Northern Ireland Assembly, 8 September 2025

389 contributions from 60 members. The official report.

Assembly Business

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

I inform Members that the Budget (No. 2) Bill received Royal Assent on 28 July. It will be known as the Budget (No. 2) Act (Northern Ireland) 2025, and it is Chapter 4.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

I am sorry to inform the House that one of our former colleagues Tommy Gallagher died on 17 July at the age of 82. Tommy was one of the first Members to come into the Assembly in 1998 — he is in that famous picture — and was here until 2011. He served on the Committees, including the Committee for Education and the then Committee for Health, Social Services and Public Safety. Prior to that, from 1989, he served on Fermanagh District Council for many years. He was also a teacher for 30 years. So, he represented and served the public in a wide and varied range of areas over the years.

My recollection of Tommy was that, in spite of the fact that he travelled from Belleek every day, which is at least a two-hour drive, he seemed to get here before everybody else did. His dedication to his role as an MLA was second to none. He always spoke on education; he was absolutely driven by the issues surrounding education.

As Speaker, I extend my personal sympathies to the Gallagher family and to the SDLP on the loss of one of their esteemed colleagues.

Matthew O'Toole (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

It is with sadness but also immense respect and gratitude for the life of Tommy Gallagher that I rise to lead the tributes today. Thank you, Mr Speaker, for giving us the opportunity today to share some words and reflections on the passing of Tommy Gallagher.

Tommy was an extraordinary man. He was part of a generation that, in some cases, we are now losing: one that, through the darkest days, helped to stand for the values of peace, reconciliation and justice and then helped to craft the peace that we enjoy today. As you said, Mr Speaker, Tommy had one of the longest commutes to the Assembly, from his home in Belleek. That is something that he shared with my Committee counterpart Jemma Dolan, who knows how long a drive that is to serve the people who sent you here. In many ways, Tommy's connection to that Belleek community was what stuck with him.

He was born on the Donegal/Fermanagh border in 1942. He had a passion for GAA, which was a thread that ran through his professional and personal life, but he was also an educationalist. As you said, Mr Speaker, he taught for decades at St Mary's High School in Brollagh. Not only did he teach there but he coached GAA. Brollagh became a force in Fermanagh schools GAA — a force that probably belied its relative size. He was committed to that.

In the 1990s, he was brought into the talks team by John Hume and Seamus Mallon. He was passionate about education, but also passionate about North/South issues. Being not just a border MLA but a border resident, he knew about the potential of not just reconciliation but better working across the border for the good of those communities. He fought hard for those communities for years as an SDLP representative. When it came to getting electricity and expanding the NIE Networks service to areas in rural Fermanagh, roads or anything else, Tommy was a diligent and proud local representative in Fermanagh.

Those of us who serve here will know that sometimes this place can be stressful and challenging. You are not sure whether you are prioritising the right things or doing the right things. Over the past year or two, I regularly received text messages from Tommy Gallagher, who kept abreast of everything that was happening in politics, both in Stormont and on this island. Those were encouraging text messages, but sometimes they came with a suggestion about an issue that I might want to focus on, particularly in relation to education. Given his background as an educationalist, he retained a profound interest in education and its possibilities for transforming people. We are in his debt.

He was an extraordinary Irishman, an extraordinary Fermanagh man and an extraordinary educationalist and public representative. His friends, colleagues and comrades in the SDLP continue to thank him and his family for his service. He is survived by his wife, Eileen, and their children, Clora, Thomas, and Donogh. May his gentle soul rest in peace.

Jemma Dolan (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I join the SDLP in paying tribute to Tommy Gallagher — someone who gave so much of his life to serving the public. Tommy was, first and foremost, a Fermanagh man. He knew the struggles and the strengths of rural life because he lived them, and he carried that understanding into his work as a councillor and an MLA. We may have come from different political traditions but that never stopped Tommy from being respectful every time we met. He always asked how I was finding the job, the travel and the constituency work. He knew the ups and downs of MLA life, and he believed in representing our community as best he could. That is something that deserves recognition regardless of politics.

Many in the Belleek area, including my parents, remember Tommy from his teaching days in Brollagh, but he had retired by the time that I joined the school. If people did not know Tommy through education or politics, they recognised him from his sporting achievements on the GAA field.

For those of us in public life today, there is a lesson in Tommy's example. We will all be remembered, not for the arguments that we won or lost but for the way that we carried ourselves and the respect that we showed to others. In that sense, Tommy leaves behind a legacy that we would all do well to follow.

On behalf of Sinn Féin, I extend my heartfelt condolences to his wife, Eileen, his children, Thomas, Donogh and Clora and the wider Gallagher family. I will miss seeing Tommy at events around Belleek. May he rest in peace.

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

It was with great sadness that we learned of the passing of Tommy Gallagher. I served with Tommy in the Assembly from 2007 to 2011, and found him to be a man who was not only a dedicated public servant but someone who demonstrated great warmth and kindness.

Throughout his years as a public representative, Tommy worked tirelessly for the people of Fermanagh and South Tyrone. He was passionate about his community, especially rural areas, and he championed better healthcare, education and opportunities for local families.

Beyond his political career, Tommy will be remembered for the person he was. He had a warmth and generosity of spirit that were endearing. He was approachable, genuine and deeply committed to helping others. Even at times of disagreement, he sought understanding, which is a quality that earned him respect right across the Chamber and far beyond.

On behalf of the Democratic Unionist Party, let me say that our thoughts and prayers continue to be with Tommy's family, friends and former colleagues. His legacy remains in this place and across his beloved Fermanagh.

Stewart Dickson (Alliance, East Antrim)

On behalf of the Alliance Party, I pass on our condolences to the Gallagher family and to Tommy's colleagues and former colleagues in the SDLP.

I first met Tommy Gallagher through my involvement in local government. We often attended a range of training courses and other events for councillors, and I always found Tommy to be a powerful advocate for peace and reconciliation, coming as he did from a constituency that bore a heavy burden of the Troubles.

Tommy was always friendly and engaging in the world of local government. He was passionate about his community of Belleek and his roots in Ballyshannon. As Members said, he was an educator, and he taught in St Mary's High School, Brollagh, for nearly 30 years. Tommy made a very important contribution to the long and difficult road to the Good Friday Agreement. He was, as Members stated, a senior and trusted negotiator for the SDLP. I was fortunate to know him and have many conversations with him during those times and in those talks.

In describing the talks process, Tommy said:

“Quite clearly, we've had these difficulties. My message remains strongly that violence is counterproductive. It's so obvious, and the people who engage in violence must realise, the losers are their own communities that they live in.”

I joined the Assembly in 2011 as Tommy left it. He was a highly respected Member of the Assembly. His legacy will be an enduring commitment to peace and reconciliation and to making this place work. I send my condolences to his family and comrades.

Diana Armstrong (UUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I have listened to the warm tributes that are being paid to Tommy Gallagher, who served the people of Fermanagh and South Tyrone with passion as their MLA for over a decade. Tommy was a kind and humble Fermanagh man who was always proud of his Fermanagh roots. He had a willingness to reach across the political divide in pursuit of a better future for the whole community, which, sometimes sadly, is something that is not always seen today. My Fermanagh colleagues and I recognised that Tommy was a man of conviction and decency who cared deeply for this place and its people and someone whom we could work with to achieve better outcomes for the west.

His achievements were worthy. He was instrumental in key decisions, notably on the location of the Waterways Ireland headquarters in Enniskillen and in campaigning alongside the community to bring the South West Acute Hospital to the area. However, his heart was always in Belleek, where he worked tirelessly on local economic and heritage projects, most recently through the Belleek Development and Heritage Group.

When I encountered Tommy, he always greeted me with the same warm, genuine smile and asked how I was getting on in politics. He was a man who brought people with him with no need to be in the spotlight. He was highly respected as a decent man, and he will be remembered with great affection.

On behalf of the Ulster Unionist Party, I extend my heartfelt condolences to his wife, Eileen, children, wider family circle and his former comrades.

Daniel McCrossan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, West Tyrone)

Following colleagues from across the House, I pay tribute to a man who gave so much of himself to others. Tommy was, first and foremost, an educator. He dedicated years of his life to the classroom, shaping and inspiring the next generation of young people. His work as a teacher left an indelible mark on countless young people, many of whom went on to speak of the encouragement and guidance that they received from him. That instinct to nurture, care and help others to fulfil their potential carried over seamlessly into his political life and journey.

Tommy entered politics at a very difficult time in our history.

It took courage, conviction and a deep sense of responsibility to stand forward for public life in those years, but that was the measure of the man. He believed that politics could be a force for good. He believed passionately in using his voice to represent the people of Fermanagh and South Tyrone.

As a founding member of the SDLP in Fermanagh, Tommy embodied the values of civil rights, fairness and non-violence. He worked to tackle rural neglect, to improve the infrastructure and public services that communities relied on and to ensure that the people in border areas were not left behind. He was particularly passionate about better roads and better healthcare and opportunities for so many young people.

Tommy was first elected to Fermanagh District Council in 1989 and then, later, to the Assembly, where he served with distinction. In Stormont, he carried himself with dignity, humility and purpose. He was never a man for grandstanding, but he was always a man for principle. His contributions were measured, thoughtful and deeply rooted in the needs of his constituents. Tommy never lost sight of what politics is ultimately about: improving the lives of people, standing up for those without a voice and making sure that government works fairly for everyone. That was Tommy Gallagher to his core.

Those of us who had the privilege of knowing him will remember more than his politics. We remember his warmth, decency, humour and generosity of spirit. He had a way of putting people at ease, finding common ground even in difficult debates and situations and reminding us all that at the heart of all our arguments and divisions were real people with real-life needs. The tributes that have poured in since his passing are testament to the impact that he has made not only as a dedicated public servant but as a neighbour, a friend and a family man. His community respected him, the Assembly respected him and his colleagues across political divides respected him. That respect was earned through decades of service and integrity.

On behalf of the SDLP and personally, I extend deepest sympathies to Tommy's wife, Eileen, his family and their friends. Their loss is immense, but I hope that they can take comfort and have pride in knowing that he leaves behind a powerful legacy of service, decency, courage and compassion. Fermanagh is poorer for his loss, as is the Assembly, but we are all richer for having had the example of Tommy Gallagher before us. May he rest in peace.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

Thank you, Mr Speaker, for your kind and respectful comments about Tommy and for facilitating the opportunity to pay our collective respects to him and the entire family.

Tommy was a good friend to many, me included, and a mentor to many in his role as teacher, community advocate, public representative and stalwart GAA supporter, coach and player in football and hurling. Of course, he was delighted with the recent progress of some of his local teams. For Tommy, his teaching life was a vocation to inspire, nurture and help people. Therefore, it was no surprise that Tommy went on to become an elected representative, first as a councillor and then an MLA. He was driven by a passion for helping people, looking after people and serving the community that elected him and by a deep, deep commitment to achieving peace by the only method by which it could eventually be achieved: a peaceful methodology.

More recently, Tommy was on the phone to me about people who had a problem or a particular issue in his locality that needed a bit of a push. He was always there to help and support people. If anyone turned to him for help, he gave his time willingly and freely and used whatever means he could to help that person along their journey. During the negotiations that ultimately led to the Good Friday Agreement, Tommy's dedication to peaceful means and achieving a peaceful outcome was prevalent.

Tommy was a man of great faith; indeed, he visited Lourdes a short time before his death. He was deeply committed to his faith. Tommy was also a dedicated family man. Anyone who spent any time in his presence would know that and learn that from him. He was deeply, deeply committed to his wife, Eileen; his children Clora, Thomas and Donogh; and his grandchildren and wider family. That was so obvious to anyone who spent any time in his presence. To them, we offer our deepest heartfelt sympathies. Ar lámh dheis Dé go raibh anam Tommy.

[Translation: May Tommy’s soul rest at the right hand of the Father.]

Mark Durkan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

I rise with a heavy heart to pay tribute to a man whose life was defined by service, sincerity and solidarity: Tommy Gallagher.

Tommy epitomised the values of the SDLP. He was not just a politician, as we have heard; he was a múinteoir

[Translation: teacher]

a mentor and a friend to so many. In the classroom, on the GAA pitch and, later, in the Assembly, he led by example with dílseacht

[Translation: loyalty]

and meas

[Translation: deep respect]

for everyone. He gave a voice to the people of Fermanagh and South Tyrone, especially during times of great difficulty. Amid that darkness, Tommy worked for peace with quiet determination, helping to lay the foundations for a more hopeful future.

Tommy was one of those rare public figures who never sought headlines, yet his contribution to public life was immense. His decency transcended party lines; his compassion knew no bounds; and his impact, especially on young people, will live long beyond his years. Ní bheidh a leithéidí arís ann.

[Translation: We shall not look upon his like again.]

To Eileen and all the Gallagher family I say that your loss is deeply felt not only in your home, not only in our party, but across this island. Tommy's legacy is not just in what he did; it is in how he made people feel: respected, heard and valued. May we carry that legacy forward with pride. Go ndéana Dia trócaire ar a anam uasal.

[Translation: May God grant mercy on his soul.]

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

Thank you. That concludes tributes to the late Tommy Gallagher.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

Just before we move to Members' Statements, I regret that I have to raise this issue again: it is the principle that Ministers should bring significant announcements to this Chamber first and foremost. As we went into the summer recess, it was raised with me in connection with the Infrastructure Minister making announcements to the media in the Great Hall about the A5 but not coming to the Chamber. Last week, the Minister of Health made an announcement on a review of gender identity services by press statement, with no written statement to Members and no request to come to the House today. For that reason, I have accepted a question for urgent oral answer that will be dealt with later. Then, this morning, the Minister of Education gave an interview on the BBC about changes to gender identity guidance and policies in schools, but, again, there was no request to come to the House. I anticipated that Members might have sought to table a question for urgent oral answer today on that — had they, I would have accepted it — but I am sure that Members will take the opportunity to raise the issue at Question Time.

I cannot be clearer that the role of the Assembly is to hold Ministers to account. While there is a role for written statements, Ministers should, as much as possible, bring policy changes to the House first and foremost so that they can be questioned by you on behalf of the public, so I will, unfortunately, be writing to Ministers again. I have to say that it is not the best start to our business. Nonetheless, I will seek to hold Ministers to account on behalf of you, the Members.

Members' Statements

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Members will be aware of a number of sectarian and racist attacks in the lower Oldpark area of north Belfast before the recess in May of last year. As recently as last week, residents were subjected to those horrifying attacks again. The terrified victims in the middle of all that need to hear our joint condemnation.

I thank Nuala McAllister, one of the MLAs for North Belfast, and Jordan Doran, a DUP councillor, for attending a multi-agency meeting last week that my colleague John Finucane called. That was an opportunity for everyone there to call out sectarianism and racism. Today, I wish that we all stand together and call for that collective condemnation. In 2025, we are dealing with families who are barricading themselves behind their front and back doors in the evening, and that is completely unacceptable.

Those families, and their extended families, are not sleeping. They are terrified. Their mental health is under massive pressure. I once again call out those sectarian and racist attacks without equivocation. No ifs, ands or buts: they need to stop.

My final appeal is for individuals who go to the media without talking to families or having concern for the wider community please to stop. That, too, is causing stress.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

A lot of Members are looking to make statements today. If they can keep them as short as possible — Ms Ní Chuilín's was only two minutes — we will get more in.

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

I am absolutely delighted to welcome the decision by my colleague Paul Givan, the Education Minister, to withdraw the transgender guidance that was issued to schools in Northern Ireland. It is a significant and commendable step that reflects a commitment to clarity, fairness and the recognition of biological reality in our education system. It is also common sense. I asked for that guidance to be reviewed when I was Education Minister, then at the start of this mandate and again when Dr Cass issued her interim report, so I am pleased that we are now seeing its withdrawal. The withdrawing of the guidance ensures that schools are not compelled to adopt policies that conflict with biological facts.

Importantly, the decision provides reassurance that single-sex spaces, including school sports facilities, changing rooms and toilets, can remain protected, where appropriate, in accordance with safeguarding considerations and biological sex. That is particularly fundamental for the safety and privacy of young girls. Furthermore, teachers and pupils will not be placed under pressure to use language, such as pronouns, that denies biological fact. That upholds the rights to freedom of belief and expression for all members of the school community and avoids compelling speech that may conflict with personal convictions or scientific understanding.

The Minister's decision follows careful consideration of the judgement issued in For Women Scotland Ltd v The Scottish Ministers and the important legal implications that that case holds for departmental policy. It is right that educational guidance in Northern Ireland align with legal precedent and provide schools with a clear and lawful framework to support all pupils while respecting the rights of every individual. Any future guidance must be developed with due regard for biological reality, legal obligations and the welfare of all children. It is a common-sense decision that lets kids be kids.

Nuala McAllister (Alliance, Belfast North)

I highlight the unacceptably long waiting times that patients who need for red-flag cancer referrals face, but, today, I will talk specifically about breast cancer. Most people will be aware of this, but, if they are not, the target for starting treatment for any diagnosis of breast cancer is within 31 days of a decision to treat. The longer that a patient waits for a decision to treat, the worse that it is for that patient. I am talking not just about the cancer diagnosis but about the social and mental impact on the patient.

Over the summer, we looked forward to hearing from the Department of Health and the South Eastern Health and Social Care Trust (SEHSCT) about their tackling of the regional waiting list. After writing to the South Eastern Trust, we were told to go to the strategic planning and performance group (SPPG). After writing to the SPPG, we were told to go to the Minister. I had already been to the Minister, however. I had asked his Department about how exactly we were tackling the regional waiting list, only to be referred to the trust. It is a game of pass the parcel. It is a buck to be passed between the Department and trusts.

Ultimately, at the end of the statistics are patients. My constituency office has been working with some of those patients. One in particular, instead of sitting in stress and anxiety, took it upon herself to contact all her elected reps. She is in such stress because she sees her symptoms every single day yet is having to wait.

I am grateful that she has now received an appointment, but it is outside the time frame. We need to ensure that no other patient has to wait more than nine weeks — more than six weeks — for a red-flag cancer referral. I hope that the Department and the Minister can come to the Chamber and address the issues without again passing the buck.

Diana Armstrong (UUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I rise on behalf of the community of Maguiresbridge in County Fermanagh, where the shadow of heartbreak Iingers on, with the community united by the unimaginable loss of three cherished lives: Vanessa Whyte, Sara Rutledge and James Rutledge. In the silence that is left behind, the community remembers not just the sorrow but the love, laughter and light that they brought to the lives of those who knew them. Their memory is defined not by the tragedy but by the warmth that they gave, the bonds that they built and the legacy of love that endures beyond the pain. That is why I want to place on record my heartfelt condolences to the families of those involved in the tragedy as they navigate their way through this difficult time.

I pay tribute to the workers from the emergency services who attended the scene at Drummeer Road that morning. We owe them respect and gratitude for the professional way in which they conducted their roles in the most difficult circumstances. I am aware that their attendance at the scene has had a profound impact and that counselling services are ongoing for those professionals who require it. I commend the local clergy, churches, schools, Gaelic clubs and Women's Aid for comforting friends, neighbours and the hundreds of mourners who attended the vigil and the funeral service in Maguiresbridge. Enniskillen Royal Grammar School, where James and Sara were pupils, opened its doors to the friends of the young victims and to special counselling professionals from the Education Authority to ensure that the young people could have an opportunity to talk about their sense of loss and the fear that they were feeling.

The sense of shock and loss following that horrific event still resonates, and we must say collectively, "Never again". Violence against women and domestic violence is a scourge on society, and we cannot fail more women and children. We must turn words into action and act to make this place safer. Our heartfelt sympathies remain with the families and friends of Vanessa, James and Sara.

Matthew O'Toole (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

Mr Speaker, I welcome back you and all our Assembly colleagues after a long summer break during which not much happened. The public of Northern Ireland might not have noticed that this place was not here, because not much has been delivered since we returned in February 2024. There has been a litany of failure by the four-party Executive. The Executive are not just failing; they are comatose. They appear to be somnolent and inert, and nothing is happening. The public out there were promised change and clear action back in February 2024, but nothing has happened and nothing is happening. Levels of public trust in the Executive are at rock bottom, but it does not have to be like this.

As a constructive Opposition, we are robust, and will continue to be so, in challenging the Executive. Today, we set them six simple tests. They should not be difficult or impossible, because they are the tests that they set themselves. They are either based on things in the Programme for Government or are official targets. Can this four-party Executive pledge that, by the end of the mandate, waiting lists for cancer treatment — Miss McAllister spoke about that earlier — and waiting lists in emergency departments will be coming down and that we will have met the targets that are set out in law? Can they promise that work will have started on the life-saving A5 and the landmark Casement Park? Can they promise that nutrients flowing into Lough Neagh will be reducing? Can they promise that the Executive will have delivered 6,000 social homes by 2027? Can they promise that childcare costs will be lower for working families than when the Executive came in? This is perhaps the most obvious test of all: can they promise that they will still be here and that there will still be an Executive in 2027?

Those should not be difficult questions, but, for the Executive, they probably are, because they are failing to deliver on all those things. We set out those six tests today not to be oppositional or difficult but to ask simple questions on behalf of the public of Northern Ireland, who deserve better. Can the Executive deliver for them, be honest with them and do right by them? We have set the tests today. Let us see the Executive follow.

Áine Murphy (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I rise to speak about the devastating and senseless murders of Vanessa Whyte and her two beloved children, James and Sara, that happened in the summer.

Our first thoughts must be with the wider family circle, friends and neighbours of Vanessa, James and Sara. All three were active members of their beloved St Mary's Maguiresbridge Gaelic Football Club and St Patrick's Lisbellaw Hurling Club, where their absence will be felt deeply on the field and the sidelines. James and Sara were known for their energy, enthusiasm and determination, whilst Vanessa was not only a devoted mother but a friend, colleague and neighbour whose warmth touched so many.

Of course, it is not the first time that such an incident has faced the people of south-east Fermanagh. In 2017, Concepta Leonard was murdered by her ex-partner. She was a loving mother, a musician and a friend to many, whose life was needlessly taken. Remembering Concepta, Vanessa, James and Sara reminds us of the lives, full of love, potential and generosity, that were lost through tragedy and cut short by needless violence. I acknowledge the emergency services, local clergy, schools and community groups that rallied around those who were most affected to support them. Their quiet dedication in the most distressing of circumstances rightly deserves our recognition.

We must take time to reflect on the fact that, once again, the brutal loss of life has brought to the fore urgent and, rightly, uncomfortable questions about how we, as a society, address violence against women, girls and children and the devastating impact of domestic violence. Proper resourcing needs to be provided to front-line organisations like Women's Aid and other vital support services that are at the coalface of supporting women and their families through domestic violence and abuse. The Department of Justice and the Department of Health must implement the recommendations that are made on their approach and that of statutory agencies and the role that they play at a multi-agency level.

Out of this darkness, there must be a renewed determination across all sections of our society to end gender-based violence and ensure that our constituents feel safe and protected in their homes and communities. Today, we remember Vanessa, James, Sara, Concepta and all victims of domestic abuse and gender-based violence.

Gary Middleton (DUP, Foyle)

I pose this question: what should be the role of an elected representative? Is it to serve constituents, advocate for local interests and try to make life better for our communities? The sad reality in the Londonderry City and Strabane District Council area is that nationalist parties and independent republicans increasingly see it as being their role to spend hours virtue-signalling on issues that they cannot control yet spend mere minutes on things that they can control. Our council area tops the league table in almost every area that you would not want it to: economic inactivity, unemployment and deprivation, to name but a few. Yet time and time again, their focus has been on every issue rather than on trying to address the concerns that matter to people. There have been decades of control by the SDLP and Sinn Féin in the council, and, alongside the MP position, the area's Assembly seats are held by a nationalist majority, yet we continue to lag behind.

Tomorrow, a jobs fair is due to take place at the Foyle Arena in the Waterside area of my constituency. Jobs fairs are an excellent opportunity for employers to meet potential employees all under one roof. However, one of the most significant employers, the Ministry of Defence and our armed forces sector, has been told that it is not welcome there by the SDLP, Sinn Féin and independents. The short-sightedness and downright bigotry of that position is shameful. To seek to deny people in my constituency the right to engage with that employer is disgraceful. Once again, there is a complete and utter failure of leadership from nationalism in my constituency.

When a unionist colleague spoke of the importance of the military to them and their family and of the valuable jobs that are on offer, they were told by an SDLP councillor:

"That's grand for your family, but it's not right to make it personal in how it makes you feel".

That is the crux of the issue. Dehumanising those who are impacted on might be easier on the conscience of those representatives, but it does not change the reality. Unionists are just about tolerated by the nationalist leadership in our city. Even small gestures are too big for some.

What happened when a portrait of His Majesty The King was offered to the council following the coronation? "You can have it, but not on our premises", was the message. Coronation celebrations? "Do it, but do not involve us", was that message. A jobs fair? "Yes, we can have it, but with only those employers who conform to our outlook", was the message there. That is the reality for unionists in my constituency. There are those who talk of the Derry model, but if that is the model that nationalists seek for their shared island, they are even more deluded than I thought.

For the record, I am very proud of our armed forces, whether for helping out during the pandemic, defusing bombs that terrorists left or defending all our freedoms across the globe. Their devotion and sacrifice stand in stark contrast to those who seek to drag us back.

Danny Donnelly (Alliance, East Antrim)

I will take a moment to celebrate one of East Antrim's rising stars, 13-year-old Preston Creighton. Preston represents the renowned Evolution Boxing Club in Carrickfergus, which is a club with a proud tradition of producing champions, and he is already living up to that legacy.

In just his first year of competition, he has stepped into the ring 18 times, including for six international bouts, and he has risen to the challenge every time. He won the Antrim Championship four times, and, in Naples, he represented County Antrim with two outstanding performances. He has gone toe to toe with boxers from Scotland and Wales. Most impressively, he won the international gold at the Monkstown Box Cup, defeating Finland's national champion. That is an incredible record for anyone, never mind someone of just 13 years of age.

We can all admire Preston's hard work, determination and talent, and I have no doubt that he has a very bright future in the sport. On behalf of everyone here, let me say congratulations, Preston. You have already done Carrickfergus, County Antrim and Northern Ireland proud, and we will be cheering you on in the years ahead.

Danny Baker (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I stand here to be a voice for children with special educational needs, who continue to be left behind. Before the recess, I tried everything that I could to have the Minister of Education come to the House and communicate to families his plan for children who did not have placements. Before we went into the recess, the number of such children was in the hundreds, and that is what the headlines were about. Today, we could say, "The number is down to single digits, and that shows some sort of improvement", but the detail is in the weeds, because hundreds of those children will not be in school this week because their place is not ready. Sadly, some of those who were lucky enough to get placements were left at home this week because of transport issues.

This happens year-on-year. My first speech in the Chamber was about the need to prioritise special educational needs and early interventions, and I hoped that we would see improvements, but, unfortunately, we have not. That is simply not fair. It is not fair on those children, who are always left behind. We must ask these questions: why are they not being prioritised? Why do we not have a SEN-first approach to placements? Why, in 2025, do we not invest in high-tech IT for transport, given that a small number of staff are still working with pens and pieces of paper to map out routes? That is simply not good enough, and it shows where the priorities lie, which is certainly not with children with additional needs.

I will quickly make a wee point about one of my cases, because it maps out the journey that children will have if we do not take this seriously and start prioritising those children. Seeing a set of twins start at nursery should be the happiest time for a parent and grandparents. In one of my cases, one twin has additional needs, and the other, who is in the mainstream, does not. Guess who got the nursery place. The wee child with additional needs watches his sibling go off to school, and the child who probably needs the most interventions and the most support is left behind.

If we do not see change — if the Minister and the chief executive of the Education Authority do not get real on this — this is how that child's life will map out: come P1, their placement will be an issue, as it will be in the next transition year, when they go into first year. They will also have transport issues. Their parent will fight tooth and nail for support for that child, while the other child goes through the education system almost seamlessly. We need to stop that. We need an inclusive education system for all children. It is we who can deliver that. I want to work with the Minister and everybody in the House to make that a reality, but it will happen only if it is prioritised.

Joanne Bunting (DUP, Belfast East)

I rise to pay tribute to the Irish Guards in their 125th anniversary year, following a weekend of commemorative events. The Irish Guards are an extraordinary regiment, renowned for their bravery, loyalty, passion and willingness to serve King and country even unto death. Theirs is a proud and distinguished history of unwavering service, and this weekend fully demonstrated their deep roots in and strong connections and bonds to Northern Ireland. It was a joy and a privilege to celebrate the historic milestone with them.

There were a number of events to recognise such a significant occasion, which included beating the retreat ceremonies at Carrickfergus Castle and Edenmore, a remembrance service at the cenotaph at Belfast City Hall, a parade and concert in Bangor and, finally, a parade and laying-up of colours in my constituency of East Belfast yesterday. Everywhere they went, the soldiers on parade were cheered and greeted by large and enthusiastic crowds, wishing the young men and women well, delighted to pay tribute to them and their service, revelling in the ceremony, the music, the uniforms and the meaning and history of the occasion.

Yesterday was particularly poignant and certainly historic, as the ninth set of old colours, which were presented to the 1st Battalion by Her late Majesty Queen Elizabeth II on 6 May 2009, were laid up in a beautiful service. Many of us were honoured to be in attendance on such a meaningful and historic day. Meaningful because of what the colours represent to a regiment: the sacred flags that serve as the physical embodiment of a regiment's honour, spirit and heritage; the ever-present banner standing as a rallying point for loyalty and morale, with them in battle, on parade and everywhere in between — always a source of pride and inspiration; and a powerful reminder of those who went before and all that they gave.

I say "historic", because this is the first time that a regiment has laid up its beautiful colours anywhere on this island. For East Belfast to be chosen is inordinately special. Moreover, St Mark's Church in Dundela is, itself, a historic landmark, being the former church of CS Lewis. It was a privilege for those of us who were present to stand alongside serving personnel and veterans and their families to reflect, remember and give thanks.

We in the DUP are proud of those from Northern Ireland who, despite opposition and threat from some quarters, have chosen the noble career of service in the military. We understand the sacrifice that that requires, including being away from family and loved ones for sustained periods and often putting oneself in danger. We commend the regiment and those in it. We pray for them and for their safety. We are grateful to them for our freedom and for their service, and we honour those who made the ultimate sacrifice.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

I will follow on from those words, as I, like many of us over the weekend, had the opportunity to thank the Irish Guards for their service. There were two events that, in particular, touched our armed forces community and our veterans. The first one, of course, was the laying-up of the colours in St Mark's Church in Dundela. I have to make a declaration of interest as a parishioner of that fine church, which was CS Lewis's former church. I thank all those from East Belfast and beyond who lined the damp streets, the veterans of the Irish Guards, the battalion itself, the regimental padre and the Reverend Canon Dr Helene Steed, our rector, for such a memorable occasion.

My main thanks, however, go to you, Mr Speaker, and our wonderful Assembly staff for marking the 85th anniversary of the Battle of Britain. On Friday night, our Great Hall was filled to capacity by Northern and Southern Irish serving Royal Air Force members and veterans. It was particularly pleasing to welcome Brigadier General Rory O'Connor, the chief of staff of the Irish Air Corps, to the event. Few who were there will forget the stirring oration from Air Chief Marshal Harvey Smyth, who is head of the RAF and, surprisingly enough, a Lurgan College old boy. I have seen many of the original RAF artefacts that the Public Record Office of Northern Ireland (PRONI) displayed in the Senate Chamber. However, the fly-past by the Lancaster from the Battle of Britain memorial flight, with the roar of four Merlin engines, along the mile up to Stormont, clearly brought home the message of the debt that we owe to the few. Never has "Per ardua ad astra" — "Through adversity to the stars" — been more apt.

Daniel McCrossan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, West Tyrone)

The A5 project came to a grinding halt on 23 June 2025 as a result of a judicial review taken against the Department for Infrastructure.

Since then, the silence from the Sinn Féin Infrastructure Minister on that all-important issue has been deafening.

Several weeks ago, the Minister told the public that she would challenge the latest court ruling on the A5. Since then, all that we have heard is that an appeal has been submitted: no explanation, no plan, no indication whatever of how her Department intends to proceed or, crucially, how it intends to avoid making the exact same mistakes all over again. Families have not been updated, landowners have been left in limbo with their land in a terrible state, and accidents still happen on a daily basis.

It is not a minor scheme: the A5 is the most important infrastructure project in the North of Ireland. It will cost £1·7 billion to connect Tyrone, Derry and Donegal safely with the rest of the island, yet, for almost 20 years, the project has been stuck in delay, tied up in court challenges and mismanaged at every turn. More than 50 people — 50 innocent lives — have been lost on that road while Ministers and Departments have dithered, delayed and failed to get the project over the line.

The mistakes that have halted the A5 are unforgivable. They stink of complete, utter and absolute incompetence by the Department. Over the summer, we learned that DFI officials met DAERA on the issue of climate compliance not seven times, as they originally told us on paper, but 13 times. They had 13 meetings, and still the Department produced a scheme that could not survive a legal challenge; 13 meetings, and still they did not manage to get it right. If that is not incompetence, what is it? PAC recommendations were ignored. Where is the accountability for those who presided over the project and led to that terrible failure?

The Minister has chosen silence as a response, but silence will not comfort the families who have lost loved ones. Silence will not reassure the people of west Tyrone, Derry and Donegal, who continue to risk their lives by travelling on that road daily, and silence will not deliver the A5. Let us be clear to the Sinn Féin Infrastructure Minister: you must come out, give a statement and update people on where the project is. I have never heard such silence from Sinn Féin in West Tyrone on this so-called priority.

People's lives are at risk daily. Let us get the road built. Let us ensure that lives are saved and give the west what it truly deserves and has waited long enough for. It is time that the Minister got on with that job.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

I call Cheryl Brownlee. Confine your remarks to two minutes, please.

Cheryl Brownlee (DUP, East Antrim)

Thank you, Mr Speaker. Today, I speak about something that matters deeply to the Democratic Unionist Party: the future of education in Northern Ireland and, in particular, the vital role of our controlled sector.

We have all heard a lot of debate recently around integrated education. While that discussion is important, too often it feels as if the controlled sector is pushed to the side, treated as if it somehow lacks ethos, respect or value. Let me be clear: that could not be further from the truth. It lacks absolutely nothing. Our controlled schools have a strong ethos built on inclusion, respect and community. They welcome children of all faiths and none. They are diverse and open, and they reflect the society that we want and need to build.

The Department of Education's latest paper on integrated education exposes a fundamental flaw. Despite decades of transformation efforts, integrated education has failed to deliver a genuine balance and falls short of the aspirational 40:40:20 split; in fact, some are now less balanced than they were when they first transformed. It is not just a failure in numbers; it is a failure of principle. The transformation process, in certain circumstances, has created a label without substance, whilst our controlled schools, which quietly and consistently welcome children from all backgrounds, are being left behind. Controlled schools are achieving integration in practice and not just in name, yet they are being denied the support that they need.

Unfortunately, time and time again, I see schools in the controlled sector in my constituency of East Antrim having to fight tooth and nail for the most basic of needs. For example, Carrickfergus Academy continues to operate across a split site, awaiting the central campus that it has been promised for years. That is not just an inconvenience: it is a barrier to cohesion and quality education.

(Madam Principal Deputy Speaker in the Chair)

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Time is up. Sorry. Thank you, Cheryl.

Assembly Business

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

The next item of business in the Order Paper is a motion from the Assembly Commission to appoint an Assembly Commissioner for Standards.

Andy Allen (UUP, Belfast East)

I beg to move

That this Assembly, in accordance with section 19(1) of the Assembly Members (Independent Financial Review and Standards) Act (Northern Ireland) 2011, appoints Mark McEwan as the Northern Ireland Assembly Commissioner for Standards.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

The Business Committee has agreed to allow up to 45 minutes for the debate. The proposer of the motion will have up to 10 minutes in which to propose and five minutes in which to make a winding-up speech. All other Members who are called to speak will have five minutes.

Andy Allen (UUP, Belfast East)

The Assembly Members (Independent Financial Review and Standards) Act (Northern Ireland) 2011 provides for the role of a Commissioner for Standards. It also provides for the commissioner's independence and powers, which include the same powers as the Assembly to call for witnesses and documents. The commissioner's primary role is to carry out investigations of complaints relating to the Assembly's code of conduct and the ministerial code of conduct and to report the outcome of those investigations to the Assembly. The role of the commissioner is therefore an important part of the framework for ensuring that high standards of conduct in public life are upheld in the Assembly. I thank the outgoing commissioner, Dr Melissa McCullough, for her service and dedication, particularly in managing her significant responsibilities amidst the additional challenges of the COVID pandemic and the period when the Assembly was not sitting.

The 2011 Act that provides for the office of the commissioner requires that the person to be appointed as Commissioner for Standards be:

"identified by fair and open competition".

The Assembly has delegated that function to the Assembly Commission. The recruitment panel comprised the Speaker, on behalf of the Assembly Commission; the Chairperson of the Committee on Standards and Privileges, Cathy Mason; the Clerk/Chief Executive, Lesley Hogg; and the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards at Westminster, Daniel Greenberg CB. The Assembly Commission thanks the Chairperson of the Committee on Standards and Privileges for her important involvement in the recruitment process. The Assembly Commission also particularly thanks Daniel Greenberg for giving of his time. The experience and expertise that he provided was of great assistance to the panel.

Having completed a rigorous recruitment competition, the Assembly Commission is delighted to nominate Mark McEwan as Commissioner for Standards for a period of five years, as set out in the 2011 Act. It is an important and significant role that requires expertise and sound judgement. Mark McEwan has 26 years' experience in policing, including serving in the Metropolitan Police in London and, most recently, as Assistant Chief Constable in the Police Service of Northern Ireland before his retirement in 2024. From his extensive policing career, Mr McEwan not only has extensive experience of conducting investigations, including of sensitive and high-profile cases, but was involved in overseeing processes to uphold professional standards and deal with misconduct. The Assembly Commission therefore believes that Mark McEwan has the appropriate skills and experience to undertake the responsibilities of commissioner effectively.

The Assembly Commission was pleased to table the motion on the appointment of a Commissioner for Standards, and I commend to the House the nomination of Mark McEwan as the Commissioner for Standards.

Cathy Mason (Sinn Féin, South Down)

I speak to the motion having sat on the Assembly's recruitment panel for the appointment of a new Commissioner for Standards as the Chairperson of the Committee on Standards and Privileges.

As Members are aware, the commissioner is an independent officer who is appointed by the Assembly to consider and investigate complaints of alleged breaches of the MLA code of conduct and the ministerial code of conduct. In fulfilling the role, the commissioner contributes to the overseeing and safeguarding of the ethical standards of MLAs and Ministers. The commissioner's independence is therefore essential to ensuring fairness, transparency, accountability and public trust in our standards regime.

The process for investigating complaints is designed in such a way that allegations of breaches of the MLA or ministerial codes of conduct go directly to the commissioner for assessment of admissibility and, where applicable, for investigation. For complaints against MLAs, the Committee then considers the commissioner's investigation reports, determines whether a breach of the code has occurred and, where appropriate, recommends to the Assembly the sanction to be imposed. The commissioner, the Committee and the Assembly therefore exercise the complementary functions of investigation, adjudication and sanctioning respectively, and each has a key part to play in ensuring that appropriate and proper standards of conduct are upheld by Members of the Assembly. As such, in order to safeguard the timely exercising of the commissioner's functions, it is important that the Assembly ensures that the office of Commissioner for Standards remains filled, without undue interruption.

I take this opportunity to look back on and acknowledge the contribution of the outgoing commissioner, Dr Melissa McCullough, over the past five years. During her term, Dr McCullough addressed a range of challenges, including working through a three-year backlog of complaints, taking on additional functions in relation to ministerial complaints and taking initiatives to modernise the office of the commissioner, while dealing with a range of complex, sensitive and challenging cases. Dr McCullough did so professionally, engaging positively and empathetically with the Committee and with Members, generally. On behalf of the Committee, therefore, I put on record our thanks to and appreciation for Dr McCullough. The progress that she made in developing the office will provide a sound base upon which the new commissioner can build.

I expect that the other members of the Committee will welcome the appointment of Mark McEwan, as I do, and look forward to engaging with the new commissioner on progressing the vital work of implementing the Assembly's ethical standards system. On behalf of the Committee, I support the motion.

Connie Egan (Alliance, North Down)

As a member of the Committee on Standards and Privileges, I put on record my thanks to Dr Melissa McCullough as she leaves the role of the Assembly Commissioner for Standards. I found Melissa to be extremely professional and diligent in her role, and I always appreciated her willingness to engage with the Committee, explaining her findings and answering any questions that we had. I also welcome the appointment of Mark McEwan and wish him well as the incoming Commissioner for Standards. It is, without a doubt, a challenging position but an extremely important one.

Timothy Gaston (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

I preface my remarks by noting that the legislation under which we appoint Mr McEwan was only recently amended by the House. It was not, however, amended to tighten the rules on Members' conduct or to guarantee that the Commissioner for Standards would always investigate alleged misconduct — oh, no. It was amended to lay the foundations for a substantial MLA pay rise. We could have tightened the rules, but, sadly —.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Mr Gaston, the motion is not about the Assembly Commission but is about the Assembly Commission's appointing a new Commissioner for Standards. With respect, I ask that the Member please return to the subject of the debate.

Timothy Gaston (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Thank you very much, Principal Deputy Speaker. As I was saying, the House, sadly, decided to look with importance to the interests of Members' wallets instead of seeking a higher standard of Member conduct. That does nothing for the standing of the Assembly in the eyes of the public. I trust that Mr McEwan will learn from their expectations and from where his predecessor fell short.

I draw to the attention of Members what happened last week in Westminster, where there were questions about Angela Rayner's tax affairs. She was rightly referred to the ethics adviser, because it was recognised that that was the person for the job. What a contrast with what we have at Stormont. Let me remind the House of the Sinn Féin paedophile scandal around Michael McMonagle.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Mr Gaston.

Timothy Gaston (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

The case was not referred to the —

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Mr Gaston.

Timothy Gaston (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

— Commissioner for Standards.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Mr Gaston. For a second time, I am asking you to return your remarks to the subject that is being debated. It is not a case of you throwing in "standards commissioner" and saying whatever you want. I ask you again, with respect, to return to the subject in hand. If you continue to go outside of that, I will ask you to take your seat. Is that clearly understood?

Timothy Gaston (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Principal Deputy Speaker —

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Thank you.

Timothy Gaston (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

— it is very relevant to the debate. I am simply comparing what happens in Westminster with what we see in Stormont. Indeed, the case that I mentioned was not referred to the Commissioner for Standards, but, instead, to an insider: the Assembly's head of Legal Services. Unsurprisingly, when he delivered the report to the Assembly, it exonerated the First Minister. He could only do that by not interviewing a single person about the case, including journalists who knew that McMonagle had acted as a Sinn Féin press officer.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Mr Gaston, take your seat.

Timothy Gaston (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Principal Deputy Speaker —.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Mr Gaston, take your seat. It is the first day back. We are all eager to get into it, but I remind you and other Members that you need to stick to the subject in hand. I will give you plenty of flexibility as long as you are making sense and are relating what you are saying to the subject in hand. You have done neither of those things. I am going to move on.

Brian Kingston (DUP, Belfast North)

As a member of the Committee on Standards and Privileges, I reiterate the words of the Committee Chair in welcoming the appointment of the new commissioner, Mark McEwan. I wish him well in post, and the Committee will work diligently with him. I also join others who have paid tribute to Dr Melissa McCullough, the outgoing Commissioner for Standards. It is an important role, which is part of the public scrutiny of our role as MLAs. I found her work to be thorough and her investigations to have been carried out diligently. It is fair to say that even those Members who came to her attention and were found to have breached the code of conduct or its principles mostly accepted, with good grace, that there was an issue. In most cases, an apology was made, and in some cases, there were further consequences. It is an important role that allows people to see that scrutiny is taking place, both by a commissioner and the Committee members, who are acting independently to ensure that the codes and principles of conduct are upheld by MLAs and the Assembly. We welcome the new commissioner and look forward to working with him.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I call Nuala McAllister to conclude and make a winding-up speech on behalf of the Assembly Commission. Nuala, you have up to five minutes.

Nuala McAllister (Alliance, Belfast North)

Thank you, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. I thank Members for their contributions. I was not on the recruitment panel, but, as a member of the Assembly Commission, I am assured that there was an effective, rigorous and fair recruitment competition. I repeat the Assembly Commission's thanks to all those who participated in the process. I also repeat the appreciation, personally and from the Assembly Commission's perspective, for the rigorous and thoughtful way in which Dr Melissa McCullough approached her tenure. Everyone can agree that she was both professional and personable.

The Commissioner for Standards is crucial to upholding standards in the Assembly, and it is, therefore, important that the Assembly supports someone with the credibility and experience to undertake those significant responsibilities. As a corporate body, the Assembly Commission normally undertakes the recruitment of officers of the Assembly. However, the involvement of the Committee on Standards and Privileges is vital for this role, and I thank its Chairperson, Cathy Mason, who spoke at the beginning of the debate, for participating in the panel, and I welcome its support today. The Committee will want to build a strong and positive working relationship with Mark McEwan.

I want to point to an issue that was mentioned in one of the contributions: the role and remit of the commissioner.

The Commissioner for Standards works within the current legislative framework. That legislative framework has not been put before the House for it to change the roles and remit by the Assembly Commission. It would not be the responsibility of the Assembly Commission, so I want to put that on record.

It is important that the role gives the public confidence that any breach of the Assembly code of conduct or the ministerial code of conduct will be investigated and dealt with and that it gives Members confidence that any complaints will be considered through due and proper process.

Timothy Gaston (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Will the Member give way?

Nuala McAllister (Alliance, Belfast North)

Yes, sure.

Timothy Gaston (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

The Member talks about public confidence. When I made a complaint about a Chair, the previous commissioner said that she could not investigate said Chair. Will the Member ensure that, in order to instil confidence in the appointment, the new commissioner will not take the same view and that every MLA will be treated the same — they will be treated fairly, and no MLA will be above the law — when it comes to complaints being considered in the House?

Nuala McAllister (Alliance, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for his contribution. Just to be clear, no Member is ever above the law in the House. I know that the previous Assembly commissioner worked within the framework that she had and with regard to the proper processes, and I do not doubt that Mark McEwan will do the same. As a member of the Policing Board, I have personal experience of working with Mark in his previous role as Assistant Chief Constable. I know that he will work with professionalism and diligence. It is clear that he is well suited to ensuring that any allegations of breaches of the codes will be investigated.

Timothy Gaston (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Will the Member give way?

Nuala McAllister (Alliance, Belfast North)

I will not give way again; I am just finishing up.

On behalf of the Assembly Commission, I commend Members for the nomination of Mark McEwan for appointment as the new Assembly Commissioner for Standards, and I wish him all the best in his new role.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved:

That this Assembly, in accordance with section 19(1) of the Assembly Members (Independent Financial Review and Standards) Act (Northern Ireland) 2011, appoints Mark McEwan as the Northern Ireland Assembly Commissioner for Standards.

Committee Business

Gary Middleton (DUP, Foyle)

I beg to move

That, in accordance with Standing Order 33(4), the period referred to in Standing Order 33(2) be extended to 12 December 2025, in relation to the Committee Stage of the Insolvency (Amendment) Bill.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Thank you, Gary. The Question is — sorry, Gary, you are due to speak on this. Go ahead.

Gary Middleton (DUP, Foyle)

Thank you, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. I will be brief.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Apologies for horsing on.

Gary Middleton (DUP, Foyle)

You are fine.

As indicated at the Second Stage of the Insolvency (Amendment) Bill, the Committee's call for evidence was commenced over the summer recess, which was not ideal. Consequently, the Committee agreed that it would seek an extension of the Committee Stage until just before Christmas recess, as indicated in the motion.

I anticipate that we will conclude our deliberations well in advance of that. However, we will surely need some of the extra time owing to the lengthy and complex nature of the Bill, which runs to 121 clauses and four schedules.

On behalf of the Committee, I commend the motion to the House.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Thank you, Gary. No other Members have asked to speak.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved:

That, in accordance with Standing Order 33(4), the period referred to in Standing Order 33(2) be extended to 12 December 2025, in relation to the Committee Stage of the Insolvency (Amendment) Bill.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Members, please take your ease before we move to the next item of business.

(Mr Speaker in the Chair)

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

Apologies, Members. I did not expect to be back just so quickly. We will move to the next item of business.

Private Members' Business

David Brooks (DUP, Belfast East)

I beg to move

That this Assembly opposes the continued operation of the Windsor framework, including the application of EU law in Northern Ireland and the Irish Sea border that it creates; stresses that the present arrangements do not command cross-community support; expresses alarm that a recent UK-wide survey led by the Federation of Small Businesses (FSB) found that 58% of businesses were having moderate to significant challenges as a result of the framework and that over a third had already ceased trade in Northern Ireland; though they wish to move beyond current arrangements, condemns the Government’s refusal to dismantle border control posts whilst at the same time subjecting movements of business parcels, veterinary medicines and used agricultural machinery to EU law; further condemns the Government's refusal to implement pre-existing agreements; believes that the independent review of the Windsor framework was a missed opportunity to propose solutions that are radical in moving beyond the current arrangements; calls on the Government to urgently change course in order to protect businesses, consumers and the integrity of the UK internal market; and further calls on the Government to practically demonstrate their commitment to fully restoring Northern Ireland’s place in the UK by insisting on an end to the democratic deficit sustained by the Windsor framework.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

The Business Committee has agreed to allow up to one hour and 30 minutes for the debate. The proposer of the motion will have 10 minutes in which to propose and 10 minutes in which to make a winding-up speech. An amendment has been selected and published on the Marshalled List, so the Business Committee has agreed that 15 minutes will be added to the total time for the debate.

David Brooks (DUP, Belfast East)

Many of us will have engaged in good faith with Lord Murphy's review when he visited this place in the previous term. I met him in my role as the Deputy Chair of the Windsor Framework Democratic Scrutiny Committee and, later that day, as part of a delegation from my party. I feel that, even then, there was a sense that whatever was suggested would not stretch the Government's ambition to reform how the framework operates. Despite the fact that Lord Murphy clearly heard and understood some of the mechanical issues around the functioning of our Committee in particular, it is clear that the report has been a missed opportunity to press for the necessary fundamental reform of the framework. Beyond tinkering at the margins, there is clearly an unwillingness in London at this time to take on board anything, however valid and obvious, that causes frustration in Brussels. Perhaps I should be unsurprised. When I worked in the European Parliament for my colleague beside me, it seemed to me that Keir Starmer spent more of his time there, seeking to assist European efforts to undermine a democratically mandated Brexit for the UK as a whole, than he did in Westminster.

As our motion lays out plainly, the independent review of the Windsor framework, however well intentioned, has failed to address the obvious and extensive concerns that remain. The recommendations in the areas that require the most significant and urgent intervention are not filled with demands or pressing but merely meekly will the Government to "continue to do" all that they can, despite it being clear that the Labour Government are not currently showing and have never shown any intention of doing everything that they can to address the issues at hand. The framework risks being yet another exercise in glossing over the continued failure of successive British Governments to honour commitments and to address the problems faced economically and certainly constitutionally, if it has not already established itself as such.

Fundamentally, the framework continues to lack democratic legitimacy in Northern Ireland. It was by design, not by accident, that the framework was adopted without the accepted norm of our constitutional settlement of there being cross-community support in this place. Unionist MLAs and, thus, the unionist community were overridden and had their concerns sidelined. That was not democracy in action, and it was certainly not the system of anti-majoritarianism that has been hypocritically championed by London, Dublin and non-unionist parties in the Chamber since 1998, when it was thought that unionists would otherwise benefit. The December 2024 consent vote, which passed with a simple majority, triggered the independent review precisely because the system lacks the essential consent of the unionist community. The review, commissioned under statutory obligations, is set to become another layer of bureaucracy rather than a genuine vehicle for restoring parity of esteem for the unionist community. Unless it delivers —.

Matthew O'Toole (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

I thank the Member for giving way. He says that cross-community consent is a constitutional norm. Should it not therefore have applied to the concept of Brexit overall for the UK's leaving the EU? His colleague clearly does not agree, but, if it is a constitutional norm, why did it not apply to the central decision of leaving the EU?

David Brooks (DUP, Belfast East)

Brexit was established by a nationwide referendum — it was the largest democratic exercise ever carried out in the United Kingdom — so it was a very different proposition. I do not argue that a sovereign Parliament cannot overrule this place, as a devolved institution; I am saying that it should not, given the norms that have previously been established.

Let us be clear: unless the framework delivers real powers and protections, it merely entrenches the democratic deficit. I welcome the fact that Lord Murphy has listened to the concerns that all parties in this place raised about the accessing of information, the unrealistic timelines faced by the Democratic Scrutiny Committee, the need to have adequate staffing in relevant areas and the need for departmental points of contact to be empowered to speak to the Committee about areas as required. As I have said, however, the language on the more significant issues is weak.

The Government and Brussels should be aware that the oft-repeated sound bites of reverence for the Belfast Agreement and the peace process will be as a fig leaf if the fundamental basis of confidence on both sides of the community continues to crumble, while genuine appeals to secure the foundations of these institutions and the actions required to do so are treated with contempt.

Under the terms of reference set by the UK Government, Lord Murphy was asked to identify issues and make recommendations to command cross-community support. However, let us be clear: the terms of reference themselves presume legitimacy in the framework that simply does not exist. The framework maintains EU law supremacy in Northern Ireland in areas such as customs, VAT, state aid and even medicines regulations without unionist consent or an adequate time frame. The Stormont brake and the Democratic Scrutiny Committee are in place, but this party has always been clear that they are not enough in themselves and that there is more work to do. Current mechanisms are not a remedy to a sovereign Parliament electing to bypass cross-community consent when the protections afforded to nationalism become an inconvenience if wielded by unionism.

Unless the independent review assists the fulfilment of government promises and the full restoration of Northern Ireland's place within the UK internal market without the distorting overlay of EU law, it is fundamentally toothless. Moreover, as our motion outlines, recent findings from the Federation of Small Businesses (FSB) in Northern Ireland reveal the harsh realities of the framework's impact on small firms. Its comprehensive study found that 58% of businesses trading with Great Britain and Northern Ireland reported moderate to significant disruptions, while more than one third — 34% — had already ceased trading rather than grapple with the growing compliance burden. Even more alarming is that 56% of affected businesses lacked confidence in future planning and only 14% understood or benefited from the touted dual market access. We look forward to welcoming the FSB to the Windsor Framework Democratic Scrutiny Committee to discuss its concerns about widespread trade friction, low confidence —

Jonathan Buckley (DUP, Upper Bann)

I thank the Member for giving way. Does he agree that the survey is an indicator that the Windsor framework, whilst it has no consent from unionism in this place, is now widely discredited among businesses across the piece in Northern Ireland?

David Brooks (DUP, Belfast East)

Absolutely, and, when some of those organisations were supportive of the vote to remain, other parties in this place valued their input.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

I thank the Member for giving way. It is not just small businesses. The Member will be aware that Marks and Spencer — other supermarkets are available — has made it clear that the issues are not with just small businesses but with even the largest businesses across our nation.

Emma Sheerin (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Will the Member give way?

David Brooks (DUP, Belfast East)

I will make some progress, if that is OK.

I thank the Member for his intervention. Yes, I wholly agree, although I recall that, at a previous meeting of our Committee, when we invited the FSB to speak to us, a Sinn Féin member remarked that it was not the only stakeholder. While I agree with that, we know that it represents 89% of businesses in Northern Ireland, and I think that it would be concerned to hear the party that holds the economy brief being so dismissive.

The message seems clear that, rather than functioning as the economic lifeline that many in the Chamber extol, the framework is introducing confusion, cost and red tape, fracturing the UK internal market and undermining business confidence across the region. This party warned that that would be the case with the protocol, and the framework has not resolved those issues, not least because successive British Governments have failed to honour promises made. However, the British electorate at large will be as unsurprised as unionists in Northern Ireland that the current Government show scant regard for commitments made.

Unionists believe that the current arrangements continue to undermine sovereignty and seamless economic integration with the rest of the UK. Business and trade have been made not easier, as was heralded, but more complicated. What the independent review should have done was to confront the systematic distortions head-on, not merely document the inconveniences and encourage the Government to keep calm and carry on. It should have been bold enough to demand reforms to remove the EU impositions and remedy the issues that divide this nation, harm business and corrode community confidence in the very idea that the mechanisms within our devolved institutions can be trusted to be used in a fair and balanced way for both sides of the community.

My party leader, Gavin Robinson, noted correctly that the independent review must be an honest assessment rather than an exercise in papering over problems and that there must be more urgency in responding to unionist concerns.

That is not a request; it must be a demand. The DUP carries a clear mandate to continue to fight to fully restore Northern Ireland's place in our United Kingdom and remove any legislative or administrative apparatus that undermines it. We will not surrender from working to that end.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

I beg to move the following amendment:

Leave out all after "ceased trade in Northern Ireland" and insert: "notes that the recent independent review of the Windsor framework is a missed opportunity to recognise the trade, economic and sovereignty challenges to both Northern Ireland and to the integrity of the United Kingdom as a whole; further notes that the existing safeguards within the Windsor framework, including the democratic consent mechanism, the Stormont brake, voting against applicability motions within the Assembly, the oversight by the Windsor Framework Democratic Scrutiny Committee and the UK Government’s role in safeguarding the integrity of the United Kingdom have all failed to arrest continued divergence within the internal UK market, and further, that existing processes as introduced by HMRC and other agencies have added to the cost of doing business within Northern Ireland; is concerned that changes to sanitary and phytosanitary (SPS) and other germane regulations will not be fully discussed between the UK Government and the EU until 2027, with likely implementation not until 2028 and beyond; and calls on the UK Government to use the existing provisions within article 16 of the Windsor framework and pause all further implementation of the Windsor framework until after completion of the UK-EU reset negotiations in 2027, rather than blindly following the faithful implementation approach that is accelerating divergence within our nation."

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

Thank you. You will have 10 minutes to propose the amendment and five minutes to make a winding-up speech. All other Members who are called to speak will have five minutes. Please open the debate on the amendment.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

I ask the Assembly to support our amendment to the important motion. There is a subtle difference between what the DUP has proposed and what we are saying. I declare an interest as a Member who supported the Remain campaign and as somebody who was involved in discussions with the then Prime Minister, Rishi Sunak, to whom my party and I suggested the idea of a greater consent principle in the Northern Ireland Assembly. We even suggested that an Assembly Committee could act as part of that safeguard. For my sin of hubris, I now sit on the Windsor Framework Democratic Scrutiny Committee. As many of you have heard from me, or as those of you who have served on the Committee will know, it has categorically failed in its duties, in that it is barely democratic, it does not do much scrutiny, and, worst, for any Committee in the Northern Ireland Assembly, it is remarkably incurious about EU rules and regulations within the very wide remit of the Windsor framework and the Northern Ireland protocol, which is, in fact, growing.

It is to that point that our amendment speaks directly. Every Member here who is not blinded by pro-EU or pro-united Ireland ideology must see that the checks, balances and controls of the Windsor framework are not working. Although we welcome the work that Lord Murphy did in his recent report — indeed, we have called for the adoption of his recommendations — it does not go far enough. I know Lord Murphy. He and I have worked on various committees covering the alphabet soup of British-Irish relationships. I knew him before I was even involved in politics. Lord Murphy gets it. Lord Murphy understands the issues. Anybody who understands Lord Murphy, who has read the report closely or who gave evidence as part of the report process, like I and some others here did, will know that the clear point is that he knows that trade diversion is occurring. Trade diversion is not just occurring; it is accelerating.

We have heard many people say that a lot of the problems would be resolved by the SPS agreement. We have heard quite a lot of talk about the SPS agreement because it was going to answer the problems in a relatively short period of time. Indeed, that was going to happen in such a short period of time that the Welsh Government, who are, of course, Labour, consulted with the British Government, who are, of course, Labour as well, about spending significant amounts of extra public money on building border support facilities in places such as Holyhead and Fishguard. They have decided that, because of the SPS agreement's coming into place, there is no need whatsoever to spend that money, and, so, that money is not being spent. They have decided that that money can be used for other things, such as additional police, nurses and doctors. However, the Agriculture Minister here in Northern Ireland has stated on several occasions that he wishes to be a faithful implementer. The Secretary of State has used the words "faithful implementation" as well. Faithful implementation works on the assumption that it is going to happen fairly rapidly. My learned friend the Chair of the Agriculture Committee will probably talk to this when he is making his winding-up speech: the SPS agreement is not going to be enacted until about 2028, which is three years away. In the meantime, we will build border infrastructure — it is nearly finished — in Larne, Belfast, Warrenpoint and other places as part of the faithful implementation of that agreement, yet other parts of the United Kingdom will not be implementing it.

Diane Dodds (DUP, Upper Bann)

I thank the Member for giving way. You have described very eloquently the cost of border posts and the implementation of the agreement. However, that is only one element of it; we also have the Trader Support Service and all the ancillary services. We are probably in the region of £500 million now for costs. Do you agree that all that money would be better spent on enhancing trade within our internal market?

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

I very much thank the Member for her intervention. I take issue with her figure of about £500 million; it is a lot more than that. It is interesting that every time that I, our wonderful MP for South Antrim, Robin Swann, or even some of our Lords have asked those questions, we have not got any answers from the British Government. Lord Elliott asked a question on the Floor and got a written response that mentions a figure of about £160 million, but that is for only a very specific area, not for all the other areas that are involved.

We were also told very clearly that, within the consent process for looking at the Windsor framework, there would be break points and the ability for us as an Assembly — that means not just people on these Benches but everybody here — to hold the process to account. The first one was on applicability motions. When the first applicability motion came before the Assembly, we voted on it, and, because it did not pass with cross-community consent, it was deemed to have failed, except, of course, that the Secretary of State did not action it. The second one did not even arrive on time, because the applicability motion was already making its way through the various stages in the House of Commons and we could not even intervene. That should be a concern for every single person in the Chamber, because this issue should have been dealt with as it was part of the consent mechanism and system as well.

We have heard about the Stormont brake. We tried to apply the Stormont brake. We brought it through, followed the process, but that was ignored as well. I will say to the Secretary of State that he has probably put into action a lot of the things that were requested that would fix the problems with the Stormont brake. He has put some of those into action, but not all of them. If there is to be faith that we, as an Assembly, have any voice on these things, we must be able to make it heard clearly. My concern is that, every time that we seem to do anything in here, the Secretary of State — let us be honest, it is probably Erskine House or the NIO — gets to a point and then says, "Oh, we are faithfully implementing it, and we do not want to offend anybody". We have heard that time and time again.

Many of us who regularly visit Europe or go to Brussels have good friends in the Irish Government and with people across the whole process. We ask time and time again what "faithful implementation" means. A very interesting event happened not so long ago when a certain president on the other side of the Atlantic decided that there was going to be a differential in tax, particularly with taxes on goods going to the United States. There is a differential in that taxation regime, because Northern Ireland would be at the United Kingdom rate and the Republic of Ireland would be at the EU rate. Behind the scenes, many Irish officials were telling people that they were looking at the provisions of the Northern Ireland protocol so that they could call a temporary break in that process. There is a temporary break in that process because there would be — what is it, everybody? — a diversion in trade. There was going to be a significant diversion in trade. Those conversations are ongoing, and I understand that Simon Harris and his officials have been putting their feelers out to try to address that situation so that we can understand it. We are in a situation where the Republic of Ireland, rightly or wrongly, considers that there is going to be a major diversion in trade, and in Northern Ireland, there is a major diversion in trade. Rather than tearing up the entire Windsor framework completely, which will probably be difficult to do under international law, the key issue is that there should be break points in the Windsor framework that the Secretary of State should be adopting. We should be going to the point of saying, "Let us pause this to stop the diversion until such times as the SPS agreement gets across the line, and then we can look at it again". That is what people normally do during trade discussions. Those are the issues.

Jonathan Buckley (DUP, Upper Bann)

I thank the Member for giving way. He raises an interesting point. Surely we are now at the point where, although the UK Government are determined to have a reset of relationships, as they call it, with the EU, that is actually going beyond that point and is now undermining more businesses in Northern Ireland that have genuine issues with trade in the current situation.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

I thank the Member for that. It is not just Northern Ireland businesses that are having those issues; it is businesses in the whole of the United Kingdom. Indeed, if people were honest, we would find that it is an issue across the whole of these islands, because there are many complaints from Irish businesses that are trying to —.

Emma Sheerin (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I thank the Member for giving way, unlike the Member for East Belfast. Earlier, you mentioned problems that businesses have faced. The Economy Committee took a presentation from the FSB following the report that it produced, and we were told, as the report outlines, that just over 700 businesses contributed to it out of 140,000 businesses across the UK.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

The Member's time is up.

Emma Sheerin (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Is that proportionate?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

The Member's time is up.

Ciara Ferguson (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

It has to be said that, to me, the motion reads as little more than the TUV tail wagging the DUP dog, to be honest. Members, as you are all well aware, next June will mark a decade — 10 years — since the Brexit referendum in which the majority of people in the North voted to remain in the European Union. The majority of our citizens in the North were not beguiled by those who found themselves at the behest of Boris and the Brexiteers, yet, here we are again, listening to a DUP motion that refuses to acknowledge that the challenges about which they now complain are in fact the very outworkings of that failed project, which we were all well warned about. Economists, commentators, academics and organisations all warned of the many potential negative economic and social consequences of Brexit.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

Will the Member take an intervention?

Ciara Ferguson (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

No, thank you. Sorry, I want to move on.

Some even defined the Brexiteers' choice to advocate a project that would increase trade barriers and hinder free movement as supporting self-inflicted recession. Brexit is a child of the DUP. You were repeatedly warned that it would be bad for the North and our economy. If we cast our minds back to the publication of a report by the Department for the Economy in July 2019 that warned of a possible 40,000-plus job losses, we remember that one DUP politician said that they could live with that. Another stated:

"I wouldn't care what sort of situation I face as long as I'm out of Europe."

Those who so whimsically dismissed the qualitative advice from so many sectors have a brass neck when they continue to complain about the outworking of the wheels that they set in motion.

Our electorate voted overwhelmingly to remain. Our people know only too well the continued impact of Brexit on our economy, trade, small businesses, opportunities for students, our young people and even the stronger collective vigilance concerning human rights and standards in a post-Brexit era. Equally, however, our people know that unionism is no longer the monolith that it once was. Its electoral majority in the Assembly and at Westminster is gone. A majority in our local Assembly has instead voted to continue our post-Brexit trade arrangements and recognise the need to maintain the hard-fought and hard-won protections against Brexit's worst excesses.

Eóin Tennyson (Alliance, Upper Bann)

It is telling that the first motion that we are debating in the Chamber on our return from summer recess is not about the crisis that faces children with special educational needs, hospital waiting lists, the ecological crisis that faces Lough Neagh or the cost-of-living crisis bearing down on our constituents; rather, it is a crass attempt from the DUP to relitigate old arguments and rewrite history. I understand why the DUP wants to do that, for it is not a pretty history from its perspective. Having campaigned for, promoted and voted for Brexit, it is once again shedding crocodile tears at the inevitable consequences of Brexit.

Our departure from the EU has been a monumental act of self-harm. It increased division in our politics and chaos in the UK economy and deprived us of key opportunities. That may well not be the fantasy that previous Governments promised, but it is certainly the Brexit that those of us on these Benches voted against, because everyone knew that, whatever was written on the side of Boris Johnson's campaign bus, the DUP would inevitably end up under it.

Alliance warned that leaving the EU meant new borders and new barriers and that those were always going to be constructed at ports and airports, where they could be managed and mitigated, rather than along a 300-mile land border. That is just logic, something that the DUP never applied during the Brexit debate. Instead, it told us that we were scaremongering. It told those who warned of supply chain issues that they could, "Go to the chippy", and, shamefully, it said that it could live with up to 40,000 job losses in the event of a no-deal Brexit. To attempt now to pin the consequences of its Brexit squarely on the Windsor framework is akin to driving your car square into a brick wall and blaming the airbag for your bloody nose.

The Windsor framework is imperfect, as any solution short of full EU membership would be, but it is the bare minimum that is required to mitigate the impact of Brexit on our economy, create stability for business and protect the Good Friday Agreement. Let me say this clearly and unequivocally: Alliance recognises the challenges facing many of our smallest businesses. Unlike the proposer of the motion, we have set out solutions to ease that burden through simplification of the at-risk category, improvements to the Trader Support Service, streamlining of the customs duty reimbursement scheme, and awareness and training campaigns for GB-based suppliers.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

Will the Member give way?

Eóin Tennyson (Alliance, Upper Bann)

I will indeed.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

Thank you very much indeed, Eóin. At the moment, the question over that scheme is the fact that reimbursement takes so long. Will you join us in calling on HMRC to get its finger out and, rather than waiting nine months to pay people, do it within 14 days?

Eóin Tennyson (Alliance, Upper Bann)

I could not agree more. That causes cash flow issues for businesses, and it is a practical issue that could be addressed by government. Alliance is also clear, however, that, through returning to, at least, the customs union and, ideally, the single market, we can wipe away much of that Brexit-related bureaucracy.

Today's motion omits key facts from the Federation of Small Businesses report. Some 87% of the businesses that responded to the survey were based in England, Scotland and Wales, businesses that do not enjoy the protections available to businesses in Northern Ireland under the Windsor framework. When we look at export statistics, we see that business exports were up by 7% in Northern Ireland last year. In Scotland, they were down by 13%; in England, they were down 4·5%; and, in Wales, they were down by 9%. The Northern Ireland economy grew faster than the UK average. I make no apologies for championing the interests of Northern Ireland businesses above all others. Crucially, nowhere in its report does the FSB call for the suspension of the Windsor framework, as both the motion and the amendment clearly do. On the contrary, the report explicitly calls on the Executive to "promote dual market access" and:

"position Northern Ireland as a gateway for trade".

I wholeheartedly support that call.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

Will the Member give way?

Eóin Tennyson (Alliance, Upper Bann)

I will not give way again. Thank you, Steve.

It is long past time that we moved beyond rehearsing the same old tired, circular arguments and talking Northern Ireland down. We have an opportunity to focus on practical and pragmatic solutions aimed at building on the protections of the Windsor framework and creating a more stable, prosperous and vibrant economy and future for everyone who calls this place "home". On that basis, we will not indulge or support the motion or the amendment.

Matthew O'Toole (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

Here we are again. We return after a summer break with, as Mr Tennyson said, public services in crisis, Lough Neagh dying in front of us, race and sectarian hate crime on the rise and a list of other things to debate, and, sure as day follows night, we have a motion on the Windsor framework in which the DUP seeks to negate the consequences of, as many Members have said, the hard Brexit that the DUP itself championed, delivered and insisted on.

Jonathan Buckley (DUP, Upper Bann)

Will the Member give way?

Matthew O'Toole (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

I will be happy to give way in a moment; I just want to outline some of my points. It will come as no surprise to anybody in the Chamber that the SDLP will oppose the motion and the amendment.

I will say this: the Murphy review offers practical ideas for smoothing processes in moving goods from Britain into Northern Ireland and improving democratic scrutiny in the Chamber. It is a reasonable bit of work. I do not agree with everything in it. Of course, I did not agree with Brexit: Northern Ireland should be back in the EU. I reiterate the point that I have made multiple times in the Chamber: the only way that that will happen — the only way of taking control of that process — is by voting for a new Ireland back in Europe.

I recognise, however, that some sensible things are recommended in the report: better resource for Assembly Committees; some action on repayments under the duty reimbursement scheme; and a number of other things. We engaged with Lord Murphy and mentioned our proposals for an EU Commission office in Belfast, as well as observer status for Northern Ireland representatives, be they MLAs or, indeed, directly elected MEPs.

I give way briefly to Mr Buckley.

Jonathan Buckley (DUP, Upper Bann)

I thank the Member for giving way. Will he accept that an issue, support for which has deeply divided Northern Ireland and continues to affect Northern Ireland businesses of all sorts, is worthy of debate in the Assembly?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

The Member has an extra minute.

Matthew O'Toole (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

I did not say that it was not worthy of debate. I will tell you this, Mr Buckley: I am happy to debate this any day of the week. I and my side will win the debate, because we have won the debate repeatedly.

I say this in the nicest possible way: I am in politics here because of Brexit. I have talked about that many times. Ms Ferguson mentioned that, next year, it will be a decade since Brexit. I was then a civil servant, working in the middle of it. I was literally in Downing Street when it happened. I left that life and career because I could not stay in it. I thought that Brexit was dreadful for Ireland, for Northern Ireland and for the whole system, and so it has turned out to be, worst of all for unionism.

I think that we are moving towards a new Ireland, back in Europe. The mad decision that was made by English/British voters in June 2016 is what has driven that. Brexit was not something that I wanted, but it will expedite something that I do want, which is a new Ireland. Today, unionism is once again having a debate in the Assembly not about healthcare, waiting lists or Lough Neagh but about a debate that it cannot win. The Windsor framework is something that you created and have made worse every time.

I will be honest: as someone who worked in London and understands how that machine works, I know that no one over there cares about the Windsor framework at the moment. I am really sorry to have to say that, but let me be blunt: it is not on the agenda in London or in Brussels. The Murphy review makes some sensible, practical suggestions.

I will give way very briefly.

Diane Dodds (DUP, Upper Bann)

Thank you very much: you are always generous in giving way.

I recognise that, when the Member was in Downing Street, as he often tells us, he was fulfilling the Tory party's wishes at that time. That may not have been his personal wish, but it is what he was doing. It is interesting, however, to hear nationalism in the Chamber today confirm that only majority rule is what it wants. Is that really what you see for the future?

Matthew O'Toole (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

I will say this: I was delighted to hear the Member have a little pop at the work of civil servants. In front of her is the deputy First Minister, who has SDLP, Sinn Féin and Alliance Party civil servants working for her. What the Member just said is, frankly, a slur on all civil servants, but that is fine. I have made clear my view on all of that.

I will go back to the point that the Member made about majority rule. Mr Brooks mentioned the idea of a constitutional norm, but that is an absurd and wrong argument. By definition, the constitution of this place does not require double majorities for everything. We are in the UK, but I do not consent to that. That is not the way in which this place works, so it is an absurd argument. Mr Brooks also acknowledged that Parliament is sovereign. The UK Parliament — I want a new Ireland — voted for these arrangements. I am sorry for Ulster unionism that it has got itself into the position in which the UK Parliament voted for arrangements that unionism detests so much. Perhaps unionism should reflect on the original Brexit decision and on its tactics now of tabling these absurd and futile motions for debate.

I care about the needs of business. I want smooth processes for businesses, whether they import or export. As Mr Tennyson rightly said, exporting businesses in Northern Ireland are increasing their exports. We are performing better economically than the rest of the UK. Yes, I want smooth processes east-west, but you are constantly tabling motions for debates like this about things that will not happen. The UK, which is struggling with growth and says that it does not have enough money to fill its fiscal black hole, will not jeopardise its just-repaired relationship with the EU, in the context, by the way, of a war on the continent of Europe. It is not going to upturn its entire —.

Jonathan Buckley (DUP, Upper Bann)

[Inaudible.]

Matthew O'Toole (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

Hang on one second. I let you in.

It is not going to upturn its entire relationship with the EU because a few unionist MLAs are ranting about it at Stormont. That is not going to happen. Here is the thing: grow up and accept the consequences of the Brexit that you championed. If you actually want this place to work, get down to real work rather than bringing this nonsense to the Assembly.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

Question Time begins at 2.00 pm, so I will not take any further speeches until after the question for urgent oral answer. The next Member to speak in the debate will be Mr Kearney.

Before I call the deputy First Minister — if Mr Buckley would get out of the way, thank you — I welcome Mr Jon Burrows as a new MLA for North Antrim. He was signed in in early August, and this is our first opportunity to give him a welcome. I trust that you will have a good time in the Chamber and that you are able to serve the people of that area well.

Oral Answers to Questions — The Executive Office

Michelle Guy (Alliance, Lagan Valley)

1. Mrs Guy asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister for an update on their input in delivering the online safety strategy for Northern Ireland 2020-25, given the strategy’s cross-cutting nature and their Department's role in ending violence against women and girls. (AQO 2284/22-27)

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Before I begin, with your indulgence, Mr Speaker, I would like to take a moment to reflect on the tragic deaths of Vanessa Whyte and her two children, James and Sara Rutledge. Those were absolutely horrific murders, and I have no doubt that everyone across the House shares in the horror of what happened. It emphasises, once again, the absolute need for us all to work together to end violence against women and girls. I pay tribute to the dignity and courage of their friends and family, and I think, in particular, of the school friends and other schoolmates of both of those children as they start back to school this week, with the grief that, undoubtedly, they will feel.

We want to ensure that all women are safe and feel safe everywhere. That is why the strategic framework to end violence against women and girls addresses the whole range of gender-based violence, abuse and harm, including online. The framework is intended not to displace existing policy remits but to strengthen and coordinate the Executive response to challenging violence against women and girls.

The ending violence against women and girls change fund is a fundamental part of delivering the strategic framework, and it focuses on prevention. There are many excellent projects, including in our constituency of Lagan Valley, which work with expert organisations and the PSNI to educate on safety in online spaces. The Department of Health has sponsorship of the Executive's online safety strategy and accompanying three-year action plan, which was published in February 2021. Our officials are members of the online safety strategy cross-departmental implementation group and work closely with colleagues to ensure that we use every opportunity to protect women and girls and to ensure their safety. The UK Online Safety Act is also an important tool in combating online abuse and harms, and we remain committed to engaging with Ofcom on its implementation.

Michelle Guy (Alliance, Lagan Valley)

I thank the deputy First Minister for her response, and I echo her comments about those awful tragedies.

Does the deputy First Minister regard online safety for our children and young people as a priority? If so, is the online safety strategy and action plan that we have at the moment good enough?

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for her question. It is incredibly important that all the actions arising from that are fit for purpose. I have said to the House previously that I have had somebody charged and convicted under the online safety legislation. He pleaded guilty and is currently in custody. That is a demonstration, unfortunately, not only of the Act in action but of the need for the Act. I would like to get into a position where we do not need to use that piece of legislation, and that applies right throughout.

I take the opportunity to extend support to Simon Harris, who has been subjected to a number of threats over the summer, including another one in the past number of days. It is absolutely appalling, and it demonstrates that abuse targets not just women and girls — the focus of this particular piece of work — but, very often, those in public life across all political parties.

Of course, in this work, it is critical that we genuinely get the right actions to tackle that, should it be towards those in public life, women and girls — no matter where they are — or, in particular, children.

Aoife Finnegan (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I acknowledge the leadership that the First Minister and deputy First Minister have shown in highlighting ending the scourge of violence against women and girls. Making progress will require a whole-of-government and whole-of-society approach. Can the deputy First Minister provide an update on how TEO is working collaboratively with Departments to tackle sexual violence against women and girls?

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for her question. It is one of the six key outcomes: working better together. That means all parts of our system working together to try to tackle it.

Just last week, we had the privilege and honour of attending an ending violence against women and girls conference at Craigavon Integrated College. There, we joined over 100 pupils from a number of schools and, in particular, the McNally family, who have done such incredibly brave work in the area. It must be so hard for them to talk about Natalie, describe who she was and step up time and time again, but they do that because they genuinely do not want the violence that happened to their Natalie to happen to another woman. I pay tribute to them. It was an absolute honour to be at that event with them. The event also demonstrated that it is not just about working across government and with local government but about working with young people and all parts of our society at the earliest possible opportunity to tackle misogynistic attitudes and the issues that, in turn, give rise to violence against women and girls.

Diane Dodds (DUP, Upper Bann)

I thank the deputy First Minister for her reference to the conference that we attended on Friday. One of the issues that is really important to families who have experienced that type of terrible violence is the justice system and, in particular, the length of time that it takes for cases to come before the courts. That causes those families such anxiety. Will the Minister work in the Executive to ensure a much swifter response for those families?

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for her important question. She is absolutely right: justice in Northern Ireland is much too slow. It really affects people, not just those who are waiting to appear before the courts but the victims' families, who have to suffer for many months if not years while they wait for their cases to come up in court. That is an unbearable anxiety for those families. Families need to see justice being done and they need to see it being done much more swiftly. I had the opportunity to return to the Bar a number of years ago, and I was genuinely shocked by the length of time that criminal cases were taking. I was involved in a number of cases, none of which got to trial over the couple of years that I was at the Bar. It is an urgent issue, and we need to tackle it. Justice must be swifter. I believe that we are the slowest across these isles. That is not acceptable. It is not acceptable for victims or their families, and we need to get on and tackle the issue and produce swift justice now.

David Brooks (DUP, Belfast East)

2. Mr Brooks asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister to outline the opportunities available for Northern Ireland from the upcoming state visit by President Trump. (AQO 2285/22-27)

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for his question. President Trump's unprecedented second state visit to the UK is an opportunity to showcase Northern Ireland's strengths, build relationships with the president and his team and boost trade and investment. Using the visit to build personal ties is particularly important given the UK-US economic prosperity deal and ongoing uncertainty on tariffs.

I will have the opportunity to participate in the state banquet at Windsor Castle on Wednesday 17 September, which is being hosted by His Majesty The King in honour of the president of the United States of America and the First Lady. As with all engagements, I will use the event to promote Northern Ireland as a great place to visit and in which to live, work and invest, and to remind the president about our unique connection to the 250th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence. As always, I will use the opportunity to showcase the fantastic place that I am proud to call home. When I met the president in Washington in March, we spoke about golf and, of course, about Northern Ireland, and I will be keen to highlight how successful this year's 153rd Open has been.

It is vital to many businesses and communities across Northern Ireland that we not only reaffirm our unique position with respect to the president but cultivate a constructive relationship with the Administration that supports our exporters as well as encouraging investment. Through the Northern Ireland Bureau, we are developing those relationships with key stakeholders, many of whom are new in DC. It is not just about Northern Ireland benefiting from US investment but about how our companies can invest in and benefit the US as well.

David Brooks (DUP, Belfast East)

I thank the Minister for her answer and her work in that area. There has scarcely been a more important time to engage with the president of the United States.

The deputy First Minister had to step up on St Patrick's Day this year when the First Minister decided not to show leadership. What are the plans in that regard this time? Will the First Minister attend?

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for his question. At this stage, the First Minister will not attend the state banquet with President Trump.

I engage with people, politicians and leaders from all the different shades of political opinion. As far as I am concerned, it is not about what I feel about them or even about my view of their political opinion but about my being in this role and stepping up, showing leadership and engaging with people where there is particular interest and importance for Northern Ireland. I believe that that is what leadership is all about, and I certainly will not be found wanting when it comes to stepping forward, should that be to represent Northern Ireland at the D-Day commemorations, to talk to Prime Ministers, to go to London to lobby for what is best for this place and raise our issues at every opportunity or, yes, to go to DC to talk to President Trump and to attend those events.

When we met His Majesty The King, he was very clear about the fact that he wants the devolved regions and nations to participate in the likes of state banquets. That had not happened before during such state visits. They are unique and fantastic opportunities to engage with not just the president but the entire team that he brings with him. Many people will come to the UK as part of the delegation, and they are covering everything from trade to social links and departmental matters, which are things that go right through the Administration. There is a good opportunity to talk to a number of key people at such events, so I am looking forward to it. I will always stand up and speak up for Northern Ireland.

Matthew O'Toole (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

Given the conversation that we have just had on violence against women, it is important to put on record the fact that Donald Trump was found liable by a jury in a New York court of sexually assaulting a woman and that there have been numerous other allegations against him. May I ask that, in your and your office's engagement with President Trump, while acknowledging his office and the importance of the United States to this place, we do not operate a values-free policy, whether that is in relation to violence against women, the ongoing genocide in Gaza or the use of the authorities in the United States to intimidate people? It cannot be a values-free engagement, so may I ask the deputy First Minister to ensure that it will not be?

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I will engage with the president of the United States because of the role that he holds, which is president of the United States. The US is incredibly important to Northern Ireland. I could outline many issues on which I disagreed fundamentally with previous presidents whom I have had the privilege of meeting, not least President Biden, but I went on and did what I did because of and for the people of Northern Ireland.

I will outline very quickly for the Member some of the key reasons why US investment is important. US investment in Northern Ireland has been £1·5 billion over the past decade; 32,000 employees in Northern Ireland are employed by US companies; 28% of all Northern Ireland employment by international companies is by US companies; there are over 50 Northern Ireland companies in the US; and the US is Northern Ireland's second-largest single export market. As I said, I will step up and speak up for Northern Ireland while others shy away from doing so, because, regardless of people's personal views or feelings, it is important to Northern Ireland and the UK, and I will be there to speak up for Northern Ireland and for Northern Ireland businesses.

Philip McGuigan (Sinn Féin, North Antrim)

In her initial response, the deputy First Minister touched on the success of the Open. It was great to see that the promotion of the north Antrim coast flowed from the Open during the summer. Will the deputy First Minister give an indication of the projected economic impact of hosting the Open and say whether there are any plans to host it again in the near future?

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Absolutely. What an incredible success. The only thing that did not go to plan was that there was not a Rory win. We had a Rory McIlroy win just this weekend, however, and I extend my sincere congratulations to him for that. It did not come through for the Open, but we have a win now.

The Open was a huge success. It showcased our beautiful north coast. When I was speaking to people from all over the globe at the Open, they told me that they were blown away by how beautiful the scenery is and how fantastically organised the tournament was. Two hundred and eighty thousand spectators attended, with an estimated £213 million of benefit going to Northern Ireland. Anybody who tried to book a hotel anywhere up near that area for that week will know about that huge benefit. It was also really positive to see how many of the restaurants and local shops were full.

We learned from the previous time, when there was some feedback that the conditions for people who were attending the Open did not facilitate the same benefit to the local economy. That was addressed and addressed very successfully this time. It was a hugely successful Open, and it would be great to have the British Open back in Northern Ireland.

Paula Bradshaw (Alliance, Belfast South)

I fully agree that dialogue and engagement are really important, but I continue to be concerned that we have not yet seen an international relations strategy that would underpin all types of engagement on a world stage. I would appreciate an update on that.

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

The Member will know from her role in the Committee that international engagement policy is a non-devolved area, but there is much that we can do, and we do it across a number of areas, particularly through soft diplomacy, which is about reaching out through our offices in Brussels and in DC. Of course, those offices go well beyond those physical locations, as the Member will be well aware, but it is also particularly about working with Invest NI and Tourism NI to make sure that those two elements are fully integrated into the key messages.

I encourage Ministers to go out and tell our story. We must champion Northern Ireland at every turn because, if we are not doing that, who will? We are in our roles to be champions for Northern Ireland. We have a strong story to tell. Yes, of course, we have challenges, and, as we commence the new term, we must drive forward on delivery, but we have lots of good news to tell, and we ought to do that and champion that at every opportunity.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

3. Ms Ní Chuilín asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister for an update on the Inquiry (Mother and Baby Institutions, Magdalene Laundries and Workhouses) and Redress Scheme Bill [NIA Bill 15/22-27]. (AQO 2286/22-27)

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Mr Speaker, with your permission, junior Minister Cameron will answer the question.

Pam Cameron (DUP, South Antrim)

We are pleased that the Inquiry (Mother and Baby Institutions, Magdalene Laundries and Workhouses) and Redress Scheme Bill passed its Second Stage before the summer recess. Ministers welcomed the opportunity to meet the Committee Chair and Deputy Chair to discuss the Bill before it entered the Committee Stage. We thank the Committee for its work over the summer months.

The Department has engaged with victims and survivors and Committee officials in preparation for the Committee’s further evidence sessions, which are scheduled to begin this week. We acknowledge that it is highly sensitive and complex legislation, and it is important that people have the opportunity to provide further views through the Committee process. We are committed to working closely with others to deliver this important legislation, and there is an opportunity to shape it further as it progresses through the legislative process. This work remains a key priority for Ministers.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I thank the junior Minister for her response. I am sure that she will appreciate that many victims and survivors have expressed deep concerns about the posthumous date for redress, and, indeed, there are other concerns about the Bill. Will the junior Minister commit to listening to those concerns, and will she continue to engage with the victims and survivors of the mother-and-baby institutions, Magdalene laundries and workhouses?

Pam Cameron (DUP, South Antrim)

I thank the Member for that important question. Yes, of course, we acknowledge that some victims and survivors were disappointed by the proposed 2011 posthumous date in the Bill. We are actively listening to their concerns, and we also welcome the Committee's views. There is no precedent for posthumous claims for an admission-based scheme going back to 1922, and it presents a number of risks. We need to make sure that we have a deliverable scheme that supports as many people as possible. There are important factors to consider, not least the need to strike a balance between the desire to make reparations for the past and the pressures felt by public services today that we are all acutely aware of, such as issues around health and education. As for affordability, in a perfect world, we would have unlimited resource, but we do not have that. We do not live in a perfect world, but we will, of course, listen and engage. We will watch as the legislation makes its way through the process, and the aim is to strike a balance that is fair for everyone.

Stewart Dickson (Alliance, East Antrim)

I thank the junior Minister for the way the Bill is progressing. Has she or her civil servants had an opportunity to reflect on the recent television documentary that set out the situation in England regarding mother-and-baby homes? The lack of an apology from the United Kingdom Government means that we are at least a step ahead. Specifically, what liaison will her Department have with the authorities at Westminster to ensure that we get a both-islands approach to mother-and-baby homes?

Pam Cameron (DUP, South Antrim)

I thank the Member for that important question. The public inquiry will tease out some of those issues, but, if the Member wishes to write to the office, we will ensure that he receives a full response.

Sinéad McLaughlin (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

I reiterate the point about the arbitrary nature of the date for posthumous claims. Victims and survivors need to be listened to with respect and dignity, and it is totally disrespectful to victims and survivors that that date still stands.

Pam Cameron (DUP, South Antrim)

I thank the Member for her important point. I reiterate that we absolutely acknowledge the disappointment that has been expressed. There are others who are not so disappointed, but we understand that there is a range of views. We have to make sure that whatever we do is fit for purpose and meets the needs of the legislation. We will continue to listen in order to ensure fairness for victims and survivors.

Harry Harvey (DUP, Strangford)

4. Mr Harvey asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister to outline any representations made to the UK Government in relation to removing all barriers to trade and ensuring unfettered access within the UK internal market. (AQO 2287/22-27)

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

As part of our ongoing commitment to ensuring that our circumstances are understood and appropriately reflected in policy and strategic decision-making within the UK internal market, we continue to engage with the UK Government across a range of forums. Those representations have been made at meetings of the Prime Minister and heads of devolved Governments, the Interministerial Standing Committee and the East-West Council, at which members of Intertrade UK were also present, and in many other engagements. Representations have also been made in the context of discussions on the Windsor framework and the UK-EU strategic partnership in the Interministerial Group on UK-EU Relations. Those engagements reflect our continued commitment to collaborative working with the UK Government but also to raising those important issues. We will continue to participate proactively in all forums and to advocate for Northern Ireland's interests at every opportunity.

Harry Harvey (DUP, Strangford)

Thank you, deputy First Minister. Do you agree that the Murphy review was a missed opportunity?

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for his supplementary question. It was absolutely a missed opportunity, which was deeply disappointing but, alas, perhaps not surprising. Our businesses face huge issues. I caught the end of the previous debate as I came into the Chamber for Question Time, and I was dismayed to hear those issues dismissed in such terms once again. In the final line spoken before I stood up, the leader of the Opposition, I believe, described it as a "nonsense" debate. It is an incredibly important debate. The people who decry so-called Trump tariffs and barriers to trade seem absolutely happy to accept all of the unnecessary bureaucracy, paperwork and process that amounts to non-tariff barriers not just between the UK and the EU but within the UK internal market. It is an absolute disgrace, and it needs to be addressed. The UK Government need to start taking it seriously. It is a huge cost to business, which is drowning in the paperwork. The UK Government promised the people of Northern Ireland unfettered UK trade: they must deliver.

Ciara Ferguson (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

The recently published 'Independent Review of the Windsor Framework' notes that one of the most obvious benefits that can be attributed to the Windsor framework is dual market access. Does the deputy First Minister agree that we need to see the implementation that both the British Government and the Executive continue to emphasise, as well as the publicising of the commercial benefits of dual market access?

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

At this stage, there is no evidence of any benefit from dual market access, and we continue to tackle the huge bureaucracy that it has brought to internal UK trade. There are, of course, different views on the issue in the Executive Office. I have asked for evidence of any benefit of dual market access: I have received no evidence that there has been any benefit whatever. Instead, we have got bureaucracy, paperwork and process, all of which is completely unnecessary. The UK Government need to step up, address that and start to work for business not just on this issue but for the UK economy as a whole.

Timothy Gaston (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

On 28 May, an official told the Executive Office Committee that regulatory divergence from GB was no longer an issue. Deputy First Minister, given the motion that your party colleagues have brought to the Chamber today, do you hold the same view as your official? What does it say about the Executive Office's desire to address the issues that that remark was made in the first place?

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

As indicated, there will be a range of views on the issue, but I appeal to people to look at the facts, to listen to companies, to listen to what people are facing and to look at what the UK Government promised and at what promises they are not fulfilling. There are real challenges for businesses. It is correct to say at this stage that there is very little regulatory divergence, but we are still unnecessarily checking things at the behest of the Windsor framework, despite the promises that there was to be unfettered internal UK trade. Doing that is not proportionate. It is not based on risk, is completely unnecessary and is pushing the cost on to businesses. If, indeed, the UK-EU deal comes through, and there are, for example, sanitary and phytosanitary (SPS) agreements that remove any so-called advantages of dual market access, that would, in a practical way, smooth things further. It would not, however, remove the challenges that remain with customs paperwork or other processes that we were promised would be got rid of but have not been and are still in existence. The Government need to remove them now. They serve no purpose and are completely unnecessary. Get rid of them.

John Stewart (UUP, East Antrim)

Despite the commitments from the British Government to raise awareness and provide training for companies in GB supplying Northern Ireland, many companies are now telling businesses here that they are simply not willing to supply Northern Ireland, because, in their opinion, it is just too much hassle. That is having a huge impact on the supply chain, and we are seeing rising costs on the back of it. Surely that is unacceptable, and the British Government clearly need to be doing more on the issue.

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

The Member is absolutely right. Some companies do not supply Northern Ireland because they do not understand the system. Some companies try to ask for various company numbers or are looking for processes that are not needed. I get it all the time from people who contact me. It takes a bit of time, but they can navigate the system and get the situation resolved. There are still requirements, however. Certificates are required by certain people. I was contacted by Roy from mid-Ulster. He was trying to bring tractors into Northern Ireland. He required four certificates, and he could not give the haulage company a specific date on which he would get them. He therefore missed the window, and those tractors were stuck in Scotland for four to six weeks, despite their being paid for in full and the fact that Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom. That is not acceptable, and it is one of many different examples of, quite frankly, as I describe it, "the blob gone crazy". It is bureaucracy for bureaucracy's sake. We need to tackle that. The biggest frustration that the people have about Governments — whether here, across the United Kingdom or across the globe — is the fact that it is so difficult to get things sorted because of the unnecessary, disproportionate and non-risk-based nonsense that people are putting in place. They need to get rid of the bureaucracy. It does not serve any purpose. Get it sorted.

Connie Egan (Alliance, North Down)

5. Ms Egan asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister for an update on a permanent memorial in Parliament Buildings to victims and survivors, as recommended by the historical institutional abuse inquiry report. (AQO 2288/22-27)

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

We know how important the memorial plaque is, which is why officials have engaged extensively with victims and survivors in recent months to ensure that they heard a wide range of opinions on the wording.

Draft options were shared with representative groups and individuals not affiliated with any group, as well as with the Commissioner for Survivors of Institutional Childhood Abuse (COSICA) and the Victims and Survivors Service (VSS). A final draft has now been developed, reflecting the views shared during that engagement, and is now under consideration. We remain committed to progressing that important inquiry recommendation and are keen to move forward as quickly as possible.

Connie Egan (Alliance, North Down)

I thank the deputy First Minister for her answer. That is welcome progress. Can she provide reassurance that the most recent draft has the full backing of groups of victims and survivors?

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

The Member will be aware that the final draft is under consideration at the moment. Officials have undertaken quite a significant task to make sure that there is maximum buy-in and that views have been taken on the specific wording. Although the wording will not reflect exactly what everybody wants, because that is simply not possible, we have followed that process in order to try to get maximum possible buy-in. Hopefully, we will be moving on that very shortly.

I take the opportunity to thank you, Mr Speaker, for your help and support. I know that you have been personally involved in working with many of the victims and survivors over a long period. Thank you for your cooperation with the Department and with us to try to get the issue resolved.

Linda Dillon (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

On the back of the question that Connie Egan just asked, can the deputy First Minister give a guarantee that the wording on the plaque will be reflective of the experiences and input of victims and survivors, and can she give us some sense of exactly what that engagement looked like?

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for her question. As indicated, that engagement was very much about communicating with groups but also with individuals and others outside those groups who are known to us, along with extensive engagement with the commissioner and officials who were working to develop that.

I am optimistic that the wording of that will reflect consensus across victims and survivors. Our aim was to try to get resolution to what has been an outstanding commitment to victims and survivors for too long. We are all on the same page with really wanting it to be resolved as soon as possible to make sure that victims and survivors can see what was promised to them reflected in this place but also so that we can then move on to look at the other outstanding commitments from that overall inquiry.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

We will move on to topical questions.

Matthew O'Toole (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

T1. Mr O'Toole asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister, given the Executive's failure to deliver — it is not just the Opposition saying that; independent think tanks such as Pivotal are scathing about delivery — including in the area of special educational needs — one of the areas in which delivery is woeful — and the fact that outside, today, kids and their families are protesting for basic services, while the Education Minister is not delivering that but is issuing a page of peremptory guidance that will make other vulnerable kids feel anxious and nervous, whether that is another example of the deputy First Minister's party and the Executive failing to deliver and, rather, engaging in bullying and deflection? (AQT 1501/22-27)

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for his question. The Executive are focused on delivery regardless of the challenges. There are challenges around the funding that is available and challenges in our system to make sure that it can deliver for people and that it is fit for purpose.

We have delivered, not least in getting the Programme for Government out and around £80 million of funding out through an early learning and childcare subsidy package and a £25 million package for early learning and childcare. We have published the framework to end violence against women and girls, including the delivery plan, and there is money on the ground for people. As mentioned, just this week, we had the release of some 50,000 additional inpatient, outpatient and diagnostic appointments to tackle the priority of the health waiting lists. So, there has been delivery. Perhaps we need to communicate it in a stronger way to make sure that people are aware of what has been delivered.

I am pleased that the Education Minister has published the SEN plan. There are over 3,000 additional SEN places, and I am pleased that, finally, today, no child is without a place. However, the key focus must move on to ensuring that those places are suitable and that parents can get confirmation of those places at an earlier stage. That has taken a huge amount of work because of the number of additional places that are required, but it is a demonstration of the Executive in action. It was a big challenge. It was tackled, and those places were created. It was not easy to do, and more needs to be done. The system needs to be improved, and I know that the Education Minister is up for that challenge.

Matthew O'Toole (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

Saying that "more needs to be done" is a remarkable understatement. The deputy First Minister did not specifically address the point about the cheap headlines that her party and the Education Minister are chasing today around vulnerable kids and guidance in schools.

I want to ask one other specific question that relates to delivery. We set six tests for you, and one is very specific: will work have begun on a rebuild of Casement Park by the end of the mandate?

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

The Member has spoken a number of times on a number of issues already today, from the Windsor framework right through to the important issue about safe spaces for biological females. It is important not to dismiss those issues and to say that they are nonsense. That is absolutely wrong. If this place is going to work, you need to recognise that, while it may not be an important issue to you, it is an important issue to many other people.

I have outlined that, across a wide range of issues, the Executive are delivering not just the Programme for Government but a transformation board and transformation projects, looking at those budgets and looking into a three-year Budget coming down the line. We will do whatever we can to maximise the impact of what is a limited financial situation.

That has included actions such as getting real money into parents' pockets from the childcare subsidy, creating those 3,000-plus additional SEN places, and ensuring that the ending violence against women and girls strategy has been published and that there is funding out on the ground. Many things are happening that are improving people's lives. That includes the big issues, such as tackling health waiting lists.

The Member constantly goes back to the issue of Casement Park, while dismissing and demeaning everybody else for the particular issues that they question, but the reality is that, on health, education and trying to grow the economy and champion Northern Ireland, it is the DUP Ministers who have stepped up to do that time and time again.

This is an Executive that, across all parties, will be pushing as hard as possible to deliver for the people of Northern Ireland against our Programme for Government priorities.

Diane Dodds (DUP, Upper Bann)

T2. Mrs Dodds asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister, after stating that, this summer, we have endured the spectacle of the First Minister for all doubling down on her attendance at IRA memorials, her colleague, rather ironically, urging Sinn Féin to embrace the IRA more fully and the Secretary of State running to Dublin and telling us that he has almost reached agreement on legacy with the Dublin Government, whether it is time to seek the views of the innocent victims of terrorism on what an agreement on legacy should look like and for local politicians to condemn IRA terrorism. (AQT 1502/22-27)

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for her important question. It is worth reiterating, time and time again, that terrorism was always wrong, that violence was always wrong, that there was never any justification for it and that there was always an alternative. I sit down and talk to victims' families, many of whom are still grieving and feeling the loss. They see the loss of their loved ones being mocked and laughed about and those who carried out those attacks being glorified. That is wrong. I disagree with the glorification of terrorism, should that be about the IRA, IRA prisoners, the UVF or the UDA. There is no space for that, it needs to go away and it is absolutely wrong. The police need to take a robust line on tackling the glorification of terrorism.

At the heart of everything that we do, we should always remember the victims, who are still mourning, no matter what side of the community they come from. Their loss is acute, and we must do more to talk about and treat these issues in a sensitive way and, of course, step up, listen and deliver for the victims and survivors of the Troubles.

Diane Dodds (DUP, Upper Bann)

Deputy First Minister, many of us are really angry at the Secretary of State for running to Dublin for an agreement on legacy but not addressing the fact that Dublin has never admitted its role in IRA terrorism. It has not cooperated with the Omagh inquiry, and there has been no justice from the Dublin Government for, for example, the families of Ian Sproule and Lord Justice Gibson or the Hanna family. Will you assure us that you will do everything that you can to make sure that the issue of legacy addresses the core principle of justice?

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Absolutely, the Member is correct. The approach to legacy must always have justice at its heart. Of course, the process has, at best, been opaque. The Secretary of State will deign to tell us what he has decided to do after his extensive consultations with the Irish Government. That is an appalling way to approach the issue. Victims should have been at the heart of the redesign of the process, and I do not get any sense that that has happened. The Secretary of State has asked for views and taken them in, and we are to wait to see what he will say in his judgements.

I notice that there has been a significant reshuffle of the UK Government. Frankly, the Labour Government have, thus far, been shambolic. It is time for them to get their act together. While I may not be optimistic, I am hopeful that a reshuffle is an opportunity for them to do so. The UK Government need to get a grip, be that on legacy or many other issues. They need to get a grip on our economy, on immigration and on tackling the internal barriers to the UK internal market, and they need to get a grip on legacy and start talking to the people who are most impacted on by it.

Philip McGuigan (Sinn Féin, North Antrim)

T3. Mr McGuigan asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister whether they believe that the sickening displays of racist and sectarian hatred that we witnessed over the summer months on bonfires in Moygashel, Derry and elsewhere are legitimate expressions of culture or whether they will join him in unequivocally condemning those displays of hate and calling for those responsible for them to be held to account. (AQT 1503/22-27)

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for his question. Sadly, throughout the year, we have seen demonstrations that have aspects that are hateful, unkind, unpalatable and entirely unacceptable. That happens throughout Northern Ireland in many different areas. First of all, we should recognise that it involves a minority of people. When we look at what happened over this summer and last summer, we see that a minority of people carry out those attacks. I believe that the vast majority of people are opposed to hatred and to any threat of violence or intimidation.

The Member will be aware of the fact that we are looking at a review of Together: Building a United Community (T:BUC), which is our good relations strategy. We have agreed to roll the flags, identity, culture and tradition (FICT) recommendations into that process as we move towards T:BUC 2, in order to take some of those challenges into account. It is important to say that there is absolutely no role for any paramilitary symbols, flags, activity, glorification or whatever it may be, and it is hugely hurtful to victims on all sides when those things are seen. In all our displays of cultural identity, we should be respectful. That does not always happen, and we have seen the worst of that from a minority at times this summer.

Philip McGuigan (Sinn Féin, North Antrim)

The deputy First Minister mentioned T:BUC and Executive strategies. However, in light of those incidents, as well as the serious health and environmental concerns and risks that bonfires pose, does she agree that the current unregulated approach is not working and that political action is needed to end the cycle of having illegal, dangerous and hate-filled bonfires?

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

It is important to point out that, across Northern Ireland every year, there are hundreds and hundreds of bonfires, the vast majority of which are displayed in an absolutely peaceful way as part of community celebration. Northern Ireland is not unique in that; the culture of bonfire building as a form of commemoration and celebration is common in many places outside Northern Ireland. However, there are a minority of cultural events and expressions not just with bonfires but across many types of occasions that cause offence, and those are key issues for us to tackle when moving forward with that review. They are not easy issues to tackle, but, again, I reassure everybody by saying that they should always remember that a minority is involved that we need to take on but that the vast majority of bonfires are cultural celebrations and commemorations that are displayed appropriately.

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

T4. Miss McIlveen asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister for their assessment of the Equality Commission's responses to the UK Supreme Court's decision in the case of For Women Scotland Ltd v The Scottish Ministers. (AQT 1504/22-27)

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for her important and very relevant question. At the heart of all this must be a fundamental principle, which is that there should be safe spaces for biological females. That was at the heart of the court case. The court ruled that gender is based on biological sex. I was very disappointed in the Equality Commission's advice, but, alas, I was not surprised. A huge overreach is represented in its opinion on a possible interpretation of article 2. The commission should have stepped forward and stood up for women and to protect safe spaces for women. I welcome the fact that the Minister of Education did that today. Other Departments must look at the matter and make sure that we are continuing to do everything that we can to protect those who may feel vulnerable in some spaces.

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

I thank the deputy First Minister for her answer. Does she unequivocally agree that the response continues to leave women feeling vulnerable in places where they should feel safe, such as in single-sex changing rooms and toilets, and that any ongoing uncertainty that is caused by that delay from the Equality Commission is deeply frustrating, given the recognition of the common-sense reality that that judgement provided?

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member again for her supplementary question. This is a matter of common sense. Women need safe spaces, women deserve safe spaces, and many women are demanding safe spaces because that is what the law is there for and is designed to do.

The Equality Commission had an opportunity to clarify and to give that certainty. It has not done so, and we could end up being the only part of the United Kingdom without that clarity and certainty. It is making an argument about there being no diminution of rights, but what about the diminution of my rights as a woman and the rights of women across Northern Ireland? We did not consent to have those damaged, dismissed or demeaned in the way that they have been thus far. It is time for common sense and for the Equality Commission to give clear advice and to make sure that it is providing, in legal duties, a safe space and a fair platform for our young girls.

Oral Answers to Questions — Education

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

Questions 2 and 13 have been withdrawn.

Connie Egan (Alliance, North Down)

1. Ms Egan asked the Minister of Education to outline any engagement he has had with the Minister of Health to ensure that special schools are getting the support that they require from health professionals. (AQO 2299/22-27)

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I met the Minister of Health, Mr Nesbitt, in November 2024, and we discussed nursing provision in special schools. I await the outcome of the Public Health Agency review of health needs facing children in special schools. Of course, my officials continue to work closely with colleagues in the Department of Health and the Public Health Agency to consider issues that affect all schools, including our special schools.

Connie Egan (Alliance, North Down)

I thank the Minister for his answer. As I am sure that he knows, nurses support children with the most complex medical needs. Will he make the case to the Health Minister that they should not only be retained in schools but reinstated in schools that have removed them?

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

That was the basis of a meeting that I also held with the Chairman of the Education Committee, Mr Mathison, at which the case was made forcefully by principals in attendance about the need for medical professionals to be in their facilities. There was a period in which those services were withdrawn. The outworking of that meeting was a report that was commissioned by the Public Health Agency. I understand that that has been completed and submitted to the Chief Nursing Officer for assessment. I expect an outcome from that within the next number of months.

Cathy Mason (Sinn Féin, South Down)

Minister, you will be well aware of the situation in Knockevin School. Can you give us any update on communication that you have had with the principal there? That school has had its onsite nurse removed. You will also be well aware of the growing medical complexities that that school is facing. Can you give us any update on what your Department is doing in that regard?

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Fundamentally, the Department of Health needs to ensure that appropriate health professionals are available. The particular interest is around making sure that allied health professionals are available to help to meet the need. Knockevin and other special schools have made the case — I agree with them — that there needs to be an enhancement and greater provision of medical practitioners in those settings. We have an increasing number of children who, thankfully, are living longer with complex medical needs. They are entitled to an education, but they can receive that education only in special school settings when they are in receipt of the appropriate and necessary medical care. The Department of Health is required to step up and support me, as Education Minister. It is something on which I engaged the Minister of Health, Mr Nesbitt. He has confirmed that he wants to support me in doing that. However, he also indicated the financial pressures that his Department, like my Department, faces. I will continue to champion the needs of our special schools so that they get the right support from our medical professionals.

Stephen Dunne (DUP, North Down)

I appreciate the efforts that you are making on this important issue. Will you outline further what your Department is doing to address the difficulties in accessing support from allied health professionals, given what you have said about the increasing demand and pressures on our special school system?

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I made a transformational statement about special educational needs in the Assembly in January of this year. I quickly followed that up by publishing the special educational needs reform agenda, and I followed up on that with a five-year delivery plan in February 2025, outlining the measures that we need to take to transform our special educational needs provision. That work continues. Funding was secured from the Executive for the transformation work, which will allow us to make some progress in respect of the funding allocations. However, I say this to Members from all parties: if you are serious about helping children with special educational needs — I do not question that you are — that needs to be followed through so that, when I go to the Executive to seek financial support for day-to-day or capital expenditure, we prioritise children with special educational needs. I need Sinn Féin, which holds the purse strings, to support me on that, and it also requires other Ministers, some of whom campaigned for canteens for prisoners, to recognise that we should be getting support for our children with special educational needs. All parties will need to support me as I continue to make the case.

Colin McGrath (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

I certainly back what the Minister has just said about helping those in our special needs sector. He referenced earlier some conversations that he had had with the Health Minister. Were there any discussions about autism diagnosis and trying to speed up that process? The impact of delay is seriously restricting the educational outcomes of those people because we cannot get that tailored package for those pupils as quickly as possible.

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

The Member rightly raises the issue of the statementing process, which is often about carrying out the necessary assessments so that we can identify the needs. I have made it clear that we need to move away from a legalistic statementing process, because teachers can often identify that a young person or child, including those with autism, has additional needs, and we should be able to provide that support without having to go through an often litigious process during which parents are rightly fighting for their children. Part of the transformation that we announced in the reform delivery plan was very much about making sure that we are putting the right support in at the right time and not going through this bureaucratic process, which is often frustrating and delays the interventions that are necessary.

Timothy Gaston (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

The same crisis is affecting all sectors of the education system. The principal of a mainstream nursery in North Antrim that is taking part in the standardisation day is faced with a situation where a number of pupils who were referred to paediatrics by their health visitors have still not been seen prior to starting nursery. The waiting list for an ASD referral is three years. The standardisation programme helpline does not know what to do to move forward. Minister, do you? Will you commit to reviewing the funding available to nurseries that are taking part in the standardisation programme?

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

The Member has outlined issues that I am happy to come back to him on in correspondence. I think that the last point was to do with the standardisation process in nurseries. By that, I assume that he meant converting to full-time hours. Forgive me if I have misunderstood what he was trying to ask. The process around standardisation is one that we are taking forward. Starting this September, 2,500 places have been converted from part-time to full-time provision. That is a welcome increase in the ability of parents to have children in full-time places. We will seek to bring forward another 100 settings for the next academic year, and that will be another 2,000 places that we will move into full-time provision. That is a process that my Department, working with the Education Authority (EA), is carrying forward, and, of course, the criteria around that seek to ensure that there is fairness when it comes to the allocation of the standardisation process.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

3. Mr McGlone asked the Minister of Education to outline any recent discussions with the Minister for Infrastructure and the Education Authority on the need for the implementation of new school bus road safety measures. (AQO 2301/22-27)

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Ensuring the safety of pupils travelling to and from school is paramount. Recently, I met the Minister for Infrastructure and representatives from the Education Authority to discuss collaborative measures to improve bus safety. We reviewed the current safety measures on school buses, such as special lighting that alerts other motorists to exercise caution as schoolchildren may be boarding or alighting the bus. I understand that we are the only jurisdiction to have implemented such measures on school transport, and we discussed ways to refresh and reinforce that messaging. Road safety education within schools plays an important role in shaping the attitudes and behaviours of children and young people and helps them to become safer road users, both as children and into adulthood. The school curriculum also provides an opportunity for teachers to address road safety at primary and post-primary level. The Education Authority encourages schools to follow the DFI road safety guidance that is available online, and it offers additional safe school transport information to support the road safety campaigns of the Department for Infrastructure and Translink.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

Mr Speaker, I note that Deborah Erskine's question has been withdrawn, and, with your forbearance and permission, I take this opportunity to personally wish her all the best.

I will move on. Thank you for your answer, Minister. We have had a number of queries from constituents whose children have to walk along busy roads where the speed limit is 60 mph and there is no pathway or footpath.

Was that discussed at that meeting, or will the Minister chat to the Education Authority to establish whether, insofar as it is practicable, it could issue special bus passes in those circumstances?

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

When I met Minister Kimmins about that issue a week ago today, we discussed a range of issues to do with the safety of children and young people when they are accessing public transport and stepping off buses, as well as what measures we might take to provide more information. For example, how can we provide better information to those who are in receipt of bus passes and to their parents?

We therefore discussed a range of issues, including the safe location of pick-up points. It is ultimately the responsibility of parents to make sure that they transport their children and young people to the appropriate pick-up location. The Member highlighted the issue of people walking along country lanes and so on. That is a concern for me as Minister, but it is also a concern for me as a parent that we try to make sure that parents transport children to the approved pick-up locations. It is important that those locations be chosen in a way that maximises safety.

Linda Dillon (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Will the Minister outline any conversations that he has had with transport providers, including Translink, about ensuring that the pick-up and drop-off points are safe and that providers will be flexible? As the previous contributor outlined, it is not just about getting children to the pick-up and drop-off points but about what happens when they get out of their parents' car and have to stand there, because those places are sometimes not very safe. A wee bit more flexibility from transport providers in rural areas might be helpful.

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

It is a concern that we can all reflect on in our constituencies. Parents will want buses to pick up their children at the most convenient location, but there is also a tension, because providers, be they private bus operators or Translink, need to make sure that their buses access and stop at locations that are as safe as possible. Although everyone would like to be picked up from right beside their house, that is not always the safest location. Indeed, when it comes to having effective routes, it is not always possible to pick up everybody who is travelling to school on a particular route from their house, because of the time that it would take to have a collection point at each house. When it comes to not only the identification of safe locations but the effective operation of their routes, private bus operators and Translink constantly manage them to make sure that they are as safe as possible.

Jonathan Buckley (DUP, Upper Bann)

School transport safety is of paramount concern to parents. In that regard, I thank the Minister for his engagement over the past year to resolve an issue in my constituency in The Birches. Through the Minister's engagement, that rural area was able to ensure that it had a service for its pupils. Is the Minister content that he is ensuring that we get the best bang for our buck when it comes to relationships and contractual arrangements with Translink and other third-party bus operators?

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for his comments. He campaigned on issues concerning a particular bus route in his constituency, which we have now been able to resolve satisfactorily. When it comes to working on those particular issues, as I said to previous contributors, we are represented on the Department for Infrastructure-led strategic road safety forum. That forum brings together relevant Departments and organisations to make sure that, where we have a direct impact on road safety measures, the right people are there and engaging. My Department and the Education Authority contribute on that forum to the development of measures to try to make sure that we operate routes that are as safe as possible.

My appeal to the general population is this: when you drive near a bus that has pulled in, do not overtake it. I know that the Minister for Infrastructure wants to introduce legislation on that, but be aware that collisions often occur when young people are getting off a bus because a vehicle overtakes the bus. At times, those collisions have been fatal or caused serious injury.

There is responsibility on all of us, as road users, to be aware of what is happening around us and, particularly when it comes to school buses and the young people whom they transport, to be mindful of our actions as drivers.

Andrew McMurray (Alliance, South Down)

Minister, as part of your discussions with the Department for Infrastructure and the EA, will you raise the matter of and support changes to the physical infrastructure leading to and from schools in order to ensure the safety of the pupils and staff who attend them? I am sure that that is an issue for many rural schools, not least those that have seen towns grow up around them, with the challenges that that poses. Rathfriland High School in my constituency faces that problem.

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

The Member raises a good point. In the vicinity of the school environment, the Education Authority has responsibility for improving the management of vehicle movements; in the public highway, it is the responsibility of the Department for Infrastructure. We engage with DFI on where it can help to improve junctions where there are schools, and, indeed, at times, we push for reductions in speed limits. I have welcomed the continued roll-out of 20 mph limits at schools. There is an enforcement issue in that we need to remind road users of those, and I want to see greater visibility of the PSNI outside schools, particularly at peak rush hour, to send a message to road users to slow down. That is important, and it speaks to the point that I have responsibility, but, so, collectively, do other Departments and agencies, for ensuring that we maximise the safety of transportation around and in our schools.

Paula Bradshaw (Alliance, Belfast South)

4. Ms Bradshaw asked the Minister of Education for an update on the proposed new build for Malone Integrated College. (AQO 2302/22-27)

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

A technical feasibility report is being prepared by the project integrated consultant team in order to identify options and costs to provide suitable accommodation for Malone Integrated College. Once the feasibility report is complete, a review of the options identified will be undertaken by the Department's technical advisers. The technical feasibility report is due to be completed in October of this year. A business case to identify the preferred option will then be taken forward.

Paula Bradshaw (Alliance, Belfast South)

Thank you, Minister. It sounds as though good progress is being made, but I impress on you how that school could benefit from a new build. It is incredibly diverse, and it has an excellent education and pastoral support system in place. It could do a lot better if it had a new school building.

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I agree with the Member's sentiments on the need for progress to be made on the school. We are at the point of completing the stage 1 process, but there are other stages to go through. I want that to advance so that the project is subject to moving forward on a construction process when the capital budget is available. We are not at that stage, so I will not say to Members, "Give me more capital funding, and I could deliver this school". We still need to go through the various stages before I can make the case either for identifying the capital funding within my Department or for making a bid to the wider Executive as part of the Budget process for capital funding to be released, but I absolutely share the sentiments expressed by the Member.

Matthew O'Toole (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

Minister, Malone is a brilliant school, and it really deserves a new building. Is it not the case that, if the approvals go through, Malone will be added to a capital list that is already heavily oversubscribed? Can you give Malone and other schools in the constituency, including St Joseph's College on the Ravenhill Road, some sense of when progress will be made on that list? If you say that there is too much constraint, at least be honest today by and say when, you think, that might be delivered.

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

It is not about Malone being added to a list; it is one of many schools that are on that list. Of the 28 post-primary schools on the list that were identified for new build, only seven have moved forward to the various design stages — 21 schools have not advanced at all — and the 28 post-primary schools sit alongside primary schools on the list. The list is extensive. If we were to continue with the current projected capital expenditure, it would take decades to deliver what is already on the list of schools that require a new build. That is why I have not been able, much as I would like to, to open up a new call for schools to indicate that they require a new build. There are many schools that deserve a new build, but, because of the insufficient funding, we have not been able to do that.

Capital funding has been given a SEN-first priority. We have spent £114 million on special educational needs provision to provide capacity in the school estate. That was not additional funding that we were given. That funding could have been spent on other capital projects, but we — rightly, in my opinion — have to use it to meet the needs of children with special needs. They have had the first call on that funding. That is why the challenge, collectively, goes out to the wider Executive. Whilst Members will rightly vociferously campaign for new builds in their constituencies, when it comes to the reality of decisions that are being taken in the Executive by their leaderships, that is not reflected in the allocation that comes to my Department. That is the honesty that people in the Chamber need to have about the reality of the decision-making process in the Executive.

Peter Martin (DUP, North Down)

First, I thank the Minister for being in my constituency last week. His visits were excellent, and I know that the boards of governors and the principals very much appreciated them.

Minister, in a slight segue, you just referred to the capital list. How many schools in Northern Ireland are on that capital list and what is their status on it?

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for having me in North Down and giving me the opportunity to visit the schools that I was able to attend. I thank him for the work that he does to campaign for those schools.

To give the precise number, 103 projects have been announced under the major capital programme since 2012. A further 11 projects were transferred from Fresh Start funding to the programme in 2024. Of those 114 projects, 40 are complete; seven are on site or have appointed a contractor; 14 are at the technical design and pre-tender stage; nine are at the spatial coordination and detailed design stage; six are at the concept design stage; 14 are at the preparation and brief stage; and 22 are on hold. One project is awaiting an integrated consultant team appointment, and another has returned to the strategic definition stage following reconsideration of the size of the school that is required and planning requirements on the preferred site that was identified. That outlines in detail the significant pipeline of work and the insufficient funding that has been allocated to my Department to take those projects forward, never mind wanting to add further capital projects that the education system requires and deserves.

Doug Beattie (UUP, Upper Bann)

That answer was really interesting and, in many ways, answers my question. It is the type of question that allows us to bounce around constituency areas, as the Minister well knows. I have written to him about Portadown Integrated Nursery and Primary School, which has already jumped through all of the hoops that it needs to jump through and is waiting for the land to be purchased for its rebuild. Is the Minister able to give us a timeline on any progress for that school?

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for his question. He and others in Upper Bann have asked that question of me. That school is at the point at which it requires capital funding. It has completed all four of the stages that need to be completed. There is an issue regarding the council about the final site, but, like a number of schools, it is at the point at which it can move forward if there is capital funding available to do so. Frustrating as it is, the school is at a much more advanced stage than many other schools, but it is still waiting to get the green light as a result of my Department's insufficient capital allocation.