Scottish Parliament, 5 December 2024

271 contributions from 61 members. The official report.

General Question Time

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Good morning. The first item of business is general question time.

Stuart McMillan (Scottish National Party, Greenock and Inverclyde)

To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on its plans to introduce regulation for pet groomers, animal boarders and dog walkers, in light of the results of the public consultation from earlier this year that showed a high level of support for such measures. (S6O-04073)

Jim Fairlie (Scottish National Party, Perthshire South and Kinross-shire)

Although the consultation that was undertaken last year demonstrated support for licensing, concerns were expressed about the proportionality and cost of statutory licensing and about the capacity of local authorities to absorb and meaningfully enforce additional licensing requirements when budgets are already stretched. We are therefore assessing whether less onerous and more proportionate approaches, such as registration schemes linked to codes of conduct, could deliver similar outcomes to licensing.

In the meantime, our immediate focus is to deliver on the proposal to regulate canine fertility businesses, due to the significant animal welfare concerns that are associated with that sector.

Stuart McMillan (Scottish National Party, Greenock and Inverclyde)

Those of us who have pets recognise that they are treated as one of the family, and it is reasonable for pet owners to want reassurance that any services that they access are insured and that staff are appropriately qualified, which, as the minister will know, has not always been the case.

Will the minister commit to consulting the sector more widely to understand the scale of growth in pet services in Scotland, with the intention of developing a proportionate yet robust regulatory framework covering the sector to protect pets from harm?

Jim Fairlie (Scottish National Party, Perthshire South and Kinross-shire)

I agree whole-heartedly with the member’s point that pet owners need to be reassured that persons who provide pet services are suitably insured and qualified. I therefore encourage any pet owner who accesses such services to undertake due diligence and to confirm with the service provider that they are insured and qualified.

We do not propose to take forward further consultation at this time, but the Government will continue to engage with stakeholders in order to develop proportionate controls for pet service providers.

Mark Ruskell (Green, Mid Scotland and Fife)

To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on how it will ensure that all appropriate roads have a safer speed limit of 20mph by 2025. (S6O-04074)

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

The Scottish Government is firmly committed to reducing road casualties and creating safer streets for everyone. Evidence shows that a person is seven times more likely to survive if hit at 20mph than at 30mph.

All local authorities are committed to meeting the 2025 deadline and have developed their plans to designate their streets, and £4 million has been provided to 21 local authorities this financial year to aid implementation. Transport Scotland has issued national guidance to support local authorities with the roll-out of 20mph speed limits on appropriate roads.

Early feedback from Scottish Borders Council and Highland Council, as early adopters, has been positive, with a recognition from local communities that the initiative can significantly reduce road casualties, encourage sustainable travel and foster safer, more vibrant communities.

Mark Ruskell (Green, Mid Scotland and Fife)

It is clear that every council in Scotland is ready to roll out 20mph, which is remarkable. That means that, by the end of next year, every child in every community could be living on a safer street. Local implementation, alongside a national programme, will help to drive forward the national road safety messages that have been so successful in driving down casualty rates in Wales. However, when I speak to councils and the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, there is uncertainty about what funds will be available to get the job done in the next 12 months, particularly in relation to staff resources in councils. How will the budget that was announced yesterday enable each and every one of those 32 councils to deliver implementation plans in the next year, as it is clear that that will cost more than £4 million?

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

Council road authorities had to submit the expected expenditure to deliver their plans to achieve the 20mph limits on the roads that they have chosen in their areas. However, we know that early adopters have spent significantly under those estimates—in one case, by 62 per cent. Therefore, we are confident that there are sufficient funds in the 2025-26 budget to meet the needs. That funding can be found in the road safety line in the roads budget that was published yesterday.

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

There is a brief supplementary question from Sue Webber.

Sue Webber (Conservative, Lothian)

Bus passengers in Edinburgh face longer journeys under the council’s plans to cut speed limits from 60mph to 20mph. The proposed changes are expected to cost £850,000 and would affect 66 roads in Edinburgh. Lothian Buses has raised concerns that the slower traffic will affect journey times for passengers, adding to the misery that commuters face across our capital. Only 18 fines for breaching the 20mph speed limit in Edinburgh have been issued since 2020-21. Without enforcement, it is nothing more than an expensive box-ticking exercise. Does the cabinet secretary agree that introducing more 20mph limits will increase congestion and journey times and do nothing to encourage people to use public transport?

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

I am not sure whether the Conservative Party is aware of the data that shows that there are significant reductions in the numbers of casualties on affected roads. That is the driver for that change and improvement. I know that the member is a former Edinburgh councillor, so she will be aware of the powers that local authorities have on enforcement. She makes a valid point about whether the 20mph limit slows traffic and whether there is an issue around congestion affecting bus travel times. However, again, that is an issue that the City of Edinburgh Council, which owns the buses in Edinburgh—

Sue Webber (Conservative, Lothian)

It does not own the buses.

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

Well, it runs a publicly—[Interruption.]

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Ms Webber, will you allow the cabinet secretary to respond?

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

Lothian Buses has shareholders. A very small number of shares are held by West Lothian Council; shares are also held by the City of Edinburgh Council. I would have thought that the transport spokesperson for the Conservatives might have known that. In putting forward a reasonable case for how we make sure that we get the benefits of increased bus use as well as safer streets, I refer the member to her former colleagues in the City of Edinburgh Council on that Edinburgh-specific issue.

Richard Leonard (Labour, Central Scotland)

To ask the Scottish Government what steps it is taking to maintain and grow supported businesses. (S6O-04075)

Ivan McKee (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Provan)

The Scottish Government values the role of supported businesses and is committed to helping them to achieve commercial sustainability. In Scotland, we pride ourselves on leading in that area with legislation and systems that support that. Legislation such as the Procurement Reform (Scotland) Act 2014 contains a number of provisions to support supported businesses. The multi-supplier dynamic purchasing system for requirements reserved for supported businesses describes a range of products and services that supported businesses can provide to the public sector.

Recent data shows that almost £28 million of public sector spend was spent by public bodies with supported businesses in the previous year. Supported businesses are also included in the recently published social enterprise action plan. We are now working with officials to provide further guidance to public bodies and to set guidelines on how much they should seek to spend with supported businesses across the country.

Richard Leonard (Labour, Central Scotland)

I thank the minister for that answer. Haven Products in Larbert, with nine out of 10 of its workforce disabled, is facing closure. I have been pressing the Government to act to save those jobs for more than six months. As of today, neither the Government nor its short-life working group has come up with a plan to save the factory. This week, the board of Haven Products confirmed that, unless the situation is resolved, redundancy consultations will begin in early January. Does the minister agree that the time for words has long passed? Those workers need action. Will he give an undertaking today that a rescue plan will be put in place before Christmas to save those vital jobs?

Ivan McKee (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Provan)

I absolutely agree with the member, and I genuinely thank him for bringing the issue to the chamber. I have met the chief executive of Haven Products, who I believe will be visiting the Parliament in the next few days, at the request of Mr Leonard.

I have been working tirelessly on the matter to support Haven Products and other supported businesses, because we recognise that it is not only the right thing to do but, frankly, more cost effective to support such businesses than it is for them to close and for the individuals concerned to have to be supported, with costs to wider public services. I am absolutely committed to doing that.

Richard Leonard will be aware that we work within a regime on what we can and cannot do with specific procurement requirements, but I have told officials that we need to deliver on this and ensure that Haven Products and other supported businesses are supported. Officials have identified opportunities in the medium term, which is welcome, but, as Richard Leonard rightly identifies, we need the delivery of orders and financial support in the immediate term. He can rest assured that we are working to ensure that that happens.

Colin Beattie (Scottish National Party, Midlothian North and Musselburgh)

The Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations has estimated that Labour’s national insurance hike will cost the sector £75 million, with Edinburgh social enterprise Four Square warning that, after Labour’s tax hike, it has “nowhere left to cut”. What assessment has the Scottish Government made of the impact on the third sector of the changes? Will the minister outline how the Scottish budget, which was announced yesterday, is supporting third sector organisations, including social enterprises?

Ivan McKee (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Provan)

Colin Beattie raises an important point. The measures that have been taken in the United Kingdom budget have a significant impact on the sector. We are working with the sector and others to understand the full impact, and we are holding negotiations with the UK Government to secure funding for all the organisations that are impacted in Scotland as a consequence of those actions. Colin Beattie will know that the Scottish budget, which was published yesterday, contains a range of measures to support those enterprises.

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

I would be grateful for concise questions and responses.

Colin Smyth (Labour, South Scotland)

To ask the Scottish Government what its response is to Public Health Scotland’s recent national health service dental monitoring report, which indicates that almost 40 per cent of adults in Dumfries and Galloway are not registered with an NHS dentist. (S6O-04076)

Jenni Minto (Scottish National Party, Argyll and Bute)

The Scottish Government has made available tailored grant funding, and NHS Dumfries and Galloway recently held a successful Scottish dental access initiative application, which will result in 2,000 new NHS registrations in Moffat. We are also funding dental emergency evening clinics for unregistered patients, which have been in operation for almost 18 months.

Officials are working closely with the board to ensure that measures are in place for appropriate staffing of the Gardenhill practice in Castle Douglas to support the provision of emergency and urgent care to unregistered patients and to provide routine dental care to a number of registered patients in priority groups.

Colin Smyth (Labour, South Scotland)

It is not just about adults; more than 20 per cent of children in Dumfries and Galloway are not registered with an NHS dentist, which are the worst figures in Scotland. The actions that the minister has outlined are clearly not working, because the problem has been getting worse. Why is the crisis so bad in Dumfries and Galloway? Why is the action not making a difference? More important, what more will the Government do to tackle the crisis, before NHS dentistry becomes a thing of the past for far too many of my constituents?

Jenni Minto (Scottish National Party, Argyll and Bute)

Colin Smyth will recognise that, prior to Brexit, a large proportion of the dentists in Dumfries and Galloway and in other rural areas of Scotland came from European countries. I recently met the Minister of State for Care, Stephen Kinnock, as well as my counterparts in Wales and Northern Ireland, to talk specifically about how we can improve the recruitment of dentists in the United Kingdom—this is an issue not just in Scotland.

Colin Smyth will be pleased to recognise the important investment in dentistry that the Scottish Government has put into the budget for next year. I suggest that he supports the Scottish budget, so that we can continue the improvement.

Douglas Lumsden (Conservative, North East Scotland)

To ask the Scottish Government whether it plans to update planning guidance for battery energy storage systems. (S6O-04077)

Alasdair Allan (Scottish National Party, Na h-Eileanan an Iar)

Where new development proposals come forward, our fourth national planning framework, which was published and adopted in 2023, ensures that the impacts of proposals on communities and nature are important considerations in the decision-making process.

On 5 November, the National Energy System Operator published advice to the United Kingdom Government on how to achieve clean power by 2030. At the same time, NESO also published a consultation on connections queue reform, and the UK Government is due to publish a clean power action plan. The outputs of that work will be considered in due course.

Douglas Lumsden (Conservative, North East Scotland)

At present, 18 battery sites are operational and a further 18 are under construction. Planning permission has been granted for 132 sites, where construction is awaited, and applications for planning permission have been submitted for a further 136 sites. The situation is completely out of control. One developer told us that there is a gold rush to get applications for battery sites into the planning process before the Scottish National Party Government puts controls in place.

Will the Government consider a moratorium on new applications until we have an energy strategy and can evaluate how many battery sites are required and where?

Alasdair Allan (Scottish National Party, Na h-Eileanan an Iar)

It is important to say that there is a statutory structure that must be followed in all decision making in the planning system. Section 25 of the Town and Country Planning (Scotland) Act 1997 requires that decisions must be made in accordance with the development plan.

I understand the point that the member makes about cumulative impacts. The cumulative impacts of development, including landscape, visual and amenity impacts, are important considerations in the determination of applications, where such impacts are identified.

Claire Baker (Labour, Mid Scotland and Fife)

To ask the Scottish Government what it is doing to improve rail services for passengers in the Mid Scotland and Fife region. (S6O-04078)

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

I appreciate that services in Fife have been affected by overcrowding for some time. ScotRail is working hard to increase capacity and to improve the resilience of services, and it has recruited more maintenance and engineering staff, as well as train drivers.

Newly recruited engineering staff will allow for two high-speed trains to be returned to service between Glasgow and Aberdeen from the December timetable change, which will release diesel trains for other parts of the network, and additional stops will continue to be made at Dalmeny and Burntisland to reduce pressure on busy morning and evening Leven services.

The electrification work between Edinburgh and Dalmeny has started. That is the first step towards electrification of the Fife routes.

In Mid Scotland and Fife, which has a reliable service, ScotRail is adding longer trains for Saturday services on the Glasgow to Alloa line to meet the growing passenger demand.

Claire Baker (Labour, Mid Scotland and Fife)

The cabinet secretary has identified a number of issues with the trains in my region, but I want to ask about ScotRail’s proposals to close—sorry, to adjust the hours of—54 station ticket offices. That conceals the fact that 47 stations across my region will change their hours. I feel that there is a lack of transparency around those plans and that they are not being clearly communicated to the public. The 2022 consultation showed that passengers did not support changes to ticket offices, and the Government’s own report on the safety of women and girls emphasised the importance of having visible station staff.

The on-going consultation does not include members of the public, so how will the cabinet secretary ensure that the needs of all passengers are heard? Can she confirm that ScotRail will provide an up-to-date equality impact assessment?

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

With regard to that latter point, yes, I can. That point has already been made to a number of members.

Claire Baker will know that ticket office opening hours have not been adjusted for 30 years. The proportion of tickets that are sold at ticket offices has reduced from 78 per cent to 14 per cent. I am glad that she corrected herself: no ticket offices are closing; their hours are being adjusted.

In Claire Baker’s region, the ticket office at Cowdenbeath station will have its opening times reduced, but staffing hours will remain unchanged. Opening hours at Cupar will increase, and although opening times at Dalmeny will be reduced, staffing hours will remain unchanged on that line. Opening hours at Dunfermline city will be increased, and although opening times at Leuchars will be reduced, staffing hours will remain unchanged.

Visibility on platforms and in stations is important, as Claire Baker has stressed, and that is the focus of the adjustments that are being made, which are currently being consulted on with staff.

Jackie Dunbar (Scottish National Party, Aberdeen Donside)

To ask the Scottish Government how it is supporting NHS Grampian with its winter preparedness. (S6O-04079)

Neil Gray (Scottish National Party, Airdrie and Shotts)

Earlier this year, the Scottish Government and the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities jointly published a plan setting out how we will address the exceptional pressures that our health and care services face over winter. Building on previous experience, we are supporting local systems, including NHS Grampian, with a comprehensive, whole-system range of effective measures. That includes preventative action such as vaccination programmes; ensuring that people receive the right care in the right place and at the right time through measures such as hospital at home and public messaging campaigns; maximising capacity and capability in the system; and focusing on the wellbeing of our workforce.

Jackie Dunbar (Scottish National Party, Aberdeen Donside)

Following the critical incident that was declared in NHS Grampian last week, will the cabinet secretary speak about the actions that the Scottish Government will take to alleviate pressure on accident and emergency services in the winter months and to ensure the most effective possible care for patients?

Neil Gray (Scottish National Party, Airdrie and Shotts)

I again place on record my thanks to the staff in NHS Grampian and other health boards who were involved in responding to the critical incident. I recognise the clear relationship between long waits and overcrowding in A and E and the increased risk of harm, which is why the budget for next year is investing in action on waiting times and will address capacity in primary and social care. Clearly, those things can happen only if members vote for the budget.

We also continue working with health boards and the national centre for sustainable delivery to enhance patient flow at acute sites, improve discharge planning and hospital-at-home services and reduce the conveyance of people from care homes, where that is clinically appropriate. All of that will, in turn, reduce pressures on A and E.

Finally, officials continue to meet regularly with NHS Grampian specifically to discuss the improvement activity that is under way within the board and any challenges that it faces.

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

That concludes general question time.

First Minister’s Question Time

Russell Findlay (Conservative, West Scotland)

I begin on a positive note, by welcoming something that the Scottish National Party Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government did yesterday—not announcing the disastrous SNP budget, of course, but holding up my letter to John Swinney for all of Scotland to see, which I thank her for. That letter set out how my party is proudly on the side of Scotland’s hard-working taxpayers and businesses, and I brought my own copy here today.

Instead of reducing tax, the SNP has dragged more Scots into paying higher income tax. Every worker here who earns more than £30,000 a year will be forced to pay more than those in the rest of the United Kingdom. How can the SNP boast about always taking more for public services that only ever get worse?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

I reassure you, Presiding Officer, that, unlike Mr Findlay, I will not be using props in the course of my answer.

Mr Findlay helpfully reminds the public of the problem with the letter that he sent me the other week. His letter discloses a £950 million gaping hole at the very heart of Conservative taxation proposals to this Parliament. That reeks of economic incompetence, and that economic incompetence is a consistent approach for the Scottish Conservatives.

Russell Findlay (Conservative, West Scotland)

Because I know how much John Swinney appreciated my first letter, I sent him a second one this morning, which set out the savings that we would make. Our plans are reasonable, affordable, fully costed and fully funded and would deliver fairness for Scotland’s taxpayers, but the SNP proudly boasts that it will make Scottish workers pay £1.7 billion more next year than they would if they lived elsewhere in the UK.

The finance secretary even had the audacity to shout about reducing bills for lower earners, but the SNP’s con trick is worth, at most, £1 a month to people who earn less than £30,000—£1. What are people supposed to do with that? Buy a selection box from Poundland?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

I think that Mr Findlay will have to practise his gags a little more after that one.

I have not seen Mr Findlay’s letter yet, because I was at an early learning centre this morning explaining the importance of the Government’s commitment to lift the two-child cap that the Conservatives imposed, which is sending children in our country into poverty.

I will have a good look at the letter when I get back upstairs, but I will tell Mr Findlay two things. First, if we look at tax alone, more than 50 per cent of taxpayers in Scotland are better off than those in the rest of the United Kingdom, as a consequence of the tax decisions that we have made. When we take tax and social security together, 60 per cent of taxpayers in Scotland are better off than they would be if they lived in the rest of the United Kingdom. That is what I call delivering for Scotland.

Russell Findlay (Conservative, West Scotland)

I hope that John Swinney learned something from the children at the early learning centre.

We know that public services never improve under the SNP. More taxpayers’ money is going to the national health service, but the SNP has no plans to reduce waiting lists or bureaucracy. This week, Scotland’s independent Auditor General said that the Government has no vision for our health service and that changes are “urgently needed”. Hospitals across Scotland are already in crisis, and while the SNP health secretary takes taxpayer-funded limos to Pittodrie, ambulances are being sent away from Aberdeen royal infirmary, yet the SNP Government makes only a rehashed pledge to reduce waiting times. That same promise was supposed to have been delivered by September—three months ago. Why would anyone believe that the SNP will keep its word this time?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

Mr Findlay made the point that there is apparently no enhancement of public services in Scotland, but the early learning and childcare centre that I visited this morning is part of a network around the country that is supported by £1 billion of early learning and childcare investment. That has meant that, in this country, three and four-year-olds—and many two-year-olds—have access to 1,140 hours of early learning and childcare. That promise was made by the Scottish Government and delivered by this SNP Government.

Mr Findlay talks about efficiency in government. The Minister for Public Finance, Ivan McKee, who is sitting in the chamber, was referenced by the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government yesterday as having a remit to address the issues of productivity and performance in public services. He is devoting his energy to doing that as part of the plans that the health secretary and other ministers are taking forward in our public services.

For Mr Findlay’s benefit, I say that this Government is absolutely determined to improve the performance of our public services. There are challenges in our public services that arise out of the disruptive effects of Covid, but this Government is 100 per cent focused on making sure—[ Interruption .]

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Let us hear the First Minister.

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

This Government is 100 per cent focused on ensuring that the resources that we have decided to allocate to our public services have the effect of meeting the needs of the people of Scotland. That will happen only if this Parliament supports the Government’s budget. I invite Mr Findlay to do so.

Russell Findlay (Conservative, West Scotland)

I, for one, am delighted to hear that John Swinney is going to fix the mess that he has made over the past 17 years. He is going to begin fixing the mess that he has made over 17 long, miserable years.

The budget perfectly illustrates what a John Swinney Government looks like, with broken promises rehashed, no plans to fix the NHS, benefits rising out of control, bigger bills for businesses, higher taxes on workers and more waste on ferries and nonsense projects. People have had enough of taxes going up while public services decline. The budget might work inside the left-wing Holyrood bubble, but how does it help workers and businesses in the real world?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

I suspect that businesses around the country will welcome the tripling of investment—[ Interruption .] Mr Burnett is laughing and Mr Lumsden, as usual, is out of his seat shouting and bawling. Maybe—[ Interruption .]

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Members, let us settle.

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

Maybe Mr Lumsden and Mr Burnett can find it in themselves to welcome the tripling of investment in offshore renewables that the Government has put in place. Maybe they could welcome the £768 million investment in housing to boost affordable housing expenditure in Scotland. Perhaps they could welcome the £200 million refuelling of the Scottish National Investment Bank to strengthen the Scottish economy. That is this Government delivering to strengthen the economy in Scotland.

Anas Sarwar (Labour, Glasgow)

Yesterday, the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government laid out the Scottish National Party Government’s budget for the upcoming year. Thanks to a United Kingdom Labour Government getting rid of the Tories and ending the era of austerity, the Scottish Government has an additional £5.2 billion to spend. That was an opportunity to confront the challenges that our country faces and take us in a new direction—an opportunity that was, clearly, missed. [Interruption.]

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Members!

Anas Sarwar (Labour, Glasgow)

Nowhere is that more important or clearer than in our national health service. Given that one in six Scots is on an NHS waiting list, why is it the height of John Swinney’s ambition that, by March 2026, Scots will not have to wait for more than a year just for an appointment?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

As I explained to Russell Findlay, the Government is absolutely focused on improving waiting times, and the record financial settlement for the health service of £21 billion is a very significant contribution to enabling that to happen. Ministers will work with health boards, as I saw when I visited Forth Valley royal hospital on Monday, on initiatives to practically improve waiting times in our hospitals. Anas Sarwar has my commitment that the Government will do that.

I am interested in Mr Sarwar’s language about a “new direction”. If Mr Sarwar does not like the direction that we are taking on health service expenditure, shall I take that to mean that he does not support the increase to £21 billion? Does he want less than that? Is that the new direction that Mr Sarwar wants, with less investment in the national health service? [ Interruption .]

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Let us hear the First Minister.

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

I say simply to Mr Sarwar that I welcome the investments that are being made in our public services and public finances as a consequence of the United Kingdom Government’s decisions. That is welcome. I have made that clear before.

Daniel Johnson (Labour, Edinburgh Southern)

Your MPs voted against it.

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Mr Johnson!

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

What now matters is whether the Labour Party will support the Government by making sure that those numbers can be put into practical reality. Will the Labour Party support the Government’s budget to make sure that we can invest £21 billion in the national health service?

Anas Sarwar (Labour, Glasgow)

John Swinney has forgotten that he is not a bank manager and is meant to be running a country and delivering positive outcomes for it. All he does is what he normally does: the SNP Government focuses on the inputs, not on the outcomes for patients across the country.

Within the past week, we have had damning reports from the Institute for Fiscal Studies and Audit Scotland. According to the IFS, despite having proportionally higher spending and more staff, Scotland’s NHS is “lagging behind England’s”; on almost every measure, performance is worse; and there are poorer outcomes for Scots. According to Audit Scotland, despite higher funding and more staff, fewer patients are being seen, there is no clear plan for reform, there is no delivery plan, and “greater leadership” is needed.

However, yet again, those warnings have been ignored. Why is the SNP Government squandering the opportunity of £5.2 billion of additional money and record levels of spending, which could take our NHS in that new direction?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

On performance, there have been increases—for example, in the number of operations that have been performed in the national health service over the past 12 months and in the performance on waiting times in a number of disciplines. In cancer care, there have been improvements in performance in relation to the 31-day standard, so that more patients are being treated and are treated within a quicker timescale.

Mr Sarwar asked about the “squandering” of the opportunity. The only squandering of the opportunity will be if the Government is unable on 1 April to put the practical proposals in the budget into practice. That means that the Parliament has to pass the Government’s budget. We are very open to constructive discussion with political parties about the contents of the budget. However, Mr Sarwar will—to use his word—squander the possibility of strengthening our public services if he does not vote for the Government’s budget.

Anas Sarwar (Labour, Glasgow)

I remind John Swinney that SNP MPs voted against £5.2 billion of additional money coming to the Scottish Government.

John Swinney did what he always does: he read out a long list of inputs and did not address the issues that would improve outcomes for patients. That is the usual sticky-plaster approach, which is all about inputs and not about outcomes. [ Interruption .]

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Let us hear Mr Sarwar.

Anas Sarwar (Labour, Glasgow)

I can understand why his blood pressure is high. Do not worry, Presiding Officer.

It is not just about how much we spend; it is about the quality of care that patients receive and the health of our nation. It is not just about how much we spend; it is about supporting businesses to thrive and grow. It is not just about how much we spend, it is about our children leaving school with the skills that they need.

On all measures, John Swinney and the SNP have failed. They just hope that they can spend more money in the same way and get a different result. Is it not clear that the Government has no plan, no leadership and no vision for Scotland?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

I think that there is a big problem if an Opposition leader in the Parliament cannot change his script to adjust to the answers that I give. In a very basic exchange, Mr Sarwar said that I have talked only about inputs, but I have talked about the outcomes and performance of the national health service. It is not good enough, if Mr Sarwar cannot even step up to be a decent leader of an Opposition party, for him to aspire to do anything else. [ Interruption .]

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Let us hear one another!

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

If Mr Sarwar is concerned about business, he should be concerned about the impact of the changes to employer national insurance contributions. He need only look at his UK Government’s data on that—the changes to employer national insurance contributions will not improve the standard of living of people in the United Kingdom over a five-year period. That is a rather gloomy outlook that Mr Sarwar has attached himself to.

I simply say to Mr Sarwar that I am interested in making progress for Scotland—it is what I have been about all my political life—and we have delivered big progress. I told Mr Findlay about the progress on early learning and childcare. Economic performance in Scotland has improved faster than it has in the rest of the United Kingdom. I want to build on that, but it will happen only if Mr Sarwar and his colleagues support the Scottish Government’s budget, which will repair the damage from the Labour Government’s winter fuel payment cuts and erase the two-child limit. Mr Sarwar should support the Government’s budget and deliver a good outcome for the people of Scotland.

Alex Cole-Hamilton (Liberal Democrat, Edinburgh Western)

To ask the First Minister when the Cabinet will next meet. (S6F-03599)

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

The Cabinet will next meet on Tuesday.

Alex Cole-Hamilton (Liberal Democrat, Edinburgh Western)

Rural healthcare is a key priority for the Scottish Liberal Democrats. The Government listened to some of our demands by including in the draft budget yesterday provisions for a long-overdue replacement for the Belford hospital in Fort William. Now, we need shovels in the ground. However, the Government stopped short of replacing the Gilbert Bain hospital in Lerwick or ensuring 24/7 access to emergency care at Portree hospital.

I will remind the First Minister about what is going on in the far north. Mothers are forced to travel 100 miles through snow and ice to give birth in Inverness. An investigation by the Scottish Human Rights Commission received testimony that the situation was “barbaric”. Women have been left terrified by four-hour drives in the dark, with deer on the road. Some women have even lost their fertility because of delays in accessing Raigmore hospital in emergencies. No wonder people are moving away or choosing not to have any more children.

Liberal Democrats have repeatedly asked for midwife-led maternity care in the far north. What is the First Minister going to do about it? Those mums are still in danger.

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

Mr Cole-Hamilton has raised a number of issues with us, both in our discussions and in the points that he has put to me today. We have set out in the budget a number of steps that will address some of the issues with access to general practice services. We will look further at the issues relating to Portree that Mr Cole-Hamilton mentioned. I am glad that we have made progress on the Belford hospital, and my colleague the Deputy First Minister is delighted with that announcement, too.

The Caithness situation is slightly different, because it is informed by assessments of patient safety, given the volume of maternity cases that can be dealt with at Caithness general hospital. It is a question not of investment but of the clinical safety of the service that is involved. I totally understand the challenges and difficulties with that journey that Mr Cole-Hamilton narrated to me—it is a long and difficult journey. However, when ministers receive advice on clinical safety, we have to have very strong reasons for not following that advice.

I will happily engage with Mr Cole-Hamilton and his colleagues, as will the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care, on this important question to try to address the concerns that I know exist in Caithness about that issue and to find a way of reassuring the individuals on whose behalf Mr Cole-Hamilton asked the question.

Marie McNair (Scottish National Party, Clydebank and Milngavie)

To ask the First Minister what assessment the Scottish Government has made of the reported concerns of not-for-profit social care providers regarding the impact of increased employer national insurance contributions on the sector in Scotland. (S6F-03615)

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

Not-for-profit social care providers play a vital role in delivering care across Scotland, and I am grateful for the hard work and dedication of everyone working in the sector. The Scottish Government firmly shares the concerns about the profound impact that the increase in national insurance will have in Scotland, which is estimated to cost the adult care sector at least £85 million per year. We have outlined that to the United Kingdom Government and asked it to reimburse the national insurance increase for charities and social care providers in Scotland. We will continue to press the UK Government to do the right thing and reimburse that cost, and I ask all other parties in Parliament to do the same.

Marie McNair (Scottish National Party, Clydebank and Milngavie)

The increase to contributions has been described as “catastrophic” for Scotland’s social care sector. Will the First Minister join me in calling on Anas Sarwar’s Labour colleagues in Westminster to fully reimburse costs to the Scottish Government for Labour’s short-sighted plans to increase employer national insurance contributions in order to enable us to protect our social care services across the country?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

I certainly make that call. We have made that point to the United Kingdom Government, because Scotland’s care providers will face a significant increase in the cost of their operations as a consequence of that activity, and we depend on those individual organisations to contribute to the delivery of social care in Scotland.

The danger of the increase in employer national insurance contributions is that it is, essentially, ushering in austerity by the back door. Although there is a welcome increase in investment in public expenditure, there is also a commensurate increase in costs in the delivery of public services. I ask the United Kingdom Government to recognise that, so that we can take forward the effective investment in the care services on which our public depend.

Craig Hoy (Conservative, South Scotland)

Labour has let down the Scottish social care sector with its tax on jobs, but does the blame for the worsening crisis in care not rest with John Swinney just as much as it does with Keir Starmer? Since 2021, the care sector has been in limbo, waiting for the national care service, which has swallowed up £30 million that could have been spent to mitigate Labour’s national insurance hikes.

Will the First Minister now take this opportunity to confirm that the national care service is dead and buried, and allow ministers, councils and care providers to focus all their attention and money on the worsening crisis in Scotland’s social care?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

I assure Mr Hoy that there is no lack of focus in my Government on addressing the challenges around delayed discharge and social care. The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care and I spend a great deal of time on that question, and it has been a substantial issue for discussion with our local authority colleagues as we have undertaken the budget dialogue that I promised would be undertaken.

There are conclusions to be arrived at about the national care service but, fundamentally, what the national care service is designed to do—this is an important point that Mr Hoy cannot ignore—is address the fact that there is huge variation in the availability of social care services in different parts of the country. In some parts of the country, the availability is absolutely first class, and in other parts of the country it is poor. That is not good enough for the citizens of Scotland, and I intend to fix that.

Sharon Dowey (Conservative, South Scotland)

To ask the First Minister what the Scottish Government’s position is regarding any potential risk to the environment of excessive removal of peat during excavation projects. (S6F-03603)

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

Scotland’s peatlands are critical to mitigating and adapting to the climate and nature emergencies. They store carbon, support biodiversity, control flooding and improve river quality. Excavation of peat during development can increase emissions and damage nature. Our fourth national planning framework includes policies to protect carbon-rich soils, restore peatlands and minimise disturbance to soils from development.

Sharon Dowey (Conservative, South Scotland)

We pay grants for peatland restoration but, at the same time, allow peatland to be ripped up. Constituents at Barrhill in South Ayrshire are concerned about the significant removal of peat to make way for the construction of a battery storage facility. They are concerned about lorries making hundreds of journeys along dangerous and unsuitable roads to facilitate that. Currently, there are 50 lorry loads a day, but it has been suggested to Barrhill and Pinwherry villagers that that number would rise to 200 per day from January.

South Scotland residents are worried about the overindustrialisation of their part of the countryside. What guarantees can the First Minister give to people in South Ayrshire that their lives will not be adversely impacted by another controversial energy project?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

The development that Sharon Dowey raises with me is a live planning application, so I cannot make any specific comment about it. What I can say, however—[Interruption.] I am simply pointing out that I would be breaching the ministerial code if I commented on a live planning application. [Interruption.]

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Let us hear the First Minister.

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

Where development is proposed on peatland and carbon-rich soils or on priority peatland habitat, a detailed, site-specific assessment will be required to identify effects on peatland quality, habitats and emissions, so that mitigation can be built into project design and subsequent management. That is the obligation contained within national planning framework 4, and I would expect that to be applied by all planning authorities.

Emma Roddick (Scottish National Party, Highlands and Islands)

The Scottish Government has invested heavily in nature-based solutions to climate change, including by doubling the rate of peatland restoration over the past two years to reach record levels. Can the First Minister outline how yesterday’s Scottish budget will continue to support our efforts to reduce emissions and tackle the climate crisis?

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Please respond with reference to the substantive question, First Minister.

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

On the question of peatland restoration, which is implicit in the question that has been raised, the Government allocated additional resources to strengthen the work that is being undertaken to improve the quality of Scotland’s peatland resource. It is a huge asset for Scotland in dealing with the climate and nature emergencies, and I am glad that we are able to secure the necessary investment to support that development within the Scottish Government’s budget that was announced yesterday.

Audrey Nicoll (Scottish National Party, Aberdeen South and North Kincardine)

To ask the First Minister what progress is being made with the Scottish Government’s efforts to establish the country as a world leader in the green hydrogen sector. (S6F-03607)

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

Scotland has the potential to be a world-leading hydrogen nation, and the Scottish Government is committed to helping the Scottish hydrogen sector to develop and grow. The publication last week of Scotland’s first hydrogen export plan marks a milestone in the country’s journey to becoming a hydrogen-exporting nation. The plan sets out the key steps required to establish large-scale hydrogen production domestically, strengthen existing international partnerships and build new ones to enable exports and investment.

Audrey Nicoll (Scottish National Party, Aberdeen South and North Kincardine)

The Scottish Government has an international vision for the hydrogen economy in Scotland. Indeed, research from PwC confirmed that Scotland is leading the United Kingdom in the creation of green jobs. Given that the establishment of Scotland’s hydrogen sector has the potential to become a key driver of green growth and prosperity, can the First Minister say more about how the Scottish Government’s budget will further invest in a managed just transition and about the benefits that that will bring to Scotland?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

One of the fundamental points in the budget statement yesterday was the commitment to invest in Scotland’s journey to net zero and to achieve the objectives that Audrey Nicoll has talked about. The utilisation of ScotWind resources for long-term investment is a significant strength in the budget. We have successfully avoided the use of ScotWind resources to support day-to-day expenditure, which I know members of the Parliament wanted us to avoid. We are committed to taking forward the proposals in our green industrial strategy, which will help us to take forward investment in the hydrogen sector. That will only be supported, of course, if the Government’s budget passes and we are able to deploy that expenditure in the next financial year.

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

We move to open and constituency supplementaries.

Stuart McMillan (Scottish National Party, Greenock and Inverclyde)

The First Minister will be aware of my long-standing campaign to lower petrol pump prices in my constituency. He will also know that, in 2022, the Competition and Markets Authority launched an investigation into road fuel prices and concluded that action was need to “improve competition” and, ultimately, to stop fuel retailers from ripping off drivers. An update from the CMA last week indicates that

“While fuel prices have fallen since July”,

drivers are still paying over the odds for fuel, and that has a knock-on effect on other living costs such as food. Will the First Minister therefore join me today in urging the new United Kingdom Labour Government to speed up progress on the CMA’s recommendations, so that weak competition can be addressed and fuel retailers held to account?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

I am very much aware of the tenacious campaign that Stuart McMillan has led on the issue on behalf of his constituents. Fuel costs can make a significant contribution to the pressure that households and businesses wrestle with on an on-going basis. I welcome the UK Government’s plan to implement the CMA’s recommendations on the fuel price market, and I urge it is to speed up progress where possible. Given the CMA’s comments on current fuel prices, we urge the United Kingdom Government to use the CMA’s new fuel price monitoring function, which will commence in January next year, to scrutinise the market and take action where necessary to keep the prices that drivers pay at the lowest rate possible.

Douglas Ross (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

Last week marked two decades since Alistair Wilson was fatally shot on the doorstep of his family home in Nairn, while his wife Veronica and his two young sons were upstairs. Two decades on, his killer continues to evade justice. Throughout that time, Veronica and her family have shown great strength and dignity, but it has been very clear that they are now critical of elements of Police Scotland’s investigation, as well as of the chief constable, who repeatedly refuses to meet them. I have urged Chief Constable Farrell to reconsider her position. Although I acknowledge that the First Minister cannot comment on a live police investigation, will he meet Veronica and her family to listen to what they have endured for the past 20 years, and to what they continue to go through as they fight to see the killer of their husband and father finally brought to justice?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

As I have said to Mr Ross when he has raised the issue in the Parliament before, I have every sympathy with Mrs Wilson and her family for the unbearable loss that they have suffered, and the trauma that they have experienced because of the fact that the perpetrators of the attack have not been brought to justice. The framing of Mr Ross’s question recognises that it is a live police investigation and it is an operational matter for the chief constable to take forward. Subject to the caveat that Mr Ross had in his question, which is that I cannot engage in a live police investigation, I would be prepared to meet Mrs Wilson and her family to hear of their anguish. There will be limits to what I can do, but if it provides any assistance and support to the family that the First Minister is prepared to listen to their concerns, then I am prepared to meet them.

Martin Whitfield (Labour, South Scotland)

The First Minister will be aware of EDF Energy’s decision to extend the life of Torness nuclear power station until 2030, which will secure hundreds of jobs, boost the economy of East Lothian and South Scotland, and provide crucial support to Scotland’s energy grid. Torness has been Scotland’s most productive clean energy asset, cutting 100 million tonnes of CO 2 , reducing the risk of blackouts, and saving consumers up to £75 annually on their energy bills. Will the First Minister warmly welcome the extension?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

The Government has made it clear that we welcome stability in energy supplies. The developments that EDF has taken forward support that objective. Of course, we will have to make a transition to lower-cost energy products and prices, and that will be best secured through investment in renewable energy. I hope that GB energy will help us to speed up the approach that has been taken, particularly regarding the developments on the grid, which are the responsibility of the United Kingdom Government. I hope that the incoming United Kingdom Government is able to improve the performance in grid connection so that Scotland can realise its energy potential. If it does not improve that, we will not be able to realise the opportunities for low energy prices, which everyone wants in Scotland.

Willie Coffey (Scottish National Party, Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley)

I welcome the announcement by the Scottish National Party Government of £768 million for affordable housing, which will deliver 8,000 new homes for social rent, mid-market rent and low-cost home ownership, some of which will be in my constituency. I understand that the money will be available only if the Parliament votes for the budget. Does the First Minister agree that, if MSPs want to tackle the housing emergency, they need to back the budget that releases the money to do that?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

Mr Coffey is 100 per cent correct.

Members:

Oh!

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

I will say it again, as it went down so well. Mr Coffey is 100 per cent correct.

Let me share an—[ Interruption .] Let me share an observation with Parliament. If we want to spend the resources that the Government allocated yesterday on delivering outcomes such as 8,000 more affordable homes—I think that that constitutes an outcome in Mr Sarwar’s definition—Parliament has to be prepared to vote for the Government’s budget. The time for posturing will be over soon—[ Interruption .]

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Continue, First Minister.

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

Oh yes, the time for posturing will be over soon. The time to vote for the Government’s budget is coming, and if members want investment in housing, they have to vote for the Government’s budget.

Sandesh Gulhane (Conservative, Glasgow)

I declare an interest as a practising national health service general practitioner.

According to the latest data from the Office for National Statistics, female life expectancy in Glasgow remains the lowest in Britain, and seven of the 10 areas of the United Kingdom where it is lowest are in Scotland. Males do not fare much better. That all points to the Scottish National Party failing women—failing to protect safe spaces, failing to provide adequate housing for single mothers and failing to tackle women’s health inequalities. Is the First Minister concerned by those consistently woeful statistics? What is he going to do about it?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

I certainly am concerned about those issues. That is why the Government is taking forward a specific women’s health plan to address many of the issues that Dr Gulhane puts to me.

However, there is another important factor, and that is the persistence of poverty in our society. I appreciate Dr Gulhane’s commitment to the national health service, but his party presided over 14 years of punishing austerity, which has increased poverty levels in our country. To be fair, when the Labour Government left office in 2010, poverty rates were falling. They have gone up over the past 14 years—why? It is because of austerity from the Conservatives. Dr Gulhane has no strength to put those points to me. The Tories have inflicted misery and poverty on people in Scotland, and this Government is trying to repair the damage.

Rhoda Grant (Labour, Highlands and Islands)

Yesterday, we heard that Sutherland spaceport has been mothballed by Orbex. The spaceport was a positive development for the Sutherland community, bringing 40 jobs and economic benefits to a part of the Highlands that has suffered from depopulation. Orbex has received £14.6 million of public investment for the spaceport. Will the First Minister intervene to ensure that the development continues? If that is not possible, will he ensure that the public investment can be recouped and used to bring jobs and an economic boost to that part of the Highlands?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

I understand entirely the concern that Rhoda Grant puts to me. My understanding is that the decision has been arrived at in order to concentrate on the proposed spaceport development in Shetland.

Rhoda Grant raises two issues with me. The first is whether I will intervene to see whether there is an alternative; I give her an assurance that ministers will do so to see whether there is any other way in which the development can be taken forward.

Rhoda Grant also raises a completely reasonable question about the public investment that has been either spent or committed to the development, and how that stands. Contractual arrangements will have been put in place in the provision of grant funding. I will explore those issues and reply in writing to Rhoda Grant about what steps can be taken to address what I recognise to be a legitimate issue that she has raised with me today.

Clare Adamson (Scottish National Party, Motherwell and Wishaw)

Scotland’s cultural sector is the beating heart of our country, with considerable cross-policy impact, including in health and wellbeing. I warmly welcome the fact that the Government has committed a record increase of £34 million to the culture budget, which will facilitate the provision of multiyear funding, despite a single-year fixed budget from Westminster. Does the First Minister agree that, given that Labour’s ambition was for £25 million—£9 million less than is going to be delivered—it is incumbent on all Labour MPs to back the budget and support our creative industries?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

Clare Adamson makes a very reasonable point to Parliament today. I am very proud of many commitments in the budget, and I am particularly proud that the Government is fulfilling its commitments to the artistic and creative community. As I have said in my responses to First Minister’s questions before, it is a community that is precious to me. It is vital that Scotland has a vibrant arts and culture sector, and I am delighted that the Government has been able to make such a formidable financial contribution to the future of the sector.

Of course, Clare Adamson is also absolutely correct that that money will be able to be spent only if the Government budget passes. I remind Parliament that the Government does not have enough support—[ Interruption .]

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Members.

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

The Government does not have enough support on its own to pass the budget, so we are doing our best to reach agreement with other parties. I encourage other parties, especially the Labour Party, which is making a call for increased expenditure on arts and culture, to recognise that as being one of the commitments that can be supported by the delivery of the Government’s budget.

Ross Greer (Green, West Scotland)

The Scottish Greens certainly welcome progressive measures in the budget, including the acceptance of Green proposals for free ferry travel for young islanders and free bus travel for asylum seekers. However, peak rail fares, which were removed by the Greens last year, have returned, and the cap on the price of bus fares that we proposed is not there. Funding to make walking and cycling safer has been cut, and it does not appear that there is any funding for the integrated ticketing system that the Government announced in April. However, there is plenty for climate-wrecking motorway expansion. Does the First Minister recognise that far more is needed to make public transport cheaper, to make cycling safer and to reduce transport emissions to protect our planet?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

I recognise that there is a lot to be done to ensure that we all play our part in tackling the climate emergency, which is why I am pleased that the Government has increased the amount of climate-positive expenditure in the budget from the planned £4.7 billion to £4.9 billion.

In addition, resources have been introduced into the budget for the nature restoration fund. We have delivered on our commitment to implement free bus travel for asylum seekers and we have put in place £188 million for active and sustainable travel. We have delivered on other measures that the Scottish Green Party put to us, such as a real-terms uplift to local government spending, and the investment in housing programmes, at a total of £768 million.

Of course, I would love to do more. Mr Greer and I agree very much on the aspirations of ensuring that Scotland succeeds in our journey to net zero. However, I can allocate only the resources that the Government has at its disposal, and we have done that formidably to support action on the climate. I look forward to further dialogue to address the issues that Mr Greer has raised with me today.

Alexander Stewart (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

Across my region, a surge in the number of children who are experiencing domestic abuse is deeply concerning. Charities and third sector organisations are having to contend with record levels of children who are seeking support. What measures can the Scottish Government put in place to ensure that those children receive the support that they need, especially heading into the festive season?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

I acknowledge the importance of the issue that Mr Stewart raises with me. Domestic abuse is abhorrent. Mr Stewart represents the region of which my constituency is a part and, in Perth concert hall a week past Friday, I had the privilege of launching the 16 days of activism on gender-based violence against women and girls. It was an important event, and Mr Stewart will be familiar with it from his membership of Perth and Kinross Council.

We all have to take action. The Government has legislated to outlaw domestic abuse and, as a consequence, more cases are now being pursued through the courts. As I said in my response to Pam Gosal the other week, although there is an increase in the recording of domestic abuse, it is recognised that more women and girls are coming forward to report that horror, and those who are responsible should be brought to justice.

We all, particularly men, have to exercise leadership on this question. For that reason, I have decided that I will participate in this afternoon’s debate on violence against women and girls. I will close the debate for the Government in order to make it clear, from a leadership position, how intolerable I consider domestic abuse to be.

Kevin Stewart (Scottish National Party, Aberdeen Central)

I welcome the Scottish National Party’s Government’s decision to scrap the hated two-child cap, a policy that was started by the Tories and continued by Labour. I understand that Keir Starmer said this morning that the scrapping of the two-child cap is not a “silver bullet”. However, I believe that it is a major step in tackling child poverty. Does the First Minister share my view that it is time for Keir Starmer to follow the principled lead that the Scottish Government has taken and scrap the cap? What will the First Minister do to persuade the Prime Minister to see sense on the issue?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

The Scottish Government has announced its proposals to end the heinous two-child limit that is causing misery for children and families in Scotland. We will take that action because the United Kingdom Labour Government has, to date, failed to do so.

I am grateful for the support of a range of organisations that welcomed the steps that were announced by the finance secretary yesterday. I will certainly use every opportunity that I have to persuade the Prime Minister to take similar action to relieve the burden of this particularly pernicious part of the welfare system and to stop it inflicting poverty on children and families in the United Kingdom.

Paul Sweeney (Labour, Glasgow)

The locum psychiatrist survey, which was published by the Royal College of Psychiatrists, found that the number of whole-time equivalent general psychiatrists has not changed in a decade. That stagnation has contributed to a loss of permanent staff, jeopardised patient treatment and safety, and led to millions of pounds being excessively spent on locum psychiatrist rates. Does the First Minister accept that the problem needs sustained investment, not short-term fixes, not in-year budget raids and certainly not a £20 million cut to the mental health services budget?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

There is no such thing in relation to the mental health budget. The Government is investing substantively in mental health services to improve performance, and we are already seeing significant improvements in waiting times in the child and adolescent mental health services system. I agree with Mr Sweeney about the importance of sustained investment. That is what the Government is committed to and that is what the Government will deliver.

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

That concludes First Minister’s question time. There will be a short suspension to allow those leaving the chamber and the gallery to do so.

Dying in Poverty in Scotland 2024

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

I ask people who are leaving the public gallery to do so as quickly and quietly as possible as we resume business.

Our next item of business is a members’ business debate on motion S6M-15411, in the name of Paul Sweeney, on the publication of the Marie Curie report “Dying in Poverty in Scotland 2024”. The debate will be concluded without any questions being put. I invite members who wish to participate to press their request-to-speak buttons.

Motion debated,

That the Parliament welcomes the publication of the Marie Curie report, Dying in Poverty in Scotland 2024; understands that the report is taken from research carried out by Marie Curie and Loughborough University; notes that the report has found that one in four working age people and one in six pension age people in Scotland face poverty at the end of life; understands that terminal illness exacerbates existing inequality; notes the report’s findings that symptoms of terminal illness can result in higher energy costs, costs for housing adaptations and force people to leave the labour market and rely on social security support; considers that these challenges are not confined to the dying person, but also affect family and unpaid carers who, it believes, are too often left to carry out the bulk of caring duties due to what it sees as inadequate support; notes the belief that more must be done to target support to those who are facing dying, death and bereavement, and further notes the calls for governments to consider the report and work with Marie Curie to prevent people in Scotland, including those in the Glasgow region, from dying in poverty.

Paul Sweeney (Labour, Glasgow)

I extend my sincere thanks to colleagues across the chamber who supported the motion for members’ business and helped to secure valuable time for the Parliament to consider what is a crucial new piece of research by Marie Curie.

The “Dying in Poverty in Scotland 2024” report, which is based on research that Marie Curie and Loughborough University carried out on the extent of end-of-life poverty in Scotland, lays bare the prevalence of deaths in poverty in Scotland, with 10,400 people dying in poverty, which equates to one in four working-age people and one in six pensioners, with working-age people with dependent children being most at risk of end-of-life poverty.

The Parliament often discusses the plight of health inequalities—and rightly so—but progress in reducing the disparity in outcomes across health and social care is stagnant and, sadly, the report further highlights that reality on multiple fronts. Indeed, it states that

“more working-age people of a minoritised ethnicity die in poverty in their last year of life, including 47 per cent of Black people”

compared to 25 per cent of white people, and that women are overall more likely to die in poverty than men.

In recent weeks, debate around assisted dying has often referenced the notion of dignity in dying. However, looking at the report and considering the stark figures that I have just mentioned, I think that we can all agree that a dignified death is not a guarantee for many people approaching the end of their lives.

Members might be familiar with an earlier work by Marie Curie and the University of Glasgow—the dying in the margins exhibition, which was shown in the Parliament building last year and documented the impact of poverty on the end-of-life experience of people with a terminal illness. The research in that exhibition captured the reality of the home environment and the barriers that participants experienced as they approached the end of their lives in poverty.

One example that has stayed with me is that of a patient who lived in a housing association home that no longer met their accessibility needs as they got more poorly and infirm. As the tenant was approaching the end of his life, the housing association was not willing to make the necessary investment in adjustments to make the home more suitable and comfortable. That meant that the gentleman could not die as he wanted—in his own home, in a familiar setting—but ended his life in hospital. Any of us with a loved one in that situation would be deeply distressed by such a situation.

It is not good enough. It is important that people at the end of their lives have agency, choice and control, but research for the dying in the margins exhibition in 2023 and the “Dying in Poverty in Scotland 2024” report found that that is not the reality for too many people in Scotland—they do not have that agency, choice and control.

The report recommends that the Scottish Government consider specific support for terminally ill people with dependent children under 16, as well as support for all terminally ill people with energy costs. I would be grateful if the Minister for Public Health and Women’s Health could set out in her remarks what assessment the Government has made of the report and what steps it will take to realise those recommendations. I note that the Consumer Scotland report that was published last week also recommended targeted financial support for those who are terminally ill.

I have now proudly brought two debates to the Parliament relating to the work of Marie Curie. That is for two reasons. First, I have been familiar with its exceptional work from a young age, since I helped to fundraise for the new hospice in the grounds of the Stobhill hospital when I was a pupil at nearby Turnbull high school more than 17 years ago. Secondly, I was fortunate to visit the new hospice at Stobhill last year and to meet several constituents who were nearing the end of their lives. Their experiences and stories have had a lasting impact on me.

One patient comes to mind, whose story I have previously shared in the Parliament. She lived in Bridgeton, which is a deprived area of Glasgow, and was only in her early forties. She approached her general practitioner multiple times to complain of pain that she thought was tonsillitis but was dismissed and repeatedly sent home with painkillers. She had a difficult upbringing and a fairly chaotic lifestyle but felt that she was getting her life back on track when she was struck down by the chronic condition for which she was struggling to get support.

By the time that she was listened to, referred on and diagnosed with neck cancer, it was terminal and too late to treat. She spoke to me through a tube in her throat, in the final stages of her life, and relayed to me her distress at being robbed of her future. She had two young children—it was a very difficult conversation to have with a young mother in that situation. Having overcome so much adversity, she was then robbed of her life at what she felt was a turning point. We talk about the Glasgow effect and poverty and inequality, but it sometimes hits you really starkly, and that was certainly a very moving experience for me.

Martin Whitfield (Labour, South Scotland)

Paul Sweeney has made a very powerful contribution on what is a massively important issue. Is it not right that society should reflect on how it cares for those at the very start of life—babies and children—but also for those at the end of life? The member has adequately shown that we are not addressing that sufficiently and in the right way at this time and in this place.

Paul Sweeney (Labour, Glasgow)

I thank my friend for making that great observation. What struck me from the experience of the discussion with that lady, who sadly passed away just the day after I visited, is that from the very early stages of someone’s life they are doomed in many ways to an early death—a premature death. That is the nature of inequality in Scotland today. The social determinants of health at the very early stages of infancy and childhood are critical. We need to understand that if we are to truly solve the ingrained issues of inequality in our society.

Monica Lennon (Labour, Central Scotland)

I am grateful to my colleague Paul Sweeney for securing this important debate. I pay tribute to him for all his support for Marie Curie. Recently, 2,500 people in Central Scotland have emailed me to stand up for hospice care, and I know that colleagues have had many similar emails. Does he share those people’s fear and mine that, if the Scottish Government does not do more to fund and support our amazing hospices, it will be the poorest people in Scotland who suffer the most?

Paul Sweeney (Labour, Glasgow)

I completely agree with my colleague. We often underestimate that issue, because the dead have no agency. People in the final stage of their life are just dealing with the immediate trauma and effects of that, so their capacity to reflect and advocate is limited. Monica Lennon makes an important point in that respect, which is why the studies that I have mentioned are so critical. It is also critical that we get hospice care right. When I visited the Prince and Princess of Wales hospice, a third of its beds were unusable because of a lack of nursing staff, due to the differentials in national health service pay rates.

Fergus Ewing (Scottish National Party, Inverness and Nairn)

I commend Mr Sweeney on his excellent speech and agree with the points that he makes. Does he agree that we could organise the NHS much better, and that it could support Marie Curie, Macmillan Cancer Support nurses and hospices much more effectively and practically, at much less expense and far quicker for those who require end-of-life care? That can be done without necessarily increasing the overall amount of money that is provided, by getting the public sector to work more effectively with those marvellous charitable institutions in Scotland.

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

Please begin winding up, Mr Sweeney.

Paul Sweeney (Labour, Glasgow)

I completely agree with Mr Ewing’s observation—that is absolutely critical. It is a universal truth that we will all face the end of our lives at some point, and most of us will rely on palliative care or hospice care of some kind. Therefore, it is important that we better integrate that. That is the essence of what was aspired to in the national care service, and we should consider how we can better do that. In doing so, we would release capacity in acute hospitals and thus create a virtuous cycle of efficient healthcare expenditure.

The Marie Curie report rightly references the practical financial difficulties that terminally ill people in poverty face but, as evidenced by the constituent who I spoke about, regrettably, that group of people often have less agency and have to advocate more and push harder for answers than their less deprived counterparts. For my constituent and others in Scotland like her, I commend the motion in my name.

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

Thank you Mr Sweeney. We move to the open debate. There is quite a bit of interest. I am intending to get everybody in, but I am also conscious that we begin afternoon business at 2 pm, so we will need to leave enough time for the chamber to be prepared for that.

Elena Whitham (Scottish National Party, Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley)

I thank Paul Sweeney for bringing this hugely important report to the attention of the chamber. I also extend my sincere thanks to Marie Curie and Loughborough University for researching this urgent issue and bringing the reality faced by those dying in poverty to our attention. I commend him for the way in which he narrated the experiences of his constituent—none of us can fail to be touched by what he put to us.

We rightly spend a lot of our energy and resources in the Parliament combating the scourge of child poverty and doing all that we can to ensure that, from the very beginning of life, this nation nurtures our youngest. Despite all the challenges, we are making good progress in that regard.

However, what we do not talk enough about in the Parliament, in our communities and in our homes is dying. As a nation, we find it too difficult, too awkward and too upsetting to speak to one another about the reality of death, dying and terminal illness.

In addition, when we are creating policies and strategies to eradicate poverty, what we do not think about enough in the Parliament is how poverty manifests itself for people who have a terminal illness and their families. No one who is dealing with a terminal prognosis should be worrying about ensuring that they are warm enough, can run any specialist equipment that they rely on and have enough money to get the nutrition that they need to be as well as they can be.

Dying from a terminal illness will always be the most difficult thing that we might face as human beings, and Paul Sweeney outlined how that affected that young mum. It is an existential crisis. However, as a nation, we cannot thole the reality that is faced by too many who simply do not have enough money to live their last moments in comfort and, instead, live in cold surroundings with mounting debt and ever-increasing worry about what they are leaving behind for their loved ones. That anxiety alone is a heavy burden to bear.

In East Ayrshire, which forms part of my Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley constituency, 28 per cent of people with a terminal illness die in end-of-life poverty and 23 per cent die in fuel poverty. Far too many of my constituents in rural areas who are reliant on an oil heating system face the most horrendous fuel poverty when dying.

Finlay Carson (Conservative, Galloway and West Dumfries)

Will Elena Whitham give way?

Elena Whitham (Scottish National Party, Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley)

Yes, in two seconds.

Rates of fuel poverty when dying are also higher for people in older socially rented homes.

Finlay Carson (Conservative, Galloway and West Dumfries)

Will Elena Whitham reflect on the comments that we have heard about the lack of a budget for aids and adaptations? For example, a housing association in my area needed £3 million but only got £700,000. Although there is an increase in the budget for that this year, it still falls way short of what is needed. Do you share my disappointment that the Government is not stepping up to the mark and delivering the funds that are needed?

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

Please speak through the chair.

Elena Whitham (Scottish National Party, Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley)

I recognise the issue that Finlay Carson has put to me. I have made representations to the Government on that on several occasions, and have gone back and forth between the health and social care partnership and registered social landlords. I absolutely get the point that Finlay Carson raises, and I will continue to challenge the issue.

Paul Sweeney set out that 10,400 people die in poverty in Scotland—there has been an increase of 27 per cent from 2019. As we have heard, the figure is even higher—one in four—for people who are of working age. In Scotland, one in five people die in fuel poverty in their last year of life.

The report identified particular groups that are at risk of dying in poverty, including working-age parents with dependent children, women and people from minoritised backgrounds. That is why collecting and collating disaggregated data is essential in understanding the issues across groups. As Paul Sweeney outlined, 25 per cent of those from a white ethnicity die in poverty when they face a terminal illness, but a staggering 47 per cent from a black background with a terminal illness die in poverty. We need to understand all the drivers behind that so that we can make coherent policy.

There are steps that the Scottish Government can take that will make an impact, and I ask the minister to reflect on them. We should extend the eligibility for the Scottish child payment to parents living with a terminal illness with dependent children under 16 on the presentation of a benefits assessment under special rules in Scotland—BASRIS—form that confirms that they are eligible under the special rules on terminal illness situations. We should provide extra financial support for terminally ill people with their energy bills, which could include extending eligibility for the winter heating payment to all terminally ill people and reinvesting in the fuel insecurity fund. We should bring forward a minimum income guarantee and work even harder towards eradicating the gender pay gap, which has an impact on women who are dying in poverty.

We urgently need a social tariff for energy to prevent fuel poverty at the end of life, and I urge the United Kingdom and Scottish Governments to make that a reality.

I also support the calls for the UK Government to unlock pensions for people who are close to pension age who have a terminal diagnosis. For those who have not paid enough national insurance contributions at that point, the Government should ensure that they have a pension-level payment. That feels like the right thing to do.

Elizabeth Smith (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

I say well done to Paul Sweeney, not only for bringing the debate to Parliament but for the speech that he delivered, which was very moving.

Paul Sweeney was quite right to say that Marie Curie’s “Dying in Poverty in Scotland 2024” report is a crucial piece of research, and it is incumbent on all of us—as Elena Whitham rightly spelled out—to take notice of it. The issue is particularly important and topical at the moment, given the assisted dying debates that are on-going north and south of the border. Those debates have raised critical issues in relation not only to that particular ethical decision that we have to make, but to how compassionate our palliative care system is. For that reason alone, I find those debates incredibly interesting. They are also extremely important, because they raise the whole issue of palliative care.

I am glad that it is clear from what we have heard in recent weeks that there is cross-party agreement on how significant this issue is. There is clear acknowledgement that the report’s findings paint a disturbing picture of the lack of support that is available to some of the most disadvantaged in our society in their final moments of terminal illness.

The scale of the numbers is stark. The report found that, in parts of the Mid Scotland and Fife region, around one in five people died in end-of-life poverty. The fact that such a large proportion of people are not receiving support is a matter of concern to us all. I pay tribute to Fergus Ewing, who made an important point about how we might better address that. The report goes into considerable detail—forensic detail, in fact—on the wide variations between different demographic groups. The proportion of single parents of working age who die in end-of-life poverty is as high as four in 10.

As we are all aware, palliative care is predominantly administered by the charitable sector. I pay tribute to the work of the charities Marie Curie and Cancer Card, which provide such a comprehensive service that is so admired by the public to so many people in giving them peace of mind at the end of their lives.

Fergus Ewing (Scottish National Party, Inverness and Nairn)

I thoroughly endorse what Liz Smith has said, and I appreciate the way in which she has said it. This is one of the most pressing problems in Scotland right now. Is she aware that, in Highland, one in three acute hospital beds at Raigmore hospital are believed to be occupied by people at the end of life? Highland Hospice believes that at least 40 per cent of those people could receive better care where they wish to be cared for—in their own homes, in the community. Frankly, Raigmore, which provides an excellent service to those who need to be fixed, is in danger of becoming a care home rather than an acute hospital.

Elizabeth Smith (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

I was aware of that statistic, but only because Mr Ewing raised the issue earlier this week when I was in the chamber. I was taken aback by that statistic, because it is very serious. It is one that should make us think very carefully about the way forward. As Mr Ewing has rightly pointed out, we cannot have that circumstance, because hospitals have to get on with so many other things. We must address the issue by ensuring that people who are at the end of their lives get better care than that which it is possible for them to get in hospitals. I am not taking anything away from the care that is provided in hospitals, but I think that we can do things better.

The Finance and Public Administration Committee, of which I am a member, has been looking closely at the economic consequences of Scotland’s ageing population, but the report that we are discussing today highlights the social challenges of the current situation. I pay tribute to my colleague Miles Briggs, who, with his proposed member’s bill on a right to palliative care, is trying to address a lot of the questions that Mr Sweeney flagged up. It is essential that we do something about that issue, and I give my full support to Miles Briggs. We must do this better. I am sure that the Deputy Presiding Officer, of all people, is conscious of that, as the member who introduced the Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill.

I thank both Paul Sweeney and you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I might not always agree on some aspects of the debate, but I think that you have done a wonderful job in bringing that bill to Parliament.

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

Thank you very much, Ms Smith.

Carol Mochan (Labour, South Scotland)

I thank my party colleague Paul Sweeney for bringing this important debate to the chamber and everyone at Marie Curie and its partners for producing their vital report.

Everyone deserves as pain-free and peaceful a death as possible, surrounded by those who love them, in a place that comforts them and where they can make choices. However, as with so many things across the course of our lives, the process of death is influenced by the poverty and inequality experienced by so many.

That poverty is the root of the injustice that permeates our society and that is sustained by so many from cradle to grave. I simply cannot accept that, which is what has driven me to speak in today’s debate and in others on the subject. We must do more to end the situation in which so many people have so little while a few have so much. With the inequalities surrounding death so prominent in our national debate, there has never been a better time for the report, or for this debate.

At every stage of a person’s life, including death, poverty is an anchor on their ability to live as others do. I have met constituents who spend much of their final years of life worrying about how they can afford to leave their families behind or even about whether they can afford the care required to sustain a moderate quality of life until the end. The truth is that some in our society are worried about avoiding paying tax on second homes that they want to pass on to their children while others are worried about whether they can afford even the cost of a funeral. That is not a just or fair society.

According to the report, 17 per cent of those who died in 2023 in my home area of East Ayrshire did so in poverty, with 23 per cent dying in fuel poverty. Figures vary across my South Scotland region, but are not drastically different, which means that almost one in five people are struggling to heat their home or to put food on their table. Those people are often aware that, sadly, they are soon to pass. Can members imagine the mental and physical strain that that sort of pressure puts on a person and on their family? I think that we can all agree that nothing could be worse.

We have heard today that simple things, such as needing to make adaptations to a house, can be a luxury for people who are unsure if they can even afford to feed their own family. That is simply unacceptable. I will be clear: I believe that we need not have an economy that works only for the rich; rather, we should have one that ensures that everyone in society has the means to live and die in dignity.

We live in one of the richest countries in the world, but, in 2024, many among us experience constant poverty. From the cradle to the grave, that is all that they have known or will ever know. We must all accept that truth, although it is as unacceptable today as it was many decades ago when the welfare state was transformed by serious Government intervention. I believe that we require a similar revolution in practice and in thinking to address the problems that I, and many others in the chamber, have highlighted today. I call on everyone to think of that and I call on the Scottish Government to respond to the points raised by my colleague Paul Sweeney and others. We must look to ensure that we eradicate poverty in this country, which, as I stated, is one of the richest in the world.

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

I call Bob Doris, who is joining us remotely. [Interruption.] I am sorry, Mr Doris, but your microphone does not appear to be working. Can you start again? [ Interruption .] I am afraid that we still cannot hear you.

I will call Rhoda Grant first while we sort out the issue. We will try to come back to you, Mr Doris.

Rhoda Grant (Labour, Highlands and Islands)

I, too, thank Paul Sweeney for securing this debate on palliative care. I commend Marie Curie for its report “Dying in Poverty in Scotland 2024”, which shines a light on the very difficult situations that many people find themselves in at the end of life. People who are facing terminal illness often lose their incomes and move on to benefits. That can be difficult when someone is facing the end of life, and more so if English is not their first language.

There are many excellent support services out there that help people—Marie Curie, Macmillan Cancer Support and the like—and there are also small local charities that provide support. An example is Western Isles Cancer Care Initiative. WICCI advocates for all people with cancer—something that is even more important for those with a terminal diagnosis—provides small grants and helps people to access support. However, not everyone is lucky enough to be able to access such excellent services.

For people who live in the Highlands and Islands, fuel poverty is also an issue. When people are unwell, they need to be warm, and if there are concerns about the cost of heating that simply adds to the stress. We can only imagine the stress of dying. We will all face it, but it is difficult to imagine. I am sure that we have all faced the stress of losing someone close to us—worrying about their wellbeing and trying to make sure that their last precious days are comfortable and free from worry and that they can live them well. If financial constraints prevent families from ensuring a good death, that adds to their distress and the grief that they have to deal with.

Hospices are crying out for funding, and hospice-at-home services are desperately needed. Most people want to die at home, yet 70 per cent of us will end up in hospital towards the end of our lives, and many who go to hospital will die there because of a lack of hospice care in the community. Such people make up much of the delayed discharge figures, as we have heard. In Highland, £45 million is spent yearly on end-of-life care in hospital, while only just over £11 million is spent on end-of-life care elsewhere. I support Miles Briggs’s proposed member’s bill to improve end-of-life care in Scotland.

Paul Sweeney (Labour, Glasgow)

I thank my friend for giving way. She made a powerful point about the numbers of people who are dying in hospital at the end of their lives. The position is particularly egregious in rural settings. When I recently had the opportunity to visit Skye with the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, a number of people there expressed their fear that they would end their lives potentially hundreds of miles from home and far removed from their friends and family, with all the stress that that might place on their relatives who would try to visit them in their final days. Does my friend recognise that the problem is particularly egregious in rural and remote settings that are further afield than the central belt?

Rhoda Grant (Labour, Highlands and Islands)

Yes, indeed. That is a common situation in the Highlands and Islands, where it is very difficult for families who want to spend time with loved ones.

Highland Hospice knows that and it is leading the charge in Highland. It has formed partnerships with services and the third sector and delivered a 24/7 helpline for people with palliative end-of-life care needs. That alone has saved NHS Highland £2.3 million, while providing support for 415 people in just six months. Kenny Steele, who is the chief executive officer at Highland Hospice, says that delivering better planned and co-ordinated care towards the end of life will result in less unscheduled care in hospital and deliver better value and high-quality care.

However, we need the statutory services to be on board to make sure that that model works. It saves money but, most important, it allows families to enrich the final days of their loved ones, who can live their lives to the end. When days are few, life is precious.

Fergus Ewing (Scottish National Party, Inverness and Nairn)

Will the member take an intervention?

Rhoda Grant (Labour, Highlands and Islands)

I will.

Annabelle Ewing (Scottish National Party, Cowdenbeath)

Please be very brief, Mr Ewing.

Fergus Ewing (Scottish National Party, Inverness and Nairn)

Having met Kenny Steele recently, does Rhoda Grant agree that, although the Government works with all hospices throughout the country, Highland Hospice’s funding from the Government amounts to only 25 per cent—£2 million—of its £8 million running costs, whereas many other hospices are fully funded?

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

I ask Rhoda Grant to conclude.

Rhoda Grant (Labour, Highlands and Islands)

I agree that that is a huge problem for Highland Hospice. I commend its fundraising effort and the communities that support it, but things should not be that way, and I hope that they will not be in the future if statutory services help the hospice.

Wasting days in hospital really helps nobody, and especially not those who are in their final moments.

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

I am going to give Mr Doris a little more time to get the audio sorted out. I call Miles Briggs.

Miles Briggs (Conservative, Lothian)

Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. My mic is working, which is good.

I pay tribute to Paul Sweeney for bringing the debate to the chamber. I also pay tribute to Marie Curie for the amazing work that it does in all our communities to support people who are at the end of life and for the research partnership that it has developed with Loughborough University. We know the stark figures that that work has presented. It suggests that, in my region, 20 per cent of working-age people with a terminal illness are dying in fuel poverty.

The statistics in the report are human beings—they are people who are dying. We need to remember that when we throw the statistics around in the chamber. However, we can do something about it. That is why I want to introduce a right to palliative care bill, which a number of members have mentioned.

I launched the consultation on my proposals back in March and received substantial feedback from many organisations and very much so from the hospice sector. The national health service, which was established some 76 years ago, and the founding principle of that service—providing care from the cradle to the grave—underpin the social fabric of our society. However, a number of members, including Fergus Ewing, have highlighted the unrecognised reality that palliative and end-of-life care are predominantly provided by the charitable sector. That is right in many cases, because it provides the quality of care and the wraparound care for family and friends that we want.

We do not have a legal right to palliative care; that does not currently exist. Under current contracts, GPs are obliged to support patients with generalist palliative care. However, far too many patients do not receive such care and do not have their needs met. As we all know, GP resources are completely overstretched. The integration of health and social care, which the Parliament passed legislation on, has not corrected that and has not delivered the change that we all want. Marie Curie’s dying in the margins research brings to light the financial hardship that many people from the most deprived communities in our country face, especially those who face terminal illness.

My proposed bill would establish a legal right to palliative care, but we also need to have conversations about wraparound support. Debates are progressing through Parliament on the national care service. The proposed human rights bill could have been an opportunity to take forward some such debates. The Housing (Scotland) Bill, which is before the Parliament, provides that opportunity, too. However, we need to look towards a better opportunity to solve some of those problems and find solutions that the Government, business and industry can be part of.

I mentioned business and industry. Later today, I will meet Alasdair Allan, the Acting Minister for Climate Action, alongside the fuel poverty campaigner Carolynne Hunter, to discuss progress on the development, along with industry, of a social tariff. The First Minister announced that the Scottish Government is looking to take that forward. I hope that it can be progressed UK-wide and that industry will be part of ensuring that that happens. We would all welcome that, because it is beyond time that a social tariff was developed, and it could present a solution for many individuals in our country.

In its briefing ahead of the debate, Marie Curie made a number of positive suggestions about how terminally ill people could be directly supported with their energy bills. The suggestions included extending eligibility for the winter heating payment to terminally ill people and reinvesting in the fuel insecurity fund. Together, the UK and Scottish Governments can take forward opportunities for us to find solutions that can turn the situation around.

No one should die in fuel poverty—no one in the chamber has raised any question about that—but we need to deliver workable solutions. Early intervention is one of the keys. Many people are not aware of the support that is available and do not seek it when they are at their lowest ebb and are dying. We need to ensure that our systems, especially our welfare systems, can work to change that.

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

I call Bob Doris, to be followed by Richard Leonard. Mr Doris, you have around four minutes.

Even with the headset off, Mr Doris, I am afraid that we cannot hear you. We will try to rectify that. I will go to Richard Leonard and, in around four minutes, we will come back to you.

Richard Leonard (Labour, Central Scotland)

I thank Paul Sweeney for leading the debate.

The figures that have been produced and the human face of what they mean, as described by Marie Curie in the report, are startling. In Falkirk, one in seven people dies in poverty, in North Lanarkshire it is one in six, and they are not just dying in poverty—they are dying of poverty.

There are other dimensions, too. If a person living in Scotland is black, Asian or from a minority ethnic background, they are twice as likely to die poor than they are if they are white. Although we learned yesterday that men living in Glasgow no longer have the lowest life expectancy in the UK, Scotland still has the lowest life expectancy of all the UK nations.

The gap between the life expectancy of the richest and the poorest is wide, and it gets wider every year. According to the National Records of Scotland, women living in the most-deprived areas are, on average, expected to live 25 fewer years in good health than those in the least-deprived areas. For men, it is 26 years. That is a public health issue. It is also a class issue. It is a political issue.

We are witnessing an immiseration of the poor and rising indebtedness, but it is not just grinding poverty—it is rampant inequality. Spiralling wealth, affluence and greed have come together with the plague of impoverishment.

Finlay Carson (Conservative, Galloway and West Dumfries)

Does Richard Leonard recognise the huge inequalities that exist in rural Scotland? In Dumfries and Galloway, there is no hospice. We have just seen the integration joint board decide to close beds in our cottage hospitals, which means that people who need care at the end of life often have no choice but to stay in an acute hospital, where the facilities are far from adequate.

Richard Leonard (Labour, Central Scotland)

I am happy to agree with the Conservative member on the importance of inequality in looking at all those issues.

We hear the voices of the rich and the wealthy in the Parliament, whether they are the landlord or the landowner, and we hear the voices of financial capital and the banker of the corporation and the super-rich, but we hear far too rarely the voices of the disinherited and the dispossessed—those who are bearing the brunt of this immoral injustice.

Poverty is not solely a lack of wealth: it comes with a self-reinforcing lack of power. We know that poverty, low pay, unemployment, poor housing and run-down public services invariably go together, and that hopelessness and powerlessness breed a crisis of confidence that leads to demoralisation, then to alienation and then to acquiescence. As Steve Biko attested:

“The most potent weapon in the hands of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed.”

If we want people to realise all their potential, and not to spend their entire lives—still less their dying days—imprisoned in poverty, and if we want people to be freed from this and to be literate, passionate and fulfilled in all their diversity, then it is clear that we need radical social change.

That change cannot be left to the market and the nostrums of neoliberal economics, which simply fuel inequality. We cannot leave it to short-term mitigations, ameliorations or palliatives. To my own party, I say in all honesty that neither can we leave it to modest reform, to more efficient economic management or to improved administration of the state. It was John Smith who said that the job of the Labour Party was to

“persuade millions of the strength of our vision, the relevance of our policies and the urgency of our demand for change”.

That is the radical tradition that all of us who want to change the outcomes that are set out in the report must return to; it is a “slow revolution”, in Danny Dorling’s words, and a “long revolution”, perhaps, in the words of Raymond Williams, but a revolution nonetheless.

Too many people are dying in poverty and too many are living and dying in fear, so we must use all the powers that we have—parliamentary and extra-parliamentary—to bring about change. That is our job—to lift people’s horizons out of the hardship of the present by putting forward a vision of the better life, the better death and the better society.

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

I call Bob Doris again.

Bob Doris (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn)

I very much hope that you can hear me, Presiding Officer.

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

Third time lucky, Mr Doris—on you go.

Bob Doris (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn)

Thank you for your patience.

As the convener of the Scottish Parliament cross-party group on palliative care, I welcome the opportunity to discuss once more the issues that relate to tackling poverty for people with terminal conditions and those who are approaching the end of life, as well as their families and carers.

I thank Paul Sweeney for securing the debate, which allows us to consider the thoughtful and, frankly, the rightly fundamentally challenging Marie Curie report, “Dying in Poverty in Scotland 2024”. That challenge provides an imperative for the UK Labour Government and the SNP Scottish Government to work together. No one should be living in poverty, let alone as they approach the end of life. The dying in the margins study by Marie Curie set out the unvarnished reality of living in poverty with a terminal illness. We must all work together to do more.

At the heart of the recommendations from Marie Curie is a direct challenge to the UK Government to use the UK benefits system to tackle poverty at its source by allowing those of working age who have less than 12 months to live to access their state pension if they have sufficient national insurance contributions. The recommendation also says that those who do not have sufficient contributions should be able to access pension credit. I am inclined to support that call and would welcome a meeting with Marie Curie to see how we can progress that, and ask the UK Government to consider the recommendation. I am not suggesting that it will be easy—it will present complexities and financial challenges—but we must try.

A key recommendation for the Scottish Government is to consider whether to enshrine in law an explicit right to palliative care. Mr Briggs, who we have heard from in the debate, is consulting on a member’s bill on that, and I wish him well with it. I have stated in the chamber that I support that right, and I have said that we must not only enshrine that right in law but ensure that it can be exercised in an effective, equitable and consistent way. That does not necessarily require legislation, because we already have in Scotland a palliative care system with some wonderful practice. However, the system is under pressure, it needs to be expanded and it requires innovation. Enshrining that right in law can drive some of that change.

The Scottish Government is consulting on a new draft palliative care strategy. Getting the strategy and future strategies right is key, as is how integration joint boards and others fund, finance and commission services. That sits at the heart of the exercise of any right. Yes—the sector needs more financial support, but the cross-party group also heard that innovation, service redesign and a meaningful partnership with the third sector can improve service and save money.

The additional £4 million for hospices that was announced in Scotland’s budget yesterday will help, as will the Scottish Government’s guarantee that future NHS agenda for change pay awards in Scotland will trigger commensurate uplifts to fund the required pay increases in hospices. I have been calling consistently for that for some time—it will make a real difference. It would also make a real difference to lift the £2.5 million bombshell that UK national insurance increases will inflict on the sector.

I am also attracted to the recommendations to extend the Scottish child payment and winter heating payments to families or individuals in cases where someone is terminally ill, perhaps within the last year of life. That is similar to the calls on the UK Government in relation to pensions. Again, I would welcome a meeting with Marie Curie to discuss that further. I would also welcome a meeting with the minister, along with Marie Curie, to discuss not only those proposals but the on-going challenges that hospices face.

I again thank Paul Sweeney for bringing the debate to the chamber.

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

Thank you for persevering, Mr Doris.

I call the Minister for Public Health and Women’s Health, Jenni Minto.

Jenni Minto (Scottish National Party, Argyll and Bute)

I extend my thanks to Paul Sweeney for bringing this incredibly important and relevant motion to Parliament. The dying in the margins exhibition and research have remained with me, as they have with him, and I reference them very often in my role.

I put on the record my heartfelt thanks to every member of Marie Curie staff and every volunteer across Scotland for everything that they do, day in, day out, to support people who are terminally ill, their families and loved ones. There will be few—if any—in the chamber whose lives have not been touched at some point and in some way by the issues that Marie Curie does such remarkable work to tackle. It is right that we all acknowledge that work, and I thank all members for their contributions.

Elena Whitham mentioned the importance of talking about the reality of death and dying. I agree whole-heartedly with her point, and I do that as a constituency MSP whenever I get the opportunity.

Liz Smith, as always, made a thoughtful and practical contribution. I recognise a lot of the points that she raised.

Carol Mochan, your description of poverty being an anchor was resounding and I thank you for that. I will remind myself of that, because you are right that it is the people who are impacted, and it is the people we need to think about. I cannot disagree with any of the sentiments that you or your colleague Richard Leonard expressed in your contributions.

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

Please speak through the chair, minister.

Jenni Minto (Scottish National Party, Argyll and Bute)

My apologies, Presiding Officer.

As Miles Briggs said, raising awareness of the issue is so important.

Bob Doris talked about the actions proposed in the Marie Curie report on social tariffs to protect people who are living with terminal illness from spiralling energy bills and to address recent real-terms cuts and freezes in working-age benefits. I note the atmosphere in the chamber and would very much like to work with members across the chamber to have a discussion to see how we can influence the choices and decisions of the UK Government.

The Scottish Government is assessing the report and looking at where we can make changes. I will touch first on the social tariff mechanism. We have repeatedly called on the UK Government to introduce a social tariff, and we have been working with the current UK Government on that. We have convened a working group made up of energy suppliers and consumer organisations, chaired by my colleague Dr Allan, to establish how a social tariff could operate. We have had a positive meeting with the UK Government and we will share the outputs of that. That is an example of Governments working together, which Bob Doris and Paul Sweeney spoke about.

Paul Sweeney (Labour, Glasgow)

The minister is making a series of helpful suggestions, which are welcome. Will she consider looking at forthcoming legislation and the Housing (Scotland) Bill, in discussion with her colleague the Minister for Housing, to place more obligations on landlords to make necessary adaptations for people who are facing a terminal illness, so that they are more likely to stay in their own home?

Jenni Minto (Scottish National Party, Argyll and Bute)

I thank Paul Sweeney for that intervention. I am sure that Mr McLennan will be listening to the debate and taking heed of the points that are being raised.

A number of members have mentioned the situation with ethnic minorities and actions to access equitable healthcare. The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care has called out racism as a major public health issue, and we are working closely with health boards across Scotland to improve access to and experiences of healthcare, taking a proactive anti-racism approach. I recognise the concerns that members have raised.

On fuel poverty, the warmer homes Scotland scheme has been allocated £65 million this financial year—its highest budget to date—and we are now increasing that by a further £20 million to support even more households.

In recognition of the pressure on household budgets, our winter heating payment was uprated by 10.1 per cent for winter 2023-24 and a further 6.7 per cent for winter 2024-25. Just last Thursday, the Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Shirley-Anne Somerville, announced that we will be bringing forward regulations for next winter to introduce a universal pension age winter heating payment. All pensioner households, including those with a person of pension age who is terminally ill, will get support with their heating costs. That is not available elsewhere.

Elena Whitham mentioned the Scottish child payment. It is not possible to pay the Scottish child payment to families with dependent children under 16 on presentation of a BASRIS form, because that does not relate to entitlement to a qualifying reserved benefit. However, the Scottish child payment is just one part of our radically different Scottish social security system, in which we fast track disability assistance applications from terminally ill people, and in which terminally ill people automatically receive the highest rates of disability assistance that they are entitled to. Importantly, there are no time limits on the definition of terminal illness. That decision is made by clinicians.

As Elena Whitham also mentioned, a minimum income guarantee has the potential to deliver transformational change and reduce poverty and equality. We are looking forward to receiving the final report from our minimum income guarantee expert group, which is likely to be early in the new year.

As part of the record spending that was announced in yesterday’s budget, we are supporting the delivery of the highest standards of palliative care and are strongly committed to equitable access to it. As other members have noted, that is why we published our draft palliative care strategy for consultation, which I believe closes on 10 January—it is certainly early in the new year. That is an absolutely important piece of work, and I encourage everyone in the chamber and more widely to contribute to it, because, as Elena Whitham said, we need to ensure that we are thinking about the best deaths for people.

Fergus Ewing (Scottish National Party, Inverness and Nairn)

Will the minister take an intervention?

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

The minister is just winding up.

Jenni Minto (Scottish National Party, Argyll and Bute)

I absolutely reflect on what Fergus Ewing has been saying about the fantastic work that Highland Hospice does. As the cabinet secretary said earlier in the week, we need to ensure that partnership work with NHS Highland is strengthened. That is an important way to work. We also have important connections with the Scottish Ambulance Service, which provides home support with Macmillan Cancer Support.

On Miles Briggs’s potential member’s bill, I will meet him and Marie Curie early in the new year. On Bob Doris’s point, I am very happy to meet members who have contributed to the debate, because I believe that we have to approach the issue from a very non-political perspective and work together to get the best results for the people of Scotland.

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

That concludes the debate.

Business Motion

Annabelle Ewing (Scottish National Party, Cowdenbeath)

Good afternoon. The next item of business is consideration of business motion S6M-15758, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, on a change to the business programme.

Motion moved,

That the Parliament agrees to the following revision to the programme of business for Thursday 5 December 2024—

after

followed by Scottish Government Debate: Empowering Young People’s Voices in Tackling Violence Against Women and Girls

insert

followed by Financial Resolution: Scottish Languages Bill—[Jamie Hepburn]

Motion agreed to.

Portfolio Question Time

Annabelle Ewing (Scottish National Party, Cowdenbeath)

The next item of business is portfolio question time.

Question 1 has been withdrawn.

Michelle Thomson (Scottish National Party, Falkirk East)

To ask the Scottish Government whether it can provide an update regarding its consideration of whether to legislate to prescribe the number of learning hours. (S6O-04082)

The Minister for Children, Young People and The Promise (Natalie Don-Innes)

The Scottish Government is continuing to work with local government and its representatives, the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, on how we can best protect the learning hours that pupils in Scottish schools receive, including through budget discussions in recent weeks. The budget, which was published yesterday by the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government, sets out a funding package that, we believe, will enable all councils to maintain learning hours at current levels, and we very much hope that COSLA leaders will endorse that package when they meet tomorrow.

Michelle Thomson (Scottish National Party, Falkirk East)

Next week, Falkirk Council will consider a report that asks for a decision on proposals to cut learning hours in primary and secondary schools from the start of the next academic session. The proposals, which are intended to address the budget gap, are estimated to save about £6 million annually by cutting 91 teaching posts over the next four years. With the enhanced funding settlement for local authorities, as detailed in yesterday’s budget, what further assurances can the minister provide that the Government is providing every support to Falkirk Council in order to avoid it having to approve those cuts?

Natalie Don-Innes

The local government settlement for 2025-26 delivers more than £15 billion, which is an increase on last year’s settlement. That includes an additional £289 million to support local priorities and full discretion on council tax rate setting. Falkirk Council’s settlement will be published on 12 December, and I am confident that the council will be able to revisit those decisions off the back of a very strong local government settlement.

Kevin Stewart (Scottish National Party, Aberdeen Central)

To ask the Scottish Government what action it is taking to ensure that college courses are being tailored to meet the needs of industries involved in energy efficiency, carbon reduction and the just transition. (S6O-04083)

Graeme Dey (Scottish National Party, Angus South)

Our colleges have an important role to play in developing the multiskilled workforce that will drive the just transition to net zero. Colleges are directly involved in the regions and communities that they serve, and our expectation is that they will work closely with employers to determine the shape of their curriculum in that area and others.

The Scottish Government actively supports such work. For instance, through the just transition fund, we have allocated £4.5 million over five years for the energy transition skills hub at North East Scotland College, which aims to support 1,000 people into energy transition roles.

Kevin Stewart (Scottish National Party, Aberdeen Central)

I welcome the work that is going on at NESCol, but some businesses continue to tell me that college courses need to change to meet the needs of today’s ever-changing workplaces. How will the Government bring dynamism and flexibility into further education courses to meet the needs of companies?

Graeme Dey (Scottish National Party, Angus South)

I hear the same things as Kevin Stewart does, as he articulated. Colleges are responsible for determining their own operational decisions, including on course provision. We trust them to engage closely with employers and local partners to understand the skills needs and to routinely and continuously plan and adjust their core curriculum to meet the emerging needs of the economy. The post-school education and skills reform programme aims to make further improvements.

The Scottish Funding Council sets out expectations of colleges in return for the funding that they receive through outcomes, taking into consideration students, vocations, employers’ needs, the Scottish Government’s ambition and targets, and other stakeholder interests. For instance, NESCol co-developed a pre-apprenticeship welding course with direct industry input from the Energy Skills Partnership and Ocean Winds, in line with the needs of the offshore wind sector.

Good practice is out there, but we need that to be delivered more widely.

Annabelle Ewing (Scottish National Party, Cowdenbeath)

We have a supplementary question from Pam Duncan-Glancy, who joins us remotely.

Pam Duncan-Glancy (Labour, Glasgow)

The ability of colleges to deliver is crucial if they are to meet the needs of the energy industry, but yesterday’s budget included a real-terms cut for colleges. Colleges Scotland has said that the budget “undermines” colleges’ ability to deliver and that

“leaving colleges millions of pounds short is unacceptable”.

With regard to colleges, Audit Scotland has warned the Government of

“a risk to their ability to continue in their current form”

and has said that addressing colleges’ funding challenges

“cannot be avoided or postponed”.

Which is it? Is the minister postponing help for colleges or avoiding helping them altogether?

Graeme Dey (Scottish National Party, Angus South)

Colleges received a 1.8 per cent uplift in funding from the budget yesterday. Of course, if Labour or any other party wants the funding to be increased, it can engage in the budget negotiations process. I seem to remember Pam Duncan-Glancy also expressing the view yesterday that student support should be maintained at a level beyond demand, so there have already been two asks from her when the ink is barely dry on the budget. I should remind Labour that, if it wants to spend more in one or two areas, there will need to be cuts elsewhere in the budget.

I cannot let this opportunity pass without reminding Labour that a fresh and additional pressure on colleges will be the changes to employer national insurance contributions, which it is currently unwilling to fully mitigate.

Brian Whittle (Conservative, South Scotland)

To ask the Scottish Government what action it is taking to ensure that students are supported throughout their educational journey with career advice that aligns with the future economic need for specific roles and skills. (S6O-04084)

Graeme Dey (Scottish National Party, Angus South)

Career support is informed by skills and labour market information, with businesses and employers providing intelligence on opportunities and skills needs. However, we recognise that we need to do a lot more, and ministers have set out their intentions to improve the current offer, including by working with the career services collaborative to ensure that students are more aware of the wide range of economic opportunities in Scotland, the skills that are required and the pathways that are available to achieve their goals.

Alongside that, we have committed to taking responsibility for national skills planning and to strengthening regional approaches by better aligning them with the career support system.

Brian Whittle (Conservative, South Scotland)

The careers advice that is given in schools does not reflect future opportunities in Scotland’s green economy, in the blue economy, in the rural economy and—specifically in my area—in engineering. Ayrshire College provides fantastic engineering apprenticeships and has even opened its own aeronautical engineering apprenticeship facility at Prestwick airport.

We have the demand for and the capability to deliver apprenticeships. What will the Scottish Government do to ensure that those opportunities are marketed in schools and that there is enough investment in our colleges to meet the demand for those highly paid, highly skilled and long-term jobs?

Graeme Dey (Scottish National Party, Angus South)

I suspect that this will worry Brian Whittle, but I genuinely agree with what he has said. We are actively working on an upgraded role for the career services collaborative, whose membership includes not just Skills Development Scotland and Developing the Young Workforce but colleges, universities and local authorities. Good work is being done in that space, but we need to pull all of it together to ensure that we have a fully cohesive and coherent careers offering for people of all ages.

I will pick up on Brian Whittle’s specific point. Just this morning, I held an employers round-table meeting, where I spoke to a representative of the aerospace sector from Ayrshire. He made the same points as Brian Whittle has made about access to apprenticeships, but he recognised that it is not just about new recruits, because it is difficult to get the numbers that people are looking for. In all of this, we need to do a lot more to upskill and reskill the existing workforce.

I absolutely get the points that Brian Whittle has made. I give him the commitment that we are alive to all those issues and are working towards improving the situation.

Michael Matheson (Scottish National Party, Falkirk West)

The minister recognises the importance of the alignment of skills advice with the skills gaps that are found in some sectors, and the need to encourage young people into some of those professional groupings. I am aware that Skills Development Scotland recently completed a survey of young people on their career aspirations. Does the minister feel that the findings from that survey align with the approach that Skills Development Scotland has taken in working with young people to give them careers advice? If not, what action could be taken to ensure that that is the case?

Graeme Dey (Scottish National Party, Angus South)

I read the survey with interest and thought that there was some fascinating information in it about the aspirations of young people. As I said earlier, we aspire to improve the offering, and this is one area in which we need to better articulate to young people all the opportunities that are available to them, based on their interests, skills and performance in school. There is more that we can do, but I thought that the survey was a useful piece of work to inform our thinking.

To be frank with the member, one of the things that has informed my planning for improvements in this area has been the conversations that I have had directly with young people about their expectations and what they are looking for out of the system. That is why we are looking to make some of the changes.

Christine Grahame (Scottish National Party, Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale)

To ask the Scottish Government, in relation to the provision of support for children with additional support needs, what assessment it has made of any impact of the reported delays to ADHD assessments for children on their education. (S6O-04085)

The Minister for Children, Young People and The Promise (Natalie Don-Innes)

The Scottish Government is aware that there has been a significant increase in children and families seeking a diagnosis and requiring support for their neurodivergence, which is creating challenges for a range of services. However, we are clear that support should be put in place to meet a child’s requirements when they need it, rather than requiring support to be dependent on a formal diagnosis. That includes where additional support is needed for learning.

Local authorities have duties under the Education (Additional Support for Learning) (Scotland) Act 2004 to identify, provide for and review the additional needs of their pupils. Under the act, an additional support need can arise for any reason, and a diagnosis of ADHD is not required before support is put in place.

Christine Grahame (Scottish National Party, Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale)

I note in the budget the reference to additional ASN teachers, which I welcome, and I acknowledge what the minister said in her answer with regard to ADHD. However, given the admitted delays for children, would she consider, with her health colleague, establishing a list of qualified private ADHD assessors whose diagnosis might be accepted by national health service practitioners, in order to facilitate shared care agreements across Scotland and assist in children’s educational provision? ADHD is a wide spectrum and the needs of each child will be different.

Natalie Don-Innes

We want all children to get the support that they need when they need it. I would be happy to speak to Ms Grahame about that proposal. Obviously, that would have to be discussed with my health colleagues as well, but I am absolutely happy to listen to that proposal further.

Roz McCall (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

I also note the inclusion of the £29 million ASN plan in yesterday’s draft budget. However, the scale of the challenge in relation to additional support needs such as ADHD is serious, with more than 37,000 children in Scotland having the condition—and that number is growing rapidly.

Children with ADHD are more likely to drop out of school and to have lower scores in reading and maths. It is, therefore, deeply concerning that NHS Tayside currently has a waiting time for children’s referral to its neurodevelopmental service of 154 weeks—that is just short of three years

I note that the minister said that there should not be a delay in support, but there is a delay in diagnosis. That means that children are going without support and pressure is being put on our teachers. How will the £29 million fund in the budget help those students now, given that recruiting and training teachers will take years?

Natalie Don-Innes

It is concerning to hear what Roz McCall has said about the waiting times in that specific case. As I said in my previous answer, we want children to receive the support that they need when they need it.

Spending by authorities on additional support for learning has reached a record high, and our draft budget provides local government with an additional £41 million to support extra teachers and support staff, as well as that additional £29 million for additional support for learning services. I therefore encourage Roz McCall and her party to vote for the budget, if she wants to see further increases in support services for children with additional support needs.

John Mason (Independent, Glasgow Shettleston)

To ask the Scottish Government what steps it is taking to raise awareness of apprenticeship opportunities and promote them as an attractive career path for young people. (S6O-04086)

Graeme Dey (Scottish National Party, Angus South)

Skills Development Scotland provides an all-age careers service in every local authority area, with an SDS careers adviser in each school in Scotland to highlight the available careers options, including apprenticeships. SDS also works with partners and employers to highlight the importance of apprenticeships, particularly through Scottish apprenticeship week. We continue to work closely with SDS to support the promotion of apprenticeships throughout Scotland at all times.

As Mr Mason knows, we are actively progressing measures to build on the foundations that we already have in place, thanks to the endeavours of SDS.