Senedd Cymru (Welsh Parliament), 15 January 2025

286 contributions from 37 members. The official report.

1. Questions to the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Planning

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

Good afternoon and welcome to this afternoon's Plenary meeting. The first item on our agenda this afternoon is questions to the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Planning, and the first question is from Natasha Asghar.

Natasha Asghar (Conservative, South Wales East)

Thank you so much, Presiding Officer. Will the Cabinet Secretary make a statement on the provision of GP services in Blaenau Gwent? I do apologise. My apologies—so sorry, Presiding Officer. My apologies.

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

You've jumped three quarters of an hour there. [Laughter.]

Natasha Asghar (Conservative, South Wales East)

1. What action is the Welsh Government taking to improve the economy in South Wales East? OQ62122

Natasha Asghar (Conservative, South Wales East)

Got there in the end.

Rebecca Evans (Labour, Gower)

We continue to work with local authorities across the Cardiff capital region to increase economic prosperity. Our regional economic framework for south-east Wales has identified the development of key growth clusters as a priority, alongside our investment in infrastructure supporting the economic mission.

Natasha Asghar (Conservative, South Wales East)

Thank you so much, Cabinet Secretary. Last week, I had the pleasure of returning to Le Pub, a live music venue that celebrated its thirty-third year in the heart of Newport, and somewhere I remember visiting in my late teens growing up in the city. Le Pub has long been considered a musical institution, with artists and bands from across Wales and beyond showcasing their talents. The venue benefited by becoming part of the Music Venue Properties’ expanding portfolio, but, more importantly, has received £0.25 million grant through the then Conservative UK Government’s community ownership fund. Will the Cabinet Secretary join me in welcoming the boost that the community ownership fund has provided to Newport, particularly the night-time economy, in safeguarding this much-loved venue?

Rebecca Evans (Labour, Gower)

I’m very grateful for the question this afternoon, and I am aware that it is a much-loved venue locally. I know that my colleague Jack Sargeant is really passionate about the Creative Wales fund, which has also provided over £10 million of funding to support music spaces, which includes grass-roots music venues across Wales. I know that the support that we’ve also been seeking to provide through Business Wales, in terms of allowing those businesses to become more resilient for the future, has also been well received. But I would join Natasha Asghar in really recognising how these venues are very much at the heart of our communities and support our vibrant arts economy in Wales.

Alun Davies (Labour, Blaenau Gwent)

The Minister will be aware that the Halton group has recently invested in Rhyd y Blew in Ebbw Vale, opening a new facility there, investing in Blaenau Gwent, because of the investments made, of course, by the Welsh Government both in terms of infrastructure, in terms of business units, and in terms of the A465 dualling project. There is now a great deal of industrial interest in Blaenau Gwent as a consequence of the Welsh Government’s investment. What is important for us now in the borough is that we see more investment in business units and the development of the infrastructure that can then build upon the investments that have already been made. I’d like to invite the Minister to Blaenau Gwent to discuss with us how we can continue this successful investment that really is transforming the industrial and business environment in the borough.

Rebecca Evans (Labour, Gower)

I’m very grateful for the question there, and particularly the recognition of the work that the Welsh Government’s been doing to invest in business premises. It is part of our considerable offer that we make available to businesses, both those that are grown here in Wales and also our offer to international investors as well, alongside, of course, the work that we do to ensure that they have the skills available to them when they arrive and that supportive ecosystem for business. I’m delighted that Halton Flamgard are our first tenant at the new Rhyd y Blew site that we’ve invested in. That was an £8.9 million investment on the part of the Welsh Government. It’s a state-of-the-art facility, a low-carbon facility, offering 52,000 sq ft of space for businesses, and we look forward to welcoming other businesses to that space as well. Alun Davies has previously invited me to Blaenau Gwent, and I’ve been pleased to take up that invitation, and I do know that there is a date in the diary in the coming weeks and I very much look forward to it.

Russell George (Conservative, Montgomeryshire)

2. What involvement did the Welsh Government have with the National Electricity System Operator about ensuring that its 'Beyond 2030' report reflects the needs of Wales? OQ62088

Rebecca Evans (Labour, Gower)

The National Energy System Operator produced its 'Beyond 2030' report to deliver the UK Government’s commitment to connect 50 GW of offshore wind by 2030. NESO worked directly with the Welsh Government to understand our policies and our spatial plans so that any necessary infrastructure is developed, taking consideration of environmental and social impacts.

Russell George (Conservative, Montgomeryshire)

Thank you for your answer, Cabinet Secretary. The NGET have recommended the construction, of course, of a new high-voltage onshore connection between north Wales and south Wales. I wonder if you can provide any details on when we can expect further details on this proposal and when we can expect details of what route that may take, and, also, how communities across Wales, particularly in my own constituency, will be consulted on those proposals. And further to that, as well, you'll be aware of Green GEN Cymru's proposals for a connection project in mid Wales, so I'm also looking for your assessment of how those two projects connect, if they do at all, with each other. And, finally, Senedd Members this morning received an e-mail from the National Energy System Operator in regard to changes about grid connections. I don't know whether you've had time, or if the Welsh Government had advance notice of that particular communication this morning, but any assessment that you've made on that we'd be grateful for as well, if you've had time to review that proposal.

Rebecca Evans (Labour, Gower)

I'm very grateful for those questions. I was really pleased to be able to speak at the Wales launch of NESO towards the end of last year, and also to meet with them directly to hear about their plans in relation to 'Beyond 2030'. As colleagues know, it does set out the need for an array of new overhead and undersea cables, largely in Scotland and England. I think Wales is the least impacted in terms of the proposals, but, where we might potentially be impacted, we are taking that very, very seriously. In my meetings with both NESO and the National Grid electricity transmission department, I was very clear about the need to make sure that any plans take into account Wales's need, and, of course, we have the policy work ongoing at the moment in respect of the independent group that is advising us on things, including the undergrounding of cables. So, just to reassure colleagues, I was very clear in those conversations about the need to ensure that what is provided meets needs, but also meets the needs of a community in the wider sense as well, because I am aware of the concerns and the sensitivities in this space.

Also, the reference was made to Green GEN Cymru. So, our approach, really, from the Welsh Government's perspective, would be that National Grid and other partners working in that space should be taking a strategic approach to this, recognising the potential for future offshore wind coming online—you heard the statement I made on that recently as well—rather than responding to the needs of individual developers. I think that kind of wider strategic approach is important. The planning process is designed to consider whether any specific developments are appropriate and also meet our policy requirements here in Wales. Final planning decisions will be made by Welsh Ministers, so I can't comment on the individual developments that have been referred to in relation to the Green GEN Cymru plans. But we would expect developers to involve people in the projects they are developing and to listen to and act on the concerns that are raised with them.

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

Questions now from the party spokespeople. The Conservative spokesperson, Samuel Kurtz.

Samuel Kurtz (Conservative, Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire)

Diolch, Llywydd. Cabinet Secretary, there have been some really troubling economic figures in the last few weeks, following a crisis made in Downing Street. The Labour Chancellor talks about economic growth, but Labour's track record here in Wales is to preside over a woefully underperforming economy. On productivity, a cornerstone of economic success, Wales is 17 per cent below the UK average, with three of the 10 least productive regions in the UK, and none in the top 10. This is a long-standing issue and, under Labour's failed leadership in Wales, little progress has been made. So, after 25 years of Labour control, why does Wales remain so far behind the rest of the UK on productivity, and what specific steps are you taking to address this failure?

Rebecca Evans (Labour, Gower)

I note the comments in relation to the UK Government and the challenging overall economic picture. But we all—we all on this bench—wish that the last 14 years hadn't happened with the Conservative Government, but just wishing it away isn't going to change the impact of the choices of that UK Government. The thought that we can turn this thing around in six months is for the birds. There are huge challenges facing the UK Government, but the UK Government is now working on an industrial strategy. We've had 14 years without any kind of strategy from the UK Government in terms of industry. I've been really pleased to work with the UK Government to explore those priority sectors, and I was really pleased that the UK Government has identified sectors where Wales actually has a lot to offer and where we are already ahead of the pack—compound semiconductors, for example, our creative industries, and advanced manufacturing here in Wales. All of those things are areas where we’re already performing well, and we look forward to working with the UK Government, through their industrial strategy and the National Wealth Fund, to ensure that we have even further investment in those important industries.

Samuel Kurtz (Conservative, Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire)

Isn’t it ironic, then, that, in that 14 years that you criticise under a Conservative Government, 800 new jobs were created every day—jobs paying taxes, taxes funding the public services that we all hold dear? And you’re right: productivity won’t be solved without innovation and ambition. Artificial intelligence is a transformative technology that could add £47 billion to the UK economy. Yet, I’m sorry, but there’s little to show of a coherent strategy from the Welsh Government when it comes to AI. AI isn’t the future; it’s now. The Welsh Government appears to be lagging behind, leaving businesses without the support they need to capitalise on this opportunity. So, why has the Welsh Government failed to prioritise AI specifically in its annual draft budget for this year? And what steps will you take to raise AI up the list of priorities of this Welsh Government?

Rebecca Evans (Labour, Gower)

Well, obviously, I would completely disagree with that assessment of the support that we’ve been providing to AI. At the heart of the UK Government's announcement was the intention of Vantage to invest hugely here in the UK, and most of that investment will be coming to Wales, because Vantage already has a really strong foothold here in Wales. I’ve met with them a couple of times already since I’ve been in post, hearing about the amazing work that they’re doing in Imperial Park in Newport. So, this is already happening here in Wales. We have data centres already there to provide the support that we need to have that growing AI industry. And, of course, we’ve got the Centre for Digital Public Services—that’s looking at AI and the ways in which we can transform public services here in Wales, using that technology. It’s already happening here in Wales and we’re really pleased that this UK Government is also shining a spotlight on it.

Colleagues will also be aware that I’ve announced a number of short-term reviews, looking at things that are critical to the economy here in Wales. One, of course, is in relation to floating offshore wind, another in terms of green jobs, and another, small and medium-sized enterprise productivity. But the fourth is specifically in relation to AI, and that’s an area that we've also been exploring through the social partnership council as well to ensure that, when we do adopt AI, we do so in an ethical way.

Samuel Kurtz (Conservative, Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire)

It's not about when we adopt it; it’s already being adopted, and this Government is behind the curve on that. And you mentioned the Prime Minister’s announcement on AI earlier this month—ironic, then, that, back in August, he cut AI funding by £1.3 billion. He’s playing catch-up. And similarly, Labour inherited an economy with 2 per cent inflation and the fastest growth in the G7, and yet what they’ve managed to do—[Interruption.] What Labour have managed to do is grind growth to a halt, see business confidence fall through the floor, inflation rise, and a Chancellor hanging on to her job by her fingertips. The economy, ironically, would be a in a better place had Labour done absolutely nothing in the budget. At least growth would have continued and not reversed, which is what we’ve seen. So, how does this Government intend to shield the Welsh economy from the damage inflicted by its colleagues in London, given Labour’s track record on the economy in Wales, which sees us—and I know it’s difficult for former First Ministers and former Cabinet Members to hear—[Interruption.] I know it’s difficult for them to hear, but the truth is that Wales has the highest level of unemployment and the lowest annual wages of anywhere in the United Kingdom. How are you protecting the Welsh economy from UK Labour’s failures?

Rebecca Evans (Labour, Gower)

Well, no-one is buying what the opposition spokesperson is selling in his remarks this afternoon. The fact of the matter is that the previous UK Government crashed the economy and left a massive hole in the public finances. [Interruption.] The current UK Government now has to clean up that mess—

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

I need to hear the Cabinet Secretary, even if the person who asked the question isn't interested in the answer. And I don't need to be cheer-led from the backbenches of the Labour Party either. So, can we hear the Cabinet Secretary in some silence and listen to her answer, please?

Rebecca Evans (Labour, Gower)

Just to conclude, really, the current UK Government was left with a very difficult set of circumstances, which it is trying to work through. And we all know the state of the public finances that the current UK Government was presented with. I think they’ve had to make a series of really difficult decisions that no-one would have wanted to have to be in a position to make. But, my goodness, I am really glad that we've got a Labour Government making those tough choices on behalf of us all.

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Heledd Fychan.

Heledd Fychan (Plaid Cymru, South Wales Central)

Thank you, Llywydd. Last week, the First Minister told this Chamber, and I quote, that the culture and arts sector in Wales is ‘alive and well’. In the same week, we saw an announcement from Michael Sheen that he is personally going to fund a new national theatre company that will produce theatre through the medium of English. As a Member from your backbenches said following the announcement, and I quote again,

Heledd Fychan (Plaid Cymru, South Wales Central)

'It's also one hell of a reflection on the Welsh Govt and how it supports and sustains our arts and culture.'

Heledd Fychan (Plaid Cymru, South Wales Central)

So, as the Minister responsible for this sector, what is your assessment of the state of the sector? And do you agree with Eluned Morgan or with Michael Sheen?

Jack Sargeant (Labour, Alyn and Deeside)

Well, diolch yn fawr, Heledd, for that question. I think the First Minister is absolutely right, and we’re proud to support the arts and culture sector in Wales. We should be proud of the nation’s culture. When it comes to Michael Sheen, I think it’s absolutely fantastic; he’s a great ambassador for Wales. I would be delighted to have a conversation about his plans for the Welsh national theatre and the announcement around that. On National Theatre Wales and the discussions around what the future was for them, they had those directly with the Arts Council of Wales. They were provided money by the Arts Council of Wales. And I would encourage Michael Sheen and those in the Welsh national theatre to continue conversations with the Arts Council of Wales to see what the future is like when it comes to the money available.

And when it comes to money available in the arts sector, to make sure that it is very much alive and well, let’s just look at in-year funding, Llywydd: £5 million revenue announced additionally in September; £3.7 million capital in July; and the Arts Council of Wales received an additional £1 million in December, which went straight back out into the sector. And there’s another opportunity, isn’t there, Presiding Officer, with the first budget that we set in front of the Senedd following a UK Labour Government? There is an opportunity for us all to increase the funding for the arts in Cymru.

Heledd Fychan (Plaid Cymru, South Wales Central)

But it’s not alive and well as a sector, is it, Minister? You should know this as the Minister with responsibility, because obviously Michael Sheen isn’t alone in voicing his concerns. I’m sure you’ve read the report by the culture committee, published last week, highlighting cuts to the culture and sports budgets, the impact that’s been on these sectors and it’s left our

Heledd Fychan (Plaid Cymru, South Wales Central)

'Land of bards and singers, famous men of renown'

Heledd Fychan (Plaid Cymru, South Wales Central)

behind most European countries in terms of arts and sports funding. And let’s be clear, this isn’t a one-off situation over one year; it’s been a problem for over a decade. Last year, Michael Sheen stated,

'We are not going to let our country die, are we. We are not going to let it culturally die and wither on the vine'.

Three days ago, Noel Mooney, chief executive of the Football Association of Wales stated,

'This race to the bottom & lack of vision, desire and ability needs to stop today. Have ambition, be innovative, have courage, make it happen and success will come. Please. For Wales.'

So, Minister, how are you going to right the wrongs of the past? And do you regret the position these crucial sectors now find themselves in?

Jack Sargeant (Labour, Alyn and Deeside)

Well, Presiding Officer, I think, it’s important isn‘t it to reflect on the context where all of these decisions have been made and where we are today. We talk about a decade ago, well, we’ve all endured 14 years of a Conservative Government and their policies and austerity. [Interruption.] They moan, but it’s the truth; they moan, but it’s the truth. A COVID pandemic, Presiding Officer, the cost of living, inflationary pressures, the combination of all of these things could be described as the perfect storm, and, despite all of that, we still offered support to the sector. I mentioned in my previous answer the additional in-year funding, I mentioned the opportunity in front of us.

When it comes to the committee’s report, I’m very grateful to the committee and the Chair of the committee for undertaking that report, and I’m really keen to take the recommendations in that report seriously and will be considering them in that way. The points around tables, well, the difficulty is there is no like-for-like comparison when it comes to European countries on this. The report itself—and the Member sat, I think, on the committee—the report itself includes that very caveat, that there are different ways of calculating figures. Now, if Members want to talk the sector down, I won’t be in that space at all. I’m very proud of what the sector has achieved during these difficult times. It's with that passion that we will see a better future for the sector. This budget coming is a step in the right direction, with an uplift for the arts and culture and sport sectors in Wales. We should all consider that when we put in our vote for the budget in the coming weeks.

Heledd Fychan (Plaid Cymru, South Wales Central)

What culture has achieved is despite of Welsh Government. They could achieve so much more with a Government behind that sector. Let's be clear on that. And it doesn't—. If you look at the situation, Scotland was in a similar position in terms of having to suffer from the Tories and austerity, but they prioritised culture and the arts. So, that doesn't—. It's not a sustainable argument. It's about where you prioritise it.

And I'd like to ask you about one other element, about the devolution of broadcasting—

Heledd Fychan (Plaid Cymru, South Wales Central)

—because, last week, we heard the news that Capital Cymru is bringing all of its Welsh programmes to an end. These changes are possible following the introduction of the new media Act last October, which eradicates any requirements in terms of stations' formats. You will be aware of the work done through the co-operation agreement, that we want to see the devolution of broadcasting. In response to a question from Rhun ap Iorwerth in a committee at the end of November, you weren't clear as to how this work would be progressed, stating:

Heledd Fychan (Plaid Cymru, South Wales Central)

'I don't think I'm saying that I'm against the devolution of broadcasting. I think I'm saying I'd like to do the piece of work around that to form my view and to see where we take this conversation next.'

Heledd Fychan (Plaid Cymru, South Wales Central)

So, have you now decided whether you support the devolution of broadcasting, and if so, when can we expect to see movement in terms of the work on this matter being progressed, because we cannot afford to wait a second longer?

Jack Sargeant (Labour, Alyn and Deeside)

Diolch, Heledd, for that. I'll just take the first point first, on the involvement of Government. Well, I'm sure the Member would be very pleased about the announcement and story that was out very recently, Presiding Officer, that because of money announced additionally this year in December—£1 million to the Arts Council of Wales—£210,000 found its way to Blackwood Miners' Institute, an iconic venue, which is now saved. So, the Welsh Government does support the industry, and it does work alongside the industry.

I'm grateful to the Member for raising the situation around broadcasting in Wales. I too was very disappointed by Global's decision to end Capital Cymru's Welsh language programming. We very much recognise the importance of Welsh language programming on radio and all of the things that that offers to the Welsh language and to new learners, and the importance it places on audiences across Cymru.

While I'm very clear on broadcasting and the position of that, broadcasting is of course, as the Member points out, a reserved matter. I'm very open to exploring the options around broadcasting and devolution around this. I will form my view. I'm still considering all of those options. You'll be clear—[Interruption.] The Member says, 'Come on'; there are lots of things that we've had to act on and we've delivered on, Presiding Officer. I'll form that view. Where I'm very clear is that we will continue to work with the UK Government, because the current situation isn't fit for purpose, and I will continue these conversations and look forward to the conversation I'll have with the Member on this issue as well.

Altaf Hussain (Conservative, South Wales West)

3. Will the Cabinet Secretary make a statement on the Welsh Government's involvement with the Steel Council and the impact it will have on the economy of South Wales West? OQ62109

Rebecca Evans (Labour, Gower)

Yes. I was pleased to attend the Steel Council meeting on 7 January and I look forward to working with the council on the development of the UK steel strategy.

Altaf Hussain (Conservative, South Wales West)

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. While I welcome it, the Steel Council must not become yet another talking shop, a task-and-not-finish group. I welcome the move to make a plan for the steel sector and I hope that the Steel Council can deliver. It is off to a shaky start, however, as British Steel is likely to abandon plans to return to Teesside. Cabinet Secretary, how will the Welsh Government make the case for South Wales West? Are you pushing the Steel and Metals Institute, given that the Steel Council is co-chaired by the head of the Materials Processing Institute? More importantly, Cabinet Secretary, how much of the £2.5 billion will be coming to us in Wales?

Rebecca Evans (Labour, Gower)

Thank you very much for the question. And I just really want to emphasise how serious the Steel Council is and how seriously it takes its work. It's made up of leaders from within the steel sector, industry experts, trade unions, trade associations and devolved Governments, and its purpose is to come together and to work with the UK Government on the development of that steel strategy. So, it is absolutely a group that has a focused end point in terms of developing the strategy, but delivering the strategy, then, will be what really matters.

There are a couple of key points that I wanted to be able to land at that first Steel Council meeting, and one of those was about the importance of the offer that we have right here in Swansea University in respect of the expertise that it has in steel and in metals more widely. So, I made the important point about that expertise being available to the Steel Council and the importance of engaging with that expertise. And the other key point I really wanted to stress was the importance of not just considering the immediate challenges facing the steel industry here in the UK and in Wales, but actually having that eye on the longer term and the opportunities to ensure that, for example, when we're considering the work that we're doing on offshore wind—and I made a statement on that last week—that we're considering our investments in steel in the space of ensuring that that steel, then, is of the quality required to support the economic opportunities that we have ahead of us. So, I thought that those were two really key points to land at that meeting.

I will say, though, that the tone of the meeting was extremely constructive and there was huge commitment from everybody involved in that meeting to work together towards a strategy that can deliver for us here in Wales. And we don't yet have the detail of how the UK Government's funding that has been announced in its entirety will support the delivery of that strategy, but I'm sure that further information will be available in due course.

Luke Fletcher (Plaid Cymru, South Wales West)

I take the point that the Cabinet Secretary made around needing to consider where we make that investment in steel here in south Wales, but we already know what's coming down the line, don't we? We have massive opportunities and you alluded to those with offshore wind. We know what we need to do to take advantage of that. Firstly, we need a plate steel mill in Port Talbot; we need to invest in the capacity of the ports around manufacturing and assembly; and we need to invest in the skills. So, we need to move beyond, now, considering and move to delivery. We're already behind the curve with ports in France, the Netherlands and Spain already making those investments. So, I would come back to the point that Altaf made around that pot of money that the UK Government said would be available for steel. How do we push forward in getting access to that funding now, because right now is when we need to be making those investments? If we don't make those investments, then we will miss all of that opportunity that is coming down the line with offshore wind, because other countries are taking advantage of that right now.

Rebecca Evans (Labour, Gower)

I really enjoyed the discussions that we had in relation to the offshore wind statement that I made last week. And, in that, I was able to set out the purpose of the task and finish group. It isn't about having those discussions about how important this all is and what the opportunities are, it's about how we actually deliver, then, and develop the response to those opportunities.

So, the group, which I chaired the first meeting of last week, is already now moving forward with that plan to set out the timeline of who needs to do what and when to ensure that we're able to maximise the response to the opportunities in the Celtic sea and elsewhere in Wales. So, that group is already up and running. It's going to be meeting very regularly with a view to coming forward with its recommendations and its action plan as we move towards the next round of contracts for difference in the spring. So, it's a very, very quick-moving piece of work, but will hopefully then give all partners the confidence to move ahead with the developments and investments that they need to make.

Some of this is going to be working with the UK Government in respect of the funding that it can provide, but actually there's a lot more that needs to be done in terms of private investment as well. I know that the ports will be interested in the investment that they can make; industry will be interested in the investment that it can make. We, of course, will be interested in our investments through the skills piece as well. So, it's not all about looking to that particular fund of money, but actually maximising what all partners can be bringing to that table.

Tom Giffard (Conservative, South Wales West)

4. What assessment has the Welsh Government made of how the UK Government's economic policies are benefiting the Welsh economy? OQ62106

Rebecca Evans (Labour, Gower)

The Welsh Labour Government is working in partnership with the UK Labour Government, taking bold action to build a stronger, fairer, greener Welsh economy. This collaborative approach will ensure that we get the growth that we need to put more money into people’s pockets.

Tom Giffard (Conservative, South Wales West)

Thank you very much, Cabinet Secretary, for that nice attempt of a justification of the economic road we're heading down under the UK Labour Government. Not only are taxes on the rise for people right across Wales, including thousands of business owners, but so are energy bills. It was promised before the election that they would go down, and now we're seeing them go in the other direction. Now we've seen the economy stagnating, and that's despite the inheritance that you had from the UK Conservative Government of the fastest-growing economy in the G7. The pound has fallen to the lowest level in over a year and UK borrowing costs are at their highest level for 16 years. The 30-year gilt yield is at its highest level in 27 years. The former Labour Minister Lee Waters famously said, and I quote,

'we don’t really know what we’re doing on the economy.'

Was he referring to the UK Labour Party as well as the Welsh Government?

Rebecca Evans (Labour, Gower)

As I mentioned in response to your colleague earlier, we just can't wish away the last 14 years. It will inevitably have an impact, and the current UK Government is dealing with the mess that it was left with. I'm more interested in this space in terms of how we can use our levers to support growth here in Wales, which is why we've been working to identify those priority sectors that have the strongest potential for growth here in Wales, but then also considering how we bring down energy bills in future and how we go about ensuring that there is energy security.

Colleagues will be familiar with the work that we've done recently, announcing £10 million of grant funding through Ynni Cymru for 32 projects here in Wales. Those projects go to businesses, to organisations and the public sector here in Wales, and part of that is about reducing the energy bills and the energy costs for those businesses and organisations. So, we will use the levers that we have, and we will work collaboratively with the UK Government in the very difficult job that it's facing.

Carolyn Thomas (Labour, North Wales)

Under the previous UK Government, we saw a 40 per cent reduction in public sector jobs. Each council employs approximately 6,000 people; that's a lot of jobs. The biggest employer in Wales is the public sector. I am pleased to see now we have a UK Government that appreciates the benefit of investing in the public sector and passports money to the Welsh Government to pay for public sector pay rises as well. There is capital to invest in construction of houses, hospitals and our highways as well, finally—thank goodness for that. So, Cabinet Secretary, do you agree with me that investing in our public sector just as the UK Government has done now this year is a welcome policy for the people of Wales and for the Welsh Government?

Rebecca Evans (Labour, Gower)

I absolutely do. Investing in our public sector is so important to address the challenges that colleagues bring to this Chamber week after week. When we look at the investment that we're making in health, a record investment into the health service, and of course protecting local government as far as we've been able to, we've always prioritised public services here in Wales, and our local government colleagues I'm sure will recognise the way that we've sought to protect them through the most difficult times as well.

None of the work that we've been able to do in terms of public sector pay would have been possible without this UK Government. I'm really excited by the capital increase to our budget as well. The capital that we've had has just been so insufficient to meet our needs in recent years. That, I think, is really positive. And of course, it should be a welcome boost to the public sector as well, because that capital money is going to go into investing in projects, and people will see those coming out of the ground in their communities as well.

So, I think that despite the doom and gloom from our colleagues on the Conservative benches, actually, there is a lot to be positive about, especially in terms of our largest settlement since devolution. And of course, if colleagues want to support the work that we're doing in terms of public sector pay, in terms of supporting public services, then of course, they will have the opportunity as we move through the budget process.

Vaughan Gething (Labour, Cardiff South and Penarth)

5. Will the Cabinet Secretary make a statement on the potential for increased investment in the life sciences in Wales? OQ62104

Rebecca Evans (Labour, Gower)

The life sciences sector in Wales is scaling at pace, making it one of our most dynamic growth sectors. It currently turns over more than £2.85 billion annually. We are working with the UK Government to secure additional funding for the sector, alongside our engagement on its industrial strategy.

Vaughan Gething (Labour, Cardiff South and Penarth)

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. As you point out, Wales already punches above our weight in life sciences, with, as you say, a sector generating over £2.8 billion of value for the Welsh economy, and employing well over 12,500 people. We're recognised internationally here in Wales, but rarely talk about how good we are in this place. The good news is that there is potential for even more. TrakCel in my constituency is just one example of a business with the potential to grow further with, again, international recognition. The Cardiff Edge life sciences park could generate even greater value and more jobs, especially if metro transport with the new Velindre is delivered. Cabinet Secretary, can you confirm your own expectations for growth in the life sciences sector here in Wales, and have you discussed the role that this sector could play in the international Wales investment summit that the First Minister has confirmed will take place later this year?

Rebecca Evans (Labour, Gower)

I'm very grateful for the question and the opportunity, again, to highlight one of the shining stars, I think, in our Welsh economy. The life sciences sector, as well as employing thousands of people, as we've just heard, saw some significant growth amongst its 319 businesses in Wales. Of course, they range from small SMEs doing incredible, innovative things, right through to large blue-chip companies. The approximate turnover, which I referred to in my original answer, of £2.85 billion is actually an increase of 8.6 per cent on the year before, and I'm sure that we can continue to see encouraging growth in that sector.

Clearly, the UK Government's industrial strategy gives us the opportunity, again, to shine a light on the life sciences sector as one that has one of the greatest potentials for growth. Absolutely, I have had those conversations with the First Minister about how the forthcoming investment summit can offer further opportunities to showcase what's available here in Wales, our incredible expertise, to that international audience to generate further growth and further investment in the sector.

Cefin Campbell (Plaid Cymru, Mid and West Wales)

6. How is the Welsh Government working to ensure that communities in Mid and West Wales benefit from offshore renewables? OQ62118

Rebecca Evans (Labour, Gower)

This week, I chaired the first meeting of the offshore wind task and finish group with leaders from across industry and academia to develop a clear action plan and timeline to ensure communities across Wales benefit from the investment in offshore renewables.

Cefin Campbell (Plaid Cymru, Mid and West Wales)

Thank you very much. When you announced last week your intention to establish the task and finish group on offshore wind energy, you outlined a range of economic objectives that the Welsh Government hopes that schemes such as this, in the Irish sea particularly, will deliver for Wales. I look forward to hearing about and scrutinising the work of that particular group. But I do have to ask one fundamental question: how can we as a nation ensure the greatest possible economic benefit from offshore wind if we don't have the powers to deliver this? I'm talking about powers over the Crown Estate, of course. The devolution of these powers, as has happened in Scotland, would not only guarantee that we benefit from our natural resources, but it would also give us the powers to place specific terms on things such as procurement and supply chains, which would add value to these developments. Can I ask, therefore, whether options for the devolution of the Crown Estate will be part of the remit of the task and finish group that you have established, and if not, why not?

Rebecca Evans (Labour, Gower)

I'm not sure if we need to be tasking the task and finish group to explore this particular issue, because the Welsh Government's position, I think, is entirely clear on this in terms of seeking the devolution of the Crown Estate. Many of us share that view that there are missed opportunities stemming from the objective of the Crown Estate to maximise revenues for the UK Exchequer. We might take a different view in terms of how we maximise revenues, but also not just being about revenues in and of themselves; actually, we would want to have those conversations about the social, economic and environmental benefits that can be brought forward as well. I think we probably are not in a very different place in terms of the importance of the Crown Estate and the opportunities were it to be devolved, and we are steadfast in our view as a Welsh Government on that.

I will say that we do welcome the appointment of the Welsh commissioner. It will raise the importance of the Crown Estate delivering for Wales as part of their operations, and we look forward to engaging with them in due course. Of course, the Crown Estate's role is absolutely pivotal in terms of making sure that we do have that pipeline of future projects around the UK's coastline, and thinking about the Celtic sea also. All of this is critically important. I think that we come from the same place in terms of the foundation of your question. I do have an intention to meet with the Crown Estate shortly. They are represented, I should say, on our task and finish group, as well.

Joyce Watson (Labour, Mid and West Wales)

Cabinet Secretary, we all know that there are a number of very exciting offshore renewable energy projects in the pipeline around the Pembrokeshire coast for the coming years. There is huge scope, of course, and opportunity for skilled, well-paid jobs in this sector, as well as a well-trained workforce. You were with me in Pembrokeshire College just a couple of weeks ago, where we saw that the investment that we've made into the facilities there is providing futures for our young people who live there. Industry is very much involved in realising the opportunities from that investment. But I'm keen to know, Cabinet Secretary, what discussions the Welsh Government is having with industry and with training providers to make sure that all the benefits are realised to their maximum opportunity.

Rebecca Evans (Labour, Gower)

I'm very grateful for the question. I really enjoyed the visit that we had to Pembrokeshire College, alongside Vikki Howells. The enthusiasm of everybody involved, the young people and the tutors and others in the college, was really palpable. We've been working really closely with the sector to understand what their needs are for the future. We've got the work that is undertaken through the regional skills partnerships, but actually, we've been doing some very specific work that looks at setting out a clean energy sector skills road map. Of course, that is involving the industries themselves, but also working with the colleges to ensure that we can deliver on that road map—so, looking ahead, what are the skills that industry is going to need in five years' time, or 10 years' time, and planning for that so that, when these opportunities do come on stream, which I'm sure they will, we have the right people with the right skills available to meet those needs.

Buffy Williams (Labour, Rhondda)

7. How will the Welsh Government support Rhondda residents to obtain the green skills necessary for the green jobs of the future? OQ62121

Jack Sargeant (Labour, Alyn and Deeside)

We are delivering our 'Net Zero Skills Action Plan' across Wales. Progress includes the introduction of green personal learning accounts, new net-zero skills-related funding streams under our flexible skills programme and a new apprenticeship pathway in energy management.

Buffy Williams (Labour, Rhondda)

Climate change is the biggest challenge facing us both globally and locally. Residents in Rhondda and across Rhondda Cynon Taf know only too well that we are not immune from the effects of climate change, following recent bouts of flooding. RHA Wales, now Beacon Group Cymru, have created the Greener RCT project with three aims: to raise awareness of climate change; to reduce the carbon footprint of Tonypandy high street; and to create a green skills pathway. I was fortunate to attend one of their green skills pathway conferences at Coleg y Cymoedd, where a partnership has formed to create valuable learning opportunities for all through carbon literacy, and to help create the green jobs of the future for our young people. It would be great for the Minister to visit Coleg y Cymoedd to see this partnership in action. The construction companies at the conference spoke highly of the funding made available from the Welsh Government to help upskill the workforce with green skills. Will the Minister confirm whether this funding will continue and how we can support construction companies to reach workers who may not feel that this training is needed?

Jack Sargeant (Labour, Alyn and Deeside)

Diolch, Buffy Williams. Presiding Officer, Buffy Williams is very clearly leading the charge in the fight against climate change and all of the challenges that that presents for her and her constituents, but also in championing the jobs and green growth opportunities that the topic provides as well, consistently raising it with a number of Ministers in this place. I welcome the work and thank the Member for raising the work of Beacon Cymru and the local college, in raising awareness of the need and opportunities in relation to green skills and playing their part in addressing the climate change challenges. I would be delighted to join the Member on a visit to see the plans that they have, including the development of the net-zero training centre, which is being supported by over £3.7 million-worth of Welsh Government funding. The Minister for Further and Higher Education and I will be holding a green skills review and colleagues from the college and industry partners will be present in that review. Funding will go on in this space in the next round of budget, including personal learning accounts, green personal learning accounts, including £144 million in apprenticeships, including an uplift of £6.5 million in our flexible skills programme. We are very much focused on green skills. Jobs and green growth are key priorities, Llywydd, for the First Minister, and this Welsh Labour Government is committed to ensuring that residents in the Rhondda, which Buffy represents, do have the skills to access the green jobs of the future.

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

Finally, question 8, Delyth Jewell.

Delyth Jewell (Plaid Cymru, South Wales East)

8. What assessment has the Cabinet Secretary made of the adequacy of the funding the Welsh Government provides for culture and the arts? OQ62120

Jack Sargeant (Labour, Alyn and Deeside)

The Welsh Government will continue to work closely with the culture and arts sectors in Wales to ensure that they receive sufficient funding.

Delyth Jewell (Plaid Cymru, South Wales East)

Thank you for your response, Minister.

Delyth Jewell (Plaid Cymru, South Wales East)

Funding for the arts and culture is in a perilous state. Modest uplifts will do little to ease the sense of strain on theatres, publishing, music companies, libraries, museums—a strain that has already led to job losses and cutbacks in creativity. We risk facing a future where culture and the arts are indulgences, instead of being a part of what we all are.

Culture in Wales is not for the elites. It is, in Raymond Williams's wonderful words, ordinary—fantastically, radically ordinary—and it belongs to all of us. But unless we see a fantastic and radical shift in how it is funded, it will be lost, and we will all be poorer. Does the Government recognise the scale of what is necessary to prevent that from happening? Does it realise that, without that radical increase in funding, the crisis facing our culture will continue?

Jack Sargeant (Labour, Alyn and Deeside)

Diolch, Delyth, for the supplementary question, and for the work that you do in chairing the culture committee here in the Senedd. I'm grateful for the opportunity to be in front of you tomorrow and look forward to that scrutiny session that, no doubt, we will have. The report that you have published around the impact of some of the decisions that have been made, in due course—I look forward to responding to that in full.

We have been over this already this afternoon. There's a context of where some of these decisions have been made, and there are interventions that we have taken—in-year funding of £5 million to support the sector; additional capital funding of £3.7 million from July. There is an opportunity for every single Member of this Senedd to support the sector in the forthcoming budget by voting to support more money into the sector. It is quite clear that there is an opportunity for everyone to have.

We will go on supporting this sector in the way that we will. The first budget since having a UK Labour Government sees an increase in the opportunity for the arts. We can't right all of the wrongs in one budget, but it's a sense of the direction where we want to go. And I think, Presiding Officer, in all of those challenges, and talking about creativity—. Let's just spend a little bit of time in the final winding up of this session in looking at the work of Creative Wales. I will just pick production, film and TV—£26.5 million invested by Creative Wales. That's because of this Welsh Labour Government. Over £300 million back into the Welsh economy. Those productions very much focus on Welsh creativity and culture. We should be proud of that work, and we will go on continuing to invest in the creative sector in that way.

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

I thank the Minister and the Cabinet Secretary.

2. Questions to the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

The next item will be questions to the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care. The first question is from Alun Davies.

Alun Davies (Labour, Blaenau Gwent)

1. Will the Cabinet Secretary make a statement on the provision of GP services in Blaenau Gwent? OQ62094

Jeremy Miles (Labour, Neath)

Ensuring good access to GP services across Wales, including all areas of Blaenau Gwent, is a priority for this Government.

Alun Davies (Labour, Blaenau Gwent)

Cabinet Secretary, I am delighted to hear that it is a priority for this Government, because there's a crisis in Blaenau Gwent and other parts of the Aneurin Bevan health board area. There is a crisis of access to basic GP services, created by eHarleyStreet, a private company that has been brought in and has failed my constituents, and has failed to deliver services for the people that I and others here represent. But not only are they failing their patients, they're failing their staff. They're not paying the pension contributions they should be paying. I've spoken to suppliers in the last few days who also have bills unpaid. This is an outfit that can't pay its bills and can't deliver services. Do you agree with me, Cabinet Secretary, that people have a right to expect excellence in the services they receive, that suppliers have a right to have their bills paid, that staff have a right to work in an environment where they don't feel bullied, and staff have a right to ensure that their pension contributions are made and that the inland revenue is paid? This is a company that can neither deliver services nor pay its bills. Surely it's time to call time on this failed experiment.

Jeremy Miles (Labour, Neath)

Can I associate myself with the comments that the First Minister made in First Minister's questions last week in relation to the important question that Alun Davies raises? I have made my views clear to the health board, most recently in a meeting last week. Contractors for GP services should comply with the obligations that they take on. It is unacceptable for staff not be paid. It is unacceptable for suppliers not to be paid, not least given the obvious risks that come with that. And clinical cover should be provided at all surgeries. I expect the board to put in place arrangements to ensure that these requirements are complied with, and the board has acknowledged that in the discussions I have had with it. I will be seeking an account from the board of the results of the arrangements it has in place, and a reassurance that there is a plan for GP services to be provided at the locations the Member refers to in his constituency, and elsewhere, in a way that is stable, sustainable and, as he says, meets the needs of patients.

Natasha Asghar (Conservative, South Wales East)

Cabinet Secretary, Labour's recent botched budget has caused major damage to many aspects of society, including our GP surgeries. The Chancellor's decision to increase employers national insurance and reduce the threshold at which employers pay towards it will indeed have a devastating impact on the sector, including surgeries in Blaenau Gwent and the remaining region of south-east Wales. Current estimates predict the cost to GP practices in Wales to cover these changes stands at around £7 million. This is massive, Cabinet Secretary, particularly when you take into account that we already have lost more than 100 GP practices in Wales since 2012, and it will, of course, have a serious knock-on effect when it comes to offering patients care and support. So, Cabinet Secretary, what discussions have you had with the UK Government about making GP practices in Wales exempt from these tax hikes, and what direct action will the Welsh Government be taking to limit the damage inflicted upon GP surgeries here in Wales? Thank you.

Jeremy Miles (Labour, Neath)

Given the damage her party in Government has done to GP services across the border over the last 14 years, I think it's rather rich for the Member to put it in quite those terms. As she knows, the decision—[Interruption.] As she knows—[Interruption.] As she knows, the decision to levy national insurance is a decision of the UK Government. We have, of course, outlined our view in terms of the impact of that on GP practices, but in other parts of the health and social care service and economy as well. The UK Government's position as of today, at the moment, is that the provision that they will make will relate to public sector employees specifically, but we continue to make the case that the implications beyond that group of people will be significant, and we are in discussions, of course, with general practitioners in relation to the pressures that they necessarily will face as a consequence.

Peredur Owen Griffiths (Plaid Cymru, South Wales East)

I'd go further than Alun Davies, I'd say this is a scandal, what's happening with eHarleyStreet in Blaenau Gwent and across the Aneurin Bevan health board. Representing the area, I've been in touch with some of the GPs—the 40-plus GPs—that are now being affected by this. It needs addressing at Government level and not leaving the health board to its own devices in remedying this, so it needs intervention by you now, Cabinet Secretary. I spoke to one GP who's owed £20,000 in locum wages. Him and his former partner, again, are owed in excess of £300,000 from contracts that haven't been fulfilled by eHarleyStreet. It shows a worrying pattern of behaviour. I spoke to another GP who is now travelling from Monmouthshire to Pembrokeshire to work as a locum rather than working in our communities. So, at a time when we're crying out for doctors, this situation can't go on any longer. I therefore ask you, what are you going to do to get to grips with this matter and to ensure that the trust in GPs is not being eroded? This is public money that's being spent. It has been spent in good faith by the health board, going to eHarleyStreet but then not paying people. It's something that needs to be addressed, and needs to be addressed very, very quickly. So, what are you going to do to make sure that these GPs are getting paid? Diolch.

Jeremy Miles (Labour, Neath)

I refer the Member to the answer I gave a moment ago to Alun Davies. And in terms of what I'm doing, I outlined the actions that I'm taking in that response, and I'll be very happy to update Members when I have the further information I'm seeking from the board.

Delyth Jewell (Plaid Cymru, South Wales East)

Since these queries were first raised in the Senedd about eHarleyStreet, about how this private company is managing GP surgeries in Blaenau Gwent and throughout the Rhymney valley, I think a number of us have been contacted by constituents who can't get appointments. One person described ringing the telephone line of a surgery affected and hearing a recorded message saying that they were number 85 in the queue. Now we've heard about the distress caused to doctors who haven't been paid, who are owed thousands of pounds. But I'm also concerned about the lack of clinical governance in some of these practices. The company eHarleyStreet seems to be working to a model that relies on nurses and nurse practitioners leading care rather than GPs. Now, I've been sent information that on one day, in one of the surgeries affected, only one GP was present for a practice of over 11,000 patients. Usually a practice like that would have five or six GPs, and because so many GPs are, perhaps understandably now, refusing to work in these practices because they haven't been paid, that could surely get worse.

Patients deserve better. So, with that in mind, in terms of the clinical governance issue, what could the Government do, please? What do you expect that the health board could do to ensure that these surgeries, and those people who rely on these surgeries, aren't left in this limbo any longer?

Jeremy Miles (Labour, Neath)

Well, look, clearly there are requirements in the contracts that GPs take on from the health board that stipulate outcomes of the sort the Member is referring to. And I made it clear in my response to Alun Davies that clinical cover at all the locations to which he and I think you were referring is absolutely essential, and I'd be happy to report back to Members my further discussions with the board in relation to that.

Russell George (Conservative, Montgomeryshire)

2. How is the Welsh Government supporting Powys Teaching Health Board to deliver better outcomes for patients? OQ62087

Jeremy Miles (Labour, Neath)

The Welsh Government has recently allocated just over £7 million in additional funding in recognition of financial pressures in the current year, which will support Powys Teaching Health Board to deliver safe and timely access to its residents.

Russell George (Conservative, Montgomeryshire)

Okay, well, thank you for your answer, Cabinet Secretary. Acute stroke services currently take place, of course, in Bronglais hospital in Aberystwyth, which serves large parts of my own constituency, and you will be aware that Hywel Dda Health Board are considering proposals that include the downgrading of stroke services at Bronglais Hospital, which would mean mid Wales patients suffering from a stroke would have to be transferred to Withybush or Llanelli. Now, as you know, Cabinet Secretary every hour is critical following a stroke, and all options proposed would mean my constituents would not have access to time-critical care, and time critical is something you mentioned in your earlier answer to me, Cabinet Secretary.

Apart from not receiving access to treatment quickly, of course recovery is also important, and it is entirely unreasonable, I would suggest, and often impractical, for someone living in Llanidloes or Machynlleth, and relatives, to have to travel to Withybush in order to visit a relative. So, how are you supporting Powys patients and Powys health board to ensure that there are sufficient and timely acute stroke services for Powys patients?

Jeremy Miles (Labour, Neath)

Well, my understanding is that no decision has yet been taken by Hywel Dda in relation to reconfiguration of stroke services, and there will be a consultation on that in May. He makes an important point about the implications for residents living outside the footprint of the health board in relation to that kind of reconfiguration, and I do expect health boards to undertake a rigorous options appraisal with that in mind, and a collaborative approach not just with delivery partners, obviously, which is critical, and the Stroke Association and others, but with neighbouring health boards where there are implications for residents in those health board areas as well. My understanding from the health board is that they’ve said that the initial care and treatment for stroke patients will not change and that all four main hospitals, including Bronglais, will still be able to provide life-saving thrombolysis. The rehabilitation provision as well also won’t be affected. But I would expect both health boards to be in discussion in relation to the implications for those residents outside the footprint of Hywel Dda itself.

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

Questions now from the party spokespeople. Welsh Conservatives spokesperson, James Evans.

James Evans (Conservative, Brecon and Radnorshire)

Diolch, Llywydd. Cabinet Secretary, the recent Audit Wales report has laid bare alarming shortcomings in Wales’s cancer services, particularly the lack of clarity and accountability in leadership roles. This failure has caused widespread confusion and inefficiencies in patient care. Despite a staggering 54 per cent real-terms increase in spending in cancer services over the past 13 years, the NHS in Wales continues to miss the target for starting cancer treatment. Leadership failures have resulted in shocking delays for patients, with some waiting over 100 days to begin treatment. These delays exacerbate anxiety and lead to poorer survival rates, which are already worse in Wales than in any other nation across the UK. Given the lack of clarity, accountability and duplication of leadership roles, and, as someone said, ‘We don’t know who’s in charge’, how do you and the Welsh Government justify this chronic mismanagement? What actions will you take to fix the leadership vacuum, dismantle bureaucratic silos, and ensure that patients no longer have to face appalling delays, which cost lives?

Jeremy Miles (Labour, Neath)

I welcome the report that the auditor general published yesterday. It is an important report. I accept the thrust of the challenges and the concerns that the auditor general outlines in the report. So, the overall picture is that too many people are waiting too long for treatments that they should be getting faster. I obviously want to see faster diagnosis, faster treatment. It is true to say, for a number of cancers in a number of parts of Wales, those targets are being met and sometimes being exceeded quite significantly, but the overall picture, I accept, is that the targets are not being met.

The auditor general makes a number of recommendations. I think it is fair to say he acknowledges the priority that the Government gives to cancer services in Wales and the investment that the Government has made into cancer services. I think there is absolutely a case for better co-ordination, better alignment, of the range of interventions we have in the system to support patients with cancer in Wales, whether that’s in prevention, in the performance of services themselves, or in the wide range of research that we make into cancer. I think there’s a case for aligning that better, giving it a clearer sense of direction at a national level, and that’s what we will be doing. That actually accords with work that’s already under way. Much of what’s in the report echoes our own analysis over recent months in relation to cancer provision, and I will also be looking at the cancer quality statement to make sure that is current and that the roles and responsibilities and our expectations as a Government are clear for all of those participating in the system.

James Evans (Conservative, Brecon and Radnorshire)

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. It’s good you accept the report. It would be good to see you come forward with actually what you’re going to do around those recommendations, because another part that the report highlighted was the severe workforce challenges that we have here in Wales. After 26 years of the Welsh Labour Government’s stewardship of the Welsh NHS, particularly in cancer services, workforce numbers have increased by 27 per cent, but the chronic recruitment and retention issues persist across the system. The growing reliance on expensive agency staff—now representing 5.5 per cent of the NHS workforce, and, in cost, that’s £325 million in 2022-23—is a clear sign of workforce planning failures. These staff shortages are directly delaying cancer diagnosis and treatment, worsening outcomes for patients. Despite repeated warnings from organisations like the Wales Cancer Alliance, the Welsh Government has failed to deliver a comprehensive workforce strategy. You said about the cancer statement, but what we do need here is a comprehensive workforce strategy around this issue. I’d like to know why has this Welsh Labour Government allowed this crisis to deepen year after year and what steps are you going to take to address the disastrous recruitment and retention problems and end the wasteful overreliance on agency staff in the NHS in Wales, because it’s about time we sorted that out to ensure that our patients get the timely and high quality of cancer care that they deserve.

Jeremy Miles (Labour, Neath)

Well, the Member starts by telling us how much more recruitment there has been into cancer services—

James Evans (Conservative, Brecon and Radnorshire)

It's not doing anything.

Jeremy Miles (Labour, Neath)

—so I think it's important to acknowledge the scale of recruitment into cancer services. That is important. The Member is not right to say it isn't doing anything. There's a sharp increase in the number of referrals into cancer pathways. And it is true to say that Wales is not the only country that is finding it challenging to recruit into some aspects of cancer services. Radiology is challenging, but so are many other disciplines. He makes an important point about the reliance on agency staff, and I couldn't agree more with him—that is an unsustainable position for the NHS to be in. He will, I'm sure, have seen the guidance that I gave to the NHS before Christmas in the most recent planning framework, which was explicit about actions that I expect the service to take on an 'adopt or justify' basis. And several of those go to the heart of the point he's just made about reducing agency spend and putting retention and recruitment on a more stable footing.

James Evans (Conservative, Brecon and Radnorshire)

Reliance on agency staff is a problem. A lot of these agency staff are on the front line, and, quite rightly so, the public and I, and I'm sure every Member across this Chamber, hold our NHS front-line staff in the highest regard. But there is becoming an outrage in the public about the ballooning number of managers across the NHS compared to front-line healthcare providers. While the overall NHS staff numbers have risen between 2014 and 2023 from 72,000 to 91,000, that does not address the clinical shortages of people on the front line. Shockingly, administrative and estate staff have increased by 51.1 per cent during that time, from 15,000 to over 22,000 full-time staff now. And I'd like to know, Cabinet Secretary, after 26 years, how can the Welsh Labour Government justify the bloated expansion of administrative roles while patients face unacceptable delays for treatment due to a lack of front-line staff? What is the Welsh Government doing to prioritise our front-line healthcare professionals and stop the unchecked growth of directors and managerial roles, and finally deliver an NHS that the patients in Wales deserve and pay for?

Jeremy Miles (Labour, Neath)

The Member makes an easy point, and a populist point, but the truth is that a complex healthcare system requires people who are competent to run the healthcare system, and that is a skill—[Interruption.]—and that is a skill in itself. The level of recruitment into the NHS over recent years has been—[Interruption.] Is the Member happy for me to answer his question?

James Evans (Conservative, Brecon and Radnorshire)

I am—

Jeremy Miles (Labour, Neath)

Thank you.

James Evans (Conservative, Brecon and Radnorshire)

—but I think, honestly, there are too many managers in the NHS.

Jeremy Miles (Labour, Neath)

Thank you.

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

The questions have been asked; allow the Cabinet Secretary to respond, and listen to the response, please.

Jeremy Miles (Labour, Neath)

There has been an increase in recruitment to the NHS across all disciplines and all important roles that enable the NHS to be effectively run. He has acknowledged several times in his question so far the sharp increase in recruitment of front-line staff. The Welsh NHS, like the NHS in other parts of the UK, and, indeed, internationally, does struggle to fill certain disciplines in certain parts of the service, and we must do better, collectively, in relation to that. But I think a worldview that suggests that managers and those running the NHS simply should be taken out of the system is a very naive perspective.

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Mabon ap Gwynfor.

Mabon ap Gwynfor (Plaid Cymru, Dwyfor Meirionnydd)

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Llywydd. I'd like to develop a little bit on James Evans's questioning on the Audit Wales report into cancer services in Wales. The report makes a number of findings, as we've heard: a lack of clarity over the status of national strategies; the need to better define and delineate the roles of the Welsh Government and the NHS executive in delivering strategic leadership; and the quality and reliability of data being below standard. They all had a familiar ring, because they match almost word for word the issues explored in Plaid Cymru's report into NHS governance, which was published back in November. The Cabinet Secretary kindly mentioned a few weeks ago that he had read our report, so, presumably, he's aware of our recommendations to reform the governance architecture of the NHS. Therefore, in the spirit of showing in deeds as well as words that no one party has a monopoly on good ideas, will he commit to implementing the recommendations of our report?

Jeremy Miles (Labour, Neath)

The report, I remember, followed a statement that I had made in the Chamber and a speech that I gave to the NHS Confederation, which found many echoes in the report that Plaid Cymru published two weeks later. And I was very pleased to see that the kind of fresh thinking I was seeking to bring to the challenges that we face was agreed—[Interruption.]—was agreed to by Plaid Cymru. I see the same thing in the plan that Plaid Cymru have published yesterday in relation to tackling waiting lists: establish regional elective care hubs, tick; triage services, tick; embedding collaboration between health boards, tick; waiting list planning, tick; technology, tick. I mean, I’m very grateful to the Member for echoing the interventions that we’re already making on the NHS.

The substantive point he’s making, though, is that there is a need to rebalance that relationship across the NHS. Planning guidance, which I gave before Christmas, starts us on the path of doing that. It sets out clearly a smaller number of top priorities that I expect the NHS to deliver and then interventions that will support them to do that. I recognise that, beyond that, there is a level of flexibility and a level of discretion and judgment that health boards are absolutely best placed to be able to undertake to reflect the needs of their local population. But that approach, which is a set of clear expectations, flexibilities to deliver, and a centre able to support and intervene when those aren't met, I think is the right way forward.

Mabon ap Gwynfor (Plaid Cymru, Dwyfor Meirionnydd)

With respect, that’s a disappointing response, because you seem to be in complete denial about the problems within the health service. The suggestions that we have put forward in a series of reports are ones that have come up from clinicians, saying that these are problems on the ground and these need to be implemented, so, you’re clearly not implementing them if you’re saying that you have done them already.

Now, of course, long waits have become emblematic of Labour’s quarter century of management of the health service. The fact that Wales has amongst the worst survival rates in the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development for cancer comes as little surprise when we consider that almost half of cancer patients don’t receive the treatment they need in time, with even longer waits for conditions such as gynaecological cancers.

The targets of the Welsh Government’s planned care recovery plan, which were set by the First Minister in her previous role, of course, included an ambition to ensure that 80 per cent of all cancer patients receive treatment within the clinically recommended 62-day period by 2026. Can the Cabinet Secretary guarantee, contrary to the other targets contained within the plan, that this one at least will actually be met?

Jeremy Miles (Labour, Neath)

The Member makes, in this question, an important point about the importance of setting targets for the system to enable the system to deliver the outcomes that we expect and that the people of Wales expect. So, he will have seen, I’m sure, in the planning framework that I issued before Christmas, the target for 80 per cent by March of next year that I’ve set in relation to cancer performance. There is, as we’ve discussed previously, a reasonable level of variability across Wales in relation to meeting cancer targets. So, for example, breast cancer in Cwm Taf Morgannwg University Health Board, lung cancer in Cardiff and Vale University Health Board—these are well performing services that are meeting their targets. And there are some cancer sites—so, skin cancer, blood cancer—where the performance across the system is very good. But the overall performance isn’t sufficient.

The lesson I took from the auditor general’s report, which I thought was constructive, was the need to look again at the range of interventions that we have—the quality statement, the cancer improvement plan, the support programme—to make sure that they are all aligned, managed with purpose, and that is able to give the system the direction that it needs. But it does require as well innovation in the delivery of services on the ground. So, he will know that we’ve increased the ability to send patients straight to test without having to seek an out-patient appointment first. Those sorts of initiatives, we know, will be able to help us speed the journey of patients through their pathway to get the care that they need in a timely fashion. Most cancer patients in Wales are being seen within the 62-day target, but we are not hitting the target and we must.

Mabon ap Gwynfor (Plaid Cymru, Dwyfor Meirionnydd)

Far below—far below the target. Now, as I mentioned in my first question, it is self-evident that timely collection and publication of data is essential to a well-functioning health service, particularly for the purposes of efficient workforce planning and resource allocation. But, time and time again, we hear the same issue being raised by healthcare professionals: the quality and accessibility of health data in Wales is simply not up to scratch. I was talking to people who work in the field of lesser survivable cancers over lunch time, and this issue came up once again.

The Wales cancer registry is meant to provide timely data on cancer incidence to allow Wales to contribute to national and international cancer studies, but it hasn’t published validated cancer data since 2021. Shamefully, this means Wales can’t fully take part in essential national cancer audits, such as the national lung cancer audit, or in global studies, such as the international cancer benchmarking partnership. It also means that Public Health Wales is fundamentally hamstrung in its ability to project future demand on cancer services. When will you correct this glaring data gap by publishing cancer incidence data right up to the end of 2024?

Jeremy Miles (Labour, Neath)

Well, I think he makes an important point about the importance of data and reliable data in all parts of the health service, actually. I would go further: I would say the availability of data is critical. My own view about data across the system is that the availability of data itself isn’t our main challenge. The main challenge is being able to use that data in a way that is as purposeful as it possibly can be. I think that’s a challenge for health services everywhere, by the way, but it’s certainly one that I would recognise here.

So, in terms of cancer data specifically, which is what his question was about, we have, actually, improved the publicly available data, and we publish on a monthly basis about 18 pages of cancer treatment statistics so that they can be scrutinised. We do want to improve transparency further by looking to add data at sub-type level, so more granular data than we are currently able to provide, and there is work under way to get us to that point, and that’s part of a much wider set of actions on improving cancer data generally.

Hefin David (Labour, Caerphilly)

3. Will the Cabinet Secretary make a statement on Welsh Government support for autistic people? OQ62113

Jeremy Miles (Labour, Neath)

The Welsh Government is committed to ensuring accessible services and effective support for autistic people and their families. Through the neurodivergence improvement programme and the national neurodivergence team, we continue to provide support and drive improvements to enhance outcomes, empowering autistic individuals to thrive in all aspects of their lives.

Hefin David (Labour, Caerphilly)

I’ve just had Llyr Gruffydd’s statement of opinion this, which I urge Members to sign, and I’ve recently assisted a constituent who received an autism diagnosis before Christmas. She feels that her autism spectrum condition referral system in school delayed her assessment with the local health board, which resulted in her becoming very ill, and she’s concerned that this might be happening elsewhere, and I’ve seen evidence in my casework. The additional learning needs review needs to take account of the fact that schools have to go through local authorities in order to contact health boards, and that is a circular system that delays very much the ability of schools to contact the health board. Therefore, does the Cabinet Secretary agree that local health boards need to be involved in any review of how autistic spectrum condition referrals happen within schools? And will he work with his colleague the Cabinet Secretary for Education to ensure this happens within the context of the wider review of ALN?

Jeremy Miles (Labour, Neath)

I thank Hefin David for that supplementary. The ALN legislative review, which my Cabinet colleague the Cabinet Secretary for Education is taking forward, as I understand it, is focused mainly on the clarity and accessibility of the legislative framework itself and gathering evidence on some of the practical challenges for that. He does make an important point about the relationship between schools, local authorities and health boards. I will say that, as part of the neurodivergence improvement programme, we held an event in November last year, which was aimed at improving ND services for children, creating an integrated approach, involving all partners and including education partners. And it was clear, I think, from the discussions there, just how important it is, as we redesign the system, to ensure that all parts of the system, all parts of public services, are engaged and working together in the way they can support families. An important part of that work and the work that we’re already doing to improve services is making sure that staff in schools have the necessary training and the skill set they need to be able to support children who may be neurodiverse, and then making timely referrals to assessment when that’s needed.

Sam Rowlands (Conservative, North Wales)

I’m grateful to you, Hefin David, for raising this important and timely question in the Chamber here today. Cabinet Secretary, you will be aware that recent reports have shown that, by 2027, the number of children who will be seeking autism and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder assessments could triple to around 61,000. Now, we already know, as Hefin David outlined, the pressures that those assessment services are under, and in my region of north Wales I'm aware that children are now having to wait up to five years for that assessment to take place. In a child's lifetime, five years is a huge length of time. That's clearly having an impact on their educational attainment and the appropriate services to support them through their childhood. I wonder if you could just briefly outline why you think that, in a place like north Wales, children are having to wait that length of time, and why you think that the pressure on assessments is not being met currently. I know that there's a £3 million additional fund that the Welsh Government made available to support this, and do you think that's enough to deal with this additional pressure that the service is seeing?

Jeremy Miles (Labour, Neath)

I thank Sam Rowlands for that question. I think the source of the information that he refers to was the evidence that my colleague Sarah Murphy gave in committee last week. The point that she was making, I thought very transparently and very openly in that discussion, was that unless we take steps to reconfigure services, that is where we are likely to be heading. So, it isn't an inevitability and we don't want to see it happening.

The direct answer to his question is that I do not think that the £3 million intervention to tackle the longest waits is sufficient on its own, but we've never said that it will be. We think that the need to put the service on a different footing in the longer term is the solution to being able to see people more quickly. So, as well as the additional funding for the longest waits between now and the end of March—and all parts of Wales have benefited from that, including north Wales—the reconfiguration of the service through the improvement programme is the longer term solution. So, the point that I was making earlier to Hefin David about the redesign event that we had in November is exactly part of that. It brought stakeholders in—more than 100 stakeholders, I believe—to look at how we can reconfigure services so that we don't find ourselves in the position that Sarah Murphy was saying we otherwise would be in.

Carolyn Thomas (Labour, North Wales)

I'd like to highlight the wonderful work of a charity in Llay, Your Space, that help numerous neurodivergent families. They provide support for 165 young people and outreach to 140 parents. There is some crossover as well, but there's a waiting list of 70 young people and also 45 outreach families. Their rent has been trebled by the local authority this year and they're at risk of closure, despite referrals from the local authority and the health board to this amazing charity. So, I'd like to ask—. These are also people that aren't even on the waiting list, maybe, but they're self-diagnosed as needing support. So, how does the Welsh Government help support third sector organisations such as Your Space so that they continue the important work that they do?

Jeremy Miles (Labour, Neath)

I thank Carolyn Thomas for that, and she makes an important point about the range of providers making a real contribution to the lives of young people and others from the perspective of ND services more generally. And I absolutely recognise that a number are facing pressures for a range of different reasons. I know that, through the sustainable social services grant scheme, which my colleague Dawn Bowden has responsibility for, we do provide support for a range of organisations. I'm not sure that I can tell her that the organisation that she's mentioned is one of them—I just don't know that information—but there are a range of organisations that do benefit from that grant, and it's designed specifically to enable them to be sustainable, given the kind of service they provide and the extent to which we and young people depend on them.

Sioned Williams (Plaid Cymru, South Wales West)

4. What is the Welsh Government doing to support the mental health of young people? OQ62095

Jeremy Miles (Labour, Neath)

We recently consulted on our draft all-age mental health and well-being strategy, which sets out our priorities for the next 10 years. This includes a focus on the early years and the mental health of young people through prevention and early intervention. We will publish the strategy in the spring.

Sioned Williams (Plaid Cymru, South Wales West)

Diolch yn fawr. There are young people in Wales at this moment considering taking their own life and, for young people in the LGBTQ+ community, the statistics are alarming. Figures from the Trevor Project suggest that almost 60 per cent of LGBTQ+ people are seriously considering or have seriously considered attempting suicide. Recently, I visited Progress Cymru Counselling, based in Swansea, that's provided support to young people within the LGBTQ+ community and their families for 20 years, and the founder, Debbie Lane, was recognised for her services to the mental health of young people in the new year honours list. This is an organisation that makes a real difference. Not only have they never lost anyone they've supported, but of the referrals made to them, none have ever had to be re-referred back to the NHS, and they're, of course, a preventative service. Calculations from the Mental Health Foundation show that, for the last two financial years, their social return on investment amounted to over £1.5 million each year, and, of this, the direct cost avoidance benefits to Government were over £1 million each year. But all this good work could soon come to an end because, because of a lack of funding, this organisation will have to close in April. The LGBTQ+ action plan commits to ensuring the mental health needs of this community are supported. So, Cabinet Secretary, will you meet with Progress Cymru Counselling to hear about the challenges they're facing, and is there anything that can be done to ensure a really vital service like this isn't lost?

Jeremy Miles (Labour, Neath)

I'm really grateful to Sioned Williams for raising this in the Chamber. I absolutely recognise the point that she makes about mental health challenges, but suicide is a particular challenge for young LGBTQ+ individuals. And, as she has acknowledged in her question, it is a critical part of our action plan to support the mental health and well-being of young people in particular in that community. Preventing suicide is a priority for us as a Government, as I think she acknowledged in her question, and the funding that we've made available, on a preventative basis, has increased quite substantially. That has helped us, I think, to strengthen the infrastructure in Wales, notwithstanding the very important point the Member was making. I think that has enabled us to strengthen the infrastructure around prevention of suicide and self-harm, either through the regional co-ordinators, coupled with the national action through the national suicide and self-harm prevention team. I would be very happy to meet with the organisation that she refers to, to hear from them about the challenges that they're facing and the contribution that, from her question, they are clearly making to young people.

Mark Isherwood (Conservative, North Wales)

Neurodiverse conditions, including autism, are not mental health conditions; they're lifelong neurodevelopmental conditions that shape how people see the world and how they connect with others. Many autistic people have meltdowns when completely overwhelmed, and their condition means it's difficult to express that in another way. It's not the same as a temper tantrum, and not bad or naughty behaviour. In these circumstances, however, autistic young people continue to be illegally excluded from Welsh schools, and their parents continue to be blamed and subjected to child protection procedures. The Association of Directors of Social Services in England have now published a report on autism and parental blame, which states that 90 per cent of parents said their child did not get the right support as a result of parent blame, and over 70 per cent of parents said their child's mental health worsened, with one in four parents reporting a high suicide risk for their child. So, instead of continuing to throw money and responsibility at those public sector perpetrators who continue to be responsible for this in Wales, when, if ever, will you finally take action to end these long-standing human rights abuses?

Jeremy Miles (Labour, Neath)

Well, I would associate myself with the first part of the Member's question in identifying the concerns. I haven't yet had an opportunity to read the report to which he refers, and I would be very happy to do that and to discuss its contents with my Cabinet colleague the Cabinet Secretary for Education, who will have an interest as well in that area.

I wouldn't accept the characterisation that the Member makes in the second half of his question. It is a challenging area and, actually, in my experience, professionals working in the public sector are looking to do their best for young people, whatever their needs. There is obviously more room for training, obviously more room for awareness raising and other support, and perhaps, having had the benefit of reading that report, we'll be able to reflect further on what more we can do.

Carolyn Thomas (Labour, North Wales)

5. How does the Welsh Government support collaboration between health boards and local authorities? OQ62119

Jeremy Miles (Labour, Neath)

Regional partnership boards and the £0.25 billion pound investment in them are supporting collaboration and integration between health and social care partners. The work of the care action committee, supported by an additional £19 million this winter, has further supported collaborative approaches to system improvement and, crucially, delivering better outcomes for people.

Carolyn Thomas (Labour, North Wales)

Thank you for the answer. The integrated care fund has been really important in providing step-up, step-down care, improving flow with enhanced care facilities, which show good partnership working. I believe that Denbighshire County Council have allocated some funding for that to help with, hopefully, the building of the Royal Alexandra, the improvements, with capital funding from the Welsh Government.

We heard at the Local Government and Housing Committee that the exercise referral scheme hasn't had additional funding for three years from the health boards, and there are other schemes that are delivered by local authorities. But I was just wondering, because there's always a fight over these budgets from the health boards, between health boards and the local authorities, how we can improve collaboration between the two and improve the flow, and make sure that the money follows the person.

Jeremy Miles (Labour, Neath)

Well, the Member makes an important point. One of the important roles that regional partnership boards are tasked with delivering is to ensure that deeper collaboration and to use the funding in a variety of ways—we provide a range of different streams of funding—and are used in a way that breaks down the barriers between the provision of care and the provision of healthcare.

I will say—and I think it has been the experience that I've had and that of the Minister for social care in recent weeks—as we have been planning for winter pressures, and as we've been focusing the system on the most effective things that both health boards and local authorities can do to ensure the safe and speedy discharge of people from hospital into care settings or to be supported at home, I actually think that the ways of working and the collaboration have improved, and I would say that's been true in all parts of Wales. Obviously, different regions have things to learn from one another, so some have strengths in areas where others don't, but I think every part of Wales has seen, I think, a deepening of that collaboration.

I'm planning to make a statement shortly in relation to the outcome of the 50-day challenge, as we were calling it, and I think you'll be able to see then the positive benefits of that. I just want to be clear, it's not a job and finish: 50 days is the time frame to put those things in place. Actually, the benefits of that collaborative way of working will be seen, I hope, very much into the future as well.

Gareth Davies (Conservative, Vale of Clwyd)

Well, isn't it a bit rich and ironic that the Labour Party, after 26 years in Government in Wales, are suddenly posing themselves as solution makers for their own problems? The fact of the matter is that you failed to deliver on such ambitions in the ensuing years: you failed to deliver the north Denbighshire community hospital in Rhyl over a decade after promising it and you conveniently took Betsi Cadwaladr health board out of special measures ahead of the last Senedd elections in 2021 to save your political skin. The public and my constituents will be well within their rights to ask what is the next trick up your sleeve in the next 12 months as a desperate attempt to save your bacon.

I know the Member for North Wales has been silent on this matter of the north Denbighshire community hospital for over three years because of your party's failure, but conveniently, after your success in the last general election, has started to talk about the issue to make your party suddenly start smelling of roses ahead of the next Senedd poll. So, my question is, Cabinet Secretary: do you genuinely want to deliver on such vital projects for my constituents, or do you just see them as political pawns in an attempt to keep you in Government post 2026, despite an ever-growing record of failure, which you'll do anything and everything not to be held accountable for?

Jeremy Miles (Labour, Neath)

The former. The former.

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

Sorry?

Jeremy Miles (Labour, Neath)

The former.

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

You caught me out there, Cabinet Secretary, and I suspect you caught quite a few people out there.

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

Question 6, Cefin Campbell.

Cefin Campbell (Plaid Cymru, Mid and West Wales)

6. Will the Cabinet Secretary make a statement on the provision of stroke services in Mid and West Wales? OQ62117

Jeremy Miles (Labour, Neath)

A great deal of work is being undertaken across Wales to improve equitable access to stroke services and outcomes for people following a stroke. The expectations set out in our stroke quality statement set this work out.

Cefin Campbell (Plaid Cymru, Mid and West Wales)

Cabinet Secretary, you will appreciate, of course, how important it is for people to receive treatment for strokes as close as possible to where they live. This includes live-saving emergency treatment as well as intensive post-stroke rehabilitation. You'll also be aware, I'm sure, that there's a great deal of concern around proposals to downgrade stroke units at Bronglais and Glangwili hospitals, and to turn these into treat and transfer units. You may know that a public meeting has been called for twenty-fourth of this month to discuss the plans for Bronglais in particular.

Cefin Campbell (Plaid Cymru, Mid and West Wales)

Bearing in mind what Russell George has already told us this afternoon, there is concern right across Powys and Gwynedd about these plans or these recommendations, certainly, particularly the time of two hours, perhaps, that it will take for people to receive that comprehensive treatment that is needed for stroke. And this follows, of course, the downgrading that has already been seen in Bronglais Hospital with regard to paediatric services. So, campaigners are tired of hearing about the further centralisation of services and the withdrawal of services from rural hospitals. So, can you give us an assurance today that complete stroke services will be retained at Bronglais Hospital and Glangwili?

Jeremy Miles (Labour, Neath)

As I understand the situation, the health board hasn’t taken any decision on this issue, and there will be a consultation before any change is made to stroke services. As the Member knows, the medical consensus, for a very long period of time, has been that we need to ensure that the hyper-acute elements, in terms of supporting people experiencing stroke, happen at a regional level, because that’s how the expertise can be available to ensure the best possible service for individuals. But as he says, it’s also important that stroke services are available in hospitals more generally. As I understand it, what the health board has in mind is that stroke services will be available in all hospitals, but the hyper-acute element is what’s currently being considered. But there will be an opportunity for further consultation on this when the decision comes closer, if you like.

Joyce Watson (Labour, Mid and West Wales)

Again, I also want to emphasise the concern and anxiety, I think it's fair to say, about the proposals, particularly for Bronglais. I understand what you say, that no decision has been taken, but that at the moment isn't allaying the anxiety that is existing in that community.

You're right to say that the clinicians are stating quite clearly that the acute needs need to be met in an area where that experience and expertise presides. But there's also a statement reassuring people, and these are only proposals at the moment, that those sites will still be able to provide the life-saving thrombolysis that people need—that 'golden hour' in other words—for clot busting, which isn't, of course, appropriate in every case.

So, moving on and trying to allay that anxiety, I'm keen to know what conversations you've had with the health board, if any, about the post-stroke care that will have to happen. Because a stroke doesn't just happen, then people are treated and then sent home, there are an awful lot of social care needs and community care needs post stroke, which are probably the most required in the long term. And I think that is sort of part of the anxiety that is residing, from all the information that I'm receiving through my e-mails.

Jeremy Miles (Labour, Neath)

Well, I thank Joyce Watson for that. I think she is right to say that people do become understandably anxious in the context of potential changes to stroke services. I think she is right to say there are—. I've always thought, in my mind, there are three dimensions to it. I speak not as a clinician, but one element is the presentation at the hospital setting and the requirement for immediate action, then perhaps an acute period, and then, as she rightly says, the access to ongoing recovery support and rehabilitation.

My understanding, as is hers, is that Bronglais will still be able to provide thrombolysis in the way that she was saying in her question. And my understanding of what is under consideration at least is that ongoing recovery and rehabilitation will still be able to take place closer to home, which is obviously what people want to see. But I just want to repeat the point I made earlier. Obviously, I'll expect health boards to not only consult, as I expect will be the case here, but to take that kind of collaborative approach, working with people like the Stroke Association, and also engaging with the lived experience of those who have experienced stroke, so that decisions, which can be sensitive, are fully informed and have taken full account of the range of voices.

Peter Fox (Conservative, Monmouth)

7. What assessment has the Welsh Government made of the impact of the new GP contracts on patient care? OQ62112

Jeremy Miles (Labour, Neath)

We introduced legislation in 2023 to underpin a new unified contract for GPs, which was the biggest change to GP contracts since 2004. The new contract makes clear what services every GP in Wales must provide, supporting improved care. Embedding this new contract takes time, but a robust national assurance process is in place to support health boards in assessing delivery.

Peter Fox (Conservative, Monmouth)

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. I think we all agree in here how fundamental our GP practices are and our GPs are to all of our constituents, and we all, I think, believe that they should be supported and recognised appropriately. It was concerning, though, that the British Medical Association rejected the 2024-25 Welsh GP contract proposal from the Welsh Government by such a significant margin, with only 1.3 per cent voting to accept and 98.7 voting to reject. This really is something, I think, that the Welsh Government must be reflecting on.

Our GP surgeries, we know, are under huge pressure in Wales, with the chair of the BMA's Welsh GP committee reporting that a recent survey of their members showed that 91 per cent of GPs are routinely unable to meet patient demand due to unsustainably high workloads. Cabinet Secretary, can I therefore ask what further steps the Welsh Government are looking to take to ensure that our GPs in Wales are properly supported, to ensure that every one of our constituents is able to access the support and medical care they need, because at the moment, it doesn't feel like they all are?

Jeremy Miles (Labour, Neath)

GPs provide, obviously, an absolutely fundamental service to people in Wales and are most people's experience of the NHS for most of their life. And since I've come into post, I've met a number of GPs to talk about the experience of general practice and the pressures that can arise in different contexts. I met the chair of the GP committee from the BMA before Christmas to discuss very much the sorts of things the Member was referring to in his question.

Look, I absolutely acknowledge the strength of feeling following the BMA Cymru referendum. What I said at the time, and it's my ongoing commitment, is that I am committed to continuing discussions with the BMA, so that we can make sure that we can realise that long-held ambition of moving more and more into primary care, to make the service even more sustainable and stable into the future, providing a range of services outside a secondary setting, which is what the public want, what we know GPs want, and what we know is the most effective way of doing it. So, the offer that we made to GPs met the independent pay review body recommendation of a 6 per cent increase. So, it met the recommendation and would have also seen an uplift in pay for all members of the practice team, but I'm absolutely looking forward to continuing the discussions that we are having with GP representatives to make sure we have a stable sector into the future.

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

Finally, question 8, Siân Gwenllian.

Siân Gwenllian (Plaid Cymru, Arfon)

8. Will the Cabinet Secretary provide an update on Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board's decision to send all aortic aneurysm work out of north Wales, and what is the long-term plan for restoring full and safe vascular services in the north? OQ62096

Jeremy Miles (Labour, Neath)

I have been assured that vascular services are safe in north Wales. A clinical agreement is in place for emergency and elective open aortic procedures to be undertaken in Stoke. Endovascular aneurysm repair and other procedures are delivered locally. The board will now consider the longer term model by the end of March.

Siân Gwenllian (Plaid Cymru, Arfon)

It was mid November when we received the unexpected news that the health board had deferred abdominal aortic aneurysm work in north Wales, and of course this is the latest concerning development regarding vascular services in north Wales. So, when will these specific treatments be restored to north Wales, or is it ultimately the intention not to restore them and to run the service down continually? You talk about a review, which will happen by March, but is it the intention not to restore these services? You need to be entirely transparent on this. Because not restoring these treatments would have very serious implications for patients in my constituency in Arfon and across north Wales, and specifically in terms of medical training in north Wales, too. In terms of that final point on training, do you agree that failing to maintain the full range of vascular treatments would be very problematic indeed in terms of attracting qualified surgeons and trainees to north Wales? Of course, that is the long-term solution for improving vascular services.

Jeremy Miles (Labour, Neath)

At the end of the day, it would be a clinical decision in terms of the kind of decision that the Member is asking about. In terms of context, it's hugely important for every affected individual in terms of this decision, of course it is, but for context, it's around 0.2 per cent of activity by vascular services that is being impacted in north Wales by this decision. I'm not disregarding the experience of somebody within that percentage, but that is the scale of it on the whole.

The board will certainly be transparent in looking at this. They'll be holding a meeting in March, when they'll be looking at the challenges, the opportunities and the benefits that they Member has mentioned today, and we'll look forward to seeing what their considerations are before the end of March.

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary.

3. Topical Questions

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

There are no topical questions this afternoon.

4. 90-second Statements

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

We will move to the 90-second statements. Carolyn Thomas to make her 90-second statement.

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

I was absolutely fascinated to learn today that it is National Pothole Day. I had never heard of the existence of that day, and I'm pleased to allow you to enlighten us on National Pothole Day.

Carolyn Thomas (Labour, North Wales)

Diolch, Llywydd. Today marks National Pothole Day, dedicated to raising awareness of the dangers of potholes, their economic cost and the need for improved road safety. Our highways, whether the strategic road network managed by the Welsh Government, or our local highways managed by councils, have suffered under 14 years of austerity and cuts to public funding, and it's now estimated that there are six potholes per mile on the roads and a backlog of £2.6 billion in remediation work across our entire road network in Wales. In addition to constant use and ageing, our assets are under growing pressure from the effects of climate change. The monsoon-like rain washes away road surfaces, with freezing temperatures then lifting the surfaces and causing potholes and issues with gullies.

Our highways are our biggest and most widespread asset for walking, cycling and public transport. Potholes can cause significant damage to vehicles and serious injury for cyclists. According to Cycling UK, 15 per cent of the cyclists that they help after being injured in a crash were involved in an incident involving potholes. We have made some progress, however, and we can now use AI to help repair potholes more quickly and efficiently. For example, the pothole pro machine, which is currently used in Flintshire, is three to four times more efficient than the standard methods. It's more cost-effective, at £30 a pothole, and it gives a more resilient result, and the workforce thinks it's great. And I am relieved that Welsh Government is providing funding this year to help our roads and pavements and to get rid of some of those potholes.

5. Debate on the Local Government and Housing Committee Report, 'Private rented sector'

David Rees (Labour, Aberavon)

The next item this afternoon is the debate on the Local Government and Housing Committee's report, 'Private Rented Sector'. I call on the committee Chair to move the motion. John Griffiths.

John Griffiths (Labour, Newport East)

I'm pleased to open today's debate on the Local Government and Housing Committee's report on the private rented sector. I would like to start by thanking all of those who contributed to our inquiry, particularly those who shared their personal experiences. I'd like to thank Tai Pawb for their help in arranging the focus groups and the members of their champions network, including those whom I met at the Senedd today, for their valuable input into this report. Hearing about people’s personal experiences is so important, and really does add value to our work, so thank you.

John Griffiths (Labour, Newport East)

Having a safe place to call home, whether that home is rented or owned, is an important part of ensuring that people can live happy, healthy and fulfilling lives. Home ownership isn’t an option for many, and with social housing in such high demand, the private rented sector or PRS plays a crucial role in providing homes for people. It has to work for everyone, tenants and landlords. Landlords need to have confidence that their role is valued and tenants need the security and assurance of knowing that they have a stable home that is affordable and of good quality.

Our report makes 13 recommendations and six conclusions. I’m pleased that 12 of the recommendations were accepted either in full or in principle. One recommendation was rejected, which I will return to shortly. Much of the evidence we received focused on the quality of accommodation available. It’s clear this continues to be an issue. Damp and disrepair were the main issues highlighted, and we know that living in such conditions can have a detrimental impact on people’s health and well-being.

It was concerning to hear of many instances of poor quality housing; tackling this must be a priority for the Welsh Government. The Welsh housing quality standard applies to social rented housing, and while we understand the challenges of extending its application to the private sector, it is difficult to justify why people living in those homes should be any less entitled to quality than those living in social housing. To that end, we support the extension of the Welsh housing quality standard to the private sector, and want to see clarity about when and how this could be given effect. Our recommendations relating to housing quality were accepted in principle, but we are disappointed that the Welsh Government’s response does not indicate any immediate actions to remedy the concerns we heard. Is the Cabinet Secretary able to outline any more immediate plans to improve quality within the private rented sector?

We recommended the development of a property MOT for fitness for human habitation, and in response, the Cabinet Secretary referred to the consultation that’s under way on introducing an annual property condition record. This could be a step forward, but there’s no certainty of that yet. Propertymark, which represents letting agents, has voiced support for this proposal. We note that landlords would self-certify, but I’m not sure whether that goes far enough to address our concerns. I’d therefore be grateful if the Cabinet Secretary could provide more information on this, in particular how we could be confident that compliance would be enforced. We know that local authority resources to undertake enforcement are already stretched. Our recommendation that the Welsh Government and local government work together to increase inspection capacity was accepted in principle. Whilst local authorities are democratically accountable bodies, responsibility for ensuring there’s enough capacity to deliver cannot be left to them alone.

Another theme that came through strongly in evidence was the continuing existence of no-fault evictions in Wales. We know these have been banned in Scotland since 2017, and may also be banned in England via the Renters’ Rights Bill going through the UK Parliament. We appreciate the challenges around preventing no-fault evictions and the Welsh Government has previously made its views known. But with this still a worry for thousands of renters in Wales, as a compromise, we recommended that the Welsh Government should explore the feasibility of enabling tenants who are evicted through no fault of their own to retain the last two months’ rent of their tenancy as compensation for the financial and well-being impact of a forced move. This was suggested to us by Generation Rent, and we see merit in exploring it further as a way of preventing homelessness. We are pleased that this has been accepted by the Welsh Government, and I look forward to hearing from the Cabinet Secretary on the feasibility by April of this year.

John Griffiths (Labour, Newport East)

Another theme in evidence was the right of tenants to have a pet. We were very concerned to hear that high numbers of properties are advertised as not allowing pets. Dogs Trust told us that more than half of households in Wales have a pet, but less than 8 per cent of PRS properties are advertised as pet friendly. I understand that having to relinquish a pet in order to find a home can be very traumatic and the committee feels strongly that tenants should not be put into such a situation. The evidence demonstrated that discrimination by landlords against people with pets is real and needs to be addressed.

Although some properties will be unsuitable for larger animals, we believe that, as long as a property is suitable, tenants should not be prevented from having pets. While we recognise landlords’ fears of property damage, we heard compelling evidence to demonstrate that damage is often less than anticipated and that landlords can make more money by renting to pet owners as they are likely to stay in a property longer. There are also various options around pet insurance and flexible deposits to provide greater assurances to landlords. The committee is therefore united in our view that landlords and agents should not be able to discriminate by not including a clause allowing pets in standard contracts without good reason.

The Renters’ Rights Bill includes provisions that would prevent landlords from unreasonably refusing a request from tenants to keep a pet. While some aspects of that Bill will apply to Wales, the provisions relating to pets will only apply in England. While the Welsh Government’s White Paper on adequate housing, fair rents and affordability includes proposals to allow landlords to charge an insurance premium to cover pet-related damage, we do not believe that these proposals go far enough. In our report on the legislative consent memorandum for the Bill, we recommended that the Welsh Government should seek an amendment to extend the provisions relating to pets to Wales.

Dirprwy Lywydd, turning to the recommendation that was rejected by the Welsh Government, as part of our engagement work, we heard from landlords who specialise in working with tenants on lower incomes, including tenants who may need support services funded by the housing support grant. One such private landlord is White House supported living in Newport, which was included in the report as a case study. I visited White House and saw for myself how it accommodates tenants with support needs, many of whom have been homeless, and provides them with stable long-term homes in shared housing. I heard directly from the tenants about the positive impact this has had on their lives, including some who have lived there for over 10 years. We heard that the company receives housing support grant from the council so that tenants each get tailored support to help maintain their tenancy. This model has clearly worked well, and demonstrates that the PRS can work effectively for tenants with complex support needs, provided that the right support is in place.

We recommended that the Welsh Government should review how many private sector landlords receive housing support grant for tenants who have support needs, and take steps to review and promote examples of good practice within the sector. This was rejected as the Welsh Government stated that support is provided directly to the tenant and that a PRS landlord wouldn’t receive the funds. Nevertheless, the model used is effective and it works well at White House, and we believe it could work well elsewhere. Awareness of the approach should be raised and shared as good practice, which could be implemented in other areas.

Dirprwy Lywydd, I would like to thank again everyone who has played a part in this report, and I look forward to Members' contributions.

Peter Fox (Conservative, Monmouth)

Can I thank the committee for publishing this report? I’ve only just recently joined the committee, but what a solid piece of work and a thorough piece of work it is. I thank you, Chairman, for presenting that on behalf of our committee.

We all deserve to have a home, be it one that we own or one that we rent. The safety and security of knowing we have a roof over our heads at the end of the day is not something that we should take for granted. But according to Office for National Statistics data published in October 2023, private rental prices paid by tenants in Wales have risen by 6.9 per cent, higher than in both England and Scotland. The simple fact is that successive Labour Governments in Wales have failed to build enough homes, resulting in increased competition for tenants. Furthermore, this has contributed to the 8 per cent rise in households assessed as homeless over the last year. That’s an additional 13,000, I believe. This is all while the number of households in temporary accommodation has reached record levels. We all agree that tenants deserve to have security and the assurance of a stable home. However, we have seen far too much policy-making here being directed against landlords, which has led to a mass exodus, thereby further driving up the competition.

I do welcome a number of the recommendations and conclusions in the report and want to highlight a few key points. I welcome the committee’s work in trying to improve renters’ rights, but that must go hand in hand with ensuring that landlords are not forced to leave the sector. I want to welcome recommendation 1 in particular, because it’s clear that the private rented sector has a part to play when it comes to providing housing stock for tenants, and the Government must work with the sector and not against it. I also welcome recommendation 2, which will put in place training and education for landlords and tenants on the grants and support available through the rapid response adaptations programme. I also welcome recommendation 11, extending tenants’ rights to have pets, as the Chairman of the committee pointed out very well.

I do, however, have concerns surrounding recommendation 6, which will knock the little confidence that remains in the private sector and will further contribute to the exodus of private landlords. Fewer properties on the rental market means higher rents and a larger dependency on social housing that the Government just doesn’t have.

To conclude, Dirprwy Lywydd, the Welsh Government must work with both tenants and landlords to ensure that we have a fair system that does not punish landlords as a deflection from the failure of Governments to build sufficient housing stock here in Wales. But I commend the report. Thank you.

Siân Gwenllian (Plaid Cymru, Arfon)

I too welcome this opportunity to contribute to this very important debate and to discuss some of the recommendations that were made by the committee in its report. I too wasn't a member of the committee throughout the inquiry, so I didn't hear all of the evidence submitted.

I will start with recommendation 4. The commitment to extend the Welsh housing quality standard is a positive step, but of course we need to have clear timescales and steps outlined, otherwise there's a danger that the progress that we want to see won’t happen. So, the Welsh Government does need to explain when the reviews will be undertaken, what they will consider, and how the decisions will be made about extending the standard to the private rented sector. But it is about time that this sector has higher standards, to safeguard tenants from poor standards that can be damaging to their health and well-being.

In recommendation 5 there is mention made of developing a property MOT to ensure fitness of habitation as part of the licensing regime with the Rent Smart Wales programme, and I believe that this is an important step. A property MOT could provide crucial consistency in ensuring that homes do meet basic safety and living standards. But once again, we must emphasise the need for timely action, particularly before the next landlord registration cycle in 2026. Annual updates on progress will ensure accountability and enable the Senedd to monitor this aspect closely.

Recommendation 6 mentions the possibility of allowing tenants facing no-fault evictions to retain the last two months' rent as compensation. Now, whilst I support that, I strongly believe that we need to go far further to safeguard tenants, and with the UK Government seeking to eradicate no-fault evictions, through the Renters' Rights Bill, there is a genuine danger that tenants in Wales will be facing weaker rights than those in England. Of course, under the Renting Homes (Wales) Act 2016, tenants have a six-month period of warning by landlords, which is inadequate to meet the financial and the emotional impact of having to leave a home. So, I would like to ask the Cabinet Secretary whether she is entirely convinced that tenants in Wales won't be losing out as compared to tenants in England—as well as in Scotland, of course—as a result of the new legislation that is being discussed at present in Westminster. Are there implications in terms of what's being discussed in Westminster with regard to equality for tenants across these nations?

Recommendation 10 is to be welcomed. It mentions the issue of having a guarantor and the need for months' worth of rent ahead of time. That has a disproportionate impact on low-income households and younger tenants. These practices do create a two-tier rental market, with those with fewer financial resources facing significant barriers in accessing a home. So, I do welcome this recommendation, and I do think that the Welsh Government needs to regulate urgently to ensure that these barriers are eradicated, by promoting fairness and equality of access to housing.

I'll just mention one further matter maybe, if I have time. Using compulsory purchase powers more widely to tackle poor practices by landlords is a very pragmatic approach and a crucial one, I believe. But, of course, do local authorities have sufficient resources to pursue this approach, and is there sufficient legal expertise to enact these powers effectively? One idea that has been mentioned in committee is establishing a national, or regional, legal expertise bank to provide the support that is very much needed, and to ensure that landlords are entirely accountable.

Dirprwy Lywydd, the private rented sector is a home for some of the most vulnerable households in Wales. The recommendations in this report do offer some routes towards genuine improvements, but only if they are implemented, and implemented as a matter of urgency and in a firm manner. So, I'm sure that the committee will be continuing to hold the Welsh Government to account, to ensure that tenants in Wales do have access to safe, secure and affordable homes. Thank you.

Carolyn Thomas (Labour, North Wales)

Thank you to the Local Government and Housing Committee for bringing forward this important debate today. I was a member for a short while, before moving on. There isn't enough social housing, so the gap is having to be filled by the private rental sector, which is really supposed to be interim or transient as a provision. Private landlords have asked for help with supporting tenancies. There's usually a housing officer or housing team in the social housing sector that helps with issues arising from tenancies of people with particular needs. The housing support grant has been invaluable in funding that type of wraparound support.

Today I would like to focus on pets. They are part of people's families, they provide companionship and comfort, they help alleviate loneliness, they provide motivation and purpose, and are beneficial for the owner's mental health and well-being. Yet, having a pet can make finding accommodation extremely difficult. There are already many barriers to renting: credit checks; needs for references and guarantors, who themselves need to own a home; the huge lump sum deposit upfront, which is completely unaffordable; and then there are the demands of 'no children', 'no pets', 'no universal credit', which doesn’t consider that some people are working and claiming, and some people are unable to work.

The Dogs Trust Cymru said that Welsh Government statistics showed that 52 per cent of households have a pet, including one in three households with dogs. Despite these figures, a survey showed that only 8 per cent of renters in Wales say that their home was advertised as pet-friendly. The shortage of pet-friendly housing has meant that many pet owners have had to give up their pets and our rescue centres are full.

The Dogs Trust had 118 people enquire about handing their dog over to their rehoming centre in Wales between December 2022 and the end of March 2023, citing a change in accommodation or rental agreement. Worryingly, the committee heard from several stakeholders that some people faced with this decision opt to stay with their pets and end up actually becoming homeless as a result. And Crisis, the homeless charity, told the committee:

'One of our members wasn't able to take a place purely because it had a no-pet policy. She has a dog that has been her only companion through the most difficult time in her life, and she actually chose to sleep in a car, rather than take a place.'

And I’m sure that many of us dog lovers in this Chamber can empathise with this lady at how difficult that decision must have been.

I’d like to mention the Freedom project, which is an important service that the Dogs Trust provide, supporting those fleeing domestic abuse. There’s a strong link between abuse to pets and abuse to people, with perpetrators often using the bond between pets and the victim to intimidate and control their partner. Families and individuals fleeing domestic abuse are usually unable to take their pets with them into refuges, or private rented housing, so, in many cases, they’re reluctant to leave the home until they know that there’s somewhere safe for their pets, putting themselves at risk and in danger.

Discrimination against pet owners also ignores the reality that, on average, landlords can expect to gain more financially from renting to tenants with pets than they can spend on associated expenses. Therefore, renting to pet owners can be financially viable and beneficial for landlords. Most people that have a pet actually stay in their accommodation longer, so it’s much more beneficial for landlords. Nearly half of private landlords charge a pet rent surcharge—on average an additional £29.10 a month. Survey findings also show that renters with pets, as I said, stayed longer, so it is better for the landlord. And while the Welsh Government has claimed that the RHA forbids landlords from unreasonably refusing requests for pets, there is no guidance as to what would be deemed reasonable, with this having the potential to differ between landlords and prospective tenants.

While it could be argued that tenants could challenge unreasonable decisions by taking their landlords to court, this is not likely to be something that they will do because it’s expensive and is a time-consuming process. I know that Welsh Government have looked at owners having pet insurance to cover any damage as a possible way forward. However, tinkering with payments that can be charged by landlords does not go far enough, and to me, I don’t think it’s acceptable. I don’t believe that finding more ways for renters to be out of pocket is the fair or reasonable course of action. We must protect pet owners from unnecessary discrimination if we are able to increase the number of households available to rent with pets. Thank you.

Sam Rowlands (Conservative, North Wales)

I’d first like to acknowledge the work put in on this report by the Chairman, in particular, of the committee, but also by the committee as a whole. I was a member of the committee for a short while, whilst this piece of work was being considered, and I’m sure I’m sorely missed on that committee these days, but more than ably replaced there by Peter Fox, doing his work on the committee.

I just wanted to—. It just struck me, in Carolyn Thomas’s opening words, framing the private rental sector as a stopgap whilst not enough social housing is in place—. The private rental sector is a significant and really important part of housing here in Wales. There are 215,000 private rental properties in Wales, with 103,000 landlords registered with Rent Smart Wales. It’s far from just a stopgap. Whilst perhaps there’s a desire from the benches opposite for more social housing to be in place, it’s a fundamental, important part of our tenure. [Interruption.] Sorry, Carolyn.

Carolyn Thomas (Labour, North Wales)

What I was trying to say is, during the committee, we heard from private landlords that they felt that they were filling the social care gap, in a way, with the private rental sector, because there’s a lack of, a shortage of, social housing, and that’s when they were asking for that wraparound support, perhaps, for their tenancies as well, that they can’t always provide.

Sam Rowlands (Conservative, North Wales)

Okay. Thank you for clarifying that, and I apologise if I was a bit antagonistic with my opening comments there. But I think it is really important, though, that we do make sure that the private rental sector is valued not just in word but in deed as well.

I just want to focus perhaps on a couple of recommendations that are within the report that we’re debating here today. But before I do go on to those recommendations, it is worth recognising the continued demand for private rented homes here in Wales. I think the Zoopla website shows that there are 23 enquiries for every available home to rent in Wales, so 23 times the number of enquiries against the actual properties that are available, which is now three times the pre-pandemic rate. So, we're seeing since the COVID-19 pandemic that demand for the private rental sector increase significantly, but, at the same time, we are seeing fewer private rental homes: a reduction of 1,746 since 2021 here in Wales. So, on that point, I think it’s really important that Welsh Government are very careful with some of the measures they seek to implement and that we don’t see a further reduction in the number of private rental homes available to people up and down Wales as a result of any of those measures.

And one of those particular measures that I think I’d urge some caution on is, actually, recommendation 6 within the report, which seeks to explore the feasibility of enabling tenants who are subject to no-explanation repossessions to be able to retain the last two months’ rent of their tenancy. In my view, this has the potential to unfairly penalise responsible landlords who are working within the law, and it seems to ignore the fact that there are already stringent safeguards in place, such as the rule that no-explanation repossession notices are unable to be served in the first six months of a tenancy, and, not only that, there are already rules that add that tenants are required to have six months' notice for any repossession notice when that notice is issued. So, I’d just urge some caution around recommendation 6 in particular. And I was a little surprised to see that recommendation written in that way within the report, because I think there are some potential unintended consequences if that is not thought through carefully.

There are some recommendations that the committee has put forward that are certainly to be welcomed, and certainly recommendation 1, I think, is really important for Welsh Government to take on board swiftly, to outline a vision for the role of the PRS, so they know that they are valued, as I said in the opening of my contribution here today. I think that positive message to the sector is always welcomed by them and I think the date set in our recommendations report—October 2025—will need to be adhered to.

Also, recommendation 12 is important. I think it touches on the point that Carolyn Thomas was mentioning about that work with local government to increase local authority inspection capacity to improve those housing standards in the private rented sector, so we can see that better support from local authorities with the sector as well. Far too often, we do see local government given responsibilities without adequate support, including the funding of those policy decisions, so, I think, if that recommendation is properly followed through, that would be welcome for the sector. But I’m grateful for the opportunity to contribute in the Chamber here this afternoon, Deputy Presiding Officer.

David Rees (Labour, Aberavon)

And I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Housing and Local Government, Jayne Bryant.

Jayne Bryant (Labour, Newport West)

Diolch, Deputy Llywydd, and I'd like to, firstly, thank John Griffiths, as Chair of the Local Government and Housing Committee, and those past and present members for contributing today. I know that it does show a lot when we have past members of the committee and those ones new to it to contribute to the debate, but I do very much value the committee for holding the inquiry into the private rented sector.

Deputy Llywydd, I welcome the recommendations that are set out in the report, and our published response to the committee sets out the action we propose to take. I'm pleased to say that we have accepted or accepted in principle all bar one of the recommendations and conclusions of the committee. The only recommendation that we have not accepted is due to the housing support grant not being given directly to private landlords and the funding being tenure-neutral to support all those who may be at risk of homelessness. As set out in my evidence to the committee, the private rented sector plays a vital part in providing almost a fifth of homes for people in Wales. And I'm keen to see how we can support landlords who provide high-quality, safe and affordable accommodation to feel confident to stay and invest in this sector for the future.

The cost-of-living crisis, inflation growth in 2023 and interest rate rises have impacted on both landlords and tenants over recent years. Across Wales, we have seen rents and demand for rental properties significantly increasing, as some landlords have looked to leave the sector. Tenants too have been more reluctant to move within or indeed out of the private rented sector. Data held by Rent Smart Wales shows a steady increase in property registrations during the second five-year registration period, with the average portfolio size of landlords also increasing. So, there are some positive indicators starting to emerge.

Through the introduction of the Renting Homes (Wales) Act 2016, we have secured better consistency in the way that private rented properties are let, ensuring that tenants have written terms and conditions, better security of tenure, with a six-month notice period and certainty that rents can only be increased once every 12 months. Ultimately, what matters to tenants is having the time to plan. Whether a reason is specified or a notice or not, the need to move is not the fault of the tenant. However, I do recognise the challenge of securing an affordable rental property, particularly for lower income households who are in receipt of local housing allowance support. To help address this, we launched our Leasing Scheme Wales in 2022, and I recently wrote to all Members to highlight the benefits of the scheme. To date, we have secured 343 properties, with a current pipeline of a further 165 anticipated to be signed up shortly. Of these, 60 per cent were previously empty properties that have now been brought back into beneficial use. They provide affordable rental homes for lower income households, with the rent capped at the local housing allowance rate.

Evidence submitted to the committee reflects similar responses submitted during the development of our White Paper on adequate housing, fair rent and affordability. It should be noted that a number of the recommendations in the committee's report, as the committee Chair mentioned, for example, regarding property MOTs, renting with pets and guarantors, are all aspects set out in our White Paper, which I published for consultation on 24 October and closes on 31 January.

Many Members have raised the issue of pets today and I know that this is something that is widely thought of by Members in the Senedd. We have set out our proposals in the White Paper in respect of insurance provision for pet damage; this is the same approach as is being taken in England in the Renters' Rights Bill. In 2021, 42 per cent of landlords surveyed by the National Residential Landlords Association on behalf of Battersea not currently renting to pet owners stated that they would allow a pet in the property if insurance cover was able to be in place. This approach could potentially see more landlords willing to rent to pet owners.

In my response to the committee's report, I've identified that we will reflect on the evidence—

Carolyn Thomas (Labour, North Wales)

Will you take an intervention?

Jayne Bryant (Labour, Newport West)

Of course.

Carolyn Thomas (Labour, North Wales)

I am worried about the added expense of insurance, especially if it's taken out by the landlord and then charged to the renters, and also if the renters themselves haven't got that money. So, I was wondering if you could consider it further, going forward.

Jayne Bryant (Labour, Newport West)

Diolch, Carolyn. I know that this is something that you have raised. As I said, this is the same approach that's being taken in England in the Renters' Rights Bill. I think with regard to—. We've heard from organisations that talk about that the damage that pets do—or the alleged damage that pets do—is actually very small. It's the other way around, really, isn't it? That is something I'm really keen to make sure that landlords know, through things like Rent Smart Wales. So, on that point, I have asked that we have written, and we have written, through Rent Smart Wales, to contact landlords to highlight the latest research that shows that the cost of any damage in properties rented to those with pets is less than the damage that is caused by those without pets. So, I think that it's sometimes about making sure that those messages get through.

I'm aware of the calls from Members of the Siambr to reconsider rent control measures. We've given considerable thought to this area, and the evidence we have received suggests that rent control measures could have an adverse effect on our core ambitions. They could lead to a reduction in the supply of rental properties, an increased risk of homelessness and higher rents for newly let properties. It's very possible that rent controls would have a detrimental impact on the very people that such measures should be protecting. So, instead, and as set out in our White Paper, we're keen to gather more robust data on private market rents. We also want to look at the ways in which this data can be suitably put into the public domain to allow better understanding of rental levels in particular areas, which will inform better any potential future policy measures. We're also seeking views, as part of the consultation, around proposals for a rent adjudication process, should a tenant consider that a rent increase is unfair. The White Paper also sets out how we're exploring the potential to further increase affordable rental supply, through allowing a property owner to obtain a refund on the higher rate of land transaction tax where a property has been purchased and signed up to Leasing Scheme Wales.

We await the outcome of the White Paper consultation, which closes, as I said, at the end of this month, after which we will be setting out the next steps on taking these measures forward. I hope that that reassures the Siambr that, as a Government, we are listening and acting on evidence from landlords, tenants and wider housing stakeholders. We have invested and continue to invest in increasing the housing supply and tackling homelessness. The draft budget has included an uplift to support the continued roll-out and uptake of Leasing Scheme Wales.

Deputy Llywydd, we have laid strong foundations, with increased tenants’ rights and improved housing standards already in place through the Renting Homes (Wales) Act. We continue, through the White Paper, to work on developing the building blocks to ensure a vibrant private rented sector fit for the future—a future in which tenants have greater certainty and access to high-quality safe and affordable rented properties. This timely work of the Local Government and Housing Committee in undertaking the inquiry into the private rented sector is most welcome, and I thank them once again for their work in this area. Diolch yn fawr.

David Rees (Labour, Aberavon)

I call now on John Griffiths, the Chair of the committee, to reply to the debate.

John Griffiths (Labour, Newport East)

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I thank all Members, and particularly the Cabinet Secretary, for their responses and contributions in this debate today. May I thank Peter Fox for his contribution in trying to emphasise the need to strike that appropriate balance in terms of tenants and landlords and be fair to both of those? That’s certainly the approach that the committee wants to take and, I hope, has taken with the report overall, which does state that that is exactly what we think should be the case in Wales, and we must strive towards that—Welsh Government must strive towards that.

Obviously, we want private landlords to stay in the market, to provide those options for renters in Wales, and we want tenants to have a very good experience in the private rented sector, in terms of quality, security and safety. I’m very pleased that Peter has come on to the committee, given the wealth of experience that Peter has as an ex-leader of Monmouthshire local authority, because that experience and that knowledge is already proving very useful to the committee indeed. So, thanks very much for that, Peter, and we'll certainly continue, I think, as a committee to strive to seek that balance that you emphasise.

Siân Gwenllian emphasised quality in provision. That must be right, mustn’t it? At the heart of what we want to see is top-quality private rented sector accommodation here in Wales. Siân was supportive of the recommendations that would seek to ensure that, extending the Welsh housing quality standard, but wanting that done to an appropriate timescale, emphasising the importance for the health and well-being of tenants. Whenever we talk about housing, we talk about the importance for health and well-being, and there's a wealth of evidence that makes that connection. Siân also mentioned the property MOT approach and, again, the need to make sure that that's taken forward effectively, and also protections around no-fault evictions.

I think there has been a lively debate about this, hasn't there, in terms of the situation in Scotland, the situation in England, and Welsh Government's view that perhaps there's not that much difference between Welsh Government's approach and what we see in England and Scotland in practice, in reality, in as much that it is possible to evict, for example, on the grounds of needing the property for the use of the landlord, or to sell on the open market, when perhaps that might not be the case. So, in a way, it depends on how much faith you have in human nature in terms of the landlords.

But I think what we are concerned about is that there is no disadvantage in practice to tenants in Wales, and we've heard what Welsh Government has said about the two six-month periods. We ask that there is an exploration of the two months' rent in as much as that would be very useful to tenants in terms of finding an alternative property, if they do have to leave their home. That would go some way further to addressing the concerns that Siân Gwenllian expressed.

Can I just say as well to Siân that I think the issues around compulsory purchase are very important in the round in terms of housing? We really do need to be confident that those powers will be used, when appropriate, that the capacity will be there in local authorities, that the confidence will be there in local authorities. It's very relevant to the empty homes situation. And if we are to convert more of those city, town-centre properties to housing, knowing that it's very difficult to continue with them for retail use, then those compulsory purchase powers are absolutely necessary.

In terms of pets, Dirprwy Lywydd, a lot of points were raised. I think Carolyn Thomas effectively added to what I said in terms of the committee's views, and we now look forward to seeing what the Cabinet Secretary is able to do to give greater confidence, because we're not convinced that what's proposed at the moment would be as advantageous to tenants and potential tenants with pets as the situation in England under the Renters' Rights Bill, and that's why I said what I said about our approach as a committee to the LCM, and wanting the English provisions applied here in Wales.

I can see you looking at me very intensely, Dirprwy Lywydd.

David Rees (Labour, Aberavon)

I'm being generous as your time has well gone.

John Griffiths (Labour, Newport East)

You have indeed been generous. Can I just say, in closing, that we're very mindful of the need to strike the appropriate balance in terms of tenure, and, as a committee, we would like to see many more properties available for affordable social rent? We believe that perhaps 60,000 new affordable homes for social rent should be built over the next five years or so, which is a major challenge, we understand. But in terms of the overall balance, and the role of the private sector, we feel that the balance has got out of kilter, and in terms of the vision that Members emphasise that we need from Welsh Government, that must be an important part, we believe, in moving forward.

David Rees (Labour, Aberavon)

The proposal is to note the committee's report. Does any Member object? No. The motion is therefore agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

6. Welsh Conservatives Debate: New UK Government's first six months

David Rees (Labour, Aberavon)

Item 6 today is the Welsh Conservatives' debate on the new UK Government's first six months. I call on Darren Millar to move the motion.

Darren Millar (Conservative, Clwyd West)

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I move the motion on the order paper.

Darren Millar (Conservative, Clwyd West)

Before last year's general election we were constantly told that Labour Governments at both ends of the M4 would be great for Wales. But what we've actually ended up with is a double whammy. Broken promises and failing policies coming down the M4, alongside a passive, silent Welsh Labour Government unwilling to offer a squeak of criticism or lift a finger to defend the interests of the people of Wales.

Let's start with our pensioners. As we move towards what we now know to be an exceptionally cold start to the winter, the new UK Labour Government decided to remove the winter fuel payment from 0.5 million pensioners here in Wales—0.5 million people—many of whom are vulnerable, who are now facing a choice between heating and eating this winter. A cut that, by the Labour Party's own researchers' predictions, would lead to around 4,000 deaths. It's no wonder that ‘it will be freezing this Christmas’ managed to get to No. 1 in the charts in the middle of December.

Now, the Scottish Labour Party at least stood up for their people and criticised the UK Labour Government's decision, yet here in Wales the Welsh Labour Party said nothing. Not a dickie bird. And instead of stepping in to provide its own Welsh winter fuel allowance, they did nothing. They are the 'say nothing and do nothing' Government.

There was also radio silence, of course, on the issue faced by Women Against State Pension Inequality. Up until a few weeks ago, Labour politicians in Wales were falling over themselves to pose for selfies. They made social media posts promising to support the WASPI women, including at events right here in Cardiff Bay, outside the Senedd on the steps. And then, having won the election, Sir Keir Starmer, no longer needing their support, has dismissed them, with a glib comment about reading their mail and noting their comments. And those very same Welsh Labour MPs and MSs who'd been posing for selfies suddenly did nothing, and they said nothing.

And then there's our farmers. They've received similar treatment. Before the election, Sir Keir promised to support agriculture. And our very own Welsh Labour Cabinet Secretary was happy to visit farmers’ markets, cameras in tow, of course, to promise that a Labour Government would stand up for Welsh farmers. But what happened afterwards, following the election, was a hammer blow to rural communities, with changes to inheritance tax that amount to little more than a family farm land grab. And where was the Welsh Labour Government after this attack on rural communities across Wales? Where were they? Well, once again, they said nothing and they did nothing.

Our Welsh rail system remains underfunded, due to a lack of Barnett consequentials for HS2 spending in England. The Welsh Conservatives in this Senedd have been raising this issue for years. We were even happy to criticise our own UK Conservative Government on this. Why did we do that? Well, because unlike others in this Chamber, we put the interests of the people of Wales before the interests of our political party. Now, at that time, of course, the Welsh Labour Party and Members, all of them in this Chamber, they agreed with us. They joined us in calling for that money to come to Wales. Yet as soon as the election was won, the UK Labour Government dismissed the idea, and the Welsh Labour Government turned down the volume, and desperately went to a bargain-basement deal with an attempt to secure some scraps from Rachel Reeves's table.

And then there's our economy. High-street businesses, pubs and family shops in Wales were already suffering from higher business rates than elsewhere in the UK. Yet now, on top of these challenges, they've got to contend with Labour's national insurance rise. A tax on jobs. What was Welsh Labour's response? Well, unfortunately, the pattern of behaviour continued. They did nothing, and they said nothing. We were promised financial stability, but our economy is tanking due to a budget that's pushed up the costs of borrowing beyond the 2022 levels, and at this time there's no pandemic and there's no Liz Truss to blame either.

And how we all laughed at Sir Keir Starmer's promises about standards in public life. 'We're going to clean up politics', he said, and yet we've seen a transport Minister resign after failing to disclose a fraud conviction, despite being in charge of a police force, and we've seen an anti-corruption Minister—I'll repeat that, an anti-corruption Minister—resign amid questions about an expensive property linked to a murderous regime—a regime, I may add, run by a relative with family reunions reportedly taking place in Moscow as a guest of Putin. And we've witnessed Ministers, including the Prime Minister, grabbing free clothes, concert tickets and spectacles, like contestants on a game show.

On all of this, our Welsh Labour Government has said nothing and you have done nothing either. So, Cabinet Secretary, you may not be prepared to do anything on these things, to speak out and to act, but we Welsh Conservatives are not prepared to sit on the sidelines. We will always stand up, speak up and defend the interests of Wales. We will stand up for Welsh pensioners. We will vote to support a Welsh winter fuel payment. We'll stand up for our farmers. We'll stand up for our local businesses, and we will stand up for our public services here too, because under Welsh Labour our NHS is broken. More than 24,000 people are waiting two years for treatment while the Welsh Labour Government remains utterly incapable of delivering improvements, in spite of promise after promise.

Under Labour, our education system in Wales is also broken: one in five children shamefully are leaving primary schools unable to read and write properly. Under Welsh Labour, our transport system in Wales is also broken. We've got 20 mph speed limits, a freeze on many of the road building projects, and a whole failure to develop new rail projects, including projects like the north Wales electrification, which has been completely abandoned. Farmers, pensioners, small business owners, motorists, rail passengers, parents and patients are crying out for change here in Wales, and we Welsh Conservatives are putting this Welsh Labour Government on notice: your time is coming to an end. And after 26 years of Labour failure, move over, so that we can fix Wales.

David Rees (Labour, Aberavon)

I have selected the amendment to the motion. I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Welsh Language to move formally amendment 1, tabled in the name of Jane Hutt.

Mark Drakeford (Labour, Cardiff West)

Formally.

John Griffiths (Labour, Newport East)

I think we've had the usual la-la land, if I may put it politely, contribution from the Welsh Conservatives to launch this. I think their real problem, Dirprwy Lywydd, is that people's memories are not as short as they think they are. When they talk about all these issues—not standing up for Wales, allegations about sleaze—people well remember those long Tory years, the 14 years of austerity, all the series of failings that they showed on all the things that Darren Millar has highlighted as failings that he sees at the current time. We had all those years with all of that writ large. People are not going to forget about that as quickly as you'd like them to, I'm afraid, Darren. Those memories will live with people for an awful long time and maybe that's got something to do with why you haven't got a single MP in Wales. Perhaps you ought to reflect upon that before you make the contributions that you made earlier.

Darren Millar (Conservative, Clwyd West)

Will you take an intervention?

John Griffiths (Labour, Newport East)

I will.

Darren Millar (Conservative, Clwyd West)

I'm very grateful to you for doing that. Would I remind you that you should be humble enough to acknowledge that the share of the vote for the Labour Party in Wales also went down at the last general election? So, it was a rather lacklustre performance, if I may say, in terms of the share of the vote for your party. Do you accept that that is largely because of the utter despair and dissatisfaction that the people of Wales feel about the performance of this lacklustre Government?

John Griffiths (Labour, Newport East)

Darren, you haven't got a single MP in Wales. You know, wake up and smell the coffee. You need a radically different approach to the one that you've been pursuing here in Wales, let alone what your UK colleagues did over those long years of austerity. We thought, actually, on this side that your leadership might bring a change of approach, but I'm afraid all we've heard so far is more of the same, more that we'd got used to from your predecessor. It's not going to wash, it's not good enough, Darren, and you really need to rethink.

What I really wanted to address, Dirprwy Lywydd, was Gordon—[Interruption.] What I really wanted to talk about, actually, was Gordon Brown's report, which I am very keen to see implemented here in Wales, because I think it offers us real possibilities in terms of addressing the terrible inequality that we still see—regional economic inequality, social inequality—across the UK. Countries like Wales need real support and assistance and partnership from the UK Government to build our economy and deal with those inequalities, and Gordon Brown's report offers us a blueprint for some of the most important ways forward—things like bringing more public sector jobs here to Wales, relocated from elsewhere in the UK, mainly the south-east of England.

We want to see more investment in infrastructure, for example in rail, and we do really need to address the historic lack of proper investment in our rail industry in Wales that we've seen over very many years. And we need support for our clusters: for us locally in Newport, for example, cyber security, the semiconductor industry, and the transition that we need to see to green steel. There are many important aspects to that Gordon Brown report, Dirprwy Lywydd, and, of course, they're not all economic; some of them are about dealing with the imbalances of power in terms of our constitution, and where responsibility lies for service delivery and strategy and policy development. So, there are many important aspects to that report. It was a serious piece of work—[Interruption.]—and I hope that we will see early progress in taking it forward. I give way to Sam Kurtz.

Samuel Kurtz (Conservative, Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire)

Thank you. We're obviously commemorating six months of Starmer's leadership. You mention the Gordon Brown report. Can you point to one thing within that report that's progressed in that six months of Keir Starmer's premiership?

John Griffiths (Labour, Newport East)

It's very early days, Sam, isn't it—[Interruption.] We are talking about six months—[Interruption.]

David Rees (Labour, Aberavon)

Let the Member respond to the intervention, please.

John Griffiths (Labour, Newport East)

Be sensible and realistic, Sam. We've already heard from our Cabinet Secretaries here: there's been a sea change in relationships between the Welsh Government and the UK Government, and that is very welcome. You really shouldn't try and dismiss that lightly, because we had terrible relationships and a lack of true partnership for so many years under your colleagues at Westminster. Already we've seen a sea change, and that is delivering and will deliver.

What I'd like to say, Dirprwy Lywydd, in closing is that work that Gordon Brown and his colleagues did is a serious body of work. It really does need to be implemented, and if it is implemented here in Wales, we'll see badly needed progress in dealing with those regional inequalities that we see across the UK. It's not just about Wales; it's also about Scotland and the north of England, for example. I hope that we do see that implementation in short order.

Heledd Fychan (Plaid Cymru, South Wales Central)

Well, it's ironic, isn’t it, that it's the Conservatives who are bringing forward this debate today, as we know how damaging their austerity agenda was for individuals and communities in Wales, and the fact that our communities are still feeling the impacts of that agenda.

After all, it was the Conservatives who were responsible for the mess of Brexit, which is still having a detrimental impact on our economic performance and has undermined so much trade and industry here in Wales. They too are responsible for normalising the need for foodbanks and for introducing damaging and cruel policies that have led to so many living in poverty, unable to afford life’s essentials.

In terms of HS2, they should have presented a fair funding settlement for Wales and delivered the funding owed to Wales. Little wonder, therefore, that voters in Wales decided that no Conservative Members of Parliament from Anglesey to Monmouthshire deserved to keep their seats.

But although we remember the legacy of the Conservative Government, a legacy still felt today, the focus of today’s debate is the current Westminster Government, and despite the Conservatives’ hypocrisy in tabling this debate, we will be supporting the motion today, as we too share the concerns expressed in it.

Labour did promise the people of Wales a change, and many people across the country voted for them, because they craved change for the better. Is there any wonder, then, that so many feel that they have been betrayed by Labour, bearing in mind that the situation for them has changed for the worse? They question why Labour wasn't clearer before the election about some of the policies that have been implemented since they came to power.

We've heard about some of those examples, but also there was the refusal to eradicate the cruel two-child cap that has led to 30 per cent of children in Wales living in poverty, the withdrawal of the winter fuel allowance from half a million pensioners—something that even George Osborne, the architect of austerity, didn't consider, and something that has pushed so many of our pensioners now into poverty this year alone.

Second, of course, the increase in employer national insurance contributions without any certainty of a full refund by the Treasury, which has left our universities, GP surgeries and third sector organisations facing a very fraught financial situation. The changes to inheritance tax reflect a lack of understanding of our agricultural communities; the u-turn in terms of WASPI women.

It's becoming increasingly apparent that the relationship between the Welsh Government and the Westminster Government is not, truth be told, a partnership, because how can you talk about a balanced partnership when one side ignores the other on matters of such importance to Wales? For example, we haven't received even a penny of HS2 funding in the budget, despite the fact that the current Secretary of State used to agree with us that we should receive the funding owed to Wales.

There has been no movement at all on the promises to devolve justice and the Crown Estate, with no desire by either side of the 'partnership in power' to act on measures recommended in various reports and a whole host of enquiries for some time now.

In the meantime, we have seen the Scottish Government using their powers to respond progressively and robustly to some of these issues, so there is a clear contrast to the Welsh Government's approach, which seeks to make excuses for Westminster's failings, rather than standing up for Wales.

So, I hope, in the response from the Government this afternoon, that we will hear what discussions have been had and will happen, and what our Government's expectations are in terms of ensuring that Wales receives what it's owed on those things that Labour used to agree with us on, that they used to call for and demand—what movement will there be? Because Wales is losing out here if we don't get not only what we call for, but what we deserve.

Peter Fox (Conservative, Monmouth)

Members, it's very clear that Keir Starmer's Labour Government has been a total disaster in so many ways over the first six months, as was so eloquently described by my leader, be it their treatment of vulnerable pensioners—as we know, the removal of the winter fuel allowance—or the huge hit to businesses and employees through increases to employer national insurance, and, of course, the massively damaging proposed changes to agricultural inheritance tax, an area that I'm going to focus more on.

The farming sector is so fundamental to the economy and fabric of the UK and most definitely here in Wales. It should be acknowledged just how much of a difficult time farmers have faced in recent years, and continue to feel under threat. Our Welsh farmers continue to face and live with the devastating impacts of TB, the rise in the cost of doing business, increased regulation, red tape, ever-growing Government expectations, yet all they want to do is feed us. They're not in it for the money, and that is a fact.

Our farming community now has to deal with two Labour Governments on either end of the M4 who either do not care or do not understand the needs of their rural communities. The entire point of agricultural inheritance tax relief is to give certainty to farmers that they will be able to continue to keep their family-run farm in the family and pass their legacy down to their children. This allows the historical nature of family farms to continue in perpetuity, enabling future generations to continue to trade and to continue to feed us.

Farmers, on paper, are often simplistically seen as asset rich, but we know that they are really cash poor. Given the very marginal income profile of the majority of farms, anyone who inherits a farms is unlikely to be able to meet the inheritance tax liability without selling their farm, or a large part of it, or trying to take out extensive borrowing that they wouldn't be able to service out of the modest incomes they generate.

There are other consequences of the agricultural property relief change as well, as many farm businesses have to rely on rented additional land to remain viable. If the changes to APR take place in 2026, it is expected that the supply of available land to rent in Wales would be severely reduced, meaning that many farmers would lose access to land needed to maintain their business viability. All of these things will threaten our food security and the fabric of our rural communities, and all that goes with that, including the damage to our culture and to our language.

I've been concerned by the number of people who support this tax change, and who have little or no experience of the countryside, who have branded APR as a loophole. It's not a loophole—it's a carefully designed policy that was designed to protect Britain’s family farms from being broken up. And thanks to this new Labour Government, our farmers are facing the very real prospect of having to do just that, to break those farms up. To make matters worse, the president of the National Farmers Union has said that the Chancellor has refused to engage with the union on these inheritance tax changes since she announced the budget.

The First Minister has previously said she is happy to be unpopular with Keir Starmer. If so, we need her to stand up for our Welsh farmers and reject this assault on this important industry. Time and time again, the Welsh Labour Government fails to stand up for the people of Wales, be it changing their minds on how much Wales should get from HS2, failing to condemn Rachel Reeves for taking winter fuel payments off the most vulnerable in society, and I expect today Welsh Labour will fail to stand up for the farming community.

Dirprwy Lywydd, we have the chance today to send a real message to the Labour Government in Westminster that the Senedd will not stand by and accept the negative impact of UK Labour’s decisions being levelled on Welsh people, be it pensioners, businesses or farmers. These groups should feel valued and respected and have faith that those they elect have their backs. However, it doesn't feel like that here under Labour.

Joyce Watson (Labour, Mid and West Wales)

Isn't it interesting how short the memory is and how things are being projected? There is £14 million in the budget for farmers. Anyone would think we were giving nothing.

I'll move on to looking at some of the decisions that have been taken. We know for certain, it's well recorded, that what the Tories really wanted to do when they were in power, and set about doing it quite well, was to not protect the workers, the poorest paid workers, but to try their very best to make sure that trade unions couldn't operate in the way that was most effective for their members, and to deny trade union voices being heard by not allowing paid facility time, by increasing the threshold for a ballot so that those voices could be heard. That didn't happen, of course, in Wales because we protected people from that deliberate attack on working people.

So, we move on. The gig economy encouraged widespread misuse of zero-hours contracts. Companies thrived while workers were denied basic rights like job security, guaranteed hours, sick pay or holiday entitlement. Workers with precarious livelihoods joined the realms of foodbank users, another shameful Tory legacy. When that party opposite come into power, there were 35 foodbanks across Britain, because mass hunger wasn't the issue that it has become. Now Britain has 2,800 foodbanks, with over 3 million food parcels deliver in the last year. Somehow they managed to have inequality, hunger and poverty becoming the norm under their rule. And it's going to take time to change that. I'm glad that the Children’s Wellbeing and Schools Bill sets out a path to do that.

The Employment Rights Bill will bring much-needed change. It sets out how to ensure gig economy workers are classified properly and granted the rights they deserve, including paid leave and fair wages. It supports flexible working, helping workers who were at the mercy of employers who refused to consider those requests, and amongst those, lots of them will be carers and they will be new parents. It will crack down on companies exploiting young and new staff as cheap or free labour, and it addresses workplace discrimination, with stronger protections for those who speak out against unfair treatment. And it addresses the delays and inefficiencies that have often led to workers being denied any form of justice. Under the previous Government, some businesses exploited the loopholes in the law at the cost of the most vulnerable workers, but those gaps are now going to be closed. This will ensure a fairer, more balanced approach to employment, where all workers can thrive and where their rights are protected. I think that is a huge contrast to what was done under the leadership, or the abuse, if you like, under the Tories for 14 years.

We respect working people. We respect the fact that the lowest paid need our protection, and that is why there is a 5.5 per cent pay rise for teachers in this year's budget. The difference is we've invested. The Tories cut our budget every single year. I never, ever heard anything being said from the benches opposite about those cuts. And yet, despite that, we've managed to build new schools. We've improved the fabric of the buildings of our housing association properties. We put in the minimum requirement that we would expect people in social housing—the condition of that housing—to reach. And we've gone further. We've done the housing quality standard, but we've put it forward again. And, yes, it is nice. I heard someone say, 'Is it nice?' It's wonderful. If you were living in one of those houses, you would think it was really wonderful, to have here somebody who cares about the fabric of the building in which you live and you bring up your children. So, yes, it is nice, to repeat what you've just said.

Natasha Asghar (Conservative, South Wales East)

We've all been told, countless times in the year, in the run-up to the election, that a Labour Government here and a Labour Government in Westminster would be a wonderful thing for the people of Wales. A partnership between two administrations at either side of the M4 would work towards a common goal and bring big benefits, we were told, time and time again. Well, Deputy Presiding Officer, I can honestly say that I think we were all led down the garden path on that one.

Residents right across Wales have been clobbered and punished since Keir Starmer entered No. 10 and there's absolutely no sign of any benefits coming our way. We have seen the winter fuel payments snatched away from pensioners, including nearly 100,000 in my region alone of south-east Wales. This payment was vital to so many people, and that's why our motion today calls for a Welsh winter fuel fund to be created. It can be done, Deputy Presiding Officer, as my leader, Darren Millar said, and Scotland have done it. Yet, this Labour Government here in Wales has so far refused to even contemplate it. We have seen Welsh family farms put at risk, as my colleague Peter Fox mentioned, with a drastic and deeply unfair new inheritance tax, and we have seen businesses, charities, local authorities and many other organisations hampered by the Chancellor's recent national insurance hikes. Not only that, but Labour in Westminster have pretty much given away the sovereignty of the important Chagos Islands, blocked a national inquiry into grooming gangs and released violent criminals back on the streets in a bid to free up prison spaces. That is an awful lot of damage to inflict onto our country in six short months, but hey-ho, do not fear—at least Lord Alli made sure Keir Starmer and his top team were kitted out in their top finery and living the life of luxury as they rolled out these cruel policies.

Many people, I'm sure, will be wondering what the Labour Welsh Government were doing whilst Keir Starmer was busy wreaking havoc in Downing Street. Surely, the First Minister and her Cabinet were shouting from the rooftops for the Prime Minister to abort his plans. Surely, the First Minister here was going to be screaming and saying, 'Do better for Wales', but sadly not. In reality, the Labour-led Welsh Government sat on their hands and watched on from the sidelines silently. I suppose we shouldn't expect anything less, given that the First Minister has as much influence on Keir Starmer as she has on Donald Trump.

With my new education hat on, I was following the UK Government's new plans for education closely last week to see what bold initiatives Labour had up its sleeves. And what was the big plan for England? It's to introduce the Children's Wellbeing and Schools Bill, which will see school standards in England drop to levels seen here in Labour-led Wales, where the average 15-year-old scored lower than pupils in any other UK nation in key subjects. It also involves the scrapping of successful academy schools and the reversion of control back to bureaucrats and away from schools.

When Sir Keir said that Labour in Wales was, indeed, his blueprint for a Labour Government in London, I actually thought he was joking, but clearly not. For more than two and a half decades, Labour has been letting the people of Wales down by failing to tackle the issues that truly matter: health, education, the economy. And now it looks like the Prime Minister wants in on the action to inflict even more damage. If this is just what the first six months of Sir Keir's premiership look like, I sincerely dread to imagine what the next six months have in store for all of us.

Already, the public are indeed sick to the back teeth of a UK Labour Government with six in 10 people out there voting—in fact, who are going to be voting—disapproving, according to a YouGov poll. Voters gave their verdict, with a -45 per cent net approval of Sir Keir's Government. Still a tad generous, if you ask me. Let's hope that, in May 2026, the people of Wales throw this clapped-out Labour Government out of office because you've broken the country and only the Welsh Conservatives can, indeed, fix it. And when the time comes, let's hope that voters give Labour politicians at Westminster their marching orders as well. Thank you.

Sioned Williams (Plaid Cymru, South Wales West)

I want to speak specifically about the reference in the motion today to the winter fuel allowance, because while Plaid Cymru agrees with the contents of the Conservatives’ motion today, in terms of regretting that the Labour Westminster Government has withdrawn this vital support from 0.5 million pensioners in Wales, and while we also agree that the Welsh Government should call on their partners at the other end of the M4 to restore the allowance, it must be said, as we on these benches have previously highlighted time and time again in discussing this issue, the Conservatives’ lack of irony in making this call points to breathtaking levels of amnesia, because the austerity measures designed and implemented by your party when they were in power in Westminster have deepened inequality in our society, have pushed tens of thousands of children and older people into poverty, have exacerbated the hardship felt by people on low incomes—so many of whom are pensioners—while allowing the wealthiest to shoulder the lightest burden. And you can't choose to forget your support for measures that asked the poorest to pay more than their fair share to ensure that the interests of the wealthy were protected, now that that it is politically expedient. The tragic thing is that six months of a Labour Government in Westminster to date are having a similar impact.

We will, therefore, be supporting this motion as we believe that it is disgraceful for any party to follow an ideology of austerity, and it's disgraceful that Westminster’s actions can mean that the Welsh Government has to step in to support the people in Wales who are suffering as a result of policies such as withdrawing the winter fuel allowance and the two-child cap. And we believe that it is also unacceptable that so many households in Wales have lost hundreds of pounds-worth of support, with all of the anxiety and suffering, illness and death that that will cause.

I remember a Member from the Labour benches, who is not here today, giving short shrift to the claims made in the last debate we had on this matter regarding the number of older people who would be at risk of death as a result of this cruel and unwise decision. The figure was 4,000 people according to the older people’s commissioner. We can’t know how many people will die, according to him, because we don’t know yet how cold it will be. Well, many of us on these benches expressed our shock and disappointment at hearing a Labour Member trying to soften the blow of these unwise and unfair policies by arguing over the number of pensioners who are at risk of death. Well, I can say to him today—he's not here—it has been exceptionally cold over the past few weeks, hasn’t it? Our health service was in a state of crisis, with respiratory conditions, which are of course exacerbated by the cold, partly responsible for that.

Since 2010 wealth in the UK has grown in the order of trillions, with the vast majority of these riches going to the wealthiest households, and less than a tenth going to the poorest 50 per cent. As child poverty grows to its highest ever level, the wealth of Britain’s billionaires more than doubled. So, where is the change that we were promised—that things would be different? Instead of taxing those who have the resources and the means to contribute to making things fairer, the Starmer Government has decided that it is the pensioners of Wales, children living in poverty and women born in the 1950s who will have to face the implications of the difficult decisions.

There is another way of doing things: we need to offer hope to voters who are losing faith in the political system, and who see a different face in No. 10 but no change in the way that they are supported. Is there any wonder that the right wing is riding high some six months after Labour won such a large majority? There is a duty on politicians who are concerned about the impact that this is having on Wales to stand up and call for policies that will bring about significant change to the lives of those who have for too long paid the price for political cowardice and neoliberal dogma.

Tom Giffard (Conservative, South Wales West)

I'm pleased to be speaking today on this debate that looks at the first six months of a UK Labour Government. And six months ago, people in Britain voted for the empty slogan of change, but the only change that has been delivered so far is far from the change that they were promised. We've seen economic instability, tax hikes, pensioners punished, alongside broken manifesto promise after broken manifesto promise. Let's look at a few examples. In May of last year, just two months before the general election, Keir Starmer recalled the time he went to Dewsbury and spoke to an 84-year-old woman who had, and I quote, worked all her life and didn't want to get out of bed until midday because she didn't want to put her heating on. Sir Keir said, in the same clip, that this was an awful position for a pensioner to be put in, and then what was the first thing that he did when he got the keys to 10 Downing Street? Cruelly took winter fuel payments away from those very pensioners. And let's not forget that the winter fuel payment was also once a commitment supported by the Welsh Labour Government. But what has happened since? Not one single word of condemnation of this cruel Starmer decision from the Welsh Labour Government. Labour's own figures show that 4,000 pensioners could die as a result of the decision, and we've barely seen a shrug of the shoulders from Labour here since. Absolutely shameful. Let's be clear, that wasn't a difficult decision that had to be taken, as the Labour spinners would have you believe. We heard claims that there was a £22 billion black hole when they assumed office, but the independent Office for Budget Responsibility literally couldn't find it. It was nothing but a smokescreen to pay off the receipt issued to them by the union paymasters after the election.

And guess what else we heard in the election? No more taxes on working people, and then in true socialist style, we heard the taxes on working people were going up, when the UK Government announced an incoming increase to employers national insurance, a jobs tax that has meant fewer jobs and lower wages. Another tax bombshell to fund Labour's spending sprees of other people's money.

And in Wales not only do we have the highest business rates of any UK nation thanks to this Welsh Labour Government, but now they've got to give more of their hard-earned income back to a Government spending copious amounts of taxpayers' cash on socialist vanity projects. And these hikes hit not only our businesses, they hit our charities too. Tenovus Cancer Care's called the rise devastating, warning they'll pay an extra £0.25 million per year towards the increased NI contributions. That's a huge sum, which otherwise would have gone towards vital research needed to save lives.

Dirprwy Lywydd, we don't need to review six months of a Labour Government in Wales because we know how it ends. We've had to endure 25 years of it here. Every single one of our key devolved areas—health, education, the economy, and many more—are failing because of Labour in Wales. And Starmer seems determined to follow the blueprint set here in Cardiff Bay, with one in five children leaving school functionally illiterate in Wales, and the lowest Programme for International Student Assessment scores anywhere in the UK. And in Westminster, Labour want to undo 14 years of Conservative progress in education in England and follow the failed Welsh Government model. Twenty-four thousand people waiting two years or more for treatment in the Welsh NHS, and that's Starmer's blueprint for the NHS in England. And putting a Chancellor in charge of the economy who can't do the maths simply comes straight out of the Welsh Labour playbook. It was, after all, Lee Waters who said of the Welsh Labour Government, 'We don't know what we're doing on the economy.' That applies to the UK Government too.

When someone tells you who you are believe them, and this Welsh Labour Government are not change, this UK Labour Government are not change. The UK Labour Government is a continuation of the 25 years of failed policies imported to Westminster from Cardiff Bay. But Wales needs true change, because Wales is broken, and only the Welsh Conservatives have a plan to fix it. We can be that change, and that change, across the United Kingdom, will start here in Wales. And that's why next year I'll be supporting Darren Millar to become the next First Minister of Wales to deliver the change Wales needs.

Lee Waters (Labour, Llanelli)

I'm sure that's a great comfort to Darren Millar, because the last Tory leader that Tom supported didn't end so well, and he had quite a hand in it, as I recall. This is like being stuck in a bad sixth-form debate, Dirprwy Lywydd. Clearly, the Conservatives have learned nothing, but clearly morale is very low and this is designed this afternoon to gee them up a little bit.

It's worth remembering January 2025 was when we could have had a general election; it was the last date the Conservative Government could have called an election. They could have stayed in office until this month. And the reason they didn't is because they'd run out of puff, because Rishi Sunak was facing yet another challenge from his backbenches, the letters were going in yet again to the 1922 committee to challenge him. He had just announced spending plans that he had no way of funding. The Resolution Foundation said that, if Jeremy Hunt had had to give another budget, they'd have to find £20 billion they simply didn't have.

It's worth reminding ourselves, because this is only six months ago, what a horror story we have lived through for 15 years, of a Conservative Party at war with each other, embarrassing our country and making us a laughing stock abroad—[Interruption.]—to the point that their denial extends to Liz Truss sending a legal letter—

David Rees (Labour, Aberavon)

I would like to hear the contribution of the Member, and the opposition benches, please, can keep quiet so I can do so. Lee.

Lee Waters (Labour, Llanelli)

The denial isn't just in this Chamber from the Welsh Conservatives; we heard last week about Liz Truss sending a legal letter to the Prime Minister because he'd repeated that she'd crashed the economy, something even George Osborne admits, that Liz Truss crashed the economy. They are all over the shop.

In the last six months, we've seen a new Labour Government inherit an absolute mess. Just as a Labour Government in 1945 had to come in and pick up a mess, the Labour Government in 1964 had to come in and pick up a mess, the Labour Government in 1997 had to pick up 18 years of broken public services, again the Labour Government is called upon to rescue a terrible legacy. In the first six months, we have ended the doctors' strike, which they seem to be saying now is giving in to Labour's paymasters. That's how much they value public servants. After 15 years of austerity, keeping down the wages of our key workers, it's taken a Labour Government to deliver a pay rise for key workers and an increase in the minimum wage. We've ended the rail strikes, we've created Great British Energy, we've abandoned the ban on windfarms across England. We've brought in an Employment Rights Bill to support good employers by levelling up standards of fairness at work, and we've brought credibility back to our standing across the world. None of that was happening under the last UK Conservative Government. The people of Wales knew that good and well; that's why they turfed out every single last one of the Welsh Conservative MPs.

But I was reminded when I was thinking about this yesterday of a quote by Paul Johnson. Older viewers may remember Paul Johnson in his later years, when he was a Thatcher cheerleader, but, in his more liberal phase, when he was editor of the New Statesman in the 1960s, Paul Johnson said, and I've often thought about this, about Conservatives,

'on occasions, endearing—but liable to turn very nasty at short notice.'

That's exactly what we've seen in the last few months, egged on by billionaire media moguls, Paul Marshall, who bought GB News, now Elon Musk, whom they're playing footsie with, trying to get the funding that Nigel Farage may have let exceed his grasp. It was a story by GB News, digging up the concern about grooming gangs, that the Conservatives have seized upon shamelessly in the last couple of weeks, despite the fact that Kemi—[Interruption.]—no, let me finish—that Kemi Badenoch—[Interruption.]—no, I won't—that Kemi Badenoch, when she was children's Minister, did not once mention the issue of grooming gangs, did not once mention what the Government was going to do about the Professor Alexis Jay inquiry, took no action to implement any of those recommendations, unlike the Welsh Government. The Welsh Government, when we had the recommendations of the inquiry—we had six recommendations—we immediately set out what we were going to do. That's the difference in the approach of this Government and their Government. And instead, what are they doing? They're trying to divide; they're trying to look for issues where they can generate some heat, and, with GB News, get a whole lot of misinformation, which is dragging the whole tenor of public debates down.

On the weekend, we had Elon Musk retweeting a post that said that the Welsh Refugee Council was seeking to entice—this is the language, 'entice'—migrant men to come to Wales by showing a video of 12-year-old girls, repeated by Andrew R.T. Davies, even though he'd already been shown to be telling lies when he said that the Welsh Government was giving £1,600 to anyone who wants to rock up—illegal immigrants, as he said. No such thing is true. Asylum seekers are part of a legal process, and we as a Welsh Government—

David Rees (Labour, Aberavon)

Lee, you need to conclude now, please.

Lee Waters (Labour, Llanelli)

I will.

—extended a hand to children who turned up with no-one, who turned up with nothing, and didn't have the privilege of inherited wealth and the private education that Andrew R.T. Davies had. But he doesn't care about the people; all he cares about is inflaming debate with shameless, scurrilous, disgusting claims, using schoolchildren, and his party stands behind him—[Interruption.] For shame on them all.

David Rees (Labour, Aberavon)

I—[Interruption.] To Members on the opposition benches, I cannot hear the contributions from the Member, because you are making so much noise. If you let me listen, I can make some comments, but you don't let me listen, okay. Llyr Gruffydd.

Llyr Gruffydd (Plaid Cymru, North Wales)

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. And for the record, I would like to align myself with the comments of the Member from Llanelli. But I will address elements in the motion particularly, and I want to speak about, obviously, the inheritance tax issue that has been raised in the motion, which is impacting Welsh farms. It's something we've raised previously, as many of us have here in the Chamber.

Now, I'll say it again: I don’t believe that the Welsh Government or the UK Government appreciate how far-reaching the consequences will be in relation to this policy. Inheritance tax reliefs, like agricultural property relief and business property relief, actually provide vital certainty that farms can remain within families across the generations, and if you disrupt that fragile financial ecosystem, then you do so at your own risk. Because we hear regularly the Welsh Government telling us how important farmers will be in the fight against climate change and reversing biodiversity loss. The whole thrust of the sustainable farming scheme is about keeping farmers on the land but doing it in a way that mitigates many of the challenges that we all need to meet. We know about the cultural and linguistic contribution; the fourth pillar of sustainable development in Wales, a key, key component of that, as far as Welsh farming is concerned. And economically, of course, we know about the £9 return on investment for every £1 that goes into agriculture, creating employment and economic activity in some of our most marginal communities. So, we really need to tread carefully if we're going to mess about with succession and farming and allowing further and future generations to continue with food production and all of the other advantages that they bring. The unique nature of farming businesses means that the loss of relief will severely threaten the viability, and even, potentially, the survival, of many businesses. It's not like forcing somebody just to sell off some assets; you're forcing people, potentially, to sell off their livelihoods and the livelihoods of their future generations. So, I don't want to see an undermining of Wales's family farm structure.

Now, yes, speculative investors who buy land to avoid tax, that is an issue that needs to be addressed—of course it is—but genuine working family farms shouldn't be caught up in that. Now, the Treasury claims, and we've heard it before, haven't we, that only one in four farms will be affected, but, of course, we know as well that smallholdings and households with limited grazing inflated the numbers of farms falling below that threshold, masking the real impact or distorting the figures. The Central Association of Agricultural Valuers has estimated that 20 per cent more farmers will be affected by inheritance tax due to inflation. When APR and BPR were introduced, the nil-rate band covered about 56 acres of farmland. Today, it covers barely half that—29 acres—due to inflation. So, the Welsh Government really does need to work with the UK Government, either to reverse the policy or to amend it or, at the very least, to mitigate the impact of some of these changes to family farms, particularly.

Now, Labour promised, in opposition, that they wouldn't change inheritance tax rules on agriculture, but they broke that promise in their very first budget. So, as I say, at the very least, let’s have a proper transition, if it has to happen at all—not 18 months, but enough time for older farmers to transfer or gift their assets, or grant exemptions to those of a certain age. This is a generational change, and it’s wrong to introduce it in just 18 months.