Scottish Parliament, 4 June 2025

294 contributions from 55 members. The official report.

Point of Order

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Good afternoon. The first item of business is—

Douglas Ross (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I am grateful that you have agreed to meet me this evening. However, yesterday, you repeated the claim in the chamber that you had not been aware of any invitations to meet me. The chief executive of the Parliament has now confirmed that he had a discussion with you last Thursday about my first request to meet you, so, on reflection, do you agree with the chief executive that you had that discussion last Thursday, and are there opportunities for you to correct the record?

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Thank you, Mr Ross. That is not a point of order, but I will respond to it. I have, indeed, offered to meet you later today, and I look forward to that. I also intend to meet Mr Findlay.

Last Thursday, I told the chief executive that I wished to meet Mr Findlay as a matter of priority, given the nature of events subsequent to my decision to ask you to leave the chamber. Requests to meet Mr Findlay were made on Thursday and again on Tuesday. Those were declined.

Last Thursday, the chief executive told me that he had declined your request to meet him and, if possible, me, as he was aware that I was seeking to meet Mr Findlay. I therefore considered that matter closed. Your subsequent request to the chief executive’s office on Tuesday morning to meet me was dealt with by my office, as I was unavailable, due to long-standing parliamentary commitments, and I was not aware of that request.

Douglas Ross (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

Further to that point of order, Presiding Officer. What you have just said now makes it clear that you were aware of requests back to last Thursday. In the chamber yesterday, you specifically said that you were not aware of any requests. It is important to you and to this entire Parliament that we give accurate statements to this chamber, so, on reflection, will you now correct the record from yesterday?

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

I do not regard an email to the chief executive, another office, which was mentioned to me in passing and in which I am mentioned in passing, as a specific request to meet me. My office has contacted your office today, Mr Ross, and I very much look forward to meeting you this evening.

We will now move on to portfolio question time.

Portfolio Question Time

Emma Roddick (Scottish National Party, Highlands and Islands)

To ask the Scottish Government what discussions it has had with the United Kingdom Government regarding improving the process for bringing forward orders under section 104 of the Scotland Act 1998. (S6O-04736)

Angus Robertson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Central)

The Scottish Government and the Scotland Office meet regularly to discuss the Scotland Act 1998 order programme, including ways to improve the process. Once the need for a Scotland Act 1998 order has been identified, the Scottish Government will always seek to ensure that a way forward is agreed between the two Governments as early as possible. However, timetables for all Scotland Act 1998 orders are influenced by a wide range of factors, including subject matter, complexity of drafting and securing UK parliamentary time.

Emma Roddick (Scottish National Party, Highlands and Islands)

I thank the cabinet secretary for that response, but I have constituents who have been waiting a very long time for a change in the law in Scotland to allow mixed-sex marriages to be converted to civil partnerships. I have engaged with multiple Scottish and UK ministers on the issue—I have even been one of those ministers. Although everyone agrees on the change, and it has already been made in England, the process of getting an order seems to be unreasonably and unnecessarily long. Can the cabinet secretary speak to why that is the case? What can be done to expedite law making for Scotland?

Angus Robertson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Central)

I agree that it has taken a lengthy time to progress with the UK Government a section 104 order on converting marriages to civil partnerships. There is a need for a section 104 order—for example, provisions need to be made so that a marriage that would be converted to a civil partnership in Scotland would be recognised as such in the rest of the United Kingdom.

We will make progress. Scottish Government officials will write to the Scotland Office in the next week or so with full policy details of what needs to be included in the order. Officials will agree a timetable, and Scottish Government officials will keep people who are interested in the order fully informed of developments. I hope that the Scotland Office will work to ensure that all arms of the UK Government are fully engaged.

More generally, the Minister for Parliamentary Business will continue to work with the Scotland Office and the UK Government to ensure that Scotland Act 1998 orders are progressed smoothly and quickly, which is in the interests of the people of Scotland, whatever their views on the current devolution settlement.

Richard Leonard (Labour, Central Scotland)

To ask the Scottish Government what recent discussions it has had regarding its support for humanitarian assistance, in light of reports of the increasing number of deaths in Gaza. (S6O-04737)

Angus Robertson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Central)

Since the outset of the current conflict, the Scottish Government has contributed £1.3 million in humanitarian funding for Gaza and the wider region. That has included £750,000 through the United Nations Relief and Works Agency in December 2023 and £550,000 for the middle east through the Disasters Emergency Committee, Mercy Corps and the Scottish Catholic International Aid Fund, which includes the further £300,000 that was announced at the end of April.

We receive regular briefings from United Nations agencies, the DEC and our humanitarian emergency fund panel members. They warn of the catastrophic situation that is being caused by the inhumane restrictions on aid imposed by Israel. The World Food Programme has enough food on the border to feed the entire population for two months, all while people in Gaza face starvation. The situation is utterly shameful and avoidable, and the international community, including the United Kingdom, must act now.

Richard Leonard (Labour, Central Scotland)

I thank the cabinet secretary for that response. Last August, the cabinet secretary met Israeli Government representatives. Last October, Israel banned the UN aid organisation UNRWA. Last November, an arrest warrant was issued for Benjamin Netanyahu for the war crime of starvation as a method of warfare. Netanyahu and Donald Trump have handed over food aid in Gaza to private contractors, whilst blocking humanitarian aid from any other source. In just the last few days, scores of Palestinians have been killed and injured by Israeli forces whilst waiting for food from the US-owned Gaza Humanitarian Foundation.

So, will the cabinet secretary today condemn the privatisation and militarisation of humanitarian aid in Gaza, back the reinstatement of UN agencies to provide all aid, support an immediate ceasefire, pledge that his Government will enforce the International Criminal Court arrest warrant and support an immediate ban on arms sales to Israel?

Angus Robertson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Central)

I agree with Richard Leonard on all the points that he has made, and I make the point to him that the First Minister raised those concerns in his recent meeting with the Prime Minister. The international community can do more, but what is happening on the ground in Gaza at present is absolutely horrific and avoidable.

The United Nations and its agencies, including UNRWA, are those that should be taking forward the humanitarian supply of the population in Gaza. The privatisation and militarisation that Richard Leonard has raised in the chamber should not go on, and a ceasefire should be immediately respected by the Israelis.

Stephen Kerr (Conservative, Central Scotland)

Perhaps I can swing our attention back to areas that the cabinet secretary is responsible for. We have learned in evidence sessions at the Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee that a significant proportion of Scottish Government aid to Gaza is being distributed on the ground in the form of cash or vouchers. In light of the grave concerns about Hamas control in the region, can the cabinet secretary provide us with any assurance and tell us what checks are in place to guarantee that Scottish taxpayers’ money, which is intended to help people who are in great distress, is not being diverted to fund a proscribed terrorist organisation that is responsible for terrible, awful atrocities?

Angus Robertson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Central)

I would have thought that Mr Kerr would be aware that no aid is being distributed on the ground in Gaza at the moment, apart from by the privatised and militarised organisation that Mr Leonard brought up. I would thought that he would be aware of that, as it has been leading the news and is leading it today.

Stephen Kerr (Conservative, Central Scotland)

Will you answer the question?

Angus Robertson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Central)

I have answered the question: no aid is being distributed on the ground. If the member has any further specific questions, I would be happy to answer them, but I would have thought that Mr Kerr would be better informed about the situation on the ground at the present time.

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Question 3 has not been lodged.

David Torrance (Scottish National Party, Kirkcaldy)

To ask the Scottish Government when the constitution secretary last met, and will next meet, with United Kingdom Government ministers. (S6O-04739)

Angus Robertson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Central)

On 30 May, I met the Rt Hon Nick Thomas-Symonds, the Minister for the Cabinet Office, Paymaster General and Minister for the Constitution and European Union Relations. That meeting followed our previous meeting on 20 May, at which we discussed announcements arising from the European Union-United Kingdom summit. The announcements included a common understanding detailing policy measures that both sides have committed to as we take the new strategic partnership forward; a joint statement that sets out UK-EU co-operation across global issues and commits to annual leader-level summits; and a security and defence partnership that will formalise UK-EU foreign policy co-operation, allowing for greater collaboration on defence industry work. Currently, I have no planned meetings with UK ministers.

David Torrance (Scottish National Party, Kirkcaldy)

Labour said many things before it came to power, but, as we know, its performance in government has been found wanting. It spoke about the reset and better co-operation between the UK Government and the Scottish Government, but it is content to keep the Tories’ United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020; it refused to share draft texts with devolved Governments before its agreement with the EU; and it has sold out our fishing communities. Is it not the case that the reset is just another broken electoral pledge that has been made to the people of Scotland?

Angus Robertson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Central)

The Scottish Government continues to seek a principled and pragmatic approach to engagement with the UK Government. Although the current relationship with the UK Government is more productive and constructive than it was with its predecessor, areas of significant concern remain, most notably in relation to information sharing and substantive discussion around significant developments such as the US trade deal and the EU reset deal, which were both announced without sufficient engagement with the devolved Governments.

There are also a number of areas in which the UK Government is falling short on its commitment to reset intergovernmental relations by failing to take account of Scotland’s needs in its work on areas such as eradicating child poverty, migration and the internal market act review. It is imperative that information sharing and engagement with the Scottish Government are both sustained and meaningful to maximise the potential for positive outcomes for the people of Scotland.

Murdo Fraser (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

When the cabinet secretary next meets UK ministers, will he raise with them the opportunity to develop another tranche of city deal projects, as recommended in a recent report by the Economy and Fair Work Committee? I do not know whether the cabinet secretary has had the opportunity to visit the Perth museum, to which I paid another visit a couple of weeks ago. It is a tremendous project, with visitor numbers now substantially exceeding projections. It is funded through the Tay cities deal, and there will be opportunity to have many more such cultural projects in future if a new tranche can be provided.

Angus Robertson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Central)

I think that I am right in saying that the Perth museum has been shortlisted for an award, which I am sure all of us would welcome, and I look forward to taking up the member’s invitation and going.

I also think that I am right in saying that the Deputy First Minister leads on the city deal programme, but I am happy to share Murdo Fraser’s encouragement with her. If city deal projects are on the agenda for the next meetings that I have with relevant UK Government ministers, I will be happy to report back to Murdo Fraser at future portfolio question times.

Elena Whitham (Scottish National Party, Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley)

To ask the Scottish Government what its assessment is of the impact of the MalDent Project on oral health policy in Malawi. (S6O-04740)

Angus Robertson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Central)

The MalDent Project has transformed oral health in Malawi. The country faces a severe oral health crisis, in that it has only nine public dentists to serve a population of 22 million people. Supported by Scottish Government investment, MalDent has spearheaded the creation of Malawi’s first dental degree programme. We celebrate the recent graduation of the country’s first home-trained dentists, which is a direct outcome of MalDent’s work, and a further 137 students are currently studying dentistry. MalDent has also developed Malawi’s first national oral health policy, establishing a crucial blueprint for effective oral health interventions, with a key focus on preventing oral disease, especially in children.

Elena Whitham (Scottish National Party, Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley)

What plans does the Scottish Government have to build on that groundbreaking international development work? Does the cabinet secretary share my view that Scotland must take every opportunity to show the world that it is a good global citizen and a nation that wants to play its part in the global community, and that the international engagement of these islands does not begin and end at the behest of Westminster?

Angus Robertson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Central)

I assure Elena Whitham that we remain steadfast in our commitment to supporting our partner countries and others through international development and climate justice funding, while responding to global humanitarian crises as a responsible, compassionate and good global citizen.

We are building on the MalDent Project’s success to deepen our institutional ties with Malawi in higher education. That commitment stems from a long-standing partnership between the universities involved that has been in place since 2005, and we are dedicated to fostering long-term institutional collaborations of that sort. That includes strengthening governance and infrastructure at the university in Malawi, supporting the dental surgery programme and investing in faculty development.

Paul O'Kane (Labour, West Scotland)

On Saturday we received the sad news of the passing of Councillor Betty Cunningham, a former provost of East Renfrewshire, who was known to many members on all sides of the chamber and who was described as a “force of nature”. Among her many achievements, Betty was responsible for setting up an international trust after visiting Kaponda in Malawi in 2007. The trust has supported the provision of education, healthcare, and agricultural skills and opportunities, as well as taking hundreds of young people on cultural exchanges to Malawi.

One of the key areas of interest there is oral health. Can the cabinet secretary say how the Government is partnering with charitable organisations such as the Betty Cunningham International Trust on projects such as MalDent? Does he agree that continuing such partnerships is a fitting legacy for people such as Betty, who had such a love for and connection with Malawi?

Angus Robertson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Central)

I commend Paul O’Kane for asking that question and putting on record his condolences, which I share, to the family, friends and colleagues of Betty Cunningham, the former provost of East Renfrewshire. Her long commitment to supporting projects in Malawi was widely recognised, including through her receipt of an OBE for services to East Renfrewshire and to Malawi. I pay particular tribute to the Betty Cunningham International Trust, which she established and which built a health clinic and nursery schools. There is much to commend in her lifetime of work and commitment to the people of both East Renfrewshire and Malawi.

Douglas Ross (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

To ask the Scottish Government whether it will propose the scheduling of time for a parliamentary debate or statement on the works at Union bridge on the A96 in Keith, in light of reports that on-going delays have resulted in the trunk road being reduced to one lane with traffic lights for almost a year. (S6O-04741)

Jim Fairlie (Scottish National Party, Perthshire South and Kinross-shire)

At this time there are no plans to propose a Scottish Government debate or statement on the issue. As the member knows, any proposals for Government business in the Parliament are subject to consideration by the Parliamentary Bureau and then approval by the Parliament.

Chamber time is limited in the coming weeks, but there are many other routes to scrutinise the activities of the Government. Those include asking general questions, transport portfolio questions and topical questions.

Douglas Ross (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

The minister will be aware that I have tried to ask supplementaries to transport questions, but there have been no opportunities to do so, for understandable reasons. I attempted to ask a question on the matter at First Minister’s question time about a month ago, but it was not selected because of the demands that the Presiding Officer has to deal with.

The issue has now been on-going in Keith for almost a year. I have asked twice for the Cabinet Secretary for Transport to come to Keith and hear from residents and businesses there about the impact that the road works are having. Will the minister, to whom I presented a petition on the issue back in December 2024, make the strongest possible representation to Fiona Hyslop that she should come to Keith to hear about what has been happening in the town as a result of those long on-going works?

Jim Fairlie (Scottish National Party, Perthshire South and Kinross-shire)

I am slightly confused, because I thought that the question was about the workings of parliamentary business. However, if Mr Ross wishes me to convey his message to Fiona Hyslop, I will endeavour to do so.

Sharon Dowey (Conservative, South Scotland)

To ask the Scottish Government whether it has any further plans to widen its review into Creative Scotland. (S6O-04742)

Angus Robertson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Central)

I agreed the remit of the review of Creative Scotland with the independent chair, Angela Leitch, and it was published on the Scottish Government’s website last month. The review will consider Creative Scotland’s purpose, functions, structure and partnerships—and, as well as its governance and leadership, its performance, finances and distribution of funds. The review is independent of the Scottish Government, and it will deliver its recommendations in November.

Sharon Dowey (Conservative, South Scotland)

Two weeks ago, the Scottish Government announced that the review of Creative Scotland would be widened to include the quango’s leadership, performance and funding schemes. Can the cabinet secretary confirm whether the review will take account of funding decisions made in the current financial year? Does he accept that taking account of the review’s outcomes will be essential if we are to prevent another fiasco such as that involving the project Rein?

Angus Robertson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Central)

In my initial answer to Sharon Dowey I confirmed that the review is independent of the Scottish Government, so it is not for me, beyond the remit that I have agreed with its chair, to point her to issues that should or should not be looked into. I am sure that the chair will look closely at the record of the question that the member has raised, and I have no doubt that the chair will give evidence to the Scottish Parliament at some stage, when such questions can be asked.

I point out to Sharon Dowey that I have taken every opportunity to encourage members, and everyone in the wider cultural and arts communities, to take part in the independent review, and I encourage her to raise her concerns directly through the review.

Emma Roddick (Scottish National Party, Highlands and Islands)

A vital part of safeguarding cultural wealth and heritage is ensuring that we can effectively promote Scotland’s creative talent and showcase it to the rest of the world. Can the cabinet secretary say more about how the Scottish Government is supporting Creative Scotland and the culture sector through increased funding in the 2025-26 Scottish budget?

Angus Robertson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Central)

We have demonstrated our commitment to the culture sector by making a funding increase of more than £34 million in 2025-26. That takes us to a level of culture funding of more than £50 million more than there was in 2023-24 and includes an additional £4 million for festivals. The funding will support our commitments to double the festivals expo fund and to expand its reach across Scotland, beyond festivals in Edinburgh and Glasgow.

We continue to help artists to access new markets, by building business relationships and promoting Scotland’s culture sector internationally through the Scottish Government’s network of international offices. As part of our international culture strategy, we have committed to carrying out a feasibility study on the establishment of a support service for cultural export and exchange. That will help to inform how we can best support international activity in the sector to overcome challenges to it.

Foysol Choudhury (Labour, Lothian)

Last month, it was announced that the scope of the review of Creative Scotland would be widened. As the cabinet secretary will be aware, the review was originally announced in September last year. It has taken the Scottish Government more than eight months to widen its remit. When did the cabinet secretary realise that the remit needed to be expanded? By how much is that expansion likely to increase the cost of the review?

Angus Robertson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Central)

I do not expect any increase in costs for the review. I thought that it was important that the independent reviewer should be able to look at all relevant areas; if Mr Choudhury believes that there are particular issues that need to be raised with her as part of that review process, I encourage him—and colleagues, as I have already said to Sharon Dowey—to do that. It is in all our interests, and those of everyone in the cultural sector, that the review is as best informed as it can be, so if he has any needs, interests, concerns or expectations that he wants to raise directly, I encourage him to do so.

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

To ask the Scottish Government what assessment it has made of the economic importance of festivals to local communities. (S6O-04743)

Angus Robertson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Central)

The Scottish Government recognises that festivals and events are vital to local economies, especially when they are community-led ones with strong social and cultural value. The economic importance of festivals in every part of Scotland is best described by the festivals themselves: Orkney’s St Magnus international festival adds £1.3 million to the local economy each year, and Wigtown book festival generates an estimated £4.3 million annually.

The importance that the Government places on festivals is underlined by the number of festivals that receive support from Creative Scotland’s multiyear funding programme and by our commitment to work with festivals across the country through a strategic partnership.

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

I thank the cabinet secretary for that response and for the acknowledgement of the St Magnus festival’s significance.

I turn his attention to another local festival in Orkney: the internationally renowned Orkney folk festival, which, earlier this month, proved to be another huge success, with record-breaking ticket sales and an economic impact that is now estimated to be around £1 million. I congratulate the organisers, volunteers and performers for their part in that success, and I should probably declare an interest, because my brother has played a part in all three of those categories over the years.

Concerns have been raised about the lack of support that is available through EventScotland; there appears to be a limit of three years of funding and a focus on growing or new events. The cabinet secretary will recognise that island festivals perhaps have a more limited capacity to grow and that sustainability is far more important.

I ask the cabinet secretary to speak to EventScotland and see whether there is a way to ensure that the way in which funding is allocated is island-proofed in accordance with the Islands (Scotland) Act 2018.

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Let us keep our questions and responses concise.

Angus Robertson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Central)

I will try my best to do so.

I understand the point that Liam McArthur is making about continuity. That is why multiyear funding has been brought in through Creative Scotland. He raises an issue that is specific to the Orkney folk festival, and I will look at that closely.

I join him in congratulating the organisers, volunteers, performers, and, indeed, his brother. He asks me to raise with EventScotland the matter that he has highlighted—I am content to do so and I will get back to him on the points that he has raised.

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Three members wish to ask supplementary questions. If we can keep them concise, we will fit them in.

Ben Macpherson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Northern and Leith)

Does the cabinet secretary agree that local events, such as the Leith festival, the north Edinburgh community festival, the Newhaven gala and other, similar gatherings around the country play an important role in promoting small businesses, supporting artists and community groups, and helping to foster a sense of community cohesion and pride?

Angus Robertson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Central)

Ben Macpherson is absolutely right to mention events in Edinburgh Northern and Leith. I add to that list the Meadows festival in Edinburgh Central—of course, other festivals are available throughout the rest of the country.

The Scottish Government is committed to supporting a thriving music industry in Scotland, including grass-roots music venues, which are key for emerging Scottish talent. The fact that 77 per cent of the recipients of multiyear funding represent organisations that focus on exhibitions, events and performances underlines our emphasis on supporting local platforms across Scotland.

Alexander Stewart (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

The future of the Knockengorroch festival, which is billed as Scotland’s oldest greenfield festival, hangs in the balance due to financial pressures that have arisen as a result of the festival having running costs of more than £320,000 in recent years. What action is the cabinet secretary taking to ensure that such vital regional festivals are allowed to thrive and survive?

Angus Robertson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Central)

I have given pretty detailed background information on the Scottish Government’s commitment to funding for events. Liam McArthur raised the issue of continuity of funding, which we have been aware is a challenge for a number of festivals in Scotland.

I am content to take away the case that Alexander Stewart has raised with me and have conversations about it with officials, and I undertake to write back to him. I want to support the footprint of festivals and events across Scotland, including the one that he has raised with me.

Neil Bibby (Labour, West Scotland)

Edinburgh’s festivals are vital to Edinburgh’s economy and Scotland’s status as a cultural hub, but venues have recently reported that the high costs of accommodation are resulting in performers restricting their time at the Edinburgh fringe. Will the cabinet secretary discuss with ministerial colleagues, such as Mr Fairlie and the Cabinet Secretary for Transport, further extending the running hours of ScotRail services to Glasgow and the west during the festivals, to ensure that more people can attend and more performers can access cheaper accommodation, and to spread the economic benefits of Edinburgh’s festivals across Scotland?

Angus Robertson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Central)

Neil Bibby makes a really good point. That is why I initiated and set up the strategic partnership for Scotland’s festivals. Such issues are so important that it is necessary to have more than just one meeting. Such meetings should take place regularly, and I have begun that process. The issue of transport is one of the first issues to have been raised, and I have sought to explore solutions such as the one that he outlined. I can tell him that I have already had a bilateral meeting with the transport secretary to discuss the matter.

Neil Bibby is absolutely right. We want to make sure that the benefit of festivals in one part of the country can be shared throughout the rest of the country and that those festivals can be accessed by people from elsewhere. We are working in partnership with festivals across Scotland to make sure that that is the case.

Stephen Kerr (Conservative, Central Scotland)

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. After four years in this place as a member of the Scottish Parliament, I come to you, after that question session, to ask specifically what I have to do, as a back-bench member of this Parliament, to get ministers to answer questions under scrutiny.

I ask that question because, yesterday, we had a long debate in this chamber about the breakdown of trust between the Scottish people and this institution, which should concern all of us. Today, I asked the cabinet secretary a very straightforward question. Over the past 18 months, the Scottish Government has sent £1.5 million to Gaza by one route or another. I asked the cabinet secretary a very simple question—I asked him whether he could give an undertaking to the Parliament that that money had not fallen into the wrong hands. Instead of an answer, what we got, frankly, was sanctimony.

If I may be so bold, Presiding Officer, I think that it is about time—and I ask you, on behalf of all members of the Parliament, to ensure that this is the case—that ministers are expected to give some semblance of an answer to a question that is asked of them in this Parliament.

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Thank you, Mr Kerr. The content of members’ contributions is not generally a matter for the chair. It is, of course, the case that the ministerial code requires that full and frank responses are given to members of this Parliament.

There will be a brief pause before we move on to the next item.

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

The next portfolio is justice and home affairs. Question 1 has not been lodged.

Emma Harper (Scottish National Party, South Scotland)

To ask the Scottish Government what plans it has to modernise family law and ensure the efficient functioning of the civil court system. (S6O-04745)

Siobhian Brown (Scottish National Party, Ayr)

The Scottish Government is taking a variety of steps to modernise family law and ensure the efficient functioning of the civil court system. For example, we recently laid commencement regulations to commence some further provisions of the Children (Scotland) Act 2020.

We plan to make further commencement regulations later this year and intend to lay Scottish statutory instruments on the regulation of child contact services. We have also convened a working group on child welfare reporters to consider how the current system is working in practice and what is needed for the new register of child welfare reporters.

Emma Harper (Scottish National Party, South Scotland)

As things stand in our court service, there are no meaningful penalties that can be dispensed by sheriffs in cases where one party to a case is purposely engaged in delaying tactics for their own gain. Can the minister advise whether work is in hand to amend the rules and guidance around civil cases to allow parties to a case engaged in such behaviour—in particular in cases of family dispute involving children—to potentially be subject to sanction where needed for the proper functioning of the courts?

Siobhian Brown (Scottish National Party, Ayr)

Delay in child contact proceedings is not in the child’s best interests. We plan to make further commencement regulations later this year in relation to the Children (Scotland) Act 2020, including section 32, which requires the court to consider how delays in contact cases can have a negative impact on the child’s welfare.

Case management rules for family actions in the sheriff court came into effect in September 2023 and are intended to help prevent undue delay in proceedings relating to the welfare of children. If a party to a case considers that another party is causing unnecessary delay, they can raise that with the sheriff.

I recognise the negative effect that non-compliance with contact orders can have on a child. Where somebody believes that another person has not obeyed a court order, they can ask the court to vary the order to hold the person in contempt of court. There is a provision on penalties for contempt of court in section 15 of the Contempt of Court Act 1981, including a fine or imprisonment.

Conducting proceedings in such a manner amounts to an abuse of process and may also involve contempt of court and result in penalty. In addition, it is open to the court to use its power to regulate the expenses arising from the court action to penalise a party for their conduct in the course of proceedings.

Liam Kerr (Conservative, North East Scotland)

One of the biggest hindrances to the efficient functioning of the civil court system is the lack of availability of legal aid solicitors. One woman seeking divorce using legal aid unsuccessfully approached 116 different law firms, while Women’s Aid Orkney reports that difficulty in securing legal aid has forced some women to stay in harmful relationships.

The minister’s earlier script had a list of inputs, but what are the outputs that she commits to that will alleviate legal aid problems? Will they be achieved before the end of 2025?

Siobhian Brown (Scottish National Party, Ayr)

As Mr Kerr might know, the Scottish Government recognises that reform is needed in the legal aid system. I published a paper in February that goes into the exact details of what we are trying to achieve before the Holyrood elections next year, which I can send to Mr Kerr if he has not read it.

In the short term, we have identified priority changes that we believe will impact positively on users and providers, and bridge the gap between the current system and the future one in line with our reform objectives and expected benefits. This is the first stage in a long journey towards a more strategic, focused and managed legal aid system, including a framework for decision making. We are keen to hear views from all those across the justice system, including Mr Kerr, on areas of reform and matters of prioritisation.

Pam Gosal (Conservative, West Scotland)

To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on the roll-out of the Caledonian system. (S6O-04746)

Angela Constance (Scottish National Party, Almond Valley)

The Caledonian system is currently delivered in 21 of 32 local authority areas, covering over 70 per cent of the population. The Scottish Government is committed to rolling it out further; by the end of this year, two more areas—Shetland and Angus—will begin training to deliver the Caledonian system, which will take the figure up to 23 areas. The Scottish Government has just written to all local authorities, detailing a change to the funding distribution and providing details of a £1.4 million increase in the Caledonian system funding line. We will also be engaging with all local areas to provide central support and training for those areas that wish to move to delivering the Caledonian system.

Pam Gosal (Conservative, West Scotland)

Rehabilitation is key to preventing reoffending. That is why my Prevention of Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill would increase the uptake of rehabilitation courses for domestic abusers.

The Scottish National Party’s 2021 manifesto said that it would

“also increase ... work ... to change attitudes of offenders ... by ensuring that the Caledonian Project is available nationwide.”

However, the Government now says that the programme has been rolled out to only 21 of the 32 local authorities, with just two more expected by the end of the year. Does the cabinet secretary agree that access to rehabilitation programmes such as the Caledonian system should be guaranteed and available everywhere in Scotland?

Angela Constance (Scottish National Party, Almond Valley)

I certainly agree on the value and importance of the Caledonian programme. It is important to recognise that some local authorities use other programmes. The importance that I place on the Caledonian system is demonstrated by the increase in funding for this budgetary year—which means £10 million over two years. We are also supporting local authorities in improving information technology. Other risk assessment tools, such as the spousal assault risk assessment tool, are attached to the programme. We will continue to support the roll-out of the Caledonian system, notwithstanding the fact that local authorities in some areas have chosen to use other programmes.

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

I ask Pauline McNeill to be brief.

Pauline McNeill (Labour, Glasgow)

It is time to focus on the attitudes of boys to women and girls, as we need to recognise that early intervention is the key to a long-term reduction in violence and domestic abuse. I am sure that the cabinet secretary has at least heard of Gareth Southgate’s intervention lecture, which I thought was very good. In it, Gareth Southgate talked about the “manipulative and toxic influences” that are causing harm to young men. Does the cabinet secretary agree that it is imperative to revise existing school programmes to focus on boys and their attitude to women and girls—complex though that is—to ensure that we have a real chance of reducing violence against women and girls in our society?

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

Cabinet secretary, please be as brief as possible.

Angela Constance (Scottish National Party, Almond Valley)

In short, I agree with that. I will give two examples. Work on online harms is being led by the Minister for Children, Young People and The Promise and the Minister for Victims and Community Safety. The endeavours that are led by the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills on attendance, behaviour and the curriculum are crucially important, and equally safe and relationships education are an important part of that.

Alexander Stewart (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

To ask the Scottish Government what its response is to reports that the number of serious assaults committed by teenagers has increased in the past five years. (S6O-04747)

Angela Constance (Scottish National Party, Almond Valley)

I am, of course, concerned about any reports of increases in violence. Although Police Scotland has advised that the total number of serious assaults by 11 to 18-year-olds fell by 27 per cent between 2019-20 and 2024-25, there has been an increase in serious cases in schools—from six to 40.

Our approach to tackling violence among young people is focused on education programmes on the unacceptability of violence, effective punishment for offences, appropriate police powers and sustained school and community engagement with young people. To show our continued commitment to tackling violence, I am also pleased to say that I have increased funding to the Scottish Violence Reduction Unit by 7 per cent. Its total funding will be in excess of £1.2 million.

Alexander Stewart (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

Serious assaults by teenagers continue to rise. The number of children possessing knives is up 15 per cent among 11 to 15-year-olds and 14 per cent among 16 to 18-year-olds. In recent weeks, police have been called to a primary school to deal with a child carrying a knife, and, tragically, a 16-year-old lost their life on Irvine beach after a fatal stabbing by another teenager. Clearly, the Scottish National Party’s soft-touch approach to justice is not working. Is it not therefore time to back the Scottish Conservatives’ calls for more stop and search powers to tackle the epidemic of youth violence?

Angela Constance (Scottish National Party, Almond Valley)

Although there has been demonstrable progress in the reduction of crime and violence, including in offending behaviour by young people, I appreciate that that will be of no comfort to victims and families and it is important to recognise that that progress is not always felt in communities. It is therefore important that we acknowledge recent concerns and changes in the behaviour of some young people. It is important to recognise that most young people are law-abiding citizens.

With respect, I say that the member can keep his “soft touch” rhetoric. I am interested in the evidence about what works for now and in the future, and I am not interested in revisiting debates of the past on interventions that have not worked.

I am strongly of the view that police have adequate stop and search powers. They use those powers and have successfully extracted 900 weapons from citizens, 200 of which have been from young people.

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

I will need a bit more brevity in the questions and responses.

Ben Macpherson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Northern and Leith)

It is widely understood that good youth work and innovative initiatives can have a positive impact on young people who may be engaged in violence or drawn into it. Therefore, can the Scottish Government advise when the next youth violence summit will take place and say more about what urgent action will be taken to expand prevention measures and early intervention?

Angela Constance (Scottish National Party, Almond Valley)

The next youth violence summit will take place in the next week or so, and it will have a particular focus on the value of youth work interventions.

The Scottish Government will continue to invest in interventions that are successful in engaging and educating our young people. I hope that we have demonstrated that through our on-going commitment and the recent announcement that the minister made about the cashback for communities scheme. There are also other interventions, such as the quit fighting for likes campaign.

Douglas Lumsden (Conservative, North East Scotland)

To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide further detail regarding the reasons why it is not planning a broader review of the statutory grounds for fatal accident inquiries, in light of the previous review of statutory grounds being undertaken nearly a decade ago and reports of growing public concern over preventable deaths outside of custody settings. (S6O-04748)

Angela Constance (Scottish National Party, Almond Valley)

A focused review in relation to deaths in custody was commissioned in January this year in order to allow a swift response to the recommendations for improvements to be made to the fatal accident inquiry system as it relates to death in custody.

Douglas Lumsden (Conservative, North East Scotland)

The question concerned deaths outside of custody settings. In 2019, Aberdeen father and good Samaritan Alan Geddes was murdered by a man who had been released from prison just hours earlier. In 2023, the Mental Welfare Commission for Scotland released its damning report, which highlighted a list of failures in the run-up to the release of Stuart Quinn. If Government agencies had acted differently, the outcome could have been different. Alan’s sister, Sandra, continues to fight for answers, and the case is crying out for a fatal accident inquiry.

Does the cabinet secretary agree that, when someone commits murder just hours after release from prison, there have obviously been failures and that the criteria for a statutory FAI must be widened to cover such situations?

Angela Constance (Scottish National Party, Almond Valley)

Mr Lumsden has been a keen advocate on behalf of his constituent Sandra Geddes, whom I had the pleasure of meeting as a result of an intervention from Mr Lumsden when the bill that became the Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Act 2023 was going through Parliament. There were a number of changes at that time in and around throughcare standards in legislation and the imperative nature of good release planning.

Although the current review that I have commissioned is focused on deaths in custody, I say to Mr Lumsden that any wider learning points from the review will be given due consideration in a broader context.

Rona Mackay (Scottish National Party, Strathkelvin and Bearsden)

Can the cabinet secretary assure me that the Sheriff Abercrombie-led independent review of the system of FAIs into deaths in prison custody will meet and engage with families to hear directly from them about their experiences?

Angela Constance (Scottish National Party, Almond Valley)

It will be for the independent chair, Sheriff Abercrombie, to decide how to conduct the review, but I know from meeting him prior to his taking up the appointment that engaging with families and learning from their experience will be central to the review. The terms of reference that I set mean that the review will have to include the effectiveness, efficiency and the trauma-informed nature of investigations into deaths in custody.

Mark Ruskell (Green, Mid Scotland and Fife)

To ask the Scottish Government what its position is on using the powers outlined in the International Criminal Court (Scotland) Act 2001 to prosecute nationals and residents of the United Kingdom residing in Scotland who have committed war crimes. (S6O-04749)

Angela Constance (Scottish National Party, Almond Valley)

Although it is crucial that Scotland has the ability to prosecute international crimes within the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court, any decision to initiate proceedings against any individual is a matter for independent operational partners and is not for the Scottish Government to comment on.

Mark Ruskell (Green, Mid Scotland and Fife)

What we are now seeing on a daily and hourly basis coming from Gaza is evidence of war crimes being committed by members of the Israel Defense Forces. Given that the Metropolitan Police’s war crimes unit has received a dossier of evidence that accuses 10 British citizens of committing war crimes, including the targeted killing of civilians and aid workers, what action can the Scottish Government take to ensure that the provisions of the 2001 act are followed through and ensure the safety of our communities when we potentially face war criminals living among us?

Angela Constance (Scottish National Party, Almond Valley)

I hope that the member appreciates that the Scottish Government is a firm believer in the rule of law both domestically and internationally. The International Criminal Court has four international obligations in relation to war crimes, crimes against humanity, genocide and the crime of aggression. As a Government, we support any investigation into crimes against humanity and genocide. The International Court of Justice has insisted that Israel takes all steps to prevent the crime of genocide and it has ordered Israel to ensure access for relevant United Nations bodies so that the crime can be investigated.

As the member will appreciate, decisions on prosecution in Scotland are for the Lord Advocate and the Crown Office, which would require reports to be received by a reporting agency to make any further considerations.

Roz McCall (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

To ask the Scottish Government, in relation to its commitment that no young person under the age of 18 should be imprisoned, what discussions it has had with the Scottish Sentencing Council regarding reviewing the “Sentencing young people” guideline, which states that all sentencing options, including imprisonment, remain open to the court. (S6O-04750)

Angela Constance (Scottish National Party, Almond Valley)

Decisions on sentencing are for the independent courts. Custody is available as a disposal when the person who is sentenced is under 25 years of age. The Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Act 2024 also permits the use of custodial sentences for under-18s. While the sentenced person is under 18, their sentence cannot be served in a young offenders institution and is instead served in an age-appropriate setting such as secure accommodation. If an individual’s sentence extends beyond their turning 18, the remainder of the sentence will be served in a young offenders institution and prison, as appropriate.

Roz McCall (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

The public expect absolute clarity on what steps can be taken in the criminal justice system to bring the most serious offenders to justice, regardless of their age. That was confirmed by the First Minister’s answer to my colleague Russell Findlay on 22 May, when he reiterated that

“It remains open to prosecutors to prosecute a young person if they have committed a serious offence.”—[Official Report, 22 May 2025; c 11.]

Given the on-going capacity crisis in our secure accommodation system, to which the judicial system could be forced to send young offenders because there is simply nowhere else to put them, will the cabinet secretary give more clarity to both the Scottish Sentencing Council and this Parliament on the precise criteria for sending a young person to prison? How do they interact with the Scottish Government’s cast-iron commitment not to imprison anyone under the age of 18, as enshrined by law?

Angela Constance (Scottish National Party, Almond Valley)

The legal route to placing under-18s in prisons or young offenders institutions was closed by this Parliament, so there is no legal route to send young people to prison. I hope that I can reassure Roz McCall by saying that the budget that this Parliament has passed includes additional resource of up to £8.5 million to support the placement of children who are sentenced or remanded. Investment in preventing children from coming into contact with the criminal justice system remains a priority, whether that is through the allocation of resources from cashback for communities or the whole family wellbeing fund.

Katy (Labour, West Scotland)

I agree that no young person aged under 18 should be in prison. However, we need to ensure that there are adequate numbers of places in secure units for justice referrals. In recent decades, we have seen a change in the profile of young people in secure units. For example, there are now larger numbers of young women in such units for non-judicial disposals, such as concern about self-harming. What work is the cabinet secretary doing across Government to ensure that an adequate number of the 78 places are available for justice referrals?

Angela Constance (Scottish National Party, Almond Valley)

That is an important area of work that involves justice ministers along with education ministers. As I said, we have increased the budget to pay for the placements of not only children who are sentenced, who are the responsibility of ministers, but also those children who are on remand, who would normally be funded by local authorities. We have taken that on board.

With regard to increasing capacity, there are also four fully-funded new secure beds in Rossie. We are committed to increasing resourcing when beds become available so that they are part of a contract to ensure that we have the facilities available for our children.

Willie Coffey (Scottish National Party, Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley)

To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on funding for the cashback for communities programme. (S6O-04751)

Siobhian Brown (Scottish National Party, Ayr)

The commitment to a further three-year phase of the cashback for communities programme was included in the programme for government for 2025-26. To support programme delivery, up to £26 million will be made available, which is an increase of £6 million from the current phase. The programme is funded by money that is recovered through the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 and it supports young people who are at risk of becoming involved in antisocial behaviour, offending or reoffending.

Information relating to the programme is available on the cashback for communities website, and the programme is open to applications from Thursday 12 June.

Willie Coffey (Scottish National Party, Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley)

It is crucial that young people who are at risk of being drawn into criminal activity have access to support and to projects such as cashback for communities. Can the minister say some more about the impact of the investment in violence prevention in my communities in Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley and in communities across Scotland?

Siobhian Brown (Scottish National Party, Ayr)

Since 2023, we have invested more than £6 million for the delivery of a range of activities through the violence prevention framework. That includes the work of the Scottish Violence Reduction Unit, Medics Against Violence and YouthLink Scotland’s No Knives, Better Lives programme, and the delivery of the mentors in violence prevention in schools throughout Scotland.

Some of that work is being delivered in Ayrshire, including the delivery of the hospital navigators service at Crosshouse hospital emergency department and the extension of that approach into the police custody suite as well. That investment seeks to help to prevent violence, reduce its harm and, ultimately, improve outcomes for young people and communities throughout Scotland.

The cashback for communities programme is also having an impact on young people in the area. The latest report, which covers 2023-24, shows that 197 young people in East Ayrshire were supported through seven local cashback projects.

Sharon Dowey (Conservative, South Scotland)

At the Criminal Justice Committee, we heard from Police Scotland that it would like some of the money that is recovered from the proceeds of crime to return to the police service, as is the case in England, Wales and Northern Ireland. It said that it sees

“real benefit in being able to do that, because you can turn that money back to deal with the type of crime that you are facing.”—[Official Report, Criminal Justice Committee, 14 May 2025; c 28.]

Police Scotland also said that that would send a strong message to criminals that their money was now going to fund the officers who would chase them and their fellow offenders down.

Although the Scottish Conservatives support money going back to communities, has the minister considered using some of the proceeds in that way?

Siobhian Brown (Scottish National Party, Ayr)

The Police Scotland budget has been increased this year by £90 million, and we have committed £26 million to the cashback for communities scheme to be reinvested into our youth programmes across all 32 local authorities in Scotland.

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

That concludes portfolio questions on justice and home affairs.

Murdo Fraser (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

To ask the Scottish Government what recent discussions it has had with UHI Perth in relation to its funding position. (S6O-04752)

Graeme Dey (Scottish National Party, Angus South)

The Scottish Funding Council has statutory responsibility for oversight of higher and further education institutions in Scotland. Perth college is assigned to the University of the Highlands and Islands as the regional strategic body. Therefore, the SFC has been working with UHI and Perth college to address some of the issues, such as the interim appointments of senior staff.

Murdo Fraser (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

UHI Perth plays a vital role in the economy and community of Perthshire, yet it faces serious financial challenges, with a £2 million deficit and a principal who has just stepped down following the collapse of air service training—a long-established aviation training arm—leading to staff redundancies and a loss of student places. The college is now having to consider scrapping degree courses. That is a crisis and it has been made worse by the top slicing of the college budget to fund the executive office functions of UHI in Inverness. What is the Scottish Government doing to help the college before it sees more redundancies and course closures?

Graeme Dey (Scottish National Party, Angus South)

On top slicing, as Murdo Fraser refers to it, he might or might not be aware of an extensive piece of work that has been conducted by UHI in conjunction with its constituent parts to look at a future long-term and sustainable model. I would like to think that Murdo Fraser is as committed as I am to UHI as a concept and to its long-term future.

I recognise the issues that he describes, including the financial challenges at Perth college. The SFC and UHI have been working extensively and closely with the institution over a sustained period of time. I am happy to ask both institutions to engage with Murdo Fraser, if they have not done so already, to give him a fuller understanding of what that work has covered. I recognise that there have been difficult and challenging times for staff and students at the institution, but I point to the fact that UHI now has in place an interim acting principal who is highly respected and experienced, as well as a highly-regarded interim finance director. I am optimistic that things will progress from here.

Colin Beattie (Scottish National Party, Midlothian North and Musselburgh)

Universities and colleges such as UHI Perth are facing increasing external pressure as a result of hostile United Kingdom Government policies, namely on immigration and the rise in employer national insurance contributions. The sector has been vocal about its concerns, so can the minister speak to the potential impact that Labour’s immigration crackdown could have on our higher education sector?

Graeme Dey (Scottish National Party, Angus South)

There is no doubt that the proposals that have been made in the past couple of weeks are causing considerable consternation in our higher and further education sectors. That comes on top of the employer national insurance contribution bombshell that was dropped on them. That is why the Scottish Government is seeking changes to graduate visa routes so that we can have a bespoke arrangement for Scotland that meets our needs.

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

Question 2 was not lodged.

Alex Rowley (Labour, Mid Scotland and Fife)

To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on what support it is providing to teachers to help deal with behaviour in classrooms. (S6O-04754)

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

In August, the Scottish Government published a joint action plan with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities on relationships and behaviour in schools. The first progress report, which set out action that was taken between November 2023 and March 2025, was published at the end of March, and showed that progress has been made against all 20 actions within the plan. In the coming weeks, we will be publishing new guidance, including on the use of consequences, to support schools to foster a positive, inclusive and safe school environment. We will also be publishing new guidance on developing risk assessments for violent, aggressive or dangerous behaviour.

Alex Rowley (Labour, Mid Scotland and Fife)

The headline message this week from an Educational Institute of Scotland survey is that teacher workload is unfair and unhealthy. It is clear that contact time for teachers must be reduced, and that we need more additional support needs teachers and more teachers in general in our classrooms, as was promised, and smaller class sizes. Does the cabinet secretary not realise that those are the key actions that need to be taken if we are going to address the issues in our classrooms?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

I thank Mr Rowley for raising that important issue in relation to the EIS survey and I look forward to addressing the EIS annual general meeting at its conference in Aviemore tomorrow.

The member will know that a key condition of the budget was that substantive progress was made on reducing class contact time. That is absolutely pivotal to creating the headspace that is needed in driving reform. He will also know that the budget provided extra funding to councils such as Fife in relation to teacher numbers and additional support needs. I have to observe that the Labour Party decided to abstain on that budget.

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

We have a number of supplementary questions. I will try to get them all in.

Roz McCall (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

The cabinet secretary mentioned the Scottish Government’s action plan. That was published in August last year but, since then, more than 3,000 violent behaviour incidents have been reported in schools in Fife alone. We know that teachers are having to dedicate an increased amount of time to dealing with challenging incidents and that they are dealing with a lack of support for mainstreaming pupils and the upcoming changes in the Education (Scotland) Bill. That is simply too much for our dedicated teaching professionals, many of whom are contemplating leaving the profession.

In the update, will the Scottish Government give an idea of the effectiveness of the plan from last summer, particularly in light of the increasing expectations on our teachers?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

Roz McCall has consistently raised issues relating to Fife. We have discussed those, and I am more than happy to engage with her further on that matter. I spoke about the advice on developing risk assessments for violent behaviour and on consequences that we will publish before the end of term. That was a key ask that came ahead of the publication of the behaviour action plan. There was a feeling from members of the profession that there were no longer consequences that they could deploy and be supported with. I want to be clear that teachers should be supported. We have exclusion in Scotland’s schools, and I have been clear that it is in the gift of teachers to use that as and when appropriate.

On the member’s point about effectiveness, the action plan runs over three years, and we will evaluate its effectiveness annually. I am more than happy to engage with the member ahead of that evaluation.

Ahead of the publication of the plan, I engaged with the Opposition on the issue—Mr Kerr was the Conservative party spokesperson at that point. That cross-party engagement was helpful. Perhaps it would be wise if we reconvened that group in August to look at the action plan on a cross-party basis and to talk about some of the issues that Ms McCall has rightly raised this afternoon.

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

I need a bit more brevity.

Bill Kidd (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Anniesland)

Alex Rowley raised the important issue of support for teachers. Freedom of information releases show that South Lanarkshire Council, which is run by Labour, has received more than £12 million of Scottish Government funding to reverse cuts to teacher numbers, but it refuses to do so and will end up cutting 65 more teachers. Will the cabinet secretary speak about the impact that that reckless decision by Labour will have? Does she agree that councils, including in Glasgow and other areas, should use that funding to support teachers?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

As colleagues will know, and as I iterated in my response to Mr Rowley, the Government has made available £186.5 million to increase teacher numbers. We made that deal with councils in good faith through the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, and I expect our councils to uphold their end of the deal. For example, I note that in excess of £12 million is being made available to help South Lanarkshire Council to do that. I hope that, when they are speaking with their local government colleagues, colleagues across the chamber will encourage them to uphold their end of the deal, which was made in good faith.

In relation to Fife Council in particular, I encourage Fife colleagues to engage with the Labour-run council in that part of the country to ensure that it is not planning to cut any teacher numbers.

Douglas Ross (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

The cabinet secretary will be aware of the case of Carol Shaw, who was violently attacked by a pupil in her school. He lifted her up and threw her head first on to a concrete floor, endangering her life. Following the attack, he went to another teacher’s desk, put his foot up on the desk and said:

“The stupid cow deserved it.”

What does the cabinet secretary say about that horrifying attack? When she speaks about consequences, will she have a discussion with the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs about how that individual escaped custody, despite the sheriff in the case saying that he could have received 18 months in custody?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

I thank Mr Ross for raising that issue. I am of course aware of the case, which has received extensive coverage in the press. It would not be appropriate for me to comment on that specific case, but I am already engaging with the justice secretary on some of the substantive issues, particularly in relation to the recent press reports that we have seen regarding knife crime. There is a real need for us to take a joined-up approach to education and justice.

Two weeks ago, the First Minister spoke about our work on the mentors in violence prevention. That work is happening in our schools today, and it is good work, but there is more that we can do on a cross-portfolio basis on the point that the member makes, which I support.

Katy (Labour, West Scotland)

To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on what it is doing to address violence in schools. (S6O-04755)

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

As I outlined in my previous answer, we are currently implementing our relationships and behaviour national action plan in conjunction with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities. The plan contains a number of different actions around reducing violence and harm in schools.

In addition, since the publication of the violence prevention framework in 2023, we have provided more than £6 million to organisations, including the Scottish Violence Reduction Unit and YouthLink Scotland for its No Knives, Better Lives programme, to deliver a range of prevention and early intervention activity, which includes specific work in our schools.

In the coming weeks, we will publish new guidance for schools on consequences and on risk assessments for violent, aggressive or dangerous behaviour.

Katy (Labour, West Scotland)

In a survey conducted among teachers by the NASUWT trade union, eight in 10 respondents said that they had been threatened with a weapon by a pupil in the previous 12 months, and 37 per cent said that they had been assaulted with a weapon. The cabinet secretary has said that the Government is working on guidance. Does she think that the action plan is working? What role does she believe that the police should have in addressing the issue? We are often told that schools are discouraged from contacting the police, even in serious cases.

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

I thank Katy Clark for raising an important issue. Her question covers a similar theme to that of Roz McCall’s question on the impact of the national action plan, which was launched in August. What I said in response to Ms McCall will also apply to Katy Clark’s question. It is important that we engage on a cross-party basis on that point.

Katy Clark also highlighted the point that Mr Ross made about the connection between justice and education. A number of our schools in Scotland have campus police officers. There is, quite rightly, a connection between justice and education—I often invited the police into my classroom to speak to my pupils about the role of law and order in society. I am more than happy to take away Katy Clark’s points.

On the action plan, as I said in response to the previous question, further advice will be published in relation to consequences and on violent and aggressive behaviour.

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

There are a couple of supplementary questions, which will need to be brief.

Marie McNair (Scottish National Party, Clydebank and Milngavie)

Violence has no place in Scotland’s schools. I welcome the £2 million additional investment from the Scottish Government to address youth violence and the carrying of weapons in and around schools. It is clear that we continue to see challenges in relation to misogynistic behaviour and gender-based violence in wider society.

Will the cabinet secretary comment further on the Government’s work on the issue and on how the Scottish budget delivers on the priorities of the equally safe strategy?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

We are fully committed to eradicating violence against women and girls. This year, we are investing £21.6 million in the delivering equally safe fund, supporting 115 projects from 107 organisations that focus on early intervention and prevention, as well as support services.

As part of that investment, we are funding and supporting programmes to address gender-based violence and sexual harassment in our schools. That includes £1.89 million over four years to Rape Crisis Scotland to support the implementation of equally safe at school and the continued delivery of the national sexual violence prevention programme. In the past 10 years, the national sexual violence prevention programme has reached more than 135,000 young people.

Miles Briggs (Conservative, Lothian)

A freedom of information request by the Scottish Conservatives has revealed that teachers in Edinburgh and Aberdeenshire have requested self-defence classes. It is totally unacceptable that we are living in a country where our teachers are asking for self-defence classes.

What is being done by the Government? What will be done by management to ensure that, if a teacher requests that a pupil is not in the classroom, they will not be brought back into the classroom?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

I am sympathetic to the member’s points. He is alluding to management in schools. We need to be mindful of the position of local government as the employer and the position of the Scottish Government. I am happy to take the issue that he has raised to the Association of Directors of Education in Scotland.

I know that having support from the management team in school is fundamental to supporting a classroom teacher in responding to challenging behaviour. The member raises an important issue, and I will address it accordingly with ADES.

Alexander Burnett (Conservative, Aberdeenshire West)

To ask the Scottish Government when the children’s minister last met with Aberdeenshire Council to discuss nursery closures. (S6O-04756)

The Minister for Children, Young People and The Promise (Natalie Don-Innes)

As I have explained previously, it is the statutory responsibility of local authorities to manage their early learning and childcare estate in consultation with local communities to which they are democratically accountable. Although it would not be appropriate for me to comment on an individual council’s processes, I can confirm that senior officials have written to Aberdeenshire Council to highlight the requirements of statutory guidance in relation to the mothballing of local authority services.

I understand that Mr Burnett is keen to take up my previous offer of a meeting, which I believe is now in the process of being arranged, and I look forward to it.

Alexander Burnett (Conservative, Aberdeenshire West)

I am glad that the minister is aware of the proposal to mothball four nurseries in Aberdeenshire. A full council meeting is taking place next Monday to make a final decision, but, despite numerous questions, we still appear to be going round in circles, with ministers saying that consultation is required under the guidance and council officers saying that it is not. I asked the minister to write to the council—which was done on 30 May—but it is disappointing that the contents of that letter were not shared with my office. Can the minister simply confirm that her letter to the council confirmed what she and the First Minister have said in the chamber, which is that a consultation should have taken place?

Natalie Don-Innes

I can confirm, as I said in my previous answer, that senior Scottish Government officials wrote to the council’s director of education on 29 May to draw the council’s attention to the existing mothballing guidance, including the provisions relating to consultation with affected families and communities.

Rona Mackay (Scottish National Party, Strathkelvin and Bearsden)

The minister will be aware that the Tories run Aberdeenshire Council, so Mr Burnett should raise the issue with his Tory colleagues. The Scottish Government is funding local authorities to deliver 1,140 hours of ELC to all eligible children, including those in Aberdeenshire. That policy is crucial to providing the best start in life for our children. Will the minister provide information on how the addressing depopulation action plan contributes to that objective?

Natalie Don-Innes

Ms Mackay raises an extremely important point. In relation to the challenges, the addressing depopulation action plan sets out the Scottish Government’s strategic approach to supporting local communities that face population decline, of which lack of childcare is an important driver. We have made grants available to local authorities via the fund, and two of those grants focus on addressing childcare issues in areas that are affected by acute population decline. For example, Highland Council is examining the workability of subsidised childminding, and Western Isles Council was granted funding to pilot new models of training in childcare in order to bolster employability.

Oliver Mundell (Conservative, Dumfriesshire)

To ask the Scottish Government what steps it is taking to ensure that pupils with additional support needs receive consistent and adequate support. (S6O-04757)

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

Delivery of ASN continues to be a joint endeavour with local authorities, which retain the statutory responsibility for the delivery of education and the responsibility to identify, provide for and review the needs of their pupils. We have provided record investment in additional support for learning, with local authorities spending more than £1 billion in 2023-24. We have continued to invest £15 million each year since 2020 to help schools to respond to the individual needs of children and young people, and the 2025-26 budget sets out a further £29 million of additional investment for ASN. I have also committed to a cross-party round-table meeting on, and a review of, ASL.

Oliver Mundell (Conservative, Dumfriesshire)

The funding that has been set out does not match the need. Today is another day with teachers reportedly being in tears and at breaking point. A new survey by the NASUWT shows that 70 per cent of teachers say that support for ASN pupils has declined over the past five years, with more than a third saying that they rarely receive the financial support that they need to teach ASN pupils properly. That does not come as a surprise to me. Something is going wrong. What is the cabinet secretary going to do to change that?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

When I met the NASUWT yesterday, we discussed at length additional support needs, among a number of other matters. Mr Mundell stated that the funding does not match the need, but more than £1 billion of investment was provided in the previous financial year and additional funding was provided in this year’s budget. I must observe that Mr Mundell and his party colleagues did not vote for that budget and the extra funding. I am happy to engage with him on alternatives and what he thinks should be done, but it is not the case that less money is going to our schools—the budget provides extra funding.

Willie Coffey (Scottish National Party, Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley)

I welcome the £29 million that the Scottish National Party Government has invested in additional support for learning, and I gently remind colleagues that Scottish Labour and the Tories refused to back the budget, which delivered that funding for education in Scotland. How will that funding support the role of local authorities in recruiting for our workforce?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

As I have set out, in 2025-26, local government will receive £29 million of funding to improve outcomes for all children and young people with additional support needs. It is worth recounting that outcomes for children and young people with additional support needs are improving and that the attainment gap in relation to ASN is narrowing.

We are working with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities on that investment, and we are building on existing spend in relation to inclusion. Further funding is being provided through the budget to support local and national programmes that will directly support the recruitment and retention of our ASN workforce. That is pivotal to supporting ASN pupils in our schools.

Pam Duncan-Glancy (Labour, Glasgow)

The cabinet secretary has again listed the Government’s inputs, but that does not take away from the fact that thousands of teachers are working the equivalent of an extra day per week and only 1 per cent of them have sufficient time to support pupils with additional support needs, according to an Educational Institute of Scotland survey of more than 11,000 teachers that was published this week.

Does the cabinet secretary accept that the Government’s failure to address the crisis in teaching or address teachers’ workloads is driving the growing ASN crisis in schools?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

Pam Duncan-Glancy claims that I did not address output, but in my previous response I talked about output in relation to the narrowing attainment gap for pupils with additional support needs. That news is to be welcomed.

As I spoke about, the budget provided extra funding for ASN and teacher numbers. The budget agreement was contingent on our local authorities agreeing to reduce class contact time. The Labour Party abstained on that budget, so Ms Duncan-Glancy’s rhetoric this afternoon does not meet the reality.

Daniel Johnson (Labour, Edinburgh Southern)

Your party voted against the money at Westminster.

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

Please continue, cabinet secretary.

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

I am done.

Craig Hoy (Conservative, South Scotland)

To ask the Scottish Government what assessment it has made of the scale of online bullying in schools. (S6O-04758)

The Minister for Children, Young People and The Promise (Natalie Don-Innes)

Any bullying is unacceptable and must be addressed promptly and effectively. Online bullying can take place at any time of day, during school time or after hours, and we recognise the impact that it can have on a young person.

In November, we published updated anti-bullying guidance, which has an increased emphasis on how schools can support young people who are experiencing online bullying. Together with the Minister for Victims and Community Safety, I am leading a joint ministerial task force that is focused on tackling online harms, which will seek to identify what more can be done to protect young people online.

Craig Hoy (Conservative, South Scotland)

Dumfries and Galloway youth council is an organisation that is run for and by young people. Last year, it highlighted bullying as one of its top five major local concerns. As the minister said, online bullying does not end at the school gates; it is often hidden and can cause untold misery for its victims every hour of the day.

In response, Dumfries and Galloway Council has announced a review of bullying, which is taking the views of schools, children, young people, parents and carers into account. However, councils cannot tackle that massive problem alone. Will the minister commit to ensuring that schools have the resources—both guidance and funding—to tackle concerns about online bullying? Will she update the Parliament on what engagement the Scottish Government has had with the United Kingdom Government to ensure that social media giants do everything that they can to protect Scotland’s children from online harm?

Natalie Don-Innes

Mr Hoy has raised a crucial point. As he said, online bullying can take place outside the school gates, which adds an extra level of complexity. A lot of what we have been talking about in the chamber this afternoon is to do with tackling violence. Supporting our teachers has a part to play in that, as well as ensuring that incidents are recorded and children and young people have the confidence to come forward and report such incidents.

On the work that I am leading alongside Ms Brown, I can confirm that the online safety task force’s priority will be to engage with the UK Government and social media and tech companies on those exact matters in order to seek a better way forward to protect our children and young people from online harm.

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

If he ensures that his party colleagues will behave, I will take a supplementary question from Martin Whitfield.

Martin Whitfield (Labour, South Scotland)

I am very grateful, Deputy Presiding Officer. The bullying that occurs online frequently travels over the wi-fi that is provided by schools. On 16 December 2021, I posed a question on that to the then First Minister, who confirmed that the Scottish Government’s responses

“must keep pace ... with the ways in which young people can be subjected to bullying.”—[Official Report, 16 December 2021; c 29.]

The First Minister said that the Government would look at the technical difficulties that lead to wi-fi at school being the vehicle for such bullying. Has the Scottish Government concluded that review? What is the answer?

Natalie Don-Innes

Wi-fi in local schools would be a matter for local schools and local authorities. However, I am more than happy to write back to Mr Whitfield with more detail on the matter that he has brought to me.

Ben Macpherson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Northern and Leith)

To ask the Scottish Government how it is working with universities and placement schools to support the mental health and wellbeing of student teachers. (S6O-04759)

Graeme Dey (Scottish National Party, Angus South)

We recognise the vital role that mental health and wellbeing support play in ensuring that student teachers can thrive in their professional development.

Universities have a responsibility to provide wellbeing services for all their students, including those who are undertaking teacher training. While they are on placement, student teachers are supervised and supported by a registered teacher, which ensures that they receive guidance and mentorship, and that supports their growth and wellbeing. Student teachers can also engage directly with the General Teaching Council for Scotland, which provides a range of wellbeing resources and advice to support early career teachers.

Ben Macpherson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Northern and Leith)

Some constituents have raised concerns with me about the treatment and experiences of trainee and newly qualified teachers, and they report a lack of support. I have been told that the GTCS does not conduct exit interviews or gather data on the reasons why teachers leave the profession. Considering all that, will the minister advise what actions universities and placement schools should be taking to support student teacher mental health and wellbeing? Can any further relevant consideration be given to supporting trainee and newly qualified teachers to help to ensure that committed, capable and passionate people remain in the profession?

Graeme Dey (Scottish National Party, Angus South)

I set out in my original answer the support that is currently available for the wellbeing of students, teachers and early-career teachers. I can confirm that we are considering what further support might be provided. I note Ben Macpherson’s comments about the role of the GTCS in exit interviews, but the employers in this context are councils, so it is perhaps most appropriate that such work sits with them. I will ask education officials to ascertain to what extent that is happening and whether the data is being collated. I will undertake to apprise Mr Macpherson of the progress and consideration of possible further support.

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

That concludes portfolio questions on education and skills. There will be a brief pause before we move to the next item of business to allow for a changeover of front-bench teams.

Business Motion

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

The next item of business is consideration of business motion S6M-17801, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, setting out a business programme.

Motion moved,

That the Parliament agrees—

(a) the following programme of business—

Tuesday 10 June 2025

2.00 pm Time for Reflection

followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions

followed by Topical Questions (if selected)

followed by Stage 3 Proceedings: Care Reform (Scotland) Bill

followed by Committee Announcements

followed by Business Motions

followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions

7.00 pm Decision Time

followed by Members’ Business

Wednesday 11 June 2025

2.00 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions

2.00 pm Portfolio Questions: Deputy First Minister Responsibilities, Economy and Gaelic; Finance and Local Government

followed by Scottish Labour Party Business

followed by Business Motions

followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions

followed by Approval of SSIs (if required)

5.10 pm Decision Time

followed by Members’ Business

Thursday 12 June 2025

11.40 am Parliamentary Bureau Motions

11.40 am General Questions

12.00 pm First Minister’s Questions

followed by Members’ Business

2.30 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions

2.30 pm Portfolio Questions: Net Zero and Energy, and Transport

followed by Ministerial Statement: Greenhouse Gas Emissions Statistics 2023

followed by Scottish Government Debate: A Migration System that Works for Scotland

followed by Business Motions

followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions

5.00 pm Decision Time

Tuesday 17 June 2025

2.00 pm Time for Reflection

followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions

followed by Topical Questions (if selected)

followed by Stage 3 Proceedings: Scottish Languages Bill

followed by Committee Announcements

followed by Business Motions

followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions

5.00 pm Decision Time

followed by Members’ Business

Wednesday 18 June 2025

2.00 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions

2.00 pm Portfolio Questions: Rural Affairs, Land Reform and Islands; Health and Social Care

followed by Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party Business

followed by Business Motions

followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions

followed by Approval of SSIs (if required)

5.10 pm Decision Time

followed by Members’ Business

Thursday 19 June 2025

11.40 am Parliamentary Bureau Motions

11.40 am General Questions

12.00 pm First Minister’s Questions

followed by Members’ Business

2.15 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions

2.15 pm Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body Questions

followed by Portfolio Questions: Social Justice

followed by Scottish Government Business

followed by Business Motions

followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions

5.00 pm Decision Time

(b) that, for the purposes of Portfolio Questions in the week beginning 9 June 2025, in rule 13.7.3, after the word “except” the words “to the extent to which the Presiding Officer considers that the questions are on the same or similar subject matter or” are inserted.—[Jamie Hepburn]

Motion agreed to.

Empowering Entrepreneurs and Innovators

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-17785, in the name of Kate Forbes, on empowering entrepreneurs and innovators. I invite members who wish to participate in the debate to press their request-to-speak buttons now or as soon as possible.

Kate Forbes (Scottish National Party, Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch)

Entrepreneurs and innovators are the catalysts of growth that shape our economy. From the moment that I first entered Government, I have championed that agenda. I believe in a future in which Scotland reclaims its position as a global leader in innovation, and in which entrepreneurs do not just imagine a better Scotland but have the tools, support and investment necessary to build it.

Scaling firms have a profound economic impact and significantly outperform the broader economy. They are 40 per cent more productive than standard small and medium-sized enterprises and corporates, they pay higher wages, and they are responsible for the majority of net job creation. Remarkably, despite accounting for less than 1 per cent of businesses in the United Kingdom, they contribute more than 50 per cent of total SME turnover, amounting to £1.2 trillion.

I am proud to say that the value of our start-up community in Scotland goes beyond what can be measured by hard economic analysis. Many of our most promising and imaginative companies are working on problems of global significance such as the climate crisis, food security and drug discovery, and those firms are dispelling the myth that growth and wellbeing are contradictory economic principles.

Sharon Dowey (Conservative, South Scotland)

[ Made a request to intervene. ]

Craig Hoy (Conservative, South Scotland)

Will the member take an intervention?

Kate Forbes (Scottish National Party, Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch)

Yes—although you do not look like Sharon Dowey.

Craig Hoy (Conservative, South Scotland)

Do I need to change, Presiding Officer, or can I simply self-declare?

Kate Forbes (Scottish National Party, Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch)

I am relaxed as to whether it is Sharon Dowey or Craig Hoy who intervenes.

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

Let us go with Craig Hoy.

Craig Hoy (Conservative, South Scotland)

I think that we have corrected the record, but I have slightly lost my train of thought.

The minister is talking about young and ambitious entrepreneurs who are global in their mindset. Would she advise a young, ambitious, globally minded entrepreneur to base themselves on one of Scotland’s islands at the moment?

Kate Forbes (Scottish National Party, Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch)

Absolutely. As a representative of Scotland’s islands—which I think that Craig Hoy mentioned—I would absolutely recommend that. A number of brilliant start-ups are located on our islands currently; indeed, I can speak from experience about some of the brilliant businesses that are located on Scotland’s islands.

Despite the global economic headwinds that have challenged our economy, there are clear signs that Scotland’s strategy is beginning to pay off. Over the past four years, we have worked closely with key figures in the private sector, such as Mark Logan and Ana Stewart, to execute a detailed plan to achieve that aim. Last year, Scotland’s risk capital market bucked UK-wide trends, with Scottish firms raising more than £700 million in funding—a 19 per cent increase on the previous year, in sharp contrast to a 14 per cent decline across the rest of the UK.

There is an increasing volume of companies raising capital at a level that suggests that they have the potential to achieve substantial scale. In 2024, there were 17 investments exceeding £10 million worth a total of £373 million; the figures were up 90 per cent in deal volume and 70 per cent in value. I say that at the outset, because these kinds of debates can often get quite negative from the Opposition side. Can we at least collaborate and join forces in congratulating those in Scotland’s start-up community on what they have achieved in those figures?

Daniel Johnson (Labour, Edinburgh Southern)

I agree that we should champion success but, to truly succeed, we also need to acknowledge that there are issues. The Deputy First Minister might quote those figures, but we know, too, that the value of Scottish deals at £10 million and above actually fell by 69 per cent in 2022-23. Likewise, we know that other measures, such as the number of patents, have been falling. Does the Deputy First Minister not need to recognise the whole picture, not just the bits that show success? We need to show the weaknesses, too.

Kate Forbes (Scottish National Party, Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch)

It is precisely because we needed to confront some of the challenges four years ago that we embarked on this journey to support Scottish entrepreneurs. The fact that the risk capital market has bucked UK-wide trends is remarkable; although there has been a decline across the UK, there has been an increase in Scotland.

That is because of the quality of the businesses. A stand-out example is the Edinburgh-based gaming firm Build a Rocket Boy, which raised more than £86 million in a single investment round. It already employs 450 people, with further growth expected. Just yesterday, Wordsmith AI, a Techscaler member, announced a $25 million series A investment achieving $100 million valuation in a record-breaking 18 months. Those are remarkable success stories.

Murdo Fraser (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?

Kate Forbes (Scottish National Party, Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch)

I will, particularly if it is to congratulate those businesses.

Murdo Fraser (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

I am very pleased to congratulate those businesses. As the cabinet secretary is talking about attracting investment, I wonder whether she will come on to talk about public sector investment. One of the most innovative sectors in the Scottish economy is defence, a sector that employs tens of thousands of people and which is growing. When is the Scottish Government going to revisit its short-sighted policy not to invest public funds in the fast-growing defence sector?

Kate Forbes (Scottish National Party, Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch)

Intentionally or otherwise, the member is distorting the Scottish Government’s position. The Scottish Government has a long-standing position of not using public money for munitions.

Members:

Oh!

Kate Forbes (Scottish National Party, Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch)

Just a minute. A matter of months ago, I announced £2 million of investment in the skills and training required, and we have also invested in defence companies with regard to diversification. If the member wants any evidence of that, I refer him to previous debates in the Parliament in which members have accused us of making those investments in defence. Both sides cannot be right.

There are straws in the wind that suggest that momentum will continue to build. Techscaler, which is where we incubate and grow Scotland’s most promising start-ups, is performing beyond expectations. Since its launch, members have raised £118 million; there is strong demand for services; and membership applications are accelerating. That suggests a stronger pipeline of high-growth founders than we had anticipated at the early stage. If we are going to be proven wrong, we will at least be proven wrong on the basis of underexpectations rather than overexpectations.

That, in turn, is attracting the involvement of new investors and scaling firms. Data from RSM Consulting shows that Scotland is the UK’s fastest-growing territory for the incorporation of new tech businesses. The same figures showed incorporations in London falling by 6 per cent.

Liam Kerr (Conservative, North East Scotland)

Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?

Kate Forbes (Scottish National Party, Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch)

I love a good debate, but I would like to finish my speech, too. I will take this intervention, however.

Liam Kerr (Conservative, North East Scotland)

I am grateful, and it will be very quick. Does the Government think that the way in which the current rates regime is structured militates against small businesses scaling up?

Kate Forbes (Scottish National Party, Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch)

No, because of the small business bonus scheme, which remains the most generous across the United Kingdom.

Daniel Johnson (Labour, Edinburgh Southern)

Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention on that point?

Kate Forbes (Scottish National Party, Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch)

I agree with Liam Kerr—and I have discussed this with Daniel Johnson in the past, too—that the rates system often does not take into account the fact that some of the most profitable businesses are the smaller ones. A start-up can be launched from a cupboard, where there are no rates, while a large and perhaps less profitable business has to pay them. I do not think that Murdo Fraser is listening to me at the moment, but I might have found a point of consensus with him—we might agree on those points. The rates system is based on an older version of the economy, in which the size of properties was linked to profitability, and that is just not the case in our new, tech-driven environment.

I see that the member has a quizzical look. I think that he agrees with my point—I was just giving him a little bit of ground there, in response to his question.

Although it is right that we celebrate successes, we acknowledge that there is more to do if we are to match the performance of our best competitors. That is why the budget made provision for a record investment of £30 million to accelerate Scotland’s emergence as a leading start-up nation, and I want to take this opportunity to highlight some of the key programmes that the funding will support.

I will begin with the implementation of “Pathways: A New Approach for Women in Entrepreneurship”, Ana Stewart and Mark Logan’s groundbreaking review of how we can support more women to start and scale businesses. Women remain significantly underrepresented in entrepreneurship; alarmingly, only 3.7 per cent of Scottish companies have an all-female founding team, and start-ups founded by women receive only 2 per cent of total investment capital. It is clear that deep-rooted societal barriers continue to limit women’s full and equal participation and “Pathways” describes that, correctly, as

“a denial of opportunity on, literally, an industrial scale.”

We have a duty to meet those challenges head on. Under the leadership of Ana Stewart, our newly appointed chief entrepreneur, we will invest up to £6 million in the report’s key recommendations, with a particular focus on pre-start support and associated early stage grant schemes. That will be a powerful package of interventions, which will create best-in-class programmes to help women start and scale businesses, offer targeted financial incentives to back the most promising ideas, and ensure that support is delivered flexibly in ways and at times that work best for them.

Our universities are another source of untapped entrepreneurial potential. They are among Scotland’s greatest national assets—hubs of innovation, creativity and enterprise. However, despite their global reputation, we have yet to unlock their full economic potential. Sweden offers a compelling example: by placing universities at the heart of its economic model and investing heavily in research and development, it now ranks second in the global innovation index and leads in generating university spin-outs.

Scotland needs to be just as ambitious. As a result, we are working closely with our universities on developing a new support package that will transform our ability to take innovative ideas from the lab bench to the business world by de-risking new technologies, accelerating commercialisation and attracting follow-on investment.

Stephen Kerr (Conservative, Central Scotland)

Will the cabinet secretary give way on that point?

Kate Forbes (Scottish National Party, Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch)

Do I have some time in hand?

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

You will get the time back, Deputy First Minister.

Stephen Kerr (Conservative, Central Scotland)

As ever, the Deputy First Minister talks a really good game. However, when she talks about universities, does she not accept that the current funding model is failing? Our university sector is in crisis. To talk this thing up as if none of that other stuff exists is a detachment from reality—which, surely, is not the hallmark of the Deputy First Minister.

Kate Forbes (Scottish National Party, Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch)

The point that I am making just now is that we have great research and development—I think that we would all accept that there is some brilliant research and development. The member has raised questions about funding models, about which there is extensive debate at the moment, but we are talking specifically about the fact that a lot of that research and development does not get commercialised. How do we take it from the point of academic research and turn it into a business? That is what Sweden does well. Yes, there is a time and a place for a broader conversation about funding models, but what we are talking about is the fact that, over the past few years, the commercialisation of that research has lagged behind.

The entrepreneurial spirit and enduring legacy of innovation extend far beyond our university campuses. Take John Walker, for example. From humble beginnings on Kilmarnock High Street in the 1800s, he built what would become the globally renowned Johnnie Walker whisky brand, which is now valued at more than $10 billion.

To create the next generation of Johnnie Walkers, we will invest in igniting entrepreneurial dynamism across all our people and communities. First, we relaunched the £700,000 ecosystem fund. Secondly, we will continue to back Scottish EDGE’s outstanding work to identify and support promising new businesses.

Thirdly, entrepreneurship is often seen as the domain of rare individuals with exceptional intelligence and drive, but that is simply not true. Research shows that quality entrepreneurial education and strong networks consistently build the mindset, skill and attitudes needed to succeed. That is why I am pleased to announce that, this year, we will relaunch the competitive entrepreneurial education fund, which will have a focus on embedding project-based entrepreneurial learning in schools across Scotland.

Finally, we are providing £141,000 to support a two-year pilot with the University of Aberdeen to train new computing science teachers, who will be able to equip young people with the skills that are vital for success in high-growth start-ups.

As the effect of our interventions in infrastructure, education and investment starts to yield momentum, our ambition is to establish Scotland as a global hub for start-up founders and investors, with a reputation akin to that presently enjoyed by Sweden and Finland. Techscaler and key policy documents such as the Logan review—or “Pathways”—and the innovation strategy have raised our profile. Indeed, Techscaler has been invited to showcase Scottish start-ups in Singapore, silicon valley, Helsinki, London, China and Japan.

At the start of this afternoon’s debate, in which political points will inevitably be made—and I do recognise a role for constructive challenge—we should take the opportunity to congratulate those who are involved in the Scottish start-up scene on what they have achieved. The businesses that are driving that scene are raising Scotland’s profile and are doing us proud on a global scale.

This September, Scotland has been selected to host the prestigious DICE conference, which will welcome senior executives from more than 100 of the world’s top gaming companies. The world is beginning to perceive Scotland differently. It is an impression that we are keen to reinforce, and I hope to work on a cross-party basis to continue to build on that work.

I move,

That the Parliament supports the Scottish Government’s ambition to establish Scotland as one of Europe’s fastest-growing start-up economies; welcomes the significant progress made towards this goal; congratulates Ana Stewart on her appointment as Scotland’s new Chief Entrepreneur, and welcomes the record investment of over £30 million to accelerate Scotland’s emergence as a leading hub for innovation, entrepreneurship and high-growth businesses.

Murdo Fraser (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

I welcome the fact that we are having another debate on the economy. We now have something of a trend of economy debates, which is a welcome departure from the previous state of affairs, when we would go for long periods without discussing Scotland’s economic performance. That is a good change on the part of the Government. Today’s focus on entrepreneurship and innovation is welcome, so I am delighted to be here.

Before I come to what needs to be done, I want to start by looking at the Scottish Government’s track record, given that it has been in power in Scotland for some 18 years. The fact is that, throughout that period, Scotland’s business start-up rate has consistently lagged behind that of the UK as a whole. According to the latest figures, which are from 2024, Scotland has a business stock of 762 businesses per 10,000 adults. The UK average is 996, so we are lagging far behind. That gap is particularly stark among the smallest businesses, where the figure is 738 per 10,000 adults for the UK but just 544 per 10,000 adults for Scotland. It is clear that we have a systemic issue whereby Scotland’s level of private sector business activity is lower than the UK average.

According to last year’s Global Entrepreneurship Monitor report for Scotland, Scotland’s total early-stage entrepreneurial activity, which is known as the TEA rate, was the lowest in the UK nations in 2023. The overall TEA rate for the UK was 10.7, Scotland’s was 9.1, Wales’s was 11.5—it was doing very well—England’s was 10.1 and Northern Ireland’s was 9.7.

On all those measures, Scotland lags behind, so we welcome any initiatives to improve the rate of entrepreneurship and the rate of business start-up, so that they at least match the levels that we see elsewhere in the UK.

We know that there are particular sectors of society in which we have issues in encouraging people to start up a business. That is particularly the case with women and members of ethnic minority groups, as the Deputy First Minister acknowledged. I pay tribute to the work that Women’s Enterprise Scotland does in offering support, particularly mentoring and the promotion of role models for women who wish to set up and be involved in business.

If the Scottish Government wants to encourage entrepreneurship and innovation, a really good starting point would be to listen to entrepreneurs, and Scotland has no more high-profile an example of a successful entrepreneur than Sir Tom Hunter. If the cabinet secretary has not read the report on how we might encourage economic growth that was published by the Hunter Foundation just a few weeks ago, I encourage her to do so.

The Hunter Foundation and Oxford Economics together highlight the success of Singapore—a small economy with few natural resources that is, in many ways, in a much less privileged position than Scotland—as an example from which we could learn lessons. Singapore is a country with a strong innovation ecosystem, significant investment in education and lifelong learning to help build a skilled and employable workforce, and a long-term strategy.

Rachael Hamilton (Conservative, Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire)

Last night, I was at Daniel Johnson’s sponsored event with the Confederation of British Industry. Many people were talking about the flexible workforce development fund, which is delivered through colleges but which did not have any funding for the previous financial years. That has become a real problem. The digital skills gap is becoming evident, which reflects the conversation within the Hunter Foundation. Does Murdo Fraser agree that we should reinstate that funding?

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

I can give you the time back, Mr Fraser.

Murdo Fraser (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

I absolutely agree with my colleague about that funding programme. The Economy and Fair Work Committee, which Mr Johnson and I both sit on, heard a lot of evidence that it was of great value to business.

I had intended to be at Mr Johnson’s CBI Scotland reception last night, but the event that I was at previously overran, and I was therefore not able to make it. I apologise to him for that.

The Hunter Foundation report highlights the importance of pro-business policies and the need to provide stable governance, a transparent legal system, low red tape and low taxation. It is not rocket science; those measures would help to provide the focus on long-term growth that Scotland needs.

Sir Tom Hunter has said:

“The status quo is completely unacceptable. Change needs to come and it needs to be radical—tinkering will only yield further decline.

The most important lever available to incentivise entrepreneurs and business is tax. Neither the Scotland or UK governments have chosen to use these levers to their full potential.”

I agree with what Sir Tom Hunter says about the UK Labour Government, especially the ruinous decision that it took to increase employer national insurance contributions—a literal tax on jobs that will damage economic growth. However, issues around tax are also under the control of the Scottish Government, and the differential rates of income tax, together with the higher rates of land and buildings transaction tax, are undoubtedly causing problems for businesses that want to recruit above-average earners.

When I talk to people in the business community and in sectors such as finance, I find it interesting that, although higher income tax continues to be an issue, increasingly, they talk about the higher levels of LBTT for those wishing to purchase larger homes as being a real and significant problem in terms of the attractiveness of Scotland to those in that higher earner category, which affects the mobility of labour.

We know from last week’s report from the Fiscal Commission that those higher tax rates are not, in fact, delivering. According to the SFC, the income tax hikes implemented by the SNP should be raising a net sum of £1.674 billion for the Scottish Government. However, the actual projected income tax net position, compared with what it would have been prior to the devolution of income tax, is just £616 million. That leaves an astonishing £1 billion gap between what Scotland’s higher income tax might have added to the Scottish budget and what it is actually projected to deliver. This is what the SFC has referred to as the “economic performance gap”, which is made up of slower aggregate earnings and employment growth in Scotland compared with the rest of the UK alongside the effects of Scottish and UK policies and taxpayer behaviour.

Richard Lochhead (Scottish National Party, Moray)

Will the member give way?

Murdo Fraser (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

If I have time, I will.

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

I can give you the time back.

Richard Lochhead (Scottish National Party, Moray)

On the topic of Scotland being an attractive nation for others to invest in or to move to, I, too, speak to many companies in Scotland, particularly in our high-growth sectors—such as the space sector, fintech and life sciences—and our universities. They tell me that their biggest concerns at the moment relate to issues such as the message that the UK is sending out about people not being welcome to come to the UK and attacks on foreign students who want to study in our universities. Does Murdo Fraser accept that those are some of the biggest concerns that the business community faces at the moment?

Murdo Fraser (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

We have debated those issues many times before in the chamber. I say gently to the minister that the United Kingdom has had record levels of inward migration over the past five years and that Scotland has not been able to attract its population share of those new migrants. That is an issue that the Scottish Government could address.

We all want to increase the levels of innovation and entrepreneurial activity in Scotland, to make up for what is a pretty dismal historical record, but that will happen only with a change of direction from the Government, particularly in areas such as tax. I want the Government to start listening to entrepreneurs such as Sir Tom Hunter and to start changing its direction. That point is made in my amendment.

I move amendment S6M-17785.3, to leave out from “supports” to end and insert:

“calls on the Scottish Government to make greater effort to support businesses and entrepreneurship in Scotland; notes concerns identified by the Fraser of Allander Institute that only 9% of Scottish businesses believe that the Scottish Government understands the business community, and that the New Deal for Business has caused this relationship to stagnate further; recognises that Scotland has a lower business birth rate and stock rate compared to the rest of the UK, which has hindered entrepreneurship; congratulates Ana Stewart on her appointment as Scotland’s new Chief Entrepreneur, but believes that a new approach is needed to deliver the high-growth economy that businesses and entrepreneurs need; welcomes the publication of Lessons from Singapore for Scotland’s Economy by the Hunter Foundation, which urges the Scottish and UK governments to stop punishing entrepreneurs, deliver a long-term growth strategy and foster a more business-friendly environment through lower taxation, and believes that entrepreneurship and innovation can be enhanced through Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party plans to drive economic growth by cutting taxes for workers and businesses.”

Daniel Johnson (Labour, Edinburgh Southern)

The reception that I hosted last night on behalf of the CBI has been referenced. A key point that I made at that was that, in order to deliver growth, we very much need a shared agenda between businesses and the private sector and Government and politicians. It is in everyone’s interests both in driving the tax revenues that we need and in delivering the public service that, ultimately, businesses depend on. Critical to that is making sure that we have high-growth, innovative countries—sorry. I meant companies, not countries; there has been too much talk of Singapore.

That is why I welcome the debate, and I thank the Government for bringing it, because it is useful to talk about the type of economy that we need and the strategic issues that we want—

Michelle Thomson (Scottish National Party, Falkirk East)

rose—

Daniel Johnson (Labour, Edinburgh Southern)

Already, clearly, I have attracted an intervention from Michelle Thomson.