made of committing to an independent, externally led, publicly published review of the civil service's capability, or can he explain whether there is some alternative work under way?

Dafydd Davies (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

I thank the Member for the question. It is right to note that the Welsh civil service sits within the framework of the UK civil service. She will also be aware that the Permanent Secretary is responsible for the day-to-day running of the civil service. I think the Maude review, and the review in Scotland of the civil service, suggest a number of pointers. I know colleagues at the UK level are looking at civil service reform. It is a conversation that we as a Government, and I as the Government Minister responsible, are very open to having across this Senedd and more broadly.

I think it is very interesting and very telling that when we look at the figures for civil service employees over the past five years, there has been growth at the UK level, there has been significant growth of the civil service in Scotland, and yet in Wales, we've seen a fall in the number of civil servants. I'm not yet in a position to take a view as to whether our civil service complement is at the right level, but I think we should be having a serious, open and constructive conversation about what that level should be for the future. That is one I hope that all parties—and I welcome the input of the Member and others on the opposition benches into that conversation—would take part in.

Anna Nicholl (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

I welcome the question, but I am concerned that the opposition party has been constantly running down our public servants, calling for jobs and pay to be cut and for scrapping practices that support fairness in our workplaces. This will not deliver the improvements that our communities are calling out for. What Wales needs is political leadership that believes in our public services and our public servants. Wales needs leaders with new ideas and energy who can work with and inspire our public servants to deliver better outcomes. With that in mind, please could the Minister update the Chamber on his work in the Welsh Government to establish measurable outcomes and milestones?

Dafydd Davies (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

I thank the Member for her question. We are committed to public services in Plaid Cymru. It is part of our DNA. We are committed to effective and efficient public services. As part of that work, we have established a strengthened Cabinet office to oversee and regularly review progress, co-ordinate activity across Government and ensure that barriers to delivery are identified and resolved. This supports both effective internal monitoring and external scrutiny. Our plan is to make full use of existing high-quality data sources, ensuring that information used to track progress is robust and can be used with confidence. At the same time, we will be transparent where data gaps exist and consider how these can be addressed over time. I'm pleased to report that I've asked the chief statistician to work on these data issues. I'll be updating Members within the 100 days as to progress on those transparently published measures and dashboards that this Senedd can look at and scrutinise on a regular basis.

Shav Taj (Labour, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

I'm declaring an interest as a former national officer for the PCS union, which was one of the unions for the civil service, so I do know the civil service pretty well. Does the Minister agree that reform shouldn't be a euphemism for cuts and that the priority must be ensuring that the civil service has the capacity and the capability to deliver for the people of Wales, which ultimately means strengthening delivery, not cutting the Welsh civil service? What I would like to also hear is the words 'union' and 'social partnership', because you can't do this work without having the unions on your side and part of that process too.

Dafydd Davies (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

I thank the Member for the question. Absolutely, our view is that we should strengthen our capacity and capability to deliver on the people's priorities here in Wales. I am totally committed to the social partnership model. I should probably declare that I was once a member of the PCS union many years ago in one of my earlier professional backgrounds. I am committed to working with the trade unions. What we've seen, and what I've seen in my role already, is how productive and effective trade union representation can be in delivering and driving positive change across our public services.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

I now call on the party spokespeople to question the Cabinet Minister. First of all, Reform UK spokesperson, Adrian Mason.

Adrian Mason (Reform UK, Clwyd)

Diolch yn fawr, Lywydd. May I congratulate the Minister on his appointment? Minister, Plaid Cymru has long argued for more powers for Wales and greater responsibility here in Cardiff Bay. But Plaid cannot present itself as a new beginning after the Labour-Plaid era when, at key moments, it helped keep Labour in power. After 27 years of Labour-led devolution in health, education, transport and the economy, does the Minister accept that Plaid shares some responsibility for that record? Why should Wales hand more powers to the same governing consensus that helped create the failures it now claims it can fix?

Dafydd Davies (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

I welcome the opposition spokesperson to his role. We in Plaid Cymru are clear that we are a new Government, we set out a new course, focused on the people's priorities—on childcare, on child poverty, on the economy, on schools, on healthcare. I think it is clear to everyone in this Chamber that the legacy of 27 years of Labour Government led to their election result. That is why so many of our fellow countrymen and women voted for a new leadership for Wales, and that is a Plaid Cymru leadership.

Turning to the question of powers that you raise, for us, powers is about delivering the people's priorities. Therefore, if we can do a better job of delivering on justice and policing where we have integration with health and education, then that is what we will do, because it will improve the lives of people in Wales.

Adrian Mason (Reform UK, Clwyd)

Thank you. Minister, Plaid's manifesto is clear: it wants independence. But in the latest polling—and it's true—the people of Wales do not. So, is the Government pursuing independence by instalments—more powers, more separation, more institutions—without first asking the Welsh people the direct question? Will the Minister commit today that there will be no constitutional change by the backdoor, no move towards independence and no further substantive devolution without clear public consent?

Dafydd Davies (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

Let us begin with the question of independence. Our Prif Weinidog, our leader, set out clearly during the election, and it was clear in our manifesto, that there will be no referendum on independence during this term. I repeat that commitment here today, and I am happy to repeat it.

Let us move forward to your question about more powers. Where there are opportunities to improve the lives of people in Wales, then we will take them. There are discussions ongoing on natural resources and water and tackling the scandal of pollution in our rivers. Yes, we will pursue those negotiations with the UK Government with vigour, to seek to improve the lives of people in Wales. We will make no apology whatsoever for that. We are on a constitutional journey in Wales. It is a journey that is best served by consensus and collaboration, and that is what we will seek to do.

Adrian Mason (Reform UK, Clwyd)

Minister, I'm not sure if that was a straight answer to a straight question, because Wales deserves clarity. If the self-styled party of Wales has a constitutional agenda, it should be honest about where that agenda leads. Reform will hold this Government to account, and vague constitutional language will not be enough. So, Minister, we are told again and again that Wales needs more power, but, on health, education, transport, local government and the economy, the record of devolved delivery has fallen far short of what Wales was led to expect. So, before asking for yet more powers, will the Minister tell us plainly what measurable benefit each proposed new power would deliver and the business case there? If he cannot, people will ask the obvious question: is this really better Government, or independence by instalments, a constitutional path to independence by stealth?

Dafydd Davies (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

Thank you. I think I was very clear that there would be no referendum in this Senedd term. Turning to the matter of delivery, I have been clear, and our party was clear during the election, the 27 years of failure to deliver was an indictment of the previous Labour Government. The challenge is to deliver on childcare, on child poverty, on health, on education, on the economy, and by those measures shall we be known.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

The Welsh Labour spokesperson, Huw Thomas.

Huw Thomas (Labour, Caerdydd Penarth)

May I welcome the Minister to his role and wish him well, in the hope that there is enough air in the tyres of the ministerial bike, and enough wind in his sails too?

Minister, last week, the Senedd voted in favour of bringing legislative proposals forward during the first year of the Senedd to establish a statutory negotiating body for school support staff.

Huw Thomas (Labour, Caerdydd Penarth)

Can you confirm, as the Cabinet Minister with responsibility for the legislative programme and the programme for government, that you are now respecting the Senedd's wishes and have begun preparing legislation for a school support staff negotiating body to be contained in the legislative programme? Diolch yn fawr.

Dafydd Davies (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

I thank the spokesperson for his best wishes. I wish him well, too. He will know that I, as a constituency Member, follow two of his colleagues who were very enthusiastic about environmental and sustainability issues and about active travel. I pay tribute to them as well, if I may—Jenny Rathbone and Julie Morgan—and I wish them well in their retirement.

In terms of the legislative programme, detailed work is happening at present among the legal services team to draw up that programme, to consider the complexities of the significant programme that we have before us in terms of primary legislation and secondary legislation that we will need to scrutinise. Also, as the Member will know, there's a significant programme in the light of the King's Speech in the UK in terms of legislative consent motions and so forth, and therefore that work is progressing at present. I hope that, as a Government, we'll be in a position to update the Senedd and to make a statement during the coming weeks on the legislative programme.

Huw Thomas (Labour, Caerdydd Penarth)

I thank the Minister for that response. There wasn't a great deal of confirmation given there, and I do hope that the teaching assistants, cleaners and cooks listening to this discussion won't feel that their interests will face an uphill struggle, if I can continue with my cycling references.

Huw Thomas (Labour, Caerdydd Penarth)

Turning now, Minister, to what you have said you would be doing, on your manifesto during the election, the Institute for Fiscal Studies warned that Plaid Cymru's policies would deepen the cuts faced by unprotected services. Welsh Labour, my party, warned that your policies were undeliverable without severe cuts. Plaid Cymru, of course, told the electorate that you had costed policies but that you wouldn't publish them. So, given, Minister, that you have responsibility for planning the Welsh Government's legislative programme and oversight of the programme for government, can you today unambiguously confirm on the record in the Senedd that every pledge in your manifesto will make its way into the legislative programme and the programme for government in the form that they are outlined in your manifesto? And if the answer is 'no', what are you already deprioritising? Thank you.

Dafydd Davies (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

I thank him for the question.

Dafydd Davies (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

As I set out to the Senedd, we are undertaking detailed work on the legislative programme at the moment and we will be making an announcement to the Senedd in due course on those priorities. But the Prif Weinidog, I and my Cabinet colleagues have been clear: our priorities set out in the manifesto around childcare, around child poverty, around the health service and reducing waiting times, around improving standards in school, around improving the economy are our priorities, and people must understand that those are the areas that we seek to deliver on and those are the areas on which we will be judged by the people of Wales.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

The Welsh Conservatives' spokesperson, Sam Rowlands.

Sam Rowlands (Conservative, Fflint Wrecsam)

Diolch, Lywydd. Cabinet Minister, let me also congratulate you on your role and thank you for your early engagement also. Cabinet Minister, what assessment have you made of how much ministerial and civil service time and resource is likely to be spent on constitutional and independence-pursuing work over the Senedd term, and how do you think that that may affect the Government's capacity to focus on core public service delivery?

Dafydd Davies (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

I thank the spokesperson.

Dafydd Davies (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

I welcome him to his role and thank him for his congratulations. For me, and for us, the test of this Government will be how we deliver on those bread-and-butter issues, if you'd like to describe them as such, on childcare, on child poverty and the issues I've outlined. I expect, and we have agreed, that the Government will focus on those priorities. I have outlined, and I'll outline over the next few weeks in my oral statement, my priorities on the constitution. I will work across this Senedd on matters of the constitution and seek to bring consensus and collaboration to those issues. Therefore, in line with the Plaid Cymru manifesto, our focus will be on those public priorities that we have set out, and, on the constitution, it will be focused on those very specific priorities that we set out in our manifesto that will improve people's lives—on water, on policing, on justice, on the Crown Estate, to improve people's lives in Wales.

Sam Rowlands (Conservative, Fflint Wrecsam)

Thank you for your response, Cabinet Minister. I agree with you that the people of Wales expect their Government in Wales to focus on what really matters in their day-to-day lives—the economy and those important public services. But there is a very real risk, of course, that a Plaid Cymru Government will spend far too much energy on those constitutional debates and the push for independence. And you will know, of course, Cabinet Minister, that economic analysis has suggested that independence would cost the average working taxpayer around £11,000 a year—a huge figure that highlights the level of risk and uncertainty being attached to this debate at a time when families are already under significant pressure. You'll also be aware that your own finance Cabinet Minister recently stated that the outlook for the Government's finances is challenging, and added that there is probably more challenge than she expected there to be, which raises further questions about whether it is the right focus of your attention to pursue this agenda of independence here in Wales. So, Cabinet Minister, explain what assessment has been made of the impact this ongoing focus on the constitution is having on your ability to deliver on your core responsibilities. Surely, your priority right now should be to get the powers that you already have working well for the people of Wales.

Dafydd Davies (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

I can assure the Member that there is plenty of energy to go around in this Plaid Cymru Government and Plaid Cymru Cabinet. I'm not sure whether I was clear enough, but I shall repeat myself again: our priority is delivering tangible improvements to people's lives in Wales. Every morning, I receive from my colleagues in the Cabinet office a spreadsheet of progress on all of those priorities that we've set out and how we are progressing on those 100-day plans. We have set out clearly the way forward we want to go on the constitution, and those are our priorities.

Peredur Owen Griffiths (Plaid Cymru, Casnewydd Islwyn)

3. What steps is the Cabinet Minister taking to establish a national commission on Wales's constitutional future? OQ64145

Dafydd Davies (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

A new national commission is being developed as part of our 100-day plan. It will oversee progress on further devolution, engage with the public in a national conversation about Wales's constitutional future, and strengthen the evidence base for further reform. I will update the Senedd as this important work develops.

Peredur Owen Griffiths (Plaid Cymru, Casnewydd Islwyn)

Thank you very much for that answer, and it's high time that Wales's messy constitutional settlement was sorted out. Successive Labour Governments were content to see the matter kicked into the long grass, but this inertia has failed people and communities in Wales. Plaid Cymru has asked for further power for our country, not just for the sake of it, but for the chance to make the changes that will deliver positive impacts for our people and communities. On this issue, there must be more action and more movement in this Senedd, and I'm pleased that you have a lot of energy to do that.

A myriad of commissions, papers, books and opinions of learned scholars have said that the current settlement needs to be ripped up and that a new and improved one should be created that reflects Wales's position in the present day. So, how will the commission draw on the various commissions and papers that have gone before it? What kind of new evidence will need to be gathered by the national commission to complement the existing knowledge base? And how will the national conversation be facilitated on this issue?

Dafydd Davies (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

Well, thank you for a range of questions there. If we could start with building on the work that's been done in the past, I was fortunate to meet with the former archbishop, Rowan Williams, over recent days, and I will be meeting Laura McAllister in the coming days, because what I see the new commission doing is building on the good work that the independent commission did, and the Silk commission, the Thomas commission. There is a robust evidence base there.

What I will ask the commission to do and to discuss further is where the gaps are. Where are the elements where more work is needed? And one example that's already emerged is some of the work around how the function of justice within Welsh Government would look. What's the length and breadth of that? How would it be shaped in order to deliver successfully in terms of youth justice, for example? So, that's the kind of work that I would hope to see done there. But I would also wish to see more work done on participative democracy that draws people in, that generates that national conversation, and draws on all sorts of perspectives. We've heard a number of different perspectives on the constitutional future of Wales today, and we need to draw all of those perspectives together in a real national conversation that is led by the people.

Iain McIntosh (Reform UK, Brycheiniog Tawe Nedd)

Many congratulations and welcome to your place, Minister. Cabinet Minister, many of my constituents in Brycheiniog Tawe Nedd tell me that their priorities are reducing NHS waiting lists, improving public services, fixing our roads, supporting local businesses and addressing the rising costs of living. They rarely, if ever, raise constitutional reform. So, given the significant pressures on public finances, can you explain what evidence the Welsh Government has that establishing a national commission on Wales's constitutional future is a priority for the people of Wales, what the expected cost of such a commission would be, and whether you will ensure that its membership fairly reflects the full range of constitutional views across Wales, including those who believe that the focus should be on improving the delivery of devolved services, rather than pursuing further constitutional change? Diolch.

Dafydd Davies (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

I thank the Member for his congratulations and for the question. I think we've rehearsed several times the interplay between constitutional powers and priorities of the Government already in this question time; I suspect we might rehearse them a few more times before this Senedd term is out. I do want to make an absolute commitment, which is that the national commission that we are seeking to establish must be broad based and must reflect the wide range of views that the people of Wales hold. That is a commitment I am happy to make here in the Senedd. It is how we have operated as a party in the past, and it is how we seek to operate as a Government.

I would question the Member if no elector in Brycheiniog Tawe Nedd has no concern whatsoever of the sewage in their rivers or of the police on their street or of the windfarm developments and energy infrastructure. These are the very issues that are illuminated by some of the constitutional issues that we are currently grappling with, and we will seek to grapple with them and seek to ensure that those decisions are made in Wales and are driven by the priorities of the people of Brycheiniog Tawe Nedd and of Wales.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Question 4, Catherine Cullen.

Catherine Cullen (Reform UK, Blaenau Gwent Caerffili Rhymni)

Diolch, Llywydd. Congratulations on your new role.

Catherine Cullen (Reform UK, Blaenau Gwent Caerffili Rhymni)

4. What discussions has the Cabinet Minister had with the Cabinet Minister for Finance about the financial implications of devolving policing? OQ64137 [R]

Dafydd Davies (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

Devolving policing has been the recommendation of a series of independent commissions, dating back to the Silk commission in 2014. Each one of those commissions considered the financial implications amongst other implications in reaching their conclusions.

Catherine Cullen (Reform UK, Blaenau Gwent Caerffili Rhymni)

Can I thank the Minister for his answer? Minister, across my constituency of Blaenau Gwent Caerffili Rhymni, and right across Wales, people want your Welsh Government to get on with the day job. They want to see NHS waiting lists reduced. They want better jobs and higher salaries, and they want to see a better Welsh education system. What they don't want to see is their taxes wasted on devolving more powers. Given the costs associated with preparing for and implementing further devolution, why does this Plaid Government think this should be a priority, when so many of the public services that people rely upon are already under considerable pressure?

Dafydd Davies (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

Okay. So, I shall repeat again: our priorities are the NHS, are schools, are the economy, are child poverty and childcare. Llywydd, I think it'll be a very long four years if we carry on like this. However, the Member has highlighted one important area where we will be discussing with the UK Government, when we come round to policing. There clearly are negotiations to be had around the transfer of functions and how effectively those resources are transferred from the UK level to the Welsh level. We will be robust and energetic in those discussions with our UK counterparts.

I should also note—and some Members will be aware of this—there is a significant programme of policing reform being led by the UK Government at the moment, and therefore there is a significant opportunity, as part of those discussions, to advance the case for a more Welsh-focused solution to policing and justice in our country.

Mike Hedges (Labour, Gŵyr Abertawe)

Policing is one of the anomalies in the current devolution settlement. I led a debate back in 2013—it seems a long time ago now—that succeeded in this Chamber, calling for the devolution of policing. It didn't get very far, but it did get the majority's support in this Chamber. Policing is devolved to Northern Ireland, Scotland, London and other areas with elected mayors, but not to Wales. Different devolution settlements for Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland do not work, as I said earlier. Currently, Wales gets 20 per cent extra for devolved services than England gets. Why would it be different for policing?

Dafydd Davies (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

I thank the Member for his support for devolving policing, and he has set out previously in this Chamber and elsewhere the case for devolution. Policing, of course, is not only, as he reminds us, devolved to Scotland and Northern Ireland, but also to a number of the mayors in England. It is a complete anomaly that Wales sits apart from that. It is an anomaly that we hope to address as a Government.

Jane Dodds (Liberal Democrat, Brycheiniog Tawe Nedd)

Congratulations on your role too.

Jane Dodds (Liberal Democrat, Brycheiniog Tawe Nedd)

Unlike Reform UK, I do want to talk about something that affects the people of Wales directly and affects women. The devolution of justice and policing is not an abstract debate—it has real human consequences, and in the last Senedd, the Equality and Social Justice Committee concluded that the current devolution settlement is causing direct harm to women in Wales. There is no women's prison in Wales. Welsh women serving custodial sentences are held in England far from their families and far from their communities, and far from the support services that they need.

We do not want more prison places. We do not want more prison places for women here in Wales. What we want are other resources, such as what was promised us under the last Labour Government, the Swansea residential women's centre. It is vital and was promised to us. So, what will you be doing in order to ensure that women in Wales are not being failed? What is your plan for securing these powers and a timetable? Diolch yn fawr.

Dafydd Davies (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

Thank you very much to the Member. There are a number of issues there in terms of services for women that are currently not good enough under the current justice system. I do think that there is work to be done in terms of the justice system and devolution. There is work to be done in terms of policing that is related to devolution. In order to make progress on this, we must build an effective, productive relationship with the UK Government. A meeting has already been arranged with the Minister for policing in the UK, the Deputy First Minister and myself.

Last Wednesday, I was at the Home Office at the ministerial anti-terrorism board, where we discussed issues of collaboration between devolved Governments and the UK Government. And what was striking, even in such grave circumstances, was that there needed to be effective collaboration between justice, health and education.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Question 5, Cristiana Emsley.

Cristiana Emsley (Reform UK, Fflint Wrecsam)

Diolch, Llywydd, and, Minister, congratulations on your appointment.

Cristiana Emsley (Reform UK, Fflint Wrecsam)

5. How will the Welsh Government demonstrate its commitment to public service reform to secure better outcomes for the people of Wales, ahead of seeking any further powers? OQ64142

Dafydd Davies (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

Supporting public services to tangibly improve people's lives is at the forefront of this Government's agenda. It is this principle that will guide us in any requests for new powers, as I've outlined already to some of your colleagues. Taking a one Welsh public service approach, we will reduce fragmentation, increase collaboration and invest in capability through a new national school of government.

Cristiana Emsley (Reform UK, Fflint Wrecsam)

Thank you. Minister, devolution demands trust, and trust is earned through competent stewardship of the powers you already possess. Yet, last week during a debate on women's rights, some Members walked out of the room and the Government failed to explain how it would uphold the law in practice. If you cannot reassure women that you understand and will faithfully apply the Equality Act 2010 as it stands, why should they trust you with even greater powers over their rights?

Dafydd Davies (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

Thank you for the question. I'm not wholly sure, Llywydd, how that relates to public service reform. However, I will make this commitment quite clearly, as my colleagues have already made: the Welsh Government will follow the law and will uphold the law in everything it does.

Alun Cox (Plaid Cymru, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

6. What steps is the Cabinet Minister taking to progress the devolution of justice, as recommended by the Commission on Justice in Wales? OQ64144

Dafydd Davies (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

This Government’s position is clear: justice should be fully devolved to Wales, as it is in Scotland and Northern Ireland. In the coming weeks, I’ll be meeting with UK Government Ministers to set out our position and to start those discussions. We will pursue the devolution of justice and policing as an immediate constitutional priority.

Alun Cox (Plaid Cymru, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

Diolch, Weinidog. We know that the current justice settlement undermines Wales, leading to complexity, confusion and poorer outcomes for our communities. The Commission on Justice in Wales found that, due to the Welsh Government often having to operate in reserved areas, almost 40 per cent of the total funding is actually contributed in Wales, above other tax revenue that is raised from Wales and then allocated by the UK Government to Wales. The commission states that:

‘This position is unsustainable when the Welsh Government has so little say in justice policy and overall spending.'

Furthermore, they conclude that there is no rational basis for Wales to be treated differently from Scotland and Northern Ireland when it comes to justice settlements, particularly as Wales has its own long legal tradition.

Devolving justice would allow the Welsh Government to align policy with its distinct and developing social, health and education policies and services and the growing body of Welsh law, allowing us to adopt a whole-system approach to tackling the root causes of offending. What assessment has the Government made on the positive effects of devolving justice for constituencies across Wales, such as mine?

Dafydd Davies (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

Our assessment is the exact points that the Member refers to there. Devolution would allow us to adopt a whole-system approach, embedding a consistent set of values led by evidence and trauma across all services. It would enable us to bring justice and policing together with the other devolved services that are vital to prevent offending, support victims and rehabilitate people.

Paul Marr (Reform UK, Ceredigion Penfro)

May I also add my congratulations to the Minister on his appointment, and may I thank the Member for his question? Minister, I'm quite sure that I speak for many other people across Wales when I say that, rather than looking for further devolved powers—and I say this respectfully, you're going to be looking for trust, as my colleague Cristiana Emsley has pointed out, in support for further powers—these people would actually like to see the problems fixed in Wales before they issue any trust for any further devolved powers. Minister, let me ask you this: what suitable qualifications do you have within your Government to effectively oversee the judicial system? After serving 20 years in Her Majesty's Prison Service, and more recently providing drug and alcohol interventions in police custody, I have seen first-hand the devastating effects of crime, both to the victim and the offender. This arguably makes me suitably qualified to scrutinise your plans.

Minister, in 2024 your party supported the decriminalisation of illegal drugs and proposed cleansing convictions for drug possession. If justice is devolved to Wales, would you pursue these policies, and what assurances can you give the public, the NHS, the police and the brave men and women who enter our prisons on a daily basis that decriminalisation would not be—[Interruption.]

Dafydd Davies (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

Diolch. Thank you for the question, and I pay tribute to the Member's long-standing service on our behalf, keeping everyone safe. I think there is an important discussion around probation, around prisons, around justice that we need to have, that we need to have as a Senedd, that we need to have as a nation, as we move towards devolving justice. As I mentioned, I was recently at the counter-terrorism ministerial board, where the Welsh Government could play a positive role in working with colleagues in the Home Office, right across the UK. That is what I expect our Government to do, and that is what I hope our Government would do were we successful in devolving justice.

David Mills (Reform UK, Brycheiniog Tawe Nedd)

7. How will the Cabinet Minister work with cabinet colleagues to deliver the Welsh Government's priorities? OQ64141

Dafydd Davies (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

The Government is united in its vision for Wales. That starts with our 100-day plan, which I am working collaboratively and co-operatively with all my Cabinet colleagues to deliver. The programme for government will build upon this foundation, with clarity of focus, improved cross-Government working and meaningful outcomes for the people of Wales.

David Mills (Reform UK, Brycheiniog Tawe Nedd)

In a written answer to a colleague, the Minister described delivery as driven by a sustained focus on outcomes and high-quality use of data, but there's a real difference between measuring activity—what Government has done—and measuring outcomes—what's actually changed for people. So, specifically, is there a single consistent framework that measures delivery against the programme for government on a comparable basis across all departments, or does each assess its own progress, in which case, a focus on outcomes is only as credible as the framework that captures them?

Dafydd Davies (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

I thank the Member for the question, and I have some sympathy for the points he makes. If we are to be successful, our Government must deliver on outcomes not on activities, because, if we deliver on outcomes, they will be felt and measurable to the people of Wales, and, when we face the electors in four-years times, we will be able to point to those outcomes that are not only in a Government press release but are felt in communities right across Wales. I'm working with colleagues, as I've mentioned, our director of statistics and others to develop those measurable outcomes, to develop dashboards, which will be transparently available, and I look forward to updating the Senedd in due course on progress on those matters.

Huw Irranca-Davies (Labour, Afan Ogwr Rhondda)

And finally, Cabinet Minister, question 8, Carrie Harper.

Carrie Harper (Plaid Cymru, Fflint Wrecsam)

8. What is the Cabinet Minister’s position on the devolution of policing, in light of policing reforms in England? OQ64143

Dafydd Davies (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

This Government’s position is clear and unequivocal: justice, including policing, should be fully devolved to Wales, as it is in Scotland and Northern Ireland. The policing reforms in England are an excellent opportunity to progress the devolution of policing.

Carrie Harper (Plaid Cymru, Fflint Wrecsam)

Diolch, Cabinet Minister. Before being elected to the Senedd, I served on the north Wales police and crime panel. There still remains considerable uncertainty about the future of policing in Wales. We are in the extraordinary position of being the only UK nation without responsibility for policing. Indeed, as has been said, many metropolitan areas in England now have greater powers over policing than Wales does, yet the services that interact most closely with policing every day—health, education, housing and social services—are already devolved. As the UK Government pursues the biggest reforms to policing in England since the 1960s, does the Cabinet Secretary agree that the case for devolving policing to Wales has never been stronger? As a point of principle, if powers over policing are considered appropriate for Greater Manchester, the west midlands and other English regions, then surely they are appropriate for Wales. So, can the Cabinet Secretary outline what discussions he has had with the UK Government to ensure that Wales is not left behind once again and to secure the devolution of this vital service?

Dafydd Davies (Plaid Cymru, Caerdydd Ffynnon Taf)

I can wholeheartedly agree with that. In principle, and on principle, policing should be devolved to Wales. The current reforms offer an excellent opportunity. As I mentioned in a previous answer, I have already met with colleagues at the Home Office. The Dirprwy Brif Weinidog and I will be pursuing the conversation around further devolution with the policing Minister in coming weeks, and, ahead of that, we will be in discussions with our police and crime commissioners here in Wales, with the chief constables, with representatives from local government and the policing partnership board for Wales at the end of the month. We are also arranging meetings with Lord Hogan-Howe. There is a significant opportunity here to get it right. I look forward to working with Members in Government, but across this Chamber, in delivering the devolution of policing to Wales.

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Thank you, Minister.

3. Business Statement and Announcement

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Item 3 is the business statement and announcement. I call on the Trefnydd, Heledd Fychan.

Heledd Fychan (Plaid Cymru, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. There is one change to this week's business. The title of the Cabinet Minister for Education and the Welsh Language's statement has changed to 'Priorities for Education'. This will mean that a separate statement on the Welsh language will follow next month in order to ensure full scrutiny of the Minister.

Draft Plenary business for the next three weeks is set out in the business statement and it's available to Members electronically.

Llŷr Powell (Reform UK, Blaenau Gwent Caerffili Rhymni)

Will the Government update the Senedd with an oral or written statement on how it's working with HMRC, Trading Standards Wales, local authorities and the Welsh police forces regarding the reported tax evasion, money laundering, labour exploitation or any other criminal activity associated with car washes, barber shops and vape retailers operating in Wales?

Heledd Fychan (Plaid Cymru, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

May I thank the Member for raising this issue? I would suggest that you write to the relevant Minister with your concerns. Clearly, some answers have been given in the past on these areas; you heard from the Minister just now in terms of how we want to work in relation to justice. So, I would encourage you to write to the Minister.

Vikki Howells (Labour, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

Trefnydd, can I ask for a statement from the Cabinet Minister for Health and Care on the MBRRACE-UK 'state of the nation' report that was published last week, which shows that Wales has recorded the highest stillbirth rate in the UK for the third consecutive year, and, between 2022 and 2024, had the highest combined rate of stillbirths and neonatal deaths across all four of the UK nations? Given these concerning findings, what specific actions is the Welsh Government taking to reduce stillbirths and neonatal deaths and improve outcomes for babies and families in Wales?

Heledd Fychan (Plaid Cymru, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

Can I thank the Member for raising this really crucially important issue, an issue that I hope unifies us as a Senedd in wanting to see action? I'm very pleased that the Business Committee this morning chose to have a Member's debate on this very issue next week. There will, of course, be a full Government response during that debate. Like you, I have received casework on this heartbreaking situation and I think we all acknowledge the devastating impact of losing a baby at any stage of pregnancy. So, I'm glad that we found cross-party consensus this morning to have that Member's debate, and I very much look forward to seeing how we can work cross-party on such an important issue.

Darren Millar (Conservative, Clwyd)

Can I raise my concerns about the fact that an announcement to extend childcare was made to the media prior to its being made to this Senedd Chamber? This is where announcements of that sort ought to be made, Trefnydd, and I think it's incumbent upon all Welsh Governments to honour and respect Members of this Senedd by bringing their announcements to this Senedd first, in order that they can be properly scrutinised.

Secondly, can I call for a statement on the support that is available for carers in Wales? Last week was Carers Week, and one of the things that many carers suffer from is complete burn-out because of the support that they're giving to their loved ones. There is a need for a statutory right to respite in my view and in the view of the Welsh Conservatives, and I would like to know what the new Welsh Government's attitude is towards that.

Finally, can I request an update from the Welsh Government, the new Welsh Government Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability, on the action that the Welsh Government is taking in order to develop and support the development and roll-out of a squirrelpox vaccine in order to protect the red squirrel population in Wales, which I am very proud to say that I continue to be the species champion for?

Heledd Fychan (Plaid Cymru, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

Can I thank the Member for raising three points?

On childcare, I think that every Member in this Chamber is fully aware of Plaid Cymru's policy position and that this announcement was in line with our policy position in terms of the roll-out.

On the second point, points were made last week and raised in the business statement around Carers Week. I made my views clear there in terms of our support for carers, and further information will be provided in due course.

Regarding the squirrelpox vaccine, may I suggest that you write to the Cabinet Secretary for that update? And I'm proud to see that you are continuing that long tradition of being the champion for the red squirrel in this Senedd.

Lis McLean (Plaid Cymru, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

I would like to request a statement from the Cabinet Minister for Finance regarding the allocation of regional funding to Wales. As Members will know, Llinos Medi, the MP for Anglesey, drew attention to the significant gap of £86 million between the £633 million that was supposed to come to Wales through the local growth fund and the £547 million that actually came to Wales. This, once again, is an example of how the UK Labour Government has undermined devolution in Wales.

However, it's important to remember that the Welsh Government has control over how that £547 million can be spent. The previous Government decided to allocate 70 per cent of the funding to capital expenditure and 30 per cent to revenue. In speaking to the third sector, one message has emerged consistently: this division does not offer long-term stability, and nor does it enable the sector to maintain and strengthen core services, which are essential for communities like Merthyr Tydfil. Therefore, I'd like to ask the Minister: will the new Welsh Government be prepared to reconsider this allocation in order to ensure that more revenue funding is available to prioritise those core services that sustain our communities?

Heledd Fychan (Plaid Cymru, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

May I thank the Member for raising this important issue? I am on the record in trying to push the previous Government in this area, as are many others in this Chamber. First of all, I'd like to recognise the financial pressures that those sectors do face and the truly valuable work that they do. We were consistent in opposition in terms of how vulnerable this decision left these organisations and the impact that this would have on people in our communities.

The Cabinet Minister for Enterprise, Connectivity and Energy is reviewing the arrangements for the local growth fund that were agreed on between the previous Welsh Government and the UK Government. The first block of funding has already been allocated to local government for 2026-27, and we will keep these transitional arrangements under review to monitor progress.

Jason O'Connell (Reform UK, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

Trefnydd, can we have a statement from the Cabinet Minister for enterprise on the decision by Marshall Land Systems to relocate its operations to Merthyr Tydfil? At a time of heightened global tensions, and with instability and indecision on defence spending rising in Westminster, Wales must play its part in continuing to support Britain's defence industry and seek opportunities such as this to expand our manufacturing base across Wales. This investment is a major vote of confidence in Merthyr and south Wales, bringing skilled jobs and long-term opportunities to a deprived area. The Welsh Government must ensure that Welsh workers and businesses benefit fully, and go further by positioning Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr, alongside neighbouring Valleys, as a hub for defence and advanced manufacturing, driving high-skilled jobs and much-needed investment. Diolch.

Heledd Fychan (Plaid Cymru, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

I thank the Member for raising this issue, and I should declare, Dirprwy Lywydd, that this is within the constituency that I represent, and this is an issue that I will be engaging with the Government on as a local Member. What I would ask the Member to do, because of the nature of what he has raised—. Of course, it is relevant to the statement of priorities that was made by the Minister, but I would recommend that the Member does write to the Cabinet Minister and ensures that that response does come back to him formally.

Janet Finch-Saunders (Conservative, Bangor Conwy Môn)

Ambulance waiting times I'd like a statement on, please. Emergency category 1 red ambulance response times in the Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board are now facing severe and over delays, as a result, of course, of something I raised last week, that being corridor care. So many examples are coming in through my mailbox of our vulnerable elderly adults lying for hours, sometimes outside. It's just not acceptable. So could I have—? I actually submitted a freedom of information that showed that 2,149 people were declared life extinct whilst in an ambulance in the 24 months leading up to December 2025. Will the Cabinet Minister for health or yourself clarify what actions you are actually doing to reduce the waiting times? How are they working with the ambulance trust to ensure that the 45-minute target is now adhered to, rather than what can be often where the paramedic goes home, leaving a patient in an ambulance with a new member of staff coming on, coming back the next morning seeing that same patient? It's unacceptable, and we need urgency on this now.

Heledd Fychan (Plaid Cymru, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

Well, may I thank the Member for raising an issue that is, of course, extremely important? And I would, of course, always encourage the Member, when there are cases that she is aware of, to continue to engage directly with the Minister for health to ensure that the department can respond and are aware of that. You will be aware that the Cabinet Minister for Health and Care has outlined his priorities where there is a determination to tackle this issue, certainly, and there will be further opportunities to raise questions with him directly through questions to him as Minister.

Elwyn Vaughan (Plaid Cymru, Gwynedd Maldwyn)

Once again, during recent days, the residents of Chirk have endured unhealthy odours and serious environmental pollution coming from the direction of the Kronospan factory. Residents point out that when the chemical odours are present, they are followed shortly afterwards by a thick layer of dust that covers everything, which increases concern that it's connected with the output of a tower known as WESP 32. The difficulty is a lack of timely monitoring systems and there is a need for a permanent pollution monitoring system that measures pollution in real time. It is difficult for residents and regulators to prove exactly what kind of pollution is emerging at these times. We therefore need a complete, accurate and timely monitoring system, transparency and assurance that the information is available for all to see. Could I request a statement from the relevant Minister about this situation? Thanks.

Heledd Fychan (Plaid Cymru, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

May I thank the Member for raising this issue and making us aware of the latest position in relation to this? It is extremely important that environmental regulators do use the powers that they have, including ensuring that public health and the environment are protected. It's important that the public continue to report any problems emerging from this site to Natural Resources Wales. You will be aware that there is an investigation by NRW in light of certain problems on this site, and the Cabinet Minister is keeping a very close eye on that, so that that monitoring can happen and that we do ensure that the regulators use the powers available to them.

Claire Archibald (Reform UK, Ceredigion Penfro)

I would be grateful if the education Minister could bring forward a statement on the future of rural village schools in Wales, particularly where local authorities are bringing forward closure proposals, despite strong community concern. In Pembrokeshire, village schools such as Manorbier VC School and Ysgol Clydau are facing closure. When the village school closes, the village does not just lose a building, it loses its heart. Families are drawn away and often the shops, services and community spaces close too.

These schools also provide a very particular kind of education. For some children, especially those with additional learning needs, autism, anxiety and sensory difficulties, this is where they are best able to cope and learn. At a time when children's mental health is declining and more children are struggling and feeling unable to attend school, we should be protecting the small nurturing schools where some children best thrive. The Welsh Government says rural schools should be protected. I therefore ask the education Minister to bring forward a statement setting out whether the current protections for rural village schools are strong enough and what steps the Welsh Government will take to ensure local councils cannot close them without fully providing that every alternative has properly been explored. Thank you.

Heledd Fychan (Plaid Cymru, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

I thank the Member for raising this issue. The Cabinet Minister for Education and the Welsh Language is here and has heard that. Evidently, she does have a statement on her priorities this afternoon, where all Members have the opportunity to raise relevant issues. So, clearly, you have given a forewarning perhaps of something that you will raise, which will help the Minister in terms of her preparation. And, certainly, I would always encourage Members to raise local issues by writing to the Cabinet Ministers.

Natasha Asghar (Conservative, Casnewydd Islwyn)

Business Minister, can I please request a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Care on the all-Wales cardiology and radiology consumable framework for 2027? Concerns have been raised with me, personally, that the proposed procurement approach may give insufficient weight to whole-life value, patient outcomes, clinical input, innovation and sustainability, with significant weighting instead placed upon upfront product costs. By putting more of an onus on cost instead of whole-life value, this runs the risk of costing more in the long term. So, for anyone like me who doesn't have a medical degree, a cheaper replacement heart valve may seem appealing, but could also come at an increased risk of major post-operative implications, significantly higher adverse events and less evidence of durability, which would be worse for the patient and for the system in the short to medium term. Not only will this be beneficial to the public purse, but it is also better for the patient's health and well-being. Given the Welsh Government's commitment to value-based procurement and the potential long-term implications for patient care and NHS Wales costs, can time be made for a statement on how Ministers are ensuring that this framework reflects best value for the NHS in Wales? Thank you.

Heledd Fychan (Plaid Cymru, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

I thank the Member for raising that issue. You will have heard the comments made in relation to procurement earlier by the First Minister, but, clearly, this is a very specific issue that you have raised. Now, because of the nature of your request, I would kindly request that you write to the Cabinet Minister for Health and Care to ensure that you do get as full a response as required, and also, because of the nature of the information that you have, in order to ensure that you do get that response. Clearly, those answers can be available to all Members of the Senedd.

Elfed Williams (Plaid Cymru, Bangor Conwy Môn)

I would like to declare an interest that a member of my family works in the advocacy service. I'd like to request a written statement from the Deputy Minister for social care about the Supreme Court's ruling to significantly narrow the circumstances in which a person who is considered to lack mental capacity is deprived of their liberty. The court's decision means that many individuals living in care homes, supported living arrangements, and other care settings can now fall outside the scope of the protections under article 5, and their voice through an independent mental capacity advocate, if they are considered to be satisfied with their care arrangements.

Along with many within the care sector, I am concerned that the loss of critical external and independent scrutiny will lead to many disabled people losing their human rights and receiving care that runs counter to their needs and wishes. I would therefore like a statement that outlines how the Welsh Government will respond to the Supreme Court's ruling, and how it will ensure that safeguards and a voice through an advocate remain in place for individuals who face fundamental changes to their care provision as a result.

Heledd Fychan (Plaid Cymru, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

May I thank the Member for raising an extremely important issue? The Welsh Government is fully aware of this significant decision, and the Welsh Government is considering the impact it will have on applying the Mental Capacity Act 2005 in Wales. We will continue to work with the UK Government to understand the implications of the judgment in Wales in full, and to ensure consistency in messaging to local health boards and local authorities. There will be an update to the Senedd once we have given full consideration to the implications of this for Wales.

Jane Dodds (Liberal Democrat, Brycheiniog Tawe Nedd)

Good afternoon, Trefnydd.

Jane Dodds (Liberal Democrat, Brycheiniog Tawe Nedd)

Can I request a statement please on NHS dentistry? We have a desperate situation, I know, across Wales, and many people have heard from constituents around not being able to access an NHS dentist.

In my own constituency, including Powys, we know that there are 4,600 adults and 270 children on the dental waiting list in Powys, with the health board actually saying that the numbers of children are rising. And across Wales, we know that NHS dental coverage has fallen from 53 per cent to just 40 per cent today. And for children in Wales, only 48 per cent receive NHS treatment, as opposed to 90 per cent in Scotland. So, somehow, they're getting it right in Scotland.

I'd like to, if possible, ask for a statement to the Senedd on NHS dentistry. We didn't hear that in the Minister's statement, and I know it affects more than just me, but others as well. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Heledd Fychan (Plaid Cymru, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

I thank the Member for raising such an important issue for everyone in this Chamber. And I think it is important to recognise that it is difficult to gain access, and that particularly in rural areas such as Powys, it's even harder. Certainly, the Government is committed—there were specific commitments in our manifesto—to look at the contract in terms of NHS dentistry. You'll be aware that many Members who are part of the Government now had campaigned for opening a new dental hospital in order to tackle the gaps that exist, and then it's about how we ensure consistency across Wales.

Of course, it is a problem in urban areas as well, but there is a specific problem here. And I will certainly ask the Cabinet Minister for Health and Care to ensure that there is an update on dentistry to the Senedd.

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

And finally, Peredur Owen Griffiths.

Peredur Owen Griffiths (Plaid Cymru, Casnewydd Islwyn)

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. Trefnydd, can I ask the Government for a statement on improving fire safety in Wales? I'm particularly interested in the tightening up of safety arrangements for buildings or premises that are occasionally used for events. Concerns have been raised with me, questioning whether these kinds of sites always comply fully with the law. If they don't, of course, this could put the safety of people who attend such events at risk. I would like the Government to consider introducing, through the fire service, a regime of inspections during performances or during events, in order to improve safety and to possibly avoid some of the horrendous incidents that we have seen in other countries in recent years. The previous Government was monitoring the lessons that needed to be learned from the incident in Switzerland. So, I would appreciate a statement to update the Senedd on that work. Thank you.

Heledd Fychan (Plaid Cymru, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

I thank the Member for raising an issue that, of course, is of great importance. We saw, of course—. I'm sure we all remember seeing how horrific that situation was in Switzerland, and how many young people were affected and families' lives changed forever. Certainly, you'll be aware that public buildings and commercial buildings are regulated by very strict fire regulations, which insist that employers and owners take every step possible to reduce risk. Not doing that can be considered a very serious offence. So, certainly, that regulation is there; how it's implemented is what needs to be looked at. I will ensure that we look at what further work needs to be done, and there will be an update. I would also encourage every Member, including the Member who raised this issue, that, if you are aware of any specific issues, I would encourage you to ensure that they are reported, but also that you do make the Cabinet Minister aware of those issues. Thank you.

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Thank you, Trefnydd.

4. Motion under Standing Order 16.1 to agree the titles and remits of committees

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

Item 4, a motion under Standing Order 16.1 to agree the titles and remits of committees. I call on a member of the Business Committee to move the motion formally—Heledd Fychan.

Heledd Fychan (Plaid Cymru, Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr)

Formally.

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? No. The motion is therefore agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Motion under Standing Order 17.2A to allocate committee Chairs to political groups

Kerry Ferguson (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion Penfro)

We will now move to a motion under Standing Order 17.2A to allocate committee chairs to political groups. I call on a member of the Business Committee to move the motion formally—Heledd Fychan.