Scottish Parliament, 30 January 2025

275 contributions from 69 members. The official report.

General Question Time

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Good morning. The first item of business is general question time.

Colin Beattie (Scottish National Party, Midlothian North and Musselburgh)

To ask the Scottish Government what its position is on relaxing any conservation area restrictions that prevent the installation of solar panels and other energy-saving initiatives. (S6O-04266)

Alasdair Allan (Scottish National Party, Na h-Eileanan an Iar)

In May last year, the Scottish Government amended permitted development rights to allow solar panels and replacement windows to be installed on domestic and non-domestic buildings in conservation areas without the need for a planning application. That important change strikes an appropriate balance between tackling climate change and protecting important historic buildings and townscapes. Those rights are subject to specific restrictions, such as allowing solar panels to the rear of buildings in conservation areas.

Colin Beattie (Scottish National Party, Midlothian North and Musselburgh)

I am regularly contacted by my constituents who are understandably frustrated, as the restrictions mean that they are unable to install solar panels. What support does the Scottish Government have in place to help my constituents in conservation areas contribute to our journey to net zero?

Alasdair Allan (Scottish National Party, Na h-Eileanan an Iar)

Even in circumstances in which proposals for solar are not covered by the generous permitted development rights that I have mentioned, people still have the option of applying for permission to install panels. That will be a matter for the planning authority, and such applications will be considered, taking account of and weighing up the very supportive renewable energy policy in national planning framework 4, alongside policy relating to heritage objectives and any other relevant considerations.

Paul Sweeney (Labour, Glasgow)

The recent change in permitted development rights has led to significant degradation in the country’s built environment, particularly in conservation areas, due to the loose nature of the regulation. It means that, for example, PVC windows can be installed, which have poor life-cycle performance compared with timber.

Will the minister therefore consider putting in place more codified guidance for conservation areas to ensure that people make the right decisions with best-informed practical information that is based on best practice across the country? That could bring down the unit costs of installations such as timber sash-and-case windows, as more people would be encouraged to buy them.

Alasdair Allan (Scottish National Party, Na h-Eileanan an Iar)

I thank Paul Sweeney for his question. I know that he is very interested in built heritage.

With regard to the member’s point about windows, the permitted development right for the alteration or replacement of windows in domestic or non-domestic buildings primarily means that, in most conservation areas, the front elevation of properties will continue to be under restrictions. There are different rules for listed buildings, too. However, as I say, local authorities have a degree of authority on this matter when approached by people in such situations.

Carol Mochan (Labour, South Scotland)

To ask the Scottish Government when it last discussed plans to reduce corridor care and the use of temporary escalation spaces with national health service boards. (S6O-04267)

Neil Gray (Scottish National Party, Airdrie and Shotts)

Health boards operate their own escalation policy for the management of in-patient capacity, which includes well-established processes with locally agreed trigger points for maintaining a safe service and ensuring patient safety.

Capacity challenges can necessitate the provision of care in non-standard areas for some patients. That decision is not taken lightly and is made to relieve pressure on other parts of the system, in particular to prevent ambulance stacking and to allow crews to respond promptly to the most serious incidents. Every effort will be made to accommodate patients in an in-patient ward, and we are working with boards to free up capacity in acute sites.

Carol Mochan (Labour, South Scotland)

The Royal College of Nursing’s corridor care report revealed harrowing truths about the current realities of NHS patient care. For a start, the pressure of overcrowding has forced staff to care for patients in unsafe and inappropriate areas. Corridor care compromises patient privacy and dignity, and it should not be accepted as the norm. To show that the Scottish Government recognises that staff across health and social care are at breaking point, I ask the cabinet secretary to commit today to publishing regular data on corridor care.

Neil Gray (Scottish National Party, Airdrie and Shotts)

I recognise the pressure that there has been on staff, and I thank the RCN for its report. It was a snapshot that was taken during the peak of demand over the Christmas period, when we had an exceptional level of flu prevalence, but I do recognise that staff members who worked during that period were also feeling pressure before that and outside of the period when flu was prevalent.

We recognise the link between patient safety and capacity; those questions are incredibly important, and we continue to work with health boards on them. It highlights the importance of passing the budget, as it will allow measures to be taken forward to reduce demand on the system and free up capacity.

Sandesh Gulhane (Conservative, Glasgow)

I declare an interest as a practising NHS general practitioner.

In the harrowing RCN report, one nurse explained that in a

“department with capacity for 13 beds, we had 40 in, with patients on chairs having treatments administered, also sitting in the waiting room on cardiac monitors, using privacy screens to put around patients to use the bedpan.”

Imagine the indignity, cabinet secretary.

The First Minister told journalists that multiple crises are “facing too many parts” of our NHS, but when he was pressed about which parts, he refused to answer. Can the cabinet secretary now be straight with us and tell us which parts of the NHS are in crisis?

Neil Gray (Scottish National Party, Airdrie and Shotts)

I absolutely recognise the points that Sandesh Gulhane makes. As I did in answer to Carol Mochan, I would just reflect that the period in question was during the peak of the winter flu spike, when we experienced the highest level of flu incidents since, I believe, records began in 2010. We are talking about a period of exceptional demand.

I also recognise the picture that Mr Gulhane has portrayed with regard to the indignity that patients in such situations have suffered. That is why passing the budget will be so important; it will ensure that we are able to relieve pressure, increase capacity and ensure better flow through our hospitals, so that our patients and staff are able to get better service. Too many people are waiting too long or are being treated in inappropriate places.

Paul O'Kane (Labour, West Scotland)

To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on its stated commitment to end charges for non-residential care by the end of the current parliamentary session. (S6O-04268)

Maree Todd (Scottish National Party, Caithness, Sutherland and Ross)

The Scottish Government continues to work with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities to identify options for the removal of non-residential care charges as part of wider work with partners on social care improvement.

Paul O'Kane (Labour, West Scotland)

With less than 18 months of parliamentary time left in this session, it sounds to me that that is another promise made by the Scottish National Party in its manifesto that will not be met. Broken promises have consequences, particularly for people in many local authorities across Scotland who are looking at having to introduce care charges for the first time for people who have physical and learning disabilities.

It also sits on the back of a litany of promises that were made to disabled people, including access to a changing places toilet fund; annual health checks for people with learning disabilities; the proposed learning disabilities, autism and neurodivergence bill; the human rights bill; and the ditched national care service. We have also learned today that £20 million of the community living change fund has been wasted or is unaccounted for. When will the minister and her Government finally deliver on the pledge to end non-residential care charges and rectify a long list of broken promises to Scotland’s disabled community?

Maree Todd (Scottish National Party, Caithness, Sutherland and Ross)

The Scottish Government and our partners remain absolutely committed to reviewing non-residential care charges as part of the broader reform of social care. I have heard directly from disabled groups and vulnerable individuals across Scotland about the significant impact that those charges have on their lives, and I have directed my officials to continue working with COSLA and local partners to explore any possible options to achieve that objective, considering the current economic climate. I recognise the member’s interests and advocacy in this area, but I think that it is quite rich for a member of the Labour Party to lecture me about broken promises.

Willie Coffey (Scottish National Party, Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley)

To ask the Scottish Government how it protects the environment and the interests of local communities regarding the construction of battery storage plants within rural settings. (S6O-04269)

Alasdair Allan (Scottish National Party, Na h-Eileanan an Iar)

Scotland’s national planning framework ensures that the potential impacts of developments on communities and nature are important considerations in decision making. All applications are subject to site-specific assessments—[ Interruption .] Are there problems with the microphone?

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Carry on speaking, minister.

Alasdair Allan (Scottish National Party, Na h-Eileanan an Iar)

Details on the consenting process are set out in the Electricity (Applications for Consent) Regulations 1990 and the Electricity Works (Environmental Impact Assessment) (Scotland) Regulations 2017. That is United Kingdom law that is applicable in Scotland.

Developments under 50MW are determined by planning authorities in accordance with the Town and Country Planning (Development Management Procedure) (Scotland) Regulations 2013. We are considering recent advice and modelling published by the National Energy System Operator, along with the measures in the UK Government’s clean power action plan, to inform our approach.

Willie Coffey (Scottish National Party, Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley)

We know that the consenting process for battery storage plants falls within the UK Government’s planning process under its Electricity Act 1989, which is totally inadequate. What concerns me is the lack of local consultation, the poor management of the installation of these facilities and the significant damage caused to the rural environment. Will the minister give me an assurance that the Scottish Government will act on those concerns and ensure that local communities feel that they are valued and that the place in which they live will be protected and enhanced for generations to come?

Alasdair Allan (Scottish National Party, Na h-Eileanan an Iar)

On the member’s point about maintenance, I do not know whether he is alluding to the question of safety, but the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service is informed of such applications and does have input into the process.

As for the member’s wider questions about the benefit to Scotland and the community, despite the fact that powers to mandate community benefits are reserved to the UK Government, Scotland has made progress through our voluntary good practice principles framework, which encourages developers to offer community benefits as standard on all renewable energy projects. We are currently undertaking a joint review of and consultation on the Scottish Government’s good practice principles for onshore and offshore energy developments, as part of which our approach to community benefits from battery storage will be considered.

Karen Adam (Scottish National Party, Banffshire and Buchan Coast)

To ask the Scottish Government whether feasibility studies and development expenditure for ports and harbours will be eligible for funding as part of the investment in maintaining and improving ports and harbours that is proposed in its draft budget 2025-26. (S6O-04270)

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

In the ferries budget for 2025-26, £80 million has been forecast for piers and harbours to support and enhance ports across the Clyde and Hebrides and northern isles ferry services. That includes committed projects, new works and early design and business case development. Caledonian Maritime Assets Ltd leads delivery on that and works with third-party port owners when investment is required to support new vessels and other network improvements.

Other routes to funding are available for ports outwith the lifeline ferry network. For example, I am aware of on-going dialogue between Scottish Enterprise and Fraserburgh harbour about the port’s master plan and other economic opportunities.

Karen Adam (Scottish National Party, Banffshire and Buchan Coast)

Fraserburgh harbour has ambitious plans to develop its infrastructure and be the first port of call for supporting vital Scottish industries—especially offshore wind and our fishing fleet. However, the harbour must also fund, at risk, its necessary development and feasibility works. What reassurance and advice can the cabinet secretary give the harbour? Will she meet me and the harbour board to discuss that further?

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

Karen Adam is a strong champion of Fraserburgh harbour, and I have previously met the board with her. It is an independent trust port, and it is important to reiterate that discussion is taking place between Scottish Enterprise and the harbour on the master plan and the economic opportunities, including what new port infrastructure might be required to support the economic prospects. That has included Scottish Enterprise engaging with the port’s consultants to provide input on key market opportunities.

A meeting with relevant ministers can be considered at an appropriate stage but, depending on the potential funding sources, it may be more appropriate to meet economy, marine or energy ministers, as portfolio leads, when it is finally suggested what funding is best pursued.

Liam Kerr (Conservative, North East Scotland)

It is crucial for its master plan that Fraserburgh harbour can leverage private finance, and that will be made far easier with the Government’s full support. Will the cabinet secretary confirm her Government’s unequivocal support for the Fraserburgh harbour master plan and promise to do all that she can to back it?

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

I have heard at first hand about the master plan and, as the Cabinet Secretary for Transport, I am enthusiastic about its vision and ambition. Members will be aware that there is £150 million in offshore development support, which is a tripling of the funding that has been available.

Decision making about the economic aspects of the master plan does not necessarily lie in my portfolio, but I was enthused and impressed when I met the harbour trust port board members, who do that work on a voluntary basis, and I think that they are doing a fine job.

Fulton MacGregor (Scottish National Party, Coatbridge and Chryston)

To ask the Scottish Government what recent discussions it has had with Transport Scotland regarding safety measures at the Shawhead flyover on the A725 in Coatbridge. (S6O-04271)

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

As a Government minister, I have had no specific discussions regarding Shawhead flyover with the Scottish Government’s transport agency, Transport Scotland. However, I am aware that Transport Scotland officials and the maintenance contractor are in dialogue with Mr MacGregor, as the local constituency MSP, regarding the operation and safety performance of a nearby signalised junction and potential remediation or action.

Fulton MacGregor (Scottish National Party, Coatbridge and Chryston)

The cabinet secretary will be aware that the road is, unfortunately, a hotspot for accidents and has been a major concern for many of my constituents. As she said, she is also aware that I have had several meetings, which are on-going, with Transport Scotland, the Scottish Roads Partnership and Amey regarding improvements at the junction.

Transport Scotland and the other agencies that I mentioned have been excellent at communicating with me and have been open to improvements. I am pleased that, at the most recent meeting, it was agreed that further reviews would take place of the implementation of a filter lane at one of the junctions and that, following the results of a recent red-light survey, there would be further discussions with the Police Scotland safety cameras team. What can the Government do to support the transport agencies to ensure that any required improvements are undertaken as soon as possible?

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

I will ask officials at Transport Scotland to conclude the review work as soon as possible and to prioritise any recommendations for early delivery. I recognise Mr MacGregor, as the constituency MSP, for being a persistent and effective representative for his constituents in pursuing that important issue for them.

Elena Whitham (Scottish National Party, Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley)

To ask the Scottish Government how it is supporting the public and private sector to develop carbon literacy skills. (S6O-04272)

Alasdair Allan (Scottish National Party, Na h-Eileanan an Iar)

Promoting carbon literacy is essential to achieving net zero. That is why, through the work of our enterprise agencies and Business Energy Scotland, we have ensured that support and guidance are available to help businesses to understand and reduce their carbon emissions while aiding climate resilience. That is also why we are committed to working in partnership with public bodies, including through the Sustainable Scotland Network, to help them to fulfil their climate change duties and demonstrate climate leadership. As part of that work, we are drafting new statutory guidance that will improve climate literacy across the public sector.

Elena Whitham (Scottish National Party, Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley)

Scotland was one of the first countries in the world to acknowledge that we face a climate emergency. Does the minister agree that, to inspire changes in behaviour and improve our environment and the quality of people’s lives and wellbeing, as well as the places that they care for, it is crucial that we take every step possible to support the upskilling of businesses and organisations, such as through the carbon literacy courses that The Way Forward 2045 delivered in my constituency?

Alasdair Allan (Scottish National Party, Na h-Eileanan an Iar)

I agree whole-heartedly with Ms Whitham about the need to support the upskilling of businesses and organisations across our economy. That is vital if we are to deliver the changes that are needed for net zero and if we are to realise the significant benefits of adopting more efficient and sustainable practices.

As I have said, the Scottish Government continues to provide support for carbon literacy through our enterprise agencies and our work across the public sector, but we also need to see action from outwith Government. That is why I welcome the efforts of businesses such as The Way Forward 2045, which Elena Whitham highlighted and which she has mentioned in parliamentary motions.

In the past year, that business has been shortlisted for a VIBES Scottish environment business award in the just transition category. That kind of recognition is a further way in which we are encouraging positive change and greater carbon literacy across our economy.

Michelle Thomson (Scottish National Party, Falkirk East)

To ask the Scottish Government what its response is to reports that Falkirk Council is to consider a motion calling for immediate action by the Scottish Government to support the Grangemouth chemical cluster and the future of its industry. (S6O-04273)

Alasdair Allan (Scottish National Party, Na h-Eileanan an Iar)

I recognise the criticality of the Grangemouth cluster and its contribution to Scotland’s economy. We are committed to playing our part to secure a sustainable and long-term future for the complex.

We have jointly funded the project willow study, which seeks to develop a set of commercial propositions for the site, and we have committed £50 million to the Falkirk and Grangemouth growth deal. I am also working closely with Scottish Enterprise and Scottish Development International to identify and work with partners with an interest in investing in the cluster.

In the draft budget, £8.75 million is directly attributed to Grangemouth. I am committed to working with industry and the community through the Grangemouth future industry board to identify interventions and projects that maximise outcomes. I also call on the United Kingdom Government to go further in ensuring that it leaves no stone unturned in achieving our shared ambitions for Grangemouth.

Michelle Thomson (Scottish National Party, Falkirk East)

A motion that has been lodged today by the Scottish National Party group calls, critically, for the Grangemouth future industry board to expand its scope to focus on the here and now. The workers in Grangemouth do not just want jam tomorrow; they want bread and butter today. Is the Scottish Government hearing the call for real action to protect the skills base and the vital chemical cluster? The UK Government is doing nothing. I implore the Scottish Government to do as much as it possibly can.

Alasdair Allan (Scottish National Party, Na h-Eileanan an Iar)

A number of the interventions that I just mentioned are very much about the here and now. The Falkirk Council motion and Michelle Thomson have highlighted the tension that is at the heart of what the partners are doing to ensure that Grangemouth has a key role to play in Scotland’s net zero future. However, as Michelle Thomson said, we must also consider the here and now. It was disappointing to hear nothing at all from the chancellor yesterday—not a single commitment or comment—that would either help to avoid an abrupt and unnecessary closure of the refinery or support Grangemouth’s transition to play its part in Scotland’s green economy.

We need all the partners on the Grangemouth future industry board to work together constructively and with real urgency to do all that they can to progress the project willow recommendations when the report is produced. Given that it will fall to the UK Government to use its reserved powers to progress many of those recommendations, and given that the UK Government co-chairs the board, we will need the Labour Government to do what it has said it will do.

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

That concludes general question time.

First Minister’s Question Time

Russell Findlay (Conservative, West Scotland)

From day 1, we told the Scottish National Party that Humza Yousaf’s national health service recovery plan would not help patients. That was back in 2021, but only now are Humza Yousaf’s big promises finally in the bin. All those years were wasted while patients suffered and John Swinney insisted that everything was going great. He has now grandly announced all the same ideas that the SNP has already failed to deliver, but still with absolutely no credible explanation as to how any of it will actually be achieved. How can John Swinney expect anyone to believe that he will ever deliver his recycled promises?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

At the start of the week, I set out the Government’s focus, which will be on three key areas: ensuring that the resources are used to the greatest effect and have an impact in driving down waiting times and clearing treatment backlogs; reforming the system to deliver the right care in the right place; and making a long-term shift to prevention. We will accomplish that by providing the necessary policy direction, which I have just set out, and the resources, which will be included in the Government’s budget, with the biggest settlement for the health service. I am very pleased that we have parliamentary support for the budget, but it is well shown that the Conservatives are not part of the agreement to move the health service forward in any way, shape or form.

Russell Findlay (Conservative, West Scotland)

I hope that John Swinney heard what the British Medical Association had to say about his speech. Dr Iain Kennedy of the BMA said:

“we still lack the detail and comprehensive vision needed to make any plan a reality.”

In a classic case of Government by press release, all that matters to John Swinney is an easy headline; he has no interest in the difficult job of delivery. I will give an example of that. Six years ago, all NHS patients south of the border were given an app through which to access information. They can make appointments, order prescriptions, view medical records and more. Two years later, in 2021, the SNP announced plans for a Scottish NHS app, but there is no app, and John Swinney has had the audacity to announce it all over again. The SNP has kept Scotland’s NHS trapped in the analogue age. When exactly will Scottish patients get access to that vital technology?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

What I set out on Monday and what have been followed up in regular engagements between me, the health secretary and health service leadership around the country are practical steps to improve the health service and to secure delivery.

We will concentrate on steps such as expanding the NHS Scotland pharmacy first service to improve access to healthcare and increasing general practice capacity in the country through a £10.5 million investment to expand its activity. We will deliver a new acute interior eye condition service, which will free up a combined 40,000 hospital appointments per year in Scotland. We will expand the capacity of hospital at home to create at least 2,000 beds by 2026. We will expand capacity at national treatment centres, and a number of other centres—Gartnavel general hospital, Inverclyde royal hospital, Stracathro hospital, Perth royal infirmary, Queen Margaret hospital and the Golden Jubilee hospital in Clydebank—will deliver extra cataract procedures. We will also reduce the radiology backlog. I hope that that is enough detail to show that, while—[ Interruption .] I am very happy to go on, Presiding Officer.

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

I am content that your response is complete, First Minister. However, before I call Mr Findlay again, I remind members that the purpose of this session is scrutiny. If we have on-going noise in the chamber, all that is happening is that fewer members will have an opportunity to put a question. I ask all members to bear that in mind.

Russell Findlay (Conservative, West Scotland)

I was not making a single noise. I was just smiling in incredulity, because I asked the First Minister about an app and he went off and read from a different script. That answer tells patients that the Government has no idea when the app will appear—if it does.

That is not the only reheated promise that John Swinney made this week. A decade ago, the SNP announced plans to create a network of national treatment centres. They were supposed to be all over the country—[ Interruption .]—if Shona Robison would care to listen. But here we are: the centre in Livingston is not open, Ayrshire is not open, Perth is not open, Lanarkshire is not open, Edinburgh is not open, and—[ Interruption .]

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Thank you, members.

Russell Findlay (Conservative, West Scotland)

—Aberdeen is not open. Now, John Swinney is again making the same old promises to deliver national treatment centres. Can he please tell the truth to the thousands of Scottish patients who are waiting in agony: when will those centres actually open?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

Here is some truth for Parliament. [ Interruption .] In the years of austerity under the Conservative Government, the capital budgets of the devolved Governments and the United Kingdom Government were slashed. Why? Because of economic and fiscal incompetence by the Conservatives. That is what happened.

I am now going to deliver the national treatment centres. What has certainly not helped me—[ Interruption .]

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Members!

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

What has not helped me has been Mr Findlay’s support for the economics of the madhouse, which was brought forward by Liz Truss, whom he wanted me to follow. [ Interruption .] Mr Findlay wanted me to do exactly what Liz Truss had done. Thank goodness I never followed the stupid ideas of Liz Truss and Russell Findlay.

Russell Findlay (Conservative, West Scotland)

I only asked the man when he is opening those treatment centres. What we heard back is the populist party’s disease of blaming someone else for its failings. The SNP Government gets record funding and it is continuing to pick the pockets of taxpayers. The state of the NHS in Scotland is entirely on that lot over there. The SNP needs to stop chasing headlines and start doing some hard work. We need a health secretary who is focused on the job. The projects that are in the press releases need to be delivered, and taxpayers’ money should be spent much more effectively.

Right now, across Scotland’s health service, more than £850 million is being spent on communications, human resources and other departments. That is almost £1 billion a year spent on backroom corporate functions, not front-line medical services. If the SNP attempted to cut that bloated bureaucracy and kept its countless promises, waiting lists could come down. Would it not be better to spend less money on back-office staff and more money on doctors and nurses?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

It would not be possible to spend more money on doctors and nurses if I followed Mr Findlay’s tax plans, which would cut £1 billion from public expenditure. That would be stupidity on stilts from the Conservative Party, to add to all the other economic chaos that it has created.

The Parliament will face a very simple choice in a few weeks. Mr Findlay wants me to prioritise the health service and make sure that investment is in place. Investment is in place, but the Parliament has to vote for it. What will the Conservatives do? They will vote against a record funding settlement for the health service. That tells us all that we need to know. For all that posturing from the Conservatives, they do not care about the national health service.

Anas Sarwar (Labour, Glasgow)

This week, the Scottish National Party attempted to launch yet another NHS recovery plan. Having been in charge of Scotland’s NHS for 18 years, it has lost touch with reality and all credibility.

The Royal College of Nursing has said:

“Many nursing staff will not recognise the first minister’s description of a resilient and robust NHS in Scotland. Their current experience is of a service struggling to meet the needs of patients and leaving them to carry the burden of not being able to deliver the care and treatment required.”

The British Medical Association Scotland has said that the plan lacks

“the detail and comprehensive vision needed to make any plan a reality.”

Unison has said that the First Minister’s hollow promises of “jam tomorrow” will not solve the critical problems facing the NHS in Scotland.

Why does John Swinney think that he is right and that Scotland’s nurses, doctors and patients are wrong?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

As Mr Sarwar knows, because I told him last week, I am engaging directly with all the interested parties in the health service to make sure that we create cohesive leadership and a focused agenda to improve and strengthen the national health service. That is what is occupying my time, and it is what is occupying the time of the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care. We are getting on with doing that.

We are not promising jam tomorrow; we are promising the largest budget settlement for the national health service in a few weeks, and the folk who are not going to vote for it are that lot, Labour, and that lot, the Conservatives.

Anas Sarwar (Labour, Glasgow)

John Swinney has been passing budgets for 17 years and things are still getting worse in Scotland—I just remind him of that.

We have had five NHS recovery plans in less than four years. Of plan 1, in August 2021, the SNP First Minister said:

“This plan will drive the recovery of our NHS—not just to its pre-pandemic level, but beyond.”

Instead, we are doing 50,000 fewer operations compared with pre-pandemic levels.

In launching plan 2 in July 2022, the SNP health secretary said:

“I am announcing some of the most ambitious targets in the UK.”

The SNP Government did not meet a single one of them.

In October 2023, the SNP First Minister said that plan 3 would cut waiting lists by 100,000. Instead, waiting lists went up by 20,000.

Of plan 4, in June 2024, the SNP health secretary said:

“I am not looking to publish another strategy. ... Our task now centres on listening and delivery.”—[Official Report, 4 June 2024; c 56.]

This week, we have a new plan and a new strategy. After such a record of failure, why should anyone believe John Swinney and the SNP?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

Mr Sarwar has made the same mistake that Jackie Baillie made last week of saying that things are getting worse week by week. I go back to the same information that I put on the record last week. On accident and emergency waiting times, four-hour performance has increased week on week since the week ending 22 December. Jackie Baillie and Anas Sarwar are once again saying— [ Interruption .]

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Members, let us hear the First Minister.

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

—things that are not true.

In my speech on Monday, the Government set out a series of interventions to strengthen the national health service and its capacity by delivering extra procedures at a number of centres around the country, by improving referrals through radiology services and expanding the rapid cancer diagnostic service, and by making sure that we expand capacity in a range of different disciplines through eye condition care and the NHS Scotland pharmacy service.

Those are the practical steps that will make a difference, but they will happen only if the Government’s budget passes. Who stands in the way of the Government’s budget passing? Who is not going to lift a finger to support and endorse that investment? The Labour Party in Scotland—Labour members should be ashamed of themselves.

Anas Sarwar (Labour, Glasgow)

That answer proves why John Swinney cannot fix the problems in our NHS. Scotland’s NHS is in desperate need of reform, but the brutal truth is that John Swinney cannot see the damage that his party has done. He cannot see it, but I will tell you who can: the 863,000 people who are stuck on NHS waiting lists, the 100,000 Scots who have been waiting for more than a year for treatment, the record number of people who have been forced to pay to go private and the staff who his Government is failing every single day.

We need a Scottish Government that will do whatever it takes to clear the NHS backlogs and make sure that the NHS is there when Scots need it—always free at the point of need and fit for the future. After 18 years, why can John Swinney not see that Scotland does not need another failed SNP First Minister, another failed SNP health secretary or another failed SNP plan? It needs a new Government and a new direction.

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

There was not a single solution offered by Anas Sarwar—not one. [ Interruption. ]

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Let us hear the First Minister.

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

Listen—we will be here for as long as it takes for me to explain my point to the Parliament. [Interruption.] I see that Mr Sarwar’s allies have come to the rescue!

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

From the screen in front of me, I am aware that a huge number of members would really like to put a question today. I am very keen that our constituents have an opportunity to hear this session. I ask all members to bear that in mind.

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

Presiding Officer, I see that Mr Sarwar’s allies in the Conservative Party have come to his rescue once again. There was not a single solution offered by Anas Sarwar in all of that long diatribe to Parliament, because he is high on rhetoric and low on delivery. [Interruption.]

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Thank you, members.

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

Mr Sarwar promised the WASPI women—women against state pension inequality—in Scotland that he would be at their side. At the first whiff of change, the Labour Government came in and shut the door on the WASPI women. That is why Mr Sarwar is high on rhetoric and low on delivery, and why Scotland does not take him seriously.

Alex Cole-Hamilton (Liberal Democrat, Edinburgh Western)

To ask the First Minister when the Cabinet will next meet. (S6F-03751)

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

The Cabinet will meet next Tuesday and ministers will have the opportunity to consider the implications for the Scottish budget of the welcome agreement that has been reached with the Scottish Liberal Democrats, the Scottish Green Party and Alba. All that we are waiting for is some common sense to break out in the Labour Party and the Conservatives.

Alex Cole-Hamilton (Liberal Democrat, Edinburgh Western)

It is because of the Liberal Democrats that the Scottish budget now includes a new Belford hospital in Fort William; a replacement eye pavilion for Edinburgh; support services for babies born addicted to drugs; investment to make it easier for people to see their general practitioner or a national health service dentist; long Covid care pathways; backing for hospices; new skills pipelines for care and for offshore wind power; business rates relief for hospitality; more affordable homes; a better future for young people at Corseford college; the right for family carers to earn more; and more money for councils, ferries and social care. Our priorities will now be backed by hundreds of millions of pounds of Government investment. That is Liberal Democrats acting responsibly, setting aside differences and getting things done.

We also fought for a winter fuel payment for Scotland’s pensioners, and it is happening. That matters, because we learned this week that a third of households are in fuel poverty. After 18 years of Scottish National Party Government, why are so many people still freezing in cold homes?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

First of all, this is the first time that I have formally had the opportunity to welcome, in Parliament, the support that the Liberal Democrats have expressed for the Government’s budget and for the agreements that we have reached on policy priorities—which we have also reached with members of the Green Party and with the member from Alba. That is an indication of how Parliament should work.

Over the course of Mr Cole-Hamilton’s question, he was subjected to yah-boo behaviour, principally of the Conservatives, who have contributed absolutely nothing to, and have achieved absolutely nothing out of, the budget process. Those are their actions and conduct. The Labour Party is in exactly the same place—it has achieved nothing out of the budget process to date.

I say to Mr Cole-Hamilton that parties have to work together in the common interests of the people of Scotland. I welcome the collaboration that has taken place, because the Government is interested in delivering solutions for the people of Scotland, and not in coming here to posture, as the Labour and Conservative parties are doing. We are interested in doing the hard work to deliver for the people of Scotland. We will deliver a winter fuel payment for pensioners, and the Labour Party and the Tories will not support it when the budget comes to Parliament.

Kevin Stewart (Scottish National Party, Aberdeen Central)

To ask the First Minister what the Scottish Government’s response is to the recent CBI report, which reportedly suggests that businesses are preparing to “cut staff and raise prices”. (S6F-03764)

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

I was deeply concerned by what I read in the CBI report on business confidence in the United Kingdom. In my regular engagement with Scottish business, I hear directly that the impact of the recent employer national insurance contribution increases at a UK level is a significant factor.

The Scottish budget for 2025-26 includes a raft of measures to support business and economic growth, as well as enhanced measures to attract private investment.

Kevin Stewart (Scottish National Party, Aberdeen Central)

The CBI’s monthly survey highlights weak hiring intentions, with business and professional services expecting a 20 per cent reduction in head count, while consumer services anticipate a sharper 44 per cent fall. Labour’s employer national insurance hike is a tax on jobs, and the decisions relating to it are already beginning to bite. What engagement has the First Minister’s Government had with the UK Government to get it to see sense and to rethink its daft decision to tax jobs, so that we can protect the Scottish economy?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

I have raised the impact of the planned increase in reserved taxation with the UK Government and I wrote to the Chancellor of the Exchequer earlier this month. The Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government has also raised the issue with the Treasury.

We have made clear the wide-ranging concerns about the impact that the change—which was introduced with no consultation—will have on Scotland. The UK Government seems determined to ignore those concerns, but we will continue to raise the issue and the impact that it will have on the Scottish economy. The Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government will raise the issue with the Chief Secretary to the Treasury next month.

It seems to me that that particular decision is having a damaging effect on the UK Government’s growth agenda. Although I am wholly supportive of that agenda, that measure is counterproductive to trying to deliver growth in the economy.

Murdo Fraser (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

The First Minister is entirely right to raise concerns about Labour’s tax on jobs, but the Scottish Government’s budget for the coming year, which he encourages us to support, does little or nothing to support businesses in Scotland. According to the Scottish Parliament information centre, spending on three key areas to help to grow the economy—the enterprise agencies, VisitScotland and employability schemes—has been cut compared with the past financial year, while the Barnett consequentials from rates relief that is available south of the border for retail, hospitality and leisure businesses are not being passed on in this budget, which short-changes Scottish business. Why is the Government not doing more to support Scottish business?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

I know that Mr Fraser was a contender for the leadership of the Scottish Conservatives, but he has just given an answer that is directly contradictory to the position of his party leader. His party leader wants us to cut the budgets of agencies—he said that he wants us to get rid of them. However, Mr Fraser has just argued for an expansion of the budgets of economic development agencies.

For the record, I happen to think that Scotland today is extremely well served by our economic development agencies: Scottish Enterprise, Highlands and Islands Enterprise, South of Scotland Enterprise, VisitScotland and Skills Development Scotland. They work very well for Scotland, in that they attract significant investment and visitor numbers. We could add to that the capital investment for offshore wind, which we are increasing to £150 million; the £100 million for digital connectivity programmes that we are rolling out; the investment that we are putting into planning services; and the support that we have put in place for non-domestic rates relief, which is worth an estimated £731 million. All those measures show that this Government is on the side of business, as is demonstrated by business’s endorsement of our budget. I think that the Conservatives should support it.

Jackson Carlaw (Conservative, Eastwood)

To ask the First Minister whether he will join His Majesty the King and other world leaders in commemorating the 80th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz extermination camp and offer his reflections on the theme of this year’s Holocaust memorial day, “For a Better Future”. (S6F-03762)

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

On Holocaust memorial day, we honour the 6 million Jews who were murdered by the Nazis in one of the darkest chapters in human history. As we proclaim, “Never again”, we also reflect on the subsequent genocides in Cambodia, Rwanda, Bosnia and Darfur.

This year, we commemorate the 80th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz. I welcome the decision of His Majesty the King to travel to Auschwitz to represent us all at the commemoration. This evening, alongside Mr Carlaw and the Minister for Victims and Community Safety, I will participate in the Scottish ceremony for Holocaust memorial day. At that event, we will stand united against hatred and for building one Scotland, together, for a better future.

Jackson Carlaw (Conservative, Eastwood)

I welcome the First Minister’s participation in tonight’s event, which I will co-host with my Labour colleague Paul O’Kane.

I commend the First Minister and the Scottish Government on their work to ensure that Holocaust education schemes across Scotland are second to none in comparison with those available in the rest of the United Kingdom. It is a real tribute to the efforts of the Scottish Parliament, and the various Governments that have presided within it, that Holocaust education in Scotland is as remarkable as it is. If this year’s theme is “For a Better Future”, we must surely realise that that future depends not on us but on the generation that follows. Fundamentally, such education programmes are critical to the understanding of the next generation. Will the First Minister commit to ensuring that the funding of such programmes continues in perpetuity?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

First, I associate myself with Mr Carlaw’s comments about Paul O’Kane’s hosting of tonight’s event. I welcome cross-party co-operation on this question.

In his members’ business debate last night—in which, as ever, Mr Carlaw gave the deep and solemn commitment that he has always given to the issue—he generously referred to the fact that I had taken part in one of the visits to Auschwitz by Scottish school pupils that are supported by the Scottish Government. He correctly indicated that the experience that I had that day will never leave me. I saw, too, the profound impact on the young people who travelled with me on that occasion. For me, that was an indication of the value of the investment that the Government makes in ensuring that future generations understand and appreciate the awfulness of what happened in the Holocaust, and of why those generations must be reminded of it.

Mr Carlaw has my unequivocal commitment that, for as long as I am First Minister, this Government will be a firm funder of Holocaust memorial education in Scotland. I see that as part of our obligations to the past and the future, and it will have my unreserved support as First Minister.

Collette Stevenson (Scottish National Party, East Kilbride)

To ask the First Minister, in light of the Joseph Rowntree Foundation report, “UK Poverty 2025”, whether he will provide an update on the Scottish Government’s actions to tackle poverty in Scotland, including in relation to any potential impact of planned United Kingdom Government welfare reforms. (S6F-03773)

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

I welcome the Joseph Rowntree Foundation’s report and its analysis, which finds that Scotland is the only part of the United Kingdom that will see child poverty rates declining, thanks to policies such as the Scottish child payment.

Through the Scottish budget for 2025-26, we will go further by committing resources to develop the systems that are required to mitigate the impact of the two-child limit. The Child Poverty Action Group estimates that scrapping the two-child limit could lift a further 15,000 children in Scotland out of poverty.

Collette Stevenson (Scottish National Party, East Kilbride)

In its report, the Joseph Rowntree Foundation confirms that

“Child poverty rates in Scotland ... remain much lower than those in England ... and Wales ... due, at least in part, to the Scottish Child Payment.”

Although that is very welcome, the Labour UK Government is doubling down on austerity measures such as the two-child limit, the bedroom tax and the benefit cap, and it is now pursuing welfare reforms that could slash benefits for hundreds of thousands of long-term ill and disabled people.

Will the First Minister offer an assessment of the potential impact of UK welfare reforms on poverty levels in Scotland and outline how the draft Scottish budget for 2025-26 will expand anti-poverty work here?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

In its analysis, the Joseph Rowntree Foundation says that it expects the gap between the child poverty rate in Scotland and rates in the rest of the UK to widen because of the action that we are taking to tackle the issue through measures such as the Scottish child payment.

I encourage the Labour Government to take a different course from the one that has been advertised. It is maintaining the two-child limit. Although the Scottish Government will act to remove that in Scotland, our task would be made easier if the issue was remedied at UK level.

We will take every measure that we can. In the budget, we are taking further measures on the two-child limit and the expansion of free school meals in an effort to address child poverty, which is the overriding priority of my Government.

Paul O'Kane (Labour, West Scotland)

The Joseph Rowntree Foundation’s report is, of course, serious and sobering, as it is every year. It shows that the child poverty rate in Scotland is static at 24 per cent, which means that 250,000 children are in poverty. The First Minister and I have previously had constructive debates on the matter, and it will not be lost on him or members across the chamber that the current rate means that we are seriously off course with regard to meeting the statutory child poverty targets that are set by the Parliament.

The report also highlights that a higher than average proportion of working-age adults are unemployed or economically inactive and that households in Scotland in which someone is in work took home a lower level of earnings than the UK average.

Does the First Minister recognise the importance of supporting people into secure, well-paid work? Given the cuts to employability services over recent years, what is his Government doing to reverse the trends that are outlined in the report?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

Those are important questions. As the Government’s “Bright Start, Best Futures” strategy indicates, the way to tackle child poverty is through a combination of measures, such as the provision of direct payments, as in the case of the Scottish child payment, or through the provision of employability support, childcare support or transport support, all of which are part of the Government’s budget proposals.

On economic inactivity, the Government is safeguarding funding for employability schemes. Given our confidence that the budget will be passed by the Parliament, as a consequence of our agreement with partners in the Parliament, we are able to give early certainty to employability schemes in Scotland, which they did not have last year, given the financial challenges that we faced. There will be much more certainty about the roll-out of employability programmes from 1 April, and the Deputy First Minister and the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government are giving such assurances to organisations around the country.

I know that Mr O’Kane is deadly serious about tackling child poverty, and he knows that I am, too. That is where I get a bit concerned about where parliamentary discourse has got to, because there is a budget to be voted for. Mr O’Kane wants employability support to be put in place for members of the public in Scotland, and so do I. I am going to vote for it, and I hope that he and his colleagues will, too.

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

I have received 25 requests from members who wish to ask constituency and general supplementary questions. If members are concise, we will be able to get through more questions and involve more members.

Elena Whitham (Scottish National Party, Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley)

Recent research from Pro Bono Economics has found that disability benefits improve people’s health and wellbeing and are more positive than costly for the economy. Meanwhile, the United Kingdom Labour Government has proposed cutting UK disability payments, as we have heard from my colleague Collette Stevenson, which has caused widespread concern among stakeholders. What assessment has the Scottish Government made of that new research? Can the First Minister provide assurances that, unlike the UK Government, the Scottish National Party Government in Scotland will continue to deliver social security that is based on the principles of dignity and respect?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

Those principles are enshrined in law because this Government put them into law. We intend to follow that through consistently; my colleague Elena Whitham has my absolute assurance on that.

The Government is investing about £1.3 billion more than the funding that we are forecast to receive from the UK Government through the social security block grant adjustment, because we want to invest in supporting people to be able to make as much of an economic contribution as they can. That will be the ethos of this Government.

Elizabeth Smith (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

Will the First Minister join me in condemning what has been the third data breach by NHS Tayside of patient confidentiality in the Sam Eljamel case, which has further undermined the trust of former patients? The matter is now, rightly, in the hands of the Scottish Information Commissioner, but what action can the Scottish Government take to stop such data breaches ever happening again?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

The law on freedom of information is absolutely crystal clear, and all organisations should comply with it and follow its provisions. If the matter is being looked at by the Scottish Information Commissioner, I will leave him to undertake his statutory duty.

Claire Baker (Labour, Mid Scotland and Fife)

The First Minister will be aware of reports regarding the sudden death of Demi Hannaway in May 2021. Demi’s parents are calling for an examination into her death, which was recorded as suicide, and have lodged a formal complaint about the police response, saying that there was absolutely no investigation.

Demi was subject to physical and mental abuse at the hands of her partner, who was jailed last year after admitting to threatening and abusive behaviour. Her family believes that obvious lines of inquiry regarding her death were not pursued. It has also emerged that the pathologist in the case was not informed by the police that Demi’s partner had a history of strangling her.

Will the Scottish Government consider ordering a review of the investigation of Demi’s death?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

I am familiar with those details and extend my sympathies to the family of Demi Hannaway. I understand the family’s concerns about the information that has been put in the public domain and am familiar with the fact that a complaint has been made and is being handled by the professional standards channel of Police Scotland.

The Crown reserves the right in all circumstances to review any new evidence in a particular case. It does that independently of the Government, so it would be wrong for me to prejudge any of that information. However, I will raise with the Lord Advocate the point that Claire Baker has made to me about the family’s desire for further investigation of the case, because taking that forward would have to be a matter for the Crown, given the circumstances. I give Claire Baker the assurance that I will do that as a consequence of our exchange today.

Clare Adamson (Scottish National Party, Motherwell and Wishaw)

This week marks the fifth anniversary of the United Kingdom’s exit from the European Union. A recent report by the Institute for Public Policy Research highlighted the slump in trade with the EU and said that trade policy had been “muddled” and “rudderless” since the 2016 vote on Brexit. Will the First Minister give his response to that report, and does he agree that Brexit has been an economic disaster for Scotland and that it would be in Scotland’s best interests to return to the EU as an independent nation?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

I agree with Clare Adamson on both points: that Scotland would be best served by being an independent member of the EU, and that Brexit has been an economic disaster for Scotland as part of the United Kingdom. It is as a consequence of our membership of the United Kingdom that we have lost our EU membership.

The economic damage done is obvious. That is what is undermining living standards in this country. I accept and acknowledge that and have a solution to it, which is that we should repair our relationship with the European Union and ensure that our businesses and organisations can trade and that we can benefit from freedom of movement.

I assure Parliament that we are encouraging the United Kingdom Government to repair the damage that has been done to our economy and to our relationship with Europe. The living standards of our population depend on that, and it must be given greater priority than it has been given since the change of Government in July last year.

Sharon Dowey (Conservative, South Scotland)

The Scottish Retail Consortium reports that theft has reached record levels, costing businesses £170 million last year, and that violence towards shop workers is on the rise, with an average of 170 incidents every day over the year 2023-24. The situation is spiralling out of control as perpetrators are becoming more brazen. It is clear that thieves simply do not fear committing their crimes. What is the Scottish Government’s plan to ensure that shoplifters, many of whom are violent, are made to pay for their actions and know that their actions will have consequences?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

The Minister for Employment and Investment, Tom Arthur, met the industry leadership group, which involves the many retail interests, on this subject this morning. In the budget, subject to parliamentary approval, we will make £3 million available to tackle retail crime, and we commit ourselves to supporting some of the innovative work that has been taken forward by the Scottish partnership against acquisitive crime, which is led by Police Scotland and the retailers. The partnership is taking a collaborative approach to preventing and deterring crimes such as shoplifting, and we will work constructively to ensure that that happens, using the resources that I mentioned, which I hope Parliament will support in the budget process.

Foysol Choudhury (Labour, Lothian)

I was recently contacted by a constituent who is on the waiting list for social housing with her 13-year-old daughter. They have been sharing a room and a bed for nine months, and by the time they are allocated housing, her daughter will be 16 years old. Does the First Minister think that that is in any way positive for their wellbeing? Will his Government finally step up with real action to end the housing emergency and unacceptable waiting times for social homes?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

I sympathise with the circumstances of Mr Choudhury’s constituent. I of course want individuals in our country to be adequately and properly housed.

As Mr Choudhury knows, because I have told Parliament this on many occasions, the Scottish Government has presided over an affordable housing building programme that has built more houses per head of population in Scotland than have been built in any other part of the United Kingdom. Crucially, in the budget that will be before Parliament in a few weeks’ time, there is an increase in that budget to £768 million. Mr Choudhury is quite entitled—indeed, it is his duty—to bring his constituents’ concerns here and represent them. I contend that it is also Mr Choudhury’s duty to try to make solutions happen by voting for the budget and helping to build more houses and ensure that we can get more void houses being used by people. [ Interruption .]

There is no point in Labour members shouting at me, as they have done all the time today. That is the solution. If we want to build houses, how do we pay for them if we do not have the votes for the budget? I encourage Labour members to stop being observers on the sidelines, sitting there with their Tory allies. They should vote for the budget and do something constructive for Scotland.

Fergus Ewing (Scottish National Party, Inverness and Nairn)

Given the vital importance to the Highlands and Islands of access in order to export our fine malt whiskies, our high-quality salmon and shellfish and many other products, will the Scottish Government provide its full-throated and unequivocal support for the third runway at Heathrow, which is the future gateway for Scottish Highlands and Islands exports to the willing world?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

The decision to allow expansion at Heathrow airport lies exclusively with the United Kingdom Government. The Scottish Government will engage closely with the UK Government and Heathrow airport to understand any potential impact of its expansion on Scotland, particularly on our climate targets and connectivity.

I share Mr Ewing’s aspiration that Scottish goods should be able to get to market as quickly as possible, but I am reminded that, when I was in Shetland a few months ago, the fish sector explained to me the obstacles that are in its way to get its products to market because of the stupid procedures that are involved in Brexit, which are deeply damaging to our economy.

If we want to get Scottish produce more quickly from the Shetland Islands and other communities in Scotland to European markets, the immediate priority of my Government would be to get agreements in place with the European Union that would allow freer trade to be undertaken. What I say to people in Scotland is that they have to understand the colossal damage that was done to our country’s economy by Brexit, which was inflicted on us by a bad deal by the Conservatives. I hope that the Labour Government will do something to rectify that, because it is undermining the Scottish economy.

Sue Webber (Conservative, Lothian)

Today, the Auditor General and the Accounts Commission have said that the Scottish Government has made “minimal progress” on its target to reduce car usage by 2030 and that the target has no clear delivery plan—that always sounds familiar. To reduce car usage, it is essential to have affordable public transport, yet, under the Scottish National Party, Scots seem to be turning away from those services in droves. Does the First Minister believe that the 2030 target is still achievable, or is it another headline-grabbing deadline that was never going to be delivered?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

The Government has made a range of interventions to improve access to public transport. For example, more than 2 million children, young people, disabled people and older people in Scotland are now benefiting from free bus travel. Throughout Scotland, more than 150 million bus journeys have been made by children and young people under 22, using their free entitlement. We have been working to expand the opportunities for people to safely walk, wheel and cycle, with the expansion of the network to around 450 miles of routes for walking, wheeling and cycling.

The Government will do that as part of its plans, but it is, frankly, laughable for Sue Webber to take me to task on the issue. Every time that a measure is presented to Parliament that might change any of those patterns of behaviour, who opposes it? The Conservatives do—every single one of them, and then they come here every week and posture with empty rhetoric about such issues. If Sue Webber wants investment in public transport, I gently and respectfully encourage her to vote for the budget that will pay for it, instead of wasting her time coming here and posturing on a weekly basis.

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

That concludes First Minister’s question time. There will now be a short suspension to allow those leaving the chamber and the public gallery to do so.

Environmental Standards Scotland (Appointment of Board Members)

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

The next item of business is consideration of motion S6M-16275, in the name of Gillian Martin, on appointment of board members to the board of Environmental Standards Scotland. I call Alasdair Allan to move the motion.

Motion moved,

That the Parliament notes the Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee’s consideration of the re-appointment of four board members to the board of Environmental Standards Scotland at its meeting on 26 November 2024; welcomes the committee's recommendation that the Parliament approves the re-appointment of Marie Fallon and Dr Paul McAleavey for a further four years, and Dr Richard Dixon and Dr Annalisa Savaresi for a further three years, in accordance with schedule 1, paragraph 2(5) and (6) of the UK Withdrawal from the European Union (Continuity) (Scotland) Act 2021, and approves the appointments as required by schedule 1, paragraph 2(2) of the Act.—[Alasdair Allan]

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

The question on the motion will be put at decision time.

Portfolio Question Time

Annabelle Ewing (Scottish National Party, Cowdenbeath)

Good afternoon. The next item of business this afternoon is portfolio question time, and the portfolio today is education and skills. As ever, I would appreciate succinct questions, with responses to match, to get in as many members as possible.

Ben Macpherson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Northern and Leith)

To ask the Scottish Government how it is engaging with local authorities to enable supply teachers to work in and across a number of different local authority areas. (S6O-04274)

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

Supply teachers have flexibility over the work that they choose to do, in line with the Scottish Negotiating Committee for Teachers’ code of practice on short-term supply, and they may add themselves to multiple local authority supply lists, as they see fit. Supply teaching is an important way for teachers to work flexibly and according to their individual needs, when they choose to do so.

The Scottish Government is also providing local authorities with £186.5 million next year to restore overall teacher numbers across the country to 2023 levels.

Ben Macpherson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Northern and Leith)

I am grateful for that answer, and I appreciate that much of the matter is for local authorities.

Some of the casework that I have received from constituents who are supply teachers indicates that they are struggling to access opportunities in neighbouring local authorities. Schools also sometimes struggle to get supply teachers from other local authorities, including across the various Lothians local authorities. That has made it challenging for schools to get supply teachers, on occasion. Would there be any convening power or other engagement that the Scottish Government could have to improve systems and co-ordination in order to better marry supply with demand, in particular between neighbouring and nearby local authorities?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

Ben Macpherson has raised an interesting point. He outlined that responsibility as the employer rests with local authorities, but there is a role for the Government in terms of a convening power. I am pleased that, through our new agreement with local government through the budget process, we have been able to get agreement with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities on a new education assurance board. I will be keen to raise the issue there.

More broadly, the differing approaches to employment that are taken by local authorities can create challenges for teachers who are looking to obtain employment via the supply list. I will certainly take that matter to the education assurance board, because it is worth considering at national level.

Pam Duncan-Glancy (Labour, Glasgow)

The reality is that teachers are being left somewhat in limbo. I have said much about that in the Parliament, so I will not repeat it.

However, I will explain what teachers are saying. One has said that they are now

“stuck on supply and have lost hope of ever getting another temp contract”.

Another, with five to eight years of experience, has said:

“I have worked in 3 councils in Scotland and have never had anything more than a Fixed Term Contract ... In this session 24/25 I didn’t get anything until the 3rd week of the term”

and

“I would love to have a bit of security, even just for a year again so I can save some money”.

Those are the experiences of teachers who are working in supply today. Will the cabinet secretary now admit that workforce planning in education is not working? What will she do to turn that around?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

I thank Pam Duncan-Glancy for her interest in the matter. The workforce planning is informed by modelling by our universities, which give advice to the Government and local authorities. That is undertaken every year at the national level.

It is also worth recounting that, in 2023, we reduced the numbers in teacher training. I have on my desk advice to that end for the next financial year. I am not going to give that confirmation today in the Parliament, but it is important that we train the right number of teachers.

The other thing to be mindful of is that some teachers opt to take supply roles, and we need to be mindful of the choice that is inherent in that. For example, some teachers want to stay in the central belt, where there are fewer permanent posts than there might be in other parts of the country. That might be because they are not, for good reason, able to move for those posts. Since 2014, the number of permanent posts has remained relatively stable, at approximately 80 per cent.

I accept that there is a challenge here, and I am keen to work with local authority partners on how we resolve it. Pam Duncan-Glancy will recognise the additionality that the Government has provided in the budget, which will go some way towards giving local authorities certainty to create more permanent posts, and I look forward to working with them on the assurance group that I mentioned in my earlier response to the previous question.

Willie Rennie (Liberal Democrat, North East Fife)

The workforce planning has been dreadful for years, and the result is that there are thousands of teachers out there who just cannot get permanent work. Sometimes they are waiting on short-term contracts for up to seven years.

When will the Government get on top of workforce planning to ensure that the current situation is not repeated, so that we get the right teachers in the right places? There are some places that have shortages in key subjects. When will we get the balance and the workforce planning right?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

I do not necessarily agree with Mr Rennie’s assertions about workforce planning. It is not the responsibility only of the Government, but of local authorities. Every year, we undertake consultation in partnership with key stakeholders—including universities, as I mentioned—through the teacher workforce planning advisory group.

I talked about the reduction in intake measures in recent years. I am currently considering advice on that. However, it is hugely important that we work with local authorities on areas where there are gaps.

I remind Willie Rennie of a point that I have made in the chamber previously. Since the pandemic, we have seen far fewer teachers opting to tick the preference waiver payment box, which incentivises teachers to go anywhere in the country by giving them an up-front payment of £8,000. Fewer teachers are opting to move around the country—that creates challenges. Such challenges exist not only in education but in health and other parts of our public services. We need to work with local authorities to solve them, and the new assurance group gives us an opportunity to do that.

Miles Briggs (Conservative, Lothian)

To ask the Scottish Government what discussions the education secretary has had with ministerial colleagues regarding action to improve access to books for, and encourage reading by, children and young people. (S6O-04275)

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

I engage with ministerial colleagues on a wide range of matters. In relation to access to books and support for reading, we have a shared interest and responsibility across the education, local government and culture portfolios.

Thanks to that joint working, the Government has funded a large number of initiatives, of which Mr Briggs will be aware, including “Every child a library member”, “Bookbug”, “Read, write, count with the First Minister”, the “Reading schools” initiative and national schemes to promote both public and school libraries in partnership with the Scottish Library and Information Council.

Miles Briggs (Conservative, Lothian)

I recently visited Craiglockhart primary school to see its free school library, which operates outside the school, 365 days a year, 24 hours a day, where children can help themselves to books, parents can give used books and the whole school community can access them. It is a great example of a children’s free library.

Has the cabinet secretary had any engagement with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities to make sure that every primary school across Scotland could have one of those built outside their school?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

Miles Briggs has raised an important point about school library provision. In my work as education secretary, I go in and out of schools almost weekly and I see the power of strong school libraries. Mr Briggs spoke about the importance of their being open to the community. We provide funding through the school library improvement fund, which has provided additionality since 2017. In the past year, 17 schools have received shares of that investment to promote reading and to help to raise attainment.

I will take back to my officials the matter that Mr Briggs has raised about our engagement with COSLA. The new assurance board that I mentioned in my previous responses gives us an opportunity to raise that point, which I think is very worth while to pursue.

Bill Kidd (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Anniesland)

The investments that the Scottish Government has made are clearly having an impact. With that in mind, what do the newest statistics, which were released in December, show about the level of literacy in Scotland’s schools?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

The curriculum for excellence levels that were published last year show some real improvement. They show record levels of achievement in literacy in Scotland’s primary and secondary schools, which I hope members across the Parliament will welcome. The statistics showed that 74 per cent of primary school pupils and 88 per cent of secondary school pupils achieved the expected curriculum for excellence levels for literacy—the highest figures on record.

They also show that the poverty-related attainment gap in literacy is the lowest on record. Although we recognise that there is still work to be done, I am grateful for the opportunity to acknowledge the progress that is being made. It is a testament to the hard work that being done by our teachers, schools, pupils and families, as well to as the investments and policies of the Government.

Colin Smyth (Labour, South Scotland)

To ask the Scottish Government what its response is to reported concerns raised by Colleges Scotland that the role of colleges is being damaged by relentlessly falling budgets. (S6O-04276)

Graeme Dey (Scottish National Party, Angus South)

The draft budget increases resource funding to colleges. Although we have not gone as far as the sector would have liked us to go, it is important to view that in the context of our other support. For example, I recently released an additional £13.4 million of resource funding into the sector to provide support with maintenance needs this financial year—which was a specific ask of the sector. Additionally, this week, we have agreed to invest a further £3.5 million in colleges through targeted support for skills in social care and offshore wind.

The Scottish Funding Council has also delivered on various asks from the sector to help to invest funds more flexibly, including by giving colleges a more flexible way to invest in vital changes to curriculums so that they can meet local and national skills needs.

Colin Smyth (Labour, South Scotland)

Borders College recently wrote to MSPs to highlight the fact that it has had to cut student activity levels, reduce modern apprenticeships and turn away students who have applied for important subjects, such as construction and engineering, because of cuts in college funding. It has also had to reduce upskilling opportunities due to

“the ... removal of the Flexible Workforce Development Fund”

and has warned that

“in line with many other colleges, Borders College will see increased financial deficits in the coming years.”

If our college sector is being properly funded, as the minister seems to imply, why is it that Borders College, Audit Scotland and Colleges Scotland are saying something different?

Graeme Dey (Scottish National Party, Angus South)

I have said many times in the chamber that I wish that we were in a stronger position to provide more funding for the colleges. The point that I am making is that there was, for example, a £50 million increase in resource provided to the colleges between 2019 and 2020 but, in that period, inflation peaked at 10 per cent, so there is a challenging situation.

As a director of the committee, I make the point that we have to view all that alongside the group’s work and the considerable progress that is being made there including—just this week—agreement to the means of taking forward measures at pace to assist the sector to deliver and become more sustainable. As the First Minister has identified previously, that includes accessing budget lines that do not necessarily sit in the education portfolio.

Brian Whittle (Conservative, South Scotland)

The minister knows well that potentially 5,000 new highly skilled engineering jobs could come to the Prestwick cluster through XLCC. One of the deciding factors will be access to a skilled workforce, because XLCC will go elsewhere if that is not available. We have a need and we have the excellent Ayrshire College that can deliver targeted investment in apprenticeships. Will the Scottish Government support Ayrshire College to deliver those 5,000 well-paid jobs for the Scottish workforce, or would it prefer that the tax take and economic growth went outside Scotland?

Graeme Dey (Scottish National Party, Angus South)

I have a sense of déjà vu because we rehearsed that argument in the chamber only a few moments ago. I am very much aware of the opportunities that exist at Ayrshire College, and we will continue conversations with it. As I said a little while ago, and as I gently say again to Mr Whittle and the Conservatives, they cannot come here and call for additional investment and support in colleges specifically in their areas at the same time as they demand £1 billion in tax cuts, which would take money out of the public purse. We cannot square that circle, contrary to what Mr Whittle suggested this morning.

Fulton MacGregor (Scottish National Party, Coatbridge and Chryston)

Does the minister agree that the UK Government’s employer national insurance contribution hike is unnecessarily lumping significant additional pressure on Scotland’s colleges? Can he confirm whether the UK Government is intending to cover those costs, given that colleges in England are to be supported?

Graeme Dey (Scottish National Party, Angus South)

I hear comments from the Labour side of the chamber. I hope that those members will listen to what I will say.

There is absolutely no doubt that the UK Government’s decision is putting more pressure on colleges. The hike in employer national insurance contributions is a significant additional burden on our colleges. I was reminded of that only yesterday in the tripartite group, where Colleges Scotland clearly expressed its concerns about the impact of the hike. It is absolutely essential that the UK Government honour its obligations to protect the public sector and ensure that there are no unintended consequences for colleges.

Martin Whitfield (Labour, South Scotland)

To ask the Scottish Government when it last met Forces Children Scotland. (S6O-04277)

Graeme Dey (Scottish National Party, Angus South)

The Minister for Children and Young People met Forces Children Scotland and a group of children and young people from armed forces families on 24 September. For my part, as Minister for Veterans, I recognise the important work that Forces Children Scotland does to support children and young people from families of serving personnel, reservists and veterans to reach their potential and thrive. That includes the work that Forces Children Scotland does collaboratively across sectors to drive improvements in support that reflect the unique challenges that those children and young people face.

Martin Whitfield (Labour, South Scotland)

I am grateful to the minister for that answer, particularly for his mention of the unique challenges that forces children face. I have been approached by a constituent, who was occasioned to have to move address and general practice surgery—within the same health authority—only to discover that she had lost her place in the waiting list for treatment. I was given to understand that that would not happen. Will the minister comment on that situation and on what is being done to ensure that our forces children get the treatment that they deserve, when they deserve it, irrespective of where they are moved to, which is outwith their control?

Graeme Dey (Scottish National Party, Angus South)

I welcome Martin Whitfield’s on-going interest in the subject, which I think he raised with me in the veterans debate that was held late last year.

It is our intention and expectation that armed forces family members should retain their relative places on waiting lists when they relocate within Scotland and from elsewhere in the United Kingdom. My officials have been working with partners, and with Scottish Government mental health leads, for example, to further understand why that might not be happening, as well as the scale of the problem, which is just as important. That will enable us to work with health boards to resolve any issues and with our service family stakeholders to manage expectations where that is appropriate.

To offer Mr Whitfield further reassurance, my officials will utilise their regular engagement with the families federations to ensure that our understanding of what is happening is consistent with the lived experience of serving families in Scotland, whether that relates to mental health services or anything else. I will be happy to update him on that work.

Clare Haughey (Scottish National Party, Rutherglen)

It is important that the Scottish Government hears directly from armed forces and veterans families to understand the issues that children and young people in such families face. What role can the Scottish armed forces education support group play? When did the group last meet?

Graeme Dey (Scottish National Party, Angus South)

The group, which is chaired by the Scottish Government, is made up of a variety of stakeholders, including representatives of the navy, the army and the air force, all of whom champion the needs of services children and young people in education. The group works collaboratively to identify and mitigate issues that affect children and young people from such families, and it actively seeks out and includes the lived experiences of such children and young people in its work. In that way, the group is helping to improve the experience of services children and their families in Scottish schools.

The group last met on 4 December 2024 and is due to meet again in March 2025. If, as Mr Whitfield has said, issues have been identified to which the group might not be alive, I would like to hear about those so that we can share them.

Miles Briggs (Conservative, Lothian)

A high number of military families have children in the independent school sector in Scotland. What discussions has the Scottish Government had on the impact of the UK Government’s introduction of VAT on school fees, and on this week’s news that the UK Government will also put VAT on school meals for those children?

Graeme Dey (Scottish National Party, Angus South)

The member will be aware that although I have responsibility for veterans I do not have responsibility for schools. I will write to him with a detailed response.

Roz McCall (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

To ask the Scottish Government how it is collaborating with third sector organisations regarding the provision of mental health, wellbeing and emotional support in schools. (S6O-04278)

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

Every child and young person should be able to access support for their mental health where and when they need it. The Scottish Government provides £16 million per year to local authorities to ensure that all pupils aged 10 and above have access to a school counsellor. It is for local authorities to determine how they deliver school counselling in their areas. For example, some authorities fund third sector organisations to deliver that service. The Scottish Government also provides pupil equity funding directly to schools. Many schools fund third sector organisations to support the mental health and wellbeing of their pupils.

Roz McCall (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

Next week marks children’s mental health week, which is spearheaded by Place2Be. The theme is “Know yourself, grow yourself”, which is about encouraging children and young people across the United Kingdom to embrace self-awareness and explore what that means for them. The Scottish Government’s failure to address the child and adolescent mental health services crisis has only exacerbated the issues that our children face, with thousands now waiting long periods for treatment after diagnosis.

As has already been stated, headteachers across Scotland use PEF to provide mental health and wellbeing support in their schools. However, Place2Be is concerned that such funding has an uncertain future. Will the cabinet secretary commit to considering how best we can continue to fund wellbeing support so that we can raise attainment and deal with the mental health crisis in our schools?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

I am happy to give that commitment today. I am somewhat surprised by the member’s assertion about the organisation that she named. Place2Be has previously received significant Government funding to provide mental health support to Scotland’s trainee teachers. The member might be aware of that programme, which operates through some of our universities. It has been transformational in providing mental health and wellbeing support to trainee teachers.

The member alluded to the use of PEF, which I mentioned in my first answer. However, that is additional funding that comes from the Government and goes directly to headteachers to empower them to invest, for example, in mental health treatment in their schools. A number of schools across the country do so, and there is also the funding that I alluded to in my original answer. I will be more than happy to engage with the member on the issue and with the organisation in question, but it is worth while recounting the significant investment that has come from the Government for mental health services in our schools.

Foysol Choudhury (Labour, Lothian)

To ask the Scottish Government how it is working to improve access to support for pupils with additional support needs, including access to speech and language therapists. (S6O-04279)

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

Our additional support for learning action plan is being delivered in partnership with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, the Association of Directors of Education in Scotland and our education partners to improve access to the support that children and young people with additional support needs require in order to reach their full potential.

We recognise the importance of language development and are investing to support early intervention in speech, language and communication, including through the national early language and communication team, which is made up of seven senior speech and language therapists who have been seconded to Education Scotland. That team is working locally and nationally to support improved outcomes in early language and communication development for children.

Foysol Choudhury (Labour, Lothian)

Research shows that there are higher levels of disruptive behaviour among children who have been identified as having communication needs, while demand for speech and language services has increased since the pandemic. The most recent data shows that there is a 17 per cent vacancy rate for speech and language therapists, and that waiting times are reaching years.

Given the on-going issues with behaviour in schools, how is the Scottish Government increasing the supply of speech and language therapists?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

I thank the member for his interest. He raises an important point about the role of specialists in our schools, which is why the Government’s budget provides an extra £29 million to local authorities specifically for such additionality. We are looking at how we can provide more funding to local authorities for specialist provision, including for speech and language therapists.

The member asked about the national picture in relation to speech and language therapists. NHS Scotland’s speech and language therapist workforce has increased by 6.7 per cent over the past decade. I hope that he welcomes that improvement.

However, I recognise the on-going challenge. It is worth recounting, again, the changes that we have seen in some of our youngest citizens post the pandemic. I have engaged with a number of early learning and childcare facilities on the issue, and I know that the Minister for Children, Young People and The Promise does so regularly.

A number of different approaches are being taken at local level. I recently visited Balmullo nursery in Fife, where the local authority is using a variety of approaches to upskill the nursery staff in relation to speech and language. Therefore, the support that is provided need not necessarily involve the provision of speech and language therapists; it can include the provision of support to upskill staff in our ELC facilities.

The extra investment in the budget will help to support that work, and I hope that the member will reconsider his party’s position on backing the budget.

Annabelle Ewing (Scottish National Party, Cowdenbeath)

Question 7 comes from Bob Doris, who joins us remotely.

Bob Doris (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn)

To ask the Scottish Government how schools promote an understanding of, and respect for, religious diversity. (S6O-04280)

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

The Scottish Government is committed to eradicating intolerance, including through our education system. That is why diversity and equality are at the heart of policies that underpin education in Scotland, such as the national guidance on uniform, and on religious and moral education.

In particular, I highlight the role that is played by our curriculum, which places a strong emphasis on supporting pupils to be responsible citizens in a tolerant and inclusive Scotland. A key example of that is the religious and moral education curriculum area, which helps pupils to understand their own beliefs, values and traditions, as well as those of others.

Bob Doris (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn)

I recently held a round-table event in Parliament with the Scottish Hindu Foundation, which has been active in raising awareness of Hinduphobia in society. The foundation rightly believes that the education of our young people has a key preventative role to play in ensuring that future generations are tolerant and understanding of, and have respect for, all faiths, including Hinduism.

It would be helpful to know how best practice in that area is shared and delivered in Scotland’s schools. More specifically, how could the Scottish Hindu Foundation engage with our education system in a structured and constructive way to offer its insights, skills and lived experience and thereby play its part in contributing to the development of the tolerant, understanding and respectful society that we all wish to promote?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

I know that Education Scotland has regular meetings with the Scottish Hindu Foundation. It also provides professional learning for teachers, which is sometimes delivered in partnership with faith and belief groups. I think that that answers the member’s question about how good practice is shared.

However, I am more than happy to ask my officials to engage further with the foundation and to consider, in particular, whether any further opportunities exist to link the foundation with work in relation to our anti-racism in education programme, as well as the package of curriculum reforms that are now well under way.

Annabelle Ewing (Scottish National Party, Cowdenbeath)

We can squeeze in question 8, as long as we have succinct questions and answers.

Rachael Hamilton (Conservative, Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire)

To ask the Scottish Government when it last met with Borders College. (S6O-04281)

Graeme Dey (Scottish National Party, Angus South)

I last met with the principal of Borders College a week ago today.

Rachael Hamilton (Conservative, Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire)

I am very glad to hear it. However, I hope that the minister was given the information that Scottish National Party cuts will mean that colleges such as Borders College will have to make very stark choices. They will have to narrow their curriculum, reduce student support or close some of the subject areas, the result of which will be fewer opportunities and poorer outcomes for learners. What message can I take when I visit Borders College tomorrow to reassure it that the Scottish Government will support it so that it does not have to make those stark choices?

Graeme Dey (Scottish National Party, Angus South)

The purpose of last week’s meeting was to engage closely with that college and many others in looking at the most practical way forward to achieve sustainability for those colleges in the long term.

I hope that, when the member goes back to that college, she will go there wanting to be open and honest and that she will fess up and say that her party wanted to take £1 billion from public funds for tax cuts—a circle that cannot be squared, as I have twice said to Brian Whittle.

I hope the member will also recognise that the college is looking to focus on land-based courses and on hospitality, and that one of the principal reasons why we have a skills shortage in the Borders, and elsewhere in Scotland, is because of the hard Brexit that her party gave birth to.

Annabelle Ewing (Scottish National Party, Cowdenbeath)

That concludes portfolio questions on education and skills. There will be a short pause before we move on to the next item of business to allow those on the front benches to change position.

Creative Scotland (Multiyear Funding)

Annabelle Ewing (Scottish National Party, Cowdenbeath)

The next item of business is a statement by Angus Robertson on Creative Scotland multiyear funding. The cabinet secretary will take questions at the end of his statement, so there should be no interventions or interruptions.

Angus Robertson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Central)

Thank you for the opportunity to address Parliament regarding Creative Scotland’s multiyear funding programme and today’s announcement of the successful applicants.

We spoke here on 14 January about the importance of the culture sector and why it is such a vital asset to Scotland, our society and our economy. I am always heartened by the strong consensus here about the centrality of culture to our prosperity as a nation.

Recent years have been turbulent for the sector. The effects of the pandemic, leaving the European Union and the cost of living crisis and the impact of United Kingdom Government financial austerity need not be rehearsed again now, but have put many cultural organisations in a perilous position. During that period, our role and that of our public bodies has been, as far as possible, to protect the sector against the worst of the challenges.

Today’s announcement has been keenly anticipated and definitively moves us beyond simply sustaining the sector, returning our focus to where it should be, on long-term development. The Scottish Government’s commitment to increase culture budgets by £100 million annually by 2028-29 sits firmly in that space and demonstrates our commitment to the sector’s future.

Multiyear funding is important because, by providing long-term certainty, it lays the foundations on which a diverse range of Scotland’s key cultural organisations can build. It will allow the organisations that have secured support to pursue their core work and to move on from a difficult period, while also supporting Scotland’s wider cultural ecosystem. Artists and venues will benefit from the work commissioned by funded organisations and through the use of their spaces by touring artists who will bring performances and exhibitions to communities across the country. The funding will also provide opportunities for people across Scotland to engage in culture, providing experiences that, for many, may be the first step towards a life-long and life-enriching interest or even towards the beginning of a career in the arts.

The way in which multiyear funding is being delivered will have a practical impact on the levels of support available to the sector. The increase in the number of organisations in receipt of core funding will free up Creative Scotland’s wider resources by reducing the number of organisations competing for those. Today’s announcement is the beginning of a new period in which the sector can look to the future.

Scotland’s culture sector is one of our most important assets. Our artists and cultural organisations are innovative and internationally respected, while being grounded in our local communities, and they have an authenticity that gives them their unique character. This funding package will provide stability and allow the sector to get back to what it does best—creating interesting, innovative and challenging output that enriches our lives.

I take this opportunity to formally thank Robert Wilson, Iain Munro and everyone at Creative Scotland who has been involved in the multiyear funding process. I also thank all the culture sector supporters who have played a role in delivering that transformational change.

In her statement on 4 December, the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government outlined an increase of £34 million in the culture budget for 2025-26. The largest element of that increase is £20 million for multiyear funding. Subject to budgetary processes, we will increase the culture budget by a further £20 million in 2026-27. That additional funding will go in whole towards multiyear funding, taking the budget for the programme to £74 million and more than doubling it from current levels. That level of funding will allow Creative Scotland to make awards to all applicants that have met the criteria for the fund. It will mean that more organisations than ever before are supported with core funding.

I confirm that 251 organisations will receive funding from 2025-26. A number of applicants that narrowly missed out will join a development stream in which they will receive advice and financial support to adapt plans with the aim that they will receive multiyear funding from 2026-27. Creative Scotland currently supports 119 organisations with regular funding, so that represents a dramatic increase. It means that 95 per cent of organisations that reached stage 2 of the multiyear funding process will either receive grants or have the opportunity to do so from 2026-27.

Not only will the numbers of organisations that are supported increase, but so will the levels of grant. When we compare multiyear awards with grants to current regularly funded organisations, we see that average grant levels will increase by 33 per cent in year 1 of multiyear funding and by 54 per cent in year 2. The delivery of funding in that way will ensure that as many organisations as possible are supported in the coming year and that all funded organisations can see a path ahead of them to build their work and unleash their potential. Organisations across the whole of Scotland will be supported, across diverse art forms and with diverse impacts.

I hope that that addresses the concern, which I have heard, that resource would be spread too thinly. The approach represents a significant increase in both the number of funded organisations and the level of grants. It has the potential to be truly transformational, securing the future of cultural organisations of all sizes across the whole country.

For those organisations whose applications have not been successful, transition support will be available. That will be in the form of funding for organisations that previously received a significant level of funding from Creative Scotland. All organisations that have been unsuccessful at this stage of the process, whether they were previously funded or not, will be able to access transition advice. Those measures will support adaptation and business planning.

The foundations that the delivery of multiyear funding puts in place provide an opportunity to look to the wider needs of the sector. Through the funding that is proposed in the budget, we will increase support across a range of other programmes. A £4 million culture and heritage capacity fund will build resilience in museums and galleries. The festivals expo fund will be more than doubled in value and will expand its reach beyond Edinburgh and Glasgow. Screen Scotland’s production growth fund will receive an additional £2 million to attract investment in Scotland’s screen sector. The Culture Collective programme will restart with an increased budget of £4 million, providing opportunities for communities across Scotland. We will also undertake groundwork on the establishment of a cultural export and exchange service to enhance the role that international activity can play in the sector’s development.

Taken together, those measures create a comprehensive package of support that is focused on the diverse impacts that the culture sector has. Multiyear funding will allow us to look beyond the immediate and focus on new, innovative and transformational interventions.

It is important that, as part of that foundational shift, the infrastructure that supports the sector is considered. I am delighted that Dame Sue Bruce will lead an independent review of Creative Scotland’s remit and functions, which will aim to publish recommendations by the end of the summer this year. That will be part of a wider review of how the culture sector is supported as a whole. The scope of the work will be informed by responses to a public survey that closes tomorrow. Together, those pieces of work will ensure that the increased resources that we are committing to the sector will achieve the greatest possible impact.

I was pleased to note earlier this week that, following constructive engagement and discussion, Scottish Green Party and Scottish Liberal Democrat members will support the Government’s budget for 2025-26. By passing the proposed budget, we will lay the foundations for Scotland’s artists and cultural organisations to create, innovate, develop and engage locally and internationally. It will uphold the vital role of the sector in our society, communities and the economy.

I hope that this statement has provided members with assurance that Creative Scotland’s multiyear funding awards will begin a foundational shift in how Scotland’s culture sector is supported. The scale of awards, in both their number and their financial value, represents one of the most significant and positive developments in the sector for many, many years. Alongside a range of other interventions, they provide a basis for Scotland’s culture sector as a whole to look to the future with optimism and excitement about the opportunities that it will create.

Annabelle Ewing (Scottish National Party, Cowdenbeath)

The cabinet secretary will now take questions on the issues raised in the statement. I intend to allow around 20 minutes for that, after which we will move on to the next item of business.

Murdo Fraser (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

I thank the cabinet secretary for his statement and for advance sight of it.

The culture sector is vitally important to Scotland, not just as an enrichment of our national identity but because, by attracting visitors from around the world, its economic importance is worth billions to the Scottish economy. There has been a turbulent time in the culture sector in Scotland. That is down not just to the reasons that were mentioned in the cabinet secretary’s statement but to the choices that were made by his Government, with cuts in projects, uncertainty over future funding and questions about the credibility of Creative Scotland. Against that backdrop, the announcement of multiyear funding, which was long called for by the sector, will provide some certainty and security for arts organisations and is welcome.

Let me ask the cabinet secretary three questions in relation to his budget choices. First, we know that arts organisations across Scotland, including theatre companies, are struggling as a result of the increase in costs resulting from Labour’s jobs tax. To what extent will the increased funding that was announced today offset those increases?

Secondly, as the cabinet secretary knows, I have previously raised the issue of financial support for larger music venues. In Scotland, such venues are not getting the benefit of rates relief that is available south of the border, because the Scottish Government has chosen to spend the Barnett consequentials in a different way. Will the cabinet secretary reconsider that position of the Government, even at this late hour?

Thirdly, as we know, a huge proportion of the arts scene, including theatres and other venues, are supported by local authorities. Those local arts facilities are telling us that they face funding cuts and, in some cases, even closure, due to the very difficult position that local authorities are in. Will the extra funding ensure that we will not see closures in local arts facilities that are funded through local authorities? Will the cabinet secretary reassure them that none of them face closure?

Angus Robertson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Central)

First, I take the opportunity to welcome Murdo Fraser’s welcome. It took a while, but he got there, so I congratulate him. I genuinely do not want to be churlish, because I hope that colleagues across the chamber understand that what has been announced by Creative Scotland, funded through the Scottish Government, is absolutely transformational for the arts. I know that because the feedback from people elsewhere in the United Kingdom who do not have multiyear funding is a testament to how significant a change that is. It is very welcome, and I genuinely appreciate the support of colleagues in other parties.

Murdo Fraser asked three questions. On offsetting the UK Labour Government’s jobs tax, I would observe that the applications for funding to the multiyear funding process took place before the announcement of the additional costs foisted on arts organisations by the Labour chancellor. Mr Fraser asked me to give an impression of what impact that might have. I will have to get back to him on that. However, we already know from conversations with cultural organisations that the impact is problematic. We have asked the UK Government to reimburse the Scottish Government so that we can deal with those things. We know that we are not getting all the money, so it is a problem.

Murdo Fraser’s second question was about larger music venues. I have said that I am keen to support venues as much as we possibly can. This is not the first time that I have asked Murdo Fraser to show me his workings on the issue—I am sure that he has just forgotten it, or it is in the post. I ask him to please let me know how he would wish us to do that in the budget, and what we would have to cut to make that happen. I look forward to getting the details from him.

The point on local authorities is slightly different. I am sure that the Presiding Officer would wish to remind me that the statement is in relation to the announcements of Creative Scotland’s multiyear funding. Yes, there is an impact in some places, because the use of local facilities by funded organisations and so on is a longer conversation, which I am happy to continue having with Murdo Fraser. As I think that I said to him in portfolio questions yesterday, I met the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities this week to work out how we can better co-ordinate and support one another in working between the Scottish Government and local authorities, and I am committed to doing that. We want to maintain as much of our cultural infrastructure as possible.

This is my final thought for Murdo Fraser and his colleagues: if they are so keen on all those changes, I invite them to vote for them in the budget.

Annabelle Ewing (Scottish National Party, Cowdenbeath)

I remind everybody that we have limited time for the statement. I am keen to get in as many members as possible, so that they, too, have a chance to ask their questions.

Neil Bibby (Labour, West Scotland)

Scottish Labour welcomes the increase in funding for the culture sector, which, of course, has been helped by the new United Kingdom Labour Government’s record budget settlement for Scotland. We have consistently called on the Scottish Government to keep its commitments to the sector and to end the constant cycle of promises followed by cuts under the Scottish National Party, which has left the sector in crisis for far too long.

After lengthy delays, we are now finally seeing a step in the right direction, but claims that it will be truly transformational are questionable, given the effects of years of standstill funding and inflationary pressures. The cabinet secretary said that a number of organisations narrowly missed out. How many organisations missed out, and what does transition support for them mean in practice?

The cabinet secretary also stated the average uplift in grants. Will he tell us what the range of those uplifts is, how many organisations received what they asked for in full and what other support will be provided, or is being considered by the Government, to organisations that are not in receipt of Government funding or those that have not been funded in full?

Angus Robertson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Central)

First, I take the opportunity to welcome Neil Bibby’s welcome, which came straight out of the trap, and I thank him for that. We all have a stake in the issue. When we make speeches committing to the culture sector, it contributes to a more general understanding of how important culture and the arts are. The Opposition and the Government play a role in that, so I commend him for his support in that endeavour.

He says that the increase in funding is a step in the right direction, which it is. It is a massive step in the right direction, and I know that arts organisations in the rest of the UK, among others, would wish the Labour UK Government to introduce what we are doing in Scotland.

Neil Bibby asks me a number of technical questions about Creative Scotland’s decisions, but I am here to announce in general terms the Government’s reaction to the decisions made by Creative Scotland. I will make sure that Creative Scotland directly answers those technical questions, in the same way that similar questions are answered by the likes of Historic Environment Scotland. I look forward to seeing those answers from Creative Scotland, which is an arm’s-length organisation.

I wish to assure Neil Bibby that this is much more than a step in the right direction. He pointed out the issue of organisations not receiving support or receiving transitional support. I am satisfied that that will put applicants as a whole to work in the right direction on a firmer financial footing, but I will make sure that Creative Scotland answers directly to him.

Annabelle Ewing (Scottish National Party, Cowdenbeath)

Thank you, cabinet secretary. I reiterate that we have limited time. I am keen to get everybody who wishes to pose a question to do so, but that now looks less likely, I have to say. Succinct questions and answers are always helpful.

Clare Adamson (Scottish National Party, Motherwell and Wishaw)

The delivery of multiyear funding is a significant development. It was called for by stakeholders who gave evidence to the Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee and it has been welcomed widely by the sector. Creative Scotland’s plan will see the largest ever number of cultural organisations securing regular funding. I am delighted that Reeltime Music, which is in my constituency, is one of the 13 development organisations that will benefit from the £3.2 million development fund.

Will the cabinet secretary outline the Scottish Government’s engagement with Creative Scotland regarding the number and range of organisations that may benefit from the grants?

Angus Robertson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Central)

I assure Clare Adamson that I and my officials have had regular meetings with Creative Scotland. The process has been run by Creative Scotland, which is an arms-length organisation. As the sponsoring organisation that funds Creative Scotland, we have the responsibility to satisfy ourselves about the process, and I am satisfied. I encourage members and people who are watching the proceedings that, if they want to have a better understanding of the results, they should visit the Creative Scotland website and download the list of all the successful applicants. At this stage, I congratulate every one of them.

Alexander Stewart (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

It is commendable and to be welcomed that Creative Scotland has been awarded the multiyear funding, which will provide more stability for future planning for the arts and creative sector. However, what safeguards have been put in place to ensure that funding is correctly allocated going forward, and that is it is never again distributed to inappropriate projects such as the infamous Rein project?

Angus Robertson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Central)

I welcome the fact that the development is commendable. The member sits on the Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee, which has heard evidence from Creative Scotland about the safeguards that it has introduced. As a member of the committee, the member also has the opportunity to ask Creative Scotland directly about that, which I am sure that he will do, and that he will satisfy himself, as I have, that the likes of the project that he referenced will not be repeated in future.

George Adam (Scottish National Party, Paisley)

I welcome the support of the Scottish Greens and the Liberal Democrats for the Scottish Government’s draft budget. Given that it appears that the Tories will vote against the budget and that Labour will abstain, can the cabinet secretary outline the consequences for the culture sector should multiyear funding not be supported?

Angus Robertson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Central)

If the budget is not passed, multiyear funding will not happen. It is not a theoretical question, which is why, even at this stage, I appeal for those who say they support culture but will vote against the budget, or those members who say that they support culture but are going to abstain on the question, to reconsider. I think that the support for culture is reason enough to support the budget, which will bring transitional change for the culture sector.

Foysol Choudhury (Labour, Lothian)

I welcome the funding for culture organisations that has been made possible by the UK Labour Government’s record budget settlement. I particularly welcome the funding of Edinburgh’s festivals, which attract millions of people to Scotland each year.

The culture sector should not be fighting for its survival. Festivals have struggled with standstill Government funding for years, which has stunted their growth. How is the Scottish Government supporting organisations to attract private or other sources of funding? How will the cabinet secretary ensure that the delays to multiyear funding, which caused so much uncertainty in the sector, will not be repeated?

Angus Robertson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Central)

I take the opportunity to welcome the member’s welcome of the funding. He is absolutely right about the importance of the funding to the Edinburgh international festival. I declare an interest, as I am the member of the Scottish Parliament for Edinburgh Central, which is home to the Edinburgh international festival, as well as the Edinburgh art festival, the Edinburgh international book festival and the Edinburgh jazz and blues festival—and I could go on.

Many organisations that are based in Scotland’s capital, and across the country, have been successful as part of the process, which is a good thing. On the wider point about funding that could be raised through philanthropy, there is an on-going process that I would be happy to speak to Foysol Choudhury about.

I end on a point that I have made a number of times, which is that we cannot just wish the means; we have to make decisions to support things to happen. Even at this late stage, Foysol Choudhury might want to vote for the budget, rather than just saying that he supports culture.

Kevin Stewart (Scottish National Party, Aberdeen Central)

The funding boost to Aberdeen Performing Arts, Citymoves Dance Agency and peacock & the worm, among others, will not only sustain existing institutions but support new voices and emerging talent from Aberdeen. I am particularly pleased to see new funding being allocated to the much-loved Belmont Community Cinema. Will the cabinet secretary assure the Parliament that cultural funding will continue to benefit all of Scotland? Will he join me in celebrating the cultural offering that Aberdeen and the north-east gifts to our nation?

Angus Robertson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Central)

Organisations across the whole of Scotland will benefit from the awards. Thirty-five per cent of all organisations that have been awarded funding work nationally, no matter where their base is. I assure Kevin Stewart that organisations that are based in Aberdeen and north-east Scotland will receive support. In Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire, 13 organisations—including six that have not received core funding from Creative Scotland previously—have been successful. That includes Belmont Community Cinema, which pleases me particularly.

Gillian Mackay (Green, Central Scotland)

In recent weeks, the Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee has highlighted how it is all too easy for some production companies to bring crews to Scotland to film projects and then just return to London. Will the cabinet secretary outline how the funding to Screen Scotland will help to strengthen and diversify the range of screen professionals and careers in Scotland?

Angus Robertson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Central)

In the budget, significant additional resources are allocated for Screen Scotland, and the production growth fund will help it to attract and develop more screen projects that are from Scotland or are intended to take place in Scotland.

I share the member’s concerns about the full value of productions in Scotland not being received in Scotland, as has recently been highlighted. I remain seized of that issue and have discussed it with the BBC, and I am in on-going dialogue with Ofcom to make sure that those concerns can be assuaged, because it is in everybody’s interests for the screen sector to go from strength to strength. Its gross value added is currently valued at £635 million per annum. We all hope that it can become a billion-pound industry by 2030. We all have a stake in that.

Alex Cole-Hamilton (Liberal Democrat, Edinburgh Western)

With Scottish Liberal Democrat backing, the budget will deliver tens of millions more for dance, music, theatre, literature, screen and more. After the past few years of uncertainty, with people being messed around by the Government, that extra funding will go a long way.

I congratulate those who have been successfully awarded grants. It is a huge amount of work to apply for any such funds, which involves a burden of tens and tens of pages of application forms that often falls on tiny companies. It must take ages for the people who are sifting and analysing applications to go through them. Will the on-going review of Creative Scotland examine how that can be streamlined? The more time Creative Scotland spends on admin, the less time it has to spend doing good in our communities.

Angus Robertson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Central)

First, I commend Alex Cole-Hamilton for supporting the budget, which is able to deliver progress for the cultural sector. It is good to be working collectively on that.

Alex Cole-Hamilton highlights one of the great advantages of multiyear funding. Of course we have to ensure that funds are properly applied for—there are processes and there is no way round that. However, doing applications on a multiyear basis means that one does not have to do them every year, because one receives funding two to three years down the road, which reduces the burden. Should the review look at that? Yes, absolutely, and there is no doubt that it will, but multiyear funding will change things significantly and its introduction is a game changer for Scotland. I know that the culture sector elsewhere in the UK is keen to follow suit with that.

Clare Haughey (Scottish National Party, Rutherglen)

My Rutherglen constituency is home to many talented musicians, actors and other creative sector professionals. Will the cabinet secretary outline what organisations in the South Lanarkshire Council area will benefit from the very welcome announcement of multiyear funding?

Angus Robertson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Central)

In South Lanarkshire, the Scottish Music Industry Association and Soundplay Projects have been successful in securing funding, and I congratulate them. Soundplay Projects has not previously received core funding from Creative Scotland. More than a third of all successful applicants, including those organisations, operate nationally, which benefits South Lanarkshire and the whole country.

Stephen Kerr (Conservative, Central Scotland)

The cabinet secretary will know that we in the Conservatives are greatly exercised about value for taxpayers’ money and the measurement of outcomes. Will he expand on how this public expenditure fits with the national performance framework? How can we have assurance that the money is being spent appropriately and transparently by the organisations that are receiving the multiyear funding settlements?

Angus Robertson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Central)

I repeat the point that I made about the screen sector. We are able to evidence the growth in that sector and show that relatively small interventions of public funding help to lever in private sector support, which I know that the member is in favour of, as am I.

I am confident that this injection of support into the arts and culture sector will have a significant and positive impact. I assure Mr Kerr that I am confident that there will be knock-on benefits for the wider economy. We will monitor that, as will Creative Scotland, and I have no doubt that—as someone who has described himself as being greatly exercised about the matter—Mr Kerr will, too.

Emma Harper (Scottish National Party, South Scotland)

I have worked with the organisers of many festivals in Galloway, such as the Big Burns Supper, Stranraer oyster festival, Kirkcudbright festival of light and Wigtown book festival. One thing that they raise is the need for festivals in rural areas to receive the same recognition and funding as those in the central belt do. The cabinet secretary mentioned the festivals expo fund. Will he describe further that fund and how it will support festivals beyond Edinburgh and Glasgow, including in Galloway and the Borders?

Angus Robertson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Central)

First, I am delighted that a number of organisations in Dumfries and Galloway will receive awards, including four that have not previously received core funding from Creative Scotland.

Emma Harper is absolutely correct to suggest that we should recognise the impact of festivals beyond the central belt, which is why, separately from multiyear funding, we are more than doubling support for the festivals expo fund and expanding its reach beyond Edinburgh and Glasgow. That is an example of how the strategic partnership for Scotland’s festivals will provide further opportunities to explore how best to support festivals in rural areas.

Annabelle Ewing (Scottish National Party, Cowdenbeath)

I can squeeze in a question from Mr Smyth if he is brief.

Colin Smyth (Labour, South Scotland)

Given that we have lost a lot of festivals in Dumfries and Galloway and that there is a clear inequality when it comes to funding such festivals, will the cabinet secretary guarantee that today’s announcement will tackle that regional inequality of support for festivals, particularly in Dumfries and Galloway?

Angus Robertson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Central)

I will make sure that Mr Smyth receives the link to the funding announcement, so that he can satisfy himself that there is a significant improvement throughout the country.

Mr Smyth draws attention to the work of the strategic partnership for festivals and festival support, which I am personally chairing. I am so invested in that because I want to make sure that festivals across the country go from strength to strength. I am happy to work with him and other colleagues to make sure that that happens.

Annabelle Ewing (Scottish National Party, Cowdenbeath)

That concludes the ministerial statement on Creative Scotland multiyear funding. Before we move to the next item of business, there will be a short pause to allow front-bench teams to switch over. I ask members who are leaving the chamber to do so without having lots of discussions with other members.

Engineering Skills Gap Analysis for Scotland

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

I encourage people who are leaving the public gallery to do so as quickly and as quietly as possible.

The next item of business is a members’ business debate on motion S6M-16148, in the name of Alex Rowley, on Scottish Engineering’s “Engineering Skills Gap Analysis for Scotland”. The debate will be concluded without any questions being put, and I invite members who wish to participate to press their request-to-speak buttons now or as soon as possible. I also advise members that we are a little tight for time, so I would welcome it if speeches were around the time limit.

Motion debated,

That the Parliament notes the publication of Scottish Engineering’s report, Engineering Skills Gap Analysis for Scotland; is concerned by the findings of the report, the production of which aims to allow industry and government to work in partnership to maximise the opportunities for Scotland’s economy, and its society as a result; notes that the results in the report are derived from the output of a survey of 70 engineering companies based on their operations in Scotland; is concerned with the findings of the report that skills pipeline gaps for existing industry are “an immediately stark situation” with “no allowance for the additional demands” of offshore wind, grid infrastructure investment, decarbonising heat energy or green hydrogen production; notes the view from the survey that “unless there is a rapid change in the required skills investment there is a considerable risk of damage to incumbent industry [and a] risk to inward investors of failure to reach the skilled staffing levels they require, with negative impact on their projects, and reputational risk to Scotland’s ability to accommodate such opportunity”; further notes the view that the Scottish and UK governments must encourage the next generation of skilled workers and make the funding and resources needed available to provide the apprenticeships of today for the jobs of tomorrow, and notes the calls in the Mid Scotland and Fife region and across the country for the Scottish Government to take action to foster a new partnership between schools, colleges, universities and industry to ensure that young people are aware and able to take advantage of the opportunities available in Scotland’s industrial sector, and that the future of Scottish industry is secured for the benefit of people across Scotland.

Alex Rowley (Labour, Mid Scotland and Fife)

I thank members who signed my motion for debate and my business manager for allowing the time for it.

I have been consistent in my view that if we are to secure the future of Scotland’s economy, we must be laser focused on ensuring access to education and training in the skills that we need for the future. As policy continues in the direction of a just transition towards a greener economy, investing in the skills and education of the future has never been more relevant.

Scottish Engineering chief executive Paul Sheerin recently described the current outlook for the Scottish economy as an “industrial revolution-sized opportunity”. I agree, but that description came with a stark warning that Scotland was at risk of missing out on the opportunity due to a lack of a skills pipeline.

The comments came after the publication at the start of the month of Scottish Engineering’s “Engineering Skills Gap Analysis for Scotland”. I believe that we need to seriously consider the report’s findings and the implications for the future of engineering and its impact on our economy.

The results are the output of a survey of 70 engineering companies from a broad range of sectors, based on their operations in Scotland. Scottish Engineering reported that

“The skills pipeline gaps for these roles are an immediately stark situation”.

Indeed, a look at the average demand across 31 engineering roles showed that industry will require an additional 33 per cent of the volume that is currently in role by the end of 2025, rising to 46 per cent by the end of 2026 and again to 58 per cent by the end of 2027.

If those figures are concerning, the conclusions are cause for further concern, as it should be noted that the gaps are only for existing industry. That means that there is “no allowance” for the additional demand of offshore wind, grid infrastructure investment, decarbonising heat energy or green hydrogen production—sectors that are essential to Scotland’s stated aims of achieving net zero. The report concludes:

“Where that demand is for the opportunity for inward investment, unless there is a rapid change in the required skills investment there is a considerable risk of damage to incumbent industry.”

Scottish Engineering also estimates that 20 per cent of demand for apprentice training programmes has

“been unmet due to real terms funding cuts to apprenticeships in Scotland.”

When I speak to employers of skilled workers across the Mid Scotland and Fife region, one issue that comes up time and again is that due to a lack of the skilled workers that are needed to meet industry demand, the whole of the United Kingdom is having to share pools of workers for each skill. An example of that is the Hinkley Point nuclear power station project in Somerset, England, which is attracting workers from Scotland, due to the high demand for skills and the higher pay on offer.

That is why it is crucial that we look at this issue from a UK-wide point of view. The Open University’s “Business Barometer 2024” found that,

“Despite tiny green shoots of improvement, the skills gap in the UK remains stubbornly high across sectors, regions and all four nations.”

Across the UK, 62 per cent of organisations are facing skills shortages; in Scotland, the figure is 56 per cent; and a concerning 52 per cent of organisations do not have specific recruitment, retention or training initiatives for targeted groups.

As a result, my motion calls for two things. First, the Scottish and UK Governments must work together to encourage the next generation of skilled workers by making available the funding and resources that are needed

“to provide the apprenticeships of today for the jobs of tomorrow”.

There is a clear and desperate need for that. I urge both of Scotland’s Governments to recognise the urgency of the situation that we are in and act accordingly.

Furthermore, I believe that the Scottish Government must

“take action to foster a new partnership between schools, colleges, universities and industry to ensure that young people are aware and able to take advantage of the opportunities available in Scotland’s industrial sector”.

An academic to whom I spoke recently told me that we must do more to build the relationships between schools, colleges and industry. He was very clear that that should start in primary 6 and primary 7, not in secondary 3 and secondary 4.

I know that there is a lot of on-going work by the Scottish Government and its agencies, and I do not want to undermine any of that, but much more has to be done if we are to give every child the chance to gain the education and skills for the jobs of today and tomorrow. We need a revolution in skills from primary schools to secondary schools and colleges, all working in partnership with industry. We need a regional skills strategy for every region of Scotland, along with regional funding to deliver a regional workforce plan.

Government at every level must work in partnership with industry. We must listen to the concerns of industry on the apprenticeship levy and the calls for reform, the concerns at the intention to wind up the Scottish apprenticeship advisory board, and the concerns expressed by business about the decision to remove Skills Development Scotland from post-school funding.

The future for jobs in Scotland can, and should, be very bright, but it requires a stronger partnership and a new approach that puts education, training and skills at its very heart, and it should be driven by education and industry working together in partnership. Scotland deserves nothing less.

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

We now move to the open debate.

Fergus Ewing (Scottish National Party, Inverness and Nairn)

I congratulate Mr Rowley on securing the motion for debate in the chamber and for his contribution, which I thought set the scene extremely well. I am grateful for the opportunity to debate the key issue.

Governments should do what they promise, but they should not promise what they cannot do. I say with some regret that it seems that the UK and Scottish targets to achieve net zero—by 2030, in the case of the UK—are simply unachievable. I submit that we should not be setting targets that are unachievable. I am thinking of, for example, the target to install a million heat pumps by 2030, and, indeed, the target for installing renewable heating systems in the 170,000 houses that are off the gas grid and 1.2 million homes overall, when we are actually installing only a few thousand a year. Those targets are simply green pie in the sky—they are just stupid.

What do we need to do, and what should we do in order to be able to do it? Many do not appreciate that the renewables opportunity, which is a form of industrial revolution for this century in Scotland, will create a volume of civil engineering projects of a like that is completely without precedent. Those projects include pumped storage facilities; grid schemes; Global Energy Group’s work at the Inverness and Cromarty Firth green freeport; electrification of the east coast line; hospitals; housing; schools; and schemes associated with Scottish Water and its £1 billion a year investment. When we tot all that up, it amounts to around £50 billion or £60 billion over the next 10 or 15 years. That is without precedent.

As Mr Rowley has argued, the skills challenge that arises from being able to do that work is simply on a scale that we cannot begin to comprehend. I am no expert in the area—I await what the minister has to say with interest—but I know that a lot of good work is being done by industry in schools and colleges around Scotland. However, we need to multiply that considerably. Along with the other capacity problems that we face in achieving our aspirations—aspirations that are all desirable—it should be a big focus of what we do.

Paul Sweeney (Labour, Glasgow)

The member has made a powerful series of points. Does he agree that, with the change in early recruitment in the shipbuilding industry necessitated by recent difficulties that it has faced—I am thinking of the trade assistant role that it has introduced, which removes academic entry qualifications—a great pathway is being offered to those who do not have traditional skills to enter the industry and build their skills in a practical way, and that that has been compounded by the creation of the applied shipbuilding skills academy in Glasgow?

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

Fergus Ewing, I can give you the time back.

Fergus Ewing (Scottish National Party, Inverness and Nairn)

I do not have the knowledge of shipbuilding that the member might have, but I sympathise with his point.

A lot has been done by colleges and by, for example, the University of the Highlands and Islands. A recent report by Statkraft, the second biggest company in Norway and Europe’s largest generator of renewable energy, has found that a “transformational” pumped storage project carried out at UHI offers “significant” opportunities with up to 500 workers needed at the peak of the construction period. That is just one of a very large number of projects; not all of them will go ahead, but many will.

I also want to praise the efforts of industry in this respect. For example, the Civil Engineers Contractors Association has created its own scheme, which provides an 18-week course for young people with the opportunity of a guaranteed job interview at the end. It has a success rate of more than 50 per cent going into engineering.

I do not have the time to elucidate further, so I will close by saying that I know that a lot is being done—I am not here to criticise—but should we not focus much more on this issue and far less on the high-level rhetoric about unachievable targets? Such targets take up so much of our discourse and, frankly, they conceal the real problems that lurk beneath the surface, problems that it is our duty to tackle and solve.

Brian Whittle (Conservative, South Scotland)

I am delighted to have the opportunity to speak in this debate and I thank Alex Rowley for bringing to the chamber an important subject that I have discussed many times.

We are a nation that is synonymous with innovation and engineering know-how—even the miracle-working chief engineer on the Starship Enterprise was a Scot. However, no matter how strong our reputation is, we cannot afford to rest on our laurels. Yesterday’s successes are no guarantee of tomorrow’s. That is why it is important that we give the next generation of young engineers the opportunity and the pathway that they need to develop their talents and become the skilled workforce that Scotland’s engineering sector needs.

As Alex Rowley’s motion and the Scottish Engineering report point out, there is a widening gap between the workforce demands of engineering businesses and the supply of available staff. In the south of Scotland, that gap is nowhere more acute than in Ayrshire, which has a well-established engineering sector that is desperate to grow. Recently, we have seen the arrival of subsea cable manufacturer XLCC, whose multibillion-pound investment at Hunterston is expected to need as many as 3,500 skilled workers over the coming years. Indeed, XLCC and some other businesses are so concerned about securing a skilled workforce that they are investing significant sums of money in developing their own in-house training schemes, often in collaboration with Ayrshire College.

Although Alex Rowley’s motion highlights the growing demand for engineers in the renewables sector and energy sectors, we should recognise that there is enormous potential for growth in other parts of the engineering sector. Ayrshire is also home to Prestwick airport and the cluster of international aerospace businesses that surround it. It comes as a surprise to far too many people that more than 50 per cent of Scotland’s entire aerospace workforce—more than 4,000 jobs—is based in and around Prestwick.

In my time as an MSP, I have been fortunate to visit many of those businesses and see at first hand the time and money that they have committed to creating sophisticated world-class facilities in Scotland. Those global businesses have put faith in Scotland’s engineering workforce to deliver, and they have ambitions to invest more. The Ayrshire growth deal can be a catalyst for that investment, supporting businesses, including Ryanair, Woodward and GE Caledonian, to take forward their plans for growth. Taken together, those plans are expected to create 1,500 new jobs within the aerospace cluster in the next three years.

However, all those investments can succeed only with the right workforce behind them. A significant number of those jobs are aimed not at graduates but at apprentices, giving young people a valuable opportunity to earn and learn at the same time. Most, if not all, of those apprenticeships depend on local colleges having both the funding and the capacity to deliver them. However, as with many colleges across Scotland, Ayrshire College is having to fight an uphill battle to balance its books. The Scottish Government’s latest budget looks set to deliver a below-inflation increase and continue a trend that has meant that funding has fallen by 17 per cent since 2021-22, according to Audit Scotland. The college is perfectly placed to facilitate millions, if not billions, of pounds of inward investment into its local area, but instead of getting additional funding to make the most of that opportunity, it is being asked to find at least £1.5 million in savings.

I appreciate that, in every budget, difficult choices have to be made, but cutting college funding is not a difficult choice—it is a nonsensical choice. Ayrshire has one of the lowest workforce productivity rates in Scotland, but the potential in the area is enormous—nowhere more so than in the engineering sector.

If both the SNP and Labour Governments are serious about delivering economic growth, the greatest opportunities lie in places such as Ayrshire’s engineering sector.

I have no doubt that, across the chamber this afternoon, we will have unanimous agreement on the importance of the engineering sector, apprenticeships and creating the skills pathway to grow the workforce. However, we urgently need a willingness from both the UK and Scottish Governments to make the choice to back the sector, prioritise funding for engineering apprenticeships and focus that investment where there is greatest demand.