Northern Ireland Assembly, 7 October 2025

326 contributions from 53 members. The official report.

Assembly Business

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Members, before we begin today's business, I want to briefly return to our rules and conventions in relation to the authority of the Chair. You may remember that, on 9 September this year, the Speaker reminded Members:

"Standing Order 1(2) is clear that the ruling of the Chair is final in all matters of procedure. Regardless of a Member's view on how a Speaker or Deputy Speaker has dealt with something, it is out of order to ... challenge whomever is in the Chair." — [Official Report (Hansard), 9 September 2025, p31, col 2]

The Speaker made clear that there is no discussion to be had on the issue. The Speaker also pointed out that there is a precedent for Members not being called to contribute to further business if they continue to challenge the authority of the Chair. If that is clear, I will move on.

Members' Statements

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I remind Members that, if they wish to be called to make a statement, they should rise continually in their place. Members who are called will have up to three minutes to make their statement.

The Speaker previously reminded Members that Members' statements are for a single issue and not for a series of issues. Members have previously been reminded of Standing Order 24A, which states:

"A statement must relate to a topical matter of public interest and"

should not

"be used to impugn or to attack another member."

Members should be mindful of that when making their contributions.

I also remind Members that interventions are not permitted and that I will not be taking any points of order on this or any other matter until the item of business has finished.

Nicola Brogan (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

I take the opportunity this morning to raise the very serious issue of inadequate car parking and drop-off points and facilities at St Conor's Primary School in Omagh and to urge the Education Minister to support the school in its efforts to resolve the matter. The issue is causing serious safety concerns in the area, particularly for the safety of schoolchildren attending the primary school but also for local residents and pedestrians in the area.

St Conor's is an excellent, thriving primary school, with a bustling school community of around 450 pupils. It is located between two very busy through roads that are used by many drivers to bypass Omagh town, causing increased traffic. Both roads are lined with housing developments that have hundreds of residential properties. There is huge disruption in the morning and afternoon when parents drop off and pick up children. Many parents end up parking at the side of the road, blocking other road users and even blocking access to some homes.

The issue has been ongoing for some years and has been a matter of great frustration and worry for the school leadership, staff and local residents, who are impacted on by the huge volume of traffic in the area. It is obviously a serious concern for parents too, who worry about the safety of their children going to and from school. The school leadership has worked incredibly hard over a number of years to find a solution to the issue and to ensure that pupils are safe. It has worked alongside Fermanagh and Omagh District Council, local residents and local elected representatives to highlight the serious risks that are associated with the issue to the Department of Education, the Education Authority (EA) and DFI and to urge all involved to find a solution quickly. It is my understanding that the council and the school have identified a suitable area of land that the Department of Education can develop into a safe space for parents to drop off and pick up children from St Conor's.

I again urge the Department of Education and all relevant stakeholders to work together and to make the necessary changes so that children can attend the school safely and residents do not face that level of disruption on a daily basis. The council recently invited the Education Minister to St Conor's to see for himself the disruption that is faced there daily. Unfortunately, he has been unable to attend so far, but I again extend an invitation to him to come to the constituency and see for himself the risks that are involved.

Trevor Clarke (DUP, South Antrim)

When I looked at the tweet last night from the Alliance Party, its content reminded me of the Oompa Loompas from 'Charlie and the Chocolate Factory'. On a more serious note, it is disappointing that the Alliance Justice Minister choose that attack on policing, given that, because of the numbers, it is vulnerable at the moment. If the Minister, who is attacking the DUP, thinks that we are wrong to stand up for policing, we are wrong. However, we will continue to stand up for policing, whereas the Minister has let down policing in Northern Ireland.

There are some who claim that the collapse of devolution was the cause of the decrease in numbers. What utter nonsense. Had the Minister left the Department in good shape, the trajectory would have been that police numbers continued to increase. Let us look at the record of the Minister. The Police Federation for Northern Ireland has come out and taken a shot, and it has not missed in what it said about the Minister. It has rebuked the Minister, because she is utterly wrong. Utterly wrong.

Let us look at the record. The current Chief Constable has been vociferous in his fight for policing and has made the strongest possible case for numbers, because the Minister has failed to do anything. The Chief Constable made that case directly to Downing Street. What happened to him for that? The Minister and her little helpers rebuked him, but, of course, he ignored that, because he wanted to put the police in the strongest possible position.

I and my party will not take any lectures from the Minister, who is normally missing in action. She comes in here merely for Question Time and is not seen amongst us for any other debate. However, she puts out tweets and Facebook posts claiming that we are responsible for the decrease in police numbers. Of course, the Minister has been back in post for a considerable time, but the numbers have not gone up. The Chief Constable is now at risk of overspending the budget, because he took the pause off recruitment. He started recruiting on the basis of a funding package that was promised by the Minister but that he still does not have. The Minister promised more money in the next monitoring round, but that has not taken place. The Minister references her "business case". She has no business case. The business case squarely belongs to the Chief Constable, who has made the case and fought for policing, while the Minister has been absent.

Danny Donnelly (Alliance, East Antrim)

All Members should agree that a winter preparedness plan published on 31 December 2025 is not just slightly delayed but a complete failure, yet, by the Department's own metric, according to the business plan that it presented to the Committee for Health last week, publishing the plan on the very last day of the year will still be marked amber and considered to be experiencing some delays but still on track to be met for the end of the year. That is a system that is designed to tick boxes, not to save lives. I know that the Minister of Health is probably sick of hearing me raise this, and, to some, it may sound inconsequential, as it is just another delayed plan, but I have lived the impacts. I have seen them at first hand, and I am telling him that it is not just a delay on paper. It will potentially lead to loss of life and to a loss of workforce. That is real.

Last year, the winter preparedness plan was not published until mid-November, and the Minister will be well aware that pressures had started long before then. At the time, the Royal College of Emergency Medicine judged it as being "too little, too late". Publishing a plan at that stage of the year is simply inadequate. How can one claim to be preparing for a storm when already standing in the eye of it? We were promised a winter preparedness plan in August, then in September. It is now into October, and still there is no plan. Can we really trust the Department's commitments when that is the case, or are those commitments just vague promises that are designed to give the illusion of progress, when, in truth, targets are being missed and people are being harmed?

The Minister disagreed with me yesterday when I said that delays in publishing the plan will have an impact on workforce retention. As a nurse, I must wholeheartedly disagree with him. Every consultation, every review and every report highlights the same challenges, and workforce is always one of the biggest ones, coming up again and again. Does the Minister really believe that the delay is not contributing to the problem? Does he really believe that leaving staff without a plan by publishing it late is not adding to the already crippling pressures on the workforce and pushing nurses and other healthcare staff out of the service? It may be just one issue from a long list of issues, but it still has a very real and damaging impact that should not be dismissed.

Perhaps the Minister does not believe that the delay impacts on staff, but what about the impact on loss of life? The Royal College of Emergency Medicine estimated that 818 excess deaths in Scotland last year were linked to long A&E waits. For Northern Ireland in 2022, it suggested that more than 1,400 excess deaths had occurred. We are two years behind on the data, and Scotland has three times our population, yet excess deaths here are approaching double what Scotland's are now. The resulting excess deaths and dangerous delays cannot be dismissed as just a late policy paper. This is not about paperwork or process, as the delay has real and hard-hitting consequences for our health service, our healthcare workers, our patients and the people whom we are here to represent. Every week without a plan means that patients are waiting longer and that staff are being pushed further, and that is resulting in unnecessary loss of life. Something needs to change, and I encourage the Minister to act with urgency.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

On 7 October 2023, 1,189 Israelis and people of other nationalities were murdered by Hamas and other Palestinian terrorists. A further 251 were taken hostage in Gaza. The United Nations Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory, which could hardly be credibly described as being supportive of Israel in any way, reported that there was considerable evidence of murder; torture; sexual violence; the rape of men, women and children; mutilation; beheading; burning to death of children, of old and young and of men and women alike; and other horrors that are too graphic to relate to the Assembly.

There is no justification under any terms for such attacks, none that even the most anti-Israeli or antisemitic of commentators could justify having read the UN report. Day in, day out, however, we still hear calls for support for the global intifada, and how often do we see and hear on our streets, "From the river to the sea"? Both mean death to all Jews everywhere. The fact that that barbarity can occur in the 21st century is not a surprise. Similar horrors, including actual genocides, are happening in Darfur, Myanmar, Sudan and Syria to the Yazidis and the Druze, as well as in the Democratic Republic of Congo. Equally appalling acts of humanity have occurred and are occurring there. There is, however, never a cheep or even a tweet from the anti-Israeli brigade at any cost to them. Remember that if it is not about Jews, it does not count.

There is a prayer that our Jewish friends say for the dead called the Kaddish. There are a few of us here, so, in accordance with Jewish tradition, I ask you to bow your heads and join me in prayer, commemorating the victims of 7 October and asking for a more tolerant nation:

"Magnified and sanctified is the great name of God throughout the world, which was created according to Divine will. May the rule of peace be established speedily in our time, unto us and unto the entire household of Israel. And let us say: Amen." "May there be abundant peace from heaven, with life’s goodness for us and for all thy people Israel. And let us say: Amen. May the One who brings peace to the universe bring peace to us and to all the people Israel. Amein, Shalom, v'al kol Yisra'eil v'al kol yosh-vei tevel. Amen, Peace upon all Israel, and upon all the inhabitants of the world."

Shalom, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker.

Cara Hunter (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

I rise to speak passionately about play and the provision of play parks in my constituency. I call on the Communities Minister to work closely with our councils on the provision of sport and play. The United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child is clear that every child has the right to access play. Play is not a privilege; it is a right.

Regrettably, however, across our towns and villages in East Derry, from Limavady to Greysteel, from Castlerock to Coleraine and beyond, we have seen that play parks have been left to fall into neglect and disrepair. I think particularly of Kylemore in Coleraine. Parents there tell me of broken swings and rusty slides, and glass and litter that have been thrown across play areas that once brought joy but are now overrun with vandalism. In Mountsandel, residents have said that the park is unchanged since they were children, and, sadly, we saw a complete absence of a play park in Greysteel for a number of years. I have particular concerns about the lack of play provision for our children in rural areas.

The play park beside the Mall car park in Coleraine, which is just a few yards from my constituency office, was described by one constituent as "unusable". From my observations, it is indeed unused. That is what happens when play parks are treated as an afterthought and as something that is nice to have, should budgets allow it, instead of the core part of our community life that they are. We would not leave our roads, schools or libraries to rot, yet we do that with our play parks.

We need to fundamentally rethink how we approach play and play parks and where they are placed across our council areas. Every child in every community, regardless of whether it is urban or rural, should have access to a modern, fun, safe and inclusive play park within a reasonable distance of their home. That requires strategic thinking and proper investment. For all those parents who have children with additional needs, inclusive design must be the standard, not the exception. Every play park should be accessible to all our children. I call on the Communities Minister to work very closely with all council areas on those matters.

Cathal Boylan (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Last week, I met staff from St Patrick's Grammar School in Armagh. That school has a long history in Armagh, as it was established in 1838. The school building has been developed and added to over the years. It is now home to over 850 pupils and 120 staff. However, with any long-standing building come issues to do with maintenance and upkeep. St Patrick's is no different. Both the original school building and the two-storey wing that was added to the school in 1907 are uninsulated. Therefore, they are having an adverse impact on the school's interior. Areas of the external render are cracked, and moisture has subsequently been trapped and sealed in the walls, causing issues internally with dampness. The school's windows and heating system are in much need of major attention. The heating in the school is primarily a one-pipe system, and it is inefficient to operate. The boiler and pumps are far away from the 1907 block, and it requires a large volume of water to be heated and fed through the system. Staff tell me that the radiators never get hot; they are tepid at best.

Following the meeting on 26 September 2025 with the architects, the design team and the Education Authority (EA), it was noted that the team had explored various options that will be issued to the DE for consideration. I am therefore using my Member's statement to call on the Education Minister to urgently review the recommendations that have been made and to work with the school to overcome the issues that it faces.

In closing, I commend the staff for their best efforts to ensure that the issues do not affect the learning needs of their pupils, who deserve a safe and healthy environment to learn and study in. The need for the Department and the EA to provide a comfortable environment is paramount, and I will continue to work with the school to achieve that development.

Paul Frew (DUP, North Antrim)

Like Steve Aiken, I stand in reflection on and remembrance of the day two years ago — 7 October 2023 — that changed the world of every Israeli citizen and every Palestinian in Gaza and sent shock waves through the world. My heart goes out today to all the people affected by that terrorist attack and the war that ensued. They have my sincere, mindful thoughts and prayers at this time. That Hamas attack on innocent civilians has absolutely no comparison to anything that it has done in its history, which is saying something. That terrorist organisation used barbarism on a new scale — an evil that had no limits and absolutely no control. It was barbarism all unbound, and it brought destruction on so many people, so many who were living peacefully in their kibbutz and so many young people who were attending the Nova music festival.

I had the honour of visiting the Nova festival site six months after the atrocious attack. It was impactful for me, my experience and my world view to see all the young faces stand tall in remembrance and reflection, each one of them having lost their life. What struck me that day in that mournful scene was that, in each of the images of those who, I knew, had left the scene at that time, every face was smiling. Hamas took not only their lives but their dreams and hopes and not only their dreams and hopes but those of their families. Every day since then, there has been a missing person, an empty chair around a dining table and a member of the community lost who put in so much effort in their kibbutz. It was a surreal experience and one that will never leave me. I stand here today in solemn remembrance of all those who lost their lives in that atrocious terrorist attack and the war afterwards.

Colin McGrath (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

Once again, we find ourselves in the deeply regrettable but, frankly, avoidable position in which our nurses, the backbone of our health service, are forced to consider strike action. The Royal College of Nursing has begun balloting its members on whether to take to the picket line not out of choice but out of sheer frustration and necessity. It is a disgrace that, six months into the financial year, our nurses still wait for their pay uplift. They have cared for us through crisis after crisis, through the pandemic and the worst winters in living memory, yet here we are again, watching the Executive dither and delay while those dedicated professionals are left wondering when they will be paid what they are rightly owed.

I recently wrote to the First Ministers to ask for an update on the pay award: I never received a reply. I asked the Finance Minister for an update on the pay award: he was cautiously optimistic. I asked the Department of Health permanent secretary, who was hopeful. In the Chamber yesterday, I listened carefully to the Health Minister's response to my question. I wanted to hear a clear answer — a date, a commitment, a sense of urgency — but there was none. That silence speaks volumes. At this rate, with the way that the Executive are going, we will be in the next financial year before nurses see a penny of what is due to them this year. That is simply unacceptable.

Should it come to strike action, let no Member from an Executive party have the gall to stand on a picket line. They cannot preside over the delay, dither and indecision and then turn up for a photo opportunity to show their so-called solidarity. Nurses do not need empty words or sympathetic tweets from the Executive; they need fair pay and action. It is time that the Executive stopped making excuses and started making payments. If the Executive truly value our nurses and want to avoid strike action, they must pay nurses what they are owed — what they have worked for and what they have been promised — and they must do it now.

Cathy Mason (Sinn Féin, South Down)

We all know that a school is so much more than a building; it is the hub of childhood memories; Christmas plays fill the assembly hall; fundraisers bring the school community together; and lifelong friendships begin within the school gates. St Malachy's Primary School in Kilclief is the perfect example of that. It is so much more than just a school. It sits at the very heart of village and parish life. Generations of our families are connected to it. The potential closure of St Malachy's has, therefore, come as a great shock to the parents, staff and, most important, the children who call it their school. Recently, I met parents and the principal of St Malachy's. It is clear that they are deeply committed to securing its future. Their message is very simple: the school matters not just to Kilclief but to the wider community; it provides high-quality education in a caring community setting; and its loss would be felt far beyond the school gates.

Following those discussions, I wrote to the Education Minister and the Education Authority (EA), urging them to work with the Council for Catholic Maintained Schools and the school to ensure that every possible option is fully considered before any decision is taken. One option is to have specialist provision in mainstream schools (SPiMS) on the Kilclief site. The school has already made it known to the Education Authority that it is willing to host such provision, but, to date, has received no response. That is simply not acceptable, given that the EA seemingly blames schools for not stepping up, and it is particularly not acceptable given that the Downpatrick area has been identified as one of the areas that is most under pressure from need for special educational needs placements. At a time when children have to travel to Belfast to access specialist support, it makes absolutely no sense to overlook a school that is just a few miles up the road and has the space, the facilities and the willingness to help. Let me be clear: SPiMS should never be used solely as a mechanism by which to keep a school open, but is that not common sense? It is a child-centred solution that could address a clear need in the system.

Rural schools such as St Malachy's are the backbone of communities across the North. Once they close, they do not come back. We must do everything in our power to protect them and to ensure that decisions are based not on numbers alone but on people, potential and community value. I will continue to stand with the parents, staff and children of St Malachy's Primary School in their campaign to keep their doors open. I will continue to make sure that their voices are heard.

Timothy Gaston (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Tomorrow, the European Parliament is expected to pass an amendment to a Bill that would ban the use of meaty terms for vegetarian products. If that should come into law, companies would no longer be allowed to market things such as vegetarian sausage rolls or veggie burgers. That has real consequences for Northern Ireland.

Under the Windsor framework, EU regulations continue to apply here. That means that Northern Ireland producers could soon be banned from calling a vegetarian sausage roll a vegetarian sausage roll, while the exact same product made in Great Britain could be sold under its familiar name; in other words, the famous Greggs vegan sausage roll would remain perfectly legal so long as it arrived via the Windsor framework screened lane. Assuming that the amendment is, indeed, passed, the same roll baked in Belfast would need a new name — perhaps it could be "plant-based pastry tube" — to satisfy EU sensitivities.

That neatly illustrates the democratic deficit and commercial distortion created by the Windsor framework. Once again, Northern Ireland finds itself bound by rules that it did not make and subject to decisions on which no one in Northern Ireland has a vote. While the European Parliament debates what a sausage roll can be called, businesses here must brace for yet another layer of regulation that applies in Belfast but not in Birmingham. That is not the unfettered access that we were promised. It underscores how the so-called green lane is, in fact, a border within our own country. If the amendment passes, it will be one more reminder that the people of Northern Ireland are governed by laws that are made elsewhere, right down to what we can write on a bakery label. Even in our own Stormont canteen, the famous beetroot burger faces the chop. That may seem a small matter, but it speaks volumes about sovereignty, equality and common sense, all of which are missing from that arrangement.

Diane Forsythe (DUP, South Down)

Last night, my constituency of South Down was severely affected by a council decision. The majority of Newry, Mourne and Down District Council voted that Newry city and our district should become a city and council of sanctuary. Out of 41 councillors, the five DUP councillors have stood firm throughout in their opposition to that, alongside the single UUP councillor. However, they are hugely in the minority.

The process by which we have arrived here is shameful. Time and again, we have seen the legitimate concerns of local people on issues surrounding immigration being disregarded, ignored and, in fact, openly mocked in council last night, which was another episode in an unfortunate series. The council decided to progress on that path. It did not provide answers or clear information to local councillors with concerns. There was no public consultation. The public learned of it in the press and had many questions. They went to councillors and Council Direct and received nothing. The council then issued a scant "frequently asked questions" document answering the questions that, the council decided, needed to be answered, not those of the public. The people arranged a public meeting in a local place, inviting the council to outline the plans and what they meant. The council blocked the meeting, and it did not occur. The people then took to the streets of Newry city to voice their concerns. Only two DUP councillors went along to speak and share the concerns of the wider public.

Newry, Mourne and Down District Council needs to be honest about the practicalities and costs of what it means for the people of the district. We need to have the details to address the legitimate concerns that have been raised by many. Where people are ignored and silenced, trust is lost. Our DUP team has significant concerns about what the charter might mean for encouraging illegal immigrants to come to this country. It could create a barrier to lawful and justified removal of those who come here illegally. The fact is that legitimate concerns are ignored and swept under the carpet time and again in the House and throughout councils. The lack of respect serves no good end. It is commonplace in our Sinn Féin-dominated council, where our unionist councillors, who are severely in the minority, are, time and again, shut out, cast aside and shown a huge lack of respect. Council needs to tread carefully. A council that ignores genuine concerns and local people is one that is destined for a difficult path.

We in the DUP will always speak up on that, even if we stand alone. We will speak up for common sense and for the ratepayers of our district, who have legitimate concerns. They deserve to be heard.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Thank you, Diane. That ends Members' statements. Members, take your ease while we change the top Table, please.

(Mr Deputy Speaker [Dr Aiken] in the Chair)

Ministerial Statement

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

The Speaker has received notice from the Minister of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs that he wishes to make a statement. Before I call the Minister, I remind Members that they must be concise in asking their questions. This is not an opportunity for debate, and long introductions will not be allowed.

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, for the opportunity to make a statement to the Assembly on the recent suspected case of highly pathogenic avian influenza (HPAI) at a commercial poultry premises outside Omagh, County Tyrone. A veterinary investigation was instigated on Friday 3 October 2025 at a commercial broiler breeder poultry premises outside Omagh, County Tyrone, after a number of mortalities. Samples were taken for testing at the Agri-Food and Biosciences Institute (AFBI). Following the preliminary results from AFBI, which indicated the presence of HPAI H5N1, the Chief Veterinary Officer took the decision, based on a number of factors, including the preliminary results, clinical signs and the epidemiological picture, to establish two temporary control zones (TCZs) centred on the infected premises. A 3-kilometre TCZ A and a 10-kilometre TCZ B were introduced on Sunday 5 October 2025, effective from 9.00 am. It is the first suspected case of HPAI in a commercial poultry premises in Northern Ireland since the last confirmed case on 24 February 2025. I am sure that you will agree, Mr Deputy Speaker, that that is devastating news for the premises owner concerned and for the wider industry. The last confirmed case of HPAI H5N1 in a wild bird that was collected in Northern Ireland was on 24 July 2025. England continued to have cases of HPAI in poultry premises throughout the spring and summer of 2025, with the most recent case confirmed on 28 September 2025 in a commercial poultry premises in Cumbria.

Avian influenza, commonly known as bird flu, is a highly contagious viral disease affecting the respiratory, digestive and/or nervous system of many species of birds, and it is essential to emphasise that failure to report it constitutes an offence. The advice from the Public Health Agency (PHA) notes that avian influenza is primarily a disease of birds and that the risk to the general public’s health is very low. The advice from the Food Standards Agency (FSA) notes that avian influenza poses a very low food-safety risk for UK consumers and that properly cooked poultry and poultry products, including eggs, are safe to eat. Northern Ireland relies heavily on the wider agri-food industry as a source of employment. Poultry and egg production contributes significantly to the agri-food economy and is valued at over £600 million, and it is vital that we protect that industry.

I will outline the actions and measures that are being taken by my Department in response to the incursion. My Department commenced a full depopulation of the site on Tuesday 7 October 2025. I put on record my thanks for the engagement and cooperation of the flock owner during a time that, I recognise, is incredibly difficult for them, the staff and their families. My Department has also implemented disease control zones around the premises, and the necessary surveillance activities are ongoing. All flock keepers within the disease control zones will be contacted with information on the restrictions and the requirements that have been laid down by my Department for the moving of poultry and poultry-related products. A movement-licensing centre has been established to facilitate those movements. My departmental officials, including the Chief Veterinary Officer, remain in close contact with colleagues across the other jurisdictions and will keep key stakeholders in the industry updated.

On the next steps and communications, I will keep in regular and close contact with my colleagues in Great Britain and the Republic of Ireland. I will ensure that updates are provided as necessary to my Executive colleagues and, very importantly, to the Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee in the first instance. I will be happy to return to the House if there are any further significant and serious developments in the time ahead. My officials will continue extensive ongoing engagement with officials across all jurisdictions. They will also ensure regular and timely updates to all our key stakeholders. My Department will also continue to deploy wide-ranging communications, reminding all flock keepers of the necessity of adhering to high levels of biosecurity.

Comprehensive biosecurity guidance is available on the DAERA website, and adhering to that protects against disease spread. It emphasises the importance of maintaining high biosecurity standards to help to reduce the risk of transmission of those diseases. Continued vigilance is paramount, and it is essential that private veterinary practitioners and flock keepers remain alert to any unusual symptoms and immediately report such symptoms to a veterinarian or directly to DAERA. Further detail, including photos of clinical signs, is also available on the DAERA website.

We must continue to convey clear messages of maintaining high biosecurity standards and promptly report any unusual symptoms in order to help protect Northern Ireland's farms and the wider industry. At this time, I request that Members assist us in disseminating key messages about maintaining vigilance and high biosecurity standards and about the need for farmers to report any unusual symptoms immediately. Taking such steps will further help ensure the protection of our livestock and of the agriculture sector, which is vital to our economy.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

I thank the Minister for his statement. Our hearts go out to any farming family affected by this particular outbreak, or by any outbreak that affects their flock or herd, as the reinstatement of their business will take a number of months. There was a particular anomaly previously, whereby, from notification to verification of the disease, there was a lapse period in which compensation was not necessarily available to the farmer. Has that anomaly been rectified?

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

As I outlined, this has been reported to the House as a suspected case, because we still need to get the results back from the National Reference Laboratory (NRL). We therefore have to follow a process. If, however, a notifiable strain of avian influenza is confirmed on a premises, compensation, based on current market value, will be payable for all poultry culled at the Department's direction.

Robbie Butler (UUP, Lagan Valley)

Like the Minister and the Member who spoke before me, I say that the depopulation of the farm is happening as we speak. Our thoughts are with the farmer, because that will have wide-ranging implications.

The Minister said that this is the first outbreak in Northern Ireland since February 2025. There have, however, been outbreaks in England and in other jurisdictions. Can the Minister outline whether any cross-jurisdictional intelligence gathering is going on to try to prevent outbreaks and to better coordinate earlier identification of outbreaks in other jurisdictions?

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

Significant engagement occurs North/South and east-west by veterinary service colleagues in the Department. I reassure the Member that that engagement is ongoing. I have also contacted my ministerial counterpart in the South, Martin Heydon, and I spoke to the Scottish and Welsh Ministers on Sunday at the Anuga conference in Germany, so there is significant engagement ongoing. There is a real need for us all to accentuate the importance of biosecurity, because that is our best protection method against the risk of avian influenza.

I echo the comments made so far about our concern for the affected premises. In some ways, it is an exemplar premises, practising the best biosecurity methods. That, however, emphasises the challenges that we face, the impact that an outbreak can have and the need for us collectively to do what we can to try to protect agri-food in Northern Ireland from avian influenza.

Declan McAleer (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

I thank the Minister for his statement. As a rep for the local area, I have been speaking to poultry farmers, who are extremely concerned about the outbreak and the potentially devastating consequences that it will have. I note from your statement, Minister, that a full depopulation commences today that may involve up to 20,000 birds.

I will double back to support measures. Can you confirm that financial support will be provided to the farmer affected, given the huge and devastating impact that the outbreak will have on that farmer's business and livelihood?

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

There will be compensation payable for the birds that are culled at the Department's direction. We will also cover the cost of the initial disinfection that takes place. The depopulation will start late this morning. Approximately 23,000 birds will be depopulated, but I repeat the assurance that we will cover the cost of the birds that are being depopulated at our direction and also the initial disinfection cost.

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

I thank the Minister for his statement. Can he detail the budget that he has available to deal with this type of outbreak? What departmental mechanism is in place to deal with crisis incidents and to support financially those who have been adversely affected across sectors, be that the horticultural sector, the poultry sector, the fishing sector or others?

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

The budget position in-year in Northern Ireland is extremely challenging. I understand that there will potentially be only one monitoring round coming up, which will be in December, so the challenge will be to meet the costs out of that. I give the Member and the House an assurance, however, that we will meet the costs. That means that it will be tough for us internally, but it is important that we meet the costs of compensation, because there is a significant impact on the premises holder.

The veterinary service is adept at responding to such crises and has been very prompt in dealing with this, to the extent that it was meeting at 8.00 am on Sunday to deal with the issue, and it will continue to work through this. It is important that the Department, collectively, supports the agri-food industry. I am proud of the veterinary service and the work that it does, but it is important that Members accentuate the importance of biosecurity.

John Blair (Alliance, South Antrim)

I thank the Minister for the statement. I am also thinking of those impacted on at the infected site; I put that on the record. However, will the Minister inform us or remind us, as the case may be, whether there is a legal requirement for all bird keepers to register their birds and whether there will be ongoing communications about registration?

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

Thank you, John. It is a mandatory legislative requirement that all keepers of birds, except keepers of pet birds that are kept in the owner's home, must be registered with DAERA. That registration enables DAERA to communicate with bird keepers quickly to manage potential disease outbreaks. Registered keepers will receive important information on biosecurity rules and disease outbreaks to help protect their flocks from the threat of avian influenza. Having information on the location of all susceptible kept birds also allows for more effective surveillance in disease control zones and, for trade purposes, enables disease-freedom requirements to be met following an outbreak of disease in Northern Ireland. The message is that, if you are not registered, do it today.

Nicola Brogan (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

I thank the Minister for his statement. As he will know, I am a representative of Omagh. This is, obviously, concerning for our poultry farmers and farmers across the constituency, so I am glad to see that swift action has been taken.

The Minister mentioned two temporary control zones: one of 3 kilometres and one of 10 kilometres. Diseases do not understand borders, so I am glad that the Minister is working with his counterparts in the South on this. Are the temporary control zones still in effect since Sunday? How long will they be in place?

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

They are still in effect. We will take advice from the Chief Veterinary Officer on any movements to relax those restrictions. There are two zones in place, and it is important that we manage movements in the area so that we can restrict the spread.

Avian influenza does not respect borders. That is why it is important that we cooperate North and South. The Chief Veterinary Officers from the North and South are cooperating on it, and I have reached out to my counterpart in the South. They have issued messaging around the issue down South.

It is important that I came to the House to update Members on the issue. If the issue occurs again, I will write to the Committee and keep it apprised. As we move into the winter months, there is a likelihood that we may see more of this, so it is important that we accentuate the importance of biosecurity.

Danny Donnelly (Alliance, East Antrim)

I thank the Minister for his statement. Obviously, this is a serious issue. How can the spread of disease be minimised?

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

The spread of the disease can be minimised primarily through the biosecurity measures that I have outlined. They are available on the DAERA website. The premises that have been affected have excellent biosecurity, to the extent that anyone coming in and leaving the premises has to go through relevant checks. It is important that that is done at all premises. People also need to be conscious of the risk of ingress that can occur during storms. It is important that people evaluate their premises now, when storms are not occurring, to make sure that they are protected against water ingress and access from rodents. They are key issues on which we can take action.

Áine Murphy (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I thank the Minister for his statement. How does DAERA intend to escalate disease control measures, if the outbreak intensifies? Supplementary to that, how will those steps ensure that the wider poultry industry is not affected?

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

We can take a number of steps in addition to those that I have outlined. We will take advice from the Chief Veterinary Officer. There are additional actions that we can take to make Northern Ireland an entire control zone. We have done that previously. We can take that step, but we need to do so in the context of the risks that we face. We can also issue a housing order. We can step through those. I will be advised by officials in that regard, and officials will continue to engage with industry on the issue.

I am conscious of the impact on the industry. That is why we continue to engage with it. The best thing that we can do collectively is to accentuate the important point around biosecurity and, as a Department, fulfil our duty regarding compensation for the birds that are culled at our direction.

Diana Armstrong (UUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I thank the Minister for his statement. I share Members' concern, and I think of the producer affected.

Minister, the vaccination of poultry and most captive birds against avian influenza is not currently permitted. Why does DAERA continue to prohibit avian flu vaccination for poultry in Northern Ireland despite the threat of outbreaks and the economic importance of the poultry industry?

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

Thank you, Diana. It is DAERA's policy not to permit the vaccination of birds outside of zoos as an immediate disease control response. Stamping out is the most effective means of controlling an outbreak. A high standard of biosecurity, separation of poultry from wild birds and careful surveillance for signs of disease also remain the most effective means of controlling the disease and protecting other animals. Due to the role of zoos in global conservation, the vaccination of zoo birds is permitted in Northern Ireland. To date, no zoo birds have been vaccinated.

The UK continues to invest in avian influenza research. We monitor current vaccine usage in Europe and globally, as well as the effectiveness of any disease control measures taken, including vaccine deployment. The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA), in conjunction with the Veterinary Medicines Directorate, will continue to monitor the development and availability of vaccines for their utility in preventing and responding to avian influenza outbreaks as they are put forward for market authorisation by vaccine manufacturers. Any future decisions on disease control measures, including vaccination, will be based on the latest scientific and veterinary advice.

Andrew McMurray (Alliance, South Down)

I thank the Minister for his statement. Minister, what signs of avian flu should a keeper of birds look out for?

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

The main clinical signs of HPAI in birds are a swollen head; blue discolouration of the neck and throat; loss of appetite; respiratory distress; diarrhoea; fewer eggs being laid; and increased mortality. Low pathogenic avian influenza (LPAI) is usually less serious. It can cause mild breathing problems, but affected birds will not always show clear signs of infection. The severity of LPAI depends on the type of bird and whether a bird has other illnesses.

Timothy Gaston (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Minister, we know that HPAI is caused by an airborne virus. Concerns have been raised with me that it has taken the Department until today to cull the remaining birds on-site. The delay may have allowed the virus to spread, especially during the storm, due to the ventilation in poultry houses. Poultry farmers tell me that the Department is short-staffed and slow to respond. Why has it taken four days to depopulate the remaining birds on that site?

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

Mr Gaston, gas has arrived on-site, and depopulation is occurring this morning. I thank veterinary service staff for their work on that. The situation on the affected site is challenging, but depopulation work is under way.

William Irwin (DUP, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Minister for his statement. My thoughts are with the farmers involved. While farmers will be compensated for their birds, there is no compensation for loss of income, which is a big issue for them. Loss of income can be very detrimental to a business.

Given that there have been no outbreaks of bird flu in Northern Ireland since February 2025, do we have any idea of the source of infection? For instance, are there any outbreaks in the neighbouring jurisdiction of the Republic of Ireland?

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

On compensation, we are guided by the Department's legal vires. As I have outlined, we will compensate farmers for the birds that are culled at our direction and for the initial disinfection of premises.

The wider issue of how the outbreak has occurred highlights the challenges posed by avian influenza. It is a real issue for us. Biosecurity is important, but businesses operating an exemplar premises with the highest biosecurity can still be affected by the disease. The veterinary service will continue to investigate the outbreak, and we will continue to do our work of depopulating the site. Collectively, we can send a message that biosecurity is important and it is important to adhere to the advice that is issued.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

That concludes questions on the statement. We will take our ease for a few moments while we find the Chair of the Finance Committee.

Executive Committee Business

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

The next item of business is a motion to approve a statutory rule (SR).

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

I beg to move

That the Coronavirus Act 2020 (Registration of Deaths and Still-Births) (Extension) (No.2) Order (Northern Ireland) 2025 be approved.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

The Business Committee has agreed that there should be no time limit on the debate. I call the Minister to open the debate on the motion.

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

Go raibh maith agat, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle.

[Translation: Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.]

As Members will be aware, the order seeks to extend powers introduced in the Coronavirus Act 2020 relating to the registration of deaths and stillbirths for a further six months from 24 September 2025 to 24 March 2026.

The specific powers included in the order concern the way that the registrations are conducted. First, they enable individuals to choose to register a death or stillbirth remotely. Although they can opt to come to a registration office in person, the provisions give the next of kin a choice to do it over the telephone in their own environment, recognising that it can be a hugely stressful and distressing time for family members. Secondly, the powers enable participants in the registration process to exchange important documents electronically between doctors and the registrar and between the registrar and the undertaker. Those exchanges can happen electronically, lessening the burden on family members.

It will be clear to the Assembly why the provisions were important in the context of the pandemic. The temporary changes to the registration process reduced the need for face-to-face contact for grieving and, sometimes, vulnerable members of the public and for registration staff. They enabled the registration system to continue to operate even when their services were, sadly, under significant pressure.

In the five years that have passed since the start of the pandemic, those arrangements have become the normal means by which the vast majority of registrations take place. They have helped the registration process to be more empathetic and efficient, and they carry the support of stakeholders. Most important, the provisions ease the burden on grieving members of the public. When someone is coming to terms with the death of a loved one, it is right that we should not burden them unnecessarily. While offering them a choice about how to register a death and conducting some of the paperwork electronically might seem like a small thing, it can make a big difference. In short, although the powers were introduced as the pandemic took hold, they have become the established means by which deaths and stillbirths are registered, and they have helped the registration service to become more empathetic, more modern and more efficient.

Given the positive effect of the provisions, it is right that we should make the temporary powers permanent rather than continue to depend on the Coronavirus Act. The Deaths, Still-Births and Baby Loss Bill, which recently completed its Committee scrutiny, will provide for the electronic transfer of documents between stakeholders and for the registration of deaths and stillbirths by telephone. The Bill will also enable me to progress a baby loss certificate scheme that recognises the suffering of families who endure the pain of pregnancy loss before 24 weeks. Today's extension order will consequently provide the time required for the Assembly to consider the Bill and, I trust, make permanent the temporary powers of the Coronavirus Act.

In bringing the extension order, I recognise that it is not desirable to continue to depend on the powers of the Coronavirus Act. However, I hope that the Assembly will be reassured by our determination to end the use of the orders by the work that is under way to make the relevant powers permanent, and that they will look favourably on the motion. Should the extension not be approved today, the existing powers will fall, requiring a return to pre-COVID death and stillbirth procedures. Relatives would again be required to attend registration offices, irrespective of their personal circumstances, and to transport paper forms between doctors, registration staff and undertakers. As set out in earlier debates on those matters, that would be a retrograde step that is not in the interests of the public, the registration service or funeral directors. I hope that the Assembly will concur.

I consequently recommend a further extension of the powers included in the order. They have enabled the provision of a modern, empathetic registration service over the past five years. By extending the provisions today, we will be able to continue to provide that service, which has been welcomed by stakeholders and creates space for permanent legislation to be put in place. I commend the order to the Assembly.

Matthew O'Toole (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

I will reflect on the Committee for Finance's deliberations on this secondary legislation. The Committee has had written and oral briefings on the legislation and the Department's work on several occasions in the past. The Committee previously agreed a number of statutory rules made under the provisions of the Coronavirus Act 2020, which relate to recording deaths and stillbirths. I note that the extensions, provided for by the statutory rules, will be rendered unnecessary, as the Minister said, when the Deaths, Still-Births and Baby Loss Bill receives Royal Assent. I am delighted to confirm that the Committee has completed its report on the Bill. Hopefully, the Minister will give us the date for its Consideration Stage. The Committee is keen for that to be brought to the House as soon as possible.

On 10 September 2025, the Committee agreed that it was content with the proposed statutory rule and to extend the temporary provisions under the Coronavirus Act until 24 March 2026. The Department has indicated that the Bill will have completed its legislative process by that time, and no further extensions will be required. The Committee considered the statutory rule on 1 October 2025. The Examiner of Statutory Rules recommended that the rule be approved by the Assembly.

As we hope this is the last time that the regulations will be brought to the Assembly, I thank the departmental officials for keeping the Committee abreast of the laying of regulations and the development of the Deaths, Still-Births and Baby Loss Bill. I put on record a particular acknowledgement of our erstwhile colleague Mr Paul Frew MLA, who is most assiduous in following these matters, to put it diplomatically, and it is somewhat strange that he is not here to debate the rules. I thank him for his contribution and the close attention that he has paid to these matters over the past number of years. Hopefully, we will have primary legislation on the statute books very soon. I acknowledge the good collaborative working between the officials, the Minister and the Committee to progress the Deaths, Still-Births and Baby Loss Bill. It is a positive piece of legislation, particularly as Baby Loss Awareness Week starts either tomorrow or on Thursday. It is a positive example of the Committee, Minister and officials working together. The Committee supports the motion to approve the regulations.

Diane Forsythe (DUP, South Down)

I will make a point that, as the Chair said, has been consistently made by my colleague Paul Frew — we are thankful for his time on the Finance Committee, and he has moved to Chair the Justice Committee — which is that we are disappointed that, some four years on from the pandemic, we still operate under the rules of coronavirus regulations, and we would like to see them removed as soon as possible. It is disappointing to be here for another extension. However, we fully accept that the regulations for the electronic registration of deaths and still births are good, practical law, which, as the Minister outlined, helps to keep the process efficient and reduce the trauma for families at a difficult time.

I thank those who have worked in the Minister's Department and the General Register Office for bringing forward the legislation at pace and being available to the Committee at every opportunity. Also, in Baby Loss Awareness Week, it is great to see an extension to include the baby loss certificates when the legislation passes. We remember all those lost babies and pray for the families throughout this week, and we are there for them throughout the rest of the year.

The DUP supports the extension in the expectation that it will be the last one. We welcome the fact that permanent legislation has been brought forward.

Deirdre Hargey (Sinn Féin, Belfast South)

I thank the Minister for bringing the motion to the House. As other Members have said, it is progressive legislation that was brought in during COVID, and its functions will be made permanent because of the moves that the Minister has made. It is just that the moves have taken place during Baby Loss Awareness Week. The Committee heard a lot of the lived experience of parents who have suffered the loss of a baby, and the addition to the permanent legislation, which will include a baby loss certificate scheme, has been welcomed by those parents and, more generally, the public. It is good that we have progressed to this stage, and I hope that we will see the progressive legislation made permanent without further delay.

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

I thank the Members who commented on the order, and I welcome their remarks. I also thank the Chairman and the members of the Finance Committee for scrutinising the order.

As Members reflected, our objective in bringing forward the order is to continue to provide a registration service that meets the needs of the public and allows time for the permanent legislation, in the form of the Deaths, Still-Births and Baby Loss Bill, to replace existing Coronavirus Act provisions. The Chair asked when the Bill's next stage will take place. I expect Consideration Stage to take place later this month. How we move forward will then be in the hands of the Assembly, but, with a fair wind behind us, I hope that the Bill's legislative journey in the Assembly will be completed around December.

As many Members commented, it is fitting that, as we enter Baby Loss Awareness Week, we are moving forward with legislation that will help families in those awful times to mark the loss of their baby.

Linda Dillon (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I appreciate the Minister's taking an intervention. You mentioned Baby Loss Awareness Week, which begins on Thursday. Will the legislation provide for backdating to ensure that mothers and families who lost babies in the past are able to get a baby loss certificate? Will that be at least considered as part of the legislation?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

I thank the Member for her intervention. Yes, that will be part of the legislation. It is only right and proper that we do that.

In conclusion, a number of Committee members thanked Mr Frew. I thought that you were going to say that you were thankful that he had moved on.

[Laughter.]

Maybe you were just thinking it. I also thank Mr Frew for his contribution to the Committee. He always had clear views on the use of the Coronavirus Act. I share some of those views. We have to move beyond the Coronavirus Act in that regard, and the legislation is now in place to do so.

I commend the order to the House.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved:

That the Coronavirus Act 2020 (Registration of Deaths and Still-Births) (Extension) (No.2) Order (Northern Ireland) 2025 be approved.

Private Members' Business

Órlaithí Flynn (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I beg to move

That this Assembly recognises the importance of a regional mother-and-baby unit to support mothers with postpartum mental health issues; acknowledges that such a unit would enable mothers to remain with their babies while accessing specialist inpatient care; notes that giving birth can be one of the most fulfilling and joyous times in a mother's life; further notes that some mothers experience serious mental health challenges after birth, including postpartum psychosis; affirms that mothers deserve access to inpatient care that allows them to stay with their babies while receiving the support that they need; further acknowledges that we remain the only part of these islands without a dedicated mother-and-baby unit; expresses concern at the ongoing lack of provision; calls on the Minister of Health to provide an update on the current business case for the establishment of a mother-and-baby unit; and further calls on the Minister to put in place interim measures, including a dedicated ward with staff trained in conditions such as postpartum psychosis, to ensure that mothers in crisis can access appropriate support until that unit is developed, and to engage with his ministerial counterpart in the Department of Health in Dublin to ensure that services in that unit will be available to support mothers and babies throughout Ireland.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

The Business Committee has agreed to allow up to one hour and 30 minutes for the debate. The proposer of the motion will have 10 minutes in which to propose and 10 minutes in which to make a winding-up speech. Two amendments have been selected and are published on the Marshalled List, so the Business Committee has agreed that 30 minutes will be added to the total time for the debate.

Órlaithí, please open the debate on the motion.

Órlaithí Flynn (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Go raibh maith agat, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle.

[Translation: Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.]

The motion calls for the urgent establishment of a dedicated mother-and-baby unit (MBU) here in the North of Ireland. It is about compassion, equality and the basic right of every woman to access the specialist care that she needs during one of the most vulnerable and transformative moments of her life. It is about ensuring that no mother ever again has to recover from birth in a psychiatric ward without her baby by her side.

Bringing a child into the world should be a time of joy, safety and dignity. It should mark the start of a hopeful new chapter in a mother's life, not one defined by fear, isolation or trauma. Sadly, however, for too many women in the North, that is not the reality. No mother should ever be separated from her baby in the days and weeks after birth, yet that remains the reality for women in our communities who experience acute perinatal mental illness. Those women are separated from their newborn babies and placed in general psychiatric wards. That is not compassionate care. Rather, it is a system that is failing women at their most vulnerable.

Let me be clear about the severity of what we are dealing with. One in five women will experience mental health problems during pregnancy or after birth. That is very common. In the North, around 1,000 women each year will develop a severe postnatal illness, which can include postpartum psychosis, severe depression, anxiety and obsessive-compulsive disorder. Devastatingly, suicide is the leading cause of maternal death here, but with timely and appropriate care, such deaths are preventable.

I am thinking today about a particular family in my constituency of West Belfast who, tragically, have already experienced that type of loss. They lost a loved one to suicide not long after she gave birth to a baby. I try to put myself in that family's shoes and think about how they are feeling. As time passes, there is bound to be frustration about the lack of progress made on the establishment of the MBU. I therefore hope, for that family and all the families who have lost loved ones in that way and who are struggling, and for all the families who have gone through the experience of having someone placed in a psychiatric ward without their baby, that, when he responds to the debate, the Minister may give them a wee bit of hope about what comes next.

Women who have experienced postpartum psychosis have described themselves as feeling like prisoners, having been abandoned in a psychiatric ward without their baby. They have spoken about enduring isolation, confusion and trauma at the very moment that they should be bonding with their newborn child. To illustrate that point further, I will share some testimony. A young mother from Belfast reached out to me in the past week when she saw that today's debate was coming up. Her name is Leah, and I had not spoken to her before. She reached out to me to share some of her experience. Leah's case is very current, as she began going through the process a short number of months ago and is still going through it. I send her and her wee baby my best wishes. When she reached out to me, she explained that, very recently, when her baby was just three weeks old, she began to experience severe postpartum depression. She was told that it was just the baby blues and that she would be fine in a few weeks. A few weeks came and went, and, instead, her condition deteriorated. She became suicidal, lost the precious bond that she had formed with her baby and was admitted to the mental health unit at the City Hospital. That was the first time that she had ever been apart from her newborn baby.

In her own words, she described being forced to choose between stopping breastfeeding and starting to pump every four hours. Having to make what may seem like a very small decision, either to stop breastfeeding or to start pumping, imposes an unimaginable emotional burden and takes its toll on a woman who has just given birth to a baby and is already dealing with mental illness. That is on top of being separated from her baby.

She told me that the staff were very kind and very good to her. That is an important point to make. I know that the staff in that unit are very good to their patients, and that has to be recognised. Not all of them, however, are trained or equipped to manage a postpartum mental health crisis specifically. The Assembly's all-party group (APG) on women's health has heard from numerous mothers who had been through the similar experience of being placed on a general psychiatric ward. I previously spoke about the matter at Members' statements. They were placed beside a smoking area and did not have access to the one of the basics that a woman deserves, which is proper bathing facilities to get a bath after going through childbirth.

In 2025, the island of Ireland, North and South, remains without a specialist mother-and-baby unit. Not one exists anywhere on the island, and that is a shameful distinction when compared with England, Scotland and Wales, which provide dedicated therapeutic spaces where mothers can recover alongside their babies, supported by teams of perinatal psychiatry specialist nurses, nursery nurses, psychologists and occupational therapists. That is what best practice looks like, and it is what women here deserve.

We have been told — I am sure that we will hear an update on this from the Minister — that the Belfast City Hospital site has been chosen for a mother-and-baby unit and that work on the business case is well advanced. It is my understanding that the draft business case is now with the strategic planning and performance group (SPPG), which is very welcome, but I am hoping that we hear from the Minister and the Department today about a more definitive time frame for delivery. Women cannot wait for another five years. We heard of 2030 as a possible opening date, and that is simply indefensible. We remain cautious about short-term interim units, and we will get into a discussion on that with the UUP amendment. However, you do not want a short-term interim unit to become a good enough long-term solution. That is the problem with calling for that. What is clear is that we need to see some of that sort of action now to prevent further trauma being inflicted on women in those situations.

The Exeter MBU featured in the BBC 'Spotlight' programme shows how a temporary unit, although not perfect, can provide safe, specialist care that keeps mothers and babies together during recovery. Hopefully, that can be put in place while plans for a permanent facility progress. Interim measures are welcome but cannot replace a properly resourced specialist mother-and-baby unit. Anything less continues a legacy of neglect that we should all be determined to end.

There are legitimate questions about whether our system is meeting clinical and ethical standards of care for women with severe perinatal illness. Training remains inconsistent, especially among GPs, emergency staff and first responders. Equally concerning is the lack of reliable data. We do not know how many women in recent years have experienced postpartum psychosis or tragically died by suicide during or after pregnancy. That gap is not just a failure of record-keeping; it is a failure to fully value women's health and lives. We cannot change what we refuse to measure. Furthermore, we need to take a wider all-island view. Progress that is similar to ours is being made in the South. Their business case for a mother-and-baby unit at St Vincent's University Hospital, Dublin, is more or less ready to go but has not made it to the next stage, so we are still without a unit anywhere across the Thirty-two Counties.

We now have an opportunity and, indeed, a responsibility to do things differently. This issue sits within a broader picture of delay and underinvestment in women's health. We have multiple debates in the Chamber on women's health issues. It was endometriosis last week or the week before. We have had conversations around gynae stuff. Hopefully, there will be good announcements around that, and we look forward to hearing those. This is basically about giving women, and mothers in particular, the dignity, safety and care that they deserve after having their babies. It is so important for a mother and baby to have that period to nurture and bond. Mothers and their wider families deserve that type of healthcare.

I acknowledge and thank the groups and campaigners who have kept this issue to the fore, including clinicians, advocacy groups and family members. I am thinking of the maternal advocacy and support (Mas) project, the Maternal Mental Health Alliance, Action on Postpartum Psychosis, and journalists such as Marie-Louise Connolly, who continues to expose the reality that is faced by mothers. Their determination has ensured that this issue remains on the public and political agenda, but they should not have to fight so hard for something so basic. We now have the opportunity to put things right, to deliver a mother-and-baby unit on this island and to build compassionate perinatal mental health care.

Alan Robinson (DUP, East Londonderry)

I beg to move amendment No 1:

Leave out all after "remain the only part of" and insert: "the United Kingdom without a dedicated mother-and-baby unit; expresses concern at the ongoing lack of provision; calls on the Minister of Health to provide an update on the current business case for the establishment of a mother-and-baby unit; and further calls on the Minister to put in place interim measures, including a dedicated ward with staff trained in conditions such as postpartum psychosis, to ensure that mothers in crisis can access appropriate support until that unit is developed and to engage with his ministerial counterparts in Great Britain to ensure that services in that unit apply best practice to best support mothers and babies living in Northern Ireland."

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

Thank you. You have 10 minutes in which to propose the amendment and five minutes in which to make a winding-up speech. Please open the debate on amendment No 1.

Alan Robinson (DUP, East Londonderry)

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I thank the proposer of the motion. I will speak on the need for a regional mother-and-baby unit.

Bringing a child into the world is often described as one of life's most fulfilling, joyful experiences. I can think of the happiness of my wife and I when our little girl was born on New Year's Eve in Causeway Hospital. It is an emotion that I recall well of being overwhelmingly joyful, yet, for some mothers, it can also be a time of overwhelming emotional turmoil, fear and isolation. Postpartum mental health challenges, including the deeply distressing and frightening condition of postpartum psychosis, can arise suddenly and with devastating impact. Indeed, every year, around 35 women in the Province experience this condition. No mother should have to face such a crisis alone, and, crucially, no mother should be forced to choose between accessing life-saving treatment and staying with her baby.

We in this region remain the only part of the UK without a dedicated MBU, with us being told that an MBU will not be operational until at least 2030, even though it is a topic that has been recognised as a need as far back as 20 years ago. As of 2023, there were 22 accredited units in the UK — two in Scotland and one in Wales. You could therefore safely say that this is a shortfall in our healthcare system. Mothers here deserve the same level of support that is afforded to families elsewhere. My understanding is that there is no MBU in Ireland also, but work is under way. However, it appears that they too are no further forward than we are.

A mother-and-baby unit is a place where mothers can receive specialist expert inpatient care while remaining close to their babies, preserving that vital bond that is central to maternal recovery and infant well-being. Research states that some women feel lifelong trauma and guilt as a result of being separated from their newborn baby. Other research found that women who have been treated in MBUs recover better and feel more satisfied with their care, keeping mums together in a safe and supportive environment. The status quo, where mothers are placed in acute psychiatric wards separated from their newborns in settings that are neither designed nor resourced to meet their unique needs, just is not fair. Indeed, it is estimated that around 35 women will require hospitalisation every year for postpartum psychosis. It is deeply tragic for those women. The death in 2018 of Orlaith Quinn, who took her own life on a ward at the Royal Jubilee, saw the coroner call for an MBU in 2022. We cannot see another tragic case such as that.

I look forward to the Minister updating the Assembly on the current status of the business case for establishing a mother-and-baby unit at Belfast City Hospital. We submitted an amendment as some members of a local peer support group support the need for the Minister to put in place an interim measure that will provide specialist care while the unit is being created. Some others would prefer women to travel to the mainland for gold standard care, but an interim measure cannot be a replacement for the funding and building of a specific MBU. Some others suggest that a dedicated ward, properly staffed and properly treating conditions like postpartum psychosis, would be better that what we currently have on offer.

Mothers deserve better than what is currently offered, families deserve better, and our newborn babies in their first few days in this world deserve better.

Alan Chambers (UUP, North Down)

I beg to move amendment No 2:

Leave out all after "lack of provision;" and insert: "regrets that the clinical advice is that there is no safe way to provide an interim arrangement; calls on the Minister of Health to provide an update on the current business case for the establishment of a mother-and-baby unit; and further calls on the Minister to commission a short, urgent review of possible alternative options before finally committing to the proposed site at Belfast City Hospital."

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

Thank you, Alan. The Assembly should note that the amendments are mutually exclusive, so, if amendment No 1 is made, the Question will not be put on amendment No 2. Alan, you will have 10 minutes to propose amendment No 2 and five minutes to make a winding-up speech. All other Members will have five minutes. Please open the debate on amendment No 2.

Alan Chambers (UUP, North Down)

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I welcome the opportunity to speak on this important topic and to once again place on record my party's strong support for the establishment of a regional mother-and-baby unit here in Northern Ireland. As the motion states, bringing a new life into the world should be among the most joyous and fulfilling experiences that a person can have, yet, for some women, that joy is reduced by the devastating impact of mental ill health. Poor mental health during pregnancy or after birth is not particularly rare and, thanks to the efforts of some people and organisations, there is now much greater awareness, but, for a small number, the symptoms are so acute that they require inpatient care. It is for those women and those families that a unit here in Northern Ireland would be so important.

There is not an MLA in the Chamber who believes that giving new mums the impossible choice of either being admitted to a general mental health ward and separated from their baby or travelling much further afield to access specialist support is really the right or even humane thing to do. Either option is deeply distressing and compounds trauma at a time when those new mums are already fragile. That is why such a service cannot come a day too soon.

To be fair, progress has been made, and it is right to acknowledge it. Under former Health Minister Robin Swann, the Department of Health delivered a regional perinatal mental health service. That was a major step forward that brought specialist community teams into each of our health and social care trusts. For the first time, we had a dedicated structure of expertise and care specifically for women who were experiencing perinatal mental health difficulties. That service is now well embedded, with professionals providing invaluable outreach and support across maternity and mental health settings. It represents a tangible, life-changing improvement. I pay tribute to former Minister Swann and the many clinicians, campaigners and families who championed that cause for years. Today, under the drive of the current Health Minister, that foundation is being built upon. He has made clear his determination to complete the journey to ensure that the regional service is complemented by an inpatient mother-and-baby unit that is capable of providing the highest level of care when community support is no longer sufficient.

While I note the call for "interim measures" to be developed, which I would dearly wish to see if they were deliverable, in reality, the clinicians who are the experts in this field have already said that there is no way to do that. It is not just a case of repackaging a few beds or a ward and putting a new sign outside the front door. This is an incredibly complex and sensitive area of healthcare, and a wholly inadequate or wrongly located unit could even prove to be worse than no unit. In that regard, I will listen to the experts.

We should keep an open mind on how to do things more swiftly, where it is safe and feasible to do so. That is why we have tabled amendment No 2, which asks for a rapid review of all options. The way that I see it, there are only two possible outcomes: ether a chance to do something different will emerge, or the assessment will tell the Minister to stay on the current track. Either option will not see time lost, but, crucially, might see some time gained. We have seen, in recent years, that progress is possible. Now, we must deliver this final but important step of a regional unit as quickly as we can, whilst always keeping the safety of mums and babies to the absolute fore.

Sian Mulholland (Alliance, North Antrim)

It is lovely to hear a nod to how motherhood can be joyful and fulfilling. That sometimes gets lost in these discussions. I thank Ms Flynn for recognising it.

I speak as a mummy of three, who was one of the one in five, and also as an MLA for North Antrim, where too many mothers face this time with fear rather than joy because specialist help is either too far away, too hard to reach or simply not there at all. In February 2024, I used my maiden speech in the House to highlight the lack of an MBU; in May 2024, I highlighted the issue of perinatal mental health during Mental Health Awareness Week; and, in March 2025, I engaged with the Minister about this very issue. Therefore, I look forward to hearing what has changed and what improvements have been made.

Addressing perinatal mental health is not just about adequate medical care; it is about ensuring that mothers and their babies receive compassionate, comprehensive support during such a vulnerable time, and there has to be equity with what is available in other regions.

The motion is simple, humane and about human beings, so I will ground my contribution to the debate in lived experience, about which I have already engaged with the Minister. I have a constituent called Laura who gave birth to a healthy baby girl in February 2023. Two days later, she was detained to a general psychiatric ward. She would not spend a full night at home with her daughter for over seven weeks. On the ward, communication was fragmented. So many teams were involved that it was often unclear who was responsible for the decision-making, who could authorise visits and who could tell Laura whether she could take a short walk outside.

Visits with her baby were supervised, limited to one hour and sporadic; they were not routine. That is not how to help a mother bond with her child, especially a mother who is in the grip of a mental health crisis.

Breastfeeding became an exhausting obstacle course. She had a lack of access to sterile pumps, no proper storage and no process for accessing basic equipment. At one point, Laura was sterilising her own kit in a staff microwave, albeit whilst being supervised. She had to call the trust breastfeeding support team herself to get help during visiting hours. She was given the wrong supplements, or her supplements were forgotten on medication rounds, because they just did not think of the postpartum supplements that a mother needs.

The physical recovery expected after birth, such as having access to a bath to help with healing and cleaning, a bin to dispose of used maternity pads and a clean space to change, became just a series of indignities, but Laura said that the hardest part of being separated from her baby was that it directly harmed her recovery. She struggled to build an emotional connection and learn the day-to-day skills of caring for her newborn. She felt that she did not know her daughter at all and that she was not fit to be her mother. At her lowest, she even considered giving up her parental rights. That is the very opposite of what is needed to help new mums with mental health issues. Those little babies need their mums, but mums also need their babies, especially during that time.

As things stand in Northern Ireland, if a mother becomes severely unwell after birth, she is likely to be admitted to a general psychiatric ward without her baby. The case for an MBU has been well established. It is evidence-based care. There has been progress, with all five health trusts now having a specialist community perinatal mental health team in place. That is a foundation that we should welcome, but mothers in crisis cannot wait for a capital project alone.

Minister, from Laura's experience, the measures that they need are practical and potentially life-saving, and not all of them cost money. For example, a dedicated warded space within mental health services where postpartum mothers are not treated as an inconvenience; routine — not rationed — visits with babies; safe, private space for feeding and family contact; baby-friendly facilities embedded in the ward environment; proper breastfeeding support on wards; a single point of contact for every mother to coordinate that care and reduce anxiety; and data that counts what matters. Postpartum admissions have to be recorded. They have to be reported so that services can plan and measure progress. Standardised reporting and recording within and across trusts are key to building up a full picture.

The motion is more about giving frightened new mothers the care that helps them heal and giving a tiny baby the secure bond that shapes a lifetime. Until that unit opens, we need to do everything that we can to make our existing wards kinder, safer and truly perinatal-ready, so that no mother is ever again asked to recover whilst apart from her baby.

Cara Hunter (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

I welcome the opportunity to speak on the motion today and thank Órlaithí for her continued work on the issue.

I am in firm support of the motion, because it is about justice, health, dignity and the future of mothers and babies across the North. Giving birth can rightly be one of life's most fulfilling moments, yet, for too many, it is followed by anguish, fear and crisis. Postnatal depression, anxiety and, in extreme cases, postpartum psychosis strike swiftly without warning and without mercy. No woman should face that peril isolated and unsupported, but today, we face a glaring failure in our system. Northern Ireland remains the only part of these islands without a dedicated mother-and-baby unit. That means that, when a mother suffers a severe perinatal mental health crisis, she may be admitted to a general psychiatric ward, separated from her newborn and placed in an environment without the specialist training or facilities to meet her needs.

We heard the story recently about Shelley Browne. She was admitted to a general ward and separated from her baby for five weeks — a deeply distressing example but, sadly, not unique. We also recall the tragedy of Orlaith Quinn, who died by suicide just two days after giving birth. An inquest called her death "foreseeable and preventable" and recommended the establishment of a mother-and-baby unit in Northern Ireland. Those stories, sadly, are not anecdotes to be glossed over; they are warnings, and they cry out for urgent action.

Let me be clear about what, the SDLP believes, must happen. First, the Department must publish the long-overdue business case for a regional MBU, with full transparency on timescales, budgets and risk assessments. Many organisations from Action on Postpartum Psychosis, whose tireless advocacy has provided vital awareness and support for families, to Aware NI have called for immediate action.

Secondly, the Department must immediately allocate capital and revenue funding, with clear delivery timelines, so that the facility moves from idea to reality.

Thirdly, we must institute interim measures now. Let me be clear: such measures cannot become long-term measures, but it is vital that we take the necessary steps to support mothers and babies in the interim. Mothers in crisis must never face separation or inappropriate care while waiting for a permanent unit. One option that the Department should urgently consider is repurposing an existing empty ward as a temporary mother-and-baby unit. That option may not be perfect, but it would at least allow mothers and babies to remain together, which is so important. We have seen that done before in Exeter, where a temporary ward was successfully set up while a permanent mother-and-baby unit was being built and created.

Fourthly, we need cross-jurisdictional cooperation on these important matters. Mental illness respects no border. I urge the Minister of Health to coordinate with his counterpart in Dublin to ensure that, once established, the unit can serve mothers and babies across the island as needed. Specialist mother-and-baby units have a strong evidence base. They improve clinical outcomes, reduce trauma and protect the mother-infant bond, which is so important. We know that such units save lives.

The issue also exposes a wider crisis in women's health in Northern Ireland. There is no reliable record of the number of women diagnosed with postpartum psychosis or admitted to psychiatric wards in the postpartum period. We really do not know how many mothers and babies have been separated. There is no record of severe adverse incidents (SAIs) relating to maternal mental health. Perhaps most shockingly, there is no reliable record of how many women die by suicide in the year after giving birth. Data collection is truly vital when seeking to adequately address sensitive issues such as the one that we are discussing. It is unacceptable that that information is not being collected; indeed, it is unfathomable. We cannot allow bureaucratic delay, a lack of political will or poor record-keeping to stand between a suffering mother and the care that she and her baby so desperately need. Women who are already vulnerable and terrified should not be told to wait while the machinery grinds.

Every mother deserves to heal in the presence of their child. Every family deserves the certainty of knowing that, should a crisis strike or arise, there is a safe, specialist and compassionate place of care in our jurisdiction. There can be no more delay or excuses. We must deliver the regional mother-and-baby unit that mothers across the region so urgently deserve. We must take immediate steps to protect mothers and babies across the island.

Philip McGuigan (Sinn Féin, North Antrim)

Each year, 1,000 women develop a severe postnatal illness. It is estimated that around 35 women across the North experience postpartum psychosis: a severe, frightening and potentially life-threatening mental health emergency that devastates those women and their families. With the right treatment and support, women can fully recover, but getting that right treatment and intervention at the right time in the right environment is critical.

I acknowledge the ongoing work of the perinatal mental health care pathway. Its roll-out across trusts is a welcome development and a testament to the commitment of those who work in perinatal mental health. However, the second phase of that model — the establishment of a dedicated mother-and-baby unit — remains an outstanding commitment.

Postpartum psychosis is a mental health crisis that typically cannot be managed at home, especially when the mother is caring for a newborn baby. A dedicated mother-and baby-unit, with specially trained staff and integrated services, is crucial to ensuring that women receive the medical intervention and compassionate support that they need without being separated from their baby.

The recent BBC 'Spotlight' programme, 'Mums in Crisis', made the case for urgent action very effectively. I commend the courageous women and families who have spoken out about their experiences. Their voices have rightly brought the issue into the public eye and highlighted the devastating impact of inadequate support.

It is clear that the current system does not meet the needs of mothers in crisis.

Sinn Féin calls for the mother-and-baby unit to be delivered without further delay. We must ensure that mothers are not separated from their newborn babies while receiving mental health support. We need clear answers from the Minister today on the time frame for the unit's delivery. If, as previously stated, it remains a longer-term strategic objective, we must look at interim measures, such as having a dedicated ward with specialist staff, to ensure that mothers in crisis can access appropriate care now. As other Members have said, an empty ward could be repurposed as a mother-and-baby unit. Such a unit would keep mums and babies together in perhaps less than ideal conditions, but at least they would be together. Similar things have happened in Wales and in England, so, if the Minister thinks that that cannot happen, I really want to hear from him exactly why he believes that to be the case.

I commend Action on Postpartum Psychosis and other advocacy groups for the vital support and advocacy that they provide to women and families affected by the condition and highlight their call for tailored peer support to be embedded in care pathways. As other Members have said, we also need comprehensive data. It is essential that we capture data on the numbers affected and on treatments. As the Royal College of Psychiatrists (RCPsych) has said, the data gap needs to be addressed.

This is the second debate in just over a week on a serious illness that affects only women. As a man, I am embarrassed by that. In the North and, indeed, across the island, it is clear that we have a way to go to ensure that women's health issues are addressed and that women get the services that they desire. If the issue affected men, I suspect that the specialist unit would already have been built. That is a serious indictment of our health service.

I hope that progress on the mother-and-baby unit can be made in order to deliver that vital service, ensuring that women across the island of Ireland get the healthcare that they need and deserve.

Pam Cameron (DUP, South Antrim)

I thank the proposer of the motion for raising this really important issue today. I have been here for many years, so I know that we have had such discussions before. It really is time that we moved the subject on and time that women and their children received the appropriate care that they absolutely require. I fully support the motion.

We know that one in five women will experience mental health problems during pregnancy or in the first year after birth. It is distressing to realise that we do not appear to collect and produce data on that. That is really important, so I urge the Minister to deal with that issue in particular. With Encompass, we have great new systems in place, so there is more than enough opportunity to ensure that, going forward, we have the data to put the appropriate provision in place.

Sian Mulholland mentioned Laura Orr and how she has bravely talked about her experience. I will also touch on Laura's experience, because it is really important that mothers' testimony be heard in the debate. Laura gave birth to her lovely daughter in 2023. Sian outlined much of what Laura has gone through, which is pretty horrific, and I will not repeat it. I will point out, however, that Laura stated that being separated from her daughter in a psychiatric ward was the hardest aspect of her experience and that the act of separation directly affected her recovery. She said that it was almost impossible to build an emotional connection, acquire practical parenting skills and navigate the new phase of family life with ease. Laura felt as though she did not know her daughter at all and that she was not fit to be her mother. She felt that someone else would be better placed to take care of her daughter and, at one point, considered giving up her parental rights. That is horrific. It is not what we want to hear or read about, but, unfortunately, it happened in the recent past: it is experience from 2023.

I will quote Laura directly. She said that one of the things that she found most difficult was not knowing:

"how long we might be separated. How much of the first few weeks would I miss?"

Those are Laura's words. She continues:

"What milestones would go marked without me? It felt utterly surreal to be a bystander in my daughter's life, to parent vicariously through voice notes, photos and sporadic updates from the staff team. I was the only new mum on the ward. I had no one to advocate for what I needed: access to breastfeeding supplies, postnatal check-ups or even the time and space for the small but vital things that come with new motherhood. Postpartum mental ill health does not affect only one person. My admission affected my whole family and my husband in particular. He did not expect to be left alone with a newborn baby to take extended time off work to coordinate visits and updates amidst all the chaos of new parenthood. I cannot overstate how much a mother-and-baby unit would have helped my practical, emotional, physical, familial and mental well-being. It's not a luxury; it's a necessity."

It is important to put those words of a mother on the record.

I take the opportunity to raise another mother's experience: Alex Bartholomew. Her experience is from August 2018 — not very recent but the same problem in the past. Alex was admitted to an acute psychiatric ward. Her son was eight weeks old and still breastfeeding. During her time on the ward, Alex's symptoms worsened. Staying on a mixed ward heightened her anxiety, and it was unsafe for her children to visit. Throughout her three weeks on the ward, there was no safe place there for her to meet her children. Alex had been separated from her newborn son with no indication of when she might see him again. The baby was eight weeks old and had to be weaned overnight. Her toddler daughter asked daily where her mum was and has since undergone counselling for separation anxiety. In the first couple of days, she —.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

Pam, will you draw your remarks to a close, please?

Pam Cameron (DUP, South Antrim)

I will indeed. Those testimonies outline the importance of the mother-and-baby unit. I urge the Minister to act quickly on the issue to ensure that the services are put in place.

Nuala McAllister (Alliance, Belfast North)

I thank the proposer for tabling the motion. She has spoken at length about the issue in Committee and asked questions on it, and there are Members from all our parties who have done the same. I thank my colleague Sian for taking it on for us, because it is important that it is addressed as a cross-party issue.

I speak as a mum who was separated from her baby when they were just six days old, not for mental health reasons but for physical health reasons. Difficult as that was for me, I cannot imagine how difficult it is for any mother who does not have an end in sight. Those of us with physical issues have an end in sight and know when we will see our babies again. It was not acceptable in my case, and it is not acceptable in any other mother's case.

I pay particular tribute to Shelley Browne, who was on the 'Spotlight' programme. I have read a lot about her circumstances. It is such a sad and emotive issue that it is hard, at times, to listen and to take it all in, because we are so affected by it. We have to listen to women and mothers, however, because they have been going through this for years.

The 'Spotlight' documentary stated that around 100 women a year in Northern Ireland are admitted to adult psychiatric wards without their babies for similar care. We cannot get hold of the exact figures from the Department. We have submitted questions for written answer but have not had answers for some of the trusts. I understand that there may be issues relating to Encompass, but we need to move past using that as a reason to not give the data, because data informs policy. We know that the trusts receive around 250 referrals for community service. At this time, I pay tribute, as many Members have done, to the perinatal mental health team, who do fabulous work and look after women. Even the team has approached us to say that it does not always work and that specialised inpatient care is needed. In September, we tabled a question asking on an update on the business case. I was glad that the Department wrote back and said that there was confirmation of a six-bed facility with the business case due for completion by 22 September. Hopefully, the Minister has a further update on that.

Many Members have mentioned a number of organisations today. I pay particular thanks to Action on Postpartum Psychosis, which has been in touch with Members over the past few weeks to ensure that we are aware of all the information behind the scenes about the women who feel that they cannot reach out individually to elected representatives — maybe it is too fresh, raw and new for them — but want to do something. That organisation has been leading on the cause for many years. In 2008, there was a visit to England to look at mother-and-baby units there, and we are no further on.

My party does not feel that we can support the UUP amendment, because we are concerned about the issue that there cannot be an interim arrangement. Some of that is due to what was exposed — "highlighted", I should say — in the 'Spotlight' documentary, in particular about Exeter. We want a bit more elaboration on what exactly the clinical advice is. It is important that we listen to it. From our understanding and research, it appears that the clinical advice is perhaps not coming from the Royal College of Psychiatrists. If we are wrong, I am happy to be corrected. It is important that we get it right. There is a question around community treatment. Is that clinically the safest option, compared with interim measures? Those questions should be asked. Why are we asking those questions? We need to remember why we are talking about this: because mothers and their babies deserve the best care and resources and to be treated together and not miss out on those first crucial days, weeks and, for some, months.

Gerry Carroll (People Before Profit Alliance, Belfast West)

I thank the Member for West Belfast for tabling this important motion, and I thank everybody who has spoken in the debate. As we have heard, as many as one in five women experience mental health problems in pregnancy or after birth, and around 100 women are admitted to general psychiatric wards, with 35 being admitted for postpartum psychosis. In large part, that is because we do not have a mother-and-baby unit where women can receive the care that they need while pregnant or in the first 12 months of their baby's life. That is shameful. It speaks a lot to how we view and treat mental health generally and how women, in particular, are viewed and treated in the healthcare system and in society.

As has been stated, there are 22 mother-and-baby units in Britain, but Ireland has zilch. Successive Health Ministers have agreed that we need a mother-and-baby unit. Families have been waiting at least 20 years for that life-saving service, but, as with many things here, it is like waiting for Godot. It is an embarrassment and a source of shame that we have made no material progress. A mother-and-baby unit is a space where mothers can foster and build the mother-infant bond that would otherwise be harmed by separation. Separating women who need hospital admission for mental health from their young babies is inhumane. It is inhumane, yet that is what happens to dozens of women every year. Women have described that experience as "disorientating" and "traumatising".

As Members have said, the story of Shelley Browne, which was covered by 'Spotlight', speaks to that. Shelley was separated from her newborn baby and admitted to a general psychiatric hospital for five weeks. She reported feeling like a prisoner after giving birth. That is totally unacceptable. Other mothers refuse the hospital treatment that they need and instead rely on specialist community teams in order to stay with their newborn children. As has been mentioned, Orlaith Quinn died by suicide at the Royal Jubilee Maternity Hospital less than 48 hours after giving birth to her daughter. I believe that she had no previous mental health issues. Four years later, an inquest found that her death had been "foreseeable and preventable"; really cruel and shameful stuff. The same inquest also recommended that a mother-and-baby unit be established, yet, four years on, there is nothing.

The debacle of our absent mother-and-baby unit is yet another symptom of our mental health crisis. Our legacy of conflict, inequality and poverty means that people with poor mental health in the North suffer from more severe and debilitating conditions than in Britain and Ireland. Despite that well-known fact, we continue to spend less on mental health services than other regions, with £157 per capita spent in the North compared with £252 in England. Our mental health strategy needs £42 million of funding, but, last year, actual funding was just £5·9 million, a paltry sum. Part of that money delivered perinatal mental health teams across all five trusts, as has been stated, and the strengthening of those services is to be broadly welcomed. However, the Maternal Mental Health Alliance reports issues with it, including a lack of variation of services and a lack of implementation and funding of the mental health strategy. Each health trust receives more than 250 referrals for community perinatal services each year, but, because of staffing pressures, only 70 patients are accepted — women being failed again.

The interim temporary units are far from a perfect solution and are no substitute for a permanent mother-and-baby facility designed according to the needs of families, but an interim unit where mothers could receive the care that they need without being cruelly separated from their newborn child would provide some hope for mothers. Like the Member for North Belfast, I question the logic of the clinical advice that the Minister states for why they cannot be used. The business case for a mother-and-baby unit is almost a year overdue. I suspect that the Minister will tell us today that the case is finalised or close to being finalised but that any future funding depends on funding being identified. That is a line that is continuously rolled out by his Department. Strategies without funding are nothing more than abstract reports, and business cases without funding are absolutely meaningless. We do not need another review, however short.

Those who support families and newborn baby organisations, such as the Maternal Mental Health Alliance, the Maternal Advocacy and Support (MAs) project, the Royal College of Psychiatrists, Action on Postpartum Psychosis and TinyLife, have been campaigning on the issue for decades. Women and families tell us that we urgently need a life-saving mother-and-baby unit. It is time for the Health Minister to deliver on it, and it is time for the Executive to fund it.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

Minister, you have up to 15 minutes.

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

Deputy Speaker, thank you very much. A mother-and-baby unit is not overdue or long overdue: it is long, long overdue. Mr Robinson took us back 20 years: I will see his 20 years, and I will up it by 10. On 27 January 1995, my first son was born in the Royal Victoria Hospital. The first clinician to come in and examine his mother wanted to separate the two. They wanted to keep the baby, PJ, in the Royal and send Lynda to Knockbracken. I will never, ever forget the look of horror on her face. I found the strength from somewhere to call for a second opinion, and the two were not separated that night.

Sian Mulholland talked about the joy and the life-affirming experiences that women have when giving birth, and we should remember that. It is pretty joyous for dads as well, by the way. However, one in five is a huge number that we need to address. Please be in no doubt that I consider the absence of a dedicated mother-and-baby unit in Northern Ireland to be an absolutely glaring gap. As many Members have said, we are the only part of the UK without such a facility; indeed, there is none in the Republic of Ireland, and I will come back to that.

We have to go straight to the finances. Members are well briefed on the context in which I operate. The health service is under immense pressure, with unprecedented demand across all areas and resources stretched thin. The funding gap of £600 million is unprecedented, and, at the moment, I am finding it unmanageable. To establish a mother-and-baby unit, we will require significant capital and revenue investment, because it is not just about infrastructure; it is about staffing, training and ongoing service delivery. Let me be clear that I am fully committed to establishing a regional mother-and-baby unit.

We began with an outline business case, which was submitted to the Department by the Belfast Trust on 22 September this year. That led to economic and financial analyses. Normally, those are done first by the Belfast Trust and then by officials in my Department.

To minimise further delays, my officials are already working in parallel to review and assess the business case.

I want that to be done at pace, but I also want it to be done accurately. Members will be aware that the Department of Health and Health and Social Care have not exactly had a glowing record with capital projects in recent years. However, when the new, interim permanent secretary took up his post and came to see me, he asked, "What do you expect of me?". I said, "I will tell you in one word, Mr Farrar: urgency. I want to see urgency". My officials know that I do not believe that I have seen urgency — or sufficient urgency — in developing the business case for the mother-and-baby unit. One of the big delays was a debate over whether it should be a six-bed unit or a seven-bed unit. The conclusion is six beds.

The projected capital cost began at £11 million. As part of developing the business case, that has to come under review because we know that building costs continue to rise in the current environment. My officials recently secured Department of Finance approval to increase the delegated limit for capital projects. That involves hospital development, so the good news is that that means that time will not be spent on securing Department of Finance approval for the mother-and-baby unit project. However, following the announcement, in June, of the outcome of the UK-wide 2025 spending review, the Department of Finance has commissioned a Budget exercise that will determine the capital budgets for Northern Ireland's Departments for 2026-27 to 2029-30, so my ability to commit funding for any new capital projects will depend on my Department's capital allocation from that Budget process and the identification of sufficient additional recurrent funding to meet any additional resource departmental expenditure limit (DEL) costs associated with a capital project. We do not expect the draft Budget outcome to be confirmed until later this year, but it will inform the development of the Department of Health capital investment plan, and that will set out the projects to be taken forward over the next 10 years. However, let me emphasise again that, in my assessment, a mother-and-baby unit is right at the top of that list.

The trusts and my other arm's-length bodies have identified capital funding requirements of around £3 billion over the next four years. That is more than £1 billion higher than the capital funding that we expect to receive. That suggests that the capital budget outcome may only be enough to address inescapable pressures. I simply want to manage expectations here. While I hope that the Budget outcome agreed by the Executive will also allow some partially committed projects, including the mother-and-baby unit, to be taken forward as planned, the possibility remains that there will need to be some form of delay. The position will be confirmed as part of the development of the capital investment plan, with a number of other important projects also to be taken into account. Those include the Antrim Area Hospital mental health inpatient unit, the Cityside Health and Care Centre in the north-west and Altnagelvin's new emergency department. However, before I finally commit to the proposed Belfast City Hospital site, I have asked officials to undertake a short, urgent review of possible alternative options. I want to be absolutely certain that we have considered all possible options, and I stress that that will not cause a further delay. It will be done as work continues on the business case.

Sian Mulholland (Alliance, North Antrim)

Will the Minister give way?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

Yes.

Sian Mulholland (Alliance, North Antrim)

Minister, we all know the budgetary constraints that you operate under. In my communication with you on this particular case, I outlined some things and some changes that could be put in place that will not require capital. Is your Department considering those at this time?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for the intervention. Yes, we are considering them. We are considering all options.

On an interim fix, I will first put on record the best practice requirements, as defined by the Royal College of Psychiatrists. A mother-and-baby unit should be co-located with a mental health acute inpatient unit; located close to an obstetric-led maternity unit; capable of facilitating a six-bed unit, which is the current plan; capable of facilitating all clinical services on the ground floor; have dedicated direct access to secured and exclusive outdoor space, desirably gardens; and offer easy access to wider public open spaces and amenities. As I have said, the Department received clinical advice, including from the SPPG, that there is no such facility that we can use as an interim location. If Members want to challenge that and say that they know of a location, I am all ears. If Members want me to overrule clinical advice, I am very nervous — very, very nervous.

Gerry Carroll (People Before Profit Alliance, Belfast West)

I appreciate the Minister's giving way. I am not on the Health Committee, but I was previously. Has that evidence been publicly provided to the Health Committee? If not, can it be provided to the Health Committee and the Assembly?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

For clarification, does the Member mean the best practice from the royal college?

Gerry Carroll (People Before Profit Alliance, Belfast West)

The clinical evidence.

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I can check whether the clinical evidence has been provided to the Committee. Maybe the Chair of the Committee knows. If it has not been, we are more than happy to provide it, as well as the criteria, as defined by the royal college.

As I say, we are going to look in order to be sure and potentially rule out any other long-term venues.

Órlaithí Flynn (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Will the Minister give way?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

Yes.

Órlaithí Flynn (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Sorry, Minister, I do not want to take up too much of your response time. On the interim measures, have you looked at the model, which was referred to by a couple of Members, that appeared in the BBC 'Spotlight' programme — the temporary ward that was set up in Exeter? Have you or your officials looked at that?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

What I have asked the officials to do is broader than that. I have asked them to look at whether there is any possibility of an alternative venue that could be an interim base for a mother-and-baby unit, and the answer that I have got back is, "No, there isn't". If Members wish, I will ask them to look yet again, because it is an incredibly important issue to me.

Several Members mentioned the fact that we are not trapping the data. A group has been set up to try to look at how we start to do that. There had been some coding issues. I do not want to get too technical, and I certainly do not want to hide behind technicalities, but it seems that Encompass should be able to help us in achieving that goal.

Transferring a mother and baby to a specialist mother-and-baby unit elsewhere in the UK under an extra-contractual referral has been considered for some cases. However, many mothers have talked about the emotional stress of being separated from their families, friends and local support networks. Often, those considerations outweigh the potential benefits of receiving care further afield.

Members talked about building a mother-and-baby unit that would accept mothers and babies from across the island. I have asked officials to check whether there is any legal impediment to a child being transferred into our jurisdiction. I am not entirely confident that there is a solid answer to that, but it is certainly something to be explored. I confirm to Members that I explored with the previous Health Minister in the Government of Ireland the possibility of working together and, perhaps, tapping into the Shared Island Fund to secure a mother-and-baby unit. Unfortunately, those discussions did not produce a positive outcome. We are, therefore, basically on our own in that way.

I thank Members who have acknowledged that the Department has been working to strengthen community-based perinatal mental health services across all five of our geographic trusts. We have invested in community-based specialist services, ensuring that mothers can access support close to home. Alongside that, we have been upskilling clinical staff, including midwives, mental health nurses and health visitors, so that they are better equipped to identify and respond to perinatal mental health issues. For my family, one of the saviours — I use the word "saviours" deliberately — was the community psychiatrist nurse, who was incredibly important in the journey that my wife had to go on.

I ask the Members who tabled the motion to exert their influence over their party colleague the Minister of Finance, because we need the money — not just the capital, as I said — to make the mother-and-baby unit a reality. It is not just a clinical necessity but a statement of our values and of the extent to which we value one another. The Chair of the Health Committee made the point that if the issue were to affect only men, we would not be talking about a 20- or 30-year wait but, rather, would be celebrating the fact that the unit is in operation and would instead be examining and scrutinising how well it is delivering.

I will finish where I began. The mother-and-baby unit is not overdue or long overdue but long, long overdue. If it is the will of the House, I see no reason that we cannot get on with it, but doing that will take time. If we can find a way of doing it somewhere else more quickly, we will do that. If there is a way of putting in place an interim arrangement, I am open to that idea. I will not go against clinical advice, but I will ask the clinicians and others to have one final look at providing an interim solution. I have no confidence, however, that the answer will change from being one of it is not possible. My focus is on making the mother-and-baby unit happen, because I have a vested interest. For 30 years, mothers have been going through the experience that I witnessed in January 1995, and that, by definition, is simply not good enough.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

Thank you, Minister. I call Robbie Butler to make a winding-up speech on amendment No 2. Robbie, you have five minutes.

Robbie Butler (UUP, Lagan Valley)

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I thank the Minister for sharing so openly his familial testimony. It is not easy for anyone to share such testimony. We have also heard Members share testimonies today, particularly from constituents. Before I address the detail of the motion, I will take a moment to pay tribute to some of the people whom I consider to be the early champions of raising the profile of perinatal mental health. Long before it became a topic with which we wrestled more readily, they forced us to understand it better, stood their ground and demanded change, and the Minister has outlined where some of that change has happened in the past 10 years.

Back in 2016, a number of us were elected as MLAs, and we were collared — literally — by a determined group that refused to let perinatal mental health remain under the radar. They set sail firmly towards a future in which mothers in Northern Ireland could safely and humanely receive care without being separated from their babies and in which they would not have to fight for that clinical care. I acknowledge Lindsay Robinson and Nuala Murphy in particular, whose passionate lobbying from those early days helped shape the conversation on perinatal mental health, not just in the Chamber but across our health system and in communities. Their courage, persistence and honesty about their lived experience changed awareness for good. They allowed and gave confidence to pregnant mums all over Northern Ireland and more widely to speak up and demand better from us. I also pay tribute to Julie Anderson, the chair of the Royal College of Psychiatrists, for her partnership and leadership. Her steady guidance and professional expertise have helped keep the vision rooted in clinical best practice and compassion. Thanks to those early voices, we are no longer debating whether mothers should be supported to stay with their babies but, rather, how we make that a reality.

The level of awareness has changed, as has the tone, and the direction of travel is firmly set. I hope that the Minister's response to some excellent speeches today has given confidence that our amendment is not one of dither and delay. It really is not, because I assure Members that I would hold the Minister's feet to the fire on the issue. I think that I have some vires to speak about mental health. We need to establish the mother-and-baby unit, and we need to get it right, because we cannot fail those mums and their babies again. We tabled a common-sense amendment to a motion on what is a hugely important and sensitive matter. We really need to get the mother-and-baby unit done, but the direction needs to be rooted in deliverability and make clinical sense.

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for giving way. For clarity, I think that I said that the interim advice came from the SPPG, but I misspoke. The interim advice came from the Public Health Agency. Its lead on those issues is a clinician.

Robbie Butler (UUP, Lagan Valley)

Thank you, Minister. Hopefully, that will help some of the Members who have asked questions.

I thank Órlaithí Flynn, in particular, from the Sinn Féin team for tabling the motion. Órlaithí has walked the path with me since 2016 and has been relentless. Some of us move about portfolios, but Órlaithí has been on this one from the start. I thank Sinn Féin, and I hope that it does not see our amendment as taking away in any way from its motion. I think that it adds to the clarity, the purpose and the deliverability of what we are speaking about, because it is far too important to take any chances.

I will give a shout-out to the guys: Alan R, Alan C and Philip. We recognise the impact on mums and their babies, but dads and the wider family are also impacted on. That awareness around young men as they grow up to be the fathers that they should be is really important. We talked about that being picked up in the RSE education piece, because the awareness around perinatal mental health still needs to be driven.

Thanks to Cara Hunter and Pam Cameron who spoke passionately and gave instances of testimony of those who have suffered and where their testimony is driving the change that, hopefully, we are going to bring about.

Nuala McAllister's questions were good. It is one of the debates where we drop the politicking, and the questions are absolutely fair. They bring a focus to the reality of the fiscal situation, the clinical guidance and getting it right first time. I think that the Minister has given enough in his response today to convince Members that the amendment brought by the Ulster Unionist Party is not only fit for purpose but worth supporting.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

I call Cheryl Brownlee to make a winding-up speech on amendment No 1. Cheryl, you have five minutes. Over to you, Cheryl.

Cheryl Brownlee (DUP, East Antrim)

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I commend every Member who has spoken in the debate. It is a such a serious and emotional topic for us all, and I feel that there is real, genuine compassion.

Speaking freely today about perinatal mental health is critical. For all mothers, the birth of their baby is meant to be the best day of their life, but, sadly, the reality and the statistics show that one in five women will have mental health problems during pregnancy and, for five out of 100, that will be very serious. It is important to say that birth is not easy. For many of us, it does not really work out the way that we have dreamed about or how we have seen it in the movies or on social media. When that happens, the right support needs to be there for women and their babies at the most vulnerable time of their life.

Today, one thing that has hit me the most is the horrific thought that any mother would be separated from their baby and not know when they would be reunited. I cannot imagine anything worse. In this day and age, as my colleague said, our mothers, babies, fathers and families deserve so much more than that. The fact that Northern Ireland is the only region in the UK without a unit is simply unacceptable.

Many very good points were made in the debate, and I will touch on a few of them. Órlaithí detailed the experience of mothers being removed from their baby and having to choose between stopping breastfeeding or pumping, even being placed beside a smoking area and not being able to wash or get a bath. The inability to have those simple things is just horrific, and no mother should ever have to go through that at their most vulnerable time.

My colleague Alan Robinson raised the lifelong trauma and guilt of being separated from your baby. Research has shown that mothers and babies who are kept together through those times have a much better recovery rate. We all agree that that needs to happen. It is not an "if", a "maybe" or a "but": it needs to happen now. He also noted the very tragic death of Orlaith Quinn, who sadly took her life while experiencing postpartum psychosis. The coroner is calling for the mother-and-baby unit urgently. Alan also talked about the success of the regional perinatal mental health service, the amazing work that has happened and how we need to get it right and ensure that it is safe.

Robbie touched on the amazing work of campaigners. When I was pregnant during COVID, the 'Have you seen that girl?' movement was something that I constantly looked at on social media. It helped me during that time to understand that what I felt was common, other parents were going through it, and there was support there. Women who have come out and given their lived experience is critical for all of us in moving forward and making sure that we do the right things.

Sian said that motherhood is a fantastic time and a joyous time, but we also have to make sure there are kinder and safer facilities. It is those small practical things that we can do, without massive costs, to make the experience a lot better for parents. Cara drew attention to the need for clear records and data, which is needed not just in the Department of Health but throughout the government of Northern Ireland. We need clear data and records moving forward.

I welcome the Minister's raw honesty. He came to the Chamber today having experienced that in his life, and he will obviously understand the genuine need and the passion of us all. We understand the budgetary concerns, but, in some cases, it is a matter of life and death to ensure that parents and their babies have the right facilities in Northern Ireland. There was a discussion about clinical advice, and I am not on the Committee, but it would be good to touch base to ensure that that information is provided to it. The interim unit in south Wales was discussed. It is not ideal, but it is safe and provides the high level of 24/7 care that is needed. One of the things about postpartum psychosis is that parents do not sleep, and they need constant medical supervision to keep themselves and their baby safe.

I thank everyone who has spoken today. The lived experience of mothers from across Northern Ireland shows that they need the support of a dedicated mother-and-baby unit. We should not be discussing the issue in 2025. I fully support the motion.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

I call Linda Dillon. Linda, you have up to 10 minutes.

Linda Dillon (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Go raibh maith agat, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle.

[Translation: Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.]

I thank everyone who contributed to the debate on the motion today. One of the sad things that we are saying is that women and babies are still being failed on this island. In 2025, mothers are still forcibly separated from their babies, and I do not say that for the shock value; I say it because it is the truth, and it is a sad truth. I do not doubt everyone's commitment to changing the situation. I thank Sian and the Minister for sharing their personal experiences, which is not easy, but it shows that it affects every single person. People in the Chamber are affected by all the things that we talk about. Sometimes people forget that, but we are impacted on, and we have very real and relevant experiences. It is important to acknowledge that.

My colleague Órlaithí Flynn, Robbie and others spoke about the advocacy groups, clinicians and families who have kept the campaign alive, and that is very true. I pay tribute to my colleague Órlaithí Flynn, because I do not remember — I think that Robbie mentioned this as well — a time when she was not raising the issue of perinatal mental health, and specifically the need for a mother-and-baby unit. Even before we were elected, when we both worked for the party, I remember being at Sinn Féin meetings, and Órlaithí was banging the drum about the issue at that time. I appreciate that she has stuck with the issue, no matter what brief she has been in, because she sees it as really important.

I will throw the safety issue back to the Minister, because it has been raised in the amendment. It is important to get an understanding of what is best practice and what is safe. I accept that an interim measure will not be best practice, because it will not be a mother-and-baby unit or what we have envisaged, and, more importantly, what the advocacy groups and the families who have suffered in the system want. "Suffered" is probably the right word, because it has not just been an experience: it has been suffering. We need to understand what can be put in place, which probably will not be best practice, but will be safe. I am making that challenge for positive reasons, and I am not criticising for the sake of it, because none of us wants to do that today.

I will go back to the point that was raised by Órlaithí and, potentially, Nuala about whether what is in place in Exeter and other places in England and Wales has been looked at as possible practice, if not best practice. I listened to Julie Anderson say this morning on 'Good Morning Ulster' that she is concerned that the unit will not be built during her time as chairperson. She did not talk about interim measures being unsafe. That does not mean that, if we looked at what is possible, we would find that they are not unsafe, but we really need to look at what is possible.

As Sian Mulholland and others said, the current fragmented, complicated service, or lack thereof, is causing additional harm to mothers, their babies and their wider families. We need to remember that, very often, in cases involving a mother and a baby, there are other children as well. Pam spoke about those other children. It is traumatic for a mummy to be separated from any of her children, not just her new baby. That is really difficult. I understand that best practice allows those children and that family connection to be part of the service. That is really important.

Órlaithí, Cara and others referred to the failure to collect data. They talked about it being a barrier to addressing the need for a mother-and-baby unit. I do not think that it is necessarily a barrier to that — I think that the Minister has accepted that we need a mother-and-baby unit — but it is a barrier to our understanding of exactly how many women out there are impacted on. We talked about the non-collection of statistics for women who die by suicide within the first year after having a new baby. That is a real problem. There are many women who suffered undiagnosed postpartum perinatal mental health disorders or postpartum psychosis — perhaps the medical profession did not even know about them — who may not be included in the stats that we are talking about today . They may not have taken account of serious adverse incidents in which mothers died. There is potentially a problem out there that we do not even know about.

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for giving way. Just to be technical about it, deaths by suicide is a matter for NISRA — the Statistics and Research Agency — rather than the Department.

Linda Dillon (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I accept that it does not all fall to your Department. It is also an issue for the Coroners' Court and others. There is a wider issue, but we need Departments to work together to gather that data. There will be an effect on your Department. Although others may collect the data, there will be a real issue for your Department.

Pam outlined the impact on the entire family and other children. Many Members also referenced the approach to women's healthcare. Over the past number of weeks, we have spoken about a number of areas in which, effectively, we have seen neglect in women's healthcare. In this case, that extends to the wider family, the children and the baby.

Minister, I am in no doubt that you see the need for a mother-and-baby unit. I accept what you have said about that. You said that you spoke to the previous Health Minister in the South, but I would like to see a conversation between you and the new Health Minister, even about interim measures. Is there the potential for all-Ireland interim measures? I do not know whether that is possible, but the conversation needs to happen. It is a challenge to see what can be done. We ask that your Departments, including the clinicians, work together and see what is possible.

Danny Donnelly (Alliance, East Antrim)

I thank the Member for giving way. She will be aware that this issue has been raised at joint North/South Health Committee meetings here and down south, at which she spoke very well, and at the North/South Inter-Parliamentary Association, where we had a day's worth of debate about it. There is certainly interest down south in working together on a shared solution. I hope that the Minister will take forward the view that that avenue is not shut off, and that we can explore it.

Linda Dillon (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I thank the Member for his intervention. That is right. At the end of the day, clinicians serve their patients; they want to do the very best for mothers, babies and their families. They do not care about borders or how the service is delivered; they just want to be able to deliver the best care. All that we are asking is that we look at the possibilities. I do not doubt that there will be challenges, but we all need to work together. We, as a Health Committee, will certainly support you, Minister, in that regard.

I ask the Minister to come back to the Health Committee, first, to tell us what "safe" looks like or why it would be unsafe now to provide an interim service. What conversations, then, can we have with counterparts in the South and across these islands around best practice? We have said that interim measures are in place in England and Wales, so we need to speak to people there to find out what a good interim measure might look like and what the best possible practice is, right now, for women and their babies.

I accept what was said about care in the community, and it is vital that we have that. We have talked consistently here, as has the Minister, about health inequalities and the shift left. It is really important that women get the care that they need closest to home when that is the suitable care. We know, however, that there are women who need 24-hour care with their babies, with all the services that have already been outlined, including support from different types of clinicians.

I have no doubt that the staff who work in our psychiatric units to treat women with postpartum psychosis and serious mental health episodes after the birth of their baby are doing the very best that they can, but they can only treat the mummy and the mental health disorder that she has at that moment. They do not have the expertise, the skills, the time or the resources to deal with her as a new mother or to deal with her baby and her family. I am asking that we do our best as soon as possible. If we cannot have a mother-and-baby unit soon, what can we put in place that looks after those mothers and their babies? I know that that is what everybody in the Chamber today wants. I ask that we all work together to deliver the best for them all.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

Thank you, Linda. Such was the quality of the debate that I forgot to look at the clock. Thank you very much indeed for continuing. I apologise to the Business Committee.

The Business Committee has arranged to meet at 1.00 pm. I propose, therefore, by leave of the Assembly, to suspend the sitting until 2.00 pm. The Question on amendment No 1 will be put after the question for urgent oral answer.

The debate stood suspended.

The sitting was suspended at 1.02 pm.

On resuming —

Oral Answers to Questions — Infrastructure

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

Questions 1, 2, 14 and 15 have been withdrawn

Jonathan Buckley (DUP, Upper Bann)

3. Mr Buckley asked the Minister for Infrastructure for her assessment of how climate change targets will impact on the delivery of major road infrastructure projects. (AQO 2493/22-27)

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

My Department's major project portfolio is complex, with a range of projects at various stages of development and delivery. Every project will have specific considerations, but, in common with all Departments, I am very mindful at present of the impact of the judgement on the A5 western transport corridor, which was extremely disappointing and against which I recently lodged an appeal. It would not be appropriate for me to comment on the judgement in detail while the appeal remains live. As my officials work extremely hard to prepare for the hearing, I will take the necessary time to consider carefully the potential impact of the judgement on other projects as they move through the next stages of their delivery.

Jonathan Buckley (DUP, Upper Bann)

Thank you, Minister, for your answer. I have said previously that current climate change targets are an act of infrastructural vandalism when it comes to delivering timely projects. Notwithstanding what the Minister said about the A5 and her inability to speak specifically to that — I welcome the fact that there is an appeal — has the Minister, her Department or, indeed, her party given consideration to amending current climate change targets to ensure that, in the future, unrealistic targets are not a noose around the neck of infrastructure projects in Northern Ireland?

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I appreciate the Member's comments. As I said, as the appeal remains live, that is the ultimate focus of my officials at present. I want to ensure that we submit an extremely robust case for that appeal to maximise our ability to succeed, get it over the line and get the road built at the earliest possible stage. However, I am mindful that nothing is guaranteed, so it is important that we have a contingency plan, which we are also working on.

Justin McNulty (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

Minister, according to the Mineral Products Association, the A5 could have been a low-carbon project if proper procedures had been followed. What procedures were not followed, who was responsible and what are the implications for other major road projects?

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I am aware of the comments from the Mineral Products Association, which I met recently. I acknowledge the views expressed by the regional director, but, respectfully, I would like to offer a different perspective. I have covered some of this in previous discussions in the Chamber and in response to questions for written answer.

Since its inception, the A5 scheme has adhered to appropriate procedures on carbon management and greenhouse gas (GHG) assessments. Those procedures have consistently reflected the application of evolving relevant standards, best practice guidance and legislation. However, that did not conclude in a carbon-neutral dual carriageway. Those procedures instructed the assessment and reporting of climate-related impacts in the environmental documentation for public consultation and the identification of proposed mitigation measures to reduce the impacts. However, on the basis of the size and nature of the scheme, it is expected that the construction and operational phases will generate emissions, as reported in the GHG assessments prepared by my Department.

To mitigate the impacts further in order to achieve full carbon neutrality through balancing the emissions from the construction, operation and use of the road by removing a corresponding amount of GHGs from the atmosphere would require extensive mitigations, such as vesting significant areas of additional land for planting etc. Such measures would be disproportionate when compared with the land that is required to construct the A5. Such an approach would be neither practical nor reasonable, and it would be unrealistic to achieve.

Section 7.3 of the departmental statement, "Carbon Management Process", has been developed in line with PAS 2080:2023, which is the industry standard for managing whole-life carbon in buildings and infrastructure. It sets out the requirements for the contractors, designer and asset owner, with the aim of achieving carbon reduction. That process aims to minimise the carbons associated with the scheme.

Diana Armstrong (UUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

The issue of major infrastructure projects has been raised. I will raise again the major infrastructure for the people of Fermanagh: the Enniskillen southern bypass. Minister, what assurances can you give them that the project will be expedited as quickly as possible?

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Member for her question. I know that she has previously asked questions on the subject. The A4 Enniskillen bypass, which is a £36 million project, will provide a new transport link to the southern side of the town and improve the connection for the A4 Dublin Road and the A4 Sligo Road. As the Member may be aware, the scheme is at the tender assessment stage, and I am taking the opportunity, as I do with all such schemes, to consider appropriately the impact of the A5 ruling on it before determining the next steps, because I want to be assured that we can move forward with the scheme with no further delays.

Áine Murphy (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

4. Ms Murphy asked the Minister for Infrastructure for an update on her guidance on unadopted developments. (AQO 2494/22-27)

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Earlier this year, I gave a commitment to the House to provide updated private streets enforcement guidance to staff in an effort to reduce the risk of developments entering the Department's backlog of unadopted private street sites. On 25 September this year, I announced the introduction of the new private streets enforcement guidance. The guidance establishes a threshold for the initiation of enforcement action of two years, following 80% occupation of houses in the development. My Department also published new developer information that amends the bond release thresholds. That change will ensure that my Department has the funds to bring new development roads infrastructure up to an adoptable standard should enforcement action be necessary. The new guidance, implemented alongside the changes to the bond release thresholds, will protect homeowners by greatly reducing the risk of new developments remaining unadopted.

Áine Murphy (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I thank the Minister for her answer. It is welcome news that will be reassuring to many homeowners, particularly those living on sites newly built since 2024.

Minister, can you elaborate on what the changes to the bond release thresholds are exactly?

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Yes. I appreciate the Member's comments. I know that it is an issue that has a huge impact, particularly on residents who are greatly affected by unadopted roads. Many have been for many years, and I hope that, in some way, the new guidance will give them comfort that efforts are being made. I know that the guidance will not address all the outstanding issues for the many people affected, but it will hopefully make a real difference.

The bond release thresholds specify the volume of work that the developer needs to complete before part of the bond is released, and the historical bond release thresholds were 50%, 70% and 90%. We have now changed those thresholds. There will be only two thresholds, which are 50% and 90%. The developer is now required to complete all works that were previously within the 70% threshold in order to release 50% of the bond; in other words, my Department now holds more funding to complete potentially less work. That will greatly reduce the risk of new developments lacking the funds to complete the roads infrastructure. The 90% threshold requires the developer to have completed all roads infrastructure works, with the remaining 10% released following a one-year maintenance period.

Trevor Clarke (DUP, South Antrim)

Minister, your guidance does not go far enough. Many people who have been left abandoned prior to 2024 will be disappointed with the guidance. Can you not relook at the retrospective nature of the guidance, particularly for people living in private streets? There are hundreds upon hundreds of people across Northern Ireland who are living in private streets today, and your policy will make no difference whatever to them.

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

As I said in my previous answer, I recognise that people will be disappointed. That is unfortunate, but the responsibility lies with the developer. We are trying to work out some way in which to deal with the issues as best we can. As I said and as you reflected in your question, the new guidance uses the two-year initiation of enforcement action and the increased funding retained in the bond to complete enforcement action using external staffing resource, should it be required. Many of the developments that were started prior to January 2024 have been completed or have already received bond reductions in line with the old developer's information. That means that a greater proportion of the bond has been released, significantly reducing the funding necessary to engage that external research.

What I have done here is within my remit and within the serious financial constraints that I face.

I have tried to make the best use of the funding available to me to ensure that we make an impact, and I take on board and acknowledge the significant challenges that many of the homeowners face. I appreciate that not everyone will benefit from this, but I hope that the Member understands that we try to do as much as we can with what we have.

Nick Mathison (Alliance, Strangford)

The Minister is aware that the issues of adoption also apply to sewerage infrastructure and that NI Water has no budget to carry out some of those works. I think of Magheraknock Park in Ballynahinch, which the Minister knows of. In the Minister's plans, where there is no developer to make liable — in that instance in my constituency, the developer has passed away — is there any scenario where she can see funds being released to NI Water to allow the works to bring sewerage systems up to standard?

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

That is similar to the issue in the question asked by the previous Member. The bonds release will impact on all those schemes within two years.

I am familiar with that issue. If the Member writes in with specifics on that case — it is a very unfortunate case with unforeseen circumstances — I will provide a fuller response on what we can do on that.

Jon Burrows (UUP, North Antrim)

My constituents in the Sourhill development of Ballymena have a problem with an unadopted road. Minister, can you understand their frustration? The developer went bust many years ago; there is an unadopted road; and trees are literally growing into their property. That will cause structural damage. It is causing health issues with mould, and nobody will fix it. The council will not cut down the trees; the DFI will not do it; and the Crown Estate takes no interest. Someone, through no fault of their own, will have to pay thousands of pounds to cut back trees that a bust developer has left.

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I completely empathise with those people. It is something that every Member of the House has had experience of. It is a huge issue. However, it is like many cases where we cannot just go in and start taking on issues that have been caused by a private developer. The updated guidance that I have recently announced goes some way to address it.

We have to balance that against how much we can do with the funding envelope that is available to the Department. If we start to deal with all the issues that have been caused by private developers, it will take a significant chunk out of a budget that is already constrained. That is notwithstanding the fact that I recognise that it is hugely challenging for all the people affected. However, the onus in those cases is on a private developer. I know that, in some cases, legal action has been instigated. There are potentially other ways in which the problems could be addressed. We have to remember that ours is public money and we cannot always fix problems caused by private developers.

Órlaithí Flynn (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

5. Ms Flynn asked the Minister for Infrastructure for an update on late-night public transport. (AQO 2495/22-27)

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I recognise the benefits that late-night public transport services provide for the night-time economy and those working and socialising in the city. Members may be aware that I have been working with my Executive colleagues and other stakeholders, including Translink, to support the extension of late-night public transport services. The extension of night-time services falls beyond the current public service agreement between Translink and my Department, and those services are not currently funded in the Department’s budget allocation. Therefore, I have been working with Executive colleagues and seeking support for a collaborative funding approach and with Belfast City Council. Subject to the necessary funding being in place and confirmed, I hope that the services will commence later this financial year.

Órlaithí Flynn (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I thank the Minister for her response. Will she elaborate on the expected benefits of the pilot for late-night transport?

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

There are many benefits, and that is why I and the Economy Minister sought support from other Departments and the council. There are benefits across government and at local government level. Late-night public transport services are generally run in the lead-up to the Christmas period and prove to be popular with the public, with approximately 17,000 passengers using the services in 2024. The extension of the late-night bus service to all year round will also provide a safer and more reliable means of getting home for those working or socialising in the city. From speaking with local business representatives, local communities and elected reps for the Belfast and surrounding areas, I know that it will ensure that people can get home safely. They will have a guaranteed way of getting home, and it will encourage them to come into the city centre more often in the evening.

That will also benefit the growth of the night-time economy and could potentially add between £1 million and £2·5 million to the city's economy annually.

As well as that, from my Department's perspective, it has the potential to encourage and increase public transport usage and get more people out of private cars and using the services. One other thing that is important to reflect on — we have heard this from the taxi sector, which is already under severe capacity pressure — is that this will not impact on them in a negative way; it will actually complement their ability to deliver the services that they provide. There are many far-reaching benefits, and I hope that, once we get the funding in place, we will see this in place at the earliest possible stage.

Phillip Brett (DUP, Belfast North)

At the outset, I condemn the disgraceful attack on the Minister's constituency office yesterday. My thoughts are with the Minister, her staff and her family. I also thank the Minister for her commitment and support to this scheme; it is greatly appreciated. Can the Minister articulate the outstanding support from Executive colleagues that she requires to move it forward? I understand that a number of Departments have already signed up to it. How quickly can we start the process to ensure that this is in place before Christmas?

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Member for his very kind comments, and I think all Members across the House. The support over the past day or so has been really welcome, particularly for my staff and their families, who have been very shaken up by what has occurred. I reiterate the point that, as public representatives, we put our names forward to represent our communities to the best of our ability. For those who do not agree with us, we are happy to sit down, engage and talk through dialogue. However, that attack was not the answer. I really convey my thanks and appreciation on behalf of me and my colleague Dáire Hughes MP.

On Executive support, the Member may be aware that I have sought support of approximately £92,300, or about 14% of the total cost, each from a number of Departments, including Communities, Agriculture and Justice, as well as from Belfast City Council, and we are in the process of finalising that. A similar request has also been made to the First Minister and deputy First Minister's office. Minister Archibald and I have each committed to £94,900 towards the cost of extending the services, and that is based on the business case that was provided by Translink. There will potentially be a bit of a lead-in time because Translink will obviously have to get the operational issues in place. However, as soon as we can, we hope to get that operational, because we recognise how beneficial it is for the city centre, particularly coming into the Christmas period and beyond. It is a really good opportunity to enhance the existing service provision, but, for all the reasons outlined in my response to the previous Member, it will be beneficial right across the city and beyond.

Cara Hunter (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

I also offer my solidarity to the Minister and her colleague. No violence or threat of violence is ever acceptable towards elected reps.

I thank the Minister for her update on late-night transport today. For many women in my constituency, when using late-night transport, they often say that they feel unsafe due to areas not being well lit. Will the Minister share with the House today some steps that her Department is taking, recognising the role that she can play in making areas better lit and making sure that women feel safe when using late-night transport?

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Member for her comments. This is an issue that I have been particularly cognisant of, not just as a woman but with regard to our overarching work in ending violence against women and girls. For many, it will come as a surprise just how women think when they are out and about, trying to get from place to place, whether that is walking or using public transport. It is something that I have been working on with my officials, but also reflecting on what we have done around the late-night transport piece, working with other Departments to try to achieve the objectives that we have set out in relation to the issue.

The Member will know from some of the work that we have been doing on active travel that street lighting forms a key part of that, and that is exactly the reason why. It is one thing to put in new active travel routes that will encourage people to walk, wheel or cycle, but if they do not feel safe to do so, they will not be able to fully utilise those routes. That is a key component of those schemes, and that is why I am keen to see that they are properly lit so that they are accessible to all, and particularly women, given the challenges and some of the statistics we have sadly seen in recent years.

Cathy Mason (Sinn Féin, South Down)

6. Mrs Mason asked the Minister for Infrastructure for an update on the establishment of a flood forecasting centre. (AQO 2496/22-27)

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

The Department is actively exploring the creation of a flood forecasting centre. We recently completed a strategic outline business case, which demonstrated that it would provide benefit here. On that basis, I approved funding for this financial year to further explore flood forecasting capabilities here. That investment marks a vital first step towards building a state-of-the-art flood forecasting service that will strengthen our resilience and help to protect communities across the North. The next stage of appraisal is the production of an outline business case in the hope of securing the necessary financial approvals to advance to subsequent stages of development.

The development of flood forecasting services is complex, with several interdependent strands, including data requirements; new hydrometric infrastructure and IT systems, such as communication platforms; and forecasting model builds. For example, my Department identified the need to expand our existing hydrometric network in support of flood forecasting services. The network will collate data over an extended period to improve and validate data quality. A long period of records is required to understand hydrometric relationships and to be able to predict future forecasts with an acceptable degree of confidence. Given the frequency of flooding now in all our constituencies, including the Member's and mine, we know just how important the opportunity to plan and forecast and put responses in place is. That work will be critical.

Cathy Mason (Sinn Féin, South Down)

I thank the Minister for that answer. Minister, you have been very supportive of residents in Newcastle and businesses in Downpatrick, which have been severely impacted on by flooding. Will you give us an update on the Department's collaboration with regional community resilience groups (RCRGs)?

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Yes. Thank you for your comments.

I met the Newcastle RCRG, which does phenomenal work in responding to flooding, particularly given the frequency of the incidents that they have experienced and the severe impact that those incidents have caused. My Department continues to work very effectively with all multi-agency partners, including our local councils and the RCRGs, to provide support to local communities that are affected by flooding. The RCRG, which my Department co-chairs with local government representatives, works with communities at risk of flooding to help them prepare for and respond to weather-related emergencies, including flooding. That work helps to build resilience in communities. It is not that the Department is stepping away from its responsibilities; rather, it is about developing an extra layer of support that is proposed for those who are impacted on by flood events.

It is really important to note that that work helps to ensure that we hear the real experience, expertise and thoughts of people on the ground, because they have become experts on those issues and the best solution. That grassroots approach to collaboration is really important, and we have seen the benefit of it.

At present, the RCRG is working with 50 communities to help them to improve their preparedness and resilience when it comes to severe weather. Another good example of that work can be found in Newry in my constituency. As a result of the flooding in autumn 2023, the Department established the very first business-led group with the Newry business improvement district (BID). That group is a real template of what else we can do. The impact on businesses cannot be overstated.

You mentioned the example of Newcastle, where the surface water flooding protocol by NI Water has been established and used in recent months. However, it is important to recognise the fact that residents in particular have some nervousness, because it is a temporary measure. NI Water is working on modelling to find a more permanent solution.

Diane Forsythe (DUP, South Down)

Minister, I echo the comments of others in condemning the attack on your office. I know how busy your office is, given that it is in the heart of Newry and so close to Daisy Hill Hospital. It was unacceptable.

Minister, hearing those updates on what is happening with the flood forecasting centre on that wider scale is welcome, but I want to bring it back to basics. On Friday, when the storm was coming in, I was out and about in the Mournes area. Flash flooding occurred simultaneously between Newcastle and Annalong at Bloody Bridge and between Gamekeeper's Lodge and Moyad in Kilkeel, which made it quite difficult to access the entire Kilkeel area. A lot of that might have been down to drainage and run-off. Are those basic things being reviewed hand in hand with the higher-level strategy? Obviously, everything comes into play when we see severe storms.

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Member for her kind words.

Yes, they absolutely are, particularly in areas that are hotspots for flooding. I am aware of the impact of the flooding at Bloody Bridge. The key areas are drainage and gully cleaning, but I am happy to write to you with a more detailed response on the specifics to update you and, hopefully, give you confidence that the Department has been monitoring that and continues to do so, particularly as we head into the autumn/winter period during which such episodes are likely to be more frequent.

Flash flooding and periods of instant heavy rainfall can be difficult to manage. We see that across the board, but the higher-risk areas are monitored closely, and we work extremely hard to ensure that drainage and gully cleaning work is carried out regularly.

Andrew McMurray (Alliance, South Down)

It is good to see you, Minister. You mentioned the outline business case (OBC) for a flood forecasting centre. Does that attribute a cost to the centre, and how confident are you of securing that, given that your predecessors' bids were unsuccessful in previous monitoring rounds?

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

As the Member will be aware, there will be a number of processes to go through, and we will get the costings at each stage. I am fairly confident that we will be able to secure the funding, because, regardless of what we in government do, flooding is a massive issue that is growing, and we all need to take it very seriously. A huge amount of work has gone into the development of the flood forecasting centre, which will help improve our resilience and our response to such issues. When there is a flood such as the one that we experienced in the autumn of 2023 — I know that your constituency was badly affected, as mine was — the impact and aftermath of that could cost a hell of a lot more than the cost of being more prepared and having foresight of it. We have a strong evidence base and a strong argument in the cost-benefit analysis to ensure that the funding is secured.

Gerry Carroll (People Before Profit Alliance, Belfast West)

7. Mr Carroll asked the Minister for Infrastructure to outline how her Department links statistics on road traffic collisions with her Department's plans for road safety measures. (AQO 2497/22-27)

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

My Department's road safety programme and actions are data-driven and are managed through an evidence-based approach, delivering engineering, enforcement and education initiatives to address issues that will bring the greatest road safety benefit. Officials use PSNI collision data and reports from the Department's analysis, statistics and research branch to set priorities, target high-risk locations and evaluate outcomes.

My Department's road safety strategy and accompanying action plan and targets have been developed following extensive research and consultation, and, indeed, the yearly action plan is refreshed following analysis of my Department’s annual road safety strategy statistical report. Officials also publish additional monitoring reports and problem profiles, focusing on, for example, excessive speed, pedestrian casualties and drink-driving.

Using those valuable pieces of research and working alongside our partners in the blue-light organisations, we have produced a forward-looking and strategic action plan with clear direction on how we aim to meet its key targets and address emerging trends and issues. The action plan is monitored and reviewed annually by the road safety strategic forum and is an important living document that keeps our focus on reducing the number of people killed or injured on our roads.

Trend analysis underpins the ongoing speed limit review and guides where education and enforcement, in conjunction with the PSNI and the road safety partnership, will have most impact. Once PSNI data is received, the Department completes an annual collision review that ranks sites and routes identified as being of concern and programmes local transport and safety measures to bring safety benefits to those locations. Post-scheme monitoring compares trends before and after collisions and feeds into the following year's priorities.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

I call Gerry Carroll for a short supplementary question.

Gerry Carroll (People Before Profit Alliance, Belfast West)

Thank you, Minister. I echo everybody's comments. I am concerned that things are not matching up and that data is hard for MLAs and reps to get hold of. My understanding is that it is your Department's policy not to provide mirrors for people to see their way out of very busy junctions. Is the Minister interested in looking at that policy again so that people are not in a dangerous situation at junctions where traffic is heavy and there are a lot of collisions?

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I am happy to give you a more detailed response on that. As a constituency MLA, I previously raised the issue, because many people ask for that; however, I am confident that the rationale for not being able to provide mirrors stacks up, and I am happy to provide further detail on that.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

That ends the period for listed questions. We will move to 15 minutes of topical questions.

Justin McNulty (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

Minister, I offer my solidarity to you, your colleagues and your staff following the planting of a bomb outside your office in Newry on Sunday night. It must have been terribly frightening for you and everybody involved. Thank God that the bomb did not go off. I hope that everybody is OK.

Justin McNulty (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

T1. Mr McNulty asked the Minister for Infrastructure to outline what steps she will take to address the traffic congestion in Armagh city — the forgotten city and only city on the island without a rail link — that causes delays and tailbacks on the main routes into, out of and through the city, which, in turn, cause headaches for local people and businesses. (AQT 1641/22-27)

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I thank my constituency colleague for his kind words and support today and over the past 24 hours. That is welcome, particularly for my staff.

I refute the point that he made about Armagh city being forgotten. It is part of my constituency and is a city that I visit frequently, particularly for matches. I am very aware of the congestion issues and the frustrations felt by local people in particular, as well as those who travel to and from Armagh city.

The Member mentioned the rail link. He will be aware that we are considering the feasibility studies from the all-island strategic rail review for a rail link for Armagh. I hope to be able to publish the outcomes of that in the coming weeks. Traffic and congestion measures are constantly under review, and there are things that we can look at. I am happy to consider anything new, and the Department can look at that. We are cognisant of the challenge of congestion. We are working together on that, as well as looking at public transport options.

Justin McNulty (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Minister for her answer. Last week, the Infrastructure Committee was updated on the progress of the A28 Armagh east link and A3 Armagh north and west link road schemes. It appears that those vital road projects, which could alleviate congestion in Armagh city, have been shelved and that there is no timeline for their delivery. Why is that? Will the Minister commit to getting those projects back on track and progressing them?

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

As the Member knows, those projects were paused some time ago, before I came into post, for various reasons, including lack of funding. As he was updated on the prioritisation of major road projects, he will know — I reflected this in my responses to other questions today — that the A5 judgement is having an impact on all road schemes at present. I have to consider that, in particular, for the projects that are already moving through the stages of delivery, while keeping under review all the other projects that have been paused, such as those that the Member mentioned. The impact of the ruling will ensure that I am responsible in my decision-making when progressing any such schemes so that we do not hit the challenges that we have at this point. It will be kept under review. When I have a further update, I will be happy to update the House.

Pam Cameron (DUP, South Antrim)

My thoughts are with the Minister and her staff, and I utterly condemn the actions of the small-minded people who sought to attack her constituency office.

Pam Cameron (DUP, South Antrim)

T2. Mrs Cameron asked the Minister for Infrastructure when she intends to bring the issue of Irish-language signs at Grand Central station to the Executive for discussion and decision. (AQT 1642/22-27)

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Member for her kind words.

As I have stated, I am absolutely committed to dialogue and to avoiding the unnecessary use of public funds for litigation, which, unfortunately, we currently see. The issue could have been resolved long ago. Unfortunately, however, we are going through legal proceedings, and, with that in mind, it would be remiss of me to make further comment until those proceedings conclude.

Pam Cameron (DUP, South Antrim)

I thank the Minister for her answer. It is clear that the Minister's decision on the signage at Grand Central station is cross-cutting, which, in itself, requires it to be referred to the Executive. I respectfully ask which part of the controversy around her actions convinced the Minister that her decision was not controversial.

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

The Member will not be surprised to hear that I do not agree with the claim that my decision was cross-cutting or the claim that it was controversial. If I felt that either was the case, I would not have taken the decision. That is the bottom line. I stand over the fact that I could take that decision as the Minister for the relevant Department, and I will continue to do so. As I said, there is a legal case under way, unfortunately. Another Minister is involved in it. It is important that we allow the case to run its course.

Pat Sheehan (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

T3. Mr Sheehan asked the Minister for Infrastructure for an update on her recent announcement on cross-pavement charging solutions. (AQT 1643/22-27)

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Member for his question. The ability of people who do not have a driveway to charge their electric vehicle (EV) is currently restricted, as it is an offence to lay a cable across the footway or road under the terms of the Roads Order 1993. Departmental officials have explored how cross-pavement charging solutions might be provided to enable electric vehicle owners without access to a driveway to charge their vehicle at home and access cheaper home tariffs.

Officials have identified two solutions. The first is the installation of a permanent channel, which involves the cutting and reinstatement of the pavement. That engineered channel, through the use of the street works licence process, can be used to facilitate the placing of permanent engineered channels into footways. A director of engineering memorandum has been finalised to provide engineering staff and applicants with guidance on the new process and to outline standards and specifications for channels. There is a cost involved with that option, with the total bill being approximately £2,393. The Office for Zero Emission Vehicles (OZEV) offers a range of grants for EVs and EV infrastructure. The electric vehicle charge point grant for households with on-street parking can provide up to £350 towards the cost of installing a charge point at a property.

The second solution is the use of a temporary cable protector, which can be allowed under current legislation through an application process for consent that permits the Department to track usage. That is a cheaper option that will help meet duties under the Climate Change Act 2022, which requires just transition principles to be considered.

The solutions are being facilitated through a six-month rolling pilot, which I announced on 1 October, that will allow for ongoing monitoring and evaluation. If there is evidence that the use of the solutions causes undue harm or that consent conditions are not being adhered to, consent will be withdrawn and the pilot stopped.

Pat Sheehan (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as ucht a freagra.

[Translation: I thank the Minister for her answer.]

Does she agree that any changes to decarbonisation must be in line with just transition principles?

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Absolutely. As the Member will be aware, the Department has identified its key policies for decarbonising the transport sector. In doing so, we have taken account of the just transition requirements in the Climate Change Act 2022. As transport decarbonisation policies and actions are further progressed, we will take into account the needs of all transport users, including those with a disability, and continue to engage with people with a disability and the key stakeholders who represent them.

William Irwin (DUP, Newry and Armagh)

As a fellow representative of Newry and Armagh, I add my condemnation of the attack on the Minister's office.

William Irwin (DUP, Newry and Armagh)

T4. Mr Irwin asked the Minister for Infrastructure whether, given that she is aware of the issues around vehicle damage compensation and the fact that, on many occasions, the money handed out to cover the cost of damage to vehicles from a single road defect far outweighs the cost of a timely repair by DFI Roads, she will fully commit to reducing the bill for vehicle damage compensation payouts by ensuring that road defects are repaired in a timelier manner to avoid the colossal overspend on compensation. (AQT 1644/22-27)

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Member for his kind comments.

In relation to road defects and their impact on road users, particularly where a vehicle has been damaged, it is my objective to reduce the need for compensation and, instead, see proper investment in our roads, including rural roads, which, as the Member will be aware, are a key element of our shared constituency. There is a need to invest better in order to have better road surfaces.

The Member will be aware that the Department is finalising the road maintenance strategy, which looks for smarter decisions to be taken that will result in more resilient road maintenance. That will hopefully address some of the issues that the Member and many others across the House have described. As I have said previously, it has already been piloted in one council area, and we have seen the benefits of that, including improved and more resilient road surfaces. My focus is on seeing that investment directed into the network, including for maintenance and for ongoing work on tackling the defects.

William Irwin (DUP, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Minister for her response. Can she confirm that, over the past year, over £5 million has been paid out to vehicle owners for damage?

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

The figures for the compensation that has been paid are publicly available, and I have shared them with Members in response to questions for written answer. That is a huge amount of money, and I would rather it was invested in our road network. I am determined to see that happen in the time ahead.

Órlaithí Flynn (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

T5. Ms Flynn asked the Minister for Infrastructure, while conscious that this is her second question that focuses on Belfast, to provide an update on her measures to keep Belfast moving in the run-up to Christmas. (AQT 1645/22-27)

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

As the Member is a representative for Belfast, I would expect nothing else. As the Member will know, I recently announced some of the measures that I have been working on alongside many representatives of local businesses and communities across Belfast, following the hugely challenging situation that we saw in Belfast city centre last year. We were trying to learn from what happened and were listening to the people on the ground about how we can make a difference this year on traffic congestion and keep Belfast moving. That is the key message.

I announced the introduction of measures yesterday, and those will be aimed at improving bus reliability, including the extension of bus lane hours to provide them with enhanced priority. Extended bus lanes will be introduced on the first Monday of November in several of the key arterial routes to the south of the city, which were worst affected with traffic congestion in the run-up to Christmas last year. The roads where that will be introduced will include Ormeau Road, Botanic Avenue, Malone Road and part of Lisburn Road, and signs to alert the public to the new bus lane times that will operate from 7.30 am to 9.30 am and from 3.30 pm to 6.30 pm on both inward and outward journeys will be erected in advance of implementation. Where the buses share road space with general traffic, I am hopeful that the reopening of Durham Street, which is planned for before the end of November, will help to ease the general traffic flow around the city.

It is also important to say that, on the basis of the feedback that I have received from key stakeholders in the city centre and the surrounding areas, those measures will, I hope, go some way to alleviate congestion but will not eliminate it, because we are indeed coming into the festive period. A lot of people will start their shopping earlier than in previous years, and we have to remember that in the time ahead. We have implemented a number of measures, and I hope to see a real improvement.

Órlaithí Flynn (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I appreciate that update from the Minister. Does she agree that it is about getting the message out to people that those measures are genuinely about giving people an alternative to sitting in traffic and that that is the message that she wants to promote?

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Absolutely. If you are sitting in traffic and are seeing buses whizzing by you on the bus lanes, that means that the people in the buses are getting to their destination much more quickly than you are. I hope that the measures will encourage more people to use our public transport. We have quite good public transport services, particularly around the city centre, and I would like to see increased utilisation of that in conjunction with the late-night services that we hope to see in the near future. Those measures also help us to encourage more people to use public transport more regularly, and I hope that we can use them to see that going forward.

Paul Frew (DUP, North Antrim)

T6. Mr Frew asked the Minister for Infrastructure to outline the spend by Translink, our public transport provider, on pride events over the past two years, which, as the Minister will know, have turned political over the past two years. (AQT 1646/22-27)

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

In the past four years, Translink has provided £19,912 in financial support to the Belfast pride parade towards the costs of registration, branding and materials. The funding for each year is broken down as follows: 2022-23, £5,427; 2023-24, £4,375; 2024-25, £5,397; and 2025-26, £4,713.

Paul Frew (DUP, North Antrim)

Given the political nature of the events and the problems that we have with our public transport, does the Minister think that that is a wise spend of money?

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Translink operates under a public service agreement with my Department that sets out service delivery expectations and performance indicators. As a public corporation, Translink has substantial operational independence, but my Department retains oversight through governance frameworks and performance reviews. My Department assesses value for money through key performance indicators, including customer satisfaction; inclusion and community engagement, which, I think, those events reflect; compliance with 'Managing Public Money NI' principles and corporate governance codes; and annual audits and financial reporting requirements. Whilst DFI does not directly approve individual event expenditures, it expects Translink to demonstrate that such activity aligns with its strategic goals, including equality, inclusion and public engagement.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

Minister, your time is up.

That concludes questions to the Minister for Infrastructure. Just take your ease while we hand over the top Table.

(Madam Principal Deputy Speaker in the Chair)

Question for Urgent Oral Answer

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Members, Colm Gildernew has given notice of a question for urgent oral answer to the Minister for Communities. I remind Members that, if they wish to ask supplementary questions, they should continually rise in their place. The Member who tabled the question will be called automatically to ask a supplementary question.

Colm Gildernew (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Mr Gildernew asked the Minister for Communities to outline the support that his Department and the Housing Executive is providing to tenants who have been forced to leave their homes as a result of sectarian or racist intimidation, given reports that these families are being housed in unsuitable and inadequate accommodation.

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

As I said during a motion in this place just a few weeks ago, I condemn the recent attacks that have forced victims of racist and sectarian intimidation from their homes. Everyone is entitled to live in peace and feel safe in their home, free from threat.

My Department, along with the Housing Executive and all registered housing associations, is committed to delivering a safer community for all. That includes ensuring that support and protection is provided for victims of race and sectarian hate crimes. In its role as the strategic housing authority for Northern Ireland, the Housing Executive has the responsibility for assessing those presenting as homeless due to sectarian or racist intimidation. Its duties can include the provision of temporary accommodation to ensure that people are safe and removed from any immediate threat. Normal housing processes — the assessment of need and allocation of points — come later, after the emergency.

The Housing Executive may make referrals to relevant floating support services to help address any particular support needs arising as a result of hate incidents. That can include information regarding self-referral hostels and referrals to floating support services. The Housing Executive recognises that some of those impacted by the recent disorder may not have eligibility for housing and homelessness assistance and is currently working with a number of partners to explore what additional support can be provided beyond any assistance that can be provided in line with homelessness legislation.

I reiterate my condemnation of the violence, which exacerbates our housing crisis by driving people from their homes. Intimidation contributes directly to housing need, increasing the number of families who have to resort to temporary accommodation to feel safe in their homes. It is not acceptable. I will continue to condemn such activity and push for greater investment in our housing stock to tackle the housing crisis and improve the standard of available housing.

Colm Gildernew (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I thank the Minister for his answer. Minister, I am sure that you aware that a 'Spotlight' programme will tell the story of a number of families who have been subjected to sectarian and racist hate crimes and forced from their homes over the summer. It has become clear that they sought emergency assistance and were given that. However, many of them have ended up in unsuitable accommodation, causing a great deal of stress and anxiety and, indeed, causing families to be under severe pressure. As the Minister responsible for housing, what have you done personally to support this family and other families who have been affected by the recent racist and sectarian intimidation?

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

I am not aware of exactly what was said during that programme, but I look forward to hearing all the details, verifying the timelines and seeing what else we can do. However, action has been taken by the Department and by Clanmil, the housing association responsible in that instance. It is important that, as a Department, we give the appropriate support. Immediately after the events of that time, officials were directly in contact to offer appropriate advice and support. Clanmil has been doing its best to help.

The real problem that we face, apart from the appalling attacks that have been taking place, is a lack of housing. We need to address that urgently. I hope that the Member will encourage his party colleagues on the Executive and other Executive members to fulfil the bids that I make so that we can start making progress on the issue and make sure that we have enough homes. That will mean that, when people find themselves in that situation, accommodation that is suitable for their needs is available.

Pam Cameron (DUP, South Antrim)

What message does the Minister have for those who think that it is acceptable to intimidate, in any form or fashion, residents from their homes?

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

My message is clear. It is on the record, and it is on the record with Executive colleagues when we put out a joint statement. It is not acceptable; it never has been acceptable; and it never will be acceptable. People should not be intimidated from their home, full stop.

Sian Mulholland (Alliance, North Antrim)

When it comes to working with other agencies, particularly in emergency situations, what role do councils play? What engagement do the Minister and the Department have when situations such as those that we have seen over the past few months occur?

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

I am aware of no particular role for councils in this circumstance, but I am happy to clarify that if that is wrong. I believe that Clanmil was able to secure temporary accommodation for those who were affected. I can clarify that for the Member if that is incorrect.

Andy Allen (UUP, Belfast East)

I echo the comments of others that intimidation is wrong. There never was a place for it, and there never will be a place for it.

I have been contacted recently by constituents who are concerned about the number of houses in multiple occupation (HMOs). While it is important that we provide temporary accommodation for those who need it, there is concern in communities about the number of HMOs that are popping up. Where does the Minister see the balance between HMOs and the delivery of temporary accommodation? Ultimately, we want to deliver more long-term, sustainable accommodation, rather than having to place people in temporary provision.

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

I share some of the concerns that have been expressed about HMOs, because they have the potential to change the character and make-up of an area. We have seen that in places where there were traditional family homes but HMO processes have changed that. I hope to make a statement to the House in coming weeks about HMOs and where we go from here, because there is huge concern about them. It is appropriate that I set out what I can do and, importantly, the roles of councils. I look forward to doing that soon.

Mark Durkan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

I express solidarity with all of the people and families who have been forced to flee their homes due to hate.

The Minister has made a virtue of coming down hard on benefit fraud. In extension to that, if a social housing tenant is found guilty of being involved in or, more so, orchestrating such intimidation, should it have implications for their tenancy?

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

Everybody should be treated equally under the law. If you have been found guilty of a crime, you should feel the weight of that and bear the consequences. I am more than happy to put it on record that I will treat everybody equally and hold everybody to the same standard, because we want to maintain the rights of people. If others breach the rights of those people, there should be consequences.

Gerry Carroll (People Before Profit Alliance, Belfast West)

Unfortunately, this points again to the need for the reinstatement of intimidation points, which I have requested be in place umpteen times. Will the Minister clarify to the House — this is, obviously, connected — why, when loyalist paramilitaries have stated publicly to journalists that they will torch buildings and vehicles because there is Irish language on them, his party goes into overdrive to say —

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Gerry.

Gerry Carroll (People Before Profit Alliance, Belfast West)

— that no threat exists?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Minister, you can respond to that if you want. It is not related to the question. It is up to you.

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

I am always happy to condemn any violence or threat of violence, wherever that comes from. Unfortunately, not everybody in the House has done that in the past, but it is certainly my position.

Gerry Kelly (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Minister, as was mentioned by the previous Member who spoke, intimidation points were done away with in, I think, March. I agree that they were being abused, but, in situations such as the recent case, in which it is obvious that there was intimidation — indeed, the police have said that the UDA was involved in such intimidation — and a specific threat, is there a method of accessing housing? Obviously, we need the points process for everything else, but I am worried that, having removed intimidation points, we have nothing with which to replace them.

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

Removing intimidation points was the right thing to do because they were being abused. Everybody will now be treated equally. I have spoken to the housing associations about intimidation points, and they were fully supportive of the move that was made. I am determined to make sure that everybody has access to the accommodation that they need and am working towards that.

Brian Kingston (DUP, Belfast North)

I welcome the Minister's reiterating his condemnation of the acts of intimidation and violence that have occurred. We will all agree with that. I met affected families this summer and with Clanmil, in particular, pushing for rehousing to be done according to those families' wishes. Clanmil tells me that it is working hard but that rehousing depends on the availability of social houses in the desired areas. Does the Minister agree that, as a point of fact, the more restrictive people are about where they want a new social house of the appropriate size, the longer it is likely to take to meet their requirements?

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

Yes. That is part of it. Flexibility is the key to getting permanent accommodation.

Ultimately, however, it comes down to our need for more social homes across Northern Ireland. Even in circumstances such as the ones that have been highlighted, it is difficult to get suitable accommodation that is available. That is why we need to significantly increase the number of social homes that are built in Northern Ireland, and it is why I appeal to colleagues to ensure that we in the House speak with one voice and call on my Executive colleagues to make sure that we have the funding that we need to meet our social housing targets.

Kellie Armstrong (Alliance, Strangford)

Minister, I condemn racism in all its forms. The violence that we saw against some people in Ballymena and other areas was a disgrace. The victims have now been moved out of the area because of that attack. Following on from Mr Gildernew's comments, what housing have the victims been placed in? You said that some of them were not eligible for housing help: why?

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

I do not think that I said that at all. I did not mention any individuals. I talked about the assistance that is available more generally, because Mr Gildernew's question was not specific to any incident. It was a wide-ranging question about the help that is available, which is why I outlined that. I have not commented on the individual circumstances of those whom the Member has mentioned.

Maolíosa McHugh (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

Minister, you will know that many families have been forced from their homes. Why have many of them not been offered appropriate accommodation? Will you explain that, and do you have an estimate of how often that happens?

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

It is simply because we do not have the supply right now. If we could do more, of course we would do it, but, given that the social housing is not available, there is nowhere for us to place people. That is why we have such extraordinarily long lists for social housing and such high bills for temporary accommodation. Again, I urge all Members to get behind my appeals to Executive colleagues to make sure that we have the funding in place to build more social homes.

Andrew McMurray (Alliance, South Down)

I thank the Minister. I can only imagine the trauma of being forced out of your home on the basis of your religion or race, so to hear the universal condemnation of that is good. Will the Minister ensure that rehousing offers dignity and safety and not just a roof over people's heads?

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

Yes.

Nicola Brogan (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

The Minister will know that it is not just about one family. Many families have been victims of racist and sectarian intimidation. Has he held regular meetings with the Housing Executive about those families? Has he personally met any of the families affected by intimidation?

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

I have not, although I regularly speak to the Housing Executive about the issues. I have spoken in particular to Clanmil, which is the housing association that is involved. I have offered to meet those who have been affected, and, tomorrow, I will meet some of the staff who have been dealing with the issues.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Thank you, everyone. That concludes this item of business.

I ask Members to take their ease while we change the Table and before we go back to the votes.

(Mr Deputy Speaker [Dr Aiken] in the Chair)

Private Members' Business

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

Before I put the Question on amendment No 1, I remind Members that, if it is made, I will not put the Question on amendment No 2.

Question put, That amendment No 1 be made.

The Assembly divided:

Ayes 41; Noes 32

AYES

Mr Allen, Ms D Armstrong, Ms K Armstrong, Mr Beattie, Mr Blair, Mr Brett, Mr Brooks, Ms Brownlee, Mr K Buchanan, Mr T Buchanan, Mr Buckley, Ms Bunting, Mr Burrows, Mr Butler, Mrs Cameron, Mr Chambers, Mr Clarke, Mr Donnelly, Mr Dunne, Ms Egan, Mrs Erskine, Ms Forsythe, Mr Frew, Mr Gaston, Mrs Guy, Mr Honeyford, Mr Irwin, Mr Kingston, Mrs Little-Pengelly, Mr Lyons, Miss McAllister, Miss McIlveen, Mr McMurray, Mr Martin, Mr Mathison, Ms Mulholland, Mr Nesbitt, Ms Nicholl, Mr Robinson, Mr Stewart, Mr Tennyson

Tellers for the Ayes: Ms Brownlee, Mrs Cameron

NOES

Dr Archibald, Mr Baker, Mr Boylan, Miss Brogan, Mr Carroll, Mr Delargy, Mrs Dillon, Mr Durkan, Ms Ennis, Ms Ferguson, Ms Finnegan, Ms Flynn, Mr Gildernew, Miss Hargey, Ms Hunter, Mr Kearney, Mr Kelly, Ms Kimmins, Mr McAleer, Mr McGlone, Mr McGrath, Mr McGuigan, Mr McHugh, Mr McNulty, Mrs Mason, Ms Ní Chuilín, Mr O'Dowd, Mrs O'Neill, Mr O'Toole, Ms Reilly, Mr Sheehan, Ms Sheerin

Tellers for the Noes: Miss Brogan, Mrs Dillon

Mr Clarke acted as a proxy for Mrs Erskine.

Question accordingly agreed to.

Main Question, as amended, put and agreed to.

Resolved:

That this Assembly recognises the importance of a regional mother-and-baby unit to support mothers with postpartum mental health issues; acknowledges that such a unit would enable mothers to remain with their babies while accessing specialist inpatient care; notes that giving birth can be one of the most fulfilling and joyous times in a mother's life; further notes that some mothers experience serious mental health challenges after birth, including postpartum psychosis; affirms that mothers deserve access to inpatient care that allows them to stay with their babies while receiving the support that they need; further acknowledges that we remain the only part of the United Kingdom without a dedicated mother-and-baby unit; expresses concern at the ongoing lack of provision; calls on the Minister of Health to provide an update on the current business case for the establishment of a mother-and-baby unit; and further calls on the Minister to put in place interim measures, including a dedicated ward with staff trained in conditions such as postpartum psychosis, to ensure that mothers in crisis can access appropriate support until that unit is developed and to engage with his ministerial counterparts in Great Britain to ensure that services in that unit apply best practice to best support mothers and babies living in Northern Ireland.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

Take your ease while we move to the next item on the agenda.

(Madam Principal Deputy Speaker in the Chair)

Kellie Armstrong (Alliance, Strangford)

I beg to move

That this Assembly acknowledges the role that poorly insulated and energy-inefficient social housing plays in driving up energy costs, thus contributing to fuel poverty; notes the benefits of reducing carbon emissions from the housing sector; recognises the value of interventions, such as retrofitting, which will deliver affordable warmth and reduce household energy bills; further recognises the role of renewables in creating energy security and the value of the targets and objectives for electricity consumption from renewable sources outlined in the Climate Change Act (Northern Ireland) 2022 and agreed by all Executive parties; and calls on the Minister for Communities to bring forward proposals for the redesign of social homes, incorporating higher energy-efficiency standards and renewable energy integration.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Thank you, Kellie. The Business Committee has agreed to allow up to one hour and 30 minutes for the debate. The proposer of the motion will have 10 minutes in which to propose and 10 minutes in which to make a winding-up speech. Three amendments have been selected and are published on the Marshalled List, so the Business Committee has agreed that 45 minutes will be added to the total time for the debate. Kellie, please open the debate on the motion.

Kellie Armstrong (Alliance, Strangford)

Thank you, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. I rise not just to propose the motion but to issue a call to action, because, behind every statistic on fuel poverty, there is a person; behind every cold, damp wall, there is a child doing homework in a coat; behind every outdated boiler, there is a pensioner rationing heat to make ends meet.

The motion recognises this simple truth: we cannot afford to keep building homes that belong in the past. The homes that we construct today must be fit for the future, energy efficient, affordable to heat and resilient in the face of climate change. Let us be honest: we have known for years that our housing stock is among the least efficient in the islands. We know that retrofitting is expensive and disruptive and can be slow, and we know that every home that we build today is a retrofit waiting to happen at a cost that we cannot afford, so why are we still building homes that will need fixing? The motion calls on the Minister for Communities, the Minister who is in charge of housing, to bring forward proposals that will embed higher energy-efficiency standards and renewable energy integration into the fabric of our social housing. Those should be the foundations that inform the next building regulations, because that is where real and lasting change happens.

Alliance believes that we will continue to fail to deliver the housing that Northern Ireland needs unless leadership is shown. I am calling on the Minister for Communities, as the Minister responsible for housing, to stop dithering and to take forward actions. Whilst I appreciate that the Departments of Finance and Infrastructure would take forward the building regulations, there is an opportunity for the Minister for Communities to be proactive and drive changes by producing a blueprint for what people require homes to include. We have the technology and the expertise. What we now need is the courage to lead. By raising standards, we can slash energy bills for families who most need it. We can cut carbon emissions to meet our legal obligations under the Climate Change Act (Northern Ireland) 2022. We can create thousands of skilled jobs in construction, green technology and energy services, and we can build homes that are warm, dry and dignified, not just for today but for generations to come.

This is not about insulation and solar panels; it is about social justice, fairness and ensuring that social housing tenants, who are often the most vulnerable in society, are not left behind in the transition to a low-carbon future. I went to Four Winds to look at a private development that is up to Passive House standard. In that development, the average general running costs for a month is £80, and that is for a four-bedroom home that charges electric cars. Heat, light, everything — £80. How much would it help vulnerable families if they had to pay only £80 to run their household? We cannot continue to treat energy efficiency as a luxury. It is a necessity, and it is a right. Let me be clear: this is not about adding cost; it is about adding value. The upfront investment in better standards pays for itself many times over in lower bills, healthier homes and a cleaner environment. We have a moral obligation to act, because every delay means more families trapped in fuel poverty, more emissions locked in and more public money spent on retrofitting homes that should have been built right the first time.

Imagine a Northern Ireland where every new social home was a model of sustainability, where our buildings delivered energy efficiency, ensuring that fuel poverty became a problem of the past, and we were known not for lagging behind but for leading the way. That vision is within reach but only if we choose it. Instead of building homes that are obsolete on the day that they are finished, let us build homes that are warm, affordable and future-proofed. Let us pass the motion and ensure that the next building regulations reflect the ambition, urgency and compassion that our citizens need. Those building regulations need to be driven by communities, as they know what people who live in those homes need.

I do not want to have to look back in 10 years and regret the houses being built today. Let us not have to explain to future generations why we chose short-term savings over long-term energy security and sustainability. The question before us is not whether we can afford to raise our standards; it is whether we can afford not to. Indeed, today, at the launch of the Simon Community report 'Childhood Adversity and Homelessness in Northern Ireland', it was confirmed that we can no longer afford to have the housing system that we currently have. We are going to be the first Assembly that will see 100,000 people on a waiting list for a social home. That is shameful. That is a record-breaking shame. The question before us is not whether we can afford to raise our standards; it is whether we can afford not to. I do not think that we can. It would be shameful if the only things growing in this mandate were waiting lists.

We need to ensure that what we build is sustainable, and, Minister, this is where you have to act. I do not want to hear, "Building regulations are not my responsibility". I want to hear how you are making sure that the significant investment being made in new homes is on residential properties fit for the future and not based on out-of-date standards. It may fall to another Department to take forward the regulations, but surely Communities should be driving the need for better housing standards and design. If the Assembly agrees the motion, it will send a clear message to the Executive to work to shape the next building regulations with ambition and ensure that every home that we build is a promise to keep to our people, to our planet and to the future.

I will make a comment about the amendments that are before us today. I cannot accept the DUP amendment because it shows lack of courage and a lack of ability to accept the law that is already in place about climate change. I cannot accept the Ulster Unionists' amendment because, to be honest, it is so far away from the initial intention of the motion that I have no idea why it is there — perhaps another motion on another day. I can accept the SDLP amendment because it talks in the same frame as Alliance, and the SDLP may as well have lifted the wording from the presentation that we got at Committee last Thursday, so well done on that one. That is it, Principal Deputy Speaker. It is over to the House to debate.