Scottish Parliament, 18 May 2023

340 contributions from 71 members. The official report.

General Question Time

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Good morning. Our first item of business is general question time. As ever, short and succinct questions and responses would be appreciated.

Monklands Hospital (Replacement)

Richard Leonard (Labour, Central Scotland)

1. To ask the Scottish Government what the timescale is for the completion of the Monklands replacement project. (S6O-02252)

Michael Matheson (Scottish National Party, Falkirk West)

The outline business case for the Monklands replacement project estimates that construction will complete in 2031.

Richard Leonard (Labour, Central Scotland)

The site for the replacement Monklands hospital was first identified and approved more than two years ago. In May 2021, the Scottish National Party manifesto said that it would invest the “capital required to build” a new hospital. The outline business case was presented nearly six months ago but, at the same time, a delay of three years was announced for the hospital’s scheduled opening.

Despite the dedication of national health service staff, the current Monklands hospital building is in poor health. People in Lanarkshire are beginning to ask me whether the new hospital will be built at all. Will the cabinet secretary give a commitment today that there will be no reduction in capacity or in the range of services that are provided, that there will be no downgrading in build quality, that he will stick to the plans as outlined in the business case and that there will be no further delays to the hospital’s opening?

Michael Matheson (Scottish National Party, Falkirk West)

Richard Leonard will recognise that we have made a strong commitment to deliver a new Monklands hospital. I know that the issue is also close to the heart of the local constituency member, Neil Gray. As a Government, we are determined to ensure that the hospital is delivered.

The outline business case is being considered through the normal capital projects project review process, which we are going through now. We have had to look at the process as a result of United Kingdom Government cuts to capital expenditure that have a direct impact on capital projects in Scotland. We have to consider the matter in the round, which is why we are going through the process of identifying our key priorities, of which Monklands hospital is one. I assure Richard Leonard that we will look at how we will take that forward to a full business case.

Richard Leonard made specific reference to aspects of the services that will be delivered in the hospital. That is clearly a matter for the health board to take forward, and it will be part of the final business case that will be produced. We will certainly support the health board to take an approach that is consistent with the way in which hospital projects have been delivered in the past.

Graham Simpson (Conservative, Central Scotland)

Will the cabinet secretary answer the original question that was posed to him by Richard Leonard? Will there be any further delays?

Michael Matheson (Scottish National Party, Falkirk West)

It always feels a bit ironic when Conservative members come into the chamber demanding that capital investment projects be taken forward, when the very people who have been cutting capital expenditure to the Scottish Government are the Conservatives at Westminster—Mr Simpson’s colleagues. I am surprised that he does not have coach loads of constituents queuing up at his surgeries to complain about the impact that his party is having on capital investment projects in Scotland, including vital projects such as Monklands hospital, which this Government is determined to deliver.

Volunteering Action Plan

Stephanie Callaghan (Scottish National Party, Uddingston and Bellshill)

2. To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on the implementation of the volunteering action plan. (S6O-02253)

Shirley-Anne Somerville (Scottish National Party, Dunfermline)

The Scottish Government appreciates the contribution that volunteers make to society. Our 10-year volunteering action plan, which was published in June 2022, was co-produced with partners in the third sector, and its aim is to support people to volunteer throughout their lives.

Volunteer Scotland is raising awareness of volunteering and its benefits for all who are involved. New groups have been established, including a cost of living volunteering task group and a policy champions network, to ensure that the power of volunteering is recognised as policies are developed.

Stephanie Callaghan (Scottish National Party, Uddingston and Bellshill)

I welcome the plan’s aim of creating an environment in which everyone can volunteer more often and throughout their lives, and the plan’s focus on tackling inequality for people who have traditionally faced barriers to volunteering.

What specific steps is the Scottish Government taking to increase public awareness of volunteering and to tackle the stereotypes that exist around what volunteering is and who the people who volunteer are?

Shirley-Anne Somerville (Scottish National Party, Dunfermline)

Stephanie Callaghan has raised an important point about the need to encourage diversity in our volunteers. The Scottish Government funds Volunteer Scotland as the national advice centre for volunteering, which helps to increase participation in volunteering as well as widening access to volunteering. For example, Volunteer Scotland has a search facility to ensure visibility of the volunteering options that are available to people.

Stephanie Callaghan is right to point to the need to ensure that volunteers come from diverse backgrounds. We all have an obligation to encourage that. The Government, in conjunction with Volunteer Scotland, is determined to tackle the barriers that might be preventing people from coming forward.

Fife Council Housing Services (Discussions)

Annabelle Ewing (Scottish National Party, Cowdenbeath)

3. To ask the Scottish Government when it last met the head of housing services at Fife Council and what was discussed. (S6O-02254)

Paul McLennan (Scottish National Party, East Lothian)

The head of housing services at Fife Council last met the Scottish Government in September of last year. Matters concerning the supply of affordable housing are high on the Scottish Government’s agenda and on the agendas of our local authority partners, and the discussion in question considered those matters and related issues relevant to Fife Council.

I plan to meet Fife Council in the near future to continue those discussions.

Annabelle Ewing (Scottish National Party, Cowdenbeath)

There are some 126 council house properties in my Cowdenbeath constituency that have been recorded on Fife Council’s mould and dampness survey. Although Fife Council initially told me that remedial action would be taken by May of this year, sadly that timetable has slipped, with no date at all having been set for completion of the remedial works. Does the minister consider that to be a satisfactory position for my constituents, who continue to live in unacceptable conditions? What can he do to quicken the necessary action?

Paul McLennan (Scottish National Party, East Lothian)

I am sorry to hear of the issues that Annabelle Ewing’s constituents face. Damp and mould in housing is a serious issue, so it is vital that landlords be proactive in identifying such issues and in taking action to treat the root causes.

Although it is welcome to hear that Fife Council has committed to taking remedial action, it is of concern that the timeframe for it has slipped. I hope that the council has kept tenants up to date and that it is communicating its plans for resolving the issues effectively and in a timely manner. I will take up the matter with Fife Council and will provide Annabelle Ewing with an update.

Willie Rennie (Liberal Democrat, North East Fife)

The minister knows that I am keen for action to be taken to halt the huge growth in short-term lets in my constituency. Although I did not support the licensing scheme, I think that the control areas could make a significant difference. I think that Fife Council is dragging its feet and that the time that it has set in that regard is far too late. Therefore, when the minister speaks to Fife Council, will he have a discussion about the timescale for implementing the control areas?

Paul McLennan (Scottish National Party, East Lothian)

I was glad to meet Mr Rennie during the week to discuss housing issues in Fife.

The Scottish Government gave powers to local authorities in relation to short-term let control areas, so it is up to them to discuss any such decisions. I think that the council will get back to Mr Rennie on that.

Vaping Products (Restriction of Marketing and Advertising)

Emma Harper (Scottish National Party, South Scotland)

4. To ask the Scottish Government when it plans to lay regulations to restrict the marketing and advertising of vaping products, following the publication of the responses to its consultation, “Tightening rules on advertising and promoting vaping products”, on 27 September 2022. (S6O-02255)

Jenni Minto (Scottish National Party, Argyll and Bute)

I thank Emma Harper for raising an important issue. Our 2022 consultation proposed restrictions on vaping products that strike a balance between protecting all non-smokers from the potential harms of vaping and providing existing adult smokers with the information that they need to make an informed choice on cessation.

As part of our active consideration of those restrictions, further evidence has been developed on the harms that are associated with vaping products. It was published on 10 May 2023, and we will publish our refreshed tobacco action plan in the autumn.

Emma Harper (Scottish National Party, South Scotland)

I am co-convener of the cross-party group on lung health, which has explored the issue of e-cigarettes and vaping. We were presented with clear evidence that young people are targeted directly through marketing strategies that include the use of attractive bright packaging and attractive flavours, including candyfloss, pink lemonade and bubble gum.

Emerging evidence shows that vaping is a future lung health ticking time bomb. Will the minister commit to bringing forward the regulations as soon as possible, to ensure that we protect young people from the health harms of vaping?

Jenni Minto (Scottish National Party, Argyll and Bute)

I recognise the concerns that Emma Harper raises. When I visited a school in my constituency a couple of months ago, a teacher showed me vapes that she had taken from her pupils.

As a priority, I am considering a range of steps to deal with vaping, including use of regulation, and those will form part of our refreshed tobacco action plan in the autumn. Any action that we take will build on the regulations that are already in place to restrict the marketing, promotion and sale of vaping products to under-18s.

Pam Duncan-Glancy (Labour, Glasgow)

A 16-year-old constituent recently contacted me because they are struggling to quit vaping. When they asked their general practitioner and pharmacy for support, they were told that nothing is available. What support can the Scottish Government provide to help young people to quit vaping?

Jenni Minto (Scottish National Party, Argyll and Bute)

I recognise that issue, which the World Health Organization has described as a “major concern”. I have asked Public Health Scotland to look into that and will be working on the issue along with my colleague Elena Whitham.

Dental Charges

Pam Gosal (Conservative, West Scotland)

5. To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on its commitment to abolish national health service dental charges by the end of the current parliamentary session. (S6O-02256)

Jenni Minto (Scottish National Party, Argyll and Bute)

The Scottish Government remains committed to the removal of all dental charges during the lifetime of this Parliament. We have made initial progress towards that commitment with the extension of free national health service dental care to young people aged 18 to 25. The new policy prospectus provides a commitment to sustained, improved and equitable national access to NHS dentistry.

Pam Gosal (Conservative, West Scotland)

My inbox has been flooded with emails from constituents and dental practitioners. One dentist wrote:

“Many dedicated NHS colleagues can no longer see their futures working in a dysfunctional and underfunded system. It is our patients—and your constituents—who will end up paying the price.”

The Scottish Government pledged to make NHS dentistry free at the point of use by 2026, but that will not be the case if the Scottish National Party continues presiding over the collapse of NHS dental surgeries. Last week, the minister was unable to provide assurance that there would be no further delay to the reform process.

We have the opportunity to build a service that is fit for the 21st century, with prevention at its heart. What assurance can the minister give that the reforms will not be delayed and that they will actually be effective?

Jenni Minto (Scottish National Party, Argyll and Bute)

As I said last week, the single most important reform that we can put in place is payment reform and we are working on that with dentists and their organisations as I speak. We have brought in 10 per cent bridging payments for dentists, which will be in place until 31 October, and we intend to bring in a new payment structure, which we hope will be agreed by dentists, on 1 November this year.

Scottish Social Security Benefits (Uptake Maximisation)

Marie McNair (Scottish National Party, Clydebank and Milngavie)

6. To ask the Scottish Government what action it is taking to maximise the uptake of Scottish social security benefits. (S6O-02257)

Shirley-Anne Somerville (Scottish National Party, Dunfermline)

Our second benefit take-up strategy, published in 2021, sets out our approach to ensuring that people are able and encouraged to access the benefits that they are entitled to. We remain focused on the removal of social barriers to people accessing Scottish benefits; addressing complex or costly access; and improving access to information.

We are delivering a number of take-up initiatives, such as our local delivery service, which takes our services to the locations that are most accessible to people, and we run targeted marketing campaigns.

We will publish our next annual update on benefit take-up rates in autumn 2023.

Marie McNair (Scottish National Party, Clydebank and Milngavie)

I welcome the efforts that have been made to maximise the take-up of social security benefits in Scotland, which is vital, given the impact that the Westminster-imposed cost of living crisis is having on many people.

A recent report by Policy in Practice estimated that £7.5 billion-worth of universal credit is not claimed. Universal credit is one of the passport benefits allowing access to the vital Scottish child payment. Is the cabinet secretary concerned that the lack of a benefit take-up strategy by the United Kingdom Government, to encourage the take-up of universal credit, might deny some families access to the Scottish child payment?

Shirley-Anne Somerville (Scottish National Party, Dunfermline)

The member raises an important point about benefit take-up strategies and I encourage the Department for Work and Pensions to do as the Scottish Government has done.

However, we need more than a benefits strategy; we need an entirely changed approach. For example, when we compare the Scottish Government’s human rights approach to social security, which encourages people to apply for what they are entitled to, with the UK Government’s degrading system, where there is still far too much stigma and there are still far too many barriers in the way, we can see exactly why it takes much more than a benefits strategy to improve the situation.

Second Strategic Transport Projects Review (Delivery Plan)

Finlay Carson (Conservative, Galloway and West Dumfries)

7. To ask the Scottish Government when it plans to announce the delivery plan for the second strategic transport projects review. (S6O-02258)

Kevin Stewart (Scottish National Party, Aberdeen Central)

This Government is taking significant action to develop, deliver and invest in Scotland’s strategic transport infrastructure for the long term. Work is already under way to deliver 38 of the 45 recommendations in STPR2, with consideration on-going on how best to mobilise the remaining seven.

Finlay Carson (Conservative, Galloway and West Dumfries)

I thank the minister for that response, but it is hugely disappointing that, despite the commitment that Michael Matheson made in January this year to release details surrounding the delivery plan for STPR2, those have still not been forthcoming. That shows once again the utter contempt that this Scottish Government displays, particularly towards the people of the south-west of Scotland. Despite the promises that have been made year after year, the spend on infrastructure projects in the south has been less than 0.5 per cent of the national infrastructure spend.

Thanks to the Sir Peter Hendy review, which highlighted the desperate need for serious investment in the A75, including a bypass at Crocketford and Springholm, we can now see that those improvements are vital. I am aware that a business plan for the A75 has now been submitted—

The Presiding Officer

Can I have a question, please, Mr Carson?

Finlay Carson (Conservative, Galloway and West Dumfries)

—seeking funding from the Government. When will the minister do likewise and do the right thing, fulfilling once and for all his commitment to provide finance towards these projects?

Kevin Stewart (Scottish National Party, Aberdeen Central)

I met Mr Carson and other colleagues from the south of Scotland last week and I outlined

some of the work that we are doing. As Mr Carson is well aware, I have met United Kingdom ministers round about the A75 to try to access funding from the union connectivity fund. A draft business case for the A75 has been submitted to the Department for Transport, and it includes a proposal to fund further design and development of options for the realignment of the A75, including around the villages of Springholm and Crocketford, which I know that Mr Carson has an interest in. I hope that the UK Government will respond positively and will hand over the resources that are required in order to get these works going.

Recruitment (Assistance for Businesses)

Murdo Fraser (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

8. To ask the Scottish Government what action it is taking to assist any businesses that are struggling to recruit skilled workers. (S6O-02259)

Neil Gray (Scottish National Party, Airdrie and Shotts)

The action that we are taking to work with employers includes on-going investment to deliver 25,500 new modern apprenticeship starts in 2023-24, support for developing the young workforce to enable young people to prepare for work, and on-going investment in short courses across tertiary education that are aimed at upskilling and reskilling.

Furthermore, through the establishment of a talent attraction and migration service, our wider programme of work and the work of our enterprise agencies, we will help employers in key sectors to recruit workers from outside Scotland.

Murdo Fraser (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

I thank the cabinet secretary for that response. Contrary to the claims that are often made in this chamber that Brexit has dried up the supply of migrant workers, the latest figures show that net legal migration to the United Kingdom has doubled since Brexit. It is now at record levels and it is projected to grow still further. The problem is that too few of those legal migrants to the UK come to Scotland. We lag behind every part of England with the exception of the north-east when it comes to attracting—[

Interruption

.]

Members on the SNP benches do not want to hear the facts on this, Presiding Officer, because it does not suit their narrative, but the fact is that Scotland does very badly compared with other parts of the UK in attracting legal migrants to come here and fill the vacancies that our businesses have.

What more is the Scottish Government going to do to try to make Scotland a more attractive place for the migrant workers that we need to come and work here?

Neil Gray (Scottish National Party, Airdrie and Shotts)

I have already spoken about the implementation of the talent attraction and migration service, to mitigate the difficulties that our employers have faced post-Brexit. [

Interruption

.]

The Presiding Officer

Members!

Neil Gray (Scottish National Party, Airdrie and Shotts)

Murdo Fraser must have been living in a cupboard if he has not had the level of representation from employers in his area that I have had in my area and from across Scotland about the impact that Brexit has had through cutting freedom of movement.

We continue to call on the UK Government to ensure that it has an immigration system that is more suitable to the needs of people in Scotland. I progressed that work in my previous role, alongside Mairi Gougeon—for instance, with a rural visa pilot, which many on the Conservative benches would support, despite the fact that the Secretary of State for Scotland is currently holding it up.

The Presiding Officer

That concludes general question time.

Before we move to First Minister’s question time, I invite members to join me in welcoming to the gallery the Rt Hon Catherine Gotani Hara MP, Speaker of the National Assembly of Malawi. [

Applause

.]

I also invite members to join me in welcoming Dr Husam Zomlot, head of the Palestinian Mission to the United Kingdom. [

Applause

.]

Ministerial Code

Douglas Ross (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

1. The

Daily Mail

has today reported that Scottish National Party minister Jenny Gilruth, who is sat just behind the First Minister, might have broken the ministerial code. The former Minister for Transport, whom Humza Yousaf promoted to be Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills, changed plans that had been agreed for 18 months, with just weeks to go. The original plans would have involved a small closure to rail services around her constituency for a few days just after Christmas last year, to allow essential upgrades to happen. Jenny Gilruth appears to have forced a change in order to give preferential treatment to her constituents, at a higher cost to taxpayers and far more disruption to passengers. Does the First Minister think it acceptable for a minister to make a political decision for her own benefit instead of acting in the interests of all of Scotland?

Humza Yousaf (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Pollok)

Douglas Ross is making a very serious accusation. Of course, if there are any accusations that the ministerial code is being broken, they will be appropriately investigated so, if Douglas Ross is making such an accusation, we will appropriately investigate it. However, I do not believe that the way in which Douglas Ross has characterised the situation is at all correct.

On Sunday 21 May, ScotRail’s new timetable will come into effect. That is another important step, as Scotland’s railways continue to recover.

Douglas Ross (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

What does that have to do with the question?

The First Minister

Such timetable changes happen regularly. When Jenny Gilruth was Minister for Transport, they happened for the correct reasons, according to the investigation that I did this morning, when the story that Douglas Ross talked about came into the public’s consciousness.

We have invested heavily and significantly in railway services. We are proud to have taken ScotRail back into public ownership, and every decision that we make—every decision that any transport minister under this Government has made—is for the benefit of the entire railway network, including passengers up and down the country. I do not believe that the way in which Douglas Ross has characterised the situation is what took place, but I will, of course, investigate the issue further.

Douglas Ross (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

Let us just clear up some of the things that the First Minister said. He said that he is going to investigate, but he also said that he investigated this morning and sees no fault in what Jenny Gilruth did.

He also questions my characterisation of what happened, so let us go through some of the pages and pages of the freedom of information emails that we have seen. A freedom of information response makes it clear that, instead of a few days of closures after Christmas, Jenny Gilruth pushed for changes that would lead to six weeks of disruption, including four full weekends. [

Interruption

.]

Jenny Gilruth is very keen to intervene, but I am just reading out what we have received—[

Interruption

.]

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Mr Ross, give me a moment.

I am absolutely sure that I do not need to remind members of the rules regarding behaviour in the chamber. I would be grateful if we could adhere to those rules.

Douglas Ross (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

Jenny Gilruth seems to have a lot to say about this. It would be interesting to hear what she has told the First Minister, because ScotRail advises in these emails that the plans that Jenny Gilruth put forward would mean that 9,000 more customers every day would be disrupted. ScotRail reviewed the decision and concluded that there would be

“greater costs with more customers disrupted or inconvenienced with a revised access plan”.

Jenny Gilruth’s decision to scrap those changes appears to have cost the taxpayer at least £1 million.

Scottish Rail Holdings board papers, also released under FOI, state:

“The Board is asked to note that Network Rail and ScotRail chose to do the work at this time precisely to minimise the number of passengers impacted, and Transport Scotland were fully aware of and endorsed this approach”.

How can Humza Yousaf defend Jenny Gilruth when she went against the advice of Network Rail, ScotRail and Transport Scotland?

The First Minister

First and foremost—as I remember well from my time as transport minister—whenever such decisions are made it is crucial that we engage with communities. [

Interruption

.] It is so crucial that we engage with communities to understand from them what the impact of any potential closure will be. [

Interruption

.] I can hear groans from the parties at the sides of the chamber at the mention of engaging with communities, but we always engage with our communities when it comes to any potential disruption to our transport network.

The proposed decarbonisation works on the vital rail line would have caused significant disruption right across the whole east coast of Scotland, including for passengers travelling across—yes—Fife, but also to Dundee, Perth and Aberdeen. [

Interruption

.]

The Presiding Officer

Members!

The First Minister

The former transport minister has stated that she was not content that everything was being done to minimise inconvenience over a busy festive period when people were rightly travelling up and down the country to see their loved ones, particularly in the context of disruption that was taking place due to industrial action at the time. Therefore, and rightly in my view, she asked Network Rail to postpone the works—which it agreed to do—in order to give time to engage with the communities that would be impacted by the closure.

For me, whoever the transport minister is—whether it is Jenny Gilruth, as was previously the case, or the current transport minister—it is vital that the needs of passengers are always front and centre when such decisions are made. That was clearly the case when Jenny Gilruth made that decision.

Douglas Ross (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

This is getting worse for the First Minister. He is now saying that Jenny Gilruth was right to do this. He also said that Jenny Gilruth, as the former transport minister, thought that there were problems with the matter. Well, we come to another email from 19 October 2022, which states:

“Ms Gilruth understands why they are doing it but it is not going to land well.”

She agreed with the proposal, but was worried about how it was going to land with her constituents. She should not even have been involved in the decision. She should have recused herself because of the clear potential for a conflict of interests.

Concerns were raised about the minister’s actions. One civil servant, whose name is redacted in this FOI response, said:

“It might be wise to be clear why this is appropriate for Fife in particular, because other areas might expect similar”.

The political interference might even have forced a senior executive to resign. [

Interruption

.] Chris Gibb worked in the rail industry for more than 40 years. He chaired ScotRail in 2022. He resigned just a few weeks after Jenny Gilruth’s decision—after he advised against the change. In board papers that we have seen, he raised concerns about political interference and

“micromanagement by Scottish Ministers, advisors and officials.”

First Minister, did Chris Gibb resign because of Jenny Gilruth’s inappropriate actions?

The First Minister

Douglas Ross is once again making really serious accusations without, I am afraid, any evidence. [

Interruption

.] He is hoping, because he is undoubtedly desperate, to throw as much mud as possible—[

Interruption

.]

The Presiding Officer

Members!

The First Minister

He will throw as much mud as possible and hope that some of it sticks. I say to Douglas Ross that conflicts of interests and the Conservative Party are definitely not a combination that he should look to raise. [

Interruption

.]

In response to Douglas Ross reading out the emails, I say that he is being selective in what he reads out. He forgets to mention that the disruption that would undoubtedly have been caused because of the works would have affected passengers travelling across not just Fife but to Dundee, Perth, Aberdeen and other parts of the network, too. As is absolutely right, I would expect my transport minister and any member of the Government to ensure that they take account of all those who might be impacted and affected.

I say to Douglas Ross that he should look at the facts, not just throw around mud hoping that some of it will stick. Speculation, to be frank, does not help anyone in the chamber and certainly does not help passengers for whom we are committed to improving the rail network.

Douglas Ross (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

What did not help passengers was the former Minister for Transport’s decision. She was emailed on 7 November 2022 at 17:40 and told by ScotRail that there would be greater costs and that more customers would be disrupted and inconvenienced with the revised plans. There will be at least £1 million extra in associated costs and 9,000 additional passengers every day will be affected because of the decision that she took, so the First Minister can cut out all that rubbish about standing up for passengers when it is clear that the decision that Jenny Gilruth took led to a poorer service.

It looks like there has been a clear breach of the ministerial code. Jenny Gilruth is smirking at that; well she might, because the First Minister already seems to believe that she is innocent. However, the ministerial code states that a minister “must keep separate” the role of a minister and their role as a constituency MSP.

This case looks not just like preferential treatment in the constituency but a truly awful decision that will cost taxpayers millions and lead to greater disruption. Five months on, the essential works that Jenny Gilruth delayed have still not happened. It looks like a clear-cut sackable offence. At the very least, it needs more than the First Minister looking at it over breakfast: it needs an urgent investigation now. Will the First Minister confirm to Parliament right now that he will launch an investigation into his minister today?

The First Minister

To my understanding, this is not the first time that the issue has been raised. I think that it was raised months previously, as well. Of course, I was not First Minister at the time. As I said in response to Douglas Ross’s first question, I will look at the accusations that are being made.

I say to Douglas Ross that Jenny Gilruth was not and is not also the MSP for Dundee, Perth or Aberdeen. The decisions were taken because the works would affect railway passengers right across the network, particularly in the north-east of Scotland. [

Interruption

.]

The Presiding Officer

Members!

The First Minister

From the information that I have in front of me, it seems to be pretty clear that Jenny Gilruth made those decisions so that disruption would not affect more passengers right across the network. I would have expected her to do that at the time and would expect the current Minister for Transport to do it. When vital works, particularly on decarbonisation, have to take place, we have to ask how we do them in a way that minimises disruption, particularly during the busy festive period.

I say to the Conservatives that we take the ministerial code extremely seriously, which is not something that could be said about them in any way, shape or form.

NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde

Anas Sarwar (Labour, Glasgow)

2. Next month, it will be three years since the Scottish hospitals inquiry was announced. These are the facts that we already know: first, two children died because of infections that they contracted at the Queen Elizabeth university hospital; secondly, there were serious failings by the board of NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde, which resulted in the board being put into special measures; and, thirdly, Louise Slorance, whose husband Andrew died after contracting aspergillus, was kept in the dark by a cover-up. Despite all that, the chair and chief executive of the health board still have their jobs and no one has been held responsible.

This week, the health board, under the same leadership, has shamefully refused to accept many of the oversight board’s conclusions and has even called into question the basis of the independent review that exposed fatal infections in clinically vulnerable children. Why should people who refuse to accept even the most basic facts be trusted to run Scotland’s largest health board?

Humza Yousaf (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Pollok)

Anas Sarwar has—rightly—raised those issues on many occasions. As he said in his question, a public inquiry has been taking place in relation to a number of the issues that he has raised. It is important that we do not prejudice an inquiry that is taking place and that we wait for the full outcome of that inquiry. Appropriate action will, of course, be taken on those issues. We have made it clear that it is important that we do not wait for that inquiry to finish if we can take remedial action to improve the situation.

Anas Sarwar is right to raise a number of those issues in the chamber. My understanding is that not only have many of the oversight board’s recommendations been accepted but work on them is well under way.

It is important that members across the chamber raise such issues here. My thoughts are with all the families that have been affected by the challenges that the health board has undoubtedly faced. The Cabinet Secretary for NHS Recovery, Health and Social Care and I will continue to engage with the board of NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde to ensure that the oversight board’s recommendations are taken forward.

Anas Sarwar (Labour, Glasgow)

The First Minister misses the point, which is that we are going backwards. The health board’s leadership has said that it does not accept many of the findings of the oversight board and that it now does not accept the findings of the independent case-note review that highlighted the infections. That is the point that the First Minister is missing.

As Cabinet Secretary for Health and Sport, Jeane Freeman understood that grieving families needed justice. She listened to the voices of families and campaigners, put the health board into special measures and established the inquiry. When Humza Yousaf took over from her, he was too weak and easily led—he lifted the board out of special measures and empowered the people who had failed.

Less than a year later, the leadership of the board is trying to rubbish the independent review and is questioning the accepted facts.

Kimberly Darroch, whose daughter Milly Main died, has said that the board is making the families’ lives hell. Louise Slorance said:

“Enough is enough, patients have been harmed, others lost their lives. Families lied to and bullied. For what? To protect the reputation of Scotland’s flagship hospital and that of the Scottish Government.”

Will the First Minister allow the leadership of the health board to rewrite the facts and continue to prolong the agony for those families?

The First Minister

We will absolutely hold the health board’s leadership to account in relation to the recommendations that the oversight board has made. The reason why NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde was de-escalated from special measures was that the majority of the oversight board’s recommendations had been accepted, work was under way and many of the recommendations had been completed. That is why decisions to de-escalate were made.

In relation to patients and people who have suffered—Anas Sarwar raised the cases of Milly Main and Andrew Slorance—the Cabinet Secretary for NHS Recovery, Health and Social Care and I will be happy to meet the families who are involved. We have brought forward a number of measures to improve transparency and to ensure that families get answers. Unfortunately, in rare cases, things go wrong. In April 2018, we introduced an organisational duty of candour, which places a legal duty on all health and social care organisations to be open and honest when something goes wrong.

We also introduced the Patient Safety Commissioner for Scotland Bill in response to Baroness Cumberlege’s important report. When I was the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care, I made it clear that whistleblowing is an integral and important tool that staff should use in order to raise concerns when they feel that it is necessary and appropriate to do so. In my time as Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care, I met every single whistleblowing champion from health boards up and down the country, including the whistleblowing champion at NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde.

We will do everything in our power and will absolutely hold the health board to account. In my conversations with the leadership of NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde, it certainly understood the seriousness of the issues.

In the rare times when things go wrong—the vast majority of people get a good service from our health service—the Government will ensure, on behalf of the people of Scotland, that families get the answers that they deserve.

Anas Sarwar (Labour, Glasgow)

The First Minister has not held the people responsible to account; he has empowered the people who have failed those families. Frankly, staff at the hospital, patients who have been failed and families will listen to that answer from the First Minister with rage and think that he is completely out of touch with the reality that they face every single day.

We are six years into the scandal and the established facts are being denied by a health board leadership who are prepared to do anything to protect their own jobs. Of course, that is what we have come to expect from the Scottish National Party Government. No one ever takes responsibility, and failure is rewarded with promotion. The chair of the health board is still in his job; the chief executive has been given an excellence in leadership award; the health secretary when the hospital was opened and Milly Main died is now the Deputy First Minister; and the health secretary who took the failing board out of special measures is now the First Minister. Under the SNP, failure is rewarded, incompetence is excused and the Scottish people are left suffering the consequences.

If the First Minister is too weak to stand up for those grieving families fighting for justice, how can the people of Scotland trust him to stand up for them when it really matters?

The First Minister

This is the point: Anas Sarwar can spin in any way he wishes, but the people of Scotland have continued to trust the SNP with the health service time and again. Why have they done that? They have done that because we have invested record amounts in our health service, because we steered this country through the biggest shock that the NHS has faced in its 74-year existence and, of course, because our NHS staff are the best paid anywhere in the United Kingdom.

We value our staff. I remember quite well that, following a health debate in the chamber that I took part in, Anas Sarwar, who had led for Labour, was criticised by NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde—doctors and nurses—for his politicisation of the health service in Scotland.

The decision to de-escalate NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde was made because of the evidence that we had in front of us. I am happy for Anas Sarwar to see that evidence and the details of that once again.

We will continue to make sure that, on the rare occasions when things go wrong, we do everything in our power to make sure that there is absolute transparency and that families get the answers that they want. As First Minister, I am more than happy to meet the families that Anas Sarwar mentioned, who have undoubtedly been affected by situations in which that failure has happened.

Sewage Discharges (Monitoring)

Alex Cole-Hamilton (Liberal Democrat, Edinburgh Western)

3. To ask the First Minister for what reason only 4 per cent of Scotland’s sewage discharge points are monitored, compared with 91 per cent in England. (S6F-02135)

Humza Yousaf (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Pollok)

Our approach to assessing sewage discharges is more effective than that in England. Scottish Water has completed a more extensive environmental study programme to monitor and model the impacts of its facilities on water quality. Data from monitoring is also being used to determine any actions needed to improve Scotland’s water environment. Scottish Water has already invested £686 million since 2010 in improvements, and has committed a further £500 million during 2021 to 2027. That has contributed to the Scottish Environment Protection Agency’s most recent classification, which shows that 66 per cent of Scotland’s water bodies are in good ecological condition, which compares with just 16 per cent in England. That is in line with aims to achieve 81 per cent by 2027.

Alex Cole-Hamilton (Liberal Democrat, Edinburgh Western)

The problem for the First Minister in relation to the money that he has identified for those extra monitors is that 70 per cent of all dumping point pipes will still go unobserved whereas, in England, every pipe is due to be monitored by the end of this year. When on earth will we catch up?

Look at what we have discovered in the last few weeks: human waste dumped around Scotland’s best loved beaches, wetlands of international importance and special protection areas from Shetland to the Clyde. The First Minister should take particular interest in the most-used sewage dumping outlet in Scotland, which recorded 127 releases last year—enough to run 100 million baths. He will know that site well, because it is on the bank of the Clyde in his Glasgow Pollok constituency—perhaps that is why he moved to Broughty Ferry.

Will the First minister commit today to the introduction of legally binding targets to tackle sewage dumping in Scotland?

The First Minister

I moved to Broughty Ferry so that my step-daughter could see her father more often. That is the reason why I moved there, and that is not a state secret by any stretch of the imagination.

On the serious issue that Alex Cole-Hamilton raised, we know that combined sewer overflows are a serious issue, and he was right to raise them in his question. However, they are also integral to ensuring that sewers do not, during periods of heavy rainfall, back up and end up flooding homes, businesses and streets throughout our country.

Our monitoring is more comprehensive, and I would be happy to provide Alex Cole-Hamilton with more detail on that. I have the detail of the monitoring that Scottish Water has done, and I can send it to him. That was done over a number of years, and it allows us to comprehensively monitor where the spill overflows are happening. Scottish Water is not just sitting on its hands or resting on its laurels. It has published “Improving Urban Waters—Route Map”, which outlines how we intend to invest in the Scottish water environment. A number of projects are currently under way to monitor and ensure that we make improvements to our sewer network. We take the issue extremely seriously.

I will end on the point that I started on, in response to Alex Cole-Hamilton’s first question. Notwithstanding the very serious issues that he has raised, our water quality in Scotland is very good. SEPA’s most recent classification shows that 66 per cent of Scotland’s water bodies are in good ecological condition compared with 16 per cent in England. We aim to improve that to 81 per cent by 2027.

Mercedes Villalba (Labour, North East Scotland)

Scotland’s natural environment is not just the envy of the world; it is vital to our health. Therefore, it is no surprise that reports of more than 14,000 sewage spills have prompted protests across the country, including one this Saturday in Stonehaven, which is in my region. In December 2021, Scottish Water vowed to increase the number of storm drain monitors to more than 1,000 by the end of 2024. However, according to a freedom of information response obtained by the

i

newspaper, as of 1 March this year, not a single new device had been installed. Can the First Minister tell us exactly how many of those 1,000 storm drain monitors he expects to be installed by the end of this year?

The First Minister

Of course, it was always the plan that the installation programme would take place over the course of summer 2023 and into 2024. We are still confident, and Scottish Water remains confident, that we will have those 1,000 spill monitors in place by the end of 2024. I would be happy to provide Mercedes Villalba with further detail on that if she wishes.

I go back to the point that there has been comprehensive monitoring. Scottish Water did studies between 2015 and 2021. We have extensive computer models that can allow Scottish Water to understand when the combined sewer overflows will spill—under what rainfall conditions, for example—and what impact those spills will have on the natural environment. There is a whole host of data, because of the excellent and extensive work that Scottish Water has done.

To answer Ms Villalba’s question directly, we are still confident that 1,000 spill monitors will be installed by the end of 2024.

Residential Properties (Cladding)

Kaukab Stewart (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Kelvin)

4. To ask the First Minister whether he will provide an update on the work of the Scottish Government to address potentially dangerous cladding on residential properties. (S6F-02113)

Humza Yousaf (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Pollok)

The safety of residents is, of course, an absolute priority for the Government. We are acting decisively to protect lives through a programme of cladding assessment and remediation. The current programme includes 105 buildings that will each go through a comprehensive technical assessment. Although we expect that the majority will be safe, if the assessment identifies an immediate fire risk, we will act without delay, as we have already done.

As assessments are completed, we will agree plans and take action to deliver full remediation. That means that I also expect developers to take responsibility to remediate their buildings where the public purse is not needed to do so. I urge them to do so voluntarily, but we will use all the levers at our disposal, including legislation if necessary, to remediate buildings and protect residents.

Kaukab Stewart (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Kelvin)

The First Minister will understand that people’s lives have been put on hold and that some people are at the end of their tether. Local authorities are asking for building warrants for remediation work and developers are putting safety measures in place that are severely imposing on the lives of people who live in those buildings, but many residents and constituents of mine feel that remediation is not moving quickly enough.

My constituents just want their lives back. What further measures can the Scottish Government take to further encourage local authorities and developers to work co-operatively to remove unsafe cladding from these buildings more quickly?

The First Minister

Kaukab Stewart is right to make a couple of key points. One is about the frustration of her constituents—and, perhaps, constituents in other parts of the country—because things do not seem to be moving as quickly on the ground as they would like. I understand that frustration.

Kaukab Stewart is also right to mention that we are trying to take a collaborative approach with developers, local authorities and others in relation to this particular situation. I can understand how worrying it is for those living in buildings with unsafe cladding. That is why we put the safety and wellbeing of residents at the very heart of the cladding remediation programme. Developers must do the same—they must step up and fix their buildings.

Our preference has always been to have that voluntary agreement with developers through the Scottish safer buildings accord, but let me be clear that we are putting the safety of residents first and foremost and we will use all the powers that we have. I reiterate what I said in my first answer to Kaukab Stewart that, if necessary, we will also use legislation to ensure that developers do the right thing, so that we can get on with remediating buildings in line with Scottish building standards.

Income Tax

Elizabeth Smith (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

5. To ask the First Minister what the Scottish Government’s response is to a recent poll that found that more than a third of people in Scotland would consider relocating if income taxes were increased further. (S6F-02130)

Humza Yousaf (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Pollok)

The Scottish Government is proud to have the fairest and most progressive tax system in the United Kingdom. Consideration of behavioural changes is a vital part of our tax policy decisions. Our evaluation of the move to a more progressive tax system in 2018-19 found no evidence of significant behavioural change, including in relation to cross-border migration.

That should come as no surprise, because our social contract with every citizen goes significantly beyond the provisions in the rest of the UK. It includes free prescriptions, free higher education and support for more than 400,000 children who are eligible for the Scottish child payment. We will continue on that path of progressive taxation and there will be robust analysis behind any changes that we make to the tax system.

Elizabeth Smith (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

Scottish Chambers of Commerce, the Federation of Small Businesses, the Chartered Institute of Taxation, the Institute for Fiscal Studies, Archangel Investors Ltd and D J Alexander Ltd are just some of those who are warning of the dangers of widening the tax differential with the rest of the UK. Sandy Begbie, of Scottish Financial Enterprise, is warning of the resulting effects on Scottish productivity and economic growth.

Will the First Minister give a categorical assurance that he both accepts and understands the widespread and serious concerns among the business community and that the future tax policy of the Scottish Government should be fully focused on making Scotland the most competitive part of the UK rather than the most highly taxed part of the UK?

The First Minister

What is fascinating is that, in that question from Liz Smith, she did not mention a single anti-poverty campaigner in the list that she gave. Why would she not do that? Of course, if we want to invest money in tackling poverty, we have to have the money to be able to do so. That is why progressive taxation, which allows us to increase revenue to spend on tackling poverty, is so crucial.

However, I would say to Liz Smith that of course we will listen to those organisations that she listed—I have met many of them already—and we will continue to listen to them where we possibly can. We will have robust analysis behind any decision that we make about taxation.

I do not see and have never seen a conflict between growing the economy—something that is front and centre of the prospectus that I published in the first couple of weeks of being First Minister—and ensuring that we have a progressive tax system so that we can invest in anti-poverty measures.

We will continue to make those careful balanced decisions in relation to taxation and we will make sure that we are informed by robust analysis and evidence from many of the organisations that Liz Smith mentions, as well as from the Scottish Fiscal Commission. However, if we had listened to Liz Smith and the Conservatives and given tax cuts to the wealthiest, we would have much less money to spend on things such as free prescription charges, ensuring that higher education is free and, of course, that game-changing Scottish child payment.

Ivan McKee (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Provan)

Data shows that, regardless of tax rate changes, Scotland continues to attract more working-age people from the rest of the UK than move in the other direction—about 20 per cent more annually. Although I know that the Government will do the due diligence and sensitivity analysis for any proposed tax changes, I make the point that a modest increase in inward migration from the rest of the UK to Scotland could significantly increase tax revenues by hundreds of millions of pounds to spend on public services in Scotland and support Scottish businesses with skills to tackle the challenges that they face. What is the Scottish Government doing to proactively attract more workers from the rest of the UK to live and work in Scotland?

The First Minister

Ivan McKee makes an excellent point

. [

Laughter

.] I am not sure why the Conservatives are laughing—

The Presiding Officer

Thank you, members!

The First Minister

They do not like to listen to the facts. The facts that Ivan McKee has presented are absolutely right. We have seen a modest increase in inward migration from the rest of the UK, which is an important point. Scotland’s record on inward migration from the rest of the UK dispels much of the hysteria from the Conservative Party on the impact of our tax policy.

However, it is important to recognise what more we can do, which is why we are committed to establishing a talent attraction programme and a migration service for Scotland. That will help us to build on the success that we have already had in this space. The talent attraction and migration service will improve Scotland’s ability to attract and recruit workers from outside Scotland with the skills that our economy needs. It will support international workers in the migration and relocation process and will ensure, where we have the levers over pay and terms and conditions, that we are embedding fair pay and ensuring that our staff are some of the best paid in the UK. We are doing that in the national health service, where our staff are the best paid anywhere in the UK. I hope that that helps to attract them to Scotland. We will put progressive taxation and fair pay at the heart of everything that we do in the Scottish Government, in stark contrast to the approach that has been taken by the Conservatives in England.

Social Care Workers (Sick Pay Provision)

Monica Lennon (Labour, Central Scotland)

6. I refer members to my entry in the register of members’ interests, as I am a member of the GMB trade union.

To ask the First Minister whether the Scottish Government will reintroduce the social care staff support fund, or take other action to improve sick pay provision for social care workers, in the light of reports of a survey by GMB Scotland stating that 80 per cent of social care workers in the private sector have considered quitting, and wider warnings that the care sector is on the brink of collapse. (S6F-02119)

Humza Yousaf (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Pollok)

I recognise that Monica Lennon, rightly, often raises incredibly important issues to do with adult social care. We all know that Covid-19 created an enormous challenge for the social care sector throughout the United Kingdom and in Scotland. That is why we introduced the social care staff support fund in order to support the workforce and protect our most vulnerable people. I thank the social care workforce for all the vital work that they did during the height of the pandemic and the work that they are currently doing under significant pressure and extreme challenge. Our fund continued for longer than funds in any other UK nation, but it was always a temporary measure, particularly when self-isolation rules were in place.

Fair work is central to improving recruitment, retention and staff wellbeing in the sector, so we will continue our work to promote those practices and improve pay, conditions and the workers’ voice. To that end, we have guaranteed an additional £100 million to uplift pay to £10.90 per hour, which took effect from April this year. We have made a commitment to reaching £12 an hour for adult social care workers who are delivering direct care.

Monica Lennon (Labour, Central Scotland)

Carers who are in the gallery, their colleagues and the people they care for deserve much better than that. The fund was time limited, but the crisis in social care is getting worse by the day. As was highlighted in the

Sunday Post

, carers are urging the Government to reinstate the fund because they cannot afford to get sick. Removing that financial safety net now without an alternative solution will accelerate the collapse of social care and push the NHS further into crisis.

To her credit, Jeane Freeman listened to the workers and worked with Scottish Labour to introduce the fund in the first place. Will Humza Yousaf’s Government listen, meet the workers and our unions, and do the right thing?

The First Minister

We will be happy to meet trade unions, which we do regularly. The Cabinet Secretary for NHS Recovery, Health and Social Care will do that, and I am happy to continue my engagement with trade unions.

We are taking action to address pay, which is why we funded a further pay increase to the tune of £100 million this financial year. It is also why the work that is being done to introduce legislation on a national care service and get the service up and running is vital. At the heart of that service are fair work principles, such as sectoral bargaining.

We will not wait for the national care service to be in place—work is already going on through the fair work in social care group, which has developed a set of minimum standards for terms and conditions that reflect fair work principles. Those standards include sick pay and maternity and paternity pay to assist with recruitment in the sector. We want to continue to make progress with the national care service exactly because the adult social care landscape, which involves private providers, in-house local authority providers and third sector providers, is fragmented. How much better it would be to have national consistency across the country, which we can only really achieve with the national care service.

The Presiding Officer

We move to general and constituency supplementary questions. I ask for brief questions and responses.

Puberty Blockers

Meghan Gallacher (Conservative, Central Scotland)

Scotland’s social care watchdog has said that children as young as 12 are allowed to consent to the use of puberty blockers. That guidance fails to acknowledge the interim Cass review of gender identity services in England, which identified several failings in the Tavistock centre’s management and a lack of evidence to support the use of puberty blockers. More and more brave young people are coming forward to talk openly about detransitioning, about their harrowing stories of surgery and about the lack of mental health and emotional support that they received. Does the First Minister support prescribing of puberty blockers for 12-year-olds?

Humza Yousaf (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Pollok)

I support such decisions being made by clinicians—by the people who have clinical knowledge. That is what we should do. We should trust those who have clinical expertise, as opposed to standing here in the chamber—we do not have such expertise—making judgments about what is best for young people who need gender identity services.

The Cass review has produced an interim report. It is well understood that health services in England differ quite significantly from those in Scotland. We have taken account of the interim report and we will look at the final report when it is ready. To go back to my initial point, I note that it is so important to trust clinicians, who have the medical expertise and knowledge, on such important decisions.

Renfrewshire Council (Dargavel School Provision)

Neil Bibby (Labour, West Scotland)

Renfrewshire Council’s education and children’s services policy board will meet today to discuss school provision for children in Dargavel following the council’s catastrophic school roll miscalculation. When I previously raised the issue, the expected cost to fix the mess was £20 million; it is now an incredible £75 million.

Parents are looking for the Scottish Government to help to resolve the situation. Does the First Minister agree that no child in Renfrewshire should have to pay for the council’s incompetence and lose out because of the resulting shortfall in school budgets? If so, what will the Scottish Government do to ensure accountability for this failure and ensure that the appropriate primary and secondary provision is urgently put in place?

Humza Yousaf (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Pollok)

I will ask the current Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills to have discussions with Renfrewshire Council when they can. I know that the previous education secretary was involved in discussions. It is a local authority matter. Neil Bibby has asked me to take money out of the school building programme and redistribute it to another project. He must say what school we would take that money from, because every single penny is accounted for in the current budget.

We will continue to have discussions with Renfrewshire Council, as we have done. I will ask the education secretary to touch base again with the council, because I agree with Neil Bibby’s premise that no child should feel that their education or their educational attainment has suffered as a result of any decision that has been made in national or local government.

Mental Health Awareness Week

Audrey Nicoll (Scottish National Party, Aberdeen South and North Kincardine)

The First Minister is aware that this week marks mental health awareness week, which this year has a particular focus on anxiety. As the cost of living crisis deepens and household bills soar, what action has his Government taken to mark that important period?

Humza Yousaf (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Pollok)

We know that poverty is a key driver of poor mental health and we are prioritising work to support the people who are most at risk. As part of mental health awareness week, the Minister for Social Care, Mental Wellbeing and Sport met money advice and mental health organisations just yesterday to hear at first hand the impact that the cost of living crisis is having on mental health in Scotland.

We have developed advice for front-line advisers, we have created resources for the general population on the “Mind to Mind” wellbeing web pages and we will continue to work with money advice and mental health partners on what more can be done. We continue to do everything that we can do to urge the United Kingdom Government to use all the powers at its disposal to tackle the cost of living crisis, because of the serious impact that it is having on the mental health of the population.

Child Protection (Independent Inquiry)

Miles Briggs (Conservative, Lothian)

Whistleblowers and campaigners have called on the First Minister to support an independent inquiry into the mishandling of complaints relating to child protection in Edinburgh, East Lothian, the Borders and Aberdeenshire. Campaigners believe that a wider independent inquiry is now needed in order to investigate safeguarding concerns and how reports from parents, guardians, carers, professionals and the public have been mishandled in relation to on-going unresolved child abuse and child protection concerns. The current on-going Scottish child abuse inquiry remit is narrow and focuses only on historical abuse, specifically with regard to children who live in care.

First, will the First Minister agree to meet me and the campaigners to discuss their concerns? Secondly, will the Scottish Government now take forward an independent inquiry into those concerns?

Humza Yousaf (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Pollok)

I will ensure that the appropriate minister meets Miles Briggs and, of course, I am more than happy to consider the request for a meeting from Miles Briggs, on behalf of the families. I pay credit to Miles Briggs, who has raised the issue on a number of occasions in the chamber on behalf of the families who have been affected.

This Government takes child protection absolutely seriously. In reference to the issues that Miles Briggs has raised I will, as I have said, ensure that the appropriate minister meets him as soon as possible, and I will consider the invitation to meet Miles Briggs and the families who are involved.

St Andrews University (Student Halls Rent Increases)

Mark Ruskell (Green, Mid Scotland and Fife)

In the middle of the cost of living crisis, the University of St Andrews is increasing rents in its student halls by 8 per cent. Students are at risk of being plunged into poverty as the university lines its pockets. Does the First Minister agree that a rent increase of that scale is completely unacceptable? Will he join me in calling on the university to reverse that decision?

Humza Yousaf (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Pollok)

That is a decision for the university to make, but I completely understand why Mark Ruskell raises that important issue. As he knows only too well, we have introduced legislation for ensuring fair rents where appropriate, but there might be areas where we can go further, so we are exploring that quite actively. I agree with Mark Ruskell that everybody in our fantastic educational institutes—in this case, higher education, but it applies also to further education—should absolutely be aware of the responsibilities that they have for students who are, undoubtedly, suffering from a Westminster cost of living crisis that is impacting everybody—in particular, of course, our students.

The Presiding Officer

That concludes First Minister’s questions. There will be a short suspension before the next item of business.

12:48 Meeting suspended.

12:50 On resuming—

Fostering Friendly Employers Scheme

Annabelle Ewing (Scottish National Party, Cowdenbeath)

The next item of business is a members’ business debate on motion S6M-08721, in the name of Rona Mackay, on supporting foster carers in the workplace through the fostering friendly

employers scheme. The debate will be concluded without any question being put.

Motion debated,

That the Parliament recognises Foster Care Fortnight, taking place from 15 to 28 May 2023; notes the view that more flexible and supportive workplaces are needed, to assist foster carers in employment, and, in turn, encourage more working people to foster; understands that research carried out by the Fostering Network found that 41% of foster carers combine their role with other employment in Scotland, while 60% of foster carers said that a fostering-friendly HR policy would help them to work while fostering; believes that workplaces becoming Fostering Friendly Employers (FFE) helps to provide foster carers with additional support and raises awareness of the extra demands placed on them to nurture what it sees as some of the most vulnerable people in society; understands that there are presently 4,623 children in foster care in Scotland; is grateful for the 3,716 fostering families in this country and commends their hard work and the unconditional love that they give to the children in their care; understands that 500 more fostering families are needed; further understands that being part of the Fostering Network’s FFE scheme ensures that foster carers have the opportunity for paid leave for training, respite, meetings and other requirements to fulfil what it sees as their vital role; acknowledges that the theme during Foster Care Fortnight 2023 is Fostering Communities, and believes that being an FFE is a great example of how the wider fostering community can provide support, understanding and respect, which is entirely in line with The Promise.

Rona Mackay (Scottish National Party, Strathkelvin and Bearsden)

Nothing is more important than giving a child the best start in life and a loving, stable home, and nothing is more important than ensuring that the thousands of children who, through no fault of their own, are fostered get that best start.

The Scottish Government is passionate about fulfilling the Promise and ensuring that care-experienced children are protected and loved, and I am very proud of our continuing commitment to them.

The theme of today’s debate, which takes place during foster care fortnight, which runs from now until 28 May, is fostering communities. Delivered by the leading fostering charity, the Fostering Network, it focuses on how employers can support employees who are going through the fostering process. The fostering friendly employers scheme would ensure that foster carers have the opportunity for paid leave for training, respite meetings and other requirements to fulfil their vital role.

I hope that the theme will help to boost awareness of the need for more foster carers and make employers think about how they could help employees to fulfil their wish to help children.

Thousands of new foster families are needed every year to care for children, with the greatest need being for foster carers for older children, sibling groups, disabled children and unaccompanied asylum-seeking children. There are currently 4,623 children in foster care in Scotland and 3,716 fostering families. We need to thank them for their hard work and for the love that they give to the children in their care. However, 500 more fostering families are needed, and I will outline how employers can support them at no cost to their business other than giving them time.

The Fostering Network set up the fostering friendly employers scheme in 2014 in response to the finding that foster carers need more flexibility and understanding from their employers in order to work alongside fostering. There are more than 120 fostering friendly employers in the United Kingdom, and the number is growing. Collectively, they employ more than half a million staff. The recent news that John Lewis has joined the scheme is great, and I expect other large companies to follow.

The Fostering Network found that 41 per cent of foster carers in Scotland combined their role with other employment, while 60 per cent of foster carers said that a fostering friendly human resources policy would help them to work while fostering. Flexibility is the key to helping employees through the fostering process.

I can speak from personal experience as an employer—my head of office, Paul, has adopted siblings and went through a thorough and detailed process that began with fostering. Obviously, it involves getting time for meetings, phone calls and social work appointments. Now, when I see his happy thriving children, I know that every absence from the office was worth it. Nothing could be more important than the selfless act of offering one’s home to children and, in the case of Paul and his husband Mark, nurturing them for life.

I am proud to say that I am the first MSP to sign up to the Fostering Network’s fostering friendly employers scheme. I have no doubt that many more colleagues from across the chamber will follow suit.

A foster carer who works for a fostering friendly employer said:

“Being employed, being a mum and foster carer is hard to get to grips with at first. You have your own commitments, but I’ve had fantastic managers. I was honest with them at the beginning and said, ‘Look, this is what we’re going through’. When emergency placements came up, I sent my manager a text in the middle of the night to say, ‘We’ve just taken a placement so I’m going to be late in the morning’. He would reply, ‘It’s not a problem. Don’t worry about it’.”

One business said:

“the impact for us as a company is relatively small, but the impact for any potential child being fostered could be significant.”

In February, I was privileged to host a reception in the Parliament for the Fostering Network. It was a wonderful evening, hearing inspirational stories from foster parents and meeting some of their happy children, who were an absolute delight.

What does being a fostering friendly employer entail, and how does an employer become one? The Fostering Network has a template for a fostering-friendly HR policy, which is available by inquiry, and its scheme is free to join. Signing up to the scheme means supporting staff by providing five days’ paid leave a year for fostering related activity. The policy applies to staff who have three months or more employment service with a company, and they are eligible if they are applying to become a foster carer, if they are an approved foster carer and have a child in placement or if they are an approved kinship carer.

Such employers are committed to supporting any staff member who is a foster carer or an approved kinship carer by creating a fostering friendly office that offers flexible working arrangements that respond to the needs of all staff who are foster carers or approved kinship carers. Those needs could include time for assessment and training prior to approval as a foster carer, attendance at a panel for approval, child review meetings, annual foster care review meetings or training. In short, the scheme allows people to prepare to become foster carers and to take time off work without losing holidays or money, but it has very little impact on a business.

Together, we could transform, support and recognise foster carers in the workplace, which would, in turn, encourage more people to foster. Employers can play a critical part in creating fostering communities by supporting foster carers to give children a loving home. That is surely the greatest gift of all.

Ruth Maguire (Scottish National Party, Cunninghame South)

I thank Rona Mackay for securing the debate on supporting foster carers in the workplace. I recognise and applaud her personal commitment in that regard.

Foster carers provide care in a family setting for children who cannot live with their own families. There are many reasons why children come into care. Foster care can last weeks, months or for the rest of a childhood, depending on the child’s circumstances.

Foster care fortnight is happening right now—15 May until 28 May—and, in my area, the council’s families for children team is keen to attract new carers. To support that, it is hosting an information event from 10 till 3 on Monday 5 June in Irvine’s volunteer rooms for people who are interested in becoming a foster carer. It will be a relaxed drop-in session that will provide information on fostering and adoption opportunities to people who would like to know more. Some of North Ayrshire’s foster carers will be there on the day to share their experiences. I understand that the team is particularly keen to hear from people who feel that they could offer a home to children who have disabilities and those who could take a small family group so that siblings can remain together.

There is no such thing as a typical foster carer. They can be single, co-habiting or married. There are flexible options for foster care, with different arrangements possible. Those include providing short breaks, interim fostering or longer-term support for young people.

I was struck by the personal testimony of North Ayrshire foster carers who shared their experiences ahead of the event. I would like to share some of them with members now. Susanne has been a North Ayrshire foster carer for six years, mainly providing short breaks for young people. She said:

“I became a foster carer because one of my friends was a foster carer, and I witnessed how she had made such a difference to the wee boy she was looking after. She had made such a difference to his life, and I thought that would be something I would like to give to another child.

I enjoy seeing the progress that the children in my care are making. It’s really good to see them thrive and be part of the community, and just see them progressing.”

She said that she feels that there is a good network for carers at the council. There are training facilities, and carers meet up for training and socially for a coffee. She urged folk who are thinking of becoming a foster carer to pick up the phone and contact the health and social care partnership. She said that getting more information, speaking to carers and having an informal chat can be helpful.

Sonya is another experienced foster carer in North Ayrshire. She has been looking after children for almost 20 years and is currently caring for young people on a long-term, short-term and respite basis. She is also an adoptive parent. She shared this:

“At the moment, I have got three children and one young person on a continuing care basis, which is when you look after a child who reaches the age of 18, and they can stay with you for as long as you wish, and they go on to be supported by throughcare services, which offers support up to the age of 26.”

Sonya decided to investigate fostering after seeing an advert in her local newspaper, and she initially cared for two young boys who came into her family when they were aged just two and 15 months. They have now moved on to live with a family member. She describes them as being the light of her life. She added:

“They came in and they made our whole family’s life great—that’s the only way to describe it. Now, they visit me every year.

The bond that me and the boys have got is second to none. It’s like having your own birth child … there is no difference there. For me, that’s what fostering is about. If you can take a child on, they don’t need to be your birth child to love them and give them the security they need.”

According to figures from the Fostering Network’s report, nearly 40 per cent of foster carers combine fostering with other work. Those who do so say that a supportive employer can make all the difference in enabling them to balance employment with looking after children.

I will be following Rona Mackay’s lead in exploring how, as an employer, I can sign up to the scheme, and I encourage employers of all sizes in my constituency to have a look at the scheme. In providing an opportunity to make a difference for families and children in our local community and to provide improved support for employees, it represents a win for everyone.

Roz McCall (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

I, too, thank Rona Mackay for bringing the subject of the fostering friendly employers scheme to the chamber for debate and for her detailed explanation of the scheme. By now, it is well known among members that I relish the opportunity to speak on the topic of foster care. I hope that members will not mind me taking a slightly wider view.

I make no apologies for stating that we must do more for vulnerable people in our society. In most cases, we are talking about children and young people who have lived through multiple traumatic events, heightened uncertainties and delayed brain development. In many cases, those children are in their infancy. The shocking statistic that a quarter of child protection orders are for children under 20 days old highlights the urgency of the matter.

I appreciate the work that charity groups such as the WAVE Trust and the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children do to highlight the plight of vulnerable children, and I applaud their efforts in successfully drawing attention to Scotland’s baby blind spot and initiatives such as the 70/30 campaign, which works towards achieving a 70 per cent reduction in the number of children who experience maltreatment by 2030. That is a target that we must meet.

Right now in Scotland, we have 3,716 families who have stepped forward to provide a sense of stability and safety for our most vulnerable children by fostering. Those fostering families are trying to repair the psychological effects of trauma and to ensure that a secure environment, including care and love, is provided for the 4,623 children who currently need to be fostered. Those 3,716 fostering families should be valued in more ways than by simply having words of support spoken about them within the walls of this chamber.

Foster parents and kinship carers in Scotland live in the only area of the United Kingdom not to have a minimum carers allowance. It would be remiss of me not to mention that again, as time keeps marching on and nothing seems to change on that count.

I am glad that we are taking the time to focus on the fostering friendly employers scheme. I fully back anything that will help foster carers and adoption families to support the child in their care. However, I must sound a cautionary note. It is imperative that businesses, regardless of their size, can buy into the scheme as easily as is stated.

Over the years, businesses have managed to adapt to changes in working practices. When I started working, which was not yesterday—in fact, it was so long ago that flexi time was still new—most people used flexi time to swing their working day an hour to either side. That might have involved starting an hour earlier and leaving at 4 or coming in slightly later and working until 6. That was excellent for working parents and easy for many large businesses to accommodate. However, smaller businesses could not accommodate it. It was necessary to have the economies of scale to make variable working work. Small independently owned businesses could not, and still do not, operate in that way.

We have come a long way from the days of 9-to-5 working in the office, and I am encouraged by the fact that working flexibility and working-from-home practices are now accepted, especially as we know that that helps working carers. However, small businesses still find it difficult to embrace such processes and to continue to work efficiently. That needs to be recognised, and it must be recognised in this case. To make the scheme work for fostering families, we must ensure that small businesses in all communities can buy into it.

I also draw members’ attention to kinship carers and adoptive parents. We too often forget that the same issues apply to fosterers, adopters and kinship carers. All children who live with a family member or with an adoptive or foster family have experienced the same trauma and uncertainty in their early lives, so it goes without saying that all those families would benefit from more understanding workplaces. If we truly want to have a system that puts the welfare of children at its heart, we must ensure that the benefits are accessible, regardless of who the care provider is.

Those children are the most vulnerable in our society. It is time that we raised their profile and started to truly value the people who care for them.

Pam Duncan-Glancy (Labour, Glasgow)

It is a privilege to speak on behalf of Scottish Labour and I thank Rona Mackay for securing the debate.

Foster care fortnight provides us with a welcome opportunity to reflect on the importance of fostering and to highlight that there is much more to do to support those who foster.

Currently, 41 per cent of foster carers in Scotland juggle their fostering duties with other employment, which demonstrates their remarkable commitment and dedication. We must do more to help them, by creating an environment in which foster carers can balance their fostering and professional roles. According to research carried out by the Fostering Network, 60 per cent of foster carers believe that a fostering friendly human resources policy would help them to do that. It is crucial that workplaces are both supportive and flexible in accommodating the unique demands placed on foster carers. As we have already heard, by becoming fostering friendly employers, workplaces not only provide additional support to foster carers but raise awareness of the invaluable role that those carers play.

There are currently 4,623 children in foster care in Scotland and I thank the 3,716 families who care for them. I pay tribute to one particular foster carer, Margaret Cowie of Rutherglen. She has dedicated more than 30 years to fostering, providing unwavering love and a stable and nurturing environment for the children in her care, and enabling them to grow and thrive. Her hard work and dedication, like that of the thousands of others who do the same across the country, are truly remarkable. I hope that members will indulge me in wishing Margaret a happy 60th birthday. I know that she is looking forward to celebrating with her foster children this weekend.

Although there are absolute gems like Margaret right across the country, there are simply not enough foster carers. Scotland has a shortfall of around 500 fostering families and that shortage emphasises the urgency of creating an environment that attracts more people and families to become foster carers. Participation in the fostering friendly employer scheme means that foster carers can access crucial benefits such as paid leave for training or respite meetings and other essential requirements. Those provisions support foster carers to effectively fulfil their vital role.

As we have heard, this year’s foster care fortnight focuses on the theme of fostering communities. Becoming a fostering friendly employer is a prime example of how the wider fostering community can come together to provide support, understanding and respite for foster carers. By embracing that initiative, we demonstrate our commitment to the Promise and reaffirm our dedication to nurturing looked-after children.

Fostering is not the responsibility of foster carers alone. There is a well-known saying that it takes a village to raise a child. We need entire communities to come together to support foster families in their selfless commitment to the children that they care for. It is our collective duty to create a network of support that extends beyond foster carers and their families to schools, employers, healthcare providers, social workers and local organisations, who must all work hand in hand to provide holistic support for foster carers. We must develop a culture of understanding, compassion and respect for the families who open their hearts and homes.

As we celebrate foster care fortnight 2023, let us recommit ourselves to the principles of the Promise, ensuring that every child in foster care receives the love, care and opportunities that they deserve. Together, let us build a future in which no child feels alone or neglected and in which every child knows the warmth of a nurturing family.

Natalie Don (Scottish National Party, Renfrewshire North and West)

I thank Rona Mackay for initiating this debate and I thank members for their contributions. This is a really important issue and I am completely supportive of ensuring that workplaces are more flexible for foster carers.

This debate, which is my first as a member of the Government, has provided us collectively, as a Parliament, with an opportunity to recognise the Fostering Network’s annual foster care fortnight. It is also an excellent opportunity for us all to recognise foster carers and acknowledge the vital difference that they make to the lives of our children and young people.

Today, I published a letter to all foster carers thanking them for all that they do, but I would also like to put on the record my sincere and heartfelt thanks to all foster carers and practitioners who work in the sector. We absolutely recognise the key role that you play in providing secure, nurturing and supportive homes for children and young people across Scotland. What you do day in, day out positively transforms lives.

I also take this opportunity to add my thanks to the Fostering Network Scotland—members of which are here with us today, and whom I met before the debate—for all the work that it does in organising foster care fortnight and raising the profile and awareness of fostering more generally.

As Rona Mackay highlights in her motion and as others have mentioned in their speeches, there are challenges, including with the retention and recruitment of foster carers, but there are also opportunities for everyone across the chamber, local and national Government, the third sector, local communities and, importantly, employers in supporting our foster carers.

There is absolutely no doubt that the pressure within the foster care system is an area that we need to address collectively in order to fully deliver on the Promise, and I am absolutely clear that it is vital that the Scottish Government leads from the front if we are to ensure that all care-experienced children and young people are supported to grow up loved, safe and respected.

We set out our commitment to do that in the Promise implementation plan, which was published last year. In the plan, we outline our vision for delivering a good childhood to ensure that

“Every child lives in a safe and loving home where families are given support to overcome difficulties and stay together.”

We are also clear that investing in a programme of comprehensive, on-going support for care givers is key to ensure that they have the skills, knowledge and confidence to continue to nurture the children in their care and build stable and loving relationships.

Work has begun on delivering that vision. We have committed to an investment of £500 million over the current session of Parliament in our whole-family wellbeing programme of activity. That will transform services to ensure that families, including foster families, can access the support that they need where and when they need it. We also allocated £50 million in this year’s budget, including £32 million that has been provided directly to children’s services planning partnerships, to enable work at local level.

We provide funding to the third sector to support foster carers. That includes over £150,000 to the Fostering Network Scotland this year to support the Fosterline Scotland service, training for foster carers and encouraging the recruitment of new carers.

The Scottish Government is also working with a small group of partners including the Fostering Network, the Promise Scotland, local authorities and others to look at how we attract and retain foster carers and what action we can take collectively to make that happen. The group is expected to conclude its work over the coming months, but I know that it is considering a package of support for foster carers that includes both financial and practical elements so that care givers feel better valued and supported.

On the financial side, I reassure Parliament that it remains a priority of this Government to deliver a Scottish recommended allowance for foster and kinship carers to meet the needs of children in their care as soon as possible. It has taken far longer than was originally anticipated and I recognise the frustrations of care givers and stakeholders, but positive progress is being made with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities and we are working at pace to make that happen.

Allowances are important, of course, but they are not the whole picture. Foster carers need to be supported so that they can, in turn, support children who have often had a very difficult start in life to grow and develop in a stable and nurturing family home. We have already committed in our Promise implementation plan to publishing what we will do to provide trauma training and support for adoptive parents and kinship and foster carers, and the group that I mentioned earlier is also considering wider learning and development, including peer support.

As Pam Duncan-Glancy highlighted, foster carers often juggle looking after children with other employment, and I am well aware of how hard that can be.

The group is actively considering how employers in the wider community can support foster carers. The fostering friendly employers scheme is a positive example of how supportive and flexible employers can help foster carers to combine employment with the vital role that they play in looking after some of our most vulnerable children and young people.

I am absolutely committed to ensuring that the voices of those with lived experience are at the heart of everything that we do, and I am committed to working with foster carers in Scotland, and stakeholders who represent fostering, as we develop any changes to policy and practice on our journey to keep the Promise.

That is why, today, in recognition of the positive benefits that the fostering friendly employers scheme brings, I commit the Scottish Government to considering how it can become a more flexible workplace for foster carers as well as to exploring take-up of the scheme in order to support and promote it further. I thank Rona Mackay for being the first MSP to sign her office up to the scheme, and I encourage others to do so.

I conclude by thanking Rona Mackay for the debate, as it has given us the opportunity to debate foster carers and everything that they do and to consider how they can be further supported.

Again, I thank Scotland’s foster carers for their service and commitment. There is absolutely no doubt that you improve the lives of the children and young people in your care and make our collective vision for children in Scotland—to grow up safe and loved—a reality. Thank you.

13:16 Meeting suspended.

14:00 On resuming—

Education and Skills

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

The first item of business this afternoon is portfolio questions. I remind members who wish to ask a supplementary question that they should press their request-to-speak buttons during the relevant question. We are focusing on education and skills. I make the usual plea for brevity in both questions and answers.

International Student Visas (Impact of Marking Delays)

Maggie Chapman (Green, North East Scotland)

1. To ask the Scottish Government what discussions it has had with the United Kingdom Government and universities regarding the potential impact on visas for international students at Scottish universities of any delays in marking assessments. (S6O-02244)

Graeme Dey (Scottish National Party, Angus South)

Although immigration arrangements are fully reserved, it is vital that Scotland attracts and retains talented people to study and work here without undue barriers. Although the Scottish Government welcomed the launch of the graduate visa, we continue to engage with the UK Government on ways to improve the system so that it reflects our specific economic, demographic and social needs.

On industrial action, I am of course concerned about any adverse impact on students, but I know that our universities are putting in place appropriate mitigations to minimise disruption to studies. I would expect that to include mitigations for international students, which are currently being worked up.

Although matters concerning pay and working conditions are for universities to determine on a UK-wide basis, I encourage Scottish university employers and trade unions to engage in constructive and meaningful dialogue in pursuit of a resolution.

Maggie Chapman (Green, North East Scotland)

The minister will be aware that the current marking and assessment boycott is part of more than four years of industrial action, including strikes by University and College Union members, because their pay and conditions continue to degrade. They know that their actions will affect students, but staff employment conditions are students’ learning conditions, and the deterioration of one is bad for the other. Ensuring the quality and timely administration of degrees, including for international students, is the responsibility of universities’ management.

Will the minister outline what, if any, further engagement is planned to ensure that management responds to staff concerns about making their lives liveable, whether he considers intimidation with financial penalties to be appropriate, and what more the Scottish Government can do to ensure that international students on visas are not adversely affected?

Graeme Dey (Scottish National Party, Angus South)

Presiding Officer, you will allow me a moment to answer that in some detail.

Universities are autonomous institutions and, as such, matters concerning pay and working conditions are for them to determine in consultation with trade unions. However, I have met university leaders and will meet the UCU in the coming weeks. I am encouraging all concerned to get back around the table, because industrial action benefits nobody, least of all the students.

Regarding the possibility of institutions imposing financial penalties on staff who are involved in the marking boycott, I would expect fair work principles to be applied. I was pleased to see Queen Margaret University step back from its initial stance in that regard.

In response to concerns about the impact on international students, the Scottish Funding Council and the Quality Assurance Agency for Higher Education have indicated that there is scope for the marking boycott to affect aspects of international students’ studies. I understand that there are circumstances in which students can apply to extend their study visa, but that there is a cost associated with that.

I know that universities are taking steps to mitigate the impact of a boycott, particularly on fourth-year students. However, clearly, all that would best be avoided. I therefore encourage both sides to resume discussions.

Online Pornography (Education on Dangers)

Pauline McNeill (Labour, Glasgow)

2. To ask the Scottish Government what it is doing to help educate children and young people about any dangers of online pornography. (S6O-02245)

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

Through the Scottish curriculum, curriculum for excellence, secondary school pupils learn about the damaging and exploitative aspects of pornography and how it can negatively affect mental health and healthy relationships. Pupils learn about that topic as part of their learning in relationships, sexual health and parenthood education.

Pauline McNeill (Labour, Glasgow)

The cabinet

secretary might be aware that, earlier this month, the Children’s Commissioner for England published a second report on the impact of pornography on children. The report focuses on the harms that children face from accessing violent pornography and how that might influence their own harmful sexual behaviour. That is why regulation of online material is so critical to the protection of children and young people. I agree with the Children’s Commissioner for England that no child should be able to access or watch pornography.

Worryingly, the report found that one victim said that their abuser made references to things that he had seen on porn. Two young girls said that they felt that they had been treated like porn stars by their abuser. I have mentioned the lack of data in Scotland in relation to the matter in the chamber previously. Does the cabinet secretary think that it is important to collect that type of data? Should the new Children and Young People’s Commissioner Scotland consider the collection of such data a priority?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

Pauline McNeill raises a really important matter. I have not been sighted of the report from the Children’s Commissioner for England that she mentioned. I will certainly be apprised of it following portfolio questions because it is hugely important that we have a granular understanding of the challenge in Scotland.

On the point that Pauline McNeill made about regulation, regulation of the internet is a reserved matter and falls to the United Kingdom Government. We have been engaging with the UK Government on the Online Safety Bill, which would introduce additional measures to protect vulnerable children online. Pauline McNeill has made a valid poin.

I look forward to working with the new children’s commissioner who will take up post later this year.

Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (Support for Teachers and Educators)

Stuart McMillan (Scottish National Party, Greenock and Inverclyde)

3. To ask the Scottish Government what plans it has to better support teachers and educators who work with learners with ADHD. (S6O-02246)

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

We want all children and young people, including those who have ADHD, to get the support that is needed for them to reach their full potential. We work closely with partners, including Education Scotland, to ensure that teaching staff have access to a range of free professional learning and developmental resources. Those include free learning modules for practitioners on inclusive practice that are available via the Open University.

On 30 November last year, we published our updated additional support for learning action plan, which outlines further work that we will take on ASL to ensure that teaching staff continue to receive training to support all children with additional support needs, including those with ADHD.

Stuart McMillan (Scottish National Party, Greenock and Inverclyde)

Although I recognise that Scotland’s teaching staff are committed to providing all children and young people in their care with the support that they need to succeed, too many occasions have been brought to my attention on which, for a variety of reasons, that has not been done to the parents’ satisfaction. Will the cabinet secretary indicate whether the Scottish Government will consider publishing updated guidance for teachers and educators on how best to support children and young people with ADHD, including those who do not have a diagnosis but present with ADHD symptoms?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

As Stuart McMillan outlined, in our model of additional support for learning, support in school does not require a formal diagnosis of a particular condition. However, I recognise that a diagnosis can help families and our young people to understand how they can better deal with and respond to additional support needs. More broadly, other professionals who work in our education sector but are not teachers can help to provide specialism in that regard, too.

Through our additional support for learning action plan, we have committed to building on and developing the suite of resources that are already available to meet the needs of children and young people. As part of that work, the project board sub-group on training and resources will consider how to improve the support for neurodiverse learners, including those with ADHD.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

We have a number of supplementaries and I want to get them all in. They will need to be reasonably brief, as will the responses.

Daniel Johnson (Labour, Edinburgh Southern)

I remind the chamber that I am the vice chair of the ADHD Foundation and have an ADHD diagnosis myself. With as many as one in five children in the classroom having a neurodevelopmental disorder, training in teaching children with neurodevelopmental disorders should be not optional but something that all teachers must have. Will the cabinet secretary confirm what conversations she has had with the General Teaching Council for Scotland about incorporating that in initial teacher education?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

A number of teaching unions raised the issue with me directly over the weekend. I recognise some of the challenges in our classrooms. It is worth putting on record the increase in the number of pupils with additional support needs in Scotland’s schools. I think that, since 2010, there has been an increase of more than 30 per cent, which is quite substantial. In the past year alone, there has been an increase of more than 8,000 pupils being reported as having an additional support need.

It is crucial that our teaching staff have the professional support that Daniel Johnson spoke to. Of course, the GTCS has a crucial role to play in that regard. It has a requirement that 35 hours of professional development for teachers be completed within the year. What that development focuses on is at the teacher’s discretion but I take the member’s point on working with the GTCS on the issue, particularly noting the national increase in recent years in the number of additional support needs in our schools.

Pam Gosal (Conservative, West Scotland)

In February, members of the Education, Children and Young People Committee were told that

“provision for young disabled people when they move on from school is a national disgrace.”

and that for young people transitioning out of school,

“It is a messy and terrifying place out there at the moment, particularly given the lack of co-ordinated plans.”—[

Official Report

,

Education, Children and Young People Committee

, 1 February 2023; c 18.]

With our college and university sectors strapped for cash, what action is the Scottish National Party Government taking to support individuals with ASN who attend university and college?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

I will not answer on the specifics about universities and colleges because the initial question was focused on school education, although I would be happy to write to Pam Gosal on the transition period. I recognise that it is potentially a challenge for some young people.

In relation to school education, we have co-ordinated support plans—CSPs—that follow, or should follow, a young person as they transition, for example, from primary to secondary. It is really imperative that we in Government work with our partners in the university sector and in colleges to ensure that that co-ordinated support plan is followed through.

I would be more than happy to write to the member with some additional information in relation to the specific point on higher education.

Martin Whitfield (Labour, South Scotland)

The questions today have mentioned ADHD and additional support needs. I go back to the original question about ADHD, which is a disability. Article 23 of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, on which evidence is being taken today, gives a right to “special care” in education for children with a disability.

Can the Scottish Government explain how it is meeting that requirement for special care in education with the support that is being given to ADHD sufferers?

The Deputy Presiding Officer

Be as brief as possible, cabinet secretary.

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

A direct response to the member’s question is that we currently have the highest record of support staff in our schools. In 2022, 307 additional pupil support assistants were recruited, which built on the increase of more than 1,000 from the previous year, bringing the total number of pupil support staff to 16,606. That increase is a direct result of continued investment from the Government.

However, I recognise the member’s point that, more broadly, we will need to go further to ensure that the increase in additional support needs in our schools is adequately supported in our classrooms.

I committed over the weekend to working with the teaching unions on that very issue and I have already committed to the member’s colleagues that I will work directly with the GTCS on the professional requirements for teachers as they undergo teacher training.

Universal Free School Meals

Jeremy Balfour (Conservative, Lothian)

4. To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on its plans to roll out universal free school meals. (S6O-02247)

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

We remain committed to the expansion of free school meals in primary and special schools as described in our programme for government. All primary school pupils in primaries 1 to 5, children in funded early learning and childcare and eligible pupils in primary 6 through to secondary 6 can benefit from free meals in Scotland—the most generous provision anywhere in the United Kingdom—which saves parents £400 per eligible child per year.

Our additional investment that was announced in December 2022 will continue to fund the expansion of free school meals to all primary 6 and 7 pupils who are in receipt of the Scottish child payment. That will be the next step in fulfilling our commitment to universal provision in primary schools.

Jeremy Balfour (Conservative, Lothian)

Three weeks ago, the cabinet secretary said that the Scottish National Party was committed to piloting free school meals in secondary schools. However, the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister have suggested that a targeted approach would be better. Can the cabinet secretary clear up that confusion and confirm whether the SNP Government is committed to piloting universal free school meals in secondary schools? If so, when will that start?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

As the member said, the issue was raised in the chamber only three weeks ago. We are still very much committed to that secondary school pilot. It is important that we roll out that pilot so that we can learn how things might operate.

As I intimated in my initial response, we are also committed to universal provision in primary schools. That is being phased in through a process in which we are adhering to the Scottish child payment as a requirement for primary 6 and 7 pupils. However, we remain committed to universal roll-out in primary schools and to the secondary school pilot that the member mentioned.

Monica Lennon (Labour, Central Scotland)

At the food for thought parliamentary reception last week, young people made it really clear that hunger does not end at the primary school gate, so the pilot scheme for secondary schools is important. What steps will the Government take to ensure that young people are involved in co-designing the pilot scheme and in the on-going roll-out of universal free school meals?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

I was not in Parliament last Thursday, but I saw from social media that the event was well attended. I look forward to working with Monica Lennon on the issue, which we discussed at a previous portfolio question time. She makes a very valid point about co-design, and I would be more than happy to meet her to discuss that.

I have not yet met officials to talk about some of the proposals in relation to the secondary school pilot and how it might be administered in the future. I am more than happy to engage with the member on that really important issue for young people and with our young people directly on the roll-out.

Modern Apprenticeships (Motherwell and Wishaw)

Clare Adamson (Scottish National Party, Motherwell and Wishaw)

5. To ask the Scottish Government what it is doing to promote modern apprenticeships to constituents in Motherwell and Wishaw. (S6O-02248)

Graeme Dey (Scottish National Party, Angus South)

Skills Development Scotland provides an all-age career service in every local authority to highlight the options that are available to people across Scotland, including modern apprenticeships. SDS undertakes further activity, together with employers, to highlight the importance of modern apprenticeships, particularly through Scottish apprenticeship week.

Developing the Young Workforce facilitates engagement between employers and schools to highlight vocational pathways and support young people to transition into work. I met young people on work experience at a recent DYW Lanarkshire visit to Enevate Homes in Wishaw to observe that at first hand.

Clare Adamson (Scottish National Party, Motherwell and Wishaw)

Today, I was delighted to attend the skills demonstration outside the Parliament that was hosted by the Scottish Traditional Building Forum, where I tried my hand at some slate cutting. I do not think that it is something that I see in my future, but seeing young people engaging in those endeavours was very exciting.

I understand that the initiative has not yet been rolled out across the country. Does the minister agree that supporting such heritage skills workshops through local schools is vital to promoting rewarding careers and delivering on the objectives of the developing the young workforce strategy?

Graeme Dey (Scottish National Party, Angus South)

I also tried the slate cutting, and I have to admit that the results are sitting in my office, not in public view.

The Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee is right to highlight the importance of ensuring that we have the right traditional skills available to sustain our historic environment and progress our journey to net zero. Historic Environment Scotland continues to champion traditional skills and works with stakeholders to address traditional skill gaps to ensure that Scotland’s historic buildings can thrive as part of the country’s sustainable future. The role of colleges in all that will be essential, as will be the partnership working that I indicated.

Meghan Gallacher (Conservative, Central Scotland)

Modern apprenticeships are essential to training and upskilling our workforce. Many constituents across my region will be concerned about the sector’s future and viability. Last week, the Scottish Training Federation said:

“Scottish Government delays in setting its skills and employability budgets this year is having a devastating impact on training providers. Many have made staff redundant, and several are on the brink of closure.”

If that comes to pass, it will have a devastating impact in my region, including in the Motherwell and Wishaw constituency. I say to the minister that this is a matter of urgency. When will the Scottish Government get its act together and support the industry? When will those budgets be confirmed?

Graeme Dey (Scottish National Party, Angus South)

That was a typically positive contribution from the Conservatives.

We have been focused on delivering the target of 25,000 modern apprenticeships. As part of that process, Skills Development Scotland has been redistributing some places that have not been taken up—it is doing that as we speak.

On the budget, that matter is being worked on just now, and we will provide further detail in due course.

Foysol Choudhury (Labour, Lothian)

Outside Parliament today, there is a construction and traditional skills demonstration, with young people from the industry delivering mini master classes to school pupils. I spoke with students who emphasised the importance of industry-based courses at colleges and universities across Scotland. They highlighted how important skills-based labour courses are to our heritage sector and how positively they can contribute to industry recruitment overall. Can the minister advise how the withdrawal of funding to universities and colleges is expected to impact on those essential industry-based courses?

Graeme Dey (Scottish National Party, Angus South)

I

think that that betrays a lack of understanding of what the £46 million was for. It was transition funding. The actual teaching grant remained at the same level as it was last year. I recognise that that will still present challenges for some of our colleges and universities, but I know that they are committed to preserving some of these skills in partnership with the heritage agencies.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

Question 6 was not lodged.

Colleges and Universities (Funding)

Sandesh Gulhane (Conservative, Glasgow)

7. To ask the Scottish Government what impact the withdrawal of £46 million of funding for colleges and universities has had on their ability to deliver courses. (S6O-02250)

Graeme Dey (Scottish National Party, Angus South)

The removal of the £46 million does not impact the core teaching fund that was allocated to colleges and universities for academic year 2023-24, which has been maintained at the same level as it was for academic year 2022-23, despite the very challenging financial environment. [

Interruption

.]

I hear Stephen Kerr chuntering from a sedentary position but, as he heard at yesterday’s meeting of the Education, Children and Young People Committee, the money was for transition purposes, some of which I identified at the committee.

Sandesh Gulhane (Conservative, Glasgow)

Despite the minister’s answer, the principal and chief executive officer of City of Glasgow College, Paul Little, has said that the loss of the £26 million from the college sector’s budget has further compounded significant financial pressures and forced colleges to make compulsory redundancies.

Having visited the college, I have been impressed with it, but I am deeply troubled by the fact that budget cuts are leading to more than 100 staff losing their jobs. I have been flooded with letters, with one constituent saying:

“I urge you to intervene in this matter and to investigate why funding has not been made available to avoid this redundancy situation ... My colleagues deserve ... better treatment than this.”

Will the minister offer some support and tell us what support the Scottish Government will provide to colleges that are being forced to consider redundancies?

Graeme Dey (Scottish National Party, Angus South)

I marvel at the brass neck of the Tories. Never mind imposing a damaging Brexit on the United Kingdom that will particularly harm the university sector or the impact of Liz Truss and Kwasi Kwarteng trashing the UK economy—[

Interruption

.]

The Deputy Presiding Officer

Minister, I ask you to resume your seat.

We have got through portfolio question time so far with the questions being asked and responded to without heckling. If members resist heckling, we will get through all the supplementary questions, too.

You may resume, minister.

Graeme Dey (Scottish National Party, Angus South)

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer.

I was going to make the point that, just this lunch time, my friend Liz Smith was sitting on the Conservative benches calling on the Government to take a lower-tax approach, which would have meant the money available for our public services being reduced. We cannot have it both ways.

This is a serious matter. We are actively engaged with colleges, and we are working on flexibilities and other measures that would help to alleviate the challenges—there are challenges that they face—and improve the situation for them.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

A number of members have requested to ask a supplementary question. I suspect that I will not get through them all, but I will do my best. Willie Rennie should be brief.

Willie Rennie (Liberal Democrat, North East Fife)

The minister knows that there is incredulity and frustration in the college and university sectors that the first step that he took was to cut £46 million from their funding. That will not help colleges and universities to transition to the new future that the minister wants to see. If new funds become available, can he confirm that that will be his first and top priority for investment?

Graeme Dey (Scottish National Party, Angus South)

As I said at the Education, Children and Young People Committee meeting yesterday, from my perspective—we have already indicated that we will look to address this—if there was an improvement in the funding situation, by working with colleges and universities, that would, of course, be a priority for the education portfolio.

Pam Duncan-Glancy (Labour, Glasgow)

The minister confirmed this week that the funding had been reallocated to account for the pay deal that was reached with school teachers. Does he accept that the reversal of promised funding, combined with more than 10 years of real-terms cuts to the sector, is limiting the ability to offer a fair pay deal to staff? Does he accept that teaching staff in all phases of education should be properly remunerated for their work?

Graeme Dey (Scottish National Party, Angus South)

I do believe that education staff should be properly remunerated for their work.

But here we go again. I have said this to the Conservatives and even more often to the Labour Party: the same money cannot be spent twice. If Labour wants to spend money on something else, that is fine, but it needs to tell us where the money is coming from.

I want to correct one small point. It is a point of fact that, since 2012-13, college resource budgets have increased by £168 million in cash terms.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

Liam Kerr should be very brief.

Liam Kerr (Conservative, North East Scotland)

In North East Scotland College’s latest accounts, the principal of the college warned that,

“if the College is required to reduce costs further then student experiences and outcomes will suffer, significantly.”

Did the minister consider the impact on NESCol of withdrawing the £46 million? What does he predict the impact will be on its ability to deliver?

Graeme Dey (Scottish National Party, Angus South)

We were, of course, aware that there would be an adverse impact from the withdrawal of the funding because of the transition measures that it was going to fund. However, the decision was not taken lightly. In many ways, there was no decision—the money had to be found. I find that regrettable, and I am disappointed that we had to do that, but if Mr Kerr was aware of the conversations starting to happen with all colleges—including North East Scotland College—he would know that we are looking actively at what we can do to give them the sustainable future that they require.

After-school Clubs and Out-of-term Activities (Access)

Evelyn Tweed (Scottish National Party, Stirling)

8. To ask the Scottish Government how it is supporting local authorities to ensure that school children from disadvantaged communities have access to after-school clubs and other activities outside of the school term. (S6O-02251)

Natalie Don (Scottish National Party, Renfrewshire North and West)

Since 2021, we have invested £25 million in summer holiday programmes that have provided activities, food and childcare. Our priority now is to take the next steps in building a system of school-age childcare to provide year-round childcare support for families on low incomes in order to support sustainable employment. To do that, we are targeting our £15 million investment this year at community-based projects that will deliver year-round childcare and activities. We are rightly focusing on delivering lasting change for families and communities that need support the most.

Evelyn Tweed (Scottish National Party, Stirling)

In my Stirling constituency, there are gaps in after-school club provision. Can the minister advise how support from the Scottish Government could assist local authorities in identifying those gaps and how they would go about applying for that support?

Natalie Don (Scottish National Party, Renfrewshire North and West)

The Children (Scotland) Act 1995 requires local authorities to consult parents about their out-of-school care and school-age childcare needs every two years and to plan and publish information on whether and how they will provide appropriate childcare, taking account of those responses.

Local authorities should therefore have access to appropriate information that is relevant to their local communities.

The approach that we are taking, in building a system of school-age childcare, is person centred and place based. It involves engaging with local communities to support the design and delivery of services, initially in our early adopter areas. We will share those findings and identify new early adopter areas this year.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

That concludes portfolio question time. There will be a brief pause to allow front-bench teams to change positions.

Non-domestic Rates

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

The next item of business is a statement by Tom Arthur on delivery of the agreed recommendations of the Barclay review on non-domestic rates. The minister will take questions at the end of the statement, so there should be no interventions or interruptions.

Tom Arthur (Scottish National Party, Renfrewshire South)

I am pleased to provide a statement on the implementation of the independent Barclay review of non-domestic rates.

The Barclay review was commissioned in 2016 with a remit to explore how the rates system could better support business growth and long-term investment and reflect changing marketplaces. I thank Ken Barclay and his colleagues Professor Russel Griggs, David Henderson, Isobel d’Inverno and Nora Senior for their work on the review.

The report, which was published in August 2017, made 30 recommendations. The majority of those were accepted by the Scottish Government and I am pleased to report that all the agreed recommendations have now been implemented. To deliver that, we engaged, consulted and worked closely with local authorities, assessors and businesses. We introduced primary legislation—the Non-Domestic Rates (Scotland) Act 2020—and a range of statutory instruments, as well as making administrative changes.

This afternoon, I would like to highlight a number of the key policy changes that stemmed from the Barclay review. Supporting business growth was core to the remit of the Barclay review and we have implemented recommendations to improve economic performance and to encourage investment.

The business growth accelerator relief is the only relief of its type in the United Kingdom aimed at supporting property growth and property improvements. We introduced the relief in 2018 and, this year alone, the relief is forecast to save ratepayers £15 million.

To better incentivise the reoccupation of empty properties and therefore support our town centres, we expanded fresh start relief to cover all property types. We further extended it this year, making it available to properties with a rateable value of up to £100,000.

For the renewable energy sector more specifically, we commissioned an independent review of small-scale hydro schemes—the Tretton review. Following publication of that report in 2020, we provided more certainty for investors by guaranteeing 60 per cent relief for hydro generators until 2032.

Barclay considered both ends of the property scale, large and small. A reduction in the large business supplement was recommended and, in 2020, we introduced an intermediate property rate. In April, we raised the rateable value threshold at which the higher property rate applies. Over 95 per cent of properties in Scotland are now liable for a lower property rate than would apply anywhere else in the UK, and we remain committed to reducing the higher property rate when that is affordable.

We also commissioned an independent review of the small business bonus scheme—the SBBS—by the Fraser of Allander Institute. Its findings were reported in 2022 and we convened a short-life working group to consider its recommendation to collect new information to enable a more robust assessment of the impact of the SBBS.

We are committed to evidence-based evaluation and policy development to ensure that our support schemes are effective and deliver value for money. However, acknowledging the concerns that were raised by the working group about additional red tape and burdens on business, we are not currently planning to introduce any new reporting requirements for SBBS relief recipients. The SBBS remains the most generous scheme of its kind in the UK. We have introduced changes this year to make it more progressive and it continues to take 100,000 properties out of rates altogether.

This year saw the revaluation of all non-domestic properties following a six-year gap. The Barclay review recommended more frequent revaluations to reduce volatility and shorter tone dates to allow rateable values to more closely reflect market trends. The revaluation marks the introduction of the first three-year revaluation cycle, with valuations based on a one-year tone date. New rateable values for non-domestic properties across the UK came into effect on 1 April, but in Scotland they are based on market conditions as at 1 April 2022, compared with a year earlier, 1 April 2021, in England and Wales. That ensures that values in Scotland more accurately reflect up-to-date rental market data and, specifically for this revaluation, reduces the risks of the Covid-19 pandemic distorting rateable values.

Earlier today, a report on the impact of the 2023 revaluation was published. The report details changes in rateable values as a result of the revaluation, both by property class and by area, as well as resulting changes to gross bills—that is, after the application of general revaluation transitional relief, which we introduced to protect those that were seeing large increases in rateable values due to revaluation.

The Barclay review also recommended a number of measures that are aimed at improving ratepayers’ experience, including improving transparency and increasing efficiency. Assessors are now required to publish a draft valuation roll on 30 November the year before revaluation, as well as to publish lists for prescribed property types of the comparable properties that they used to determine the basic rate for revaluation .

In advance of the next revaluation in 2026, we are committed to exploring whether further improvements can be made to the transparency of valuations. We also introduced a new two-stage appeal system on 1 April, which took place alongside the transfer of valuation appeal committees to the Scottish tribunals. The new appeals system ensures that there is greater transparency and fairness, encouraging earlier information sharing and quicker resolution of cases for ratepayers, which is important for the success of three-yearly revaluations. We are committed to a fair and transparent non-domestic rates system that provides a level playing field.

The Barclay review recommended the creation of a general anti-avoidance rule, and the Non-Domestic Rates (Scotland) Act 2020 introduced regulation-making powers to empower councils to tackle rates avoidance tactics. The first anti-avoidance regulations under those powers came into force last month, delivering commitments in the Bute house agreement and the 2021 programme for government.

A number of other changes have also been made to level the playing field for all ratepayers: owners of self-catering properties that are liable for non-domestic rates became required, from 1 April 2021, to provide evidence of those properties being actually let for 70 days per year, in addition to being available for let 140 days in the year.

We removed the financial incentive for councils to award charity or sports relief to arm’s-length external organisations and the eligibility for charitable rates relief from mainstream independent schools. We published statutory guidance on discretionary sports relief to ensure that it supports affordable community-based facilities.

We restricted the small business bonus scheme to occupied properties, focusing the relief on economically active premises, and previously exempt property in parks became rateable from 1 April.

We want to encourage empty properties back into economic use and the Barclay review recommended a number of reforms to empty property relief. However, those were superseded when we devolved the relief to councils on 1 April this year. The reform was accompanied by a revenue transfer to councils of £105 million a year for three years, which is significantly more than the estimated cost of maintaining the national relief, in light of the decision to freeze the poundage this year. That delivers greater fiscal empowerment, as local authorities may use that money as they see fit, according to the needs of businesses and communities in their areas, which includes using it for discretionary local empty property relief. We will undertake an initial review of the devolution of empty property relief in advance of the next revaluation.

I have outlined key reforms and changes and significant progress that we have made following the Barclay review to deliver a system that better supports business growth and long-term investment, increases fairness and transparency and improves ratepayers’ experience. The UK Government’s fundamental review of business rates, which concluded in 2021, made recommendations that Scotland had already or has since implemented.

It is important to recognise that non-domestic rates are an important source of revenue to fund the local services on which we all rely. We continue to offer a strong non-domestic rates package; we have responded to calls from businesses to freeze the poundage and offered reliefs that are worth almost £750 million this year alone.

It will take time for the Barclay reforms to bed in and longer still for them to be evaluated. In line with the framework for tax, we want to provide certainty, convenience and efficiency to ratepayers. However, we also want the door to remain open to discussions about further improvements to the rates system.

In his statement on 18 April, the First Minister acknowledged the need for a new approach to the Government’s relationship with business. On Monday this week, we announced the creation of a new deal for business group. One of the group’s aims will be to establish a consultative sub-group to advise on further enhancements to the operation and administration of the non-domestic rates system, following the final implementation of the independent Barclay review. I will chair that sub-group and I look forward to it being set up and to hearing the business community’s views.

As part of the new deal for local government, I will ensure that local government’s views are fully taken into account when any further enhancements to the NDR system are considered. I have also written to invite the spokespeople from the other parties to raise their NDR concerns with me. I look forward to the constructive engagement that will take place between me and Opposition party spokespeople and I look forward to the questions that will be asked this afternoon.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

The minister will now take questions on the issues raised in his statement. I intend to allow 20 minutes for that, after which we will move on to the next item of business. I encourage members who wish to ask a question to press their request-to-speak button if they have not done so.

Elizabeth Smith (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

I thank the minister for the prior sight of his statement. I will ask three questions. The minister is well aware that the Scottish Retail Consortium has persistently demanded the restoration of parity with England on the higher property rate. Such parity was promised in the Scottish National Party’s manifesto in 2021, so why has it still not been secured? That adds to what the Scottish Retail Consortium has described as “damaging perceptions” about Scotland’s lack of competitiveness.

Secondly, when the review was published in 2017, Kenneth Barclay rightly made it clear that all 30 of his recommendations were aimed at improving Scotland’s economic climate. Does the minister accept that retail, hospitality and leisure industries have been put at significant disadvantage because, despite having the Barnett consequentials to do so, the Scottish Government would not commit in the recent budget to the 75 per cent rates relief in 2023-24 that is available in England?

Thirdly, does the minister believe that, as the highest-taxed part of the UK, Scotland is in line with the competitive ambition that Ken Barclay expressed?

Tom Arthur (Scottish National Party, Renfrewshire South)

On the higher property rate, my statement touched on the fact that we are operating in demanding fiscal circumstances, but we are committed to meeting the commitment on that rate when that is affordable and finances allow.

Because of the small business bonus scheme, which is the most generous of its type, about 50 per cent of retail, hospitality and leisure premises pay no rates. As we move towards the budget process for next year, ministerial colleagues will be more than happy to discuss Opposition party priorities, but I note that allocating additional revenue to non-domestic rates relief would require revenue to be taken from other budget lines.

With regard to the overall net tax position in Scotland, it is important to look at that in aggregate because, in Scotland, we deliver a social contract that is unparalleled in other parts of the UK, and that is made possible only because of our progressive approach to taxation. Of course, all decisions around tax will be set out at the budget, in line with established processes.

Daniel Johnson (Labour, Edinburgh Southern)

I thank the minister for prior sight of his statement. I remind members of my entry in the register of members’ interests: I am director of a company with retail interests and, indeed, it is probably important to add that my constituency office benefits from the small business bonus scheme.

I look forward to engaging with wider reform of non-domestic rates. The analysis that the minister alluded to leads with the point that the median rateable value increased by £450. With the median rateable value being below the small business bonus threshold, what is the actual aggregate rise in bills? Is it the 12.5 per cent that is mentioned on page 13 of that report? How does that compare to economic growth over the period?

One of Barclay’s recommendations was about having national standards on assessment methodology, and the review also called for a statutory body, if needed. I ask the minister for his reflections on whether such a statutory body is needed at this time. Although he might not want to acquiesce to the calls for a 75 per cent discount, many small businesses complain about being at a competitive disadvantage compared to England, so has the Scottish Government assessed what impact that differential has had on Scottish businesses?

Tom Arthur (Scottish National Party, Renfrewshire South)

The total gross bill has increased by £127 million, which is 3.7 per cent after adjustments for the general revaluation transitional relief.

With regard to a statutory body, we have sought to increase standardisation through our reforms of the appeal process. As part of the discussions that we have through the sub-group of the new deal for business group and, indeed, engagement with Opposition party spokespeople, I am happy to explore what further standardisation and simplification could be undertaken.

With regard to the competitive position vis-à-vis the rest of the UK, we take a range of factors into consideration during our budget-setting process. As I touched on earlier, we provide the most generous social contract anywhere in the UK, which is made possible by our progressive approach to taxation. Where Opposition members feel that there should be a change to taxation policy, whether that be on income tax or on non-domestic rates, we are open to those discussions, but it is incumbent on Opposition spokespeople to identify not just the additional spend that they wish to see but where the corresponding reduction would take place elsewhere in the budget. I look forward to those discussions.

John Mason (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Shettleston)

In his statement, the minister mentioned the new deal with business. Can he tell us more about how that is progressing and, particularly, whether it might lead to further enhancements to the NDR system?

Tom Arthur (Scottish National Party, Renfrewshire South)

My colleague Neil Gray, the Cabinet Secretary for Wellbeing Economy, Fair Work and Energy, co-chaired the first meeting of the new deal for business group yesterday afternoon. It will be agreeing the parameters and priorities for the new deal and how the agreed sub-groups will be established. As I mentioned in my statement, the consultative sub-group will be established to advise on further enhancements to the operation and administration of the non-domestic rates system, following the final implementation of the Barclay review. More details, including the membership of the sub-group, will be confirmed in due course. I very much look forward to engaging with the sub-group and Opposition spokespeople. In addition, my door is open to any member of the Parliament who wishes to engage on any matters that pertain to my portfolio, including non-domestic rates.

Murdo Fraser (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

The minister mentioned the Tretton review of rating for small-scale hydro schemes, which we all want to support as part of our transition to net zero. Many of those schemes have seen punitive increases in their rateable value, potentially putting their viability at risk. The temporary relief that the minister mentioned is very welcome, but it does not provide the necessary long-term certainty that investors in those schemes want to see, as Scottish Land & Estates points out in its briefing to MSPs. Are we going to get a permanent solution to that significant issue, so that small-scale hydro ramps up to the levels that we all want to see?

Tom Arthur (Scottish National Party, Renfrewshire South)

Mr Fraser raises a very important set of questions. Of course, we will keep all of our non-domestic rates policies under review, in line with not just policy aspirations but affordability and other Government priorities.

We all recognise that there is a big role for the Scottish Government in realising the potential of hydro, and there is also a big role for the UK Government in realising that potential. We are committed to working collaboratively and constructively, using the powers that we have at our disposal, to ensure that hydro can flourish and play the important role that it can and must play in reaching net zero by 2045.

Kaukab Stewart (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Kelvin)

Small businesses are the beating heart of Glasgow’s economy and culture. My constituency is home to the Subversion gallery, which is located in the west end. As a small business, it is eligible for the small business bonus scheme, the benefits of which I know have been a lifesaver to many businesses across the country. Will the minister confirm how many Glasgow small businesses are eligible for the scheme and how much that has invested back into Glasgow’s economy?

Tom Arthur (Scottish National Party, Renfrewshire South)

Our statistics show that, as at 1 July 2022, 11,410 business premises in Glasgow received the small business bonus scheme relief, with more than 90 per cent of those premises receiving a 100 per cent reduction. That has saved ratepayers in Glasgow an estimated £33 million in 2022-23 alone, and more than £160 million cumulatively over the past five years, between 2018-19 and 2022-23.

Mark Griffin (Labour, Central Scotland)

The changes introduced under Barclay on self-catering properties were already well out of date when they were announced. Wales introduced the 140-day rule back in 2010. A year later, the Government has announced more consultation on taxation affecting housing. In the spirit of suggesting areas of additional funding, will the Government consider including in that consultation abolishing the short-term lets rates relief, which could save councils £21 million?

Tom Arthur (Scottish National Party, Renfrewshire South)

I thank Mr Griffin for raising our on-going live consultation on potential reforms to council tax regarding second homes and empty properties and to NDR. As he will appreciate, those areas are interrelated, which is why, as well as asking specific questions on the proposition around council tax as it applies to empty properties and second homes, we also asked the question on NDR. I encourage all members to engage with that consultation and to promote it among their stakeholders and networks. Of course, we will report back to Parliament on the conclusion of the consultation.

Audrey Nicoll (Scottish National Party, Aberdeen South and North Kincardine)

The review has offered local authorities an opportunity to incentivise the occupation of vacant properties by allowing them to consider applying an NDR charge in respect of empty properties. Does the minister agree that that provides an opportunity to breathe new life back into vacant town and city centre properties, which have regrettably become a more common feature of many streetscapes in Scotland?

Tom Arthur (Scottish National Party, Renfrewshire South)

The member raises a very important point. We are taking a number of actions across Government to support our town centres, which are being led by my colleague Joe FitzPatrick, who is the minister with responsibility for planning and regeneration.

With regard to the role that NDR can play, we have devolved empty property relief to councils as of 1 April this year. As I referred to in my statement, we are providing councils with £105 million in extra revenue funding annually over the next three years, which is far more than the expected cost of continuing empty property relief as a national relief, due to the freezing of the poundage.

We are taking a number of measures through the planning system, the tax system and the wider empowerment of local government to support the regeneration of our town centres.

Willie Rennie (Liberal Democrat, North East Fife)

I will press the minister a little bit further on Liz Smith’s question about the large business supplement. When I looked back at the 2021 manifesto, it did not mention anything about affordability in that commitment. Of course, it is sensible to have affordability as a characteristic of the policy, but I am sure that that was considered when the manifesto was drafted. Therefore, why has the commitment been watered down, and will it be delivered by 2026, as was promised in the manifesto, especially considering the state of the high street just now?

Tom Arthur (Scottish National Party, Renfrewshire South)

I recognise the point that Willie Rennie is making, but I will just add that the challenges that our high street faces are multifaceted. Tax is part of the situation, but the member will appreciate that there is a broader range of factors that have impacts. We have made progress with regard to the number of properties that are eligible for the higher relief. We increased the threshold for the intermediate property rate from £95,000 to £100,000, so that less than 5 per cent of properties are qualifying for the higher rate.

I note that we are two years into a five-year parliamentary session. We have faced the highest inflation in my lifetime—in the lifetime of many of us in the chamber—as well as significant economic pressures. However, we have made a commitment and, as I have said, the decisions will be taken as part of the annual budget process.

I note again that we still have a number of years to run of this parliamentary session. There was a manifesto commitment that was to be delivered over the entire session; we have to take such decisions in the light of affordability at the time. We will, of course, keep members up to date through the annual budget process, as we always do.

Ben Macpherson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Northern and Leith)

To elaborate on the relevant comments in his statement, does the minister agree that it was right that, in 2020, Parliament decided to delay revaluation of non-domestic rates from 2022 to 2023 with a tone date of 1 April 2022 instead of 1 April 2020?

Tom Arthur (Scottish National Party, Renfrewshire South)

I absolutely agree with that. The Barclay review highlighted the dangers of economic volatility occurring between the revaluation date and the tone date, which I know Ben Macpherson will be well aware of. The challenges around the tone date were the key determinant in the decision to delay revaluation.

If revaluation had not been delayed, the tone date would have fallen on 1 April 2020—just three weeks after Covid-19 was declared a global pandemic and during a period when many businesses had stopped trading. The tone date would not have delivered rateable values that reflect post-Covid economic conditions, because the rental markets would not have adjusted. Similarly, a tone date of 1 April 2021 would have been unsuitable because the volatility in the commercial property market continued.

We remain committed to three-yearly revaluation with a one-year tone date, with the next revaluation being scheduled to take effect on 1 April 2026.

Ross Greer (Green, West Scotland)

Following Daniel Johnson’s example, I note that my constituency office, too, benefits from the SBBS.

Analysis by the Scottish Parliament information centre in 2020 found that shooting estates benefit to the tune of £10 billion a year from non-domestic rates relief through their eligibility for the small business bonus scheme. I am glad that, in response to the Barclay review, a review of the SBBS took place and some reforms were made. However, does the minister agree that shooting estates simply should not be eligible for such a tax break?

Tom Arthur (Scottish National Party, Renfrewshire South)

Shooting rights and deer forests were added to the valuation roll with effect from 1 April 2017, following the Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2016. In 2021-22, shooting rights and deer forests raised £1.7 million in non-domestic rates income and were in receipt of £4.9 million in reliefs including the small business bonus scheme and empty property relief. I acknowledge Ross Greer’s views on these matters, and am keen to discuss them with him as part of my on-going engagement on NDR with members of all political parties.

Douglas Lumsden (Conservative, North East Scotland)

From the impact report, we can see that 70 per cent of properties in Aberdeen have had their rateable value reduced. I welcome the cut because I have been campaigning for it for the past seven years. Will the minister now accept that the valuations for Aberdeen were badly wrong and that the Government should have acted sooner to prevent the impact of SNP austerity in the north-east?

Tom Arthur (Scottish National Party, Renfrewshire South)

I am sure that Mr Lumsden is aware—I certainly hope that he is—that valuation is conducted independently by Scottish assessors. Valuation is informed by the rental value that is estimated at the tone date, and it is determined by macroeconomic conditions. It is for assessors to determine valuations. It is for local authorities to administer non-domestic rates and the Government and the Parliament set the overall legislative framework within which that takes place, as well as property rates.

Beyond that, I am happy to engage directly with Mr Lumsden on any specific matters around non-domestic rate reform that he thinks merit further consideration. However, the issue of valuation that he has raised is a matter for the independent Scottish assessors.

Michelle Thomson (Scottish National Party, Falkirk East)

I welcome the fact that the Scottish Government acted decisively at an early stage to implement Barclay review recommendations that did not require primary legislation. I note that the minister has already mentioned measures including expansion of the fresh start relief to help town centres, and changing the business growth accelerator relief. Will he provide more information on whether an evaluation has been done of the impact of the early introduction of those recommendations and their benefit to businesses in Scotland?

Tom Arthur (Scottish National Party, Renfrewshire South)

I am happy to inform Michelle Thomson that since the expansion of the fresh start relief it has saved ratepayers an estimated £17 million, between 2018-19 and 2022-23. Since the business growth accelerator relief was introduced it has saved ratepayers an estimated £96 million over the same time period.

Our statistics show that, as of 1 July 2022, 320 business premises were in receipt of the fresh start relief, and 450 business premises were in receipt of the

business growth accelerator relief. That demonstrates the positive impact that those policies are having.

Liam Kerr (Conservative, North East Scotland)

The minister seems to know an awful lot about Glasgow, but some people will worry that he is less familiar with the situation outside the central belt. Aberdeen’s Union Street has many empty properties. What impact assessments and scenario planning did the minister do on the effect of the reforms on Union Street? What do those reports suggest the outcomes will be?

Tom Arthur (Scottish National Party, Renfrewshire South)

I heartily assure Liam Kerr that I am very familiar with Union Street, because I worked in Aberdeen for many years as part of my pre-political career in music. I recognise that Union Street, like many of our high streets across Scotland, has faced a range of challenges—the pandemic, Brexit, the specific challenges that the north-east has faced around oil and gas and the more general challenges that the retail sector has faced due to the changing nature of how people purchase products.

As I highlighted in my statement, the review was an independent review that was chaired by Ken Barclay. Following the review, there was an implementation group and a process of consultation and engagement. That process took place to look at how we set non-domestic rates policy for the whole of Scotland.

Under the Community Empowerment (Scotland) Act 2015, local authorities have a discretionary power whereby they can provide targeted reliefs for their areas. That is an important power and an important piece of fiscal autonomy for local government. We are committed to expanding that, as is demonstrated by the devolution of empty property relief.

Sustainable Food Supply

Annabelle Ewing (Scottish National Party, Cowdenbeath)

The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-09014, in the name of Mairi Gougeon, on securing a sustainable food supply for Scotland.

Mairi Gougeon (Scottish National Party, Angus North and Mearns)

Making sure that our nation has a safe and steady food supply is one of the Government’s key responsibilities. It is as important now as it was when the emperor Hadrian was worrying about losing access to north African grain-producing regions. Of course, Russia’s illegal war against Ukraine has brought into sharp focus how vulnerable global food supply chains still are to unexpected shocks. In addition, key supply chains are still recovering from the impact of the global pandemic.

However, that is a shorter-term issue. Of much greater long-term concern is the completely avoidable disruption that was foisted on Scotland through Brexit.

It was the Tories’ choice to pursue a hard Brexit that removed us from the European Union, the single market and the customs union. As well as causing trade disruption, it has created significant workforce recruitment and retention issues for Scotland’s food and drink sector. Of course, now Labour, too, is committed to Brexit and apparently thinks that it can make the unworkable work, despite all the evidence that shows that Brexit is making our economy poorer.

Brexit has weakened our food and drink sector in so many ways.

Rachael Hamilton (Conservative, Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire)

One of the benefits of leaving the European Union is that it has given us the opportunity to take up the technology of gene editing, the current European legislation on which is, according to the European Commission’s “Inception Impact Assessment”,

“no longer fit for purpose”.

Does the cabinet secretary agree with those words?

Mairi Gougeon (Scottish National Party, Angus North and Mearns)

I am surprised that the member can find even one benefit of Brexit. We will come on to discuss some of those issues later in the debate.

Many exports to the EU have fallen. For example, there has been a 38 per cent fall in fruit and vegetable exports.

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

I am rather surprised that the Conservatives’ extremely lengthy amendment to the Government’s motion, which is in fact longer than the Government’s motion, contains absolutely no mention of Brexit. Does that perhaps lead us to believe that the Conservatives are now embarrassed by the impact of Brexit on the Scottish farming economy?

Mairi Gougeon (Scottish National Party, Angus North and Mearns)

That is exactly the point.

As I was saying, our exports have fallen, with a 38 per cent fall in fruit and vegetable exports, and a 7 per cent fall in dairy and egg exports between 2019 and 2022. Thanks to the Tories’ hard Brexit, products including seed potatoes and chilled meats can no longer be exported to the EU at all, entirely cutting high-quality Scottish produce out of that important market and having a knock-on impact on food security in those countries. Most of all, Brexit has harmed our trading relationship with the EU, our most important trade partner and one of the world’s biggest agrifood producers.

Those shocks and challenges mean that we must focus more on national food security and build resilience into Scotland’s food system as we seek to become a good food nation. We must anticipate and adapt to shocks and challenges as much as we can, and develop policies to try to mitigate them and reduce their likelihood.

That was the aim of the short-life food security and supply task force that I set up last year, in partnership with industry, immediately following the invasion of Ukraine. The task force enabled us to monitor, identify and respond to disruption to our food supply, and its report included a series of short, medium and longer-term recommendations to mitigate impacts, resolve supply issues and strengthen food security in Scotland.

Those recommendations have been substantively met. Most significantly, we now have a food security unit up and running in the Scottish Government. The unit is taking forward the legacy activity of the task force and will develop evidence-based monitoring for supply chain risks, including gathering and co-ordinating the best intelligence about risks and emerging issues.

The supply chain is complex, with every part, from producers to packagers and purchasers, reliant on others. Monitoring and horizon-scanning will provide Government and industry with better insight into global supply chain performance and will help to improve responsiveness to potential short and longer-term crises and challenges.

There is a further long-term challenge for us all to adapt to and address: climate change. In recent years, increasingly severe weather events have impacted the established rhythm of farming practice. Climate change is already affecting our food security and that will only become more acute if we do not transform our land use. If we want to create a more sustainable food supply for Scotland, we must produce more of our own food and do so more sustainably.

Scotland’s food and farming sectors have a critical role to play, producing food for consumption in Scotland and for trade, with exports of food and drink worth £8 billion a year. Scotland’s seafood producers, farmers and crofters produce fantastic food. Our manufacturers, processors and distributors ensure that high-quality, sought-after products are prepared, packaged and distributed to a wide range of markets and audiences. We also should not forget the amazing fortitude and resilience that our food chain showed throughout Covid-19.

The Scottish Government is committed to supporting our nation’s producers, which is why we will maintain direct support payments for food production.

Finlay Carson (Conservative, Galloway and West Dumfries)

The cabinet secretary commented on the challenge of climate change. Will she tell us how many of the recommendations that came from farmer-led groups during 2020 have actually been implemented?

Mairi Gougeon (Scottish National Party, Angus North and Mearns)

That is exactly why we set up the

agricultural reform implementation oversight board, which will help us to look at and implement those recommendations. The recommendations from the farmer-led groups are the absolute foundation of our future policy.

Our vision for agriculture has food at its heart, making clear our support for the farmers and crofters who provide the country with healthy and nutritious food while ensuring Scotland meets its world-leading climate and nature restoration targets. Co-development with the sector, through forums such as the agricultural reform implementation oversight board that I just mentioned, will enable the achievement of our shared objectives.

Protecting our natural environment and restoring biodiversity are essential to sustainable and regenerative agriculture. As Parliament agreed on 15 March, the agriculture reform route map shows that there is no contradiction between producing high-quality food and doing so in a way that delivers for climate and nature restoration.

Scotland’s marine environment and our seafood sector play important roles in domestic food security and our economic security. Exports of Scottish fish and seafood were valued at £788 million in 2021 and Scottish salmon is the United Kingdom’s biggest food export. Our marine environment contributes significantly to our good food nation, with local seafood forming part of the healthy sustainable diet that is the ambition of the local food strategy.

Our “Blue Economy Vision for Scotland” recognises the key role that Scotland’s seas and coasts should play in contributing to the nation’s future prosperity, especially in remote, coastal, rural and island communities.

However, as Seafood Scotland highlighted last year, Brexit continues to damage the sector’s competitiveness, with a knock-on impact on the economy of our coastal and island communities.

In addition, however much the Opposition tries, we cannot escape the fact that Scotland remains vulnerable to the impacts of policies, omissions and poor decision making by Westminster, whoever is in power there. Energy is one such reserved issue, and we have called for energy price setting in the gas and electricity markets, as well as the powers and resources that are needed to tackle rising costs on the scale that is required—powers and resources in the areas of access to borrowing, welfare, VAT on fuel and energy bills, taxation of windfall profits and regulation of the energy market.

We remain concerned that the UK Government’s energy bills discount scheme for businesses represents a significant reduction in funding for organisations that are already struggling with their energy costs.