Senedd Cymru (Welsh Parliament), 31 January 2023

317 contributions from 45 members. The official report.

Statement by the Llywydd

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

Good afternoon and welcome to this afternoon's Plenary meeting. As we begin this afternoon, we are all painfully aware of the sudden loss suffered by the First Minister over the weekend, and, on behalf of us all, I wish to extend our condolences to him and his family.

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

It’s little understood by people outside this Chamber, but often what pains one of us can pain all of us. In this case, what pains the First Minister has touched many people throughout Wales. When the news broke on Saturday, the first asking for her condolences to be passed on to the First Minister, messaging me, was a nurse in Bronglais.

Mark and his family are in our hearts and prayers this afternoon. Many will have known Clare well. We will rise now to remember Clare, and in love and support for our First Minister and his family.

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

Diolch. The Trefnydd will be answering questions on behalf of the First Minister this afternoon, and I ask the Trefnydd to say a few words.

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Diolch, Llywydd. Thank you all for that moment of reflection in memory of Clare Drakeford and in recognition of her life. I know the thoughts of everyone in the Senedd, and across Wales, are with our First Minister and his family at this very sad time, which I know he will greatly appreciate.

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

I thank the Trenydd for that.

1. Questions to the First Minister

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

The first question this afternoon is from Buffy Williams.

Buffy Williams (Labour, Rhondda)

1. What discussions has the First Minister had with the Minister for Social Justice regarding the violence against women, domestic abuse and sexual violence strategy since it was announced last year? OQ59068

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Only united action from all sections of society can end abuse and ensure that everyone in Wales can truly live fear free. Our national VAWDASV strategy sets out our aims, and the Minister for Social Justice will continue to work closely with all Cabinet colleagues to ensure it is delivered.

Buffy Williams (Labour, Rhondda)

Diolch, Trefnydd. The violence against women, domestic abuse and sexual violence strategy is, to me, one of the most important pieces of work the Welsh Government has announced this term, especially for my communities in Rhondda. Shockingly, the number of incidents of domestic violence and abuse reported to South Wales Police in Rhondda is, more often than not, double that of Cynon, Taf and Merthyr combined. We also know that these figures increase on the days of rugby internationals. With the start of the six nations, I'm campaigning, in February, with partners, to raise awareness of what local and national support is available to victims and perpetrators. I know that the support is available thanks to the strategy, but we need people to be accessing it. Trefnydd, since the strategy's announcement, what work has been done to ensure people know where and how they can access support? And are we still able to fund services fully during the current financial climate?

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Well, as Buffy Williams has outlined, in Wales, we know that too many people still experience domestic abuse and sexual violence, and our strategy absolutely puts prevention at its core, shifting the focus from symptom to cause through a public health approach. Buffy Williams referred to our groundbreaking Act back in 2015, and that created duties on local authorities and health boards in Wales to publish and implement strategies for addressing these issues in our local communities, and that really ensures that tackling violence against women and girls is prioritised right across Wales.

You mentioned the upcoming six nations campaign, and, through our Live Fear Free campaigns, that is a time that we do publicise those more. And we will continue to raise awareness of stalking, of harassment, of abuse and violence against women in all aspects of life, and that includes the street and other public places. And what these campaigns really do is provide practical advice for those who may be suffering abuse, but, as well as highlighting the support that's available to enable friends and family, and the wider community, to recognise abuse and take safe action, and signposting for people who perpetrate, who are themselves concerned about their behaviour. The Welsh Government does continue to fund regional advisers and specialist services, including the 24/7 Live Fear Free helpline. That supports victims of domestic abuse and sexual violence, and works tirelessly to ensure that no victim falls through the gaps of service provision, and especially those at higher risk. And we welcome long-term collaboration and partnership working between the services, and also the criminal justice services, really working together to deal with the complexities of the trauma that can be experienced.

Natasha Asghar (Conservative, South Wales East)

Minister, in a written statement dated 19 January on women's safety in public places in Wales, the Minister for Social Justice referred to the Welsh Government's violence against women, domestic abuse and sexual violence national strategy. The Minister said that the strategy will be delivered through a collaborative

'"blueprint approach" alongside a group of key partner organisations including the police and specialist sector.'

One of these blueprint work streams is street harassment and safety in public places, providing a focus and expertise for an innovative approach to these issues. Currently in Newport—an area that I represent in South Wales East—every other LED light in the city gets turned off from midnight until 6 a.m. in the morning. However, Newport's Labour council is considering switching off all 19,000 lights, except at 'safety-critical sites', overnight, in a bid to cut costs. Furthermore, since late 2019, street lights across Caerphilly county borough have been switched off each night between midnight and 5.30 a.m. So, do you agree with me, Minister, that turning off street lights at night is in direct conflict with the aims of your Government's strategy to help women and girls feel safe on our streets? And will you take up this matter with the local authorities concerned, going forward? Thank you.

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Thank you. Well, I think we have to recognise the very difficult position that our local authorities are in, in trying to save money, even with the budgets that we've been able to give them from Welsh Government. But, as you say, the Minister for Social Justice did make a statement, following a request—I think it was from Delyth Jewell—in the business statement, because the Minister for Social Justice absolutely recognises that it's really important how women and children—well, everybody—feel safe, particularly on our streets. You mentioned the blueprint, and that works very closely not just with our partners here in Wales, but also non-devolved organisations. As part of that structure, the Minister for Social Justice chairs the national partnership board, with Dafydd Llywelyn, who's the lead police and crime commissioner here in Wales. It's something that I'm sure the board will look at, to see what support they can give local authorities, but, as I say, we do have to recognise the position of our local authorities from a financial position.

Joyce Watson (Labour, Mid and West Wales)

The scope of the strategy was extended to include workplace harassment, because, as it says, women's safety can only come from change in a culture that fails to tackle toxic masculinity. Unfortunately, we've seen numerous examples of that culture in various organisations in recent weeks. So, do you agree with me, Minister, that trade unions are key to holding workplaces to account, and making sure that bosses are doing everything they can to prevent sexual harassment? We need good men in the room and employers to look at systems and procedures that enable and facilitate safe challenges. And would you join with me in welcoming the work that Wales TUC has done with Welsh Women's Aid to develop a toolkit, which I'll be launching here in March, that will help union reps to carry out that work?

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Thank you. And thank you to Joyce Watson for bringing the workplace sexual harassment toolkit to our attention today. I think it will be an extremely useful tool, once it has been launched, and it has been developed jointly with Welsh Women's Aid and Wales TUC. And it's very much in alignment with our aim to, obviously, ensure that workplaces are safe for employees, but also to ensure that employers have the tools that they need to deal with any breaches when they do happen. The Welsh Government has a long history of working with Welsh Women's Aid, and I think that this toolkit is another example of their passion and devotion to make sure that we do eradicate violence against women and girls. And I know that the Minister for Social Justice is very welcoming of the toolkit also.

Rhianon Passmore (Labour, Islwyn)

2. What is the Welsh Government doing to aid post-pandemic economic renewal in Islwyn? OQ59069

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Our economic mission sets out Welsh Government's economic priorities. We are strengthening the sectors across the Welsh economy by focusing on support for firms to innovate and diversify, speeding up business decarbonisation, and investing in climate-resilient infrastructure.

Rhianon Passmore (Labour, Islwyn)

Diolch, Trefnydd. Thank you. A popular independent cafe, called Marmajo's, had premises on Pen-y-fan industrial estate in Crumlin until it very recently closed, and the owner, Charlie Allcock, reluctantly made a really hard decision, after watching her energy bills triple, to almost £1,800 a month. Also, in Pontllanfraith, the Islwyn bowls club reopened following the pandemic restrictions, but the bar and function room have also remained closed as the local authority seeks someone to take it over, and the commercial side of the club needs to be secured in the future. And in Blackwood, HSBC have announced their intention to close their branch in July this year. So, in communities throughout Islwyn, the consequences of 13 long, cold years of Tory austerity and the pandemic, and now the Tory cost-of-living crisis, are removing or endangering the important fabric of community life. Trefnydd, the people of Islwyn are grateful for their Welsh Labour Government that seeks, within its devolved functions and within its strict financial envelope, to encourage economic activity. One such area of Welsh Government activity has been in the creative arts. Executives of Netflix last week told the Welsh Affairs Select Committee that their shows, such as Sex Education, which saw filming in Newbridge town centre and across Gwent, contributed £200 million to the Welsh economy over the last five years. What other imaginative avenues, Trefnydd, are open to the Welsh Government to seek to bring life and energy into Islwyn's economic life?

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Thank you, and I'm very sorry to hear about the businesses and organisations in your constituency that have had to unfortunately close. As you know, here in Wales, we have Business Wales, and that's just about to celebrate its tenth anniversary, and they've provided a single integrated service to support businesses through these very difficult and uncertain economic times. That includes during the pandemic, as we left the European Union, and obviously the current cost-of-business crisis. Nearly 32,000 businesses were supported through the economic resilience fund during the pandemic, and direct support is available for businesses who continue to face uncertainties due to the cost-of-living crisis, the business crisis and, of course, the recession. There are many businesses in your constituency that have received support and, as you know, we've recently rolled out the business productivity enhancement programme. That's aimed at supporting SME manufacturing businesses also.

Laura Anne Jones (Conservative, South Wales East)

Business Minister, for people in Islwyn, since 2019, they have experienced a real-terms increase of just £2.59 in their weekly earnings. Clearly, this isn't enough to keep pace with inflation, and the only way to combat this in Wales is by truly supporting our private sector and making Wales a more attractive place to invest in so they can employ more people on better wages. Clearly, this isn't happening at the moment, with Wales having seen the biggest fall in employment in the UK over the last years. Business Minister, how do you intent to curb this worrying trend?

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

I disagree with the Member profoundly that Wales isn't an attractive place to do business and to bring new businesses. I think you just need to look at our track record and also the work the Development Bank of Wales has done. I mentioned the business productivity enhancement programme that's recently been rolled out that's attracting new businesses. Again, the number of jobs that have been created just in the last two years in Rhianon Passmore's constituency totalled 621 jobs, with 220 new-start businesses, and has provided dedicated support to 1,102 businesses in Caerphilly.

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

Questions now from the party leaders. The leader of the Conservatives, Andrew R.T. Davies.

Andrew RT Davies (Conservative, South Wales Central)

Thank you, Presiding Officer. Before I start, with your permission, Presiding Officer, I'd like to identify with the comments you and the Trefnydd put on the record in relation to the shattering news of the First Minister's loss of his wife over the weekend. Having met Clare on several occasions in my role as leader here and as an MS as well, I realise what a kind and compassionate individual she was and how dedicated they both were to each other. I hope very much that the sentiments that everyone is expressing is a form of comfort, and I use the word 'form' of comfort because nothing will ever make up for the loss of your partner in life. I extend the Welsh Conservatives' sympathies, prayers and best wishes to the family of the First Minister and to the First Minister himself.

Trefnydd, in your previous role as building Minister and planning Minister, you'll be well aware of the issues around building safety here in Wales. There was much speculation and talk in the press on the weekend in relation to the remedial measures that have been put in place across the United Kingdom, but in particular here in Wales. Through the Building Safety Act 2022 that has passed in Westminster, there are measures to make sure that people who live in what are known as 'orphan buildings', which are buildings that have been built by companies that have been collapsed once the project has been finished, can be restored and the liabilities picked up by the companies. Will you, as a Government, pick up those measures and incorporate them into Welsh law here, so that residents who find themselves in similar buildings can have those protections? I notice that Mike Hedges was raising this very issue with you in business questions only two weeks ago.

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Thank you. Well, as is the case in England, the Minister works very closely with developers, for instance, and I know, around the developers' pact, the Minister's been doing that. She's also kept Members updated, so I appreciate that you will already have that information as well. The Minister is obviously working closely with the UK Government to see what aspects of the legislation we can look at, and I'm sure that she will keep us updated.

Andrew RT Davies (Conservative, South Wales Central)

Leader of the house, it has been some years now, obviously, since the Grenfell tragedy. The inquiry into the Grenfell tragedy has concluded its work, and we await its report. As I said, in the UK Parliament, the legislation has been passed to give comfort to residents who live in these orphan buildings—there is one literally just up the road from here—who find themselves in the horrendous situation of not knowing whether they will get the remediation works undertaken, and they are living in properties that are unsaleable now and in fear of their lives basically, because of the fire activities that could potentially go on in those buildings. I would hope that I could have achieved a more substantial answer from you, given the time lapse since the tragedy of the Grenfell fire, but I implore you and the Government to take those measures on board to give confidence to those residents that they will get restitution in place to fix the damages.

But another thing that was spoken about by the UK Minister, Michael Gove, was that, where companies refuse to honour their commitments to remedy these buildings, they would put into law the ability to stop those companies being able to work, build future buildings, in those localities. Will the Welsh Government give urgent consideration to adopting such measures here, to strengthen your arm when you are negotiating with these companies, so that—if they couldn't build in the past to a good standard, what confidence can we have that they will build in the future to a good standard? And we need that legislative change here to give the Minister the ability to go into those negotiations and stop these companies doing what they did previously.

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

So, in relation to the first part of your question around remediation, I know the Minister has been working very hard to make sure that there is a programme of work that can be outlined, so that people do get that confidence, because I can imagine nothing worse than owning a home and knowing of the potential disaster that could befall it. And I know the Minister also is working very closely, as I say, with the UK Government, and has been having discussions with Michael Gove around that protection, as you referred to it, with developers who do not consider the requirements that will be needed from them, when they build in the future. So, yes, the short answer to your question is 'yes'.

Andrew RT Davies (Conservative, South Wales Central)

Thank you for that. I'm pleased to hear that, and I'm sure residents and action groups across Wales, who are affected by this will be pleased as well to hear that response. A word that hasn't been used by the Welsh Government, but, on Sunday, was used by the UK Government, was to apologise for the shortcomings in the building regulation environments that allowed these buildings to be put up in the first place, and, ultimately, end up in the situation we are in at the moment. Given the position that you occupy within the Government, will you apologise today, similar to how the UK Government apologised on the weekend, via Michael Gove? Because, whilst it won't put the buildings right, it will give a huge amount of comfort to those individuals and residents who find themselves on the wrong end of this situation through no fault of their own.

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Well, of course, we are very sorry that anybody finds themselves living with those concerns. But, as I say, it was really important that we took a step back and looked at what work could be done, and, as I say, the Minister does have a programme of work to assist with these people.

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

The leader of Plaid Cymru—Adam Price.

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Carmarthen East and Dinefwr)

Thank you very much, Llywydd. May I, on behalf of the Plaid Cymry group in the Senedd, but also on behalf of the party more broadly, extend our sincerest condolences to the First Minister on his bereavement? It is a blow that's difficult to comprehend, if truth be told, and we want to ensure that he is aware how much support we wish to give him during this most difficult period, and that, as has been said already, is broadly shared. I was in the Melin Drafod conference over the weekend, and people there had felt the blow of this loss and the anguish that the First Minister faces.

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Carmarthen East and Dinefwr)

The Welsh Government has formally commenced the NHS pay-round process for 2023-24 by sending a remit letter to the NHS pay review body. The Welsh Government's evidence to the pay review body, along with the letter, was sent on the same day, 11 January, that the health unions said that they were no longer prepared to engage with a review body process that they no longer trusted, calling instead for direct negotiations with the Government for next year. Why, effectively, begin a new dispute with the unions over next year's pay even before this year's pay dispute is resolved? How is that going to rebuild the trust of the workforce?

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Thank you. As you know, the Minister for Health and Social Services continues to engage with trade unions. I know that her officials have met with the trade unions today and I think they're planning to meet again next week. We want to keep our door open; we want to continue to have discussions to, obviously, support our NHS staff. As you said, the Minister now is looking to the next year, because in the process, you have to do that. But, I think what is really important is that, unlike England, we have kept that engagement with our trade unions to ensure that they do feel listened to.

Also, I should just say that across the Welsh Government, every Minister is looking at what more funding we can bring forward—we're looking at our underspends and we're looking at our reserves—to try to put more money into that pot of money that we want to give not just to our NHS staff, but to our teachers and public service workers. If that happens, we won't be able to do other things. So, I don't want to underestimate the work that we are doing, as a Welsh Government, to try to bring a resolution to this.

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Carmarthen East and Dinefwr)

You say that you've taken a different approach to the UK Government, but the remit letter that you've sent mirrors that of the UK Government exactly in emphasising affordability. You also define what affordability means—the amount that you, as a Government, can afford to pay—because you say in the letter:

'In the absence of increased UK Government funding, any changes to NHS staff’s terms and conditions will need to come from existing budgets.'

The problem is that that isn't true, as you could increase income taxes, which would mean that you could afford a fairer pay offer. Why didn't you include that option for the pay review body to consider, if this is a genuinely independent process?

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Well, unfortunately, even just a 1 per cent increase would only bring forward—I think it was about £55 million, which, clearly, is nowhere near enough money for what we need. What we need is an increase in our budget. You will know all of the difficulties—from being in the co-operation agreement, you will know all of the facts and figures around our budget. We know that we need further funding from the UK Government to enable us to meet not just our NHS workforce pay demands but others.

We understand why people who've probably never, ever gone on strike before feel the need to do so, because after a decade of austerity, and we've now got the cost-of-living crisis, we've got predictions of further inflation and predictions of a recession, we absolutely understand the concerns of our workforce about their standards of living—they believe they might be eroded or are being eroded. So, we made it clear that, without additional funding from the UK Government, there are limits to how far we can go. But, the suggestion you have would not bring forward the amount of funding we need.

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Carmarthen East and Dinefwr)

I think the Trefnydd may have misspoken here, because a 1 per cent increase, according to your own figures, in the income tax level at each band would raise £273 million. What you're referring to—the £55 million—is a 1 per cent increase in the NHS pay bill. So, actually, using your income tax powers, you could achieve a significantly higher pay offer than the one you're currently offering.

Now, in your evidence to the pay review body, you report NHS staff vacancies up from 1,925 in the summer of 2020 to 3,305 two years later—an increase of over 70 per cent. And even that, you admit, is an underestimate of the true figure. Agency spending, you confirm, has more than trebled over the last seven years to an all-time high of £271 million, equivalent to more than 5 per cent of the total NHS pay bill. From June 2021 to June 2022, sickness rates in the NHS, according to your own evidence, have risen from 5.7 per cent of all staff to 7.1 per cent. Meanwhile the proportion of nurses and midwives leaving the NHS has risen from 6.5 per cent to 7.6 per cent. Vacancies up, sickness rates up, agency spending up, leaving rates up. The only thing going down, Trefnydd, is the morale of the staff and their trust in this Labour Government. What is your plan to turn this situation around?

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Well, the figures I have in front of me around NHS workforce statistics—and this is directly employed staff—is that the workforce is now at record levels. We've got over 105,000 people, 90,943 full-time equivalents, being directly employed by our NHS Wales organisations. All the staff—you go through nurses, you go through medical and dental staff, consultants, registered nurses, registered midwives, scientific, therapeutic, technical staff—I could go on—all the therapists, they're all up over the last three years. I have all the figures in front of me.

We're working very hard to recruit. With my MS hat on, I met the acting chief executive of Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board last Friday and listened to what they're doing as a health board to try and attract more staff. A lot of nursing staff in particular put their retirement plans on hold, for instance, when the pandemic struck us, and now, we are seeing more people wanting to take those retirement plans forward. So, it was good to hear from that particular health board of the plans they are taking. You'll be aware of the medical school that we are having in north Wales—so, up in north Wales, there's a great deal of work being done to attract new staff. But it is important that we look internationally as well, as long as it's ethically correct to recruit staff there, and again, I know that health boards are doing that, also.

Altaf Hussain (Conservative, South Wales West)

3. What action is the Welsh Government taking to tackle extremist views amongst young people? OQ59064

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Working in partnership with counter-terrorism policing, we have produced videos and resources on preventing radicalisation and extremism, delivered in schools by our SchoolBeat officers. Our Prevent board brings partners together to oversee activities in Wales designed to protect those who are most vulnerable to radicalisation.

Altaf Hussain (Conservative, South Wales West)

Thank you, Minister. I was really disturbed to read the comments of Detective Superintendent Gareth Rees, the right-wing terrorism lead at counter-terrorism policing, who said that there has been an incredibly alarming rise in teenagers involved with neo-Nazi groups and far-right extremism. His comments came following the conviction of a Cardiff man for belonging to a banned far-right group and recruiting others to the cause. Another British teenager was also convicted in the past few days for recruiting and inciting US teenagers to commit terrorist attacks in the USA. Minister, I am sure that you will agree that this rise in far-right hatred among our young people is extremely concerning. How are the Welsh Government working with partner agencies to prevent the radicalisation of young teenage boys?

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Thank you, and I certainly would agree with the Member that it is very concerning, and the sentencing of the young person from Cardiff that you referred to—it was a range of offences, including offences under terror legislation. What that does is really serve us all as a reminder that extremism is a very, very real issue right across the UK.

Obviously, our education sector plays a hugely important role in safeguarding our young people through providing counter-narratives, support and engaging with counter-terrorism policing in the relevant authorities when necessary. We have our Wales police schools programme—that's been supported by Welsh Government, I think, now for nearly 20 years, and we invest just under £2 million each year, and match funding's also provided by police forces right across Wales. Counter-terrorism policing provide routine briefings to all our school liaison officers to enable them to provide inputs across Wales.

I mentioned the important role of education, but also, I think our best chance of protecting those who are most vulnerable to radicalisation is to adopt a whole-system approach, and that does include front-line staff in our health services and also in our local government services.

Jenny Rathbone (Labour, Cardiff Central)

4. What is the Welsh Government doing to strengthen food security in Wales? OQ59061

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

The food system operates on a UK-wide basis. The Welsh Government therefore works with the UK Government and devolved administrations to identify risks and engages with stakeholders to manage them. In Wales, we promote food security through investment in the food manufacturing industry, supporting agriculture, and providing significant support to a wide variety of community projects.

Jenny Rathbone (Labour, Cardiff Central)

Thank you, Trefnydd. You won't be surprised to know that I am focusing on our food and vegetable supplies. I'm acutely aware that only twice in the last three months have I been able to obtain the boxes of fruit and vegetables that I want to give to our local food bank. That reflects the lack of affordable food that is reaching the wholesale market, on which all the independent retailers, corner shops, convenience stores and a lot of the hospitality sector rely on. I appreciate that the supermarkets have their own networks. Next to none of the food coming into the wholesale market is grown in Wales. Now, I fully appreciate the work that you, Minister, have done as the Minister for rural affairs to try and expand the horticulture sector in Wales, but it really isn't enough. And given the significant loss of public money to the foundational economy, and the major implications it has for our ambitious universal free school meals programme, with a third of a child's meal needing to be vegetables and fruit to enable them to grow and learn, in light of these budgetary and policy implications for all your Ministers on the front benches, with the exception of the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution, how does the Government plan to address this strategically significant issue?

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Thank you. As I said, food supply is really wholly integrated across the UK. We've got very diverse international supply chains as well for both imports and exports. I don't think there is a general shortage of fruit and vegetables. They're widely available. So, I don't think there is a risk to either the free school meals policy or public health. We are trying to tackle this issue. You mentioned the work I've been doing in relation to horticulture. I'm told that horticulture is an area where we want to really see an expansion of the agricultural sector, and I'm using rural development programme funding, for instance, to have new windows for people to apply for funding in relation to doing more around horticulture and growing fruit and vegetables.

We do need to continue to engage in discussions with UK Government and other devolved Governments, as I say, around the agri-food supply chain. And I do it as a Minister—officials certainly do it, but I do it as a Minister. I meet with a range of partners—farmers, processors, manufacturers, retailers—to get the information that we need. We keep that under constant review to make sure there is no shortage of fruit and veg.

Samuel Kurtz (Conservative, Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire)

The Minister has previously touched upon her community food strategy, a matter that we've discussed in committee. Now, we're still waiting for the strategy's development, and, as it stands, it has no real depth or foundation. I note that Jenny Rathbone's commendable desires align perfectly with Peter Fox's Food (Wales) Bill, which is currently making its way through the legislative process. As Peter has previously highlighted in the Chamber and at committee, it creates the perfect environment for which Jenny Rathbone's vision for food security can become reality. Minister, you've stated that the funding for your community food strategy has been ring-fenced, yet its implementation is delayed. So, given this, when can we expect this strategy to be presented? Diolch.

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Well, the community food strategy is a manifesto commitment on which I stood. We're bringing forward the community food strategy as part of the co-operation agreement with Plaid Cymru, and, obviously, we have five years to bring that strategy forward and it will be brought forward in this term of the Senedd. You mentioned Peter Fox's food Bill. I have to say that food Bill is taking up probably all of my resources at an official level that could be working on the community food strategy. I disagree with you about Peter Fox's Bill being the perfect environment, and Peter and I have had discussions. I gave evidence to committee last week on it, and I know we've both got some more scrutiny sessions coming up. I think a lot of what Peter Fox is bringing forward in his food Bill can already be delivered with current policies and legislation that we have at the current time. I'm very worried, for instance, about the commission that Peter Fox is proposing in his Bill. I think it will cost a significant amount of money and will also go across the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015. I think what Peter has done is try to put the Scottish model, if you like, and their food Bill into—which, if you say it's round, here in Wales our framework is square and it's very difficult not to cut across the well-being of future generations Act.

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Ynys Môn)

It's crucial for food security that we promote and protect production of food, but also the processing of food. And I'm very grateful to the Minister, in her role as Minister for rural affairs and food, along with the Minister for Economy, for agreeing to meet with me later today to discuss the urgent actions required in light of the announcement of the consultation on the closure of the 2 Sisters Food Group plant in Llangefni. We need urgent steps. I am clear that steps need to be taken by the UK Government too, and it's frightening to see, from Westminster today, that the Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury didn't even know that there were 700 jobs under threat in Llangefni, which shows that Anglesey has been ignored there over the last week. But does the Minister agree with me that we need to ensure all means possible of bringing investment now into food production in Anglesey, to help existing businesses to grow, and also the kind of investment that I've been pushing for, for a food production park, in order to ensure that this sector gets the boost that it needs? This is a strength of ours that we can build on in Anglesey.

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Yes, in relation to the last part of your question, I absolutely agree, and I think we've had some very productive discussions around that to see what we can do. Certainly, the announcement on the closure—or the proposed closure—of the 2 Sisters poultry plant in Llangefni was devastating, and is devastating for your constituency. It was completely unexpected. We had no prior knowledge of it. I don't think there had been any attempt to contact Welsh Government at all before the announcement was made, which I think was very disappointing, particularly following the support we'd given them and the work we'd done with them, particularly during the COVID pandemic. So, it did catch us completely unawares; we had absolutely no idea. I know the Minister for Economy and I, we met, and then we had a meeting with the leader of Ynys Môn council; I think there's another one planned. Because I think it is right that we all need to work together, and we certainly need the UK Government to sit up and take notice of this. But we'll be very happy, obviously, to follow up further discussions with you later this afternoon.

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

Jane Dodds.

Jane Dodds (Liberal Democrat, Mid and West Wales)

Diolch, Llywydd. And I understand that, with your permission, as leader of the Welsh Liberal Democrats, and joining with the two other leaders, of Plaid Cymru and of the Conservatives, we would like to extend our deepest sympathies to the First Minister and his family. Losing someone so close is so hard, and our love and prayers are with him. Thank you. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Turning to the issue of food security, another aspect is around supporting our farmers to produce food. Some of us were lucky enough to be, last night, with National Farmers Union Cymru, and I know many of us have enjoyed and endured the wonderful Farmers Union of Wales breakfasts that were last week as well. Some of those maybe more than once, and perhaps more than was good for us, shall we say, but, nevertheless, it was focusing on Welsh food. And I know, with the agriculture Bill coming up, I would just like to ask you, if I may, in your role as well: what measures are you taking to look at domestic food production in terms of securing that and enhancing that? Because farmers are producers of food first and foremost. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Yes, absolutely. If you ask anybody, 'What do farmers do?', that's the first thing they will say, 'They produce our food.' And Jane Dodds will know at the heart of the Bill lies the objective to ensure the sustainability of our farms and recognises the complementary objectives of supporting farmers in the sustainable production of food, and that's alongside the response to the climate and nature emergencies. The sole purpose of the agriculture Bill and, obviously, the sustainable farming scheme, which are being produced side by side, is to ensure that our farmers remain on the land and that that land is there for future generations.

John Griffiths (Labour, Newport East)

5. What is the Welsh Government's strategy to further develop medical specialist services across Wales? OQ59055

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Welsh Government has set out its expectations in a series of quality statements that describe what good clinical services look like. We're also investing in the NHS workforce in Wales by increasing training places for many healthcare professionals.

John Griffiths (Labour, Newport East)

Thank you for that answer, Minister. Two weeks ago, I met with one of my younger constituents, Elliot, and his mum, Lucy. They are both here in the Senedd today in the public gallery watching proceedings. Elliot is five years old and suffers from a rare condition called Duchenne muscular dystrophy, a genetic disorder characterised by the progressive loss of muscle. As part of his treatment, Minister, Lucy is very keen that Elliot has the opportunity to access clinical trials. At present, there is no capacity in Wales to run such clinical trials. There is no neuromuscular specialist in south Wales. Trials are taking place in the north of England, but it is often children in that part of the country that benefit, due to the logistics of travel and treatment and other factors. Minister, Lucy is working hard to help raise awareness of this condition and the need for more research and better treatment. So, how might Welsh Government work with Lucy to help Elliot, and, indeed, to support other families and young people in Wales with this condition?

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Thank you. It's lovely to see Lucy and Elliot up in the public gallery. I do hope Elliot is getting the care he needs and that we do see progress of development of treatments in this area. Health and Care Research Wales have appointed a Health and Care Research Wales speciality lead for neurology and neurodegenerative diseases, and that's to enable studies to be opened across a range of neurological and neurodegenerative diseases. Participating in research trials can provide access to care and treatment that may not be available otherwise, so I can absolutely understand why Lucy wants Elliot to be able to contribute to and take part in clinical trials. If these research trials aren't available in Wales, Health and Care Research Wales can facilitate patient access to trials in other parts of the UK. What I think would be beneficial would be for Lucy to meet with Health and Care Research Wales to discuss those issues and her concerns.

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

Question 6 [OQ59058] is withdrawn. Question 7—Sarah Murphy.

Sarah Murphy (Labour, Bridgend)

7. How is the Welsh Government using digital technology to reduce NHS waiting times for patients across Bridgend? OQ59062

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Cwm Taf Morgannwg University Health Board, as with other health boards in Wales, is adopting and using modern technology across all its sites, including Bridgend, to see and support patients in the most appropriate way.

Sarah Murphy (Labour, Bridgend)

So, some good news: I'm very proud and pleased to say that the trauma and orthopaedic department at the Princess of Wales Hospital at Cwm Taf Morgannwg University Health Board won a MediWales innovation award at the end of 2022 in the NHS Wales 'working with industry' award category. The award was won by mymobility, which is a healthcare digital application that patients download to their smartphones, and then it sends them customisable prehabilitation and post-surgery rehabilitation videos and guides where people have hip and knee replacements.

Not only did our Bridgend Princess of Wales Hospital team win the award, but mymobility is part of a global medical tech leader, Zimmer Biomet, which has its medical supply factory also in Bridgend and provides skilled, fair work, unionised jobs for the constituents across my community, as well as Huw Irranca-Davies's Ogmore constituency. Also, I wanted to say 'thank' you to our health Minister, who visited them with us last year. Dr Kotwal, who is the consultant orthopaedic surgeon who led the project, said that patient feedback has been 'fantastic'.

'We have patients...some in their 80s, who are using the app and absolutely loving it.'

The app also reduces the footfall in the hospital and telephone calls, because they can just communicate using the app, and they want to expand it to shoulder surgeries. So, Minister, how is the Welsh Government evaluating good practice initiatives like mymobility, and expanding across Wales to reduce waiting lists and increase capacity? Diolch.

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Thank you. I'd like to congratulate Cwm Taf on the winning of their award. There are a number of similar digital services available in the marketplace, and I know that health boards are working with a number of providers to understand how they can affect service delivery, and that does include a tool that's been trialled under the small business research initiative, which is hosted by Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board and funded by Welsh Government across three health boards and across a number of clinical specialities. We absolutely recognise the value that these digital services can offer in transforming planned care for our patients, and that, obviously, also contributes to our goal of care closer to home.

I think what is really important is that the digital tools that we do adopt are leveraged on an all-Wales basis, so that they're able to securely exchange data. I think data sharing is so important across our health services here in Wales. We don't want data to be locked away and not shared, so I think it's really important that that data is accessible, going forward. We also need to ensure that patient-facing services are accessible via a single route, and that's the NHS Wales app, otherwise there is a risk—I didn't know there was such a thing—of app fog, when you have too many applications, each for a different purpose.

Delyth Jewell (Plaid Cymru, South Wales East)

8. What support is the Welsh Government providing to ambulance workers in South Wales East? OQ59065

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

We continue to invest in our NHS workforce to improve experience for patients and staff, including additional funding for extra training places for paramedics and a range of other health professions in 2023-24. This is the ninth consecutive year that health professional education and training budgets have increased in Wales.

Delyth Jewell (Plaid Cymru, South Wales East)

Diolch, Trefnydd. Last week, I was proud to stand on the picket line with ambulance workers in Merthyr Tydfil. None of those paramedics and ambulance workers wanted to be on strike—they wanted to be working, because their lives revolve around saving other people's lives. But they felt they had no choice because their pay is going down and the pressure is going up. But, away from pay and conditions, they talked to me about mental health strain, how trauma has become commonplace for them, seeing people dying, and witnessing other people's distress and pain and grief, day in and day out. I was really concerned to hear that the trauma risk management support isn't always enough. One of the paramedics described a truly awful thing that had happened to them on their shift, which involved someone dying, and they somehow didn't qualify for that trauma support. So, could the Welsh Government look urgently again at the support that's offered to the people whose job it is to support us in our most desperate hour of need? How can we make sure that we're giving enough help to the helpers?

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Thank you. You raise a very important point. If we think about it, paramedics are often, or usually, the first on the scene when that 999 call is made, and I absolutely understand the point you make. I'm sure the Minister for Health and Social Services will be very happy to look at what more we can do.

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

And finally, question 9, Rhys ab Owen.

Rhys ab Owen (Plaid Cymru, South Wales Central)

9. What discussions has the First Minister had with the UK Government following the announcement of levelling-up funds for railways in Cardiff? OQ59036

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

We support this development in Cardiff and are matching the UK Government's investment. However, Welsh Government was not involved in the development of the levelling-up fund and has had no role in its strategy or delivery.

Rhys ab Owen (Plaid Cymru, South Wales Central)

Diolch yn fawr, Trefnydd. The public transport expert, Mark Barry, said recently that the £50 million contribution towards the Cardiff cross-rail is only a drop in the water of the £500 million that is needed for the cross-rail to go from Cardiff Bay to Llantrisant. It also doesn't help with the inadequacy of the service—not having four trains per hour from half of the Cardiff stations because of the lack of infrastructure. As you know, Minister, Transport for Wales delivers those services, but of course they're constrained by the infrastructure, by Network Rail. It's clear, even with my friends, my colleagues from the Welsh Conservatives, that Wales is losing out when it comes to rail infrastructure. Can the Welsh Government, please, request from the UK Government the provision of adequate funds for the completion of the cross-rail from Cardiff Bay to Llantrisant and the funding needed to increase the level of services that is needed in all stations in Cardiff? Diolch yn fawr.

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

You're quite right, the funding is only the first phase, really, of Cardiff’s cross-rail ambition. So, as a Government, we will continue to work with Cardiff Council and Transport for Wales. You'll know that Welsh Government has repeatedly called on the UK Government to address the historic underinvestment in rail infrastructure in all parts of Wales. As a Government, we are very happy to be continuing to work with Transport for Wales. Just last Thursday, in my role as Minister for north Wales, I was very happy to launch the first of the new class 197 trains in Llandudno, again supported by £80 million of Welsh Government funding, and these trains will be rolled out right across Wales over the next 18 months.

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

Thank you, Trefnydd, on behalf of the First Minister.

2. Business Statement and Announcement

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

The next item will be the business statement, and the Trefnydd, once again, will be presenting this item. Lesley Griffiths.

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Diolch, Llywydd. There are no changes to this week's business. Draft business for the next three weeks is set out on the business statement and announcement, which can be found amongst the meeting papers available to Members electronically.

Darren Millar (Conservative, Clwyd West)

Trefnydd, last Friday was Holocaust Memorial Day, and it was my honour to be able to welcome to the Senedd last week, along with many other colleagues, Hedi Argent, who of course is a Holocaust survivor, to the Senedd, who shared her experiences with us. As you may well be aware, the Combat Antisemitism Movement's 2022 International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance working definition report has been published, and it looked at 1,116 entities, including 39 countries and 464 regional states and local government bodies. Here in the UK, it recorded that there were 150 reports of antisemitic incidents affecting Jewish students, academics, university staff and student bodies across the UK during 2021 and 2022. So, it's very alarming, Trefnydd, that there are universities here in Wales that are yet to adopt the IHRA working definition of antisemitism. Minister, I'd be very grateful for a statement from the Welsh Government Minister responsible for education, to make it absolutely and abundantly clear that no university or other place of education in Wales should receive any further Welsh Government funding, any taxpayer funding whatsoever, unless they adopt the IHRA working definition. Will you confirm that a statement will be forthcoming?

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Thank you. I'm sure many of us commemorated Holocaust Memorial Day. I was very fortunate to have the Minister for Social Justice in my constituency, and we attended an event together. On the point you raised, the Welsh Government has adopted the definition of IHRA as a working definition, as you're aware, and it is a matter for each university to then adopt it. I know that the Minister for Education and the Welsh Language has had those discussions with them.

Delyth Jewell (Plaid Cymru, South Wales East)

I'd like a statement, please, outlining what urgent conversations have been held between the Welsh and UK Governments about the support available to desperate people who are unable to afford their energy bills. We're living in a time of obscene extremes. Last week, it was reported that oil giants like BP and Shell are making profits of £5,000 a second, at a time when millions are in misery, already unable to heat their homes, because staying alive has become a crisis. The cost of living is almost unmanageable. Climate Cymru warn that 0.5 million Welsh adults spent Christmas in Dickensian conditions, in cold, damp homes, and UK Government support payments are due to end in two months' time. So, can a statement outline how the Welsh Government will put pressure on the Westminster Government to extend support for households, support for businesses, and to urge them to change this dreadful system that rewards rich companies and leaves the poorest people to freeze?

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Thank you. The Minister for Social Justice is already doing just that. I know she's written to the UK Government today, to Grant Shapps, making that point. The Minister will share that letter with us, and hopefully when she does get a response she will also share that letter with Members.

Mike Hedges (Labour, Swansea East)

Carrying on the energy theme, I'm requesting a Government statement on progress being made by the Welsh Government on ending standing charges on days when no energy is used. When people have their first hot meal for days, which is likely to be a tin of soup, and find they have used up to a quarter of their energy credit, to me this is fundamentally wrong. I would add the word 'cruel' as well. Whilst opposed in principle to standing charges, which hit the poorest hardest, as a first step it is imperative that standing charges are not made on days when no energy is used.

I would also like to ask for a Government statement on the future of papurau bro in Wales. These are Welsh language, local, community newspapers produced by volunteers and generally published monthly. In Swansea, we have Wilia, which is very good, and which has now gone online only. It provides a valuable opportunity to keep up with what is happening in Welsh-medium schools, the local Welsh societies, and Welsh-medium chapels. I'm asking for a Government plan for the continuation of these vital resources.

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Thank you. Well, I'm sure you won't be surprised to hear that the Minister for Social Justice absolutely agrees with you on the substantive issue you raise. I know she's had several meetings with energy companies and also with Ofgem. I think the last time we met Ofgem was yesterday, where she raised this issue with them. We believe there should be no standing charges for prepayment customers. They're a real injustice for prepayment customers.

With regard to your second question, papurau bro are absolutely unique sources here in Wales for our Welsh language community-based news. We're very grateful for the work of many volunteers who work very hard to ensure that they're published each month. I think it's fair to say that COVID-19 posed a real threat to them. Many did continue to be published and some adapted to being published online, as you referred to. I know the Minister for Education and Welsh Language last week announced a one-off inflationary support for Welsh language grant-funded organisations, and the network of papurau bro will receive an additional £6,000.

Natasha Asghar (Conservative, South Wales East)

Minister, today I'd like to ask for two statements, please. First, can I ask for a statement from the Minister for Health and Social Services about the frequency of inspection and maintenance of electrical equipment in hospitals across Wales? Last Wednesday, as I'm sure you're aware, a fire caused the Royal Gwent Hospital to be evacuated and a number of out-patient appointments to be cancelled, causing much disruption and inconvenience to patients and staff alike. So, can I please have a statement from the Minister about whether the current inspection regime and maintenance of electrical equipment in our hospitals are adequate to try to avoid such events happening in the future?

Secondly, can we have a statement from the Deputy Minister for Climate Change about the introduction of the much-heralded road tolling and congestion charges in Wales? Motorists in Wales were rightly furious when they discovered these plans were set out in the Welsh Government's transport delivery plan, and residents and commuters in Cardiff would have been further dismayed to hear a Labour Senedd Member saying in this Chamber two weeks ago that she was happy that it was increasingly difficult for people to bring their cars into the city centre and then call for a significant rise in the cost of city-centre parking. So, can we have a statement from the Deputy Minister outlining his plans to further punish motorists in an attempt to force them off the roads and to use inconvenient and unreliable public transport, where it exists? Thank you.

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Well, I think your second request is an absolute 'no.' Certainly, the Deputy Minister is not going to come and talk about how he punishes car drivers or owners. The most important thing—I'm sure we all recognise this—is that we face up to the climate emergency that's not coming down the track, but is absolutely here now.

In relation to your first request, all health boards report on estates and facilities management every year. The Minister has the performance data on an annual basis. And I know, for instance, that there has been a backlog, I appreciate that, but that has more or less been caught up now. I'm sure she is aware of the incident you referred to and will ask her officials to ensure that the correct inspection time was adhered to.

Jack Sargeant (Labour, Alyn and Deeside)

If I could continue on what is a national scandal and my campaign to end that national scandal of the forced installation of prepayment meters, Trefnydd, you'll be aware that, out of 500,000 warrants applied for through the courts, just 72 were refused. It seems to me that something is clearly wrong there and is unjust there. Over a week ago now, Grant Shapps recognised that this information was extremely concerning. He wrote to the energy suppliers, but he's yet to do anything meaningful. That's in stark contrast to the Minister for Social Justice, who has shown real leadership on this issue. Could I ask for some more investigative work from the Welsh Government and then a statement on the back of that, firstly on the worrying scale of warrants being issued, particularly in the Swansea courts, where tens of thousands of warrants are seemingly being linked to just one particular debt collection agent engaged by numerous energy suppliers, and then, secondly, on the level of debt that is triggering a warrant application and whether that's becoming lower? This is a real national scandal and we need to put an end to this now.

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Thank you, and I quite agree with you. This is a very important issue, and obviously the Minister for Social Justice, as you said, has shown real leadership in relation to this. I mentioned in an earlier answer that she met with Ofgem just yesterday—I think you've met them several times before—as well as with energy suppliers, to really express her grave concerns surrounding the large volume of court warrants that have been issued from magistrates' courts. The Minister also wrote to the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy expressing these concerns. There's a real safety and a social justice risk here to vulnerable households, including those with medical conditions. They're being forced onto prepayment meters against their will, or even their knowledge. The system is currently failing vulnerable people in our society, and I know the Minister has absolutely urged the UK Government to end the abhorrent practice of forced installation of prepayment meters, and strengthen the rules and obligations of suppliers to ensure they support rather than punish their customers. At the Ofgem meeting yesterday, the Minister really questioned whether they have the sufficient powers and interventions to safeguard our householders here in Wales and whether the regulations do go far enough to protect households. I understand Ofgem are proposing to formally review the policy around prepayment meters later this year and will have discussions with consumer groups and industry on proposed amendments. Obviously, the Minister and her officials will continue to engage with them.

Gareth Davies (Conservative, Vale of Clwyd)

Could I ask for a statement from the Minister for Finance and Local Government this afternoon on the condition of rural roads in Denbighshire? I've been contacted by local people in the county concerned by the increasing amount of potholes and deep crevices causing many headaches for road users and farm traffic, and some being described as being from the third world. In the previous cabinet, they put aside £4 million specifically for improving roads in Denbighshire, and now the current cabinet are saying it's not enough. So, how do we win here, Trefnydd? Can I, therefore, request a statement from the Welsh Government on the advice you can give to Denbighshire leaders on how to reprioritise their spending, or indeed provide additional funding so that my constituents can get around safely?

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Once again, the Member asks me for a statement on an area, really, that—. It's not our role to tell Denbighshire council how to repair their potholes or how to reprioritise their budget; that's for them. They answer to the local population, and it absolutely is a matter for them.

David Rees (Labour, Aberavon)

And finally, Jenny Rathbone.

Jenny Rathbone (Labour, Cardiff Central)

Thank you. Following the budget scrutiny that took place in the Equality and Social Justice Committee, I wrote to the Minister for Social Justice to ask how much of the capital allocation for the Gypsy and Traveller sites—£3.7 million in this current financial year—had been spent. Unfortunately, the Minister has responded that none of it has been spent, and none is forecast to be spent before 31 March. I wish to raise this because this means that no local authority has seen fit to invest in the much-needed Traveller sites this year, even though the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act 2022 now criminalises anyone who stops at an unregistered site. This is completely unacceptable for this vulnerable community, and I want to request a statement on what the Welsh Government plans to do about such a significant issue for a vulnerable and marginalised community.

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

I understand the Minister for Social Justice is aware of your concerns and shares the view that there is a real need to maximise investment in new sites and improvements to existing sites. I understand the Minister's officials met residents at sites in north Wales at the end of last year, and that engagement is going on right across Wales over the coming months. I think the Minister would be happy to make a written statement setting out the steps being taken to make progress on this issue. I understand it was also discussed with local authority cabinet leads for equality today.

David Rees (Labour, Aberavon)

Thank you, Trefnydd.

3. Questions to the Minister for Economy

David Rees (Labour, Aberavon)

Item 3 is questions to the Minister for Economy, and the first question is from Andrew R.T. Davies.

Andrew RT Davies (Conservative, South Wales Central)

1. What action is the Minister taking to improve economic resilience in South Wales Central? OQ59046

Vaughan Gething (Labour, Cardiff South and Penarth)

Our economic mission sets out our economic priorities and how we can help to make Wales a more resilient and prosperous nation. We are strengthening everyday sectors of the Welsh economy, together with a focus on supporting firms to innovate and diversify, speed up business decarbonisation, and invest in climate-resilient infrastructure.

Andrew RT Davies (Conservative, South Wales Central)

South Wales Central, Minister, obviously hosts two enterprise zones—the one in the Vale of Glamorgan and the financial enterprise zone in the centre of Cardiff. They were set up by a previous Minister and have been a central plank of successive Governments here in Cardiff Bay as to employment opportunities and investment opportunities. What role, going forward, do the enterprise zones have in improving economic resilience, going forward with the vision that you have as the Minister? Are you able to update us as to the outcomes from the two enterprise zones that are located in South Wales Central, as to employment opportunities—increases that we might have seen—and inward investment monies that might have come because of these areas being created?

Vaughan Gething (Labour, Cardiff South and Penarth)

I can't give you figures off the top of my head for the two zones, but I'll be more to happy to respond to Members on both those points. But more broadly, if you look at Cardiff as an area, if you look at professional services, you have seen real growth and continued investment. I recently met a number of professional services firms with a UK and international footprint who already have a base here in the capital region and are looking to invest further. What we actually have been doing is reviewing the future role of enterprise zones, the ones that we will continue with, and, actually, how we work alongside our economic regions. We're looking to have shared areas of working together with those regions. And actually, there's the growth deal money—the UK Government have also invested into a part of that—in helping to have a range of sectors, where each region can look at what they can do and have significant growth in, and how the Welsh Government can work in partnership with them. But I'll certainly happily come back to you about the two enterprise zones that have existed in the Vale and here in Cardiff as well.

Jenny Rathbone (Labour, Cardiff Central)

Given reports that UK Government Ministers may relax rules for foreign students, to allow them to work more hours, does the Minister have any plans to discuss this with the UK Government, so that foreign students who want to work can help fill the labour shortage experienced by Cardiff's hospitality industry?

Vaughan Gething (Labour, Cardiff South and Penarth)

We haven't been notified directly by the UK Government that they will proceed with what's been briefed about the potential to relax the rules for foreign students to work more hours. However, I'd say that the starting point is that we really do value international students who come to Wales—they enrich campuses, classrooms and the communities that they live in, both economically and culturally. One of the things that I most enjoyed about going to university was actually meeting people from different parts of the world—it was part of the broader enrichment. But whilst some of those people will work in hospitality, actually, their economic value is much, much more than that. We're very fortunate that we manage to not just attract students to come here to study, but a number of them stay, they have job opportunities, and they certainly enrich a whole range of our economic sectors as well. I'm very pleased that this Government continues to support the international mobility of students, in particular through our Taith programme, but also projects like Global Wales. Myself and the Minister for Social Justice continue to maintain dialogue with our immigration advisers, and I continue to make the case for a more sensible approach to immigration more generally, because of the economic benefits it provides. I hope it'll provide an attack of common sense when it comes to international students, as opposed to some of the alternative briefing you might hear from the current occupant of the Home Office.

Ken Skates (Labour, Clwyd South)

2. What assessment has the Minister made of the impact that the UK Government's decision not to support the Wrexham Gateway project will have on the Welsh economy? OQ59032

Vaughan Gething (Labour, Cardiff South and Penarth)

We remain fully committed to delivering the social, environmental and economic benefits of the Wrexham Gateway project. We are having urgent discussions with our partners to assess the impact of the UK Government’s decision not to support the Gateway in the latest levelling-up round of funding, and to identify alternative ways of delivering the benefits that the Gateway project could and should provide.

Ken Skates (Labour, Clwyd South)

Thank you very much for that positive message for the people of Wrexham and the region. Wrexham AFC, of course, have been talking recently about a plan B, and the Welsh Government has already earmarked, I believe, £25 million to this project. Will you reaffirm the Welsh Government's commitment to delivering the Wrexham Gateway project in full, and commit to engaging with the club and other project stakeholders to help develop plan B and ensure that this project comes to fruition for the people of Wrexham?

Vaughan Gething (Labour, Cardiff South and Penarth)

The allocation that we've already provided in 2021, the £25 million you mentioned, is still available. My officers met with the Wrexham Gateway partnership last week, following the announcement that the levelling-up funding bid had been rejected. Of course, it's disappointing that Wrexham and Flintshire didn't receive anything from the levelling-up bids. There are a range of projects that you couldn't say amount to levelling-up, like a £45 million road congestion scheme in Dover—that has nothing to do with levelling-up—or the £19 million that somehow found its way to the Prime Minister's very wealthy rural constituency. We will carry on working with the Wrexham Gateway project, with our partners, to look at alternative funding options—as you say, a plan B—and that will of course include discussions with the football club. I'll be happy to update the constituency Member on those discussions as they progress.

Sam Rowlands (Conservative, North Wales)

Thank you, Ken Skates, for submitting this important question here today. I certainly share some disappointment regarding decisions not to be able to support the bid for the levelling-up funding for the Wrexham Gateway project. But I'm pleased to hear the Minister's positive response in terms of the ongoing discussions with the Wrexham Gateway partnership, and that engagement with the football club in Wrexham, to see that important project become a success for the city of Wrexham. I'm also pleased to note that Wales received over £200 million worth of levelling-up funding, supporting projects up and down Wales, with nearly £50 million of that in my region of North Wales. I'm also pleased to see that Wales received the highest amount of money per capita, compared to the rest of Great Britain, through the levelling-up funding. I'm also pleased to see that Wrexham, through the shared prosperity fund, received £22.5 million, as well as being very much engaged with the growth deal in north Wales as well. In light of all that, Minister, and in light of all the positivity that we can see in Wrexham and the opportunities that are ahead for us in Wrexham, what specific plans do you have to ensure that Wrexham is able to grasp hold of those opportunities over the coming years, to make sure that Wrexham is able to be the economic powerhouse that it is?

Vaughan Gething (Labour, Cardiff South and Penarth)

We continue to work constructively with representatives for Wrexham. That's why we continue to engage in both the Wrexham Gateway project and indeed the shared discussions taking place on the broader Mersey Dee Alliance as well. I won't join the Member in celebrating the levelling-up fund round 2. There was an extraordinary delay in projects. The Member might want to consider whether celebrating and asking others to join in celebrating the levelling-up fund outcomes is really appropriate when you consider that Wales got 10 per cent of the last funding round. In contrast, we used to receive 22 per cent of the UK's allocation of previous EU structural fund programmes. We are still being short-changed and the way that replacement moneys are being allocated is a direct breach of very clear repeated manifesto pledges that Wales would not lose out by a single penny. The Conservatives really need to decide whether they want to celebrate Wales getting less or join the campaign for Wales to get its fair share, because the levelling-up fund is doing anything but that.

David Rees (Labour, Aberavon)

I now call on the party spokespeople to question the Minister. First, the Conservatives' spokesperson, Paul Davies.

Paul Davies (Conservative, Preseli Pembrokeshire)

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Minister, at the start of this month, you announced that you'd be launching a refreshed manufacturing action plan setting out the Welsh Government's ambitions for the manufacturing sector. Can you confirm when that action plan will be published?

Vaughan Gething (Labour, Cardiff South and Penarth)

I'm having a range of stakeholder engagements within the next couple of months with businesses in the area. We've undertaken a review of the previous manufacturing action plan. We've shared a consultation with businesses around that. I look forward to taking part directly with business representatives over the next two months. Then, I will be more than happy to launch that and take questions from Members, either in this place or, indeed, in the committee that the Member chairs.

Paul Davies (Conservative, Preseli Pembrokeshire)

It seems to me that the Minister doesn't know when he is going to launch this refresh, but I hope very much that it will be very, very soon.

A key part of the current manufacturing action plan is building supply chain resilience. Of course, the Welsh Government could use the levers it has to reform the planning system in order to strengthen and develop our supply chain. One of the points highlighted in the current plan is to ensure the needs of manufacturing are taken into account when planning the delivery of business premises, for example. So, can you tell us whether the Welsh Government has met this objective, and can you also tell us what further action you intend to take to reform the planning system in order to support business development in Wales?

Vaughan Gething (Labour, Cardiff South and Penarth)

There are two things, I would say. The first is that I've given an indication of where we are in refreshing the plan, and it's not very far away at all. The idea that I don't have any idea is a misrepresentation—I'm sure, innocently—of the answer that I gave the Member. Actually, this morning, I was able to visit a manufacturing business in Pontypool with the leader of Torfaen, who was celebrating his birthday today. He had the privilege of spending some time with me in doing so in my colleague the Member for Torfaen's constituency. We were looking there at a successful manufacturing business, nearly 10 years in operation, what it's done to improve what it's doing and how it's actually worked with the local authority as well as the Welsh Government to go through a range of planning conditions to improve its business environment. You'll know that I'm not the planning Minister, but it is something that we do consider. The way that 'Planning Policy Wales' interacts with the manufacturing strategy and a range of other things are key considerations for us. So, when we launch the manufacturing action plan, you can expect us to have taken account of all those interactions. But I won't pretend for the purposes of these questions that I'm also the planning Minister, as the Member knows I'm not.

Paul Davies (Conservative, Preseli Pembrokeshire)

As I said, I look forward to that refresh as soon as possible. Minister, it's crucial that the Welsh Government is using the levers that it has to help support our manufacturing sector, and a refresh of that action plan, of course, is a welcome start. Earlier this month, Steve Dalton, the former managing director of Bridgend's Sony factory, rightly said that there was a future for Welsh manufacturing if there was innovation, development of green technologies and a focus on global markets. Of course, key to that is skills development and investment in research and development. The current plan states that a more co-ordinated approach is needed to help produce a pipeline of talent, and regional skills partnerships should be playing an important role in ensuring that Wales is developing the skills base it needs for the future. Therefore, moving forward, Minister, can you tell us how the Welsh Government's draft budget prioritises manufacturing, by confirming that there will be additional resources to support the sector? And can you tell us what specific actions the Welsh Government has introduced to ensure that the sector has the skills it needs for the future?

Vaughan Gething (Labour, Cardiff South and Penarth)

Well, there are a number of things that I agree with the Member on, but there's also a point of contest between us about the environment that we're operating in, of course. So, I agree—innovation and global markets are key to the success of a range of manufacturing businesses. I was with the Member for Ogmore at the Sony site in Pencoed last week, looking at—. They're celebrating 50 years, and they appreciate the relationship they've had with the Welsh Government, and the change in that plant's operation over time, not just for the Sony operation to continue, but it's about the other businesses that are on that site too. And, in fact, when it comes to exports from Wales, we've now reached and gone past the level of exports we had before the pandemic—the first part of the UK to recover in those terms. So, actually, we're doing relatively well compared to other parts of the UK.

The challenge is that the environment we're in has changed significantly, and you will have seen and, no doubt, be concerned about the International Monetary Fund's latest forecast about the UK economy. The fact that we're in a different position within the UK to the rest of the G7, that's part of the challenge that we face. The challenge that's specifically here in Wales, of course—and you mentioned skills partnerships and the need to invest in skills and innovation—is that our funds have been deliberately denuded. The way that the UK Government made choices around replacement EU funds, knowing full well how we use those to support and invest in the skills of workforces, has made a real difference. That money has been reduced and it's been changed to a different purpose in a different area of articulation by the UK Government. Now, that reduction in money has a real-terms consequence. And you will have seen in the draft budget that we can't fill in all the holes about the UK Government making those choices, and, again, it's a deliberate reach and assault into devolution. These are areas that are plainly devolved, but the UK Government are making alternative choices. The Member may not like hearing it, but it's the truth of the matter, and, if you talked with and listened to what businesses, the higher education sector and others are saying, they all recognise that too.

David Rees (Labour, Aberavon)

Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Heledd Fychan.

Heledd Fychan (Plaid Cymru, South Wales Central)

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Deputy Minister, an Institute of Welsh Affairs report published last year described communities in Wales as the least empowered in Britain. It further stated that people are facing an arduous and demoralising process to save assets, such as leisure centres, libraries and land, and that it is extremely likely that libraries and land have been lost due to Welsh Ministers not empowering communities. As you will be aware, local authorities across Wales have been consulting on their budget proposals for the next financial year, and amongst proposals are changes or cuts to leisure centres, libraries and museums. What discussions have there been between Welsh Government and local authorities regarding the future of such services? And what support is being made available to ensure that these vital services are not lost? Some of these cuts are imminent, from 1 April, therefore time is of the essence.

Dawn Bowden (Labour, Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney)

I'm very well aware of the pressures on many of our local authorities and public bodies. We have done whatever we can to support both national institutions and the local authorities. The local authorities, as you know, have had the best financial settlement in a long time, and much higher than they had anticipated, and how they utilise that budget is a matter for them. They have their own democratic mandates and they have to make those decisions. I hope that the decisions that they come to, following their deliberations and their consultations, will be that they take things like leisure centres and museums in the whole and that they realise that they are part of the wider well-being agenda for their population. I think you have to look at that in a holistic way rather than on a piece-by-piece basis, but certainly we have provided for individual organisations—libraries, National Museum Wales, the National Library of Wales and so on—additional funding to get them through this immediate crisis, and, as I say, with the local authorities and their increased budgets, I hope that they will be able to do something. But one of the things that I am concerned about, and remain concerned about, is the UK Government's relief scheme that has still excluded swimming pools, for instance, from their proposals, and we do continue to press the UK Government to utilise their powers to support swimming pools, which are probably the hardest hit, and potentially the hardest hit in this process.

Heledd Fychan (Plaid Cymru, South Wales Central)

Thank you, Deputy Minister. But we know that councils will be cutting these vital services—services that, as you outline, are rightly incredibly important in terms of the future generations Act, health and well-being and so on. We know that these cuts are coming from 1 April unless something drastically changes. We know that financial settlement hasn't been adequate to ensure that those non-statutory services are protected. Therefore, my question is: what is Welsh Government doing to support local authorities? I know it's democratically up to them, but the choices they're having to make are incredible difficult. So, what support is being provided? You referenced swimming pools, for instance, and we saw over the weekend Fergus Feeney of Swim Wales warning that nearly a third of the 500 public swimming pools in Wales could close. And they are asking as well—yes, of course, the levers are with the UK Government—for action from the Welsh Government as well. So, as Deputy Minister with responsibility for sports, which would include swimming, what are you doing to ensure that that’s not the case?

Dawn Bowden (Labour, Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney)

First, I think I have to go back to my original point and a point that you have acknowledged: local authorities have their own democratic mandate. We can’t direct local authorities to do what they want to do with money that they have within their rate support grant. They will have to make their own decisions and make their own priorities. We can’t direct them in that area. What we have done is we have provided local authorities with a substantial uplift in their rate support grant and we have given as much as we can within our constraints. I think you’re coming from a point that somehow we have a pot of money that we can just dip into and allocate that we haven’t already allocated, and I think the finance Minister and the First Minister have explained time and time again on the floor of this Chamber how we have prioritised health and we have prioritised local government. Those two services in particular have had the highest settlements that we’ve been able to provide, and, within those settlements, those bodies have to make their spending decisions, particularly local authorities that have their own democratic mandate. And of course those choices are difficult; those choices are also difficult for Welsh Government in terms of where we allocate our resources. There are no easy choices. I have met with Swim Wales and I have rehearsed the arguments with Swim Wales. They understand the Welsh Government’s position, and of course they’re calling for more money, as every organisation that we help and that we fund and that we support is asking for more money. But we can only provide the funding that we can within the envelope that is available to us, and I hope that local authorities and leisure organisations will be able to make the best decisions that they can to protect as many of our leisure facilities as possible.

Gareth Davies (Conservative, Vale of Clwyd)

3. What steps is the Welsh Government taking to improve rural banking provision in Denbighshire? OQ59049

Vaughan Gething (Labour, Cardiff South and Penarth)

Decisions on scaling high-street banking back in Wales are ones that rest with the major retail banks. I applaud the efforts being made by a number of people, including those in Denbigh, to retain a bank branch. The Welsh Government will continue working with the Monmouthshire Building Society to realise our ambition for community banking in Wales.

Gareth Davies (Conservative, Vale of Clwyd)

I appreciate your response, Minister, and the reason I’m asking this question today is for that very reason, because HSBC in Denbigh is set to close in the summer as part of 114 branch closures across the UK. But what I don’t believe is that the due diligence has been considered for people in rural areas, and in particular the people of Denbigh, where some can’t travel as far as Rhyl or Ruthin to carry out their financial affairs if they are elderly, disabled, can’t drive or don’t have access to public transport. When I asked about this in the business statement last week, the Trefnydd told me that the matter wasn’t devolved to Wales and therefore didn’t require a statement. But you yourself, Minister, in 2021 released a statement on the Welsh Government’s plan to support towns that have lost their banks. So, which is it, Minister, and what are you going to do to support people in rural Denbighshire?

Vaughan Gething (Labour, Cardiff South and Penarth)

Financial services are not a devolved matter. However we have an ambition to help improve access to local services, which is why we’re engaged with the Monmouthshire Building Society on a programme to try to regenerate community banking in a range of communities in Wales.

I recognise that, within the over 100 closures across the UK, 12 of those HSBC closures will be in Wales. It’s part of the trend we’ve seen a part of the changing way consumers choose to bank, and what that means is there’s a divide in the way that different people access banking. So, it’s partly a rural issue, and it’s also issue in urban communities as well about having access to cash. Now, my understanding is that, whilst in Denbigh’s case, HSBC had created an impact analysis report, we’ve yet to see the stakeholder engagement report published and made available online to understand the direct cost. Now, we will carry on working with other partners in areas that we are not directly responsible for, but we're doing this because we recognise there should be real benefit for access to affordable financial services in communities that may not otherwise see them. So, we'll carry on working with our partners in Monmouthshire Building Society, we'll carry on in our conversations with the UK Government, and we look forward to seeing whether banking hubs really will provide the scale and the pace of roll-out to try to match the pace and the scale of branch closures. I'm not optimistic that we'll see a match between those two, but we'll carry on being engaged as constructively as we can and should be.

Jack Sargeant (Labour, Alyn and Deeside)

I'm grateful, Deputy Presiding Officer, to have the opportunity once again to raise the issue of banking provision in the Senedd. I think it's one that's well rehearsed on the floor of this Chamber. It's one that affects every corner of Wales. The Minister will be fully aware of my long-standing campaign to bring Wales's first community bank branch to Buckley in my own constituency. What is clear, Minister, is that there is clear cross-party consensus and support for the establishment of the Welsh Government's bold proposal of a community bank, but it's important that we now deliver that bold proposal. Can I ask the Minister whether he will do everything he can in his department to ensure Banc Cambria will be progressed as quickly as possible?

Vaughan Gething (Labour, Cardiff South and Penarth)

We're certainly looking to progress as quickly as possible, and that's the challenge, because the environment around this has changed. The environment in terms of the mortgage market is in a different place now, I'm afraid. We're likely to see a change in house prices over the next year, with a recession largely predicted. So, I'm meeting with my officials and Monmouthshire Building Society on the banking project. The Minister for Social Justice is also now engaged, because I have the task of trying to get the bank established and then it would switch to the Minister for Social Justice's portfolio for its ongoing engagement with Ministers here. The Member regularly raises Buckley, and I think he's also generously agreed that we could call the community bank the Buckley bank if we wanted to. Whilst I don't think we'll do that, we'll carry on keeping Members as informed as possible, and I'm hoping we'll have an update in the coming months on the pace of the work that's being done. I'm also very keen that Monmouthshire Building Society and Banc Cambria themselves engage directly with Members, because, you're right, there is cross-party support for this. It's important that it continues to be seen in that way with direct engagement with Members across the political spectrum.

Laura Anne Jones (Conservative, South Wales East)

4. Does the Welsh Government have an elite sports strategy? OQ59052

Dawn Bowden (Labour, Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney)

Sport Wales is the national organisation responsible for developing and promoting sport and physical activity in Wales and is doing so in line with its vision and strategy.

Laura Anne Jones (Conservative, South Wales East)

Thank you, Deputy Minister. You could have fooled me, as the strategy has not been updated since the initial release in 2015, eight years ago. Half of those aims relate to sporting bodies themselves, as you've just said. The rest needed Welsh Government's direct funding, which, of course, has been found lacking. The aim of the last strategy for Wales was to be the No. 1 Commonwealth Games sporting nation and to increase the number and quality of athletes on the UK world-class programmes. This hasn't happened.

Minister, the Government is failing elite sports. Labour have made no investment for decades. There's not been and still isn't any vision from this Welsh Government. We see no international swimming pool in north Wales, no rugby venue in the north, and we still have no equality of provision across Wales when it comes to facilities. As we see elite athletes and junior teams having to self-fund and travel to England to use the basic facilities, they are just not supported how they should be. Elite athletes and teams are not getting the investment they need or deserve, yet I see the Deputy Minister, of course, quick to celebrate any success when successes for our sportspeople are clearly in spite of this Welsh Government and the lack of funding, not because of them. When will we see the strategy updated and a true vision for elite sport in Wales?

Dawn Bowden (Labour, Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney)

Of course, the vision for sport is the replacement strategy, so the strategy that you're talking about hasn't been updated, it's been replaced. We now have the vision for sport that seeks to promote Wales to the world through the performance of our elite athletes and our sporting excellence. The Sport Wales sport strategy aims to deliver that success for Wales on the world stage through a holistic approach to developing athletes and creating environments where they can thrive. As I'm sure Laura Jones is well aware, Wales is an integral part of the UK high-performance system, so we don't sit alone in this and we are part of the Olympic and Paralympic Sport Wales athletes programme for team GB on the highest sporting stage. You will know yourself how many Welsh athletes contribute to the GB team at the Olympics and the success that they have had through that programme. It's just simply not true to say that there is no investment in sport in Wales. Our revenue budget to Sport Wales is £23 million in the last year. It will be another £24 million in the next financial year, and we have an annual capital budget for sport in Wales of £8 million a year. We've provided an increased in-year allocation this year on capital investment in sport of £1.54 million.

Now, the elite pathways for sport are developed through the national governing bodies. They are not the direct responsibility of Sport Wales; they are developed through the national governing bodies. It is also not true to say that Sport Wales doesn't support and fund individual elite athletes, because they do through the National Lottery and they receive support through Elite Cymru, which is part of Sport Wales. They will receive funding through that route when they are referred by their national governing bodies. So, our investment in sport is partly through the lottery and it is partly through the direct funding that Sport Wales receives. As I've said, we are part of international organisations and bodies as well.

Mike Hedges (Labour, Swansea East)

We cannot overestimate the importance of lottery funding to individuals. For the major team sports, such as football and rugby, player development is carried out by amateur and professional clubs, with professional football clubs having academies. Where support is needed is for younger players in sports such as tennis; players who need to travel to national and international tournaments and who need high-quality coaching. What support is being provided, either directly or indirectly, to these young people?

Dawn Bowden (Labour, Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney)

The support for team sports goes through the national governing bodies. Individual support can be afforded, as I've said, for individuals if they are referred through their national governing body through to Sport Wales.

Jack Sargeant (Labour, Alyn and Deeside)

5. What discussions has the Minister had with UK Government counterparts on protecting the future of the steel industry in Wales? OQ59034

Vaughan Gething (Labour, Cardiff South and Penarth)

The First Minister and I continue to engage with our key counterparts in the UK Government. I met with Ministers from the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy last week, when I raised steel as an issue. We also engage with senior representatives of the steel sector in Wales, on both the business and trade union side. We continue to believe, in the Welsh Government, in the importance of securing a sustainable future for the strategically important steel sector in Wales as part of what should be seen as sovereign UK capability.

Jack Sargeant (Labour, Alyn and Deeside)

I'm grateful to the Minister for his answer and, also, to the Welsh Government for their continued support for the steel industry in Wales. The Minister has joined me on many occasions at Shotton Steel in my own constituency, which proves that you understand the importance of Welsh steel and you understand the importance of Shotton having a supply of green steel.

Minister, industry partners like Tata Steel and the trade unions, such as Unite the Union and the Community union—and I declare that I'm a member of both trade unions, Deputy Presiding Officer—have both been calling for the UK Government to invest in the sector through ensuring that energy prices are competitive with competing nations and, also, to invest in the decarbonisation of plants. Now, the £600 million offered by the UK Government is simply not enough; that was the clear message of concern during the cross-party group on steel last night. We know that you'll be joining the cross-party group on steel some time in future. We're yet to hear from the Prime Minister, or the last three Prime Ministers, in response to our letters, which, perhaps, is no surprise. But, Minister, will you continue to lead calls for meaningful investment from the UK Government in the Welsh steel industry?

Vaughan Gething (Labour, Cardiff South and Penarth)

Yes, I'll certainly do that. And it's not just about meaningful investment, but you're right to point out that the industry itself recognises that it needs to chart a path to decarbonisation for a sustainable future. But, to do that, we shouldn't simply collapse our own capacity within the UK and end up importing steel without understanding the carbon footprint of steel produced in other parts of the world. This is a set of questions that will affect other Members in the Chamber. I see both Newport constituency Members with an interest in what's happening with Liberty; the Deputy Presiding Officer can't speak, but he's obviously got a significant interest too.

What we have been calling for is to get us to that greener future for steel production, and to recognise that it's important for a range of industries today. That means action on the high costs of energy compared to European counterparts. That also means action on scrap exports. We export millions of tonnes of scrap metal every year; we should be keeping more of that in the UK for our steel sector. We also want the UK Government to partner with the industry to chart out some of the challenges over capital investment. We also want to see investment in hydrogen as an alternative for blast steel technologies in the future, rather than seeing all of that take place in other parts of the world.

So, there are direct jobs, there are dependent jobs in the supply chain, and, of course, large industries, whether it's construction or manufacturing, that are reliant on steel, including the big opportunities that exist in marine energy and floating offshore wind. I want to see British and Welsh steel in those products in the future, and that requires a different approach from the UK Government. A £600 million offer between two companies isn't going to get us where we need to be, but at least there is an offer for us to work with, and hopefully see an end result that all of us can celebrate and be positive about.

Altaf Hussain (Conservative, South Wales West)

Minister, we all accept the need to decarbonise our steel industry. While the funding being offered by the UK Government to Tata to move to electric arc furnaces is welcome, an alternative has emerged in the past few days. Scientists at the University of Birmingham have developed a process to radically reduce emissions from a traditional blast furnace. This technology converts carbon dioxide into carbon monoxide that can be reused in the iron ore reaction. In this process, the typically damaged carbon dioxide is turned into a useful part of the reaction, forming an almost perfect closed carbon loop, and reduces emissions by around 90 per cent. Minister, will you work with the UK Government, Tata and Birmingham University to explore further whether this approach could enable Wales to retain its sovereign steel production activity? Thank you.

Vaughan Gething (Labour, Cardiff South and Penarth)

I'm seriously interested in maintaining that capability within the UK, and that will exist here. The challenge is that the £300 million offer for Tata to equalise the £300 million offer to British Steel—they're actually different scales of operation. And actually, that's about moving towards electric arc production rather than maintaining an alternative form of blast steel manufacture. The challenge really is around capital investment, and how quickly that can be deployed, and the window for doing so isn't infinite. It has been a regular conversation that, as I've said in response to Jack Sargeant, I've had directly with UK Ministers, the First Minister has had directly with UK Ministers and directly with steel firms and the trade union side as well. There needs to be a sense of urgency from UK Government on this, and I hope that the Chancellor uses the budget coming up in March as an opportunity to announce and agree something meaningful to give our steel sector the opportunity to invest in its future and our future, and as I say, to see this as a sovereign UK capability. If it does that, there should be good news for the workers here in Wales.

David Rees (Labour, Aberavon)

Luke Fletcher.

Luke Fletcher (Plaid Cymru, South Wales West)

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and thank you for your chairmanship of the cross-party group.

Luke Fletcher (Plaid Cymru, South Wales West)

The reality is that much of the investment for the steel industry must come from the UK Government, and I'd have to join Jack Sargeant in saying that it is disappointing that there is a reluctance from UK Government Ministers to engage with our CPG. In fairness to you, Minister, I think this will be the second time that you've come to the CPG now, and I know Members are very appreciative of that.

We know that steel is important for reaching net zero, so, to this end—and you mentioned hydrogen use in blast furnaces—I would like to explore further how steel factors into the Welsh Government's approach to hydrogen. Of course, hydrogen may offer a way of producing low-carbon steel and secure the industry's future, and the risk, of course, is that if we don't look at hydrogen more, we may focus too much on recycled steel.

Vaughan Gething (Labour, Cardiff South and Penarth)

There are investment choices being made in Holland—it's not a secret—around hydrogen as an alternative to blast furnace technology there. The challenge is that, if we don't see action taken by the UK Government to engage in that conversation, because they will need to be a partner to make that work, then we would end up importing that steel from other parts of the world. Now, it doesn't mean that the steel sector doesn't exist without blast furnace technology. There's a part of the sector that wouldn't exist, and the challenge then is, could you persuade a future UK Government and future businesses to invest in importing that technology that is proven somewhere else? There's a real risk for us in doing so. I also think it's important for what our ambitions are for steel itself, how we see it as a real capability, and it would make a big difference to workers in the sector. So, we've been really clear and really consistent that we want the UK Government to be part of this. And if it did so, and if you had that major investment made in that alternative technology, it would help with hydrogen use and pipeline, and the incentive to generate green hydrogen—[Inaudible.]—to significant industrial clusters, whether in south or north Wales. So, there should be alternative gains to be made, but that does require a significant UK Government choice.

John Griffiths (Labour, Newport East)

You mentioned Liberty Steel, Minister, and the mothballing of that plant has understandably created a great deal of concern. You would know, Minister, that that industrial operation is very extensive, and has many opportunities within it, I think. You've got the power station there, the rail links and the rail head, its own dock and the scale of the site; it has great potential, and there's a deal of frustration that that potential isn't being realised at the moment. So, will you, Minister, work with Liberty Steel and possibly others in the future to make sure that the potential in that site is fully realised for economic development and jobs growth?

Vaughan Gething (Labour, Cardiff South and Penarth)

Yes. I'm very happy to carry on working together with my officials, and the company, and counterparts in the UK Government if we can find an answer for the sites in both Newport and Tredegar. We want to see the steel sector have a healthy future. If we can't generate and produce that steel ourselves, we will end up importing it from other parts of the world, with greater risk in terms of price volatility, supply, and, of course, our understanding of the carbon footprint of that steel production. One of the positives is that the workforce are loyal to the site and to their workplace. There's a challenge there about maintaining that sense of unity. If we can help in securing an economic and sustainable future for the site, then I'm certainly happy to continue to work as hard as we possibly can to do so.

Mabon ap Gwynfor (Plaid Cymru, Dwyfor Meirionnydd)

6. Will the Minister provide an update on the Snowdonia Aerospace Centre in Llanbedr? OQ59050

Vaughan Gething (Labour, Cardiff South and Penarth)

Thank you for the question.

Vaughan Gething (Labour, Cardiff South and Penarth)

We remain committed to supporting the aerospace centre. We continue to work closely with Gwynedd Council, the site operator and other partners to help attract investment to the site. We recognise its global potential to the space sector for Wales, and in attracting economic activity to rural Gwynedd.

Mabon ap Gwynfor (Plaid Cymru, Dwyfor Meirionnydd)

Thank you very much for that response. The Government, of course, has invested millions in developing the Snowdonia aerospace centre in Llanbedr, and the Government has great ambitions for developing Wales as a leader in space technology. But experts in the area and the tenants on the site say that delivering these ambitions will be impossible without improvement to infrastructure to reach the site. In the absence of any public funds to build the link road, it's very difficult to see how the Government's ambitions are nothing but a pipe dream. So, what credible plan does the Government have in place for the Llanbedr centre, or is the Minister happy to see the Meirionydd coast being nothing more than a playground for visitors? Thank you.

Vaughan Gething (Labour, Cardiff South and Penarth)

No, that's absolutely not the vision of me individually, or, indeed, the Government. We have seen over £3.5 million of public investment in the site since 2012. We also have seen a range of activity, including remotely-piloted aircraft systems and unmanned aircraft test and evaluation programmes as a result. We're looking for the leaseholders of the site to work with us in actually designing the future, because there are other parts of our growing space sector that are interested in the future use of Llanbedr as a site for them. It's not all about Spaceport Cornwall. You'll have seen the flight that didn't quite make it into space, but one of the companies on there was a Welsh company. They also look at the potential, not just in Cornwall, but what they could do in Llanbedr as well. So, I think the challenge is how we get to that point, with the right investment partner, to actually see that potential realised. So, I don't take the downbeat view that the Member has in his supplementary. I think there is still a really positive future for significant economic development activity around that site for his constituents and beyond.

John Griffiths (Labour, Newport East)

7. How is the Welsh Government supporting small and medium-sized businesses across Newport East? OQ59054

Vaughan Gething (Labour, Cardiff South and Penarth)

We continue to do everything possible to support the SME sector throughout Wales through our progressive economic policies. These focus on better skills, better jobs and tackling inequality with the tools at our disposal. That includes working with our stakeholders and, of course, we will soon celebrate 10 years of our Business Wales business support programme.

John Griffiths (Labour, Newport East)

Yes. Often, I think, Minister, small and medium enterprises are so busy running their businesses that it's difficult to be aware of the help and support available, and, indeed, to spend the time to access that. But I must say Business Wales were invaluable in Newport East, and my constituency office worked very well with them during the pandemic, when they were able to make sure that a range of businesses accessed the support that was available. And I know that Business Wales has a strong offer in areas where the Welsh Government is able to act, for example, the economic resilience fund, and that was very much the case at the time. It was a sharp contrast, Minister, I must say, to UK Government, which left many gaps in support for businesses, and I do believe that that continues now, with too many businesses not being supported by UK Government with rising energy bills. This is something indeed that the Federation of Small Businesses have also raised with me. So, Minister, through Business Wales and other mechanisms, what additional support might Welsh Government consider to help small and medium-sized enterprises through this cost-of-doing-business crisis?

Vaughan Gething (Labour, Cardiff South and Penarth)

Thank you for the comments and questions. You're right about the economic resilience fund. I was in a different role during the pandemic, but the reality is that, because we didn't spend the same money on our test, trace, protect programme and the way that we used money on our personal protective equipment programme, meant that we provided more successful contact tracing at a lower price than the UK Government did, and we provided a more successful operation of providing PPE to front-line workers. That meant we could be more generous in supporting small and medium-sized businesses and freelancers through the pandemic.

The challenge now is, because of the reductions to our budget—not just in the mainstream settlements, but also things like the shared prosperity fund and others, where money's been taken away from Wales, over £1 billion lost in those three years—we've had to make some really difficult choices. But I've chosen to maintain the Business Wales service because of its value. So, small and medium-sized businesses will continue to have access to all of the support and advice available, together, of course, with investment opportunities from the Development Bank for Wales as well. I appreciate the Member's constituency takes in some of the Monmouthshire county as well, but, in Newport, up to the end of December last year, in the last two years, Business Wales had helped support over 1,000 jobs in small and medium enterprises, with dedicated support provided to 659 businesses and nearly 200 new start-ups. It does show the continued activity that we can and do offer to small and medium businesses, and I'd be more than happy to write to the Member with more details on activity across all the parts of his constituency.

Tom Giffard (Conservative, South Wales West)

8. What support is the Welsh Government providing to the Welsh tourism sector? OQ59044

Vaughan Gething (Labour, Cardiff South and Penarth)

Our strategy 'Welcome to Wales: Priorities for the visitor economy 2020-2025' sets out our vision and ambition for tourism. We support the sector through promoting Wales at home and abroad, through capital investment and our £50 million Wales tourism investment fund.

Tom Giffard (Conservative, South Wales West)

I'm grateful to you, Minister, for your answer. As you know, when people come and visit Wales, they don't just visit one site; they like to come and visit a number of attractions to see a number of things that Wales has to offer. One of the things that has been lacking, though, is an all-Wales visitor pass, if you like, for tourism destinations in Wales. It was withdrawn just before the pandemic, but we haven't seen it re-emerge. It's been nearly three years now. We know individual organisations, such as Cadw and National Trust, operate their own passes, and individual regional tourist boards, such as Mid Wales Tourism's and North Wales Tourism's Great Days Out UK, also offer them. But there's been a lack of an overarching strategy from Welsh Government and a lack of progress, I think, on this. As I say, it's been nearly three years now since we saw this pass. So, can I ask for an update on exactly where this overarching national Welsh tourism pass is?

Vaughan Gething (Labour, Cardiff South and Penarth)

Well, it's a conversation we had with the sector about what best to do to support them to make choices, how they promote themselves. Some of this is done on a regional basis successfully. For example, it may make more sense for a visitor to know about activity-based holidays if they're, say, going to Bike Park Wales, in the Deputy Minister's constituency, and if, at random, they wanted to come to the Cardiff International White Water centre, which happens to be in mine—but there are others available as well—and to think about how you can have themed activities that make sense for the businesses and for visitors. And I wouldn't want to say that this would only work if there is a national scheme that everyone has to fit into. We'll carry on working with the sector to understand how we can best support them, as we look forward to a 2023 where we'll expect we'll see significant growth in visitor numbers to Wales to the tourism sector, but we also know there'll be challenges ahead. As we see the likely recession for most of the next year, people will make different choices about their discretionary spend, so we're ready to carry on supporting the tourism sector. That's why I and the finance Minister have made choices about rate support for a range of different sectors in the economy.

David Rees (Labour, Aberavon)

Finally, question 9. Adam Price.

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Carmarthen East and Dinefwr)

9. Will the Minister provide an update on financial support available for small and medium-sized enterprises seeking to expand in Carmarthen East and Dinefwr? OQ59053

Vaughan Gething (Labour, Cardiff South and Penarth)

Thank you for the question.

Vaughan Gething (Labour, Cardiff South and Penarth)

Our Business Wales service provides businesses with access to a wide range of information, guidance and support, both financial and non-financial, to help grow businesses. Financial support between £1,000 and £10 million is available through the Development Bank of Wales to help Welsh businesses get the finance that they need to expand.

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Carmarthen East and Dinefwr)

Thank you, Minister. I had the pleasure of visiting the NappiCycle company in Capel Hendre recently, where I was given a very interesting presentation on recycling nappies. Now, I accept that this doesn't sound like an exciting afternoon, but the level of innovation by the company was excellent. Through various processes, NappiCycle use soiled nappies and similar products and turn them into asphalt for pavements and roads. The business is part of a recycling cluster in Wales that is world-leading, and has been for some years. Now, after the business received funding from part 1 of the small business research initiative, the company, like many others that have grown over the period, is looking forward to future funding to further expand the business. So, can the Minister tell us whether part 2 of SBRI will proceed and give us an update on any other opportunities to support this sector?

Vaughan Gething (Labour, Cardiff South and Penarth)

Funnily enough, I am aware of nappies being turned into asphalt. It's not just something that another relatively new parent would be interested in, given the Member has two young children in his house; I remember the days fondly, and not so fondly at various times, the reality of nappy changing. But there is an opportunity to think about how we can use products to turn them into something useful and with a different purpose in the future, and this is, perhaps, an obvious and interesting example. I'd be more than happy to come back to him. I am due to make a decision on SBRI 2 and the choices to be made around that. We are jointly working, of course, around an innovation strategy as well. I'll undertake to write to the Member both about opportunities for the company he mentions in his constituency as well as the broader point on how we help small businesses to access opportunities to grow and to innovate in the future.FootnoteLink

David Rees (Labour, Aberavon)

Thank you, Minister.

4. Questions to the Minister for Health and Social Services

David Rees (Labour, Aberavon)

Item 4 is questions to the Minister for Health and Social Services, and the first question is from Adam Price.

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Carmarthen East and Dinefwr)

1. What is the Welsh Government doing to ensure sufficient provision of NHS dental services in Carmarthen East and Dinefwr? OQ59048

Mair Eluned (Labour, Mid and West Wales)

Thank you. Hywel Dda University Health Board is responsible for the provision of dental services in Carmarthen East and Dinefwr. Currently, 92 per cent of NHS dental contract funding in the health board is going to practices that work under the contract reform variation. This means that nearly 12,000 new patients have been seen across the health board during the first nine months of this financial year.

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Carmarthen East and Dinefwr)

Thank you for that response, Minister. This is an issue that we've discussed on a number of occasions, and has been the subject of correspondence between us too. I must emphasise the gravity of this problem, as thousands of people in the Ammanford area particularly are reliant on a service that had been provided by the Margaret Street dentist there. I raised this issue with you in November of last year, and, in fairness to you, Minister, you did provide a positive response before Christmas, telling me that the health board was recommissioning dental services in the area, and that the new service was expected to be established this month. Unfortunately, the message that I've received from a number of constituents is that there's been no communication with them and that the service hasn't commenced as we enter February tomorrow. So, can you now give us an assurance and give my constituents an assurance that this new service will be coming as soon as possible?

Mair Eluned (Labour, Mid and West Wales)

Well, I'm pleased to say that the health board has been successful in providing a new contract to a new practice for Ammanford. One of the problems there has been is that the premises there were not functional, and that has caused a problem. It's going to take some time to ensure that the premises are fit for the treatment of people. So, that won't be ready until September. But what will happen is that there will be a mobile dental unit and hub available, and there will be urgent care available from February onwards.

Russell George (Conservative, Montgomeryshire)

It's, of course, incredibly difficult to ensure that the Government can plan efficiently, in terms of capacity for dental care in Wales, if the Government or health boards don't know how many people are waiting for an NHS appointment. I know you would agree with that position, Minister. It's also unacceptable, of course, that people, once they're on a waiting list, could be waiting up to 26 months before getting an appointment as well. So, I wonder, Minister, will you explore the options for a centralised waiting list for Wales? I appreciate that would take some time to put in place, so, as an interim measure, would you also explore ensuring that every health board establishes a centralised waiting list for its area? And if you do agree with that, when do you think that could be in place?

Mair Eluned (Labour, Mid and West Wales)

Thanks very much. Well, I know for a fact that quite a lot of work has already gone into developing a remit that would be needed in order to commission that centralised waiting list. We are, as you know, under very severe financial pressure at the moment, so, although that work is now ready to go, we are financially constrained in terms of whether we can go any further. So, that is a difficult situation for us. Obviously, we're keen to move on with that as soon as we get that additional money, but it's very difficult under the current financial circumstances. What I will say, in particular to the Member who is also chair of the committee, is that, actually, so many of the recommendations in the work that they've been doing recently have been extremely useful to us and, certainly, that centralised waiting list is something we're taking very seriously.

Andrew RT Davies (Conservative, South Wales Central)

2. Will the Minister make a statement on how the NHS in Wales deals with historical complaints? OQ59035

Mair Eluned (Labour, Mid and West Wales)

People wishing to raise a complaint with an NHS body should do so within 12 months. The NHS bodies have discretion to consider complaints that occurred over 12 months but cannot consider complaints that occurred over three years unless they meet specific criteria.

Andrew RT Davies (Conservative, South Wales Central)

Thank you, Minister, for that answer. You'll be aware of the case of my constituent, Barry Topping-Morris. He was caught up in events surrounding the release of a patient from the Caswell clinic in Bridgend who went on to commit homicide. Mr Topping-Morris has long raised concerns about the investigation of these events and the impact they had on his own subsequent career. What assurances can you give him that lessons have been learnt from previous events and that an investigation of any similar event today would be conducted to contemporary standards? And would you be prepared, Minister, to offer an apology to Mr Topping-Morris and his family for the distress that they've been through over the last many years since this complaint was first lodged?

Mair Eluned (Labour, Mid and West Wales)

Well, I'd like to say, and I think it's important to say, that there is nothing more important than the safety and care of our NHS patients. I recognise the significant consequences that can occur as a result of inadequate care. I'm really sorry, I don't think it's appropriate for me to comment on individual cases, but what I will say is that the complaints process has changed almost beyond recognition since the time of this particular case. So, we now have 'Putting Things Right', where there is a strong focus on openness and honesty, with a central theme of being open and investigations on the premise of 'investigate once and investigate well'. So, I think we've got to continue our improvement with the introduction of the duties of quality and candour, which will be coming onto the stature book very soon.

Darren Millar (Conservative, Clwyd West)

Minister, many people in north Wales will, of course, be very concerned to have read today's vascular report into the services provided by the Betsi Cadwaladr health board, and especially to learn that the coroner was not fully informed of four patient deaths from the 47 cases that were reviewed. Historical cases, of course—some of them going back as far as 2014, right up until 2021. Now, it begs the question as to how many other deaths, both in the vascular service and in other clinical disciplines, may not have been appropriately referred to the coroner for consideration. And of course, we read in that report also of the chaotic patient record keeping—and this is in spite of other reports having identified this as a problem over many years—along with a failure to fully implement the recommendations from previous scathing reports. It's alarming, Minister, and people want to know what action the Welsh Government is going to take to make sure that lessons are learned when things go wrong, and that rapid action is taken and is followed up in terms of the implementation of recommendations.

Mair Eluned (Labour, Mid and West Wales)

Well, thanks very much. I have issued a written statement to update all Members on the publication of that report today. I know that publication will be distressing for many of the families involved, and those who access vascular services within the health board. The cases covered within the report cover both pre and post-reorganisation of the service. I know that the health board has apologised to those affected by the report, and to the families who didn't receive the service that they deserved. This report looked in detail at the cases covered in the Royal College of Surgeons' report that was published last year, so these are not new cases; it's just a more thorough investigation.

There were a number of recommendations. We have, obviously, put the vascular service in particular into enhanced monitoring, to make sure that the intervention is monitored regularly. There is an improvement plan. I am updated regularly, and the Welsh Government is updated regularly. I know that my officials spoke yesterday to the north Wales coroner, because, obviously, I was very concerned to hear that the coroner hadn't been informed.

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

Spokespeople's questions today are all to be answered by the Deputy Minister for Health and Well-being. And the first is to be asked by the Conservative spokesperson, James Evans.

James Evans (Conservative, Brecon and Radnorshire)

Diolch, Llywydd. Deputy Minister, do you agree with me that having public access to mental health data on all mental health conditions is vital to improving mental health services across Wales?

Lynne Neagle (Labour, Torfaen)

Yes, I agree with you that having access to data is vitally important. That's why a key priority for us is to make sure that we can progress our core mental health data set, which will supplement the information that we already routinely publish on mental health waiting times.

James Evans (Conservative, Brecon and Radnorshire)

Thank you, Deputy Minister. Having access to information is important, as you've just realised, for the people we serve, and it also shines a light on the performance of the Welsh Government and health boards. For example, information that was only received via freedom of information requests to health boards shows that 7,258 children are waiting to have an autism diagnosis. Forty per cent of those children are waiting over a year, 22 per cent of those are waiting over 18 months, and 804 children are waiting over two years. And Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board refused to even answer the freedom of information request.

So, I'd like to know what the Welsh Government is doing to tackle these waits and to ensure that, when information is asked of Betsi Cadwaladr health board, they provide the information so that we can scrutinise their performance.

Lynne Neagle (Labour, Torfaen)

Thank you for that question, James, and it's probably helpful if I clarify that neurodevelopmental services sit with my colleague Julie Morgan, although we do work very closely together as there are, clearly, strong links with mental health services, particularly for children and young people. What I can say is that Julie Morgan has taken decisive action in this area. You'll be aware that £12 million was announced in the summer to deal with the backlog around ND waiting times, and also to support the improvement of ND services. In addition to that, Julie Morgan has also set up an ND advisory group and has been engaging with stakeholders, including people with lived experience, and there is an action plan to improve those waiting times.

For my part, I also recognise that our NEST/NYTH framework is also a key mechanism to support those children and young people, because we want those wraparound services to be available, and children and young people should not need the label of a diagnosis in order to access the support. So, NYTH is also a key area for us in that regard, and something that we work closely on.

James Evans (Conservative, Brecon and Radnorshire)

Thank you very much for that, Deputy Minister. After meeting with charities, a lot of them have told me about data not being regularly available, and that one way we could strengthen this area is by relooking at the Mental Health (Wales) Measure 2010 to make sure that there are more targets that the Government can actually implement upon and can be reported back to this Senedd.

So, do you agree with the charities out there in the sector that we need to have a strengthened mental health Measure, and is that something you would look to as a Government, to make sure that we can do our job as opposition parties here, to make sure that mental health services are being improved across Wales for better outcomes for the population of Wales?

Lynne Neagle (Labour, Torfaen)

Thank you. You're probably aware, James, that there is a duty to review the mental health Measure. We weren't able to progress that because of the pressures during the pandemic, and the delay in reviewing the mental health Measure was something that was agreed with the Wales Alliance for Mental Health—the third sector bodies that we meet with. So, they were on board with that decision to delay that. We are recommencing work around the duty to review the mental health Measure, so we are taking that work forward.

But what I would also say is that we've got a UK Government's that's reforming the Mental Health Act 1983. At the moment, we're waiting for them to progress that; that will involve us working with the UK Government on how that is implemented in Wales. We're also waiting for the UK Government to take forward their legislation on liberty protection safeguards—the deadlines for that have continued to move. So, at the moment, we're poised, ready to go on that; we've got large amounts of funding set aside to implement it. So, I do think we have to be mindful of the other legislative pressures that we face, and the capacity within the system to deal with that.

What I also think is that it is vitally important that we focus on delivery, and the most important thing for me is making sure that people get access to services, and I think we have to bear that in mind when we're considering any further reviews.

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Peredur Owen Griffiths.

Peredur Owen Griffiths (Plaid Cymru, South Wales East)

Diolch, Llywydd. The cost-of-living crisis is having a significant impact on our health service. From increasing health inequalities to preventing people from being warm and fed this winter, the NHS is showing signs of extreme strain and crisis. The strain is also evident in those who work in public health. The nurses' strike, backed by Plaid Cymru, has been well-documented in this Senedd. I'd like to take this opportunity to highlight the impact upon those working in the sector of substance use and addiction treatment. Earlier this month, ITV Wales reported on the cost-of-living struggles of peers with the drug and alcohol service. They spoke to Vinnie, a peer and recovered addict, who had been clean for three years, about his struggle to survive on his salary. He said,

'I'm relying on food banks, it's really tough, I don't have the heating on at home. I'm literally scared to turn on my heating, to turn on my gas because I'm just dreading that next bill, because I just haven't got (the money).'

Vinnie is not unique. Because of his history of drugs, he and many like him are vulnerable. I fear that the stress of the cost-of-living crisis will push many people like him off the platform of sobriety. Do you recognise the problems that exist within this sector, and do you have plans to remedy it with improved terms and conditions? I hope that you agree, especially given the alarming increase in drug and alcohol deaths, that we cannot afford to allow drug and alcohol services to be run on the cheap.

Lynne Neagle (Labour, Torfaen)

Thank you very much, Peredur. And can I take this opportunity to place on record my gratitude to the people who work as peer supporters in Wales? They do a phenomenal job. I certainly don't think we could be accused of running drug and alcohol services on the cheap. As you're aware, not only have we protected substance misuse funding in Wales, but we've actually increased the funding, and that includes for our peer-led services, which we've had to find extra money within Welsh Government funding for, because some of that funding came from the European Union, and obviously we lost that money. I do recognise, of course, that this is an incredibly tough time for everyone, including people working in the third sector, who we are really grateful to. That's why the Government has placed so much focus on using whatever levers we have to tackle the cost-of-living crisis, and that's why we are continuing, despite the very straitened circumstances that we face, to invest in substance misuse services, to help get people through this very difficult time.

Peredur Owen Griffiths (Plaid Cymru, South Wales East)

Thank you. We're still waiting for the Minister's workforce plan, which was promised for this month; given that there are a few hours left in the day, we remain in hope that it will come in time. Oh, there are thumbs up there, so that's good. Can you confirm that you and your officials were heavily involved in devising this plan? This is a key question, because mental health support has often compared badly with other areas of the NHS when it comes to priorities and funding. Improving access to psychological therapies was meant to be a key aim of the original 'Together for Mental Health' strategy, and has been a priority within each of the delivery plans, yet over the last 10 years, numerous reports have raised concerns about the access to psychological therapies on the back of substance misuse and addiction and those who are vulnerable to that. It's a real concern.

Despite some improvements, hundreds of people are still waiting beyond the 26-week target to access support. These are people who often need urgent treatment to prevent their mental health spiralling out of control. Does the Minister intend to reduce the target from 26 weeks and what steps are being taken to address the situation of those waiting a considerable time in some health board areas? Thank you.

Lynne Neagle (Labour, Torfaen)

Thank you, Peredur. I think you saw the Minister give a positive signal there that things are going well in terms of the workforce plan that she's taking forward. We also have a separate workforce plan for mental health, which is being developed by Health Education and Improvement Wales and Social Care Wales. That was launched in November. I'm really pleased that, because of the extra £75 million funding made available by the Welsh Government this year for mental health, including substance misuse, we are able to fund that workforce plan, which does come with a very hefty price tag in full. That will enable some immediate short-term actions to be taken on the workforce pressures that we face, including things like the training and employment of clinical associates in psychology, who aren't fully qualified in a doctorate for psychology, but are able to offer some psychological therapies, and access to psychology is a key part of that workforce plan.

I note the comments that you've made about waiting times for psychology services and, clearly, there is more work to do in that space. The NHS delivery unit is currently undertaking a review of psychological therapies for Welsh Government. That report is due in March and, as with their other reports on mental health, will provide us with a set of recommendations to make sure that we can improve services in a sustainable way.

The other point that I would make, Peredur, is that we are spending huge sums of money in Wales on open-access tier 0 and tier 1 support. There is online cognitive behavioural therapy available right across Wales for a range of lower level mental health issues. We've got our call helpline that's available 24 hours a day, and we are making really good progress with our 111 'press 2 for mental health', which is operating everywhere now in Wales and will be 24/7 by the spring. I think that will be a real game changer in terms of the 'no wrong door' approach to mental health.

Alun Davies (Labour, Blaenau Gwent)

3. Will the Minister make a statement on how health and social care providers are working together to manage hospital discharges effectively? OQ59043

Julie Morgan (Labour, Cardiff North)

Effective working across health and social care is essential in managing hospital discharges effectively. Working in partnership has been a real feature of our approach to the challenges the system is facing this winter and has resulted in an additional 595 community beds, which are aiding hospital discharge.

Alun Davies (Labour, Blaenau Gwent)

I'm grateful to the Minister for that response. It's certainly true to say that partnership working is a feature of the response of the Welsh Government. I'm not convinced it's a successful feature, I have to say. There's almost the equivalent of a whole hospital full of patients in the Aneurin Bevan health board area who, at any time, are able to be discharged into the community, but we're not able to do so. My feeling is that, all too often, we are putting enormous pressures on members of staff and service leaders to work around structures that are created, rather than to create structures that provide coherence in the delivery of services.

It appears to me, and I've been sitting here for perhaps too many years now, but, it appears to me—[Interruption.] [Laughter.] I'll carry on. It appears to me that it is time to bring these services together to create a single, coherent social care organisation that is able to deliver the care that people need and is able to support our professionals in the way they're delivering their job. Is it too late to recognise, Minister, that the number of boards and partnerships and other structures we've put in place simply are not delivering the care that people have the right to and deserve?

Julie Morgan (Labour, Cardiff North)

I thank the Member for that question. I'd like to emphasise how closely the Minister and I have been working to bring health and social care together. We have fortnightly meetings—the care action committee—where we drive developments that are jointly between health and social care, and that has resulted in 595 community beds, which are created by the local authorities, by the health boards, by them putting funding in—pooling funding. These 595 beds have had a really tremendous effect in enabling people to be discharged from hospital. In terms of where we go with social care, I think you know that we have a commitment to a national care service. We are taking the first steps in doing that in creating a national office, which we hope will be up now within the next year, and we're also having a national framework. Those are the first steps towards creating a national care service, which I agree is urgently needed.

Altaf Hussain (Conservative, South Wales West)

Minister, the fact that we don’t always have a smooth transition between healthcare and social care has placed our NHS under a tremendous burden. Nowhere is this more evident than in end-of-life care. At the cross-party group on hospices and palliative care last week, we heard that accessing out-of-hours services was diabolical. A carer took over 20 hours to get through to the 111 service during a weekend just to discuss medication. It is little wonder, therefore, that one in every 14 patients attending A&E is an end-of-life patient. Minister, what steps is your Government taking to improve end-of-life services in the community, so that patients, carers and care homes are not forced to access acute health services?

Julie Morgan (Labour, Cardiff North)

I thank Altaf Hussain for that very important question. It is, of course, vital that people needing to access end-of-life services are not put in the position where they are desperately trying to get information, particularly over a weekend. I’m aware of those sorts of situations, which I have experienced. A programme should be set up so that people, over weekends, for example, who are receiving end-of-life care—that there is specific cover for those periods. I know that that is done in many cases. People should not be left in that position. The Welsh Government does, as you know, put funding towards hospices and help in the community, a particular percentage. The voluntary sector provides a lot of money as well, and those services are very impressive services. I’m well aware of the services provided in Cardiff and the Vale of Glamorgan, for example, for end-of-life care at home. But obviously, I think, we must always do more to strive to improve that situation.

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

Question 4 [OQ59028] has been withdrawn.

Gareth Davies (Conservative, Vale of Clwyd)

5. What assessment has the Minister made of the condition of hospital estates across Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board? OQ59042

Mair Eluned (Labour, Mid and West Wales)

Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board is responsible for the condition of its own estate. It can submit business cases to the Welsh Government for capital funding for its assessed priorities, which have to be considered against the backdrop of significant capital pressures across NHS Wales.

Gareth Davies (Conservative, Vale of Clwyd)

Thank you for your response, Minister. I'm sure you're able to anticipate what I'm going to say, as it was reported in the BBC last week that only 62 per cent of buildings owned by Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board are classed as operationally safe. In Abergele hospital, which serves my constituents well, only 15 per cent of the building complies with modern day health and safety standards. The reason for this is primarily that the board has many old buildings with high running costs and old infrastructure that haven't moved with the times or modern-day health needs. My question is: if you look at this objectively, Minister, do you think that in the long term it would help the board make estate savings by investing more now in new building infrastructure, such as north Denbighshire community hospital in Rhyl, so that we can ensure better healthcare for local people in a way that also lowers running costs and is environmentally friendlier, allowing us to invest more in front-line services?

Mair Eluned (Labour, Mid and West Wales)

Thanks very much. I would love to invest more in our capital estate, but unfortunately our funding from the UK Government, when it comes to capital budgets, has not increased, and that does make life very difficult for us. What I will say is that over the past 10 years Betsi has received £455 million in capital expenditure, which is about 14 per cent of the Welsh total. That includes about £170 million on Ysbyty Glan Clwyd; £20 million on neonatal in Ysbyty Glan Clwyd; in Ysbyty Gwynedd, £14 million for the emergency department; £5 million in Flint; £4 million in Blaenau Ffestiniog; and £5 million in Tywyn. I could go on and on. The point is, we are trying to do our best. You do have to prioritise in these difficult circumstances, but obviously there has been an increase in the backlog figures, because, as you say, of the age of many of those major and acute sites, which is why what we have asked is that the health board considers what they think the priorities should be, and then obviously we as a Government will make a judgment after that.

Paul Davies (Conservative, Preseli Pembrokeshire)

6. What is the Welsh Government doing to improve health services in Preseli Pembrokeshire? OQ59024

Mair Eluned (Labour, Mid and West Wales)

Hywel Dda University Health Board is responsible for the provision of safe, sustainable high-quality healthcare services for its local population, based on the best and most up-to-date clinical evidence and advice.

Paul Davies (Conservative, Preseli Pembrokeshire)

Thank you for that response, Minister. As you know, there are concerns over primary healthcare services in Solva in my constituency, following the news that the GP partner has announced her retirement. Hywel Dda University Health Board has held some public engagement on this development and was writing to all patients registered at the surgery, and that's extremely important, as the local community must be consulted on how they think provision can continue to be delivered in the future. This of course follows on from Neyland and Johnston surgery in my constituency, which is now under health board control because of a retirement at that practice as well. Minister, people in my constituency are concerned that access to a GP in parts of Pembrokeshire is becoming increasingly difficult. Can you tell us what the Welsh Government is doing to address this matter? What work are you doing with the local health board to ensure that people can access a local GP wherever they live in Pembrokeshire?

Mair Eluned (Labour, Mid and West Wales)

Thanks very much. I'm very aware of the situation in Solva. I can't go very far without somebody bringing it up with me when I'm home. I'm pleased to say that I met with the chair and chief executive of Hywel Dda health board on Thursday, and I was able to discuss this issue with them. As you noted, there has been an engagement with the community already. It is very difficult, because obviously we could put all the measures we want in place, but the key thing is how do you get a GP to go there. There is a real challenge when it comes to single-handed practices. We do have to, perhaps, think creatively about how we go about filling these roles that are quite difficult. I know that we had a real challenge in the past in attracting someone, for example, to Goodwick, where we actually put a £20,000 additional golden handshake on the table and still nobody came. These are not easy to resolve. You can't force people to go to these places. But obviously, our approach is to try and make sure that these people don't work alone and that they have a team around them. But even then, what we find works best is when you have a community of GPs working together. That's obviously difficult in places like Solva, so we just have to try and be creative and work with the community. But I know that the health board is going to make every effort to see what they can put in place by the termination date of 31 March.

Jane Dodds (Liberal Democrat, Mid and West Wales)

7. What steps is the Welsh Government taking to reduce waiting times for NHS dental care? OQ59040

Mair Eluned (Labour, Mid and West Wales)

Under their contract reform arrangements, dental practices focus on prevention and needs-based care rather than providing routine check-ups every six months to all patients. As a result of this shift, more than 123,000 new patients have gained access to an NHS dentist thus far this year.

Jane Dodds (Liberal Democrat, Mid and West Wales)

Thank you for that answer.

Jane Dodds (Liberal Democrat, Mid and West Wales)

You'll know that NHS dentistry is something that I've raised with you time and time again in this Siambr. I'm concerned to hear again that we're hearing about these additional appointments—120,000 we've heard before, and I think 130,000 you said this time—