Scottish Parliament, 2 September 2026
63 contributions from 13 members. The official report.
Business Motion
A member
17:30
Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)
The next item of business is consideration of business motion S7M-00984, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, on the programme of business.
Motion moved,
That the Parliament
agrees—
(a) the following programme of business—
Tuesday 8 September 2026
2.00 pm Time for Reflection
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
followed by General Questions
followed by First Minister’s Questions (Backbench Members)
followed by Scottish Government Debate: Programme for Government – An Economy Fit for the Future
followed by Committee Announcements
followed by Business Motions
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
5.30 pm Decision Time
followed by Members’ Business
Wednesday 9 September 2026
2.00 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions
2.00 pm Portfolio Questions: Deputy First Minister Responsibilities, Finance and Local Government, Parliamentary Businessand Veterans; Public Service Reform, Europe, External Affairs and Energy
followed by Scottish Government Debate: Building Stronger, Safer and Inclusive Communities, Together
followed by Business Motions
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
5.30 pm Decision Time
followed by Members’ Business
Thursday 10 September 2026
1.30 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions
1.30 pm General Questions
2.00 pm First Minister’s Questions (Party Leaders)
followed by Scottish Government Debate: Scotland's Energy Opportunity
followed by Business Motions
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
5.00 pm Decision Time
followed by Members’ Business
Tuesday 15 September 2026
2.00 pm Time for Reflection
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
followed by General Questions
followed by First Minister’s Questions (Backbench Members)
followed by Scottish Government Business
followed by Committee Announcements
followed by Business Motions
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
5.30 pm Decision Time
followed by Members’ Business
Wednesday 16 September 2026
2.00 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions
2.00 pm Portfolio Questions: Justice; Health and Care
followed by Scottish Green Party Debate
followed by Business Motions
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
5.30 pm Decision Time
followed by Members’ Business
Thursday 17 September 2026
1.30 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions
1.30 pm General Questions
2.00 pm First Minister’s Questions (Party Leaders)
followed by Scottish Government Business
followed by Business Motions
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
5.00 pm Decision Time
followed by Members’ Business
(b) that, for the purposes of Portfolio Questions in the week beginning 7 September 2026, in rule 13.7.3, after the word “except” the words “to the extent to which the Presiding Officer considers that the questions are on the same or similar subject matter or” are inserted.—[Jamie Hepburn]
Motion agreed to.
Parliamentary Bureau Motions
A member
17:31
Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)
The next item of business is consideration of five Parliamentary Bureau motions. I ask Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, to move motions S7M-00985, on substitutions on committees, S7M-00986, on designation of a lead committee, S7M-00987, on designation of a lead committee, S7M-00988, on designation of a lead committee, and S7M-01014, on parliamentary recess dates.
Motions moved,
That the Parliament agrees that—
Mark Simpson be appointed as the Reform UK substitute on the Criminal Justice Committee
David Kirkwood be appointed as the Reform UK substitute on the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee
Kim Schmulian be appointed as the Reform UK substitute on the Economy, Tourism and Energy Committee
Julie MacDougall be appointed as the Reform UK substitute on the Education and Gaelic Committee
Senga Beresford be appointed as the Reform UK substitute on the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee
Thomas Kerr be appointed as the Reform UK substitute on the Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee
Angela Ross be appointed as the Reform UK substitute on the Finance and Public Administration Committee
Victor Currie be appointed as the Reform UK substitute on the Health, Care and Sport Committee
Duncan Massey be appointed as the Reform UK substitute on the Public Audit Committee
Graham Simpson be appointed as the Reform UK substitute on the Public Petitions Committee
Helen McDade be appointed as the Reform UK substitute on the Public Service Reform Committee
Max Bannerman be appointed as the Reform UK substitute on the Rural Affairs Committee
Julie MacDougall be appointed as the Reform UK substitute on the Social Justice, Housing and Local Government Committee
Jamie Langan be appointed as the Reform UK substitute on the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee
Amanda Lindsay be appointed as the Reform UK substitute on the Transport Committee
Finlay Carson be appointed as the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party substitute on the Climate Action Committee
Meghan Gallacher be appointed as the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party substitute on the Criminal Justice Committee
Liam Kerr be appointed as the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party substitute on the Economy, Tourism and Energy Committee
Rachael Hamilton be appointed as the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party substitute on the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee
Murdo Fraser be appointed as the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party substitute on the Finance and Public Administration Committee
James Adams be appointed as the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party substitute on the Rural Affairs Committee
Tim Eagle be appointed as the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party substitute on the Social Justice, Housing and Local Government Committee
Rachael Hamilton be appointed as the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party substitute on the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee
Alexander Burnett be appointed as the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party substitute on the Public Audit Committee
Craig Hoy be appointed as the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party substitute on the Public Service Reform Committee
Mark Ruskell be appointed as the Scottish Green Party substitute on the Climate Action Committee
Laura Moodie be appointed as the Scottish Green Party substitute on the Criminal Justice Committee
Kayleigh Kinross-O’Neill be appointed as the Scottish Green Party substitute on the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee
Iris Duane be appointed as the Scottish Green Party substitute on the Education and Gaelic Committee
Ross Greer be appointed as the Scottish Green Party substitute on the Economy, Tourism and Energy Committee
Kate Nevens be appointed as the Scottish Green Party substitute on the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee
Kate Nevens be appointed as the Scottish Green Party substitute on the Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee
Cara McKee be appointed as the Scottish Green Party substitute on the Health, Care and Sport Committee
Q Manivannan be appointed as the Scottish Green Party substitute on the Public Petitions Committee
Kristopher Leask be appointed as the Scottish Green Party substitute on the Public Service Reform Committee
Ariane Burgess be appointed as the Scottish Green Party substitute on the Rural Affairs Committee
Patrick Harvie be appointed as the Scottish Green Party substitute on the Transport Committee
Donald MacKinnon be appointed as the Scottish Labour Party substitute on the Climate Action Committee
Daniel Johnson be appointed as the Scottish Labour Party substitute on the Criminal Justice Committee
Katy Clark be appointed as the Scottish Labour Party substitute on the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee
Paul Sweeney be appointed as the Scottish Labour Party substitute on the Economy, Tourism and Energy Committee
Jenny Young be appointed as the Scottish Labour Party substitute on the Education and Gaelic Committee
Jackie Baillie be appointed as the Scottish Labour Party substitute on the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee.
Katherine Sangster be appointed as the Scottish Labour Party substitute on the Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee
Joe Fagan be appointed as the Scottish Labour Party substitute on the Finance and Public Administration Committee
Jackie Baillie be appointed as the Scottish Labour Party substitute on the Health, Care and Sport Committee
Monica Lennon be appointed as the Scottish Labour Party substitute on the Public Audit Committee
Irshad Ahmed be appointed as the Scottish Labour Party substitute on the Public Petitions Committee
Michael Marra be appointed as the Scottish Labour Party substitute on the Public Service Reform Committee
Carol Mochan be appointed as the Scottish Labour Party substitute on the Social Justice, Housing and Local Government Committee
Mark Griffin be appointed as the Scottish Labour Party substitute on the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee
Monica Lennon be appointed as the Scottish Labour Party substitute on the Transport Committee
Andrew Baxter be appointed as the Scottish Liberal Democrat Party substitute on the Climate Action Committee
Adam Harley be appointed as the Scottish Liberal Democrat Party substitute on the Education and Gaelic Committee
Alex Cole Hamilton be appointed as the Scottish Liberal Democrat Party substitute on the Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee
Alex Cole Hamilton be appointed as the Scottish Liberal Democrat Party substitute on the Finance and Public Administration Committee
Duncan Dunlop be appointed as the Scottish Liberal Democrat Party substitute on the Health, Care and Sport Committee
David Green be appointed as the Scottish Liberal Democrat Party substitute on the Rural Affairs Committee
Yi-pei Chou Turvey be appointed as the Scottish Liberal Democrat Party substitute on the Social Justice, Housing and Local Government Committee
Sanne Dijkstra-Downie be appointed as the Scottish Liberal Democrat Party substitute on the Transport Committee
Pauline Stafford be appointed as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Climate Action Committee
Colm Merrick be appointed as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Criminal Justice Committee
Collette Stevenson be appointed as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee
Lloyd Melville be appointed as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Economy, Tourism and Energy Committee
Jackie Dunbar be appointed as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Education and Gaelic Committee
Steven Bonnar be appointed as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee
Heather Anderson be appointed as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee
Alex Kerr be appointed as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Finance and Public Administration Committee
David Torrance be appointed as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Health, Care and Sport Committee
Zen Ghani be appointed as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Public Audit Committee
Laura Mitchell be appointed as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Public Petitions Committee
Paul McLennan be appointed as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Public Service Reform Committee
David Barratt be appointed as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Rural Affairs Committee
Fulton MacGregor be appointed as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Social Justice, Housing and Local Government Committee
Patricia Gibson be appointed as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee
Martyn Day be appointed as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Transport Committee
That the Parliament agrees that the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee be designated as the lead committee in consideration of the legislative consent memorandum on the Immigration and Asylum Bill.
That the Parliament agrees that the Finance and Public Administration Committee be designated as the lead committee in consideration of the supplementary legislative consent memorandum on the Public Office (Accountability) Bill.
That the Parliament agrees that the Economy, Tourism and Energy Committee be designated as the lead committee in consideration of the supplementary legislative consent memorandum on the Sporting Events Bill.
That the Parliament agrees the following parliamentary recess dates under Rule 2.3.1: 13 to 21 February 2027 (inclusive), 3 to 18 April 2027 (inclusive), 26 June to 29 August 2027 (inclusive), 9 to 24 October 2027 (inclusive), 20 December 2027 to 2 January 2028 (inclusive).—[Jamie Hepburn]
Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)
The question on the motions will be put at decision time.
Decision Time
A member
17:32
Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)
There are eight questions to be put as a result of today’s business. If the amendment in the name of Helen McDade is agreed to, the amendment in the name of Jackie Baillie will fall.
The first question is, that amendment S7M-01003.5, in the name of Helen McDade, which seeks to amend motion S7M-01003, in the name of Angela Constance, on the programme for government: improving lives through delivering for Scotland, be agreed to. Are we agreed?
Members: No.
Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)
There will be a division.
There will be a short suspension to allow members to access the digital voting system.
17:33
Meeting suspended.
17:37
On resuming—
Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)
One or two members have been having difficulties in accessing the system. If you still do, please raise a point of order in the normal way.
We come to the vote on amendment S7M-01003.5, in the name of Helen McDade, which seeks to amend motion S7M-01003, in the name of Angela Constance. Members should cast their votes now.
The vote is closed.
Monica Lennon (Labour, Glasgow)
On a point of order, Presiding Officer—anything to get on the record. [Laughter.] I would have voted no.
Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)
Your vote has finally been recorded.
Jamie Hepburn (Scottish National Party, Cumbernauld and Kilsyth)
Welcome back! [Laughter.]
Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)
The result of the division on amendment S7M-01003.5, in the name of Helen McDade, is: For 17, Against 93, Abstentions 10.
Amendment disagreed to.
Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)
The next question is, that amendment S7M-01003.1, in the name of Jackie Baillie, which seeks to amend motion S7M-01003, in the name of Angela Constance, on the programme for government: improving lives through delivering for Scotland, be agreed to. Are we agreed?
Members: No.
Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)
There will be a division.
The vote is closed.
Monica Lennon (Labour, Glasgow)
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I would have voted yes.
Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)
Thank you. Your vote has been recorded. Welcome back.
Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)
The result of the division on amendment S7M-01003.1, in the name of Jackie Baillie, is: For 52, Against 69, Abstentions 0.
Amendment disagreed to.
Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)
The next question is, that amendment S7M-01003.2 in the name of Kayleigh Kinross-O’Neill, which seeks to amend motion S7M-01003, in the name of Angela Constance, on the programme for government: improving lives through delivering for Scotland, be agreed to. Are we agreed?
Members: No.
Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)
There will be a division.
The vote is closed.
Monica Lennon (Labour, Glasgow)
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I would have voted yes.
Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)
Your vote has been recorded.
Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)
The result of the division on amendment S7M-01003.2, in the name of Kayleigh Kinross-O’Neill, is: For 40, Against 81, Abstentions 0.
Amendment disagreed to.
Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)
The next question is, that amendment S7M-01003.4, in the name of Miles Briggs, which seeks to amend motion S7M-01003, in the name of Angela Constance, on the programme for government: improving lives through delivering for Scotland, be agreed to. Are we agreed?
Members: No.
Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)
There will be a division.
The vote is closed.
Monica Lennon (Labour, Glasgow)
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I would have abstained.
Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)
Your abstention has been recorded.
Malcolm (Reform UK, West Scotland)
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I would have voted yes.
Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)
Your vote has been recorded.
Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)
The result of the division on amendment S7M-01003.4, in the name of Miles Briggs, is: For 27, Against 78, Abstentions 16.
Amendment disagreed to.
Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)
The next question is, that amendment S7M-01003.3, in the name of Adam Harley, which seeks to amend motion S7M-01003, in the name of Angela Constance, on the programme for government: improving lives through delivering for Scotland, be agreed to. Are we agreed?
Members: No.
Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)
There will be a division.
The vote is closed. There is a point of order—three guesses. [Laughter.]
Monica Lennon (Labour, Glasgow)
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I would have voted yes.
Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)
Thank you. Your vote has been recorded.
Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)
The result of the division on amendment S7M-01003.3, in the name of Adam Harley, is: For 107, Against 14, Abstentions 0.
Amendment agreed to.
Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)
The next question is, that motion S7M-01003, in the name of Angela Constance, on the programme for government: improving lives through delivering for Scotland, as amended, be agreed to. Are we agreed?
Members: No.
Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)
There will be a division.
The vote is closed.
Monica Lennon (Labour, Glasgow)
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I would have voted yes.
Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)
Thank you. Your vote has been recorded.
Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)
The result of the division on motion S7M-01003, in the name of Angela Constance, on the programme for government: improving lives through delivering for Scotland, as amended, is: For 91, Against 19, Abstentions 0.
Motion, as amended, agreed to,
That the Parliament notes the publication of the Scottish Government's Programme for Government, Ambitious for Scotland, which commits to renewing Scotland's public services through prevention, integration and reform; recognises the Programme for Government's focus on public service reform and commitment to ensuring that decision-making and service delivery sit at the level best placed to improve people's lives; agrees with the need to empower communities and regions to make the decisions that improve delivery; further agrees with the need to reduce NHS waiting times, support the shift of care from hospitals into communities through strengthened primary care, digital innovation and expanded community services; welcomes the need for action to tackle health inequalities, improve population health, and treat substance misuse as a public health priority; agrees that public service reform must be shaped by and with the workforce, while delivering better outcomes for people and communities across Scotland; believes that there is no way to fix the NHS without fixing care, and that removing the care bottleneck would tackle the number of patients remaining in hospital due to delayed discharge, reduce waits in departments such as A&E, and reduce instances of corridor care; agrees that where public service reform seeks to improve lives and end practices that may cause harm, there should be mechanisms in place to evaluate proposals and properly measure outcomes, and calls, therefore, on the Scottish Government to set out how it will measure, monitor and report on the volume and frequency of corridor care as part of the work required to eradicate it.
Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)
I propose to ask a single question on multiple Parliamentary Bureau motions on committee substitutions and the designation of lead committees. Does any member object?
As no member has objected, the next question is, that motions S7M-00985, S7M-00986, S7M-00987 and S7M-00988, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, be agreed to.
Motions agreed to,
That the Parliament agrees that—
Mark Simpson be appointed as the Reform UK substitute on the Criminal Justice Committee
David Kirkwood be appointed as the Reform UK substitute on the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee
Kim Schmulian be appointed as the Reform UK substitute on the Economy, Tourism and Energy Committee
Julie MacDougall be appointed as the Reform UK substitute on the Education and Gaelic Committee
Senga Beresford be appointed as the Reform UK substitute on the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee
Thomas Kerr be appointed as the Reform UK substitute on the Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee
Angela Ross be appointed as the Reform UK substitute on the Finance and Public Administration Committee
Victor Currie be appointed as the Reform UK substitute on the Health, Care and Sport Committee
Duncan Massey be appointed as the Reform UK substitute on the Public Audit Committee
Graham Simpson be appointed as the Reform UK substitute on the Public Petitions Committee
Helen McDade be appointed as the Reform UK substitute on the Public Service Reform Committee
Max Bannerman be appointed as the Reform UK substitute on the Rural Affairs Committee
Julie MacDougall be appointed as the Reform UK substitute on the Social Justice, Housing and Local Government Committee
Jamie Langan be appointed as the Reform UK substitute on the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee
Amanda Lindsay be appointed as the Reform UK substitute on the Transport Committee
Finlay Carson be appointed as the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party substitute on the Climate Action Committee
Meghan Gallacher be appointed as the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party substitute on the Criminal Justice Committee
Liam Kerr be appointed as the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party substitute on the Economy, Tourism and Energy Committee
Rachael Hamilton be appointed as the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party substitute on the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee
Murdo Fraser be appointed as the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party substitute on the Finance and Public Administration Committee
James Adams be appointed as the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party substitute on the Rural Affairs Committee
Tim Eagle be appointed as the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party substitute on the Social Justice, Housing and Local Government Committee
Rachael Hamilton be appointed as the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party substitute on the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee
Alexander Burnett be appointed as the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party substitute on the Public Audit Committee
Craig Hoy be appointed as the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party substitute on the Public Service Reform Committee
Mark Ruskell be appointed as the Scottish Green Party substitute on the Climate Action Committee
Laura Moodie be appointed as the Scottish Green Party substitute on the Criminal Justice Committee
Kayleigh Kinross-O'Neill be appointed as the Scottish Green Party substitute on the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee
Iris Duane be appointed as the Scottish Green Party substitute on the Education and Gaelic Committee
Ross Greer be appointed as the Scottish Green Party substitute on the Economy, Tourism and Energy Committee
Kate Nevens be appointed as the Scottish Green Party substitute on the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee
Kate Nevens be appointed as the Scottish Green Party substitute on the Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee
Cara McKee be appointed as the Scottish Green Party substitute on the Health, Care and Sport Committee
Q Manivannan be appointed as the Scottish Green Party substitute on the Public Petitions Committee
Kristopher Leask be appointed as the Scottish Green Party substitute on the Public Service Reform Committee
Ariane Burgess be appointed as the Scottish Green Party substitute on the Rural Affairs Committee
Patrick Harvie be appointed as the Scottish Green Party substitute on the Transport Committee
Donald MacKinnon be appointed as the Scottish Labour Party substitute on the Climate Action Committee
Daniel Johnson be appointed as the Scottish Labour Party substitute on the Criminal Justice Committee
Katy Clark be appointed as the Scottish Labour Party substitute on the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee
Paul Sweeney be appointed as the Scottish Labour Party substitute on the Economy, Tourism and Energy Committee
Jenny Young be appointed as the Scottish Labour Party substitute on the Education and Gaelic Committee
Jackie Baillie be appointed as the Scottish Labour Party substitute on the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee
Katherine Sangster be appointed as the Scottish Labour Party substitute on the Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee
Joe Fagan be appointed as the Scottish Labour Party substitute on the Finance and Public Administration Committee
Jackie Baillie be appointed as the Scottish Labour Party substitute on the Health, Care and Sport Committee
Monica Lennon be appointed as the Scottish Labour Party substitute on the Public Audit Committee
Irshad Ahmed be appointed as the Scottish Labour Party substitute on the Public Petitions Committee
Michael Marra be appointed as the Scottish Labour Party substitute on the Public Service Reform Committee
Carol Mochan be appointed as the Scottish Labour Party substitute on the Social Justice, Housing and Local Government Committee
Mark Griffin be appointed as the Scottish Labour Party substitute on the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee
Monica Lennon be appointed as the Scottish Labour Party substitute on the Transport Committee
Andrew Baxter be appointed as the Scottish Liberal Democrat Party substitute on the Climate Action Committee
Adam Harley be appointed as the Scottish Liberal Democrat Party substitute on the Education and Gaelic Committee
Alex Cole Hamilton be appointed as the Scottish Liberal Democrat Party substitute on the Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee
Alex Cole Hamilton be appointed as the Scottish Liberal Democrat Party substitute on the Finance and Public Administration Committee
Duncan Dunlop be appointed as the Scottish Liberal Democrat Party substitute on the Health, Care and Sport Committee
David Green be appointed as the Scottish Liberal Democrat Party substitute on the Rural Affairs Committee
Yi-pei Chou Turvey be appointed as the Scottish Liberal Democrat Party substitute on the Social Justice, Housing and Local Government Committee
Sanne Dijkstra-Downie be appointed as the Scottish Liberal Democrat Party substitute on the Transport Committee
Pauline Stafford be appointed as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Climate Action Committee
Colm Merrick be appointed as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Criminal Justice Committee
Collette Stevenson be appointed as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee
Lloyd Melville be appointed as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Economy, Tourism and Energy Committee
Jackie Dunbar be appointed as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Education and Gaelic Committee
Steven Bonnar be appointed as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee
Heather Anderson be appointed as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee
Alex Kerr be appointed as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Finance and Public Administration Committee
David Torrance be appointed as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Health, Care and Sport Committee
Zen Ghani be appointed as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Public Audit Committee
Laura Mitchell be appointed as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Public Petitions Committee
Paul McLennan be appointed as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Public Service Reform Committee
David Barratt be appointed as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Rural Affairs Committee
Fulton MacGregor be appointed as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Social Justice, Housing and Local Government Committee
Patricia Gibson be appointed as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee
Martyn Day be appointed as the Scottish National Party substitute on the Transport Committee
That the Parliament agrees that the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee be designated as the lead committee in consideration of the legislative consent memorandum on the Immigration and Asylum Bill.
That the Parliament agrees that the Finance and Public Administration Committee be designated as the lead committee in consideration of the supplementary legislative consent memorandum on the Public Office (Accountability) Bill.
That the Parliament agrees that the Economy, Tourism and Energy Committee be designated as the lead committee in consideration of the supplementary legislative consent memorandum on the Sporting Events Bill.
Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)
The next question is, that Parliamentary Bureau motion S7M-01014, on parliamentary recess dates, be agreed to.
Motion agreed to,
That the Parliament agrees the following parliamentary recess dates under Rule 2.3.1: 13 to 21 February 2027 (inclusive), 3 to 18 April 2027 (inclusive), 26 June to 29 August 2027 (inclusive), 9 to 24 October 2027 (inclusive), 20 December 2027 to 2 January 2028 (inclusive).
Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)
That concludes decision time.
Apologies, folks. Before we move to the members’ business debate, I note that, apparently, there was a slight glitch in updating the system when we were running the vote on motion S7M-01003, so I will just read out the result again.
The result of the division on motion S7M-01003, in the name of Angela Constance, on the programme for government: improving lives through delivering for Scotland, as amended, is: For 92, Against 19, Abstentions 10.
That is the record clarified.
Driving Test Delays
Katy (Labour, West Scotland)
The final item of business is a members’ business debate on motion S7M-00832, in the name of Keith Brown, on driving test delays and the impact on learners in Scotland. The debate will be concluded without any question being put.
Motion debated,
That the Parliament notes with concern the experiences of learners and families across the Clackmannanshire and Dunblane constituency regarding continuing difficulties in accessing practical driving tests through the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA); believes that these experiences are reflected across communities in Scotland, where what was initially presented as a temporary backlog has become a longstanding problem affecting learner drivers; understands that many learners report logging on before 6.00am only to find themselves behind tens of thousands of others in online booking queues, often waiting hours without securing a test appointment; further understands that some learners have incurred significant additional costs through extended periods of driving lessons and, in some cases, the expiry of theory test certificates before they have been able to obtain a practical driving test, requiring them to pay to sit the theory test again through no fault of their own; recognises the importance of access to driving as a means of supporting employment, apprenticeships, education, caring responsibilities and social mobility, particularly in rural and semi-rural communities where public transport options may be limited; believes that urgent measures are needed to reduce waiting times, improve access to driving tests and extend the validity of theory test certificates for learners affected by excessive delays; is concerned that recent reforms to the booking system have failed to deliver their intended objectives; and concludes that, should the UK Government prove unable to deliver a driving test system that meets Scotland's needs, serious consideration should be given to devolving responsibility for driver testing to the Scottish Parliament.
17:51
Keith Brown (Scottish National Party, Clackmannanshire and Dunblane)
I am grateful for the opportunity to bring this issue to Parliament because, although responsibility for driving tests rests with the United Kingdom Government, the consequences of the current system are being felt by people and communities across Scotland.
I am also grateful to all those members who signed the motion. I understand that, for the first time during my time in Parliament, in almost 20 years, a members’ business debate nearly did not happen because a member who had signed the motion withdrew their name from it. Members from two parties are required to sign a motion for debate, and a member from the Reform UK party withdrew her name this afternoon, which put the debate in jeopardy. I do not know whether that was a mistake, or if she had not previously read the motion and did not like it in some way, or was trying to spike the debate. Nonetheless, it was very unfortunate, and I see that there is not a single member of Reform in the chamber tonight.
I know from the correspondence that I have received that the problem of driving test delays is not theoretical—it is affecting people’s ability to work and to study and, in particular in rural communities, simply to get on with their lives. I first became aware of the scale of the problem through constituents contacting me about their experiences of trying to book a practical driving test. One constituent described logging on before 6 o’clock in the morning, only to find himself behind tens of thousands of other people in the queue. The reason for that is that people do not join a local queue for a test in Stirling or Scotland—they join behind everyone in the UK. Other constituents have described waiting for hours to access the booking system only to find no suitable tests available, or experiencing technical problems and losing their place altogether.
For people who work or attend college, or who have caring responsibilities, sitting online for hours in the hope that an appointment might appear is simply not realistic. There is also a significant financial consequence. Learner drivers are paying for additional lessons while they wait, and some are seeing their theory test certificates move closer and closer to the expiry date while they are unable to secure a practical test.
That is why I wrote to the UK Government earlier this month, setting out the experiences that my constituents had brought to me and asking what action was being taken. I have now received a response from the Minister for Roads, Justin Madders MP. I welcome the fact that the minister acknowledges the “frustration” being experienced by learner drivers and, importantly, that he recognises the particular impact on
“young people in rural areas, where access to work, education and social activities”
can
“depend on having a driving licence.”
However, the minister assures me that action is being taken. He says:
“Scotland is included in the Driving and Vehicle Standards Agency’s … programme to increase … test capacity”,
including through recruiting and training new examiners,
“encouraging qualified staff to return to examining roles, expanding training capacity and offering overtime incentives.”
He tells me that waiting times have now fallen “to under 21 weeks” and that
“Testing capacity is … at its strongest level in more than a year”,
with appointment availability at
“its highest level since … 2024.”
I really hope that that is the beginning of a genuine improvement, but there is a problem: it is simply not the experience that is being reported to me by people on the ground. People are contacting my office not to complain that they have been given a test in 24 weeks’ time rather than 20 weeks, but because they cannot get a test at all. We need to distinguish between two different things: waiting times and availability. An average waiting-time statistic is of little comfort to the learner who logs on to the booking system and cannot find an appointment anywhere reasonably accessible to them. If there is no test available to book, the theoretical waiting time is almost irrelevant.
I would like to know, therefore, what the national improvements that the UK minister describes actually mean for people in Clackmannanshire and Stirling and across Scotland. How many additional tests have been made available locally? How many additional examiners have been recruited or deployed here? How has capacity changed at individual test centres? Most important, when should learners in our communities expect to be able to log on and find tests that they can actually book?
The minister’s letter says that resources are being deployed
“to areas of highest demand”
and that
“workforce planning and demand forecasting are being strengthened”.
If that is happening, we need to see the evidence of it locally.
There is also the question of changes to the booking system. I absolutely understand why action had to be taken against the manipulation and resale of driving tests; nobody should be able to profiteer from a shortage of appointments. The UK Government says that
“reforms have significantly reduced … manipulation and reseller activity”
and that the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency has carried out
“more than 6,000 enforcement interventions since”
the changes were introduced.
That is welcome. However, we need to ask whether measures that were designed to stop abuse have inadvertently made the system less flexible for genuine learners and legitimate driving instructors. Tackling the resale of appointments should not make an already difficult system even harder for the people whom it is supposed to serve.
There is another group for whom the delays create a particularly acute problem. One constituent who contacted me had moved to Scotland from the United States to work with the Church of Scotland. As a US licence holder, they have a limited period, following arrival in this country, during which they can drive using that licence. However, before they can even book a practical test, they must first meet the residency requirements for taking the theory test. That significantly reduces the window that is available for them to complete the whole process. A practical test wait of many months—assuming that they can secure an appointment at all—means that what should be a straightforward process becomes extraordinarily difficult.
That illustrates why the matter goes well beyond inconvenience. For some people, having a driving licence is fundamental to their ability to work. For young people in rural communities, it can determine whether a particular job, apprenticeship or college course is realistically accessible.
There is an inequality here, too. Somebody with the financial means to continue paying for lessons for months while waiting for a test is in a very different position from a young person or family already struggling with the cost of living. I therefore also ask the UK Government to consider what can be done for people whose theory certificate has expired because they have simply been unable to access a practical test. People should not have to pay again and repeat a test that they have already passed because the state has been unable to provide the next stage of the process within a reasonable period.
Rachael Hamilton (Conservative, Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire)
On 25 August, I received a letter from one of my constituents, who was absolutely frantic about the process of booking a test for her daughter, who is currently looking for work. I believe that one in six people are locked out of work in Scotland because of the driving test situation. She was getting up at 6 am in the morning for six weeks; because the DVSA has changed the criteria to stop the bots, it means that only the person who is taking the test can apply for it.
I appeal to members that we should work together on the issue. We should collectively, cross-party, take the concerns that have been presented by our constituents to the DVSA as one on behalf of Scotland because, as a collective, I think that we could do a lot more.
Keith Brown (Scottish National Party, Clackmannanshire and Dunblane)
I thank the member for her intervention—of course, she will have even greater experience of the effect in rural areas, and I accept that. I also accept that she probably would not want to support every part of my motion, but I will undertake to work together with members where there is common ground, and I think that there is a lot of common ground on the matter.
The UK minister, in response to my query, said that he was
“closely monitoring … the measures”
that he has introduced and that if waiting times cannot be reduced
“to an acceptable level … further action”
will be considered. I welcome that commitment, but it raises two obvious questions. What does the United Kingdom Government regard as an acceptable waiting time, and by what date does it expect to achieve such a waiting time? Without a target or a timetable, it is difficult for Parliament or learners to judge whether the measures are succeeding.
I also raised the question of devolution, which seems entirely reasonable to me. The minister confirmed that there are currently no plans to devolve responsibility for driving tests to either Scotland or Wales, although he acknowledges that that could be done through changes to legislation. If the UK Government intends to retain responsibility for the service, it must also accept responsibility for ensuring that the service works. However, if the present system consistently fails to provide an adequate service in Scotland, it is perfectly reasonable to ask whether decisions about capacity, resources and delivery would be better taken here.
The Prime Minister, Andy Burnham, has spoken about a new approach of “devolution by default”: a presumption that powers should sit closer to the people and communities that they affect, rather than being held unnecessarily at Westminster. When it comes to driving tests, the current system is quite literally defaulting. If the UK Government cannot provide a system that allows people in Scotland to access a basic public service within a reasonable time, the case for retaining that power at Westminster becomes very difficult to sustain. If devolution by default is genuinely to mean something, this would be a very good place to start.
It is time to put Scotland in the driving seat and devolve those powers to the Scottish Parliament. The reality is that we know the particular challenges facing our rural communities. We know the needs of learners across Scotland, and we should have the ability to design a system that responds to them. With regard to the example that I gave, it seems fairly straightforward to say that the UK solution of everybody in the UK having to bid into the waiting list of 20,000 places at 6 o’clock in the morning is not working. It is time to give those powers to the Scottish Parliament.
I welcome the assurances that I have now received from the UK Government, and I genuinely hope that the measures that have been outlined by the minister work. However, assurances from Whitehall are not the same thing as appointments appearing on a booking screen.
The test of success is simple. Can a learner driver in Clackmannanshire, Dunblane, Causewayhead and Bridge of Allan, in my constituency, or in Stirling or across Scotland find within a reasonable time an appointment reasonably close to where they live and sit their test without months of unnecessary delay and additional expense?
A colleague who is no longer in Parliament gave me an example of the sort of thing that arises as a result of the current situation. He told me that his friend moved down to Preston for a week, having got an appointment down there, played some golf, passed his test and came back up. People should not be asked to do that.
At the moment, too many people are telling me that the answer to whether they can get a test close to them within a reasonable time is no. Every member in the chamber will have constituents in the same position, and it is a grim experience for them.
I will continue to press the UK Government and the DVSA for action. Following this debate, I intend to go back to the minister to seek the local information that was missing from his first response. I want to know what additional capacity is being delivered, what improvement learners here should expect to see and when they should expect to see it. Although the UK Government tells us that the system is improving, my constituents tell me that they still cannot get a test. Ultimately, it is the test and the ability to procure it that matter.
18:03
David Linden (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Baillieston and Shettleston)
It is a pleasure to follow Keith Brown. I congratulate him on securing the debate, and I thank him for the opportunity to shine a light on an issue that, as he rightly says, affects thousands of our constituents. I think that none of the 129 members in the chamber will be unaffected by the issue.
At the outset, I declare an interest, in that Baillieston test centre is in my constituency. That is the test centre where, 19 years ago, I passed my test. I pay tribute to the staff there for the work that they do to provide that service.
The reason why I chose to speak in Mr Brown’s debate is that, in June, I received an email from Lynn, who lives in the Broomhouse area of my constituency. She was talking about the fact that her daughter had to wait months to resit a test. She spoke about the race against time, particularly in respect of the theory test, which runs out after a certain point.
Mr Brown put the issue in context by saying that it impacts many young people. There are many spin-offs from that with regard to the impact on the economy. Earlier today, the minister who will respond to this debate answered a question from a member on the issue of the night-time economy. If a young person wants to take a job in, for example, the Uplawmoor hotel, they might have to do a late shift, and the reality is that it will be important for them to have a car in order to do that. However, at the moment, many young people are being prohibited from the ability to take up jobs at places such as the Uplawmoor hotel—which the minister spends a fair bit of time in from time to time—because of the delay in getting access to tests.
There is also a financial barrier, because, in the period when someone is waiting to take a test—whether that is their initial test or a resit test—their driving instructor will almost certainly say to them that they should not be away from the gears and the pedals for too long, so they should do more lessons. Lessons are incredibly expensive, and we are in the middle of a cost of living crisis, so there is a financial element to the issue as well. There are lots of ways in which young people are essentially being held back because of the delay and dithering at the DVSA, which Mr Brown is absolutely right to put on the record.
Mr Brown is right to call for ministers in Whitehall to take action to ensure that young people, and indeed people of all ages, are able to take their tests, and I support him in that. Of course, if the British Government is unable to get its act together—if, say, the Prime Minister is too busy playing the Stone Roses—it might be time for it to consider devolving responsibility for driving tests to this institution.
My fundamental message to the British Government tonight is to start moving up the gears, get motoring and ensure that young people like Lynn’s daughter can get on to the road and get those opportunities.
18:05
Finlay Carson (Conservative, Galloway and West Dumfries)
I congratulate Keith Brown on gaining cross-party support for this motion, losing it, then gaining it once again.
I welcome the opportunity to contribute to this debate and recognise the genuine concerns that have been raised by my constituents regarding access to practical driving tests. Although the motion relates to the experiences of learners and families in Clackmannanshire and Dunblane, the issues that it highlights are being felt right across Scotland, including in my Galloway and West Dumfries constituency.
For many people, passing a driving test is much more than a personal milestone. The ability to drive can be the difference between accessing education opportunities, securing employment, taking up an apprenticeship or fulfilling caring responsibilities. In a rural, and semi-rural, community where public transport options are often limited, obtaining a driving licence is often a necessity rather than a convenience.
Learners frequently report joining online booking queues early in the morning, only to find thousands of others ahead of them, while others spend hours attempting to secure an appointment with little success. Even when learners have completed their training and are ready to sit their tests, they often face months of uncertainty before suitable slots become available.
As we have already heard, there is a real financial burden, given that learners often continue to pay for lessons to maintain their driving standards while they wait for a test date. Indeed, many face the prospect of theory test certificates expiring before they can access a practical test—that happened twice to my daughter. They are required to incur further expense, through no fault of their own. Of course, that is happening at a time when families are already facing financial pressures, and it is understandably a source of great frustration.
Therefore, the concerns outlined in the motion are entirely legitimate. I agree that urgent action is required to reduce waiting times, improve access to practical driving tests and ensure that learners are not unfairly penalised by a system that is struggling to meet demand. Learners deserve to get a booking system that works effectively and transparently, and they deserve to have the confidence of being able to secure a test within a reasonable timescale.
However, although I share many of the concerns expressed in the motion, I am sure that it will come as no surprise to the member that I am less persuaded by its conclusion that responsibility for driving tests should be devolved to the Scottish Parliament if improvements are not delivered. The difficulties that learners face today are operational problems that require practical solutions; the priority must be to increase test capacity, recruit and retain examiners, improve access to appointments and ensure that the booking system functions fairly and efficiently. Simply transferring responsibility from one Parliament to another would not, in itself, create more examiners, open more test slots or shorten waiting times for learners in Dumfries, Stranraer, Newton Stewart, Castle Douglas or anywhere else in Scotland.
Constituents contacting us about this issue—
Keith Brown (Scottish National Party, Clackmannanshire and Dunblane)
Will the member give way?
Finlay Carson (Conservative, Galloway and West Dumfries)
I will.
Keith Brown (Scottish National Party, Clackmannanshire and Dunblane)
I appreciate the member’s point, which is not unexpected. I should explain that I am genuinely not doing this from a doctrinaire point of view. During the independence referendum, someone in my party thought—though not everyone agreed—that it would be perfectly legitimate for Scotland to sign a memorandum of understanding with the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency on providing some of its services. However, if this is about an agency not providing services, that is a different question.
Moreover, this is not necessarily about having more examiners; even changing the app to something that worked and which was localised would have a beneficial impact. I just wanted to reassure the member that I am not doing this simply for doctrinaire reasons.
Finlay Carson (Conservative, Galloway and West Dumfries)
I take on board what the member suggests, but transferring it does not necessarily suggest that a Parliament in Scotland would do it any better. It could be argued that the devolution of health board responsibilities closer to home to the health boards might shorten waiting times and give more responsibility to those who access those health services locally.
Rachael Hamilton (Conservative, Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire)
I think that I can demonstrate that the problem is not specific to Scotland, compared with the rest of the United Kingdom. A freedom of information response to me suggested that the average waiting time in Berwick-upon-Tweed was 24 weeks whereas in Kelso it was 18 weeks. I have loads of such figures. It is as bad over the border as it is in Scotland, and we need to be looking at it as a UK-wide system. I add that as context to Finlay Carson’s argument.
Finlay Carson (Conservative, Galloway and West Dumfries)
For those reasons, I believe that it does not matter which Parliament is involved. The focus should be on securing improvements to the service. The DVSA and the UK Government should be held accountable and should be delivering meaningful reductions in waiting times and restoring confidence in the system. The experiences that are highlighted in the motion deserve action and attention, and the debate will no doubt have achieved that. However, although constitutional debates may attract headlines, the real measure of success will be whether learners in Clackmannanshire, Dunblane, Galloway, Dumfries and across Scotland can access a practical driving test when they need one. That is what learners are asking for, and that is absolutely where our focus should be.
18:11
Dawn Black (Scottish National Party, Angus North and Mearns)
I refer members to my entry in the register of members’ interests: I am a DVSA-approved driving instructor, so I will come at this from a slightly different angle.
The significant delays that are still faced by learner drivers for their driving tests create stress, uncertainty and additional costs for lessons, and they are not great for instructors or driving schools either. The impact on learning has already been rehearsed. Obtaining a driving licence is not a matter of convenience or a rite of passage for learners in rural constituencies such as mine; it is an absolute necessity to enabling access to education, work, health appointments and seeing family and friends, as their reality is that no feasible public transport is available to them. Indeed, a driving licence also opens doors to jobs and can be a prerequisite to being hired.
Disappointingly, it is often the very communities that rely most heavily on cars that experience the longest waiting times for driving tests. Analysis by the RAC Foundation found that the Forfar test centre in my constituency has the longest median waiting time in the whole of the UK, at 29.7 weeks. That is almost seven months, which is the length of time that it generally takes to teach someone how to drive. It is not acceptable.
From my experience as a driving instructor, I know some of the contributing factors to the backlog: for example, pupils not showing up for tests; pupils presenting for tests before they are ready, so that they are unlikely to pass and will need to keep booking subsequent tests; and pupils turning up to the test centre without their provisional licence or in a car that has not passed an MOT or is not roadworthy. It is even the case that pupils from anywhere in the UK are able to book tests in the north-east of Scotland—or anywhere else in the UK—so are travelling and taking local test slots away from local pupils. So much is wasted.
To its credit, the DVSA has managed to stop the illegal selling of tests at inflated prices and the proliferation of cancellation apps, by allowing only the students to book their own tests directly on the UK Government website. However, in turn, that is hampering driving instructors’ ability to manage their driving schools efficiently and effectively. The issue affects not just the learners but the instructors.
Keith Brown (Scottish National Party, Clackmannanshire and Dunblane)
My brother has been a driving instructor for more than 30 years. I had a long discussion with him about the issue, and I acknowledge the points that Dawn Black makes. Often, the driving instructor is the one who knows when a pupil should be re-presented for a test, and that has now been taken away—admittedly, that is part of a well-intentioned remedial measure, but it is not working.
Dawn Black (Scottish National Party, Angus North and Mearns)
I totally agree with that point, and Keith Brown’s brother is absolutely correct.
However, the key factor behind the backlog is capacity—the shortage of full-time driving examiners. I have witnessed at test centres, and the National Audit Office’s investigation into driving test waiting times has confirmed, that examiner recruitment and retention is a major barrier to reducing the backlog. Examiners are classed as civil servants. In 2024-25, the examiner attrition rate stood at 14 per cent, which is double the 7.1 per cent average within the civil service. It is clear that, to attract and retain more applicants, examiners need to be paid more for the vital job that they do. They currently get just £26,000 to £30,000 a year for a high-stress job, in which they go out on the road in a car with a novice driver they do not know seven times a day, five days a week.
The DVSA has run many recruitment campaigns. I have witnessed them, and I even considered becoming a driving examiner myself at one point. A longer-term approach to workforce planning is necessary, alongside more action to improve morale. Although the agency has taken steps to increase the number of examiners—through recruitment, bringing examiners out of retirement and deployment of management staff back into the examiner role—it appears to have forgotten about Scotland in some of its actions. In 2025, the DVSA announced an agreement with the Ministry of Defence, under which 35 defence driving examiners could conduct driving tests one day a week for a year. However, that additional support was provided only in England. It is therefore no coincidence that seven of the 10 test centres in the UK with the longest driving test waiting times are in Scotland.
The DVSA has failed to manage driving examiner recruitment in Scotland effectively, and the scale of the challenge now requires a more ambitious and responsive approach. It is no longer sufficient for the DVSA to blame the pandemic for the delays—which it did for a long time. Learners have been waiting for far too long, and Scottish test centres cannot continue to be treated as an afterthought. The Labour Government—I was about to say that there are no Labour members here in the chamber, but I see that there is one—has shown over the past two years that it is unable to get a grip of this problem.
Learner drivers deserve much better than the current UK centralised system, and it is time that they were given the service that they need and deserve. I therefore urge the Scottish Government to continue to engage with the UK Government and the DVSA to improve the situation in Scotland. I ask the minister to consider the role that Scottish driving instructor training and professional development could play within Transport Scotland’s road safety framework to 2030.
For the sake of learner drivers across Scotland, we must ensure that they are not held back from getting a driving licence by a UK system that is failing.
18:17
Tom Arthur (Scottish National Party, Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley)
I thank Keith Brown for bringing the motion to the Parliament. It is clear from members’ speeches that this issue is having a significant impact on constituents the length and breadth of the country. There will of course be a differential to that impact, based on rurality and the availability of public transport. Although constituents across Scotland will be experiencing the impact of the challenges of securing a driving test, that impact will not be felt equally. We have to bear that in mind.
I am grateful to those members who have taken the time to illustrate their constituents’ cases. I note the case raised by Mr Linden and the impact that it is having. He referred to my constituency, which I consider as a county constituency with a significant rural and perirural element. I recognise the utter importance of having a car there, and not just the opportunities but the necessities of life that are afforded and made possible by access to a car. In particular, that has an impact on young people as they leave school and progress to further education, training, apprenticeships or employment. We have significant challenges around youth employment and economic inactivity in this country. It is important that, when we can make interventions to address such problems—some of which are complex and systemic, although some of them are more straightforward, such as the operation of public agencies in the provision of driving tests—we take the opportunity to do so.
I note the points that Dawn Black makes, bringing her professional background and expertise to bear, and I wish to assure her that the reflections that she has offered will form part of the Scottish Government’s thinking—while recognising that this is a reserved area.
I appreciate the points that have been articulated by Mr Brown and by Finlay Carson. Although we are discussing what are predominantly operational matters, there are significant questions to be posed to the UK Government regarding its responsibilities and oversight. I have spoken about the differential impact that constituents will face, depending on the provision of public transport and rurality, and the points that Ms Black raises and the statistics that she has put on the record highlight the differential impact that has been felt across the UK. Although this is a reserved area, I assure members that the Government is engaging on the matter and will seek to continue engaging with the UK Government and pushing it to take action.
I note Keith Brown’s points regarding his engagement with the UK minister, Justin Madders, and assure the member that the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Tourism and Transport, Stephen Flynn, will write to his counterpart in the UK Government to highlight the issues that have been raised in this debate and will also take the opportunity to raise those matters at the next interministerial forum.
Keith Brown (Scottish National Party, Clackmannanshire and Dunblane)
I thank the minister for the action he is proposing to take on behalf of the Scottish Government.
I was unaware of the use of the armed forces, which Dawn Black spoke about, and that sets me off on a different path and gets me very animated. Over the years, as a minister and elsewhere, I have seen that, whenever there was a suggestion of the armed forces being used to help in a situation in Scotland, they were being offered as if that were a favour from someone else, whereas it is actually a substantial opportunity for people to support the armed forces in Scotland. To use the armed forces in that way, as if they were an adjunct only for England and Wales, is destructive of support for the armed forces. I feel strongly about that issue, so, if the minister could make that part of his representations. Given what Dawn Black said, that would be welcome.
Tom Arthur (Scottish National Party, Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley)
I will certainly be happy to ask for that to be included in any representations made, particularly given the moral authority with which Mr Brown speaks on such matters.
I can inform members that officials met with the DVSA at the end of August and that its officials confirmed that they are working to increase testing capacity and had delivered almost 200,000 practical tests across the UK in July 2026 alone. I understand that more than 120,000 additional tests have been conducted since April, when compared to the same period last year. However, as we have heard, waiting times in Scotland remain too high, averaging 20.9 weeks. I am informed that the DVSA recognises that Scotland has a gap in testing capacity, as has been highlighted in members’ contributions. As part of its response—this was articulated in the correspondence that Mr Brown received—the DVSA is recruiting additional examiners, increasing training and the use of overtime, and targeting resources where demand is greatest.
As has been touched upon, work has also been undertaken to tackle misuse of the booking system by third-party operators. However, I recognise that some unintended consequences may have arisen from that, as has been articulated during this debate. Officials continue to make representations and the cabinet secretary will also raise the issue as part of his engagement.
It is important that there is clear communication and that information is provided, as that will reduce uncertainty and ensure that individuals understand the timescales and support available. I have been informed that the DVSA is committed to ongoing monitoring of progress. We welcome the publication of additional driving test performance data on the agency’s website, because it goes towards providing greater transparency about local and national waiting times and the availability of appointments.
I note Mr Brown’s point about not conflating availability with waiting times. Individual constituents have reported having to join a waiting list very early in the day and, while I think that is something we are all prepared to do if we hope to get a ticket to see our favourite artist headlining a stadium gig, I do not think that is something we expect when accessing a fundamental public service. We want to engage constructively with the UK Government on that.
Carol Mochan (Labour, South Scotland)
I appreciate this worthwhile debate, and members have made valid points. It is important to work across parties. If there is anything that the minister or members think that we can do to raise the issue across parties, I would certainly be happy to do that on behalf of the Labour group.
Tom Arthur (Scottish National Party, Renfrewshire West and Levern Valley)
I thank the member for her contribution. Although it is for Government to form a position and to respond, based on members’ contributions—I have stated how we will do that—I note that Parliament is also at liberty to explore the issues through its existing structures, including cross-party groups and committees. Given the impacts on devolved competence that the issue is leading to, which members across the chamber have articulated clearly, members might wish to give consideration to it through the various fora that are available.
Along with the cabinet secretary, I am committed to engaging constructively and to keeping members up to date. As I said, following tonight’s debate, Stephen Flynn will write to his counterpart to seek an opportunity to discuss these matters at a future interministerial group meeting.
Again, I thank Keith Brown for securing this important debate and all members for their contributions to it.
Meeting closed at 18:25.