Senedd Cymru (Welsh Parliament), 5 February 2025

319 contributions from 44 members. The official report.

1. Questions to the Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

Good afternoon and welcome to this afternoon's Plenary meeting. The first item on the agenda is questions to the Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales. The first question is from Janet Finch-Saunders.

Janet Finch-Saunders (Conservative, Aberconwy)

1. Will the Cabinet Secretary provide an update on the progress of the north Wales metro, and how the project is aligning with broader transport and economic development goals for the region? OQ62248

Ken Skates (Labour, Clwyd South)

Sure. The north Wales metro will transform the borderlands railway line, with integrated bus services and the end goal of a direct rail link between Wrexham and Liverpool. And this will complement increased provision of 50 per cent more train services along the north Wales main line from next year.

Janet Finch-Saunders (Conservative, Aberconwy)

Thank you. Members of my committee went along to the south Wales metro, and it's fair to say that it's just so impressive, and I was slightly envious and wanting the same, albeit maybe on a smaller scale, up in the north. We have to remember that the south Wales metro project has ballooned to over £1 billion from £734 million, and there is a disparity at the moment in investment between south Wales and north Wales. This imbalance is not only unfair, but detrimental to the region's economy and connectivity. Improved rail links are essential for boosting tourism, business and our local communities, yet north Wales still continues to struggle with outdated tracks. I've always said, since I came here, we have to shout so much harder on these benches about support for north Wales. Only last week, I had constituents, yet again, highlighting the utter unfairness. Is it not time, Cabinet Secretary, for the Welsh Government now to address this regional disparity, commit to a fair and more balanced approach to rail, and to please give us some scale of timetable as to when we will have a north Wales metro?

Ken Skates (Labour, Clwyd South)

Well, can I thank the Member for the opportunity to highlight what is a very complicated landscape insofar as rail infrastructure outside of the core Valleys line—the south-east Wales metro area—remains in the hands of UK Government? For far too long, it's been neglected by a Tory Government that, I'm afraid, delivered nothing for the north Wales main line or for the borderlands line. Now, in addressing the underinvestment that you rightly point to, we have agreed with UK Government on a pipeline of enhancements to Welsh rail infrastructure, and right at the top of that list are metro north Wales projects—a series of interventions that will do exactly as you wish: to deliver a metro in north Wales with the sort of tap-on, tap-off technology that we're seeing emerge in south Wales and with four trains per hour directly linking places along the Wrexham-Bidston line through to Liverpool. In tandem with that, on a horizontal basis, we're going to be seeing a 50 per cent increase in rail services along the north Wales main line from next year, and that’s because of a very, very early decision by the UK Government to start addressing that underinvestment and to invest in the main line so that we can put more trains on that particular route through Transport for Wales.

In terms of the time frame, it's my intention to bring forward a statement on the north Wales metro, because we've made, I think, fabulous progress since the UK general election, in engaging, not just with UK Ministers, but also with colleagues across the border who will be supporting our bid for funding in order to deliver that four-trains-per-hour metro service in north Wales.

Hannah Blythyn (Labour, Delyn)

Cabinet Secretary, can I start by thanking you for meeting earlier this week with representatives of Hollywell Town Council regarding a new station at Greenfield. I know that you've supported the group previously, and I look forward to working to get plans back on track. But clearly this fits with wider plans for a transport system that properly serves the people of north Wales. I think that talk of metro often brings to mind things like subways and rapid transit, but, for many people in the communities that I serve and you do too, it's all about better buses as well and how they join up, and also seeking smarter, cost-effective solutions to the existing problems on our roads.

I know that you are as familiar as I am with the A55, and whilst we don't want old proposals back on the table nor to see analogue solutions to digital problems—I'm aware that there's both business and citizen support for interventions like a crawler lane near Halkyn—other things that could futureproof the gateway to north Wales also form part of wider transport improvements. So, can I ask is this something that you are talking to partners about? And do you agree that we need integrated and innovative solutions to infrastructure in north Wales to unlock our potential? Diolch.

Ken Skates (Labour, Clwyd South)

Well, can I thank the Member for her question? I'd agree entirely that it's not just rail investment that will lead to the delivery of the metro, it's also bus investment and the delivery of franchising. With regard to the A55, I understand that the crawler lane was paused as part of the roads review work. However, it's vitally important that we give local authorities, through the corporate joint committee in north Wales, the greatest freedom and flexibility to be able to identify priorities. The crawler lane has long been touted as a solution to transport woes across north Wales, because it does create such a bottleneck. So, I'm very keen that we support the corporate joint committee in their work on the regional transport plan, which is currently out for consultation. I'd encourage all Members with an interest in transport in north Wales to provide feedback on what I believe is an outstanding piece of work.

Luke Fletcher (Plaid Cymru, South Wales West)

2. What discussions has the Cabinet Secretary had with local authorities in South Wales West regarding the adequacy of bus services? OQ62262

Ken Skates (Labour, Clwyd South)

Well, I've had numerous discussions with local authorities about bus services, including in South Wales West, where we will begin the roll-out of bus franchising. Last week, I had a very positive meeting with all local authority leaders to discuss our plans for bus reform.

Luke Fletcher (Plaid Cymru, South Wales West)

That is welcome news, of course. Bus services at the moment are in a dire situation. In many parts of my region, some communities are being cut off entirely after 6 p.m. because of a lack of bus services running to their towns. In Cefn Cribwr, they end just after seven o'clock, and, even in Pencoed, some services are finishing just after seven or eight o'clock. Local authorities are really struggling to fund services, and that is why the long-awaited bus Bill is so important to our communities and to many stakeholders. But a podcast called Y Pumed Llawr—I don't know if you've heard that podcast, Cabinet Secretary—does shed a lot of concern, a lot of light and a lot of concern, on the process within Government about delivering this bus Bill. We've been waiting since 2021, and it's become apparent, through some of those interviews, as to why we've been waiting so long. So, what I'm seeking today is a guarantee from the Cabinet Secretary that we'll see this Bill delivered this side of the summer recess—and, when I say 'delivered', I mean tabled—so that we can get on with the important work of actually reforming our bus services.

Ken Skates (Labour, Clwyd South)

Can I thank Luke Fletcher for his question, and for the very important points that he's raised today, which illustrate, I think, how the current model of deregulated bus services has failed the people of Wales and needs to be addressed? When I returned to Government, I declared that this would be my No. 1 priority. I'm pleased to say that I will be introducing it in March, and our hope is that we will receive Royal Assent in January of next year, ready for the franchise process to begin in earnest.

Altaf Hussain (Conservative, South Wales West)

Cabinet Secretary, our constituents depend on bus services not only to get to work, important health appointments and buy food, but they also provide a vital link to important leisure destinations. Regrettably, an absolute lack of public transport to Ton Kenfig and Maudlam has prevented people accessing the Kenfig nature reserve in my region. What actions are the Government taking to ensure everyone can conveniently and affordably access national nature reserves like the excellent Kenfig nature reserve in our region?

Ken Skates (Labour, Clwyd South)

Can I thank Altaf Hussain for his question? Public transport plays a vital role in ensuring that people aren't isolated and, therefore, it's a major contributor to well-being as well. You pointed out one particular example of a place that people frequent in order to feel better about life. So, through franchising, what we're going to be able to do is identify routes, such as the ones that you've outlined today, and timetables that serve passenger needs, because the current model means that commercial operations will take place on the basis of bus companies' decisions, but then all other routes have to be subsidised. And in an age of austerity, that is incredibly stretching for local authorities. So, the franchising process will ensure that we've got timetables and routes that meet the needs of passengers, and which, importantly, as well are integrated with rail services. Our aspiration is to have an integrated ticket between rail and buses, potentially, within five years, through franchising, and through the technology that's emerging, right across Wales.

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

Questions now from the party spokespeople. The Conservatives' spokesperson, Gareth Davies.

Gareth Davies (Conservative, Vale of Clwyd)

Diolch, Llywydd. Firstly, I'd like to raise value for money on Transport for Wales's services in north Wales and delays to the introduction of new rolling stock. Despite the improvements in punctuality made by TfW last year, they are still significantly short of what they should be. In north Wales, punctuality is poor, overcrowding is common, and customer satisfaction is low. Every train station in Flintshire is rated amongst the worst 500 in the UK for service reliability and punctuality, with one exception in Pen-y-ffordd. In data published last week, Hawarden station ranked two thousand, four hundred and fourty-fifth in the UK, with 83 per cent of services arriving late, and, over the last three months, just 2 per cent of services to Hawarden were on time. So, it’s clear that the bar needs to be raised, Cabinet Secretary.

There has also been a slow introduction of new rolling stock on many lines across the network, which has been a consistent bugbear for years. To take the class 756 trains for example, they were ordered back in 2019 by Keolis Amey, before Welsh Government nationalisation, but were only introduced to the line in November 2024. My colleague Russell George was also told that the new rolling stock on the Cambrian line had been delayed yet again to the end of this year, despite being promised back in 2023. So, can the Cabinet Secretary outline how he is working with TfW to hold them accountable for punctuality on the north Wales services, and can he provide further clarity as to why there are still delays to the introduction of new rolling stock, and what the consequences of this are financially? Thank you.

Ken Skates (Labour, Clwyd South)

Well, can I thank the Member for his questions? First of all, around about 44 per cent of delays and lost minutes are attributed to Network Rail issues—issues with the infrastructure—and that’s because of the lack of investment that’s taken place over far too long. Now, I would agree that, in 2023, performance was not where we would wish it to be. In 2024, we did see a remarkable improvement. We saw customer satisfaction improve by around 16 per cent. We now see, in the latest period, punctuality is at 79 per cent—79 per cent of trains are on time. And we’ve seen a 12 per cent increase in passenger journeys. So, it’s heading in the right direction, but there is always room for improvement, I would agree. And that’s why I hold very regular scrutiny sessions with the chair and the chief executive of Transport for Wales, to ensure that we’re getting best possible value for money from our investment.

Now, I should say, as well, that, back in 2018, when we inherited Arriva Trains Wales’s stock of trains, we inherited one of the oldest in Britain, and just 270 trains. By the end of next year, we’ll have one of the newest fleets of trains, in excess of 480. That’s an incredible uplift that will enable us to provide more capacity right across Wales, including in north Wales.

Now, there is one other important point that I’d like to raise in response to the first question the Member has asked today, and that is that the December timetable change is already making quite significant improvement in terms of punctuality and reliability. And we’ve been able, through the timetable change, to ensure that we get more trains where there is greatest demand. I know that that’s led to some very difficult decisions in other areas, but it has meant that, for example, on the popular Marches line, and on the north-to-south service as a whole, we’re seeing more five-carriage trains being introduced. And that’s what we’re going to see more of as we get more trains delivered. Yes, there have been delays, and that’s regrettable, but we’re making sure that pressure is applied to the manufacturers to deliver them as soon as possible.

Gareth Davies (Conservative, Vale of Clwyd)

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. I note that, earlier in your response, you said that there was a lack of investment from Network Rail, but this is nothing new. This goes back to 1966—the people of north Wales have been waiting for electrification of the line, and we’ve seen investment—significant investment—in our railway lines across the UK, in terms of the TransPennine Express, HS2, and the Oxford-to-Cambridge line, and some of those being announced by Rachel Reeves. And, previously, Rishi Sunak, before the general election, promised to spend £1 billion on the electrification of the north Wales line. So, can you outline how you’re prioritising transport infrastructure in the north and clarify what representations you are making to the UK Government, with your party colleagues now, in respect of rail infrastructure in north Wales, which is significantly lagging behind other areas that have been the priority of the Chancellor of the Exchequer quite recently?

Ken Skates (Labour, Clwyd South)

Well, the announcement by Rishi Sunak very shortly before the UK general election came as quite a shock to not just us, because we hadn’t been engaged in the process of determining that particular announcement and the figures around it, but it came as a shock to the Department for Transport itself and to Network Rail, who were never asked to actually commence any work on it. I rather fear that that promise was made as a panic response to the polls that were being published at the time that showed that there’d be a landslide defeat, which eventually occurred. I think, based on his announcement, it probably is more likely that you’d be able to land on the moon in a bathtub than see electrification delivered under the Tories with their false promise.

Instead, what we have got is an agreed pipeline, through the Wales rail board, of enhancements to north Wales. It forms the top of the list of enhancements. And that comprises of north Wales main line improvements, which are starting this year—they’re starting this year; it includes the borderlands line to deliver the metro services that Janet Finch-Saunders has kindly asked for and which we will deliver; it also includes upgrades to stations and includes new stations; and, crucially, it includes resolving the capacity challenges at Chester, because that’s preventing us from running more services in and out of north Wales. That’s the list; it’s been agreed by the DfT, and now we’re going to deliver it.

Gareth Davies (Conservative, Vale of Clwyd)

You say that Rishi Sunak’s announcement about the £1 billion investment into the electrification came as a shock, but that was the Prime Minister at the time. Network Rail and other associated companies work under the directorship of the UK Government and indeed the Prime Minister. So, it comes as a shock to me and a shock to many people that that would be received as shock from those in the sector, because they should be reacting to those announcements and making the best of those to ensure that these things are actually delivered and brought over the line.

But finally, I’d just like to raise the issue of funding for safety adaptations on rural roads in north Wales. The law firm JMW compiled a list of the most dangerous roads in Britain, of which the A496, Snowdonia’s mountainous passage, came in at No. 2. Despite having some of the most scenic highways in the UK, we also have a lot of windy and dangerous rural roads. With so much emphasis placed by the Welsh Government on urban roads, I think rural road safety has been somewhat neglected.

The stretch of the B5119 between Rhyl and Dyserth, known as the 'dizzy bends', is also notoriously dangerous, with frequent traffic collisions, yet sadly we hear from campaigners that, despite the high frequency of collisions and near misses on rural roads, nothing is done to remedy the issue until a fatality occurs, sadly, as we tragically saw this week on the A534 near the Holt Lodge in Wrexham.

So, can the Cabinet Secretary outline how the Welsh Government is ensuring that local authorities have improved accessibility to funding to implement road safety improvements on notorious highways to prevent fatal collisions? Thank you.

Ken Skates (Labour, Clwyd South)

Can I thank you for that question? It is incredibly important that we prioritise safety when we’re considering investment in our roads. From the financial year 2026-27 onwards, we’ll be devolving responsibility and decision making on how to spend local transport funds to local authorities through the CJCs, so that they’ll be able to prioritise road safety spending in the way that you’ve outlined. I think that should be welcomed. It’s long been asked for by local authorities for the purpose that you’ve outlined, and we’re going to be delivering on it.

Just with regard to electrification of the north Wales main line, I was shocked that it was so little, it was so late, and it came as an announcement that not even the DfT seemed to be aware of. So, it really was not an honest pledge, I’m afraid.

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Peredur Owen Griffiths.

Peredur Owen Griffiths (Plaid Cymru, South Wales East)

Diolch, Llywydd. Prynhawn da, Cabinet Secretary. In 2022 a report by Sustrans found that half of all rail stations in Wales were not fully accessible to disabled people, with 34 per cent having no access for wheelchair users at all. Three years later, I feel that too little has changed. Across Wales, too many disabled people continue to face unacceptable barriers to mobility and independence. We know this is a real and urgent issue. Just recently, a constituent shared with me the distressing experience of taking their disabled father to Newport station for a day trip to Cardiff only to cancel their plans because the station’s inaccessibility made the journey too distressing. Furthermore, the Pontypool and New Inn train station had its extension completed over a year ago now, but it’s still closed, meaning there is no access to the platform for people with mobility issues, and no extra parking. It’s not just an inconvenience, it’s exclusion. Poor station accessibility is cutting people off from public transport, limiting their access to work, education, healthcare and social opportunities. It is deepening social isolation and inequality, running counter to our legal and ethical commitments under the Equality Act 2010. This issue also affects older people, parents with pushchairs and others with mobility challenges. What is the Welsh Government doing to monitor these issues, and what is the data telling you about a course of action to alleviate them?

Ken Skates (Labour, Clwyd South)

Can I thank the Member for his questions and for his focus today on the need for greater inclusive transport in Wales, and inclusive movement? Some Members will be aware that this is now a particular focus of the Welsh Government, and I gave evidence to your colleague Llyr Huws Gruffydd's committee recently, where I said that we're shifting the focus to inclusive movement. That means that we're going to be placing a greater emphasis on utilising active travel funding for real improvements on the ground, rather than for bureaucratic purposes and administrative purposes. So, we've required local authorities in the coming year to utilise 60 per cent as a minimum of their funding for delivery on the ground to drive inclusive movement—to make sure that pavements are fixed, to make sure that there are dropped kerbs in places as wide as possible, to make sure that there's tactile paving used, to make sure that there are seats that people can access.

I regularly meet with the access and inclusion panel of TfW, and I invited the committee to meet with the panel. The panel have already embraced that opportunity, so I'm hoping that committee members will join the panel very soon. And I do not intend to let up on this particular agenda. It's vital—vital—that transport is accessible to all and that we've got the infrastructure in place in our towns, in our villages, in rural areas, to enable people, regardless of the disabling barriers that they face day in, day out, to access public transport and to be able to move around safely and freely.

Peredur Owen Griffiths (Plaid Cymru, South Wales East)

Thank you for that answer. I'd be interested in any data that you could share, because it would be interesting to understand that. But even when the station is fully accessible, that still doesn't guarantee that a disabled person will actually be able to travel. I was recently made aware of a deeply frustrating incident involving a disabled passenger at Cardiff Queen Street station. She was waiting to board a train to Caerphilly when the conductor told her she couldn't get on because there was already a wheelchair user on board. To make matters worse, she was then informed that the next train might also have a wheelchair user on it, meaning that she would have to wait for the third train, which had two designated wheelchair spaces. This is just unacceptable. This happened in January, leaving a women with her young daughter standing in the cold for 30 minutes just because the train service was not designed to accommodate more than one wheelchair user at a time. So, what would have been your expectation of what should have happened in that situation, Cabinet Secretary? How many of Transport for Wales's brand-new fleet currently in operation that can carry more than one wheelchair user? It's not enough just to make the stations accessible, but the trains need to be accessible as well.

Ken Skates (Labour, Clwyd South)

That's a very timely question, because I've asked the disability champion within Welsh Government—or the person who was a disability champion within Welsh Government—to assist in this very area. He himself has recently outlined to me the challenges that are faced by people who wheel where there is a lack of capacity, so I've asked Transport for Wales to provide the data that you point to. My view is that that should not happen. That should not happen anywhere or at any time. Everybody should be able to access public transport, and our trains in particular, when they wish to.

Now, you make a very good point about the lack of access for all at our railway stations across Wales. We bid to UK Government for Access for All funding, but there are still far too many stations that are not fully accessible for people who face disabling barriers. That's why we're asking TfW to assess whether we can make improvements to stations in Wales, jointly with Network Rail—or, as it may be very soon, Great British Railways—because it's gone on for too long and people should be able to expect ease of access to trains.

Now, in the area of infrastructure that we've got full responsibility for—the core Valleys lines—huge improvements have been made with step-free access onto the trains, and we've utilised the expertise and the lived experience of the access and inclusion panel to design better stations, to design the infrastructure that enables people to travel. But on that very example that you've raised, I'd welcome more detail on it, and I will personally raise it with Transport for Wales, because that shouldn't happen. There are dedicated members of staff who should be able to assist people with requirements such as those that you've outlined, and they should be able to guarantee that people are able to move as swiftly as possible and not left waiting for multiple trains.

Peredur Owen Griffiths (Plaid Cymru, South Wales East)

Thank you, and thank you for your commitment there to look into it further. That's particularly heartening.

Finally, I wanted to touch on accessibility in travel a bit more broadly. The roll-out of pay-as-you-go travel across several stations in south Wales is a welcome step forward. Pay as you go improves accessibility by simplifying ticketing, reducing physical barriers, enabling flexible travel, capping fares to support affordability and ensuring a seamless, inclusive transport experience. I'm sure you agree with all of that. However, I've been made aware of a recurring issue: that many passengers are unclear about whether their destination station supports pay as you go. This confusion has led to people being charged twice for their journey when they cannot tap out at their destination station, and then having to go through the hassle of requesting a refund. This raises important questions about the phased roll-out of this scheme. Can it ever work as a phased roll-out or should it have been introduced as national from day one, or everything all at once? When will we be able to expect the pay-as-you-go service to be available across the entire network? I hope you agree that a modern accessible transport system should be seamless and easy for everybody to use.

Ken Skates (Labour, Clwyd South)

Can I thank you for your final questions this afternoon? The actual technology that's used for this particular service is quite advanced, but I'm afraid the sort of challenge that is faced on the basis of what you've outlined today comes down to communication—making sure that people are aware of the stations that do have tap-out and tap-in facilities and those that do not. I'll raise that very point with Transport for Wales.

In terms of our long-term objective, we wish to see tap-in, tap-out technology utilised not just at all of our railway stations, but also on the bus network. So, we're looking at how we can implement it in a way that runs parallel with the franchising process. Ideally within the next five years we would wish to see tap-in, tap-out technology utilised across the entire public transport network with that single integrated ticket alongside the single integrated network.

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

Question 3, Sam Rowlands.

Sam Rowlands (Conservative, North Wales)

3. Will the Cabinet Secretary provide an update on progress towards improving the Wrexham to Bidston rail line? OQ62246

Ken Skates (Labour, Clwyd South)

Yes, absolutely. The new UK Government has recognised that rail infrastructure in Wales has been underfunded for too long. We are working in partnership with them on a pipeline of rail enhancement priorities identified by the Wales rail board. This thankfully includes improvements to the Wrexham-Bidston line.

Sam Rowlands (Conservative, North Wales)

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. I appreciate the response. You will know that, for north Wales, links with the north-west of England are vital and run deep and are really important for the economy of north-east Wales in particular. I was pleased to be able to raise in the Chamber yesterday with the First Minister the importance of those continued opportunities with north-east Wales and north-west England, and I was pleased with her response, in that she said we should embrace the economic links between England and Wales, and indeed the other many links that bind us together. I wonder if you could expand on your opening remarks to describe some of those conversations you're having with Merseyrail in particular to understand the opportunities for connections beyond Bidston into the Mersey area, and any other opportunities you see that could take place to ensure that people have that ease of access into north-east Wales.

Ken Skates (Labour, Clwyd South)

Can I thank Sam Rowlands for his question and his keen interest in this particular development? The BBC's Vaughan Roderick interviewed TfW's chief executive officer James Price over the weekend, and they discussed this very project and the need to create direct, four-train-per-hour links between Wrexham, Wales's newest city, and Liverpool, one of the greatest cities in England. There are strong cultural and historic links between north Wales and Liverpool, and Liverpool, of course, has one of the two north-west airports that are frequently used by citizens travelling abroad, and so creating better, more direct services is vitally important. That's recognised within the Mersey area, not just by the city council and the various members there and the leader, who I have to say have been phenomenal allies in arguing for enhancements to that particular line, but also by the city region mayor as well.

Carolyn Thomas (Labour, North Wales)

I believe we're now calling it the Wrexham to Liverpool line rather than the Wrexham to Bidston. Feedback is that the extra timetabling of three journeys per hour is really welcome, and I'd just like to ask you—there were issues with freight on the line at Padeswood, so, as part of the upcoming spending review, we're hoping to get that freight off so we can increase passenger journeys up to that four journeys per hour. And also, again, what conversations are you having with Steve Rotheram, the mayor of Liverpool, so you can do a combined effort to get money in that spending review for that Liverpool to Wrexham line? Thank you.

Ken Skates (Labour, Clwyd South)

Can I thank you for your question? It's a superb question because the work that's required at Padeswood is actually the first element of the Wrexham to Liverpool upgrade programme, and we are hopeful that we will be able to see actual physical work under way in the next couple of years at that particular site, which, as you say, will then enable us to increase frequency quite substantially on the line as we move towards four trains per hour. And Steve Rotheram, the metro mayor for Liverpool, is an incredible supporter of the project. He has offered to support our call for funding through the comprehensive spending review. He's a keen Liverpool FC fan; as an Evertonian I'll forgive him that, because he is an outstanding—an outstanding—ally of ours.

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

Question 4, Peredur Owen Griffiths.

Peredur Owen Griffiths (Plaid Cymru, South Wales East)

Hello again, Cabinet Secretary.

Peredur Owen Griffiths (Plaid Cymru, South Wales East)

4. What is the Government doing to promote active travel in South Wales East? OQ62270

Ken Skates (Labour, Clwyd South)

We're supporting local authorities and partners in South Wales East to deliver active travel infrastructure and initiatives. Through Transport for Wales, we're providing support and resources to help local authorities promote safe walking, wheeling and cycling.

Peredur Owen Griffiths (Plaid Cymru, South Wales East)

Thank you for that response.

Peredur Owen Griffiths (Plaid Cymru, South Wales East)

You've touched on some of this this afternoon already, but it's been over a decade since Wales has had the Active Travel (Wales) Act 2013. One of the primary aspects of the legislation is a duty placed on Government and councils to continuously improve active travel provision through securing new and improved active travel routes and related facilities. Despite the then Deputy Minister saying, just under two years ago, that the Government was planning to ramp up spending in the years to come, people working to promote cycling are seriously concerned about the merger of regional transport with active travel in the budget line. Gwenda Owen, Cycling UK's Wales advocacy and development lead, has said:

'Without clear government commitment, Wales risks undermining its pioneering achievements in walking and cycling.'

Minister, what's the rationale for merging these budgets, and can you also provide the clarity and the commitment on active travel financing that groups like Cycling UK and Sustrans have been calling for since the publication of the budget?

Ken Skates (Labour, Clwyd South)

Can I thank you for your question and the opportunity to respond to, I think, some unfounded anxiety? I've already outlined how we are moving our focus to inclusive movement, inclusive travel. That means that we're placing, first and foremost, walking and wheeling that is accessible to all at the forefront of our considerations, but also the continued role that promoting cycling has, not just for the purpose of modal shift to reduce carbon emissions, but also for our health and well-being.

Now, in terms of funding, we're holding steady, we're holding firm our funding for active travel this year, but the reason that we're devolving responsibility and decision making to the regions from 2026-27 is because we firmly believe that local authorities know best what their communities require in terms of infrastructure and in terms of services. And it's absolutely right, as we ask local authorities to work at a regional level, that we offer them the support and we empower them to make those decisions at a regional level. That includes having the financial resource available without strings attached.

Conversely, some might argue that, perhaps, we should not devolve all of the decision making, just devolve the funding. I don't think that washes at all. I don't think that would be fair. I don't think that would be appropriate. We have to make sure that local authorities can deliver against the regional transport plans that they've worked so hard on. The draft regional transport plan that's already been published in north Wales is outstanding; it identifies the priorities that I think the vast majority of the public would support. And indeed, the public now have a say. The public have a say through to mid April on the regional transport plan, and they'll be able to choose what priorities are invested in, and I think that's right. I may sound like Citizen Smith, but it's people power; that's the reason.

Natasha Asghar (Conservative, South Wales East)

Cabinet Secretary, you'll be well aware of plans to develop a new active travel route stretching from Usk to Pontypool, and I've raised it with you on a number of occasions here in the Chamber. The project does indeed have cross-party support and is backed by the community, it would provide a safe walking and also cycle route, connecting people with important facilities along the way, such as schools and employment sites. Transport for Wales is currently looking into this project, and there are a few little challenges that need to be addressed, but I'm confident that they will indeed be overcome. I'm also confident this proposal can be delivered and bring some real benefits to the area as a whole. Last week, my office met with the team behind the project, alongside other elected officials, to receive an update and talk about next steps. We're really keen to get you there, Cabinet Secretary, so you can have a first-hand look at the scheme. And, Cabinet Secretary, can I please implore you to take a look at your diary, when you leave this Chamber, and fix a date for this visit? And Presiding Officer, on the record, I'll even throw in a Welsh cake and a cup of tea on me, not the taxpayer. So, thank you very much, Presiding Officer.

Ken Skates (Labour, Clwyd South)

Thank you. It would be a pleasure to join you. In fact, I'll bring my bike so that I can cycle part of it. I can't fit it in a ministerial car, so I'll probably have to cycle down or use the train to bring the bike, but I will join you. My understanding is that that particular project could be very, very valuable in terms of driving tourism as well in the area, and not just for the purpose of commuting and encouraging people to get out of their cars when they can commute by bike. So, it sounds a very promising project. Transport for Wales are looking into it; I'm aware of that. But, no, I'd be very happy to join the Member at one part of it for a ride.

Mabon ap Gwynfor (Plaid Cymru, Dwyfor Meirionnydd)

5. What assessment has the Cabinet Secretary made of the impact of the new Cambrian line timetable on local residents? OQ62241

Ken Skates (Labour, Clwyd South)

Transport for Wales rail services were more reliable than all other operators in Wales last year. Service performance has improved further with the introduction of the new timetable in December, including on the Cambrian line.

Mabon ap Gwynfor (Plaid Cymru, Dwyfor Meirionnydd)

Thanks for the response. The Cabinet Secretary will be aware of my concerns that the changes to the Cambrian line timetable following previous questions and engagements on the issue. It was great to hear earlier answers on improvements to the south and the north Wales lines, but that's of scant consolation to the people along the Cambrian line. The changes that have come into force are proving to be extremely detrimental to my constituents, people who can't travel to work, can't go shopping or to see their family and friends, and, essentially, pushing people into more expensive and environmentally damaging car use. The changes were justified at the time based on low passenger use, something the Cabinet Secretary himself said in a previous answer to me. But surely the Cabinet Secretary knows that, for most of the last 10 years, the line has been disrupted, from the reconstruction of Pont Briwet 10 years ago, a five-months closure because of weather, winter closures due to Barmouth bridge redevelopment, COVID and other impacts. So, you'll understand why I and my electors doubt the case that has been put forward. We need to see a line that answers the needs of the residents. So, do you accept that the changes have been detrimental, and will you commit to ensure that a more regular train service is reinstated on the Cambrian line?

Ken Skates (Labour, Clwyd South)

Well, can I thank the Member for his question? Difficult decisions were made, as I mentioned earlier, regarding utilisation of rolling stock across Wales. I was pleased, though, that Transport for Wales did engage with passengers, and they amended some of their proposals as a result of that feedback that they received. The December timetable change has led to improved frequency—sorry, improved punctuality—and performance, and it's my hope that, as a result of that, we'll also see an increase in the number of people using that particular line. If we can drive up patronage, that surely helps the argument for increasing service provision, and so we will be assessing the impact that it's had on communities and of further timetable changes. Once we get more trains delivered and we see that huge increase to 483 trains achieved, then we, hopefully, will be able to reinstate more services. But it is finite, the resource that's available to us. Transport for Wales have had a very, very difficult task, I'm afraid, in recent times in determining which services can be maintained against a very, very bleak financial outlook. We've had a much better settlement, obviously, from the UK Government now, so I am hopeful that, in future years, as we see greater investment, but also as we see the farebox increase, we will see more services across Wales.

Jane Dodds (Liberal Democrat, Mid and West Wales)

Good afternoon, Cabinet Secretary.

Jane Dodds (Liberal Democrat, Mid and West Wales)

Thank you very much to Mabon for asking this question.

Jane Dodds (Liberal Democrat, Mid and West Wales)

Yes, it is really concerning, isn't it, that we've had these cuts to the Cambrian line. For example, the early morning Machynlleth to Barmouth return service has been removed. I myself, when I lived in Welshpool, had the same experience in terms of not being able to get to work. When I went for my usual 6.30 a.m. train, it had been cancelled, and the next one was at 9.00 a.m. The Welsh Government have been promising an hourly service on the Cambrian line for over 10 years now, and, still, residents along that line, many of whom use it for work and for things like shopping and attending appointments, they actually rely on it. So, I wonder if we can press you, or at least press you for a date when there will be confirmation about when the new hourly service will be introduced. Because I think information to residents is what we need here, and the earlier that they know, the better, when that line will actually be running at the service level that’s expected. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Ken Skates (Labour, Clwyd South)

Can I thank Jane Dodds for her question? As I’ve already said, it was a very, very difficult decision for Transport for Wales to make, but they did consult with user groups and passengers. And whilst the 05:07 Machynlleth to Barmouth service was removed and the 06:45 Barmouth to Machynlleth service, they did retain the 08:52 Machynlleth to Pwllheli service and the 11:37 Pwllheli to Machynlleth service. So, they were listening and they did act on what they heard.

New trains are going to be introduced this year. They’ll be more comfortable, they’ll be more reliable, and, from May of this year, a year-round 16:30 service will be introduced between Aberystwyth and Shrewsbury. TfW are aiming to introduce an hourly service on this route during the summer months from May of next year.

Paul Davies (Conservative, Preseli Pembrokeshire)

6. Will the Cabinet Secretary make a statement on road maintenance projects in Preseli Pembrokeshire? OQ62233

Ken Skates (Labour, Clwyd South)

Yes. Fixing our roads is one of the Welsh Government’s top priorities and I've established a £25 million dedicated fund in 2025-26 solely for repairing the strategic road network to ensure our communities are safely connected.

Paul Davies (Conservative, Preseli Pembrokeshire)

Cabinet Secretary, as you're aware from my correspondence to you, the closure of the A487 in Newport in my constituency is having a real impact on local businesses in the area. One business has said that the road closure is costing them hundreds of pounds a week and another business has expressed concerns that they believe the closure could actually be extended, and that, of course, if it were to happen, would hurt businesses even more. Given the extensive of period of time that the A487 is closed for, will the Welsh Government now look to provide some financial support to those businesses that are suffering specifically because of this road closure?

Ken Skates (Labour, Clwyd South)

There are certain instances where compensation can be offered to businesses, but, in the case of disruption, it's normally business insurance for disruption that should apply. If businesses don't have interruption insurance, that's something that perhaps they should engage Business Wales over. Business Wales can offer comprehensive advice on how to protect businesses during emerging crises and incidents such as road closures. I can say, though, with regard to the A487, that good progress has been made. It was scheduled to end on 5 March, but I'm pleased that it's going to end on 28 February. From 28 February onwards, there will be the use of two-way lights and night-time closures to complete the work. So, we've been able to bring forward the point at which we're able to reopen the road and instead have night-time working in place and two-way traffic.

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Carmarthen East and Dinefwr)

7. Will the Cabinet Secretary provide an update on restoring the Amman Valley railway line as a passenger line? OQ62255

Ken Skates (Labour, Clwyd South)

There are no current plans to restore passenger services on the Amman valley railway line, but we are working with Transport for Wales to improve rail, bus and active travel into a new integrated transport system in the Member's constituency as part of the Swansea bay and west Wales metro.

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Carmarthen East and Dinefwr)

The valleys of South Wales Central have seen investment of over £1 billion over the past few years. The Ebbw valley in the east has seen investment of over £160 million in reopening the railway there. When we look at the valleys of the west—which includes the Amman valley, of course—which extend from the Llynfi valley to the Gwendraeth valley, which includes almost 300,000 people, we see have seen nothing—nothing. Is it not time now, Cabinet Secretary, to see that investment? You are going to receive £400 million, almost, of Barnett consequentials as a result of the investment in the new railway line between Cambridge and Oxford; that investment would transform the situation in terms of railway lines in the west. So, can we have a meeting to discuss our plan for the railways in west Wales, so that we can receive fair play for those valleys in the west that haven't seen that fair play hitherto?

Ken Skates (Labour, Clwyd South)

Can I thank the Member for his question? Absolutely. I'd be very pleased to have a meeting to discuss what will be the medium- to long-term aspirations, I'd imagine, of himself and the people that he'll bring as part of a delegation. The reason that projects that have been agreed by the Wales rail board have been prioritised in the way that they have been is because of how worked up the particular projects are.

A huge amount of time, over many years, has gone into the projects around the north Wales metro, and also the South East Wales Transport Commission’s recommendations. That’s why they are at the top of the priority list. But that hasn’t stopped both Transport for Wales and the region, through the corporate joint committee, planning longer term interventions.

The regional transport plan, I believe, is due to be published for consultation in a matter of days’ time. I think it's really important that the sort of priority project that you have outlined, that you are able to impress upon the people who have designed that regional transport plan just how important it is that it is incorporated into it. So, at the point of consultation, I would urge you and your constituents to make representations.

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

And finally, question 8, Llyr Gruffydd.

Llyr Gruffydd (Plaid Cymru, North Wales)

8. What discussions has the Cabinet Secretary had with the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care regarding the current state of NHS dental provision in North Wales? OQ62263

Ken Skates (Labour, Clwyd South)

I met with the Cabinet Secretary before Christmas to discuss the challenges with NHS dentistry in north Wales. I was assured that the board is focused on this issue and is making progress with increasing service provision across the region.

Llyr Gruffydd (Plaid Cymru, North Wales)

Last October, of course, we heard that Dant y Coed dental surgery in Coedpoeth near Wrexham was handing back its NHS contract, forcing 12,000 patients to rely on private dental care. Now, when I challenged you on this at the time, here in the Siambr, you said that you could assure people in the county borough of Wrexham that there were 11 practices that provide NHS provision. Of course, what you failed to point out was that none of those are actively taking on new patients—not a single one. All of them have frozen out all new NHS patients. Since then, of course, a further three dental practices have handed back their NHS contracts in north Wales, and that’s just in the first month of this year.

So, could you explain to the 12,000 patients in Wrexham, and the additional 3,000 patients elsewhere in north Wales, who have recently lost their NHS provision—? That’s 15,000 patients scrambling around to find NHS provision in north Wales. Can you tell them where exactly they are meant to be looking?

Ken Skates (Labour, Clwyd South)

Well, after the Member's last question, there was some mischief in the press release that was issued by his office. First of all, we are absolutely committed to reforming the NHS dental contract, around the principles of prevention, risk, need and access.

Over a 13-month period, officials have been engaged in pretty intensive negotiations to deliver a new model of dentistry that is attractive to dentists and also fair to patients. With negotiations for the new contract now concluded, we are moving into a consultation phase, where details of the proposed new arrangements will be set out by the Minister this spring.

Now, my understanding is that, in the meantime, practices have been allowed to have a variation to their UDA contract on a risk and need basis. These arrangements include a requirement to take on new patients. With over 430,000 already having received a full course of treatment since April 2022, my understanding is that it is 82,000 in north Wales.

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary.

2. Questions to the Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Trefnydd and Chief Whip

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

We'll next move to questions to the Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, and the first question is from Mabon ap Gwynfor.

Mabon ap Gwynfor (Plaid Cymru, Dwyfor Meirionnydd)

1. Will the Cabinet Secretary provide an update on the effectiveness of the Spectrum project in tackling violence against women, domestic abuse and sexual violence? OQ62242

Jane Hutt (Labour, Vale of Glamorgan)

Thank you very much for your question. To date, over 30,000 pupils have engaged with the project since 2023. From April 2025, Spectrum will deliver a healthy relationships session to every child in years 2, 6 and 10 in Wales. They will also be developing a peer mentor scheme for older pupils.

Mabon ap Gwynfor (Plaid Cymru, Dwyfor Meirionnydd)

Thank you very much for that response, Cabinet Secretary. Spectrum, of course, is a very important programme, as it provides lessons on violence against women, domestic abuse and sexual violence for children and young people, and it's good that schools can participate in that scheme and learn from it. Unfortunately, I'm given to understand that the number of schools in Gwynedd and Anglesey that are part of the scheme is very low, and although there's been no thorough analysis of why that is the case, the belief is that it relates to the fact that there's only one official working on the project in north Wales that can speak Welsh. The Cabinet Secretary will appreciate the importance of the Welsh language in working with schools that operate through the medium of Welsh in Gwynedd and Anglesey. So, will the Cabinet Secretary look into this issue and ensure that the project can work fully with all schools in north Wales?

Jane Hutt (Labour, Vale of Glamorgan)

Thank you, Mabon. It's very important for Spectrum to discuss Welsh-medium lessons.

Jane Hutt (Labour, Vale of Glamorgan)

On the Spectrum Project there's very positive feedback from the schools and educational settings that have undertaken sessions, but, in fact, we are working closely with Spectrum to review their delivery model, to ensure that, in future, every child in Wales in primary and secondary education can receive at least one session of health relationships work through their relationships and sex education curriculum. But I will take this forward, in terms of the importance of making sure that there are Welsh speakers delivering Spectrum in our schools in Wales.

Gareth Davies (Conservative, Vale of Clwyd)

I'm grateful for the opportunity to raise the scourge of sexual violence in north Wales during Sexual Abuse and Sexual Violence Awareness Week, and I'm keen to understand how the Welsh Government is assessing the success of educational programmes to curb these offences. The number of reported sexual assault offences in north Wales increased from 2,446 in 2023 to 2,558 offences in 2024. So, in the area of sexual offences, the numbers are actually increasing and are quite shocking, and across the policing area covered by North Wales Police, only 4 per cent of sexual assault complaints resulted in a charge or summons.

So, whilst early education on healthy relationships is essential, sexual offences, like all crimes, will increase if the offenders recognise that there's a very low probability of being arrested and charged for the offence. Even within schools, almost a third of 16 to 18-year-old girls in the UK said that they'd been subjected to unwanted touching at school, which shows the problem is endemic, despite education on the topic. And despite being a reserved matter, the Welsh Government still has a role to educate victims on how to report sexual crimes and provide support to victims to ensure a higher conviction rate.

So, can the Cabinet Secretary outline how the Welsh Government is responding to disappointing results from anti-sexual-violence and healthy relationships education, and how they are considering changing education in a way that empowers the victims to ensure convictions? Diolch.

Jane Hutt (Labour, Vale of Glamorgan)

Diolch yn fawr. Thank you also for highlighting the fact that this week is Sexual Abuse and Sexual Violence Awareness Week, and thank you for your continuing championing of that, and for giving those statistics today, which are very concerning in terms of the crime and justice issues that you highlight in north Wales. Just on the matter of crime and justice on this issue, we have very strong working relationships with policing in Wales, particularly in north Wales, indeed, with the police and crime commissioners, and of course you have a chief constable, Amanda Blakeman, who is very powerful in leading on these issues.

But you're right to link this to education, and education at every level. We've just talked about Spectrum. What's really important is that Spectrum is not just undertaking their work with pupils, but they're also providing additional training to teachers, at teacher training days, parent and governor meetings, and they have close working relationships with education settings as well. As I've said, we are looking particularly at how we can improve the delivery, extend Spectrum, but also, I think, importantly, the work that we do with the Sound campaign, which helps to provide young men and boys with positive role models, which I know you have recognised, and increasing our funding for all violence against women, domestic abuse and sexual violence projects for 2025-26, but it is clear that this has to be underpinned by our work in encouraging and developing relationships and sexuality education as a statutory requirement in our schools, and mandatory for all learners. Of course, that impacts on all aspects of life in society.

Joyce Watson (Labour, Mid and West Wales)

Cabinet Secretary, I've seen at first-hand some of the positive messages pupils have taken away with regard to learning about healthy relationships in school. And, for many, many years, I've worked also with schools, inviting the young people, the pupils, to come up with their own ideas and their own thoughts about what positive relationships look like, under the respect agenda. And I think, in a fast-moving environment where young people access material in many different formats, it's more important now than ever that we help them understand what a good relationship looks like, and also how to protect themselves from outside influences beyond their control. So, would you agree with me that projects like the Spectrum Project, and also others, are essential now and critical in helping to build the positive relationships that we'll see young people carrying with them throughout their lives?

Jane Hutt (Labour, Vale of Glamorgan)

Well, thank you very much, Joyce Watson, and thank you for continuing to lead—a champion of not only White Ribbon, which is an all-year-round campaign, but also the work that you do in your constituency and with schools and young people. And we know that tackling violence against women requires that societal change, where we have to start with focusing on young people and education and early intervention.

It is Stori Wales that we fund to deliver the Spectrum Project in schools, and it provides all children in Wales with advice and guidance on healthy relationships. Just one extra point I'd like to make about Spectrum, in response to your question, is that they're working today to develop a peer mentor scheme, and that's really important, in terms of older pupils being able to support younger pupils and students in discussions around healthy relationships, creating safe environments for often difficult conversations, and modelling positive behaviours.

Hannah Blythyn (Labour, Delyn)

2. What action is the Welsh Government taking to ensure people in Delyn are claiming the benefits they are entitled to? OQ62259

Jane Hutt (Labour, Vale of Glamorgan)

Diolch yn fawr, Hannah Blythyn. Our investment in a range of projects, including the 'Claim what's yours' national take-up campaign, free training to empower front-line workers and income maximisation services delivered through the single advice fund, is helping people in Delyn, and across Wales, to claim every pound they're entitled to.

Hannah Blythyn (Labour, Delyn)

Thank you very much for your response and for all of your work in this area.

Hannah Blythyn (Labour, Delyn)

I'm pleased that my own local authority, Flintshire County Council, is amongst those working with the Welsh Government and other partners to make benefits, grants and other payments, such as free school meals, the school essentials grant, and the council tax reduction scheme as simple to claim as they possibly can be.

I believe we need to be clear when we're talking about this that it's about fairness, equality and social justice. It is simply what people deserve and are entitled to as part of a civilised society. I also very much recognise the progressive position that the Welsh Government takes on this and what has been done to provide financial support within the constraints the Government has faced and faces. With that said, Cabinet Secretary, you'll know that I've raised with you before the Unite union’s campaign for further financial support for pensioners in Wales, and would ask again that you give that due consideration. Sadly, we know that too many people do not reach out for support, and can suffer as a consequence. Diolch.

Jane Hutt (Labour, Vale of Glamorgan)

Thank you very much for your very important supplementary question.

Jane Hutt (Labour, Vale of Glamorgan)

I think Flintshire County Council should be congratulated for their commitment to ensuring that people take up—. These are entitlements. This is about us developing our Welsh benefits system here in Wales, and Flintshire is actively engaged in the Welsh benefits charter, the phase 1 route map that will ensure people only need to present their evidence once to claim council tax reduction, free school meals and school essentials grant in each local authority in Wales, and Flintshire taking an active role in that. And also they have engaged in the Policy in Practice—. Flintshire has engaged, as have other north Wales and other authorities in Wales, with Policy in Practice, to ensure that they can target residents who are missing out on any entitlements, beyond the three that we're particularly focusing on. That's about using a data analytics tool from Policy in Practice. They can identify and target residents who are missing out on their entitlements over the course of the year. So, again, I'm glad that Flintshire has taken this up. It's interesting that, in Flintshire, over 10,000 low-income households are in receipt of the council tax reduction scheme. Over 8,000 households pay no council tax at all in Flintshire.

Another point that I think is relevant is that we continue to maintain entitlements by ensuring the council tax reduction scheme is uprated annually to take account of rises in the cost of living. But following your questions to me at an earlier stage, I am meeting Peter Hughes, Wales secretary of Unite, in the next few weeks. I'm also meeting the Unite pensioners to talk about ways in which we can respond to their fuel payment campaign, and I look forward to doing that. I've got the date in the diary, and in fact, if you're available, I'd like you to join us.

Mark Isherwood (Conservative, North Wales)

Despite the figures you use, Flintshire is still nineteenth out of 22 for per capita funding in the local government funding formula.

November's Citizens Advice Flintshire news focused on energy advice and the deadline to claim the non-devolved winter fuel payment. December's Citizens Advice Flintshire news focused on council tax discounts and reductions, which, of course, are devolved.

Questioning you here a year ago on the Welsh benefits charter, I noted that the sector had been calling for a coherent and integrated Welsh benefits system for all the means-tested benefits the Welsh Government is responsible for, as had I, for almost a decade.

The Welsh Government has now published a streamlining Welsh benefits route map to ensure that people can seamlessly claim their entitlement to council tax reduction, free school meals and the school essentials grant in each Welsh local authority by April 2026. This includes:

'Consider how Job Centre Plus signpost to Welsh benefits.'

How will you, therefore, ensure that the call by witnesses to the 2019 Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee inquiry into benefits in Wales and options for better delivery, which I was part of, for Jobcentre Plus offices to act as a single point of access by incorporating a local authority Welsh benefits service is acted upon?

Jane Hutt (Labour, Vale of Glamorgan)

Thank you very much, Mark Isherwood. I'm glad you've repeated what I have been answering to Hannah Blythyn: the importance of the Welsh benefits charter and what it is now delivering. It's going much further beyond those really important discussions that you had back when you were engaging with this back in 2019, and, of course, engaging with Citizens Advice and all those providers through the single advice fund.

Importantly, I met with Fran Targett, the chair of the Welsh benefits steering group—we have a Welsh benefits steering group in Wales—with Matthew Evans, Wrexham council head of revenue and benefits and chair of the local authority senior responsible officer group. I met with them in Wrexham only a few weeks ago, and we talked about the steps that they are taking. They are driving and enabling local authorities across Wales to deliver that access and entitlement to benefits. It was very encouraging to see the partners, including, of course, jobcentres, in the way that this has been taken up.

Can I just give you another example for Flintshire? The school essentials grant allocation for Flintshire local authority for the 2025 grant year is over £400,000, and in the first quarter of the grant year, over £570,000 has been awarded, achieving approximately 125 per cent of the allocated budget and supporting over 4,000 children and young people in Flintshire. So, you can see that, already, this phase 1 is actually delivering to children in need and families in Flintshire and across Wales.

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

Questions now from the party spokespeople. Welsh Conservative spokesperson, Altaf Hussain.

Altaf Hussain (Conservative, South Wales West)

Diolch, Llywydd. Cabinet Secretary, credit unions form the cornerstone of your Government's financial inclusion strategies, and with more and more high-street banks closing, the role of credit unions has never been so important. I was therefore dismayed last week when one of my local credit unions informed me that they're having to close branches due to the increased cost of employing staff due to the Chancellor's autumn budget. Cabinet Secretary, what discussions have you had with the UK Treasury about the impact increased national insurance contributions is having on credit unions? What steps are you taking to ensure that more branches are not forced to close, resulting in loss of access to low-cost finance for our poorest citizens?

Jane Hutt (Labour, Vale of Glamorgan)

Thank you for your question, Altaf Hussain.

Jane Hutt (Labour, Vale of Glamorgan)

I'm really pleased I've got the opportunity to give you an update on credit unions, particularly the Celtic Credit Union in your constituency; indeed, this has been raised across the Chamber. I think it's important to report on the situation in terms of Celtic Credit Union. Actually, it's a number of factors that did drive the closure of the Port Talbot office. It is about how footfall in the branch had reduced dramatically, concerns that people using the branch weren't actually engaging. But they have kept their Neath office open. It is important that we recognise that Celtic Credit Union has taken these decisions to purchase and equip a mobile banking vehicle as part of a move to a different operating model. We've been able to provide a budget uplift of 3 per cent for all grant recipients in the third sector. That's how we're helping them, all our voluntary sector, in these difficult times—3 per cent for all grant recipients. For credit unions, this equates to an additional £13,000, distributed across the projects that we fund, because we give them £500,000 a year. So, we're looking at, clearly, how we can help credit unions, because they are so important, as you say. With the closure of banks, credit unions are the ethical way in which people can save and borrow.

Altaf Hussain (Conservative, South Wales West)

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. Of course, the increase in national insurance contributions is not just impacting credit unions, it is also weighing heavily on those organisations seeking to tackle food and fuel poverty. While it's true to say that many of these services depend on volunteers, it is the paid staff that organise the volunteers and manage the services provided to our most vulnerable citizens. Increased employment costs, as well as the inevitable increase in food and fuel costs thanks to the UK Government's decisions, will impact those services and their ability to help mitigate fuel and food poverty. Cabinet Secretary, how will you ensure that services such as foodbanks and warm hubs do not close as a result of financial pressures placed on them as a result of the Treasury's decisions?

Jane Hutt (Labour, Vale of Glamorgan)

Thank you for your question.

Jane Hutt (Labour, Vale of Glamorgan)

It is important that we have given an uplift to the third sector—it's really important to get that message over and to share that with your constituents. We have 40,000 voluntary organisations in Wales, and they're supported by our 19 county voluntary councils and the Wales Council for Voluntary Action. I just wanted to also identify that not only are we providing an uplift of 3 per cent in the third sector, but organisations are also benefiting from three-year funding agreements—that's what they need for stability and sustainability.

There's three-year funding for the third sector partnership council, the 19 county voluntary councils and the WCVA—they're the ones who actually help the local organisations in terms of funding, access to funding, governance. And I do encourage you all, if you have local organisations: in terms of funding needs and issues and challenges, turn to your local county voluntary council. But also, I am, across the portfolio, supporting that 3 per cent increase to third sector grants in line with the 3 per cent uplift also to commissioners and sponsored bodies. So, in fact, third sector infrastructure will receive funding of £25.8 million, a 7 per cent increase on previous years.

I’m also pleased you’ve mentioned warm hubs and volunteers—£1.5 million I’ve announced, of course, for warm hubs this year, and it’s in the draft budget for next year as well. I’ve been visiting warm hubs, where volunteers are making a huge contribution to supporting vulnerable people to access information, advice and guidance, but also breaking down isolation. At Llanddewi Velfrey village hall, after storm Dennis, they brought people together when people lost their electricity supplies. So, the voluntary sector is getting this uplift in the draft budget, and also those longer term three-year funding arrangements.

Altaf Hussain (Conservative, South Wales West)

I am grateful to you, Cabinet Secretary. With key employers and sectors warning that the Chancellor’s decision will impact jobs and growth, as well as pushing up retail prices, it’s more important than ever that we redouble efforts to tackle poverty in Wales. Independent assessments show that Rachel Reeves’s budget will hit low-paid workers in Wales the hardest. These same households are seeing their fuel bills rise, their water bills go up, and they are dreading the council tax bills dropping on their doorsteps. Cabinet Secretary, what discussions have you had with the Cabinet Secretary for finance on the actions your Government can take to shield low-paid workers in Wales from the hardships to come as a result of the UK Government’s decisions? Thank you.

Jane Hutt (Labour, Vale of Glamorgan)

Thank you. I’ve given you some feedback on the ways in which we’re supporting the third sector in particular. I would say also, just in terms of the support we are giving, we must remember as well—and this applies to smaller organisations and employers—that the employment allowance—that’s the Government initiative that reduces eligible national insurance liability—is, of course, being increased from April of next year to £10,500 for the tax year 2025-26. That is for the smaller charities and employers. It’s important to say that charities and eligible businesses can claim the allowance to reduce their secondary class 1 national insurance contributions. And it helps young people as well. So, we must make sure that information gets through.

But of course, what we are doing in terms of tackling child poverty, which we are taking forward, is not just making sure that everyone takes up the entitlements—we’ve been talking about that in the earlier questions—but also just to recognise the other ways in which we are supporting people who may be affected. I think last week, the fact that we announced that thousands more post-16 learners in colleges and sixth forms will receive the education maintenance allowance, following the decision to uplift the household income thresholds, will result in so many more young people, as well as families and people in work, being able to apply for the education maintenance allowance.

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Sioned Williams.

Sioned Williams (Plaid Cymru, South Wales West)

Diolch, Llywydd. Last week, the Joseph Rowntree Foundation published its latest report on poverty, and the findings are damning. Child poverty is rising across the UK, and Wales is set to have the highest rate. By 2029, over 34 per cent of children in Wales will be living in poverty—more than in England, more than in Northern Ireland. One part of the UK is expected to do better—Scotland. There, child poverty is actually expected to fall. Why? Well, the report says it’s mainly because of the Scottish child payment—a policy Scotland can deliver, of course, because they have more powers over welfare than we do. The UK Labour Government have refused to take crucial steps so far on repairing the social security system, such as scrapping the two-child limit and benefit cap, which used to, of course, be called for by yourselves.

When I’ve asked the First Minister about action on child poverty, she always responds with how economic growth is the answer. But this report argues that we will fail to shift the dial on child poverty if we rely on rising economic growth alone to boost low-income family finances. So, Cabinet Secretary, what’s your response to this report, and Wales being on course for the worst child poverty rates in the UK, even though we have a change of Government in Westminster? Do you agree that Scotland’s ability to control social security has allowed them to take meaningful action on child poverty? Will you make a stronger case for Wales to have these powers?

Jane Hutt (Labour, Vale of Glamorgan)

Thank you very much, Sioned Williams. Of course, the Joseph Rowntree Foundation report does provide a very stark view of the UK picture for those people living in poverty, and I’m committed, as is the whole Welsh Government, to taking action. It is about working collaboratively both in Government and with people across Wales to address these issues, with our local authorities, our NHS, our third sector. We’re doing all we can, within our powers, to support people and get money into people’s pockets, as I’ve described, and our child poverty strategy sets out long-term ambitions for tackling poverty.

I’m pleased that I actually now work closely with the UK Government and other devolved Governments through the four nations ministerial group on the UK child poverty strategy. That’s really helpful because I’m sitting in a four nations ministerial group with colleagues from Scottish Government, so they can share their experience of what it means to have those powers with the Northern Ireland Executive, with me as Welsh Government Cabinet Secretary, as well as led by UK Government Ministers. So, we are looking at what it means to have those powers, and also looking, I have to say, really importantly, at our social security system, which, of course, in terms of—. We use the levers that we have. But these are all being raised at that ministerial group.

Sioned Williams (Plaid Cymru, South Wales West)

That’s good to hear, so I’d like to ask if you could just update us on what’s in the mind of the UK Government as regards devolving those powers and that resource to Wales to be able to make that difference and shift that dial, because, obviously, action is needed. Plaid Cymru, the children’s commissioner and the Senedd’s Equality and Social Justice Committee have long been calling for targets in the child poverty strategy because, without those clear and binding targets, how do we know if we’re even making the difference that we need to make, given the powers that we have?

The Joseph Rowntree report points at Scotland. They’ve introduced legal targets to tackle child poverty, and they’re the only UK nation predicted to see child poverty fall. I don’t think that’s a coincidence; it’s the result of taking action, making commitments, and being held accountable. We’ve got to remember, this isn’t just about statistics; it’s about families, it’s about children, it’s about the future of our nation. Every child will be affected when they’re growing up in poverty— their education, their life chances, their health. So, I’d like to know, in light of this report by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation, why do you believe that the Welsh Government can truly tackle child poverty without those statutory targets to help drive and measure progress?

Jane Hutt (Labour, Vale of Glamorgan)

I thank you for that supplementary question. It is important that you already have had or will be having in the Equality and Social Justice Committee a briefing from Professor Rod Hick about ways in which we can assess the impact of our child poverty strategy, given the powers that we have. Of course, the key powers and levers lie in tax and benefits. That’s why it is so important that I am sitting on that four nations ministerial group. Also, as you know, I have been progressing and we are now doing more research about how we could access and follow on our commitments to looking at devolving the administration of benefits to Wales. That is still within our programme for government, and that is what we’re doing. But I would say also that it is important that we do use our powers, and with our local authorities, the Welsh benefits charter, but also the things that we’re doing with Policy in Practice, also funding the Fuel Bank Foundation to help people in fuel crisis. I’ve been raising this at the four nations meeting, that it’s tackling food poverty, tackling fuel poverty and getting a decent social security system that should be a UK-wide ambition.

Sioned Williams (Plaid Cymru, South Wales West)

It certainly should be a UK-wide ambition, but we haven’t seen action on it so far from the UK Labour Government. Many reports have shown that women, particularly those from marginalised backgrounds, bear the brunt of economic hardship, whether through the gender pay gap, pension gap, a lack of access to affordable childcare or insecure, low-paid jobs. The Wales Women’s Budget Group and Women’s Equality Network Wales point to the deprioritisation of equalities issues in the last budget, highlighting the urgent need, therefore, for gender budgeting in Wales, and that women in Wales, particularly those facing specific intersectional disadvantages, are being further pushed into debt and poverty. So, it’s essential to prevent decisions that deepen that inequality. Some progress has been made, but we're still waiting for the publication of evaluations of the Welsh Government's remaining three gender budgeting pilots, which were scheduled to end by 2023. These pilots, as I say, are crucial for shaping future policies. So, Cabinet Secretary, when will we see the results of those pilots? What work are you undertaking to progress further the roll-out of gender budgeting, and when can we expect to see the evaluation of those pilots published?

Jane Hutt (Labour, Vale of Glamorgan)

Thank you very much for your question.

Jane Hutt (Labour, Vale of Glamorgan)

Those pilots are crucially important, the gender budgeting pilots. And can I say how much I welcome and have always welcomed the work of the Wales Women's Budget Group, to make sure that we are advised not just by people, but women particularly with lived experience, representing people with lived experience, and particularly those who are most marginalised? As you say, this is very intersectional and it's very much reflected in our 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan' and will be reflected in our disability rights action plan, as well as looking at this particularly from a gender perspective. So, yes, we will be responding on those points to account for the impact of the gender budgeting pilots.

Paul Davies (Conservative, Preseli Pembrokeshire)

3. What is the Welsh Government doing to support the voluntary sector in Preseli Pembrokeshire? OQ62239

Jane Hutt (Labour, Vale of Glamorgan)

Diolch yn fawr, Paul Davies. Third Sector Support Wales will receive core funding of £5.677 million in 2024-25, and £221,121 of this funding goes to the Pembrokeshire Association of Voluntary Services, to help local voluntary organisations with fundraising, good governance, safeguarding and volunteering.

Paul Davies (Conservative, Preseli Pembrokeshire)

Cabinet Secretary, it is crucial that there is support for the sector, given the vital services that charities provide to so many people in our communities. Now, in my own constituency, Adam's Bucketful of Hope is an example of a local charity that has raised huge amounts of money for cancer services, and it also provides support services for those with cancer and their families from its community centre. In fact, its community centre is so popular that the charity needs to move to bigger premises in order to allow them to provide services to more users. Now, the historic Foley House in Haverfordwest has been empty for a number of years, and should Adam's Bucketful of Hope be able to get sufficient funding to secure the building, it would bring an empty building back into use and help the charity to deliver much needed therapies and support in the community. So, Cabinet Secretary, will you join me in acknowledging the role that charities like Adam's Bucketful of Hope play in our local communities, and can you tell us what support is available to help charities like this, who are hoping to acquire bigger premises so that they can continue to support as many people as possible?

Jane Hutt (Labour, Vale of Glamorgan)

Thank you very much, Paul Davies, and thank you for giving me the opportunity to praise Adam's Bucketful of Hope, your charity in Pembrokeshire, and, of course, that means praising the volunteers, because I'm sure it's very much volunteer led. When I was recently in Pembrokeshire, visiting Llanddewi Velfrey village hall—I've mentioned this already—following storm Bert, it was so good to meet not just the Pembrokeshire Association of Voluntary Services but many of the voluntary groups that you represent in your constituency. Now, I would suggest that they do approach the Pembrokeshire Association of Voluntary Services for advice on funding routes, but I would say that this looks to me like the opportunity for either a community asset loan or, indeed, the community facilities programme, which we fund and which, of course, has capital grants of up to £300,000 to enable community-led projects to purchase or improve community facilities, and the programme, since 2015, has funded 23 projects in Pembrokeshire, awarding grants worth over £2.5 million.

Natasha Asghar (Conservative, South Wales East)

4. What action is the Welsh Government taking to tackle poverty in South Wales East? OQ62266

Jane Hutt (Labour, Vale of Glamorgan)

Thank you, Natasha Asghar. We continue to take action across Wales, including South Wales East, to tackle poverty. We have invested almost £5 billion between 2022 and 2025 in schemes that help people access their entitlements and help keep money in people’s pockets and target support at people who need it most.

Natasha Asghar (Conservative, South Wales East)

Thank you for your response. Cabinet Secretary, as of 2018, there were 26,000 households living in fuel poverty in my region of south-east Wales alone. The Welsh Government's Warm Homes scheme was launched to tackle this problem, although we know that progress has been painfully slow, with warnings that it will take more than 100 years to retrofit all homes at risk of fuel poverty. Clearly, there is a big chunk of work that needs to be done here if the Government is going to hit its target and have no more than 5 per cent of households in Wales living in fuel poverty by 2035. We need to be lifting more people out of fuel poverty, Cabinet Secretary, yet it would appear that not everyone sees it like this, with the Labour Chancellor cruelly snatching winter fuel payments away from our pensioners. By your own admission, Cabinet Secretary, this callous and unforgiveable act risks pushing some pensioners into fuel poverty. My Welsh Conservative colleagues and I firmly believe that this Government should create a Welsh winter fuel payment fund to support our pensioners who have been punished by the Labour Government in Westminster. So, will you commit to doing just that, Cabinet Secretary? And if not, what do you say to those pensioners who are facing the tough decision between heating and eating? Thank you.

Jane Hutt (Labour, Vale of Glamorgan)

Well, I hope you did read the written statement that I produced last week on tackling fuel poverty—a key commitment of the Welsh Government. And as I've said more than once this afternoon, an important way to tackle fuel poverty is to get more money into people's pockets. Clearly, that's what we need to do in terms of our powers and our responsibilities, and that strong benefit take-up campaign, which included the pension credit campaign on the take-up of pension credit, which would lead to eligibility for the winter fuel payment. And I do draw attention to our latest media burst for our 'Claim what's yours' national benefits take-up campaign. It started in January and will run through to the end of March, and this is a call to action to signpost people to ensure that they can claim what's theirs.

You did mention the Warm Homes programme as well, and it is important that we maximise the reach of Warm Homes Nest with the Welsh Local Government Association, the local authorities, and ensure that we leverage funding from Westminster through schemes such as the energy companies obligation scheme.

Delyth Jewell (Plaid Cymru, South Wales East)

I wanted to focus on a similar issue. The UK Government's decision to cut the winter fuel allowance for so many thousands of pensioners is cutting cruelly into people's lives. And what makes this worse is that this has been a deliberate decision made by Westminster, which could be reversed. They have the power to change this and they're choosing not to. A survey conducted by Unite in Wales has found that worrying numbers of people have had to change how they live because of this cut. Many have said that they've felt hungry more often or become ill as a result of not having the heating on. One person told Unite that their wife and they have to live in one room and ration themselves to one hot meal a day. This is happening in the twenty-first century in what is meant to be one of the richest places in the world, and it's happening on Westminster's watch. Now, I do commend you for the work that you are doing to, as you say, get more money into people's pockets, but will your Government do all it can to bring pressure on the Westminster Government to change and reverse this terrible policy, which is making people's lives miserable?

Jane Hutt (Labour, Vale of Glamorgan)

Well, thank you for that supplementary question. As I said, I'm very much looking forward to meeting Unite—Hannah Blythyn will be joining me—and the pensioners as well, not just to hear from them but also to be able to tell them and work with them on ways in which we are enabling pensioners, particularly older people, to take up all the benefits that they're entitled to. And I would say that that also includes not just the fuel voucher but discretionary assistance schemes as well as the Warm Homes programme. But I just need to say, of course, and I've said this before in this Chamber, the winter fuel payment is devolved to Northern Ireland and it will be to Scotland from 2025. It's not devolved to Wales, so we're not able to legislate for an equivalent winter fuel payment scheme. But what we need to do is make sure that we do enable people to take up the benefits that they are entitled to in Wales.

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Ynys Môn)

5. What plans does the Welsh Government have to expand the provision of CCTV cameras in order to improve community safety in rural areas of Anglesey? OQ62271

Jane Hutt (Labour, Vale of Glamorgan)

Diolch yn fawr, Rhun ap Iorwerth. Criminal justice is reserved to the UK Government, but we work together with policing partners to protect communities across Wales, and North Wales Police have provided reassurances on their robust approach to supporting communities in Anglesey.

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Ynys Môn)

Thank you very much for that response. CCTV cameras are one of those tools that we have in order to tackle criminal behaviour, but it's urban areas that are most likely to have those CCTV cameras, whilst many of the people I represent, of course, live in rural areas. Now, the Plaid Cymru group of councillors on Anglesey have been leading on calls for a mobile CCTV resource that could be introduced in order to tackle cases of agricultural theft, possibly, or anti-social behaviour or criminal damage in more rural areas. Now, of course, there would be a need to work across different agencies to provide this—the UK Government, the Welsh Government, local authorities and community councils, and, of course, the police themselves and police and crime commissioners. But will the Minister provide a commitment to be willing to work with stakeholders in order to introduce resources that could mean that people living in more rural areas can feel that work is being done to keep them safe?

Jane Hutt (Labour, Vale of Glamorgan)

Diolch yn fawr, Rhun ap Iorwerth, and I think it’s particularly important that you focus on tackling crime and rural crime, and although not directly devolved, and, indeed, use of CCTV is governed by the Information Commissioner’s Office—a really important tool in safeguarding public places and helping to deter crime and enhancing national security. I would say also the partnership with the police in north Wales, and particularly in your constituency—. The police in Anglesey have told us about initiatives like We Don't Buy Crime—I'm sure you're aware of it—and community alerts. But I will engage with the Police and Crime Commissioner for North Wales and police chiefs to look at the very issues that you’ve raised today.

Sam Rowlands (Conservative, North Wales)

6. Will the Cabinet Secretary provide an update on Welsh Government guidance on gypsy traveller sites? OQ62258

Jane Hutt (Labour, Vale of Glamorgan)

Diolch yn fawr, Sam Rowlands. My officials will consult on four pieces of Gypsy and Traveller guidance in coming weeks with key stakeholders, aiming to publish final guidance in the summer of 2025. As part of this consultation, direct engagement on the draft guidance documents will also take place with community members.

Sam Rowlands (Conservative, North Wales)

Thank you for that response, Cabinet Secretary. I joined a meeting recently with Carolyn Thomas and Jack Sargeant with Flintshire County Council, political leaders and officers, and I was really pleased to see the provision that they provide for Gypsies and Travellers in Flintshire, providing more than enough allocated sites, according to the assessed need. But the council shared with us some of the challenges they're having with illegal sites in the council area at the moment, with 10 new illegal sites being established in the county within the last 12 months, meaning there are now currently 15 illegal sites in one county area. And they shared with us that it's taking up to five years to deal with these illegal sites, and that’s causing great pressure on council resources, both personnel and financial; it’s causing huge concern in the communities, but most importantly, it's not helping the cause and needs of the Gypsy and Traveller community on sites that aren't necessarily appropriate for them. So, I wonder, Cabinet Secretary, if you'd be willing to meet, as part of the consultation, perhaps, with myself and perhaps other colleagues in the room, and also with Flintshire County Council to understand the specific issues that they're facing, to help inform some of your work. Diolch yn fawr.

Jane Hutt (Labour, Vale of Glamorgan)

Diolch yn fawr, Sam Rowlands. I was aware about the meeting that you held with Flintshire County Council, and I believe with planning officials as well, and with councillors as well as Senedd Members. I think it's going to be really useful that we're consulting on this guidance, which includes managing unauthorised encampments, how you manage Gypsy and Traveller sites in Wales and undertaking those Gypsy and Traveller accommodation assessments, which I have approved for Flintshire, but I would be very happy to engage with you on this issue.

I think it is important also—and I'm glad that you recognise this—that we do understand the needs of Gypsy, Roma and Traveller people in terms of what their housing needs are, including unauthorised use, but also the fact that many are now seeking to have private pitches as well as transit pitches. So, I would be glad to engage with you and colleagues, our Senedd Members, who were at that meeting, and Flintshire council.

Laura Anne Jones (Conservative, South Wales East)

7. What discussions has the Cabinet Secretary had with the UK Government Secretary of State for Justice about introducing a women's prison in Wales? OQ62254

Jane Hutt (Labour, Vale of Glamorgan)

Thank you for that question, Laura Anne. I welcome the proposed residential women’s centre in Swansea as an alternative to custody. I engage regularly with Lord Timpson, Minister for prisons, parole, probation and reducing reoffending on this matter.

Laura Anne Jones (Conservative, South Wales East)

Diolch. Cabinet Secretary, there is no prison for women in Wales, and we desperately need one. Women who are arrested in Wales are taken to England. This means that there are long journeys on public transport or in cars from where the prisoners lived to where they are imprisoned. Prisoners who receive visits are 39 per cent less likely to return to prison, and yet we have a prison system here in Wales where women are placed many miles away from family and friends across the border in England. This is clearly no way to rehabilitate offenders, and it's evident in the high rates of reoffending for women in Wales compared with men. Cabinet Secretary, can you look into working with the UK Government to create a women's prison here in Wales, as one is well overdue? Thank you.

Jane Hutt (Labour, Vale of Glamorgan)

Thank you very much, Laura Anne, for your supplementary question. I know that you will understand that our policy position remains absolutely clear that there should be no additional prison places in Wales, including for women. This is because our vision for justice is a preventative, trauma-informed approach that addresses those very underlying causes of offending and stops crime happening in the first place. I'm grateful that you acknowledge the fact that we do need—I think the case you make, and the arguments and the evidence you give point us to the importance of having a women's residential centre as an alternative to prison. It's a key priority of the women's justice blueprint, it's a priority, indeed, of the new UK Government, and I emphasised this to Lord Timpson when we met on 18 September.

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

Julie Morgan.

Julie Morgan (Labour, Cardiff North)

Diolch, Llywydd. Thank you very much for calling me for this supplementary question, and I do recognise what the Cabinet Secretary has said in response. I've campaigned not to have a women's prison in Wales for many years, along with others in this room, for the reasons that the Cabinet Secretary has given. I think it's very important to remember that over half of the women in prison are mothers, affecting 17,000 children a year in the UK, and it is absolutely essential that we tackle this issue by providing residential centres. I am really very anxious to know what progress is being made on the residential centre planned in Wales and whether the discussions with the UK Government are productive, because we do seem to have been waiting a very long time for this women's residential centre to actually happen.

Jane Hutt (Labour, Vale of Glamorgan)

Thank you very much for that supplementary question. It is something on which we should unite in this Chamber, shouldn't we, to ensure that we actually get this residential women's centre, because I should have said, responding to Laura Anne earlier on, that it was actually a former Conservative UK Government that announced that we should have a pilot residential women's centre in Wales, back in May 2022. I am as impatient as you are, who campaigned for this residential women's centre, that it should now come to fruition. We have a site now; we've had difficulty in terms of securing that site.

I think it's really important that Laura Anne has mentioned the distances that people have to travel. Well, yes, in the meantime, we are funding Visiting Mum initiatives, supporting women, as we can, who are in prisons, and, indeed, many of us have visited women prisons like Eastwood Park outside of Wales and in Styal outside north Wales. We must get this residential women's centre open, and I believe that the Lord Chancellor in October announced very clearly the establishment of the Women's Justice Board. We've already attended one meeting, and she is in favour of residential women's centres. So, I'm grateful for the questions today, which strengthen that case.

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

Question 8 finally. James Evans.

James Evans (Conservative, Brecon and Radnorshire)

8. How is the Cabinet Secretary addressing fuel poverty among park home owners? OQ62257

Jane Hutt (Labour, Vale of Glamorgan)

Thank you, James Evans. Everyone in fuel poverty, including park homes residents, can receive free energy advice and support through our Warm Homes Nest scheme to heat their homes in a more efficient way. My recent written statement outlined other support, such as fuel vouchers, warm hubs and the discretionary assistance fund.

James Evans (Conservative, Brecon and Radnorshire)

Thank you for that answer, Cabinet Secretary. Many park home owners across Wales are being charged excessive amounts for water bills, because they're not allowed to install water meters outside their property due to park home owners actually owning the parks themselves not allowing them to do so. That is pushing many people into fuel poverty. Will you and the Welsh Government commit to granting residents of mobile park homes the ability to have a water meter put on their premises to stop park home owners in general making excessive profits out of people for their water bills. I think it's an absolute shame that we don't allow people to do this, and it's something that I think needs to be addressed as soon as possible.

Jane Hutt (Labour, Vale of Glamorgan)

Thank you for drawing attention to this point, James Evans. I mean, park home owners can access the discretionary assistance fund towards fuel and energy costs, and hopefully we can direct your constituents to that, as well as the Fuel Bank Foundation in terms of energy costs. But you've raised an issue about water, the cost and access to water meters to manage the cost of water, and I will certainly be taking this up to give you an answer on that point.

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

I thank the Cabinet Secretary.

3. Questions to the Senedd Commission

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

The next item will be the questions to the Senedd Commission, and today's question is to be answered by Joyce Watson and the question is to be asked by James Evans.

James Evans (Conservative, Brecon and Radnorshire)

1. What consideration has the Senedd Commission given to becoming a signatory to the Armed Forces Covenant? OQ62256

Joyce Watson (Labour, Mid and West Wales)

I thank you for that question. The armed forces covenant is a promise ensuring that those who serve or have served in the armed forces are treated fairly. While the Commission is currently not a signatory of the covenant, the Commission is proud to support employees who serve in the reserve or cadet forces. The Commission offers up to five days of paid special leave each year to attend the annual training camp, with further flexibility if additional time is required for training. This is to ensure that our employees can fulfil their training requirements without financial impact. If an employee is called up for service with the reserve forces, the Commission is committed to safeguarding their employment in accordance with the Reserve Forces (Safeguard of Employment) Act 1985. We will ensure that employees can return to the same role, with terms and conditions no less favourable than if they had not been mobilised. Our commitment reflects the value that we place on those who serve, ensuring that they can balance their military and civilian responsibilities with confidence and security.

James Evans (Conservative, Brecon and Radnorshire)

I'd like to thank the Commissioner for her answer there. It is disappointing that the Senedd Commission will not sign the armed forces covenant. I'd be quite interested to hear from you why the Senedd Commission is not willing to sign the armed forces covenant. Were there any specific policy reasons why you chose not to do that, or is it something, perhaps, that the Commission would look to do in the future? Because there are many opportunities that the armed forces covenant does provide, with encouraging veterans and those who serve in our armed forces who did serve to actually become employees of the Senedd to improve our diversity amongst our staff here as well. Because some of those ex-veterans have got huge skills that they could bring to the Senedd Commission and to our staff base here. So, I'd be very interested to know why the Senedd Commission hasn't signed the armed forces covenant and what work you are doing to increase the amount of veterans who have opportunities to come and work for the Senedd Commission here and bring the skills that they've learnt in our armed forces to benefit our Senedd.

Joyce Watson (Labour, Mid and West Wales)

We do recognise the unique challenges that veterans who we employ may face when transitioning into civilian life, and are committed to providing comprehensive support for their well-being. The Commission's employee assistance programme offers a confidential, 24/7 support service designed to help veterans and their line managers navigate both personal and professional challenges, and that service goes beyond counselling, providing expert guidance on debt management, legal advice, couple counselling, management coaching and ensuring that support is tailored to individual needs. The Commission is also exploring implementing a veterans guaranteed interview scheme—a core principle of the covenant—and that aims to provide veterans with the opportunity to demonstrate their ability beyond the initial application stage when applying for jobs with the Commission. Now, those are things that we are already doing, and, of course, we do currently have some of those people under our employment.

You raised the question of why we have not signed it, and it isn't a case of not wanting to—I want to make that perfectly clear—but signing the covenant will require an organisation to follow through on the commitments, and that may require human resource policy changes, training or additional support measures. Employers who support reservists may need to accommodate absences—and we do that already—or deployment, which could impact workforce planning. But there are limited benefits for some organisations, if an organisation has little interaction.

I do know that the House of Commons is a signatory of the covenant, but I also know that no other UK legislature has signed. So, what I’m really saying here is, if it is the will of the Senedd to explore the opportunity of signing the covenant, then we would certainly go along with that wish. That is what I wanted, really, to say. We haven’t had a request as yet, by individual employees or trade unions, to sign it. If we receive any such request, of course, we'd look at it, along with the rest of the Senedd.

4. Topical Questions

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

Item 4 is next, the topical questions. The first of these questions is to be answered by the Cabinet Secretary for Education. Adam Price will ask the question.

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Carmarthen East and Dinefwr)

1. Will the Cabinet Secretary provide an update on changes to school safety policy following the conclusion of the trial concerning the attack at Ysgol Dyffryn Aman? TQ1297

Lynne Neagle (Labour, Torfaen)

Violence against staff and pupils in schools is completely unacceptable, and incidents like the one at Ysgol Dyffryn Amman are very rare. Our guidance is clear on the powers that schools have around the use of reasonable force, searching for weapons and what can be grounds for exclusion.

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Carmarthen East and Dinefwr)

I think that the Cabinet Secretary has now confirmed, I believe, that there is going to be a summit on school behaviour—in March, I believe. The NASUWT was the original union that called for this. They describe the current situation as a behaviour crisis. I was wondering if the Cabinet Secretary, in holding the summit, now shares that assessment. Can she say a little bit more about what’s going to be discussed during the summit? Are some of the policy ideas, for example, that have been discussed in the last few days—the use of security guards, the use of scanners in schools, extending the powers of teachers to search without consent, the content of behaviour management policies, the use and resourcing of pupil referral units—are all of these ideas in scope, and are we looking around the world, really, at what works, in order to apply those lessons to Wales?

And talking of lessons, is the Cabinet Secretary able to share with us already today—or will it be shared at the summit—what you think the lessons are that have been learned so far from the incident at Ysgol Dyffryn Amman? As a backdrop to the summit, will there be evidence in terms of what's the scale of the problem in terms of violence, physical and verbal abuse in our schools? And are you committing, Cabinet Secretary—? Beyond the summit itself as an event, are you committing to a process that will result in an action plan of commitments in terms of policy resourcing and all the other important matters, so that we can see those ideas actually put into action?

Lynne Neagle (Labour, Torfaen)

Thank you very much, Adam, for those questions. You began by saying that I had now committed to a behaviour summit. I made that commitment quite some time ago now, and that was made on the back of the conversations that I was having, going out and about in Wales and talking to school practitioners, as well as, obviously, our trade union partners.

I am concerned about behaviour in schools. I think that what we are seeing in schools is that we are seeing more and more children and young people with increasing complexity, with additional learning needs, with mental health issues. And we're also, as a result, seeing more challenges with behaviour. I do believe that the situation has become worse since the pandemic. So, that’s why, after discussions with our trade union colleagues, I agreed to hold the summit.

Now, you asked about the summit, and I just wanted to be clear that the summit is not the only thing that we are doing. We were working anyway on a behaviour toolkit to support headteachers and senior leaders in schools in making well-informed decisions about behaviour policies, and also to help with strategies to prevent behavioural issues and to deal with issues when they happen and prevent problems escalating.

We also, though, commissioned Estyn to undertake a thematic review on behaviour in schools, and that work is due to be published in May. And in addition to that, we commissioned Bangor University to undertake research into disruptive classroom behaviours and effective mitigation, and we wanted to understand the nature and volume of challenging and school-based disruptive behaviour. That research will explore the range and effectiveness of measures currently used in schools and settings to address challenging behaviours. So, there’s a range of work going on, and we are holding the summit after Estyn has reported—they’re reporting in May—because I’m really keen that we’ve got the maximum amount of information, and Estyn will be involved in the summit.

You referred to what we would be discussing in the summit. We’re currently working with trade unions and other partners to scope out the summit. It is going to look at a range of issues, and I’m very keen, as part of that, to look at issues such as what’s happened in Ysgol Dyffryn Aman. That’s very important too. We’re going to be taking that work forward through the summit, but I’m really keen that it is action focused, really, and that we have a chance to look at all the issues that are causing problems and come up with a very clear action plan.

Now, you mentioned things like whether schools can search pupils without consent. They can already search pupils without consent for a weapon, such as a knife, so that is already in place. And then, just in terms of the lessons from Ysgol Dyffryn Aman, I just wanted to assure the Member—and you’ll recall that I paid tribute to the way that the school and the local authority had handled the incident at the time. But, following that, we also contacted all local authorities to make sure that they could provide us with assurance that their emergency policies were up to date, and we also reviewed our emergency planning and response guidance in light of the learning from the incident. Now that the trial is over, there will, as I’m sure you can appreciate, be a process that’s gone through to learn the wider lessons of what happened in the run-up to that terrible day in Ysgol Dyffryn Aman, and we’re speaking with the local authority about the best way to understand and learn from what happened. And I’m really keen that we make sure that any lessons then are, obviously, shared across Wales, whether it’s by the behaviour summit, if lessons have emerged by then, or, if not, we will find other routes.

Natasha Asghar (Conservative, South Wales East)

Cabinet Secretary, it’s clear that violence in schools is, concerningly, becoming more and more frequent, and it’s an issue that needs tackling urgently. We’ve talked about the horrific incident in Ammanford, but this is an issue that’s much more widespread and much more deep rooted. In recent weeks, we’ve seen schools in Pembrokeshire, north Port Talbot, Caerphilly and my own patch of Newport placed on lockdown, and only today South Wales Police issued a statement about a knife reportedly being found in a bag of a student at a school in Bridgend. Nobody—and I mean nobody—should be going into work with fears of being attacked, and schools should be a safe place for all pupils, students and everyone else in between.

Of course, as we’ve seen in the news recently, this isn’t just an issue exclusive to Wales. So, what discussions have you had with the UK Government about steps that they’re taking, and are there any practices that we can adopt here in Wales? In the NASUWT’s recent Big Question survey, 23 per cent of professionals said physical assault on teachers caused them the greatest concern when they were in the classroom, with 32 per cent saying it was threatening behaviour, and 41 per cent deeming it to be violence between pupils. From my understanding, Welsh Government guidance says carrying a weapon no longer applies as a reason for exclusion. So, Cabinet Secretary, can you please confirm if this still is the case today, and will you commit to a thorough review of all school safety policies to ensure we protect our school communities going forward? Thank you.

Lynne Neagle (Labour, Torfaen)

Thank you very much, Natasha, and there were quite a few questions there. Can I just be clear that our exclusions guidance does say that schools can exclude a pupil permanently for carrying a weapon? That is the case at the moment, and, as I said to Adam Price, there is also the power to search pupils without consent, and there are further powers to search with consent for other items. But the power without consent deals with actual weapons.

As I said to Adam Price, I am really worried about what we are seeing in schools in terms of behaviour, and I think it does come down to the complexity. We're seeing more and more young people who aren't able to self-regulate in schools. That's why we're putting so much emphasis on mental health. But I hope that, by bringing everybody together now in the summit, we will be able to explore these issues in detail. I was speaking to Bridget Phillipson only this morning, actually, about this issue, and also, obviously, there was the tragic death of the young person in Sheffield on Monday.

In terms of learning from good practice—and I didn't answer Adam's point on that—we're always keen to look at good practice wherever it is. We're very actively involved in the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, proactively involved with the OECD, and, when I met the OECD recently, this was one of the issues I discussed with them, around behaviour. We talked about how some schools have maybe not got that sense of belonging anymore, and that that's something that we really need to foster. The OECD are coming to Wales in the spring now, and we're doing a peer learning event with them. But we are very keen to learn from wherever good practice is, and I'll be continuing to discuss these issues with the UK Government.

Tom Giffard (Conservative, South Wales West)

Thank you to Adam Price for tabling this important question. Obviously, the incident that we saw in Ammanford was truly shocking, and I just want to pay tribute as well to the staff involved, particularly the staff, I think, that spoke bravely at the conclusion of the case and shared their experience in terms of what they had gone through. Unfortunately, this is an issue that's becoming more and more prevalent. We saw the issue just yesterday in Bryntirion Comprehensive School in Bridgend, where a pupil carried a knife, and the really, really tragic incident we saw on Monday in Sheffield, where a young person lost their life.

Adam mentioned a series of actions that could be taken by the Welsh Government, whether that be security guards and screening, enhanced powers for teaching staff, and, whilst I think those certainly do need to be considered, I think you overlook the root of the problem here, which is that young people and their dynamic and their sense of belonging in a school has changed, and it has changed since the pandemic. So, I wonder what lessons the Welsh Government is learning in terms of how young people's interaction with school, if you like, has changed as a consequence of the pandemic, as a consequence of not attending school on a regular basis, and then what lessons we can learn for that generation and for future generations so that the impacts of the pandemic are truly felt, known and understood.

Lynne Neagle (Labour, Torfaen)

Thank you very much, Tom. I'm aware of the incident in Bryntirion school, which is currently under investigation, so I'm not in a position to comment on that. I most certainly do not overlook the root of the problems. I think I've referred very explicitly to some of the challenges that we're seeing in our schools. We're seeing more and more children and young people who are having emotional problems, who are struggling to self-regulate, more and more children and young people presenting with complex ALN, and behaviour is communication, isn't it? We have to remember that. So, I am acutely aware of the root of the problems, and that's why as a Government we are placing so much emphasis on the mental health and well-being of our learners.

We have a whole-school approach to mental health in Wales, we have counselling available to all learners aged six and above, and that has been the case for years in Wales, unlike over the border. We've got child and adolescent mental health services inreach in schools and we've got mental health as a statutory part of our curriculum. So, we are very much focused on tackling the root of the problem, but one of the things that I’ve been talking about is that what we are seeing is a load of societal problems landing in schools, really. They’re always open, they’re there, and we have also, I think, seen something of a disconnect, maybe a breakdown in that contract between schools and families that we need to address.

So, as part of the work that we’re doing on behaviour, we’re also going to be engaging with young people and with families as well. I do think it preceded the pandemic. Certainly, when I was Chair of the committee, I was hugely concerned about mental health then, and it wasn’t about mental illness, it was about young people who were distressed about what was going on in their lives. But we are committed to tackling that, so the behaviour summit will help.

As I say, we want to engage with children and young people as well, but I’m also keen to work with colleagues across Government, because this is a cross-Government problem—it’s about early years, right back to parent-infant relationships; it’s about early intervention from things like social care; it’s about job opportunities. So, there is a role for everybody in the Government to play to make a brighter future for our young people and hopefully stem this tide of distress that we’re seeing.

David Rees (Labour, Aberavon)

I thank the Cabinet Secretary. The next topical question will be from Heledd Fychan.

Heledd Fychan (Plaid Cymru, South Wales Central)

2. Will the Cabinet Secretary make a statement regarding the situation that has led to the closure, without notice, of Cardiff National Museum? TQ1296

Jack Sargeant (Labour, Alyn and Deeside)

Diolch. National Museum Cardiff is temporarily closed for a few days to deal with a mechanical issue in an isolated area of the building. The repairs are under way and I look forward to the doors being open to the public again very soon.

Heledd Fychan (Plaid Cymru, South Wales Central)

Diolch, Weinidog. I hope you can appreciate why this is of such grave concern, not only to us as Senedd Members, but to members of the public. We’ve heard warnings from Amgueddfa Cymru and Llyfrgell Genedlaethol Cymru for a number of years that the state of the buildings, because of chronic under-investment by this Welsh Labour Government and previous ones, is putting the national collections at risk. We were warned by Jane Richardson, chief executive of Amgueddfa Cymru, when she appeared before the Culture, Communications, Welsh Language, Sport, and International Relations Committee on 6 December 2023, that without urgent repairs to the mechanical, electrical, and plumbing systems at the National Museum Cardiff, our institutions would struggle to function.

We’ve seen pictures of water streaming into galleries. Buckets to cope with leaks from the roof have become as normal a part of the national collections as the works themselves. And yet, you, as Minister, do not think that there is a crisis. You’ve confirmed mechanical failures, and we’ve seen the consequences of this ignorance elsewhere, as I’ve mentioned countless times before, in Brazil, where repeated warnings fell on deaf years and the results were catastrophic: a fire that destroyed 92.5 per cent of their national collections—20 million objects.

And here in Wales, we’ve already had our own close call, with a fire breaking out at the national library a few years ago. So, you can understand, I hope, why we’re concerned to see this happening to National Museum Cardiff. Minister, what assurances can you provide that our national collections are safe? And how do Welsh Government plan to tackle the complete backlog of maintenance across all Amgueddfa Cymru sites and at our national library, not just in next year’s budget, but beyond next year's budget?

Heledd Fychan (Plaid Cymru, South Wales Central)

The people of Wales own these collections, not the museum, not the library, not the Government. It's on behalf of the people of Wales and future generations that I ask you to show that you understand how serious this situation is and that you have a plan to tackle this issue.

Jack Sargeant (Labour, Alyn and Deeside)

Diolch yn fawr, Heledd, for the supplementary question and the opportunity to address the matter today. Llywydd, the Member points to the importance of the collections to the people of Wales, and I couldn't agree any more. That's why I think, when we talk about the national museum, we are talking about an institution that is incredibly close to the hearts of many of us across the country. And in that vein, I have always believed that it is incredibly important, Presiding Officer, to do all that we can to inform ourselves of the facts, before we paint a wider picture to the public.

It was unfortunate that the Member was unable to join the spokespersons' briefing I arranged from the museum yesterday, before taking to the floor of the Senedd—[Interruption.]—before taking to the floor of the Senedd, talking about structural issues that put our collections at risk. I am glad you have now had the opportunity to have the spokespersons' briefing I arranged again today, to understand that situation.

Let me be clear, Presiding Officer, the museum is closed because of a mechanical issue, not a structural issue. Amgueddfa Cymru is working to resolve this issue as quickly as possible. I am in regular contact with the museum. The Member asked for assurances around the national collections. Both the chair and chief executive of Amgueddfa Cymru have assured me that the national collections in their care are safe. The repair team at Amgueddfa Cymru is working diligently to address this issue, and I'm grateful to them for that.

National Museum Cardiff is an almost 100-year-old building, and, as a result, is a complex building. The museum decided to close the building to ensure that the repairs could be undertaken as quickly as possible, with fewer people on site. The Member knows that, in 2024-25, we awarded Amgueddfa Cymru an additional £1.3 million for urgent works at National Museum Cardiff, which is progressing as planned. The Member points to wider issues that I am already aware of in terms of the Amgueddfa Cymru estate and maintaining its estate. That's why, Presiding Officer, we have acted to help address this, with significant investment needed to make those improvements across sites, including in the draft budget that the Member yesterday tried to vote down. Perhaps, Presiding Officer, the Member and her party will want to reflect on that position before the final budget, in terms of supporting the arts sector.

Rhys ab Owen (Plaid Cymru, South Wales Central)

The establishment of the national museum, at the beginning of the twentieth century, was an important milestone in the history of Wales as a nation. The museum and the University of Wales in Cardiff were among a number of institutions that secured Wales's status as a nation. Of course, unfortunately, the building is more than just the national museum, it's also the national gallery for Wales. So, Wales has no access at the moment to our national museum or our national gallery.

I'm sure you'll find out soon enough, if you haven't already, Gweinidog, with little Noah, how popular the museum is with children. The Sunday before the closure, my children were there for the third time to visit the dinosaurs—the dinosaurs are very, very popular at the museum. For many children in Wales, the national museum is the first experience of history, of art, and of culture.

Now, with everything happening in the culture scene, it's difficult not to feel that there's a decline. The simple question is—. And the national museum is very important on many levels. The memorial service for Baroness Randerson is due to be held there on Monday. Now, my simple question is, or two simple questions: why was it closed so suddenly, without any warning, and what is 'opening very soon'? Diolch yn fawr.

Jack Sargeant (Labour, Alyn and Deeside)

Diolch, Rhys. I'm grateful for those questions there. He's right to point to the importance of the institution to many, many people. I too had the pleasure of enjoying the dinosaurs at the beginning of this year, but not just the dinosaurs, Presiding Officer. I spent some time with my family there, and my son decided to pick the sign of the supporting the striking miners in the strike exhibition—I suspect just like his dad. So, I'm grateful to the Member for raising those points and the importance to his constituents and the people of Wales and beyond.

The Member pointed to two questions there. Firstly, why was the museum closed so suddenly? Well, mechanical issues do happen, and they happen suddenly on certain occasions—on certain occasions, I should know, Presiding Officer, as I sought to fix many of these types of issues in industry, and it happens all of the time.

Presiding Officer, I hear lots of comments from the Plaid Cymru benches, but I think this deserves the importance and respect of listening to an answer when it’s of this importance. Rhys ab Owen then asks about what is 'opening very soon'. Well, I’m hoping that, very soon, the National Museum Cardiff will be opening its doors to the public, so that he, his constituents and, no doubt, his family, will be able to enjoy the dinosaurs and all of the other things that the museum offers very soon.

Gareth Davies (Conservative, Vale of Clwyd)

I’m pleased to speak on this issue this afternoon. It’s a huge disappointment that the national museum in Cardiff has been forced to close, and I hope they are able to reopen their doors as soon as possible.

And I do have to side with you, Minister, there, in saying that it’s a shame that the Plaid Cymru spokesperson was unable to make themselves available for that call yesterday, because information and knowledge are key in these matters. And, I think, if those meetings and briefings would have been attended, then perhaps this debate in the Senedd might not have happened anyway, because I had the reassurances from the chief executive of Cardiff museum myself that all the efforts are being made to indeed reopen.

David Rees (Labour, Aberavon)

It's a topical question, so it's the question you want to focus on.

Gareth Davies (Conservative, Vale of Clwyd)

Absolutely. One of the questions that I raised in the briefing to the chief executive was indeed the funding, and whether some of those issues might have been negated by better or enhanced funding from the Welsh Government, or indeed other revenue streams that could be available to the museum, in terms of their ability to make money through the selling of things like merchandise, cafe bar facilities, that sort of thing, to enhance people’s experiences, but then also to generate another stream of income.

So, I’m just keen to get an answer from you, Minister, on how you’re going to work with the amgueddfa to ensure that they’ve got the resources that they need, indeed, to reopen their doors as soon as possible, and on what collaborative work you’re going to be doing with them to ensure that this doesn’t happen again, and that the artefacts and the collections can be safe for people now and for future generations in Wales to enjoy.

Jack Sargeant (Labour, Alyn and Deeside)

Well, I’m grateful, Gareth, for the questions and for the comments in support of the museum and, more widely, the estate of Amgueddfa Cymru. Presiding Officer, I’m grateful to the Member for finding time yesterday to have that briefing, and as I pointed out earlier, I am grateful to the Plaid spokesperson for taking the time today to be able to understand that situation.

The Member points to a number of things. He references funding and working in collaboration. Well, we’ll go on working in collaboration with Amgueddfa Cymru and the leadership there. I have already met with the chair and chief executive, and I’m receiving regular updates on this particular issue. But I’ll go on working in collaboration with them in the future.

In terms of funding for Amgueddfa Cymru, I mentioned earlier the £1.3 million in the 2024-25 budget for urgent works at National Museum Cardiff. There is more money in terms of capital investment in the draft budget, which all Members have the opportunity to support, Presiding Officer. Gareth then points to alternative opportunities to bring moneys into the museum and the institution. I think he referenced merchandise. Well, Llywydd, I took the opportunity to enter Amgueddfa Cymru’s shop on the way out after my visit with family a few weeks ago, and found myself buying a magnet for the fridge that supported the miners. Maybe I’ll get him one next time.

Delyth Jewell (Plaid Cymru, South Wales East)

Well, Amgueddfa Cymru, this building is more than a building, of course, but that building is fragile. So, I think that it is something that many members of the public will welcome, the fact that we’ve been able to have this discussion and this clarity on the floor of the Senedd. I think it has definitely been worth while to have this question today.

Could I press the Minister, please, on two issues? In terms of the clarity of funding beyond the next financial year, particularly given the fact that there is not clarity at the moment in terms of the situation with national insurance contributions, any further information he could give us now would be very useful. And furthermore, because it’s a place that is of such value to so many of us, the culture committee has recommended in the past, after receiving strong evidence on this, that there should be a cross-Government mission to ensure the protection of the national collections. I’m gratified to hear that the national collections were not endangered in this instance, but perhaps we could use this as another opportunity to ensure that, for the future, the responsibility is held across Government in terms of the financing for that, because they are of such value to the nation. Diolch yn fawr.

Jack Sargeant (Labour, Alyn and Deeside)

Diolch, Delyth, for those points. I too am grateful for the opportunity to discuss this important matter on the floor of the Chamber today in the way that we’ve just discussed. The Member pointed to the importance of the institution as well, and I couldn’t agree more.

I’ve already outlined the two particular issues in that question, Presiding Officer. On national insurance, I think the finance Secretary responded to those points in quite some detail yesterday during the budget debate. I don’t have anything further to add to what he said on the floor yesterday afternoon, other than to say, again, that when we do know more, Amgueddfa Cymru and all arm’s-length bodies will know as soon as we do.

On the cross-Government commitment to the estate and estates like Amgueddfa Cymru, the investment shows that commitment in the sector: the £1.3 million for urgent works, which is a Cabinet decision, and the additional moneys in the draft budget, which was a Cabinet decision.

I’m grateful to Delyth Jewell for again highlighting the fact that the collection in the care of National Museum Cardiff on Amgueddfa Cymru’s estate is safe. I just want to repeat that because of the importance of the collection to the people of Wales. I’m grateful for the opportunity to be able to confirm that this afternoon.

David Rees (Labour, Aberavon)

I thank the Minister. Before we move on to the final topical question—

David Rees (Labour, Aberavon)

—I have received a request for a point of order. Heledd Fychan.

Heledd Fychan (Plaid Cymru, South Wales Central)

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I would just like to clarify, since I’ve been named by both the Minister and Gareth Davies, that, yes, I did receive a request at 10:15 yesterday morning. The technical briefing was at midday, I was chairing the cross-party group on the arts and health—a cross-party group that you’d both be very welcome to attend in the future, it’s very relevant to your portfolios—and I did attend a technical briefing prior to this. I would have still submitted a topical question because I think it is pertinent. I was also advised that that technical briefing was confidential, which is why I did not reference it at the beginning of my contribution. I am grateful for that technical briefing, but I would appreciate, given the seriousness of the situation, that we could omit from petty political point-scoring on an issue that’s so integral. I would just like to clarify that for the record, that I take my role extremely seriously as spokesperson for culture.

David Rees (Labour, Aberavon)

Diolch, and it is now on the record.

David Rees (Labour, Aberavon)

The final topical question will be asked by Peredur Owen Griffiths.

Peredur Owen Griffiths (Plaid Cymru, South Wales East)

3. What steps is the Welsh Government taking following the publication of the cultural reviews of North Wales and Mid and West Wales Fire and Rescue Services? TQ1299

Jayne Bryant (Labour, Newport West)

Diolch, Peredur. I have met the chairs of both fire and rescue authorities and both chief fire officers. I have set out my expectation that clear and decisive action should be taken immediately to dismantle these damaging cultures and ensure staff feel safe and valued in their workplace.

Peredur Owen Griffiths (Plaid Cymru, South Wales East)

Thank you for that response.

Peredur Owen Griffiths (Plaid Cymru, South Wales East)

The reports published earlier into North Wales Fire and Rescue Service and Mid and West Wales Fire and Rescue Service are damning. As you have acknowledged in your statement, the reports found evidence of bullying, harassment, misogyny, discrimination, inappropriate management styles and promotion based on favouritism. It is absolutely shocking that 10 per cent of women in the mid and west Wales service have reported experiencing sexual harassment. In the north Wales fire service, 42 per cent of survey respondents reported personal experiences of bullying or harassment since June 2021. The corresponding figure for mid and west was even higher, at 47 per cent. This working environment, described by the FBU as one of fear and mistrust, is a poor reward for brave men and women who put their lives on the line for public safety.

I want to know what exactly the Welsh Government has been doing whilst these cultures developed within the fire brigades. For example, north Wales fire brigade published their objectives in their strategic equality action plan for 2020-24, where they said they will progress an inclusive culture where leaders and staff demonstrate their commitment to promoting equality and support for a fair and inclusive workforce. Clearly, that didn't happen. It appears that successive Labour Ministers with a responsibility for the fire service in Wales have not been successful in holding fire brigades to account and checking against the delivery of such objectives. If the Government had been successful, then a safer and happier working environment would have been developed for the dedicated men and women working in the fire brigades. Can you account for the lack of monitoring over the years and what are you doing to ensure that the same mistakes are not made under your watch?

Jayne Bryant (Labour, Newport West)

Diolch, Peredur. Firstly, I'd just like to put again on record my thanks to those people who came forward, those brave people who came forward and have spoken. It's very much appreciated and I think it's really important that we recognise those people who've come forward. As Peredur says, and as I said in the opening remarks and the statement that I've put out, we want all fire service staff to feel safe in their place of work. There is no place for toxic cultures in fire and rescue services in Wales or any other workplace.

I've spoken with the chairs of the FRAs and both CFOs to discuss how they plan to address the reports and findings. During those meetings, I've set out my very clear expectation about decisive action, and that this must be a priority to effect that cultural change. We'll continue to reflect on the findings and recommendations to determine how to take forward the necessary improvements that need to be made, in discussion with the leaders of those two services. Both CFOs have acknowledged and accepted the issues raised within their reports and have apologised to their staff.

We are developing plans to reform FRS governance using current legislation before the end of this Senedd term, and we're also planning to use primary legislation to make more substantive changes to FRS governance. I've already been in early discussions with key stakeholders through the fire and rescue social partnership forum, and I'll continue to work in social partnership on these matters.

Jenny Rathbone (Labour, Cardiff Central)

While there are some glimmers of hope—for example, the female chief officer of the north Wales fire and rescue service has had an impact on the numbers of females in operational roles there, and both senior managers and union leaders in north Wales noted that the social partnership duty arising from the Social Partnership and Public Procurement (Wales) Act 2023 has had a positive impact—it's going to take more than just urging the current leadership to do better. We now have three reviews all highlighting very similar problems that are not unique to Wales; they are also present in many, if not most, of the fire and rescue authorities in England as well.

It's good to know that you are planning changes within the current regulations, as well as primary legislation, but I feel that we really do need radical reform in line with our recommendations 5 and 6. I note that, in response to recommendation 6 that we wanted a White Paper that could then enable us to look at the shape of that radical reform in order to reflect it in party manifestos in advance of 2026, the Minister at the time was talking about a statement. I think it needs more than that, and I just wondered if, either now or at some future time, in the near future, you could provide a lot more information about exactly the timetable that we're looking at.

Jayne Bryant (Labour, Newport West)

Diolch, Jenny. I'd just like to say thanks to you once again, as Chair of the Equality and Social Justice Committee, and all of the members of the Equality and Social Justice Committee that have looked into this over a number of years. I put on record once again my thanks to the committee for that.

You highlighted in your opening question some of the work that has already gone on. You touched on the north Wales fire service and, as you mentioned, the CFO, in response to this report, has confirmed that she and her senior leadership team will be meticulously reviewing the report and turning recommendations into measurable actions, which includes setting up a confidential hotline and bringing in an external leadership development specialist.

Again, as you mentioned, sadly, this is not something that is unique to one fire service or to Wales. I think this has helped to shine a light on some of those issues that, unfortunately, transpire in services in other parts of the country. But it certainly has shone a light onto that.

On your point around the work that we do now, as I said, work is going on around the governance reform and what we need to see. That has very much been started at the social partnership forum, and we will be doing this in social partnership. I'm very happy, as soon as I'm able to, to make sure that the Senedd is kept up to date with the plans and the timetable for that proposed reform.

Sioned Williams (Plaid Cymru, South Wales West)

The reports we've seen today are truly shocking. They're devastating and completely unacceptable, but they're really not surprising. There is an issue of accountability here also, because staff who do such difficult and dangerous roles to keep us safe have suffered terribly. The Equality and Social Justice Committee report into the need to reform governance of the fire and rescue services—instigated, of course, by the Fenella Morris report, and the shocking findings on the culture of the South Wales Fire and Rescue Service—really demonstrated that the basic issue here is the inaction of the Welsh Government, over many years, to reform the governance of the Welsh fire and rescue services. What we see in these culture reviews are the consequences of that failure to deliver reform. The failure to get to grips with this matter earlier has really had this damaging effect on staff, yes, and also on public confidence.

It's appalling, really, that it took the efforts of ITV Wales news journalists to gather testimony from whistleblowers, and pressure from the FBU and Plaid Cymru and others, to get the Government to take the steps it finally took. We need to ensure better and more effective governance, separating the executive role from the scrutiny role of the authorities. This has been apparent for decades. Do you endorse that approach in these discussions that you're beginning to have? You failed to deliver on your former White Paper in 2018, and now we've got these truly shameful consequences. So, no more excuses. You say the work of reform is finally under way. So, how radical will it be, and how will management in these two fire services be held to account?

Jayne Bryant (Labour, Newport West)

Diolch, Sioned. I know, as a member of the Equality and Social Justice Committee, that this is something—again, with the Chair—that you've followed for a number of years, as other Members have here as well. It is absolutely unacceptable what those reports have found. As I said, we want all fire service staff to feel safe in the place of work; that's what we should expect. There is absolutely no place for that toxic culture in any fire and rescue service in Wales or, as I said, any other workplace.

I've had those discussions, and I've made very clear that I want to see and be aware of absolute action. We've had these reports, the reports have been published today. They're their reports that have been published, and we need to see action now, so I'll be following very closely the work that they're doing. And as I say, I've spoken to them and they've apologised, and they're very clear that they have action points to come out of this as well. But as you say, that's the short-term part. We also have this governance reform that we're very clear—. The key point is we have to get this absolutely right. Obviously, the committee's report feeds into that, but also that social partnership and the discussion that we're having at those meetings. This is very much at the forefront of my mind, what we can do in this Senedd term, as I say, and what potentially could happen in the future. But we do have to get this right, and I think that these reports, very sadly, are, to say the least, deeply depressing and worrying to see. But it is about getting this absolutely right, and sadly, this is not just a reflection on Wales, but this is something that we've seen and we're aware of that is happening across the UK and not just, sadly, in one place.

David Rees (Labour, Aberavon)

I thank the Cabinet Secretary.

5. 90-second Statements

David Rees (Labour, Aberavon)

Item 5 today is the 90-second statements. The first statement will be by Hannah Blythyn.

Hannah Blythyn (Labour, Delyn)

February marks LGBT+ History Month, an opportunity to reflect on how far we've come on LGBTQ+ rights and to celebrate the lives of LGBTQ+ people who, for too long and too often, have been hidden from our history. The theme for 2025 is activism and social change, a fitting focus to shine a spotlight on the activists that have been central to changing lives and legislation. They may not always have made the headlines, but will nearly always have been lifelines. In line with this year's theme, I look forward to hosting an event in the Senedd next week with Unite Wales, to both remember and to recognise the role activists have played in achieving social change, because not knowing our history risks our future. We cannot be complacent, as progress isn't inevitable.

The alarm is sounding around the world that history risks being repeated, and rights rolled back. But at the same time, it is right that this month we highlight the progress we have made, because much of that progress is part of our all-too-recent history. In my lifetime alone, we could be fired, we couldn't be mentioned in classrooms, we could be refused service and we could not marry the person we loved. So, this LGBT+ History Month, we pay tribute to the activists and the allies, the trailblazers and the history makers. Thank you for your activism. Thank you for being a part of changing and making history.

Joel James (Conservative, South Wales Central)

I'd like to take this opportunity to highlight that this week, 3 February to 9 February, is Children's Mental Health Week, and the theme this year is 'know yourself, grow yourself', which aims to equip and empower children and young people across Wales and the United Kingdom to embrace self-awareness and explore what it means for them. It's important now, more than ever, in this rapidly changing world, that young people get to know who they are, which can help them build resilience, grow and develop.

Sadly, new data released by the NSPCC shows that anxiety is the top mental health concern for children in Wales, and as a nation who has enshrined in law the health and well-being of future generations, we need to do everything that we can to remind children and young people that they are not alone.

Finally, Dirprwy Lywydd, I would like to say a huge 'thank you' to all those who work tirelessly in the mental health profession and in organisations such as the NSPCC, Place2Be, Childline and the Salvation Army for providing their ongoing and vital support to those who need it most. Thank you.

David Rees (Labour, Aberavon)

Thank you.

6. Debate on the Standards of Conduct Committee Report, 'Nineteenth report to the Sixth Senedd under Standing Order 22.9'

David Rees (Labour, Aberavon)

Item 6 is the debate on the Standards of Conduct Committee report, the 'Nineteenth report to the Sixth Senedd under Standing Order 22.9'. I call on the Chair of the committee to move the motion—Hannah Blythyn.

Hannah Blythyn (Labour, Delyn)

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. As the Chair of the Standards of Conduct Committee, I formally move the motion. The committee considered the report from the commissioner for standards in relation to a complaint made against Andrew R.T. Davies MS regarding failure to declare a relevant interest when asking an oral question in Plenary. The Standards of Conduct Committee gave the commissioner's report careful consideration, and our report sets out the committee's judgment that although we consider that the Member has failed to comply with Standing Order 13.8A, we do not consider that any further action is warranted. The facts relating to the complaint and the committee's reason for its recommendation are set out in full in the committee's report.

I'd like to take this opportunity to remind Members of the importance of declaring relevant interests before speaking, whether that is in Plenary or committee proceedings. Advice on declarations is readily available from the Table Office, and if in doubt, it is incumbent on Members to seek such advice before making contributions. In particular, Members should consider whether their interest is something that could be reasonably considered by anyone watching to be relevant, rather than assuming that people outside the Senedd are aware of their interest. This approach will help ensure continued transparency around Members' contributions.

I would also like to draw Members’s attention to the committee's ongoing work on the registration and declaration of interest. Part of this work will involve improving the details of the guidance available around the declaration of interest, and Members are encouraged to come to us with any further suggestions. The motion tabled invites the Senedd to endorse the committee's recommendations. Diolch.

Lee Waters (Labour, Llanelli)

Dirprwy Lywydd, I know, by convention, Members don't generally tend to speak on these reports, but I'm quite appalled that the Conservative benches are entirely empty this afternoon. The standards process in this place assumes a degree of shame when censured by the standards of conduct Member of our peers, that it'll be something that Members will reflect on and it'll make them think twice about their conduct in the future. We now have Andrew R.T. Davies being subject to a series of reports by the standards committee. Each time he does not attend the Chamber to take the judgment of his peers. Today all of his colleagues have joined him in boycotting this debate, and I think it does call into question the efficacy of the standards of conduct process in this Chamber if the shaming and the process of reflection is being so wilfully ignored and mocked by the opposition party in this Senedd.

David Rees (Labour, Aberavon)

I call on Hannah Blythyn to reply to the debate.

Hannah Blythyn (Labour, Delyn)

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I would remind Members that the committee is undertaking a package of reform at the moment where we will be considering changes to the standards of conduct and also the measures that underpin it as well, and we'll take on board any comments made in this place. Diolch.

David Rees (Labour, Aberavon)

The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? No. The motion is therefore agreed, in accordance with—

Lee Waters (Labour, Llanelli)

Objection.

David Rees (Labour, Aberavon)

You wish to object?

Lee Waters (Labour, Llanelli)

I do.

David Rees (Labour, Aberavon)

I will therefore defer voting under this item until voting time.

7. Debate on a Member's Legislative Proposal: A Bill on support for unpaid carers

David Rees (Labour, Aberavon)

Item 7 today is a debate on a Member's legislative proposal: a Bill on support for unpaid carers. I call on Sioned Williams to move the motion.

Sioned Williams (Plaid Cymru, South Wales West)

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. Why do we need to legislate to ensure better recognition of and support for unpaid carers? Well, the answer is simple, truth be told, because there are over 310,000 unpaid carers in Wales, and they do not receive the recognition and support that they need and that they deserve. And that recognition and support are crucial, because not to mention the immeasurable human value of the care that is provided, research shows that unpaid carers save the Welsh Government more than £10 billion every year. It would leave a financial black hole that would be very difficult to fill and would place additional pressure, of course, on public services that already do not have adequate funding to provide what is needed for our citizens.

Yes, there is support available to unpaid cares from the Welsh Government, local authorities and healthcare settings, and this, as my motion notes, is based on rights that have been outlined in the Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act 2014. But as I have mentioned more than once in this place, such as in a debate I put forward in the Senedd on the need to improve support for carers at the end of 2023, and as research noted in a number of reports by Carers Wales recently, and also in the ombudsman's findings in his report, 'Are we caring for our Carers?' last year, there can be no denying that there have been significant failings in terms of support for unpaid carers across Wales over a number of years, despite these rights being in place. Because although every carer in Wales has a legal right to a carer's needs assessment, Carers Wales's 'Track the Act' report showed that only between 0.3 per cent and 8 per cent of carers who need an assessment receive one.

The ombudsman’s report showed that only 2.8 per cent of carers living in the authorities surveyed by the ombudsman had their needs assessed, and only 1.5 per cent of carers were in receipt of a support package. These deficiencies are a familiar refrain, unfortunately. As far back as 2019, the Senedd’s Health, Social Care and Sport Committee's report on carers rights under the 2014 Act noted, and I quote:

'Given the lack of impact of the legislation to date and the scale of the futurechallenge, we believe that the Welsh Government needs to demonstrate strongernational leadership in support for carers.'

Sioned Williams (Plaid Cymru, South Wales West)

The committee recommended that the Welsh Government should prepare a clear action plan to tackle the failure to act highlighted in the inquiry. Unfortunately, the findings of the independent evaluation of the Act, commissioned by the Welsh Government, which were published in March 2023, as well as the ombudsman's inquiry and Carers Wales's 'Track the Act' report, demonstrate that the Welsh Government hasn't taken the necessary steps in the five years and more since the 2019 inquiry.

We cannot continue to fail to support unpaid carers like this. We must do more to bridge the gap—the clear gap—between the Act's rhetoric and the reality on the ground. So, that's the 'why'. I now want to talk about the 'how'.

The 2014 Act gave unpaid carers rights, to be administered by local authorities, encompassing access to information, advice, support, an assessment of needs and for these needs to be met through a package of support. Bearing in mind the pressures on our local authorities, the Welsh Government must show greater leadership by monitoring and assuring quality, to ensure that the rights given to carers in Welsh law are consistently provided. And legislation could guarantee this, as well as outline the crucial steps that are needed to achieve the aim.

A fundamental weakness highlighted in Carers Wales's 'Track the Act' report is the lack of information and understanding of the situation facing unpaid carers within local authorities, and the variation across Wales. The type of information gathered by local authorities about how they fulfilled their statutory requirements raised major questions about the consistency of these data—something, of course, that has led to delays and inadequate support.

The same inconsistencies between local authorities were highlighted in the ombudsman's report, which called for better, more consistent and comparable data to be gathered to enable improved analysis and to drive improvement. Imposing a statutory duty to gather and monitor data in a consistent manner would be a way of guiding local authorities to ensure that carers' rights are being consistently met and statutory commitments effectively discharged in all parts of Wales, putting an end to the current postcode lottery.

Standardising terminology and processes would also make the system easier, then, for unpaid carers to navigate, as caring responsibilities can cross county boundaries, and legislation that sets and enforces national expectations to ensure that the rights that every unpaid carer has are met in a consistent manner would encourage the sharing of data within regions. This would not come at a great cost either, but there is a need for a more robust framework and better leadership from the Welsh Government.

Finally, I'd like to turn to the part of the motion that mentions the creation of a duty to recognise unpaid carers as a priority group when designing and delivering every policy intervention in future. Providing unpaid care often impacts the health of the carers themselves. Carers are more likely to suffer long-term health conditions, are more likely to live in poverty, and hundreds of carers are forced to leave work every day due to the pressures of their caring commitments. Through recognising, therefore, their priceless value and the huge pressures that they shoulder, by treating them as a priority group at every level of policy decisions, there would be better interventions to mitigate these pressures that threaten their ability to care, and the economic and social costs, of course, of unemployment, illness and poverty.

Wales owes a great debt to unpaid carers, and we have a moral duty to give them greater recognition and support. Failure to do so only leads to additional costs and pressures for public services at every level. So, if you agree that this debt is one that must be honoured, the work of repaying it could begin with legislation that does just that, and the first step would be to support this legislative proposal.

Siân Gwenllian (Plaid Cymru, Arfon)

Thank you for the opportunity to participate in this debate. I agree entirely that the time has come to legislate in order to provide recognition and support for unpaid carers. Although support and some specific rights are available, the evidence is clear that a large majority of carers are unaware of this, and there is a risk that an increasing cohort of our population will be forgotten. There are great risks to that—social, well-being and health risks. A lack of data is also an issue, as is the lack of awareness of the enormous, crucial and valuable contribution made by informal carers to contemporary society.

Caring for others is an integral part of a civilized society, and is a natural reaction for parents, children, families, friends. Caring is a natural part of our lives, but the circumstances of that care can change, meaning that we need support. The support can come from employed domiciliary care workers the length and breadth of the country—carers who are so valuable but yet don’t get the status, the salary or the respect that they deserve and need. And I would like to pay tribute to them all. We, as a family, are extremely grateful for the support that my mother has been receiving for some weeks now from a team of domiciliary carers at a local level. These are professionals, and their people skills are invaluable, never mind the practical support that they provide.

Under the social services and well-being Act, an unpaid carer’s needs assessment is a legal right for all carers who look after someone who is disabled, ill, who has a mental health condition, or who is elderly. For around two years, I've been sharing my elderly mother’s care, but I wasn’t aware of the carer’s needs assessment until very recently.

As I mentioned, around a month ago, professional carers from the local authority started visiting my mother, and it was only in researching how best to meet my mother’s needs that I came across this right to a carer’s needs assessment. Clearly, therefore, we need to promote this far more, because the assessment can open the door to important sources of support for informal carers. After all, caring for the family carers is crucial in maintaining the care of the individual who requires care. But, as we’ve heard, only around 10 per cent—or perhaps even fewer now—of unpaid carers have had an assessment, and even fewer have a support package.

So, I’m entirely supportive of the intention put forward in this motion, and I strongly believe that it could lead to the change that we need. It could also promote collaboration between formal and informal carers, and I think that that too is crucially important and is something that's often forgotten. So, thank you.

Julie Morgan (Labour, Cardiff North)

I'm very pleased to be able to contribute to this debate today, and I’m pleased that Sioned Williams has brought this forward. Because, although the Welsh Government has, already, a duty to unpaid carers under the social services and well-being Act, I think this proposal is important, because it gives us the opportunity to highlight the incredible contribution that unpaid carers make and the need for us to give them as much support as possible. I've met many groups of unpaid carers, both individually and in groups. I've also had personal experience of caring, very similar to the experience that Siân Gwenllian has described, and I thought that she made some very important points in that contribution.

So, I do support the spirit of this legislation, but I do feel that we have made progress in terms of recognising unpaid carers, and that the Government has taken steps that have improved the situation of unpaid carers. I’m sure that the Minister, in her contribution, will be able to highlight what those steps are. But I particularly feel that the development of the short breaks scheme, which is administered by the Carers Trust, which celebrated its fiftieth anniversary here yesterday in the Senedd, is on track to deliver 30,000 additional short break opportunities by the end of March this year, and I think that that's what carers have told us all along, that they want breaks. And so the short breaks scheme I think has been a great step forward, as well as the carers support fund, which I think has been an absolute lifeline, we are told, to carers to access money in a time of financial crisis. And I remember somebody telling me that they'd taken a grant from the carers support fund and they were using it to pay for Christmas dinner, because otherwise they wouldn't have been able to have any Christmas dinner. And I'm very pleased that the Minister is extending that money for those particular projects.

I'm also very supportive of the Young Carers Festival, which takes place every year. I think that this is so important, because it recognises the huge job that young carers—young unpaid carers—do. Hundreds of young carers from across Wales gather together in Builth Wells, where they have three days of fun and also are able to share their experiences. And it does give a real opportunity to show the appreciation of what they do and recognition. So, I think that bringing forward this proposal does highlight the importance and the needs of carers.

And there is a lot that we are doing in Wales, but I absolutely agree that we need to do more. Sioned and Siân Gwenllian have highlighted the needs that are there. One point that I particularly wanted to make was about the introduction of the young carers ID card. This was introduced with Government money in order to enable young carers to have an ID card that enabled them to not have to continuously tell their story—everywhere they go, they have to explain the difficulties they have, who they have to look after, why they're late to school sometimes, why they have to pick up the medication—

David Rees (Labour, Aberavon)

You need to conclude now, please, Julie.

Julie Morgan (Labour, Cardiff North)

—and an ID card is absolutely great for that. But, of course, it's important that the local authorities issue those ID cards, and we've heard that there are many young carers who cannot get ID cards. So, I support this legislation and I'm glad to have the opportunity to say a few words about it.

Mabon ap Gwynfor (Plaid Cymru, Dwyfor Meirionnydd)

If there is one cohort of people in society that is ignored, undervalued and disregarded, it is unpaid carers. As a Christian, I always think of the ways that the world can better show love and compassion to fellow humans, and how to share that Christian message in practice, and nothing demonstrates the power of love more than the work that unpaid carers do every day. That is what love is. Not working for financial gain, nor for personal advantage or working out of any personal interest, but working out of love, often at their own expense—at the expense of their career, their health, their education, their well-being, and much more suffering because they love another person or persons so much that they give up many if not all of these things for the benefit of their loved ones.

Now, the one thing that is vital in terms of carers is the ability to access respite. The history of the successes of trade unions is clear to all, from delivering two salaried days off a week, restrictions on working hours, minimum pay and much more—all important steps, but totally irrelevant to this voluntary workforce caring for their loved ones. Their working week is not made up of five working days, seven hours a day, with 25 days of leave every year; those aren’t their terms and conditions. There are no rules to say that young people aged 16 cannot work more than eight hours a week for carers. But, again, there are over 20,000 young carers in Wales working diligently for their loved ones, without the support that they need, on top of their other duties and their education—children and young people sacrificing their childhoods and having to grow up far too soon. Where is their respite? There is no union for them. Thank goodness for organisations such as the Carers Trust Wales for their advocacy on their behalf.

I understand that there is a duty to provide respite to those carers who have received an assessment, but very few carers have been able to access such an assessment. As we’ve already heard, the numbers are very, very small, up to 8 per cent only. So, without an assessment, there is no duty to ensure that they receive respite, and, without respite, carers suffer burnout, they are exhausted and they become ill themselves; their own mental health and that of their loved ones suffers, and greater pressure is shouldered by social services and the health service. And, as a result of that, everyone suffers. The current system is not sustainable.

I referred to the fact that there is an estimate of how many carers receive an assessment. And this leads me to my final point, namely the total failure of this Government, across every policy area, truth be told, to gather clear data. How can resources be allocated and policies developed effectively without accurate data as a foundation for action? Sioned’s motion gets to these very foundations. Respecting our unpaid carers means responding to their needs, and the only way of doing this is by gathering the data and the core information to know what is happening on the ground. It is staggering that we are having to ask for legislation to enforce these basic steps, but that's where we are in Wales at present.

So, support the motion, and show the unpaid carers of Wales clearly that we take their well-being seriously.

David Rees (Labour, Aberavon)

I call on the Minister for Children and Social Care, Dawn Bowden.

Dawn Bowden (Labour, Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney)

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd, and can I thank Sioned Williams for tabling this motion, and Members who contributed to this very important debate this afternoon? Firstly, I want to go on record to thank all unpaid carers for the huge contributions and sacrifices that we know that they make in caring for their family members and friends, the very point that others in the debate have made today, and I also want to say how much I've appreciated the opportunities that I've had to meet and talk to many unpaid carers about their circumstances and support needs, and I very much welcome the opportunity today to set out our support for unpaid carers and how that is continuing and developing.

The motion today calls for a Bill to ensure recognition and support for unpaid carers and improved service provision. Now, this Government takes very seriously its responsibilities, and I'll outline the work that is already in progress. The social services and well-being Act has rightly been referenced by many contributors to the debate this afternoon, so it's important to say that the Act does already impose duties on local authorities and health boards to promote the well-being of carers. Local authorities have duties to provide information and advice, to undertake assessments of support needs, and to meet those support needs.

Mabon ap Gwynfor (Plaid Cymru, Dwyfor Meirionnydd)

Will you take an intervention? I accept that point, and they are expected to provide an assessment, but, as we've heard, only a small fraction get an assessment, so 90-plus per cent don't get that assessment and, therefore, they can't get the things that they are owed. So, how can you make sure that the rest of the carers get that assessment?

Dawn Bowden (Labour, Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney)

Right. I'm only a minute into my contribution, Mabon; I think it will become clear as we go through.