Scottish Parliament, 9 January 2025

296 contributions from 65 members. The official report.

General Question Time

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Good morning. The first item of business is general question time. In order that we can fit in as many questions as possible, I would be grateful for short and succinct questions and responses.

Pam Duncan-Glancy (Labour, Glasgow)

To ask the Scottish Government what support is available to taxi drivers in Glasgow to help them comply with the low-emission zone. (S6O-04177)

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

Comprehensive support has been provided to help the taxi trade to adapt to low-emission zones. In the Glasgow region, £3.4 million has been provided through the LEZ retrofit fund for taxi operators to upgrade their existing vehicles. More than 400 taxis have been retrofitted to the LEZ emission standard as a result.

The LEZ support fund also provides a cash scrappage grant for microbusinesses. More than 700 vehicles in the Glasgow region, many of which are taxis, have been disposed of through the scheme. The switched-on taxis loan has provided more than £5.5 million in interest-free loans since 2016 to support Glasgow based hackney and private-hire operators to purchase new and used electric taxis.

Pam Duncan-Glancy (Labour, Glasgow)

Taxi drivers in Glasgow are keen to play their part in the transition to net zero, but at present they struggle to access some support to comply with the low-emission zone in the city, particularly with the liquidation of Vehicle Repowering Solutions, one of only two companies that offered retrofits under the clean vehicle retrofit accreditation scheme.

I previously wrote to the cabinet secretary to raise taxi drivers’ concerns, but the issue remains. Will she meet me and representatives of the taxi industry to address their concerns?

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

As the member knows from previous correspondence, we proactively dealt with those taxi drivers. When the problem with the supplier occurred, taxi operators who had a retrofit grant offer for liquid petroleum gas conversion were given the option to change to an alternative taxi retrofit supplier. Some operators have already taken up that offer.

The Energy Saving Trust wrote to all affected operators and invited any taxi operators who faced losing a deposit to contact the trust if they were unable to reclaim their deposit. However, none did so. Glasgow City Council also offered affected taxi operators further time-limited exemptions to LEZ enforcement.

If there are continuing issues, notwithstanding what is already happening, I am concerned. If Pam Duncan-Glancy writes to me with illustrations of those continuing issues, we will be able to identify the best resolution and set up a meeting if necessary. However, as I said, the Energy Saving Trust and Glasgow City Council have done proactive work on the issue.

Sue Webber (Conservative, Lothian)

Last month, Glasgow City Council announced a consultation that could, ultimately, lead to the current cap on cab numbers being scrapped, retained or reviewed. Considering the fact that the LEZ has already undermined Glasgow’s late-night economy, does the cabinet secretary accept that a reduction in cab numbers might further damage that sector?

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

Clearly, the licensing of taxi drivers is an issue for local authorities. I assume that the Conservatives do not want to centralise that.

There is an issue on footfall. Earlier in 2024, it was recognised that there had been no reduction in footfall in Glasgow. Any subsequent reduction in footfall might have happened as a result of cost of living pressures or other issues. However, unlike the local authorities for other major cities in Scotland, Glasgow City Council does not have an age limit on taxis and, as a result, there is a higher proportion of older, non-compliant taxis in the Glasgow fleet for a variety of different reasons.

There are different experiences in different cities. Those issues are best addressed by Glasgow City Council, but I recognise Sue Webber’s concern in raising them.

Karen Adam (Scottish National Party, Banffshire and Buchan Coast)

To ask the Scottish Government what its response is to reported calls from constituents to save local government services, in light of reports that some services across Banffshire and Buchan Coast are under threat of closure. (S6O-04178)

Ivan McKee (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Provan)

The Scottish Government has increased local government funding to record levels. If the Scottish budget is supported by Opposition parties and passes, Aberdeenshire Council will receive its formula share of more than £1 billion of additional funding for local government. That would deliver an increase for the council of 7.4 per cent, which would help it to maintain services across Banffshire and Buchan Coast without the need for big increases in council tax. However, local authorities have their own powers and responsibilities, and it is for locally elected councillors to make decisions on how best to utilise the total funding that is available to deliver services for their local communities.

Karen Adam (Scottish National Party, Banffshire and Buchan Coast)

I welcome the extra investment for our public services.

Before Christmas, it was a pleasure to work with community activists in Banffshire and Buchan Coast to fight the proposed closures of libraries across the north-east. Initially, we were delighted when the Conservative administration of Moray Council announced a U-turn on its proposed closure of Cullen library. Only hours later, we were crushed when the council U-turned on its U-turn.

Libraries are more than just buildings: they are a lifeline for many. What more can we do to ensure that essential public services such as libraries are protected?

Ivan McKee (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Provan)

The Scottish Government places great importance on public libraries and we believe that everyone should have access to library services. Although it is for locally elected councillors to manage their day-to-day business and decision-making processes, any decision about public libraries must be considered extremely carefully. Local authorities should continue to work in partnership with communities to explore new ways of delivering essential front-line services based on local needs.

Mercedes Villalba (Labour, North East Scotland)

A number of my constituents in North East Scotland, including in Banff and Buchan, have contacted me with concerns about the impact of local government funding changes on local services. In particular, the issue of library closures in Aberdeenshire has been raised repeatedly with me in response to reports that branches may close due to supposed reduced footfall.

I cannot stress enough to the minister how crucial public libraries are to our communities, and that they must be protected. Does the minister agree that meaningful public consultation is vital before any decisions are taken on library closures?

Ivan McKee (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Provan)

I absolutely agree with the member about the critical importance of public libraries. I recognise the value that they add to the local community in my constituency in Glasgow, and I agree that ensuring that the community has been adequately consulted is an essential part of any changes that local authorities might want to make to the provision of library services.

Stephen Kerr (Conservative, Central Scotland)

To ask the Scottish Government what plans it has to reform planning regulations to enable the construction of new nuclear power stations. (S6O-04179)

Gillian Martin (Scottish National Party, Aberdeenshire East)

The Scottish Government’s position on traditional fission nuclear energy is clear: we do not support the building of any new nuclear power stations in Scotland under current technologies. New nuclear power would take years, if not decades, to become operational and would come at a high cost. Instead, the significant growth in renewables—[ Interruption .]

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

When the cabinet secretary is responding, I would be grateful if members listened, as a matter of courtesy.

Gillian Martin (Scottish National Party, Aberdeenshire East)

Thank you, Presiding Officer.

Instead, the significant growth in renewables, storage, hydrogen and carbon capture provides the best pathway to net zero by 2045 and will deliver affordable, resilient and clean energy supplies for Scotland.

Stephen Kerr (Conservative, Central Scotland)

What a dreadful answer that was. We really need a Scottish Government that sees nuclear energy as the crucial clean energy technology that it is—not a Government that denies science—[Interruption.]

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Let us hear Mr Kerr.

Stephen Kerr (Conservative, Central Scotland)

I recently listened to young Scots apprentices in the nuclear sector. They were a highly impressive group of young people. They said that they were going to have to move away from Scotland and take their skills to other parts of the United Kingdom if they wanted to pursue their careers. Why is the minister prepared to say goodbye to these highly skilled young people, and how is any of her characteristic negativity on the issue in Scotland’s national interest?

Gillian Martin (Scottish National Party, Aberdeenshire East)

Nuclear workers in Scotland are highly skilled people who have extremely transferable skills that will be indispensable for the energy sector as a whole in Scotland. However, I think that we can be assured that they will not be moving to Hinkley Point. Originally estimated to cost £18 billion and to be complete in 2017, it is now estimated to cost £46 billion and is expected to be complete in 2031 at the earliest. That is hardly an advertisement for nuclear power.

Finlay Carson (Conservative, Galloway and West Dumfries)

To ask the Scottish Government how it plans to invest in front-line primary healthcare to support rural pharmacies. (S6O-04180)

Jenni Minto (Scottish National Party, Argyll and Bute)

The Government continues to support community pharmacies, including rural pharmacies, by delivering the largest-ever increase to funding for two years in a row. That has delivered a total of £422 million in guaranteed funding for community pharmacies across Scotland in this financial year.

In addition, there is a guaranteed minimum target income for essential small pharmacies, most of which are rural, and a pharmaceutical needs weighting payment, which acknowledges both demographics and the deprivation that is associated with a patient’s postcode. Those measures help to support rural pharmacies by ensuring that they are not disadvantaged because of their location.

Finlay Carson (Conservative, Galloway and West Dumfries)

Many operators in my constituency say that their reserves have been wiped out because the medicine tariffs that are paid by NHS Scotland have failed to keep pace with the rapidly increasing costs of medicine, resulting in pharmacists having to, in effect, subsidise national health service medicines out of their own pocket.

Community pharmacies provide a vital service, with increasing demand in remote and rural areas. They are hugely valued public services that are operated by private contractors, and they have been underfunded consistently in recent years. Many face an accumulative £20,000 to £30,000 a year increase in operating costs as the new minimum wage and national insurance rates kick in, with no internal mechanism to absorb the increases.

In the light of those funding pressures, will the minister set out what support the Scottish Government will provide to community pharmacies? Will the Scottish Government consider the option of the NHS exemption for national insurance contributions being applied to NHS contractors?

Jenni Minto (Scottish National Party, Argyll and Bute)

Before I respond to Finlay Carson’s question, I thank community pharmacies across Scotland for the work that they do in their communities all year round but especially at this time of year. They are an integral part of supporting people through the winter from a preventative care perspective and by providing a wide range of pharmaceutical services.

I meet Community Pharmacy Scotland regularly, and the issue of payments is always on the agenda. I have undertaken to write to NHS National Services Scotland with regard to Community Pharmacy Scotland’s frustrations about receiving payments. However, as I pointed out in my original answer, over the past two years, the funding settlement from the Scottish Government for community pharmacies has been very good.

Jackie Dunbar (Scottish National Party, Aberdeen Donside)

I recognise that addressing issues in rural primary care is a key priority for the Scottish Government. Will the minister outline how primary care services such as pharmacies will be supported through the upcoming Scottish budget? Will she join me in encouraging colleagues from all parties to support the budget to enable plans to come to fruition?

Jenni Minto (Scottish National Party, Argyll and Bute)

I agree whole-heartedly with Jackie Dunbar’s final point. It is important to point out that the Scottish Government is investing record amounts in primary care and is on track to deliver our commitment to increasing primary care funding by 25 per cent. Our 2025-26 budget includes more than £2.2 billion of investment in primary care services, and plans for reform across the sector will take into account service needs in rural and island communities. We remain committed to investing in the national centre for remote and rural health and care.

As I indicated to Finlay Carson, our on-going negotiations with Community Pharmacy Scotland will ensure that the needs of rural community pharmacies are taken into consideration in future settlements.

Sue Webber (Conservative, Lothian)

To ask the Scottish Government how it plans to strengthen Scotland’s ferry fleet over the coming year. (S6O-04181)

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

The ferry fleet will be strengthened with the delivery and deployment of six new major vessels from early 2025, starting with the Glen Sannox. We will also progress the procurement of seven new electric vessels and will retain a resilience vessel to cover planned and unplanned outages. Those improvements form part of the spend of more than £530 million to operate, maintain and enhance our ferry networks, as set out in the 2025-26 draft budget.

Sue Webber (Conservative, Lothian)

It has recently been revealed that more than £7 million has been spent on the MV Caledonian Isles since it went into dry dock last year, and it will not be back in service until March. The vessel is 32 years old. Does the cabinet secretary think that it is acceptable that we still have to rely on these old creaking vessels, bearing in mind the fact that the long-promised new ferries continue to be delayed?

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

The fact that we have six new major vessels entering service and that seven new electric vessels are being procured demonstrates that we know that we need to provide greater resilience in the fleet with new ferries, which is what we are doing. That does not include the additional procurement that will be undertaken in the second phase of the small vessel replacement programme—SVRP 2.

Those vessels are important to our islanders. We have set out an investment of £530 million in the draft budget to secure and maintain our ferry networks. I hope that that will give people confidence that we are investing and that we are supporting our island communities. That is in the draft budget, and I hope that the Conservatives can bring themselves to support it.

Kenneth Gibson (Scottish National Party, Cunninghame North)

Can the cabinet secretary give us the most recent progress update on the MV Indaal, MV Claymore and MV Lochmor? What specific improvements will those new vessels make on the routes that they will serve, and how will their addition to the fleet improve the ferry network as a whole?

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

The latest update from Caledonian Maritime Assets Ltd has indicated that delivery of those vessels from the Cemre yard is expected to follow in four-monthly intervals after the delivery of the first vessel, the MV Isle of Islay.

Those vessels will be deployed on the Islay and Little Minch routes over the coming years. Along with the on-going port improvement works that we are investing in, the vessels will significantly improve services for island residents, visitors and businesses. The increase in capacity—in particular, heavy goods vehicle capacity—on the Islay route will ease current pressures and help to sustain economic growth. The additional vessel on the Little Minch routes during the summer period will increase capacity and enhance cover for the wider fleet during the winter overhaul period.

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

Although the additional funding in the draft budget for ferry services in Orkney is welcome, it falls short of what will be needed to allow the procurement of new ferries in Orkney. Will the cabinet secretary provide an assurance that she will lend her support to efforts to get that shortfall made up so that the new ferries that are desperately needed in my constituency can be procured?

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

When I visited Orkney as a minister, I was made well aware of the issues and concerns surrounding the council-run ferry service and the importance of supporting that. The member will be aware that, in recent years, the Government has increased support on the revenue side for the servicing and maintenance of that fleet, but it is clear that Orkney Islands Council faces big challenges. I am interested in lending my support, where I can, to ensure that the council can progress the improvements that it needs to make to ensure that it has a resilient ferry fleet.

Kevin Stewart (Scottish National Party, Aberdeen Central)

To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on the impact of the increase in employer national insurance contributions on the public and third sectors in Scotland. (S6O-04182)

Ivan McKee (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Provan)

On 20 November last year, the Scottish Government published estimates of the impact of the increase in employer national insurance contributions on the public sector in Scotland. Those estimates indicate that the combined impact on the public sector and commissioned services is more than £700 million. If the United Kingdom Government’s reported allocation is all that is provided, that will mean that the Chancellor of the Exchequer will be short-changing services that the Scottish public depend on by more than £400 million.

Kevin Stewart (Scottish National Party, Aberdeen Central)

Labour’s employer national insurance hike is a tax on jobs, and it will have a major impact on the delivery of services. Third sector organisations face massive bills. VSA in Aberdeen is having to find a whopping £468,000 to cover its additional national insurance bill. Has the UK Government given any indication that it will cover all the additional national insurance costs of the public and third sectors in Scotland, or is it content to let jobs and vital services wither on the vine?

Ivan McKee (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Provan)

The Treasury must fully fund the actual costs for Scotland’s public sector and not just give a much lower-value Barnett share of the spending in England. We have a range of public sector employers, including the national health service, the police and local authorities, which need clarity on the matter to inform their spending decisions.

On 3 January, the First Minister and the president of the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities—supported by 48 public and voluntary sector organisations—wrote to the chancellor to raise concerns about the impact of the increase in employer national insurance contributions and to seek clarity on funding.

Craig Hoy (Conservative, South Scotland)

I will do something rare and agree with Kevin Stewart in his condemnation of Labour’s broken-promises tax on jobs.

However, as negotiations continue with the Treasury on compensation for national insurance liabilities, will the minister commit to ensuring that, whatever deal is reached with the Treasury, a full, fair and proportionate amount is passed on to Scottish local councils and that they are not short-changed by the Scottish National Party Government all over again?

Ivan McKee (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Provan)

The member recognises that there is a gap of around £400 million. If and when we receive full payment from the UK Government, the local government allocation will form part of that and we will work with COSLA to ensure that, should the full £700 million be allocated to the Scottish Government, local authorities will receive their necessary share.

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

That concludes general questions. Before we move to First Minister’s questions, I invite members to join me in welcoming to the gallery the Hon Om Birla, Speaker of the Lok Sabha, Parliament of India. [ Applause .]

First Minister’s Question Time

Russell Findlay (Conservative, West Scotland)

John Swinney said this week that, if his budget does not pass, we are playing

“right into the hands of Elon Musk.”

Yes, you heard that right. The Scottish National Party budget will cause misery to hard-working Scots and struggling businesses, but, in the mind of Scotland’s populist First Minister, that is a price we must all pay to defeat the shadowy forces of populism. Was it John Swinney’s new year’s resolution to distract people from his failings by making ludicrous claims such as that one?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

I can see the shadowy face of populism right in front of me just now.

I say that a budget that protect businesses from a challenging trading environment, delivers a real-terms increase in local government funding, invests to reform and improve the national health service, gives a huge boost to housing investment, takes steps to eradicate child poverty and invests in a clean, green transition for the Scottish economy and environment is a budget worth supporting. Mr Findlay should come to his senses and vote for the Government’s budget.

Russell Findlay (Conservative, West Scotland)

It is really something to hear John Swinney, of all people, preaching against populism. He is the leader of Scotland’s populist party—the party of blaming others, of sowing division and of fantasy promises of easy fixes. [Interruption.]

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Let us hear Mr Findlay.

Russell Findlay (Conservative, West Scotland)

John Swinney sounds like a serial arsonist suddenly warning people about the risk of fire. However, despite his ridiculous rhetoric, his budget will pass because of the votes of Anas Sarwar’s Labour Party, so I ask John Swinney: what sweeteners did he have to give Labour in exchange, or did Anas Sarwar just hand him a blank cheque?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

My speech on Monday was designed to set out the very serious issues that Scotland will face if the budget does not pass. We must have cool heads and a clear process to go through to secure agreement on the Government’s budget, because all that I said on Monday will come to pass if there is no agreement on the budget.

A process is under way within the Scottish Parliament to agree that and we are engaging in constructive discussions with all parties. I made it clear on Tuesday that, despite the comments that Mr Sarwar made on the radio that day, I do not in any way take the passage of the budget for granted. That is why this Government will fulfil, under my direction, its duty to engage constructively with all parties to secure a parliamentary majority and to ensure that we can deliver progress for Scotland.

Russell Findlay (Conservative, West Scotland)

Who is John Swinney trying to kid? Labour have folded and the budget will pass. Everyone knows that and he must be absolutely delighted by the weakness of Scottish Labour. This has been the cheapest budget deal in 26 years of devolution and it is typical of Labour to help the SNP, just as it did with Nicola Sturgeon’s gender law and Humza Yousaf’s hate crime act. [Interruption.]

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Let us hear Mr Findlay.

Russell Findlay (Conservative, West Scotland)

At least that means that John Swinney will not have to strike any damaging deals with the Greens, as he has so often done in the past. Can he now rule out any new taxes or extremist policies that the Greens demand?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

I have made it clear, as the finance secretary did in the budget statement in December, that the Government’s tax proposals will not change from what is in the budget and that there will be no further tax changes from this Government in advance of the 2026 elections. I hope that that gives some tax certainty, if Mr Findlay is genuinely seeking that clarity.

As for dialogue with other political parties, I go back to what I said in my previous answers. The Government’s door remains open for dialogue about the contents of the Government’s budget, because I want to have as much agreement as I can possibly construct in this Parliament to support the budget measures so that we can all work together, as we have a statutory duty to do, to eradicate child poverty in Scotland. The support of any member who is willing to help the Government in our efforts to eradicate child poverty will be welcomed by me.

Russell Findlay (Conservative, West Scotland)

The first part of John Swinney’s answer sounded like bad news for Patrick Harvie, but the second part was a bit less clear, so we will have to wait and see.

After almost two decades in power, John Swinney also said this week that he wants his budget to be “a turning point”, but what is it that he wants to turn away from? Is it all the times that he demanded to break up the United Kingdom? Is it the ferries that he wasted a fortune on? Is it the gender reforms that he backed? Is it the damage that he did to schools, or is it Nicola Sturgeon’s toxic legacy?

John Swinney was the driving force behind every damaging SNP policy for the past 18 years. This budget is not “a turning point”. Is it not just more of the same divisive, populist nonsense from John Swinney and the SNP?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

I think that the budget has touched a bit of a raw nerve with the Conservatives. I will tell Mr Findlay a few things about the Government’s budget. Save the Children has encouraged

“all political parties in the Scottish Parliament to support the budget so children can benefit from the positive steps taken.”

The Scottish Retail Consortium said:

“Whilst the proposed Scottish Budget is far from perfect”—[Interruption.]

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Let us hear the First Minister.

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

I will start again so that the Conservatives can properly hear what the voice of business is telling us about the budget. The Scottish Retail Consortium said:

“Whilst the proposed Scottish Budget is far from perfect and has flaws, there is much in it that retailers can get behind.”

It added:

“our hope is that ministers and”—[Interruption.]

Rachael Hamilton is now laughing at the voice of business in our Parliament. That is where the Conservative Party has now descended to. [ Interruption .]

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Let us hear the First Minister.

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

The Scottish Retail Consortium said:

“our hope is that ministers and MSPs can work collegiately to pass the Budget”.

In addition, Shelter Scotland has welcomed the Government’s investment in affordable housing, and local government has indicated that the budget represents a strong investment package.

There we have it. The views of child poverty organisations, business, local government and the housing sector in Scotland demonstrate that this is a budget for unity in Scotland. It is not a surprise that the populist Conservatives are having nothing to do with it.

Anas Sarwar (Labour, Glasgow)

In October, I warned of a winter crisis brewing in our national health service but, instead of taking action to develop a plan to keep patients and staff safe, the Scottish National Party buried its head in the sand.

The result has been deadly chaos. Over Christmas, 1,642 people waited more than 12 hours in accident and emergency departments, ambulances were put on red alert, a flu wave piled even more pressure on our hospitals, and thousands of people waited for hours even to get their calls answered by NHS 24.

Dr Iain Kennedy of the British Medical Association said:

“The NHS as we know it will struggle to see out another year”.

That is the deadly consequence of John Swinney plunging our NHS into a permanent crisis. Is that not the clearest sign that the SNP is taking Scotland in the wrong direction?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

The first thing that I want to acknowledge is that the national health service has been under the most acute pressure in the past few weeks. We saw that rising in December with the emergence of flu cases, which resulted in very high demand on hospital services. The number of hospital admissions as a result of flu nearly doubled from 708 in the week ending 15 December to 1,382 in the week ending 22 December. The number of admissions then rose further to 1,596 in the week ending 29 December. Those statistics are an indication of the severity of the crisis that we have seen because of flu in our country.

Thankfully, the number of hospital admissions fell by 36 per cent in the week ending 5 January, but the number of hospital admissions in the week ending 29 December was the highest in any given week—as recorded by Public Health Scotland—going back to 2010. I have said that to explain the severity of the situation that the NHS has dealt with, and I express my thanks to the clinicians, staff, ambulance personnel, NHS 24 staff, general practitioners and everyone else in the healthcare system who has given everything that they could during the past few weeks to address the situation.

The Government has always recognised that there was a need for winter planning. We did that and, despite the enormous challenges, the NHS has withstood the greatest level of pressure since 2010. I thank members of staff for everything that they contributed to achieve that objective.

Anas Sarwar (Labour, Glasgow)

Our staff deserve praise, but they are being failed by the SNP Government, too. People across Scotland are living with the consequences of SNP failure.

Take the example of Robert, who is a retired policeman from Lanarkshire. He had to attend the accident and emergency department at Wishaw general hospital during the Christmas period due to crippling abdominal pain. Due to a lack of beds, he was forced to lie on the floor—on the floor—in excruciating pain for five and a half hours before he was eventually given morphine and oxycodone. A nurse told the family that it could be worse: one patient had been waiting more than 50 hours for a bed.

Under John Swinney’s watch, Scots who have worked all their lives, such as Robert, are forced to endure painful, dangerous and humiliating circumstances. Robert’s distressed daughter summed it up best when she said:

“My dad gave his all for others in his career, but now I am genuinely scared that the next time something happens to him he won’t make it through because of the mess that the SNP have allowed the NHS to get into.

The SNP couldn’t run a bath, let alone the NHS.”

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

I begin by expressing my apologies to Robert and his family for the experience that he had in Wishaw general hospital. I accept that the pressure on the NHS has made the treatment of individuals very challenging and difficult. People will not have had the experience that they should have had when receiving hospital care. I acknowledge and accept that, and I make no attempt to deny it. However, I have to say two things.

First, the level of demand and the pressure on the NHS must be acknowledged, given the scale of the pressure that we face as a consequence of the flu outbreak that we are dealing with.

Secondly, members of staff have gone out of their way to do everything that they can—by extending shifts and contributing more than could reasonably be asked of them—to do their level best for patients. I accept that, in some circumstances, that will not be enough and will not have been good enough for individuals, but we have to acknowledge those two issues, which I put to Parliament. Demand has been colossal for the NHS and, in addition, staff have given their all to support individuals such as Robert.

Anas Sarwar (Labour, Glasgow)

There is no clearer sign that the SNP is taking Scotland in the wrong direction than its woeful record on the NHS. We need faster access to general practitioners, but instead patients are forced to go to accident and emergency, plunging it further into crisis. We need to tackle long waits for treatment, but under the SNP nearly one in six Scots are stuck on a waiting list, with more than 100,000 people waiting for more than a year. We need to tackle the number of bed days that are lost to delayed discharge but, instead, thousands of people are stuck in hospital because, although they have been cleared to leave, they are unable to get a care package.

John Swinney has no plan, and his incompetence is risking the very existence of our NHS. Is it not the case that a change of direction for our NHS cannot come from John Swinney and the SNP? It can come only with a change of Government in 2026.

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

It is interesting that the people of Scotland were promised change by the Labour Government in July. What the people of Scotland have endured is, for example, the Labour Party utterly reneging on its commitment to compensate the WASPI women—women against state pension inequality. For pensioners, the change coming from the Labour Party is the removal of the winter fuel payment, when temperatures in this country are plummeting. The Labour Party’s promise of change is an absolute farce in front of the people of Scotland.

What this Government will do is concentrate on its plans to invest in and reform the national health service by ensuring that the measures in the budget are supported to improve the quality of care for people in Scotland: so that we have an expansion of frailty units to strengthen our accident and emergency capacity; so that we can expand hospital at home, which has been a huge asset to us in dealing with the winter pressures; so that we can support general practice with an extra £13.6 million; and so that we can strengthen investment in preventative measures to ensure that people are able to follow the advice—which many people did—to get the right care in the right place in advance of the winter pressures that we have faced.

All of that is contained in the Scottish Government’s budget, and I am delighted that it looks as if the Labour Party has at last come to its senses and realised that this is a budget that has strong measures to support people in Scotland.

However, Mr Sarwar needs to get off the fence. It is time for Mr Sarwar to vote in favour of lifting the two-child limit. It is time for Mr Sarwar to vote to reintroduce winter heating payments for pensioners. It is time for Mr Sarwar to get off the fence and back the Government’s budget.

Alex Cole-Hamilton (Liberal Democrat, Edinburgh Western)

I remind the chamber that, before being elected to this Parliament, I worked for eight years for the children’s charity Aberlour Child Care Trust.

To ask the First Minister when the Cabinet will next meet. (S6F-03675)

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

The Cabinet will next meet on Tuesday.

Alex Cole-Hamilton (Liberal Democrat, Edinburgh Western)

Before entering politics, I was a youth worker, and I vividly remember the first time that I saw a medical device known as a Tummy Tub. They are essentially buckets filled with body-temperature water, which simulate the womb in order to comfort babies going through withdrawal. They are needed because some babies are born addicted to drugs.

Since 2017, at least 1,500 babies have been born with neonatal abstinence syndrome, in which they show signs of drug addiction, such as uncontrollable trembling, hyperactivity and distressed crying. Aberlour wants to open more residential beds for mothers and babies—new intensive perinatal services. However, as things stand, all the funding for that ends next March.

Does the First Minister agree that those interventions require more Government money and more certainty? Scotland desperately needs world-leading drug services, because we need to stop people dying and because we need to do more to help those babies who spend the first days of their lives addicted to drugs.

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

Over the Christmas and new year period, I saw the material that Mr Cole-Hamilton published on this important issue. I acknowledge the seriousness of the point that he puts to me. No newborn baby should be born dependent on substances, and mothers should be able to get the help that they need, free from judgment and stigma. That principle underpins the Government’s approach to tackling drug issues in our society, and more will be announced and demonstrated about that in the next few days.

I welcome the points that Mr Cole-Hamilton has put to me today. We can discuss those issues further to determine what assistance the Government, in its financial provisions, can make to honour my commitment that no newborn baby should be born with any form of dependence on substances. I am happy to discuss those issues with Mr Cole-Hamilton, and I am sure that the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care will be able to take those discussions forward. We commit to addressing the legitimate points that Mr Cole-Hamilton has put to me today.

Clare Haughey (Scottish National Party, Rutherglen)

To ask the First Minister, in light of recent freezing temperatures, whether he will provide an update on what steps the Scottish Government is taking to support low-income households with their energy bills. (S6F-03687)

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

This winter, we are forecasted to invest more than £65 million in our three winter heating benefits, which will provide vital support to more than 630,000 people with their energy bills. Additionally, we have increased investment in our warmer homes Scotland scheme by a further £20 million, taking the total investment to £85 million this financial year. That will help around 1,500 additional households to save an average of £400 a year each on their heating bills, thereby helping to tackle fuel poverty. We have also invested an additional £20 million in the Scottish welfare fund—no national equivalent of which is available elsewhere in the United Kingdom—to enable councils to provide more vital support to people in crisis this winter.

Clare Haughey (Scottish National Party, Rutherglen)

The Labour UK Government promised change. It promised to cut each household’s energy bills by £300 a year. Instead, since it came to power, we have seen not one energy price hike but two price hikes and an average fuel bill increase of £470 a year. That is on top of the effects of a cost of living crisis that was caused primarily by Westminster policies. Shamefully, the Labour UK Government removed the winter fuel payment from millions of pensioners; it gave no warning of its plans to do so before the election. Will the First Minister outline what steps the Scottish National Party Government is taking to bolster low-income household budgets, over and above helping directly with energy costs by restoring universal support next winter?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

This year, we are committing more than £3 billion to policies that tackle poverty and, as far as possible, protect people during the on-going cost of living crisis. That commitment is an essential part of the Scottish Government’s work. This year alone, we are spending £154 million on activities to mitigate UK Government policies through schemes such as discretionary housing payments and the Scottish welfare fund, which provide vital support to households.

Given the agenda for change that was supposed to come from a Labour Government, we might have expected that many of the issues that we were previously mitigating because of the previous Conservative Government’s callousness would have been removed, but they have just been carried on. Indeed, on winter fuel payments, they have been made worse. People in Scotland will realise that it is the SNP Scottish Government that will act to protect those who face difficulty and that they will not get such support from a Labour Government.

Jeremy Balfour (Conservative, Lothian)

Pensioners across Scotland have faced freezing temperatures this winter, and they will continue to do so over the coming weeks. The SNP is shamelessly trying to hoodwink pensioners by pretending that it has brought back the full winter payment for next year when it has not done so. Only the Conservatives have provided the full winter payment to pensioners—[ Interruption .]

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Let us hear Mr Balfour.

Jeremy Balfour (Conservative, Lothian)

It has not been the SNP, and it has not been Labour. Does the First Minister accept that both the SNP Scottish Government and the Labour UK Government have let thousands of pensioners go cold this winter, rather than provide the support that they deserve and require?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

Here we have it. A member of the Conservative Party, front-bench members of which want me to cut public expenditure by £1 billion to enable us to afford a tax cut, wants me to spend more money on winter fuel payments. That is what is being put to us today: demands for a £1 billion spending cut from Conservative front-bench members and for £155 million of expenditure from a back-bench member. There is absolutely not a scrap of cohesion in the nonsense that comes from the Conservative Party each day. [ Interruption .]

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Let us hear the First Minister.

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

As things stand, it appears to me that the people who are most likely to vote against the Scottish Government’s budget, which will include provisions to restore the winter fuel payment that was removed by—[ Interruption .]. Mr Hoy is shouting at me, “Not this year.” I say to him that, in about six or seven weeks’ time, Parliament will face a vote on the budget, which will include the provision of winter fuel payments for all pensioner households in 2025-26. Will the Conservatives vote for that? Will they do so? The Conservatives want a winter fuel payment, but, in a few weeks’ time, they will have a choice—[ Interruption .]

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Let us hear the First Minister.

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

In six weeks’ time, will the Conservatives vote against a winter fuel payment for pensioners or will they not? From all that I can—[ Interruption .]

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

I think that it is fair to say that we are probably all having difficulty hearing the only person who has been called to speak. Let us treat one another with courtesy and respect.

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

From what I can deduce, the Conservatives will turn their backs on pensioners in Scotland in six weeks’ time. [ Interruption .] What pensioners in Scotland can rely on is the Scottish National Party Government.

Elizabeth Smith (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

To ask the First Minister what the Scottish Government’s response is regarding the latest reported concerns on the use of Hikvision CCTV devices by local authorities in Scotland. (S6F-03677)

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

We are aware that there are CCTV cameras across local authorities that could be designed by Hikvision or include Hikvision components. Any decision on security cameras in local authorities is for councils to make. Although local authorities may choose to follow the Scottish Government’s lead in decommissioning all Hikvision cameras in the Scottish Government estate, they are under no obligation or duty to do so. We encourage all organisations to follow National Cyber Security Centre supply-chain security guidance when selecting a technology supplier. The guidance clearly sets out the security standards that suppliers should meet and the considerations that organisations should make during the procurement process.

Elizabeth Smith (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

The First Minister is well aware of previous concerns, including in the Scottish Government, about Hikvision technology being used for Chinese state surveillance, including in detention camps in Xinjiang, and of the fact that, because of Chinese intelligence law, companies such as Hikvision can be compelled to hand over material to the Chinese Government. As a result, three of our local authorities, including Stirling Council in my region, confirmed that they would not use Hikvision CCTV anywhere in their local authority. However, that is not the case for the majority of councils, nor is it the case for Police Scotland, which uses such cameras. There is therefore a concern about the surveillance of public spaces, including schools.

If ministers are to adhere to the advice of the Scottish Biometrics Commissioner that due diligence is essential with regard to the current use of Chinese Hikvision technology in Scotland, will the First Minister outline what decommissioning has taken place of Hikvision cameras and what remains in place? There is a question about full public transparency here, so I would be grateful if the First Minister clarified that.

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

As I indicated in my earlier answer, the Scottish Government decommissioned all Hikvision cameras across its estate last year. Liz Smith asks me for a further audit of that activity. She will appreciate that I can explore that issue in relation to Scottish Government activity. In relation to my ability to explore that in independent organisations such as local authorities, I suspect that the power for me to compel such an exploration does not exist; however, I could invite them to do that.

I will take away Liz Smith’s points and explore whether there is more that the Government can do to better align the activities of all public authorities in Scotland to address the legitimate points that have been accepted by the Government and that she has put to me today.

Maggie Chapman (Green, North East Scotland)

To ask the First Minister whether he will provide an update on the effectiveness of the national planning framework 4 principles in creating sustainable places across Scotland that enhance human and environmental wellbeing. (S6F-03691)

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

National planning framework 4, which was published in February 2023, was a turning point for planning in Scotland. The Scottish Government has since monitored its impact and the delivery programme was last updated in October 2024. It showed that there has been positive progress in delivering NPF4 strategy principles and national planning policies. Planning decisions are for local planning authorities in the first instance, and we continue to work with them on applying NPF4 policies and practice.

Emerging local development plans will also reflect NPF4 in each part of Scotland. The Minister for Public Finance leads on that work, with a sharp focus on improving planning authority capacity and performance. That is a key part of our response to the housing emergency, including on-going work to unlock stalled sites for development.

Maggie Chapman (Green, North East Scotland)

Just before Christmas, the Scottish Government chose not to call in Aberdeen City Council’s decision to approve plans to build on the last remaining green space in Torry, St Fittick’s community park. There is no local consent for the development, but there is overwhelming local and national opposition to it. The Scottish Environment Protection Agency has objected to the proposals on flooding grounds—and that flooding will only worsen. Torry has already borne the brunt of an unjust energy transition, losing all Torry to oil and gas infrastructure. The incinerator and sewage works loom over the city. People who live in Torry have a life expectancy that is 10 years lower than that of people in the rest of the city.

Torry should not lose its park to a corporate land grab. Will the First Minister explain to the people of Torry how the excellent principles in NPF4, which are designed to protect wellbeing and build healthy futures for our communities, are being upheld in that case?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

I will make a few points to Maggie Chapman. I understand the importance that she and the community attach to the question, but, as it involves a live planning application that rests with Aberdeen City Council, I cannot comment in any specificity on it.

However, further to my first answer, I know that Aberdeen City Council will have to be mindful of the contents of national planning framework 4 in determining its decision on the application. On the point that Maggie Chapman puts to me, NPF4 has an effect on the consideration of the application.

Finally, I know that Ms Chapman wrote to the Minister for Public Finance on the issue and that, earlier this week, he responded by pointing out that the assessment report relating to the notification to ministers on the subject is publicly available on the Government’s website. Those issues can be considered in that context.

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

We move to constituency questions and general supplementaries.

Fulton MacGregor (Scottish National Party, Coatbridge and Chryston)

I know that the First Minister will be aware of the work of the cross-party group on adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse, having had regular supportive engagement with the group in his previous roles. He will also likely be aware of recent work on mandatory reporting, and of a round-table discussion on the matter that was held in the Parliament a couple of months ago, which I chaired in my position as convener of the group. Clearly, there is now a strong coalition of support for that measure from a broad range of survivor agencies and, crucially, from survivors themselves in Scotland.

In the light of the news this week that the United Kingdom Government will now introduce mandatory reporting of child sexual abuse across professional bodies, what further consideration has the Scottish Government given to adopting that approach in Scotland?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

First, I commend Mr MacGregor on his leadership of the cross-party group on adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse. He is correct that I have had a great deal of engagement with the group and with that area of policy in my previous roles in the Government.

I take the issue of child abuse extremely seriously. It is abhorrent and, as is a matter of record, the Government has taken a number of actions, including the establishment of the inquiry that is led by Lady Smith, to examine and confront the issues.

The Scottish Government absolutely accepts the point that Mr MacGregor makes about the importance of the issue being addressed by professionals. I want to be very clear in saying that, in Scotland, professionals already have a professional duty to report child abuse. A practitioner’s failure to do so could constitute a breach of their employment contract, lead to disciplinary action or give rise to a claim for civil damages. Practitioners could also be struck off social work, teaching or medical registers for gross misconduct.

We are, however, considering the United Kingdom Government’s proposed planned approach to mandatory reporting, and we will consider all relevant recommendations that come out of the independent Scottish child abuse inquiry that I referred to.

Liam Kerr (Conservative, North East Scotland)

Devastated owners of reinforced autoclaved aerated concrete-affected homes in Aberdeen face being out of pocket, out of their homes and out of options when Aberdeen City Council purchases their homes at post-RAAC valuation rates. Claims for compensation from the Torry RAAC campaign group have seen the council point at the Government, the local MP point at the United Kingdom Government and the Scottish Government point at the council. Will the First Minister step in to help the residents or will he, too, duck responsibility and point at someone else?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

Mr Kerr will appreciate that the issues are complex and that there will be interaction between private and public interests. The Minister for Housing has met council leaders and has been in discussion with the city council about the issues, because leadership on the question is vested in it.

I am certainly happy to take away the question that Mr Kerr has raised about whether more dialogue would help to provide a solution for individuals, and I accept that distress and uncertainty are being caused for members of the public. I will ask the Minister for Housing to look again at the questions and to determine whether there is anything further that the Government can do to assist dialogue on the matter.

Daniel Johnson (Labour, Edinburgh Southern)

Yesterday, the National Autistic Society Scotland and Autistic Knowledge Development published a report on the embrace autism programme, which examines the benefits of having post-diagnostic support for people who receive the assessment of having autism. The results of the programme were extremely positive. For example, the number of people reporting having no purpose in life fell from one in four to one in 10, and understanding of autism rose dramatically. Unfortunately, in the current pathway, diagnosis is, essentially, an end point, whereas for people it is a starting point for their understanding of autism.

Although we know that, in 2019, 9,700 people in England and Wales were awaiting assessment, with the number rising to 78,000, we do not have comparable numbers for Scotland. Does the First Minister agree that we need to look at putting in place post-diagnostic support for people who receive such an assessment? Furthermore, before we do that, can we at least have accurate numbers on people awaiting assessment for autism and for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder?

I remind members of my diagnosis.

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

I accept the importance of the points that Mr Johnson puts to me. I read the report yesterday: obviously, the weakness in data is a matter of concern. I will take the point away and see whether there is more that we can do to strengthen the data that is available.

We have provided support to assist in this area through a couple of channels—the general allocation to health boards around mental health and psychological service support and, specifically, our adult autism support fund. However, I would be the first to accept that the type of assistance that Mr Johnson is talking about is unlikely to be met by the size of the resources that are currently available.

I assure Mr Johnson that we will explore the questions. The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care will be happy to do so. I know that Mr Johnson will have engaged with the health secretary on those points, because I know how much of a contribution to parliamentary proceedings he has made on the subject.

I assure him that the Government will explore what is possible on whether there is more that we can do to address the findings in the report.

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Many members wish to put questions. Concise questions and responses will give more members the opportunity to do so.

Christine Grahame (Scottish National Party, Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale)

Following the recent publication of Dr Jim Swire’s book on Lockerbie, and its subsequent serialisation on television, and given the resistance of the United Kingdom Government—even after 30 years—to requests to release documents relating to the atrocity, and the remaining concerns of some people, including me, about the credibility of the conviction of Abdelbaset al-Megrahi, would the First Minister support a UK inquiry?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

First, let me express my sympathies to those who lost loved ones on board Pan Am flight 103 and in the town of Lockerbie. I remember the event vividly. It was terrifying for the community in Dumfries and Galloway and for all the families who were affected by the atrocity.

Members will be aware that an on-going criminal case is under way in the American courts, so I would prefer not to speculate on possible inquiries while criminal investigations and judicial processes remain open. Of course, it is a matter of fact that the Lord Advocate has been very closely involved in the preparation for criminal proceedings in the United States.

Edward Mountain (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

Yesterday, the illegal release of two lynx south of Aviemore was spotted by local gamekeepers. Gamekeepers then worked with the police and the Royal Zoological Society of Scotland to safely recapture the animals, which I am pleased to say are now safe in care.

Will the First Minister join me in condemning that illegal release and in thanking all those who were involved in the capture of the animals without harming them? Will he also ask the Cabinet Secretary for Rural Affairs, Land Reform and Islands to meet me to discuss the genuine concerns that were caused for my constituents by what was a very serious wildlife crime?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

I agree with Mr Mountain’s comments in relation to the illegal release of the two lynx. It should not have happened—it was an illegal act, and I join him in condemning it.

I am enormously grateful to everybody who contributed to the safe capture of the lynx. They have been captured by the Royal Zoological Society of Scotland, which is one of the great and wonderful assets of our country. I am aware that a number of other parties assisted in the process, including Police Scotland officers and local gamekeepers.

I am certain that the Cabinet Secretary for Rural Affairs, Land Reform and Islands will be happy to meet Mr Mountain to discuss his question.

Foysol Choudhury (Labour, Lothian)

In committee evidence, National Galleries of Scotland stated that the lack of investment in its estate is increasing to “a critical level” the risk of a “catastrophic incident” in the gallery buildings. The largest project to mitigate that risk—the art works project in Granton, north Edinburgh—has yet to get off the ground. Will the Scottish Government do all that it can to expedite progress on the project? Can the First Minister assure us that no national galleries will close their doors?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

In my previous answer, I made reference to the great assets of Scotland. National Galleries of Scotland is another of Scotland’s great assets, and we are determined to support the galleries. The Government budget includes a record £34 million uplift for culture, and National Galleries of Scotland received a 9 per cent increase in its overall budget. I hope that that data reassures Mr Choudhury of the importance that the Government attaches to nurturing and supporting our cultural assets.

As a country, we are enormously fortunate to have our national galleries and the collections that they nurture on our behalf. The Government will engage constructively with the national galleries to ensure that they are well supported through the challenges that lie ahead.

I come back to my key point, which I made to Mr Choudhury before—or, maybe, around the time when—the Government’s budget was set out, which is that we need votes to get the Government’s budget through. In that answer, I promised him that there would be a big settlement for culture, and I have delivered on my word. All that he needs to do now is vote for the Government’s budget, then we will all be happy.

Stuart McMillan (Scottish National Party, Greenock and Inverclyde)

I welcome the launch of the public consultation on non-surgical cosmetic procedures, and I want to ensure that as many people as possible have the opportunity to respond to it. Will the First Minister join me in encouraging people to respond to the consultation? Their input will help to shape the action that the Scottish Government will take to improve client safety in that growing industry.

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

I am grateful to Mr McMillan for his question and I pay tribute to the campaign work that he has undertaken on the issue for some time.

The consultation to which he refers has been brought forward by the Minister for Public Health and Women’s Health in order to develop proposals for robust and effective regulation. The consultation closes on 14 February, so I encourage anyone who wishes to express a view to contribute to formulation of the approach to the issue.

Douglas Ross (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

I have been contacted by constituents who are concerned at reports that the national CJD research and surveillance unit, which is based in Edinburgh, might close in March. The unit has done significant work for the past 34 years, including the identification in 1996 of variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease. The unit is funded through the UK Government, and I have written to the UK and Scottish health secretaries about the matter.

Can the First Minister comment on the potential closure of the unit and on concerns that no guarantee has been given about retention of the data, samples and evidence that have been accumulated over decades? Does he agree that it is vital that that work be retained and made available for current and future research?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

I am not familiar with the situation that Mr Ross has mentioned, but the contents of what he has put to me sound very significant. I will discuss the issue with the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care and explore Mr Ross’s substantive points, because I understand the importance of supporting data and research. I will write to Mr Ross with a substantive answer.

Michelle Thomson (Scottish National Party, Falkirk East)

The latest Bank of Scotland business barometer shows that business confidence in Scotland rose 13 per cent in December. What assessment has the First Minister made of the findings? Can he outline how the budget will support business and thus help confidence to rise further?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

Growing the economy is central to delivery of all our priorities—in particular, our agenda of eradicating child poverty and investing in our public services. The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Gaelic and I are engaged actively in supporting investment. Yesterday, the Acting Cabinet Secretary for Net Zero and Energy and I were present at the announcement of an £800 million investment in battery energy storage activity in Scotland by Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners. That is an indication of the openness for business that Scotland represents.

The budget includes investment of £321 million through our excellent enterprise agencies, a £200 million investment in the Scottish National Investment Bank and a £15 million fund to help start-ups to grow. Those are all more reasons why the budget should be supported, so that we can all contribute to supporting growth and development of the Scottish economy, which will bring benefits to us all.

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

That concludes First Minister’s question time. There will be a short suspension to allow people leaving the chamber and the gallery to do so.

Scotland’s Connectivity

Annabelle Ewing (Scottish National Party, Cowdenbeath)

I ask members who are leaving the chamber and our visitors who are leaving the gallery to please do so quickly and quietly as we move on to the next item of business. Thank you for your co-operation.

The next item of business is a members’ business debate on motion S6M-15883, in the name of Ash Regan, on expanding Scotland’s connectivity from Edinburgh and beyond. The debate will be concluded without any question being put.

Motion debated,

That the Parliament recognises what it sees as the importance of enhancing connectivity for communities, economic empowerment and Scotland’s global competitiveness; welcomes the reported ambition of Edinburgh Airport in seeking US preclearance status to streamline international travel and support economic growth; notes the view that there is a pressing need to address reported current access congestion by creating a second entry via Gogar, to ensure that the airport remains accessible and fit for purpose; further notes the view that it is urgent to ensure that Glasgow, as a major city, is not left behind due to a lack of an integrated and efficient transport system; notes the calls for strategic investment in developing port infrastructure in Dundee, Aberdeen, Gourock and Leith to enhance maritime connectivity and economic opportunities; further notes the view that there is a need to upgrade major road routes, including addressing critical safety and capacity issues on the A9 in the Highlands, and notes the calls for the Scottish Government to prioritise sustainable and inclusive infrastructure development that connects Scotland internally and to the world, supporting growth and opportunity for all.

Ash Denham (Alba, Edinburgh Eastern)

I am delighted to announce to members that this is my party’s first members’ business debate. I have chosen to use it to address the future of our great nation’s connectivity by air, rail, sea and road. When we enhance our connections within Scotland and outwardly to the world, we secure economic empowerment and the prospect of opportunity for all, with no community left behind.

I will begin with the skies. Edinburgh airport is one of our key gateways to the world, and it has set its sights on obtaining US preclearance status. That is more than just a stamp on a piece of paper; securing preclearance would put Scotland on a par with some of the world’s most advanced travel hubs and smooth international departures while sparing travellers the delays and uncertainties that can stifle tourism and business growth.

Removing administrative barriers showcases Scotland as an open and outward-looking nation that is ready to seize global opportunities. However, ambition alone will not suffice, and we need to ensure that access to Edinburgh airport remains unimpeded. Currently, congestion at certain times can bring parts of our capital city to a standstill, which risks our losing out on the benefits of growth.

When people cannot reliably get to and from the airport, that is a problem. We need the second access point via Gogar, which is essential not just as transport infrastructure but as a statement about our forward-thinking approach to planning—planning that accommodates the needs of residents who live in that area, businesses and visitors, and that provides a solid foundation for the next generation of Scots to build on.

We should also continue to invest in the Edinburgh tram line. It is not simply a novelty; over the past few years, it has become a reliable lifeline for many residents across our city and tourists by linking the airport to the heart of our capital city and, I hope, beyond. Extending and upgrading that system would make our capital city more accessible and more dynamic, and it would appeal to investors when they decide where to land their next venture. The Edinburgh tram line can be a model for sustainable, integrated city transport.

Graham Simpson (Conservative, Central Scotland)

Where would Ash Regan like the tram line to be extended to?

Ash Denham (Alba, Edinburgh Eastern)

The member is probably aware that a number of future lines have been proposed. I am most keen—as he might understand—on the one that would come into my constituency, which would go to the Edinburgh royal infirmary.

On rail, Glasgow—one of the world’s great cities—should not be left behind, either. The city lacks the direct airport connectivity that most other major cities enjoy. The Glasgow airport rail link should be more than an aspiration; it is a necessity. That was understood more than 50 years ago when the Clyde metro was first discussed in the 1970s. The link would spur increased tourism and economic development. A traveller should be able to disembark a flight and board a train that carries them swiftly and efficiently into the heart of Scotland’s largest city. Glasgow, with its growing reputation for hosting major sporting events, should be hamstrung no longer by the lack of integrated transport systems that we all expect in a modern major city.

Equally important is the Edinburgh south suburban rail line. That project could elevate the quality of life for thousands of residents, expand the city’s liveable footprint and promote balanced development that does not rely purely on car-based commuting.

Pam Duncan-Glancy (Labour, Glasgow)

I agree whole-heartedly with Ash Regan’s comments about the connectivity of Glasgow airport. Does she agree that work involving the Glasgow metro going as far out as Glasgow airport and taking in the Queen Elizabeth university hospital must be done at a much faster pace, so that we get connectivity across the city?

Ash Denham (Alba, Edinburgh Eastern)

The member makes a good point.

Meanwhile, the west Fife rail link has the potential to revitalise local communities and amplify the region’s economic prospects while creating a back-up line between Dunfermline and Glasgow.

We also live in a world that is increasingly driven by digital convenience. It is crucial that we integrate our rail networks with modern technologies such as Apple Wallet and Google Wallet. That is not a minor detail; it is a strategy that will allow for a seamless modern experience in order to attract new generations of public transport commuters. If we want residents and visitors alike to choose our public transport, we must meet them increasingly where they live. That is, as we know, on their smartphones. We must make every journey as frictionless as possible.

Scotland’s ports also hold immense untapped potential and serve as natural gateways to maintain maritime trade and tourism. I refer to Leith, Gourock, Rosyth, Glasgow, Dundee and Aberdeen. Cruise passengers can be a valuable resource for local economies if they are well managed. Enhancing port infrastructure could catalyse new business opportunities and create job growth in urban centres and remote coastal areas. By reimagining and revitalising those sites, we would again signal to the world that Scotland is open for business, whether by cargo ship or cruise liner.

We must also urgently address our road network, particularly in the Highlands and in the south of Scotland. Too often, safety concerns and limited capacity on routes such as the A9 and the A96 hinder the flow of goods and people and create a barrier between our rural communities and the advantages of wider economic participation. Upgrading those critical corridors is not only a matter of economic convenience but about fairness, equity and the dignity of living in any part of Scotland without feeling disconnected or being overlooked.

Then, there is the Forth road bridge—a structure that has immense potential. Currently, it has only a supporting role, alongside its newest neighbour, but I think that we need a fresh vision for that iconic structure, whether it is as a dedicated route for electric and commercial vehicles, a venue for innovation or a catalyst for modern tourism. By transforming what might be deemed to be surplus into a valuable asset, we demonstrate the innovative thinking that keeps Scotland at the forefront of progress.

My call to the Parliament is clear: we need to think bigger by investing strategically, sustainably and inclusively in our infrastructure. Let us realise that every airport upgrade, port improvement, rail link and road expansion is a promise to our people that we believe in them and in Scotland as a competitive force on the global stage.

My debate today is not just about improving travel times or building better transport stations; it is about the kind of country that we want Scotland to be in the 21st century: open, confident and prepared to lead. Let us champion connectivity as a national priority by uniting our urban and rural communities and forging new global links that allow our people to flourish. In doing so, we will honour our responsibility to foster growth, open doors of opportunity and showcase to the world the very best that Scotland has to offer.

Let us send that clear message to the people of Scotland and the world, which is summed up well by paraphrasing the inspiring words of the MSP who reconvened this very Parliament: stop the world—Scotland is getting on.

Fergus Ewing (Scottish National Party, Inverness and Nairn)

I warmly congratulate Ash Regan on bringing this topic to the chamber. Improving connectivity is largely reliant on the delivery of strategic transport projects. Over the past four years, there has been, in my view, no other area of devolved policy in which so much has gone wrong at such exorbitant cost and so frequently as the maladministration of our major transport projects. I say that with great sadness. That is in contrast to the records of previous Administrations of different hues.

We have seen the motorway network around the west of Scotland being made about as good as anywhere. The Forth crossing is a national icon of international standard. The Aberdeen western peripheral route and the Borders railway have improved lives immeasurably for those communities. As for Edinburgh, well, as we heard, they decided to choose the trams.

The past four years have seen vital projects flounder and fail. That includes the A9 dualling, which was promised to be completed this year, but which, we are now told, will require 10 more years. That is just not acceptable, as a delegation made clear to the First Minister and the Cabinet Secretary for Transport last June, when we asked for the work to be accelerated. It also includes the equally long-promised dualling of the A96. Some £90 million has been spent on that project so far and not one metre of tarmac has been laid. A freedom of information request for the detail of that project has been denied because of the exemption that relates to internal candour or discussion. The justification for that is to maintain

“high quality policy and decision-making”.

If that is high quality, what does poor quality look like?

I want to be positive. I have always tried to offer constructive criticism, even though it seems to have fallen on deaf ears. We need a fresh approach to strategic project delivery—a tabula rasa, as they might say. I will briefly set out four components of an entirely fresh approach, which I can talk about only at a very high level.

First, we must take the partisan party politics out of our approach. There is consensus among the main parties, so let us negotiate and work with the main parties and not pander to our absent wine bar revolutionaries.

Secondly, put local community people, who know their communities best, in charge and involve them at all times in decision making—not just in some synthetic and bogus consultations, especially in the Hebrides with regard to Caledonian Maritime Assets Ltd and Caledonian MacBrayne. I recognise the work that Brian Wilson has done on that and the various salient points that he has made.

Thirdly, there should be far more reliance on industry and civil engineering experts, and there should be more collaboration. Let such experts, independently of Transport Scotland, advise, probe, quiz, challenge and question projects—not as paid consultants in the pocket of quangos but as independent experts who know far more than politicians about what they are doing.

Fourthly, there should be candour and accountability and an end to the secrecy of the freedom of information regime. Sadly, whether it is CMAL on ferries or Transport Scotland on roads, these quangos, which should be quasi-autonomous, have become almost fully autonomous—the “quasi” has gone and there is no accountability. Everybody can see it, and it really must change, and change radically.

I am afraid to say that, for my constituents, the past four years have been wasted years. However, the cabinet secretary—who, I know, has the best of intentions—has one year left before the next election to put things right. I urge her to do so.

Graham Simpson (Conservative, Central Scotland)

I congratulate Ash Regan on securing enough support to hold this debate. I might be wrong about this, but I may have been the first member to support her motion. It is certainly one of the most comprehensive motions that I have seen in some time—Ms Regan covers a lot of bases in it. I will not cover them all but will concentrate my remarks on aviation and the Clyde metro, which will impact on the region in which I live and that I represent.

The cross-party group on aviation’s February 2023 report argued for a policy regime that is “supportive of aviation”, with

“Stronger engagement around route development and airline support”.

The inbound and outbound aviation and tourism sectors are crucial enablers for the Scottish economy. Outbound travel is worth more than £3.6 billion a year to the Scottish economy and supports the employment of more than 30,000 people across Scotland. Research conducted by Edinburgh Napier University found that air links are the most influential transport factor in the location decisions of most overseas-based businesses that invest in the United Kingdom. Aviation matters to the local and national economies, and Scotland being connected to the world matters to us all.

The motion mentions the ambition of Edinburgh airport to have a US preclearance facility such as Dublin airport has. That means that we will have to work closely with the US Government and President Trump to persuade them that they should fund such a base here, in Scotland. The boost to the economy would be fantastic and, clearly, Edinburgh airport would benefit hugely. Having flown to America through Dublin, I can tell members that it is massively more convenient to clear customs on this side of the Atlantic than it is on the other.

I wish Edinburgh airport well, but I also want Glasgow airport to thrive. There is no doubt that Glasgow airport would do even better if the transport links to and from the airport were improved. Talk of a light rail link to the airport has gone on for too long. I can think of no other major airport anywhere that does not have better connections, and fixing that for Glasgow must be a priority.

It appears that that issue might be addressed through the ambitious but, as yet, quite woolly Clyde metro project. The programme-level business case for that network is expected by 2026, and it is estimated that timescales for the project could be as long as 25 years, which is way too long.

Having an integrated transport system in the Strathclyde region is too important to be kicked this far down the road. We need Governments to commit to it. It is too big for local government to fund, and we need to get moving. We know that a region with strong connectivity will enjoy increased levels of trade. The development of Glasgow airport represents a unique opportunity to drive economic growth and prosperity in that region.

Lastly, aviation needs to decarbonise. Scotland should be at the forefront of making the new fuels of the future, but we are not at the races yet. There was an event in Parliament last night looking at sustainable aviation fuel, and we really ought to be making sustainable aviation fuel here, in Scotland. I have spoken about that many times, and the cabinet secretary knows that. We need to do better. Transport can be the engine of growth, but too often it is the opposite.

I thank Ash Regan once again for allowing the chamber to discuss these matters.

Daniel Johnson (Labour, Edinburgh Southern)

I, too, thank Ash Regan for lodging the motion. It is incredibly important, and I was pleased to be one of the signatories to it, because it makes points that need to be made in the chamber more often. Not only am I happy that she lodged the motion, but I do not disagree with a single word that she said in her speech, nor do I disagree with any of the contributions thus far.

I say that so forcefully because the motion makes the important point that transport is not detached from the rest of public policy but is central to it. I made that point at a reception that I hosted on behalf of the Road Haulage Association. Transport is the economy—it is the fundamental connective tissue. That is true of any economy, but it is particularly true of the Scottish economy, given that what we make and produce in remote places—whether we are talking about the energy industry in the north-east, the whisky industry, which has distilleries in the Highlands and Islands, or the aquaculture industry—is so important to what makes our economy distinctive. Those places with productive capacity that make our economy distinctive and give it a competitive edge must have links with places in the central belt.

Let us take whisky, for example. It is distilled in remote parts of Scotland, but it is often bottled in the central belt. We export 43 bottles of whisky a second, and 1.5 billion bottles are produced every year. Fergus Ewing is right to talk about the importance of the A9, because the problems with that road are not simply an inconvenience. When there is a lane closure on the A9, that creates the mother of all bottlenecks and the flow of whisky that is so important to our economy gets interrupted.

It is not only the whisky industry that is affected. All industries need transport links. I believe that, fundamentally, the economy is about moving things from point A to point B. Whether we are talking about getting supplies from suppliers to places of business or finished products to customers, goods need to be transported. If we want workers to be able to get from where they live to where they work, we need to ensure that transport is available. Transport is the lifeblood and the fundamental foundation of the economy, and we need to start talking about it as such. It is not a peripheral topic or just another policy area; it is the foundation of the economy. That is especially true in Scotland, where we have so many remote areas of production.

Of the comments that Ash Regan made, the one that I support the most is her point about the link between urban and rural. We must end the practice of talking about the urban economy or the rural economy and start talking about the urban economy and the rural economy. Our economic advantages rely on urban and rural working together, and the issues with transport get in the way of that.

I recognise that I do not have much time, but I make the point that we need to have a renewed conversation about roads. Again, far too often, we talk about roads in binary terms—we say either that roads are good or that they are bad. We should not. Roads are vitally important in providing transport links between urban and rural areas. That involves delivering the major transport projects—Fergus Ewing is absolutely right to highlight the issues with those projects—but it also involves getting the basics right.

The other night, I was talking to a haulier who told me that he is spending £30,000 a month on tyres, which wear out more quickly on the outside because we are not cutting back vegetation at the sides of our roads and our roads are not wide enough. He also said that there are not enough secure resting places for drivers.

We should have a renewed debate about transport, stop talking about roads in binary terms and get the basics right, as well as delivering strategic projects.

Douglas Lumsden (Conservative, North East Scotland)

I congratulate Ash Regan on securing today’s debate and commend her for the wording of the motion, which provides something for everyone in terms of location, by mentioning Edinburgh, Glasgow and Aberdeen, and in terms of connectivity, by including road, rail and air while also highlighting how important connectivity is to our economy and communities.

That infrastructure is just as important as energy infrastructure, which is why it is disappointing that the Government does not bring those topics forward for debate in Government time. I can understand why the Government did not want to talk about subjects such as air travel and roads when it was shackled to the Greens, but the anti-growth, anti-aircraft, anti-car extremists have been ditched from Government, so those subjects should be at the top of the agenda again.

Infrastructure connections are the veins of our economy, spreading life and jobs to all corners of Scotland and allowing all areas to grow and prosper. That was known by the devolved SNP Government of the past, but the situation has changed completely and I am not sure why. Fergus Ewing pointed out that the Government used to do that but that the situation has changed completely in the past four years.

Let us take Aberdeen as an example. We have seen a huge private investment of £300 million in Aberdeen south harbour. It is a brilliant deepwater facility, but the planned infrastructure improvements to the city have not kept pace to maximise its economic potential. The SNP promised that £200 million would be spent on rail improvements to reduce journey times between the city and the central belt by 2026, and that project was backed by the Aberdeen and Grampian Chamber of Commerce because it would boost economic growth. However, the SNP abandoned that pledge and has supplied only 8 per cent of the funding. We have improved port facilities at Fraserburgh and Peterhead, and there was an SNP promise to dual the roads from Aberdeen to those places, but that project has also been dropped. Fraserburgh and Peterhead have no rail links, so they deserve decent road infrastructure.

There is to be a freeport on the Cromarty Firth to support the renewables sector, and much of the supply chain and skills for that will be in Aberdeen. The A96 was meant to be dualled by 2030, which would help to maximise the economic potential of the freeport, but that is another broken promise from this SNP Government. As has been said, the A9 was meant to be dualled by this year, but that improvement will now be at least 10 years late, which is another broken promise that means that more economic benefit will be lost. People in North East Scotland have had enough of the SNP’s spin and broken promises. They want to see commitments being delivered.

We are in budget season, and improvements to road, rail and air hardly get a mention, but connectivity is important to the economic growth that will create jobs and deliver increased revenue for us all to spend on public services.

Ash Regan was right to highlight the lack of integrated travel. It is an embarrassment that Edinburgh, Glasgow and Aberdeen airports are not connected to the rail network—something that is even more frustrating when we consider how close to those airports the railway lines are.

I have a final point to make about airports. Some years ago, the Scottish Government was looking to get air passenger duty devolved but seemed to bottle it when the Greens started pulling the strings. The devolution of APD would surely be a great opportunity to make Scottish airports more competitive and would be a lever that we could use to boost economic growth.

I thank Ash Regan for securing a debate on a topic that is vital to Scotland’s future prosperity, and I urge the Government again to allocate Government parliamentary time to transport and energy infrastructure, so that we can debate those topics fully.

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

I, too, thank Ash Regan for bringing the debate to the chamber. It has been very wide ranging in content, so I hope that members will appreciate that I cannot address all the points that have been raised. I also note for the record that I am recused as a Government minister from commenting on matters relating to airspace expansion plans for Edinburgh airport.

As Cabinet Secretary for Transport, I understand the crucial and evolving role that the transport sector plays in supporting the economy. It is estimated to support more than £9 billion of Scotland’s gross value added and around 150,000 jobs, which is about 7 per cent of the Scottish economy as a whole. Transport literally drives the economy.

I note that, in this short debate, more positive things have been said about transport by Mr Simpson, Mr Johnson and Ash Regan than we normally hear in the chamber. I encourage them to continue to support me in championing the positive role that transport can play. There will always be challenges and frustrations, but there is space in the chamber to champion transport, and its role in the economy, more widely.

Pam Duncan-Glancy (Labour, Glasgow)

I welcome the way in which the cabinet secretary is approaching the debate. She will be aware that Stuart Patrick, the chief executive of Glasgow Chamber of Commerce, has said that, under the aviation strategy, despite the airport-neutral approach, every single route has gone to Edinburgh airport. I am sure that the cabinet secretary can see that, in the context of trying to achieve regional economic balance, that approach might need to change. Will she commit today to doing something about that?

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

It is really important that we support our airports and our country as a whole. There are commercial issues that mean that we have to—and should—take an airport-neutral position, but we continue to actively support Glasgow airport and its work. I hope that some positive developments can be announced at some point in the future.

I have listened carefully to members’ views and noted their valuable contributions. Edinburgh airport and our other major airports in Glasgow, Aberdeen, Inverness and Prestwick provide vital connectivity to many destinations, helping to deliver significant economic and social benefits. We are committed to working with Scotland’s airports and airlines to help to grow Scotland’s international connectivity, particularly by developing connectivity to key international markets. That is important for tourism, business connectivity and the economy as a whole.

Douglas Lumsden (Conservative, North East Scotland)

Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

I ask the member to let me develop my point. I want to address some of the points that Ash Regan raised, because she led the debate.

We are also happy to provide non-financial support to our airports when they take initiatives that can bring clear benefits to local economies or Scotland as a whole. Ash Regan provided the good example of Edinburgh airport seeking to provide preclearance for passengers travelling to the US, which we have supported for some time and continue to support. That said, preclearance is a commercial matter for Edinburgh airport and, ultimately, it would need to be approved by the relevant authorities in the United States. I and the Cabinet Secretary for Constitution, External Affairs and Culture have already discussed the importance of the issue with the incoming US consul general.

Douglas Lumsden (Conservative, North East Scotland)

As I mentioned in my speech, the devolution of air passenger duty could be a way of boosting economic numbers and growth and making our airports more attractive. Is the Scottish Government still considering the devolution of air passenger duty?

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

Part of the agreement is to devolve APD. The issue is how we can do that in a way that does not compromise, in particular, the issues around Inverness airport. I reassure the member that the matter is being dealt with by the finance secretary as a taxation issue, and I take a keen interest in it. It is a live and current matter and we are considering how we can use the powers that have already been devolved.

Ministers are committed to reducing aviation emissions, of course, as well as to increasing our connectivity. The reserved nature of aviation means that we will continue to influence the UK Government so that Scotland can benefit fully from its jet zero strategy for aviation decarbonisation, which applies throughout the UK. We have provided funding to enable Glasgow airport to explore the feasibility of a hydrogen production, storage and distribution hub, which would help to support zero-emissions transport at that airport. MSPs who attended the airport industry rise coalition reception, which was hosted by Jackie Dunbar MSP yesterday evening, heard more about the role that sustainable aviation fuel can play in reducing the industry’s emissions, and they will have heard my positive comments about the role of airports in our economy.

On access to Edinburgh airport, which is mentioned in the motion, the Scottish Government is aware of the plans for a second access road, which are included in the recently adopted Edinburgh city plan 2030, noting that any new road will be subject to the statutory approvals process. Edinburgh airport needs to improve sustainable access. As far as possible, passengers and staff should use existing public transport options to make their journeys to and from the airport.

On Glasgow, ambitious future plans for Scotland’s transport network are set out in the second strategic transport projects review. The review’s recommendations represent a repositioning of our transport investment priorities. The focus is firmly on how transport can help us to protect our climate and improve lives while supporting the economy. As we have heard, the most transformative of the review’s recommendations involves the Clyde metro, which represents a multibillion-pound investment. When complete, that project could better connect more than 1.5 million people to employment, education and health services across the Glasgow city region. It includes integrated public transport connectivity to Glasgow airport. The development of the case for investment is being led by the Strathclyde Partnership for Transport, which is supported by Glasgow City Council and Transport Scotland. On-going work includes the development of the network and consideration of funding options for the project’s delivery. I heard what members said about that during the debate.

We recognise that a diverse and successful port sector contributes significantly to the national, regional and local economies in which ports operate. They are vital in delivering the outcomes of NPF4 and achieving the success of the national development sites that are identified in it. Ports and harbours are crucial gateways to Scotland, and Scottish ministers continue to support a market-driven approach to ports policy and to recognise the contributions of port operators to Scotland’s economy. I have taken a keen interest in supporting and promoting that area of policy since taking on the transport portfolio.

An example of our understanding of the importance of our ports to Scotland’s economy includes the recent granting of pilotage powers to the owners of the port of Ardersier. The harbour order, which was consented to last month, is an important step in a process that will put the port of Ardersier at the front of our offshore renewable sector. Those powers will support significant investment, totalling £400 million, in a remote and economically challenged part of the country.

Fergus Ewing (Scottish National Party, Inverness and Nairn)

On ports and the thorny issue of the appointments to CalMac and CMAL boards, the cabinet secretary re-appointed a Danish gentleman as the head of CalMac, and two other executive directors, of whom neither is believed to have visited any CalMac ports. Having visited Stornoway once, the Danish gentleman presumably decided that it was not worth going back to. Why were local, worthy candidates rejected? They are island residents and distinguished, knowledgeable people who know about the islands. Why is the SNP Government replacing the old absentee lairds with absentee quango bosses?

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

Fergus Ewing quoted Brian Wilson earlier. Mr Wilson was very selective in his reporting on CMAL and CalMac board members and their involvement in sites and how they engage with communities.

I agree that we need to have representatives of islands who have expertise in the required areas, and CMAL and CalMac have people from island communities on their boards currently. As cabinet secretary, I have been active in encouraging that and in advertising such issues widely. As a former Government minister, Fergus Ewing will know that there are particular skills—particularly around audit and risk—that require some experience. That has been the case with some of those appointments.

I am conscious that I have taken quite a few interventions. This is a big and wide debate, so I will continue.

Obviously, our offshore capabilities will place more demands on our ports and harbours.

On road connectivity, we know how important the A9 is. I have engaged with members by providing the Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee with updates and, in December, by briefing MSPs who have a continuing interest in the issue. We have invested in and delivered on the Queensferry crossing, the M8, the M73, the M74, the A90 and the hugely important Aberdeen western peripheral route, and we have made a variety of rail investments, including at Levenmouth, Bathgate, Airdrie, Barrhead and East Kilbride.

Considerable investments have been made right across the whole infrastructure, in challenging times and in a fiscal situation in which £6 billion has been taken out of our budget. We cannot ignore the challenges that we have faced.

Should the Parliament pass the budget bill, we will see next year a record-breaking transport budget that breaks the £4 billion level. That said, we face increasing pressures across all our transport systems to ensure that they remain safe and secure, with the most substantial allocation, as members are well aware, going to rail. Of course, there is more that we would like to do, if we had full resources and full powers.

This has been a constructive debate. I assure members that we are committed to investing in our transport networks and connecting our communities; indeed, that is vital to our future economic growth. I hope that, if this debate has done one thing, it has opened a chink not only for absolutely robust scrutiny of me in terms of my accountability as Cabinet Secretary for Transport, but to give us the space to elevate transport to its central role in Scotland’s economy.

Annabelle Ewing (Scottish National Party, Cowdenbeath)

That concludes the debate.

Portfolio Question Time

Annabelle Ewing (Scottish National Party, Cowdenbeath)

Good afternoon. The first item of business this afternoon is portfolio question time. As ever, I would appreciate succinct questions and answers, in order to get in as many members as possible.

Douglas Ross (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

To ask the Scottish Government whether it will launch an independent review of the 2024 higher history exam, in light of reports that responses to a survey by the Scottish Association of the Teachers of History were overwhelmingly critical of the Scottish Qualifications Authority review, that it had been described as a “whitewash”, and that one respondent referred to it as “the most biased and useless investigation I have ever seen a public body attempt to pass off as legitimate.” (S6O-04169)

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

The Scottish Government has accepted the findings of the SQA’s 2024 higher history review, which was an operational matter for the SQA. The Scottish Government and the SQA met the Scottish Association of the Teachers of History immediately after the publication of the survey results and agreed that there would be a package of measures to support teachers delivering higher history in 2025, including a dedicated inquiry line so that teachers, lecturers and school leaders can raise questions directly with the SQA. Another understanding standards webinar has also been organised. Further, I have asked to meet the president of SATH, and I look forward to doing so.

Douglas Ross (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

The cabinet secretary mentioned that she accepts the SQA review. Why will she not accept the findings of the survey by the Scottish Association of the Teachers of History? The findings were overwhelmingly critical and did not accept the outcome of that independent review.

The cabinet secretary mentioned a meeting that the Scottish Association of the Teachers of History had had with the SQA. SATH’s president said that the SQA did not consider the possibility of having another investigation and looking back at what went wrong this time. Will the cabinet secretary take her head out of the sand and accept that the matter has not been handled well by the Government or the SQA, and that the only way to resolve it, to please all parties, is to have a truly independent review?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

I thank Mr Ross for his involvement and interest in the matter, which we discussed prior to Christmas at the Education, Children and Young People Committee, which he convenes. I have taken an active interest in all the matters that he has raised today, particularly in relation to the involvement of the Scottish Association of the Teachers of History, which is the professional association of history teachers. It was at my behest that we continued that further engagement with SATH.

Kirsty MacDonald, SATH’s president, said:

“SATH has gathered the views of Scottish history teachers on this issue in order to ensure that everyone in the teaching community can have their voices heard. We are pleased that SQA and the Scottish Government are keen to action many of the points raised in the survey and work with the SATH committee towards positive outcomes.”

I look forward to engaging directly with the president on that matter.

I am more than happy to engage further with the member on the issue, because I recognise the legitimate concerns that he has raised today. I have acknowledged the various concerns that have been raised by history teachers in the SATH survey responses and the need to rebuild trust and confidence.

As I alluded to in my original answer, the Scottish Government and the SQA have engaged substantially with SATH as an organisation, following the publication of the review. I will continue to engage with the president, and I am more than happy to engage with Mr Ross on the issue, because I recognise the concerns that he has raised.

Jackie Dunbar (Scottish National Party, Aberdeen Donside)

How will the Education (Scotland) Bill help to rebuild trust in qualifications among pupils, teachers, parents and carers?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

The issue of trust links directly to our broader agenda in relation to education reform. It is essential that qualifications Scotland acts differently and feels different to those whom it serves. The bill provides a framework that will strengthen the way in which young people, adult learners and our teaching professions are put at the centre of decision making. That will be achieved through new governance and accountability measures that promote participation, transparency and openness, such as the learner and teacher charters and committees. A strategic advisory council will also provide a platform for parents, carers and other key stakeholders to advise the organisation.

Pam Duncan-Glancy (Labour, Glasgow)

The cabinet secretary will know that it is not just the Scottish Association of the Teachers of History that is furious. She has had correspondence, as I have, from a teacher who said:

“There is a huge distrust between teachers and the SQA. They are a laughing stock.”

Another teacher has said:

“They’ve mucked up kids’ futures.”

The fact that the cabinet secretary still will not launch or instruct an independent inquiry beggars belief. In the committee session with the SQA on 4 December, the cabinet secretary said:

“I have not yet been presented with an evidence base to substantiate my instructing the chief examiner to lead an independent review.”—[Official Report, Education, Children and Young People Committee, 4 December 2024; c 79.]

Why are the views of history teachers in Scotland, and the Scottish Association of the Teachers of History, not substantial enough for her to act?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

I thank the member for her interest in the matter. As I alluded to in my previous response, we had a substantial discussion of the issue at a meeting of the Education, Children and Young People Committee prior to Christmas.

It is worth saying that not all history teachers deliver history at higher level, and not all history teachers are involved in the marking of history qualifications. Around 17 per cent of history teachers responded to the SATH survey. The issue that I raised at committee was the need for us to look objectively at any concerns raised in the independent report carried out by the SQA, and for history teachers to engage with the Government on that matter. I have done that.

As I said in my response to Mr Ross, I have also made very clear, on the record, my continued keenness to engage with the history sector. I will engage directly with the president of SATH. It is also worth reflecting that the SQA has announced more support for history teachers, including a direct inquiry point and an additional webinar on understanding standards, which SATH has broadly welcomed.

I do not want to stop my engagement with the sector; I will continue it under the auspices of the president of SATH. I will be more than happy to update Ms Duncan-Glancy on that or on any other matters that may come to me in that regard. As I made clear in my response to Ms Dunbar, it is hugely important that history teachers have confidence in the qualifications body, but it is also a key reason for our needing education reform.

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

To ask the Scottish Government what action it is taking to ensure that there is adequate childcare provision in island communities, including in the Orkney constituency. (S6O-04170)

The Minister for Children, Young People and The Promise (Natalie Don-Innes)

High-quality, accessible and affordable early learning and childcare is vital in island communities to support children’s outcomes and to enable parents or carers to train, work or study. We fully fund local authorities to deliver 1,140 hours of ELC to eligible children, backed by almost £1 billion of funding each year, with each council being responsible for ensuring that local provision meets families’ needs. In addition, at national level, the Scottish Government is currently supporting projects to improve childcare provision in island communities through the national islands plan, our early adopter communities and the programme for Scotland’s childminding future.

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

The minister acknowledged the specific challenges that island and rural areas face on childcare provision when I raised the issue with her during questions on education last summer. Sadly, there has not been much improvement in the situation. I have been contacted by a constituent who explained that, despite the availability of spaces at her local nursery, there was not the staffing capacity to allow her two-year-old child to be given a place.

What more can the minister do to assist local authorities such as Orkney Islands Council to recruit and retain the staff required to deliver the childcare that the Government is promising, which is desperately needed by parents in my constituency?

Natalie Don-Innes

I am sorry to hear about those challenges. We are working to increase uptake of provision for two-year-olds across local authority areas, but I recognise the particular and distinct challenges there. I welcomed a recent opportunity to meet representatives of Highlands and Islands Enterprise to discuss such issues. I asked them to report to me in the spring, to support and consolidate our knowledge in that area. I will carefully consider the findings of the report when it is available.

As I said in my first answer, we are also working with island communities, local authorities and other partners to ensure that the new islands plan continues to deliver. I understand that Orkney Islands Council is taking part in the retention strand of the Scottish Childminding Association’s programme for Scotland’s childminding future, which seeks to support childminders through funded time off the floor. As childminding is a critical part of the challenges that Mr McArthur has outlined to me, I encourage him to engage with Orkney Islands Council on how access to the programme could be of benefit.

My offer to meet Mr McArthur, which I made last summer in response to his previous question, still stands.

Colin Smyth (Labour, South Scotland)

To ask the Scottish Government what its response is to the data from the pupil census supplementary statistics, which reportedly shows that the number of pupils with additional support needs in Dumfries and Galloway increased by over 1,000 between 2019 and 2023. (S6O-04171)

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

Figures published last month show that, nationally, 40.5 per cent of school-age children were recorded as having an additional support need in 2024. Those figures show an increased recognition by local authorities of the needs of pupils, which is, in turn, reflective of the inclusive approach that the Scottish Government has taken to education. However, I accept that that presents challenges across our education system. That is why next year’s budget includes additional investment of £29 million for additional support for learning for local authorities, including Dumfries and Galloway. That builds on our joint work with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities to deliver the additional support for learning action plan, which is already under way.

Colin Smyth (Labour, South Scotland)

The figures show a 16 per cent rise in ASN pupils in Dumfries and Galloway since 2019, and that number continues to rise. The number of ASL teachers has been cut by 16 per cent over the same period and by a shocking 40 per cent since 2010. What assurances can the cabinet secretary give that those cuts in ASL teachers will be fully reversed by the Government’s budget and through the recruitment of additional teachers, at a time when the council is consulting on further cuts to ASL teachers? Behind those numbers, there are far too many young people who are simply not getting the support that they need.

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

I thank the member for his question, and I recognise some of the challenge there. He will recognise that, thanks to additional investment from this Government, since 2014, the overall number of teachers in Scottish schools has increased by more than 2,500. He will also know that I updated Parliament on the Government’s response to the issue before the Christmas break. I gave an update to Parliament then on the agreement that we have reached with local authorities, which will see the £145 million for teacher numbers, which is ring fenced, uprated by £41 million. It will also secure additional investment for additional support for learning. The purpose of that £29 million is to provide additionality to local authorities such as Dumfries and Galloway to allow them to invest in specialists, because we know that those specialists make a real difference. I very much hope that the member will be encouraged by that investment from the Government and will be inclined to support the budget when it comes to Parliament.

Kenneth Gibson (Scottish National Party, Cunninghame North)

To ask the Scottish Government what action it is taking to improve discipline in schools. (S6O-04172)

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

We published a joint behaviour action plan with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities last August setting out action that is to be taken over the next three years at national and local level to support schools to improve relationships and behaviour. Since May 2023, we have responded to schools’ concerns in a number of different ways, including the publication of the national action plan, the publication of new guidance on gender-based violence, mobile phones and anti-bullying and the provision of additional funding to support the training of support staff.

The budget, if passed, will also offer a package of measures worth an additional £29 million for additional support needs, which will include support for the recruitment and retention of the additional support needs workforce.

Kenneth Gibson (Scottish National Party, Cunninghame North)

I note that the cabinet secretary referred to the further £28 million for additional support needs teachers and £1 million to aid their retention and recruitment. Does she anticipate an improvement in classroom discipline, which will better enable ASN pupils, who might otherwise struggle, to access and engage with the curriculum?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

The Government is absolutely determined to increase teacher numbers in Scotland’s schools, which is why we have reached the agreement that I alluded to in my response to Mr Smyth, which I think will make a real difference in our schools, particularly in relation to some post-Covid behaviour and relationship shifts. We know that a number of young people have struggled post-Covid with the return to formal education, which has impacted on behaviour and relationships in our classrooms. That is a problem not just in Scotland but across the United Kingdom and globally.

We also recognise that the growth in ASN presents additional challenges, and we remain committed to improving how children and young people get the support that they need with their learning. That is why we have committed that additional £29 million that I spoke to in my previous response, which is very much targeted on enhancing the ASN workforce.

Miles Briggs (Conservative, Lothian)

Teachers and unions have warned ministers that many more incidents of violence take place in our classrooms than are reported, because teachers do not have the time to report those incidents. The minister references the action plan, which had two key points—the lack of options for how to manage the behaviour of a small core group of pupils and the lack of alternative options and resources for pupils for whom mainstream education may not be appropriate. What in the budget will help to address those two things?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

I thank the member for his interest in the issue. He spoke about the time that teachers might take in reporting and recording incidents. I know from my experience that there is often a reticence among staff about reporting, because they are concerned about how their school might be perceived. We in the Government should reflect on that.

I was very clear in my update to Parliament in, I think, November 2023 that we wanted consistent and clear recording and reporting of incidents as and when they occur in our schools, because there is currently a level of reticence. The action plan sets out a range of different measures in that regard. The additional funding that I spoke to in my previous response for teacher numbers and for ASN specialists, including things such as behaviour, is fundamental to addressing the issues that Mr Briggs raises.

Willie Rennie (Liberal Democrat, North East Fife)

I am concerned about the level of violence and harassment against girls at school, but I am also concerned about the low take-up of the equally safe programme. Take-up was supposed to be up at around half of all schools by 2020, but it is at only a third of all schools. What is the cabinet secretary doing to improve the uptake of that programme so that we can tackle violence against girls?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

The member raises an important point, which was reported in the national press over the recess. I share his concerns, and I have asked officials for further advice. The equally safe strategy works alongside the gender-based violence framework, which was launched last March. It is important that those complementary pieces of work act in tandem to tackle issues relating to misogyny. We know that there have been such issues, particularly post-pandemic. The Government’s research, which was published in late 2023, showed that there has been an increase in misogynistic behaviour, particularly from male pupils, which is often directed at their female teachers. It is hugely important that those issues are addressed. I have asked for further advice, and I would be more than happy to share some of that with Mr Rennie. It is important that all schools are aware of the different approaches that are at their disposal, either through the equally safe work or through the gender-based violence framework.

Brian Whittle (Conservative, South Scotland)

To ask the Scottish Government what role schools can play in ensuring that children develop lifelong physical literacy skills. (S6O-04173)

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

Schools ensure that children develop physical literacy skills with physical education, activity and sport embedded in the curriculum framework. The active schools network provides opportunities to participate in physical activity, while developing pathways between schools and sports clubs in the community. Our active play development project also develops physical skills in early years settings. At July 2024, 99.6 per cent of primary schools and 95.9 per cent of secondary schools delivered at least two hours of PE per week for pupils in primary school and at least two 50-minute periods of PE per week for pupils between secondary 1 and secondary 4.

Brian Whittle (Conservative, South Scotland)

During the pandemic, the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization—UNESCO—reported that, with schools closed, there was a significant loss of school-based physical activity, with many children becoming socially isolated and lacking in movement opportunities. The research by Huggett and Howells, which was completed post-lockdown, observed in four to five-year-olds that there was a significant difference compared with expected age-related physical development. The researchers understand that one in six children aged five to 16 are now likely to have mental health conditions, which is an increase from one in 10 children prior to the outbreak of the pandemic. Does the Scottish Government recognise the need to educate young people about their mental and physical health in conjunction with reversing the continuing decline in the opportunities that are available to be active in schools? Does it agree that that is one of the greatest health education priorities that we face?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

I very much share Mr Whittle’s passion for the subject. I recognise the importance of physical education, particularly in educational settings, and its impact on attainment, behaviour and relationships. Of course, often, it will not necessarily be a PE teacher who is leading the after-school clubs. Mr Whittle might be amused to know that, many years ago, I took a hockey club when I was teaching at Elgin high school for a number of weeks. There are opportunities for staff across the school estate to be engaged in building better relationships, which helps with behaviour and facilitates greater opportunities for physical literacy.

I know that there are challenges in our schools post-pandemic. It is worth while recounting some of the progress that has been made, and I gave statistics on that in my initial response. However, the progress that has been made is remarkable when we look back at the position during the school session of 2004-05, when only 10 per cent of schools were providing the amount of PE that is being provided now. That is not the end of the story. The additional investment that we provide via the active schools co-ordinators, which amounts to £13 million annually, also has a substantial role to play in that regard. Finally, I should say—

Annabelle Ewing (Scottish National Party, Cowdenbeath)

Cabinet secretary, we need to make progress. Could you please bring your answer to an end?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

The education reform work that we are engaged in also provides an opportunity to drive improvements. I would be more than happy to write to the member to give him a further update on that work.

Gordon MacDonald (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Pentlands)

Scotland was the world’s first daily mile nation. Can the cabinet secretary set out the work that the Scottish Government has done to encourage further take-up of the daily mile?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

In September 2022, Scotland was announced as the first daily mile nation worldwide, with roll-out to nurseries, schools, colleges, universities and workplaces across the country. There are currently more than 1,000 nurseries, schools and special educational needs schools that are participating in the daily mile in Scotland, and more than 164,000 children and young people across Scotland benefit. The daily mile can be implemented at no cost, and its transformational impact is well evidenced. Not only can it improve a child’s fitness; it can improve their concentration levels, mood, behaviour and general wellbeing.

Sharon Dowey (Conservative, South Scotland)

To ask the Scottish Government what steps it is taking to tackle antisocial behaviour, and safeguard the welfare of girls, in schools. (S6O-04174)

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

The Scottish Government’s gender equality task force in education and learning asserts that all girls and young women should have a gender-equal experience of education in an environment that is free from sexism, sexual harassment and violence. It follows a preventative approach, as outlined in equally safe, which is Scotland’s strategy to prevent violence against women and girls. In March, I launched “Preventing and Responding to Gender Based Violence: A Whole School Framework”, which supports schools to address the underlying causes of GBV and ensure that appropriate action is taken in response to specific incidents.

Sharon Dowey (Conservative, South Scotland)

The cabinet secretary will be aware of the recent horrifying case at a Dundee secondary school, where a hidden camera was discovered in a toilet roll holder, reportedly in a unisex bathroom.

A 15-year-old boy has been charged, with reports suggesting that the camera contained hundreds of sensitive images of girls. That has left pupils and parents angry and traumatised, with at least one girl refusing to return to school.

At a recent round-table meeting, a teacher spoke of appalling and, sadly, frequent instances of boys taking advantage of unisex toilets to slip phones under cubicles and film girls using the toilets. Given those disturbing incidents, will the cabinet secretary recognise the significant safeguarding risks of unisex toilets, and will she commit to ensuring that all toilets are returned to single-sex use in order to protect young girls?

Annabelle Ewing (Scottish National Party, Cowdenbeath)

Before I ask the cabinet secretary to respond, I note that the question contained a reference to a live case. Obviously, the usual caveats apply.

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

As you say, Presiding Officer, I am not able to comment on a live case. I am aware of the incident that the member has raised, which I think was raised previously with the First Minister in the chamber. Obviously, it is deeply disturbing.

I want to reflect some of the wider work that the Government has been undertaking in this space, some of which I alluded to in response to Mr Rennie. There will be a summit on Monday, to which the member is invited, as is the First Minister, which will look at youth violence and associated challenges in the round. A number of MSPs will be engaged in that work on a cross-party basis.

Some of the issues relating to the increases in misogynistic behaviour are systemic in our society at the current time. I have documented some of the work that the Government has undertaken in relation to the behaviour in Scottish schools research and the gender-based violence framework, but some of the changes that we have seen in recent times, particularly in our young men, are deeply concerning. It is hugely important that schools are supported in that regard.

The member asked a specific question about the provision of toilets, which is, of course, a matter for local authorities, although I am happy to engage them on those issues. I recognise the concerns that she has raised this afternoon and look forward to further engagement with her on the issue. Again, of course, she will be attending the summit, along with the First Minister, on Monday.

David Torrance (Scottish National Party, Kirkcaldy)

How is the Scottish Government supporting the mentors in violence prevention programme to address gender-based violence in schools?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

We are continuing to invest to support Education Scotland to nationally co-ordinate the delivery of the mentors in violence prevention programme in schools across Scotland, and the associated training.

The programme has been delivered in more than 200 schools across all our local authorities. The work has included 5,800 senior pupil mentors delivering violence prevention lessons to more young people.

Through the programme, we are engaging young people to help them understand different forms of violence, including gender-based violence, and how they are related, and teaching young people ways to speak out against gender-based violence, bullying, and abusive and violent behaviour. The programme enables boys and girls to become part of the solution to help eradicate gender-based violence in Scotland.

Elena Whitham (Scottish National Party, Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley)

To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on the progress being made to improve the learning outcomes of pupils to prepare them for careers in the technology sector. (S6O-04175)

Graeme Dey (Scottish National Party, Angus South)

Work to improve the sciences curriculum as part of the curriculum improvement cycle is now under way, with work on technology starting in early 2025. That is being led by Education Scotland as part of a planned, systematic approach to curriculum improvement that will support high-quality teaching, learning and progression across all curricular areas.

We have provided more than £1.2 million this financial year alone to organisations that are supporting high-quality delivery of science, technology, engineering and mathematics in schools and helping to develop STEM subjects, such as computing science, as attractive and relevant subject choices.

Elena Whitham (Scottish National Party, Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley)

I know that the minister will be aware of Education Scotland’s wonderful cyberfirst girls competition, designed to help girls enter the world of cyber technology and security, in which Girvan academy in my constituency recently made the shortlist of 10 finalists. Noting that fantastic achievement, does the minister agree that it is vital that continued support is provided to equip our young girls with those much-needed skills to engage, nurture and inspire them to enter the field of computer sciences, providing them with the skills that Scotland’s technology sector and wider economy will fundamentally depend on?

Graeme Dey (Scottish National Party, Angus South)

I do. I am encouraged that, in recent years, there has been an increase in the number of girls undertaking computing science courses, not least because closing the equity gap in participation in STEM is crucial and central to our vision for an equal Scotland. However, there is more to do if we are to reach the position that we all want to be in. That is why Education Scotland is working with organisations, including Tech She Can and Code Club, to promote careers in computing science to girls. We have also invested £840,000 in Scottish Teachers Advancing Computer Science to support excellence in the teaching of computing science and the promotion of the subject to pupils and parents.

Roz McCall (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

In evidence to the Education, Children and Young People Committee, the Scottish Government’s former chief entrepreneurial adviser, Mark Logan, was particularly critical of the Scottish Government’s lack of progress on computing science teaching reform. He cited figures, which were gathered at local authority level, that showed that, in 2024 in Scotland,

“at least 32,500 pupils”

had

“no access to a computing science teacher”.—[Official Report, Education, Children and Young People Committee, 29 May 2024; c 8.]

When pupils do not have access to a science teacher, the minister cannot state that the Scottish Government is currently doing enough to improve their learning outcomes to prepare them for a career in the technology sector. What will the Scottish Government do to rectify the situation?

Graeme Dey (Scottish National Party, Angus South)

If Ms McCall had listened to what I said, she would have heard that I said that there is more to do—I was quite clear about that. More is being done. For example, the Aberdeen university pilot, which has been launched, will help in that area. We are in no way complacent, and I have acknowledged clearly that there is more to be done in that space.

Mark Ruskell (Green, Mid Scotland and Fife)

To ask the Scottish Government how the needs of pupils with additional support needs are taken into account in the procurement and replacement of the school estate. (S6O-04176)

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

It is the statutory responsibility of local authorities to manage their school estate, and the Scottish Government expects them to focus on ensuring that, in estate planning, learning environments recognise the needs of pupils with additional support needs.

Through our £2 billion learning estate investment programme, dedicated ASN spaces will be delivered in 20 school infrastructure projects. The Scottish Government and the Scottish Futures Trust will continue to learn from LEIP projects and to seek feedback from users to help inform the design of future learning spaces to support the needs of every pupil.

Mark Ruskell (Green, Mid Scotland and Fife)

It is absolutely clear that schools are being built right now without proper consideration of the promises that this Government made to future learners with additional needs.

For example, within the next year, a school in the Stirling Council area is being rebuilt. Current ASN provision is for 12 places, which, families tell me, is completely oversubscribed. The provision in the new school will, again, be for just 12 places, so that lack of ASN provision in the school building will be physically locked in for years to come.

Will the cabinet secretary review the council school building programmes to make sure that they are fit for the future, so that we do not end up repeating the mistakes of the private finance initiative schools from 20 years ago?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

I am rather surprised by the issue that Mr Ruskell has raised. I am more than happy to hear a bit more about it, and we can perhaps discuss that after today’s question session.

The learning estate and investment programme is helping to deliver additionality across Scotland to improve the quality of our school estate. A number of projects across the country have dedicated ASN school projects. The decision about school design is ultimately a matter for local authorities, and the member has mentioned a school in his region today.

This issue was also addressed at the Education, Children and Young People Committee last year. At that time, engagement with the Scottish Futures Trust confirmed that we had in place a 10-step plan, which included, as we set out in our response to the committee, a number of different areas in which we were going to strengthen work on ASN provision.

More broadly, as we have already been doing, the Scottish Futures Trust and the Scottish Government will continue to meet and engage with stakeholders—for example, the cross-party group on autism, in September—to ensure that we learn lessons.

Although I am surprised by the issue that Mr Ruskell raised today, I am happy to hear more on the detail of it and see whether Scottish Government officials might be able to provide further support. It is essential that, in improving Scotland’s school estate, the totality of Scotland’s pupil population, including those with an identified additional support need, have the building that is right—

Annabelle Ewing (Scottish National Party, Cowdenbeath)

Thank you, cabinet secretary. I am keen to get a supplementary question from Martin Whitfield.

Martin Whitfield (Labour, South Scotland)

Perhaps the answer lies in the 2018 Scottish Government-published report on the consultation exercise that looked at updating the School Premises (General Requirements and Standards) (Scotland) Regulations 1967, which included the requirement to look at ASN provision. What has happened to that legislation since 2018?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

I thank Mr Whitfield for his interest in the issue. Consultation has previously been undertaken in relation to the regulations. My officials are about to provide me with further advice to that end, and I will write to the member with an update.

Annabelle Ewing (Scottish National Party, Cowdenbeath)

That concludes portfolio questions on education and skills. There will be a short pause before we move on to the next item of business, to allow front-bench teams to change position, should they so wish.

Decision Time

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

There are four questions to be put as a result of today’s business.

I remind members that, if the amendment in the name of Jeremy Balfour is agreed to, the amendment in the name of Rhoda Grant will fall.

The first question is, that amendment S6M-16034.4, in the name of Jeremy Balfour, which seeks to amend motion S6M-16034, in the name of Kaukab Stewart, on building a migration system that supports Scotland’s economy, public services and communities, be agreed to. Are we agreed?

Members:

No.

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

There will be a division. There will be a short suspension to allow members to access the digital voting system.

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Colleagues, there is a technical issue, so I am going to suspend the meeting briefly again.

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

I remind members that, if the amendment in the name of Jeremy Balfour is agreed to, the amendment in the name of Rhoda Grant will fall.

We come to the vote on amendment S6M-16034.4, in the name of Jeremy Balfour. Members should cast their votes now.

The vote is closed.

Kenneth Gibson (Scottish National Party, Cunninghame North)

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I was unable to connect; I would have voted no.

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

We will ensure that that is recorded.

Stuart McMillan (Scottish National Party, Greenock and Inverclyde)

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. Something went wrong with my app; I would have voted no.

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

We will ensure that that is recorded.

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

The result of the division on amendment S6M-16034.4, in the name of Jeremy Balfour, is: For 27, Against 90, Abstentions 0.

Amendment disagreed to.

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

The next question is, that amendment S6M-16034.3, in the name of Rhoda Grant, which seeks to amend motion S6M-16034, in the name of Kaukab Stewart, on building a migration system that supports Scotland’s economy, public services and communities, be agreed to. Are we agreed?

Members

: No.

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

There will be a division.

The vote is closed.

Ariane Burgess (Green, Highlands and Islands)

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I was unable to connect through my app. I would have voted no.

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Thank you, Ms Burgess. We will ensure that that is recorded.