Scottish Parliament, 22 May 2025

273 contributions from 66 members. The official report.

General Question Time

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Good morning. The first item of business is general question time.

Pam Gosal (Conservative, West Scotland)

To ask the Scottish Government when it plans to implement any necessary measures as a consequence of the interim update from the Equality and Human Rights Commission, following the Supreme Court’s ruling on the legal definition of “woman”. (S6O-04688)

Shirley-Anne Somerville (Scottish National Party, Dunfermline)

The Equality and Human Rights Commission has launched its consultation on updating its code of practice, which will run to 30 June 2025. We encourage organisations to engage with the consultation.

The Scottish Government is reviewing its policies, its guidance and the legislation impacted by the judgment through the cross-Government short-life working group to ensure that we are ready and prepared ahead of the updated code of practice being published. On 15 May, I met the United Kingdom Government to discuss the Supreme Court judgment and our work to prepare for the updated EHRC code of practice. The UK Government confirmed that it, too, is waiting for the EHRC’s updated code of practice before it issues any further guidance, to ensure consistency in this complex area of law. The EHRC has not objected to that approach from the Scottish Government.

Pam Gosal (Conservative, West Scotland)

As expected, the cabinet secretary has not provided a clear answer. It has been more than one month since the UK Supreme Court’s monumental judgment on the definition of the word “woman”, and almost a month since the EHRC published its interim update. Two weeks ago, the Scottish Parliament announced that it will be implementing what is in the update.

However, bodies that are still waiting for clarity from the Scottish Government include the Scottish Secondary Teachers Association and the national health service nursing unions. Sandie Peggie is calling for the Royal College of Nursing to take a stand, and prisons need clarity on how to handle transgender prisoners.

The cabinet secretary and the Scottish Government are dragging their heels, so I ask again: when will the Scottish Government implement the EHRC interim update? It is a simple question—what is the date?

Shirley-Anne Somerville (Scottish National Party, Dunfermline)

As I have already said—but I will try once again—the Scottish Government has already begun its work to review the policies, guidance and legislation that are impacted by the decision through the cross-Government short-life working group. Decisions on the parliamentary estate are for the Scottish Parliament to take. I assure members that we have begun to undertake our work.

I am disappointed that the EHRC cancelled its meeting with Scottish ministers, when we could have gone through this in detail. As I said in my recent correspondence with the EHRC, my diary remains open for further discussions on the matter. I hope that the EHRC will take up the opportunity to speak to Scottish Government ministers soon, because I am determined to ensure that the Scottish Government does the work that people expect us to do.

Ash Denham (Alba, Edinburgh Eastern)

Last week, I urged the Cabinet Secretary for Justice to revoke the unlawful gender self-identification policy that has put male offenders, including murderers and sexual torturers, in women’s prisons for more than a decade. Teachers are also crying out for lawful guidance to repair a decade of lobby-led ideology. Councils across the country are losing court cases. Female prisoners who are denied justice and their human rights may yet sue. An NHS Fife policy, which has now been exposed at an employment tribunal, is clearly unlawful. How much legal, financial and reputational damage will Scotland stomach before the Government stops dragging its feet?

Shirley-Anne Somerville (Scottish National Party, Dunfermline)

The Scottish Government has begun its work following the Supreme Court judgment, as I have said in my answers. We have detailed, in writing to the EHRC, the decisions that we have taken on how we will move forward with implementation. As I said, the EHRC chose to cancel the meeting with Scottish Government ministers when we could have discussed that.

If the EHRC has any issues with or concerns about how we are implementing the judgment, I expect it to write back. My diary remains open for direct minister-to-EHRC discussions on the issue. We have raised the issue with it and it knows our intent. I have shared that intent and discussed it with UK Government ministers, who are doing likewise.

In the meantime, we are determined to move forward with implementation. While we await the conclusion of the code of practice consultation, we will continue the work in the Government.

Maggie Chapman (Green, North East Scotland)

To ask the Scottish Government what discussions the justice secretary has had with ministerial colleagues regarding the reported findings from a survey by the Fire Brigades Union that there is support and a need for 52 weeks of full pay for firefighters on maternity leave. (S6O-04689)

Angela Constance (Scottish National Party, Almond Valley)

The pay and conditions of firefighters are negotiated on a United Kingdom-wide basis through established collective bargaining procedures. The Scottish Government is not part of those negotiations, which are rightly a matter for the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service as the employer. I know that the Minister for Victims and Community Safety discussed maternity leave when she met Scottish Fire Brigades Union officials on 15 May.

Maggie Chapman (Green, North East Scotland)

The FBU’s “Fight for 52” maternity survey report makes for stark reading. Firefighters are not able to decontaminate properly before going home to breastfeed or must stop breastfeeding early or not breastfeed at all, because there are no safe ways to continue doing so after returning to work. Women firefighters in Scotland also get paid more than £16,000 less in maternity pay than those in many services south of the border. Will the cabinet secretary commit to putting in place 52 weeks of full pay for firefighters on maternity leave as part of the SFRS’s strategic service review programme?

Angela Constance (Scottish National Party, Almond Valley)

Maternity pay, like firefighter pay and terms and conditions, is negotiated on a UK-wide basis under well-established procedures for collective bargaining, which I know that the FBU and the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service remain committed to.

The member has raised an important matter. The health and wellbeing of staff, along with their terms and conditions, are crucial matters for the employer. I am very much aware of the calls that the FBU made on 7 May. For information, the SFRS’s maternity leave is currently 26 weeks on full pay and 13 weeks on statutory maternity pay, and there are some other flexibilities. I should say that the SFRS went beyond the collective agreement by extending it to support staff.

The issue is obviously very live for the FBU. It is important to say that there are particular operational procedures for pregnant and breastfeeding firefighters, particularly as they cannot participate in operational duties because of risks of contamination.

Michelle Thomson (Scottish National Party, Falkirk East)

To ask the Scottish Government to what extent it considers workers in the health and social care sector to be skilled. (S6O-04690)

Maree Todd (Scottish National Party, Caithness, Sutherland and Ross)

The Scottish Government greatly values all in our health and social care sector and recognises that they all have the skills that are required to undertake their individual roles in the workforce. Their knowledge, compassion and dedication are essential to delivering safe and effective care, and their contribution is vital to our public services.

I agree with the Coalition of Care and Support Providers in Scotland and I reject the notion that our social care staff in particular are low-skilled workers. That term is demeaning and disrespectful, given that they provide critical and complex care to some of the most vulnerable people in Scotland.

Michelle Thomson (Scottish National Party, Falkirk East)

I absolutely echo the sentiment that the minister has expressed regarding the quite demeaning and utterly disrespectful characterisation by the Prime Minister of social care work as being low skilled. Nigel Farage’s Labour Party policy of ending skilled visa routes for social care workers is short-sighted and irresponsible and will have a disproportionate impact on Scotland, where social care vacancies are rising and we face distinct demographic challenges. To that end, what further representation will the Scottish Government make to the United Kingdom Government regarding the development of a separate pathway for overseas workers to move to Scotland and contribute to our society?

Maree Todd (Scottish National Party, Caithness, Sutherland and Ross)

A key strand of the Scottish Government’s migration strategy is to engage with the UK Government and to highlight the urgent need for an immigration system that meets Scotland’s demographic and economic needs. The Scottish Government issued comprehensive, evidence-based proposals to the Home Office during the development of its immigration white paper, including proposals for tailored migration routes to Scotland, such as a rural visa pilot and a Scottish graduate visa. None of those proposals was included in the white paper. We continue to engage with stakeholders and will ensure that their requirements are reflected in on-going engagement with the UK Government.

Sandesh Gulhane (Conservative, Glasgow)

I declare my interest as a practising general practitioner in the national health service. During last week’s ministerial statement on the care sector, I made the point that we should be training more people here to work in our care sector rather than relying on immigration. The minister, Maree Todd, responded:

“To suggest that there are in the villages and communities that I represent young people who are fit, healthy and able to train in the skilled jobs that social care requires is a very challenging point to make.”—[Official Report, 14 May 2025; c 27.]

I found that response to show a shocking attitude from the minister and to be a disservice to young people, who, I believe, are capable and smart enough to be trained, despite what the minister thinks. I ask again why the Government is not willing to look at training some of our 125,000 unemployed Scots, who are desperate for jobs in our care sector.

Maree Todd (Scottish National Party, Caithness, Sutherland and Ross)

I make the point again that Sandesh Gulhane has just illustrated—that he has absolutely no understanding of the rural communities that I represent nor of the challenges that we face with respect to our demography. All over Scotland, the population is growing only because of immigration but, if we look closely at the rural areas in the Highlands, the challenge is immense. I am surrounded by schools that are closing. The ageing demographic is hitting us hard and it is hitting us first.

It is simply outrageous for Dr Gulhane to suggest that there are lots and lots of young people in the communities that I represent who are hanging around unemployed and doing nothing. It is also outrageous for him to suggest that anyone—just anyone—can be trained to work in social care. That is completely untrue. If he were to engage with the social care sector, he would understand that better.

Ross Greer (Green, West Scotland)

To ask the Scottish Government, regarding its work to support faith and belief communities, what plans it has to join the Buddhist community in Scotland in celebrating the 90th birthday of His Holiness the Dalai Lama on 6 July. (S6O-04691)

Kaukab Stewart (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Kelvin)

The Scottish Government greatly values the rich contributions of all faith and belief communities in Scotland, including the Buddhist community. On the significant occasion of the Dalai Lama’s 90th birthday, and on behalf of the Scottish Government, I offer my warmest greetings and best wishes to the Dalai Lama and the Buddhist community in Scotland. I acknowledge their role in promoting peace, compassion and cultural diversity throughout the country.

Ross Greer (Green, West Scotland)

I am very grateful to the minister for her remarks on behalf of the Government, and I know that the Buddhist community will be as well.

The most important issue for Buddhists across Scotland and the world who are celebrating the Dalai Lama’s 90th birthday is the matter of his reincarnation. When the Panchen Lama died, 30 years ago this month, the Chinese Government immediately kidnapped the six-year-old boy who had been chosen as his successor and the boy’s family. It then installed its own false Panchen Lama in his place. Buddhists fear that the Chinese Government will attempt the same with the next Dalai Lama. The Scottish Government enjoys positive relations with the leaders of many faith groups, and His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama has made a number of visits to Scotland. Does the minister agree that it is for Tibetan Buddhists to choose the 15th Dalai Lama, in line with their traditions and teachings, and that the Scottish Government would recognise only a Dalai Lama who was appointed on those terms?

Kaukab Stewart (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Kelvin)

I thank Ross Greer for bringing those issues to the chamber. I am aware that he travelled to India in April and met the Dalai Lama. The Scottish Government supports the principles of religious freedom and human rights. It believes that the Tibetan Buddhist community should have the right to choose the next Dalai Lama without external interference.

Carol Mochan (Labour, South Scotland)

To ask the Scottish Government what recent action it has taken to improve the prevention and monitoring of malnutrition and dehydration. (S6O-04692)

Neil Gray (Scottish National Party, Airdrie and Shotts)

The Scottish Government is committed to preventing malnutrition and dehydration, and we have established a working group to develop recommendations for prevention, early detection and early intervention. We will shortly publish a 10-year population health framework, which, alongside recommendations from the malnutrition working group, will inform a new diet and healthy weight implementation plan. The Scottish Government is also supporting Health Improvement Scotland to review the 2014 food, fluid and nutritional care standards, which aim to ensure that everyone receiving care gets safe, effective and person-centred nutritional care.

Carol Mochan (Labour, South Scotland)

Malnutrition is believed to be on the increase across Scotland, particularly in our vulnerable communities. As well as that being totally unacceptable, it places significant pressures and costs on our healthcare system. Many families, including in my South Scotland region, face high costs, poor food availability and significant inequalities, all of which limit their access to nutritious foods.

The cabinet secretary referred to the malnutrition short-life working group. It was commissioned to recommend a framework for the prevention of malnutrition and dehydration more than two years ago, but we have had no detail to date. When will the framework be published?

Neil Gray (Scottish National Party, Airdrie and Shotts)

As I said in response to Carol Mochan’s first question, we will be developing a diet and healthy weight implementation plan, which will be informed by the working group and by the population health framework, which is coming imminently.

There is a significant amount of work going on to support people in communities to prevent the issues that Carol Mochan has rightly raised as being of concern at the moment. That includes work on our five family payments: the Scottish child payment, best start foods and the three best start grants, which, together, could be worth more than £10,000 by the time an eligible child turns six. We also have healthy start vitamins, which contain vitamin D and are provided free to all pregnant women throughout their pregnancies.

We are taking a number of steps to address the poverty-related drivers of poor nutrition and malnutrition that Carol Mochan speaks of, as well as responding with the framework, which will come imminently.

Marie McNair (Scottish National Party, Clydebank and Milngavie)

To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide further details of its initial assessment of the potential impact of the United Kingdom Government’s immigration plans on Scotland’s care sector. (S6O-04693)

Maree Todd (Scottish National Party, Caithness, Sutherland and Ross)

Our initial assessment is damning. Plans to end the international recruitment of care workers are short-sighted and will be devastating for the care sector in Scotland, which relies on international talent, particularly in rural and island communities. The number of health and care worker visa applications has already fallen since the 2023 restrictions on bringing dependants, and Labour now wants to reduce that number further.

Workers from overseas have filled and will continue to fill vital roles in the sector. The UK Government’s immigration white paper completely fails to account for Scotland’s distinct demographic needs, demonstrating why Scotland needs a tailored approach to migration.

Marie McNair (Scottish National Party, Clydebank and Milngavie)

The chief executive of Scottish Care, Donald Macaskill, has described the move as

“deeply concerning and disturbing for the Scottish care sector.”

He is right. The UK Government’s efforts to go to the right of Farage on immigration policy will be extremely damaging to the care sector. Does the minister agree that this is further evidence that Scotland needs the full powers of independence, to maximise the capacity and skills of our social care workforce?

Maree Todd (Scottish National Party, Caithness, Sutherland and Ross)

I agree whole-heartedly. Scottish Care estimates that there are 15,000 to 20,000 international care workers in Scotland. The UK Government’s plans to end the recruitment of care workers are short-sighted and will be devastating for the care sector in Scotland, which relies on international talent—in particular, as I have emphasised, in rural and island communities. Migrants make a huge contribution to Scotland. We need a migration system that meets Scotland’s distinct needs, yet the white paper completely fails to account for them.

Sharon Dowey (Conservative, South Scotland)

To ask the Scottish Government what steps it is taking to support dental practices. (S6O-04694)

Maree Todd (Scottish National Party, Caithness, Sutherland and Ross)

Our significant investment in national health service dental payment reform in November 2023 provided the sector with a stable platform from which to move forward. Official statistics show that NHS dental practices and dental services are performing well under the new system, with more than 4.1 million courses of treatment delivered to patients in 2024.

We have been clear that payment reform must be only the first step in ensuring the sustainability of our dental services, which is why our programme for government sets out a number of actions to improve the NHS dental workforce now and in the future.

Sharon Dowey (Conservative, South Scotland)

The Scottish National Party promised to abolish NHS dental charges. However, patients in Ayrshire cannot register with NHS practices and are being forced to go private. I contacted 24 dental practices in the area, and not a single one is currently accepting new NHS patients.

What is the point of having free dental care if people cannot access it? What is the minister doing to fix that? Has the Government increased the number of funded university places for dentistry? What concrete steps is the Government taking to ensure that patients can access the free, high-quality NHS dentistry that they were promised?

Maree Todd (Scottish National Party, Caithness, Sutherland and Ross)

The programme for government sets out key actions to improve the NHS dental workforce, backed by £3 million of funding in 2025-26. We will expand domestic dental student numbers by 7 per cent from September 2025, supporting our annual dental workforce pipeline. We also plan to launch an innovative new training package that will support international dentists to join the NHS Scotland workforce, and we will work with NHS boards to refine the financial incentives to support dentists to move to work in more rural areas—those “golden hellos” that we have mentioned several times in the chamber.

First Minister’s Question Time

Russell Findlay (Conservative, West Scotland)

Last Saturday, 16-year-old Kayden Moy was stabbed to death on Irvine beach. Less than 24 hours earlier, on Portobello beach, a 17-year-old was, allegedly, stabbed. Police Scotland says that the number of serious assaults committed by teenagers has risen by 600 per cent in the past five years. Two teenagers died and 11 were injured during a spate of knife incidents involving youths in the past two months.

Young people do not feel safe. The system does not protect them. What does John Swinney have to say to parents who tell me that they are terrified every time their son or daughter leaves the house? (S6F-04090)

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Before I call the First Minister, I remind members that, in relation to this question and to question 6, there are a number of active cases in Scotland relating to knife crime and those are sub judice. For that reason, and because of the age of many of those involved, I would be grateful if members would not refer to details of any criminal proceedings in relation to those incidents.

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

First, I express my sympathy to the family of Kayden Moy. It is a tragedy that they are having to come to terms with, and one incident is one incident too many. The disorder and the violence at Irvine beach and in Portobello were totally unacceptable. As you have indicated, Presiding Officer, Police Scotland is pursuing the relevant incidents.

There are three approaches that the Government is taking in relation to knife crime. First, we have education programmes on the danger and the unacceptability of carrying a knife and taking part in violence. Secondly, there is effective punishment when offences are committed. Thirdly, there is sustained school and community engagement with young people to make sure that we create responsible citizens in Scotland. Most of Scotland’s young people are responsible citizens.

We have seen a sustained fall in the levels of knife crime in the past 15 years, but I repeat that one incident is one incident too many, and we will act to eradicate such incidents.

Russell Findlay (Conservative, West Scotland)

Young people do not feel safe because of the sickening rise in youth violence, but it is not happening in a vacuum. It can be linked directly to the policies and actions of the Government. The Scottish National Party has systematically weakened the justice system, especially in youth justice. It seeks to make excuses for those who commit harm, and those who commit crimes are told that there are no consequences for their actions, which means that there is no longer any meaningful deterrent. That inevitably fuels youth violence.

That misguided thinking is at the heart of SNP policy making. Surely John Swinney can see that it is not working and it is time to take a tougher approach.

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

As I indicated in my earlier answer, there are three elements to the approach that the Government is taking. Great importance is attached to education programmes on the danger and the unacceptability of carrying a knife and being involved in violence.

The mentors in violence prevention programme, which is directed through Education Scotland, is delivered in all 32 local authority areas, and young people are involved in that work. We support the work of the Scottish Violence Reduction Unit in proactively engaging with young people to avoid incidents of violence. That is in addition to the work that we do to support Medics Against Violence to engage young people in the work that YouthLink Scotland does to deliver the no knives, better lives training to hundreds of practitioners and young people around the country.

Proactive work is being done to ensure that the issues that Russell Findlay has raised are addressed, but there is also firmness in the justice system when incidents take place. It remains open to prosecutors to prosecute a young person if they have committed a serious offence. Our sustained focus on prevention and early intervention is a core part of our strategy, but steps can also be taken in the criminal justice system to bring people to justice. I expect the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service and the judicial system to consider all those issues in addressing any cases that emerge.

Russell Findlay (Conservative, West Scotland)

It seems that John Swinney will not accept that his Government bears any responsibility for rising youth violence, but let us look at the SNP’s policies. It will not exclude disruptive and dangerous pupils from schools. Official guidelines prevent teachers from being able to instil basic classroom discipline.

John Swinney talks of firmness in the justice system, but the SNP passed a law banning under-18s from being sent to prison, even if they commit murder, and it decided that more young criminals should not be prosecuted in court. Instead, they are sent to children’s panels, where their interests are the priority and victims are ignored. There are also the perverse under-25 sentencing guideline, which prevents criminals—adults, by any definition—from being jailed.

That approach is weak, it is reckless and it is costing lives. Is it not time for John Swinney to rethink those harmful policies?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

I must correct Mr Findlay on what he has said to the Parliament today. The sentencing guideline for young people, which has been developed by the Scottish Sentencing Council, makes it clear that all sentencing options, including imprisonment, remain open to the court. It is absolutely vital that that is understood by the public.

Our approach must be about education, early intervention and prevention. That is why we invest so much in measures such as the work of the Violence Reduction Unit and the mentors in violence prevention programme. We undertake that work, and, over a 15-year period, we have seen a sustained fall in knife crime in our society.

However, I come back to what I said in my first answer. One incident—one tragedy—is one too many, but it is vital that it is understood, particularly by those who might perpetrate such offences, that it remains a possibility that imprisonment can be imposed. Parliament should properly understand the requirements of the law.

Russell Findlay (Conservative, West Scotland)

If John Swinney will not listen to me, perhaps he will listen to the parents of victims. A mum whose teenage daughter was subjected to a horrific assault, which was filmed, said:

“My girl cannot return to school or leave home. She lives in fear while her attacker faces no punishment. The system is broken.”

The mum of a teenage boy who was subjected to a homophobic attack, which was filmed—his attackers faced no consequences—said:

“We cannot come to terms with what is happening in Scotland. Serious crime is being downgraded. The clear message to us and our son is that people can do what they want to him because he just doesn’t matter enough.”

A mum who was too fearful to include details of her child’s ordeal said:

“Many of the bad kids are in gangs and know that there are zero consequences for their actions. Good kids are paying a heavy price. Who is going to stand up and do something that will actually make an impact?”

Parents want a return to discipline in schools and deterrence in the justice system, so why will John Swinney not listen to them?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

I fear that Russell Findlay has not been listening to my answers, in which I have set out that a combination of proactive and preventative work is undertaken by a number of very successful organisations, which, since 2008-09, has resulted in a 69 per cent decrease in emergency hospital admissions because of assault with a sharp object.

That is the result of us tackling knife crime in our society. That prevention work is having an effect. Scotland is a safer country today than it has been in the past, but I return to my point that one incident is one incident too many.

The work on prevention is absolutely vital, but the public cannot look at this exchange and believe that there are no consequences for carrying a knife or for carrying out an incident. I repeat: the Scottish Sentencing Council guideline for young people indicates that all sentencing options, including imprisonment, remain open to the court. That is what the law says and that is what the guideline says. People need to understand the consequences of carrying a knife and committing an offence. There is a risk of imprisonment. I encourage people to follow the advice issued on Wednesday by Police Scotland, which was that under no circumstances should young people carry knives in our society. It is dangerous, it is damaging and young people should not do it.

Anas Sarwar (Labour, Glasgow)

Like millions across Scotland, I was devastated to hear of the fatal stabbing of 16-year-old Kayden Moy over the weekend. Kayden was a beloved son from East Kilbride whose young life, which was full of promise, was stolen in an instant. Tragically, his is not the first such death, and many parents fear that, due to a culture of violence that is going unchallenged, it will not be the last. Just one day before Kayden’s death, another young man was stabbed, this time at Portobello.

The statistics are damning. The number of young people being caught with knives is rising, with a 15 per cent increase among 11 to 15-year-olds in only five years. Many parents are rightly worried. They fear that their children are not safe and are asking how this Government has allowed the situation to get so out of control.

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

As I indicated in my answers to Mr Findlay, the Government takes a combination of measures in relation to these issues.

First, we are proactively taking forward education programmes on the danger and unacceptability of carrying a knife or taking part in violence. That advice was reinforced by Assistant Chief Constable Tim Mairs in his public statement on Wednesday. Secondly, effective punishment is in place when offences are committed. Thirdly, there is sustained school and community engagement with young people to ensure that we create responsible citizens in our society.

As I indicated, I share the devastation about the loss of young lives as a consequence of any violence in our society. Mr Sarwar and I share that devastation. I assure him that the Government will take forward a combination of early intervention and education measures, but we will also resort to punishment, if required, when offences have been committed. That is the approach that the Government will take and which it will work with Police Scotland to deliver in our communities.

Anas Sarwar (Labour, Glasgow)

John Swinney ignores the wider systemic challenges. The crisis did not emerge overnight; it has been years in the making. Since the Scottish National Party created Police Scotland, we have lost 800 officers. Since 2017, the SNP has cut 730 officers from local divisions and shut countless local police stations.

We are now hearing horrifying reports of children—primary school children—being caught carrying knives. That is not a coincidence. The SNP has cut the number of police officers and shut police stations. It has decimated youth work services and has so badly mismanaged our justice system that 500 police officers are stuck in courtrooms every day, with 90 per cent of them not even giving evidence. The SNP has broken our national health service to the point where police officers are stuck in accident and emergency departments escorting patients when they should be on the streets, fighting crime. Is what we are seeing now not a direct consequence of SNP decisions and failures?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

In what I say to Mr Sarwar I will, inevitably, rely on material that I have already used in my answers to Russell Findlay. Since 2008-09—which precedes the creation of Police Scotland—there has been a 69 per cent decrease in emergency hospital admissions due to assault with a sharp object. Over a long period—during which we undertook the reform of the police service and the creation of Police Scotland—Scottish society has become safer.

We have recorded crime data that shows that there has been a 55 per cent fall in attempted murder and serious assault, with homicides remaining at a near-record low in our society today. In addition to that recorded crime data, we also have the latest Scottish crime and justice survey, which captures incidents that are not reported to the police as well as those that are. That reveals that crime has fallen by 53 per cent since 2008-09.

I totally understand the points that Mr Sarwar puts to me. However—and I go back to my point that even one incident is absolutely unacceptable and devastating, so I do not diminish that at all—the evidence indicates that, overall, Scottish society is safer today than it was before we created Police Scotland. That is the outcome that has been achieved as a consequence of the reform that the Government put in place to create a single police service that serves every community in our country.

Anas Sarwar (Labour, Glasgow)

I think that John Swinney should get out and speak to some of the parents directly and hear what they feel about SNP justice.

There are no more powerful words on this serious issue than those of mum Vicky Donald, and I think that it is important that we end on her words. Her daughter was just 13 when she was viciously assaulted on the way to school. Today, in the Daily Record , Vicky has written an open letter to John Swinney, saying:

“this is not just a tragedy. It is a failure. A failure of the systems, structures and leadership meant to protect our children ... This isn’t about reputation or reports. It’s about reality. It‘s about life and death.”

She asks:

“When will the Scottish Government stand up and say enough is enough?”

She asks:

“When will you stop hiding behind procedures and start putting real consequences in place for violent behaviour among youth?”

She asks:

“When will early intervention become the priority, and not just a buzzword?”

She demands:

“Stop waiting for more funerals. Do something now.”

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

Mr Sarwar invites me to speak to the parents. That is, of course, what I have done, because in January I convened a gathering, at the instigation of Vicky Donald, who came to it, with leaders of all political parties. Pauline McNeill attended on behalf of the Scottish Labour Party. Colleagues from all parties were there, and I welcome that engagement around the table. I have sat with parents and listened very directly to their feedback.

I have seen the letter from Vicky Donald and I have replied to her this morning. One of the points that I made in the letter is that, although this is of no comfort to victims of violence and their families, knife crime has fallen and the number of homicide victims aged 13 to 19 years has decreased by 79 per cent. That is some of the progress that I think has come about because of the prevention work that the Government has been taking forward.

When it comes to that prevention work, we have a number of different elements. Education Scotland delivers the mentors in violence prevention programme, which is delivered in all local authority areas in the country. I welcome the engagement of schools and local authorities. I have seen that programme in action in my constituency, and it is powerful and emphatic. The young people themselves become the advocates for violence prevention.

We also have the work of Medics Against Violence, which engages with young people in youth clubs on the consequences of violence, and YouthLink Scotland takes the no knives, better lives training to hundreds of practitioners.

We are also supporting the outstanding work, which is internationally renowned, of the Scottish Violence Reduction Unit to expand its reach across Scotland, from Glasgow, Dundee and Edinburgh to now Ayrshire.

I say that in the hope of reassuring Mr Sarwar, members of the public and Vicky Donald that the Government is very focused on the issue.

I reiterate the point that I made to Mr Findlay a moment ago. There are punishments available that the courts can decide to apply, and they can involve imprisonment, so nobody should be under any illusion that there are no consequences to being involved in the unacceptable actions of knife crime or violence.

That will be the sustained approach that the Government takes forward, and I will be very happy to engage, as I engaged with all political parties in January, on what we can collectively consider to address the issue. There will be a follow-up discussion on these questions in June, which the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs will convene. In the light of these issues, I will attend that discussion as well, and I invite other colleagues and members of the youth work sector to be involved in that, too, to make sure that we leave no stone unturned in addressing the issues, because one case is one case too many.

Lorna Slater (Green, Lothian)

The Climate Change Committee report that was published this week shows that Scotland’s carbon emissions are on a disastrous trajectory. The report tells us that

“immediate action at pace and scale”

is needed to cut emissions so that Scotland can meet its new carbon budgets and build a path to net zero that creates good jobs and saves people money. That means that we need a proper plan for warmer homes that are cheaper to heat, and real investment to make public transport available and affordable to get people out of their cars. The First Minister often tells us how proud he is of balancing Scotland’s financial budget every year, but what immediate actions will he take to balance Scotland’s first carbon budget?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

I welcome the advice that we have received from the Climate Change Committee, which the Government will carefully consider before setting out our proposed carbon budgets in secondary legislation, in due course.

I assure Lorna Slater that the Government is absolutely committed to meeting its target of net zero emissions by 2045. We recently put a number of vital climate measures in the budget, which I was pleased that the Green Party was able to support. We have added to that another measure to make public transport more affordable, which is the abolishment of peak rail fares from 1 September. I hope that that is taken as an example of good faith regarding what the Government is trying to do to prioritise action on climate.

Lorna Slater (Green, Lothian)

The First Minister’s Government has spent the past year ripping up policies that are designed to tackle the climate emergency. The First Minister knows that delaying action on climate actually costs more in the long run. Analysis from Global Witness shows that climate damage is already costing Scottish households £3,000 every year on average, while multinational fossil fuel giants are still raking in billions of pounds of profit. Unless polluters pay, communities will be worse off and the super-rich will keep getting richer. So that we can invest now—not only to save money later but to create green jobs and opportunities that will benefit Scotland—will the First Minister support policies to tax polluters?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

As I said in my earlier answer, the Government will announce its plans to respond to the Climate Change Committee in due course. I very much welcome its contribution.

We are implementing a range of measures. For example, we made a commitment to create 6,000 public charge points for electric vehicles, which helps with the shift to electric vehicles, and we exceeded that target two years early.

Yesterday, along with the Secretary of State for Scotland, I had the pleasure to be at the announcement of a regional selective assistance grant—which goes alongside investment from the Scottish National Investment Bank and the National Wealth Fund of the United Kingdom Government—for the green aircraft engine developer ZeroAvia, at the Advanced Manufacturing Innovation District in Renfrewshire. That is a splendid example of investment in new technology that reduces emissions, and it can help to create 350 jobs in Renfrewshire, which is a step in the right direction.

Willie Coffey (Scottish National Party, Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley)

To ask the First Minister what assessment the Scottish Government has made, regarding any implications for its work to grow Scotland’s economy, of analysis from Future Economy Scotland indicating that average earnings in Scotland are £15,000 less per year than they would have been if wages had not flatlined since the financial crisis. (S6F-04115)

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

Scotland’s economy has been robust despite significant economic challenges. Since 2007, Scotland’s gross domestic product per person has, overall, increased by more than the United Kingdom’s has. Our labour market remains resilient. Our programme for government includes measures to support economic security and growth, but it is right to recognise the effect on Scottish living standards of UK Government austerity and damaging decisions on issues such as migration and Brexit, which have created the circumstances that are accounted for by the Future Economy Scotland report.

Willie Coffey (Scottish National Party, Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley)

Future Economy Scotland’s report lays bare the sheer cost of the union and Westminster economic mismanagement. That is a vast sum for Scots, who could have put that money towards saving for their first homes, keeping those homes warm, feeding their families or saving for retirement. Does the First Minister agree that that is a clear indication that the union, and Westminster austerity, which is now embraced by Labour, are not working for Scotland? Will he outline what his Government is doing to combat that?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

It is beyond question that austerity and Brexit have reduced the living standards of people in Scotland. That is an inescapable reality. Of course, all of that was presided over, ushered in, nurtured and coaxed into reality by the Conservative Government. Colossal damage has been done to individuals and their livelihoods.

The Scottish Government is taking forward a number of measures to tackle the cost of living challenges that people face in Scotland. Council tax is about 30 per cent lower on average than it is in England, and water bills are 20 per cent lower. We have free prescriptions in Scotland. Families who send their children to Scottish universities do not pay tuition fees, and we have just added to that the abolition of peak rail fares for good.

The Scottish Government is acting within our powers and responsibilities to tackle the very issues that Mr Coffey puts to me, but I am absolutely certain that Scotland’s position would be enhanced if we had the full powers of independence, which would enable us to deliver a better economic future, just as many of our neighbours are able to do.

Graham Simpson (Conservative, Central Scotland)

To ask the First Minister what the Scottish Government’s response is to the Hunter Foundation report, “Lessons from Singapore for Scotland’s Economy”. (S6F-04113)

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

I welcome the report from the Hunter Foundation and share the aim to boost economic growth and secure a prosperous future for the next generation of Scots. I particularly agree with Sir Tom Hunter’s comments that we in Scotland need a separate immigration policy that suits our circumstances and can help to boost our workforce. I hope that the United Kingdom Government will take those calls into consideration.

Graham Simpson (Conservative, Central Scotland)

The First Minister will no doubt have been delighted that Sir Tom Hunter has hinted that he, the First Minister, is paid too little, but Sir Tom cannot get everything right. He wants radical action to reverse what he calls Scotland’s “managed decline”. He references falling standards in education for the past two decades, some of the worst health outcomes in Europe and a demographic ticking time bomb.

The report also highlights how Scotland continues to punish the entrepreneurial community with high tax rates. We have a top tax rate of 48 per cent, compared with just 24 per cent in booming Singapore. Does the First Minister not recognise that lower, simpler taxes can boost Government revenues, inspire innovation and lead to extra investment?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

An area of policy that I have been closely associated with throughout my parliamentary career is that of entrepreneurial activity. By anyone’s estimation, Scotland now has a supportive innovation and entrepreneurship system. The Techscaler programme that the Deputy First Minister leads is generating significant economic benefits and wealth in Scotland.

The key challenge is how we generate sufficient economic activity to support our investment in people and public services. Part of the correct approach in Scotland is to ensure that we raise the revenue to invest in our public services. The position that Mr Simpson’s party’s front-bench members advocate is to reduce public expenditure by £1 billion. The Conservatives often shout at me about it, but what they do not shout at me is how they will reduce public expenditure without harming the people of Scotland. They do not tell us the hard realities. If the Conservative Party is prepared to share that detail with the public, I will be very pleased to listen to it. However, what is clear to me is that the Scottish Government is taking the right steps to raise revenue, invest in our public services and improve outcomes for the people of Scotland.

Colin Beattie (Scottish National Party, Midlothian North and Musselburgh)

The majority of people already pay less tax in Scotland than they would elsewhere in the UK. By asking those with the broadest shoulders to contribute a bit more, we can fund vital services that benefit us all. Can the First Minister say more on how our progressive taxation system helps to provide Scots with the most comprehensive social contract anywhere in the UK?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

It is a matter of fact that more than half of Scottish taxpayers continue to pay less income tax in this financial year—[ Interruption .]

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Let us hear the First Minister.

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

—than they would if they lived elsewhere in the United Kingdom. [ Interruption .]

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

First Minister, please sit down. I ask members who are shouting from their seats to desist.

First Minister, please continue.

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

In order that members can hear properly what I say, I repeat that it is a fact that more than half of Scottish taxpayers continue to pay less income tax in 2025-26 than they would if they lived elsewhere in the United Kingdom.

According to the Scottish Fiscal Commission, the policy choices that we have made will raise up to an additional £1.7 billion in this financial year. That will help to pay for the best cost of living package of support in the United Kingdom, which includes free prescriptions, an expansive early learning and childcare offer, free eye care tests, free bus travel for 2.3 million people and, of course, free higher education.

If the Conservatives want to get rid of the overwhelming majority of what I have just set out, that is up to them, but I am not going to follow their advice.

Foysol Choudhury (Labour, Lothian)

To ask the First Minister, in light of recent reported incidents, how the Scottish Government is working to prevent knife crime. (S6F-04110)

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

As I indicated in my earlier answers, my heartfelt sympathies go out to all those affected by the appalling knife crime incidents in Irvine and Portobello over the past weekend. Since 2023, we have invested more than £6 million in our violence prevention framework, which supports a range of targeted prevention and early intervention activity in schools and hospitals, and across communities, as well as work with partners to tackle violence and its harms.

Foysol Choudhury (Labour, Lothian)

Following the tragic death of a 16-year-old boy from East Kilbride last week, three young people have now been killed in stabbing incidents in the past year. Since March, there have been 11 stabbings involving young people, including multiple instances in Portobello. Such incidents are destroying lives and traumatising communities, and the problem seems to be getting worse. Last year, the police seized 248 weapons in schools. Will the First Minister intervene? Will he request that the Scottish Violence Reduction Unit incentivise its efforts? Will he say that enough is enough? Will his Government deliver youth work and policing that reach out to young people to help to prevent further incidents?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

Those are the actions that we are taking. As I indicated in my earlier answer to Mr Sarwar, the Scottish Violence Reduction Unit is internationally acknowledged to have deployed very significant and effective interventions aimed at reducing the level of knife crime in our society. I would not for a moment want members to consider that I do not accept, in any way, the seriousness and significance of these issues. One incident is one incident too many. We have tried and tested methods of addressing the issue of knife crime, and we must make sure that those methods remain effective in all that we do, to ensure that young people and communities are protected.

Collette Stevenson (Scottish National Party, East Kilbride)

As the First Minister is aware, Kayden Moy from East Kilbride tragically lost his life at the weekend, and the community there is reeling. Investigations are on-going, and the police must be given the space to carry out their work. I ask people who have information that might be relevant to the investigation, including anyone who was at Irvine beach on Saturday, to contact the police.

Will the First Minister confirm how the programme for government will focus resources on the justice system and on diverting young people from antisocial behaviour and offending, so that we can prevent future tragedies? Does he agree that the work of the no knives, better lives programme and the Medics Against Violence organisation is crucial in preventing violence in the first place?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

I agree with Collette Stevenson about the methods that are being used to address the issue. We need to make sure that they remain effective. We must be open to challenging the content of those programmes, to ensure that they are effective. As I have referred to, very clear words were issued by Assistant Chief Constable Tim Mairs on 20 May, when he said:

“The key message to children and young people is they shouldn’t be carrying knives—it is absolutely the wrong thing to do.”

He also said:

“the tragic consequences at the weekend demonstrate how horrific, in a second, the fact that you’re carrying a knife with you can be, and how it can end lives immediately. The clear message is do not carry weapons—do not carry knives.”

That is at the heart of the work of the violence prevention framework for Scotland, the cashback for communities programme and the other measures that emphasise that no one should carry a knife.

Miles Briggs (Conservative, Lothian)

I have listened to what the First Minister has said in a number of his answers today, but he needs to acknowledge the real and concerning trend that we are seeing in Scotland. The number of violent crimes among young people in Edinburgh has doubled in one year alone. Last year, 529 alleged offences were reported to the Scottish Children’s Reporter Administration, with children as young as eight having been reported for alleged violent incidents here, in the capital. According to Police Scotland, a disturbing trend of gang culture is also developing. What impact does the First Minister believe significant cuts to youth services and centres have on the issue, and why is that trend not being acknowledged today?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

As I have indicated in a number of my answers, the Government is investing in a sustained number of programmes through YouthLink Scotland, the violence reduction unit and the mentors in the violence reduction programme, to address those issues. They are serious and significant issues, but, in the longer term, there has been a significant fall in knife crime. We have to ensure that the programmes that we have in place remain effective and impactful in addressing the circumstances that Mr Briggs puts to me.

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

We move to general and constituency supplementary questions.

Karen Adam (Scottish National Party, Banffshire and Buchan Coast)

Once again, Scotland’s fishers have been utterly betrayed by a Westminster Government in London—this time by Labour and its EU-UK deal. How will the Scottish Government continue to support fishers, particularly in my constituency of Banffshire and Buchan Coast, and will the First Minister give an assurance that his Government will always put Scotland’s fisheries first?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

Not for the first time, the fishing communities of Scotland have been judged to be expendable—this time by a Labour Government and the previous time by a Conservative Government. The people of Scotland know that, whether it is a Labour Government or a Tory Government, the UK Government will sell out the Scottish fishing industry. My Government will support the industry, and we will do what we can to assist the communities to overcome the obstacles that are put in their way by the deals made by Labour and Conservative Governments. Of course, the only way in which the fishing industry in Scotland will be properly protected is with the powers of independence.

Liam Kerr (Conservative, North East Scotland)

North East Scotland College calculates that it has been underfunded by around £30 million over the past decade. That has resulted in fewer places for domestic students and threatens the north-east’s economic future. The college says that the funding system is

“significantly disadvantaging the people and employers of the north-east”.

The Scottish Funding Council’s recent funding allocation includes a substantial rural premium for nine colleges but not for NESCol. Will the First Minister urgently contact the SFC about restoring the rurality premium before it is too late?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

As Mr Kerr will know, the Scottish Funding Council operates at arm’s length from Government. That is what the law requires. The Government makes an allocation to the funding council, which has seen a 2 per cent uplift in the resource allocation for colleges in this year’s budget. It is then for the funding council to take such decisions independently of Government, which is what the law requires.

Here we are again, with a Conservative member coming to the chamber and pressing me about the public finances. Graham Simpson, Liam Kerr’s colleague, who is sitting two seats along from him, just asked me to cut taxes by £1 billion, and now Liam Kerr wants me to increase public expenditure. That demonstrates the incoherence of the Conservative Party—the incoherence between two members sitting just two seats along from each other on the Conservative benches. They are utterly and completely incoherent.

Carol Mochan (Labour, South Scotland)

Is the First Minister aware that Stagecoach west Scotland’s drivers are the lowest paid of any Stagecoach bus drivers across the United Kingdom? The drivers have simply tried to stand up for themselves, but the company has tried to reduce their leave and cancelled all existing leave over a planned strike period, which has caused much distress to everyone. That is just one of the many tactics that Stagecoach is using to prevent ordinary workers from having any say in their conditions. Does the First Minister agree that those drivers deserve a fair pay deal?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

The services that the bus drivers provide are critical for the mobility of the constituents that Carol Mochan represents. I want to avoid any possible disruption to the delivery of transport services, including bus services, in the area. I encourage all parties to work together to find an agreement that will avoid the inconvenience for members of the public that Carol Mochan has raised and enable services to operate as planned.

Bill Kidd (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Anniesland)

A new report from Scottish Care shows the immense contribution of immigration to Scotland’s care sector. Will the First Minister respond to concerns raised in the report that Westminster’s approach to migration could end up collapsing the care sector in Scotland? Will he commit his Government to rejecting the disgraceful anti-immigration rhetoric of Nigel Farage and those who seem determined to imitate him?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

On Tuesday, I convened a discussion involving representatives of a broad range of sectors in Scotland across social care, the national health service, food and drink, engineering and construction and education to discuss the United Kingdom Government’s white paper on immigration. It was absolutely chilling to hear the anxiety that was expressed by those in different sectors in Scotland about the issues arising from the fact that we have a shrinking working-age population, which we need migration to boost.

Scottish Care gave me a briefing paper and it cites a survey of its members indicating that 26 per cent, or 11,294, of the total social care workforce are international workers. How the United Kingdom Government believes that we will be able to operate social care services with the type of hostile approach that is contained in its white paper is beyond me.

There needs to be serious engagement about the implications of the white paper, because it will be devastating for countless sectors of the Scottish economy. The Scottish Government will not, in any way, shape or form, engage in the type of rhetoric that the Prime Minister engaged in a week past Monday. His rhetoric was absolutely appalling, and it represented the wrong policy position. We need migration in order to boost our working-age population. That will be the sustained position of the Scottish Government.

Jackie Baillie (Labour, Dumbarton)

I want to raise the tragic case of Isla Sneddon, who died at the age of 17 after a six-month battle with cancer. She first went to her general practitioner in 2022 with lumps in her breast. In June 2024, the GP made an urgent referral to the breast clinic for a biopsy, but it was downgraded to routine status. By the time that she was diagnosed, she had a sarcoma in the lining of her heart and the cancer had spread from her breast to her lungs and lymph nodes. If she had been an adult, the biopsy would have been urgent, but it was downgraded because she was under 18. Will the First Minister ensure that there is explicit guidance that suspicion of cancer in children and young people must be treated with the same urgency as cases in adults?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

I am very sorry to hear the details that Jackie Baillie has shared with me about Isla Sneddon, and I express my sympathies to her family. Jackie Baillie makes a compelling case. I will take the issue away and raise it with the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care. We will pursue the issue of clinical guidance, because I understand the significance of the point that Jackie Baillie has raised.

John Mason (Independent, Glasgow Shettleston)

Does the First Minister agree that, over the weekend, we saw deplorable scenes to do with football, not least in the Glasgow Cross area, which Kaukab Stewart and I share? Does he have any suggestions about how we can prevent that in the future, for example by ensuring that the clubs take more responsibility?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

There were unacceptable incidents at the weekend. I completely understand the desire of football fans to celebrate the achievements and the performance of their teams. However, incidents such as the one that took place at Tannadice, where a chair was thrown at an Aberdeen Football Club player—it seems that that emerged from the Aberdeen supporters’ stands—or the disorder that took place at Glasgow Cross, on the boundary of Mr Mason’s constituency, are totally unacceptable.

Celebrations are fine, but they should not inconvenience other people, and they should not harm other people in any way, shape or form. We will work closely with Police Scotland and the football authorities, and the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs will shortly hold a discussion with key partners to discuss those issues and ensure that we challenge everybody, including the clubs, to do everything possible to ensure that football is safe for supporters, and that we minimise disruption for local communities.

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

That concludes First Minister’s question time. There will be a short suspension to allow those leaving the chamber and the gallery to do so.

Portfolio Question Time

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Good afternoon. The first item of business this afternoon is portfolio question time and the portfolio is net zero, energy and transport.

Sue Webber (Conservative, Lothian)

To ask the Scottish Government for what reason it decided to make a direct award of the Clyde and Hebrides ferry services contract to CalMac. (S6O-04696)

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

This is a unique opportunity to change the emphasis from having a commercially driven arrangement to having a public-focused service that is wholly directed at meeting the important and particular needs of island communities. A direct award will enable Scottish ministers to have greater influence on strategic objectives and on significant decisions relating to the provision of the Clyde and Hebrides ferry services. That will provide the necessary flexibility to drive improvements and adapt to the evolving needs of our island communities.

Sue Webber (Conservative, Lothian)

CalMac services have been pushed to the limit and, as we head into the summer months, islanders are being left at the whim of an ageing fleet thanks to last week’s announcement that the issue of the MV Glen Rosa will not be resolved until next year.

Now that a direct award has been made, what guarantees has the cabinet secretary received from CalMac, Caledonian Maritime Assets Ltd and Ferguson Marine that the new contract will not result in the same poor level of service as the current one?

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

We have announced that it is our preferred intention that the contract will be awarded in October, and we are working to deliver that.

The most recent full-year statistics show that, out of 170,000 scheduled sailings between October 2023 and September 2024, only 3.4 per cent were cancelled due to technical and other reasons, such as weather-related issues.

I had a meeting this morning with CMAL regarding the delivery of the four new vessels that we expect in the next year. Important work is also being conducted on ports and harbours. That investment will be supplemented and supported by key performance indicators in the contract. I also met this morning with the chair of the ferries community board, and the board is actively involved in ensuring that the service delivery improvements that I spoke about will be realised for the benefit of islanders.

Kenneth Gibson (Scottish National Party, Cunninghame North)

As the cabinet secretary knows, concerns have been raised by islanders and others who are frustrated that CalMac has not fulfilled all the terms of the current contract. I was pleased to hear that there will be more customer focus in the next contract, but what confidence does the cabinet secretary have and what steps are in place to ensure that CalMac will, indeed, be more customer focused in the forthcoming contract and in the months and years ahead?

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

The technical compliance that I spoke about when I made the initial announcement will enable strategic oversight.

Regarding delivery, instead of simply working to a contract that includes variations that can be used for flexibility in services, there will be a culture of continuous improvement in operations and of accountability to the KPIs that I referred to. Those are being developed, in conjunction with communities and trade unions, to drive forward the improvement culture that everyone expects.

Claire Baker (Labour, Mid Scotland and Fife)

I welcome the direct award to CalMac, which was the right thing to do. Yesterday, we debated how we can empower our island communities, and part of that is ensuring that they are better represented in the organisations that deliver the services that they rely on. Has the cabinet secretary given active consideration to having direct representation of islanders on the CalMac and CMAL boards?

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

Both boards already have islanders on them, and the next round of CalMac board appointments, which is about to commence, will specifically include islander representation.

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Question 2 was not lodged.

Alexander Burnett (Conservative, Aberdeenshire West)

To ask the Scottish Government to what extent current projects will be included when making a cumulative impact assessment for a section 36 application under the Electricity Act 1989. (S6O-04698)

Alasdair Allan (Scottish National Party, Na h-Eileanan an Iar)

When new energy developments come forward, applications are subject to site-specific assessments by the decision maker. The cumulative effects of developments are an important consideration in the decision-making process, alongside potential impacts on communities, nature and cultural heritage. When an application is ready to be determined, Scottish ministers consider all relevant material that is available to them before making any decision. The merits of each proposal are considered on a case-by-case basis, and a careful balance must be struck.

Alexander Burnett (Conservative, Aberdeenshire West)

Most people would assume that a reporter would consider all the available information. However, for the public inquiry into the proposed Hill of Fare wind farm, the cumulative impact assessment will consider only other projects that were consented or the subject of a full planning application at 10 August 2023. That is more than two years before the reporter will hold her inquiry. It will fail to take into account applications that are known about but are in the earlier stages of planning and consultation, as well as any other energy infrastructure projects.

We know that the planning system is outdated, but given that, this week, the minister welcomed the fact that councils are developing renewable energy mapping tools, is it not right that all available information be considered?

Alasdair Allan (Scottish National Party, Na h-Eileanan an Iar)

The member will not be too surprised to hear me say that I cannot comment on the specific case that he mentions. However, it is the case that, in the process, the decision makers consider all the available evidence. I realise that the member’s point is about forthcoming proposals. In reaching a decision, ministers will determine applications in accordance with legislative requirements and relevant policy, and any cumulative impact assessment that is made is limited to considering existing and already approved developments. However, as I have indicated, all representations that are made in any community about an application are considered when a decision is made.

Audrey Nicoll (Scottish National Party, Aberdeen South and North Kincardine)

To ask the Scottish Government what discussions the net zero secretary has had with ministerial colleagues regarding how the recently announced proof of concept fund will encourage an innovative just transition in the North East Scotland region. (S6O-04699)

Gillian Martin (Scottish National Party, Aberdeenshire East)

We will launch a pilot proof of concept fund this year to support university researchers, including those from the north-east, to develop their innovative ideas and technologies and to bridge the gap between groundbreaking research and commercial applications. Through the fund, we hope to increase the pipeline of projects with commercial potential and support economic development. Meanwhile, we are also working in partnership with the United Kingdom Government and the North East of Scotland Regional Economic Partnership to deliver its investment zone, which will help to accelerate the realisation of its regional economic strategy.

Audrey Nicoll (Scottish National Party, Aberdeen South and North Kincardine)

It is vital that we work to support innovation at all levels, particularly when we are furthering our investment and ambitions to deliver our green energy transition. In that regard, my constituency of Aberdeen South and North Kincardine and the wider north-east host a wealth of innovators and inventors. Can the cabinet secretary say more about how the Scottish Government is supporting young tech innovators and entrepreneurs across Scotland?

Gillian Martin (Scottish National Party, Aberdeenshire East)

Our national innovation strategy sets out actions to utilise innovation as a driver to grow the economy and create jobs. We are actively supporting entrepreneurs and young tech innovators through several initiatives including our Techscaler programme, which is designed to create, develop and scale tech start-ups. We are supporting the young EDGE—encouraging dynamic growth entrepreneurs—awards to recognise and reward exceptional young talent in the tech sector. We also work with universities and colleges to deliver the entrepreneurial campus blueprint, ensuring that more young people develop entrepreneurial skills, and we are providing support through the ecosystem fund, which enables young entrepreneurs to access vital resources, knowledge and connections.

Douglas Lumsden (Conservative, North East Scotland)

Today, the Just Transition Commission published its latest damning report, which highlights how this devolved Government is failing workers in the north-east. The report’s message is clear: this Government is not delivering a just transition for Aberdeen and the north-east. The SNP simply does not care about the hard-working oil and gas workers in the north-east. My constituents do not need another report to tell them what they already know. They need action, and they need it now. Has the cabinet secretary read the report? What is her response, and what is she going to do about it?

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Please respond to the substantive question, cabinet secretary.

Gillian Martin (Scottish National Party, Aberdeenshire East)

I have read the report and, indeed, I welcome all the interventions that the Just Transition Commission made. I work very closely with the Just Transition Commission.

I cannot really answer Douglas Lumsden’s question based on the original question that was put to me by Audrey Nicoll, about the proof of concept fund, but I want to give clarity to the Parliament that I take everything that the Just Transition Commission says very seriously and I regularly work with it on how we can deliver a just transition in the north-east.

James Dornan (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Cathcart)

To ask the Scottish Government what discussions it has had with the United Kingdom Government regarding progress on the recommendations in the final report by the social tariff working group. (S6O-04700)

Alasdair Allan (Scottish National Party, Na h-Eileanan an Iar)

The Scottish Government’s working group, which included energy suppliers and consumer fuel poverty and disability groups, called for a social tariff to cut fuel bills for Scots in its final report.

In March, we wrote to the UK Government to share the final report and press for the urgent introduction of a targeted discount on bills to address unaffordable energy prices at source. We are in regular dialogue on energy affordability and have been fully involved in the UK Government’s recently convened data working group, which is critical to delivering automatic and targeted energy bill support that is based on a sophisticated set of metrics. The powers to deliver the scheme are reserved, but we remain committed to working with the UK Government to make urgent progress on that critical policy.

James Dornan (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Cathcart)

Does the minister agree that the targeting of support is urgently needed to ensure that consumers are protected against high costs at source and can afford all their energy needs, and that, although the report recommends a robust scheme, the reality is that the UK Government is ultimately responsible in that policy area and must urgently deliver a unit rate discount with the level of discount proportionate to need?

Alasdair Allan (Scottish National Party, Na h-Eileanan an Iar)

I whole-heartedly agree. We have worked hard and collaboratively to present a compelling way forward, and we have achieved a rare degree of consensus on a social tariff to bring down energy bills.

A key principle of our report is that support needs to be targeted, as the member indicated, and based on a meaningful set of metrics, including, for example, a combination of household income, medical need and rurality.

I have been clear with the UK Government that its current approach of relying on the warm home discount scheme provides too little help for those who are most in need and it does not provide it when they need it. Again, therefore, I call on the UK Government to deliver a new and additional scheme that provides a unit rate discount with the level of discount that is proportionate to need.

Ben Macpherson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Northern and Leith)

To ask the Scottish Government how it is working with partners to support the port of Leith’s contribution to Scotland’s net zero ambitions. (S6O-04701)

Gillian Martin (Scottish National Party, Aberdeenshire East)

As it is part of the Forth green freeport, the port of Leith will benefit from green port incentives, which include reliefs on non-domestic rates, increased capital allowances, reduced national insurance costs, land and buildings transaction tax reliefs and up to £25 million-worth of seed capital and long-term funding provided by the Scottish Government, which will allow local authorities to retain relevant non-domestic rates to reinvest in the programme.

We have also committed to invest up to £500 million over five years to leverage private investment in the infrastructure and manufacturing facilities that are critical to the growth of the offshore wind sector. We are taking a team Scotland approach when engaging with potential inward investors, including Vestas, to ensure that we maximise those opportunities.

Ben Macpherson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Northern and Leith)

I thank the cabinet secretary for that detailed answer, and for of all the investment and effort that is going into realising the potential that she set out.

As has been mentioned, the developing green economic activity at the port of Leith will be significant, which is why, in recent weeks, I hosted a round-table event with employers, local educators and the Minister for Higher and Further Education; and Minister for Veterans, to help to facilitate further collaboration to nurture the workforce that will be required. I will follow up my question with a letter to the Scottish Government. One of the suggestions that was made on the evening was to utilise some of ScotWind’s revenues to help to fund skills development initiatives in the area. Will ministers consider that as part of the budget formation in the months ahead, to prepare the workforce that we will need in the coming years?

Gillian Martin (Scottish National Party, Aberdeenshire East)

I am glad that Graeme Dey was able to meet Forth Ports and Mr Macpherson on 12 May. The 2025-26 budget utilised more than £300 million of ScotWind funding to be targeted at activities with long-lasting benefits for the people of Scotland. We will continue to invest ScotWind revenues in a range of projects.

As Mr Macpherson outlined, the Forth green freeport has a skills plan, which is funded by businesses that benefit from the tax incentives at the site that I mentioned. The Government provides non-domestic rates relief to green ports, which can also be invested in skills and workforce development.

Mr Macpherson will also know that we are providing targeted funding to colleges over the next year, as part of the budget that was approved by Parliament, to establish an offshore wind skills programme, which will help to create region-specific training hubs for offshore wind skills. That is on top of funding that has already been committed to a just transition for the energy sector.

Sarah Boyack (Labour, Lothian)

I welcome the cabinet secretary’s reference to the importance of renewables manufacturing at the port of Leith, and the need to have a joined-up approach to delivery and to invest in skills and training. However, will she acknowledge the need to tackle the significant problem of planning delays, which the renewables sector regularly raises with us? Projects can be in planning for more than two years. That affects not just low-carbon projects; it affects all the supply chains and jobs that come with them.

Gillian Martin (Scottish National Party, Aberdeenshire East)

I point to the energy consents unit in the Scottish Government. We have been tasked by the industry to vastly reduce the amount of time that is associated with consents. We have invested in doubling the capacity of personnel in the unit, which has been met with a great deal of praise from the sector. We are committed to delivering on consents within 12 months.

Ariane Burgess (Green, Highlands and Islands)

To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on its plans to improve transport infrastructure in the Highlands and Islands, particularly in response to the reported request from Highland Council for additional support to run its six ferry services. (S6O-04702)

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

The Scottish Government remains committed to continuing to improve the transport infrastructure in the Highlands and Islands, for which we have direct responsibility. We are introducing new vessels to our ferry networks and are delivering further upgrades to key trunk roads and public transport infrastructure. We have invested more than £2 billion in our ferry services since 2007, and we have outlined plans to invest around £700 million in a five-year plan to improve ferry infrastructure. That includes the delivery of more new major ferries and the small vessel replacement programme.

We are also supporting the four local authorities that operate their own ferry services—we have increased funding from £41.7 million in 2023-24 to around £70 million in 2025-26. That includes the full £1.521 million requested by Highland Council for this year.

Ariane Burgess (Green, Highlands and Islands)

I welcome the funding for replacing the Corran ferry, which I had called for in the chamber. However, the rising costs of maintaining the ageing fleet, the Tory legacy of inflation and the Labour United Kingdom Government’s decision to increase employer national insurance contributions have put considerable pressure on the sustainability of those services. Will the cabinet secretary commit to asking Transport Scotland to boost Highland Council’s funding this year?

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

The funding for local authority ferries, which I outlined and which has increased from £41.7 million to £70 million this year, acknowledges some of the increasing pressures. Transport Scotland does not fund Highland Council directly. Local authority funding is determined at a local government level; the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government is actively involved in that. As I outlined in my initial answer, we have been very responsive to the request from Highland Council.

Emma Roddick (Scottish National Party, Highlands and Islands)

Will the cabinet secretary outline what improvements to transport infrastructure and provision have been brought about since the Scottish National Party took office, what has been achieved as a result and what engagement the Government has had with Highland Council since the announcement that it was to receive £28 million for the Corran ferry?

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

Since the announcement of the arrangements and funding agreements for the new Corran ferry, Scottish Government and Transport Scotland officials have been engaging with Highland Council on a timeline for delivery of the new vessel and on potential procurement routes. It will be for Highland Council to consider and manage the appropriate route to overall delivery.

The member asked what the Scottish Government has achieved for the Highlands and Islands. I highlight that there have been 10 major trunk road upgrades. We have also opened new rail stations including one at Inverness airport. Our recent investment has enabled the lengthening of platforms at some Highland stations, which this year has allowed longer trains to be deployed on the Highland main line.

In addition, some 57,000 young people aged under 22 across the Highlands and Islands benefit from free bus travel. We have invested £2 billion in ferry services since 2007. The road equivalent tariff saves passengers around £25 million a year. Northern isles residents receive a 30 per cent discount on ferry fares. We have also recently extended free ferry travel for under-22s in local authority-run Highland communities.

Jamie Halcro Johnston (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

An update on the dualling of the A9, which was meant to be completed this year, was noticeably absent from the cabinet secretary’s answer.

I have repeatedly highlighted the growing crisis in our ferries fleet, including vessels that are operated by our councils. In Highland, Orkney and Shetland, there is an increasingly urgent need for a serious replacement plan, the cost of which could run into billions of pounds. Without passing the buck to local councils, which the cabinet secretary knows fine well are reliant on funding from the Scottish Government, what does she estimate to be the cost of any replacement scheme over the next 10 years? Is she comfortable with progress on delivering any replacement scheme, given that there is still no timetable, cost projection or funding commitment in place?

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

The member will be aware that there are separate ferry replacement task forces for Shetland and Orkney, both of which are chaired by the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government. I regularly meet members of the respective councils, in which I am supported by the Minister for Agriculture and Connectivity, Jim Fairlie.

The member will also be aware that, in the recent budget that he did not vote for, £10 million was provided for each of those councils to do exactly the work that he says needs to be done to identify the scale of the issue. It is not just about ferry replacements; it can include other types of connectivity. For example, a number of people in the island communities that I am personally supportive of consider tunnels to be a potential alternative for the longer term.

However, the member is right to highlight the need to identify the scale of what is required. That is why it was important for the Scottish Government to provide funding to help with the scoping work that he has asked for.

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

As the cabinet secretary has alluded to, in the recent budget—and thanks to the Scottish Liberal Democrats—additional funding was put in place to support the pathway towards procurement of new ferries. However, in the isles that rely on those lifeline routes there is growing frustration at the lack of a timetable for the replacement process to get under way. Will the cabinet secretary advise when the task force is next due to meet? Will she give an indication of the likely timeframe for that process?

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

As I outlined, the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government chairs that task force, and I am not a member of it. However, I will ask for the information that Mr McArthur requires to be relayed to him in written form.

Evelyn Tweed (Scottish National Party, Stirling)

To ask the Scottish Government what engagement it has had with stakeholders regarding safe parking and road use in popular rural areas, including Loch Lomond and the Trossachs national park. (S6O-04703)

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

In Scotland, the majority of car parks and roads in rural areas, including Loch Lomond and the Trossachs, are managed locally by local authorities or private car park owners. It is a matter for each local authority to engage with stakeholders to promote the safe use of roads and car parks in its area and to adhere to any legislation that applies.

On the specific issues that are affecting the Loch Lomond and the Trossachs national park, the Scottish Government is a member of the national park safe recovery action group, which was formed in 2020 in response to increased visitor levels following the Covid pandemic. The group’s primary objective is to collaboratively manage visitor-related pressures across the national park.

Evelyn Tweed (Scottish National Party, Stirling)

Temporary clearways on trunk roads in popular rural locations such as those near the A84 and A82 play an important role in keeping our roads safe. What consideration has the Scottish Government made of whether such clearways should be made permanent?

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

Several permanent clearway orders for popular tourist locations on the trunk road network are under consideration, including for the locations that the member has mentioned. Those orders will proceed through the relevant legislative processes. The areas under consideration include the A84 at Loch Lubnaig and the A82 at the Falls of Falloch. Clearways might have a role to play there, but those determinations must follow the relevant legislative processes.

Tall Ships Races 2025 (Aberdeen)

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

The next item of business is a members’ business debate on motion S6M-17330, in the name of Kevin Stewart, on Aberdeen welcoming the tall ships races. The debate will be concluded without any question being put.

I call Jackie Dunbar to open the debate on behalf of Kevin Stewart.

Motion debated,

That the Parliament welcomes the return of the Tall Ships Races to Aberdeen from 19 to 22 July 2025; recognises that the event, which will see over 50 tall ships and over 1,500 international crew arriving in the harbour in the Aberdeen Central constituency, sees the ships coming back to the Granite City for the first time in 28 years, and will be the largest fleet of the 2025 races; understands that there will be a plethora of entertainment for visitors and residents alike to partake in while the ships are berthed in Aberdeen, including public access to the ships themselves, parades, cultural events, open-air concerts, headlined by Deacon Blue, Kaiser Chiefs, Ministry of Sound Classical, Tide Lines and Callum Bowie, and much more; believes that this has the potential to be the biggest event in Aberdeen in a generation, with the opportunity to create a lasting legacy in the city, and hopes that it is a tremendous success that brings a lot of joy and excitement to all those who join in with the festivities.

Jackie Dunbar (Scottish National Party, Aberdeen Donside)

As you can see, Presiding Officer, I am not Kevin Stewart. He has asked me to lead his debate and to pass on his apologies for not being here today, due to his illness. I am sure that the chamber will join me in wishing him a speedy recovery.

The following are his words, and I am happy to use them, although I think that some of them will be a bit of a tongue twister.

It is with immense pride that I welcome the tall ships race to Aberdeen. For Aberdeen, the arrival of the tall ships is more than just a visit; it is a homecoming. The homecoming of the tall ships coincides with the 200th anniversary of the Aberdeen Line, which was founded by George Thompson in 1825. Aberdeen’s shipyards were the home of the Aberdeen clippers, the fastest sailing ships ever built.

The first Aberdeen clipper, and the first ship to sport the famous “Aberdeen bow”, was the Scottish Maid, which was designed and built in 1839. Her revolutionary bow was so extraordinary that the ship was built back to front, with the Aberdeen bow hidden under a fake normal bow until the day that she was launched. The new bow proved its worth, and the iconic design of the Aberdeen tea clipper was born.

Over the next 30 years, Aberdeen tea clippers reigned supreme as the fastest ships to sail the seas. Speed records fell with every new ship that was launched until the greatest of all the Aberdeen tea clippers, the Thermopylae, was launched in 1868 from Aberdeen’s Walter Hood & Co shipyard. Her reign as the fastest ship on the seas would not go unchallenged, however, and just a year later her great rival, the north-east-designed Cutty Sark, was launched.

That set the stage for the greatest tall ship race in history—the great tea clipper race of 1872. It was a race between Inverbervie design and Aberdonian workmanship. The two ships set off together from Shanghai on 18 June, and the Cutty Sark steadily built up a lead of 400 miles. However, like her namesake nightdress, the Cutty Sark cut a little too close to the wind, and she broke her rudder in a storm while passing between Java and Sumatra. Determined not to be defeated, the crew of the Cutty Sark cobbled together a new rudder from scrap iron and set off in pursuit of the Thermopylae. However, despite the efforts of the Cutty Sark’s crew, they could not pass the Thermopylae, which arrived back in London first and retained her crown as the fastest ship in the world.

The great battle of the Aberdeen tea clippers rightly stands as the greatest tall ship race in history, and it was in the spirit of that race that today’s tall ships races event began. Although today’s event is not a commercial venture for tea, it carries forward the same spirit of competition, adventure and the pursuit of excellence.

To those who are unfamiliar with it, I can say that the tall ships races is not just a spectacle but an international event, organised by Sail Training International, that is designed to promote youth development and international friendship through sail training. It brings together magnificent vessels from across the globe, crewed by young folk, many of whom are experiencing life at sea for the first time. That includes young folk from Aberdeen who serve as crew aboard the racing ships and learn seamanship, teamwork and resilience, while forging bonds that transcend borders and cultures. This year, one such young person is Kevin Stewart’s constituent Noah Tait, who will be competing aboard the Dutch schooner, the Gulden Leeuw, in the race across the North Sea from Aberdeen and to Kristiansand.

Several of the larger sailing ships also serve as naval training vessels, with cadets on board from as far afield as Peru and Oman taking part. Sadly, the perils of the sea remain today, and my thoughts are with the families of the two young navy cadets of the Mexican naval training ship the Cuauhtémoc who died when their ship hit the Brooklyn Bridge as she set sail across the Atlantic to join the tall ships races.

This year’s races will begin at Le Havre and have four stages, beginning at Dunkirk, Aberdeen, Kristiansand and Esbjerg. The tall ships are due to arrive in Aberdeen on 19 July. They will spend four days there, where there will be a packed schedule of events during the long weekend to celebrate the tall ships and Aberdeen’s own maritime heritage.

The Aberdeen sea cadets will be on hand to showcase the heritage of the Aberdeen clippers, but a wide array of other events is also planned. They include TechFest, which will focus on Aberdeen’s engineering heritage with hands-on science, technology, engineering and mathematics activities. North East Scotland College and the Scottish maritime academy will be in attendance to promote maritime careers as well as their popular trainee deckhand course and officer of the watch cadetship programme. There will also be daily quayside music concerts, with Scottish musical talent from Deacon Blue and Tide Lines. With those events and the tall ships themselves, the race will prove to be a true spectacle.

Beyond the spectacle, the tall ships races embody timeless values: the importance of teamwork, the discipline of seamanship and the thrill of adventure. The ships are living museums that preserve the skills and artistry of a bygone era, while simultaneously inspiring the next generation of seafarers and global citizens. They remind us, even in our digital age, of the enduring magic in the power of wind and sail, and the irreplaceable value of hands-on experience and shared endeavour.

As the tall ships prepare to grace our waters, I urge everyone to embrace this incredible opportunity and come down to Aberdeen harbour to witness those magnificent vessels up close, feel the spray of the sea and let the spirit of the Cutty Sark, the Thermopylae and the great tea clipper race transport them to a time of grand adventure.

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

Thank you, Ms Dunbar. We move to the open debate. I call Liam Kerr to be followed by Audrey Nicoll.

Liam Kerr (Conservative, North East Scotland)

I was delighted that Kevin Stewart lodged a motion on welcoming the tall ships to Aberdeen. I thank Jackie Dunbar for stepping in. It was no surprise to me that Kevin did so, as, although he and I differ on some—perhaps many—political issues, what he and I share, along with the other north-east cross-party representatives who attended a briefing at the Aberdeen maritime museum in April and other north-east members who are here today, is a deep desire to do what is best for Aberdeen and the north-east.

The return to Aberdeen of the tall ships races between 19 and 22 July—only eight weeks from now—for the first time in 28 years is definitely a great thing for us in the north-east. As Jackie Dunbar said, what an opportunity we have here. Much credit needs to be given to the host partners—Aberdeen City Council, Aberdeen Inspired and Port of Aberdeen. We also need to acknowledge the support of VisitScotland and the funding of the United Kingdom Government, because we know that Aberdeen is a great place to live, work and visit.

So many attractions already exist there, such as the maritime museum, which I mentioned earlier, and the art gallery, where visitors can see the “Monsters of the Deep: Science Fact or Fiction?” exhibition, which opened last weekend—note that it has extended hours during the tall ships races. There are the shows at the music hall in His Majesty’s Theatre. On that note, let people not forget that we had our own independent Belmont Cinema, which will rise again if viewers support it at www.belmontcinema.co.uk. The campaign to save the Aberdeen Arts Centre has also just launched, and viewers can help to support it in its time of need and save it by visiting www.aberdeenartscentre.com.

It is fair to say that people do not realise quite how good Aberdeen is and how much there is there. The 2025 tall ships races in Aberdeen from 19 July will be an amazing event in and of itself, but it will also act to showcase the best of Aberdeen and the north-east.

As we heard from Jackie Dunbar, almost 50 tall ships are coming. We are getting the Red Arrows, quayside concerts and a march. There will be 60 business and charity stalls in place at the north harbour and the north end of Union street, and there will be hundreds of opportunities for young people aged 15 to 25 to get on board through the Sail Training International sail trainee programme.

The projected 400,000 visitors will not only provide a welcome boost to our local economy; they will also showcase that Aberdeen is not merely a great energy city but a tourism hub for itself and the wider shire, with the attractions in the city. What a legacy that event could leave, which would be a fitting tribute to the 300 volunteers who have been recruited to support the event, 60 per cent of whom live in the city, around 60 per cent of whom are female and a quarter of whom are under 40.

The fact is that there is too much to tell about the tall ships races returning to Aberdeen from 19 to 22 July, but I say to people who are watching that they can find out all about being a sail trainee, volunteering, the concerts, the stalls, the ships themselves, the event programme and how they can get involved, simply by visiting www.tallshipsaberdeen.com. I cannot wait to be one of the 400,000 visitors.

Audrey Nicoll (Scottish National Party, Aberdeen South and North Kincardine)

I am very pleased that my colleague Kevin Stewart secured a debate that celebrates and highlights the return of the tall ships races to Aberdeen. As we have heard, the tall ships races are a wonderful opportunity for the city, the wider north-east and Scotland, and I believe that parliamentary recognition of them is fitting. I extend my thanks to Kevin Stewart for the debate—I wish him well—and I thank Jackie Dunbar for stepping in today.

As we have heard, in 57 days, the tall ships races will visit Aberdeen’s shores for the third time between 19 and 22 July. During that time, the Port of Aberdeen and a whole host of other businesses and organisations will welcome at least 50 tall ships that will be visiting from all over the world.

Like my colleague Jackie Dunbar, I extend my sympathies to the families of the two cadets who lost their lives earlier this week in the tragic incident involving a Mexican tall ship that was due to participate in the event.

As part of the tall ships races, 240 young people living in Aberdeen or Aberdeenshire will be offered the life-changing experience of joining the crew of a tall ship that will sail from Dunkirk to Aberdeen or from Aberdeen to Kristiansand. I am sure that the rest of the chamber will join me in wishing good luck to the young cadets who will be embarking on their first voyage.

As we have heard, the tall ships races will bring a significant economic opportunity. Aberdeen and Grampian Chamber of Commerce anticipates that it will inject tens of millions of pounds into the city and region’s economy. To capitalise on that opportunity, local business and charities will participate in activities such as Charlie House’s “Curated on the Quayside” initiative, which will allow the north-east to further showcase local culture and produce in a wonderful open-air market event that will be held across the city, including in the area of the harbour.

In addition to the economic benefits, the tall ships races provide a platform to showcase Scottish and Doric culture. Local musicians, artwork, and vibrant street performances will be displayed throughout the city. Aberdeen’s history and maritime contributions will also be highlighted in free informative events. As we have heard, Aberdeen art gallery has a stunning range of tall ship-themed souvenirs that have been created by local creators and makers that reflects the maritime history and sheer spectacle of the tall ships. We have also heard that there will be a programme of open-air gigs, which will see our very own Deacon Blue, Kaiser Chiefs and Tide Lines entertain visitors.

It certainly goes without saying that this year’s tall ships races will greatly benefit Aberdeen city and the surrounding region. With that in mind, I reflect on the impact of the previous tall ships races in Aberdeen. As we have heard, the tall ships races first visited Aberdeen in 1991. Crowds of more than 300,000 flocked to the granite city to witness the great sailing ships and to enjoy a variety of performances. Aberdeen welcomed the tall ships races for a second time in 1997, coinciding with the bicentenary of the renowned Aberdeen Line, a shipping company known for its excellence and efficiency. That event proved to be even more popular, with more than 500,000 people attending. The races are a cherished memory for all those who attended, as well as for the city itself. As a result, they have left a truly lasting legacy.

In closing, I congratulate everyone involved in the organisation and running of the 2025 tall ships races in Aberdeen, including all the volunteers who will support the event. With their hard work, the tall ships races will remain a cherished part of Aberdeen’s legacy. I again thank Kevin Stewart for securing the debate and I invite anyone and everyone to visit the tall ships races in July.

Michael Marra (Labour, North East Scotland)

I thank Kevin Stewart for lodging the debate and Jackie Dunbar for standing in and transporting us to a time of grand adventure. I am not sure that my nerves would have coped with the story of the tea clipper race had it been related in Kevin Stewart’s theatrical élan, so perhaps we have all been saved by Jackie Dunbar’s intervention.

For nearly 50 years, the tall ships races have traversed ports across these islands and all over Europe. The races even involved a transatlantic voyage in 1984, reaching as far as Quebec. This is the third year—and the first time this century—that Aberdeen has been involved. With around 50 tall ships and 1,500 crew members arriving in Aberdeen for four days in July, the event will bring a carnival atmosphere to the city, with concerts, parades and even a display from the Red Arrows. I am sure that it is set to be a fantastic time in the granite city. There is an opportunity to board the great ships and learn more about their long history—some of the ships are as old as 125 years.

It will be a huge boost for businesses in the city, with tens of thousands of spectators expected to attend. That will be welcome for many hospitality and retail businesses, in particular, given the challenges that those sectors have faced in recent years following the pandemic and the Scottish National Party Government’s failure to pass on rates relief from the UK Labour Government.

Events such as this, the Commonwealth games and the Tour de France grand départ, which I know the minister has been involved with, are all good for Scotland and the people of Scotland. They have the potential to showcase our country at its best and to give a much-needed boost to our economy. Liam Kerr laid out well some of the many attractions in Aberdeen of which visitors are likely to be able to afford themselves. There is an opportunity for great cultural exchange and dialogue around such events and to see some of the world’s great sportsmen and women at the top of their game.

It is vitally important that, when such events are organised, logistics are in place to minimise negative disruption for local residents and to maximise enjoyment for all visitors. The use of park and ride facilities for the event has been welcomed by my constituents. Those will be at four locations across the city to help to reduce congestion in the city centre, which will be welcome.

The ships are to be berthed at the port of Aberdeen, which is so central to the economy of the city and the North East Scotland region, which I have the pleasure of representing. Aberdeen accounts for around 43 per cent of vessel traffic in Scotland; it is Scotland’s busiest port. Since being elected in 2021, I have worked closely with colleagues at the Port of Aberdeen port authority and its chief executive, Bob Sanguinetti. As a trust port, it is run by a board for the benefit of stakeholders. With all the profits being reinvested to safeguard and improve the port, it is a civic benefit to the city and the wider community.

The port has a significant role in the offshore energy industry—although a significant proportion of the port’s revenue comes from oil and gas, which will be the case for decades to come—and it is working towards its goal of becoming the UK’s first net zero port by 2040. It is one of the fundamental components of the north-east, providing thousands of jobs and essential logistics to keep our region’s industries going. The recent £420 million expansion to the south harbour will be transformative for the port’s future, with the potential to increase its gross value added contribution by 60 per cent and the number of jobs that it supports by 45 per cent, which could take the number of jobs up to 17,500.

Although tall ships are not typical vessels for the port of Aberdeen, I know that it will welcome them and the further boost to Aberdeen’s economy that the spectacle will bring.

Richard Lochhead (Scottish National Party, Moray)

It is appropriate to start by joining colleagues in sending deepest condolences to the family and friends of, and others who knew, the two young crew members and cadets who lost their lives on the Mexican navy ship, the Cuauhtémoc, during the tragedy in New York this past Saturday. Although this debate is focused on the celebration to come in July in Aberdeen, we must acknowledge the loss for the tall ships and sailing community of two of their own. I noticed the statement last night from Sail Training International—the body that is behind tall ships races—which said that it wanted to acknowledge, with sadness, the fact that the Mexican navy will no longer be participating in the tall ships races.

I thank Kevin Stewart for lodging the motion and, in his absence through illness, I wish him the best for his recovery. I thank members who signed the motion and Jackie Dunbar for taking the helm and so eloquently laying out the importance of this event and talking about the heritage of Aberdeen.

As I have said many times before in the chamber, the Scottish Government places huge value on major events, which have a unique ability to bring communities together, offer lasting legacies for generations to come and provide considerable economic impact locally and nationally. We are committed to ensuring that the country capitalises on those benefits and that we continue to be the perfect stage for such events.

We have a really good reputation in the major events space, as Michael Marra just said, evidenced by our successful delivery of events such as the 2014 Ryder cup, the open golf championships and the 2023 Union Cycliste Internationale cycling world championships, and by our support for the upcoming 2026 Commonwealth games, the 2027 Tour de France and the 2028 UEFA European football championships. We should not forget the island games in Orkney, which I will be attending the week before the tall ships races in Aberdeen.

I am pleased to share how the 2025 tall ships race in Aberdeen will continue that pipeline of major events in Scotland and reinforce our nation’s status as an outstanding major events destination. We are very proud to be working alongside our partners in Aberdeen City Council, the UK Government and the port authority, and other partners that have been mentioned.

We provided £158,000 through the EventScotland international events programme to support the event. The international events programme supports the delivery of Scotland’s national events strategy, “Scotland: The Perfect Stage”, by investing in major world-class events that raise Scotland’s profile and showcase Scotland’s key event and tourism assets. Those assets include our people, our cultural identity and heritage, our national environment and, of course, our built environment.

The tall ships races are a fitting example of an event that showcases all those things. It is an event that sits close to Scotland’s heart. We have hosted the tall ships event four times before; however, as the motion states, it has been 28 years since the event’s last return to the granite city—Aberdeen previously hosted it in 1991 and 1997. As part of Europe’s largest free family festival, the 2025 event will see a fleet of 50 sailing vessels visit Aberdeen, a sight that, no doubt, will be something to behold. It will have been worth that 28-year wait, and it truly has the potential to be the biggest event that Aberdeen will have held for a generation.

Fittingly, 2025 also marks the 200th anniversary of the Aberdeen Line, which built more than a hundred ships from the Walter Hood shipyard—the very place that the tall ships will be berthed in July. That is a good reminder of the city’s rich maritime heritage.

Beyond the tall ship races themselves, Aberdeen’s festival of the sea, which will extend either side of that event, will provide further opportunities for visitors and communities to enjoy and participate in the proud celebration of the region’s heritage and culture, as well as highlighting further points of interest across the whole city.

As others have said, the tall ships races will potentially play host to an incredible 400,000 people, and the event presents a significant tourism opportunity for Aberdeen and the wider region. Locals in the city and beyond will be excited about the races. There were many applications for the voluntary positions to help at the event: 300 people were selected from 1,400 who applied, and 60 per cent of them are from the city itself. We pay tribute to the many volunteers who help support such events in Aberdeen and throughout the country.

My final remarks revolve around what is happening in Aberdeen at the moment. It is an exciting event, as many people have said. People may know that I have strong personal connections to Aberdeen. I lived there for a while—when I was first elected to the Parliament, I moved to Aberdeen, and I have family connections to the city. I also support the local football team, which I wish the best for the cup final this weekend. I hope that, whoever wins, it is a successful cup final and that both teams and their sets of fans have an enjoyable occasion.

A lot of positive things are happening just now in the city. I pay tribute to the creativity, ingenuity and hard work of so many bodies in the city that make those things happen.

Jackie Dunbar (Scottish National Party, Aberdeen Donside)

Will the minister give way?

Richard Lochhead (Scottish National Party, Moray)

I have time to do so—yes.

Jackie Dunbar (Scottish National Party, Aberdeen Donside)

The minister was discussing what is happening this weekend, and it would be remiss of me if I did not mention that the Denis Law legacy trail will be opening this weekend. That is another great walkabout for when folk come to see our tall ships.

Richard Lochhead (Scottish National Party, Moray)

Jackie Dunbar’s point is well made. When I was in the city a couple of days ago, at the weekend, I noticed the murals of Denis Law—they are something to behold when you are driving on Great Northern Road.

The tall ships races are one of many positive developments for the city. I pay tribute to the organisations and partners that are involved in promoting economic development in the city. There are some amazing events that illustrate and exemplify the ambition of the city, the Aberdeen and Grampian Chamber of Commerce, the council and the various other initiatives that are promoting the city. Aberdeen is an exciting place with a huge amount of potential, and I am paying close attention to the exciting developments in the city.

Scottish ministers will be represented at the tall ships races. I wish all the participants the best of luck, and the city the best of luck in hosting this fantastic event. I congratulate all the sponsors and other partners. Let us look forward, as a country, to one of Scotland’s major events in the coming months.

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

That concludes the debate.

Housing Emergency

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

The next item of business is a statement by Shirley-Anne Somerville on response to the housing emergency. The cabinet secretary will take questions at the end of her statement, so there should be no interventions or interruptions.

Shirley-Anne Somerville (Scottish National Party, Dunfermline)

Housing has an essential part to play in delivering the First Minister’s four key priorities for Scotland, most notably those on eradicating child poverty and growing Scotland’s economy. Housing is both a social and an economic good. It is critical to supporting health, wellbeing, life chances, job prospects and tackling child poverty. We know that more people must be able to access good, affordable homes, but the drivers of the housing emergency are long standing, complex and interconnected. A broad span of ownership and co-operation is therefore required to deliver comprehensive solutions, which is why, over the past year, we have built a strong collaboration with a range of key partners spanning the Scottish Government, local government, housing representative bodies, developers, investors, third sector organisations and tenant groups.

I will take a moment to summarise some of the key activities and outputs from this year’s delivery. This year, the Scottish Government is investing £768 million to support the delivery of 8,000 homes for social and mid-market rent and low-cost home ownership. We have also announced £4 million of homelessness prevention funding and £2 million to increase the scale and pace of privately owned empty homes being returned to use. We remain committed to working closely with the private sector to support economic growth, including through regional economic partnerships.

Yesterday, the Minister for Housing attended an event in Annan in the south of Scotland organised by Prosper, exploring opportunities for housing and its role in supporting the economy across the region. I am pleased that, as part of our commitment, the housing investment task force, in addition to the work that it has done with Government over the past year, provided its report to ministers, which will be published in the next few weeks.

We are now focused on long-term plans for implementing those recommendations to unlock new investment opportunities across all tenures. Optimising the impact of investment is essential if we are to bring further private investment into the housing sector. One clear example of how we aim to amplify increasing institutional investment is the £100 million funding that was committed last year, which is intended to grow to at least £500 million to fund construction of 2,800 mid-market rent homes. The procurement for market testing of that is now live.

We have also invested £46 million in charitable bonds, supporting the delivery of around 325 homes. That will generate £13.8 million in charitable donations to help to fund future affordable housing projects. To home in on the areas in most need, we have adopted a targeted approach. We introduced a new £80 million voids and acquisitions fund, with 80 per cent of that resource being directed towards the five local authorities that face the most sustained temporary accommodation pressures. We have already seen marked positive impacts, with the City of Edinburgh Council’s management information showing us that void levels have been cut by more than 50 per cent since June 2023.

That approach has brought more than 1,000 properties into use as affordable homes, helping to reduce the number of homeless households spending long periods in temporary accommodation. A further reflection of our determination to focus our efforts on the people who are most in need is our work with local authorities to directly support increased family housing capacity.

Our investment of £3.7 million in the Scottish empty homes partnership and network of empty homes officers is also delivering real results, with more than 11,000 homes being returned to active use since 2010, including 1,875 in one year alone, as per the latest analysis.

Our work on planning is demonstrating the activist, supportive government approach that will take Scotland through and beyond the housing emergency. We have progressed the 23 actions that are set out in the Government’s “Planning and the Housing Emergency—Delivery Plan” and we have worked at pace and in close collaboration with housing providers and local government on removing barriers to stalled housing sites. Through strategic actions and direct intervention, we are supporting the delivery of up to 20,000 new homes. The stalled sites work that has been undertaken since the autumn is another example of the required partnership working, where Government and business are working together to identify the problems and deliver solutions.

We have also progressed our programme for government commitment on strategic sites by confirming £15 million in funding to unlock the opportunities for more than 800 affordable net zero homes at the Granton strategic site, supporting our approach to place-based intervention. Alongside that, we have been working intensively with local authority partners to better understand the local drivers of homelessness and temporary accommodation, which is helping partners to develop plans for impactful, purposeful spend, while sharing best practice and pursuing economies-of-scale opportunities.

I turn to our action on homelessness. Temporary accommodation is an important safety net for those who need it, but we want far fewer households, especially those with children, to be in temporary accommodation. Focused partnership action helped an estimated 2,669 households with children into affordable housing in the year ending December 2024. Our most recent statistics show that 20 councils have reduced the number of children who are in temporary accommodation. We take two lessons from that: we are encouraged that we can make a positive difference, and it also is confirmation that there is still more to do.

Our Housing (Scotland) Bill is currently undergoing stage 2 scrutiny. If passed by the Parliament, it will deliver new homelessness prevention duties and create new tenants’ rights, including long-term rent controls for the private rented sector. Those provisions will ensure that people can stay in their homes and avoid becoming homeless. The new prevention duties are seen by many as a game changer. That is why we have included an additional £4 million in the ending homelessness together budget for 2025-26 in order to help local authorities, front-line services and relevant partners to prepare for the new prevention measures and to help them to respond to the housing emergency by preventing homelessness before it occurs. Where possible, we are taking a cross-party approach to ensure the legislation will effectively strengthen tenants’ rights and protections so that people can have safe and warm homes.

We continue to support local authorities to transition to a rapid rehousing approach, with a commitment of £8 million this financial year to deliver initiatives that prevent homelessness where possible, and when homelessness does occur, to minimise the time that is spent in temporary accommodation. The activity that I have set out is enhanced by our partnership with private, public and third sector partners. The housing to 2040 board has been central to our collaborative approach, bringing together private developers, Shelter, Crisis, the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities and national Government to provide a forum to work collectively, share best practice and to stress test delivery plans. There have been welcome and valuable contributions from across the partnership. One example of many is the sustained constructive input from Homes for Scotland colleagues.

In June last year, following the declaration of a housing emergency, some members of the board formed a coalition of partners to set out a range of actions in response. The coalition made 17 asks, and I am pleased to say that we assess that our action to date has resulted in almost 90 per cent of those asks being met, in part or in full. In addition to the asks that were set out by the coalition, last week, the Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee published its housing inquiry report. It sets out a range of recommendations for the Scottish Government to consider as we continue our work to respond to the housing emergency. I thank the committee for its report, and we will give it close and serious attention before responding to the committee.

I have set out the work that the Scottish Government has undertaken in the past 12 months. We are making progress, but we know there is much more to do as we move into the next phase of our response.

That is why the latest programme for government reiterated our commitment to the delivery of the 110,000 affordable homes target by 2032. We will remove barriers to stalled sites, support people to access secure tenancies, double to £20 million our funding for housing adaptations for disabled tenants, and make available £97 million in discretionary housing payments, which mitigates the bedroom tax and the benefit cap. We have also extended the rural and island housing fund to March 2028 to deliver more affordable homes in rural and island communities.

The Scottish Government will continue to make progress, applying all available powers and resources to the challenge. We will, of course, continue to work at pace alongside local authority and housing coalition partners to support a co-ordinated response.

However, there remain a number of legacy issues, outstanding challenges and inhibitors that continue to present a challenge to delivery. The action that was taken in December 2022 by the UK Government to streamline the asylum decision-making process means that it will be challenging to reduce the numbers in temporary accommodation in the short to medium term, particularly in Glasgow and Edinburgh. I was deeply disappointed that UK ministers did not join a recent round-table discussion that was convened by the Scottish Refugee Council to discuss refugee homelessness in Glasgow, but participation by Scottish ministers in the work of Glasgow City Council shows that we are serious about working collaboratively on solutions.

Other factors driving the increase in homelessness lie beyond the Scottish Government’s control. Crisis has previously stated that we cannot ignore the essential role that local housing allowance rates play in preventing and ending homelessness, which is why the LHA rate should cover the bottom 30 per cent of rents in a given area as an absolute minimum. That is an issue that I have repeatedly raised with the UK Government’s child poverty task force, as such a policy would provide vital protection to those living in the private rented sector.

The Scottish Government’s interventionist approach is making a positive difference. Although the situation remains difficult, we are determined to maintain our focus and work with our partners to continue to rise to the challenges. That is the formula for moving Scotland through and past the current emergency.

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

The cabinet secretary will now take questions on the issues raised in her statement. I intend to allow around 20 minutes for questions, after which we will move on to the next item of business. Members who wish to put a question should press their request-to-speak buttons now.

Meghan Gallacher (Conservative, Central Scotland)

I thank the cabinet secretary for advance sight of her statement.

A year ago, the Scottish Government was forced to admit that Scotland has a housing emergency. Sir Tom Hunter has said that Scotland’s housing shortage could be resolved “tomorrow” if the Government listened to the sector. He said that he knows of developers who are choosing to take build-to-rent projects to Birmingham and Manchester because of Scottish National Party rent controls. Yet, here we are, progressing a bill to bring in permanent rent controls that is bad for investment and will not result in one home being built. Sir Tom Hunter is right, is he not? We need to “build, baby, build”.

Instead of continuing with plans to push damaging rent controls, will the Government focus on building more affordable housing? Is the cabinet secretary confident that the Government will reach its target of 110,000 affordable homes by 2032, considering that it is miles off its target and that today’s statement did not mention the word “build” once? Finally, will the cabinet secretary confirm today that the Scottish Government will not cut the affordable housing supply budget next year, given that it has already been cut by £218 million in real terms since 2021?

Shirley-Anne Somerville (Scottish National Party, Dunfermline)

As I said in my statement, the Government is absolutely committed to the 110,000 target.

I am slightly confused about the outrage about rent controls that Ms Gallacher is portraying today, given that, at stage 2 of the Housing (Scotland) Bill, she joined Labour and the Greens to extend rent controls into other areas of the housing sector. Last week, I wrote to investors to reassure them that the Scottish Government will, if necessary, introduce amendments at stage 3 to ensure that rent controls are not extended. That addresses one of the main concerns that I have heard from investors recently.

Only last week, I also heard from investors that they need certainty. We have had differences of opinion in the Parliament about rent controls, but the Government is moving forward with them. We have made changes at stage 2 to provide certainty for investors in the build-to-rent and purpose-built student accommodation markets. The Government is determined to provide that certainty. I hope that Ms Gallacher will join me at stage 3 in voting for amendments that are needed to rectify any potential challenges that have been brought about by earlier voting at stage 2.

Mark Griffin (Labour, Central Scotland)

What the Government has brought before us is not a plan for ending the housing emergency, but, as Shelter says, “a programme for homelessness”. Freedom of information responses show that the Government runs the risk of missing every single housing target that it has set.

We have a housing budget that is lower in real terms than it was two years ago. Rates of affordable new homes are falling, which is somehow being packaged as a success. The promise of 8,000 homes in the statement is a lower number than we have had in previous years. All of that is happening in the face of 10,000 children living in temporary accommodation.

Can the cabinet secretary point to the part of her statement that will end the housing emergency, instead of allowing more children to wake up in awful hotels? Not a single individual or organisation outside the Government believes that it will end it.

Shirley-Anne Somerville (Scottish National Party, Dunfermline)

I point to the Government’s strong track record delivering on affordable homes. The Government has delivered 136,000 affordable homes, which is 47 per cent more per head of population than in England and 70 per cent more per head of population than in Wales. That is a strong record that I am proud of, but I know that we need to go further. That is exactly why, as I said in my statement, we have taken a range of actions, on voids, acquisitions, affordable homes and assisting private developers.

The work that we have undertaken has been shaped by the 17 asks of the coalition, which I mentioned in my statement. Those organisations came forward with asks at the start of the housing emergency, and those asks have shaped our work on it. The coalition asked for a full reversal of the cut to the affordable housing supply budget, and that has been delivered. It asked for prioritisation of funding for larger homes and those in areas of specific pressure, and that has been delivered. It asked for specific work to be done with energy suppliers to assist with voids, and that work has been delivered, and indeed it is on-going.

We are absolutely determined to rise to the remaining challenges. I know that we have made progress, but I also know that there is more to do.

Emma Roddick (Scottish National Party, Highlands and Islands)

It is vital that we continue to press forward with action to tackle homelessness and ensure that everyone has a safe and secure place to call home. Can the cabinet secretary provide an update on the steps that the Scottish Government is taking to support local authorities and front-line services to prevent homelessness, and what difference the upstream homelessness prevention fund is expected to make for people who are at risk?

Shirley-Anne Somerville (Scottish National Party, Dunfermline)

The project that Emma Roddick mentioned, the upstream homelessness prevention fund, was an ask by the Scottish Federation of Housing Associations as a response from the housing sector on how to deal with the housing emergency. I am delighted that the Government is able to support that fund.

Homelessness prevention is vital as part of tackling the housing emergency, and it will continue to be vital once we have moved out of the housing emergency. That is why, as I mentioned in my statement, we have put an additional £4 million into the ending homelessness together budget to assist people to prepare for the new preventative powers that will come in through the housing budget. When that is put together with the more than £30 million for homelessness prevention activity that is given to local authorities and the money to mitigate the bedroom tax, which assists more than 94,000 households to safeguard their tenancies and prevent homelessness, it is clear that the prevention work that Emma Roddick rightly focuses on is integral to the work that the Government will be doing to tackle the housing emergency.

Jeremy Balfour (Conservative, Lothian)

The City of Edinburgh Council pays out millions of pounds of public funds to private businesses to provide unsuitable temporary accommodation in which people do not feel safe. Does the cabinet secretary agree with the recommendation of the 36 organisations that are represented by Everyone Home that that money would be better spent creating

“a Challenge Fund for councils, housing associations and/or the third sector to replace unsuitable temporary accommodation”?

Shirley-Anne Somerville (Scottish National Party, Dunfermline)

Jeremy Balfour has raised an important point about the money in the system that is used for temporary accommodation or, indeed, unsuitable temporary accommodation. Part of the focused work that the Scottish Government has undertaken in our reaction to the housing emergency is to deliver learning to all local authorities about good practice elsewhere. For example, the local authorities that are using money that could be spent otherwise on temporary accommodation should turn that money into permanent homes. That type of practice is happening more in some areas of the country than in others.

Regardless of whether that is a local authority responsibility, there is an onus on the Government to use its facilitation and convening powers to share that best practice with Edinburgh and other councils to assist in the reduction of unsuitable temporary accommodation usage.

Ben Macpherson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Northern and Leith)

As the Scottish Government has emphasised, the drivers of the housing emergency are long-standing, complex, interconnected and strongly related to inequality. Although build-to-rent accommodation has a role, it is not a panacea. There are many measures to take, and the cabinet secretary has mentioned some of the measures that the Scottish Government is taking in Edinburgh—where the emergency is most acute—such as the £80 million investment to realise voids and for acquisitions, and the investment in Granton as a strategic site.

How is the Scottish Government working with the City of Edinburgh Council to address the emergency and the severe situation with homelessness and temporary accommodation? Could it perhaps consider keeping the local connections regulations under review in places where there is real pressure, such as here? Can the cabinet secretary say more about the difference that changes to the local housing allowance would make?

Shirley-Anne Somerville (Scottish National Party, Dunfermline)

As I mentioned in my statement, if the UK Government moved on its position on the local housing allowance, it would make a tremendous difference in Edinburgh and elsewhere. At the ask of councils, an analysis has been done of the impact of the change in local connections, which shows that there is a flow of pressure from one council to another and not a particular pressure on one council. However, we will keep an eye on that particular matter. It is an important part of people’s rights that I have no intention of taking away, but we will always look at the impact that it is having.

I mentioned the targeted work that has been done with the five main local authorities with the most pressures on temporary accommodation. Ben Macpherson mentioned the £80 million for voids and acquisitions. Voids are usually part of the day-to-day management of a council but, given the interventionist approach that the Government is keen to take, we have provided funding, which the City of Edinburgh Council and others have taken up.

I welcome the fact that Ben Macpherson got to join the First Minister to mark phase 1 of Granton waterfront and the £16 million that went to it from the housing infrastructure fund. That is another way in which the Government can provide infrastructure funding to unlock sites such as Granton.

Sarah Boyack (Labour, Lothian)

I draw members’ attention to my entry in the register of members’ interests. Will the cabinet secretary accept that the £4 million homelessness prevention fund that she announced will not even cover the work that is needed in Edinburgh, never mind across the country? The Everyone Home statement was clear:

“Not enough has been done. The measures taken have been insufficient, the ambition too modest and the urgency lacking.”

In our capital city, people have to wait years to access affordable social housing. Does the cabinet secretary think that that is acceptable? We are talking about tackling homelessness and enabling people to access affordable social housing. Will the cabinet secretary acknowledge that the sector is massively underfunded?

Shirley-Anne Somerville (Scottish National Party, Dunfermline)

I am sure that Sarah Boyack would recognise that the £4 million is additional funding that has come in to ready local authorities and other partners in public services for the new responsibilities that will befall them if the housing bill goes through the Parliament. It is on top of the funding that is already provided to local authorities, registered social landlords and others to enable them to assist in preventing and tackling homelessness.

With Ben Macpherson and others, I have been through the work that we are undertaking to ensure that money is being spent, particularly in Glasgow, Edinburgh and other areas where there are extreme pressures on temporary accommodation. That targeted funding is now paying dividends. I accept that there is more to do, but improvements are being made that will make an immediate difference, for example, around the voids in the City of Edinburgh Council’s own stock.

Keith Brown (Scottish National Party, Clackmannanshire and Dunblane)

I refer members to my entry in the register of members’ interests and to my membership of a local government pension scheme.

Given the scale of the housing emergency, it is clear that delivering the homes that Scotland needs will require innovative and collaborative approaches. Will the cabinet secretary share with us what engagement the Scottish Government has had with public and private sector pension funds to explore how their investment capacity could support new housing delivery, particularly for mid-market rent?

Shirley-Anne Somerville (Scottish National Party, Dunfermline)

I thank Keith Brown for that question. It raises an important point: as well as looking at the funding that the Scottish Government can deliver, we should also look at innovative ways of bringing additional funding into the sector.

I have heard concerns from various stakeholders about some of the challenges around attracting private investment into the sector and having the right investment structures in place. Keith Brown mentions one of those challenges, which is around pension funds. That is why we are looking at innovative solutions and why the Minister for Housing established the housing investment task force, which will report in the next few weeks. It is also why we are moving on in our work on mid-market rent and institutional investment, which involves a combination of Scottish Government and private sector funding. That will pay dividends and will ensure that we are delivering much more than the public sector could deliver alone; that we are using public funds more effectively; and that we are working out the structures that we need, and can help to put in place, in order to attract higher levels of private investment.

Maggie Chapman (Green, North East Scotland)

Scottish Government data shows that there are more long-term empty homes than there were homelessness applications last year. I have lodged amendments to the Housing (Scotland) Bill that would see vacant or derelict properties being brought back into use for residential purposes through compulsory sale or lease orders. Those are just some of the measures that we need to implement to ensure that homes are for living in and to help us to prevent homelessness.

Does the cabinet secretary support those proposals to increase the number of existing homes that are actually lived in? Will she ensure a renewed focus, beyond the empty homes partnership, on bringing empty and derelict homes back into use?

Shirley-Anne Somerville (Scottish National Party, Dunfermline)

I thank Maggie Chapman for the conversations that she and I have been having about the Housing (Scotland) Bill. We have perhaps agreed on some areas more than others, but the conversations have certainly always been useful.

The challenge that Maggie Chapman, rightly, mentions about the use of empty homes is an important one. In my statement, I said that work is being undertaken by empty homes officers across Scotland with Scottish Government funding support. The work that the Scottish Government has undertaken to analyse what is happening in different local authorities in relation to use of the powers that they have at the moment demonstrates that some local authorities are using their current powers much more than others. That is one of the areas where we hope to demonstrate to local authorities that are perhaps not going as far as they could that they should do so.

I will give serious consideration to Maggie Chapman’s amendments to the bill, but she will know that we will be undertaking a review of compulsory purchase orders, which involves a complex piece of legislation. Regardless of whether we want to go further on that, local authorities could be doing a lot more with the powers that they have at the moment.

Willie Rennie (Liberal Democrat, North East Fife)

Although not as much as I would like, the Government has moved away from some of the damaging policies and rhetoric of the past, which I believe contributed to the housing emergency that we have now, with high levels of temporary accommodation and low levels of new starts and completions. Will the cabinet secretary guarantee that there will be no return to policies that damage investment in housing?

Shirley-Anne Somerville (Scottish National Party, Dunfermline)

As I mentioned in a previous answer, it is exceptionally important that we not only maximise the public funding that goes into housing but encourage and maximise the private investment that goes into it. I recognise the challenge that Willie Rennie puts to me today, and has put to me in the past, on ensuring that the Government does all that it can to encourage private investment. That allows private development, and, with private development, there are more affordable homes.

I reassure Willie Rennie that the Government has no intention of extending rent controls, for example. We are also working with investors to tackle any challenges that they have. I can give the example of the work that the Minister for Housing is doing on stalled sites to see what more needs to be done; we are giving active consideration to whether there is infrastructure funding that could unlock a number of such sites. I give Willie Rennie those examples to demonstrate that I know that private housing investment is an exceptionally important part of the jigsaw of tackling the housing emergency.

Karen Adam (Scottish National Party, Banffshire and Buchan Coast)

Housing plays a key role in sustaining our rural communities. Will the cabinet secretary provide an update on the action that the Scottish Government is taking to tackle the housing emergency in rural and island communities?

Shirley-Anne Somerville (Scottish National Party, Dunfermline)

We are determined to deliver on not only the 110,000 affordable homes target but the part of the target that states that at least 10 per cent will be in rural and island communities. That work is supported by the rural and islands housing action plan. I have already mentioned some of the funds that are available for that plan, such as the £30 million rural and islands housing fund, the extension of which to March 2028 we recently announced in the programme for government. There is also the rural affordable homes for key workers fund, which is demand led, so I am keen to encourage colleagues across the chamber and the public sector to ensure that applications come in for the fund. We must encourage the best use of the homes that we have at the moment, as well as developing new homes.

Graham Simpson (Conservative, Central Scotland)

The cabinet secretary’s statement made no reference at all to home builders that are small and medium-sized enterprises, which I found rather odd. The number of active SMEs is down two-thirds since the global financial crash, and more than 500 in Scotland were dissolved in 2023, yet they are vital if we are to build more homes.

This week, the cross-party group on housing heard that up-front costs are too high and the planning system is too slow. One of the biggest barriers that builders face is the cost of electricity connections, with sites across the country stalled because they cannot get on to the grid. When the cabinet secretary looks at the issue of stalled sites, which she referenced in her statement, will she look at that issue? Will she agree to then report back and even to meet members of the cross-party group?

Shirley-Anne Somerville (Scottish National Party, Dunfermline)

SME developers are exceptionally important—when I mention private developers, they are an important part of that work. The work on stalled sites is also exceptionally important, whether the sites involve a small developer or one of our larger developers. In that work, Scottish Government officials, planning officials and others work with developers to go through specific stalled sites to see exactly why they are stalled and what can be done to unlock each site.

I will check in again on the issues around electricity connections, but I reassure Mr Simpson that the entire point of sitting down and looking at each site specifically is so that each issue that is stalling a site can be discussed. It might not be in the power of the Scottish Government to unlock the site, but we can facilitate discussions with other parts of the public sector or with the private sector.

As I have said in previous statements, we are also looking to see what infrastructure funding can be put in to unlock a private development. In today’s statement, I gave the example of the £16 million for Granton, but smaller sites are also considered as part of that process.

Elena Whitham (Scottish National Party, Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley)

Homelessness is a terrible symptom of the housing emergency, which is actually a people emergency. People who have grown up in poverty, who have already experienced severe disadvantage and discrimination, are the most impacted. I have heard directly from women who have experienced violence in hotel accommodation, including sexual assault. That is trauma upon trauma.

The lack of housing supply is directly causing people to be homeless. Given the seriousness of the situation, will the Scottish Government commit to doing everything that it can to foster innovation and to increase the resources available for both housing supply and support to sustain tenancies, while also supporting our third sector partners to play the huge role that they can play to deliver housing first?

Shirley-Anne Somerville (Scottish National Party, Dunfermline)

Elena Whitham gives me the opportunity to put on record my thanks to all those in the third sector who provide that type of support. As we work through this housing emergency, it is important to work together—the third sector is an important part of that.

Elena Whitham also mentioned tackling the issue through housing supply and support. That talks to the work that we are doing around the prevention of homelessness, the provision of more homes and the better use of the homes that we have built. I give her the reassurance that I recognise the role of the third sector in providing those services and I thank the sector very much for the work that it does for some of the most vulnerable in our society, every day of the year.

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

That concludes the ministerial statement. I will allow a few moments for members on the front benches to get organised for the next item of business.

Committee Effectiveness Inquiry

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

The next item of business is a debate on behalf of the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee on the committee effectiveness inquiry. I invite members who wish to participate in the debate to press their request-to-speak buttons. I call Martin Whitfield to speak on behalf of the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee.

Martin Whitfield (Labour, South Scotland)

It is a pleasure to open the debate and to see so many people eager to contribute to what is, in essence, an evidence-capturing session for what I, modestly, think is probably one of most important inquiries that any committee will undertake during this parliamentary session.

Let us turn the clock back to 1774 and listen to the words of Edmund Burke, who was trying to explain to his electorate some of the challenges that he faced and the relationship between elected representatives and their constituents. His reflection was that

“government and legislation are matters of reason and judgement, and not of inclination; and what sort of reason is that, in which the determination precedes the discussion”?

If I can be so bold, I will take those words and look at them in relation to the challenge of scrutiny. How should we, as modern-day parliamentarians, set aside our individual and party viewpoints to focus on delivering the best scrutiny that we can, in the interests of our constituents? How do we develop a culture, to quote a fellow MSP, of

“being prepared to be open and to accept that you might hear evidence over the course of the process that leads you to change your mind”?

As I open this debate on the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee’s inquiry into committee effectiveness, I am keen to make it clear that today is about hearing the views, reflections and experiences of members in the chamber on that important matter. As a committee, we do not hold a monopoly on wisdom about committee effectiveness. I wish to ensure that, whether members’ reflections are informed by their role as a committee member, convener or minister, those reflections have a chance to be aired, shared and discussed in a constructive and open debate.

There have been three strands to the committee’s work: structure, elected conveners and evaluation. Today’s debate is the final part of our evidence gathering. As well as five oral evidence sessions, in which we captured practice and academic expertise on committee operation, we held a facilitated discussion with the Conveners Group and gathered written views from the public and from other legislatures, parties and committees, so we are primed to feed what we, as a committee, hear from members today into our work and, ultimately, our inquiry conclusions and recommendations to the Parliament. I thank everyone who has engaged with our work to date.

The evidence that we have received has highlighted areas in which committees are performing well: they carry out important, if sometimes unsung work; they have an impact; they hold the Scottish Government to account; they achieve good outcomes; and they provide an opportunity for us to hear directly from those who are impacted by the decisions that we take.

Stephen Kerr (Conservative, Central Scotland)

Looking around the chamber, I can see conveners who have established powerful committees on the basis that Martin Whitfield has described. How important is the role of the convener? Does he agree that the convener sets the culture and tone for a committee and allows it to do exactly what he has suggested should be the role of committees?

Martin Whitfield (Labour, South Scotland)

Of course the convener holds a key piece of the jigsaw in ensuring that the committee works effectively. I will come to the evidence on that in a minute, if the member will kindly let me finish talking about the impact of our work.

To aid today’s deliberations, I would like to set out in detail the strands that the committee looked at. In relation to structure, we sought to answer the question, “Are there structural and procedural changes that would improve committee scrutiny?” We heard various views on whether the size of a committee matters. Smaller committees seem to assist with the development of a sense of cohesion, but bigger committees offer the flexibility to deploy members as reporters, to form sub-committees and to manage high workloads.

Churn in the membership of committees has been a recurring theme. As well as considering ways to reduce that churn, we heard reflections on how its impact can be mitigated by committees having mission statements that set out long-term aims and purposes, so that new members can recognise and support those from the outset.

We gave consideration to committee remits and to whether they should continue to mirror the ministerial portfolios, or whether there needs to be more flexibility for ad hoc bill committees or more cross-committee working.

We heard reflections on what is seen by many to be the ideal of a committee member leaving their party hat at the committee door, whether that is always desirable or, indeed, realistic to achieve, and how members can be empowered in their role through the provision of induction, training and support.

The committee also explored the use of parliamentary time and whether that should be utilised differently, for example by setting aside specific periods in which committee activity can be focused on or by giving committees more flexibility to meet in private session at the same time as the chamber.

The committee has agreed that, as a minimum, there should be no single-sex committees from the start of next session, and we have used the inquiry to explore the other quotas that are set out in the gender-sensitive audit regarding committee membership and convenership.

The second strand—this relates to Stephen Kerr’s intervention—was that of elected conveners.

Jackson Carlaw (Conservative, Eastwood)

I noted the statement that there should be no single-sex committees in the Parliament. How would Martin Whitfield ensure that that would be delivered?

Martin Whitfield (Labour, South Scotland)

That challenge will rest with members of the Scottish Parliament in the new session. We highlight the issue because of the overwhelming evidence that we have heard that having no single-sex committees is one step towards achieving a better gender balance. However, members in the next session will have to address the issue in the context of the make-up of the Parliament and the different characteristics of its members. In a sense, our recommendation that there should be no single-sex committees is a bellow from this side of a dark tunnel to those who emerge at the other side after the election, but there is genuine recognition that it will improve the process if it is adhered to.

To return to the issue of elected conveners, we reflected on experiences in Westminster and in the Senedd of moving to having elected committee chairs. There was a suggestion—and this speaks to Stephen Kerr’s intervention—that being elected gives chairs more authority and a mandate to run the committee more independently from party groups. We also explored whether having elected conveners would deliver an alternative career path for members, outside of being part of Government.

Jackie Dunbar (Scottish National Party, Aberdeen Donside)

I will go back to what you said about having gender-balanced committees. That is surely down to what the gender balance will be in the chamber. If that policy was put in place as things stand just now, you would actually be giving us women more work to do, because there are more men in the chamber than there are women.

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

Always speak through the chair.

Martin Whitfield (Labour, South Scotland)

That intervention speaks to the very heart of the reality that the Parliament must find for itself in the next session. There has been a lot of discussion about where that responsibility rests, and much of it rests with political parties and their decisions about how to select candidates, which is, rightly, outside the scope and control of this chamber.

To go back to what I said in my response to the previous intervention, this is a cry from this side of a dark tunnel to say that the Parliament in the next session will have better committees if they are not single-sex. In a wonderful example of kicking things into the future, how that is achieved and implemented may rest with others.

I am conscious of time and will turn to evaluation, which was a key aspect throughout our inquiry. Do committees have time to look at how well they have worked? Do they have time, outside of their legislative programme, to explore what they want to explore? We also considered the merit of post-legislative scrutiny as well as the suggestion that added value should be given to pre-legislative scrutiny.

I hope that this short opening has been helpful to members. The inquiry has very much been a listening exercise by the committee. I look forward to hearing all the reflections from members across the chamber on what is—I reiterate this—an important inquiry for those who will come after us.

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

I advise members that we have a bit of time in hand and that they will be given the time back, should they take any interventions.

I call Kenneth Gibson to speak on behalf of the Finance and Public Administration Committee.

Kenneth Gibson (Scottish National Party, Cunninghame North)

I am pleased to speak in this debate on committee effectiveness, because it is crucial that Parliament practices are kept under review and that we continually improve in order to carry out the most effective possible scrutiny and to meet public expectations. I therefore welcome the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee’s inquiry into committee effectiveness and the excellent work that it has undertaken to date.

The SPPA Committee asked me to discuss the approach and practices of the Finance and Public Administration Committee because it was mentioned as an example of good practice in the evidence gathered to date. Since the start of this session of Parliament, the FPA Committee has worked in a consensual, constructive and collective way to hold Government to account and to do so robustly where needed.

Party politics are largely left at the door, ensuring that our work is more impactful. For example, we have published 40 reports so far this session, and every single recommendation that we have made has been agreed consensually, with not one involving a division. Our seven members represent four political parties, and we have one member who sits as an independent.

John Mason (Independent, Glasgow Shettleston)

Would Mr Gibson say, as I would, that it is an advantage for a committee to have only seven members? Will he also mention the fact that we have to read all our papers, because we are not given questions by the Scottish Parliament information centre?

Kenneth Gibson (Scottish National Party, Cunninghame North)

You have jumped the gun, John, because I am going to touch on that as I progress through my speech.

To point to our successes, the FPA Committee has improved the transparency of the budgetary information published by the Scottish Government, created the conditions for an open debate about the need—or not, as the case may be—for commissioners, secured a full review of the national performance framework, sought to protect and enhance the time available for parliamentary scrutiny of the Scottish budget and achieved much-needed improvements to the consistency and presentation of financial memoranda.

I note that the SPPA Committee is looking into the Parliament’s current committee structure, the optimum size of committee membership and the number of committees, and I believe that our committee is exactly the right size.

Our workload includes a mix of referred items, such as pre-budget and budget scrutiny, and consideration of bills and Scottish statutory instruments, and we undertake one or two self-initiated inquiries a year. It is crucial that all committees have balanced workloads, and, in carrying out our inquiries, we have chosen subjects on which we feel that we can make the most impact and effect real change.

Our remit in the current session broadened our scope to do just that. It is the first time that public administration has been specifically included in a Scottish Parliament committee’s responsibilities. That has allowed us to shine a light on new issues such as the effectiveness of Scottish Government decision making and to embed public administration in all areas of our work, including budget scrutiny, the commissioner landscape, the cost-effectiveness of public inquiries and the Government’s public service reform programme.

Stephen Kerr (Conservative, Central Scotland)

The member is undoubtedly—I have said this to him privately and I am going to say it publicly—an excellent example of what a convener in this Parliament should be. He mentioned the size of the FPA Committee. However, given the size of the Parliament, is there not an issue with the size of the Government? There are nearly 30 ministers, which means that the committee workload of a back-bench member from the Government party will be that much greater. Should we not look to reduce the number of ministers in the Scottish Government?

Kenneth Gibson (Scottish National Party, Cunninghame North)

First, you make me blush with that compliment. Secondly, I think that you have a point. I realise—

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

Please speak through the chair, Mr Gibson.

Kenneth Gibson (Scottish National Party, Cunninghame North)

I realise that the Scottish Government’s remit has increased over the years. However, in 2007, there were six members of the Cabinet and 16 ministers, and we know for a fact that the numbers have increased considerably since then. That puts an increased workload on back-bench members—who, for example, have to cover two or more committees.

Our committee has sought to continuously identify where improvements can be made to parliamentary scrutiny, including through our current inquiry into the budget process and focused work that is aimed at strengthening the content of the Government’s medium-term financial strategy.

It has helped to maintain our committee’s collective approach that the churn of members has been low—five members have remained in place since the early days of the current parliamentary session. That makes a huge difference, as it enables members to build up expertise, pursue issues over a period of time and identify links between the range of topics across our remit. We also pursue lines of questioning until we get answers, even over months or longer.

As members know only too well, committees take different approaches to questioning witnesses. At the start of the session—this also happened when I chaired the 2011 to 2016 Finance Committee—the FPA Committee agreed that it did not want the Scottish Parliament information centre or our clerks to provide pre-scripted questions that would be divided among members. Instead, we have background briefings and summaries of evidence to prompt our own questioning. Those documents are always published, for openness and transparency. That sink-or-swim approach encourages members—

Finlay Carson (Conservative, Galloway and West Dumfries)

Will the member take an intervention?

Kenneth Gibson (Scottish National Party, Cunninghame North)

If I will get the time back, I am more than happy to take another intervention.

Finlay Carson (Conservative, Galloway and West Dumfries)

There are sometimes calls for some of the less popular aspects of a bill or other scrutiny to be covered by prepared questions. Certainly, in the committee that I convene, there is a need for some questions to be asked that might not result in a clip or that do not concern aspects of the bill that members are interested in pursuing, but that does not mean that those areas do not need to be covered.

Kenneth Gibson (Scottish National Party, Cunninghame North)

To digress slightly, I note that what usually happens in the FPA Committee is that I open and cover a number of topics, which is followed by members exploring them in greater depth. However, we do not discuss as a committee what we are going to explore; it is up to every individual member to decide that. I find that, 80 to 90 per cent of the time, everything is covered. If one or two items are left out, I tend to cover them at the end, and I always ask witnesses whether they have any further points that they wish to make.

I had started to say that that sink-or-swim approach encourages members to develop their own knowledge and pursue particular areas of interest, leading to effective and impactful scrutiny and to members feeling invested in the committee’s work.

Finally, I want to emphasise the importance of the convener setting the tone for consensual and impactful scrutiny, which Stephen Kerr emphasised in his intervention on Martin Whitfield. Leadership is important. Being from the Government party, I work hard to gain the trust of and build solid relationships with committee members from across the political divide, and I am sure that they would agree that I have never shied away from asking difficult questions of Government and other witnesses. I allow members the space and time to pursue their own lines of questioning and create opportunities for us to work together on business planning days and fact-finding visits. I seek to consult members and represent the collective view prior to meeting ministers and stakeholders and when speaking to the media on the committee’s behalf.

I understand that the SPPA Committee is considering whether elected conveners would strengthen the Parliament’s committees and, if so, how. That is not an issue that the FPA Committee has considered, but it is clear to me that conveners of all parties can already play a key role in strengthening the effectiveness of their committees. However, they must be prepared to set the tone for all members to work in a constructive, non-partisan way and ensure that the necessary processes and practices are in place to support impactful scrutiny.

I look forward to hearing the other contributions to the debate.

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

I call Richard Leonard to speak on behalf of the Public Audit Committee.

Richard Leonard (Labour, Central Scotland)

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I will speak predominantly on behalf of the Public Audit Committee.

The Public Audit Committee has submitted a formal response to the call for views in the SPPA Committee’s inquiry, but I want to take a few minutes to speak about the experience that the Public Audit Committee brings, because it does have a particular remit, it does have a distinctive structure and it does have a different way of working compared to most other committees in this Parliament.

Let me begin by saying that our committee is smaller than most committees in the Parliament, with just five members, but we have found that not to be a weakness—it has proved to be a strength, because it gives every member the space to contribute properly every week. It creates the time for more in-depth questioning of witnesses, and it helps to build trust and collaboration across party lines—something that is especially important in scrutiny work. With fewer voices in the room, we are able more easily to follow the evidence, and it allows committee members not just to ask one question, but to ask a second, a third or even a fourth follow-up question of the same witness. So, it leads to more thorough scrutiny and a more constructive tone. That is why we have said in our written submission that smaller, more focused committees could improve scrutiny right across the Parliament.

John Mason (Independent, Glasgow Shettleston)

As Richard Leonard will gather, I, too, am a fan of smaller committees. How do we tie that in with party representation? The more popular committees—unlike his committee—such as the Education, Children and Young People Committee are the ones that everybody wants to be on.

Richard Leonard (Labour, Central Scotland)

I am simply observing. In the previous parliamentary session, Mr Mason and I were both on the Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee—Ash Regan was on it, too. It was quite a large committee and I have to say that, in the end, on quite a lot of reports, it broke down into tribalism and members voted along party lines. My experience on other committees in that session and on the Public Audit Committee in this session is that there tends to be much better cross-party working. I think that that is, in part but not exclusively, a function of the size of the committee.

Stephen Kerr (Conservative, Central Scotland)

Does that not highlight that the role of a member of the Scottish Parliament should transcend the party labels with which we are elected? Should we often not just junk the d’Hondt system? Should the jobs not be done by the best possible people to do them on behalf of the people of Scotland? Should that not be the criterion for the work of committees and for everything that we do as a Parliament?

Richard Leonard (Labour, Central Scotland)

I will come on to discuss some of that at the end of my contribution, so I will hopefully answer Mr Kerr’s question with my perspective on that.

Let me turn to something that has already come up and that I think is an issue. Low turnover in committee membership is, in my view, better for nurturing a collective and consistent approach. Gaining expertise and building relationships takes time, but the experience that we have had in the Public Audit Committee is that only two of us are original members who have been there from the start of the session. That is not a criticism; it is simply an observation—and, for the record, I say to Mr Mason that it is not because of the unpopularity of the Public Audit Committee. Also for the record, it is not because those who have left have done so to take up ministerial posts—that might be a criticism, actually. In my view, the Parliament might wish to consider the benefits of locking in stable committee membership as much as possible.

Our committee works differently from others in another significant way. Unlike most other committees, we do not routinely take evidence from ministers. Instead, we hear principally from senior civil servants—the so-called accountable officers—from the Scottish Government and from public bodies. They are defined, incidentally, in the Scottish public finance manual as “accountable officers” whose accountability is to us—the Parliament, on behalf of the people—and not to Government. These are the people with direct responsibility for how public money is spent and how public services are delivered. That allows us, in turn, to ask questions about performance, outcomes and value for money without party politics dominating the room.

It also helps us to focus on the evidence on whether service users—citizens—are getting what they have been promised. That approach has been central to some of our most high-profile work—this week, once again, on the delays and escalating costs of the Glen Sannox and Glen Rosa ferries programme and, just last week, the publication of our report on the misuse of public money by the Water Industry Commission for Scotland.

On the issue of elected conveners, our committee members held differing views, and we have submitted those individually, but on gender balance we were united. We support an end to single-sex committees. We would welcome positive action to ensure that a better gender balance exists across all the Parliament’s committees, but we also believe that this is about more than gender. We believe that diversity of background, of experience and of perspective strengthens parliamentary scrutiny, because the people who hold those in power to account should better reflect the people we are elected to serve.

Here are some final thoughts from me, Deputy Presiding Officer. We have duties that we must discharge as representatives. I am elected on a party ticket—of course I am; I would not be a member of this Parliament had I not been a Labour candidate—but we were not elected to be robots, trembling before the party whips. Ultimately, we are responsible to ourselves, to our consciences, to our values, and that, in my view, should be better reflected in the way in which we conduct ourselves in committee and in this chamber. We are not managers or would-be managers. We are elected representatives. We should have conviction in our politics and the courage of our conviction. These are questions not just about the future of this Parliament. These are not just operational matters. They are about the state of our democracy itself.

History tells us that progress comes from below and that Parliaments have to catch up. I hope that this Parliament does catch up—with the people’s hunger for more active, popular democracy not just in our Parliament, not just in our politics, but in our economy as well.