Scottish Parliament, 24 March 2022

325 contributions from 74 members. The official report.

General Question Time

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

Good morning. I remind members of the Covid-related measures that are in place and that face coverings should be worn when moving around the chamber and across the Holyrood campus.

The first item of business is general question time. In order to get in as many members as possible, I would appreciate short and succinct questions and answers.

Census 2022

David Torrance (Scottish National Party, Kirkcaldy)

1. To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on the next steps in collating Scotland’s census data. (S6O-00918)

Angus Robertson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Central)

Scotland’s census day was Sunday 20 March, and I am pleased to say that census returns are currently in line with our expected targets. I thank everyone who has taken the time to participate. The aim of the census is to deliver a set of questions and associated guidance that enables all of Scotland’s people to access, understand and complete the census. Every household in Scotland has a legal obligation to complete a census return, and National Records of Scotland has ensured that people are able to access a range of help and support to do so.

David Torrance (Scottish National Party, Kirkcaldy)

Although census day was on Sunday, will the cabinet secretary take the opportunity to highlight the importance of completing the census and outline what scope there is for people who have not responded yet to send back returns, now that census day has passed?

Angus Robertson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Central)

Scotland’s census 2022 is the official count of every person and household in the country, and it is the only questionnaire of its kind to ask everybody the same questions at the same time.

We have relied on the information from censuses for more than 200 years. It remains the best way to gather vital information for Government, councils, the national health service and a range of users in the public, private and third sectors.

There is still time to submit responses. Although census day was last Sunday, National Records of Scotland is still accepting submissions. Support is available to all households to help them to complete their census, online or via a free helpline. For people who need the number, it is 0800 030 8308.

Alexander Stewart (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

There were difficulties across my region for individuals who were struggling to get paper copies. What assessment has been done to ensure that they received their paper copies on time? If they did not, what outcomes are expected from that?

Angus Robertson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Central)

The feedback that I have had on the work of the contact centre, which is where people called to secure a written census questionnaire, is that it has been going well. As with any large-scale operation—there are more

than 1.2 million households in Scotland—there will always be administrative shortcomings. If the member would forward me any specific details on the cases that have been raised, I would be happy to look at those.

What has been reported to me is the efficient working of the contact centre. There were obviously large numbers of calls at the beginning of the census operations, but, since then, waiting times have reduced significantly and people who require paper copies of the questionnaire have been receiving them.

Christine Grahame (Scottish National Party, Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale)

Constituents have contacted me because they were unsure what was meant by Scots in the question on how and when they use Scots. The Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body recognises that Scots includes Doric and Lallans as well as Glaswegian, Shetland, Orcadian and so on. Does the cabinet secretary share my concern that the data may not be accurate because people wrongly believe that they do not use Scots?

Angus Robertson (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Central)

Christine Grahame and any other members who have constituents who are uncertain about any of the questions that have been put to them should please draw their attention to the fact that there is very extensive guidance on the Scotland’s Census website. There is a

lso a free helpline on the number that I have given: 0800 030 8308. If people have questions about Scots or anything else, they should please raise them directly and receive the guidance that they require to complete the census to their satisfaction.

Apprenticeships

John Mason (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Shettleston)

2. To ask the Scottish Government what action it can take to demonstrate the viability of apprentice programmes as an alternative to a university education, in light of a Universities and Colleges Admissions Service report published in 2021 reportedly showing that young people are advised against apprenticeships. (S6O-00919)

Jamie Hepburn (Scottish National Party, Cumbernauld and Kilsyth)

In Scotland, we have committed to maximising apprenticeship opportunities as a key way for employers to invest in their workforce, providing the skills that the economy needs now and for the future.

We recognise that apprenticeships are demand led. It is critical that we promote their benefits and the fact that undertaking apprenticeships is a key way for individuals to learn while they earn and for employers to ensure that their workforce has the skills that are needed now and for the future.

Skills Development Scotland’s all-age career service and our developing the young workforce school co-ordinators, as well as events such as Scottish apprenticeship week, are ensuring that young people are aware of all the options that they have and are supported to make an informed choice about their post-school destination.

John Mason (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Shettleston)

Does the minister accept that some schools appear to overemphasise university? Although going to university is a tremendous achievement for many young people, apprenticeships are the right way forward for others.

Jamie Hepburn (Scottish National Party, Cumbernauld and Kilsyth)

Fundamentally, the answer is yes. I refer back to Mr Mason’s question with regard to the concerns arising from the UCAS report. That report did not cover Scotland’s perspective. I perceive a change in schools in that they are doing more to promote apprenticeships as a good destination for young people. We need to do more in that regard, and we will continue to promote apprenticeships as a very good option for all young people through the array of activities that we are undertaking through developing the young workforce.

Pam Gosal (Conservative, West Scotland)

Through meeting apprenticeship providers, I have heard that small and medium-sized enterprises need to upskill. However, accessing the available funding can be difficult for micro SMEs because they do not have the time or the resources to look for funding or complete applications. The red tape results in fewer people being taken on. What action will the Scottish Government take to simplify the process for taking on apprentices or upskilling current staff?

Jamie Hepburn (Scottish National Party, Cumbernauld and Kilsyth)

On the suggestion that fewer apprentices are being taken on, that is not the case. The most recent set of statistics shows 1.8 times the number of modern apprenticeship starts this year, and there were nearly twice the number last year. It is important to place those statistics on the record. Nevertheless, I recognise that it is incumbent on us to hear that feedback. I have discussed the matter with SDS previously, and my clear position is that the organisation should continuously consider the process for applying for support and that I expect it to undertake work when improvements are needed.

Stephanie Callaghan (Scottish National Party, Uddingston and Bellshill)

I appreciate the minister’s answers so far. Can he comment more widely on any Scottish Government plans to strengthen the partnership working between secondary schools, businesses and colleges, particularly on trade apprenticeships, to ensure that young people have a chance to get a taster of trades and make fully informed career choices?

The Presiding Officer

Can the minister comment widely and briefly?

Jamie Hepburn (Scottish National Party, Cumbernauld and Kilsyth)

I will do my level best to square that circle, Presiding Officer.

I agree that there is a need to improve young people’s experience of workplace learning. Fundamentally, that is what our

developing the young workforce initiative is all about. It is making progress and will continue to do so.

Social Care

Colin Smyth (Labour, South Scotland)

3. To ask the Scottish Government what assessment it has made of the current levels of unmet need and staff vacancies in social care. (S6O-00920)

Kevin Stewart (Scottish National Party, Aberdeen Central)

The Scottish Government is aware that the social care sector at present faces significant pressures, including because of high levels of unmet need, and the situation is under constant review. We recognise that the number of staff who are unavailable due to absence and the number of vacancies are key challenges in addressing that unmet need. The cross-sectoral adult social care gold group meets fortnightly, providing strategic national oversight on system pressures and resilience, alongside key partners.

The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care and I have recently restarted fortnightly meetings with reps from local areas that face the most acute social care pressures, and our discussions focus on reducing system pressures.

A series of “lessons learned” events are being planned with health and social care partnerships at which to explore learning and share best practice in responding to recent system pressures. The first such event is scheduled for 25 March 2022.

The Presiding Officer

Could you please conclude, minister?

Kevin Stewart (Scottish National Party, Aberdeen Central)

In October, in response to anticipated system pressures, the Scottish Government announced £300 million in winter pressures funding to increase social care capacity.

Colin Smyth (Labour, South Scotland)

The minister did not say what the current assessed level of vacancies is. I can tell him that, in Dumfries and Galloway, there are more than 100 vacancies and 3,000 hours of unmet need at the moment, which is causing significant levels of delayed discharge. The minister will surely accept that, several months after the Government announced what the level of pay for carers would be, it is clearly not managing to fill vacancies. Unless the Government increases the pay rise, we will continue to have a crisis of unmet need and a huge number of vacancies.

Kevin Stewart (Scottish National Party, Aberdeen Central)

We are well aware of the vacancies, and we have done a lot to get more folk into social care and retain the staff that we have. In recent times, we have got 1,000 additional folk into health and social care posts.

The Scottish Government is fully committed to the principles of fair work, which is why we announced the two recent pay rises. We pay more here than is paid in Wales, which is Labour run, and south of the border.

We know that there is more to do, and we are committed to national pay bargaining in our national care service proposals. However, we will do more before then, in partnership with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities and others.

Food Banks

Colin Beattie (Scottish National Party, Midlothian North and Musselburgh)

4. To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on the consultation on a draft national plan to end the need for food banks. (S6O-00921)

Shona Robison (Scottish National Party, Dundee City East)

No one should

have to rely on charitable food provision, which is why we are developing a national plan to end the need for food banks. There have been more than 400 responses to our consultation, which will now be independently analysed to inform our final national plan.

My aim is that the plan will further progress our human rights approach and strengthen our cash-first response. There are early indications that the approach is making a difference, with the Trussell Trust reporting a marked reduction in the number of emergency food bank parcels in Scotland between April and September 2021 compared with 2019.

Colin Beattie (Scottish National Party, Midlothian North and Musselburgh)

I welcome the Scottish Government’s announcement that it plans to increase eight Scottish social security benefits by 6 per cent from 1 April. I hope that that will help to support my constituents who have been impacted by United Kingdom Government welfare cuts.

Does the cabinet secretary share my concerns about the growing demand for food banks and the impact that UK Government welfare cuts have had on the most vulnerable people in our society?

Shona Robison (Scottish National Party, Dundee City East)

Yes, I do. That is why I am committed to publishing a plan that will use the powers that we have to make food banks the last port of call. We have been doing all we can to mitigate the impact of cuts and, last year, we invested more than £2.5 billion to support low-income households. However, we do all that with one hand tied.

Colin Beattie referred to benefit cuts. The devastating cut to universal credit was the biggest overnight cut to benefits since the welfare state was established. Yesterday, the chancellor’s statement was a missed opportunity that completely failed to help people in need, as evidenced by devastating analysis that has been carried out by the Resolution Foundation and the Joseph Rowntree Foundation.

Homes for Ukraine Scheme

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

5. To ask the Scottish Government what discussions it has had with the United Kingdom Government regarding matching Ukrainian refugees with households in Scotland that have registered under the homes for Ukraine scheme. (S6O-00922)

Neil Gray (Scottish National Party, Airdrie and Shotts)

We continue

to work closely with the UK Government on the design and operation of the homes for Ukraine scheme. We are focused on ensuring a smooth and early flow of data to support the operation of the Scottish Government’s supersponsor programme and to meet our objectives for a warm and well-delivered welcome for all those who arrive in Scotland. Just yesterday, I met Lord Richard Harrington to emphasise that need.

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

I thank the minister for his response and his engagement on issues that have arisen at local level in Orkney over recent weeks.

Although 150,000 people—me included—have signed up to the homes for Ukraine scheme, only around 12,000 Ukrainian refugees have so far been given permission to come to the UK. As the barbaric shelling of cities such as Mariupol continues, an estimated 10 million Ukrainians have already fled their homes. When does the minister expect the matching of refugees to individual households in Scotland to begin? What further support is being provided to local councils to ensure that they can meet the needs of people arriving from Ukraine?

Neil Gray (Scottish National Party, Airdrie and Shotts)

Obviously, we are still reliant on the UK Government’s immigration system to work at pace to get through visa applications and ensure that that data comes to the Scottish Government. We are maintaining pressure on the UK Government to ensure that that happens at pace, given everything that Liam McArthur said about the situation on the ground.

We have provided more than £13 million of support that will be distributed to local authorities to acknowledge the work that will be required of them. That is over and above the £10,500 that the UK Government has committed to provide to local authorities for each person who arrives from Ukraine.

General Practitioners (North East Scotland)

Liam Kerr (Conservative, North East Scotland)

6. To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on what assessment it has made of general practitioner numbers and surgery provision in the north-east. (S6O-00923)

Humza Yousaf (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Pollok)

Health boards and health and social care partnerships are responsible for assessing the needs of their patients and ensuring that GPs are contracted or otherwise engaged to meet those needs. The Scottish Government funds GP practices in the north-east and elsewhere, of course, based on their estimated share of overall national workload.

Liam Kerr (Conservative, North East Scotland)

Last week, the people of Aberdeen learned that the Great Western medical practice, with 10,000 patients, might have to take drastic measures because of a lack of GPs in the north-east. When I asked about similar situations at Carden medical centre, I got weasel words and fudge. Combined with the situation at Great Western, that means that 18,500 patients could be affected.

The people of the north-east do not want the cabinet secretary’s standard pivot to what is happening in England or how many GPs there are in the central belt—they want a clear answer. What is he doing to increase the number of GPs in Aberdeen and the north-east, and in what year does he project that there will be enough?

Humza Yousaf (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Pollok)

A lot is happening in Scotland, particularly in the north-east. For example, the rediscover the joy programme is being piloted in four rural health boards in the north of Scotland. It has also been expanded to Tayside. On top of that, we have the golden hello scheme operating where there are GP shortages.

The member says that he does not want me to pivot, but he cannot hide away from the fact that the Government is committed to increasing GP numbers by 800 by 2027. We are four years into that commitment, and we have increased GP numbers by more than 250.

The member might not want to hear this, but in Scotland we have more GPs than they have in the rest of the United Kingdom.

Liam Kerr (Conservative, North East Scotland)

What is he doing?

Humza Yousaf (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Pollok)

The member might not want to hear it, but he should listen. In Scotland, we have 94 GPs per 100,000 people, but in England, where his party is in charge, that number is 76 GPs per 100,000.

The Presiding Officer

I will take a brief supplementary from Mercedes Villalba.

Mercedes Villalba (Labour, North East Scotland)

One of the key reasons that was used to justify the tendering of Old Aberdeen medical practice was to improve the sustainability of GP services in the city, but many of the city’s practices are now facing closure and unsustainable GP to patient ratios, which poses a threat to patient care. The last time that I asked cabinet secretary to meet those who are affected, he said that he would consider it, but when I followed up with him I was told that he did not have time. Three months have passed, so I am asking the cabinet secretary once again whether he will meet staff and patients to hear their concerns.

Humza Yousaf (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Pollok)

Of course, I will consider meeting Mercedes Villalba. The last time that she raised the issue with me, I gave her the details of the health and social care partnership where the issues are being taken forward.

I have looked at the Old Aberdeen medical practice, which she raised a moment ago, and my understanding from my conversations with the board is that more skills and more resources are now available, and that is of course good for the patients of the practice.

There were many pressures on my diary at that time, but I say again to Mercedes Villalba that, when my diary allows, I will be more than happy to meet her and campaigners.

Women’s Safety

Gillian Martin (Scottish National Party, Aberdeenshire East)

7. To ask the Scottish Government how it is making the streets safer for women and girls. (S6O-00924)

The Minister for Community Safety (Ash Regan)

The Scottish Government is taking a broad range of actions to ensure that women and girls are and feel safe within our communities. We are improving our laws and investing in policing, and we have proposed a new national planning policy embedding human rights and equality in decision making to deliver better places for everyone.

Our public health approach to reducing violence, including the equally safe strategy, continues to focus decisively on preventing violence and tackling the underlying attitudes that perpetuate it. Our new two-year delivering equally safe fund will award £38 million to projects that focus on early intervention and prevention.

Gillian Martin (Scottish National Party, Aberdeenshire East)

I am particularly interested to ask about the excellent “Don’t be that guy” video campaign, and how it has been rolled out to reach the target audience of, I imagine, young men. Are there plans for any future campaigns and materials? Specifically, how are we assisting those who work with our young people with materials that can help them to tackle male behaviours that intimidate women and girls and ultimately put them at risk?

Ash Regan

Police Scotland recently launched the “Don’t be that guy” public awareness campaign asking men to challenge their own and, importantly, each other’s behaviours and attitudes towards women. It is an important message for Scottish society, including for policing as individuals and as a service.

The campaign has generated a lot of interest and seems to have been very well received. It will be good, in time, to see what impact it has.

Police Scotland has advised me that more than 6 million people worldwide have seen the “Don’t be that guy” film and more than 80,000 people have visited the website. Government organisations and police services across the UK and beyond are changing the focus of their public communication on sexual violence to align with the “Don’t be that guy” strategy.

Police Scotland is developing a number of public campaigns for the forthcoming year that target men and which, under the “Don’t be that guy” banner, are related to different aspects of men’s violence.

The Presiding Officer

That concludes general question time. Before we move on to the next item of business, I invite members to join me in welcoming to the gallery Liesbeth Homans, Speaker of the Flemish Parliament. [

Applause

.]

Ferries (Construction Contract)

Douglas Ross (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

1. I begin by echoing the comments that we heard in this chamber earlier this week, following the sad and untimely passing of our friend and Scottish Conservative colleague, David Hill. David died playing the sport that he loved for the Parliament team that he helped to set up. I know from having spoken in the past couple of days to his parents, Rodger and Sharon, that they are understandably utterly devastated and heartbroken, but they are so appreciative of the support that they have received from parties across the chamber.

I also thank you, Presiding Officer, and the Scottish Parliament team, who have helped not only David’s family, but his friends and colleagues who were with him when this tragic accident occurred. [

Applause

.]

Yesterday, Audit Scotland’s damning report on the Scottish National Party Government’s failure to build two lifeline ferries was published. Kate Forbes was put forward to respond in the chamber and to the media, but she could not say who made the key decision to sign off the disastrous contract.

Therefore, can the First Minister give a straight answer where the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and the Economy could not? Which minister gave the green light for the contract—against expert advice?

Nicola Sturgeon (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Southside)

First, I take this opportunity to express my shock and distress at the untimely and tragic passing of David Hill. It is a mark of the man he was that he had such good friends right across the political spectrum in Parliament.

When David died, he was, obviously, doing what he loved most. I hope that, in time, that will be of some comfort to his loved ones.

I had contact with David’s dad on Sunday, when I offered all possible help that the Scottish Government could provide. My thoughts are with Rodger, Sharon and David’s wider family and friends, and, of course, with all his Conservative Party colleagues.

Before I turn directly to the substance of the question, I say candidly that the problems with the procurement—or rather, with the construction; the procurement was not the issue—of the ferries have resulted in delay, cost overruns and a very negative impact on island communities. That is far from satisfactory, which is putting it mildly.

The report that Audit Scotland published yesterday is entirely fair and justified. There are a number of complexities, but the contracts in question are public contracts, so the buck stops with the Scottish Government. Pre-2019, there were issues with the quality of work and the progress of work when the yard was in private ownership. Since nationalisation of the yard at the end of 2019, more problems have been identified, with the cabling problem being the most significant. On top of that, of course, there has been additional delay because of Covid.

However, we remain focused on delivery of the ferries. The actions that the Scottish Government has taken have helped to secure jobs at the last remaining commercial shipbuilder on the Clyde. I think that that is important.

To turn briefly to Douglas Ross’s specific question about who was transport minister at the time, I note that that is, of course, a matter of public record. It was Derek Mackay, but our Government—I understand that the idea might be alien to the Conservatives—operates under collective responsibility. Ultimately, as with any decisions, whether I am personally involved in them or not, responsibility stops with me.

Many of the documents that relate to the decision have been in the public domain for some time. They clearly narrate the issue of the lack of a full-refund guarantee. They also clearly narrate the mitigations that were put in place to reduce that risk. Those documents are in the public domain and are available for anyone to review.

Douglas Ross (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

Yesterday, the finance secretary could not tell Parliament or the media who was to blame but, 24 hours later, the SNP spin machine has spun into action and it is the fault of the disgraced former finance minister.

Let me get this absolutely straight. The First Minister is claiming that she had no involvement. The Audit Scotland report confirms that SNP ministers were aware of the huge risk of the project, but carried on regardless. The Government that she leads willingly decided to charge ahead, against expert advice. The First Minister is now trying to blame Derek Mackay. It seems to be very convenient that the person who is getting the blame is no longer here. It was the First Minister’s Government, her Cabinet and her decision.

Let me ask again. She is saying that the transport minister took that decision. What input did the First Minister have in that decision, through the Government that she leads?

The First Minister

I am genuinely not sure whether Douglas Ross listened to a single word that I said. He asked who the individual minister was; I did not volunteer the information. It is a matter of public record who the transport minister was at the time of the decision; it is a matter of public record that it was Derek Mackay.

Here is the bit that I know does not suit the script that Douglas Ross prepared before he came into the chamber. Here is what I went on to say. I will repeat it, just to be absolutely clear. This Government operates by collective responsibility and I am ultimately responsible for all decisions that the Government takes. The buck stops with me. I have never tried to shy away from that on any issue. I know that that is not how things are done in the Conservative Government at Westminster, but that is how things are done here. Perhaps Douglas Ross might want to reflect on what I am actually saying, before he asks his next question. I am ultimately responsible for all decisions of the Scottish Government. That is why I am standing here answering questions.

I turn to the substance of the issue. As I said, the documents are available in the public domain. Caledonian Maritime Assets Limited had expressed a particular concern about the lack of a full-refund guarantee. Those concerns are set out in the documents. So, too, are the actions that were taken to mitigate the risks. The Government then came to a decision based on the balance of risk. The documents expressed the view that the current deal that has been negotiated with Ferguson Marine (Port Glasgow) Limited is the best deal that can be achieved, given the financial restrictions that the yard is operating under.

Three key changes were made; they are all set out in the Audit Scotland report. They were: that there was an increase in the final payment so that more money was being withheld; that CMAL would take ownership of all equipment, machinery and materials as they arrived at the shipyard; and that FMEL would require all major suppliers to offer a full-refund guarantee. Those were the changes that reduced the risk and underpinned the decision that the Government arrived at.

I return to the central point. I am not defending the cost overruns or the delay in construction of the ferries; they are completely unacceptable. However, at all points, the motivation of the Government has been to save jobs and the shipyard and to ensure that the ferries can be delivered, albeit that they will be late, which is a matter of deep regret. That is what we continue to focus on.

Douglas Ross (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

The First Minister says that she takes ultimate responsibility, then throws an ex-minister—a disgraced SNP ex-minister—under the bus. If we are looking for ultimate responsibility from the First Minister, will she tell us why a key safeguard that could have saved Scottish taxpayers hundreds of millions of pounds was removed? Will she tell us, with her ultimate responsibility, why Ferguson’s started building the ferries when there was not even an agreed design? With her ultimate responsibility, will she tell us why Ferguson Marine was given the contract in the first place? With her ultimate responsibility, will she tell us why there is not going to be a public inquiry into the whole scandal?

We need a public inquiry because Audit Scotland tried to get answers but could not. Audit Scotland has said:

“There is no documented evidence to confirm why Scottish ministers were willing to accept the risks of awarding the contract to FMEL, despite CMAL’s concerns. We consider that there should have been a proper record of this important decision.”

The decision is one of the most reckless decisions that have ever been taken by a Scottish Government, and so far it is costing a quarter of a billion pounds of taxpayers’ money. Why cannot the body in Scotland that is charged with scrutinising public spending give a shred of evidence to justify your Government’s decision?

The First Minister

Nobody who

had read Audit Scotland’s report could reach that particular conclusion, but I will come back to that.

I will say, first, that if Douglas Ross thinks that it is unimportant who the individual minister was and that—as I agree—the buck stops with me, why was his first question to ask me who the individual minister was? Clearly, he must have thought that it was important. I did not intend to come here and do anything but accept full responsibility.

I come to the questions—let me answer them one by one. I have already run through the decision to proceed and the lack of the full builder’s refund guarantee. That decision was clearly taken based on the balance of risks. CMAL had concerns about the matter, but a range of actions had been taken—I have set out exactly what they were—to mitigate the risks. The conclusion, which is in the documentation that is publicly available, was that the deal that was negotiated was the best one that could have been achieved in the circumstances.

I think that the second question that Douglas Ross asked me was why was the contract awarded to FMEL when it was the most expensive bid. That question, too, is answered in the Audit Scotland report. The review found that it was the most expensive bid—if memory serves me correctly, that was known at the time—but CMAL had

“also assessed it as being the highest quality”,

so

“Overall, it achieved the highest combined cost and quality score of the seven bids”.

That was the decision that was taken at the time. Of course, ministers are not involved in procurement decisions.

Lastly, on the question of a public inquiry, we have had a parliamentary committee look into the issue and we have now had a major Audit Scotland review. Audit Scotland itself recommends, at page 7 of its report, that on completion of the vessels, there should be

“a formal review of what went wrong ... with a view to learning lessons”.

The Scottish Government will consider what form that further review should take. We will consider the matter carefully and will, of course, report to Parliament in due course.

Douglas Ross (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

This is ridiculous. We are fortunate in Scotland to have two Governments, but only one of them is currently building ships in Scotland that actually sail. That is because of this First Minister’s record in government. Let us look at it again.

Ferguson Marine’s was the most expensive bid figure, yet—as the First Minister has just said—it was chosen on the basis of quality. It was chosen on the basis of quality when ferries are two and half times over budget. Hundreds of millions of pounds of taxpayers’ money have already been wasted. There is a five-year delay at least, and there are still 175 faults with the ferries, which are still being built. This is one of the worst public spending disasters since devolution.

Who messed up? Who knows, in the Scottish National Party’s secret Scotland—because all the evidence is gone? Audit Scotland could not get to the bottom of a number of points. The only scraps of paper that we have left on the disastrous decision are the old SNP press releases that claimed that they were saving Scottish shipbuilding.

When the First Minister visited the ferries in 2016, were the painted-on windows not a sign that her decision was an absolute shocker?

The First Minister

What Douglas Ross has demonstrated is that he has not spent much time reading the hundreds of pages of documents that are in the public domain. There is one issue in relation to which Audit Scotland refers to a lack of documentation. That is a matter that the Government needs to reflect on seriously and well. However, there are hundreds of pages of documents. I have referred to many of them already, and I think that they would bear some attention being paid to them by Douglas Ross.

I said candidly at the outset that I think that the situation is deeply regrettable.

When I visited the yard it was, of course, in private ownership, and assurances were given about the completion of work. The problems that have led to cost overruns, delays and—worst of all—a negative impact on our island communities, are deeply regrettable. At every step, the motivation of the Government has been to secure employment and the shipyard, and to get the ferries completed. That is what we will continue to focus on. We will learn the lessons in the Audit Scotland report and we will make sure that all its recommendations are taken forward.

Douglas Ross might think that it is unimportant that we have saved 300 jobs and a shipyard, but I think that those things matter, which is why we will now focus on making sure that the yard has a positive future.

Spring Statement 2022 (Cost of Living)

Anas Sarwar (Labour, Glasgow)

2. As other members have done, I pay tribute to David Hill. I send my particular condolences to his family and friends and I recognise the wonderful tribute that Jamie Greene, who employed him, paid to David. I send my condolences to Jamie Greene and, in particular, to all our Conservative colleagues in the Parliament. David was respected across the political spectrum and he had friends not just among MSPs but among the many staff who work in and around the Parliament building.

Yesterday, faced with the biggest fall in living standards since rationing, the Chancellor of the Exchequer failed to present a spring statement that would make life easier for millions of families. He failed to introduce a windfall tax, he failed to put more money in people’s pockets and he raised the tax burden on millions of families across the United Kingdom.

He must have been taking lessons on missed opportunities from the First Minister. In her Government’s budget, the First Minister had the opportunity to tackle the cost of living crisis but, just like the Tories, her Government failed to do so. Copying Rishi Sunak’s policy, by giving households less than £4 a week in a council tax rebate, will not cut it. Will the First Minister accept that the actions that she has taken so far are not enough to confront the crisis?

Nicola Sturgeon (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Southside)

In the Scottish Government’s budget, we doubled the Scottish child payment, which is game changing for families with children who are living in poverty. If memory serves me correctly, the Labour Party shamefully voted against that measure in the Scottish budget.

Yesterday’s spring statement showed a callous disregard for the misery that people are already facing and that will only get much worse. Household incomes are about to suffer their biggest fall in more than 60 years. The Resolution Foundation has estimated that an additional 1.3 million people across the UK, including half a million children, will be pushed into poverty. There was nothing in the spring statement to help the poor and those on the lowest incomes, which I think was shameful.

The most shameful thing about the chancellor’s announcements yesterday is that he squirreled away money for pre-election bribes. That money could be spent right now to help those who are in desperate circumstances. His actions yesterday in that regard were disgusting.

With regard to the Scottish Government’s actions, we have limited powers and resources but, due to our wider long-standing policies, people here already pay less, on average, in council tax, water bills and rail fares. Unlike people who live south of the border, people in Scotland pay nothing for prescriptions, eye tests or university tuition. In addition to the £150 payment through council tax, we have decided to uprate devolved benefits by 6 per cent. The failure to do so south of the border is having the biggest impact on low-income families.

As I have already said, we have introduced the Scottish child payment, we are investing in the Scottish welfare fund and we are increasing the fuel insecurity fund. We will continue to do everything that we can within our powers and resources, but anybody who is serious about helping the lowest paid would be arguing and demanding that powers and resources be taken out of the hands of Rishi Sunak and his type and put into the hands of this Parliament.

Anas Sarwar (Labour, Glasgow)

We welcome the doubling of the Scottish child payment, but that plan predates the cost of living crisis. More than 270,000 children will not benefit from it, and poverty campaigners say that it needs to go further. The First Minister wants to obsess about powers that she does not have, but she has been in power for 15 years, so she has power and she should use it to change people’s lives, because that is what the job is for.

Let us look at what she has done with the powers that she has. She has copied Rishi Sunak’s council tax rebate, failed to target support to those who are most in need, increased rail fares and put up water charges for Scottish households. We have published detailed plans on how to confront the cost of living crisis but, so far, the Scottish National Party has not listened.

Here is another meaningful action that the Government can take: Scottish Water, which is owned by the Scottish Government, is currently sitting on a cash mountain of £428 million, so Scottish Labour is calling not just for the freezing of water charges but for a £100 rebate for every household in Scotland. Does the First Minister believe that that money is better off in Scottish Water’s bank account or in struggling families’ accounts?

The First Minister

We will consider everything that we can reasonably do to help. Anas Sarwar said that the doubling of the Scottish child payment predated the cost of living crisis. That is, of course, one reason why, this very afternoon in the Parliament, Shona Robison will deliver a statement accompanying our updated tackling child poverty delivery plan, setting out the further action that the Government will take to lift children out of poverty, rather than putting more children into poverty, as the United Kingdom Government is doing. I am surprised that Anas Sarwar did not know that.

Yes, my party has been in government for some time, which is why people in Scotland do not pay for prescriptions or eye tests, or to go to university. It is why we have, on average, lower council tax than England and Labour-run Wales have. It is why more people pay no council tax at all, because we retained the council tax reduction scheme. We are using our powers, and the doubling of the Scottish child payment is the principal example of that.

We will continue to look at what more we can do. Anas Sarwar is right to continue to press us to do more, but he would have more credibility if he did not also back the retention of the powers over welfare and public spending that are in the hands of Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak. Until he changes that position, I do not know whether many people in Scotland will take him seriously.

Anas Sarwar (Labour, Glasgow)

That is simply not good enough. People are struggling right now and, as per usual, the First Minister wants to make this a constitutional debate. I hate to break it to her but, see whether people voted yes or no, their bills are still going up and they need help from the Government.

The First Minister should take action to tackle the cost of living crisis.

Let us look at the tragic stories from across the country over the past week. We have heard about people stealing fuel canisters in the Highlands; families turning down fresh vegetables from food banks because they cannot afford to turn on the gas cooker; and people digging up their gardens to grow their own food because they cannot afford to buy it.

That is why Labour has set out the actions that both Governments should take: a windfall tax on oil and gas giants to reduce bills by £600; the £200 as a grant, not a loan; and, here in Scotland, a £400 support payment for struggling families; a £100 rebate on water bills; and a freeze on water charges and rail fares. That is real help. It is supporting families with more than £1,000, in contrast to the Government’s flagship cost of living policy, which would give families less than £4 a week. When will the First Minister understand that she has to do better than that?

The First Minister

Our flagship policy is the Scottish child payment, which, of course, Anas Sarwar and his colleagues voted against when the budget came before the Parliament.

We will continue to look at everything and anything that we can do within the powers and resources that we have. Shona Robison will set out further actions when she delivers her statement this afternoon. There is real misery—a wave of human misery—being experienced right now, which will only get worse. On that, Anas Sarwar and I do not disagree, and we will continue to do everything that we can.

However, I am afraid that there is a real issue at the heart of this. If members look at the Joseph Rowntree Foundation analysis that was published this morning, they will see that those in the lowest income decile will see their household incomes cut by almost 6 per cent. The main reason for that is the failure to uprate benefits by more than 3.1 per cent. Where we have control of benefits here, we have uprated them by 6 per cent.

The reason why we cannot do that for the main benefits such as universal credit is that we do not have the power. The reason why we cannot impose a windfall tax to help with energy costs and why energy costs remain reserved is because, when it came to a choice between yes and no, Anas Sarwar encouraged people to vote no, and because people voted no, those powers remain in the hands of Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak. Until Anas Sarwar addresses that issue, we in this Parliament will always be limited in what we can do. When will he wake up and realise that?

Alison Johnstone (Presiding Officer, Lothian)

We move to supplementary questions.

Historical Forced Adoption (Consultation)

Marie McNair (Scottish National Party, Clydebank and Milngavie)

A constituent of mine is a victim of historical forced adoption and is concerned about confidentially of victims who are responding to the Scottish Government consultation. She explains that filling in the responses is

quite difficult for victims, as it brings up a lot of emotion and has a big impact on people filling it in. That could have a significant impact on the responses given and the effectiveness of the consultation.

What assurances can the First Minister give my constituent and all victims of forced adoption that any information that they give will be treated confidentially and that they will not be identifiable from their responses?

The First Minister

That is a really important issue. I recognise that it is also an extremely sensitive issue, so I thank everybody who has responded to the consultation so far. I appreciate that it takes a lot of courage to share deeply distressing stories such as that.

We are offering a private space for people to come forward to share experiences in complete confidentiality. I reassure the member’s constituent that participants can take part entirely anonymously and that no data that could identify an individual will be retained.

We also have a dedicated helpline, in collaboration with Health in Mind, to provide interim support to individuals who want to make a contribution. The closing date for responses is 20 April. Following that date, all responses will be analysed and considered, along with any other available evidence.

Murray Royal Hospital

Murdo Fraser (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

Over the past decade, no fewer than four women have died while patients on the Moredun ward at Murray royal hospital in Perth, while suffering acute mental health disorders. Today,

The Courier

reports that a fifth patient died on the ward in the same period, but their death and the circumstances have never been made public.

Those patients were in hospital to keep them free from harm, but they and their families have been failed. Why is that happening and what is being done to stop it?

Nicola Sturgeon (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Southside)

Those are very serious issues, and where lessons need to be learned, they are learned by health boards and, where necessary, by the Government. I am not aware of the detail of the case reported in

The Courier

today. I will ensure that I become aware of that detail and, when I have had the opportunity to do so, I am happy to write to Murdo Fraser.

Hourglass

Jackie Baillie (Labour, Dumbarton)

Hourglass is a 24/7 helpline supporting older people and their families dealing with abuse and neglect. It is the first service of its kind in Scotland and it has just launched, as a result of a 46 per cent rise in elder abuse calls during the pandemic. Elder abuse is an undersupported and underreported area. Given that shocking statistic, the Hourglass helpline will be a very welcome resource.

Hourglass is funded by the Home Office to provide a service in England. Will the First Minister agree to meet Hourglass and consider providing support for that valuable service in Scotland?

Nicola Sturgeon (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Southside)

Services such as Hourglass are very important. Elder abuse is awful, and the pressures of the pandemic are understood by all of us.

I am happy to have the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care meet or talk to Hourglass, to see what the Scottish Government can do to support it.

Displaced People (Support)

Bob Doris (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn)

My constituent’s family have, thankfully, made it safely to Glasgow from Kyiv, including a 68-year-old relative travelling on a Ukrainian passport. They have asked me whether their relative will qualify for the concessionary travel scheme—I hope that the First Minister can confirm that.

More widely, though, what steps is the Scottish Government taking to assist those arriving in Scotland from Ukraine, or indeed elsewhere, to access all the services and entitlements that they should have the right to receive at such a difficult time?

Nicola Sturgeon (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Southside)

I am relieved and pleased to hear that Bob Doris’s constituent’s family have made it safely to Glasgow. I know that they will receive a warm welcome here.

I would be happy to provide any detailed information on the support services that are available, given their particular circumstances. We have a proud history of welcoming displaced people and a wealth of experience from previous schemes.

We are working with a range of partners to ensure that wraparound support is in place for all displaced people who arrive here in Scotland. Those who come from Ukraine will have a right to work, and access to social security benefits and public funds. We will be working to make sure that people are aware of that and get access to all those services.

We are standing ready to welcome—I hope—significant numbers of people fleeing the situation in Ukraine. We are pleased that the supersponsor scheme that we proposed to the UK Government went live on Friday. We have multi-agency efforts in place to provide support. We now need to see visas begin to be granted In significant numbers so that we can get more people to Scotland and give them the support that they need.

On that issue, let me take the opportunity to welcome—on behalf of all of us, I am sure—the Dnipro Kids children, who arrived in Scotland last night. I know that they would all rather be at home in Ukraine but, while they are here, all of us would want to ensure that they are surrounded by love, care and support.

Child Protection (Local Authorities)

The Presiding Officer

I call Me

ghan Gallacher.

Is your card in, Ms Gallacher? Bear with us for a second. There you go.

Meghan Gallacher (Conservative, Central Scotland)

I refer members to my entry in the register of members’ interests, as I am a serving councillor on North Lanarkshire Council.

On 24 February, the First Minister gave a commitment to explore Christine Grahame’s suggestion that local authorities should not investigate their own complaints in cases relating to child protection. Does the First Minister agree that an independent national whistleblowing officer should be established for public bodies, and does she agree that those who cover up child protection issues should be reported to Police Scotland immediately?

The First Minister

As the member rightly says, I gave a commitment to Christine Grahame a few weeks ago. I hope that she accepts that consideration of those issues is still under way. I will make sure that, as part of that consideration, the proposals that she has made today are properly considered.

Domestic Abuse (Reoffending)

Pam Gosal (Conservative, West Scotland)

3. To ask the First Minister what the Scottish Government is doing to ensure that perpetrators of domestic abuse do not go on to reoffend. (S6F-00948)

Nicola Sturgeon (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Southside)

Domestic abuse is an insidious and dreadful crime. It has a devastating impact on victims, and it is vital that perpetrators are fully held to account. In partnership with key stakeholders, we are implementing equally safe, which is Scotland’s strategy to tackle all forms of violence against women and girls. It aims to prevent violence from occurring in the first place, to build the capability and capacity of mainstream and specialist services to support survivors and those at risk, and to strengthen the justice response to victims and perpetrators.

As a tangible example of that, we have committed to expanding the availability of the accredited Caledonian system, to ensure that more male perpetrators of domestic abuse are directed to services that challenge harmful behaviours, to reduce reoffending and to improve the lives of women and children.

Pam Gosal (Conservative, West Scotland)

As a very young child, I watched victims of domestic abuse come to my mum’s shop on Argyle Street for help. Not enough has changed. Half of the 65,000 domestic violence incidents reported in 2020-21 were committed by reoffenders. It is clear that whatever the Government is doing is not working. We need to work together to provide a true deterrent for this horrible abuse. Will the First Minister’s Government commit to doing more on the issue and back my proposal to create a domestic abuse register?

The First Minister

These are serious issues, and I want to ensure that we take them very seriously. On the specific issue of an offender register, we keep the law under continual review. We are always keen and willing to explore any options to reduce crime and reoffending, so we would be very keen to understand the detail of that proposal and give it due consideration. All registered sex offenders are already placed on the sex offender register and, as such, must register with the police as part of those requirements. However, I appreciate that that does not include all perpetrators of domestic violence. The issues need careful consideration, and I certainly undertake to give them that.

On the broader issues, it is definitely the case—and it should be welcomed—that more people feel able to come forward when they are victims of domestic abuse or sexual violence. That is to be encouraged. However, sentences for perpetrators are obviously a matter for the courts, and it is important that we all recognise that. A range of work is under way to ensure that there is better support for victims and that those who commit these dreadful crimes face up to the consequences of their actions. The Caledonian system that I referred to is an important part of that. We are also investing more in the support services that victims need and get so much benefit from. A range of work is under way, but the Government will remain open minded to any further proposals that are put forward on the issue.

Refugees (Ukraine)

Fulton MacGregor (Scottish National Party, Coatbridge and Chryston)

4. To ask the First Minister what work is being done to extend the “warm Scots welcome” to Ukrainians arriving in the United Kingdom. (S6F-00947)

Nicola Sturgeon (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Southside)

We all continue to be horrified by the illegal war in Ukraine, and we are ready to extend the warmest of Scottish welcomes to those who are fleeing the war. We have been working rapidly with a range of partners to ensure that displaced Ukrainians arrive to a place of safety and security. We have established welcome hubs at key entry points, to support people with what they need immediately on arrival and to assess their medium to longer-term needs.

We are working with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities to provide accommodation, as well as exploring all viable public and private sector housing options and, of course, offers from members of the public who have generously offered to open their own homes.

Fulton MacGregor (Scottish National Party, Coatbridge and Chryston)

I thank the First Minister for the Scottish Government’s on-going work in the area. I also congratulate my good friend and colleague Neil Gray on his recent appointment as the minister for Ukrainian refugees. It is a fitting appointment. Our two constituencies, which make up

the wider Monklands area, have a rich shared history, and we have both been deeply touched in recent weeks by the magnitude of the response of people in Coatbridge and Chryston and Airdrie and Shotts to the crisis and their tremendous willingness to support those who are seeking refuge. How will the Scottish Government ensure that the welcome hubs that she mentioned support displaced people from Ukraine to find peace and safety in Scotland after the stress and trauma of escaping from an illegal war?

The First Minister

The welcome hubs are a really important initial part of what we want to offer. They will assess immediate needs, take a multi-agency approach and provide wraparound support. That will include having trained staff on call to support people who are experiencing trauma.

The welcome hubs will also be able to begin the assessment of longer-term needs, including accommodation requirements.

We now have the supersponsor route in place. That is in addition to the homes for Ukraine route and, of course, the family route. We have the support ready to be provided here. The bit in the middle is getting the visa applications granted so that people can start to arrive in numbers.

I will get an update later today, but the update that I had yesterday was that more than 1,000 applications had been made through the supersponsor scheme, and there had been just under 1,000 individual matching applications, I think. Obviously, we are still improving data flows, so there will be some uncertainty around those figures. However, we need to see a significant speeding up of the granting of those applications in order that people can come here and start to access the support that we have ready for them on that multi-agency basis.

National Health Service (Dentistry)

Foysol Choudhury (Labour, Lothian)

5. To ask the First Minister what action the Scottish Government is taking to ensure that people are able to register with national health service dental practices and receive NHS dental treatments in the wake of the Covid-19 pandemic. (S6F-00929)

Nicola Sturgeon (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Southside)

It is a priority to ensure that patients are able to access NHS dental care. We have committed to abolishing dental charges in the lifetime of this Parliament, and that will help to remove at least one of the barriers to accessing high-quality NHS dental services.

To support patient care and access, we recently announced revised payment arrangements for dentists from 1 April that will more closely link payments to the number of patients seen and treatments provided. That multiplier funding arrangement will see additional investment in dentistry increase by almost £17 million in the first quarter of the new financial year. That comes on top of the 9 per cent planned increase in the budget for NHS dental services in the coming financial year and the support that has been given during the pandemic of £50 million in financial support for the sector and a further £35 million for personal protective equipment.

Foysol Choudhury (Labour, Lothian)

Many constituents have told me that, due to the total lack of NHS provision in their areas, they have been left with untreated dental pain and conditions and that they often miss check-ups that could spot life-threatening conditions such as oral cancer. Does the First Minister realise that she is increasingly overseeing not even a two-tier system, because, for many people in Scotland, dentistry is effectively privatised already?

The First Minister

No. We continue to support NHS dentistry. In fact, we are investing around 40 per cent more, proportionately, than is being invested south of the border, as we have around 40 per cent more dentists per 100,000 of the population than there are elsewhere in the United Kingdom.

There are significant challenges because of the pandemic. That is why we have financially supported dentists during the pandemic, and it is why we are taking action now to further support dentists.

The multiplier funding arrangement that I referred to in my earlier answer is extremely important, and it has been welcomed by many dentists. I think that the British Dental Association has also welcomed its introduction. That arrangement recognises the importance of linking payments to the number of patients and the treatments that are being provided.

We will continue to support NHS dentistry and ensure that people have access to it. As I said, removing dental charges will also take away one of the barriers that, traditionally, some people have experienced.

Stephen Kerr (Conservative, Central Scotland)

I had my own experience with dental problems last week. I do not directly blame the First Minister for that.

Douglas Thain from the Scottish Dental Association said that decades of underfunding by the Scottish Government has created a toxic environment as dentists battle rising costs and inadequate fees paid by health boards. Does the First Minister not see that her current approach endangers dental provision for the people who need it most?

The First Minister

I said earlier that the buck stops with me, but I am afraid that that does not include Stephen Kerr’s teeth problems. I just hope that the glue is working better today. I will move on, because the issues are too important for such levity.

The issues are important, and there are more dentists here. If I look at where Stephen Kerr’s party is in government, I see that the number of dentists per 100,000 of the population is 39.9. In Scotland, it is 55.6, which is 40 per cent higher. For this financial year, our Government’s investment in core community dental services is 40 per cent higher.

That does not remove all the difficulties, but it shows the foundation that we have in place in Scotland, which is why the additional investment that I am speaking about is so important. It recognises the additional problems that are caused by the pandemic. We will continue to focus on supporting NHS dentists in order that people across the country can have the access to them that they have every right to expect.

Spring Statement 2022

Ariane Burgess (Green, Highlands and Islands)

6. To ask the First Minister what the Scottish Government’s response is to the spring statement. (S6F-00950)

Nicola Sturgeon (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Southside)

Yesterday’s spring statement was a missed opportunity on the part of the Chancellor of the Exchequer to give families and businesses the support that they need now in the face of rising costs. It showed a callous disregard for the poorest in our society. Despite the largest annual fall in living standards since the 1950s, as confirmed by the Office for Budget Responsibility, the chancellor’s decisions will mainly assist the better-off and will provide no real help to those on low incomes, with ever more households left facing poverty. In contrast, within our very limited powers and resources in this regard, the Scottish Government is taking a range of targeted steps, including, of course, doubling the Scottish child payment, uprating our devolved social security benefits by 6 per cent and extending our fuel insecurity fund.

Ariane Burgess (Green, Highlands and Islands)

Brexit and the volatile cost of oil and gas are playing a massive role in the cost of living crisis, but there was no recognition of that Tory legacy in the chancellor’s statement. What is worse is that there was nothing in his statement to help those who are struggling the most with rising costs. With the Office for Budget Responsibility warning about the biggest annual fall in living standards since records began, what can the Scottish Government do to build on what we have already delivered to tackle the cost of living, such as free bus travel for young people, free school meals for primary school children and, as the First Minister has just said, doubling the Scottish child payment?

The First Minister

It is absolutely right to point out the impact of the chancellor’s statement yesterday on the poorest in our society. This morning, the Joseph Rowntree Foundation published analysis that I recommend every member of the Parliament look at carefully. Those in the richest decile will see their incomes fall by less than 2 per cent, while those in the poorest decile will see their incomes fall by almost 6 per cent. That is principally down to the failure to properly uprate benefits. Given the fact that the chancellor had access to more money, the decision not to do that is disgusting and completely indefensible.

I have already set out the actions that the Scottish Government is taking, and we will continue to look at further actions that we can take. Indeed, as I said earlier, in the statement on the tackling child poverty delivery plan that she will deliver later, Shona Robison will set out further actions that the Scottish Government will take.

Christine Grahame (Scottish National Party, Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale)

Given the woefully inadequate spring statement from the Chancellor of the Exchequer in the face of a fierce cost of living hike, does the First Minister agree that for people on fixed incomes such as pensioners, many of whom became housebound in these Covid years, heating costs will be devastating, with the United Kingdom state pension being the worst in Europe? Does she also agree that Anas Sarwar, for example, must wake up to the position that, without power over pensions and other benefits, mitigation has its limitations?

The First Minister

Christine Grahame is absolutely 100 per cent right: we cannot use powers that we do not hold in this Parliament. Where we do hold powers, we are using them, so we are taking game-changing action to lift children out of poverty.

We do not have control over pensions. We tend to talk about the invidious choices that, in these circumstances, people face between eating or heating their homes. In the face of this cost of living crisis, there will be some people who cannot afford to do either. That is the reality.

This Government will do everything that we can with the powers and resources that we have, but as long as so many of those levers lie with a Conservative Government at Westminster, we are going to see more of what we saw in the spring statement yesterday. Anybody who really cares about these issues would be not just arguing for those powers to be taken away from Rishi Sunak and Boris Johnson and put into the hands of this Parliament as quickly as possible, but demanding that it happen.

Wealth Tax

Mercedes Villalba (Labour, North East Scotland)

Millions of workers are facing a cost of living crisis that they did not create. The People’s Assembly has been organising mass demonstrations up and down the country to make it clear that workers cannot pay—and will not pay—for the crisis. Campaigners are calling for the introduction of a wealth tax on the richest 1 per cent, which would raise £14 billion a year for tackling the cost of living crisis and investing in public services. Does the First Minister back that call?

The First Minister

Yes, I think that we should see those who can afford it contribute the most. However, a wealth tax, like a windfall tax, is not something that this Government has the power to put in place. If Labour wants these things to happen in Scotland, it cannot just talk about the ends that it wants to see—it has to actually equip this Parliament and this Government with the means to do something about it. That is what is called making this Parliament independent.

The Presiding Officer

I will take a general supplementary from Liam McArthur.

Islands Connectivity Plan (Internal Ferry Services)

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

The Scottish Government has informed Orkney Islands Council that the islands connectivity plan will exclude lifeline internal ferry services in both Orkney and Shetland. Can the First Minister explain why her national islands plan does not appear to include the needs of all Scotland’s islands?

The First Minister

W

e have been discussing with the island authorities for some time the interisland ferry services, and we will continue to do that. I will ask the Minister for Transport to engage with Liam McArthur in more detail on what further steps we are able to take.

The Presiding Officer

Thank you. That concludes First Minister’s questions.

World Tuberculosis Day 2022

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

The next item of business is a members’ business debate on motion S6M-02874, in the name of Miles Briggs, on world tuberculosis day 2022. The debate will be concluded without any question being put. I invite members who wish to participate to press their request-to-speak buttons or place an R in the chat box as soon as possible.

Motion debated,

That the Parliament notes that 24 March 2022 marks World Tuberculosis Day; understands that tuberculosis (TB) remains one of the world’s deadliest infectious diseases, killing 1.5 million people each year; believes that the COVID-19 pandemic has reversed decades of positive progress in tackling TB; understands that there has been uneven progress in the delivery of the commitments made at the UN High-Level Meeting on TB, including efforts to diagnose and treat 40 million people with TB by 2022 and to dramatically increase investments in research; considers that TB is a disease of poverty, with the most vulnerable and marginalised at greatest risk of both TB and drug-resistant TB, including in Scotland; believes that strong international health systems are vital for securing the UK’s domestic health security; recognises what it sees as the importance of the upcoming seventh replenishment of the Global Fund to fight AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria in tackling global TB, and notes what it sees as the vital work carried out by clinical staff, scientists and civil society organisations across Scotland and globally to deliver on the Sustainable Development Goal of ending TB by 2030.

Miles Briggs (Conservative, Lothian)

I am grateful to be able to bring the debate to the chamber today, and I thank members from across the Parliament for all their support on what is not only an important public health issue globally but, increasingly, a potential threat to domestic health security.

I pay tribute to the Edinburgh group of Results UK, which campaigns on international development issues, including tuberculosis. I have been working with the group since my election to Parliament in 2016, and I am pleased to welcome some of its members to the public gallery today. I have also sponsored a stand just outside the chamber, and I know that a number of members have already spoken to and engaged with the group. If they have not done so already, there may be a chance after the debate for them to speak to the group and find out more information.

I also take the opportunity to note the contribution made by two leading professionals in Scotland. Dr Helen Stagg of the centre for population health sciences at the University of Edinburgh was, until recently, chair of the UKAPTB. For those who do not know what that is, it stands for UK Academics and Professionals to End TB. Susan Duthie, who is the lead TB specialist nurse at NHS Grampian, also led on drawing up recommendations on the management of Afghan national TB screening in Scotland.

I also put on record our thanks for all the vital work that is carried out by clinical staff, scientists and civil society organisations, in Scotland and globally, to deliver on the sustainable development goal, which we all signed up to, of ending TB by 2030.

Tuberculosis is an incredibly infectious disease that is spread through coughing. It has killed more people than any other single infectious agent in history, including SARS-CoV-2. TB is curable, but people need support to get through the many months of treatment that are required.

As noted in the motion, around 1.5 million people die from TB every year and many millions more are diagnosed with the disease. That is a shocking statistic and something that we all need to reflect on. Presiding Officer, if you were a teenager before 2005—I am not sure whether you were—you may bear a small, circular scar on your bicep. That is by-product of immunisation against TB and a reminder of the prevalence of the disease in this country at one time.

However, the Covid-19 pandemic and its widespread effects on diagnosis and treatment have brought the disease of TB back to the forefront of the policy debate, especially in the context of public health in developing countries. Because of the similarities between TB and Covid, much of the precautionary equipment and many of the treatment centres and services that are usually the first line of defence for the former were refocused on the latter. The World Health Organization has suggested that the pandemic has set back efforts to end TB globally by more than a decade.

Researchers at the University of Dundee, who received a £3.8 million grant from the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation to develop treatments, have warned that the impact of the pandemic could lead to a rise in tuberculosis infections around the world, as some patients will have gone undiagnosed amid the pandemic. Indeed, as with many services across our health landscape, we believe that diagnoses of TB dropped by around 20 per cent in 2020, as access to treatment became increasingly difficult.

Some projections suggest that progress against TB has also been significantly set back. Dr Laura Cleghorn of the University of Dundee said that there is a “pressing need” to develop new treatments for the illness, which some people wrongly think of as a “disease of yesteryear” . I agree. As I said earlier, it is a concern that, across the world, diagnoses of TB dropped by a similar level, with 16 countries accounting for 93 per cent of that drop. That suggests that countries that already have a higher burden of disease have fared far worse.

Of course, other issues have led to that protracted problem. For example, fewer people have been tested for TB and the number attending for tests has reduced. That might be due to people’s fear of contracting Covid-19 in hospital or because people with Covid-19 were not able to go to hospital. As we emerge from the pandemic, we urgently need to tackle that problem. Otherwise, we risk stepping backwards in the fight against deaths from TB.

That will, of course, require a sincere, co-ordinated and multilateral effort, but if the pandemic has demonstrated anything it is that immense benefit can sometimes be gained from proper and targeted investment in global public health. In recent years, concerted action has been taken to tackle TB and we need to see that work being recovered.

In 2018, for example, we saw the first high-level global meeting on TB. It produced a declaration of political will that can shape our approach going forward. Notably, it identified work to close the research and development funding gap. To date, that has been estimated to be more than $1.1 billion. I welcome the £20 million of UK Government research and development funding. A good portion of that has already been targeted towards such global health innovations.

There are still many concerns around research and development, and I hope that we can address those globally.

The first and most obvious concern is about treatment methods. Innovation will allow us to simplify treatment regimes, allowing them to be more easily deployed in all corners of the world, in contrast to what are currently lengthy and complex treatments for many patients that can often take more than three months.

Similarly, we need to see progress on diagnosis of TB. We need to be able to do it in a speedy, efficient and simple way. To circle back to my earlier points, Covid-19 has acted as a catalyst to the diagnosis question, and I hope that we will see investment around early diagnosis of TB, as we have seen around Covid.

Finally, and perhaps most importantly, we need to fund the research that will look at drug resistance. We are all acutely aware of a really worrying trend—a rise in drug-resistant or multidrug-resistant TB. More than 160,000 cases were recorded people last year alone, which is deeply concerning for global public health.

We know that Scotland is also behind in funding for latent TB screening in communities at risk and vulnerable to TB. I hope that the minister who closes the debate can outline the public health initiatives that are being developed to address those concerns around latent TB screening.

To conclude, I am incredibly grateful to members for allowing me to introduce the debate today, and for the opportunity to discuss these issues of public health policy around the world and of domestic health security.

Above all, I hope that today can present an opportunity for Parliament to re-affirm our collective mission and that of clinical staff, scientists and civil society organisations in Scotland and globally to meet the sustainable development goal of ending TB by 2030.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

Thank you, Mr Briggs. We now move to the open debate.

Emma Harper (Scottish National Party, South Scotland)

I welcome the opportunity to speak in the debate, and congratulate Miles Briggs on securing it. I apologise for not being in the chamber today.

Miles Briggs has laid out very well the importance of world tuberculosis day 2022, which this year marks the theme “Invest to End TB. Save Lives”. Raising awareness is one of the asks in the briefing from Results UK. I met its staff in Parliament on Tuesday at their stand, which Miles Briggs sponsors. It is important to raise public awareness about the devastating health, social and economic consequences of TB and to highlight the efforts that are being made to end the global epidemic.

When preparing for the debate, I reflected on Scotland’s journey to tackle TB. In 1948, TB was killing one person every two hours in Scotland. Back then, Scotland was virtually the only country in Europe where new cases of TB were continuing to rise unchecked. Although forever the disease of poverty and crowded slums, wealth provided no barrier. Young men and women were particularly at risk and TB meningitis was certain death for babies and toddlers. TB patients could spend a year or more recovering and resting in a sanatorium, including at Lochmaben sanatorium near Dumfries.

One of my first tutors in nursing college—Mr David Shankland—was the first male nurse in Dumfries and Galloway, at Lochmaben hospital. Davie taught me and my colleagues so much about his time at Lochmaben, helping support people who were recovering from TB. It was a dreadful time back then, which the appalling stigma that was attached to TB made worse.

Streptomycin—the first treatment and first real cure—came along, developed by William Feldman, a Glasgow-born vet who helped refine it into a medical form at the Mayo clinic in Minnesota.

I want to pay tribute, too, to Sir John Crofton for developing the first combined antibiotic multidose regimen that still forms the basis of TB treatments today, and to the University of St Andrews, the University of Edinburgh and Queen Margaret University, which continue Sir John’s legacy today, working across continents and disciplines.

The drugs were game changing and, since then, largely down to our fantastic NHS and vaccination efforts, the situation here has improved.

However, Scotland’s example has not been replicated around the world. According to the World Health Organization’s “Global tuberculosis report”, 60 per cent of global TB cases come from just six countries, where health inequalities are more prevalent. Those countries are China, India, Indonesia, Nigeria, Pakistan and South Africa.

Although treatments are available across those nations, the problem is largely that, even though doctors routinely advise patients with TB about the importance of following prescribed regimens, many people do not complete their treatment plan. When patients stop taking TB medication, they risk developing multidrug-resistant TB, which is even more difficult and costly to treat. In 2016, the median cost of treating a single patient with multidrug-resistant TB in a developing country was $9,529, and treatment could last up to two years. New multidrug regimens of nine to 12 months exist, but they can cost up to $1,000 per person, and maintaining patient compliance for such a long period presents additional challenges. It is not that patients do not care about their health but that they are burdened by economic constraints.

TB may be caused by a stubborn bacterium, which primarily affects the lungs. It is similar to our SARS-CoV-2 virus in its high transmissibility, but it is poverty that sustains it. Treatment often means travelling long distances to clinics and giving up a day’s wage. Donor agencies and international health organisations often ignore the context for why people act the way they do.

We must work on ways in which to support and invest in treatment. I am interested in exploring the possibility of conditional cash transfers, which have been used in recent years in medical interventions around the globe. They are forms of social assistance programmes that aim to reduce poverty. Apart from providing extra income, conditional cash transfers allow patients to invest in their health through providing the means to access basic health services or to send their children to school, which helps to break intergenerational poverty cycles. I am interested in hearing the Scottish Government’s position on CCTs and whether any of our international relief funds support them.

As this year’s theme is “Invest to End TB. Save Lives”, perhaps CCTs are a way to invest to do just that.

Richard Leonard (Labour, Central Scotland)

I thank Miles Briggs for lodging his motion and the words that it contains. If there were to be a vote on it, I would vote for it.

Today is world tuberculosis day, and this week started with world poetry day. In the opening lines of “On the page”, by the late Tom Leonard, he said:

“The local is the international,

The national is the parochial”.

This national Parliament is nothing if it does not look beyond the parochial, if it does not see its place in the world and if we do not understand that we are world citizens with global horizons, neither limited by passports nor narrowed by where we happen to have been born. This debate is about our common humanity.

Tuberculosis is an old disease. Many of us have family experience of the toll that it takes. Growing up in Leeds, my grandfather lost two older brothers and a sister, Florence, and then, one by one, both his parents to this deadly disease of poverty. Tuberculosis is the reason why John Wheatley, as a Glasgow Labour councillor, strove for not just slum clearance but good-quality council houses that were, in his words, “homes not hutches”. Yet, in 2020, more than 100 years later, 1.5 million people died of this preventable, curable disease.

I am bound to say that, if we invested as much in the machinery of peace as we do in the machinery of war, and if we invested as much in saving lives as we do in endangering them, the world would be a far better place. In 2020, the year when the number of TB deaths went up again, world military expenditure in that one year was $1.781 trillion. By comparison, just $5.3 billion dollars were invested in universal access to TB prevention, diagnosis, treatment and care across the globe. That is a ratio of 370 to 1. Healthcare is a human right.

Stephen Kerr (Conservative, Central Scotland)

I am grateful to Richard Leonard for giving way, as he is giving a particularly passionate speech, which I agree with. Will he join me in paying tribute to the Global Fund and the work that it does across the world, especially in Africa? I have seen at first hand the work that has been done because of the Global Fund.

Will he also acknowledge the important funders of the Global Fund, such as the United States, France and the United Kingdom?

Richard Leonard (Labour, Central Scotland)

We need to be internationalist in outlook and, as I said in my opening remarks, we need to understand that we are citizens of the world and have a global responsibility in this respect.

Healthcare is a human right, but to be poor in this world is to be too often denied that human right. That is why the director general of the World Health Organization, Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, recently said:

“The struggle to #EndTB is not just a struggle against a single disease. It’s also the struggle to end poverty, inequity, unsafe housing, discrimination and stigma, and to extend social protection and universal health coverage.”

The unnecessary deaths of 1.5 million people a year do not just tell us where poverty lies; they tell us where power lies: between the global north and the global south; between rich and poor; and between the profits of corporations and the lives of people.

The WHO has accused big pharmaceutical giants of, in its words, “exiting the field” of investment in new antibiotics to deal with drug resistance, which is a major cause of TB death. As far back as 2014, AstraZeneca withdrew all early-stage research and development for TB, malaria and neglected tropical diseases. The biggest pharmaceutical corporation in the world, Johnson & Johnson, deliberately charged developing countries eight times the cost price of manufacture for the newer TB drug bedaquiline, before a campaign by Médecins Sans Frontières pressured the company to cut the price, but that was its first instinct. For big pharma, it is not about the drugs with the greatest clinical or humanitarian value; it is always about the drugs with the greatest monetary and shareholder value.

Tuberculosis is a disease of poverty, of inequality and of global power and global priorities, so our job is to build a world where people have clean water and safe shelter, where no one lives in fear of starvation, and where no one dies from a disease for which a vaccine has existed for almost a century. That is the future that we need to build: a better, just, more humane world—a future of hope, a future of peace and, I hope, a future of socialism.

Maree Todd (Scottish National Party, Caithness, Sutherland and Ross)

On behalf of the Scottish Government, I thank Miles Briggs for bringing the motion to the chamber on world tuberculosis day.

My heart goes out to all those across the world who have been affected by this terrible disease. Too many lives have been lost to TB here in Scotland and around the globe, and we cannot let that continue. TB is a disease that, in the majority of cases, is treatable and curable. We must keep making progress towards the end of this epidemic.

With that in mind, I acknowledge the work that is being done across the world to support the WHO’s end TB strategy and the United Nations sustainable development goals. I also highlight the fantastic work being done by the Global Fund, a partnership endorsed by the G8 that was developed to accelerate the end of TB, AIDS and malaria as epidemics. In 2020 alone, the Global Fund facilitated the treatment of 4.7 million people with TB. Since its inception in 2002, there has been a 28 per cent reduction in the number of TB deaths, excluding HIV-positive cases, in the countries in which the Global Fund operates. Although it is undoubtedly the case that there is still more to be done, we should all be incredibly proud of the strides that have been taken to reduce the impact of TB across the world.

Closer to home, I want to touch on the work that is being done here in Scotland. As a Government, we take tuberculosis very seriously: we are fully committed to eradicating the disease in Scotland. For more than 20 years, we have monitored the disease through the enhanced surveillance of mycobacterial infections scheme, which ensures that we have access to up-to-date data on case numbers, treatment, outcomes and drug resistance patterns.

In 2011, the Scottish Government published “A TB Action Plan for Scotland”, which set out key recommendations on TB care and control. In the years since the publication of that plan, there has been a sustained reduction in the number of TB cases across Scotland. Case levels remain well within the target of less than 10 cases per 100,000 people that is set in the World Health Organization’s end TB strategy.

However, as a Government, we know that we cannot become complacent. We must acknowledge that, as the numbers fall, TB cases in Scotland are becoming more complex. The patients we are seeing are often from underserved population groups. They might not have been born in the UK or they might be infected with a drug-resistant strain of the infection. To address the complexity of the TB landscape, the Scottish health protection network established a TB multidisciplinary network, which brings together experts from across the country.

In 2017, the network published “TB Framework for Scotland”, which was built on the foundations of the TB action plan. It set out an approach of supporting progress towards key TB outcomes, including a reduction in the health inequalities gap that affects those who are diagnosed with TB.

The Covid-19 pandemic put the brakes on much of the good work on TB in Scotland, as vital resources were redirected. I am happy to report that meetings of the implementation group have now recommenced, and I am confident that good progress will be made towards the outcomes that have been identified.

In addition, a reference service for whole-genome sequencing of TB is now live in Scotland. That service will allow the NHS to much more rapidly predict resistance to anti-TB drugs and to assess strains to allow better investigation into clusters of the disease.

To respond to Miles Briggs’s specific point, we acknowledge the issues around latent TB screening. We are actively working with multiple partners to understand what more can be done in that area. I am waiting for a paper on exactly that issue—I expect it to be with me quite soon.

Although there is more work to be done here in Scotland, I am proud of what we have achieved so far. However, as is the case in every health debate, we must acknowledge the effect that the Covid-19 pandemic has had on the fight against TB, not just here but further afield. Across the globe, every area of healthcare has been impacted by the pandemic, and TB is no exception. There has been a reduction in testing; essential resources such as labs and healthcare workers have been diverted to fight Covid-19; and there have been significant declines in the number of TB cases that have been successfully treated.

Despite that, there is hope. Emergency funding from the Global Fund is helping countries to fight TB alongside Covid-19. Investment in health workers and in tools and systems to combat airborne diseases is increasing.

The challenge is huge. We must remember that we are emerging from a pandemic that has taken a massive toll on our communities, our people and our health services, but I know that, if we harness the collective purpose that has been so evident in the past two years, we can succeed. As the situation surrounding Covid-19 continues to improve, much-needed resources will be rerouted back into the fight against TB.

Of course, I recognise that meeting the 2030 target will require concentrated and focused effort, and that we must act quickly to make up for lost time. Although progress has been made, I know that our work is far from done. That is why the Government remains committed to supporting the sustainable development goal of ending TB by 2030. We will continue to work with Public Health Scotland and other colleagues to drive that work forward.

I extend my sincere thanks to all those who have worked so tirelessly to reduce the impact of TB on lives across the world. This debate has been an excellent opportunity to highlight the fantastic work that is being done to reduce the impact of TB. It has also allowed us to take stock and to consider how we can move forward.

The Covid-19 pandemic has left its mark, as it has on so much of our lives. We will harness the learning and the togetherness that have been so evident in the past two years as we move forward. I commit to continuing to strive for a future in which TB is eliminated here in Scotland and across the world.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

That concludes the debate.

13:15 Meeting suspended.

14:00 On resuming—

Point of Order

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

Good afternoon, colleagues. I remind you that Covid-related measures are in place and that face masks should be worn while you move around the chamber and the wider Holyrood campus.

Stephen Kerr (Conservative, Central Scotland)

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I seek your guidance with regard to a question that was raised with the First Minister by Christine Grahame. In that question, the member said that the United Kingdom had “the worst” state pension in Europe.

I think that it is important to set the record straight, because facts matter in this chamber. The fact is that the United Kingdom has a higher pension as a proportion of income maintained after retirement than Sweden, Norway, Latvia, Germany, Switzerland, Ireland, Estonia and Lithuania. Perhaps, Presiding Officer, you can advise me on how I might correct the record and on what training is available for members to avail themselves of that data on the website of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development and ensure that such mistakes are not made again.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

Thank you, Mr Kerr. As members will be aware, there is a mechanism that can be used to correct any contributions that are made in the chamber. Guidance on those mechanisms can be provided, but I think that Mr Kerr has made his point.

Rural Affairs and Islands

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

We move on to portfolio questions, and the portfolio this afternoon is rural affairs and islands. Anybody who wishes to ask a supplementary should press the request-to-speak button or place an R in the chat function during the relevant question.

Question 1 has been withdrawn.

Regional Food Groups (Support)

Siobhian Brown (Scottish National Party, Ayr)

2. To ask the Scottish Government what support it provides to regional food groups. (S6O-00911)

Mairi Gougeon (Scottish National Party, Angus North and Mearns)

We support those groups through a £250,000 annual fund that is delivered by Scotland Food & Drink and which allows groups across the country to resource co-ordinator posts within each group. The fund, which leverages match funding from partners, including local authorities, allows for the establishment of an active network of regional ambassadors who work in conjunction with local authorities to promote regional food and drink and tourism strategies. That support has ensured that we have 19 regional food groups operating collaboratively within their regions and collectively in partnership across Scotland.

Siobhian Brown (Scottish National Party, Ayr)

As the cabinet secretary is aware, the Ayrshire food an a’ that group in my constituency aims to identify and provide new opportunities for food and drink in Ayrshire, including in areas of activity such as local procurement, education, and skills and training.

Does the cabinet secretary share my view that such organisations are vital to continuing the good work that Scotland has accomplished in our cultural approach to food as we strive towards our ambition of being a good food nation?

Mairi Gougeon (Scottish National Party, Angus North and Mearns)

I absolutely do. It is really clear to me that the regional food groups have an absolutely pivotal role to play in telling Scotland’s fantastic food and drink story. They will also be fundamental to the delivery of the next phase of the ambition 2030 strategy at local and national level.

The work of the Ayrshire food and a’ that group that the member has outlined is exactly the kind of approach that we want to see and encourage. The work that it is undertaking on all the areas that the member talked about, such as education and procurement, will help us build the good food nation and become the good food nation that we want to be. I also envisage the regional food groups playing a key role as we look to develop the national and local good food nation plans set out in the Good Food Nation (Scotland) Bill. They will also be vital partners in developing our local food strategy, which has been based on our recent consultation.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

We have a brief supplementary from Rhoda Grant, who joins us remotely.

Rhoda Grant (Labour, Highlands and Islands)

Being a good food nation means that people should have adequate access to food, too. This week, I heard of a really sad case of an elderly person who ended up in hospital due to starvation, not because they did not have food, but because they did not have the electricity to cook it.

What support has the cabinet secretary given to groups that are trying to help people in that situation access both food and the means to cook it?

Mairi Gougeon (Scottish National Party, Angus North and Mearns)

The member raises a really important question, and some of that was teased out earlier this week in the stage 1 debate on the Good Food Nation (Scotland) Bill. We will also be enshrining people’s right to adequate food in Scots law as part of a human rights bill, but we are also trying to give effect to that right through the work that we are undertaking at the moment and through the Good Food Nation (Scotland) Bill, which provides the legal framework and underpinning in that respect.

However, we are always looking at ways of supporting people. I completely understand the issues that the member has raised, but, unfortunately, we are going to see such situations increasingly often, given the number of people who are—and will continue to be—in fuel poverty. That situation is set only to get worse. Where it is within our capabilities to do so, the Scottish Government is trying to do all that we can to address those issues.

Farm Improvements

Alexander Burnett (Conservative, Aberdeenshire West)

3. I refer members to my entry in the register of members’ interests with regard to agriculture.

To ask the Scottish Government what it is doing to help farmers make improvements to their farms. (S6O-00912)

Mairi Gougeon (Scottish National Party, Angus North and Mearns)

The Scottish Government supports farmers and crofters to make improvements through a range of measures, including the sustainable agricultural capital grant scheme and access to specialist advice and information through our farm advisory service.

I am also announcing today that we will run a further round of the knowledge transfer and innovation fund in 2022-23, with £1.6 million available to support projects that enable more sustainable and low-carbon farming and crofting. KTIF has a significant track record of supporting projects that enable farmers, crofters and land managers to create improved opportunities for nature, adapt to climate change and benefit from new organic farming materials. That fund has helped us provide funding to some really exciting projects over the past few years, and I hope that people will apply for a share of this year’s fund so that they can play their part in tackling climate change.

Alexander Burnett (Conservative, Aberdeenshire West)

There are reports that Lorna Slater is not prepared to convert wild land into farms. Rewilding is important, but this Government must be ready to adapt in the face of rising food prices and shortages. Does the cabinet secretary think that a dogmatic, inflexible approach from the Greens could hold back support for our farmers in response to the crisis in Ukraine?

Mairi Gougeon (Scottish National Party, Angus North and Mearns)

I know that Alexander Burnett’s colleague is going to ask me a question on that topic later on but, in relation to some of the requests that have been made in that regard, I reiterate the Scottish Government’s commitment to supporting our farmers, crofters and food producers. That has been a core part of the vision that we outlined and published earlier this month, and we are committed to continuing that work. The horrendous war and acts that we are watching unfold in Ukraine highlight the vital importance of our food security. We recently established a task force to help us address some of those issues and the immediate matters that we face, and we will also look at what we can do to tackle those issues over the medium and longer term.

Jim Fairlie (Scottish National Party, Perthshire South and Kinross-shire)

Does the cabinet secretary share my dismay at the Tories’ failure to deliver on their Brexit promise to at least maintain current rural funding? Instead, they are now short-changing Scotland in this parliamentary session to the tune of £93 million, which could have been provided to farmers to help them mitigate, address and adapt to climate change.

Mairi Gougeon (Scottish National Party, Angus North and Mearns)

Yes, I absolutely share the member’s dismay in that regard. The Scottish Government has been clear and consistent that we expect—because we were promised—full replacement of European Union funds to ensure no detriment to Scotland’s finances. We would have expected the United Kingdom Government to fully respect the devolution settlement in any future arrangement but so far, that has not happened. My colleagues in the Administrations in Wales and Northern Ireland share our frustration in that regard.

There was also a Bew review commitment to holding meaningful discussions to agree the principles of future intra-UK allocations. Those discussions should have occurred before the UK spending review, but we are still waiting on the UK Government and George Eustice to meet that commitment.

Mercedes Villalba (Labour, North East Scotland)

In response to my colleague, Martin Whitfield, in September, the cabinet secretary said that

food should be

“processed as close as possible to the point of primary production”—[

Official Report

, 2 September 2021; c 46.]

She also committed the Scottish Government to working with any operators that are looking to take forward a mobile abattoir model. Now that six months have passed, can the cabinet secretary update the chamber on what steps she is taking to improve abattoir provision? Will the Scottish Government take forward the mobile abattoir model if no prospective operators come forward?

Mairi Gougeon (Scottish National Party, Angus North and Mearns)

My previous commitment still stands, and we still stand ready to work with anybody who is interested in taking forward the model. I stand by what the member quoted in the first part of her question, in that we are trying to ensure, as far as we can, that food is processed as locally as possible.

We have been considering all those issues in our draft local food strategy, which has been out for consultation. That consultation closed towards the end of last year; we are still analysing the responses to it and will be setting out our response in due course.

“SnareWatch Annual Report 2021”

Ruth Maguire (Scottish National Party, Cunninghame South)

4. To ask the Scottish Government what its response is to the “SnareWatch Annual Report 2021” from OneKind. (S6O-00913)

Màiri McAllan (Scottish National Party, Clydesdale)

I am aware of the report’s findings and I understand the concerns around the use of snares.

We recently concluded a review of snaring, as required by the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, which we will publish shortly. I have commissioned an additional review, which will look beyond the terms of the 1981 act to consider a potential ban on snaring. It will look at land management aspects of the matter, as well as animal welfare.

In the meantime, Scotland has the most robust laws on snaring in the United Kingdom. We

remain committed to the highest possible animal welfare standards.

Ruth Maguire (Scottish National Party, Cunninghame South)

I thank the minister for that very full answer. Ending cruelty against animals is tremendously important to me and my constituents. With that in mind, will the minister tell us more about the second review that she has commissioned?

Màiri McAllan (Scottish National Party, Clydesdale)

I am happy to do so. As I said, the initial review is complete, and I will be pleased to share the detail of it shortly. I have commissioned the further review and we will look beyond the terms of the 1981 act, including at considering a ban. I hope to announce the details of that shortly.

I know how strongly the member and the public feel about the matter. I am clear that we need control measures, but we cannot and must not tolerate suffering. I will look to include that in the terms of the review.

Crops (Gene Editing)

Russell Findlay (Conservative, West Scotland)

5. To ask the Scottish Government what recent discussions the rural affairs secretary has had with scientists regarding gene editing of crops. (S6O-00914)

Màiri McAllan (Scottish National Party, Clydesdale)

Scottish Government ministers and officials speak regularly with scientists on a range of issues, including gene editing, and we have access to a wealth of scientific expertise, including that of the chief scientific adviser for environment, natural resources and agriculture and the chief plant health officer, and research and evidence provided by centres of expertise such as the Plant Health Centre.

Russell Findlay (Conservative, West Scotland)

My colleague Rachael Hamilton recently met the Roslin institute, which once again reaffirmed its support for giving gene editing the green light in Scotland. Why is the Scottish Government continuing to fail to support Scotland’s top scientists on the issue?

Màiri McAllan (Scottish National Party, Clydesdale)

There are a range of views on the matter, which I am following closely. I greatly welcome scientific opinion on it. However, our policy on genetic modification has not changed. Russell Findlay and his Tory colleagues might be prepared to hurriedly change environmental standards post Brexit, but this Government is not. We will take a considered approach and I am closely following progress at European Union level in that regard.

Evelyn Tweed (Scottish National Party, Stirling)

Can the minister advise whether the Tory United Kingdom Government has shared or provided any cumulative impact assessment of the two trade deals that it has negotiated since Brexit, both of which will, by its own admission, see growth fall in UK and Scottish agriculture?

The Deputy Presiding Officer

Minister, that is not relevant to gene editing. Unless you advise me otherwise, I do not think that there is anything that you can add that would relate back to the original question.

Màiri McAllan (Scottish National Party, Clydesdale)

Perhaps I could add something in regard to advice received, Presiding Officer, but I will take your view on the matter and will not answer the question.

Stephen Kerr (Conservative, Central Scotland)

At the previous rural portfolio questions, the cabinet secretary was clearly confused between genetically modified organisms and gene editing. Now, it appears that the minister is equally confused. Will the minister please take the time to understand the difference between GMOs and gene editing? Scotland’s farmers can see potential benefits in gene editing. Why can the Scottish Government not?

Màiri McAllan (Scottish National Party, Clydesdale)

The member need not try to patronise, belittle or outsmart me, because he will not succeed.

I am following closely both scientific and judicial reasoning about the decoupling of GM and gene editing. The latter is a process that it is considered could also have occurred naturally, and not through the gene editing process. However, as I have said to the member’s colleague, our position has not changed, and I am following the EU in this regard.

Farming (Young People)

Elizabeth Smith (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

6. To ask the Scottish Government what measures it is putting in place to attract younger people into the farming sector. (S6O-00915)

Mairi Gougeon (Scottish National Party, Angus North and Mearns)

We recognise that getting young people into the sector is key to driving forward our rural economy, and we know that younger people face a number of obstacles to getting into the sector, which can be off-putting. That is why the Government is continuing to support young people by developing skills and talent through our skills action plan for rural Scotland, and through the skills for farming group, to guide employers on apprenticeships and work placements.

Additional support will continue to be provided by our farming opportunities for new entrants group, the Scottish Land Matching Service and the Farm Advisory Service.

Elizabeth Smith (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

I am grateful to the cabinet secretary for her acknowledgement that there is a problem, because I have recently been contacted by several younger constituents across Mid Scotland and Fife who are struggling to get into the farming sector. That issue has been highlighted at some local NFU Scotland meetings. Recent Scottish Government statistics show that, since 2016, the Scottish Government’s opportunities for new entrants programme has helped only 76 young entrants to get into farming.

Does the cabinet secretary agree that that is a disappointingly low number and that a new strategy is required to address that?

Mairi Gougeon (Scottish National Party, Angus North and Mearns)

We have a manifesto commitment to look at that, which is why I welcome the evaluation that has recently been published. I was pleased to read in the evaluation that the grants were successful in encouraging 254 new younger entrants into the sector, and that we granted more than £11.6 million to allow that to happen.

As the member said, the review highlighted that there are also challenges relating to land availability and the profitability of agricultural businesses. There remain considerable barriers to new entrants, which grants alone will not be able to address. However, as I have just intimated, we will be using the outcomes of the review to help to shape the future plans for new entrant support, in line with our manifesto commitment.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

I will take a couple of supplementary questions. Make them as brief as possible, please.

Emma Roddick (Scottish National Party, Highlands and Islands)

Can the cabinet secretary advise Parliament about the SkillSeeder programme, what it does and how it is being funded?

Mairi Gougeon (Scottish National Party, Angus North and Mearns)

The SkillSeeder company is delivering an easily accessible rural and land-based training IT platform. Ultimately, that aims to break down the barriers for people throughout rural Scotland and make it easier for people to find the right training for them, and for skill sharers and trainers to easily reach people who need their training. There are already 5,000 courses on the platform, including from colleges, machinery rings, renewable companies and forestry organisations. We recently announced some funding in relation to that, so I would encourage people who are interested in undertaking training to seek out those opportunities.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

I call Evelyn Tweed.

Audrey Nicoll (Scottish National Party, Aberdeen South and North Kincardine)

Thank you, Presiding Officer.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

Sorry—I mean Audrey Nicoll. I was looking at the wrong paper.

Audrey Nicoll (Scottish National Party, Aberdeen South and North Kincardine)

I appreciate that Liz Smith’s questions related to the farming sector but, similarly, the fishing and seafood industries are working hard to attract young people to their sectors. That includes fish processors in my constituency, who are working with Seafish and the Scottish Seafood Association through campaigns such as “Sea a Bright Future”. Will the cabinet secretary give an update on the work that is being done to support young people to move into the fishing and processing sectors?

The Deputy Presiding Officer

I like to keep members on their toes.

Mairi Gougeon (Scottish National Party, Angus North and Mearns)

That is another area where we are keen

to see new entrants. The marine fund Scotland has supported new entrants to secure their positions in the fishing industry. For example, we have been assisting young fishers to purchase their first fishing boat or to have a share in a fishing boat. To date, we have awarded around £2 million of funding to assist entry of young fishers to the sector. The fund has also supported new entrants by providing grant support to Seafish to deliver training in Scotland.

Aquaculture (Licensing)

Annabelle Ewing (Scottish National Party, Cowdenbeath)

7. To ask the Scottish Government when it will implement the findings of the first stage of the review on licensing in the aquaculture sector. (S6O-00916)

Mairi Gougeon (Scottish National Party, Angus North and Mearns)

The review that was undertaken by Professor Russel Griggs is comprehensive and ambitious, and it fulfils the remit that was given to him. I take this opportunity to thank Professor Griggs again for his work and all the effort that he put into producing it.

I have made clear my agreement to all the recommendations in principle, and I will announce shortly the next steps that will take us beyond this first phase. It is vital that we maintain that momentum and approach our commitment to streamline the regulatory process for aquaculture at pace.

Annabelle Ewing (Scottish National Party, Cowdenbeath)

I am pleased to hear that there is an intention to proceed speedily. The cabinet secretary will be aware that 600 jobs in Rosyth in my constituency depend on the success of the salmon industry. I therefore ask her to confirm that she will instruct her officials to work at pace to implement the Griggs review recommendations, because that will ensure a better, more efficient and transparent aquaculture regulatory framework, which is essential for future sustainability and competitiveness. Will she also confirm that she will work constructively with industry to get that right?

Mairi Gougeon (Scottish National Party, Angus North and Mearns)

Yes—that is certainly my intention. Aquaculture is hugely important to Scotland’s economy and I recognise that Rosyth is one of the communities that depend on the success of a sustainable aquaculture industry. As I have mentioned, we are determined to make sure that we continue with that momentum and pace in progressing work that takes us beyond the first phase of the review. We are committed to that collaborative working and we will continue to engage with stakeholders into phase 2 of the aquaculture review and in the production of a Government-led vision for aquaculture.

As part of our manifesto commitments, we said that we would reform and streamline regulatory processes so that development is more responsive, transparent and efficient. To achieve that, we are also committed through our manifesto to implement a process that will bring greater clarity and speed to the process of aquaculture regulation. We appointed Professor Griggs as part of our commitments for our first 100 days. We are now finalising the next steps into phase 2 of the work that is required to move beyond the status quo.

Rachael Hamilton (Conservative, Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire)

The mortality rate of salmon in Scottish salmon farms was 24 per cent in 2020. Environmental sustainability depends on the robust enforcement of compliance, but the Scottish Environment Protection Agency and NatureScot have recently suffered successive budget cuts. Would any new licence fee be used to pay for the greatly expanded independent monitoring of impacts on fish farms, especially sea lice counts and fish deaths?

Mairi Gougeon (Scottish National Party, Angus North and Mearns)

As I said in my previous response, we will build on the work that has just been announced and continue that momentum. It would be premature of me to make any specific commitments in relation to what the member is talking about, given the phase that the work is at.

As part of the Bute house agreement, we recognised that an immediate programme of work needed to be carried out in that regard. I highlight to the member and others across the chamber that we set out our response to the salmon interactions working group to try and tackle some of the existing issues while we were undertaking the review.

Agriculture Policy (War in Ukraine)

Sue Webber (Conservative, Lothian)

8. To ask the Scottish Government whether it is adapting its agriculture policy for crops and livestock due to the war in Ukraine. (S6O-00917)

Mairi Gougeon (Scottish National Party, Angus North and Mearns)

The Scottish Government recognises the impact that the terrible war in Ukraine is having on global agrifood markets. On 17 March, we announced, jointly with industry leaders, the establishment of a short-life food security and supply task force to monitor, identify and respond to any potential disruption to the food and drink supply chain. It will recommend actions that can be taken to mitigate impacts, resolve supply issues and strengthen food security and supply in Scotland. We remain committed to producing more of our own food sustainably while maintaining and enhancing nature.

Sue Webber (Conservative, Lothian)

The war in Ukraine has highlighted the need to support our farmers and growers to deal with crises such as inflationary pressure and the market volatility that they face. Will the cabinet secretary promise that her Government will not approve any more deals to send thousands of sweet potatoes to Russia?

Mairi Gougeon (Scottish National Party, Angus North and Mearns)

A few points need to be clarified in relation to the issue. The Scottish Government does not approve export deals. We have led calls for businesses to disinvest in Russia as a result of the invasion of Ukraine, and we have communicated that clearly to the sweet potato suppliers concerned. The Scottish Government and its economic agencies will use all available powers not to support trade and investment activity in Russia. When a company makes a decision to export plants or plant products from Scotland, including sweet potatoes, Scottish Government officials are required to carry out various activities, including inspection and certification of goods, but the Scottish Government does not approve export deals.

Jenni Minto (Scottish National Party, Argyll and Bute)

It was said earlier that the terrible conflict in Ukraine will impact on food security in Scotland. That was highlighted in the debate on the Good Food Nation (Scotland) Bill on Tuesday. How is the United Kingdom Government involving the Scottish Government and the other devolved Administrations in discussions and deliberations in that area?

Mairi Gougeon (Scottish National Party, Angus North and Mearns)

Across the Scottish Government, we are in contact with the UK Government on a range of aspects relating to the conflict and its impact. The First Minister attends a weekly domestic resilience meeting that is chaired by the Minister for the Cabinet Office, and Ukraine has been one of the top agenda items at our regular interministerial group meetings with the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and other devolved Administrations.

I continue to press for further engagement with the Minister of State at the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, Victoria Prentis, to ensure that we are closely involved in responding to the fast-moving situation. I did so at the most recent interministerial group meeting, which took place at the start of this week. In that meeting, Victoria Prentis assured all the relevant devolved ministers that there would be on-going close contact and liaison, given that many issues that are impacted by the Russian invasion of Ukraine are devolved and shared across the UK. I am keen to ensure that that commitment is followed through, and I will do what I can to ensure that it is.

Colin Smyth (Labour, South Scotland)

I wish the cabinet secretary well in getting that engagement, because she will know that many Ukrainian seasonal workers are carrying out outstanding work in supporting Scottish agriculture and fruit growing. Although their visas have been extended until December, the visas are valid only as long as the worker stays on their current farm or is placed on another farm by their sponsor. Those workers cannot apply for their families to join them, and they generally have no recourse to public funds.

Will the cabinet secretary consider what more support the Scottish Government could give to those farm workers and, indeed, to help more farm workers to come to Scotland from Ukraine, including support on how they might be able to bring their family over and access public funds and services, given the enormous contribution that all those workers make to Scottish farming and fruit picking?

Mairi Gougeon (Scottish National Party, Angus North and Mearns)

Absolutely. We are committed to doing that, and we are doing all that we can to ensure that we give that support where possible.

I provide the assurance to members across the chamber that we are engaging closely and regularly with our fruit and vegetable producers. We are, of course, aware that there are workers from Ukraine already here. The plan was for many more to join them as part of the seasonal workforce, but it is clear that that is unlikely to happen. However, we are working urgently with all our stakeholders, and internally, to determine how best we can support those workers. That includes ensuring that they are aware of, and are known to, the parts of the Government that are co-ordinating our action to support Ukrainian refugees.

We have also reached out to RSABI with a view to utilising its seasonal worker helpline, which is already established. We are working closely with it to find out how it can provide assistance.

We want to provide all the practical and emotional support that we can, and we will certainly do everything that we can, with the powers and resources that we have, to provide that.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

That concludes portfolio question time. I apologise again to Audrey Nicoll and Evelyn Tweed for the confusion.

I remind members that, if they have a question or intend to ask a supplementary question at portfolio question time, they need to be here at the beginning of questions and remain until the end. I will not name and shame on this occasion, but let that be noted.

Retail Strategy

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

The next item of business is a statement by Tom Arthur on a retail strategy for Scotland. The minister will take questions at the end of his statement, so there should be no interruptions or interventions.

Tom Arthur (Scottish National Party, Renfrewshire South)

I am pleased to announce the publication of our retail strategy for Scotland today. The strategy recognises the importance of retail to Scotland’s communities, society, environment and economy, and it has been developed in collaboration with business, trade unions, academia and the public sector. I am thankful for the contribution of each person who has been involved.

Our shops often support neighbourhoods and communities. In rural areas or on our islands, the local shop is often the provider of lifeline products. Shops attract people into towns and cities and support other economic sectors such as tourism, culture and hospitality.

Retail also offers many people successful and flexible careers, from a first job in a local shop through to a career in distribution, supply chain businesses, large stores, ownership or management. With more than 240,000 employees—almost 10 per cent of Scotland’s entire workforce—retail is our largest private sector employer. It contributed £6.1 billion gross value added to the Scottish economy in 2019.

There are more than 15,500 retail businesses in Scotland, with growth of almost 2,000 since 2018. A strong, prosperous and vibrant retail sector is essential to fulfilling the vision of a wellbeing economy that we set out in Scotland’s national strategy for economic transformation. However, there is no doubt that our retailers and their staff have had a challenging time over the past two years. I have been incredibly grateful that so many of them went above and beyond for their customers and the most vulnerable in society during this exceptional period.

Since the Covid-19 pandemic started, the Scottish Government has done what it can to help businesses, including providing more than £4.5 billion of support. We are the only Government in the United Kingdom to offer 100 per cent rates relief for the past two years without any cap and are preventing a cliff-edge return to full liability by extending that support for retail through rates relief for the first three months of 2022-23. We are also supporting our high streets through the £10 million Scotland loves local programme and the £80 million Covid economic recovery fund, which encourages people to use and support their local businesses.

The pandemic has accelerated longer-term trends in, for example, online shopping, sustainable practices and the changing face of the high street. There remain challenges ahead, with staff shortages, rising inflation and the growing squeeze on living standards and business costs as a result of global trends and, of course, Brexit. Our retail strategy sets out actions that are designed to support the sector to rebuild after Covid, address longer-term challenges and maximise opportunities to fulfil its potential.

As we have seen during the pandemic, our retailers have been agile and creative in their response to meeting customer needs. Many have expanded their online and delivery capability. Many have switched to more ethical and sustainable products, packaging, sourcing and distribution. There are more retail businesses now than before the pandemic. That innovative and enterprising spirit will stand the sector in good stead as it evolves to meet the challenges and opportunities of the future.

Having set out in our strategic framework update how we will move beyond the pandemic, the time is right to publish the retail strategy. It builds on the national strategy for economy transformation and the Covid recovery strategy, and it sets out a shared vision for retail to become an exemplar for inclusive economic growth and play its part in creating a fairer, greener Scotland.

The retail strategy seeks to do that by building on the sector’s strengths so that it is successful, resilient, sustainable and profitable to the benefit of all in Scotland. We want to support innovation and entrepreneurship and to seize opportunities from new technology and markets to boost productivity and grow businesses. In that way, our retailers can benefit from and contribute to the bold programme of actions that will transform our economy over the next decade.

At the heart of the strategy, and a successful sector, are our people. As we further orient our economy towards wellbeing and fairness in order to significantly reduce poverty, we want to make fair work and skills development cornerstones of retail in Scotland. We want all retail workers have fulfilling and secure jobs. As I said in my statement to Parliament on 26 October last year,

“The retail strategy will have fair work at its core, which will benefit retail businesses by making them more attractive to workers and more resilient, productive and profitable.”—[

Official Report

, 26 October 2021; c 45.]

Unfortunately, employment law is currently reserved to the United Kingdom Government. With powers in that area, we could do more to protect and enhance workers’ rights, tackle poverty and increase fairness through legislation. However, we are determined to do all that we can, with the powers that we have, to make a difference.

I can announce today that we will work in collaboration with the sector and with trade unions to deliver a fair work agreement to which retailers can sign up to demonstrate an on-going commitment to fair work principles. That will include providing good-quality, secure employment and giving employees an effective voice. I expect that employers, in doing so, will take action to improve fair work conditions across retail and contribute to the reduction of in-work poverty.

Retail is a great choice for many. It offers opportunities for entry into the workforce, career progression and flexible working. It is vital that our workers have the right skills to enable them to have rewarding and secure careers and to grow businesses. That means strong customer service skills, which drive sales and business profitability. It also means new skills—for example, to harness the potential of new technology such as self-scan checkouts and online order systems. That is why we will work with Skills Development Scotland, the Scottish Funding Council and other partners to develop a retail skills audit and action plan. It will support reskilling and upskilling as jobs change in order to meet the needs of retail businesses and the careers of the people whom they employ.

A further aim is to strengthen retail’s contribution to the economic and social success of our local communities. Different locations have bespoke needs, and our retail sector has a pivotal role to play in helping to create and maintain successful places. We know that the pandemic has driven down footfall in some places, while others, including many local high streets, have thrived. There are already a number of place-based programmes to support retailers, such as the Scotland loves local campaign and business improvement districts. The actions in the strategy will support our retailers to think local—to work collaboratively in their communities; support local businesses and supply chains where possible; promote town and city centres; and consider creative responses to vacant retail units. We believe that that will build greater wellbeing in our neighbourhoods and in our town and city centres.

Reducing Scotland’s carbon footprint is essential to achieving our climate change targets and securing a just transition to a net zero economy by 2045. Our retailers have a crucial role in that regard through building secure local supply chains, adopting circular practices, increasing repair-and-reuse options and improving sustainable operations. Many retailers are already decarbonising their supply chains, setting their own net zero targets and encouraging customers to lead lower-carbon lifestyles, which is great to see. The strategy builds on that. We will, for example, develop a just transition plan for retail that will progress an environmentally and socially sustainable sector in the economy of the future.

The strategy rightly has a strong delivery focus and we, as a Government, will play our part in that. However, we cannot—and should not—be the sole vehicle for change. That is why we will establish a new industry leadership group for retail. Building on the collaboration that was involved in creating the strategy, the industry leadership group will oversee the development and delivery of strategy commitments such as those that I have just mentioned. It will focus on the actions in the national strategy for economic transformation that will directly support the retail sector. The leadership group will also agree a delivery plan, which will include a critical review process and timelines for measuring success. I will co-chair the group, and I look forward to that work getting under way.

The title of the strategy, “Getting the Right Change”, is more than a play on words. I make it clear that the publication of the strategy is just the beginning. It is the start of a new conversation with businesses and trade unions, customers and workers about how to support our retailers to overcome challenges and seize opportunities as we rebuild after Covid, and about how our recovery should improve the lives of people and their families—people who work in retail and the customers they serve.

Our vision is for a thriving, successful and profitable retail sector in Scotland that is an exemplar of inclusive economic growth. The strategy can make that vision a reality and ensure that we do, indeed, get the right change.

Annabelle Ewing (Scottish National Party, Cowdenbeath)

The minister will now take questions on the issues raised in his statement. I intend to allow around 20 minutes for questions. It would be helpful if those members who wish to ask a question press their request-to-speak buttons now and, at the same time, check that their cards are in.

Elizabeth Smith (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

I thank the minister for early sight of the statement and welcome the collaborative approach. The minister knows as well as the rest of us that, towards the end of last year, businesses and industry were saying that the Scottish Government had not consulted them enough. Therefore, it is good to hear that there is a change in direction to address their concerns.

I have three areas of questioning. First, on a short-term basis, businesses are obviously desperate to receive support as quickly as possible. However, what analysis has been taking place of some of the successful schemes? For example, the high street scheme in Northern Ireland has generally proved to be successful. In addition, what analysis has been undertaken on the business improvement district schemes in Scottish towns? I am aware of some in Mid Scotland and Fife that have been particularly successful, but there are, sadly, others that have not been successful. It would be interesting to know why some have worked and some have not, so I would be interested to hear what the minister has to say about that.

Secondly, what commitment has the Scottish Government made to look at transportation issues? People will not come to some of our town centres unless good-quality transport is available. I would be interested to know what discussions the minister is having with his colleagues in the transport portfolio.

Finally, in the long term, there obviously has to be a commitment to addressing some of the rising costs that businesses are facing, which are their main concern. Does the Scottish Government have a firm plan to look at reform and modernisation of the business rates system, which many businesses find extremely complex?

Tom Arthur (Scottish National Party, Renfrewshire South)

I thank Liz Smith for her question and welcome her support for the collaborative approach that we are taking through an industry leadership group. That collaborative approach will be fundamental to realising the ambitions in the strategy.

I will address the points in the order that she raised them.

Liz Smith asked about short-term interventions and, in particular, how our analysis of those interventions is informed. As I outlined in the statement, we have provided a range of support over the past two years during the pandemic. Most recently, the £80 million Covid economic recovery fund has been provided to local authorities, giving them an opportunity to support businesses in their areas in a way that is specific to them.

I note that reference was made to the voucher scheme in Northern Ireland. We have the Scotland loves local fund and the Scotland loves local gift card and I know that Glasgow City Council is looking at that mechanism for delivering support. What I see as fundamental is ensuring that we work in partnership with local authorities. They were members of the steering group and there was local authority engagement throughout the process of designing the strategy via the steering group.

We need to ensure that there is flexibility, because although retail will face certain common challenges in all parts of Scotland, some of the challenges will be unique to particular localities. We need provide support to local authorities to enable them to support and work with business, which often happens in other ways as well. The place-based investment programme provides capital support and there will be £10 million over five years for the Scotland loves local programme.

We are grateful for the work that Scotland’s Towns Partnership undertakes in delivering business improvement districts. We provided more than £500,000 during the pandemic to support BIDs. We recognise that there have been some challenges, so I am committed to undertaking continuous engagement with Scotland’s Towns Partnership to learn what lessons we have to from the pandemic about how we can strengthen the support that we provide for BIDs.

On the issue of transport access to town centres, some of that will be captured in what we are doing around the forthcoming town centre action plan. Ms Smith will also be aware of our transport aspirations with regard to 20-minute neighbourhoods, as contained in draft national planning framework 4 and consistent with the sustainable travel hierarchy as set in national transport strategy 2. We recognise that that is important. Ultimately, with regard to development, we would want to see an infrastructure first approach and a town centre first assessment. Again, that has been a long-standing element, but it is a fundamental part of our approach to 20-minute neighbourhoods in the national planning framework.

On the long-term issues around non-domestic rates, I appreciate that there were lengthy exchanges over the matter at the Finance and Public Administration Committee on Tuesday. Our position is that what businesses require right now is stability. A revaluation is forthcoming. As I said in the committee, we welcome the work of the Fraser of Allander Institute on its review of the small business bonus scheme. Although we are committed to that scheme for this parliamentary term, we will establish a short-life working group to reflect on the report that the Fraser of Allander Institute has provided. We all recognise that more data will allow us to be more bespoke in the design of our policies and ensure that all our policy interventions on non-domestic rates and other taxes deliver the maximum impact that we want to see.

Daniel Johnson (Labour, Edinburgh Southern)

I apologise for not being in the chamber in person for what I consider an incredibly important statement. I also refer members to my entry in the register of interests, as I am a director of a company with a residual retail interest and I am a member of USDAW—the Union of Shop, Distributive and Allied Workers.

I welcome this report earnestly and I agree with the preamble that the minister has provided. I also add a really important element, which is that retail is fundamentally the interface through which people’s salaries get recycled into the productive economy. Therefore, retaining retail is vital not just for the people who are employed in the sector or for the people who obtain goods and services from it but for the whole supply chain of a productive economy.

The report is useful and it identifies the right areas, but I question whether it identifies clear and new steps to address them. First, on productivity and technology, we know that there is a significant issue especially among small retailers with regard to technology uptake. Why, then, are no new initiatives identified to provide the flexible and clear support that they need? Likewise, on skills, we need more than just an audit of skills programmes. I wonder whether the new leadership group could have been empowered to design and deploy new skills programmes that would deliver the focus and flexibility that retail employers say is currently lacking.

On town centres and place, the linkage between office workers and retail footfall is key. In the short term, will the Scottish Government undertake a public reassurance programme to encourage people to get back into offices and deliver footfall, and will that element be incorporated in future iterations of the strategy?

Finally, I reiterate the points about business rates. As we discussed in committee, the link between non-domestic rates and business performance in retail, and indeed even business rents in the retail sector, is broken. Does the Scottish Government not realise that it fundamentally needs to review that levy?

The Deputy Presiding Officer

Before I call the minister to respond, I point out that we have used up quite a lot of the limited time that is available with front-bench questions and answers. Although I will allow a bit of latitude, we really need to allow all MSPs who wish to ask a question to have their chance. I now call for succinct answers, minister, and for further succinct questions when I call other members.

Tom Arthur (Scottish National Party, Renfrewshire South)

Certainly. I will endeavour to be succinct, but I am happy to meet any member who wishes to discuss any aspect of the strategy in more detail when they have had further time to consider it.

To address the specific points that Daniel Johnson raised, we have a commitment to a skills audit, which will be followed up with an action plan that we will develop in partnership with Skills Development Scotland, the SFC and other partners. The International Logistics Group will lead on that work too.

The member is correct to recognise the essential role that retail plays; it is a fundamental part of the broader ecosystem of our town and city centres.

Daniel Johnson made a point about the return to the office. Obviously, it will be for businesses to take a hybrid approach and we all recognise that the experience of hybrid working has proved to be very useful and beneficial for many people. Individual businesses, along with public sector organisations, will take their own decisions about how they incorporate hybrid working in the future. I encourage people to go out and shop in their high streets and city centres in support of local businesses.

I already touched on points around business rates in my answer to Liz Smith’s question, so I will not repeat what I said.

My final points on encouraging people into town centres are that community wealth building features throughout the strategy and that there is power in anchor institutions—both public and private sector—playing a role in drawing people into localities, which can support retail and the wider economy.

Siobhian Brown (Scottish National Party, Ayr)

Given that our town centres have been struggling for many years because of the combination of online shopping and industrial shopping estates opening up outwith town centres, does the minister agree that small independent retail businesses play a crucial role in providing essential services for our communities?

Tom Arthur (Scottish National Party, Renfrewshire South)

I agree entirely. There is a crucial role for small retail businesses, which has been exceptionally apparent during the pandemic, when they have provided lifeline goods and services, including to people who are vulnerable or shielding. I reiterate my thanks to all those who have gone above and beyond for the communities that they serve.

The actions in the strategy will support our retailers to think local and work collaboratively in their communities, and to support local businesses and supply chains, in line with the community wealth building approach. As I said in my statement, it is a people-centred approach to local economic development that seeks to ensure that wealth is less extracted from the local economy and more redirected back into it.

Jamie Halcro Johnston (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

Will the minister advise members who will make up the new industry leadership group for retail, how much progress it has made in appointing a co-chair and when he expects the first meeting to take place?

Tom Arthur (Scottish National Party, Renfrewshire South)

I will update the Parliament in due course. My aspiration is that the ILG will meet for the first time prior to the summer recess.

Christine Grahame (Scottish National Party, Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale)

I put on record my support and thanks to all the small retailers in Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale for coming through the terrible challenges of Covid. Given the vital contribution that small business retailers in my constituency make to the wellbeing of our town centres and the local economies in Melrose, Galashiels, Peebles and Penicuik, for example, how can they contribute to Scottish Government thinking and the strategy?

Tom Arthur (Scottish National Party, Renfrewshire South)

Key to that will be the industry leadership group, details of which I outlined in my statement. There will be an opportunity for industry leaders, as well as trade union representation, to feed into that. I want to see a wider conversation and discussion follow on from the publication of the retail strategy, and I encourage everyone who is involved in the retail sector—people who are employed in the sector and those of us who use the sector—to feed into the approach. I am happy to meet Christine Grahame, as I am happy to meet any member from around the chamber, to discuss that in more detail.

Claire Baker (Labour, Mid Scotland and Fife)

Following the collapse of major retailers and larger retailers rationalising by closing stores, how will the retail strategy deal with the ownership of large, empty units, such as those that I see across my region, in a way that avoids speculation and incentivises investment?

Tom Arthur (Scottish National Party, Renfrewshire South)

It is an excellent question. At the heart of that will be our community wealth building approach. We obviously want to stimulate our local economies to increase demand for vacant units. We will take a range of actions to help to realise community wealth building as a central element. Some of the things that we will do include planning reform, land assembly, compulsory purchase and our support for regeneration through the place-based investment programme.

A range of measures will be put in place but, fundamentally, we must increase the demand for units. Central to that will be the stimulation of local economies and the community wealth building approach, which is well embedded in many local authorities in Scotland. We will move from an extractive model to one with more wealth circulating locally and being retained by local communities.

Gordon MacDonald (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh Pentlands)

The retail sector has sustained and is facing damage from Brexit, the pandemic, the cost of living crisis and, now, the war in Ukraine. Given the impact on business costs and produce availability, how optimistic is the minister that the retail strategy is comprehensive enough to provide confidence to the retail sector?

Tom Arthur (Scottish National Party, Renfrewshire South)

It is an excellent question. We are living in unprecedented times and have been doing so for the past five years. The strategy is not a panacea, although it recognises and diagnoses some of the long-term systemic challenges that the retail sector has been facing.

Mr MacDonald is absolutely right to highlight the challenges that we are facing through the cost of living crisis. The strategy will be a living document and one of the first tasks of the ILG following its establishment is to develop a delivery plan that can take into account emerging events, including, for example, the cost of living crisis.

Beatrice Wishart (Liberal Democrat, Shetland Islands)

Rural, remote, and island areas rely on local shops that are often at the heart of the community. I also pay tribute to their hard work. They are also faced with barriers such as high delivery costs, minimum ordering that does not always align with storage and sales capacity limits, and planning that allows new supermarkets to be built on their doorsteps. Can the minister assure me that, given those issues, local community shops such as those found in my constituency and in other island and rural areas will be listened to by the new leadership group and that their voices will not be squeezed out?

Tom Arthur (Scottish National Party, Renfrewshire South)

Absolutely. I assure Beatrice Wishart that the industry leadership group will not just represent the breadth and diversity of the sector but the breadth and diversity of the geography of Scotland, and its different localities.

Collette Stevenson (Scottish National Party, East Kilbride)

As in other places, the retail sector in East Kilbride has been struggling for years, with companies such as Debenhams going bust, and others reducing the number of stores. How will the retail strategy benefit towns such as East Kilbride, which has a shopping centre rather than a high street, and help to revitalise a really important part of our town?

Tom Arthur (Scottish National Party, Renfrewshire South)

The heart of so much of our approach to local economic development is place based—creating communities and places where people want to visit, live and shop. That will be vital to the recovery from Covid of retail, culture, hospitality and tourism. Whether it be in high streets or shopping centres, retail is vital to our local communities, so the loss of anchor stores has an impact, as the member highlighted. We want retail businesses in all locations in our local communities to be successful and profitable, by being more productive and innovative, supporting entrepreneurship and driving business growth.

The shopping centre in East Kilbride has good public transport connections and a large community living in close proximity, in the same way as other towns.

We also have a number of place-based programmes that can support retailers and shopping centres, such as Scotland loves local, and business improvement districts, all of which are supported by the Scotland’s Towns Partnership.

Maggie Chapman (Green, North East Scotland)

I thank the minister for his statement and for the helpful discussions that we have had about the strategy prior to today.

We are all aware of the challenges of automation in relation to job destruction, so I am pleased to see that the strategy discusses opportunities for automation to drive up product standards and reduce waste. Will the minister outline his thinking about how automation can also improve working conditions in retail and help us to meet wider sustainability goals? Can he also confirm what trade union representation there will be on the industry leadership group?

Tom Arthur (Scottish National Party, Renfrewshire South)

I am sorry, but I did not pick up the very last part of Maggie Chapman’s question.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

Minister, please resume your seat. Maggie Chapman, could you possibly repeat just the last part of your question?

Maggie Chapman (Green, North East Scotland)

Of course; my apologies. Can the minister confirm what trade union representation there will be on the industry leadership group?

Tom Arthur (Scottish National Party, Renfrewshire South)

I have already had constructive conversations with Tracy Gilbert of USDAW, and USDAW will be invited to be part of the group. I will be looking to ensure that we have maximum worker representation on the ILG. I will, of course, welcome any views from members across the chamber.

On the point about automation, Maggie Chapman is absolutely correct that it can be easy to focus on automation as something that displaces jobs rather than augmenting them. One of the opportunities that retail faces is using such augmentation to drive up standards and quality, to create new and more fulfilling jobs, and to create more opportunities. That is why we will take forward the skills audit and the skills action plan. It is also why the strategy aligns with our national strategy for economic transformation, particularly with the measures to drive up productivity.

I look forward to having such conversations in the ILG, and more widely with members across the chamber.

Douglas Lumsden (Conservative, North East Scotland)

The strategy document claims that the Scottish Government has

“delivered future-proofed mobile and broadband connectivity in remote, rural and island communities the length and breadth of Scotland”.

That claim is laughable. Will the minister who is responsible for Scotland’s digital strategy say when the Scottish Government will deliver on its reaching 100 per cent programme commitments and ensure that rural retailers can take full advantage of the opportunities of doing business online?

Tom Arthur (Scottish National Party, Renfrewshire South)

The Government is taking action, although I remind the member that telecommunications is a reserved matter. If only we had more powers in the Parliament, we could do far more.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

The final question is from Stephanie Callaghan.

Stephanie Callaghan (Scottish National Party, Uddingston and Bellshill)

I agree that the retail strategy represents an opportunity to advance Scotland’s wellbeing economy. How will the strategy feed into Scotland’s broader vision of an economic system that is based on wellbeing, fair work and community empowerment?

Tom Arthur (Scottish National Party, Renfrewshire South)

A strong, prosperous and vibrant retail sector is essential to the vision of the wellbeing economy, as described in Scotland’s new 10-year “National Strategy for Economic Transformation”. The retail strategy contains current initiatives and future actions that will fulfil that vision and rebuild after Covid in a fair and sustainable way.

It is important to support all retailers to align with the community wealth building approach, which includes local ownership and hiring of staff, adoption of fair work practices, engaging with community organisations, and considering local enterprises within the supply chain. Those are important elements of our approach, and they will ensure that local people and businesses have a genuine stake in producing, owning and enjoying the wealth that we create, moving us closer to the more just, equitable and sustainable society that we want as we rebuild Scotland’s post-Covid-19 economy.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

Thank you minister. That concludes the statement on a retail strategy for Scotland. I thank members and the minister for their co-operation.