Scottish Parliament, 7 March 2024

261 contributions from 58 members. The official report.

General Question Time

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Good morning. The first item of business is general question time.

Rural National Health Service Boards (Support)

Oliver Mundell (Conservative, Dumfriesshire)

1. To ask the Scottish Government what steps it is taking to support rural health boards. (S6O-03174)

Neil Gray (Scottish National Party, Airdrie and Shotts)

It is for health boards to plan and provide services that best meet the needs of local people, including those in remote and rural areas, consistent with national policies and frameworks. As someone who grew up in a rural island community, I recognise that remote and rural national health service boards experience particular challenges, which is why we continue to work to support the delivery of services that are flexible and responsive to local population needs and geographic challenges. An example of that is the national centre for remote and rural health and care, which was launched last October.

As for resources, the Scottish Government’s budget for this year provides funding of more than £19.5 billion for NHS recovery, health and social care, including more than £14.2 billion of investment for NHS boards, delivering a real-terms uplift of almost 3 per cent compared with what is happening through the United Kingdom Government’s continued austerity approach.

Oliver Mundell (Conservative, Dumfriesshire)

Steering away from the political debate around specific budgets, I am concerned that the current funding model does not take into account the ageing demographic in areas such as Dumfries and Galloway and the challenges in delivering health services across a wide geographical area. In the light of the recent work on rural depopulation, will the cabinet secretary look again at whether current funding formulas truly account for the needs of ageing people in rural communities?

Neil Gray (Scottish National Party, Airdrie and Shotts)

I hope that, wherever Oliver Mundell appears to be steering to on screen, he is doing so safely.

To go back to the question in hand, I set out in my initial answer that I recognise that remote, rural and island communities have particular demographic challenges. I will always take representations from Oliver Mundell and other members who represent rural areas, and from members of our health boards, on how we can support them in the delivery of such services. I have already referenced the work that has been done on the national centre for remote and rural health and care, and I hope that its work will continue to inform the decisions that we need to take in that area.

As much as Oliver Mundell would wish not to talk about the budgetary situation, the financial landscape is incredibly pressing and we need to be cognisant of that as we take our decisions.

Rhoda Grant (Labour, Highlands and Islands)

Because of staff shortages, NHS Western Isles is offering record salaries to general practitioners to relocate to the islands. Will the Scottish Government now reassess rural and island recruitment incentives to attract staff, given that the cost of employing locums is excessive?

Moreover, given that one of the reasons for the current difficulty is people’s inability to find homes, will the Government also take steps to address the housing crisis in those areas by placing a ceiling on the numbers of holiday homes and second homes that a community can sustain, and by placing a burden on homes that are subsidised by the public purse, to keep them within the local housing market?

Neil Gray (Scottish National Party, Airdrie and Shotts)

My colleagues across Government will note Rhoda Grant’s calls on the housing front and her request that we crack down further on holiday lets. I know from the rural housing action plan, which my colleague Paul McLennan is progressing, that action is being taken to provide greater housing supply in those areas. I recognise that recruiters, not just for health and social care services but across the public sector, face that challenge in ensuring that we can attract people to live and work in those areas, and I will continue to work with my colleagues across Government on that.

The Presiding Officer

As there is much interest in this session, concise questions and responses will be appreciated.

Medication in Schools (NHS Fife)

Sandesh Gulhane (Conservative, Glasgow)

2. To ask the Scottish Government whether it has intervened to direct NHS Fife and the relevant education authorities to permit schools to issue basic medication, such as paracetamol and ibuprofen, without the need for a general practitioner prescription, in light of reports that primary care is struggling in NHS Fife. (S6O-03175)

Jenni Minto (Scottish National Party, Argyll and Bute)

The Scottish Government has not directed NHS Fife or Fife Council to give permission to schools to issue basic medication such

as paracetamol or ibuprofen. Our guidance on supporting children and young people with healthcare needs in schools states:

“schools should not purchase non-prescribed medication unless using those powers permitted under the provisions of the Human Medicines Regulations.”

Those regulations permit schools to buy and hold salbutamol inhalers to treat asthma or adrenaline auto-injectors to treat anaphylaxis.

Parents may provide schools with non-prescribed medications, alongside clear and appropriate instructions for their use, and give consent for the medication to be administered. Alternatively, pupils—or parents or carers on their behalf—can access the national health service’s pharmacy first Scotland service, which is provided by community pharmacies, to receive advice and medicines to treat minor illnesses and common clinical conditions.

Sandesh Gulhane (Conservative, Glasgow)

I draw attention to my entry in the register of members’ interests as a practising NHS GP and as someone who recently worked in NHS Fife, which proved to be far more challenging than it needed to be. I was unable to order blood tests that I could order at other health boards, and I could not organise radiological investigations. It was an absolute nightmare.

However, none of that compares to the disgrace that was the rejection of referrals from GPs to the hospital. It is clear to me, from having spoken to other GPs across the health board, that there is an underlying presumption of rejection of referrals, presumably to improve figures. I was told that it depends on the day and on the mood of the consultant whether a GP referral is rejected.

Forcing GPs to waste their time by issuing prescriptions for basic medications—because schools insist upon it; please just help sort that, minister—and by having to fight the system to get patients seen and treated is unacceptable. Will the minister call out that postcode lottery and undertake an investigation into the practices of NHS Fife?

Jenni Minto (Scottish National Party, Argyll and Bute)

That was quite a question. It is something that we will take note of and look at. We have regular meetings with NHS Fife, and we have discussions on those things.

With regard to prescriptions for schools, I laid out in my first response that community pharmacies are the places where families should go.

Willie Rennie (Liberal Democrat, North East Fife)

Health centres in North East Fife have not been given the members of the multidisciplinary team that they were promised. However, local GPs have offered to solve the problem by doing the recruitment themselves. The previous health secretary said that that would lead to different services in different parts of the country. Does the minister accept that people in North East Fife are already facing different outcomes? Will she allow GPs to recruit those staff themselves?

Jenni Minto (Scottish National Party, Argyll and Bute)

We have been working with GPs in Fife to ensure that we get the right volume of staff there. I am happy to look into proposals to allow GPs to appoint people within their practices, and I am happy to get back to the member on that.

Pupil Assaults in School

Maurice Golden (Conservative, North East Scotland)

3. To ask the Scottish Government what action it is taking to reduce the number of assaults by pupils in schools. (S6O-03176)

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

I am absolutely clear that our schools should be safe and consistent learning environments for all. No teacher, support assistant or pupil should face violence in Scotland’s schools.

The

behaviour in Scottish schools research that was published in November 2023 provides a robust and accurate national picture in relation to behaviour in Scotland’s schools, and the series of behaviour summits that I held in September, October and November, alongside the BISSR findings, are informing the national action plan. In my statement to Parliament last year, I confirmed that the multiyear joint action plan would be developed, together with local authorities, trade unions and others, to tackle instances of challenging behaviour, and that plan will be published in the spring.

This week, the First Minister and I launched the gender-based violence framework, which aims to address the issues of misogyny and gender-based violence in schools, a theme that was captured by BISSR.

Maurice Golden (Conservative, North East Scotland)

I was recently contacted by a constituent in Angus, who told me how her son required hospital treatment after being assaulted by a fellow pupil. Unfortunately, my constituent has been dismayed by the school’s response: the headteacher has twice declined to meet her personally; a proposed safety plan was full of holes; and, incredibly, it was suggested that her son be removed from his peers and educated separately while requests to exclude the alleged attacker were rebuffed. Does the cabinet secretary believe that that family are receiving the support that they need? What will she do to ensure that they get that support?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

I thank Mr Golden for raising his constituent’s query. Obviously, he has outlined some of the details of that case in the chamber. If he is able to share more details with my office, I will speak to officials regarding the specifics.

In that instance, it would, of course, be a matter for the local authority to engage with the parent and the headteacher. Mr Golden has outlined a challenging instance, and it is worth reflecting that that is also captured by the BISSR that was published last year. I am happy to engage with the member on the specifics of his ask.

The Presiding Officer

Bill Kidd has a

short supplementary question.

Bill Kidd (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Anniesland)

We know that p

overty and child hunger have a key impact on children’s behaviour at school. What is the Scottish Government doing to ensure that no child in Scotland goes to school hungry?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

We have the most comprehensive free school meal offer of any nation in the United Kingdom, and we are currently extending it to cover primary 6 and 7 children in receipt of the Scottish child payment from February 2025 as the next step towards universal provision in our primary schools.

School-based Violence

Martin Whitfield (Labour, South Scotland)

4. To ask the Scottish Government when it last met the Educational Institute of Scotland and other teacher unions to discuss school-based violence. (S6O-03177)

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

I meet our national teaching unions regularly to discuss a range of topics, including violence. I met the EIS and other teaching unions last Monday, and, on 31 January, I chaired a meeting of the Scottish advisory group on relationships and behaviour in schools to discuss the national behaviour action plan. That meeting was attended by the main teaching unions, including the EIS. I held a round-table meeting with the EIS and other teaching unions on 6 December to discuss their reflections on the national behaviour in Scottish schools research and their own views on actions that are required in the relationships and behaviour action plan.

Martin Whitfield (Labour, South Scotland)

The cabinet secretary

will, no doubt, have heard from those unions about the disappointment that they felt that the Scottish Government was so desperately unaware of the EIS Aberdeen local association report on violence. Some 800 teachers had responded. A national plan is coming forward. Can the cabinet secretary confirm that teacher wellbeing will be added as a quality indicator in school inspections, given the impact of violence on our teachers?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

The localised evidence that Martin Whitfield has spoken to is hugely important in informing the national action plan, which will set out a range of actions for the Government to respond to, and also for local authorities. It is important that that is understood.

I continue to engage with the EIS at the national level with Andrea Bradley and with the other teaching unions, a number of which have also published documentary evidence on the extent of challenging behaviour in our schools.

Martin Whitfield asked a specific question about a quality indicator in school inspections. I think that that would be a matter for the newly appointed interim chief inspector. However, I am more than happy to speak to her about that process and about including that indicator in future school inspections for her consideration.

The Presiding Officer

Liam Kerr has a brief supplementary question.

Liam Kerr (Conservative, North East Scotland)

Following the shocking EIS report on violence in Aberdeen, Aberdeen City Council is introducing a whistleblowing form for teachers who feel that they are discouraged from reporting violent incidents by pupils. Does the cabinet secretary welcome that move, or does she have concerns?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

I do not think that I would have concerns. I think that that is an appropriate move from that local authority to respond to challenges in its area. I understand that other local authorities use similar protocol in relation to incidents of that nature. We will certainly seek to engage with Aberdeen City Council, as I have already done, on its approach to challenging behaviour.

Ministerial Population Task Force

Ben Macpherson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Northern and Leith)

5. To ask the Scottish Government how it is taking forward the work and priorities of its ministerial population task force. (S6O-03178)

Emma Roddick (Scottish National Party, Highlands and Islands)

The population strategy sets out the task force’s priorities around the opportunities and challenges for Scotland’s changing population. We are committed to a collaborative approach to delivering those ambitions, including with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities and local authorities through our recurring population round tables, with membership from Scottish Enterprise, Highlands and Islands Enterprise and South of Scotland Enterprise on the population programme board, which supports the task force.

Our addressing depopulation action plan, which was published in February, states our commitment to working with regional, local and community partners to deliver a sustainable solution to population challenges. We will also launch our talent attraction and migration service this year. That will support our ambition for Scotland to be as attractive and welcoming as possible by helping employers to use the immigration system to fill skills needs and supporting individuals to move to and settle in Scotland.

Ben Macpherson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Northern and Leith)

I thank the minister for that substantial answer, and I appreciate the need for actions to address depopulation in some areas of Scotland. Conversely, however, we also require actions to meet the growing needs of areas with significant growing populations—such as my constituency of Edinburgh Northern and Leith. As the Scottish Government begins to consider its budget for 2024-25, will the ministerial task force examine rapid population growth in the Lothians, and will it consider meeting Lothian MSPs, local councils, NHS Lothian and other relevant bodies to hear about the pressures and concerns?

Emma Roddick (Scottish National Party, Highlands and Islands)

As the minister responsible for population, I am more than happy to meet anyone to discuss the impact of a lack of a balanced population, which affects those who face depopulation and those who face rapid growth, in different ways.

In 2023, the Scottish Government undertook exploratory research about the drivers and implications of rapid localised growth. That was considered by the ministerial population task force and local government partners.

As a next step, the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities is working with local authorities to develop an enhanced understanding of the implications of population growth, particularly in east-coast local authority areas. We are engaging directly with local authorities through the joint Scottish Government-COSLA population round table to hear about those distinct challenges. That work will build on our understanding of the challenges and will inform the next steps of the ministerial population task force.

The Presiding Officer

Let us pick up the pace, colleagues.

Vaping (Action to Minimise Harm)

Gillian Mackay (Green, Central Scotland)

6. To ask the Scottish Government what public health measures are being taken to minimise harm from vaping, prior to the introduction of the proposed ban on single-use vapes. (S6O-03179)

Jenni Minto (Scottish National Party, Argyll and Bute)

Our tobacco and vaping framework, which was published in November 2023, committed to taking action to reduce vaping among non-smokers and young people. Vapes should not be used by young people or adult non-smokers; they are one of a range of possible cessation tools available for existing smokers to quit.

Alongside the framework, we launched the take hold marketing campaign, which successfully increased the awareness of parents, carers and children of the harms and risks of nicotine addiction from vaping.

New resources on vaping were also launched on the Parent Club, NHS Inform and Young Scot websites. We continue to work across the four nations on progressing the outcomes from the smoke-free generation consultation.

Gillian Mackay (Green, Central Scotland)

Organisations are concerned about how disposable or single-use vapes are defined. They are concerned that manufacturers might try to add a USB port to a disposable vape to get around potential regulation, as well as about the potential scope of exemptions in the regulations. Will the minister provide some assurances on those issues and detail any other work that is under way while we wait for a ban to be in place, such as instructing retailers to put vapes behind cover and tackling advertising?

Jenni Minto (Scottish National Party, Argyll and Bute)

The Scottish Government has published its draft regulations, which define a single-use vape as

“a vape which is not designed or intended to be re-used ... and includes any vape which is ... not refillable, ... not rechargeable, or ... not refillable and not rechargeable”.

The purpose of that is to support any future design changes to those devices.

Organisations can view the full proposed definition in the draft regulations on the Scottish Government website. As I have said, we are working closely with other United Kingdom nations to ensure a consistent definition across the UK, and with trading standards officers and other organisations to ensure that the definition is fit for purpose.

NHS Dumfries and Galloway (Funding Deficit)

Colin Smyth (Labour, South Scotland)

7. To ask the Scottish Government when it last discussed NHS Dumfries and Galloway’s funding deficit with the national health service board. (S6O-03180)

Neil Gray (Scottish National Party, Airdrie and Shotts)

More than

£0.5 billion of increased investment is provided for front-line NHS boards in the 2024-25 budget. That real-terms uplift has taken total funding to £13.2 billion. Despite our significant investment, the system is under extreme pressure as a result of the on-going impacts of Covid, Brexit, inflation, the cost crisis and United Kingdom Government spending decisions.

The Scottish Government’s financial delivery unit is in on-going contact with all boards to address the financial challenge. That includes scrutinising and challenging financial plans and agreeing actions to support recurring savings and financial sustainability. The FDU last met NHS Dumfries and Galloway on 4 March.

Colin Smyth (Labour, South Scotland)

NHS Dumfries and Galloway has projected that it will face a £54 million deficit by March 2025, and the Scottish Government has ordered it to find £29 million in savings in the forthcoming year alone. In a region where people cannot find an NHS dentist to register with; mums-to-be in Wigtownshire have to take a 150-mile round trip to Dumfries to give birth because the maternity unit in Stranraer remains closed; cottage hospitals that were closed in order to deal with Covid have not reopened; and there are record vacancies for consultants and record waiting lists, where exactly does the cabinet secretary expect NHS Dumfries and Galloway to make cuts of nearly £30 million in the next year alone without that having a devastating impact on patient care?

Neil Gray (Scottish National Party, Airdrie and Shotts)

I thank Colin Smyth for his question and his interest in the area. Despite our significant investment, which I have already outlined, all NHS boards, like other public services, are under unprecedented pressure as a result of inflation and, quite frankly, yesterday’s budget.

The support that we are providing through the likes of the financial delivery unit consists of: funding to cover pay increases; scrutiny and challenge of three-year financial plans; considering and reviewing the financial impact of national and local service planning options; and work to deliver recurring savings of a minimum of 3 per cent, which is supported by our sustainability and value programme and the financial improvement group. That targeted additional support through the Scottish Government’s FDU will be there to monitor and support boards with their financial performance and to support financial improvement.

I recognise the challenges that Colin Smyth has set out. I will continue to work with boards to ensure that we see continued progression and improvement in our health service, while also addressing the significant financial challenges that we are facing.

Waiting Times (Accident and Emergency Departments)

Douglas Ross (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

1. New statistics that were released this week revealed that January this year was the worst month ever for long waits at Scotland’s A and E departments. Almost 9,000 patients waited for more than half a day for emergency treatment.

We spoke to Kirsteen Campbell from Ross-shire. She spent more than seven hours in a waiting room at the Queen Elizabeth university hospital after experiencing symptoms of a heart attack or blood clot during a visit to Clydebank. She told me that, to alleviate the pain that she was in, she had to lie on the floor, surrounded by vomit and other bodily fluids, because there was no bed available. What does Humza Yousaf have to say to Kirsteen? How will he fix the problem?

Humza Yousaf (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Pollok)

Before I answer Douglas Ross’s question, I want to say, on behalf of the Scottish Government and the party that I lead, how sad we were to hear the tragic news of the loss of Nick Sheridan. Nick was an extremely talented journalist and author, and he will be greatly missed. Many of us in the chamber will have been questioned by Nick, no doubt quite robustly, whether it was on BBC “Drivetime” or on the many other programmes that he presented. My thoughts are with his family, his many friends and his colleagues, for whom it will undoubtedly be a very sad time.

On the serious question that Douglas Ross asked, I would say to Kirsteen Campbell and anybody else who has had to wait too long—longer than any of us would expect—for A and E treatment, elective care or diagnostics that, first and foremost, the Government apologises for that. However, we are still recovering from the global pandemic, which affected every health service in the country, and that is precisely why the Deputy First Minister ensured that record funding—more than £19.5 billion—is going into the national health service. It is why we ensured that those on front line who are dealing with, treating and caring for the likes of Kirsteen and many other patients across Scotland are the best paid in the entire United Kingdom. It is why we increased their pay to record levels, and it is also why, under this Government, we have increased staffing levels to historic highs.

Are the long waits that too many patients have to endure acceptable? Not at all. That is why we are investing in our NHS and in our staff. What makes that far more difficult, of course, is having real-term budget cuts from Westminster. If public spending for NHS England is slashed, that has consequences for Scotland, too.

The Government will continue to invest in our NHS and, most crucially, in our NHS staff, who do an incredible job day in, day out.

Douglas Ross (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

On behalf of the Scottish Conservatives, I, too, pay tribute to Nick Sheridan. I have been interviewed by him in the past, and he was a robust but extremely professional journalist. I know that his loss will be felt so much by his family and friends, as well as by his colleagues at the BBC and across the media, who regarded him so highly.

I listened carefully to the First Minister’s answer. The example of Kirsteen and A and E departments that I gave in my first question is replicated across our NHS. This week, we learned that patients in Scotland’s NHS are nearly 30 times more likely to be waiting more than two years for treatment than those south of the border are. More than 8,000 patients have been waiting over two years for treatment in Scotland’s NHS. Eight thousand have been waiting more than two years. Does Humza Yousaf think that it is acceptable for one person—never mind thousands—to wait more than two years for treatment? What is he planning to do specifically to deal with the appalling waits for treatment?

The First Minister

I said in my first response that we do not believe that it is acceptable for anybody to have to endure a long wait—be it for unscheduled care, elective care or diagnostics. However, I hope that we all understand that the impact of the global pandemic has affected health services not just in Scotland but around the world.

Douglas Ross asked what we are doing about this. It is because of our investment in the NHS—record investment—that we are seeing progress and recovery. I will look at the statistics that came out this week, which Douglas Ross referred to. They show a 15 per cent increase in operations performed in January compared with the previous month. In comparison with January from the year before, there was a 16 per cent increase. That shows that activity is moving in the right direction. In January this year, 702 operations were carried out each day, which compares with 604 in January of the previous year.

On long waits, there have been elements of recovery. The number of new out-patients who are waiting more than two years is down by 66 per cent. Two-year waits for in-patients and day cases are down by 25 per cent.

Douglas Ross asked what we are specifically doing about this. We are making sure that we are investing in our capacity. Through our network of treatment centres and 20,000 additional surgeries, we have provided that capacity.

I go back to my central point and will end on it. We are investing record amounts in our NHS. We are investing in our staff. We are making sure that they are the best paid. That job becomes immeasurably difficult when the UK Government has, in real terms, taken £500 million out of our budget over the past two years. Douglas Ross really needs to use whatever influence he has—of course, we know that he does not have much—to make sure that the Conservatives fund public services and do not slash them to the bone.

Douglas Ross (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

When we are speaking about our NHS and patients, it is really important that we speak to the 8,000 people across Scotland who are suffering and waiting more than two years—[

Interruption

.]

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

I suspend the meeting briefly.

12:07 Meeting suspended.

12:08 On resuming—

The Presiding Officer

I call Douglas Ross.

Douglas Ross (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

I was saying that the 8,000 people in Scotland who have been waiting more than two years for treatment want to hear more from the First Minister about how he is going to deal with that.

It is unsurprising that Humza Yousaf still blames Covid, but the crisis in Scotland’s NHS has continued to get worse since the pandemic. Since he became First Minister, more than 500,000 days have been lost because of delayed discharge—that means that, over the past 12 months, 500,000 hospital beds could have been available for other patients.

The Scottish National Party promised to eradicate delayed discharge eight years ago. If it had done that, as it promised—[

Interruption

.] I think that the First Minister just said that that is stupid—

The First Minister

I did not say that at all.

Douglas Ross (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

I

t was a promise from the SNP Government—[

Interruption

.]

The Presiding Officer

Colleagues, let us conduct our business in an orderly fashion.

Douglas Ross (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

Well, SNP members were disagreeing with something. I will be interested to know whether the First Minister disagrees that it was a promise to eradicate completely delayed discharge eight years ago. If the SNP had done that, waiting times would be lower for emergency care, ambulances and emergency treatment. How costly has the failure to eradicate delayed discharge been for patients who are waiting in Scotland’s NHS?

The First Minister

First, Douglas Ross should withdraw and retract his comment. I did not, in fact, say anything to Douglas Ross—[

Interruption

.]

The Presiding Officer

I ask the First Minister to take a seat.

Colleagues, it is exceptionally important that we conduct our business in an orderly fashion. We can best do that not by shouting and pointing at one another but by ensuring that the person who has been called to speak has the opportunity to do so and that we listen respectfully.

The First Minister

That is right, Presiding Officer. Douglas Ross, having clearly been left hung out to dry by his colleagues, is desperate to simply make up what has been said or not said.

When it comes to the NHS in Scotland, I am very proud of the fact that the actions that we have taken mean that Scotland remains the only country anywhere in the UK not to have lost a single day to NHS strike action.

When it comes to social care, which Douglas Ross is absolutely right to point to, Brexit has been a complete and utter disaster for social care recruitment. Not only that, but the recent changes to migration rules have been described as absolutely devastating by those who work in social care.

We can add to that, as I have already said, a real-terms cut to our budget over the past couple of years, including a £1.3 billion cut to our capital budget, which directly affects health infrastructure. We are attempting to recover our NHS in the face of 14 years of Conservative austerity.

The SNP-led Scottish Government will invest in our NHS and make sure that we have record staffing levels and the best-paid NHS staff anywhere in the UK, and we will continue to make sure that we invest in our public services, while Douglas Ross and his party take a hatchet to public services across the UK.

Douglas Ross (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

Last week, a whistleblower in NHS Grampian revealed to

The Press and Journal

that, at one stage, 18 ambulances were stuck outside Aberdeen royal infirmary. The whistleblower said that that could have been

“up to half of the north-east’s fleet of ambulances … stuck in one place and unable to leave … instead of supporting and protecting the communities we serve.”

I can repeat that if the First Minister is getting advice from the health secretary, because I think that it is really important—[

Interruption

.]

The Presiding Officer

Please continue, Mr Ross.

Douglas Ross (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

It is really important

that the First Minister listens to what our professionals in Scotland’s NHS are saying. The whistleblower in NHS Grampian continued—[

Interruption

.] What? Is that the response that we are going to get from a cabinet secretary in the Scottish Government? I hope that that is withdrawn.

The Presiding Officer

Mr Ross—

Douglas Ross (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

I hope that that is withdrawn.

The Presiding Officer

Mr Ross,

I did not hear the comment that you obviously heard from the floor. However, it is essential that members desist from making any commentary when their colleagues are putting questions to one another and responding to them. We will not continue in that vein. I would be grateful if members would remind themselves of standing orders and the need to treat one another with courtesy and respect.

Douglas Ross (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

I cannot believe that Angus Robertson is smirking after saying that, when I am quoting from an ambulance worker in NHS Grampian. I will continue to read out the whistleblower’s words, because they seem to be uncomfortable for the SNP Government. The whistleblower in NHS Grampian continued:

“Many of my colleagues share a concern that we’re unable to help those most in need because we’re tied up at the hospital and not where they need us to be.”

That is happening across Scotland. We spoke to Ian Black, who gave up waiting for an ambulance after 15 hours, when he was told that Monklands hospital was full. When he eventually got an ambulance the following morning, it emerged that he had suffered a stroke. Ian is still alive to explain his situation, but if that happens to other people, they might not be. Waiting 15 hours for an ambulance after a stroke would be fatal in other circumstances.

Will the First Minister please, therefore, take the issue more seriously than others on his front bench do and tell us what urgent action he is taking to stop ambulances being stuck outside Scotland’s hospitals? People will lose their lives if he does not.

The First Minister

Of course I take the issue seriously. I am not sure why Douglas Ross is so rattled in this session of First Minister’s question time. He mentioned

The Press and Journal

—a great paper that I read regularly—so it might be something to do with that—[

Interruption

.]

The Presiding Officer

Members!

The First Minister

The health challenges that those across the country—and, no doubt, the Scottish Ambulance Service—are facing are why we have increased funding for the Scottish Ambulance Service in the next financial year. In the current financial year, we ensured that the Scottish Ambulance Service was provided with funding of £50 million, which has helped it in recruiting an additional 317 staff by April this year. We are increasing numbers and recruiting more staff where we can.

There is no getting away from the fact that the global pandemic had an impact on health services across the country, including in Scotland. Despite that, however, and thanks to the efforts of incredible paramedics, agenda for change staff and doctors up and down the country, we continue to have the best-performing accident and emergency service, and the best-paid staff, in the UK. We have more qualified nurses and midwives per head of population than there are in England, and we have not lost a single day of NHS activity to strike action. On waiting times, for example, we have made improvements and have seen recovery.

However, there is still far more for us to do. This Government is not just committed to the NHS; we will support it, in its greatest hour of need by ensuring that it has record investment of more than £19.5 billion. That is in stark contrast to the UK Conservative Government, which has slashed public spending to the bone so that Douglas Ross and high earners can get a tax cut. That is the wrong priority—[

Interruption

.]

The Presiding Officer

I suspend the meeting briefly.

12:17 Meeting suspended.

12:17 On resuming—

We resume once more.

Treatment Time Guarantee

Anas Sarwar (Labour, Glasgow)

2. I start by echoing the comments about Nick Sheridan. He was a young, talented and charismatic journalist with a huge future ahead of him, and our thoughts are with his family and friends and all his colleagues at the BBC.

When we are discussing issues of life and death in our national health service, I think—to be frank—that patients across Scotland deserve better than what they have seen in the past 20 minutes at First Minister’s questions.

The treatment time guarantee is a legally binding maximum waiting time of 12 weeks from referral to treatment. How many times has the Scottish National Party Government broken that law?

Humza Yousaf (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Pollok)

Although I do not have that figure to hand, there is no doubt that we have seen increases in waits, and long waits, which is due—again—to the global pandemic. We know that there were challenges before the global pandemic, and it is fair to reference that, but we are making progress on those long waits. We are investing in our recovery, which is why we saw, for example, the number of operations that were performed in January this year increase by 15 per cent in comparison with the month before.

These challenges are faced across the United Kingdom. If we look at data for 31 December 2023, we see that in Scotland there were 124 patients per 1,000 of the population waiting for the treatment time guarantee and new out-patient appointments. That is fewer than in England, where 134 patients per 1,000 are on the RTT—referral to treatment—waiting list, and in Wales, where the figure is 244 per 1,000.

That is, of course, cold comfort to those in Scotland who are waiting, but the point is that these issues are having an impact on our health service across the UK.

I go back to the point that I made to Douglas Ross and to Anas Sarwar. We are investing in that recovery, and we are beginning to see progress in reducing the numbers of those who are waiting the longest and in increasing activity in the NHS. This Government will continue to invest in our NHS, with record funding of more than £19.5 billion.

Anas Sarwar (Labour, Glasgow)

It is written in law that a patient should be treated within 12 weeks. The SNP has broken the law more than 680,000 times. Humza Yousaf might try to blame the pandemic, but the law was broken more than 320,000 times before Covid. Shona Robison broke the law 158,000 times, Michael Matheson broke the law 184,000 times, and Humza Yousaf broke the law 235,000 times. Since the First Minister published his so-called NHS recovery plan, the SNP has broken the law 306,735 times. Every one of those breaches is someone waiting anxiously for a medical procedure, often in pain. Many have put their lives on hold, stopped work or retired because of their condition. Too many of them have been forced to go private, in the middle of a cost of living crisis, just to stop the pain. Will the First Minister apologise to the 680,000 people whose lives his Government has failed by breaking the law?

The First Minister

I already said in response to Douglas Ross that of course the Government apologises and regrets anybody having to wait longer, whether it is in relation to unscheduled care, long waits or the treatment time guarantee. We do not want a single person waiting a day longer—a minute longer—than they have to do.

However, Anas Sarwar completely ignores the impact of the pandemic. He does that every time he talks about the national health service. The pandemic was the biggest shock that our NHS has faced in its 75-year existence. Progress was being made on waiting times before the pandemic, but there is no doubt that the impact of the global pandemic on our health service has been severe.

I go back to the point that we are beginning to see some improvements and increases in activity. For example, we have seen a reduction in the number of people who have waited the longest: since June 2022, we have seen a 66 per cent reduction in the number of people waiting two years for new out-patient appointments and a reduction of a quarter for in-patient and day-case treatments.

What are we doing about this? We are ensuring an increased capacity for 20,000 additional surgeries. We have also provided seven mobile MRI and three mobile CT scanners to increase additional activity.

The Presiding Officer

Be brief, First Minister.

The First Minister

We are also supporting mobile operating theatres up and down the country.

I go back to a point that I have made before to Douglas Ross and Anas Sarwar: we are doing all of that in the face of 14 years of UK Tory austerity and a real-terms cut to our budget. It would be much better for us if we had control over our own finances, so that we would not be beholden to cruel Westminster Governments that continue to cut our budget.

Anas Sarwar (Labour, Glasgow)

They have had 17 years

in government, and that is their best answer? Seriously.

Across nearly every measure, this Government has failed. It has broken the treatment time guarantee law 680,000 times, 320,000 times of which were before the pandemic. Humza Yousaf wants to pretend that things are getting better, but let us look at the NHS stats that were published this week. A third of patients are not being seen within four hours in our accident and emergency departments. In one month, more than 8,500 people have waited in A and E for more than 12 hours. There have been 55,000 fewer planned operations in the past year compared to before the pandemic. Some 5,500 children are waiting to receive mental health treatment. Only one in five people is getting crucial bowel cancer tests on time, which is shocking when cancer remains Scotland’s biggest killer.

Does the First Minister accept that waiting time standards exist for a reason; that every time they are missed, it puts lives at risk; and that his Government’s incompetence is destroying the NHS and failing staff and patients?

The First Minister

It is, of course—[

Interruption

.]

The Presiding Officer

We will suspend once more.

12:24 Meeting suspended.

12:24 On resuming—

I call the First Minister to respond.

The First Minister

Let me go back to the fact that the global pandemic has undoubtedly caused challenges for health services right across the UK, including in Labour-run Wales, Conservative-run England and, of course, here in Scotland, where we are in charge of the NHS.

This week’s statistics have shown the outcome of the record investment that we have made in the NHS, with, for example, head count in the NHS at record high levels.

We have made improvements in child and adolescent mental health services, which was referenced by Anas Sarwar. There are still improvements to be made and work to be done, but we continue to see sustained improvements in CAMHS waits. National performance against the 18-week CAMHS standard is the fourth highest since records began and the highest achieved since the quarter ending in March 2016. We have also seen increases in CAMHS staffing.

I end on the point that I made to Anas Sarwar and, indeed, to Douglas Ross a moment ago. We know that the NHS is struggling as a result of the global pandemic, which is why we are investing more than £19.5 billion in that most precious of institutions, our national health service. However, we are doing that in the face of a real-terms cut from the Conservative Government over the past couple of years.

What makes that situation even more difficult is that, when Labour’s general election co-ordinator is asked whether he disagrees with a single Conservative budget proposal, he says no—Labour has the same spending plans as the Conservatives. Whether it is Labour austerity or Conservative austerity, Westminster austerity will undoubtedly continue to impact and damage our public services. In the face of that, the Government makes no apologies for record investment in our NHS.

Children’s Participation in Sport (World Indoor Athletics Championships)

Brian Whittle (Conservative, South Scotland)

3. To ask the First Minister what action the Scottish Government can take to help encourage children into sport and cultivate future world-class athletes, in light of the recent victories of Josh Kerr and Jemma Reekie at the world indoor athletics championships in Glasgow. (S6F-02891)

Humza Yousaf (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Pollok)

I, too, offer huge congratulations to Josh and Jemma on their fantastic medal-winning performances. I also thank the team and all those involved in the world indoor athletics championships in Glasgow for the incredible work that they have done in putting on spectacular championships earlier this month.

We know that being physically active is one of the best things that all children and young people can do to help their social, physical and mental wellbeing. As is set out in the programme for government, we are working with sportscotland to ensure that active schools programmes are free for all children and young people by the end of this parliamentary session, which will provide them with more opportunities to take part in sport before, during and after school.

The investment by sportscotland helps to support key partners to deliver programmes that address the inequalities that exist in access to sport and physical activity. By increasing participation and creating a pathway for success at every level in all sports, we will ensure that anyone in Scotland can and does achieve their full potential.

Brian Whittle (Conservative, South Scotland)

I quickly point out that we do not just have Josh and Jemma; we also have previous world 1,500m champion Jake Wightman and Olympic medallist Laura Muir in the middle-distance events—or, to give middle-distance events their full title, proper sport. [

Laughter

.] I cannot wait for the Olympics.

As much as those athletes are inspirational to our young, budding sportspeople, those young people have to be able to access sport. School sport is on the decline and local authorities are closing so many of our public sports facilities, or, at least, are having to increase charges. Access to sport is on a steep decline. With the huge societal, community, health and educational benefits that sport brings, does the First Minister agree that cutting those opportunities for participation is a false economy? [

Interruption

.]

12:28 Meeting suspended.

12:29 On resuming—

The Presiding Officer

We resume once more, and I call Brian Whittle.

Brian Whittle (Conservative, South Scotland)

I have asked my question, Presiding Officer. I will ask it again, if you like.

The Presiding Officer

Smashing. That being the case, I call the First Minister.

The First Minister

In fairness, Presiding Officer, it was a good question. I do not think that Brian Whittle has to repeat it.

I know that Brian Whittle has had a long-standing interest, as an accomplished athlete. I was going to say “at one time”, but Mr Whittle continues to be an accomplished athlete of sorts. [

Laughter

.] I will stop digging and move on.

Brian Whittle was right to mention our many fantastic Scottish athletes, such as Jake Wightman, Laura Muir and Eilish McColgan, among others. I will give some reassurance to Brian Whittle, if I can. Across 2023-24, sportscotland is investing £36.7 million of Scottish Government and national lottery funding into Scottish governing bodies of sports. That represents an 8.6 per cent increase on the previous year. Brian Whittle’s point about local facilities is well made. That is why the Government is providing local government with record funding of more than £14 billion. That is a real-terms increase, despite the real-terms budget cuts that I mentioned.

I go back to the point that I have made throughout this First Minister’s question time. It would be far easier for local government to support our sports facilities if we were not facing a £500 million cut over two years to our budget, or a £1.3 billion cut to our capital budget. Any influence that Scottish Tories have—which seems very minimal indeed—to help their Conservative colleagues in the UK Government to make sure that they are spending on public services would be much appreciated.

Fulton MacGregor (Scottish National Party, Coatbridge and Chryston)

Having the opportunity to share in sporting victories can play an important part in encouraging children into sport. Does the First Minister agree that showing Scotland’s men’s and women’s football matches on free-to-air television could help to inspire the next generation of talent? What steps can be taken to open up those games to as wide an audience as possible?

The First Minister

I agree with Fulton MacGregor. We want to ensure that our children do not miss out on the opportunity of being inspired by seeing their footballing heroes play. It is not just children, though. We want to encourage everybody, at any stage of their life, to become physically active. Being able to watch sporting activity, particularly some very important football matches and tournaments coming up this year, could inspire a whole generation of boys and girls to take up the sport.

Broadcasting and the listed events regime are reserved, but we want a fairer and more representative service for Scotland. We continue to argue for the regime’s improvement to ensure that it better reflects and prioritises the interests of Scottish audiences. We will continue to advocate for the inclusion of national football matches, such as qualifiers for future world cups and European championships, to be included in the regime. We have written to the Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport on a number of occasions on the matter, but I am afraid that we have not received any reply.

United Kingdom Spring Statement

Kenneth Gibson (Scottish National Party, Cunninghame North)

4. To ask the First Minister what impact the spring statement will have on Scotland. (S6F-02887)

Humza Yousaf (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Pollok)

The

spring statement marks another failure by the UK Government to deliver funding for the people and public services of Scotland. The combined cut of national insurance across autumn and spring statements equates to the loss of up to £1.6 billion in potential consequentials for Scotland. That is £1.6 billion that we could be spending further on the national health service, education, transport, our justice services and all our public services. Health consequentials of £237 million are nowhere near enough, given the pressures that we face. They do not cover, for example, the recurring cost of the agenda for change pay deal. Based on the latest forecasts, our block grant for capital is now expected to reduce in real terms by £1.3 billion by 2027-28. The absence of investment in public services and infrastructure is nothing short of a betrayal of our public services by the UK Government.

Kenneth Gibson (Scottish National Party, Cunninghame North)

I thank the First Minister—[

Interruption

.]

The Presiding Officer

We will suspend once more.

12:33 Meeting suspended.

12:34 On resuming—

It is extremely regrettable that the opportunity of elected representatives to put questions to the First Minister is being disrupted today. Members will be aware of the steps that the Parliament has been required to take as a result of previous disruptions. I assure them that we will certainly review today’s events. It is absolutely essential in a democracy that members have the opportunity to put questions to the First Minister. [

Applause

.]

I call Kenneth Gibson.

Kenneth Gibson (Scottish National Party, Cunninghame North)

Thank you, Presiding Officer

, and I thank the First Minister for his answer.

The toxic Tory legacy of Boris Johnson, Liz Truss and Rishi Sunak is that, for the first time, per capita incomes at the end of this UK Parliament will be lower than at its start.

Does the First Minister agree with the Scottish Chambers of Commerce that the

“overriding impression”

is that the chancellor’s

“‘long-term plan’ to address our economic stagnation has been left for another day”?

Does he agree with Citizens Advice Scotland that

“there was a complete absence of the kind of support those on lower incomes need”?

Finally, does he agree with Douglas Ross, who said that he was

“deeply disappointed”

in the one-year extension of the windfall tax on the oil and gas industry and that it was

“a step in the wrong direction”?

The First Minister

I hesitate to say that I agree with Douglas Ross. However, on this occasion, when Douglas Ross said that the chancellor’s budget was going to harm Scotland and was bad for Scotland, it was probably the first time that he had ever been in tune with Scottish public opinion. It is so disastrous a betrayal of workers in the north-east that, apparently, Douglas Ross threatened to resign, but he is still sitting here. I wonder whether he sold out the north-east for a peerage or to become a privy councillor. We do not know, but I am sure that, in time, we will find out.

Kenneth Gibson is absolutely right. Over more than 14 years of economic mismanagement, the Tories have imposed on this country a disastrous Brexit that we did not vote for, and, as a Government that we did not elect, they have ushered in a cost of living crisis. For the first time on record, as Kenneth Gibson rightly says, the economy is set to be smaller in real terms per capita at the time of the next general election than it was at the previous election.

Astonishingly, Labour does not oppose a single measure in the budget. So, whether it is run by Labour or Conservatives, we know that Westminster does not work for Scotland. [

Interruption

.]

The Presiding Officer

We will have a brief suspension.

12:37 Meeting suspended.

12:37 On resuming—

I call Liz Smith.

Elizabeth Smith (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

The chancellor’s budget prioritised improving public sector output and efficiency, with, for example, £3 billion going to the national health service to update information technology, streamline data and utilise artificial intelligence. When will we see similar changes in Scotland through public sector reform, as the Finance and Public Administration Committee has been calling for?

The First Minister

“

Brave” is one word to describe Liz Smith’s intervention, because we will not see a single penny of that investment this year or in the next financial year. The UK Government has kicked that investment into the long grass, when her party will be out of power—and quite rightly so.

When it comes to the priorities of the Conservative UK Government, I note that it has prioritised a tax cut for Liz Smith and other higher earners to the tune of £1,500, while at the same time slashing public spending to the bone. That is the priority of the Conservative Party. Apparently, it is also the priority of the Labour Party, which does not oppose a single measure in the Conservatives’ budget. Is it any wonder that people in Scotland know that Westminster does not work for Scotland and that only the Scottish National Party will stand up for this country?

Community Deer Management

Sharon Dowey (Conservative, South Scotland)

5. To ask the First Minister what action the Scottish Government is taking to promote community deer management on publicly owned land. (S6F-02896)

Humza Yousaf (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Pollok)

Through a pioneering pilot project, NatureScot has been supporting community deer stalking at Creag Meagaidh national nature reserve. The initiative gives people who live nearby the opportunity to learn deer management skills, as well as giving them access to the reserve—when they are fully trained and qualified—to shoot deer in season for their own consumption. Crown Estate Scotland also supports access to land for deer management by letting its shooting rights to local shooting associations and syndicates.

Community deer management models are common in many European countries, and the Scottish Government’s—[

Interruption

.]

The Presiding Officer

We will have a brief suspension.

12:40 Meeting suspended.

12:40 On resuming—

We can resume. I call the First Minister.

The First Minister

These constant interruptions are deeply frustrating, but the issues of food security and poverty are very important to the Government that I lead. It is up to protesters to decide where they protest, but I say gently to them that I think that they are protesting at the wrong Parliament, because, of course, it is Westminster austerity that is causing such issues.

The Presiding Officer

First Minister, I would be grateful if you could address Sharon Dowey’s question.

The First Minister

As far as

the issue at hand is concerned, I will not repeat the full answer, but I will say that community deer management models are common in many European countries, and the Scottish Government’s deer board, which met on Monday, discussed the findings from Creag Meagaidh. We want to ensure that local communities reap the benefits as we step up deer management in Scotland to meet our climate and our nature aims.

Sharon Dowey (Conservative, South Scotland)

Community-integrated deer management has numerous benefits. It builds resilience and opportunities in local communities, reduces the burden of large deer contracts on the taxpayer and helps to protect the environment across areas such as the Carrick forest in Ayrshire. Local wild venison is a fantastic sustainable food source to be harvested, processed and consumed, which we must champion. I note the work of the British Association for Shooting and Conservation and the Country Food Trust, which are in Parliament this week.

Does the First Minister agree that the Scottish Government must do more work with rural stakeholders such as BASC to bolster Scotland’s venison potential?

The First Minister

I agree with a lot of what Sharon Dowey has said. We know that effective deer management can help to tackle the twin climate and biodiversity crises. We want local communities to benefit from deer management. They can benefit not only from the socioeconomic opportunities that it offers, but—as Sharon Dowey rightly said—from venison as a healthy and nutritious food source.

I am more than happy to ensure that the cabinet secretary writes to Sharon Dowey with details of how we are supporting effective deer management. I am sure that Sharon Dowey is aware of this, but I make the point that we intend to introduce legislation that will ensure that we have effective deer management in the context of the twin climate and biodiversity crises. In fact, the consultation will remain open until 29 March. We will continue to engage with rural stakeholders, including BASC and others, to ensure effective deer management for Scotland.

Alasdair Allan (Scottish National Party, Na h-Eileanan an Iar)

Can the First Minister say whether the Scottish Government will give consideration to replicating pilots such as the one that has been undertaken at Creag Meagaidh on areas of publicly owned land in the crofting counties to allow crofters to—subject to their receiving the proper training—take in-season deer for their own consumption or, potentially, sell it on, thereby incentivising their participation in what is a vital strand of nature restoration?

The First Minister

That

suggestion is certainly worthy of consideration. As I have said, it is important that local communities across Scotland are able to benefit from deer management, not only through the socioeconomic opportunities that it offers, but because of the fact that venison is a healthy and nutritious food source.

Given the success of the Creag Meagaidh pilot project, I am keen that we support more community-led deer management schemes. I know that the Minister for Green Skills, Circular Economy and Biodiversity is looking at what more can be done to establish more schemes, and that she would be happy to discuss the matter in more detail with the member.

Gender-based Violence

Rona Mackay (Scottish National Party, Strathkelvin and Bearsden)

6. To ask the First Minister, in light of international women’s day on 8 March, what steps the Scottish Government is taking to tackle gender-based violence. (S6F-02905)

Humza Yousaf (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Pollok)

Over the past week, there has rightly been a sharp focus on the violence that women and girls face, predominantly at the hands of men. Collectively, we must stand against that, and we must tackle the societal attitudes and root out the toxic behaviours that underpin those actions that lead to such abuse and violence against women. The Government is doing that through our equally safe strategy, which focuses on early intervention, prevention, and support services, but, of course, we want to go further and do more.

We also want to transform how our justice system responds to sexual violence to ensure that women and girls can have confidence in a justice system that will effectively hold perpetrators to account and, crucially, will not retraumatise women who have suffered such abuse. That is why our Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill is so important and can play a major role in supporting survivors and victims of gender-based violence.

Rona Mackay (Scottish National Party, Strathkelvin and Bearsden)

When speaking about the Government’s proposal for a sexual offences court, Scotland’s second-highest judge, Lady Dorrian, told the Criminal Justice Committee:

“the fact is that there is no option to do nothing. Either you embed this in a new culture in a court of uniform practice across the country, or you try to embed it piecemeal”—[

Official Report, Criminal Justice Committee,

10 January 2024; c 5.]

Will proposals such as the one for a specialist court give women and girls confidence in our justice system and improve the experience of complainers?

The First Minister

Absolutely. Establishing the sexual offences court can, alongside the raft of other measures contained in the

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill

that are intended to improve victims’ experiences

, play a crucial role in building the confidence of women and girls in our justice system.

Lady Dorrian is absolutely right: doing nothing is simply not an option that anyone in this chamber can or should consider. Piecemeal reform will fail to deliver the cultural changes that we so desperately need. Those changes in culture, processes and practice are clearly necessary. It is only by systematic reform of our court system, including the creation of a sexual offences court, that we can embed a culture that supports victims and survivors of sexual offences and gives them confidence that they will be treated with dignity and respect within a system that effectively holds perpetrators to account. I encourage everyone here to support the important proposals contained within the bill.

Pauline McNeill (Labour, Glasgow)

Image-based abuse often involves girls being coerced into creating or sharing nude images, which are then shared with someone else without those girls’ consent. A report by Revealing Reality, a think tank funded by the Home Office, found that that was a particular problem for school pupils and that, for many boys, sharing nude images without consent was seen as a way of gaining respect from their male peers. The report also found that boys often do not understand that what they are doing is abusive.

I acknowledge the Scottish Government’s work in this area by cabinet secretary Jenny Gilruth and by the minister Siobhian Brown. Would the First Minister consider conducting research not only on the impact that that abuse has on girls but on its extent, so that we can be clear about what exactly we are trying to tackle?

The First Minister

I am happy to consider Pauline McNeill’s suggestions and I pay tribute to her long track record of standing up in Parliament to tackle violence against women and girls.

The Abusive Behaviour and Sexual Harm (Scotland) Act 2016 makes the sharing of intimate images without consent a criminal offence, and a wide range of laws relates to image-based sexual abuse. I agree with Pauline McNeill that this is not about just legislation, although that is important—[

Interruption

.]

The Presiding Officer

We will suspend briefly.

12:48 Meeting suspended.

12:48 On resuming—

First Minister.

The First Minister

I will not repeat all that I have said already.

I know that Pauline McNeill recognises the importance of legislation. She also makes an important point about understanding the nature and extent of the problem, so that we can deal with it.

I was pleased to visit Moffat academy earlier this week with the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills to launch our guidance on gender-based violence in schools, which was published this week. It makes it clear that the sharing of sexual images is unacceptable, while also giving schools guidance, and the appropriate tools, to address such issues. Indeed, one project that we heard about while at Moffat academy was the mentors in violence prevention programme, which empowers older pupils to talk to younger ones about the importance of issues such as consent.

I will continue the work on positive masculinity that I am leading, so that we can work collectively with boys and young men to eradicate the toxic behaviours that are far too prevalent in our society. I look forward to continuing work with Pauline McNeill and members from across the chamber, as we work together to tackle gender-based violence.

Child Neurodevelopmental Assessment (Waiting Times)

Colin Smyth (Labour, South Scotland)

7. To ask the First Minister what action the Scottish Government is taking to reduce waiting times for children referred for a neurodevelopmental assessment. (S6F-02904)

Humza Yousaf (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Pollok)

While we know that there is increasing demand for neurodevelopmental support and assessments, we expect children to receive appropriate support as soon as possible. In 2021, we published a national neurodevelopmental specification, which aims to improve the quality of care for children, young people and their families. As the member might know, the specification outlines seven standards for service providers, which have been developed with children, families and key partners and are underpinned by the fact that support should be in place when children need it, instead of its being dependent on a formal diagnosis. The support, which is likely to be community based, should be quickly and easily accessible.

We continue to work with health boards and local authorities to enhance support for neurodivergent children and young people, including on how quickly they can access the support that I have mentioned. We provided more than £1 million to support five pilots to implement targeted aspects of the specification, and the learning from that will support its wider implementation right across the country.

Colin Smyth (Labour, South Scotland)

The First Minister is correct: the Government set a standard of care in September 2021. That standard says that children and young people who are referred for a neurodevelopmental assessment should have an initial appointment within no more than four weeks. At that time, my constituent, who was just 10 years old, had been on the waiting list with NHS Lanarkshire for a year. She is now 13 years old; she has been on that waiting list for three and a half years and still has no appointment. Her mum told me:

“My daughter has spent a quarter of her life on a waiting list and no one seems to care.”

Why does no one care? Why, on Humza Yousaf’s watch as health secretary and now as First Minister, have that wee girl and countless others had to wait nearly four years just to receive an assessment, never mind any care that they might need?

The First Minister

Colin Smyth,

understandably, did not mention the name of the individual constituent. If she is the one that he has written to the health secretary about, we have responded to him. My officials have been in touch with the health board, which says that it will be contacting the family imminently. Colin Smyth has been given an update, if his constituent is the one that I believe her to be.

We will continue to work with the health board, because I fully accept, without any equivocation, Colin Smyth’s point that waiting three and a half or almost four years is simply not acceptable. That is why we are providing funding to our health service and our health boards in relation to tackling some of these issues and why we have continued over the past few years to prioritise mental health funding to record levels under the Scottish National Party Government.

If the member wants further information about his constituent’s case, he is more than welcome to write back to the Cabinet Secretary for NHS Recovery, Health and Social Care. However, my officials have contacted NHS Lanarkshire and asked for an immediate update. [

Interruption

.]

The Presiding Officer

We will suspend briefly.

12:53 Meeting suspended.

12:53 On resuming—

First Minister.

The First Minister

As I have said, my

officials have been in touch with NHS Lanarkshire, and we hope that there will be some progress for the particular family very soon. I am happy to continue to liaise with Colin Smyth on his constituent’s case.

Karen Adam (Scottish National Party, Banffshire and Buchan Coast)

Diagnosis is an important step on the journey of people seeking support for the diverse range of conditions that fall under the umbrella of neurodivergence, but many other steps come after it. Can the First Minister provide any further information on the steps that the Scottish Government is taking to champion the rights of neurodivergent people?

The First Minister

The Scottish Government is committed to championing the rights of neurodivergent people, and I am grateful to Karen Adam for raising the issue. Again, she has a track record of raising such issues in the chamber. We are consulting on the proposed learning disabilities, autism and neurodivergence bill, which will aim to ensure that the rights of neurodivergent people, including autistic people and people with learning disabilities, are respected, protected and—crucially—championed. Karen Adam will be aware of the consultation on that bill, which will run to 21 April this year.

In addition, the Scottish Government and the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, supported by Inspiring Scotland, have partnered with people with lived experience and other stakeholders to establish a new leadership and engagement framework that will put people’s voices and experiences firmly at its heart.

Rachael Hamilton (Conservative, Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire)

Many children coped with the challenges of the pandemic, but for those who were already struggling with mental ill health, the impacts of lockdowns and lost schooling are likely to have made their conditions worse. Shockingly, just 40 per cent of young people referred to child and adolescent mental health services in the Borders started treatment within the 18-week target. I remind the First Minister that his own target is for 90 per cent of such patients to be treated within 18 weeks. There should be no more lame excuses. Will his Government get to grips with this scandalous CAMHS crisis now?

The First Minister

There is no doubt about the impacts of the pandemic, not only on young people’s mental health, which Rachael Hamilton has rightly pointed out, but on the demand on our health services.

That is why, in an earlier answer, I referenced the latest CAMHS statistics, which show that there is room for improvement but that we are seeing a recovery in our services. The figures show that this Government is continuing to ensure that it makes significant investment not only in vital CAMHS services and their staffing but in pre-crisis intervention work. That is why we are providing local authorities with £15 million per annum to fund community-based mental health support. According to local authority reports, more than 58,000 children, young people and their families accessed such support in the first half of 2023.

We will continue to invest in our NHS, through our record investment of more than £19.5 billion, and we will continue to make progress on the journey of recovery that we are firmly on.

The Presiding Officer

Thank you, First Minister.

Unfortunately, the opportunity for more elected members to represent their constituents by putting questions to the First Minister has been disrupted once again. I think that we would all agree that the principle of this Parliament’s being open and accessible is extremely important. Visitors are very welcome to attend to see their elected representatives at work, but not to disrupt that work. I advise colleagues that the Parliament will work with security colleagues and Police Scotland and will take any further action that is required in that regard.

That concludes First Minister’s question time. We will suspend briefly to allow those in the chamber and the public gallery to leave.

12:57 Meeting suspended.

12:59 On resuming—

Mossmorran (Just Transition)

Annabelle Ewing (Scottish National Party, Cowdenbeath)

I ask members of the public who have been visiting to hear our proceedings this lunchtime to leave the gallery quietly and quickly, please, because we are about to continue our business. I would appreciate your co-operation. Thank you very much indeed.

We move to the next item of business, which is a members’ business debate on motion S6M-11697, in the name of Mark Ruskell, on a site-specific just transition for Mossmorran. The debate will be concluded without any question being put.

Motion debated,

That the Parliament understands that the Mossmorran petrochemical site, in the Mid Scotland and Fife region, which comprises of Shell’s Natural Gas Liquids (NGL) Plant and ExxonMobil’s Fife Ethylene Plant, is responsible for nearly 10% of Scotland’s industrial emissions; notes the view that limiting global temperature increases to 1.5°C and well below 2°C, in line with the Paris Agreement, will require rapid and sustained reductions in emissions across all sectors; understands that industry is the second-highest emitting sector in Scotland, and notes the view that a worker-led just transition for the sector is essential for reaching Scotland’s ambition to achieve net zero by 2045; notes the view that industrial decarbonisation plans cannot omit emissions from Mossmorran, and that a decarbonisation pathway for the site needs to be identified collaboratively with operators, workers, unions, and local and national governments at the earliest opportunity; understands that the two Mossmorran plants directly employ approximately 250 workers, and periodically many more through short-term maintenance contracts, and notes the belief that the process of just transition for Scotland’s industrial sites needs to be worker-led and delivered in a way that leaves nobody behind.

Mark Ruskell (Green, Mid Scotland and Fife)

I thank members who have signed the motion and who are joining me in the chamber to debate the future of the Mossmorran petrochemical site. I have been working on the issue since being re-elected to Parliament in 2016, initially focusing on the noise pollution caused by flaring affecting neighbouring communities, then moving on to the health and safety risks experienced by workers. Now, I am working on the prospect of delivering a just transition for the site. I welcome the work of other members on the issue, including yourself, Deputy Presiding Officer, in your role as the constituency MSP.

The latest research into North Sea oil and gas that was commissioned by the Scottish Government shows a rapidly declining basin. The decline in fossil fuel reserves is irrefutable, and our choice now is whether we accept a slow withering of skills and expertise or grasp the opportunity to safeguard workers’ jobs and maximise the growth of employment opportunities in both renewables and industrial decarbonisation. As the secretary-general of the United Nations, António Guterres, stated, we need

“climate action on all fronts — everything, everywhere, all at once.”

We do not have the luxury of focusing on just one region or just one industrial site. Workers across Scotland, including at Mossmorran, deserve the assurance that their jobs, too, will be safeguarded in our transition to net zero.

Any credible plan for industrial decarbonisation in Scotland must tackle emissions at Mossmorran. The two plants there directly employ approximately 250 workers, and many other workers are employed on a short-term basis from other parts of Scotland and overseas. The United Kingdom Climate Change Committee reported that the industry is the second-highest emitting sector in Scotland, with the Mossmorran site, operated by Shell and ExxonMobil, being responsible for nearly 10 per cent of Scotland’s total climate change emissions.

In 2022, I commissioned Transition Economics to produce a report on Mossmorran, which considered decarbonisation pathways for the site. Those included carbon capture and storage, blue hydrogen and bioethanol. All the decarbonisation options had risks and trade-offs, but it was clear that a fairer, greener future was possible for Mossmorran, its workers and the local community. The report concluded that planning for the net zero future of the site needed to begin as quickly as possible, with operators, workers, unions and Governments brought together around the table.

In October last year I organised a summit facilitated by Dr Daria Shapovalova, co-ordinator of the just transition lab at the University of Aberdeen. That brought together workers, unions, non-governmental organisations and the just transition commissioners in Lochgelly to start the conversation. I wanted to understand what their priorities were for the just transition plan at Mossmorran. All the participants called for a meaningful transition for the site, to be led first and foremost by workers and properly funded by both industry and Government. They cautioned against “just transition” being used as an empty slogan and warned us about what might happen if there was a further delay to real, tangible actions. The workers and unions highlighted the urgency of engaging with operators to collaborate on the development and delivery of a plan for the site.

The operators of the Mossmorran plant, Shell and ExxonMobil, are among the world’s largest oil and gas operators, reporting profits in the billions just last month, but we have not yet seen from them the level of commitment needed to make a genuine transition at Mossmorran happen. The operators have signed up to the Acorn carbon capture and storage cluster, and we are awaiting progress on the bid in track 2 that could allow Grangemouth and Mossmorran to feed in. Questions remain about the effectiveness of CCS, but if the project can meet the higher standards for capture, it could provide a major part of the decarbonisation pathway.

However, in a meeting that I held with both operators shortly after that first summit, it was clear that there was a lack of communication between them and the workforce on those matters. Where does Mossmorran sit in their global portfolios of sites awaiting CCS and other investments? What opportunities would there be for the workforce in skills development or retraining under such a plan? So many questions remain unanswered, and the operators still need to convince the workforce and the community that decarbonisation will actually happen.

Just this week, ExxonMobil’s chief executive blamed the public for the failure to tackle the climate emergency and claimed that ExxonMobil and other oil and gas giants

“have opportunities to make fuels with lower carbon in it, but people aren’t willing to spend the money to do that.”

However, it is painfully obvious to me that it is those who make the mega profits from oil and gas who are unwilling to spend enough of them on the transition to a greener future that they have to make.

We had plans to host the second summit tomorrow. It would have welcomed all the participants from our initial summit as well as the site operators, Fife Council and national Governments. However, despite the welcome interest from the minister and Government officials in attending the summit, the site operators—ExxonMobil and Shell—have declined our invitation. Their decision not to come to the table is disappointing. How can we have faith that private companies will invest in the just transition that we so desperately need if they fail to do the bare minimum and join the conversation?

What we have seen recently at Grangemouth should be enough of a warning to us all. We cannot sit on our hands. The future of Mossmorran cannot be decided behind closed doors; it needs to be planned early and openly.

Earlier this week, we agreed that we will go ahead with another summit later this year. We will keep working with Unite the union, the GMB, just transition commissioners and the Scottish Trades Union Congress to ensure that everyone is around the table. I publicly extend an invitation again to the minister, other MSPs and the two site operators to come and be part of that conversation.

The Government’s transition work at Grangemouth has been welcome, but it must be accelerated to other sites across Scotland where emissions are vast and the biggest single steps towards net zero must be made. We have no time to waste. It is our duty to map out the alternative future for sites such as Mossmorran, and we must do so in a fair and just manner that leaves no workers or local communities behind. Inaction is not an option. I will continue to take that duty seriously, and I hope that many members who are joining me in the chamber will do the same.

David Torrance (Scottish National Party, Kirkcaldy)

I thank Mark Ruskell for bringing the motion to the chamber to let us discuss an issue that is of paramount importance to our country, our environment and our future.

The Mossmorran petrochemical site is a significant contributor to Scotland’s industrial emissions—it accounts for nearly 10 per cent of our national total. That figure is not just a statistic; it is a call for urgent action in our journey towards a sustainable and resilient Scotland.

The Paris agreement, which aims to limit global temperature increases to well below 2°C, and to 1.5°C, is not merely an international obligation; it is a moral imperative for Scotland. To meet those ambitious goals, rapid and sustained reductions in emissions across all sectors, including the industry in question, are non-negotiable. As the second-highest emitting sector in our country, the industrial sector’s transformation is not just necessary—it is inevitable.

At the heart of the transformation is the Mossmorran site. That site, which is located just outside my constituency, embodies our industrial strengths and our environmental challenges. The path forward is clear. We must identify a decarbonised pathway for Mossmorran—one that is developed collaboratively with operators, workers, unions and local and national Government. That pathway is not just about reducing emissions; it is about setting a precedent for how industrial Scotland adapts to the realities of the climate emergency.

The concept of a just transition is central to this discussion. It is a principle that ensures that the shift towards a low-carbon economy is fair and inclusive and leaves no one behind. For the workers at Mossmorran and, indeed, workers across Fife and Scotland’s industrial sector, that transition is not just a challenge; it is an opportunity for sustainable jobs, for innovation, and for a healthier environment and healthier communities.

With its 250 direct employees and many more people who are engaged through short-term maintenance contracts, the Mossmorran site stands as a microcosm of the broader challenges that our industrial workforce faces with decarbonisation. Those workers are not mere cogs in the industrial machine; they are skilled and dedicated individuals whose knowledge and expertise are invaluable assets to our journey towards net zero. That is why I very much welcome the announcement that the Scottish Government will boost the just transition fund by an extra £25 million to ensure a fair and just transition for the energy sector.

As many will know, my Kirkcaldy constituency and the surrounding areas in Fife have seen great industrial, economic and societal changes over the past century. The history of that area is deeply interwoven with the coal-mining industry and, for better or worse, we are familiar with the challenges that inevitably arise with changes in the energy landscape.

The legacy of the closure of the mines in Kirkcaldy and throughout Scotland is well known. The blow was not just economic but cultural and social. It left behind a legacy of unemployment and social challenges, and a community grappling with its identity and future. Therefore, the process of transition to low-carbon operations at Mossmorran, as at all other industrial sites in Scotland, must be led by those who know it best: the workers. A worker-led transition is the only way to ensure that the move to green jobs is done in a way that respects the dignity, expertise and needs of our workforce.

That transition will not be easy. It requires substantial investment not just in technology but in people. As a former mechanical engineer in the oil and gas industry, I am acutely aware of the importance of training and reskilling programmes—which must be at the heart of our just transition strategy—in ensuring that Scotland’s workforce is ready to meet the demands of a low-carbon economy. In addition, we must ensure that the new green jobs are secure, well paid and accessible to all—in particular, to those who are currently employed in high-emission industries.

The role of collaboration in the process cannot be overstated. The decarbonisation of Mossmorran and the industrial sector more broadly must be a joint effort between government, industry, workers and the community. Each stakeholder brings unique insights and resources to the table, making our collective action stronger and more effective.

It is also crucial to remember the communities that live in the shadow of Mossmorran. Fife, with its rich history and vibrant community, finds itself at the forefront of Scotland’s journey towards a greener future. Any transition plans must include measures to protect those communities from environmental and health impacts, so that they, too, benefit from Scotland’s green transformation.

The journey towards net zero in Scotland by 2045 is filled with challenges but also with unparalleled opportunities. The decarbonisation of Mossmorran represents a crucial step in that journey, serving as a blueprint for how we can transform Scotland’s industry and landscape in a way that is sustainable, equitable and just.

Douglas Lumsden (Conservative, North East Scotland)

I thank Mark Ruskell for bringing the debate to the chamber. It is an important debate, because, as we have seen from the announcement that was made on Grangemouth, the facilities will not be around forever. The planning process for what is next for the workforce and the local area needs to take place now, so that, in theory, we can have a smooth transition from one industry to the next.

I start by thanking the workforce of Mossmorran. The plant plays a key role in meeting the existing UK energy needs, given that 80 per cent of UK homes still rely on natural gas to keep them warm. However, the work at Mossmorran goes towards not just heating but the production of tyres, deodorants, cooking fuel, car windscreens, food packaging, detergents and anaesthetic for medical procedures. We therefore have much to be thankful for.

That demonstrates why having sites such as Mossmorran in our oil and gas industry is so incredibly important. However, that is about not just the production of vital goods but the highly skilled, well-paid jobs that contribute to local economies.

I think that everyone in the chamber agrees that we need to stop burning fossil fuels, and that will take time. What we sometimes disagree on is how we get there. Mark Ruskell takes a hard stance against any new licences in the North Sea. That position is shared by Labour and the SNP. However, I feel that, while there is still a demand, we should focus on reducing that demand and on ensuring that our consumption of oil and gas products is done in a way that causes least harm to the environment.

That is why it is important to note the work that Shell, especially, has done to decarbonise the yard—albeit that I am sure that it can go further. The yard will always be a large consumer of energy and producer of emissions, so doing more to reduce those emissions will impact significantly on Scotland’s overall emissions. Mark Ruskell made a good point about bringing together all the players to develop a decarbonisation pathway.

I have not been to Mossmorran, but I met Petroineos at Grangemouth and was impressed by how much work it was doing on decarbonisation—it had a huge programme, with huge investment to match. Maybe Mossmorran has the same. If so, that is great, but maybe those plans should be shared more widely. It is strange that Shell and ExxonMobil are not engaging in the process that Mark Ruskell set out.

Mr Ruskell was also right to highlight the contractor workforce in his motion. Too often, it is only the direct workforce that is taken into account when planning for a site’s future, but we need to consider the wider economic impact of a facility. That goes even further than the contractors to the indirectly related jobs in nearby communities—taxi drivers, hairdressers, bartenders and teachers—which have to be taken into account when we look at a transition to make sure that no one is left behind.

A Unite the union survey of workers in Grangemouth showed that only 3 per cent of the workers expressed confidence in the Government’s just transition plans for oil and gas workers, so there is clearly more that can be done. It will be good to hear from the minister what discussions the Government has had with Shell and ExxonMobil about the future of those facilities. In the case of Grangemouth, it appears that the Government was warned about what was coming by Petroineos but failed to get ahead of the game and start the planning process for the workforce earlier.

In conclusion, I agree with Mark Ruskell that planning for the future of Mossmorran and the community that depends on it must start now. I hope that that can be done in a cross-party, consensual way, with everyone at the table. We owe it to the community and the workers of Mossmorran to ensure that there is a safe economic future. I look forward to hearing from the Government what progress has been made to date.

Alex Rowley (Labour, Mid Scotland and Fife)

I congratulate Mark Ruskell on securing the debate. Ultimately, I believe that the debate should focus less on the specific Mossmorran site and more on a Scotland-wide—indeed, a UK-wide—approach to decarbonisation and the just transition. Put simply, we will not achieve the just transition that Scotland needs if we continue to approach the issue on a case-by-case, site-specific basis, without greater effort to take in the big picture. Policy without strategy will lead only to failure, and I am afraid that policy without strategy and action often seems to be the order of the day.

It is clear that, if we are to meet our climate targets in Scotland, we need both the Scottish and UK Governments to work together with a joint focus, a joined-up strategy and the clarity and consistency that will secure the investment that is needed to reach those goals. There also needs to be further clarity on what is meant by a just transition. In my discussions with trade unions and employers, whether they are in the oil and gas sector or the renewables sector, they have told me that the greatest challenge that they now face is the massive shortage of skilled labour across all sectors. This week, I was in Methil, where it is hoped that a lot of work can be done in the renewables sector, but the ability to get skilled labour is a massive issue there. Whether you are a steel welder in Mossmorran or a welder in Methil, there will be major difficulties if we cannot get the welders or the technicians.

It seems to me that, in many of the companies that I have spoken to, the idea of decarbonisation and a just transition has not been met with much resistance. However, they are clear that they are relying on the Scottish Government and the UK Government to make the just transition happen. Where there is resistance, I strongly believe that it stems from concerns that the Scottish and UK Governments are not driving the progress that is necessary to make the just transition feasible, despite both Governments paying a lot of lip service to and espousing their green credentials.

I regularly speak to businesses and trade unions that are involved in the sectors that are crucial to the just transition. Unless we move away from the current piecemeal approach, in which bits of policy take the place of long-term strategy, and give the just transition the attention and resources that it demands, businesses cannot plan for the future. The Just Transition Partnership summarised the issues clearly.

Mark Ruskell (Green, Mid Scotland and Fife)

I certainly do not disagree with Alex Rowley’s argument that we need an industrial strategy that binds together the two Governments in their work in Scotland with industry. However, does he accept that we need a plan for decarbonising the ethylene production site at Mossmorran, as well as a wider industrial strategy that includes Scotland? Does he accept that that plan has to come from the workers and those who have spent their careers operating the site? They understand the issues intricately, and they know what skills will be required for the transition and what the technical solutions might be.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

I can give you the time back, Mr Rowley.

Alex Rowley (Labour, Mid Scotland and Fife)

It is i

nteresting to hear what the workers I have spoken to are really frightened of. Given the age range in many workforces in the sector, workers are frightened that, when they retire, the skills will go with them. They want a clear industrial strategy that will give young people the opportunities to get those skills and take them forward. The skills agenda and the industrial strategy are key to that, but there has to be certainty from the Scottish and UK Governments about what investment will be made. I will come on to Mark Ruskell’s paper, which sets out some solutions.

The Scottish Government should not start from the assumption that a just transition will just happen one way or another. Much more work needs to be done before we can start to look at site-specific plans, which would do little more than shift away from the Government the responsibility for achieving a just transition.

The Government must play its part if we are to succeed. For example, carbon capture and storage and the use of hydrogen as an energy source have not been deployed swiftly enough. Those two elements are instrumental in the report that Mark Ruskell commissioned.

Companies across the UK are battling over a smaller pool of the skilled labour that needs to be in place if we are to make the just transition happen. Ultimately, contradictions will arise when there is no unifying strategy to rely on. Ministers are considering an application for a new gas plant at Peterhead, which seems to fly in the face of what the Scottish Government has said about achieving net zero by 2045 and which was described at the end of last year as a climate disaster. How does that proposal fit into the just transition that we all say that we desire?

I am deeply passionate about the issue and I want to avoid a climate disaster, so I believe that we have to take action. If we are serious about achieving our climate goals, it is crucial that the Scottish Government, working with the UK Government, gives the subject the time, attention and clarity that are needed.

Gillian Martin (Scottish National Party, Aberdeenshire East)

Like everyone else, I thank Mark Ruskell for bringing the debate to the chamber. We have heard insightful and encouraging contributions on the Mossmorran industrial site—not just from Mark Ruskell, who has worked on the issue over the years, as he outlined, but from all members who have spoken today.

I wish that we could have such debates more often. I am finding it difficult to disagree with anything that anyone has said, because we have a shared goal. The just transition of our high-carbon industries needs political consensus, so we all need to get our shoulders behind the wheel and have a shared vision of what we want to achieve. Vast economic opportunities are out there for Scotland if we do that, but there will be economic peril if we do not do that. I am pleased with how the debate has gone, and I hope that such an approach continues into other discussions about the subject.

It is critical to secure a truly just transition for Mossmorran and to work on that with all relevant stakeholders. Everyone has to be in the room—Mark Ruskell is absolutely right about that.

Members are more than familiar with the important contribution that the Mossmorran site makes to the local economy. Douglas Lumsden mentioned that he has never been there; I am going there in the middle of this month, but I also went there in my role before politics, when I was helping Shell to make safety videos. I am aware of how central the site is to the local economy.

Douglas Lumsden made a good point about the wider economic impact. It is not just about the workers at the plant—to whom I pay tribute—but about the wider community. A just transition is never just about one site but is about the impact on the wider community.

It has been mentioned that Mossmorran has a critical role to play in the Scottish cluster and in carbon capture, usage and storage. However, other potential activities could transition the plant, and I am keen to discuss them in detail when I meet ExxonMobil and Shell at Mossmorran later this month.

The Government is committed to achieving a just transition to net zero emissions by 2045. Members know that I was only recently given responsibility for a just transition as well as for energy and fair work. I was delighted to see all those things coming together, because the just transition has been inextricable from my portfolio as energy minister since March last year. Like Alex Rowley, I am passionate about the subject. I come from the north-east, where there has to be a just transition. I recognise that other members across Scotland have key sites in high-carbon sectors that need attention similar to that given to North Sea oil and gas.

I recognise that Mossmorran is responsible for 8.4 per cent of Scotland’s industrial emissions, so we have to consider how to reduce the emissions of the plant as it operates right now. A great deal of work and investment have gone into that already, but we also need to look to the future. For example, there is less demand for plastic packaging. That is driven by consumers and will have a knock-on effect on new operations for Mossmorran.

Alex Rowley talked about being in Methil. I imagine that he was at Harland and Wolff—in fact, I know that he was, because the company told me; I am not psychic. At Harland and Wolff, there is a really interesting situation. The plant is poised and ready to make the jackets for turbines in the North Sea.

Harland and Wolff has a tremendous number of apprentices working with it. I pay tribute to the work of Forth Valley College and Fife College in upskilling the young workforce. It is absolutely right that we utilise the existing workforce’s skills and experience in all our high-emitting industrial sites to help to upskill young people when they come in.

David Torrance (Scottish National Party, Kirkcaldy)

The H100 Fife project, which is in my constituency, is a great example of how hydrogen will be used for heating our homes, which is one of the largest contributors to greenhouse gas emissions. Does the minister agree that the partnership between Fife College and Scotland Gas Networks in training the new generation of engineers in hydrogen is a great example that should be replicated across Scotland?

Gillian Martin (Scottish National Party, Aberdeenshire East)

I visited H100 in the summer of last year. It is a tremendously exciting project. SGN is working well with the local community in Methil. I know that it has had the amount of subscribers to be part of the project that it hoped for. That is an example of a company working in a community not only to facilitate a just transition but to spread the benefits of that transition among the community. I thank David Torrance for mentioning the project.

David Torrance pointed to not only the importance but the opportunities of reducing emissions from our industries. We cannot ignore those opportunities. That is what a just transition is about. It is sometimes talked about in negative terms, but we have to start talking about it in positive terms. Everything is there for the taking. That is why the UK Government and the Scottish Government have to work together and make investment where it is needed.

I point to some of the investment that we have made. The Scottish industrial energy transformation fund offers match funding for targeted projects. To date, £16 million has been offered in grants as part of a £43 million investment across 27 projects. However, there is more to be done. We have £500 million of just transition money for the north-east, but we also have to look at what we can do to spread the learning from what is happening there. We also need clarity on when the Scottish cluster CCUS project will be given the status that is required for people to make investment decisions.

Douglas Lumsden (Conservative, North East Scotland)

The minister mentioned the £500 million just transition fund for the north-east, which is good for a north-east MSP, but I guess that other people who are watching might think, “What about my area?” or, “What about Mossmorran?” What can the Government do to help other areas, not just the north-east?

Gillian Martin (Scottish National Party, Aberdeenshire East)

T

here is a great deal that we can do. The green industrial strategy, which will be rolled out this summer, will address that point. We have to recognise that it is not just in the north-east where there are opportunities, as well as some difficulties if we do not get the just transition right for oil and gas workers. On the wider community, the oil and gas workers in the north-east are linked to the petrochemical workers in Grangemouth and Mossmorran. They are all part of the same sector, so we have to make sure that we include all of them.

Grangemouth has been mentioned. We are working with partners in the Grangemouth future industry board to develop a just transition plan for the industrial cluster that is located there. I want to explain why we are prioritising that at the moment. Grangemouth is a significantly larger cluster and is home to multiple industrial operators. It is our largest port and has significant links to the transport sector. Also, as we all know, decisions are being made about the future of the refinery there.

There will be learning for Mossmorran from that process. We are prioritising Grangemouth at the moment, but that does not mean that we are not looking at what is happening in Mossmorran. That is part of the reason for my visit there. I am interested to hear what plans the operators have for the plant, particularly on low-carbon technologies. I am interested in what they might be doing on hydrogen and in hearing, from their perspective, how they might contribute to carbon capture, utilisation and storage. Our experience from the approach that has been taken in developing the Grangemouth industrial just transition plan has highlighted the importance of comprehensive engagement and planning, and of creating conditions for co-design to succeed.

To go back to something that David Torrance said, I agree 100 per cent that the transition must be worker led. We cannot do this without the engagement and buy-in of the workers and their associated unions. I have had an early conversation with Roz Foyer of the Scottish Trades Union Congress about the just transition element of my portfolio and how I can work more closely and effectively with the unions that work in all the areas concerned. We have been clear that trade union and worker representation will be critical in all our just transition plans, and that is the approach that we have taken in the draft energy strategy and just transition plan. I assure Alex Rowley that his point about a high-level strategic plan will be addressed in the energy strategy and just transition plan, which we will produce early in the summer. We are already adopting the approach that is set out in that draft plan in the just transition plan for Grangemouth.

Before I close, I want to go back to something that Douglas Lumsden said and to my initial point about political consensus. Political consensus is what workers and the public want. We have to steel ourselves and stop making so many political points, because the workers and stakeholders are watching what we do. We need to work in partnership with local authorities, the unions and the workers, and both Governments have to work hand in hand. That includes both Governments putting in significant investment. I would have liked the £28 billion pledge to remain, and I am sure that my Labour colleagues would have liked that, too. I am not making a political point; I am just saying that, if the UK Government changes, I urge Labour colleagues in Scotland to make the point that Scotland must be central to any green investment from the new UK Government.

I can see that the Presiding Officer would like me to finish, so I will leave it there.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

That concludes the debate. I suspend the meeting until 2.30 pm.

13:34 Meeting suspended.

14:30 On resuming—

Transport

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

Good afternoon. The first item of business is portfolio questions, and the portfolio on this occasion is transport. I invite members who wish to ask a supplementary question to press their request-to-speak buttons during the relevant question. There is quite a bit of interest, so brevity in questions and responses, as far as possible, would be appreciated.

Rail Services (Safety and Accessibility)

Ruth Maguire (Scottish National Party, Cunninghame South)

1. To ask the Scottish Government what action it is taking, including through discussion with the United Kingdom Government, to ensure that rail services are safe and accessible for all. (S6O-03166)

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

Although rail safety and accessibility are reserved to the United Kingdom Government, the Scottish Government has fully funded the Office of Rail and Road’s independent determination of Network Rail’s costs to deliver a safe and high-performing network.

Officials at Transport Scotland meet regularly with representatives from the Department for Transport and Network Rail to discuss various matters, including safety and accessibility. Only last week, I met the chair of the Network Rail board and the chair of the Office of Rail and Road board to discuss how the Scottish ministers’ requirements will be delivered by Network Rail.

Ruth Maguire (Scottish National Party, Cunninghame South)

Anyone who regularly uses the railway will have witnessed the benefit of having a safety-critical guard on the train. I personally received invaluable assistance recently in supporting a young female passenger who was being harassed by an older male.

I know that the Scottish Government is committed to ensuring that public transport is safe and accessible for all and is mindful in particular of the challenges that are faced by women and girls who are travelling alone.

Will the cabinet secretary use her influence to implore publicly owned ScotRail to show that it is, too, and to keep the guard on ScotRail services?

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

While staffing is generally a matter for ScotRail as the employer, the Scottish Government continues to specify a requirement that all ScotRail services should have a second staff member on board to assist passengers. In addition, Transport Scotland is taking forward with stakeholders the 10 recommendations from the work on women and girls’ safety on public transport.

I can also relay that ScotRail’s travel safe team is successful in its operation, and is doing joint patrols with British Transport Police where there are areas of antisocial behaviour that can cause difficulties.

Liam Kerr (Conservative, North East Scotland)

The ScotRail high-speed trains reportedly contributed to the tragic outcomes at Carmont, as they are less safe than trains that meet modern standards. The Cabinet Secretary for Transport and her predecessors have consistently refused to give me a date for replacement. Many suggest that that is due to the cost of the break clause in the contract with the rolling stock company.

Could the cabinet secretary confirm whether financial considerations play any part at all in the refusal to replace those HSTs?

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

I say very politely to Liam Kerr that he raised a similar point recently, and he was wrong and misrepresented the findings of the Carmont board in relation to those trains. What I can say, though, on the aspects of replacement is that that is an active consideration. We are engaging in replacement, and we will inform Parliament at the due point.

In relation to the member’s point, therefore, it is not about cost; it is a recognition that we need to replace those trains in line with other aspects, including—as he knows—the decarbonisation of the line at Aberdeen South. I would implore him—I have written to him; I am not sure whether he has received the letter correcting him in his misunderstanding—to consider that it is really wrong to misrepresent the Carmont safety board and its recommendations.

M77 Bus Lane Corridor

Willie Coffey (Scottish National Party, Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley)

2. To ask the Scottish Government whether it will revisit the feasibility of a bus lane corridor on the northbound M77 into Glasgow. (S6O-03167)

Jim Fairlie (Scottish National Party, Perthshire South and Kinross-shire)

The second strategic transport projects review, which was published in 2022, recommends that

“bus priority interventions are implemented within Scotland’s cities and towns where congestion is highest”.

That recommendation seeks to implement schemes that are targeted at delivering faster and more reliable journey times for bus passengers.

STPR2 also states:

“In the case of the trunk road and motorway network, Transport Scotland”

will

“build on the current work progressing plans for”

bus priority on

“the M8, M77 and M80”.

That work remains under development, in particular considering the changes in travel patterns following Covid and wider policy priorities.

Willie Coffey (Scottish National Party, Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley)

With the news confirmed yesterday that more than £1 billion has been cut from our capital budget by the UK Government, and with no prospect of that being reinstated by any future UK Government, how can we in Scotland make progress with such projects, including park-and-ride facilities, that would help to encourage more commuters out of their cars and on to the excellent bus services that we offer?

Jim Fairlie (Scottish National Party, Perthshire South and Kinross-shire)

This Government is committed to improving public transport to encourage a modal shift to it, which would result in a reduction of car-based trips and associated emissions. Bus priority measures at appropriate locations have the potential to deliver greater punctuality, to reduce journey times and to offer a competitive alternative to the private car, particularly where the measures include interchange with other public transport services and active travel. The second strategic transport projects review also recommends a framework for the delivery of mobility hubs to enhance transport interchanges and accessibility services.

Brian Whittle (Conservative, South Scotland)

The minister quite rightly highlights that pinch points for traffic going in and out of a city need to be considered when planning for successful bus lane usage. Does he also recognise that, along the A77, there are pinch points, such as at the Bellfield interchange, through which 41 per cent of traffic in and out of North Ayrshire travels? I am sure that my colleague Sharon Dowey could mention also the Dutch House roundabout and other roundabouts along that route. If we do not get them right, unfortunately, a bus lane will not be practical.

Jim Fairlie (Scottish National Party, Perthshire South and Kinross-shire)

As I said, Transport Scotland is looking at areas right across the country. Once that review is complete, we will have better answers on that.

Potholes

Russell Findlay (Conservative, West Scotland)

3. To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on how it plans to support local authorities to address the issue of potholes in the road network. (S6O-03168)

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

I appreciate the road maintenance challenges across Scotland and the importance of a safe, well-performing road network. However, local road maintenance is the responsibility of local authorities, which allocate resources on the basis of local priorities. The 2024-25 local government settlement provides record funding of more than £14 billion to local authorities, including £144 million of funding for the council tax freeze, which represents an increase of £795.7 million. Ultimately, it is for locally elected representatives to make local decisions on how best to deliver services to their local communities.

Russell Findlay (Conservative, West Scotland)

Roads in my West Scotland region are in a dangerous state of disrepair, just as they are across Scotland. One in four constituents who replied to my annual report say that potholes and poor road conditions are their main concern, with one Paisley resident telling me that cratered local roads are

“like the surface of the moon”.

The Scottish National Party has slashed council budgets year after year. Surely the cabinet secretary can admit that her Government must fill the councils’ funding gap so that they can fill the potholes.

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

The member says that all on the day after the autumn statement that provided no capital support for the Scottish Government. [

Interruption

.]

I am not going to diminish people’s experience of roads—as MSPs, we all understand what that is. However, the member could refer to the Scottish local government finance statistics for 2022-23. They show that the net revenue expenditure by local authorities on roads maintenance increased by 12.2 per cent, from £143 million in 2021-22 to £161 million in 2022-23—an increase of £18 million. There is an issue with how local authorities spend their funding, but those statistics show that, despite difficult circumstances, local authorities spent significantly more on roads maintenance in that year than in the year before.

Kevin Stewart (Scottish National Party, Aberdeen Central)

Does the cabinet secretary wish, as I do, that the Tories would explain to us how the Scottish Government is supposed to support local authorities to address potholes, as they ask, when their party is utterly content to see Scotland’s budget slashed by their Westminster masters? Does she agree that that sort of gaslighting is why the people of Scotland will never elect them to run this country?

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

I completely agree. Conservative Party members have no credibility when they come to the chamber and ask for the Government to give more money to local authorities at a time when their party is providing absolutely no increase to our budget and is taking 10 per cent out of our capital budget over the next 10 years. I think that they live in some kind of parallel universe.

Bus Partnership Fund

Rachael Hamilton (Conservative, Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire)

4. To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on the bus partnership fund, including what the spending plans are for the £473.1 million that is reportedly unspent to date, and when the fund will be resumed. (S6O-03169)

Jim Fairlie (Scottish National Party, Perthshire South and Kinross-shire)

Following the United Kingdom autumn statement delivering the worst-case scenario for Scotland and a nearly 10 per cent real-terms cut in our capital budget from the UK Government, which my colleague has just mentioned, the Scottish Government had to take difficult decisions to deliver a balanced and sustainable spending plan for 2024-25. As such, regrettably, the bus partnership fund has been paused for 2024-25. However, future funding availability will be considered as part of our annual budget-setting process and prioritisation exercises.

Rachael Hamilton (Conservative, Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire)

Since the pandemic, lifeline bus services, particularly those in rural areas such as the Borders, have come under significant pressure because of increased operating costs and reduced revenue income. Some operators have withdrawn services completely in rural areas, which affects young people and elderly people.

A temporary pause in direct funding for the bus partnership fund is disastrous for the future of rural bus travel. Will Jim Fairlie tell me where the funding has gone and when he will reinstate the direct funding for the bus partnership fund to ensure that rural local authorities and transport operators can continue to provide vital rural transport links?

Jim Fairlie (Scottish National Party, Perthshire South and Kinross-shire)

There is the parallel universe that Fiona Hyslop was just talking about. The budget has been cut by £1.6 billion, and we cannot magic money out of the air. The Scottish Government will continue to put in place the priorities that it can to ensure that rural—[

Interruption

.] I am absolutely not minimising rural bus users’ difficulties—I fully understand them—but we cannot magic money out of nowhere. If the budget is continuously cut, services will be frozen.

We will come to the decision about how we will get those things back in line once we can put budgets back in place without the savage cuts that we are currently facing from Westminster Tories. [

Interruption

.]

The Deputy Presiding Officer

I remind members that we will listen to the questions with courtesy and respect, and we will listen to the responses with the same courtesy and respect. There are a number of supplementary questions, and I will try to get them all in, but they will need to be brief, as will the responses.

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

Did the minister hear the finance secretary say during the budget process that she had received no alternative proposals from the Conservatives? As a consequence, the proposition that has just been put to the minister is laughable. The finances cannot be delivered to support it because of the cuts to the Scottish Government’s budget by the United Kingdom Government budget.

Jim Fairlie (Scottish National Party, Perthshire South and Kinross-shire)

I absolutely agree, but we must always come back to the point that this affects people. When we cut budgets, it is Rachael Hamilton’s constituents, my constituents and John Swinney’s constituents who feel the brunt of it. We must find a way to work together to get the budgets back in place so that we can provide the services that we want to provide.

Alex Rowley (Labour, Mid Scotland and Fife)

I have spoken to Strathclyde Partnership for Transport, South East of Scotland Transport Partnership and many individual local authorities, which, between them, must have put in hundreds of millions of pounds-worth of bids for the fund. Does the minister accept that it is crucial that we have that investment if we are to get the bus services up to a point where people will want to leave the car at home and use them? Therefore, can we ensure that we prioritise that budget as part of the overall strategy to get more people out of cars and into buses?

Jim Fairlie (Scottish National Party, Perthshire South and Kinross-shire)

I agree with a lot of what Alex Rowley is saying. Of course we want to get more people onto public transport, including buses, exactly as he says. The fund is paused; the Government has not said that it will not continue in a later year. If we can get our budgets back to where we would like them to be after the cuts that we have faced, that is what the Government will do. We are absolutely committed to making bus travel work for the people of Scotland.

Willie Rennie (Liberal Democrat, North East Fife)

W

hen the Scottish National Party came to power, there were almost half a billion journeys on the buses every year. Over the following decade, that number dropped by 100 million, before dropping further since the pandemic. In the years before the autumn statement, why did the Government fail to spend the budget that was designed to reverse that decline?

Jim Fairlie (Scottish National Party, Perthshire South and Kinross-shire)

I very much hear what Willie Rennie says, but he completely forgot to talk about the pandemic and the fall in the number of bus users during it. In the south of Scotland alone, more than 180,000 people benefit from free bus travel, and there have been more than 460,000 journeys in the past month alone. We are absolutely committed to trying to do everything that we can to maintain bus services in Scotland, and it would be really helpful if our budgets did not get continuously slashed.

MV Caledonian Isles

Katy (Labour, West Scotland)

5. To ask the Scottish Government what action it is taking to support ferry users, in light of reports that MV Caledonian Isles will be out of action for four more months. (S6O-03170)

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

The delay in the MV Caledonian Isles returning from essential dry docking is regrettable, and I recognise the frustration felt by the Arran community as a result. I spoke with Caledonian MacBrayne’s chief executive last week to convey my concern, and I have been clear that I expect CalMac to apply the revised route prioritisation matrix, which includes more emphasis on the level of use by island residents and commercial vehicles, along with higher prioritisation for routes with limited capacity on alternative services.

The Arran community and others across the network need those assurances, particularly as we look towards the Easter break and beyond. Meanwhile, Arran is being served by the MV Isle of Arran, with no capacity issues currently being reported.

Katy (Labour, West Scotland)

As the cabinet secretary knows, the Arran route is the busiest service, with islanders, tourism and the wider economy heavily reliant on it. The cabinet secretary has alluded to the fact that, as the year progresses, the MV Isle of Arran will not have the capacity needed to provide the service. In the discussions that she has had, what has been said about how capacity can be increased on the route as the year progresses?

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

That was one of the messages that I gave CalMac with regard to the capacity issues, particularly for the highly-used service to Arran. CalMac’s activities will include identifying any alternative measures that, during the July to August period in particular, might improve capacity for Arran and help to support the holiday season.

Kenneth Gibson (Scottish National Party, Cunninghame North)

In

tourism, perception is critical. Irresponsible comments by Tory list MSPs that the ferry service is catastrophic do nothing to convey the reality that Arran is open for business. CalMac is making 11th-hour efforts to maximise capacity on the Ardrossan to Brodick route with the MV Isle of Lewis berthing trials, the results of which will not be known until next week. Does the cabinet secretary agree that Arran’s community must be fully briefed on those trials so that they can plan effectively for Easter?

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

The berthing trials are part of the attempt to identify other ways of improving capacity. I completely agree with the sentiment expressed by Kenneth Gibson that, despite such challenges, Arran and all our islands are very much open for business this Easter. It is important that we all take responsibility to ensure that our messaging on that is clear, including in comments made in the chamber and by others in the press.

Train Line Reopening (Ayr Station Hotel)

Sharon Dowey (Conservative, South Scotland)

6. To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on the reopening of the train line south of Ayr, in light of the fire at the Ayr station hotel. (S6O-03171)

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

The

restoration of rail services, including those running south of Ayr, is dependent on the completion of works to make the Ayr station hotel building safe, for which South Ayrshire Council is responsible. I understand that the council leader might have suggested dates for restoring the rail services; however, the basis upon which he made those suggestions is not clear. That was inadvisable, as he had no locus to do that; I made it clear when I met him that he must not take on the role of speaking for the rail authorities.

Announcements on the restoration of rail services can be for only Network Rail and ScotRail to advise. Only when the council’s works to make the hotel safer are completed will the rail industry be able to get access to carry out the necessary works to enable the restoration of services. Once there is certainty on the completion date for the safety-related works, Scotland’s Railway will start to communicate the timings for services being restored.

Sharon Dowey (Conservative, South Scotland)

The closure of the line is having a huge impact on visitor numbers to Ayr and the surrounding local economy. The Scottish grand national will be at Ayr racecourse on 20 April, with well over 20,000 racegoers coming to Ayr for the weekend. As the grand national supports a lot of jobs, gives a substantial boost to many Ayrshire businesses and is a major event for the local economy, it is imperative that the railway be opened before it starts. After all, the current arrangements are totally inadequate, especially given the fact that no trains can travel south. What action is being taken now to reopen the line, and will the cabinet secretary guarantee that the railway will be back to normal before the Scottish grand national?

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

The

member really has to take a level of responsibility here. The railway can open only when it is safe to do so, and it is imperative that we all make considered remarks about when the rail service can be restored.

I hear what Sharon Dowey says about the grand national, which is one of the biggest days of the year in Ayr. I remember waitressing on grand national day and how busy the town was with people coming in. What I can say to her is that we will, with all our Transport Scotland colleagues, identify how we can support transportation to Ayr to ensure a successful Scottish grand national that day.

Western Isles Ferries (Deployment Decisions)

Alasdair Allan (Scottish National Party, Na h-Eileanan an Iar)

7. To ask the Scottish Government what factors are assessed when determining vessel deployment decisions for Western Isles ferry routes. (S6O-03172)

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

Vessel deployment is an operational matter for CalMac Ferries

, but ministers recognise the impact that is being felt as a result of service disruption. Following a request by communities, and ministers seeking this work, CalMac has reviewed the route prioritisation matrix for the major vessel fleet with the support of the ferries community board.

Following public consultation, CalMac has made a number of changes to its prioritisation approach, including more emphasis on the level of use by island residents and commercial vehicles, along with higher prioritisation for routes with limited capacity on alternative services. I fully expect that to be applied by CalMac when it considers options.

Alasdair Allan (Scottish National Party, Na h-Eileanan an Iar)

My constituents have welcomed

the summer timetable redeployment decisions that were announced yesterday for the period while the MV Caledonian Isles undergoes extensive repairs. However, CalMac is still exploring another alternative, namely the use of the MV Isle of Lewis on the Uig triangle, taking it away from the Castlebay to Oban route. Will the cabinet secretary assure my constituents that any vessel to be deployed on the latter route in such a scenario is more likely to be reliably suitable for such an exposed route than the MV Isle of Arran, which was being considered for the route by CalMac as recently as last week?

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

Scottish ministers note the concerns of

communities as CalMac seeks to optimise deployment of the reduced fleet across the summer period until the return of the MV Caledonian Isles. As Dr Allan will be aware, it is the operator’s responsibility to make detailed deployment decisions, although we expect it to take account of the capacity and capability of vessels in its consideration. We understand that trials will be taking place next week to further consider the feasibility of that option.

Fife Circle Improvement Plan

Annabelle Ewing (Scottish National Party, Cowdenbeath)

8. To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on the improvement plan for the Fife circle railway line. (S6O-03173)

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

It was helpful to meet Annabelle Ewing last month.

Improving services for Fife communities is a priority issue for me and my officials at Transport Scotland, and I am pleased that there has been a reduction in the number of short-form services in Fife. However, although that is welcome, further work is required.

My officials have engaged with ScotRail through Scottish Rail Holdings to require improvements to rolling stock maintenance in order to make more trains available for service each day. A range of work is under way to improve services in Fife and, with the £116 million investment by the Scottish Government, we look forward to the reopening of the Levenmouth line.

Annabelle Ewing (Scottish National Party, Cowdenbeath)

Although it is welcome news that improvements are evidently in the pipeline, what my constituents want to know is: when will the improvement plan be implemented and will it address directly the long-standing problems with overcrowding and cancelled trains?

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

Overcrowding on

Fife services is due to the short-forming of trains that serve the route, and that is caused by poor diesel fleet reliability. That is a legacy issue, caused in part by the poor staffing and fleet choices that were made by the previous franchisee.

My officials have required ScotRail to develop an improvement plan, which is currently under way and covers issues such as fleet availability and a monitoring system. Now that the plan is in place, it is proving useful in directing improvement action. There is a recruitment campaign, and that and related management action should deliver material improvements in the availability of maintenance staff in a matter of months. A number of fleet improvement investments are also being identified, which should deliver further improvements over the next two to three years.

Some of the items that I have mentioned are more immediate, and I will make sure that they are put forward in a form that people can see, particularly Annabelle Ewing, who has pursued the matter assiduously.

Mark Ruskell (Green, Mid Scotland and Fife)

With new stations being opened at Leven

and Cameron Bridge in June this year, rail campaigners across Fife are feeling inspired and hopeful. Key progress is being made in the business cases for the reopening of stations at St Andrews and Newburgh. Will the cabinet secretary congratulate the communities that are leading the way? Does she see a need to expand rail further in Fife to achieve the modal shift away from car usage that we require nationally?

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

A number of communities

right across Scotland—in particular, in Fife and the St Andrews area—are pursuing improvements of and developments in the rail system. I commend the efforts of all those involved in the Starlink campaign for progressing the transport appraisal for the St Andrews area, which involves considering a range of multimodal transport options.

We want to improve modal shift, and it is important that rail is part of that work. I understand that the planning appraisal that Mark Ruskell has just referred to is on-going and that there is no final conclusion to it.

Liam Kerr (Conservative, North East Scotland)

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. Earlier on, I asked the cabinet secretary a straight question on whether financial considerations were holding up the replacement of the class 43s. In her response, she suggested—in, dare I say, somewhat intemperate language—that I was wrong and that I was misrepresenting the findings of the Carmont board in relation to those trains. I am happy to send her a copy of the report, but I refer her especially to sections 76 and 77, especially the bit that says:

“RAIB considers it more likely than not that the outcome would have been better if the train had been compliant with modern crashworthiness standards.”

Therefore, Presiding Officer, will you give the cabinet secretary an opportunity to read the report, to reflect on her remarks, to correct the record and to send me an apology?

The Deputy Presiding Officer

Thank you, Mr Kerr. That is not a point of order, as you well know.

Fiona Hyslop (Scottish National Party, Linlithgow)

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. Obviously, things that are said in this chamber—not just my response, but Liam Kerr’s original questions this week and last—appear in the

Official Report

. It is really important that the safety record is understood, and I will be more than delighted to resend the letter to Liam Kerr in order to correct his misrepresentations today and previously.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

That, too, is not a point of order, but it is now on the record.

Emma Caldwell Case

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

The next item of business is an urgent statement by Angela Constance on the Emma Caldwell case. Before the statement begins, I wish to ensure that all members are aware that, because legal proceedings in the case remain live, the sub judice rule is engaged. I therefore request that members focus on the issues that are discussed in the statement itself and that they avoid any speculation about, or discussion of, the detail of the individual case.

The cabinet secretary will take questions at the end of her statement, so there should be no interventions or interruptions.

Angela Constance (Scottish National Party, Almond Valley)

B

efore I make the statement, it is important that I make it clear that while legal proceedings in the Emma Caldwell case remain live, I must be careful not to refer to any details of the criminal case itself. In addition, I know that members will understand that, at this time, there are restrictions on what I can say and on the level of detail that I can offer, both in the statement and in responses to questions.

I know of no greater loss than that which comes with the loss of one’s child. It seems to be unimaginable that the loss, grief, and pain—a pain that Margaret Caldwell has described as “enduring” and “excruciating”—could be further compounded by almost two decades of not knowing what had happened to your child or why they were taken from you.

The courage and conviction of the Caldwell family and Emma’s mum, Margaret, will have left a lasting impression on everyone who has had the privilege of engaging with the family. Mrs Caldwell has lived through what no one should ever live through. Therefore, let me repeat the words of the First Minister when he and I met the family earlier this week. He said:

“We are so deeply sorry for your and your family’s loss and for the pain and grief you have all had to endure. And for the two decades of fighting a fight that you, and William (before he passed away) and your family should never have had to go through.”

When we met on Tuesday, Mrs Caldwell reminded us that at the heart of all this is Emma—a gentle and kind daughter who was deeply loved and who was incredibly close to her mum, her dad and her siblings.

Nineteen years have elapsed between Emma’s murder and a conviction. There can be no doubt about the serious failings that brought a grieving family to having to fight for their right—for Emma’s right—to justice.

I know that Mrs Caldwell has met the chief constable, and it is right that Police Scotland has publicly and personally apologised for letting Emma and her family down in the original investigation by Strathclyde Police. The chief constable said:

“A significant number of women and girls who showed remarkable courage to speak up at that time also did not get the justice and support they needed and deserved from Strathclyde Police.”

That said, I commend those who were involved in the recent reinvestigation of the case, and I know that Mrs Caldwell and the family have also thanked those who were involved in securing last week’s conviction.

I am clear and confident that Police Scotland is, like society, changing, and that it is different from the legacy forces of the past, but that is not enough to comfort the Caldwell family, nor does it do justice to Emma’s memory.

The First Minister made it clear last week that we would give serious consideration to the Caldwell family’s call for a public inquiry into Emma’s case, and that we would take a decision only after we had heard directly from Margaret Caldwell and her family. Following the meeting with the Caldwell family, I can today announce that there will be an independent judge-led statutory public inquiry, and that preparations for the inquiry will begin immediately.

I have not taken that decision lightly; I recognise that a statutory public inquiry is a very significant undertaking. It will take time to set up the inquiry and for it to hear evidence and reach its findings. Nonetheless, given the gravity of the case, the length of time that it took for justice to be served, the horrific extent of the sexual violence that has been suffered by the victims and survivors, and the suffering that has been endured by their families, the case for holding a public inquiry is clear and compelling. It is time to apply fresh scrutiny to the case so that we can understand what went wrong, ensure that lessons are learned for the future and provide answers to all the victims and survivors.

I have asked my officials to begin immediate preparatory work to set up the inquiry. As part of that work, they will explore the options for who would lead such an inquiry. After discussing that with the family, we are in agreement that what is most important is that the person who leads the inquiry has the confidence of the family, understands their trauma and has the necessary expertise to lead an inquiry of this nature and importance. That will lead to us considering the judiciary within and outwith Scotland. To be clear, I have faith and confidence in the independence and integrity of the Scottish judiciary; however, there is precedent for looking beyond Scotland for a chair, and it is important that we explore all options at this stage.

Because an intimation of intention to appeal has been lodged in the case, I cannot go into further detail today. However, I commit to updating Parliament when all legal proceedings in the case are at an end and when we have appointed an inquiry chair. We will work alongside the chair and the family in setting and agreeing the terms of reference.

I welcome Police Scotland’s statement that

“time is no barrier to justice”,

and I support the call for anyone who has been a victim of sexual violence to come forward and speak to the police, no matter when the offences took place.

We must go further and faster in order to eradicate the scourge of violence against women, and we must tackle the root causes. That means focusing on challenging misogyny and the toxic masculinity that underpins that behaviour. It means that we must challenge and address gender inequality and that, when those unacceptable behaviours turn into violence and abuse, we must ensure that men—the perpetrator is almost always a man—are held to account for their actions and are brought to justice. Our equally safe strategy sets out those priority areas and it details the approach that we are taking to prevent and tackle violence against women and girls, through focusing on early intervention and prevention, and on support services.

As part of my role in progressing the Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill, I have heard from many victims and survivors that, for them, the justice system is distressing and disempowering. Women and girls have told the Government and the Criminal Justice Committee that their experiences of the justice system have been worse than the crime itself. That is completely unacceptable and must be addressed. That is why I urge members to look at the proposals in our bill and the reforms that we want to drive forward so that we have a justice system that works for sexual offence complainants. A consistent and robust response throughout the justice system, from initial complaint to the end of any trial, is critical in our efforts to prevent violence against women and girls. We must all do better to support the courageous women who speak up, and to show all the women and girls in our country who feel that they do not have a voice—including those who are on the margins of society through trauma or addiction, who need us—that they, too, will be heard.

Let me finish where I began, Presiding Officer. I say this to the Caldwell family: that no matter what I say today or announce in this chamber, it will not be enough to respond to your loss and tragedy, but I, this Government and—I very much believe—this Parliament want to do everything that we can. For you, Margaret, for William, for your family and for women and girls across this country, but most of all for Emma, I am pleased to tell Parliament today that there will be a public inquiry. I will continue to give all that I have in order to eradicate violence against women and girls across this country, so that no one else has to endure what you have endured.

However, I want Margaret to have the final words, which she shared with me earlier. She said:

“My daughter Emma and the many victims who so courageously spoke up deserve nothing less than a robust independent public inquiry and a judge who will act without fear or favour. There are those who say that such inquiries take too long, but my family has struggled for 19 years to get justice. We will wait however long it takes to see the truth and will accept nothing less.”

The Presiding Officer

The cabinet secretary will now take questions on the issues raised in her statement. I intend to allow around 20 minutes for questions, after which we will move on to the next item of business. I would be grateful if members who wish to put a question would press their request-to-speak buttons.

Russell Findlay (Conservative, West Scotland)

I thank the cabinet secretary for advance sight

of her statement. I begin by paying tribute to Margaret Caldwell and her family, who are in the public gallery today. None of us can truly imagine the depth of her suffering over the past two decades—a daughter lost to cancer, her other daughter murdered, and her husband, William, also taken by cancer. Margaret’s agony has been compounded by what appears to be corruption at the heart of Scotland’s criminal justice system. She was deceived and lied to by those in positions of power and trust in the police and the Crown Office.

I have just met Margaret and her family, and their strength and dignity are truly humbling. Her campaign for Emma has been backed by good police officers, lawyers and journalists. However, let me be clear that her daughter’s killer is now behind bars only because of her love and her strength. I believe that, if it had been left to Police Scotland and the Crown Office, Iain Packer would almost certainly still be out there raping women with impunity.

Today’s announcement of an inquiry is welcome, but a key question remains unanswered. Margaret believes that only a judge with no connections to Scotland’s criminal justice establishment should be appointed. To be credible and trusted, the inquiry must be truly independent, so I hope that the cabinet secretary can agree today to Margaret’s call for an external judicial appointment.

Angela Constance (Scottish National Party, Almond Valley)

Today of all days,

I have no intention of uttering the name of anyone who has been convicted of such heinous crimes. The only names that I will utter are those of Margaret and Emma and, of course, the Caldwell family. Mr Findlay is quite correct to pay tribute to Emma’s courageous and tenacious family, who have endured what no family should ever endure. They are a credit to Emma and her memory, and also to the safety and wellbeing of women and girls across the country.

Right now, the priority for me is to set up the inquiry. I give Parliament an undertaking to keep members informed. As I said in my statement, as regards next steps, I will continue to engage with the family and also with others, such as the Lord President and the Lord Advocate, with whom I am required to engage. I am open to the inquiry having a chair from outwith Scotland. As I also said in my statement, there is precedent for that. Members might recall that Sir Anthony Campbell led the independent public inquiry on fingerprint evidence.

Today, we must all put our shoulder to the wheel to ensure that the inquiry is set up on the strongest and most stable footing, so that we can all say to the Caldwell family that, although we recognise that their pain will never fade, we can open a new chapter in their journey for justice.

Pauline McNeill (Labour, Glasgow)

It is the job of this Parliament to ensure that no family should ever have to wait two decades for justice. The long and commendable fight that the Caldwell family, whom I, too, had the humbling pleasure of meeting today, have endured to get justice for their daughter, Emma, has also served to question the fate of other women, such as the four vulnerable women who were murdered in Glasgow in the 1990s. They have highlighted the injustice of serious violence against women that is so prevalent in our society.

Scottish Labour stands four square behind the Government and Angela Constance on her decision to hold a public inquiry to establish, among other matters, why there was no prosecution in 2008, when it appeared that the Crown and the police had enough evidence for that to happen. A public inquiry must get to the truth of that, which should include probing all the criminal justice agencies, which have questions to answer. What happened between 2008, when it is believed that there was sufficient evidence, and 2024, when there were finally a conviction and a sentence?

The cabinet secretary has said that she will consider appointing an inquiry chair from outside Scotland. Scottish Labour would support that, given the unique nature of the inquiry that is required here, so that the family can have full confidence in the inquiry’s conclusions. If I might press the cabinet secretary a little, notwithstanding what she said about judicial matters relating to the appeal, I am sure that she would agree that the inquiry should be conducted in a timely manner following that appeal.

Angela Constance (Scottish National Party, Almond Valley)

I appreciate Ms McNeill’s support on this matter. The purpose of the public inquiry is to provide fresh scrutiny of the full course of events over the past 19 years. It will, of course, scrutinise all aspects of our justice system. I assure Ms McNeill and other members that whoever leads the independent inquiry at the end of the day cannot have had any previous involvement in this case. I know that that is perhaps stating the obvious, but it is important to put it on record.

Ms McNeill also touched on the importance of the many victims in this case, in that inquiries continue on other unsolved murders. I put it on record that, according to statistics published last October, for the period since the establishment of Police Scotland in 2013-14 until 2022-23 all 591 reported homicides, which account for 602 victims, have been solved. However, of course, there are historical cases—I do not like the phrase “cold cases”—where families are still waiting for justice and for the day when they are able to breathe again.

Audrey Nicoll (Scottish National Party, Aberdeen South and North Kincardine)

I associate myself with the cabinet secretary’s comments, and I express my deepest sorrow to the family of Emma Caldwell for their loss.

We know that inquiries can take time, and we would not want anyone involved in this case to have to wait any longer than necessary for the answers that they are looking for. Has the cabinet secretary had the opportunity to discuss the long timescales that are often involved in any inquiry with the Caldwell family, so that they know the process that will follow?