Northern Ireland Assembly, 20 May 2025

361 contributions from 51 members. The official report.

Members' Statements

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Any Member who wishes to be called to make a statement should indicate that by rising in their place. Members who are called will have up to three minutes to make their statement. I remind you all that interventions are not permitted. I will not take any points of order on this or any other matter until the item of business has finished.

Peter Martin (DUP, North Down)

Last week, at the Balmoral show, I saw the very best of our agri-food sector on display. As well as tasting some great food and drink, I saw plenty of animals and even ended up stroking an alpaca.

[Interruption.]

Yes, that is true, Phillip and Paul.

In the past couple of years, however, our hospitality and food sectors have taken a battering: most recently with the Labour Government's decisions to reform National Insurance and increase inheritance tax on farm properties. Yet, in spite of those challenges, the local food and drink sector in my constituency has continued to go from strength to strength, with some notable successes across the British Isles.

It is worth drawing attention to some of those stories and celebrating the achievements of local producers and hospitality businesses. Clandeboye Estate yogurt, which was started by the late Lady Dufferin, did fantastically well at the Irish Food Awards, with its raspberry and white chocolate pot recognised as the best product in Ireland. Ballyboley Dexters, a family-owned cattle farm, was acknowledged at the Great Taste Awards for its quality meat, which is produced using sustainable cattle farming techniques. It has also done great work to restore the historic Orlock Farm, which overlooks Belfast lough. Family-owned Primacy Meats was named retailer of the year at the Bangor Business Awards.

Our hospitality businesses have also found great success at a local level. The Bangla in Bangor, owned by Abdul Rob, won the award for best Northern Ireland restaurant at the acclaimed "Curry Oscars" in London, cementing its status as the best Asian restaurant in Northern Ireland for the third year running. The Crawfordsburn Inn won the atmospheric destination of the year award at the Irish food and hospitality awards. The Jamaica Inn won the award for best gastropub in the Ulster region at the Irish Restaurant Awards.

Honourable mentions go to Copeland Distillery, the Cleaver steakhouse and the Walled Garden in Helen's Bay amongst many other winners across my constituency. I should also mention the Star of Bengal, because it is my local Indian takeaway, and I highly recommend the lamb madras.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Your time is up, Peter.

Peter Martin (DUP, North Down)

That is probably a pretty good point on which to end.

Linda Dillon (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Today, I mark Dementia Action Week. I thank the Alzheimer's Society for the pin that it gave me as I came in here today and for all the work that it does with families and those who, unfortunately, suffer from the effects of Alzheimer's and other forms of dementia. The issue is a serious challenge for our health and social care system. In the North, treating dementia currently costs us £1 billion a year, and it is estimated that, in the next 15 years, that figure will rise to £2 billion. That is a serious cost to our economy, our society and our health system, but the greatest cost is to families: to those who suffer from dementia and to the people who love, support and look after them. We therefore need to make sure that we do all that we can.

There is much work happening in the field of research. Many drugs are coming online that can either delay or prevent dementia. We need to work hard, and our Minister needs to look at what can be done to ensure that those drugs are available to all who need them. We also need early diagnosis. We talked yesterday about the availability of and access to GPs. If people cannot access GPs and other services in the health sector, they will not get diagnosed, and it will then be too late for the medication to be of any use to them. I call on the Minister of Health to address and action that issue and to make sure that all people can get early access not only to GP services but to the services that are needed to diagnose them fully.

People have been crying out for help for many years. I am sure that there are Members in the Chamber today who have been affected. In my family, my cousins looked after their mummy, and my uncle looked after his wife, for many years as though she were an egg. She was a beautiful person inside and out. They did everything for her that they possibly could, and they did it with the support of the Alzheimer's Society. I acknowledge that it did a lot of work, but they were the ones who were there day in, day out. Her husband, daughter and sons cared for her, loved her, fed her and made sure that they talked to her just as they had talked to her every other day of her life. They did not treat her any differently, and that was so important.

To be able to do that, people require support from all of us in government to support them in the community, through the benefits that are available and through the health service. Every element of what we do here needs to be about supporting those families and the people affected. We must remember the many families who are impacted on, and there will be so many more. None of us knows whether we will be that person. I hope every day that it will not be me or anybody whom I love, but none of us knows. I therefore ask everybody to support Dementia Action Week, and I ask the Health Minister to make sure that people have early access to GPs and other health services.

John Blair (Alliance, South Antrim)

Today, I join the League Against Cruel Sports in recognising the importance of Fox Day, which will be celebrated this Thursday. That annual event gives us the opportunity to honour those extraordinary animals, to highlight their vital role in preserving our ecosystems and to advocate for their protection against cruelty. For centuries, foxes have been an integral part of Northern Ireland's wildlife. As a native species, they are revered for their adaptability and their intelligence. Foxes' presence in our environment not only is a testament to a healthy habitat but underscores their essential contribution to the biodiversity of our region. By supporting initiatives that protect those remarkable creatures, we ensure that future generations can enjoy and appreciate the unique wildlife that defines Northern Ireland.

Celebrating Fox Day therefore offers us a platform to educate ourselves about the critical importance of wildlife conservation and to stand firmly against any unnecessary harm that is inflicted on those creatures. That is why legislation is required to protect our foxes. Members will know that it is my intention to bring legislation to the Chamber imminently, through a private Member's Bill, to ban hunting wild mammals with dogs.

In closing, I encourage everyone to wear orange this Thursday as a show of support for these remarkable animals. That will highlight our dedication to safeguarding our ecosystems and denouncing all forms of animal cruelty. Of course, I also urge all Members to join me in supporting my private Member's Bill when the opportunity arises. Nature has no room for cruelty, and it is high time that the Assembly consigned the barbaric practice of hunting foxes for sport to history.

Robbie Butler (UUP, Lagan Valley)

I associate myself with the remarks made by Mrs Dillon about Dementia Action Week. My sister-in-law, who is only in her late 50s, has been impacted by the disease, as has her family. I thank the Member for mentioning the issue.

I congratulate Park School in Belfast on its production of 'Superhero School', which has been shortlisted in the "Best Film -12-15" category at the Into Film Awards 2025. The film's creation is a testament to the vision, creativity and determination of the young people who brought the project to life. Their success reflects not only their talent but a nurturing school environment in which each student is encouraged to dream big and reach as high as they can. What makes the achievement so special is that it comes from a school that understands the unique potential in every pupil. Park School is a place of ambition but not solely academic ambition. It has a broader vision of what success looks like for young people with additional needs. The nomination tells the story of a school community that believes in its students, invests in them and supports them to discover and share their voices in the world that we share.

Creating a film of that magnitude is no small task. It takes teamwork, storytelling, imagination and courage. Those are qualities that have clearly been fostered through the ethos of Park School. The pride that the students and their families, teachers and classroom assistants must feel is richly deserved. They are setting an example not just for other schools across Northern Ireland but for our entire society and are showing what is possible when inclusion, creativity and ambition go hand in hand.

The moment also highlights the ongoing need for meaningful post-19 education and opportunities for those young people. Alma White has wonderfully championed that need, and her ambition has led to Caleb's Cause, which campaigns to ensure that no young person is left behind when they leave school and, instead, is supported to live a full and flourishing life.

To all those involved in 'Superhero School', I say, "Well done. You have made Belfast and Northern Ireland proud, and, more important, you have shown what you are capable of when you are given the opportunity to shine". I wish them all the very best of luck at the Into Film Awards in London. However, I am sure that we all agree that they are already winners in every sense.

Mark Durkan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

As the chair of the all-party group on dementia, I would also like to speak about Dementia Action Week.

The Alzheimer's Society has indicated that around 25,000 people live with dementia across the North. However, more than a third of people with dementia do not have a diagnosis, so they cannot access the vital care, support and treatment that they need. I understand that getting a diagnosis can be daunting, but research shows that 97% of people affected by dementia have seen the benefit of a diagnosis. An early and accurate diagnosis helps people to live independently for longer, access existing treatments and avoid ending up in crisis. It also allows people to better understand their condition and plan for their future. Every year, those who are living with dementia but do not have a diagnosis account for around 15,000 visits to A&Es. That puts huge pressure on the wrong part of the health service: it is not good for the patients, the staff or the system.

This Dementia Action Week, the Alzheimer's Society is shining a light on the six most common early signs and symptoms of dementia and encouraging people to seek help, if they spot those signs in themselves or a loved one. Anyone with concerns can use its free symptom checklist and seek help.

The six most common symptoms of dementia are memory loss — problems recalling things that have happened recently; difficulty in organising thoughts; struggling to make decisions, solve problems or follow steps; problems with communication — difficulty in following conversations or finding the right words; problems with vision — difficulty in judging distances or perceiving object edges; confusion about time or place, losing track of the time or date or becoming confused about location; and changes in mood or personality, such as becoming unusually anxious, irritable or withdrawn.

Over the next 15 years, we will face a 51% jump in dementia cases, which will be the largest rise in the number of people living with dementia across these islands. By 2040, we will have over 37,000 people living with dementia. Each diagnosis has a whole-family impact. Dementia devastates lives, but, as we have heard, it also brings devastation to our economy: it costs over £1 billion currently, and that figure is set to rise to £2 billion by 2040, unless action is taken now.

Cheryl Brownlee (DUP, East Antrim)

I rise to highlight the growing and concerning issue of antisocial behaviour in the Carrickfergus area. Sadly, it is not a new problem in any part of Northern Ireland, but, in recent months, the scale and severity of incidents in Carrickfergus have increased significantly.

This past weekend, the Barn United Football and Social Club was once again targeted and damaged. On three separate occasions last week, club members arrived to find broken glass scattered across the 3G pitch, a stand destroyed, dugouts vandalised and surrounding infrastructure damaged. Even the CCTV system has been smashed. Barn United is a community club that is run by volunteers to serve the people of Carrickfergus. Those mindless acts of vandalism have not only put considerable financial strain on the club, which must now foot the bill for repairs, but taken a toll on the dedicated volunteers who give up their time so freely. Two young boys, Logan and Carter, kindly gave up their time to help clean the area. Their actions are a reminder that the vast majority of our young people are compassionate and responsible and care deeply about their community.

Barn United has engaged proactively with the Communities in Transition initiative and the PSNI in developing youth intervention projects, such as the Game Bus, to encourage positive youth engagement and respectful behaviour. Given those efforts, the repeated incidents of antisocial behaviour are understandably disheartening. It does not happen only at that club. The Marine Gardens area continues to see large gatherings, particularly at weekends, which leaves many residents feeling intimidated and unsafe.

I want to be clear: the antisocial behaviour does not represent the majority of our young people. Across Carrickfergus, we are so lucky to have so many inspiring young people and incredible organisations working day in, day out to make such a difference. Chill, Carrickfergus Community Forum, Carrick YMCA, Communities in Transition and many more groups and initiatives do an outstanding job, as Carrick Connect did previously, to build relationships, prevent harm and offer real support. Their work makes a huge difference on the ground in engaging with our young people and defusing issues before they escalate. I have engaged directly with the Chief Constable on the issue, and police communication and visibility have improved. However, it is clear that this is not a problem that can be solved by any individual, agency or organisation alone. It is a challenge for us all: elected representatives, police, community leaders, family and, most important, the young people themselves.

Paula Bradshaw (Alliance, Belfast South)

On Saturday night, I had the privilege of attending the 25th anniversary gala ball of Belfast Harlequins Hockey Club for both the men's and women's sections. Many of you who are familiar with south Belfast will know that the club was originally based at the North of Ireland Cricket Club ground on the Ormeau Road, which was subsequently developed into a successful housing scheme. The club then moved to its current site in Deramore. It is a multi-sports club that provides not just hockey for men and women but rugby and GAA. A quarter of a century on, the hockey side is embarking on a push for an upgrade of its pitch, a tender for which is out at the minute.

In just 25 years, the club has enjoyed considerable success, including providing two Women's Hockey World Cup finalists, an accomplishment that would have been unthinkable on the club's foundation. This season, the women's 1st team won the President's Cup, and the women's 2nd team won the junior league. The club was represented on the Irish masters team in New Zealand last year, as I referenced in a previous statement. In fact, first team player Katie Larmour is the latest Quins player to be called up to Ireland's senior international squad, which is perhaps apt, given the fact that her mum, Roisin Walsh, has led the club's thriving junior section for two decades.

What was striking about the event was the focus not on silverware and caps but rather on the lifelong friendships that flow throughout the club. It was pointed out that, across the club's mix of teams of different levels and maturity, you find that the youth team interacts with the veterans and the ones who are there just for fun are great friends with the elite players. Saturday night very much reflected that there is no hierarchy in the club. That, in the end, is what sport is all about. I wish Belfast Harlequins well in the future and look forward to their continued success.

Paul Frew (DUP, North Antrim)

I rise to raise awareness of a meeting that took place last week, on Tuesday 13 May, when Vaccine Injured and Bereaved Support (VIBS) NI took a delegation of bereaved and injured people to meet the Health Minister to talk about their conditions, their symptoms and their loss. I must say that they got hope from that meeting. I thank the Minister for meeting them and for providing that hope.

Those people have been gaslit, ignored and dismissed for far too long. A Member of the House even told them that they should not meet in Stormont and would be better meeting in a community centre. That is how those injured people have been treated to date. I press the Minister to do everything in his power to make sure that those people are, first, recognised — that the medical fraternity recognises them as vaccine-injured, because there is a fear in the medical profession that it dare not talk about vaccine injury — and that those people be given the support that they need to live the rest of their lives in fulfilment despite their injuries and loss.

It will be the biggest medical scandal in our lifetime, not because they were injured because they took a medicine — that is the most natural thing in the world — but because they were coerced into taking that medicine by parties in the House and Governments in Westminster and throughout the Western World. Since that and because of that, those people have been ignored. They have been an inconvenience. Those people need to know that they are not isolated and alone. Support group branches have now been set up in every county of Northern Ireland and practically every major town. Those people require that support from the charitable organisation VIBS NI, but they need so much more help from government, the Health Department and trusts. I am determined to make sure that they are recognised and acknowledged and that they receive the support that they so badly need.

Danny Donnelly (Alliance, East Antrim)

At the weekend, I had the privilege of attending the launch of the 2025 All-Ireland Coastal Rowing Championships in Glenarm in my constituency of East Antrim. It was a fantastic event that brought together rowers, volunteers, community leaders and even a special guest, double Olympian Rebecca Edwards, to kick off what promises to be a landmark summer of sport on the Antrim coast. Standing on the slipway in Glenarm and even getting out on the water in boats alongside local clubs, MLAs, our local MP, the mayor, the Communities Minister and Olympian Rebecca Edwards, I saw first-hand the energy, pride and momentum that is already building ahead of the main event in August.

The launch marked the start of a summer of rowing. I was delighted to speak to rowers and volunteers, some of whom shared how we can better support their clubs and this year's event. With clubs from the glens, Glenarm, Ballygally Castle, Cushendun, Whitehead and Carnlough, our coastal clubs will be racing most weekends from now until the championships in August, creating local buzz and drawing crowds right along the Antrim coast.

This August, the championships return north for the first time in over a decade and are set to be the biggest yet. Last year's event in Dingle, County Kerry, saw 550 crews, 71 races and 57 national titles. Glenarm is now preparing to welcome thousands of visitors across the weekend of 15, 16 and 17 August. The economic impact will be substantial. Accommodation along the coast is already heavily booked, with the event set to generate millions for local tourism and small businesses. From what I saw and heard over the weekend, our local clubs are more than ready.

Last year, Castle Rowing Club in Ballygally brought home two all-Ireland titles and two silver and three bronze medals. They have a history of great success across multiple years. Whitehead Coastal Rowing Club secured three silvers and a bronze, a result of hard work and dedication, and a Glenarm rower claimed two national titles as part of a composite crew. Those are not just medals; they are the result of years of dedication, grit and passion for the sport.

Now in its thirty-third year, the All-Ireland Coastal Rowing Championships are more than a sporting event: they unite people, building friendships, breaking down barriers and creating a sense of pride and community across the island. It is also a great sport, with huge benefits to physical and mental health.

I pay tribute to the Irish Coastal Rowing Federation, the Antrim Coast Rowing Association and the army of volunteers who make it possible. I will be backing our clubs all the way, and I encourage all Members to come along and experience this truly special sport and event for themselves. It will not disappoint.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Thank you. I call Timothy Gaston. Timothy, you have two minutes.

Timothy Gaston (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Thank you very much, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. There is no greater duty for public representatives than the proper stewardship of taxpayers' money, yet, last month, the House was advised that the Assembly Commission had reached a confidential settlement with contractors over the cost of repairing Stormont's roof — a multimillion-pound bill, no doubt. That is an outrageous situation: the public, whose money it is, are not permitted to know how much is involved in the settlement. The Commission, made up of Members of Sinn Féin, the DUP, Alliance, the Ulster Unionists and the SDLP, reached a secret deal with the contractor behind closed doors. That is not providing transparency. That is not delivering accountability. That is an evasion of holding people to account.

I hear growing frustration from people of all political backgrounds that Stormont has become a self-serving institution, quick to complain about a lack of funds from Westminster, while refusing to be accountable for the money in its control. That is not just bad governance; it is a betrayal of public trust to withhold details of what public money is spent on. In this case, water ingress arose from drilling into the concrete slab of the roof. The public want to know who signed off on such a scheme. Was the scheme approved by the Commission, who will not tell us how much it will cost to fix?

The same should apply to councils. Recently, Mid and East Antrim Borough Council settled a tribunal case using a non-disclosure agreement to hide the cost to the public. Whether it is in Stormont or local councils, the public deserve to know what their money is being spent on.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Thank you, Timothy. I call Gerry Carroll. Gerry, you have two minutes.

Gerry Carroll (People Before Profit Alliance, Belfast West)

Thank you, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. Over the weekend, in Belfast and across Ireland and the world, people gathered to commemorate the "Nakba" or, in English, "Catastrophe". The event marks the founding of the Israeli state 77 years ago this month. The Israeli state was founded in ethnic cleansing, displacement, slaughter and the belief not in coexistence but that it is OK to steal and occupy another people's land.

Zionism never did and does not today speak for all Jewish people, and a large number of Jewish people are defying what Israel represents. It is worth emphasising and challenging one of the many lies that Israel is based on: Palestine was not a land without people. It had people, culture and history for thousands of years. In response to the brutality of the Holocaust and the industrial attempts by European fascist powers to wipe out Jewish people, Zionism grew. Palestinians should not have been forced to pay then or now for the vicious crimes of antisemitic parties and forces in Europe — something that people in the House should do well to remember.

Since day one and before its inception, Israel has been backed by Western imperial powers.

It continued the sorry trend of settler colonialism — a project that has caused devastation worldwide and that would collapse without the military and financial support that it has.

As people in Ireland and elsewhere gathered to commemorate the Nakba, Israel continued to do what it has done since 1948. It relentlessly targeted Palestinian towns, villages and hospitals once again. Just yesterday morning, 23 Palestinians were killed. I ask these questions: do the lives of the millions of Palestinian hostages not matter? Do the lives of the 100,000 Palestinian hostages who were killed not matter? It is important that truth continues to be spoken to power. I commend people for continuing to protest. I also commend Louis Theroux for his excellent documentary, which showcased the truth behind the Israeli state.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

OK, Gerry; thank you. Phillip Brett, you have two minutes.

Phillip Brett (DUP, Belfast North)

Thank you, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. First, I associate myself with the remarks that were made about Dementia Action Week, and I take this opportunity to pay tribute to my constituent Emily Wilson for her tireless work and campaigning on that important issue.

As we mark the end of the VE Day anniversary and celebrations, I pay tribute to the communities the length and breadth of my North Belfast constituency that gave of their time to ensure that we commemorated and celebrated that important event. From Sandyknowes roundabout to the Shankill Road and everywhere in between, communities put on a great show. I will certainly and happily take this opportunity to name a few. I was delighted to attend events that were organised by the RATH Community Group; the Sons of Kai Flute Band; North Belfast Orange hall, from where my dodgy dancing skills have gone viral; Crusaders Football Club, which used the opportunity to raise funds for local charities; the White City over-50s; Seniors by the Shore; the Ballysillan Cultural Initiative; Alexandra Presbyterian Church; the Rathfern Social Activity Centre; Mountainview Battlefields Association; the Shore Crescent women's group; Rathcoole CREW; the Queens Park women's group; the Community Relations Council; and Lower Shankill residents' group.

The most poignant event was the opening of the military arch on the Shankill Road. It was attended by thousands of people from across Northern Ireland and was a fitting tribute to the men, women and children who gave their life for the freedom that we enjoy today. The arch was opened by World War II hero Victor Clarke and modern-day hero Andy Allen MLA. People from all communities and none came together to mark VE Day. As a representative of North Belfast, I say how proud I am of each and every one of those groups and I thank them for their continued service in ensuring that we remember our fallen heroes.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Thank you, Phillip.

Assembly Business

Timothy Gaston (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

On a point of order, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Go ahead.

Timothy Gaston (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Thank you very much. Yesterday, during Members' statements, I said that the media monitoring unit existed in the Executive Office. However, I have been advised that that is not the case. I would like to correct the record. It transpires that the unit in question is located in the Department of Finance and provides its services across the entire Executive, not solely to the Executive Office —

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Is there a point of order?

Timothy Gaston (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

— as I had indicated.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Timothy, could you get to your point of order, please?

Timothy Gaston (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Thank you very much. I apologise for suggesting that the Executive Office alone has such transcripts. It appears that all Departments get them through that pooled service, which, when you think about it, makes it even worse than I suggested yesterday. I trust that the record will be corrected.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

That was not a point of order, as you knew, but you have got your sorry-not-sorry apology on the record.

Ministerial Statement

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

The Speaker has received notice from the Minister of Health that he wishes to make a statement. Before I call the Minister, I remind Members that they must be concise in asking their question. This is not an opportunity for debate, and long introductions will not be allowed.

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

In compliance with section 52 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998, I wish to make the following statement on the twenty-sixth North/South Ministerial Council (NSMC) meeting in the health and food safety sectoral format, which was held in Armagh on Wednesday last, 14 May 2025. I was joined at the meeting by junior Minister Aisling Reilly MLA, who attended as the accompanying Minister. Jennifer Carroll MacNeill TD, Minister for Health, and Norma Foley TD, Minister for Children, Disability and Equality, represented the Government of Ireland. Minister Carroll MacNeill chaired the meeting. This statement has been agreed with junior Minister Reilly, and I make it on behalf of both of us.

On health, the Council welcomed the progress that has been made to date in implementing the Council's current work programme in the health sector. Ministers noted that both Health Departments have engaged on additional areas that have potential for further development and collaboration between the health authorities in both jurisdictions. That work is to ensure that the work programme reflects the priorities of each Administration and that a refreshed work programme will be presented at the next health and food safety sectoral meeting. I also took the opportunity to reiterate the benefit of enhancing practical North/South health cooperation and the value that it would have in sustaining and enhancing services in the border region.

In receiving an update on cooperation between the two Departments, the Council noted the ongoing collaboration on issues connected with alcohol and drug use, such as the sharing of learnings through the North/South alcohol policy advisory group; that work on suicide prevention initiatives in both jurisdictions is ongoing, including the exploration of potential opportunities for further joint working to prevent suicide; an update on the all-island congenital heart disease network; an update on cross-border emergency planning and response, where both Health Departments will work collaboratively to seek ways in which to further cooperate in emergency planning and response; the ongoing work between the Northern Ireland Ambulance Service and the National Ambulance Service; that the all-island medication safety conference took place in November 2024, with a further one planned in 2026; the signing of a memorandum of understanding between the Medicines Optimisation Innovation Centre and the Health Innovation Hub Ireland; and that funding of just over €85 million has been awarded to 10 projects under PEACE PLUS to target health inequalities among communities in Northern Ireland and the border counties of Ireland.

In relation to cancer, the Council noted the valuable services provided to children and their families by the Cancer Fund for Children and welcomed the progression of the Daisy Lodge therapeutic centre at Cong in County Mayo. Ministers welcomed the awarding of five research grants under the Ireland-Northern Ireland-US National Cancer Institute Cancer Consortium, which will enhance collaboration and innovation amongst cancer researchers and experts across the three jurisdictions. The Council noted the continuing efforts and engagement to improve cancer research and clinical trials on an island-of-Ireland scale and the benefits for patients from the ongoing cooperation and expansion of radiotherapy services at Altnagelvin Area Hospital. Ministers welcomed further cooperation on services provided through the North West Cancer Centre, the collaboration by both jurisdictions in working together to develop projects to improve cancer services for patients across both jurisdictions, and efforts to work together to develop a concept as a collaborative project.

The Council noted the existing work of the health sector in supporting biodiversity throughout its estates; the opportunity for the health sector to promote the physical and mental health co-benefits of actions to support biodiversity and address climate change; and the intention of both Departments to develop guidance and awareness-raising materials to support the promotion of biodiversity by both Departments and to report this at the next NSMC sectoral meeting.

Ministers received a presentation from the Institute of Public Health (IPH) on the policy interface between Ireland and Northern Ireland, with case studies from tobacco control, breastfeeding and data infrastructure. The Council noted that the IPH is working through evidence, policy and partnership to improve health equity and reduce health inequalities in Ireland and Northern Ireland, and noted opportunities for future cooperation between the two jurisdictions.

The Council approved the child protection work programme for 2025-28. It is focused on knowledge exchange on child welfare and protection developments; the identification and sharing of information on emerging complex child welfare protection issues and the consideration of their impact on cross-border working; and ongoing cross-border cooperation in relation to child welfare and protection. Ministers noted that the knowledge exchange forum, which brings together child protection practitioners from both jurisdictions, continues to meet to share information in the critical area of social work practice within child protection services. Ministers also noted that there has been significant awareness-raising work in both jurisdictions on the need for the dual registration of social workers in relation to children's cases with a cross-border dimension.

Let me now turn to food safety. The Council noted the progress report containing Safefood’s high-level achievements since the previous health and food safety sectoral meeting. They include its new food environment campaign 2024-28 to protect children’s health. That campaign was launched in June 2024 in partnership with the Departments of Health in both jurisdictions, the Public Health Agency (PHA), the Health Service Executive (HSE), the Food Safety Authority of Ireland (FSAI) and the Food Standards Agency (FSA). Noted high-level achievements also include the ongoing Safefood for Business training resources that Safefood provides for businesses across the island of Ireland that produce or sell food, about 80% of which are small food businesses; and the new extended 2025-28 community food initiatives programme that was developed in order to positively influence healthy eating habits, in low-income families especially, through the promotion of greater access to and availability of healthy and safe food, using a community development approach. The next noted high-level achievements are the food safety, nutrition and healthy eating promotion work that is done by Safefood through its various food safety and nutrition programmes and networks; and the research carried out by Safefood on a range of topics, including consumers’ use of smart devices, food poverty and food safety advice for vulnerable patients and residents in healthcare settings.

The Council approved Safefood’s business plans for 2019, 2020, 2022 and 2023 along with the associated budget and grant provision for each. It approved Safefood’s revised business plan for 2024 and noted the revised budget and grant provision. It also approved Safefood’s business plan for 2025 and recommended the associated budget and grant provision. Ministers noted Safefood’s corporate plans for 2020-22 and 2023-25 and the fact that, having been certified by the Comptrollers and Auditors General (C&AGs) in both jurisdictions, its annual report and accounts for 2023 have been laid before the Northern Ireland Assembly and both Houses of the Oireachtas. The Council also approved the appointment of 11 members to the Safefood advisory committee. The Council noted the Safefood presentation on the new community food initiative programme, which will run from 2025 to 2028. The aim of the programme is to positively influence the eating habits of people in low-income communities.

Finally, the Council agreed that the next NSMC health and food safety meeting will be held in autumn 2025.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Thank you, Minister. I remind Members that, if they wish to ask a question, they need to rise in their place. I call Colin McGrath as a member of the Opposition.

Colin McGrath (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

Thank you very much, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. I thank the Minister for his statement and that detail. I note that there were 221 suicides here in 2023 and that, in 2022, there were 436 suicides in the South. The statement referenced ongoing work on suicide prevention between the two Administrations. Will the Minister give some detail on what that joint working will entail? Minister, have you ever heard of the preventable deaths tracker, which is used in other jurisdictions to help to track circumstances of deaths, identifying patterns and targeting resources accordingly?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for the question and for that focus on suicide. He is well aware, as are other Members, that we are long past the point at which the number of lives lost to suicide in this jurisdiction since the Belfast/Good Friday Agreement in 1998 well exceeded the number of those who lost their life in conflict-related incidents during what we so euphemistically call the Troubles. At the moment, we are at the stage of sharing information to try to get a better understanding of what is going on. For example, we understand that there is a link between areas of deprivation and rates of attempted and completed suicide. That sharing of information is very important.

I have heard of the tracker to which the Member referred, but I think that there is an issue with it here and do not want to try to recall from memory exactly why that is the case. Let me take that away and come back to you, please.

Philip McGuigan (Sinn Féin, North Antrim)

I welcome the Minister's statement and the all-island approach to health matters and particularly to cancer, including continued engagement and improvement in the areas of clinical trials and cancer research. Will the Minister indicate whether that work will help to unlock the current challenges with the secondary use of data and whether it has the potential to bring about an island-wide hub for cancer research, which would ultimately lead to better outcomes for patients across Ireland?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for his question. Before I went to Armagh that day, I was at Croke Park in Dublin for an all-island cancer summit, at which a lot of emphasis was placed on collaboration on the island, not just on research but on clinical trials. We are potentially missing a trick when it comes to clinical trials. We do clinical trials, but there is the potential to do a lot more of them. Given the population and the size of the island, we are pretty ideally placed to do clinical trials on an all-island basis, and I am keen that we do them. The Member will be aware of the work of people such as Professor Mark Lawler and Professor Deirdre Heenan in this jurisdiction. I was encouraged by what I heard at that summit at Croke Park — it was an inaugural summit and very well attended — and I look forward to building on it through the work of not just the North/South Ministerial Council but the two Departments, North and South.

Diane Forsythe (DUP, South Down)

I thank the Minister for his statement. I will speak specifically about the Cancer Fund for Children. Last year, it was great to welcome the Minister to Newcastle in my constituency as we marked the 10th anniversary of the Daisy Lodge therapeutic centre there. In his statement, the Minister welcomed the progression of the Daisy Lodge centre in County Mayo. What plans does he have to support the Cancer Fund for Children with the two Daisy Lodge projects as they work together to provide and enhance their valuable services for children who are affected by cancer?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for her focus. Sorry, no pun intended. Daisy Lodge in Newcastle is a fantastic facility, and I really enjoyed my visit there. Apart from anything else, the location and the views are absolutely magnificent, and it is a calming environment for young children and their families. To see that replicated in Cong in County Mayo will be fantastic.

When it comes to the support that I can give, I will broaden that to include the community and voluntary sector. We could not deliver health and social care, imperfect as it is, in the manner in which we do without the support of that sector, including organisations such as Cancer Focus. Sadly, we will never have enough funds to give such organisations the maximum amount of money that they could use to maximise their ability to deliver. I can say only that I absolutely recognise the invaluable work that they do for health and social care delivery and promise that, in my days, I will do my utmost to support them, by which I mean support not with warm words but with finance.

Danny Donnelly (Alliance, East Antrim)

I also welcome the Minister's statement. There are clearly lots of opportunities for cross-border cooperation on health. I am particularly encouraged by the announcement of the €85 million that has been awarded to 10 projects under the PEACE PLUS programme to target health inequalities in communities in Northern Ireland and in the border counties. Can the Minister tell us more about the projects and how people in those areas will benefit from them?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for his question, but I cannot get into detail, because I do not have the full detail in front of me, and I am cautious because I may get as far as seven out of the 10 projects and leave some out. I can tell him, however, that all the projects are worthwhile. The Member is aware that I have a focus on health inequalities. The measure that I want to use to judge whether we are making a positive impact is healthy life expectancy. The Member will also know about the most shocking divergence that has been found by that measure, which is between two females who are born in Belfast and grow up a mile apart, one in the area of most deprivation and the other in the area of least deprivation. Their healthy life expectancy will vary by 14·1 years. That is utterly shocking. I will certainly write to the Member about the 10 projects that will get the €85 million of PEACE PLUS funding.

Alan Chambers (UUP, North Down)

I thank the Minister for his statement and welcome his ongoing engagement with his Southern counterpart. Does the Minister sense that the Republic's Minister for Health shares his desire to do things differently, including perhaps through taking a new approach to tackling common health inequality areas in order to improve outcomes for patients on both sides of the border?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I assure the Member that I believe that that is the case. I have now met Jennifer Carroll MacNeill on two occasions. We had a bilateral in Dublin before we visited the new children's hospital, which is an amazing facility. The scale of it is remarkable. Unfortunately, it has faced the same sorts of financial challenges that the maternity hospital at the Royal Victoria Hospital has faced. In talking to the Minister, I could see her determination to make sure that that hospital is up and running as soon as possible. We found a lot of common ground. The issue on which we found the most common ground regarding where we want to go was health inequalities. We are only in the foothills of that, so I do not want to raise expectations, but the Minister mentioned something to me, and we went into quite a detailed discussion about health inequalities. They are the same, whether you are talking about Coleraine, Limerick, Dublin, Belfast, Derry — you name it. I hope that, within the mandate, we will make a pitch to the Shared Island Fund for an initiative that could make a real difference in people's lives.

Linda Dillon (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I welcome the Minister's statement and his previous answer in particular. Can the information that will be shared with Mr Donnelly about those projects be shared with Health Committee members? That will be really important. It is really welcome that the Council approved the child protection work programme for 2025-28. Again, I would appreciate it if the detail of that could be shared with Committees. What in that, or in your conversations, will ensure that what happened to Kyran Durnin from Drogheda, a young boy who had supposedly moved to the North but was not followed up on and was murdered, never happens again? We know that the most dangerous place for a child in this country is in their own home.

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member. I found it hard to hear her — I think that she was a little bit off-mic — but I got the gist of what she said. I will certainly share the two pieces of information that she listed.

We were keen to discuss the fact that, when there is a tragic incident, we have to learn the lessons from it, not just through a paper exercise but by figuring out how we strategise and implement protections. I was very encouraged; Minister Foley is well across her brief, and we had a detailed discussion. Officials will continue to work, mindful that every incident is one that should never happen and has devastating consequences.

Phillip Brett (DUP, Belfast North)

I thank the Minister for his update. Were there any discussions about best practice in hospice care? In particular, the Minister will be aware of the difference in the funding model in the Republic of Ireland, where hospices are funded 100% by government. That is not the case here in Northern Ireland. Was there any discussion on how we can better support our hospices here?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member. There was no detailed discussion on hospice care during the sectoral meeting. Previously, as I said, I met Jennifer Carroll MacNeill, the Minister for Health in the Government of Ireland, down in Dublin. After that, I visited a hospice in Dublin. I got a briefing on the different funding arrangements, which are obviously much more advantageous to hospices in Dublin. I understand that former Taoiseach Leo Varadkar was instrumental in establishing that funding stream. I am a bit remiss, because Leo Varadkar has encouraged me to reach out to him to discuss the issues, and I have not done that yet. It is on my to-do list, and, if I am really honest, I have been a bit slow on it.

Órlaithí Flynn (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I thank the Minister for his statement. The statement referenced work on mental health, drug and alcohol services and mentioned the alcohol policy advisory group. Are any joint initiatives being planned in those areas? Was any cross-border cooperation discussed on the mother-and-baby unit, if we get to the point — hopefully, in a short time — of having one here?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

The detail was more on the food safety side of the fence. It is a matter of public note that we had hoped to make a successful pitch to the Shared Island Fund for the mother-and-baby unit. However, it was unsuccessful. That was when Stephen Donnelly was the Minister. With hindsight, perhaps we waited too long and gave them too much detail, because the answer that I got was a definitive no. Therefore, if we are pitching to the Shared Island Fund, we should not send in a 20-page, fully detailed proposal. It should be a one-pager to see whether it is interested, because, if it is just going to say no, there is no point in wasting that resource. If they say yes, you then go away and get down into the fine detail. The mother-and-baby unit will be based at Belfast City Hospital. We are at a pretty advanced stage with the business plan. I hope that, certainly during this calendar year, we will green-light it.

Alan Robinson (DUP, East Londonderry)

Like others, Minister, I welcome and acknowledge the progress and the work that is being done together on cancer research. Does the Minister acknowledge that it is very important that that work is embedded in the huge research hubs in Oxford, Cambridge and London? Will he also update the House on the cancer research strategy for Northern Ireland?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

Yes, I acknowledge the east-west link. That was also discussed on the fringes, at least, of the conference at Croke Park in Dublin that I mentioned.

I previously promised, because it was my expectation, that the cancer research strategy would be published by the end of the previous financial year. I was given the proposed strategy in time for it to be published before the end of the previous financial year, but I thought that more could be done to improve it. I wanted slightly more engagement with stakeholders so that I could be assured that they are satisfied with the strategy. Therefore, additional work is being carried out. We missed a deadline — hands up to that — but it will be worth it, because, when we get the strategy over the line and when I am satisfied with it and stakeholders are happier with it, it will be a more effective document.

Mark Durkan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

Minister, in your statement, you referred to:

"the ongoing collaboration on issues connected with alcohol and drug use".

Will you expand on that? Will you commit to exploring further opportunities for joint funding for addiction services in border areas? I think of Northlands Addiction Treatment Centre in my constituency, which has recently been stripped of its core funding?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I take a little exception to that last use of language, where the Member said that Northlands was "stripped of its core funding". We redesigned the core funding scheme, because it had not been reviewed in 20 years, which meant that any charity that had been established in that two-decade period could not even apply for core funding. The point was also made that core funding was an annual thing and that, just because you got it one year, you should not expect to get it the following year. It was redesigned at my request, and that was facilitated by the Northern Ireland Council for Voluntary Action (NICVA). Stakeholders were the co-designers of the scheme, and Northlands was unsuccessful. We used six criteria, I think, and they were not the Department's criteria but the stakeholders'. I very much regret the fact that Northlands is not in receipt of core grant funding, but it is wrong to say that we "stripped" it of that funding.

I am more than happy to work with the North/South Ministerial Council and with Jennifer Carroll MacNeill and consider whether that is an area in which a pitch to the Shared Island Fund would be appropriate. The fact that Northlands is up by the border makes it attractive.

Cheryl Brownlee (DUP, East Antrim)

My question follows on with the issue of alcohol and drug use. That was mentioned in the statement, but what was discussed? What update was provided in the meeting on how we can improve those services throughout Northern Ireland?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

In the broad area of alcohol, I wanted to discuss the benefits, as I see them, of minimum unit pricing for alcohol. Scotland and Wales have minimum unit pricing. The research that I have seen suggests that it works. The very esteemed health inequalities expert Professor Sir Michael Marmot agrees that minimum unit pricing works. I want to introduce legislation in this mandate to introduce minimum unit pricing for alcohol in Northern Ireland. To do that, I need Executive agreement, and I am afraid that I do not have that. I encourage the Member to reflect on why that may be.

Timothy Gaston (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Page 7 of the Minister's statement notes the:

"ongoing cross-border cooperation in relation to child welfare and protection."

Did the Minister raise with the Irish Government the failure of Dublin-headquartered institutions to contribute to the child abuse redress in Northern Ireland in relation to abuse in Roman Catholic Church institutions? It is an issue that has greatly exercised victims who have engaged with the Executive Office Committee.

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I think that the Member has answered his own question. I did not raise the issue at the North/South Ministerial Council meeting in sectoral format for health and food safety because it is an issue for the Executive Office.

Justin McNulty (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

Minister, you mentioned the success of the North West Cancer Centre and the ongoing cooperation and expansion of radiotherapy services at Altnagelvin Area Hospital on a North/South basis. With regard to the Taoiseach's Shared Island Fund and the cross-border dimension, was Daisy Hill Hospital and its prime location to serve as a cross-border hub with a specialism discussed?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I am glad that the Member is sitting down, because the answer is no.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

That concludes questions on the statement. Members should take their ease, please, before the next item of business.

Assembly Business

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

On a point of order, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. May I make a point of clarification?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

It depends on what you say.

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I want to clarify a point of detail from last week's Assembly debate on cancer waiting times. During the debate, I made reference to the Western Trust in particular being reliant on a single-handed dermatology consultant. That is the case, but it does not mean that the Western Trust has the worst waiting lists, and there was no intention to make such an implication. My point was to give some examples of some of the recruitment and service resilience challenges that are faced. To be clear, the Western Trust has some of the best waiting times in Northern Ireland for dermatology red-flag outpatient appointments. I am happy to put that on the record and to thank staff for their work.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

So it was not a point of order or clarification; it was brass-necking it, Minister

[Laughter.]

You now have it on the record.

(Mr Deputy Speaker [Mr Blair] in the Chair)

Private Members' Business

Maolíosa McHugh (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

I beg to move

That this Assembly notes National Museums NI’s (NMNI) commitment in its ethics policy to proactively seek to democratise and decolonise its collections through ethical collections development, research, partnerships and engagement; further notes the Inclusive Global Histories exhibition launched by Ulster Museum in 2022, which aims to demonstrate NMNI's commitment to decolonisation, diversity and inclusion; commends the continued repatriation efforts of NMNI regarding the return of human remains and other sacred objects to the people of Hawaii; acknowledges the immense cultural, social and historical significance that the return of artefacts represents to societies and indigenous communities impacted by colonialism around the world, including on this island; encourages museums to further develop and expand decolonisation policies, such as cooperating with requests for the repatriation of art and artefacts; and calls on the Minister for Communities to support museums here in their efforts to decolonise their collections.

John Blair (Alliance, South Antrim)

The Business Committee has agreed to allow up to one hour and 30 minutes for the debate. The proposer of the motion will have 10 minutes to propose and 10 minutes to make a winding-up speech. As an amendment has been selected and is published on the Marshalled List, the Business Committee has agreed that 15 minutes will be added to the total time for the debate. Please open the debate on the motion, Mr McHugh.

Maolíosa McHugh (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle.

[Translation: Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.]

The motion advocates the decolonisation of museum collections and the repatriation of artefacts. That initiative is not merely about returning objects; it is about restoring dignity, acknowledging historical injustices and fostering genuine reconciliation with communities whose heritage has been displaced. National Museums NI has, commendably, taken steps in that direction. In 2022, the Ulster Museum launched the Inclusive Global Histories exhibition, marking a significant move towards decolonising its collections. That exhibition critically examines the provenance of artefacts, many of which were acquired during colonial times, and seeks to present them in their rightful cultural context. By doing so, NMNI is not only educating the public but challenging long-standing narratives that have marginalised indigenous voices.

A poignant example of NMNI's commitment is the repatriation of ancestral Hawaiian human remains and sacred objects. Those items, removed in the 19th century, were returned to native Hawaiian representatives in a ceremony that underscored the importance of cultural respect and healing. As Carmen Hulu Lindsey of the Office of Hawaiian Affairs aptly stated, that act was "much needed and long overdue".

Beidh cluasáin de dhíth anois.

[Translation: You will now need headphones.]

Is amhlaidh a bhí sampla againn ar thaisí á gcur ar ais chun a ndúiche féin anseo in Éirinn ar na mallaibh. Tógadh trí cloigne déag ó Inis Bó Finne sa bhliain 1890 gur coinníodh i gColáiste na Tríonóide i mBaile Átha Cliath iad. Tógadh na cloigne gan cead a fháil ó mhuintir na háite san am sin. Rinneadh dianstocaireacht agus chuir muintir Inis Bó Finne a n-ainm le hachainí sa chruth gur cuireadh na taisí ar ais chun an oileáin, áit ar cuireadh i gcré na cille iad. Ghabh Coláiste na Tríonóide a leithscéal as an bhuairt mhór a cuireadh ar mhuintir an oileáin toisc na taisí sin a thógáil, tá 133 bliana ó shin. Anuas air sin, tá Meitheal Athbhreithnithe ar Oidreachtaí Choláiste na Tríonóide, tá sin ag déanamh athbhreithiú ar an bhaint a bhí ag an Choláiste leis an sclábhaíocht agus le hImpireacht na Breataine.

[Translation: In fact, here on the island of Ireland, we had a recent example of the repatriation of remains. Thirteen skulls were removed in 1890 from the island of Inishbofin and kept in Trinity College Dublin without the permission of the islanders at that time. Recently, after intensive lobbying and a petition signed by the current inhabitants of Inishbofin, the remains were returned to the island, where they were respectfully reinterred. An apology was given by Trinity College for the obvious upset caused by the removal of these remains 133 years ago, and in addition, the University’s Legacy Review Working group is reviewing its links with slavery and the British Empire.]

Decolonising museum collections is not just an ethical imperative; it enriches our understanding of history by incorporating diverse perspectives and challenges all to confront uncomfortable truths and engage in meaningful dialogue with communities worldwide. By supporting the motion, we affirm our commitment to justice, inclusivity and the transformative power of acknowledging and rectifying past wrongs. Let us therefore endorse the motion wholeheartedly and set a precedent for museums everywhere to follow in the pursuit of equity and historical integrity.

Doug Beattie (UUP, Upper Bann)

I beg to move the following amendment:

Leave out all after "impacted" and insert: "; recognises that many museums are already working under significant financial constraints and that their primary responsibility must remain the preservation, interpretation and accessibility of collections that reflect history and identity; believes that while the ethical return of human remains or sacred objects may be appropriate in individual, evidence-based cases, this should not be confused with a broader mandate to revise or remove shared cultural artefacts that help tell our collective story; further acknowledges the risk of ideologically driven international campaigns around cultural or historical revisionism and blame that may not reflect the unique context or priorities of each society, nor the complexities surrounding provenance, acquisition and legal ownership in many historical cases; further recognises that such artefacts are often preserved and made accessible through the expertise, conservation facilities and educational programmes offered by museums, enabling them to serve as valuable resources for public learning and community cohesion; and calls on the Minister for Communities to support museums in developing their ethical policies with a focus on access, education and reconciliation, ensuring that resources are directed toward programmes that foster understanding within and between communities."

John Blair (Alliance, South Antrim)

You will have 10 minutes to propose the amendment and five minutes to make a winding-up speech. All other Members who speak in the debate will have five minutes. Please open the debate on the amendment.

Doug Beattie (UUP, Upper Bann)

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I have to start by saying, although I will not dwell on the issue, that there is a certain irony in a Sinn Féin motion that includes returning human remains to Hawaii while we still wait for the return of the human remains of those who were disappeared. I ask the party opposite to use the influence that it still exerts on those responsible to have the remains of Columba McVeigh, Joe Lynskey, Seamus Maguire and Robert Nairac repatriated to their families.

I have to admit that, when I first read the motion, I had two thoughts. First, the motion sounded like a bit of Brit-bashing. Secondly, the motion lacks any kind of nuance and is grounded purely on decolonisation without looking at what else museums offer, particularly education and learning. Our amendment aims to address that. For example, National Museums NI clearly states that it is:

"a leading cultural institution in Northern Ireland. We are responsible for ensuring that Northern Ireland's significant collection is developed, cared for, and accessible to the widest possible audience."

For us, the museum is a place of learning and understanding our past, the shared history, the global cultures and the painful parts of our past. Clearly, returning ancient remains and artefacts to Hawaii was the right thing to do, but was that part of decolonisation? The artefacts in question were donated to the museum by Mr Gordon Augustus Thomson, an ethnologist who studied people and culture. He was not part of any colonisation of the Hawaiian Islands or Sandwich Islands, when he visited them in 1835. Indeed, the UK is held in such high regard in Hawaii that the Union flag still forms part of the Hawaiian national flag and Great Seal.

Many items in museums in Northern Ireland are protected and preserved and tell a story. Some were acquired through conflict; some through expeditions; and some via trade. Some would be lost, if they were not protected. Do we need to protect artefacts? Are they in danger? Let us take ourselves to Dublin in 1966, when Nelson's pillar, which dated back to 1808 and marked an important moment of our history, was deliberately reduced to rubble by an IRA bomb. It was not dismantled and returned to the UK, possibly to the national museum; it was just destroyed due to hatred of others' history and culture. We saw the similar destruction of artefacts in Afghanistan when the 6th-century Bamiyan Buddhas were destroyed by the Taliban in 2001 and when ISIS destroyed the great Baalshamin temple at Palmyra in Syria.

Museums have a role to protect, preserve and make artefacts available. That assists learning and understanding of cultures past and present. National Museums NI states:

"The Inclusive Global Histories project involves understanding the ways in which colonialism is rooted in our collection and working to address racism and exclusionary practices. This approach is not limited to the exhibition but extends across our collections and sites."

Sanitising such collections does not help us learn. Museums need to help us learn, and, for generations to come, an understanding of our shared history is a story worth telling. Part of that has an expeditionary nature to it, given the British and Irish impact globally. Even the negative impact tells a story.

The Sinn Féin motion mentions "colonialism ... on this island". That includes the 15,000 ecological items in Irish museums from Africa, Asia and the Far East that the Irish collections provenance working group identified before it was disbanded 2023, with no action being taken to return any of them. They are not on display; they are just being held. It also includes two highly sacred whale teeth from the Solomon Islands, which were donated in 1900. There is even a Cromwellian armoured breastplate with a musket ball through the chest. Should that be returned as stolen loot? I do not think so. It needs to be held, retained and used as an aid to learning.

Of course, there are items in Northern Ireland museums that you could put down to colonialism, because, hundreds of years ago, that is how the world was. It was a world of exploration and understanding but with primitive knowledge of the impact on various cultures. No matter how hard we try, we cannot fix what happened two, three or four centuries ago, but we can learn. Museums help us learn, and the stuff that is retained in them helps us understand better.

How about a spear from Benin, a colonial artefact from the French protectorate — it was not colonised by the British — donated following an expedition in the area? What can we learn from that about the culture of the time? A bronze manilla or bracelet from West Africa — without a doubt, from when the area was colonised. It was used as currency in the slave trade. Can we learn from that? Can we expose the collective shame of the slave trade or just return the manilla in order to sanitise our museum collection? I say that the former is more important. A Solomon Islands tomako — war canoe — from the World Cultures collection is an important artefact in understanding the cultures and civilisations of the time.

To me, learning about and understanding other cultures and people is important, while protecting and caring for our own history. I am a great believer in protecting our indigenous heritage. Some will know that I have raised many issues in regard to Knock Iveagh, a neolithic site just outside Rathfriland that is older than the Pyramids. We stuck a wind turbine on top of it. The Ballintaggart giant gravestones, a 6,000-year-old court tomb that we excavated in 1966, sat idle in the Ulster Museum before being replaced not to the original site where they were ripped up from but to somewhere else. It is a failure of our historical environment division that sits alongside the destruction of an early Christian rath in Waringstown. I add that the present Minister was not in the chair at any stage of that.

I have no issue with certain items, such as ancient Hawaiian remains and artefacts, being returned, but to completely sanitise our museum collections would remove a key asset in learning. My party's amendment makes it clear that we must protect and preserve items of cultural and historical importance whilst supporting National Museums Northern Ireland's ethical policies. We can do so by understanding who we are, where we came from, what influenced us and who we influenced, and what our impact on the world was, positive and negative. We cannot just wish any of this away; we need to preserve it. In preserving it, we learn. I learn, you learn and our children learn by seeing these items. I ask Members to look at our amendment and see that we have not taken away the key components of the Sinn Féin motion, but we have brought nuance that allows us to look at items that we held, some with shame, and remember that we can learn from that. In learning, we can make sure that we do not repeat what we did in the past.

Brian Kingston (DUP, Belfast North)

The well-known opening sentence of L P Hartley's 'The Go-Between' is:

"The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there".

The relevance of that quote is that we cannot fairly judge the actions of history by our 21st-century standards. Empires have been normal throughout the history of the world. It has been a continual cycle of rise and fall that continues to this day, albeit in different forms. If nations or communities request items back that were acquired unlawfully, it is right that museums work with those communities and cooperate with their requests. We have seen the Ulster Museum's continued work with the Office of Hawaiian Affairs. National Museums Northern Ireland acknowledges in its collections development policy that there is a complex and sensitive legacy to address today. We know that those issues are complex, but we should not be placing an undue burden on our museums to address the political activism of the 21st century. What exactly is meant by "decolonising"? Without proper dialogue, it may be nothing short of virtue signalling. Speaking about empire, we need more nuance than to say that it was simply good or bad. Where does decolonisation end? With the bulldozing of the Colosseum?

The SDLP Member for East Londonderry took to social media recently claiming that "the coloniser mindset runs deep". If we were to decolonise museums, perhaps the SDLP could let us know whether unionists would be allowed to enter the building. We have fantastic museums in Northern Ireland; places where people can visit and see how machinery worked, how people lived and thought and what they created.

A Member

Will the Member give way?

Brian Kingston (DUP, Belfast North)

No, I will not have time. Sorry.

Visitors are presented with the information and make their own judgement. It might be a surprise to some Members, but people are capable of using their critical judgement skills and reaching their own conclusions. They do not need to be lectured or told how or what to think. Museums should not hide from difficult areas of history or sanitise our history or their collections. Tristram Hunt, director of the Victoria and Albert (V&A) Museum, said:

"For a museum like the V&A, to decolonise is to decontextualise".

The British Empire has been called:

"a global mosaic of almost ungraspable complexity and staggering contrasts",

so any generalisation comes with risk. Alongside a history of violence, there is a history of cosmopolitanism and trade. We saw the Benin Bronzes returned to the current oba — king — of Benin, and the Nigerian Government issued a decree to give the oba exclusive rights to all repatriated bronzes. Will the same fate befall all other repatriated artefacts such that, rather than being the common property of all the citizens of a nation, they become the personal property of its ruler?

The Communities Minister is committed to ensuring that our museums are accessible to as many people as possible so that people from around the globe can admire their collections. Recently, he announced £750,000 for the Ulster American Folk Park in County Tyrone. To simply return items to one country or another would be to segregate cultures. Exchange programmes between museums is one possible solution to that problem, as it would ensure that more people could admire more artefacts from different parts of the world.

The motion refers to the impact of colonialism "on this island". Professor of modern history at Trinity College Dublin Jane Ohlmeyer said:

"Both Irish catholics and protestants were active agents in the making of the Empire"

and that the Irish people:

"were active in all the European empires and even the spiritual empires – through the Catholic schools and the Jesuits".

The British Empire was synonymous with economic development, building infrastructure, promoting education and providing medical treatment. Those facts are not convenient to detractors, as they expose as myths their claims of perpetual victimhood and nationalist struggles for freedom.

We will not support the Sinn Féin motion. The Ulster Unionist Party amendment replaces wording at the end of the motion, improving it by introducing more balanced wording, so we will support that amendment.

Stewart Dickson (Alliance, East Antrim)

I will represent my party colleague Sian Mulholland, who has another engagement. She is a member of the Communities Committee.

We welcome the motion. On behalf of the Alliance Party, I offer support not just for the motion but for the principles that underpin it: justice, openness and cultural respect. National Museums Northern Ireland's commitment to ethical collections development and active decolonisation of their collections is commendable. Through research, partnership and engagement with communities, National Museums Northern Ireland has shown that decolonisation is not simply about the past but about shaping a more inclusive, accountable and truthful future.

Reference has been made to the Inclusive Global Histories exhibition that was launched at the Ulster Museum in 2022. That is a powerful example of ambition in action. It invites and challenges us to confront the way in which artefacts were acquired, the stories that we have chosen to tell and the voices that have been excluded from those narratives. It does so not through shame or erasure but through inclusion, dialogue and learning. That is precisely the approach that we in the Alliance Party support: not rewriting history but deepening it; not erasing the past but confronting it honestly and building trust for a shared future.

National Museums Northern Ireland has already taken practical action. The return of ancestral remains to Hawaii is a deeply respectful step that reflects not only international best practice but basic human dignity. It recognises that culture is not a trophy and that heritage is not a possession but a living part of identity. In our context, Britishness and Irishness are deeply felt and not easily mapped on to the cultural binaries that are seen elsewhere. National Museums Northern Ireland has rightly recognised that any decolonisation work must reflect our shared and interwoven histories and must be careful not to undermine the core principle of decolonisation, which is to address racism and exclusionary practices while respecting identities. Its curatorial commitment to dialogue, especially with those for whom collections are of special significance, reflects a model from which, as a hospitable, inclusive and respectful approach that encourages reflection without imposition, we can all learn, especially here in the Assembly at times.

Those efforts stand in contrast to the more rigid approaches that treat artefacts largely as objects of legal preservation rather than as living cultural expressions with emotional and ethical significance. Recognising harm, returning what was taken without consent and restoring dignity is not some sort of moral absolutism but common decency. The past is complex, but complexity cannot be a shield for inaction or delay. We must resist simplistic binaries, because it is not the case that we should return everything or return nothing. Rather, it is about evidence-led, case-by-case decisions that are grounded in provenance, research, legal clarity, meaningful community engagement and public transparency. That is why the Alliance Party fully supports that approach, which is rooted in principle and driven by evidence and accountability. Critically, Northern Ireland is well placed to lead on that.

Unlike institutions in the rest of the United Kingdom that are governed by the British Museum Act 1963, National Museums Northern Ireland is not barred by statute from making ethical returns. We have greater flexibility, and we should use it wisely and courageously. National Museums Northern Ireland's internal guidance, 'Supporting Decolonisation in Northern Ireland', encourages museums to:

"Be positive and do not be afraid",

and we wholeheartedly support that.

That ambition, however, must be met with support. That is why the motion calls for ministerial leadership. We need the Department for Communities to fund provenance research and digitisation, to support partnerships with local communities and international source communities and to provide clear and consistent guidance to help museums navigate claims with confidence and care.

Let me be clear: it is not just a matter of good practice but one of international responsibility. Article 12 of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples is explicit:

"States shall seek to enable the access and/or repatriation of ceremonial objects and human remains in their possession through fair, transparent and effective mechanisms developed in conjunction with indigenous peoples concerned."

That gives clear moral and international backing for the type of work that is being undertaken here. We also need to broaden that work beyond museums. We need to embed it in our schools and public institutions and in our cultural policy so that all communities in Northern Ireland can see themselves reflected in the stories that we tell. It is not just about artefacts —

John Blair (Alliance, South Antrim)

Time is up, Mr Dickson. Apologies.

Stewart Dickson (Alliance, East Antrim)

— but about apologies and inclusion.

John Blair (Alliance, South Antrim)

Time is up. Thank you.

Daniel McCrossan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, West Tyrone)

I support the motion. The SDLP will not be supporting the amendment, however. At its core, the motion asks us to reflect deeply on the role of museums in shaping how we understand the past and how we move forward into a more just and inclusive future. National Museums Northern Ireland and, indeed, the Ulster Museum have shown leadership by actively embracing decolonisation through exhibitions such as Inclusive Global Histories and through the ethical repatriation of human remains and sacred objects to the people of Hawaii.

That is not just commendable but morally necessary and shows leadership from our local museums. Decolonisation is not about erasing history, nor is it about hiding artefacts or whitewashing our shared past. Quite the opposite: it is about telling the full story, which is one that includes the voices and experiences of peoples who for centuries were silenced, exploited and stripped of their cultural identities. When we return human remains or sacred objects to indigenous communities, we are not surrendering history but honouring it. We are saying, "We hear you, we acknowledge your pain and we can and will do better in future".

The amendment seeks to dilute that message, as it suggests that returning artefacts could be confused with ideological revisionism.

I tend to disagree. This is not about blame; it is about responsibility. The amendment also implies that the ethical return of artefacts risks undermining collective heritage, but whose heritage are we speaking of, because many communities around the world have had their cultural identity stolen, displayed and sometimes even distorted without their consent? On this island, with our own history of colonisation, appropriation and displacement, we, above all people, should understand why decolonisation matters. We know what it is like to be silenced and to have our history told by others. I understand that museums face financial pressures, but ethical repatriation is not a financial burden; it is an act of moral leadership and courage. In many cases, repatriation opens the door to new global partnerships, collaborative research and mutual learning. It builds trust and it builds bridges. We must not let short-term funding challenges be used as a reason for holding on to the legacies of colonialism.

Education is key, and museums play a vital role in that, but education cannot come at the expense of justice. The real lesson for us all — for our children, our schools and our communities — is that we are willing to admit when wrongs have been done and to take meaningful action and steps to repair them.

The original motion reflects a more forward-looking vision for museums as places not just of preservation but of reconciliation, where the past is not hidden but confronted ethically, honestly and inclusively. I urge colleagues to reject the amendment and to stand in support of the original motion in order to support our museums, our communities and our shared responsibility to decolonise our understanding of the past.

Emma Sheerin (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I welcome the opportunity to speak on this important motion, and I welcome the support for it from across the House. I note that the party opposite has stated that it supports the returning of artefacts to their home nations, which is exactly what the motion calls for. The conversation thus far has been respectful, which is welcome. That is largely what this is about: respecting different narratives and reflections on the past and having an honest conversation.

We know that our museums offer so much. They are a tourism and education opportunity. Telling the story accurately while acknowledging past hurt and different perspectives on how events unfolded will always lead to a better education piece and a better tourism experience. That is key to what we are asking for here. If we are to get to a place where the pain of those who have suffered in the past can in any way be rectified, we have to be honest about what caused it. There is space there for different people's accounts and narratives to be reflected. Our museums are doing good work in that regard, and they should be supported in that.

We want to offer people an authentic experience. We want to encourage more visitors to our island, and we want to bring people in and tell them the whole story, because we know that the hurt of past communities is exacerbated when their pain is not acknowledged or reflected. Others have referred to the fact that, when countries receive artefacts back and do so in a respectful way, that allows the story to be told in both places honestly. We need education, but we do not need to educate anyone at the expense of any other community, particularly one that has already had wrongs perpetrated against it.

That is what the motion is about. It is about recognising the fact that our museums have already given a clear commitment to the decolonisation of artefacts, where possible, and that they want to engage with countries around the world and, again, where possible, return artefacts. We want to support them in doing so. Through that, everyone involved will have a better experience. That is what the motion is about; it is not about bashing anyone. The past happened. If we are ever to deal with it, we have to talk about it openly and honestly and move on from there. That is what the motion calls for, and I would welcome support for it from across the House.

Timothy Gaston (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

The so-called decolonisation of museum collections is, in truth, something that my staff are more exercised about than I am. That having been said, I want to address one specific aspect of the motion that is before us, namely the call for:

"the return of human remains".

Let me be clear: any conversation about dignity, respect and historical justice must begin with moral consistency. As long as the signatories to the motion continue to defend, justify or celebrate their wicked IRA, which abducted, murdered and secretly buried more than a dozen innocent people, they are in no position to lecture anyone about how we should honour the dead. The irony of Maolíosa McHugh proposing a motion of this nature shows that Sinn Féin is a party with no remorse for the abduction —

John Blair (Alliance, South Antrim)

Mr Gaston.

Timothy Gaston (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

— and murder that was carried out —

John Blair (Alliance, South Antrim)

Mr Gaston.

Timothy Gaston (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

— by their friends in the IRA.

John Blair (Alliance, South Antrim)

Mr Gaston, you can hear me. If you resume your seat, that will be the easiest way to make you listen. I will stand. Mr Gaston, there will be no direct attack on another Member. You have been afforded quite a bit of latitude. I ask you to return to the terms of the motion.

Timothy Gaston (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

I have concluded my comments.

John Blair (Alliance, South Antrim)

Are you finished?

Timothy Gaston (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Yes.

John Blair (Alliance, South Antrim)

OK. We have reached the end of the list of Members who wish to speak. I ask the Minister for Communities to respond. Minister, you have up to 15 minutes.

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I welcome the opportunity to respond to the motion on the decolonisation of museum collections and the repatriation of artefacts.

Museums are in the unique position of holding collections through which they can tell the stories of the past in order to engage, educate and inspire. Those stories can cross traditional, cultural and societal divides to bring people together over shared histories, but, equally importantly, they can facilitate difficult discussions and debates. I am aware of the live issues that face our museums regarding the ethics of some of the collections that they hold and the challenges that they face in taking responsibility for the future of those objects. I have seen, at first hand, the work that museums can do to bring people from different cultural backgrounds together, both at home, where National Museums NI engages marginalised communities through the Global Voices Local Choices project, and, in the United States, with the work of Lonnie Bunch, the Secretary of the Smithsonian Institution. In recognition of the important role that museums play in our society, a new museums policy is a central plank in the heritage, culture and creativity programme that I established last summer. I expect that policy to be ready by the end of the year. My intention is to support the work of our culture and heritage institutions and communities and to help protect and promote our tangible and intangible cultural heritage.

This debate centres on collections. Our museums hold some extraordinary items. Those collections and markers of our past are not just the preserve of the great collections at National Museum Northern Ireland sites; they are held elsewhere in Northern Ireland as well. The collections are not just about holding objects from the past; they are about collecting, preserving and telling stories about how we came to be here and about the influences that, for good or ill, have helped to shape where we are, how we live today and how we regard and understand each other.

I have concerns about the motion, not because I dismiss the value of cultural sensitivity or the ethical stewardship of museum collections, but because of what I have seen of the so-called decolonisation agenda that other Members have presented today. That leads me to believe that, perhaps, this is less about justice and more about a politically motivated, anti-British campaign. Let us consider the practical implications of the motion. It encourages museums to cooperate:

"with requests for the repatriation of art and artefacts".

On the surface, that seems reasonable. The motion cites the return of human remains to Hawaii as a success, and I do not dispute the moral case for doing that — few would. However, let us be clear: that is a narrow example that is being used to justify a much broader agenda. Moreover, who decides what gets repatriated? The vague call to cooperate with requests opens the door to endless demands, often from groups with tenuous claims to ownership. Many artefacts were legally acquired through trade, gifts or salvage. Others come from regions where modern nation states did not exist at the time of acquisition. The logic of decolonisation, as presented today, unravels when applied consistently, and it becomes a Pandora's box of competing claims driven not by ethics but by political pressure.

Justin McNulty (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

Will the Minister give way?

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

I am happy to give way to the Member.

Justin McNulty (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

Minister, do you agree that the pillaging of global treasures and artefacts by the British Empire is not really defensible and that all artefacts of cultural and symbolic significance should be returned to their place of origin? For example, the Elgin Marbles should be returned to the Greeks by the British Museum: does the Minister agree?

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

I do not agree with the Member's comment, because he is treating every artefact that did not originate in this place in the same way. That is simply not the case. Had the Member been listening to what I have just said, he would have realised that the artefacts and items in our collections come from many different places and were acquired by different means. Am I opposed to having the conversations and making sure that we do this in a sensible and appropriate way? No. Absolutely, that should be the case. In opposing the motion, I do not advocate a whitewashing of history. Museums should engage with communities, acknowledge contested provenance and present balanced narratives, but they must do so without succumbing to a politicised agenda that distorts the past to serve present-day ideologies.

The Inclusive Global Histories exhibition, for example, could be a platform for dialogue in the same way that National Museums Northern Ireland, through its Troubles and Beyond exhibition, has commanded respect from all sides of the community. That respect has been won not by rewriting history or sanitising our past but by telling the truth and being honest about our past.

Many listening will think that Sinn Féin has an absolute brass neck with the comments that its members have made. They talk about the need to tell the truth of the past; the need to be honest about the past and the hurt that has been inflicted on communities. It is beyond parody to hear words such as those from the Members opposite. I hope that they take time to reflect on some of the hurt that has been caused across Northern Ireland by those whom they have associated themselves with in the past.

Let us protect our museums in Northern Ireland as places of learning, not propaganda. Let us celebrate our shared heritage, not dismantle it. Let us preserve the mutual respect for National Museums NI. Let us ensure that decolonisation does not simply become code for an anti-British movement, dressed up as a virtue that seeks to divide rather than to unite. We in Northern Ireland deserve better.

That is why the amendment in the name of Mr Beattie goes some way to preventing some of the harm that might otherwise be caused by the motion and those who are behind it. I will happily accept the motion, but I will not support it unamended.

John Blair (Alliance, South Antrim)

I call Robbie Butler to make a winding-up speech on the amendment. You have up to five minutes.

Robbie Butler (UUP, Lagan Valley)

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.

I urge all Members who have listened to the debate to support the amendment. I do so whilst firmly acknowledging one area where there should be no ambiguity, and that is the repatriation or return of human remains. Let us be clear: holding human remains, especially those taken without consent, in a museum or in a damp bog, is indefensible. Where communities and families request their return and the provenance and justice is clear, that return must be a matter of principle. It is a matter of dignity, respect and basic human decency, and, in such cases, there is no grey area.

When we examined the motion, we found a need to amend it. There are some merits, but it goes much too far. It encourages a sweeping approach to decolonisation without drawing lines between sacred and personal artefacts and those of broader cultural significance.

It treats all such items as if they should be removed or returned without considering evidence, context or legality. That is not justice; it is reductionism.

Museums are not monuments to empire. Anyone who thinks so needs to visit a museum. They are dynamic institutions that are committed to education, inclusion and public access. Many already engage in difficult discussions. That has been the case in the Chamber. I commend all Members for that today. Museums have difficult conversations about history and empire, and they do so while operating under enormous financial constraints. Their duty is to preserve and interpret history for all, not to rewrite it on the basis of ideological pressure but to present it warts and all — hurt and success.

The amendment draws the necessary line. It rightly supports the return of human remains and sacred items in evidence-based cases, but it also warns against the danger of campaigns rooted in blame and revisionism, rather than reconciliation and understanding. Let us empower our museums to act ethically and responsibly, not reactively. Let us support the professionals who work to educate, conserve and connect us with the past, warts and all.

I urge all Members to support our amendment. We believe that it is balanced and right and champions dignity where it is due and wisdom where it is needed.

John Blair (Alliance, South Antrim)

I call Sinéad Ennis to conclude the debate and make the winding-up speech on the motion. You have up to 10 minutes.

Sinéad Ennis (Sinn Féin, South Down)

I welcome the debate on the motion. Despite some attempts to detract and distract from the actual intent of the motion, the debate has been interesting.

I want to pick up on one thing. It was interesting to hear the Minister say that some of the organisations have tenuous claims to ownership of their own artefacts. I find that, frankly, bizarre, when most of those artefacts were looted, taken under duress and taken without consent. That shows a breathtaking lack of awareness on the Minister's part.

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

Will the Member give way?

Sinéad Ennis (Sinn Féin, South Down)

No, I will make some progress on my speech, if you do not mind.

There can be no question of the devastating impact of colonialism around the world. In many ways, the cultural, social and political impact is still being felt by communities today. Exploitation, theft and the infliction of human suffering were the stock-in-trade of European and Western colonial powers down through the centuries. Acknowledging the many wrongs that have been committed by empire and promoting the understanding of the exploitative nature of colonialism is something that we should all support.

Addressing the issue of stolen artefacts that have found their way into museums on this island is part of that. In that regard, I commend the work of National Museums NI for its efforts to decolonise its collection through its ethics policy. I look forward to seeing that work continue and grow.

Jonathan Buckley (DUP, Upper Bann)

Will the Member give way?

Sinéad Ennis (Sinn Féin, South Down)

I will make some progress, thank you.

The recent return of human remains and other objects to Hawaii is a perfect example of how collections can be decolonised and why it is so important. Those artefacts, in many cases, hold profound historical, cultural and spiritual significance to people in their country of origin. They are often sacred objects with immense value. They are not curiosities to momentarily amuse visitors. The efforts of some museums to decolonise collections should be noted by others who should also be doing their bit to support that work. In particular, the British Government should reflect on their attitude to looted artefacts. They could start by reversing their decision to exclude National Museums and Galleries from certain sections of the Charities Act 2022 and allowing for the facilitation of the repatriation of looted artefacts, on request, to their countries of origin. I urge the Communities Minister to engage with the Advisory Committee on the Restitution and Repatriation of Cultural Heritage in the South with a view to establishing best practice for the repatriation of artefacts.

Some comments today have, unfortunately, been indicative of the prevailing Western attitude that Western museums are the best place for the artefacts to be kept. My party argues that the best place for the Benin Bronzes, for example, is Benin and that the best place for Egyptian mummies is, in fact, Egypt. My colleague Emma Sheerin made a good point: repatriation does not mean erasure. We have the internet, international loans and cultural exchanges. That means that artefacts do not need to be locked in Paris or London for people to appreciate them. Excuses that are often given for not returning artefacts, such as claims that they will not be looked after properly in their own country, are echoes of a lingering colonial mindset.

The issue of artefacts taken from Ireland by the British Empire should also be addressed. Right now, museums and libraries in Britain hold thousands of objects of Irish origin, including everything from priceless artefacts such as ogham stones and the Mount Keefe chalice to ancient documents and manuscripts that tell the story of our island. Only a handful of requests for their return has been acknowledged. It was only two years ago that the Hunterian Museum removed the remains of Charles O'Brien from display, a fate that, the so-called Irish giant specifically stated on his deathbed, he did not want. Having removed the display, the museum still intends to keep his remains in storage.

It may not always be possible or appropriate to return certain artefacts, but every effort should be made to engage meaningfully with countries, communities and organisations that make a request. If nothing else, it shows a generosity of spirit to, at least, listen to people and communities that have been impacted by the theft of what are significant cultural — even, at times, spiritual — artefacts. That is why we will oppose the Ulster Unionist Party amendment, which would remove the important reference to:

"cooperating with requests for the repatriation of art and artefacts"

from the indigenous communities or societies impacted by the theft of their cultural heritage.

The legacy of colonialism can still be felt today. Returning the artefacts are not just symbolic acts; they are restorative ones. They challenge the idea that colonial institutions are the rightful keepers of other people's heritage. They remind us that reconciliation is not only about the past but about present justice and future relationships. If anything, the debate has shown that the ultimate goal is to decolonise minds, but we can, at least, start by decolonising museums.

Question put, That the amendment be made.

The Assembly divided:

Ayes 27; Noes 38

AYES

Dr Aiken, Mr Allen, Mr Beattie, Mr Bradley, Mr Brett, Ms Brownlee, Mr K Buchanan, Mr Buckley, Ms Bunting, Mr Butler, Mr Chambers, Mr Clarke, Mr Crawford, Mr Dunne, Mrs Erskine, Ms Forsythe, Mr Frew, Mr Gaston, Mr Harvey, Mr Kingston, Mr Lyons, Miss McIlveen, Mr Martin, Mr Middleton, Mr Nesbitt, Mr Robinson, Mr Stewart

Tellers for the Ayes: Mr Chambers, Mr Stewart

NOES

Dr Archibald, Mr Baker, Mr Boylan, Mr Carroll, Mr Delargy, Mr Dickson, Mrs Dillon, Miss Dolan, Mr Donnelly, Mr Durkan, Ms Egan, Ms Ennis, Ms Finnegan, Ms Flynn, Mrs Guy, Miss Hargey, Ms Hunter, Mr Kelly, Ms Kimmins, Mr McAleer, Miss McAllister, Mr McCrossan, Mr McGlone, Mr McGrath, Mr McGuigan, Mr McHugh, Mr McMurray, Mr McNulty, Mr Mathison, Mr Muir, Ms Mulholland, Ms Ní Chuilín, Mr O'Dowd, Mr O'Toole, Ms Reilly, Mr Sheehan, Ms Sheerin, Mr Tennyson

Tellers for the Noes: Mr Baker, Ms Sheerin

Question accordingly negatived.

Main Question put.

John Blair (Alliance, South Antrim)

I have been advised by party Whips that, in accordance with Standing Order 27(1A)(b), there is agreement that we can dispense with the three minutes and move straight to the Division.

The Assembly divided:

Ayes 38; Noes 27

AYES

Mr Baker, Mr Boylan, Mr Carroll, Mr Dickson, Mrs Dillon, Miss Dolan, Mr Donnelly, Mr Durkan, Ms Egan, Ms Ennis, Ms Ferguson, Ms Finnegan, Ms Flynn, Mrs Guy, Miss Hargey, Ms Hunter, Mr Kelly, Ms Kimmins, Mr McAleer, Miss McAllister, Mr McCrossan, Mr McGlone, Mr McGrath, Mr McGuigan, Mr McHugh, Mr McMurray, Mr McNulty, Mr McReynolds, Mr Mathison, Mr Muir, Ms Mulholland, Ms Ní Chuilín, Mr O'Dowd, Mr O'Toole, Ms Reilly, Mr Sheehan, Ms Sheerin, Mr Tennyson

Tellers for the Ayes: Mr Baker, Ms Sheerin

NOES

Dr Aiken, Mr Allen, Mr Beattie, Mr Bradley, Mr Brett, Ms Brownlee, Mr K Buchanan, Mr Buckley, Ms Bunting, Mr Butler, Mr Chambers, Mr Clarke, Mr Crawford, Mr Dunne, Mrs Erskine, Ms Forsythe, Mr Frew, Mr Gaston, Mr Harvey, Mr Kingston, Mr Lyons, Miss McIlveen, Mr Martin, Mr Middleton, Mr Nesbitt, Mr Robinson, Mr Stewart

Tellers for the Noes: Mr Butler, Mr Kingston

Main Question accordingly agreed to.

Resolved:

That this Assembly notes National Museums NI’s (NMNI) commitment in its ethics policy to proactively seek to democratise and decolonise its collections through ethical collections development, research, partnerships and engagement; further notes the Inclusive Global Histories exhibition launched by Ulster Museum in 2022, which aims to demonstrate NMNI's commitment to decolonisation, diversity and inclusion; commends the continued repatriation efforts of NMNI regarding the return of human remains and other sacred objects to the people of Hawaii; acknowledges the immense cultural, social and historical significance that the return of artefacts represents to societies and indigenous communities impacted by colonialism around the world, including on this island; encourages museums to further develop and expand decolonisation policies, such as cooperating with requests for the repatriation of art and artefacts; and calls on the Minister for Communities to support museums here in their efforts to decolonise their collections.

John Blair (Alliance, South Antrim)

Members, please take your ease before we move to the next item in the Order Paper.

(Mr Deputy Speaker [Dr Aiken] in the Chair)

Jonathan Buckley (DUP, Upper Bann)

I beg to move

That this Assembly notes the Prime Minister’s plans to reduce legal migration to the UK; regrets the Government’s continuing failure to meaningfully address illegal immigration, including through measures that apply equally across the UK; expresses alarm that the estimated cost of accommodation for asylum seekers in Northern Ireland has risen to £400 million, four times the original estimate, as detailed in the National Audit Office (NAO) briefing on the Home Office’s asylum accommodation contracts; is concerned that, increasingly, this is placing unsustainable pressures on basic services, including access to GPs, dentists and the provision of school places; further notes the link between illegal immigration, increased demand for housing and the proliferation of houses in multiple occupation (HMOs) in many areas of Northern Ireland; and calls on the Minister for Infrastructure to urgently review, and amend, the strategic planning policy statement to place additional restrictions on the approval of HMOs by local councils.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

The Business Committee has agreed to allow up to one hour and 30 minutes for the debate. The proposer of the motion will have 10 minutes in which to propose and 10 minutes in which to make a winding-up speech. As an amendment has been selected and is published on the Marshalled List, the Business Committee has agreed that 15 minutes will be added to the total time for the debate.

Jonathan Buckley (DUP, Upper Bann)

Today, we debate an issue of our time: uncontrolled and illegal immigration. I moved the motion not just as a DUP representative but as a voice for the many people across our country who feel forgotten, overwhelmed and unheard. The statistics are stark, with close on one million people a year entering the UK. That does not even take into account the number who arrive illegally and un-vetted. I speak for the mother in Newtownards who rang her GP surgery over 100 times, hoping that her sick child could be seen, only to be told that the surgery is at capacity. I speak for the pensioner in Portadown who has been waiting on the housing list for three years and has watched as emergency accommodation has sprung up overnight just down the road. I speak for the teacher in north Belfast who tells me that she is teaching children in classes of 30 or more, trying to offer every child the attention that they deserve but feeling deflated by a system that is stretched well beyond its limits. I speak for the foreign national who came to these shores many years ago, worked hard, paid taxes and respected our culture and way of life, only to watch on in horror as hordes of young men descend on Britain's shores in rubber boats and into the open arms of a state benefit system that is paid for on the back of those people's hard work.

A Member

Will the Member give way?

Jonathan Buckley (DUP, Upper Bann)

I will towards the end.

That is what is at stake. Those are the people whom we represent, and the motion is about standing up for them. The motion is not borne out of ideology or sensationalism; it is firmly rooted in practical realities that our communities face every day. It is about protecting our public services, preserving community cohesion and ensuring that our infrastructure is not stretched far beyond its limits. Whilst many of us doubt his sincerity, the Prime Minister said:

"we risk becoming an island of strangers".

He may not believe his words, but I can assure the House that Members on these Benches certainly do. The motion is about a growing and deeply concerning failure to address illegal and uncontrolled immigration and its direct impact on the people of Northern Ireland.

A Member

Will the Member give way?

Jonathan Buckley (DUP, Upper Bann)

I will, if I have time.

First, we must note the context. The Prime Minister laid out plans to reduce legal immigration, yet, day by day, we still see and grapple with the realities that illegal immigration, enabled by consecutive weak Governments, continues to wreak on our communities. Conservative and, indeed, Labour Governments have failed to introduce a UK-wide enforcement strategy that is robust and fair. Day in, day out, our constituents — your constituents — see the consequences of those policy failures in our housing, our health service and our schools.

A nation without borders is not a nation at all. Borders should never be chalk lines that fade with political lunacy; rather, they should be a source of security and certainty for a nation's citizens. To the unionist who feels let down by consecutive UK Governments: I hear you. To the nationalist or republican who feels that they are not being listened to by the parties for which they voted: I hear you. You have been failed by nationalist and republican politicians, of whom we must ask the question of where their loyalty lies if it is not with the working-class communities across this country, which feel the disproportionate burden of failed immigration policy. We can see just how out of touch parties such as Sinn Féin are. It is telling that we see such a small number of its members come to the Chamber to debate immigration, yet they filled it to talk about returning artefacts to museums. How embarrassing. Sinn Féin's policy of "Brits out, and everyone else in" is fooling absolutely nobody.

Let us talk about the costs. According to the National Audit Office, the estimated cost of accommodating illegal immigrants in Northern Ireland has soared to £400 million, which is four times the original estimate. That is fiscal irresponsibility of epic proportions. Every pound that is overspent is a pound that does not go to our overstretched health trusts, GPs, services, crumbling infrastructure and underfunded schools. Members, that is not sustainable. The figure is no different across the UK in its entirety. The current figures estimate that the total spend by the Home Office over the past 10 years in the UK has been £15·3 billion of public money.

Let us speak plainly about the pressures on public services. Across Northern Ireland, GP practices are overwhelmed; access to dental services is non-existent; parents struggle to find school places for their children; and small businesses are taxed to death to pay for a hopeless, regrettable, failed open border policy. We must ask ourselves this: why must we be expected to bear a burden that we were neither prepared for nor consulted on? Are parties such as Alliance, the SDLP and Sinn Féin really going to continue to bury their heads in the sand and pretend that it is not a problem? It is intellectually dishonest to pretend that those pressures have no link to a broken immigration system. When accommodation is oversubscribed and new arrivals are settled in communities without proper consultation, planning or resources, it creates strain. Those who are most affected are often the working-class communities, which have been forgotten by certain decision makers.

As we all know, housing is at breaking point. There is now a dangerous and growing link between illegal immigration and the increased demand for temporary and overcrowded housing. We see a proliferation of houses in multiple occupation (HMOs) across towns and cities in Northern Ireland. Those properties, which are often poorly regulated and insufficiently inspected, are rapidly altering the character of our communities, and the situation will only get worse. Beneath Keir Starmer's plan to stop the migrant hotels is a plan to incentivise certain landlords with five-year guaranteed rental deals at an increased rate from that of our own civilian population. That is what is happening, and if Members were to take a moment to consult with their communities, they would see that. You could not make it up.

In just one street in my home town of Portadown, there are 24 HMOs. Just think about their impact on local residents and local communities. Councils —

A Member

Will the Member give way?

Jonathan Buckley (DUP, Upper Bann)

— with limited powers — not at this stage — and outdated strategic planning policies simply do not reflect the scale of the problem that they represent. That is why the motion calls for the Infrastructure Minister to urgently review and amend that policy. Local authorities need to be equipped with planning policies that enable them to best meet the demands of their community. When illegal immigration is allowed to flourish and go unchallenged, it becomes harder, not easier, to make the case for those who truly need help.

To those who oppose the motion, I ask this: what is your alternative? Are you going to continue to ignore the warning signs? Are you going to continue to let communities become unrecognisable? Should we continue to let public services collapse under the demand and expect taxpayers to foot the bill of spiralling costs beyond all expectations? This is not about scapegoating. It is about sensible, sustainable government, and it is time that we restored balance and gave our communities the representation that they truly need and are calling for.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

Thank you very much indeed, Mr Buckley. Ladies and gentlemen, the Business Committee has arranged to meet at 1.00 pm. I propose, therefore, by leave of the Assembly, to suspend the sitting until 2.00 pm.

The debate stood suspended.

The sitting was suspended at 12.57 pm.

On resuming —

Oral Answers to Questions — Health

Cheryl Brownlee (DUP, East Antrim)

1. Ms Brownlee asked the Minister of Health whether autism training being rolled out to child and adolescent mental health services (CAMHS) staff will include how to adapt mental health interventions, such as cognitive behavioural therapy (CBT), for people with autism. (AQO 2019/22-27)

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for the question. I am happy to advise that my Department has engaged with Middletown Centre for Autism in order to develop autism and neurodiversity awareness training. It will be available on the Health and Social Care (HSC) learning platform in the coming weeks. Not only has that training been co-produced with service users, parents and carers with lived experience but over 30% of the content is delivered by them, so users should expect a really authentic feel.

The training covers the following three topics. The first is autistic differences, which provides an insight into how autistic people experience the world, giving staff an opportunity to reflect on how an autistic person might experience the service and environment of Health and Social Care. The second is providing supportive environments, which gives an insight into how the environment can impact on a neurodivergent service user. An analysis of the difficulties experienced by the neurodivergent individual across a series of likely environments and interfaces is reported. Supports and materials to provide and create more supportive spaces are included. The third topic is promoting a neuro-affirmative culture, helping staff to understand how to integrate neuro-affirming practices into their work environment from the language used to the culture in the workplace, both for the service users and the team members.

That training is key to ensuring that appropriate adjustments are made for each autistic person and that our mental health service, which includes cognitive behavioural therapy and other therapies, is person-centred, adapting treatment and care at every point throughout a person's journey. It is important that the health service is equally accessible to all; therefore, the autism and neurodiversity awareness training will be available for all Health and Social Care staff, not just mental health staff.

Cheryl Brownlee (DUP, East Antrim)

I thank the Minister for his answer. It is a certainly a huge step forward in improving the service for autistic individuals. I welcome the training, but will it be extended through to adult mental health services as well? Will it be mandatory?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

My understanding is that it will be available to all those working in Health and Social Care and not just to mental health practitioners. Sorry, what was the second part of the question?

Cheryl Brownlee (DUP, East Antrim)

Will it be mandatory?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I am not sure whether it will be mandatory. I will have to check that and get back to the Member.

Philip McGuigan (Sinn Féin, North Antrim)

I will follow on from the Minister's answer and the supplementary question. Over and above the specific training, does the Minister believe that a different and bespoke approach to mental health interventions for autistic children and young people, as well as adults, is required?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

If the Member is enquiring whether there should be a separate, bespoke training regime and system in place for dealing with autism, my officials say that that is not necessary and that interventions can be done within the mental health services but in a bespoke way that is directed towards a person-centred pathway of care.

Colin McGrath (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

The Minister will be aware that, generically, there is difficulty in accessing CAMHS for young people and that there is a bit of a regional imbalance. Is the Department undertaking any work to address that?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

Yes, it is. The Member will be aware of the fact that, since I was first elected in around 2011, I have campaigned on the broad theme of mental health. I came to that from being a victims' commissioner, because it was obvious that our excessive rates of poor mental health — let me put it that way — are a direct result of the legacy of the conflict. It is one thing to say, "Here is a service such as CAMHS", but, if you cannot access it in a timely manner, it is almost cruel, because you know that it is there. It is the same with how some strategies are gold-plated and the best that we can think of, but we then do not have the money to fund the action points year-on-year. Again, it is Tantalus-like, saying, "Here is what you should have had". Yes, I am particularly keen to address those waiting lists and the capacity in mental health, including CAMHS.

Harry Harvey (DUP, Strangford)

2. Mr Harvey asked the Minister of Health for an update on why the regional cytology laboratory for cervical cancer screening remains unequipped to operate HPV testing following the service being moved to the Belfast Health and Social Care Trust (BHSCT). (AQO 2020/22-27)

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

The new regional cervical screening laboratory in the Belfast Health and Social Care Trust has been operational since November 2024. The Belfast Trust was awarded the regional contract following an expression-of-interest process that considered submissions from trusts against a range of key criteria. The Belfast Trust scored highest in the process and was awarded the contract. While some of the human papillomavirus (HPV) testing equipment is physically located in the virology department in the Belfast Trust and not in the cytology laboratory, it is on the same site, and all testing is being undertaken by the cervical screening laboratory team. The arrangement of a piece of equipment being located in a different location within one site is not uncommon and is recognised as acceptable practice in national guidance. The equipment located in the virology laboratory is in a room used only for cervical screening.

With the implementation of primary HPV testing in December 2023, it was necessary to consolidate the laboratories to a single site to ensure that performance standards and minimum requirements of screeners and reporting staff are met and that public confidence in the screening programme is maintained. That is due to the marked decrease in demand for cytology testing and is in line with other UK regions. Even operating as a single-site model, the anticipated volume of screening samples will see the Belfast Trust laboratory as the smallest in the United Kingdom. I assure Members that the regional laboratory is fully operational and, between 3 November 2024 and 4 May 2025, the regional laboratory processed and reported approximately 43,000 HPV tests for the Northern Ireland cervical screening programme.

Harry Harvey (DUP, Strangford)

Thank you for your answer, Minister. How does the Department intend to ensure that patients are informed in a timely manner of the results of the testing?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for that follow-up question. There have been some issues around the timeliness of reporting; I accept that that is indeed the case. Last week, though, I was pleased to hear that work is being done to address that. We look at a range of weeks in blocks in terms of how long it takes to report to people who have been tested with their results. The Public Health Agency (PHA) has informed the Department that waiting times are improving week on week. At 4 May, 90·2% were authorised within four weeks; 0·7% took four to six weeks; 2·3% took six to eight weeks; and 6·8% took over eight weeks.

Alan Chambers (UUP, North Down)

Does the Minister agree that it is vital that women should have confidence in the cervical screening programme in Northern Ireland?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for his question and understand that it is rooted in previous serious issues. Yes, I encourage women to take up the offer of cervical screening when invited to do so. Over 99% of cervical cancers are caused by HPV. Primary HPV testing is an automated test that identifies the presence of HPV. It is recommended by the UK National Screening Committee because it is a more accurate test and will save more lives than cervical cytology. The Public Health Agency continues to monitor awareness, confidence and barriers to participation in cervical screening and will continue to use that information to inform future activities. Coverage data, used as a measure of participation in the programme, is now available for the financial year 2023-24. It shows an increase in age-appropriate coverage across all trusts compared with 2022-23.

Gerry Carroll (People Before Profit Alliance, Belfast West)

Minister, given the concerns raised about the lack of full services being provided and staff concerns about conditions, I urge you to move at speed to address both of those issues. How confident are you that there will not be a cervical scandal similar to that in the South, with those issues being raised?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for his commentary. The question was how confident I am: I would like to think that I am very confident, because I think that, when you have had issues on the scale of those experienced by patients and service users in the Southern Trust, everybody involved in the screening, whether in cytology or for HPV, which is now the primary testing route, will be absolutely on their best game at all times. It would be a complete shock to me, if we were to return to the sort of situation that we had with the Southern Trust.

Danny Donnelly (Alliance, East Antrim)

Does the Minister recognise the risk that the delay in HPV testing capacity poses to the timely detection of cervical cancer, particularly for women in more deprived areas, where screening uptake is already low?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for his question, which is in two parts. Yes, being timely is of the essence. It is all very well having the buildings, the equipment, the staff and the protocols, but, if testing is not actioned in a timely manner, the risk, obviously and self-evidently, is that we miss problems or allow problems to deteriorate to the point at which they could even be life-threatening.

On the Member's point about people who live in areas of deprivation, he will be aware that tackling health inequalities is one of my primary focuses. Over the next two years, I hope to do enough to encourage the next Minister of Health to continue on that journey of tackling health inequalities. That would mean that we will have had seven years of focus, and, after that, you should really see improvements. The big measure for me, as I always say, is healthy life expectancy.

Linda Dillon (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Minister, I am sure that everybody thought that everybody was on their game and doing their very best when we had the cervical smear scandal in the Southern Trust. What we really need is some reassurance on the accountability mechanisms.

I think that you will agree that the most important element of tackling health inequalities is education. Women need to understand the importance of the cervical smear, and they need to understand that that does not detect ovarian cancer or womb cancer. We need to understand as women exactly what cervical smear testing will detect and what it will not so that we are not afraid to go forward when there are other symptoms.

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for that. She will be aware that I have officials working on a women's health action plan, and education will be a core part of that. Looking ahead, I would prefer to have a women's health strategy, but, in the meantime, the important thing to do is to get an action plan that enables us to take definite actions on certain conditions that are particular, perhaps, to women. I could not agree with the Member more on the idea that education is absolutely core.

Justin McNulty (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

The Minister will know how long and how hard people campaigned for cervical cancer screening. After the smear scandal in the Southern Trust, will he outline what measures are being adopted to ensure accurate, consistent and timely screening? Is outsourcing a part of that?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for the question. I am not aware that outsourcing is something that we want to do. I think that we had to do it as a short-term measure when we consolidated on the Belfast Trust site.

I want to reassure people that every effort is being made to review what happened in the Southern Trust. We have had a number of reports, and there are two more to come. At that point, I will make a final decision, but the following questions need to be answered. What happened? Why did it happen, including who was responsible for it happening? What steps have been taken to ensure that it will never happen again, or, if it is not possible to give that absolute guarantee, what steps have been taken to try to ensure that it is very, very unlikely to happen again? That process is ongoing, but I expect the final two reports to be published in the coming weeks. We will then approach the end point of our review of what went wrong.

Robbie Butler (UUP, Lagan Valley)

3. Mr Butler asked the Minister of Health for an update on the total number of annually commissioned training places across the Health and Social Care service for 2025-26. (AQO 2021/22-27)

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

Last week, I was very pleased to announce a significant package of investment in Northern Ireland’s Health and Social Care workforce. The measures that I have announced will bring annual investment in the commissioning of workforce training places to £160 million. This year, my Department will commission 1,065 nursing and midwifery places, a record 505 allied health professionals (AHPs) and 330 social work preregistration training places.

I have also approved 24 new medical specialty training posts, which are made up of 13 posts in internal medicine, five in core psychiatry and six in other specialties.

The investment will also provide for the delivery of 378 places on the Northern Ireland medical foundation programme. A place will be provided for every graduate from Queen's University Belfast's school of medicine and for the first cohort of graduates from Ulster University's graduate entry medicine (GEM) programme. Collectively, the total number of medical training posts across all the programmes that my Department has commissioned from the Northern Ireland Medical and Dental Training Agency (NIMDTA) now stands at 2,219. Our health and social care workforce is our greatest asset, and, without its skill and dedication, there is no service. The investment that I have announced forms a key part of my Department's ambitious three-year plan to stabilise, reform and deliver more sustainable and effective healthcare for everybody. It means that we remain on the path towards securing the workforce across Health and Social Care to help us meet rising demand for care and also support the transformation of services, particularly in primary and community care.

Robbie Butler (UUP, Lagan Valley)

I commend the Minister for what many people rightly consider to be some of the most significant increases in training places in many years. Is he able to give us an indication of just how significant those increases will be, in particular across the AHP programmes?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for that. The AHP cohort forms the second-largest block in healthcare after nursing, and it is really important. As I said, a record 505 allied health professional preregistration training places are to be commissioned by my Department in this financial year. The breakdown, in which the Member may be interested, is as follows. There will be 110 training places in physiotherapy, which represents a 37% increase over the past two years. There will be 25 places in radiotherapy — sometimes referred to as "therapeutic radiography" — and oncology, which is a 56% increase compared with last year. Ninety-four places will be available in diagnostic radiography, which is a 38% increase over the past two years. Ninety-three places will be available in occupational therapy, which is a 69% increase on last year's commissioned places. There will be 65 places for paramedics, which is a 30% increase on last year. Fifty-six places will be available for speech and language therapy, which is a 100% increase on last year's training numbers. There will be 35 places in dietetics, which is up 66% on last year. There will be 27 places in podiatry, which is a 35% increase on last year.

The numbers represent an overall increase of 100 places on training courses commissioned in 2024-25. Those roles are critical to delivering care and enabling service transformation in hospital, community and home settings and will help free up more experienced staff to take on advance practice and leadership roles.

Stewart Dickson (Alliance, East Antrim)

Minister, are you able to confirm whether your Department has conducted a regional skills-gap analysis across the trusts to ensure that those commissioned training places align with actual demand?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for his question. I am not going to be definitive in my answer. He was very specific about the review that he has in mind, so I will take that away. Broadly, however, we look at the gaps on a trust-by-trust basis and even on a hospital-by-hospital basis. I hope that the Member is aware that, although we have five geographically defined trusts, it is my intention and my drive that everything that we do in those trusts be delivered on a standardised, regional basis. We have to look at the workforce and at how it is distributed in order to make sure that it is best placed to deliver on that basis. I will get back to the Member on his specific request.

Daniel McCrossan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, West Tyrone)

Minister, given that there are questions about whether the numbers of training places meet the level of demand for services, can you provide an update on when the safe staffing legislative process will commence?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for his question. We have been looking at the legislative programme that we can introduce in the remaining two years of the mandate. I can assure the Member that it is my desire that the safe staffing legislation come forward before the end of the mandate. I cannot commit to an exact month yet, but it is one of the top three pieces of legislation that I desire to bring to the House.

Ciara Ferguson (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

You have generally answered the point that I was going to make. I welcome the extra posts, but will you ensure that they are fairly allocated across our hospital sites, particularly the medical posts? I have found that a lot of the training posts are Belfast-centric, and when young ones go to train in Belfast, they set up home there and do not necessarily come back to the north-west. If there is a fair allocation of those posts across the hospital sites from the start, we can ensure that we retain and build upon the skills and the teams that we have in the north-west, particularly at Altnagelvin hospital.

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I assure the Member that I am acutely aware of the need for regional balance and that not a week goes by that I do not look at waiting lists and issues and say, "Why is best practice in one trust not being replicated and put into common practice in all five trusts?". I put in the proviso that the Belfast Trust offers a lot of regional services, so there will be a weighted bias towards people who work in the Belfast Trust, because they are delivering for the whole of Northern Ireland. The issue that she mentioned is really important. It is not just about making sure that we have the right distribution. If people come to Belfast to train, there is a possibility that they will say, "I kinda like it here, so I'm going to stay". I assure the Member that that is on my radar.

Alan Chambers (UUP, North Down)

4. Mr Chambers asked the Minister of Health for an update on his Department’s financial position. (AQO 2022/22-27)

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

My Department is facing an extremely challenging financial position in this financial year. Members will recall that, compared with the level of need that is being driven by increased demand, health inflation, pay and trust deficits, among many other factors, my Department was facing a £400 million shortfall this year. That position has changed but, regrettably, not for the better. The additional pressures that the final Budget has added by ring-fencing £165 million of the Department's existing budget for waiting lists and the difference in the allocation for the rise in National Insurance contributions compared with the original planning assumptions mean that the latest assessment of the funding gap is that it is now over £500 million. In that context, we are looking at having to make deeply unpalatable decisions about fundamental inescapable cost increases, such as pay and price inflation, as well as the additional costs that are associated with changes to National Insurance contributions and the national living wage.

We await the pay recommendations from London for doctors, dentists and allied health professionals. That announcement is imminent. As I have said before, all things being equal, I wish to enact those recommendations at speed. However, I need to make you aware that, while I will continue to do all that I can to build on the unprecedented £200 million of savings that were delivered by HSC last year, the Budget leaves me in a position where I am genuinely struggling to see a way forward. While I very much welcome the rather belated Executive focus on waiting lists and the clear direction that that is where Executive colleagues want me to focus, it is clear that, unless the Executive take some shared responsibility, that could, counter-intuitively, be at the expense of that funding by using it to prevent funding cuts across other services.

Alan Chambers (UUP, North Down)

I thank the Minister for that rather sobering update. Perhaps, it will be a bit of a reality check for some in the House. Given the speculation that the pay review recommendations for this year are likely to be published any moment now, I welcome the Minister's commitment to moving swiftly, within reason, to ensure that our health workers are not left waiting for clarity on their pay while colleagues in equivalent roles across the rest of the UK see increases appearing in their pay packets.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

Was there a question in there, Mr Chambers?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I welcome the Member's statement.

[Laughter.]

On the pay pressures, when working out our budget, we had to make an assumption that there would be a 2·8% pay rise. As I said, the two sets of recommendations — for allied health professionals on the one hand and doctors and dentists on the other — have been received by the Department of Health and Social Care, so we await the publication of those figures and the response of the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, Wes Streeting. I am no longer confident that we have budgeted a large enough percentage to meet the figures that we expect to be published.

Peter Martin (DUP, North Down)

Minister, you will, no doubt, agree that treating illnesses early is better for patient outcomes and the cost implications for the health service. In light of that, will you commit to assessing the cost to the health service of undiagnosed coeliac disease and the resulting health complications, with a view to speeding up diagnosis of the illness?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for his question. I will take it to officials. I am aware of coeliac disease but only at a superficial or headline level. I commit to checking what service the Department and the health trusts provide in that regard, and whether there is a consistent service across the five trusts, and get back to the Member.

Nuala McAllister (Alliance, Belfast North)

Minister, almost a year ago, you stood and said an almost identical thing, with perhaps a little difference in the figures, about having to make cuts that would have a detrimental impact. None of the cuts that were outlined by you and your staff at the Health Committee happened. Why did those cuts not happen? Will it be the same again this year? Is it just fear-mongering, or are you trying to find efficiencies and waste in the five trusts across Northern Ireland, perhaps on administration costs?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

The Member alludes to a slight variation; £400 million to £500 million is not, in my estimation, a slight variation. It is not a slight variation in the view of the trusts, the Department of Health or, I imagine, the Department of Finance. Those are not slight variations; they are major variations. The trusts made an unprecedented £200 million of savings last year. The Member seems to dispute that. If she cares to write to me with the details, I will certainly look into it.

Connie Egan (Alliance, North Down)

5. Ms Egan asked the Minister of Health for his assessment of the availability of social workers in North Down. (AQO 2023/22-27)

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

The South Eastern Trust reports that, as of 12 May 2025, 929 social workers were employed across adult and children’s social work services, which equates to 861 whole-time equivalents. On 31 March 2023, there were 784 whole-time equivalent social workers in the South Eastern Trust. On 31 March 2024, there were 807. I am pleased to report, therefore, that, between 2023 and 2025, the number of social workers has increased by 77. The trust has 53 social work vacancies at band 6 and 11 at band 7. An additional 95 staff are absent from work due to sickness. The trust informed us that it is actively managing sickness levels and providing staff with support to enable them to return to work. Vacancy and absence rates can impact on the availability of social workers, leading to the use of waiting lists or unallocated cases to manage referrals.

The trust has implemented a review and monitoring process to ensure the safe management of cases that await allocation in children’s services. The South Eastern Trust participates in a number of Department-led initiatives that are aimed at stabilising the HSC social work workforce, including the fast recruitment of newly qualified workers. It is envisaged that the majority of the 53 vacant band 6 posts in the trust will be offered to newly qualified social workers between June and September 2025. In fact, in the coming months, approximately 240 vacant posts will be offered to newly qualified social workers across all five trusts. The South Eastern Trust has advised that it is prioritising attraction and retention initiatives for social workers and developing the use of a bank of social work staff to fill temporary vacancies.

Despite those efforts, there continues to be an inadequate supply of social workers to meet service demands regionally. My Department reviews regularly and seeks to increase the number of commissioned training places to meet the demand.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

Ms Egan, you have 30 seconds.

Connie Egan (Alliance, North Down)

Thank you. I thank the Minister for his answer. I understand that the social care workforce review in 2022 indicated that 60 more university training places for social workers will be required every year, but, last year, there were 20 more. How many places will there be in the upcoming year? Will there be enough to meet the demand?

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

Minister, you have 15 seconds.

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I do not have the exact number to hand. We have made great strides in recruitment and getting away from using agency staff, so we are much more efficient. However, I am afraid that I will have to write to the Member with the exact number that she seeks.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

Thank you, Minister, for keeping to time. That ends the period for listed questions. We move to 15 minutes of topical questions.

Colin McGrath (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

T1. Mr McGrath asked the Minister of Health whether, in view of his recent visit to the Downe Hospital when he met the dedicated and hard-working staff and hailed it as becoming one of his "favourite healthcare settings", he agreed that the Downe Hospital could offer much more, making an all-important contribution to the healthcare transformation that we need to see. (AQT 1331/22-27)

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for his question. I have been to the Downe Hospital, I think, two or three times, and what I really like about it — if I may use the expression — is the vibe. There is really good feel on walking into that hospital, and that is created by the wonderful staff who work there.

I have visited many of the services. A great range of services is already offered in the Downe, including urgent care and minor injuries, which are both Phone First, and that, I think, is working well for them. I visited the facilities for older people: I declare an interest in that. Hospital at Home is a vision of the future, where you get all the services that you can access in a hospital such as the Downe delivered through your front door. Endoscopy is going well, and there are four dozen inpatient beds.

There is definitely immediate scope to do more in cataract operations. The Downe specialises in cataracts. On my most recent visit, we discussed that, and the staff made it clear that they had spare capacity and could increase their delivery. On the £215 million that we have announced and ring-fenced for waiting lists, I have encouraged the South Eastern Health and Social Care Trust to get in touch with the Department and say, "We are ready and able to go with more cataract operations".

Colin McGrath (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

I thank the Minister for his reply. Minister, you referenced it: do you agree that the current urgent care service could be upgraded and enhanced too? That would enable some treatments to be made a little closer to home and would ease the pressure of the overcrowding that takes place at the Ulster Hospital in Dundonald.

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member, but I do not agree with him on that. There is a reason for that. I visited the urgent care centre and spoke to the staff, including consultants. The questions were asked, "What more we could do?", "What more could you do?" and "What would you change if you had a magic wand?". There was a contentment about the service that is offered at the moment and a realisation that it works well. Rather than people going to the emergency department (ED) at the Ulster Hospital and being referred back to the Downe, which is the locality where they live, it is better that they go to the Downe, where they may be treated and sent home or become an inpatient, and are referred just once. Only the patients who need to go to the Ulster are going there. Therefore, it is working pretty well, but everything is always under review. The most important thing for me, when I visit, is for people to say to me, "Here is the obstacle to my delivering on a daily basis, and here is the fix".

Diana Armstrong (UUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

T2. Ms D Armstrong asked the Minister of Health whether he could provide any clarity or reassurance, given the reports in recent weeks that the Department of Health would not provide additional recurring funding for ambulance cover in the Western Trust area unless the removal of emergency general surgery at the South West Acute Hospital was made permanent. (AQT 1332/22-27)

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I am aware of the claims, and I find them disturbing. First of all, no decision has been made about a permanent move. That decision rests with the Western Trust, not with me. The trust will make a decision, and I do not know what decision it will make. It will come to me, and it will be up to me whether to endorse it.

I want to be clear: as Minister, I categorically state that it is not the case that any additional funding is dependent on the temporary change becoming permanent. Perhaps the rather unfortunate and mistaken reflection in trust minutes relates to the fact that any such request for funding would be non-recurrent, but that simply reflects the fact that the arrangements are temporary. That is completely different from no funding being made available.

Diana Armstrong (UUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I thank the Minister for his clear commitment, and I hope that it will provide some reassurance for the people who have been greatly distressed by the recent reports on the matter. Will the Minister give a commitment, in line with the recent Regulation and Quality Improvement Authority (RQIA) review of the pathways, that the trust now has better engagement with the Northern Ireland Ambulance Service?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member. I give that assurance. I am very aware of the sensitivities involved, particularly for people living in the catchment area of the South West Acute Hospital. I am more than happy to provide that reassurance.

On the point about ambulance capacity, it is my understanding that the Western Trust has daily engagement with the Northern Ireland Ambulance Service with a view to minimising the impact on capacity and including, where necessary, the best use of outside ambulance provision. I still firmly support the RQIA report's original recommendation for:

"a more sustainable and resilient ambulance ... model supporting emergency surgical services within the Trust".

Connie Egan (Alliance, North Down)

T3. Ms Egan asked the Minister of Health to provide an update on the details of the hospital reconfiguration framework. (AQT 1333/22-27)

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for her question. That was put out to public consultation. We have had a vigorous and very welcome set of public responses, which is still being analysed by my Department. We are therefore not in a position yet to give a more detailed vision of the network with regard to which hospitals will provide which services.

Connie Egan (Alliance, North Down)

Thank you, Minister. Is your Department effectively evaluating any transformation that has already successfully taken place in order to garner more public and political support?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I am not aware that we are, no.

Trevor Clarke (DUP, South Antrim)

T4. Mr Clarke asked the Minister of Health, given that, 24 hours on from his statement, he will have heard that, while many members of the public are generally pleased with his announcement on GP funding, GPs are not happy with it and that, yesterday, he mentioned that people are making 50 or 100 calls to GP surgeries and being told to ring back the next day, how the funding that he announced yesterday will address the situation for the people making those calls. (AQT 1334/22-27)

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for his question. We put a number of proposals on access to the General Practitioners Committee. For example, one was to make some appointments pre-bookable, so that, if you are caught in that speed dial-redial situation, you do not necessarily get to the point where, when you finally get through, you are told, "I am sorry, but all today's appointments are gone", and that is it: you go down that big snake and start again the next day. We believe that all those recommendations were very practical and achievable at no cost to GP services. We have asked GPs to implement our proposals anyway. Obviously, the committee has rejected them and the £9·5 million of additional funding. It will go back to its members, and we wait to see what the response will be.

Trevor Clarke (DUP, South Antrim)

I welcome that proposal from the Minister and the idea that has been put forward. I presume that, despite having rejected the proposal, GPs will receive the money. Does receipt of the money come with the precondition that they must follow the proposal? If not, what sanctions can you impose, as Minister, if GPs do not follow the ideas that you have laid out in relation to that funding?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

Obviously, it is a tense situation, and I do not want to make it any worse. What I will say about the £9·5 million that I have decided to implement and pay anyway is that some GP services genuinely struggle. We have seen contracts handed back over the past couple of years. I had a grave concern that, for example, indemnity was still a toxic issue. We provided a temporary solution for the last financial year but have now identified a permanent solution. That requires £5 million of additional money to be put in. Had we not done that, more surgeries might have handed back their contracts. They have had a hike in National Insurance contributions imposed on them by the UK Government. They were not expecting that — none of us were. I did not think that it was fair to ask them to take that hit, so the Department has taken it. Our estimate for that is £3·5 million. As I said yesterday, if it is higher, we will go higher. Again, had we not done that, we would be potentially looking at GP surgeries handing back their contracts. We are trying to do what we can to stabilise primary care.

Cheryl Brownlee (DUP, East Antrim)

T5. Ms Brownlee asked the Minister of Health to provide an update on the business case for the £1·4 million investment in the new mental health facility at Carrickfergus Health Centre. (AQT 1335/22-27)

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I cannot, but I can go and get it.

[Laughter.]

Cheryl Brownlee (DUP, East Antrim)

Thank you. I will go on to another question.

In the previous debate on diabetes and the utilisation of data, you detailed the Encompass system and how that could be used, albeit that it would be for primary care. How could that data be collected for use in secondary care? I ask because that is how those with type 2 diabetes will engage. How is all that data being collected through the Encompass system?

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

Ms Brownlee, if you are asking a supplementary question, it should be related to the first question that you asked. It is up the Minister whether he wishes to answer. Knowing the Minister to be the good sport that he is, I imagine that he will.

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

Are you allowed to say that a Deputy Speaker has just stitched you up?

[Laughter.]

I think that the Member, if I heard her correctly, was talking about Encompass being in primary care: Encompass is in secondary care.

Cheryl Brownlee (DUP, East Antrim)

I am sorry. Apologies.

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

It is in the hospitals, so, as long as it is in the hospitals, Encompass will trap the data.

Colin Crawford (UUP, North Antrim)

T6. Mr Crawford asked the Minister of Health, after thanking him for joining him and Mr Gaston on a recent visit to Turning Point NI in Ballymena, where, he hoped, he saw at first hand the tremendous work that the charity is delivering, whether he agrees that Turning Point NI is a fantastic example of community and voluntary sector partners for the work that his Department is committed to delivering. (AQT 1336/22-27)

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for the invite, which I was more than happy to accept. Like many of the other visits that I am so blessed to take part in, I really enjoyed meeting Turning Point NI, which is one of the many fantastic voluntary and community sector organisations doing inspiring, fantastic and wonderful work on the ground for people with mental health issues, some of whom are in crisis. It is an invaluable service and is felt as such by the local trust.

Turning Point receives no formal HSC funding, but it still takes referrals from GPs, community mental health teams, the community and voluntary sector and self-referrals. I am aware that the community mental health team in Ballymena also sees Turning Point NI as a useful and important partner in the Ballymena area, and I wish that we could do more financially to support it.

Colin Crawford (UUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Minister for his response and his kind words. Minister, do you accept that there is still a lot of potential to better utilise the community and voluntary sector in the delivery of some really important mental health services across Northern Ireland?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member. Of course, I fully agree, and I point him to action 17 of the mental health strategy. Action 17 commits the Department to:

"Fully integrate community and voluntary sector in mental health service delivery with a lifespan approach including the development of a protocol to make maximum use of the sector's expertise."

The more visits I undertake, the more impressed I am with the innovation and the clear motivation to help. There is an independent review under way of the scope, scale and capacity of the voluntary and community sector. I expect that one of its clear outcomes will be the creation of a protocol that will help ensure the most effective use of the sector's expertise and resources.

I will go back to the role that I had before elected politics as a commissioner for the victims and survivors of our conflict. I had the realisation that, on a day-to-day basis, so many people were suffering poor mental health and would receive their direct help from those in voluntary and community organisations, who were people whom they trusted. That was important to victims of the conflict — the Troubles — so, from that day forward, I have had a deep respect for and understanding of the work of those organisations.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

Mr McMurray, you have a minute.

Andrew McMurray (Alliance, South Down)

T7. Mr McMurray asked the Minister how many GP practices are on special measures of financial support or have formally indicated a risk of closure or contract hand-back. (AQT 1337/22-27)

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

Once again, a number are in the situation of considering contract hand-backs. Regrettably, there have been 16 hand-backs since the financial year 2023-24, with 11 in 2024-25. In 2024-25, one contract was removed. I hope that that answers the Member's question.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

There is time for a short supplementary question, Mr McMurray.

Andrew McMurray (Alliance, South Down)

Thank you very much. Minister, has the Department undertaken any financial or workforce modelling to assess or mitigate the impact of such potential changes?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

We have a crisis team that goes in to help any GP service that feels that it is under pressure. So, yes, we look at the underlying reasons and try to come up with workable solutions.

[Interruption.]

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

Ladies and gentlemen, silence. Minister, thank you. Following that interruption, the time is up. We will just take our ease while we change the top Table.

(Madam Principal Deputy Speaker in the Chair)

Private Members' Business

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Members, we will continue the debate on the motion on the decolonisation of museum collections —.

Some Members

No.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

No, sorry, we will not. We are not going back to that; we are moving forward.

[Laughter.]

It is the debate on addressing the impact of illegal immigration in Northern Ireland. The next Member to speak is Matthew O'Toole.

Matthew O'Toole (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

I beg to move the following amendment:

Leave out all after "legal migration to the UK;" and insert: "acknowledges that immigration can deliver many benefits, including contributing to economic growth and addressing skills shortages; regrets the continued divisive rhetoric around immigration in UK politics, including from the UK Government; agrees that insufficient investment places greater pressure on the delivery of key public services; recognises that immigration policy should focus on integration and addressing the drivers of displacement; expresses concern that Northern Ireland remains without a refugee integration strategy; and calls on the First Minister and deputy First Minister to publish a refugee integration strategy by September 2025."

May I double-check that I have 10 minutes to move the amendment?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Yes, you have.