Scottish Parliament, 2 March 2023

321 contributions from 79 members. The official report.

General Question Time

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Good morning. The first item of business is general question time. I would appreciate short and concise questions and responses because, as ever, there is much interest.

Cladding Remediation

Kaukab Stewart (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Kelvin)

1. To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on its progress on cladding remediation. (S6O-01956)

Shona Robison (Scottish National Party, Dundee City East)

The safety of residents and home owners is our absolute priority. The 27 buildings that were in the initial pilot programme have all started the single building assessment process, which is a comprehensive and technical assessment of fire risk and required actions. We have now expanded that pilot to 105 buildings, and a regional breakdown of that list has been published.

I have always been clear that, if immediate action is needed to safeguard residents, the Government will not hesitate to take action. On the basis of advice from fire safety engineers, we have established a waking watch at two buildings, as a precautionary measure to safeguard residents.

Kaukab Stewart (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Kelvin)

What discussions have taken place with developers, whose responsibility it is to ensure that their buildings are compliant with fire safety regulations? Can the cabinet secretary offer any reassurances to people who live in the properties that are affected, including those in my Glasgow Kelvin constituency, who are, understandably, concerned and frustrated?

Shona Robison (Scottish National Party, Dundee City East)

On a general point, we have continued to work with Homes for Scotland and some of the country’s largest housing developers to develop an accord to address cladding issues.

At Lancefield Quay in Glasgow in particular, a number of positive discussions have taken place between the Scottish Government and the developers, and I am pleased to confirm that the developers have agreed to meet the costs of the waking watch that is currently in place at Lancefield Quay.

I appreciate that the residents want to quickly move to a situation in which there is no longer a need for a waking watch. Technical experts are working at pace to design a longer-term solution, which the developers will then deliver.

Miles Briggs (Conservative, Lothian)

I have been contacted by constituents who are currently unable to secure a remortgage because they live in such properties. Those individuals are complaining of radio silence from the Government on the issue, and a lack of urgency and leadership. What advice is being provided to individual householders who are trying to remortgage and who live in those 105 properties?

Shona Robison (Scottish National Party, Dundee City East)

Communication is important. If Miles Briggs will give me more information in writing about the circumstances, I will make sure that there is more regular communication, because regular communication is important.

Miles Briggs talked specifically about lending. We are pleased to hear that, for the first time since the crisis started, banks are willing to lend on properties that have dangerous cladding. As I am sure Miles Briggs is aware, mortgage lending is a reserved matter, and we expect that the position will therefore be extended to all nations of the United Kingdom. We are working with UK Finance to formalise a process that works for lenders as well as home owners in Scotland. I am happy to keep him informed of that.

However, I do not recognise Miles Briggs’s characterisation regarding urgency and leadership, which we are providing in very difficult circumstances. We want to provide assurance to home owners that we are working at pace with developers to get to a situation in which the buildings that need remediation have that done at speed.

Pam Duncan-Glancy (Labour, Glasgow)

The residents in a number of the buildings in Glasgow are seriously worried about the situation, and they have not yet seen the reports that have been made available to the Government. Will the cabinet secretary set out when those reports will be available, so that the residents can have some safety in understanding what the problem is?

Shona Robison (Scottish National Party, Dundee City East)

I appreciate the point that Pam Duncan-Glancy makes about this being a worrying time for residents. The Scottish Government wrote to all residents notifying them of the decision on 31 January and the factor disseminated that letter to them on the morning of 1 February. On 6 February, Scottish Government officials, together with the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service and the firm that is providing the waking watch, held a briefing session for the residents committee. We have been working with Homes for Scotland and the developers to address some of the wider issues with the development of an accord.

I hope that that provides Pam Duncan-Glancy with a sense of some of the communication that we have had with residents. However, if we can do more, we will.

Homelessness

Pam Gosal (Conservative, West Scotland)

2. To ask the Scottish Government what action it is taking to tackle homelessness, in light of reports that the number of people classified as homeless has reached a record high. (S6O-01957)

Shona Robison (Scottish National Party, Dundee City East)

Our ending homelessness together action plan is the right long-term strategy for preventing and tackling homelessness and is strongly supported by Scotland’s homelessness sector. Aligned with the plan, I have commissioned an expert group to bring forward innovative ways to reduce the number of households in temporary accommodation and I am meeting housing conveners to inform our approach. In the meantime, we continue to lead the way on delivering affordable homes in the United Kingdom, having delivered 115,558 affordable homes since 2007 and started work towards our target of delivering 110,000 affordable homes by 2032.

Pam Gosal (Conservative, West Scotland)

Thirty-six people have needlessly died while in temporary accommodation in six hotels across Glasgow. Campaigners argue that hotels are not equipped to support people who are in a crisis, so vulnerable individuals are missing out on access to potentially life-saving drug and alcohol treatment and mental health services. However, as expected, the Scottish National Party Government has no shame. Will the cabinet secretary commit to establishing a public inquiry and declare a housing emergency immediately, as Conservative members have repeatedly called for?

Shona Robison (Scottish National Party, Dundee City East)

First, we will continue with our massive investment of £3.5 billion in affordable homes, which is not replicated anywhere in these islands, because we recognise that affordable housing is a key lever in tackling poverty.

Pam Gosal referred to a difficult situation with vulnerable residents in hotels in Glasgow. I am sure that she understands the complexity of some of the issues that are facing the people concerned. Any death in those circumstances is a tragedy. She will also be aware, I hope, of all the work that is going on to try to ensure that people are supported. Issues such as addiction and mental health problems require to be addressed, along with trying to get people into settled accommodation.

Our housing first programme is working to support people with wraparound support.

We will continue to work with Glasgow City Council and any other local authority to ensure that we can support people in the way that they require.

Scottish Child Payment (Glasgow Anniesland)

Bill Kidd (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Anniesland)

3. To ask the Scottish Government how many payments of the Scottish child payment have been made in the Glasgow Anniesland constituency since it was introduced. (S6O-01958)

Shona Robison (Scottish National Party, Dundee City East)

Social Security Scotland routinely publishes official statistics for the Scottish child payment, including application and payment data. Although those statistics include information by local authority area, they do not currently include information by Scottish Parliament constituency. The latest statistics, which were published earlier this week, show that a total of 331,180 payments were made to clients living in the Glasgow City local authority area between February 2021 and the end of December 2022.

The Scottish child payment is putting money into the pockets of low-income families at a crucial time and more families than ever are eligible for support.

Bill Kidd (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Anniesland)

The Joseph Rowntree Foundation has said:

“The full rollout of the Scottish Child Payment is a watershed moment for tackling poverty in Scotland, and the rest of the UK should take notice.”

Will the cabinet secretary provide further detail about the impact that the SCP is projected to have on poverty levels in Scotland and what more could be achieved if the United Kingdom Government stepped up and matched that ambition?

Shona Robison (Scottish National Party, Dundee City East)

In March 2022, we published analysis that suggests that the Scottish child payment could reduce relative child poverty by an estimated 5 percentage points in 2023-24, lifting 50,000 children out of relative poverty in Scotland.

Of course, the United Kingdom Government could use its powers to tackle child poverty and the cost of living crisis by—just to name a few measures—introducing a £25-a-week uplift for universal credit and means-tested legacy benefits and by ending the benefit cap and the two-child limit. Reversing key UK Government welfare reforms that have occurred since 2015 could bring an estimated 70,000 people in Scotland out of poverty, including 30,000 children. That is something that I think that we would all want the UK Government to do.

Clyde Metro Project (Milngavie Rail Services)

Ross Greer (Green, West Scotland)

4. To ask the Scottish Government how the Clyde metro project will improve rail services on the existing Milngavie line. (S6O-01959)

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

Although it is currently too early in the process to advise exactly how the Clyde metro will impact rail services on the Milngavie line, I can say that the metro will complement and integrate with the region’s existing rail and bus networks.

The system might include wholly new track, the reuse of former rail routes or the conversion of existing lines. That will lead to more reliable public transport, increase travel choices to key employment, education and healthcare destinations and help to address inequalities. It will be truly transformational for Glasgow and its surrounding communities.

Ross Greer (Green, West Scotland)

I share the minister’s enthusiasm for the transformational Clyde metro project. Despite recent improvements, the Milngavie line continues to be one of the worst-performing lines in Scotland, with regular delays, cancellations and issues with capacity, all tied to the limitations of it being a single-track line.

Does the minister agree that the only way to resolve those issues and achieve the Clyde metro’s ambition for frequent services on the Milngavie line is to re-dual the line and build the long-mooted Allander station?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

For trains terminating at Milngavie, ScotRail has advised that performance is comparable to that of the suburban west service group and, indeed, ScotRail as a whole. However, if there are issues with specific services, such as those that the member has alluded to, I am more than happy to raise those with ScotRail. I know that it was in Parliament only yesterday for a drop-in session with MSPs.

With respect to the metro, obviously, it will be for the design development process to look at what impact, if any, it will have on rail. I am sure that it will have an extensive impact in relation to the delivery of services locally, but I also note that work that the local council, East Dunbartonshire Council, did with regard to its local transport strategy in 2019 concluded that having a

standalone station at Allander, in combination with double tracking, which the member mentioned, offered poor value for money. Instead, the council preferred a bus-based option to improve access to existing rail services.

The Presiding Officer

Briefly, minister.

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

However, if the council has changed its view in the interim, I am happy to ask my officials in Transport Scotland to re-engage with it on this matter.

Medical Centre for Lochgelly

Annabelle Ewing (Scottish National Party, Cowdenbeath)

5. To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on the new medical centre for Lochgelly. (S6O-01960)

Maree Todd (Scottish National Party, Caithness, Sutherland and Ross)

The Scottish Government’s capital investment group considered the outline business case for the Lochgelly health centre project at its meeting in June 2022.

In response to the feedback provided, the NHS Fife project team is currently updating the business case. We do not have a date for when the updated business case will be resubmitted to the Scottish Government for approval.

Annabelle Ewing (Scottish National Party, Cowdenbeath)

The minister will know, from her preparations for this question session, that, on 28 October 2021, the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care gave me “an absolute confirmation” that, when the business case for the new Lochgelly medical centre was in place, the funding would be found.

Can the minister also confirm that, and give that assurance to my constituents? Can she also advise my constituents in Lochgelly when they can expect finally to get their new medical centre?

Maree Todd (Scottish National Party, Caithness, Sutherland and Ross)

Absolutely—I am happy to provide that assurance. I recognise that the current health centre and much of the national health service estate needs replacement. That is why the Scottish Government is committed to investing £10 billion in health infrastructure over the next 10 years. That will include funding for a replacement health centre in Lochgelly, because we remain absolutely committed to that project.

Our planning assumption is that the phasing of the funding is likely to be in the second half of the decade, and NHS Fife will align the update of the business case to that expected timeline.

Aberdeen to Central Belt Enhancement Project

Douglas Lumsden (Conservative, North East Scotland)

6. To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on the £200 million Aberdeen to central belt enhancement project, which aims to reduce travel times between Aberdeen and the central belt by 20 minutes by 2026. (S6O-01961)

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

The ministerial commitment to spend £200 million on enhancing the Aberdeen to central belt rail corridor was made alongside, but not as part of, the Aberdeen city region deal, for delivery within the same 10-year timescale.

Some concerns were expressed at a relatively late stage by the Network Rail operations team last year. Those concerns, which have since been resolved, have led to a delay in Network Rail formally signing off the option selection process. Nonetheless, good progress is now being made, and the project remains on track.

Douglas Lumsden (Conservative, North East Scotland)

The Scottish National Party has been in power for 16 years, and the people of the north-east are still having to put up with a second-class rail service. The new trains for the north-east are 40-year-old diesel 125 cast-offs. There is no chance of electrification to Aberdeen, of dualling at Usan, or of reducing journey times to the central belt by 20 minutes by 2026. The local chamber of commerce has said that that is vital to economic growth in the area. Does the minister agree that rail services to Aberdeen and the north-east are being neglected by the SNP Government?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

No, I do not agree with Mr Lumsden’s characterisation of investment from the Government in relation to the north-east. I remind him that the Scottish Government is investing £379 million in the Aberdeen city region deal, compared with just £125 million from the United Kingdom Government.

Aberdeen and the north-east have, of course, benefited from significant rail enhancements in recent years. That includes £330 million of investment to support the redoubling of the line to Inverurie, which allows a half-hourly service to Aberdeen and an hourly crossrail service to Montrose; the opening of the new Kintore station between Inverurie station and Dyce station in October 2020, which features the largest electric vehicle charging facility in the north-east and which was backed by £15 million of investment from the Government; and Aberdeen station’s refurbishment, which is being supported by over £8 million of Scottish Government support.

In relation to the rail enhancement programmes—

The Presiding Officer

Briefly, minister.

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

It is worth reflecting that Network Rail raised some concerns last year, as I have mentioned. That set progress back. Nonetheless, good progress is now being made, and I am sure that Mr Lumsden will welcome that progress.

Gillian Martin (Scottish National Party, Aberdeenshire East)

I was going to say, “Let’s examine the facts about the investment that the Scottish Government has made.” However, Jenny Gilruth has just listed everything that I was going to say. There is the Kintore station work, the dualling of the Aberdeen to Inverness line in time, and the completion of the Aberdeen western peripheral route. Meanwhile, the Tory United Kingdom Government pulled the plug on £1 billion of carbon capture investment for Peterhead in 2015, and it is contributing only £125 million to the city region deal as opposed to the Scottish Government’s contribution of £370 million—

The Presiding Officer

Ms Martin, do you have a question?

Gillian Martin (Scottish National Party, Aberdeenshire East)

My question is: will the minister take the opportunity to further describe how the UK Tory Government should be stepping up for the people of the north-east rather than letting them down?

The Presiding Officer

The minister must, of course, answer the question in relation to matters for which the Scottish Government has general responsibility. I ask her to do so briefly.

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

Ms Martin has distinctly outlined the record investment coming from the Scottish Government to rail services in the north-east of Scotland and to her constituency. Additionally, since ScotRail came into public ownership, we have made significant investment of over £11 billion in rail infrastructure, including in the refurbishment of Glasgow Queen Street station and Edinburgh Haymarket station, and invested £1 billion in the past 10 years to electrify over 400km of track.

Mobility as a Service

Graham Simpson (Conservative, Central Scotland)

7. To ask the Scottish Government how it plans to roll out mobility as a service across Scotland. (S6O-01962)

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

Mobility as a service provides people with better travel information, ticket booking and payment services so that they can decide how to undertake their journey.

Back in 2018, the Scottish Government made a programme for government commitment to establish a £2 million fund to support innovative, digital data-driven solutions to test mobility as a service in Scotland. Five projects, covering the Highlands and Islands, Tayside and the south-east of Scotland, were awarded funding, and they will complete later this year.

Graham Simpson (Conservative, Central Scotland)

I welcome the pilot projects, but we do not want to see those suddenly stopping. Can the minister assure us that funding will continue? Will we see the results of those pilots published?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

I very much recognise the value of the Scottish Government’s investment in mobility as a service. Indeed, last month, I was in Inverness seeing for myself how that investment is being used to support the development of the Go-Hi app. Last Thursday, I was in Dundee visiting Dundee and Angus College to see the approach that it has used in the local area to join up transport providers for college students and national service health workers, and even for use in Loch Lomond national park.

Having invested that £2 million from the Scottish Government, Transport Scotland is now required to evaluate the outputs from the investment in the projects to assess the viability of the concept across Scotland. That evaluation will look at a number of different factors. The projects are, of course, yet to complete, and I do not want to arrive at a view before they have completed. However, I recognise Mr Simpson’s interest in the subject. That is a really important piece of work in relation to joining up transport across Scotland, and I hope that we will be able to learn lessons from those investments from the Scottish Government.

Rent Controls

Katy (Labour, West Scotland)

8. To ask the Scottish Government what progress it is making towards fulfilling its commitment to introduce a national system of rent controls by the end of 2025. (S6O-01963)

Patrick Harvie (Green, Glasgow)

Long-term rent control measures will be included in the forthcoming housing bill, which is expected to be introduced as soon as possible after the 2023 summer recess. That will enable the Scottish Government to meet our commitment to deliver rent control by 2025.

Katy (Labour, West Scotland)

I appreciate that there is litigation in relation to the rent cap and the eviction ban but, as the minister knows, the cost of living crisis continues. Therefore, can he reassure tenants that the Government remains committed to providing protection against unfair rent increases and to introducing the national system of rent controls?

Patrick Harvie (Green, Glasgow)

Yes, I can. The member is correct that we cannot comment on current legal proceedings. However, the Scottish Government has led on housing over the long term, whether that is through the abolition of the right-to-buy investment in social housing or, most recently, the emergency rent freeze in the face of the cost of living crisis, as well as our long-term commitment to a national system of rent controls. I know that many Labour colleagues share great enthusiasm for seeing us continue with that work.

Deposit Return Scheme

Douglas Ross (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

1. By midnight on Tuesday, businesses in Scotland were legally required to sign up to the Scottish National Party-Green deposit return scheme. Thousands of producers rightly decided not to, because the scheme is an absolute shambles. Lorna Slater, the minister in charge, said that just 664 businesses had registered, but she refused six times in the chamber yesterday to say how many businesses should have signed up.

Will the First Minister give us that answer now—how many businesses should have signed up to her Government’s deposit return scheme?

Nicola Sturgeon (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Southside)

First, when a big change is introduced, it is understandable that there will be concerns about it. I have deep respect for the concerns that have been raised by business, and the Government will continue to work with business to address those concerns, but, frankly, the sheer opp

ortunism of some Opposition parties that have rightly supported a deposit—[

Interruption

.]

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Let us hear the First Minister. Thank you.

The First Minister

They have rightly supported a deposit return scheme and have previously criticised the Government for taking too long to introduce one, so their opportunism in now indulging in knee-jerk opposition is frankly breathtaking.

So, too—I will use a parliamentary term that I believe is polite enough—is the blatant distortion of some Opposition politicians. Yes, I am talking about Alister Jack in particular.

To come back to the point—this is an important point—the number of companies in the drinks industry inevitably changes over time. At the outset of introducing the scheme, it was estimated that there were about 4,500 companies—[

Interruption

.]

The Presiding Officer

Members, let us hear the First Minister. Thank you.

The First Minister

However, significantly fewer than that will have to register because, once groups of companies registering under one registration are identified, the estimated number of individual producers and importers will be less than 2,000. However, that is not actually the most relevant statistic. The most relevant statistic is the share of the market—the percentage of products that are included—and more than 90 per cent are now included in the scheme. [

Interruption

.]

Finally, if I were to state that in the opposite way—if I were to stand here and say that 90 per cent of producers were registered but that that covered only about 20 per cent of the market—that would be a problem, because that would be a seriously problematic way of approaching this.

We will continue to progress with the scheme—

The Presiding Officer

Briefly, please.

The First Minister

—because it is for the benefit of our environment, and we will do that responsibly, because that is what people across Scotland have a right to expect.

Douglas Ross (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

First Minister, when you are in a hole, stop digging. Surely, either you or some of your many, many officials watched Lorna Slater—

The Presiding Officer

Please speak through the chair.

Douglas Ross (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

—being absolutely unable to answer a basic, but very important, question yesterday. We need to know how many businesses and producers the First Minister’s Government expected to sign up to the scheme, given that we know that only 664 did so by the deadline. It is a very simple number. Either the First Minister knows it but is refusing to tell members in the chamber, or she does not know, and I think that members deserve an answer.

The First Minister says that she has “deep respect” for businesses across Scotland. Well, businesses are giving the Government a message, loud and clear: the Scottish Government’s deposit return scheme is a complete disaster. The Scottish Wholesale Association said that it could be a “car crash”; UKHospitality Scotland says that the scheme is “flawed”; Innis & Gunn says that it is “unworkable”; and, last night, after listening to the minister’s statement, the Scottish Chambers of Commerce stated that businesses’ concerns have been “completely ignored”— a “car crash”, “flawed” and “unworkable”, with the voice of businesses across Scotland “ignored”.

Even at this late stage, will the First Minister finally, just once, listen to Scottish businesses and pause the scheme?

The First Minister

The last time that the Government announced a delay to the scheme, necessitated by the pandemic, Conservatives were among the first to criticise it. That is what I mean when I talk about sheer opportunism and knee-jerk opposition. However, that is what we have come to expect from the Conservatives. We will continue to act responsibly.

I come back to the central point in Douglas Ross’s question, because it is important. I gave him an answer in my first response, and I also pointed out that anyone who looks at this rationally will see that it is the number of bottles or the percentage of products that are covered that matters the most. The vast majority of products are produced by a relatively small number of producers. As of yesterday, more than 90 per cent of the market share was covered—[

Interruption

.]

The Presiding Officer

Thank you.

The First Minister

That is the crucial point. If it were the reverse, that would be a problem.

We will continue to do as we have been doing. A range of concerns have already been responded to in order to reduce costs. Producer fees are 8 per cent, 30 per cent or 40 per cent lower than originally planned for glass, plastic or metal containers. Day 1 payments for producers have been reduced, and we will continue to liaise with business responsibly and sensibly.

Let us not lose sight of the central point, which is the scheme’s purpose and objectives. It will reduce littering by a third, increase recycling rates of single-use drinks containers towards 90 per cent and reduce carbon dioxide emissions by 4 million tonnes over 25 years, which is the equivalent of taking 83,000 cars off the road. This is about the environment. It used to be the case that the Conservatives pretended to care about the environment—

The Presiding Officer

Briefly, please.

The First Minister

—but it seems that those days are long gone.

Douglas Ross (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

It is very clear that the First Minister is ignoring Scottish businesses again. She says that the opposition to the scheme and the calls to pause it are sheer political opportunism, so I would hate to be the health secretary sat next to her—there is going to be some more finger wagging coming in a minute. We know that Humza Yousaf, Ash Regan and Kate Forbes have all said that the deposit return scheme should be delayed—that is political opportunism at the heart of the Scottish Government.

[

Interruption

.]

Fuck’s sake.

The Presiding Officer

I suspend business.

12:08 Meeting suspended.

12:09 On resuming—

We will recommence. I call Douglas Ross for his third question.

Douglas Ross (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. I have to say that these constant interruptions to First Minister’s question time are getting very tiresome. We are here, as democratically elected MSPs, to put questions to the First Minister. The people who are watching and who want to hear the questions and answers are getting pretty fed up with this childish behaviour, which means that questions get disrupted like that.

I was kind of on a roll, explaining the total political opportunism of the SNP. We spoke about Humza Yousaf. We spoke about Ash Regan. Let us now speak about Kate Forbes.

Kate Forbes said that the deposit return scheme, which the First Minister has just defended over the past two questions, could create “economic carnage”—and that is, in fact, one of the more tame things that Kate Forbes has said about the SNP’s record. There is just one wee problem: Kate Forbes is the SNP’s Cabinet Secretary for Finance and the Economy. The SNP’s record is Kate Forbes’s record.

When the SNP Government was slow in paying out Covid grants to businesses, Kate Forbes was running the schemes; when companies demanded that the SNP reset its anti-business agenda, Kate Forbes was the minister who was not listening; and when the ferry scandal ran even further aground, Kate Forbes was fully on board.

The new Kate Forbes seems to be saying that the old Kate Forbes is not up to the job. So, I ask the First Minister: which one does she agree with—the Kate Forbes with a terrible record in government or the Kate Forbes who says that this Government has a terrible record?

The First Minister

First, Douglas Ross said that he was “on a roll”. I am not sure whether he meant rolling down the hill, but that seems to be what that question was. [

Interruption

.]

The Presiding Officer

Excuse me, First Minister. We will hear the First Minister.

The First Minister

I said last week that Douglas Ross was seeming awful scared of Humza Yousaf. This week, it seems that he is also very scared of Kate Forbes, which says to me that whoever is standing here in my place in a few weeks’ time will keep the Conservatives firmly where they belong: in opposition in Scottish politics.

To go back to the deposit return scheme, this Government—and I, for as long as I am First Minister—will continue to work to introduce sensible schemes that protect the interests of business but that also protect our environment, because we have a deep responsibility to do that.

I also point out, again, that the introduction of a deposit return scheme is in no way unprecedented. Similar schemes are already operational in many countries and territories around the world. Indeed, I understand that some of the companies that are raising concerns—as they have a right to do here in Scotland—are part of the schemes in other countries around the world. I read in the newspaper today that the Conservative United Kingdom Government is about to announce its own scheme, perhaps as soon as tomorrow, which no doubt will have Douglas Ross squirming, as he often does when his colleagues in London make life difficult for him.

We will continue to be responsible. We will liaise and engage with business, but we will also take steps to protect our environment and make sure that the cost of dealing with waste—which, of course, has to be met—is dealt with fairly. That is what this is all about.

Douglas Ross (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

May I begin this question with an apology, Presiding Officer? It has been brought to my attention that I perhaps used industrial language in response to the protesters who interrupted the session earlier.

To you, to members and to everyone listening—including, probably, my mother—I apologise for that. [

Interruption

.] Christine Grahame is asking what I said, but I promise that I will not repeat it. I just wanted to apologise to you, Presiding Officer, and to members.

Let us get back to where we were. I was asking the First Minister about the leadership election and the SNP candidates, which the First Minister does not seem to want to talk about. That is no wonder, because the contest is an absolute bin fire. The SNP is so split and divided that it even tried to ban the media from watching the hustings. The only thing that unites the candidates who are seeking to replace Nicola Sturgeon is independence, and the candidates’ plans are even more reckless than Nicola Sturgeon’s de facto referendum.

Last night, Kate Forbes revealed that she wants to hold a referendum just three months after the next general election—three months—when there are so many bigger issues facing the country. Kate Forbes thinks that a deposit return scheme would cause “economic carnage” but that holding another referendum to break up a 300-year-old union would be a breeze. Does the First Minister really think that anybody in Scotland will find Kate Forbes’s plans credible?

The First Minister

What we found out in that question from Douglas Ross is that his so-called “roll” came to a crashing halt pretty quickly.

I will share some news with Douglas Ross, the chamber and, indeed, the country, although I am not sure that it will come as any surprise to the country. The SNP is united in favouring Scottish independence, and I think that we are going to see the country increasingly united behind independence as the best way to free ourselves from the impact of Tory Governments—or, indeed, from the impact of Labour Governments, which are often indistinguishable from Tory Governments—and be in charge of our own affairs and destiny, for example, by getting back into the European Union. I very much look forward to the vigour of that debate in the years to come. I am also confident that whoever stands here in my place in just a few weeks’ time will continue the SNP’s outstanding record of success. [

Interruption

.]

The Presiding Officer

Thank you, members.

The First Minister

Whoever stands here in my place

will make sure that the SNP continues to occupy these benches and take forward decisions for the good of the people of Scotland, even when those are tough decisions. Douglas Ross and his colleagues will stay where they are, or—who knows?—perhaps, in years to come, they will be over there.

Scottish National Party Leadership Election

Anas Sarwar (Labour, Glasgow)

2. We are in the midst of a cost of living crisis that is hitting people hard; a national health service crisis that is pushing staff to breaking point and putting patients’ lives at risk; and a wider economic crisis that is leading to business closures across Scotland. That crisis has been made worse by a flawed and chaotic deposit return scheme, which is led by an incompetent Government. At the same time, the SNP has turned in on itself, because its members are more interested in scoring political points against each other than in focusing on the people’s priorities. At this time of crisis for business, families and patients, why is it that people in Scotland see only a Government that is divided and in chaos?

Nicola Sturgeon (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Southside)

Maybe somebody here can help me, but I have lost count of the number of leadership elections that have taken place in the Conservative and Labour parties in the years that I have stood here as First Minister.

I think that people in Scotland will welcome seeing a robust debate about the future of our country, covering all of the things that Anas Sarwar has just talked about. They will appreciate seeing candidates for leadership setting out proposals to build on the actions that this Government has taken in recent years.

Anas Sarwar talks about the cost of living crisis. One of the things that I am proudest of—and always will be proud of—in my time as First Minister is the game-changing Scottish child payment, which is transformational for families and children across the country and is doing more than anything across these islands to lift children out of poverty. I am proud of that, and I am confident that whoever succeeds me as First Minister will continue with that record of success.

Anas Sarwar (Labour, Glasgow)

It will be interesting to hear whether Nicola Sturgeon is proud of the candidates, over the past couple of weeks, trashing her record in Government. The choice that the SNP is offering to the people of Scotland to replace Nicola Sturgeon is woeful. We have a health secretary who is closing an intensive care unit in Ayr, after promising to save it just a few weeks ago; a finance secretary who repeatedly blocked £15 an hour for care workers, but is now miraculously calling for it; and Ash Regan, who thinks that Scotland could set up a central bank within weeks. Three candidates are falling over each other to distance themselves from their Government’s policies. They are all U-turning on the flawed deposit return scheme; they all want to hit the brakes on a national care service; and all of them are all over the place on independence.

Nicola Sturgeon gave all of those candidates their first steps up in politics. With the benefit of hindsight, which candidate does the First Minister most regret appointing?

The First Minister

I am proud of all of the Governments that I have led and I am proud of those who have served in them.

With regard to the record of Government, I said on the day that I announced that I would be stepping down as First Minister that nobody would entice me into expressing a preference for my successor, and Anas Sarwar will not manage to do that, either. However, I am confident that whoever succeeds me will continue with that record of success. Ultimately, my record—and that of my ministerial team—in Government will be judged not by Anas Sarwar or Douglas Ross but by the people of Scotland. [

Interruption

.]

The Presiding Officer

Let us hear the First Minister.

The First Minister

In my time as First Minister, that record has been judged by the people of Scotland on no fewer than eight occasions, and we have had eight landslide election victories. That is the vote of confidence in my record as First Minister that I will continue to be proud of.

Anas Sarwar (Labour, Glasgow)

At the start of this contest, Nicola Sturgeon told us that it would be a chance for Scotland to see the best talent that the SNP has to offer. Here we are with the top three: Ash Regan, backed by Alex Salmond; Kate Forbes, backed by Jacob Rees-Mogg; and the Scottish Greens’ candidate, Humza Yousaf, backed by Peter Murrell.

It might be funny, but this is really serious. We have 770,000 on an NHS waiting list, we have families struggling to put food on the table and pay their bills, and businesses are shutting down because of this Government’s incompetence and anti-business agenda. At this time of national crisis, when people need a competent Government that is on their side, is this really the best that the SNP has to offer?

The First Minister

It is quite hard for me to imagine this but, if I was in the shoes of Anas Sarwar or Douglas Ross, what I would be more worried about than whatever is happening in the SNP leadership election campaign is why the only political game in town remains the SNP, and why I was lagging so far behind after 16 years of an SNP Government. That says that the people of Scotland continue to put their trust in us.

Why do they do that?

Employment in Scotland is at its highest level, I think, on record, and unemployment is at its lowest level. In a very challenging time for our national health service, we are seeing an increase in the number of patients who are being treated and the longest waits are falling. We are seeing—

Christine Grahame (Scottish National Party, Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale)

No strikes.

The First Minister

I hear Christine Grahame saying that there have been no strikes in our national health service, which makes us the only nation in the United Kingdom to have achieved that.

We continue to be the best-performing part of the UK outside of London when it comes to attracting inward investment into our country. We are lifting more children out of poverty than any other part of the UK is. That is why the Scottish people continue to trust the SNP in government. That is true today, and I believe that, no matter who succeeds me as First Minister, it will continue to be true for a long time to come, as we continue and complete the journey to Scotland becoming an independent country.

Cabinet (Meetings)

Alex Cole-Hamilton (Liberal Democrat, Edinburgh Western)

3. To ask the First Minister when the Cabinet will next meet. (S6F-01855)

Nicola Sturgeon (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Southside)

Tuesday.

Alex Cole-Hamilton (Liberal Democrat, Edinburgh Western)

I am very grateful for that reply.

St Andrews Wine Company champions small and local producers. Its mission is to offer interesting and lesser-known brands to its customers. Its owner, Peter, estimates that, because so few producers have signed up to the deposit return scheme, three quarters of his stock will become unavailable. All that the company will have left is what can be bought in a supermarket. It is a family-run business that is being thrown under the bus, and there are thousands more businesses like it. Jobs are on the line, and the scheme is starting to cause real harm.

Fergus Ewing, a loyalist of 50 years, has called the DRS “wilfully reckless”. The First Minister’s finance secretary, Kate Forbes, has called it “economic carnage”. Government incompetence is undermining the very case for the DRS, which could massively reduce our waste and emissions, but only if it works.

This is a moment of real jeopardy. It cannot wait for the next First Minister, because irreversible business decisions are being made right now. Nicola Sturgeon calls it “opportunism”; I call it scrutiny, backed up by an avalanche of industry concerns. If the First Minister can halt the chaos of the national care service, why can she not pause this?

The First Minister

We are not halting progress on the national care service; we are taking time to receive the report from the lead committee in the Parliament and consider it. If we did anything else, Alex Cole-Hamilton and others would rightly be the first to criticise us for that.

As First Minister, I will continue to take all of my responsibilities very seriously for as long as I am in this job. One of those responsibilities is to ensure that my Government continues to engage with businesses on their concerns about the deposit return scheme or anything else, to address those concerns and to allay fears that businesses such as the one that was cited by Alex Cole-Hamilton have put forward. We will do that sensibly, responsibly and in a way that ensures that we can introduce a scheme that is necessary for and beneficial to our environment, just as many other countries have already done, and as the United Kingdom Government is about to do.

I think that that is what people expect from their Government on tough issues as well as on less tough issues. That is the approach that I have always taken to being First Minister, and I will continue to do so.

Food Shortages

Karen Adam (Scottish National Party, Banffshire and Buchan Coast)

4. To ask First Minister whether she will provide an update on the Scottish Government’s response to on-going food shortages currently affecting Scotland. (S6F-01851)

Nicola Sturgeon (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Southside)

We engage regularly with all the main retailers. We are aware that some are currently experiencing temporary disruption to certain off-season fresh vegetables. Some retailers have introduced a buying limit as a short-term preventative measure to avoid bulk buying and ensure that customers can get what they need.

Retailers have provided assurances that there is currently enough stock available for customers if everyone continues to shop responsibly and that the situation is expected to improve week on week. Of course we are monitoring this closely.

Given the pressure on food and drinks supply chains that have been caused by Covid, Brexit and war in Ukraine, the Cabinet Secretary for Rural Affairs and Islands wrote to the United Kingdom Government last year to raise the cumulative impact of labour and skills shortages and rising costs. No response was received to that, so the cabinet secretary has written again, as recent events have clearly highlighted the vulnerability and importance of supply chains.

Karen Adam (Scottish National Party, Banffshire and Buchan Coast)

Former chief executive of Sainsbury’s Justin King has said:

“I hate to say it ... but it’s a sector that has been hurt horribly by Brexit”.

Liz Webster, chair of Save British Farming, said:

“The reason we have food shortages in Britain—and they don’t have food shortages in Spain or anywhere else in the EU—is because of Brexit”.

The views from industry are clear. The shortage of basic nutritional necessities is attributable to a deliberate act of Tory policy. Does the First Minister share my utter dismay that the Tories refuse to acknowledge and apologise for the fundamental harms they have visited on people?

The First Minister

Karen Adam is absolutely right, and the voices that she has quoted underline that. The food and drinks sector in Scotland, and indeed across the whole of the UK, has borne the brunt not just of Brexit but of the very hard Brexit that has been pursued by the UK Government, particularly through the loss of free trade and free movement.

Although it is the case that poor harvest conditions in Spain and Morocco are a key factor in some shortages, the situation is not helped by the UK Government’s approach to Brexit, because of which our food and drinks sector has lost many of the benefits that it had when trading with the European Union. The loss of free trade has, for example, increased the additional paperwork that is required to import to the UK, and thus increased the cost of trade. I think that anybody who denies that is, frankly, not living in the real world.

Brexit was a mistake, and the way in which it has been pursued by the UK Government has compounded that error. It is, of course, one of the many reasons why the sooner Scotland is independent and able to rejoin the European Union, the better it will be for everyone.

Schools (Bullying and Harassment)

Pam Gosal (Conservative, West Scotland)

5. To ask the First Minister whether she will provide an update on what discussions she has had with the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills in relation to bullying and harassment in schools. (S6F-01869)

Nicola Sturgeon (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Southside)

I am very clear—and I am sure that this view is shared by everyone across the chamber—that bullying and harassment anywhere, but particularly in schools, is completely unacceptable. The

Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills

and I are committed to further work to help address that.

Just last week, Education Scotland published a thematic inspection report that we commissioned on the recording and monitoring of bullying in schools. We have since announced and commenced a review of the national anti-bullying guidance. Respectme, Scotland’s anti-bullying service, is part of that work, and we have invited teachers, parents and young people’s representatives to be involved in it as well.

Later this month, we will seek the advice of the teacher panel and the advisory group on relationships and behaviour in schools, to further inform our approach.

Pam Gosal (Conservative, West Scotland)

A pupil in my region has been subjected to repeated instances of bullying and violence, sometimes even involving weapons. The parents have complained to the school, the police, the council and even the ombudsman. They are running out of options.

On further investigation, the parents were appalled to find out that incidents of bullying had not been recorded. The response to a freedom of information request shows that underrecording of bullying is commonplace in our schools. This neglectful Scottish National Party Government is throwing pupils to the wolves. Does the First Minister acknowledge that underreporting of bullying incidents in schools is an issue, and will she act on the desperate pleas from parents and pupils by implementing an enforcement mechanism to ensure that schools are accurately reporting incidents?

The First Minister

First, it is important that instances of bullying are recorded properly and comprehensively, and that bullying is monitored. That is why, as I said in my initial answer, we commissioned a report on the recording and monitoring of bullying in schools. Education Scotland published the report that was the result of that thematic inspection just last week. It is an important point, but one on which, as I have said, action is being taken.

Secondly, it is important to say that, although, obviously, I cannot comment on individual cases, the experience that was recounted by the member is unacceptable. It will also be the case that that will be repeated many times over in schools across the country. Bullying is unacceptable wherever it occurs, but we are talking here about schools and, given that it is young people who are in schools, it is particularly unacceptable there. We should have zero tolerance to it. I think that all of us would accept that it is not a new issue in our schools. However, the modern world, particularly the role of social media in the modern world, means that bullying often takes different forms, and very pernicious forms, today compared with some years ago.

The Scottish Government will continue to work closely with local government, recognising the lead responsibility of government, but we all have a responsibility. The

Daily Record

campaign, which I applaud, is very clear about that and the fact there is a role for social media companies. Frankly, there is a role for all of us, as adults in our own communities, to make sure that children and young people are safeguarded and respected.

This is a serious issue and one that I want to assure people in the chamber and the country that the Scottish Government takes extremely seriously.

Rhoda Grant (Labour, Highlands and Islands)

Schools do not take responsibility for what happens to young people on their journeys to and from school, so what steps will the First Minister take to make sure that children are protected at that time, and what steps are the police taking to track down the videos of incidents—they are videoed from before the start of the attack, so they are obviously pre-planned—and hold everyone who is responsible to account?

The First Minister

Rhoda Grant is right and she gets to the heart of what is a societal problem, which therefore has to be addressed on a societal basis. Obviously, we are focusing a lot, rightly, on what happens in schools. It is important that we do that and that local government and individual schools focus on that, but of course schools cannot be responsible—certainly not solely responsible—for what happens outside schools.

The police, of course, have a key role to play and I know that they take that role very seriously. As I said in my previous answer, all of us, as adults in communities, have a responsibility and a role to play to make sure that children are properly cared for and safeguarded. It is, in some ways, a complex problem, but we should not allow that to take us away from the collective responsibility that we have to tackle it. Government—national and local—has to be in the lead in that, but we all have a part to play and I am sure that all of us take that seriously.

Willie Rennie (Liberal Democrat, North East Fife)

The First Minister knows that I have deep concerns about the increase in violence in schools. It has always been there, but it has certainly increased since the pandemic. There is a lot of distressed behaviour in schools. However, teachers report that they are sick and fed up with having to pick up the pieces of that. They do not think that there are sufficient resources to be able to manage it, so, as part of the reviews that the First Minister has set out, will additional resources be available to help schools to cope with the crisis?

The First Minister

I pay tribute to Willie Rennie for the work that he has done on the issue. It has been very good and very important. I will give him a commitment that resources will be part of the consideration. The

Daily Record

has drawn attention to the need for funding to make sure that there are places for young people to go, but I know that Willie Rennie is particularly talking about resources in schools.

Teachers are often at the front line of the situation, particularly when bullying is happening in schools, and we must take account of that. However, that should not take away from the fact that this is not just about what happens in our schools; it is a wider issue about how young people are coping with the pressures of modern life, particularly over the past few years. Mental health support—another issue that Willie Rennie has raised often in the chamber—is an important part of that. However, making sure that those who work most closely with young people, which obviously includes teachers, have the right support and resources to do that job is an important part of it, and I will have further discussions with the education secretary, over my remaining few weeks in this post, about exactly that issue.

Hospital Discharge (Capacity in Care Homes)

Foysol Choudhury (Labour, Lothian)

6. To ask the First Minister what action the Scottish Government is taking, in light of reports that individuals are unable to be discharged from hospital due to a lack of available spaces in care homes. (S6F-01864)

Nicola Sturgeon (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Southside)

We have provided an additional £8 million to health and social care partnerships to secure provision of 300 extra interim care home beds so that places can be purchased above the national care home contract rate. That has resulted so far in 331 people being able to be discharged from hospitals to those placements, with a total of 581 people currently benefiting from an interim care placement.

As part of the work of our ministerial advisory group on health and social care pressures, we are supporting local systems to gain a better understanding of care homes data, and supporting partnerships to understand local availability and the suitability of care home places for people in their care.

Our plans for a national care service, to which I alluded earlier, represent the biggest public sector reform in Scotland since the Parliament was established. They will help to ensure consistency and fairness at a national level, with services being designed and delivered locally.

Foysol Choudhury (Labour, Lothian)

Last week, the Scottish Government issued refreshed guidance on hospital discharge to care homes. The “Guidance on Choosing a Care Home on Discharge from Hospital” policy states:

“Where the preferred choice(s) of care home is not immediately available the person will be required to make a temporary ... move to another home with a suitable vacancy to wait.”

My constituent John Findlay has progressive multiple sclerosis. He has been in hospital for seven months, and is desperate to get out and into a suitable care home. John is 58 years old, and many care homes will not admit people of that age, so the pool of places that he can go to is significantly reduced. The new guidance could see him forced into accepting a place either in a home that is very far away from his community and support network, or in a home with a very poor track record of care. Will the First Minister tell us how that is putting patients at the centre, and why people like John are denied their rights because of the Scottish Government’s failure to deal with social care?

The First Minister

Foysol Choudhury raises an important issue. I am happy to respond in more detail if he wants to send me the details of that individual case, but what I am about to say has general applicability.

First, no one should be denied their rights or forced into a place that is inappropriate for their needs. What the guidance seeks to do is, first, recognise that hospital is not the best place for any patient who is a delayed discharge, so being in another setting is better for them. Although partnerships obviously want to meet preferences, they also need to consider what the best place, relative to a hospital, for somebody would be. Individual preferences are important. However, the case that has been raised with me is about not just preference but need, given the condition involved.

That takes me on to another point. I referred to the work that is under way to gain a better understanding of care homes data. This is not just about the total number of places that are available but about the type of care that individual care homes are offering. These issues are complex but important and, as we continue to reform health and social care and better integrate it to ensure that people get the care that they need in the best place, we need to continue to grapple with those issues to get the right outcome.

That is a general response, but I am happy to amplify some of that in relation to the individual case of John—I think that that is the member’s constituent’s name—in order, I hope, to give some reassurance about the matters that have been raised with me.

The Presiding Officer

We move to constituency questions and general supplementaries.

Benefits (Standard of Living)

Emma Roddick (Scottish National Party, Highlands and Islands)

The Joseph Rowntree Foundation and the food bank network the Trussell Trust have stated that inadequate benefits are the main reason for a sharp increase in destitution and food bank use in recent months. Research has reportedly revealed that basic benefits that are given to low-income households are at least £140 a month below the real cost of food, energy and everyday items.

Does the First Minister share my view that history will record with shame how the Tories’ inaction and indifference has caused people in one of the richest countries in the world to face that dire standard of living?

Nicola Sturgeon (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Southside)

I agree very much with Emma Roddick. I think that the Conservatives should be deeply ashamed of the impact of their welfare policies. We have known for a long time that the current United Kingdom Government benefits system is not fit for purpose. People across the country are paying the price for that every day in ways that Emma Roddick has pointed out.

Over many years, we have called for improvements. For example, there should be an immediate uplift to universal credit and other means-tested benefits, and we should see the scrapping of the unjust and cruel two-child limit and benefit cap. The latter two policies alone were singled out in a recent report by the Commissioner for Human Rights at the Council of Europe. The report said that the policies

“continue to exacerbate child poverty.”

For our part, we will continue to seek to do the right things through our social security system and, in particular, the Scottish child payment, which is lifting children out of poverty at the same time as the policies of the UK Government push them deeper into poverty. If we were able to join up all those approaches and have all social security powers under the ambit of this Parliament, we could do so much more for the people who need our help most.

Sex Offenders

Russell Findlay (Conservative, West Scotland)

A year ago, I asked about dozens of registered sex offenders being allowed to change their names. It turns out that it is not dozens but hundreds of sex offenders who are hiding their identities. People have no idea whether the person next door is a dangerous predator. Does Nicola Sturgeon agree that that is wrong, and will she outline what her Government intends to do about it?

Nicola Sturgeon (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Southside)

I am happy to write to Russell Findlay or ask the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Veterans to write to him again to provide details of the arrangements that are in place. We have well-established arrangements—not least the multi-agency public protection arrangements, or MAPPA, system—to ensure that the public have protections from registered sex offenders.

There are requirements on people who change their name to give notification that they have done so, so it is not about people being able to hide.

I will, of course, happily remind Russell Findlay of the arrangements in a letter that I will arrange to have written to him.

Legal Age of Marriage

Claire Baker (Labour, Mid Scotland and Fife)

This week, the legal age of marriage in England and Wales has increased to 18. The rise aims to prevent vulnerable children and young people from being forced into marriage. Scotland retains the legal age of marriage of 16. What evaluation has the Scottish Government made of the appropriateness of that age, in the light of concerns about forced marriage and coercion? Does the First Minister agree with the comments this week of Dr Marsha Scott of Scottish Women’s Aid that marriage under 18 is a mechanism for abuse in the worst-case scenarios?

Nicola Sturgeon (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Southside)

I have not seen Dr Marsha Scott’s comments on that, but I have huge respect for her, and I always pay close attention to anything that she says. We are, of course, aware of the change of law in England and will continue to consider the implications for Scotland and the case for change. The relevant minister will keep the Parliament updated as those considerations progress.

Energy Price Cap

Paul McLennan (Scottish National Party, East Lothian)

Households across Scotland continue to face an incredibly challenging time at the moment. They will be rightly baffled as to why their energy bills are set to go up, despite energy prices falling. Does the First Minister agree that the Tory United Kingdom Government must now pass on the reduction in wholesale gas prices to consumers, bring down Westminster’s cap on bills to £2,000 a year and devolve energy regulation powers to this Parliament? [

Interruption

.]

Nicola Sturgeon (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Southside)

I am bemused that Conservative members seem to think that it is not appropriate for the Parliament to consider issues such as the energy costs that the people of Scotland are having to pay right now. That is exactly the kind of issue that we should be discussing, and Paul McLennan is right to raise it.

The new price cap strengthens the case for the UK Government to reverse its plan to increase the guarantee for an average household from April. We estimate that such an increase would result in there being around 980,000 fuel-poor households in Scotland, which is a significant increase compared with estimates for this winter with the price cap set at £2,500. We have called on the UK Government to provide additional support, and we will continue to do so, because people need that support and they need it now.

School Health and Wellbeing Surveys

Meghan Gallacher (Conservative, Central Scotland)

Yesterday, the results of the controversial school sex survey were released. The total participation rate for children and young people was 58.3 per cent in the local authorities that took part. Of those who were eligible to answer the questions relating to sexual activity, only a tiny fraction of school pupils answered. The data proves what I and other members said all along: our children and young people do not feel comfortable answering such invasive questions. Will the First Minister finally agree that those inappropriate questions should be removed from all future health and wellbeing surveys in our schools?

Nicola Sturgeon (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Southside)

I think that those surveys are really important. We have just had exchanges in the chamber about the need to record and monitor instances of bullying. Because the—in my view, manufactured—controversy around the survey led to some local authorities pulling out of it, we did not get as much information on bullying from the survey as we might have wanted to.

We all need to be responsible and make sure that we gather information about the real-life experiences of young people that allows local authorities, schools and national Government to take decisions about protecting their welfare and wellbeing. It is really important that we do that, and that we do it in a way—frankly—that avoids any temptation to get dragged into another Conservative culture war.

The member talks about “controversial” questions. Questions of that nature—which relate to smoking, alcohol, substance use and, yes, sexual health—have been included in health and wellbeing surveys for years. It is only recently that they have become politicised.

Questions about sexual health are asked in the equivalent surveys in England, where—in case the member has not noticed it—the Scottish National Party is not in government; another party is.

Historical Forced Adoption

Monica Lennon (Labour, Central Scotland)

People affected by historical forced adoption have been campaigning for recognition, support and a formal apology for a very long time, and they have support from MSPs in every party in the Parliament. Is the First Minister—having heard their calls—considering making a formal apology and, if so, when?

Nicola Sturgeon (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Southside)

I thank Monica Lennon for raising the issue, which I have commented on before in the chamber. I have expressed my huge sympathy with the calls for a formal apology. I have also—rightly—talked about the legal complexities that Government has to work through. We are actively considering a conclusion of that work right now. Although it is, of course, for the business bureau to timetable such matters, I am very hopeful that I will be able to give an indication of the outcome of that work while I am still First Minister.

Shore Recycling Centre (Fire)

Mark Ruskell (Green, Mid Scotland and Fife)

I am sure that the First Minister will join me in offering the Parliament’s sincere condolences to the family and friends of all those impacted by the tragic fire at the Shore Recycling centre in Perth early on Tuesday morning. That devastating incident is deeply concerning, not least because it is the second fire in six months at the site.

In the days to come, our emergency services will attempt to establish the facts of the situation. Does the First Minister agree that, following Tuesday’s incident, there must be an investigation into the circumstances of the fire to ensure that such a tragedy does not happen again?

Nicola Sturgeon (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Southside)

I extend my deepest sympathies to the family of the individual who, sadly, passed away following the fire at the Shore Recycling plant in Perth.

Early on 28 February, the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service was alerted to reports of a large fire within the plant. It mobilised six fire appliances and specialist resources to tackle the fire, which involved approximately 200 tonnes of scrap material. It worked alongside partners to maintain safety on and off the site. The last appliance left at 9 pm last night, and the fire service will return for a routine check today.

I put on record my gratitude to our fire service and all who worked at the scene of the fire. The fire service confirmed that previous incidents resulted in on-site fire safety measures being reviewed. It initiated a joint investigation with the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service and Police Scotland. It would be inappropriate for me to comment further until that investigation has been concluded, but it is important that investigations take place.

Public Libraries (Closures)

Stephen Kerr (Conservative, Central Scotland)

Today is world book day. The First Minister is well known as a self-identified avid reader so, as she leaves office, how does she feel about being responsible for closing more public libraries than any of her predecessors?

Nicola Sturgeon (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Southside)

I am proud of the support that the Scottish Government gives to libraries. Many libraries in my constituency and across the country had to close during the pandemic, but I have watched them reopen and become vital parts of local communities.

I will continue to support libraries, and I will continue to support everything associated with the wonderful world of books. Perhaps I even look forward to having a bit more time to read books in future.

Point of Order

Maurice Golden (Conservative, North East Scotland)

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I seek your guidance. Yesterday, Lorna Slater said that there were 2 billion containers in the deposit return scheme, representing 95 per cent of volume. Circularity Scotland, the scheme administrator, says that there are 3 billion containers. If the 2 billion figure is correct, is Biffa being paid to collect 1 billion containers that do not exist? If the 3 billion figure is correct, the volume registered would not be even close to 95 per cent.

Presiding Officer, are you willing to invite Lorna Slater to correct the

Official Report

, or to come to the chamber to explain where the missing 1 billion containers have gone?

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

In general, the content of members’ contributions is a matter for members. However, I do expect that ministers should strive to respond to the specific detail of questions, wherever possible. It is certainly the case that a mechanism exists whereby members who become aware of an inaccuracy in any comment can correct the

Official Report

in that regard.

We will now move to members’ business. There will be a brief pause to allow members to leave the chamber and to allow those in the public gallery who also wish to leave to do so.

Eating Disorders Awareness Week 2023

Annabelle Ewing (Scottish National Party, Cowdenbeath)

I ask members who are leaving the chamber to do so quickly and quietly. I also ask those who are in the public gallery to leave quietly.

The next item of business is a members’ business debate on motion S6M-07887, in the name of Kenneth Gibson, on eating disorders awareness week 2023. The debate will be concluded without any question being put. Members who wish to speak in the debate should press their request-to-speak buttons.

Motion debated,

That the Parliament notes that Eating Disorders Awareness Week 2023 will take place from 27 February to 5 March; recognises that the focus of this year’s Eating Disorders Awareness week is eating disorders in males; understands that around 1.25 million people in the UK of all ages, genders, and backgrounds have these illnesses, and that around one in four people with eating disorders are male; acknowledges the work of the organisation, Beat, which is the UK’s Eating Disorder charity whose mission is to end the pain and suffering caused by eating disorders; notes that the work of this organisation through its national helpline, which is supported by funding from the Scottish Government as per the recommendations of the National Review of Eating Disorder Services, exists to encourage and empower people to get help quickly; recognises the work that has been undertaken by the National Review of Eating Disorder Services Implementation Group to develop an approach for taking forward the recommendations of the review; understands that the review will pave the way to more equitable, accessible and supportive services in Scotland; encourages the Scottish Government to continue to work with NHS boards and Beat to ensure that people needing treatment in the Cunninghame North constituency, and elsewhere, have the support that they require, and wishes Beat and all those involved in this year’s awareness week every success in their efforts to heighten awareness of eating disorders and their impact on society.

Kenneth Gibson (Scottish National Party, Cunninghame North)

I am pleased to open this debate on eating disorders awareness week 2023, which takes place from 27 February to 5 March. I thank colleagues who supported my motion, allowing this important matter to be discussed in the chamber, and I thank those who will contribute, along with Beat, the United Kingdom’s leading eating disorder charity. I also apologise for being unable to stay beyond the next speech, having completely forgotten a long-standing engagement relating to the Finance and Public Administration Committee.

Today, I honour the continued campaigning of my former MSP colleague Dennis Robertson, who tragically lost his daughter Caroline to anorexia nervosa in 2011, when she was only 18. Dennis co-chairs the Scottish Government’s national review of eating disorder services implementation group with Dr Charlotte Oakley. I am delighted to say that Charlotte is in the gallery today. That group was established to ensure that those suffering from eating disorders receive equitable, accessible and supportive care. Lived experience is invaluable as the group reviews current service provision in Scotland and implements new strategies to ensure that fast and effective treatment is available to all who suffer from eating disorders.

Eating disorders are often endured in secret and do not discriminate by age, gender or background. Of the 100,000 people in Scotland who suffer from eating disorders, one in four is male. Their symptoms often go unnoticed. It can be easy to assume that changes in eating habits or weight, or a fixation with body shape, happen because, “He loves working out,” or, “He is just a picky eater.” However, it is important to recognise that eating disorders are complex mental illnesses.

Raising awareness about the number of men who suffer from eating disorders is a central theme of this year’s awareness week. Beat hopes to shine a light on the differing experiences that men face—breaking gendered stereotypes to encourage males to obtain the support that is needed in order to recover.

In conjunction with this week’s theme, Beat launched the United Kingdom’s biggest survey to date on men’s experiences with eating disorders. Of those who took part, one in three had never accessed treatment, one in five had never spoken about their struggles, and four in five felt that raising awareness would help more men to get treatment sooner. Those results highlight the importance of encouraging men to seek support and, equally, the importance of high-quality treatment so that, when people find the courage to take vital steps towards recovery, the right help is available.

A supporter of Beat, Andy, has shared his route to understanding and overcoming his eating disorder. In his conversation with the charity, Andy said:

“the eating disorder does not discriminate ... it doesn’t care for intellect, qualifications or logic.”

Despite having a psychology degree, counselling qualifications and a robust understanding of mental health, Andy silently suffered from an eating disorder for 25 years. The disorder stayed with him through marriage, career progression and becoming a father. He revealed that, at its peak, it had cost him his

“mental health, confidence, self-esteem, employment”

and

“friendships”.

Andy contacted Beat last year, after looking into the support that was available. He said:

“I was heard. I was understood. I felt accepted, and human, the shame left me and the edge was taken off this huge burden.”

Since reaching out, Andy has joined an online support group that is supervised by Beat. Understanding that other men face the same burdens has been a key revelation in his recovery process and has allowed him to begin rebuilding and enjoying his life.

Dan, despite his love of football and boxing, developed anorexia nervosa in his late 20s. He has now shared his experience of overcoming societal stigmas to reach recovery. Due to stereotypes that are placed on eating disorders, he believes, he was undiagnosed for a long time, and he admitted that thoughts of having an eating disorder had never crossed his mind. While he was ill, Dan said, as far as he was concerned,

“men don’t get eating disorders, especially straight men and especially not anorexia”.

He did not know anyone else who had an eating disorder, so he knew of no reference point that might lead him to believe or accept that he needed help.

Due to family persistence, Dan visited his general practice, where he was listened to without judgment and given a referral to a specialist out-patient eating disorder service, which he reluctantly accepted. Throughout the years that he spent within that service, Dan met regularly with a therapist, a dietician and a doctor, who provided the highest level of support. Dan learned that he was not alone in battling anorexia. Speaking of the experience, he said:

“They genuinely celebrated my wins, picked me back up when I fell and even gave me that supportive kick up the backside when I needed it”.

Dan is now more than four years into recovery and, despite admitting that it was not an easy process, he has developed new hobbies and interests without the burden of his eating disorder overshadowing him.

Andy and Dan highlight how valuable our recovery services are. Denial and reluctance to seek help are feelings shared by both men and, no doubt, many other men whose health has been destroyed—like that of a far greater number of women—by an eating disorder. I hope that today’s debate and the campaigning that takes place throughout this week and the rest of the year will inspire others to seek assistance.

I am heartened by the Scottish Government’s commitment to delivering high-quality eating disorder recovery services, as is highlighted in its “Mental Health Strategy: 2017-2027”. Its ambition to

“prevent and treat mental health problems with the same commitment, passion and drive”

as we all have for

“physical ... problems”

is key to building public confidence in our services and encouraging more people to use the help that is available.

Mental health spending has almost doubled since 2007, with Scottish ministers investing £290.2 million this year to tackle mental health, deliver psychological therapies, reduce waiting times and improve community-based mental health and wellbeing support for children, young people and adults. That funding will help to ensure that people who have an eating disorder receive the treatment and support that they need, when they need it, regardless of who they are, where they live or what type of eating disorder they have. I encourage anyone in Scotland who suffers from an eating disorder, or who knows someone with an eating disorder, to reach out for help.

I will end by returning to Andy’s story. He poignantly said:

“Eating Disorders do not discriminate, but neither do Beat … and I know which one I’d rather have in my corner.”

Whether through opening up to a family member or friend, making an appointment with your GP or calling Beat’s helpline, support is available. Please reach out and grab it if you need it.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

Members will be aware that business resumes at 2 pm. A number of members wish to speak in the debate—there is a lot of interest—therefore, I ask members to limit their speeches to the four minutes that they have been allocated. That would be really helpful.

Emma Harper (Scottish National Party, South Scotland)

I welcome the debate, which allows us again to raise awareness of eating disorders. I congratulate Kenneth Gibson on securing it. He highlighted well the issues that surround eating disorders. Around 1.25 million people across the UK and about one in 50 people in Scotland live with an eating disorder, and the number increased during the Covid-19 pandemic. The pandemic exacerbated the situation, with a reported increase of 86 per cent in referrals to specialists between 2019 and 2020.

There is much discussion about what causes a person to have an eating disorder. Eating disorders affect people of any age, gender, ethnicity or background. Research has shown that there is a link between eating disorders and depression, low confidence and low self-esteem. It is important to remember that such disorders are not all about food but are about feelings as well. One of Beat’s key asks concerns social media. We know that social media can be the cause of eating disorders, and we need to ensure that people use it safely. I thank Beat for the work that it is doing on that, and I encourage everyone to look at its website, which is easy to navigate and comprehensive.

In March 2021, the Scottish Government completed a national eating disorder services review. The review’s report includes a total of 15 ambitious recommendations that are focused on ensuring that everyone affected by eating disorders receives timely and appropriate care and support. The recommendations include establishing a lived experience panel; better co-ordination of national activity and data collection; ensuring the national availability of self-help resources, which should be available to everyone at any stage in life; and a focus on early diagnosis with the aim of prevention. It is welcome that an implementation group was set up to review timescales and the cost of implementing the recommendations and that three sub-groups have been created within the implementation group. I would welcome an update from the minister on the implementation of those recommendations.

I contacted the dietetic team from NHS Dumfries and Galloway. The team has a dietician who works specifically with patients who are living with, or at risk of developing, an eating disorder. I heard that, because of the rurality of Dumfries and Galloway, some people who are at risk of developing an eating disorder might not be picked up as early or as easily as they could be and might be reluctant to access support because of the travel involved in attending appointments. Although that situation has improved with virtual appointments, there still exists an issue for people in rural areas with accessing eating disorder support services, so I ask the Minister for Mental Wellbeing and Social Care to ensure that rural areas are included in the approach moving forward.

I welcome the Scottish Government’s investment of £120 million in the mental health recovery and renewal fund with a focus on improved support for mental health in primary care settings and enhanced community support. I also welcome its increased investment in Beat, which has received more than £400,000 from the Scottish Government to support carers, adults and young people across Scotland who are coping with eating disorders. The funding follows the national review of eating disorder services in Scotland, which generated recommendations for treatment across the country. Those recommendations will be taken forward by the eating disorder services implementation group, which is responsible for planning and delivering improvements to eating disorder services.

I am conscious of the time, and I know that there are other speakers. I welcome the debate and thank the minister for the work that has been done so far and Kenneth Gibson for bringing the debate to the chamber.

Alexander Stewart (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

I am grateful for the opportunity to take part in the debate and congratulate Kenneth Gibson on securing it.

I apologise to you, Deputy Presiding Officer, the members and the minister, as I will not be able to stay for the full debate because I have a pressing engagement to attend to.

As we have heard, 2023’s eating disorders awareness week goes from 27 February to 5 March. Eating disorders in males, on which this year’s week focuses, are underreported. As the motion rightly highlights, although there are approximately 1.25 million people living with an eating disorder in the United Kingdom, around 25 per cent of them are male, which equates to around 300,000 individuals. Indeed, the National Centre for Eating Disorders confirms that it is hard to know just how many men are suffering from the condition at any one time. It is also hard to know what proportion of newly reported cases are male related. There could be many reasons for that. Perhaps, over the years, we have been overly sensitised by the media in relation to weight loss in individuals. Indeed, there are many who are likely to talk about the complexities of age. When it comes to dealing with the complexities and anxieties about shape, size and weight, those issues come into the equation.

Women often talk about food and dieting much more in relation to weight loss than men do, whereas men with eating problems often hide their difficulties by exercising—or over-exercising—when they visit the gym. Men are more likely to avoid seeking help, because of peer pressure. It is also widely known that, historically and across many cultures, men have been celebrated for how active they are and what they can conquer, while women have been valued for their appearance. That has changed as the culture has changed, and it is no longer the case, but there is still a complexity around media involvement and the shift that relates to all ages and genders.

Taking health orientation as a benchmark, it would seem that men are becoming increasingly involved in this area. The number of men with gym memberships has greatly increased, and cosmetic surgery has even become more apparent in males, along with dieting. There are changes that are taking place, and we all acknowledge that.

I have spoken about eating disorders previously in the chamber, and I have talked about Beat’s campaign, sock it to eating disorders. I also spoke in a similar debate last year, which was secured by Emma Harper, as I have an awareness of what is taking place and how it is managed. We have to understand and acknowledge conditions such as anorexia, bulimia, binge eating and other disorders.

In recent years, the support of MSPs has helped to increase the political profile of eating disorders. However, there is still much work to do to ensure that we encapsulate what is going on. I pay tribute to organisations such as the Scottish Eating Disorders Interest Group, Diabetes Scotland, Beat and our national health service, all of which provide vital support and ensure that vulnerable individuals are supported and looked after.

We must encourage and empower people to take action, no matter how long their symptoms have been present or what they have dealt with.

In conclusion, eating disorders are a terrible affliction for many individuals, male and female, and I encourage everyone to get the message out about them, whether or not a campaign is taking place, to ensure that as many people as possible, as often as possible and wherever possible, get that message.

Paul Sweeney (Labour, Glasgow)

I start by thanking the member for Cunninghame North for bringing this important issue to the chamber.

There is often a tendency to focus on anorexia or bulimia in discussions about eating disorders, but it is important to stress that there is a broad spectrum of these illnesses, which can impact on anyone, of any background. That is why I welcome that, this year, the focus of eating disorder awareness week is on eating disorders among men. Issues around eating disorders are often discussed in relation to women, but the reality is that approximately one in four people with eating disorders are men—increasingly, young men.

A recent UK survey on men with eating disorders, which was undertaken by the excellent charity Beat, found that half of those who responded did not realise that someone like them could develop a disorder of that kind, with 76 per cent of respondents indicating that access to specialist services must be improved. That has only been exacerbated by the tendency of social media to be curated in such a way that men and boys are increasingly feeling peer pressure with regard to their body image. Perhaps the minister could respond to that specifically in his reply, particularly with regard to how we encourage positive role models and the use of social media in a positive way to reinforce messages that will provide greater reassurance to young men about how they can manage their diet and their body. We should be pursuing that as a public health policy.

In 2021, the Scottish Government published its national eating disorder services review, which included recommendations that could go some way to improving access to those services in Scotland. However, I understand that, regrettably, those recommendations remain to be fully implemented, despite increasing demand for specialist help. Indeed, the number of people in Scotland with an eating disorder who were reaching a stage of their diagnosis at which they required admission for in-patient treatment rose to 233 in 2020, compared with 125 in 2019. That was a stark increase.

However, it is likely that the reality of eating disorders in Scotland is, sadly, even more bleak than the picture that is painted by that statistic on hospital admissions alone. The data that we collect on the prevalence of eating disorders in Scotland is poor. Only data on people with eating disorders who have been admitted as in-patients to hospitals is collected centrally. That is another symptom of our hospital-centric national health system. We need to push more of that activity out into communities and focus much more on prevention.

If we had central data on every person in Scotland who has received an eating disorder diagnosis, we could have an even clearer understanding of how many people are impacted by disordered eating, which could inform the structure, capacity and design of NHS services so that they could be scaled and adjusted accordingly.

Eating disorders are deadly illnesses. Indeed, eating disorders such as anorexia claim the most lives of any mental illnesses, so we must ensure that the health service is adequately resourced to treat them as such. It is estimated that, at present, people can wait as long as three and a half years to start treatment after their illness begins. That delay is potentially fatal for many, as recovery is much more likely for patients who receive medical intervention early, when behaviour can be adapted before it becomes too ingrained.

The pandemic has, of course, had an undeniable impact on the efficiency of our national health service. However, as is often said, politics is about choices. I urge the Government to reconsider its freeze on mental health service funding so that eating disorder services can meet the growing demand for specialist support.

This is the third year running in which we have rightly debated in the Parliament eating disorder awareness week. We must ensure that we do not just talk about why people with eating disorders deserve better; we must deliver clear and measurable solutions to that major public health concern.

Beatrice Wishart (Liberal Democrat, Shetland Islands)

I, too,

thank Kenneth Gibson for bringing this important debate to the chamber.

As the motion highlights—and as other members have highlighted—approximately 1.25 million people in the UK suffer from some form of eating disorder. However, despite the widespread nature of the issue, there is still a lack of understanding among the public of how prevalent those illnesses are, how to spot signs that someone is suffering and how to help.

The prevalence of eating disorders among males is even less understood. It comes as a surprise to many that males account for one in four of all those who suffer from an eating disorder. Therefore, it is positive that the focus of this year’s eating disorder awareness week is on breaking the taboo of male eating disorders.

The importance of breaking that taboo is clear. George, who is a young man with an eating disorder, described that importance. He said:

“Finding out I had an eating disorder was actually a relief. I’d spent five years being incredibly unwell. Because I was a man, no one even considered it.”

Across Scotland, the impact of eating disorders is only growing, and the problem has been exacerbated by the mental and emotional impact of the pandemic. That is borne out by the alarming increase in the number of children suffering with the condition who are admitted to Scottish hospitals. Between 2019 and 2021, that number increased by a staggering 86 per cent. It is clear that cases of eating disorders are on the rise, and the impact on children and young people in particular must be recognised and addressed.

A key part of tackling the rise of eating disorders and supporting those who suffer from them is ensuring that we do not do anything to inadvertently make things more difficult for those who are already affected. The Scottish Liberal Democrats have concerns about the impact of the Scottish Government’s plans to make calorie labelling on menus mandatory in food outlets, such as businesses, takeaways, restaurants and hospitals, as part of Scotland’s obesity strategy. A survey by Beat, which is the UK’s eating disorder charity, found that 95 per cent of people affected by eating disorders feel that calories on menus will negatively impact them. Many expressed concerns that calorie labelling would increase feelings of fear and guilt for those who are currently unwell, encourage behaviours such as restrictive eating, and make recovery more difficult.

Emma Harper (Scottish National Party, South Scotland)

My understanding is that some restaurants are making non-caloried menus available for people if they book a table, for instance. That might help to counter the issue of calories on menus.

Beatrice Wishart (Liberal Democrat, Shetland Islands)

I thank the member for that helpful information. However, more than half of the survey respondents said that they would go out to eat less frequently if such legislation was introduced in Scotland. Elsie, who suffers from an eating disorder, said:

“It took me years to unlearn calorie counting and to find joy in food again—to have it displayed so openly, to potentially hear friends discuss it right in front of me, would be very triggering and harmful.”

Dr Stephen Anderson, a consultant psychiatrist in eating disorders, has said:

“There is no good evidence that this kind of calorie labelling is effective in reducing obesity.”

The Liberal Democrats are therefore calling on the Government to scrap those plans.

Good work is being done to support those struggling with eating disorders. Just yesterday, I read about a young woman, Molly Smith, who has started her own podcast exploring disordered eating, in the hope that it can break down stigmas and misconceptions. Molly says that she wishes that she had had access to something similar when she was younger. Work such as hers is vital in helping those who are struggling and helping others to realise when they need help.

I take this opportunity to acknowledge the excellent work of Beat in raising awareness and providing much needed advice and support to those suffering from an eating disorder and those close to them.

I also echo the calls for the Scottish Government to work closely with NHS boards around the country to ensure that no one is left without the help and support that they need.

Gillian Mackay (Green, Central Scotland)

I, too, thank Kenny Gibson for bringing this important annual debate to the chamber.

Eating disorders are serious mental health issues that affect an estimated 1.25 million people in the UK. Eating disorders can affect anyone, of any age, gender, ethnicity or background. They have severe impacts on individuals and their families. Types of eating disorders include binge eating disorder, bulimia, anorexia, other specified feeding or eating disorder and avoidant-restrictive food intake disorder. Eating disorders have high mortality rates, with anorexia having the highest, and with one in six people with binge eating disorder attempting to end their life.

The theme of this year’s eating disorder awareness week is eating disorders among men. Unfortunately, there has not been a lot of research on that. However, an estimate based on the existing research suggests that about one in four of those with an eating disorder are men.

Men face increased stigma when it comes to eating disorders, and the current research is not representative enough, as it focuses mainly on white, cisgender men, so the true number might be much higher. Stigma is undoubtedly a factor in the low representation of men in such studies. For many, the perception that eating disorders affect only women and girls will undoubtedly prevent people from recognising their symptoms in the first instance.

Many of the signs and symptoms that we have spoken about in recent years or those that are reported do not align with the symptoms that many men might suffer. Not knowing that their symptoms are a problem, let alone that they might be a sign of an eating disorder, will prevent people from seeking help. Those who know that they might have an issue might not seek help for fear of perceptions of their problems and the associated stigma.

Beat’s website has this quote from a man sharing his experience:

“I feel like eating disorders are often spoken about in relation to women. I didn’t expect that this would happen to me. When I initially developed an eating disorder, I didn’t know I had one. I didn’t exactly fit the common stereotype, and even if I did, I was in complete denial”.

As Emma Harper and others have said, social media is one of Beat’s areas of focus. Social media has a huge part to play in this and, as someone who loves a good TikTok scroll before bed, I know that the sheer number of videos—often sponsored videos or adverts—that promote different diets, weight loss and fitness regimes is enormous. That is not to say that such videos in and of themselves are harmful, but what strikes me is the number of them and the often conflicting information.

Paul Sweeney (Labour, Glasgow)

The

member makes an important point about the pervasiveness of social media among young people in particular, including boys. Does she agree that the Government could consider a measure such as accreditation for certain social media content creators that reassure young people and provide them with good-quality advice, so that young people can be assured that they are getting good-quality, evidenced information?

Gillian Mackay (Green, Central Scotland)

That could certainly be looked at.

As members on all sides of the chamber have acknowledged, eating disorders are a societal problem. I would like us to look at all the different places where we could provide young people with nutritional information. We could certainly look at including such information as part of personal and social education, so that young people develop those habits early in life and cannot be influenced by the misinformation that we see on social media.

However, there is no easy solution to the issue. I remember growing up in the late 1990s and early 2000s, when diet culture was at its height. To a certain extent, even though attitudes move on and there is now more of a mainstream focus on being body positive, we have not got rid of that toxic diet culture. In a way, it rolls around every new year, when the goal—I have done this myself—is to lose weight rather than eat better and look after yourself. I cannot imagine how triggering that must be for people who have an eating disorder.

I realise that I am rapidly running out of time. Once again, I thank Kenny Gibson for bringing this important debate to the chamber, and I thank Beat for its continuing work.

Emma Roddick (Scottish National Party, Highlands and Islands)

I congratulate my colleague Kenny Gibson on his motion and on securing time today for us to debate eating disorders. This afternoon’s discussion of how eating disorders can affect men and boys has already been valuable.

When I was listening to Beatrice Wishart, I was thinking that 25 per cent of 1.2 million is significant enough, but if there are men and boys who are not being diagnosed or who do not consider that they might have an eating disorder, the true number could, as Gillian Mackay said, be even higher. The expectations that are placed on young women and girls, of which I have experience, will also have a negative impact on men and boys, as they may think that body image is a female issue.

I am grateful to Beat for providing a briefing ahead of the debate. I am aware that Beat recently actively supported a steering group in Shetland, in my region of the Highlands and Islands, that was aimed at supporting sufferers in the isles, following the recommendations from the Scottish Government’s national review of eating disorder services. Eating disorders can affect people of any gender at any age, wherever they live. However, Beat’s research into men and eating disorders showed that half of the respondents to its survey did not think that someone like them could develop an eating disorder.

It is quite hard—as I know, because I tried in preparation for the debate—to find support groups and specific information for people living in many of the communities, especially island communities, that I represent. I hope that the minister will be able to provide an update on the timescale for implementing the review recommendations, in particular on the creation of the national network.

As with so many things, it all comes back to understanding and acceptance. I have heard so many stories from friends and constituents about the specific incident that they call to mind when they talk about a time when their disorder developed or resurfaced. They talk about a family member calling them fat, or praising them for being skinny, sometimes when they were really young bairns. They talk about being bullied at school or even as an adult, and dismissed or mocked for their size—not understood or accepted, just othered.

We know that malicious actors online can target people who have mental health issues with posts and adverts that are aimed at creating eating disorders or making them worse. Although dealing with much of that is not in the gift of the Scottish Government, I question whether it is ever appropriate for people to be able to pay to target folk with online advertising based on protected characteristics. I am aware that those who run gambling adverts, adverts that take advantage of impulsive spending and adverts that aim to trigger suicidal feelings, harmful eating or other feelings relating to mental health issues can pay to target people whom algorithms have identified as possibly having a mental health issue.

However, it is not just anonymous accounts online that can cause people such distress and harm. We could all do with being more aware of how commenting on someone’s weight, even if we mean it in a nice way, can trigger dangerous feelings and habits. There is no need to tell people that you think they are too fat or that they look a lot better now that they have lost weight. They might not have lost it in a healthy way, or they might be really struggling with the weight loss. They might have lost it because of illness, stress or bereavement, or something else that they could do without a reminder of.

The fact that many people developed eating disorders over lockdown, or their eating disorders became more of a problem for them, demonstrates the link between eating disorders and anxiety, trauma and co-morbidities with other mental health issues. Those are all situations that any of us could find ourselves in, and we never know when that might be, so being considerate of how our words and actions may affect people with eating disorders benefits everyone.

In the meantime, if anyone has been listening to the debate and has found it difficult, I encourage them to contact Beat, which can be contacted on a live web chat. Beat’s phone number is 0808 801 0432, and it also has an email address.

Maurice Golden (Conservative, North East Scotland)

I thank Kenneth Gibson for securing this important debate on eating disorders awareness week. I take this opportunity to thank Beat, which has representatives in the public gallery, for its exceptional work raising awareness around eating disorders and offering vital services to those who are suffering.

I will also take this opportunity to thank those who take the courageous steps to speak about their experiences, raising awareness and informing decision makers across the chamber of this cruel, devastating and complex mental illness, so that we can work together on improving services and lives for those who are suffering.

When it comes to supporting those with eating disorders, I believe that we are largely on the same page across the chamber. Today, given the time, I will focus my remarks on calorie labelling on menus, given the Scottish Government’s ambition to incorporate calorie content into menus in restaurants, cafes and takeaways across Scotland.

Having formerly worked with the healthy living award, I am aware that the benefits of a balanced diet cannot be overestimated. From our fruit and vegetable intake to high-fibre foods and protein, nutritional value is paramount. Take the humble avocado. About 60 per cent of its fat is monosaturated fats, which research suggests help to protect against heart disease and lower blood pressure. Avocados provide an excellent source of potassium, folate and fibre, all of which benefit the heart and the cardiovascular system. However, having calories on menus ignores all of that vital nutritional information, instead focusing on that one metric—calories. As the minister is aware, there is very little evidence that having calories on menus manages obesity in the long term.

There is much that we agree on in this area. I welcome the views from the Scottish National Party benches at Westminster earlier this week. Carol Monaghan, the SNP MP for Glasgow North West, stated:

“We also need the removal of calories from menus; their inclusion was aimed at tackling obesity, but unfortunately the message is hitting the wrong people.”—[

Official Report, House of Commons

, 28 February 2023; Vol 728, c 235WH.]

That view was echoed by her colleague, Patricia Gibson, SNP MP for North Ayrshire and Arran.

Calories on menus are a blunt instrument. I am aware that, in December, representatives of Beat met the Minister for Public Health, Women’s Health and Sport, Maree Todd, to hand over an open letter with 3,500 signatures. I would like to hear clarity from the Minister for Mental Wellbeing and Social Care in his response, explaining why the Scottish Government is so resistant to taking an evidence-based approach to the policy. It feels like the Scottish Government is sidelining the views of those with lived experience of an eating disorder. The minister knows that, for individuals suffering or recovering from eating disorders, the policy could cause immense harm.

A 2017 study found that, when calorie labelling was on menus, participants with anorexia nervosa ordered significantly fewer calories for hypothetical meal choices, while participants with bulimia nervosa ordered significantly more calories. We also know that calorie labelling on menus is very likely to be ineffective in improving public health.

I urge the Scottish Government to halt the policy, or at the very least pause the legislation, until further research is released. For all those who suffer with eating disorders, I urge the minister to listen to the 3,500 signatories and put a stop to calories on menus.

Carol Mochan (Labour, South Scotland)

In the interests of time, I will try not to repeat points that other members have made. As my colleague Paul Sweeney stated, Scottish Labour supports the aims and objectives of eating disorders awareness week 2023, with this year’s focus on eating disorders in men.

To better understand these complex mental illnesses and put gender stereotypes to bed, it is right that we applaud Beat for launching the UK’s biggest survey to date on men’s experiences with eating disorders. I acknowledge the work that has been undertaken on raising awareness and bringing people with lived experience together, and on advancing the care of people with eating disorders.

As we heard, the statistics are stark. I will not go over them again, but we know that, tragically, one in four people who experience an eating disorder are men, and one in five of those men report never having discussed those struggles, which is shocking. That acts as a reminder to us all that eating disorders are prominent and serious. Eating disorders still have a taboo around them that means that men in particular feel that they cannot speak out.

As Beat has indicated, it is essential that we take seriously our role as members in raising awareness, fighting for funding for research and scrutinising the Government in delivering the full implementation of the 2021 national review of eating disorder services, which includes 15 ambitious recommendations. Like other members, I would be interested to hear the minister’s response to the review. I hope that the minister will answer some of those points in his closing remarks, particularly the group’s conclusions from September 2022, which recommended a national eating disorder network. When will he oversee the implementation of those recommendations?

Furthermore, the 2021 national review of eating disorder services highlighted a lack of training and education on eating disorders for healthcare workers in Scotland. I spent many years working in the NHS as a dietician as part of the allied health professions team, so I know only too well the importance of raising awareness of those conditions and disorders and of training future healthcare professionals.

It is clear from members’ speeches that we all take the issue very seriously. The research work and contributions made by charities, experts and others are important, but there is more to do. With cross-party support, which we seem to have in the chamber today, we can work together and address the concerns of individuals, charities and others across the country. I look forward to hearing the minister’s remarks on the issue.

Kevin Stewart (Scottish National Party, Aberdeen Central)

I welcome the annual debate to mark eating disorders awareness week. We have been having the debate for many more than three years now, Mr Sweeney, and I pay tribute to Dennis Robertson, who kicked off these debates. It allows us to raise awareness about eating disorders and the terrible impact that they can have on those who are diagnosed and on their family and friends.

I thank Kenny Gibson for lodging the motion this year, and Emma Harper, who lodged the motion a couple of years in a row before that. The debate focuses our minds on how significant the subject is. We know that the past few years have been incredibly difficult for everyone, including for people with disordered eating and those diagnosed with an eating disorder.

I assure all members in the chamber this afternoon that the Scottish Government continues to work closely with NHS boards, local authorities and third sector organisations such as Beat to ensure that people who require support for an eating disorder have access to the right care and treatment. I extend my thanks and appreciation to everyone across the country who works day in and day out to support the recovery of people with an eating disorder and their families.

As we have heard, the theme of this year’s awareness week is eating disorders in men. Beat believes that around one in four people who develop an eating disorder are men. It is clear from its recent survey that more needs to be done in that regard. Mr Gibson mentioned Andy and Dan. The reality is that we probably all know an Andy or a Dan, but we do not know that they are suffering from an eating disorder. We need to get awareness right, we need to change attitudes and we need to reduce stigma further, so that no one is afraid to come forward for help.

Over the past three years, we have taken significant actions to ensure that those who require support for an eating disorder can receive timely access to appropriate treatment. That has included providing further funding to NHS services and the third sector, working with those at the heart of our services to deliver the recommendations from the national review of eating disorder services.

Since the publication of the report of the national review in 2021, we have made positive progress in delivering the review’s short-term recommendations and in the planning to deliver the remaining recommendations.

In 2021, in response to the national review, I established an implementation group to support us in delivering the recommendations. That group of dedicated individuals has worked hard to identify priority areas on which we should focus our resources. That has included developing quality standards for eating disorders and mapping out the delivery of longer-term improvements to services through a national eating disorder network.

The group will be publishing its final report in the coming weeks, providing an update on the progress that we have made so far in delivering the national review’s 15 recommendations. The report will also outline our next steps and the actions that we are taking this year.

Over the next year, key progress will be made to support improvements to eating disorder services. The quality standards will be consulted on this spring, with the intention to publish those by the end of 2023. Recruitment for a national eating disorder lived experience panel has already started, with panel meetings commencing in mid-April.

To improve data around eating disorders, we will be undertaking an NHS benchmarking deep dive on eating disorder services, which will provide us with an up-to-date baseline position on services across NHS boards to inform future policy development and resourcing.

An absolute priority over the next six months is the establishment of a national eating disorders network, which will support the delivery of the work that I have outlined and the remaining recommendations from the national review.

Additionally, we will continue to provide funding to NHS boards to ensure that those accessing specialist support for an eating disorder can access the support that they require. This year, we allocated £46 million via the mental health outcomes framework to continue delivering improvements in child and adolescent mental health services—CAMHS—psychological therapies, eating disorders and neurodevelopmental services for children and young people.

I turn now to some of the most important issues that members have brought up in the debate. I start with calorie counting, which was mentioned by Beatrice Wishart, Maurice Golden and Emma Harper. The Scottish Government takes eating disorders extremely seriously, and we will take the views that have been expressed fully into account. We have been engaging with Beat and other organisations, and we will continue to do so. We have been engaging with a wider range of key stakeholders on this work so that we get it absolutely right. I want to ensure that we do our best here. We will soon publish an independent analysis of responses to the consultation on the issue. We need to take that evidence-based approach that Mr Golden mentioned.

Social media was a feature of most speeches, including those of Ms Mackay, Mr Sweeney and Ms Harper. There is a great opportunity in the UK Government’s Online Safety Bill but, unfortunately, it keeps clawing back on all of that. That is, quite frankly, not good enough. As a Government, we have been investing, particularly in young people’s organisations, to highlight the difficulties with using social media and talk about avoiding them. However, we need the UK Government to move further on the Online Safety Bill in relation to not just eating disorders but suicide prevention and self-harm prevention.

Paul Sweeney (Labour, Glasgow)

Will the minister take an intervention?

Kevin Stewart (Scottish National Party, Aberdeen Central)

I will take Mr Sweeney’s intervention if I am allowed to, Presiding Officer.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

Please be brief, Mr Sweeney.

Paul Sweeney (Labour, Glasgow)

I remember the iconic Health Education Board for Scotland adverts in the 1990s and 2000s, when I was young. They were very effective in pushing public health messages, but that approach has, sadly, fallen away in recent years. Will the minister consider using targeted social media advertising by the Government to reinforce positive messages?

Kevin Stewart (Scottish National Party, Aberdeen Central)

We have been doing that but not necessarily through the Government. For example, we have provided resources to the Scottish Youth Parliament and the Scottish Children’s Parliament for the Mind Yer Time web resource, which goes into the subject of social media in depth, highlighting the issues and giving young folk advice on screen time and sleep, and the impacts on body image and mental wellbeing. I think that having young people speaking to young people is probably better than having Government speaking to young people, but I am willing to consider all of that as we move forward.

Emma Harper made a very important point about rural services, and Beatrice Wishart and Emma Roddick mentioned rural and island communities. We have commissioned directors of e-health to work with others, including Public Health Scotland, to improve data from all over Scotland, but we are also looking at how we can deliver better in our rural and island communities. We have to make sure that the services that we provide are for all of Scotland.

Presiding Officer, I know that I have gone over my time, so I will finish. I again thank Kenneth Gibson for lodging his motion and I reiterate my support for and thanks to the staff across Scotland who have been working tirelessly to care for those with an eating disorder. I pay tribute to Dennis Robertson for the work that he has done and to Charlotte Oakley for her work in jointly chairing the implementation group with him.

We all still have work to do to deliver on recommendations from the national review. I assure all members in the chamber that ensuring that we improve support for those with an eating disorder is a top priority for me and for the Government.

13:42 Meeting suspended.

14:00 On resuming—

Education and Skills

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

The next item of business is portfolio questions on education and skills. Members who wish to ask a supplementary question should press their request-to-speak buttons during the relevant question, or type “R” in the chat function.

Swimming Lessons

Fulton MacGregor (Scottish National Party, Coatbridge and Chryston)

1. To ask the Scottish Government what action it has taken to encourage local authorities to provide all primary school children with the opportunity to access swimming lessons. (S6O-01948)

Shirley-Anne Somerville (Scottish National Party, Dunfermline)

We have been working with Scottish Swimming, Education Scotland, sportscotland and Scottish Water to pilot bespoke interventions and approaches within local areas to provide opportunities for more children to become confident, safer and competent swimmers. I recognise the importance of ensuring that all children have equal opportunities to access swimming lessons, regardless of their families’ social or economic circumstances. Therefore, inclusion is central to our approach, and there will be a specific focus on targeting areas within quintile 1 of the Scottish index of multiple deprivation.

Fulton MacGregor (Scottish National Party, Coatbridge and Chryston)

In a recent poll of more than 1,000 people in Scotland, 93 per cent of respondents agreed that all children should learn to swim, and 90 per cent agreed that learning to swim is an important part of every child’s education. What further action does the cabinet secretary think that local authorities—including mine, North Lanarkshire Council—can take to ensure that every primary school pupil goes to secondary school having had the opportunity to learn to swim?

Shirley-Anne Somerville (Scottish National Party, Dunfermline)

A number of local initiatives are in place across Scotland that help to promote learning to swim. The Scottish Swimming learn to swim framework, which seeks to help children become safe and competent swimmers by developing a consistent structure and set of quality standards for lesson providers, is delivered by 37 partners in 162 pools across Scotland. The framework is already delivered by the main community learn

to swim providers in 25 out of 32 local authority areas, and it is also provided in a further two local authority areas, albeit not by the main community learn to swim providers. Progress is being made within two further local authority areas towards delivering the framework in 2023. The active schools network also plays an important role in supporting local swimming clubs to link to schools.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

There are a couple of supplementary questions. They will need to be brief, as will the responses.

Brian Whittle (Conservative, South Scotland)

According to Scottish Swimming, more than four in 10 children leave primary school in Scotland unable to swim. We all know the positive impact that swimming can have on physical and mental health. We all understand about the ability to swim promoting inclusion, about learning away from the classroom and about swimming being an important life skill. In fact, I would include the ability to swim in relation to the attainment gap. Councils are at breaking point and are being forced to consider the most extreme budget cuts, including cuts to free swimming. Does the cabinet secretary agree that ensuring that our children can swim is an investment? What more will the Scottish Government do to make sure that all children get that opportunity?

Shirley-Anne Somerville (Scottish National Party, Dunfermline)

Mr Whittle raises an important point about the physical and mental health benefits of swimming. In my original answer to Fulton MacGregor, I pointed out the importance that the learn to swim programme places on ensuring that children who are from the most deprived communities in Scotland in particular are able to take swimming lessons. We are determined to continue to work on promoting equality of access.

Paul Sweeney (Labour, Glasgow)

My constituents, the Spiers family, have been campaigning for better water safety in Scotland for the past seven years, following the tragic death of their son Christopher in the River Clyde in 2016. Even competent swimmers can be vulnerable to injury or death in the water. Does the Scottish Government agree that more engagement with local authorities is required in order to establish easy access to water safety training and education across Scotland?

The Deputy Presiding Officer

As briefly as possible, please, cabinet secretary.

Shirley-Anne Somerville (Scottish National Party, Dunfermline)

I thank the member for bringing up that important expansion of the topic. Water safety education and drowning prevention are exceptionally important. It is not just about having confident swimmers but about the dangers of cold water shock, for example. That is also included in the work that Water Safety Scotland and Education Scotland are continuing to do.

Colleges and Universities (Funding)

John Mason (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Shettleston)

2. To ask the Scottish Government what its position is on whether current funding for colleges is fair, when compared to the funding received by universities. (S6O-01949)

Jamie Hepburn (Scottish National Party, Cumbernauld and Kilsyth)

The Scottish Government values the tertiary education sector, with each part making a crucial and unique contribution to Scotland. The 2023-24 budget allocates nearly £2 billion to colleges and universities, which continues the trend of a year-on-year increase of that budget in cash terms.

The college sector has been allocated an increased resource and capital budget of more than £30 million for 2023-24, at a time when public finances are significantly constrained, which demonstrates our commitment to the sector.

The college

sector resource budget will be increased by 3.8 per cent compared to this financial year, and as compared to a 2.5 per cent uplift for universities.

John Mason (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Shettleston)

I agree that both colleges

and universities are very important. However, some—not all—universities are sitting on considerable reserves of money, while some colleges are really struggling and are trying to reach the hardest-to-reach people, both younger and older, in our communities. Does the minister not think that we should perhaps be reskewing the funding a little bit away from universities and towards colleges?

Jamie Hepburn (Scottish National Party, Cumbernauld and Kilsyth)

As John Mason recognised in his question, the position across universities is not entirely uniform, so we must make sure that we continue to support our universities to be sustainable.

In relation to the core of John Mason’s question, I refer back to the figures that I just gave. We have given the tertiary sector a £46 million resource uplift this year, which we have weighted towards colleges: there is £26 million for colleges and £20 million for universities.

If we consider the capital allocation, the increase for colleges is a direct result of our taking the decision to shift some of that resource from universities. We are undertaking what we can to make sure that we sustain the sector.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

There is a lot of interest in the question and a number of members wish to ask supplementaries. I want to get them all in, but they will need to be brief, as will the responses.

Pam Gosal (Conservative, West Scotland)

The minister talked about additional funding for colleges but failed to mention that colleges need that money to support additional rounds of voluntary severance or to potentially reduce the risk of compulsory severance—the situation is that bad. Can the minister guarantee that any additional funding will be flexible and for colleges to use at their discretion? If he cannot do that, will he tell the chamber what his spending priorities for the funding are?

Jamie Hepburn (Scottish National Party, Cumbernauld and Kilsyth)

Pam Gosal referred to the additional resource. We are in a period where we need to look ahead and ensure that our college sector is responding to the priorities of our society and economy. That is what that resource is there to do. We are also engaged in a wider discussion about how we can empower and provide more flexibilities to the college sector more generally, so that colleges can continue to respond within the resource that they have already been allocated. That is my key priority for college resource.

Michael Marra (Labour, North East Scotland)

College principals are acting today on the basis of a real-terms cut, because the £26 million in funding that the minister is talking about is not available to them and they do not know what they are allowed to use it for. It is caught between the Scottish Funding Council and the Scottish Government, and there is no clarity. Can the minister today provide clarity on what that money can be spent on?

Jamie Hepburn (Scottish National Party, Cumbernauld and Kilsyth)

That money will be spent on exactly what I have just said—on making sure that the college sector is able to continue to be responsive to the needs of local communities, our economy and society. The precise application is a matter of discussion with the SFC, and I expect it to be engaging fully with colleges in that regard.

Willie Rennie (Liberal Democrat, North East Fife)

The minister is talking rubbish. That money is not available for colleges. The reality is that, 20 months on from when the Funding Council did its review on the future of the sector, he and the Government still cannot decide what they want from the sector. When is he gonnae make his mind up about the colleges?

Jamie Hepburn (Scottish National Party, Cumbernauld and Kilsyth)

I do not even understand what the basis of that question was.

Stephen Kerr (Conservative, Central Scotland)

You are kidding! You do know.

Jamie Hepburn (Scottish National Party, Cumbernauld and Kilsyth)

I have set out quite clearly what our priorities are in relation to that resource. I will leave it to others to decide who is talking rubbish.

Curriculum for Excellence

Annie Wells (Conservative, Glasgow)

3. To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on the continuation of the curriculum for excellence. (S6O-01950)

Shirley-Anne Somerville (Scottish National Party, Dunfermline)

Curriculum for excellence continues to help equip pupils with the knowledge, skills and attributes needed for learning, life and work, as demonstrated by the fact that a record high number of young people were in work, training or further study after leaving school last year. Moreover, the gap between school leavers from the most and least deprived areas who are in work, training or further study is down to a record low.

However, we are not complacent, and every curriculum should seek to evolve and improve. That is why we are progressing an ambitious package of education reform, including taking forward curriculum-related recommendations made by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, Professor Louise Hayward’s work and the national discussion.

Annie Wells (Conservative, Glasgow)

New research conducted by the University of Stirling found that, under curriculum for excellence, there has been a decrease in the number of national qualification entries in secondary 4. Curriculum for excellence was meant to broaden a child’s education, not narrow it. What has gone wrong? Is the cabinet secretary concerned that a child’s educational experiences have significantly narrowed?

Shirley-Anne Somerville (Scottish National Party, Dunfermline)

Curriculum for excellence is about broadening the experience in schools. Although we will give the findings in the Stirling report detailed consideration, it is encouraging to see, for example, how many young people have taken advantage of the breadth of choice that is now available in the senior phase, such as qualifications to do with skills for work and foundation apprenticeships. It is not just a matter of comparing the data that relates to qualifications and qualification structures, but a matter of looking at the widened opportunities that we have outside Scottish Qualifications Authority exams, as well as foundation apprenticeships, as I said.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

Karen Adam, who joins us remotely, has a brief supplementary question.

Karen Adam (Scottish National Party, Banffshire and Buchan Coast)

I welcome the update from the cabinet secretary. Just this week, new statistics have shown that attainment numbers for positive destinations are at a record high, with more than 95 per cent of school leavers in education, employment or further training three months after leaving school. Although that is testament to the hard work of our teachers and young people, does the cabinet secretary agree that the figures also prove that this Government is delivering in education?

Shirley-Anne Somerville (Scottish National Party, Dunfermline)

As Karen Adam rightly points out in her question, there was exceptionally good news in the statistics around positive destinations that came out earlier this week.

I think that that is testament to the exceptionally hard work of our teachers, support staff and young people, and it very much demonstrates their record and our continued focus on delivering for Scotland’s children and young people through education.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

The next question is from Pauline McNeill, who also joins us remotely.

Student Rental Accommodation (University of Glasgow)

Pauline McNeill (Labour, Glasgow)

4. To ask the Scottish Government what steps it is taking to support Glasgow students in student rental accommodation, in light of the reported proposed rent increases by the University of Glasgow. (S6O-01951)

Jamie Hepburn (Scottish National Party, Cumbernauld and Kilsyth)

As autonomous institutions, universities are responsible for their operational matters, including the rental costs of student accommodation. However, I expect them to take into account the current cost of living crisis and to set rents accordingly.

In addition to tuition fees and a range of living costs support, we are supporting students directly by providing £16.8 million in hardship funding in the current academic year for higher education students who are experiencing financial hardship. We are currently exploring options to further support students in the 2023-24 academic year.

Pauline McNeill (Labour, Glasgow)

The minister will be aware that, in a report by the National Union of Students Scotland, purpose-built student accommodation has been described as “appalling” by the president, Ellie Gomersall. The report found that the average rent for that accommodation

“has increased by 34% since 2018”,

and that a quarter of students who were sampled in the report could not pay their full rent on one or more occasion.

This has become a real problem, and rent increases of 9.5 per cent by the University of Glasgow seem incredibly harsh. If I have understood the minister’s answer, he is hinting very strongly that he also thinks that that is wrong.

In view of that, and in view of the fact that private landlords can increase rents by only up to 6 per cent, does the minister believe that the 9.5 per cent increase is unfair to students, that the Scottish Government should legislate to cap high rents in student accommodation in the private sector, and that a modern, fair Scotland would do that?

Jamie Hepburn (Scottish National Party, Cumbernauld and Kilsyth)

We are undertaking a review of purpose-built student accommodation right now to consider a range of questions, and the issue can be considered as part of that activity. Fundamentally, I very much agree that it is incumbent on every institution, whether it is a private provider or an academic institution, to consider the position of students and the affordability of rents, particularly in the context of the current cost of living crisis.

Sue Webber (Conservative, Lothian)

In Scotland, 12 per cent of students have experienced homelessness and others have been forced to live in makeshift accommodation. At the beginning of this academic year, the University of Edinburgh converted a common room into makeshift accommodation to house students on a short-term basis.

What guarantee will the minister give to first-year students enrolling in Scottish universities that they will be able to access student accommodation?

Jamie Hepburn (Scottish National Party, Cumbernauld and Kilsyth)

The Scottish Government is not a direct provider of student accommodation but, again, I expect every institution, when it offers a place to a student, to take very serious account of the ability of that person to accommodate themselves adequately for the coming year. It is incumbent on institutions to do that.

Budget 2023-24 (Education and Skills Provision in Glasgow)

James Dornan (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Cathcart)

5. To ask the Scottish Government what impact the Scottish Budget 2023-24 will have on education and skills provision in Glasgow. (S6O-01952)

Shirley-Anne Somerville (Scottish National Party, Dunfermline)

The Scottish Government’s education and skills portfolio will provide more than £4.2 billion in 2023-24 to help to improve the life chances of our children, young people and learners of all ages and to support everybody to reach their full potential.

Through the local government settlement, we will provide Glasgow City Council with £1.54 billion of revenue to fund local services, which is an important contribution that we can make to its delivery of education.

As part of this settlement, Glasgow City Council will receive nearly £16.5 million to at least maintain the numbers of teachers and support staff at current levels and to continue to ensure that there are places available on the teacher induction scheme for probationer teachers who need them.

Glasgow City Council is due to receive more than £7.5 million of strategic equity funding to support education recovery and tackle the poverty-related attainment gap. Schools in Glasgow will receive more than £23 million in pupil equity funding, which will empower Glasgow’s headteachers to improve the educational outcomes and wellbeing of children affected by poverty in their schools.

James Dornan (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Cathcart)

As we approach Scottish apprenticeship week, will the cabinet secretary join me in recognising the crucial role that apprenticeship schemes play

in providing positive destinations for young people, in my constituency and across Glasgow? As we celebrate this year’s achievements, can she say what progress has been made in aligning work-based learning opportunities to support the important transition to net zero for future generations?

Shirley-Anne Somerville (Scottish National Party, Dunfermline)

Supporting Scottish apprenticeship week is very important. It is an annual celebration of the success of the Scottish apprenticeship scheme. Our priority is to ensure that apprenticeships are of high quality and lead to sustainable employment opportunities.

We know that the climate emergency will require enormous societal change, and we are exploring how we can effectively integrate sustainability and green skills into the apprenticeships programme through climate emergency skills action plans.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

I am going to take a supplementary question, but in doing so, I remind members that this is a question about education and skills in Glasgow.

Roz McCall (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

I am looking at it from the point of view of the Scottish budget proposal. Last week, in the Education, Children and Young People Committee, the cabinet secretary revealed that £123 million would be taken from the education and skills budget for 2023-24 to pay for the teachers’ deal. What will be cut from the education budget, and how might that apply to Glasgow?

Shirley-Anne Somerville (Scottish National Party, Dunfermline)

Here we go. Day, in day out, we get a demand—normally in a point of order from Stephen Kerr—that I do more to solve the teaching pay dispute—

Stephen Kerr (Conservative, Central Scotland)

Would you like a point of order?

Shirley-Anne Somerville (Scottish National Party, Dunfermline)

However, when we say that we are making progress—which, I have to say to Roz McCall, will actually require funding—we are criticised for doing that.

As the Scottish Conservatives keep demanding that we solve the pay dispute, they must bear in mind the reality that it will cost money, which will have to come from somewhere in the Scottish education budget. If they start to have a serious discussion about that, I will start to take their questions and proposals on the teachers’ dispute more seriously.

Stephen Kerr (Conservative, Central Scotland)

What? Oh!

Baby Box Scheme

Emma Roddick (Scottish National Party, Highlands and Islands)

6. To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on the number of baby boxes—[

Interruption

.]

The Deputy Presiding Officer

Excuse me, Ms Roddick; could you resume your seat, please?

Mr Kerr, please refrain from shouting across the front benches; cabinet secretary, please do not respond.

Emma Roddick (Scottish National Party, Highlands and Islands)

To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on the number of baby boxes that have been distributed since the scheme began. (S6O-01953)

Clare Haughey (Scottish National Party, Rutherglen)

At its heart, Scotland’s baby box scheme strongly signals our determination that every child, regardless of their circumstances, should get the best start in life. Our universal baby box programme, the only one in the United Kingdom, opened for registration on 15 June 2017, and delivery of baby boxes nationwide began on 15 August 2017 for all babies born and resident in Scotland.

I am delighted to say that, since then, we have distributed a total of 250,560 baby boxes to families across Scotland, providing essential items for the first six months of a newborn’s life.

Emma Roddick (Scottish National Party, Highlands and Islands)

I thank the minister for her response. I welcomed the news of a few days ago that a quarter of a million baby boxes have now been delivered across Scotland. Will the minister outline what she sees as the benefits of ensuring that all expectant parents across Scotland have access to essentials for their newborn, regardless of their circumstances?

Clare Haughey (Scottish National Party, Rutherglen)

Preparing for a baby’s arrival can be one of the most exciting but also one of the most nervous times for a family. Scotland’s baby box supports parents by giving them access to essential items, as well as important practical information on how to support their new arrival.

As well as practical support and items that are designed to have a positive impact on parent and child interaction, our baby box provides a financial saving of over £400 per family through the items provided. In the current cost of living crisis, that is making a huge difference to families across Scotland.

Curriculum for Excellence (Subject Choice)

Martin Whitfield (Labour, South Scotland)

7. To ask the Scottish Government what its response is to the recent study by the University of Stirling, published on 20 February 2023, which showed that the curriculum is narrowing under the curriculum for excellence, with a reduction in the choice of school subjects. (S6O-01954)

Shirley-Anne Somerville (Scottish National Party, Dunfermline)

The Scottish Government welcomes the publication of the report. It states that, under the curriculum for excellence, a growing proportion of school leavers are arriving at positive destinations within three months of leaving school, which suggests that the implementation of the curriculum for excellence is having a positive effect on student outcomes.

In terms of curriculum choice, the senior phase is designed as a three-year experience, in order to offer greater personalisation and choice for learners. What matters most is the collection of qualifications, awards, skills and experiences that a young person leaves school with, not the subset of qualifications that they achieve in one year of the senior phase. The record high number of young people who were in work, training or further study after leaving school last year is a reflection of the success of the curriculum for excellence, which continues to equip young people with the knowledge, skills and attributes that are needed for learning, life and work.

Martin Whitfield (Labour, South Scotland)

I thank the cabinet secretary for that answer and for her previous comments and her continued focus on education.

Marina Shapira and Mark Priestley’s

report, “Choice, Attainment and Positive Destinations: Exploring the impact of curriculum policy change on young people”

, might have made difficult reading. I quote their blog post on its findings, which says:

“the research provides ample evidence that a great deal of curriculum making is driven by a need to fulfil external demands for the right kinds of data, particularly relating to attainment.”

Further on, they say:

“It is a cause for concern that some curriculum making practices have negative consequences on subsequent attainment and transitions, predominantly affecting young people from less-advantaged backgrounds. These social justice issues are particularly ironic—and alarming—given the government’s policy focus on closing the gap.”

Does the cabinet secretary agree that by narrowing the choices that are available to our young people, we are doing a disservice to efforts to close the poverty-related attainment gap?

Shirley-Anne Somerville (Scottish National Party, Dunfermline)

It is a very welcome report. I met Professor Priestley to discuss it recently, and I also had the pleasure of attending a lecture that he gave on it in Glasgow.

He raises a number of challenging points, not just for the Government but for our agencies and local authorities, and we are taking those very seriously.

One item that I will touch on in some detail, if I can, Presiding Officer, is around data. It is important that we collect data, but as I have discussed with Professor Priestley, we are at one with him about the importance of gathering it for the right reasons. We collect data, for example, on why children are not attending school to ensure that we are providing the support to schools to provide the support to the young people to get them back in. It is done not in order to hold them to account, but to support them.

That is a very important point, and there is a lot more that we can do on that within the national improvement framework. I give it as an example of the work that we are taking forward very seriously with Professor Priestley, who of course sits on our Scottish education council.

Mr Whitfield read out some quotes, but there are several positive comments in the report. For the sake of time, I will not go into them in detail, but I am sure that the member is well aware of them.