Northern Ireland Assembly, 25 February 2025

245 contributions from 61 members. The official report.

Assembly Business

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

Members, before we start today, I return to the points that the leader of the Opposition raised with me yesterday in relation to ministerial statements. I want to record in the Chamber today an extract from a letter that I issued to Ministers one year ago this very week:

“it remains the case that major ministerial announcements should be made to the Assembly to enable Members to ask questions. In particular, on sitting days it is expected that Ministers make announcements to the House through statements first and not to the media.”

Mr O'Toole raised questions about the written ministerial statement made yesterday by the Minister of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs about avian flu. In relation to the point about an embargo on the written ministerial statement, I am less concerned about that in the context of Standing Order 18B, but it puts the focus on Members receiving information before it is made public or shared with the media, and an embargo operates in that context.

The point that concerns me more is that written ministerial statements are being made on a sitting day. To be clear, there is a useful purpose for written ministerial statements: in particular, they are for Ministers to be able to share information on key developments on non-sitting days before Members hear about them in the media. There may occasionally be exceptional circumstances to make a written ministerial statement on a sitting day, due to timing or because Ministers want to provide an update on a limited point of information. Despite that, the general expectation has always been that, on sitting days, Ministers should make their statements in the Chamber so that Members have the opportunity to raise questions.

I asked my office to review the number of written ministerial statements made by Ministers on sitting days over the past few months. It came back that there have been 10 over 22 weeks of Assembly sitting days. That is one for nearly every second sitting day of the Assembly. The two repeat offenders are the Minister of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs and the Minister of Finance, but all parties are guilty of it. It is not those Ministers exclusively, but they are the repeat offenders.

There may be an issue with Departments sometimes not giving the Assembly the priority that it should have when they are planning for announcements to be made. However, in the context of my remarks last week about Ministers answering questions, let me say that I am somewhat disappointed with the frequency with which I have to address issues to remind Ministers and their Departments of the role of the Assembly to scrutinise and hold Ministers to account.

This body puts them in their elevated office in the first instance. It is therefore incumbent on Ministers to show courtesy and respect to the Assembly.

I remind Members that, if a written ministerial statement is made on a sitting day, and Members think that it merits a Minister's taking questions in the House, they have the option of tabling a question for urgent oral answer for me to consider. Although I have to consider the individual circumstances in each case, if I have to select a few such questions for urgent oral answer to reinforce the point, I will be very happy to do so. I hope that that provides clarification for Members.

Members' Statements

Pádraig Delargy (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

Before I begin, I declare an interest: a family member of mine is employed through Foras na Gaeilge funding. I also inform the House that I intend to make my initial remarks in Irish.

Amárach, beidh eagrai´ochtai´ Gaeilge agus gru´pai´ pobail ar fud na ti´re ag dul ar stailc mar gheall ar chiorruithe. Imri´onn na gru´pai´ sin a fhaigheann maoiniu´ o´ Fhoras na Gaeilge, ro´l la´rnach i bhforbairt agus i gcothu´ na teanga. Déanann siad obair den scoth i measc an phobail ar son na Gaeilge. Tacai´mid leo agus iad ar stailc ama´rach.

[Translation: Tomorrow, Irish language organisations and community groups across the country will be going on strike against funding cuts. Those organisations, which receive funding from Foras na Gaeilge, play a pivotal role in the development and preservation of the Irish language. They do great work throughout the community for the Irish language. We support them as they go on strike tomorrow.]

Tomorrow, Irish language and community organisations across the North and across Ireland will take a stand in protest against funding cuts. I offer those groups my full support and solidarity, as well as that of Sinn Féin, on the picket line. Fair funding is essential in order to ensure that they remain sustainable and continue to grow.

The organisations that rely on funding from Foras na Gaeilge deliver essential services at the very heart of our communities. They play a pivotal role in the ongoing development and preservation of the Irish language. The revival of the Irish language is well under way. We see it thriving across our society every day. Grassroots organisations play a vital role in its resurgence. We must rally behind those groups and support their invaluable work in every way in which we can. They are not just preserving the Irish language and Irish heritage but creating jobs, providing services for families and communities and promoting the language in a host of ways. I therefore appeal to everyone to approach positively the issue of providing proper funding to those organisations, with a determination to find a workable, long-term resolution.

Tom Buchanan (DUP, West Tyrone)

Over the past week, the BBC has, once again, shown its true colours with the broadcasting of the documentary 'Gaza: How to Survive a Warzone', which featured prominently family members of the terrorist group Hamas. The documentary, which first aired on BBC 2 on Monday evening last week, centred around the 14-year-old narrator, who is a son of the Deputy Minister of Agriculture in the Hamas-run Government. Another child in the documentary is the daughter of a former captain in the Hamas-run police force. A third child was pictured posing with Hamas fighters. I fail to understand how the BBC did not know whom the children in the documentary were. One of the first questions that a BBC producer should have asked was, "Who are the parents of these children?". The producer should also have asked whether there was permission for them to be shown in the documentary. A little research shows that a member of the documentary's production crew celebrated the massacre of the Israeli people on 7 October 2023. It was only after questions were raised about the children who featured in the show that the BBC added a disclaimer to clarify their links to Hamas. Following fierce criticism over the weekend, however, the show has now been deleted from its streaming services altogether.

The broadcasting of the documentary was nothing short of a propaganda stunt for Hamas, promoted by the BBC. Questions must now be asked about whether the BBC used licence fee money, paid by the public, to produce the documentary and about whether the BBC made payments to Hamas officials.

The BBC's impartiality has been in question since the attacks on 7 October 2023. It has repeatedly refused to call Hamas terrorists despite Hamas being listed as a terrorist organisation by the UK Government. Last week, the world witnessed the heartbreaking return in coffins of the Bibas children, who were murdered by Hamas. It is without a shadow of doubt that Hamas are terrorists solely intent on murdering the Jewish people. I strongly urge the BBC to look into its organisational hierarchy, as deep antisemitic views appear to be rooted in it that it needs to address urgently, if it wants to be considered as impartial reporters ever again.

Paula Bradshaw (Alliance, Belfast South)

In recent days, some in the Chamber may have seen on social media the graphic for the dual so-called peaceful gatherings that are due to take place in Belfast and Derry on 23 March. Let me be clear: we in the Alliance Party absolutely support and respect the right to peaceful protest. However, I am gravely concerned about the language used in the graphic, which states:

"Our men, women and children cannot be exposed to any more harm."

What harm do they speak of? My recollection of the fallout from the previous protest last summer was that people were intimidated in and out of their home. Many businesses were burned to the ground, and hotels were damaged. Neighbourhoods were vilified and branded as racist and intolerant. Thirty people were charged, including young people between the ages of 14 and 16. International student numbers were down in our two universities, such was the worldwide reporting of the incidents. Most worrying were the physical attacks: at least 10 police officers were injured, and many individuals were attacked just for going about their daily lives, including a young man to whom I spoke, who was chased by four men and had his head stamped on. That is what harm looks like.

Let me be clear: as the Justice Minister noted in the Chamber yesterday, we do not accept that the risk of injury should be part of the job of policing. Police officers are public servants. We should, therefore, all be concerned that there may be a repeat of the violence in March and be mindful that our front-line police officers would bear the brunt of it. It is one thing for misinformation to be spread online but quite another for it to be spread in the Chamber. Members have a responsibility to act and speak in a manner that keeps all people safe.

The Executive Office's draft refugee integration strategy was consulted on in November 2021, but there is no sign of it yet from the First Minister and deputy First Minister, with no credible explanation. I appreciate that TEO officials are working on its draft form, but signing off on it would send a strong message to everyone in society because of the importance given to it by our two First Ministers. We all need to be leaders in our constituencies and stand up for the marginalised and vulnerable, among whom are asylum seekers and refugees who have come to our country because of our freedoms and protections. We cannot let some destroy that for everyone.

Daniel McCrossan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, West Tyrone)

I pay tribute to two significant Strabane figures who passed away in the past week: Raymond Kirk and Sean McGrane. They were local businessmen who, between them, had over 100 years of business experience working in their menswear businesses. They supported and clothed many generations of Strabane families through the years. I pay tribute to them because of the overwhelming contribution that they made to our community over many decades. They were weaved into the fabric of Strabane's once-bustling business town. Today, in 2025, their businesses live on through the people to whom they handed them on.

Sean McGrane was a gentleman. His business was Strabane's version of 'Are You Being Served?'. He was sure to meet you at the door; he looked after all of your needs; and you never left empty-handed. He was often accompanied by his wonderful wife, Sheila. He will be sorely missed by the Strabane community. Raymond Kirk was a monumental figure in Strabane. He came from Clady and not only fell in love in Strabane but set up a business there that has survived 67 years under his leadership. Sadly, he passed away last week after a long illness. He also paid a significant contribution to the community. He was heavily involved in St Pat's hall and the local church and had a huge impact on the local GAA, particularly the Strabane Sigersons club.

The shops of those two individuals were just a few doors apart. They were outstanding examples of public service at its best. I have no doubt that Raymond and Sean's legacy will be imprinted on their families and the entire community. They have gifted our town a lifetime of cherished memories, dedicated public service and unwavering human decency and kindness. They both embodied the essence of Strabane at its finest. On behalf of the House, I pass on sincere condolences to both families and our thanks to those two gentlemen, who stood the test of time and survived in business during the most challenging times for our people.

Diane Dodds (DUP, Upper Bann)

On 7 October 2023, Hamas terrorists killed 1,200 Israeli citizens and took over 250 hostage. It was the biggest loss of Jewish life since the Holocaust. The hostages included children, their parents and many elderly men and women. Tomorrow, the Bibas family will bury Shiri, a young mother who was taken hostage with her two babies, Ariel and Kfir. Their father, who has only recently been released from Gaza, will not only bury his family but will do so in the knowledge that Shiri's parents were also murdered on that day. Today, I want to make sure that the record of the Assembly records their suffering and grief. We cannot begin to imagine their suffering in Gaza. I also acknowledge the charade around their handover.

After the Holocaust, the world promised that we would never again allow such slaughter, yet the rights industry and so-called progressive groups and politicians across the world have been notable by their silence on this issue. Where are the women's groups who took up the issue of that young mother and her babies? Shamefully, many in the House cannot bring themselves to acknowledge their pain and suffering. The supposed First Minister for all, in her explanation for boycotting St Patrick's Day in Washington DC, tried to tell us that she was on the side of humanity, yet not one word about the Bibas family, not one word about their suffering, kidnapping and death. In the same week, Sinn Féin eulogised the IRA man responsible for the Bayardo bombing on the Shankill Road, the murder of five innocent Protestants and the maiming of 60 people.

It is clear that Sinn Féin's support for terrorism runs very deep. It does not care about the innocents of the 7 October attack in Israel, the killing and maiming of people on the Shankill Road or attacks in hospitals in Northern Ireland. As we have seen with the Omagh inquiry, the pain and suffering from terrorism run deep in Northern Ireland. It is impossible to heal as a community while Sinn Féin continues its glorification of terrorism.

Nuala McAllister (Alliance, Belfast North)

Last week, we saw in public the story of Sophie Rodgers. Her mother bravely spoke out publicly for the first time because her daughter — an 18-year-old with complex needs — was being held in Hydebank due to a lack of residential places. Sophie has never been convicted of a crime but has been arrested three times and jailed — first in Woodlands and then in Hydebank. We should never have a justice response to a healthcare issue.

That is not an isolated incident. Families are at breaking point and in crisis because they need the help that they are simply not getting, and it is help that they are entitled to. That is why, last March, I raised with the then Health Minister, Robin Swann, when he first appeared at the Health Committee, the lack of respite places for families.

I got a response, and I believed at the time that he and his Department would take the issue seriously. Since then, the Health Committee has taken seriously the Ray Jones review and has had updates on where we are, particularly with residential provision.

We then saw the 'Spotlight' programme about four mums who were dealing with the difficult and complex needs of their children but were not being provided with the residential places that they deserve. The issue is yet to be fixed, and we are yet to see stepping stones towards solutions. Despite £13 million being secured for respite provision, we are not getting information on how many extra beds or how many extra members of staff we will see. I asked the Health Minister at Committee two weeks ago whether he could outline how many beds would be allocated to those families, but he was unaware of the figure, as it was yet to be finalised. He was also unaware of the issues surrounding Redwood, one of the residential places that was due to open, but, given that I had tabled a question for written answer and received an answer to it several months before that Health Committee meeting, the Department was well aware that there were issues that could be resolved. That is simply not good enough.

We cannot have families relying on the justice system and the police to respond to their desperate cries for help. We need to ensure that there is a healthcare response so that families do not reach crisis point. It has now gone beyond residential respite; it is about permanent places for many families. They are in desperate need of help, and we can no longer turn them away.

Maurice Bradley (DUP, East Londonderry)

I was honoured to be invited to attend Millburn Primary School in Coleraine on Friday morning to celebrate the Chinese Lunar New Year, thanks to the kindness of the school's principal, Mrs Lamont, and her dedicated staff. They were privileged to have the Chinese consul general, Mr Li Nan, as their guest of honour. Millburn Primary School stands out as the only primary school in the United Kingdom to hold both a hub status for the Confucius Institute and the prestigious 'Global Classroom of the Year' award. Millburn has a been a pioneer in teaching Mandarin and Chinese culture, providing invaluable opportunities for pupils across all Key Stages and staff to visit China and perform at illustrious events.

In a themed assembly hall, the significance of the Chinese New Year was highlighted through captivating stories, music and performances. The school choir and singing quartet delighted us with songs that were performed in Mandarin. Pupils and parents were also treated to a mesmerising Chinese opera performance and an exciting dance that featured a unique mask-changing technique, which mesmerised the children. The activities not only entertained students but helped them to appreciate and understand the rich traditions of the Chinese New Year and the 5,000-year history of China through language, culture, music and dance.

The school enhances its pupils' employability by helping them to achieve recognised and accredited Mandarin language qualifications. Millburn has also showcased its pupils' talents at Stormont and Belfast City Hall. At all levels, Millburn Primary School has been a strong and vibrant ambassador for the Causeway Coast and Glens area. I wish continued success to the staff and pupils in learning and speaking Mandarin and in enriching the Chinese culture at Millburn Primary School.

Gerry Carroll (People Before Profit Alliance, Belfast West)

Yesterday marked three years since the war in Ukraine began. The result has been devastation for ordinary Ukrainians and Russians, with hundreds of thousands killed and millions being forced out of their homes. War is futile and a colossal waste of human life. The resources that are spent on war could instead be funnelled into protecting people in this country from dying in their homes at wintertime because of the cut to the winter fuel payment. That is not to mention the extra money that could be funnelled into the health service to save and enhance lives rather than destroy them as has happened with the billions that have been pumped into keeping the war going. Keir Starmer has pumped at least £8 billion of military assistance into Ukraine whilst forcing people to freeze during this winter. There is always money for war, but when we demand money for services, we are told, "It is not available, sorry".

Putin's actions were rightly condemned and called out across the board. We opposed the war and Putin's actions whilst others fell over themselves to welcome him to the G8 summit in Fermanagh and opposed a ceasefire every step of the way. Imagine that: they opposed a ceasefire every step of the way. They wanted other people to spill blood for the purpose of imperial rivalry and a carve-up.

In the US, Donald Trump's recent manoeuvres are not necessarily pro-Russian, as they have been described. Like every other aspect of his Administration, they are ruthlessly pro-American and a direct expression of the current US grand strategy. They believe China to be the economic rival, and any way in which to undermine China and Russia is worth pursuing to the advantage of the US. Trump is demanding a £400 billion payback from Ukraine. In turn, the US will loot the country of its resources. It is the same as it ever was; Trump is just more aggressive and upfront about it.

A leaked report to 'The Telegraph' has shown what motivates the US. It wants to set up a US-Ukraine investment fund, with 50% of the resources that are taken going directly to the US. A source close to the negotiations described one clause to mean:

"pay us first, and then feed your children".

That is the result of US and all imperial adventures. No doubt Biden or Harris would have tried something similar.

What has been the result of the war? It has been carnage, death and destruction. We need to call out consistently the aggressive bullying and dominant role across the world that the US and its EU allies have planned regardless of current tensions between them. We should not paint Putin or anyone else who has their own empire as an alternative to the US. We need a world without empires and capitalism.

NATO, which has been expanding exponentially from the 1990s right up to the present day, should be disbanded. It is an aggressive, offensive military organisation that causes death and destruction across the world, while Members to my right laugh at it.

[Interruption.]

Regrettably, countries across Europe have folded and dropped any pretence of military neutrality. Thankfully, in the South of Ireland, despite a deluge of propaganda that has been waged —

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

The Member's time is up.

Gerry Carroll (People Before Profit Alliance, Belfast West)

— a huge proportion of the public remains committed to neutrality.

Jonathan Buckley (DUP, Upper Bann)

We hear a lot in the Chamber about emergencies and crises, such as the climate emergency, health crisis and cost-of-living crisis. We debate strategies, funding and urgent interventions, but let me ask this: where is the same determination, intent and urgency when it comes to safeguarding our children? Where is the national outcry for the most vulnerable, the innocent and the voiceless — the children who are being exploited, abused and violated while we stand by and watch the statistics climb?

The latest figures from the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children paint a horrifying picture. Crimes involving images of child sexual abuse have almost doubled in the past five years in Northern Ireland, with a staggering 98% increase. In the past year, offences have risen by 24%, with 859 cases being recorded by the PSNI in 2023-24. That means that, in the past five years, there have been 3,382 recorded crimes, each involving an individual child who has been robbed of basic human dignity. Let us be clear about this: those are only the ones that we know about, yet there is a silence that allows those crimes to fester in the shadows, emboldens predators and leaves children unprotected.

Separate figures show that, across the UK, half of those offences occur on Snapchat and a quarter on platforms such as Instagram, Facebook and WhatsApp, yet, in Northern Ireland, the PSNI does not even record which platform is being used. How can we fight that epidemic when we are not even gathering the full picture of the scale of the crime? How can we tackle this horror if we do not have the data, the strategy or the will to take decisive action? We live in a society that is increasingly normalising the sexual threat towards children. It is a society where predators are protected by anonymity, where platforms turn a blind eye and where the response is too slow, too weak and often too late.

We must demand action. We must seek stronger laws, tougher sentences and full enforcement. No predator should walk the streets of Northern Ireland safe in the knowledge that their crimes will go unpunished.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

The Member's time is up.

Justin McNulty (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

I rise to speak on the Department for Infrastructure's proposal to construct a fixed bridge across Newry canal.

People in Newry are making it clear to me, to their local councillors and directly to the Department for Infrastructure through the ongoing public consultation that they cannot countenance the prospect of a fixed bridge that permanently severs and seals Newry canal from Carlingford lough and the Irish Sea. I am strongly of the opinion that proceeding with a fixed bridge across Newry canal would be a spectacular own goal. Such a decision would not only undermine Newry's proud maritime history but significantly complicate the efforts that are currently under way to regenerate Newry canal.

All involved in the campaign to protect and secure Newry's maritime heritage were buoyed by the news that a local MLA had taken up the post of Minister for Infrastructure. I am glad that the Minister is in the Chamber to hear this statement. Liz, I wish you well in your new post. Reassuringly, just a few short years ago, the now Infrastructure Minister, Liz Kimmins MLA, made her position on the issue clear when she said:

"It is of the utmost importance that the lifting bridge design is prioritised. Our waterways need to be open, especially when we see the progress and potential of Newry city park and the Albert Basin. This will be a major boost for the tourism economy in the Newry and Mourne region."

Those are wonderful words, and it is reassuring that the Minister said that. I fully agree with her that strategically harnessing the potential of waterways as a tourism asset and as economic drivers has had a powerfully positive impact for businesses and communities in Ireland, Britain and in mainland Europe. The revitalisation of the Shannon waterways led to the creation of construction and environmental management jobs during the restoration. It created permanent jobs in boating, hospitality and tourism and has led to significant small business growth and local economic enhancement, adding an estimated €14 million annually to the Irish economy.

The regeneration of the Grand Union canal in Britain is estimated to have brought approximately £3·5 billion of associated investment with it. The revitalisation of the Canal du Midi in France has generated an estimated €7·5 million in annual tourism revenue that has dramatically increased international recognition and tourism footfall, primarily through cycling tours and canal cruises. The Rhine-Herne canal, which is a major inland waterway in Germany, has seen revitalisation in Duisburg, a post-industrial city that was once heavily reliant on secondary industry, quite like Newry. Regeneration efforts have included the conversion of old industrial sites into cultural spaces, parks and recreational areas along the canal. The project has contributed significantly to the local economy, attracting around one million visitors annually.

A major concern about the discussion around the fixed bridge over Newry canal is that the decision appears to be a fait accompli. Despite having committed a grand total of zero pounds to the project, the Department for Infrastructure is citing financial pressures as a means to justify a fixed bridge.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

The Member's time is up.

Peter Martin (DUP, North Down)

The Samaritans have been providing essential support and services to people in Northern Ireland since 1961. Their dedicated volunteers support millions of individuals through life-saving conversations. They are the only 24/7 suicide prevention charity working across Ireland and the UK, day and night, 365 days a year. Recently, delegates and volunteers came together in my constituency for a conference to mark the 50th anniversary of the Bangor branch. I am extremely proud to represent a constituency where that transformative work has been going on for so many years, with so many dedicated volunteers. They are real-life heroes.

During 2023 alone in Northern Ireland, they answered 100,000 calls and emails, responding to 300 calls a day, equating to a call every four and a half minutes. They have 600 trained listening volunteers, who delivered more than 30,000 hours of support. Yet, their life-saving efforts have been repeatedly hampered by a chronic deficiency in suitable funding. In the past, the Samaritans would have received a very modest £12,000 from the Department of Health, but that was cut by 50%. In recent times, they have been increasingly forced to rely on the goodwill of the many people who donate to the organisation. As everyone knows, however, it is neither sustainable nor secure to rely wholly on public contributions.

Last week, the Samaritans were informed by the Department of Health that they did not secure any core funding grant from the Health Minister. It is worth remembering that the core grant equates to 0·02% of Health's £8·5 billion budget. My office spoke to the Northern Ireland Samaritans immediately after the decision, and they said that they were at a total loss. The organisation's life-saving work could not fit in more neatly to the economic concept of invest to save, but that seems to be lost on the Department of Health. The Health Minister must review that decision urgently, look at options and increase the core grant funding, even modestly. No one in the Chamber or beyond can consciously dismiss the severity of the problems now facing that organisation and many others. With their Department of Health funding now culled, the services are at further risk. In a world where mental health services are increasingly in demand, we cannot afford to lose the Samaritans and the life-saving work that they do.

Assembly Business

Justin McNulty (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Following Question Time yesterday, the Justice Minister took to social media to brand me and my party colleagues as sectarian for asking legitimate questions about the Minister's record on police recruitment and a representative Police Service. I ask for a ruling on whether it is in order for a Minister to disparage Assembly colleagues in such a manner or to label those who disagree with her as sectarian either in the Chamber or on social media.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

My role in that matter ends in the Chamber. Thankfully, I do not control social media

[Laughter.]

I have enough problems without that. I will leave you to defend yourselves on social media, which, I am sure, you will be quite capable of doing, Mr McNulty.

Ministerial Statement

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

I call the Minister.

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle,

[Translation: Thank you, Mr Speaker,]

for the opportunity to address the Assembly on the way forward for the Belfast Rapid Transit phase 2 project (BRT2).

The BRT2 project is one of three projects being taken forward by my Department as part of the Belfast region city deal and formed part of the programme announced in the 2018 autumn Budget statement. The commitment to city and growth deal funding was made on the basis that a returning Executive would provide a matching amount to fund a series of infrastructure, regeneration and tourism projects that would deliver on inclusive economic growth. I was pleased to note that the Executive agreed to provide the match funding necessary to take forward those important and pivotal projects.

The BRT2 project is a significant investment in our public transport infrastructure, with the cost of full delivery in the region of £142 million to £148 million. I am pleased that the funding envelope of £35 million from our Belfast region city deal partners will allow my Department to make an early start on this critical public transport project and lay good foundations for future development as we seek to address the funding shortfall and permit delivery of the full BRT2 project.

In October 2022, my predecessor, Minister O'Dowd, announced the route along the Antrim Road in the north and the Ormeau Road and Saintfield Road in the south, commissioning work on the feasibility of its extension to Glengormley and Carryduff. At the same time, the extension of the existing G2 city centre to Titanic Quarter Glider service to connect with Queen's University and the City Hospital was announced. Considering the funding envelope available for BRT2 and taking account of the outworkings of the feasibility studies, I have concluded that any extension of the Glider service beyond Cairnshill park-and-ride towards Carryduff is not economically viable at this time but will be re-examined when further development along the route is realised. Similarly, the significant congestion in Glengormley, a pending public realm scheme planned for the town, and the limited funding available for the BRT2 scheme make it challenging to extend the service to Glengormley. Therefore, the extension to Glengormley is not feasible at this time, but I will commission further work to determine if a viable option exists in and around the area.

A lot of change will be required to meet our net zero by 2050 targets. Therefore, we need to provide attractive and sustainable transport alternatives, such as public transport, walking, wheeling and cycling. Without those, our people, our cities and our towns will choke. People deserve better: a cleaner, greener urban environment in which they can live and thrive. That will transform our towns and villages into more vibrant places where traffic congestion and air quality are less of an issue and streets feel safer and more pleasant for everyone.

I welcome the £35 million contribution from the Belfast region city deal and recognise that that significant investment will bring enhancements to the city centre and the wider public transport network as we seek to promote sustainable travel options and improve public transport journey time reliability, as well as providing better connectivity for our citizens. The current east-west Glider service is an excellent example of how my Department can provide accessible, reliable and attractive public transport for all.

Post COVID, we have continued to realise increasing passenger numbers, making a positive difference to the removal of cars from the road network as we seek to reduce congestion in our city centre. BRT2 will provide a service to the north and south of our city, bringing the benefits of the current Glider service to our citizens who live along the route. Whilst the full funding for the delivery of the scheme is not available at present, my Department has developed options to maximise the benefits from the available funding in advance of the delivery of the full scheme. In this early phase, I propose to deliver the full G2 extension, providing linkages to Queen's University and the City Hospital, including halts and the provision of Glider vehicles.

Most of us recognise that we are living through a climate and biodiversity crisis. In any crisis, action is needed. There has been progress: for example, during this term, Minister O'Dowd announced a phased rolling out of 100 environmentally sustainable electric buses in a £64 million investment. As part of my continued commitment to sustainability, I propose to commission the purchase of four EV Glider vehicles within the BRT2 project to be tested as a pilot scheme on the heavily utilised east-west G1 route. That will free up four existing Glider vehicles to service the G2 extension. Outworkings of the pilot will be used to determine the practicality of the roll-out of those sustainable vehicles for BRT2, as well as future Glider routes. I am also committed to enhancing our public transport infrastructure and, as part of this early phase, will deliver bus priority measures from Clifton Street to Innisfayle Park along the Antrim Road and from Ormeau Road to Park Road on the southern route, in readiness for the full BRT2 scheme.

As a key element of the Climate Change Act 2022 and in its own right, active travel will play a crucial role in empowering people to make more sustainable choices, particularly for shorter everyday journeys and in combination with public transport for longer journeys. With safe, reliable and accessible active travel infrastructure, individuals are more likely to embrace healthier alternatives to driving. As part of my commitment to the provision of active travel infrastructure and through the £35 million funding available for BRT2, I will bring forward the design and construction of Bankmore Link to provide key linkages of the Belfast cycle network and connectivity between the new Lagan pedestrian and cycle bridge and Grand Central station. Aligning with the aspirations of the Bolder Vision and Belfast Streets Ahead blueprints and working in partnership with our colleagues in DFC and Belfast City Council, we will design and construct the northern civic spine of the city, along Donegall Place and Royal Avenue, which will include the city centre bus priority measures required for BRT2.

To demonstrate my commitment to sustainable transport and to provide attractive alternatives to the private car, I have committed an additional £13 million from my future departmental budgets to deliver a park-and-ride site on the O’Neill Road, as part of the advance phase. Whilst it will not be served by Glider vehicles at this stage, Translink Metro buses will provide a service to and from that site. Park-and-ride is a key enabler to improving connections, increasing public transport use, promoting sustainability and encouraging behavioural shift and in helping to drive down congestion and emissions, change travel patterns and protect our environment. The advancement of the BRT2 scheme will be subject to the approval of the outline business case (OBC), which is at an advanced stage.

I reassure Members that I remain fully committed to progressing the entirety of the scheme, and I will continue to work with Executive colleagues and the Belfast region city deal partners to ensure that the appropriate level of investment is made available to deliver the project. This is just step one to get the project on the ground. I very much hope that everyone will now get behind this much-needed and long-awaited scheme in the interests of the greater good of our communities and of future generations. Officials will brief the business stakeholder reference group this afternoon to inform it of my decision and will meet elected representatives in due course.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

I commend the Minister for bringing the statement to the House. Almost 20 Members wish to ask questions, which demonstrates the value of doing it by oral statement. That said, we need Members to facilitate us by asking concise questions.

Matthew O'Toole (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

Uncharacteristically, I will endeavour to fulfil that request, Mr Speaker.

I welcome the Minister's bringing the statement to the House. It is, however, a deeply disappointing day for people in north and south Belfast, and it is perhaps unsurprising that not a single North Belfast or South Belfast Sinn Féin MLA is in the Chamber. People in Carryduff and Glengormley were made promises by Executive parties, including the Minister's, and they have been let down. There are thousands of people in those areas, where new houses are being built. Minister, you said that Belfast Rapid Transit — the Glider — phase 2 will continue, but you did not say when. Will you confirm when the outline business case will be published and, specifically, when Glider phase 2, which was due to be transformative, will be delivered?

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Member for his question, and I understand the frustration. As I said clearly in my statement, the full funding is not available. It is my view that we should do as much as we can with what we have, but it is important to reiterate that this is only the first step. If we want to do it, we have to do it right, and my Department is considering all options to make Glider phase 2 viable. We want to see those linkages being delivered, and we will continue to work with Executive colleagues and all other Members to make sure that we see them realised at the earliest possible stage.

Deborah Erskine (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Like you, Mr Speaker, I welcome the opportunity that has been presented by the Minister's making the statement in the House and thank her for coming to the Chamber so that we can ask questions on it. It is deeply disappointing that the announcement was made in October 2022 and that this is where we are at now, in February 2025. I therefore look forward to hearing officials give evidence to the Committee for Infrastructure, as I believe that there is more to scope out from the statement.

How confident is the Minister that there is security of funding for delivering that phase and the other phases that are set against key milestones for project delivery along the projected route?

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Member for her question. In October 2022, there was a collapse of the Assembly. That has to be factored in. My predecessor had nevertheless endeavoured to bring the statement to the House earlier, but, given some of the recent weather incidents, it had to be delayed. We have tried to get the statement out as quickly as possible.

As the Member knows, I continue to work hard with Executive colleagues to make the case for every funding envelope. I give her a commitment today that we will work to deliver the project in its entirety. I will continue to work with my colleagues to ensure that we secure the funding that is needed in the time ahead. We are heading into a new financial year and continue to look at and work through the options that are available to us.

Cathal Boylan (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Cuirim fáilte roimh ráiteas an Aire.

[Translation: I welcome the Minister's statement.]

What impact will BRT2 have on city-centre congestion?

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I thank my colleague for his question. I am acutely aware of the issues with city-centre traffic congestion while essential works are undertaken at Belfast Grand Central station and on the A2 Sydenham bypass. Those works are necessary, however, as we seek to provide an enhanced public transport network. Although I appreciate that the situation has been difficult, the delivery of the new Belfast Grand Central station will hopefully encourage the public to use alternative means of transport into the city centre, thus increasing the use of sustainable transport and removing congestion.

The success of Belfast Rapid Transit phase 1 as a sustainable transport solution resulted in a 70% increase in patronage along that corridor and provided an additional, attractive, alternative and modern mode of travel into the city centre. Although the business case for BRT2 is still being finalised, it is anticipated that it will bring similar benefits and yield a modal shift away from private cars. I travelled to Stormont on the Glider this morning, and, as someone from an area outside Belfast, where we do not always have access to such modern and effective modes of public transport, I can certainly say that I was delighted to have the opportunity to use it and to see how effective and efficient it is.

I hope that we can see a resolution to the congestion, but the works being undertaken are for the benefit of everyone across the city.

Peter McReynolds (Alliance, Belfast East)

I thank the Minister for her statement and for taking the Glider to Stormont today. I welcome today's recommitment to delivering the full G2 extension to connect the Titanic Quarter in east Belfast, Belfast City Hospital and Queen's University.

Minister, you acknowledged that full funding for the scheme is not available at present. Officials told me similar at an Infrastructure Committee meeting last year. Can you confirm what the shortfall is now and how you are trying to reduce it?

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

As I said, the shortfall is quite significant. The overall project is £48 million, so there is a shortfall of approximately £100 million, given that the estimate is around £142 million to £148 million in total. It is a huge amount of work, and we recognise that that is a significant shortfall. However, it is not unachievable. There are definitely things that we can do. If there is a phased approach, we will continue to work through that.

The Member outlined the connectivity to the hospital and the Queen's University area. They are key aspects of the project. We have seen the congestion around our university areas. I hope that the project will encourage students, staff and other people who travel in and out of that area on a regular basis, including those with hospital appointments, to see the benefits of using the Glider service. There are huge benefits to come out of what is being announced today. However, I recognise that more work needs to be done and more funding is required, and we will continue to work to secure that.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

I thank the Minister for her remarks so far. Minister, I, as an MLA for South Antrim, and the MLAs for North Belfast are really concerned that the Glider will not go out to Glengormley, Global Point and the new Advanced Manufacturing Innovation Centre (AMIC) facility, which would have demonstrated joined-up thinking. We are also concerned, from hearing your remarks today, about the proposed park-and-ride facility on O'Neill Road. Will the Minister and her officials join MLAs to walk the road to explain how it is going to work? Quite frankly, as somebody who has lived in the area for a long time, I cannot see how it is going to work.

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Member for his invite. We can certainly consider that, because it is important for us to be out on the ground to understand the local concerns and, hopefully, allay them. The proposal is for the site that is situated on lands adjacent to the O'Neill Road recycling centre, which is just south of Glengormley. The site extends to approximately five acres, with the potential to accommodate in the region of 500 parking spaces. Hopefully, we will see the benefits of that. I am happy to take that up with the Member afterwards.

Emma Sheerin (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I thank the Minister for her statement. Following today's announcement, Minister, what work will you do with residents and traders who may be affected by the disruption? Will there be a dedicated point for communication with people who are impacted on by the ongoing work?

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Member for her question. It is a very important question, given that we have learned lessons from the original BRT project. Regular and meaningful engagement will be undertaken with stakeholders from the outset of the project. That will take the form of a regular, formal briefings and ad hoc meetings with individuals and interest groups. Public information events will also be held as the project progresses through detailed design and delivery.

During the implementation of the scheme, we will use additional communications to the travelling public through variable message signage, our Traffic Watch NI page and the BRT2 website. Consideration will also be given to the timing of necessary roadworks to ensure that they take advantage of seasonal and off-peak traffic volumes, where possible. We have learned lessons from projects in the past, and it is important that we use foresight to ensure that we have as smooth a delivery as possible. The BRT2 team in the Department can be contacted through its dedicated mailbox, details of which can be found on the website. We are keen for anybody to engage with us.

David Brooks (DUP, Belfast East)

The Minister says that they have learned lessons from the original BRT scheme. How will she ensure that park-and-ride facilities have appropriate capacity so that parking does not become a scourge on communities, as it has in Dundonald and other parts of east Belfast?

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Member for his question. The park-and-ride facility that is proposed at O'Neill Road has a significant number of spaces, so we hope that such facilities will address the need in the areas in which they will be available. As I mentioned, just this morning, I got the Glider in from one of the sites that has a park-and-ride facility. I could see that it is very well used, which is a success story. We will engage with elected reps and listen to people on the ground: that is part of the engagement process that will be available to all residents, stakeholders and elected reps throughout the delivery of the project. We will monitor it and, as issues arise, hopefully, put in place solutions to alleviate them.

Nuala McAllister (Alliance, Belfast North)

I thank the Minister for the statement today. It is disappointing that the Glider is not currently being extended into Glengormley, but I use the word "currently" because we want to see that in the future. The Minister mentioned the park-and-ride on O'Neill Road, which is where some residents want it to be. However, is that park-and-ride for those using BRT, or will it link to the Abbey Centre or the city centre? We have no information about it. Can the Minister shed some light on that? Where exactly in north Belfast will the Glider stop when phase 1 is initiated?

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Member for her question. I will follow up with her in writing with more detail on the access points in north Belfast. I mentioned the O'Neill Road location for the park-and-ride site, and I will follow up in writing with any additional information that is required, if that is OK with the Member.

Colm Gildernew (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I thank the Minister for her statement. There are some very interesting elements, and better public transport infrastructure is absolutely the way that we need to go. I welcome her engagement with Members today and her commitment to further engagement. The 'A Bolder Vision' initiative was mentioned in your statement, and your Department, along with colleagues in the Department for Communities and Belfast City Council, has worked on that. How will this be of benefit in areas of high traffic, complement the work on the public realm and provide increased cycling and pedestrian opportunities in the city?

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Member for that question. It is important to say that my Department is proud to work alongside our partners in DFC and Belfast City Council to deliver the 'A Bolder vision for Belfast' initiative, which seeks to fundamentally reimagine how our streets and public spaces are used, making them more vibrant, more accessible and, most importantly, safer for all users. The BRT2 project will align with that initiative through the design and construction of the northern civic spine of the city, which runs along Donegall Place and Royal Avenue. It will include the city centre bus priority measures mentioned in the statement to deliver the commitment to a more efficient public transport network.

The 'A Bolder Vision' initiative also prioritises spaces for people who walk, wheel and cycle. As part of my commitment to the provision of active travel infrastructure, I will bring forward the design and construction of Bankmore Link to provide key linkages to the Belfast cycle network and strengthen the connection between the river and the city centre through the provision of the new Lagan pedestrian and cycle bridge.

Planning and redevelopment in the 1960s and 1970s segregated communities from each other and from the economic potential of the city core, resulting in the disconnection of the city core from communities. That also meant that no housing was built or developed in the city centre. Belfast city centre is made up of and surrounded by inner-city, working-class communities. A period of urban regeneration, through the 'A Bolder Vision' initiative, has the potential to change that by re-stitching and reconnecting the city centre to local neighbourhoods to create a tapestry that encourages living, working, socialising and active travel, as well as addressing the social, economic and health inequalities that are a huge challenge for any city.

Brian Kingston (DUP, Belfast North)

Regrettably, that was an underwhelming statement about BRT2 in north Belfast. Given that it does not even commit to extending into Glengormley, it calls into question the political decision to select the Antrim Road over the Shore Road corridor. At that time, others and I pointed out that the Shore Road has the necessary width and bus-using population right up to Rathcoole and beyond. The announcement of preparatory works does not mention Carlisle Circus. As the Minister may recall from the response to my question for oral answer last week, the Communities Minister, Gordon Lyons, said that the Clifton Gateway public realm scheme could not advance due to uncertainty about the future layout of Carlisle Circus. Can the Minister confirm whether Carlisle Circus is included in the announcement to enable the Clifton Gateway public realm scheme to proceed?

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I am disappointed that the Member feels that the announcement is underwhelming, because plenty of people in other parts of the North would be highly delighted to see such a scheme in their area. I appreciate the frustrations, and we can see the impact of underfunding on our public services across every Department. I have committed to doing what I can to secure the funding to ensure that the extension happens. The reality is that it is not viable at this point. We want to make sure that what we do is done right and that it causes the least disruption to residents and businesses.

It is very important to take all that into consideration.

Previous decisions on the route were made by my predecessor. However I am assured that all those decisions were taken after everything had been looked at in the round and were based on need. I do not agree with the Member's comments, but I am happy to work with him and address the issues that have been outlined. Hopefully, we can move this forward and, with Executive colleagues' support, secure the funding that is needed to do exactly what we have set out to do.

Declan McAleer (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

I agree with the Minister's previous comment: I would love to see the day that the Glider passes through Omagh, Strabane and other places in west Tyrone. Minister, do have any indication of when BRT2 will become operational?

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Delivery timescales for the full project are dependent on the availability of funding, as was outlined previously. It is possible that the north-south Glider service could become operational by 2030, but it is hoped that the initial phase could be delivered by 2027.

Andrew McMurray (Alliance, South Down)

Thank you, Minister, for the statement. The statement refers to active travel and park-and-ride as being means of tackling many issues, including the meeting of climate change targets, congestion, health and sustainability. Thinking specifically about bikes, what consideration is the Minister giving to accommodating active travel at both ends of a journey when it comes to using the Glider and other bus services?

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Member for that important question. As part of the overall commitment on active travel infrastructure, we are looking at all those things because it is important that, as we modernise our public transport, we consider our commitments to active travel. I think that those are key points. When we were out this morning on the Glider, one of the issues that was picked up concerned one of the cycle racks. We will be doing that on an ongoing basis across the piece as part of the active travel plan.

Stephen Dunne (DUP, North Down)

I thank the Minister for her statement, and I look forward to engaging with her at the Infrastructure Committee, hopefully sooner rather than later. From the time that the Glider was launched in 2018 to 2022, almost 4,000 penalties were issued for fare evasion. As a new Minister, I am keen to hear what lessons you feel can be learned about tackling fare evasion, particularly on the Glider services and in hotspots for fare evasion?

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Member for his question and his kind comments. I am looking forward to engaging with the Committee, hopefully, as you said, sooner rather than later. As someone who is new in the role, I will be looking at fare evasion, but, at this time, I am not aware of any specific plans on that issue. I am happy to follow up in writing with the Member on that.

Phillip Brett (DUP, Belfast North)

With all due respect, the statement is utter nonsense. In October 2022, your predecessor made a decision not to extend the scheme beyond Carryduff and Glengormley. A feasibility study was carried out, the Department came back to say that it was not extending the route and now you are saying that you are going to do another feasibility study. In a nine-page statement about BRT2, you cannot even give detail on the termination point on which you have signed off for the north Belfast route. Are you seriously saying that you have come to the Chamber and cannot tell us where you are currently proposing to stop the Glider route in north Belfast?

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

The Member made his feelings very clear through his constant tutting and sighing throughout the statement. With respect, it is my first statement, and I am willing to provide as much information as possible. I did not have the detail to hand and asked Miss McAllister whether I could follow up with it in writing. I am keen to do that with the Member too because I am working through this as best I can.

Colin McGrath (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

Residents of Downpatrick, Ballynahinch and Newcastle are used to being let down by the Executive, so the statement is, if anything, consistent. Given that the statement provides no dates for the work to commence on the Cairnshill stop, states that the route will not be extended to Carryduff and indicates that there is not sufficient funding, does the Minister agree that, for my constituents, it is disappointing, underwhelming and, basically, a let-down?

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I expect nothing else from the Member, because I have heard little positivity. As I said, plenty of areas across the North would love to see that extension, and I will work with all other areas, because we have a commitment to update our public transport, and we will continue to do so.

The scheme was in place before I was in post, and it has been delayed due to the Assembly's being down. I will take on board all the comments that have been made.

Kate Nicholl (Alliance, Belfast South)

I have not had the opportunity to congratulate the Minister on her new role, so congratulations, Minister.

My party was always realistic about the likelihood of the extension to Carryduff happening. What concerns us is the very real need for improvements in public transport and active travel towards Carryduff. In your statement, you said that that would be considered when funding is available. What reassurances can you give to people who live in that area who need improved public transport that the time will not just be extended further and further, with no improvements being made in the interim?

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Member for her comments and her question. I said that we will look at priority routes for Metro buses to enhance the service that is there, because we recognise the need for additional services. The Member asked about reassuring people about developing the service. We want to do that, and there is a need for it, but it is about getting it right and about putting the funding in place to do it properly. I hope that that gives reassurance, but I am happy to pick up on that later. As part of the engagement with residents, stakeholders and elected reps, we can, hopefully, start to allay some of those fears and work together in the time ahead.

Nicola Brogan (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire.

[Translation: I thank the Minister.]

What steps will her Department will take alongside statutory partners to ensure that disruption to traffic is considered?

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

We will work closely with statutory partners over the life cycle of the construction phase of the project in order to minimise traffic disruption along those arterial routes. As I said, lessons were learned through phase 1 of BRT, and we will continue to have key stakeholder forums to allow information to be disseminated on the delivery stage of the project. As with phase 1, we will establish a joint utilities working group to allow potential issues to be raised, managed and, if necessary, escalated and resolved in a timely manner in order to minimise potential delays to the road network.

At each stage of the project, we will undertake the necessary consultation as determined by the statutory processes, and we will endeavour to phase the construction works along the route to help minimise the impact on traffic, taking advantage of off-peak and seasonal reductions in traffic volumes where possible. The works will take time. Whilst they are challenging, we have a long-term vision for enhanced public transport services in Belfast, and the BRT2 project will help us to deliver that vision.

Órlaithí Flynn (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I thank the Minister for bringing the statement to the House. Communication has come up a few times. I know, Minister, that you are trying your best in the statement with the information and detail that you have at present, but what will be the Department's next steps in the communication about future works and having conversations with all the locally elected reps and local traders, businesses and residents?

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

As part of the implementation phase of BRT2, a detailed stakeholder engagement plan and associated communication strategy will be developed through the identification, mapping and involvement of key stakeholders in the project and those who live along the route. Regular updates on scheme progress and milestones will be shared on the Department's website through the dedicated BRT2 web pages. Officials will start that process by briefing the business stakeholder reference group this afternoon, as I outlined, and they will schedule meetings with elected representatives in due course. Public information events will also be held as the project progresses through the detailed design stage and into construction.

Paula Bradshaw (Alliance, Belfast South)

Thank you, Minister, for your statement. I very much welcome the updates on the halts at Belfast City Hospital and Queen's University and the advancement of the works along Bankmore Link. You mentioned the Lagan pedestrian and cycle bridge. Will you give us an update on that?

I will pick up on your point about the business stakeholder reference group. You will know that the thriving businesses along the lower Ormeau Road area are concerned about the lack of places where vehicles can stop and make deliveries. How will you and your officials address that so that the works will not negatively impact on those businesses?

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Member for her question. I will come back to you in writing about the Lagan bridge, because I want to give you the most recent update on it.

We will work with stakeholders at the earliest possible stage on the issues for businesses that you outlined on delivery and loading bays in order to find the most viable solution for dealing with them as the works commence. We can take that forward, and I will ask officials to actively consider it.

Mark Durkan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

I also take the opportunity to wish the Minister well in her new role. She said that, as someone from outside Belfast, it was a novelty to be able to get the Glider. For many people in more rural areas across the North, it would be a novelty to be able to get a bus. What measures will the Minister take to ensure that the investment required for these improvements in Belfast does not come at the expense of public transport infrastructure and services elsewhere across the North?

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

As an MLA for a constituency outside Belfast, I am very conscious that we need to update and upgrade our public transport network right across the North. A transport strategy and transport plans are being developed by my Department. Those take cognizance of all the issues that the Member has raised. This money is ring-fenced through the Belfast region city deal funding, and I have put in the additional funding to secure this particular project. However, that is not at the expense of any other project. I am keen to see greater progress on our public transport network right across the North.

Gerry Carroll (People Before Profit Alliance, Belfast West)

I share the disappointment of communities unable to avail themselves of public transport. I declare an interest as a regular user of the Gilder line; I used it this morning to get here.

Minister, you said that full funding is not available. My understanding is that a large sum of money is being spent on importing hydrogen from Europe for the use of buses here. Is that an area that you are looking at to provide adequate funding for an alternative local form of sustainable transport?

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

The Member knows that the Department has a commitment to reduce emissions from all its vehicles. We are working to do that. We see hydrogen buses all over, and they have been working really well. Likewise, we are updating our vehicles for the Glider service to try to reduce emissions and introduce electric vehicles.

We will continue to work to see from where we can secure that funding and whether it can be found within the Department. There is a wider responsibility in overall Executive funding and external funders as well. We continue to look at all options.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

No other Members wish to ask questions of the Minister, so that brings that to a conclusion.

Executive Committee Business

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

I call the Minister of Finance, John O'Dowd, to move the Further Consideration Stage of the Budget Bill.

Moved. — [Mr O'Dowd (The Minister of Finance).]

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

Thank you. As no amendments have been tabled, there is no opportunity to discuss the Budget Bill now. Members will, of course, have a full debate at Final Stage, which is scheduled for later today. The Further Consideration Stage of the Budget Bill is therefore concluded. The Bill stands referred to the Speaker.

Private Members' Business

Claire Sugden (Independent, East Londonderry)

I beg to move

That this Assembly recognises our ageing population and the challenges and opportunities that this presents for public services; acknowledges the vital contributions of older people while recognising the pressures on healthcare, social care, housing, transport and the economy; notes that failure to plan strategically will place unsustainable strain on public services, exacerbate inequalities and impact on the wider population; calls on the Executive to develop a cross-departmental strategy to ensure that services are adapted and resourced to meet the needs of an ageing society; and further calls on the First Minister and deputy First Minister to embed ageing population planning in the final Programme for Government 2024-27, to ensure long-term sustainability and resilience in public services.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

The Business Committee has agreed to allow up to one hour and 30 minutes for the debate. The proposer of the motion will have 10 minutes to propose and 10 minutes to make a winding-up speech. All other Members who are called to speak will have five minutes.

Claire Sugden (Independent, East Londonderry)

This is my first opportunity in nearly 11 years as an independent MLA to lead private Member's business. I have chosen to focus on the issue of strategic planning for an ageing population. I believe that it is the most important and necessary action that this Government and Assembly can take for the future of all public services in Northern Ireland.

This issue is not just about those in later life. It affects us all right now. The growing demands of an ageing population are already placing significant strain on our health and social care services, our workforce and our communities. This is not a problem for the future; it is a crisis unfolding today. We see it daily in every accident and emergency department across Northern Ireland, with patients waiting not hours but days to receive treatment, many of whom are older people who are weeping in pain and going without food or medication until it is their turn. As elected representatives, what are we doing — or, rather, not doing — when our hospitals are no longer safe in 2025? Public services are crumbling and, if we do not strategically plan for our changing demographics, the situation will only deteriorate further over the next decade. If we fail to act now, we are consigning future generations to a system that will have inevitably collapsed due to unsustainable pressure.

In 20 years, Northern Ireland has experienced a significant demographic shift. In 2001, the median age of our population was 34 years. By 2011, it had risen to 37, and in 2022, it reached 40. That trend reflects a growing proportion of older individuals in society, and, conversely, the percentage of children under 16 decreased from 24% in 2001 to 19% in 2021. Despite those clear demographic changes, our public services have not adapted accordingly. The current models are still largely based on a younger population profile that no longer reflects the reality of Northern Ireland today. Without strategic planning and reform, our public services will continue to face challenges in delivering effective support to our changing society. By 2040, one in four people here will be over 65, and, by 2070, for every two working-age people, there will be one pensioner. That shift presents challenges and opportunities, but what is certain is that failing to act now will lead to avoidable crises in healthcare, social care, housing, transport and the economy. The motion calls for a cross-departmental strategy to ensure that we meet the needs of our ageing society. It is a call for leadership, vision, responsibility and common sense and, critically, it is a call for action.

Before I speak to the challenges, I first acknowledge the vital contribution of our older people. They are essential to our communities as volunteers, carers and mentors and are often the ones holding families together. They are the childcare that the Executive have promised but so far not provided. They are filling the gaping holes that the Northern Ireland Executive tend to overlook, yet they continue to work, pay taxes and contribute to our economy in significant ways. Recognising their contribution is not only fair but absolutely necessary. A society that plans well for ageing does not merely support its older citizens; it benefits all generations. A well-supported older population means a stronger economy, healthier communities and a more resilient public sector.

Without strategic planning, we are setting ourselves up for failure. Right now, 80% of care packages in Northern Ireland are for older people, and the number of people living with dementia is set to treble in the next three decades, yet, instead of increasing capacity, we are seeing cuts to care home beds and domiciliary care services. Without proper planning, our health and social care system will simply not cope. This is not just about older people. More pressure on hospitals, GPs and emergency departments means longer waiting lists for everyone. If we do not plan for an ageing population, every patient, young and old, will feel the impact. They already are. As the UK's Chief Medical Officer, Chris Whitty, has highlighted, prevention and early intervention must be at the heart of ageing population planning. Our health system is too reactive and too busy fighting the fires. We need to invest in early detection, frailty prevention and long-term condition management. Supporting people to stay healthy for longer will ease the burden on acute hospital services.

More older people need accessible, age-appropriate housing, yet demand for social housing is at an all-time high whilst supply remains critically low. Many older people live in homes that are no longer suitable, but they have no alternative. If we do not fix this, we will see more preventable falls, more hospital admissions and more pressure on care services. We already have labour shortages in key sectors such as healthcare, social care, retail and hospitality. An ageing population means fewer working-age people, and, without planning, our economy will struggle. We need policies that support older workers to stay in employment and encourage younger people into key industries.

Many older people rely on public transport to stay independent, yet services, especially in rural areas, are simply not good enough. If we are serious about inclusion, we must make transport accessible, reliable and affordable for those who need it most.

With fewer people of working age paying taxes and more individuals drawing pensions, there will be growing pressures on public finances. The Government need to act now to make sure that pension systems are sustainable and that older people are protected from financial hardship. More and more essential services are now moving online, but many older people feel left behind. We need proper digital literacy programmes and alternative ways for people to access services so that they do not fall through the cracks, which we have seen happen in Executive programmes.

Loneliness is a major issue that the Assembly has talked about at length. We know that social exclusion leads to poor mental and physical health, yet too many older people feel cut off from their communities. We need better social infrastructure, places to meet, community groups and support networks to make sure that older people stay engaged and connected.

It is deeply concerning for me, and it should be concerning for the Assembly, that the Northern Ireland Executive have failed to adequately consider the reality of our ageing population in their current draft Programme for Government. Despite clear evidence that that demographic change will impact on every aspect of public life, there is no recognition of that challenge in their current plans. The Executive's failure to address the issue is short-sighted and irresponsible. Without a strategic approach, public services are becoming overwhelmed, inequalities are worsening and economic stability is at risk. We need decisive leadership that acknowledges the long-term implications of an ageing society and that takes action to ensure that our public services, workforce and infrastructure are prepared. The Government need to prepare. The absence of an ageing population plan in the Programme for Government is a glaring omission that must be rectified in the final draft. We cannot afford to wait any longer.

The evidence is clear: our population is ageing; our public services are under strain; and, without action, we face serious consequences. That is not just a warning — I hope that this debate is not just an echo chamber conversation — it is a call for action. We have an opportunity to shape the future, to build a society that values and supports people at every stage in their life and to do something useful in the Assembly to reflect the needs of the people outside this Building. A strategic, cross-departmental plan for ageing is not just necessary but essential for the sustainability of public services and the well-being of every citizen in Northern Ireland. We must invest, we must adapt and we must act now. I urge all Members to support the motion and to commit to securing a future where we can all age with dignity, security and confidence.

Philip McGuigan (Sinn Féin, North Antrim)

I welcome the motion. It clearly covers much more than health, as the proposer outlined, but that is what I, as my party's health spokesperson, will focus on.

The good news is that, because of science, modern medicine and better knowledge of fitness and nutrition, we are living longer, and our life expectancy is predicted to continue to increase. According to NISRA, the life expectancy of females is expected to increase from 82·3 years in 2022 to 85·4 years by 2047, and, for males here in the North, it is expected to increase from 78·4 years in 2022 to 81·9 years in 2047. For someone my age, that means that I have roughly 11,000 more days left, if I am lucky enough to reach the average male life expectancy. That sounds like a lot, but, as I get older, I use the phrase "time flies" much more often. Those 11,000 days could be my potential lifespan. That is what people used to be concerned with — how long they live for — and it is, obviously, still very important. However, there is, rightly, a growing shift towards focusing on people's healthspan. As individuals and as a society, we should work towards and focus not just on the years that we live but on the quality of our life and the years in which we can live in good health and independently, free from chronic diseases, disability or significant physical or mental decline.

The Executive therefore need to focus on the reality that, by 2027, the number of people living in the North who will be aged over 65 will exceed the number of children in our population. As an MLA for North Antrim, I represent, as does the proposer of the motion, part of the north coast, which has the North's highest percentage of the older population, so I am clearly in favour of the motion. We need to look at the strategic approach being taken and the policy being developed right across government in order to meet the demands.

Our health service currently faces significant challenges, including extensive waiting times, an escalating mental health crisis and severe workforce shortages. Those pressures are not solely because of a lack of funding. They are also as a result of the ongoing need to implement meaningful reform. We know that prolonged hospitalisation can negatively affect older people's health and life expectancy, yet we, as constituency MLAs, are also acutely aware of the problems that lots of families currently face in accessing quick and appropriate domiciliary care packages. We need to enhance home-based care so that we can reduce unnecessary hospital admissions and free up hospital beds. Older individuals generally prefer to receive care in their own home, which can lead to better health outcomes and also respects their wishes. Providing that care requires staff, and we know that the healthcare sector faces significant workforce shortages, particularly, but not exclusively, as a result of Brexit. We therefore need to find ways around those workforce shortages, and we need to ensure that our healthcare workers are paid appropriately for the work that they do.

Moreover, we can, and should, deliver more local and community initiatives. The IMPACTAgewell project, which is delivered by the Mid and East Antrim Agewell Partnership in my constituency, is an excellent example of a community-based approach to improving the health and well-being of older people. It states that, since its inception, it has saved the health service approximately £6·1 million through avoiding unscheduled care costs. There are many other examples across North Antrim, and across the North, of groups and communities coming together to help and support our ageing population. They should receive our support.

For older individuals with dementia, Sinn Féin advocates community and home-based care rather than hospital admission. We emphasise the need for adequate training for health and social care staff who deal with patients with dementia, as well as increased investment in home care supports and housing adaptations. We also acknowledge initiatives that are currently under way and that deserve our praise. The frailty pathway and the acute frailty audit programme aim to improve the journey and outcomes for older people who become acute inpatients. The ageing well public health planning team that the Public Health Agency (PHA) has established aims to enhance the health and well-being of older individuals and to reduce health disparities.

As I said, we need to focus much more on preventative measures to keep people well for longer. I attended a very informative event in the Long Gallery yesterday that had been organised by the allied health professional sector. There were quite a number of demonstrations given at that event that, if implemented, could improve the quality of outcomes for elderly citizens. I therefore encourage the Minister of Health to take a look at yesterday's event to see what he can learn from it.

Our Executive will face many challenges in the time ahead. As my party's health spokesperson, I am aware that there are many challenges in the health sector alone. It is crucial that we adopt —

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

The Member's time is up.

Philip McGuigan (Sinn Féin, North Antrim)

— policies and strategies to ensure that our public services are fit for purpose in order to meet the needs of our older population. That should be a priority.

Brian Kingston (DUP, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for East Londonderry Claire Sugden for tabling the motion, which recognises the changing demographics for age in Northern Ireland and the need to plan accordingly. The increase in average life expectancy across the United Kingdom is a great achievement. It was 46 years of age when my late granny was born, 59 when my late parents were born and 71 when I was born. It is now 82 years of age.

We are able to measure the increase in our older age groups in Northern Ireland. In the decade from 2013 to 2023, the population here aged 85 and over increased by 25%, which is a rate of increase that is more than five times higher than that for the population as a whole. By the end of this Assembly mandate in mid-2027, the long-term trend of the declining birth rate and greater life expectancy means that the proportion of Northern Ireland's population aged over 65 is expected to outnumber that aged under 15 for the first time.

Our party recognises the need to build an age-friendly society. The Democratic Unionist Party is committed to promoting the health and well-being of older people by ensuring that they have secure and safe accommodation, equal access to services, vibrant social and economic opportunities and protection against crime, abuse and poverty. One of the three missions in the draft Programme for Government is "People", with a focus on supporting:

"everyone at all stages of their life to ensure they have the chance to succeed by improving life opportunities"

and leaving no one behind.

The previous Commissioner for Older People for Northern Ireland (COPNI) stated:

"In the coming decades, every year more people will reach State Pension Age (SPA) than those who will reach working age ... By 2040, Northern Ireland will only have three people of working age per pensioner, and by 2070, it will only be around two."

Those expected demographic changes will mean that the proportion of the population that is of working age will progressively decrease while the number of people who will require services such as supported housing, social care and state pensions will increase.

There are many ways in which older people are impacted on, positively and negatively, by changes in society brought about by policy changes and technological advances. In Northern Ireland, there is a strong correlation between ageing populations, rural areas and limited access to digital services. Proficiency on digital devices is a prerequisite for many aspects of modern life, such as booking a flight or tickets for an event, accessing banking services or welfare benefits and making an online purchase. Older people, who are the last generation not to have grown up in the internet era, often need support to successfully access online services and all the more so if broadband access is limited in their area. Older people depend most on traditional forms of media, yet that is the group that the BBC has betrayed by scrapping the universal free TV licence for over-75s. Our party will continue to fight for the abolition of the licence fee, but, while it still exists, we will fight for the restoration of free TV licences for all those aged over 75.

A large number of bank branches have left our high streets. That loss impacts on older people, more vulnerable people and those who live in a rural community. Community transport, particularly in rural areas, is a lifeline for older people. We seek to give older people the confidence and capacity to live enriched and independent lives by expanding access to transport. The DUP supported the expansion of the SmartPass for older people, and we will continue to encourage its greater uptake. Older people need effective transport services in order to stay healthy and participate in society. Such services are especially helpful when people are unable to drive their own vehicle.

As time is limited, my colleague on the Committee for the Executive Office, Harry Harvey, will, in due course, expand our comments into other areas in which strategic planning for an ageing population is required, including healthcare.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

I call Robbie Butler.

Robbie Butler (UUP, Lagan Valley)

Your timing is immaculate, Mr Speaker; it is absolutely perfect. Thanks for that.

I thank the Member who — for the first time in 11 years, did you say? — proposed the private Member's motion, and I thank her for her services as chair of the all-party group (APG) on ageing and older people. It is an excellent APG. I also thank Age NI for providing secretariat services to the APG and for its help behind the scenes with tabling the motion.

As Mr Kingston mentioned, our population in Northern Ireland is ageing. We have experienced that shift more rapidly than any other part of the United Kingdom or the island of Ireland. Today, in Northern Ireland, one in six people is 65; by 2030, that will be one in five people; by 2040, it will be one in four; and by 2070, there will be just two working-age people for every pensioner. That is a remarkable statistic.

The demographic shift is not just about older people but will affect every one of us and impact on the very fabric of our society. Too often, however, the debate around an ageing society is misunderstood. Some try to portray it as simply calling for more services for older people. That is not the case. It is about trying to achieve a system-wide approach in order to ensure that our housing, transport, healthcare and economy are equipped to support an ageing population in a way that benefits everyone. Failing to plan now will place an unsustainable strain on public services, exacerbate inequalities and leave future generations struggling with challenges that we have failed to address.

There are multiple priorities — I will not cover them all, because some of them have been covered by the Chair of the Health Committee and by Mr Kingston and the proposer of the motion — but I will talk about two, if that is OK. Housing provision is one of the most urgent concerns — yesterday, we had a debate on the issue that involved the Communities Minister. Our social housing sector is already under immense pressure, with demand far outstripping supply, but what is often overlooked is the fact that housing must be not only available but adaptable. Many older people, including those who once owned a home, now find themselves unable to afford the modifications that are essential to living safely and independently. Without strategic investment, we risk forcing more people into inappropriate housing, hospital stays or even, prematurely, into care homes at huge financial and human cost. Quite simply, we do not build enough bungalows or adapt enough ground-floor properties. We are trying to get people to bend to the infrastructure as opposed to making the infrastructure bend to people.

We must also confront the reality of loneliness, especially here in Northern Ireland, for rural dwellers, because isolation and exclusion impact on people. Older people, particularly those over 75, are significantly more likely to experience loneliness. Poor transport infrastructure, particularly in rural areas, compounds that problem. When people are cut off from their communities, their mental and physical health can suffer. A truly age-friendly society must ensure that people remain connected physically, socially and digitally. That brings me to an issue that we have to debate at some stage: our growing push for and, arguably, our over-reliance on technology. Technology should bend to people; not the other way around. The idea that some politicians are calling for an end to paper letters for vital health appointments is, in my view, parody politics. If storm Éowyn and the subsequent electricity and broadband blackout have taught us anything —.

Mark Durkan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

I thank the Member for giving way. I am unaware of anyone actually calling for an end to letters as reminders for health appointments. However, given the prolonged and well-publicised issues with post in many constituencies, specifically mine, it is important that health trusts recognise the situation and seek alternative and additional means of reminding people — of all ages — of appointments.

Robbie Butler (UUP, Lagan Valley)

The Member is right.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

The Member has an extra minute.

Robbie Butler (UUP, Lagan Valley)

Thank you very much. I appreciate the extra minute, because this is worthy of debate. It is a noble aspiration — most people can say that they understand it — but the reality is that technology goes down, as happened at the start of my speech: I could not count on my laptop to get me through and needed my paper copy. The Member is right, if what he is talking about is a complementary service, and that digital inclusion costs little. However, it should be digital inclusion, not digital at the exclusion of everything else, which would reduce the quality of the service that the people of Northern Ireland should be getting. Digital infrastructure is not infallible, as is clear by what happened to me today. It should be viewed as complementary and not as the holy grail. Nothing can replace written correspondence when it comes to reliability and accessibility.

The Executive must embed ageing-population planning into the Programme for Government, which ensures that our public services, housing and infrastructure are not just reactive but future-proofed. If we get this right, we not only improve life for older people but create a society that will be better for us all, now and in the future.

Paula Bradshaw (Alliance, Belfast South)

I support the motion. I very much welcome the subject matter in the motion from Claire Sugden. The Alliance Party has a manifesto commitment to include in the Programme for Government outcomes for an ageing population, so of course we will support the motion, particularly that element of it.

The motion speaks of, "pressures on healthcare, social care" and other issues. Other Members will cover those, as some have already done. I wish to emphasise one element in the area, and not just because I have just passed the age of 50. We are in what is defined by the UN as the decade of healthy ageing. We need to think increasingly of our healthcare system in terms of what is known as "50-40", which is how we ensure that people who reach the age of 50 and who can reasonably expect to live for another 40 years are supported as much as possible to do so and do not live those four decades in poor health. We have already seen some reshaping of our healthcare system, and we need to move forward on our general healthcare policy and ensure that the ageing population is at the forefront of that.

More broadly, I will focus not only on the contributions of older people but on the challenges and opportunities of which the motion speaks, in the important sense that we are approaching the stage at which our population will peak. That has significant consequences for how we adapt and change resourcing in order to sustain public services and, indeed, prioritise the right things when developing legislation and public policy.

I had not included the issue in my written speech, but I welcome the comments from Mr Kingston, Mr Butler and others on the digital inclusion piece. Increasingly, we see that people can only access public services online, and we need to be mindful of the cost and complexity of accessing information and services online. People need to pay for their Wi-Fi, computer equipment and smartphones, and we need to be mindful of the fact that pensioners do not always have the funds to do so.

The Alliance Party has long publicised its concern that older people are too often seen primarily as being consumers of public services. That presents them as being passive service users rather than active citizens. Last month, a population projection by NISRA and the Office for National Statistics suggested that Northern Ireland's population will peak by as soon as 2033. NISRA emphasised that that was a projection, not a forecast, and that there was significant evidence to suggest that the date could be rather later than that. However, the peak will surely come before the middle of the century. It is already the case that, for example, the number of children in Northern Ireland is declining, and, as we speak, we are just passing the point at which there are more over-65s than under-16s living in Northern Ireland. Indeed, already, one in six of the population is aged 65 or over, and over-65s account for most of the population growth. The motion's reference to the "wider population" hints at that and the fact that it will suffer if we do not begin planning for an ageing population now.

If we consider the issues as being about not just an ageing population but population decline, we see that we need to hone in on where the strains on the public services are, as Ms Sugden referenced in her opening remarks. However, that is not the only issue. A declining population would shake many of the assumptions that we currently include in the development of public policy. That affects not only the type of health and social care services that we offer and how those are paid for but how we adapt a host of other public policy issues, such as the design of our planning system and how we develop infrastructure so that there is less pressure for new builds. As Mr Butler referenced, we need to think about what housing needs to look like to ensure that people can live comfortably at home for longer. In fact, we need to look at things like skills development as well, so that we have the health and social care workforce that is necessary to meet the demands.

We need to ensure long-term sustainability and resilience in public services. We need to ensure that our old people are allowed to contribute and participate as active citizens for as long as possible, but they need support from government in order to do so.

Sinéad McLaughlin (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

I pay tribute to Claire Sugden for tabling the motion. I know that the issue is very close to her heart, and she is a great champion for older people. I cannot believe that it is Claire's first private Member's motion after 11 years. It is welcome that she is seeking to challenge the Executive on their failure to prepare for an ageing society.

Planning for our ageing population is not just a case of ensuring that those who have contributed to our society and economy are properly recognised, supported and valued in later life. It is a challenge of immense strategic importance for our public services, given our changing population. As others have said, by 2029, people aged over 65 will outnumber those aged under 15 in our population for the first time. That will have significant implications for three areas, which I will highlight: our health service, our infrastructure and our economy.

First, our ageing population presents clear challenges for Health. As people live longer with multiple conditions, we need a health service that can manage that complexity of need.

In 2023, 38% of respondents to an Age NI survey reported difficulties in booking a GP appointment when required. We all know the challenges that face the social care system and the enormous challenges that people across Northern Ireland experience when trying to access care more widely. A health service that is fit for purpose in later life is a promise that we make to future generations, along with a care system that works for everyone and properly values the unpaid carers who prop up that health service and social care system. There is more evidence for the provision of paid carer's allowance, which my party advocates, and for the Government to develop and integrate the expertise on artificial intelligence that can help to respond to some of the challenges for our older population.

Secondly, when it comes to our infrastructure, older people must be guaranteed support when they need it and independence when they want it. That includes proper public transport that can allow older people to stay connected to their communities; public infrastructure that can address the silent killer of loneliness; measures to boost health and well-being, preventing illnesses so that fewer people need to access the health service in the first place; and building homes with adaptions to sustain and support people to have fulfilled and safe lives in their own surroundings.

Thirdly, our economy needs to work for older people. It is no surprise that some of the highest rates of economic inactivity are among workers over 50. As Age NI has pointed out, by 2070, there will be only two people of working age for every pensioner. Others have said that, but that is a really stark statistic, and we are not planning for that future, which is not that far away. Those facts will have huge implications and must be accounted for in government planning.

In Derry and across the North, far too many pensioners face poverty. In 2022-23, that accounted for around 36,000 people. Tackling it will require effort from the Government, but, most important, it will require an anti-poverty strategy to finally be published and agreed. That strategy should help to address the cost of energy for older people, improve the quality and take-up of benefits in later life and deal with the pernicious impact of the financial scams being perpetrated by bad-faith actors.

The three areas of health, infrastructure and economy have significant implications for the delivery of our public services, but are the Government really serious about our older people? Do they have a grip on the challenge and a clear plan in place to meet it? We have had commitments on age discrimination legislation in the 2011-15 Programme for Government, the 2016-2022 active ageing strategy and the 2020 New Decade, New Approach agreement. Will the current Executive be different and deliver legislation that can protect and fulfil the rights of older people? They simply must be.

In conclusion, older people —

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

Time is up.

Sinéad McLaughlin (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

— sometimes tell us that they feel invisible, dismissed or sidelined. The Executive must not fuel such perceptions through inaction and further delay.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

I call Nicola Brogan. Thank you. Your time is up.

Nicola Brogan (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle.

[Translation: Thank you, Mr Speaker.]

I did not get a sip of my water.

I thank Claire Sugden for tabling this important motion. I am glad to have the opportunity to speak on it, so I thank you, Claire, for bringing it forward.

Our society's changing age profile brings with it many challenges and, indeed, opportunities. There are issues that must be addressed regarding housing, health and social care, workforce planning and training and others. NISRA statistics released last year show the extent of the changes, with an increase during the past decade in the number of over-65s, who now account for 18% of the population. The growth is higher still in the number of over-85s, with an increase of 25% during the same period. Whilst the obvious challenge that longer life expectancy presents will be reflected in health and social care pressures, forward planning is needed in many other areas, including housing and economic issues.

Current pressures on housing demand and supply are well known in the Chamber. Population shifts will continue to affect the planning that is needed for future housing programmes. The number of households has grown as a result of demographic ageing, and an ageing population will result in increased numbers of smaller households. That means that not only will more houses and housing units be required but a range of sizes will be required to cater for smaller households and a greater variety of need. The Housing Executive has previously addressed that concern, noting in 2023 that, if the social housing sector was to address the ageing population, it would need to cater for a range of households, including single, small family and older-person households. That would mean, for example, building more category 1 accommodation for older people. There are clear knock-on effects from the provision of adequate housing for older people that will, in turn, release housing for people at different stages in life and with different needs. For example, as people age, they may wish to downsize for practical reasons or for accessibility needs, which can make suitable homes available for others.

Locally, unemployment is being reported at an all-time low, at around 2%, although there are other measures to take into account, including economic inactivity. With over 35% of 50- to 64-year-olds deemed to be economically inactive, there is the potential to grow the workforce through a range of measures, including upskilling and reskilling, flexible working and increased support for health and well-being. Employers must respond to an ever-changing environment and ensure that people are afforded real opportunities to work and to remain in work. Despite the benefits of a multigenerational workforce, poor attitudes in the workplace may act as a barrier to older workers accessing jobs and feeling valued at work. Research has shown that more than one third of those aged 50 to 69 felt that they would be at a disadvantage when applying for jobs. That is often based on a suspicion that employers might see them differently because of their age, so more work needs to be done in that regard.

Our older population must be given full consideration in departmental planning, and their needs should be reflected in the decisions that are taken and the strategies that are implemented across health and social care, housing, employment and beyond. The benefits of forward planning will help to best inform policy and practice across all of those issues. Ultimately, placing value on our older generations will reduce social exclusion and increase participation in a range of sectors across society, and society will benefit as a whole.

Harry Harvey (DUP, Strangford)

I begin by thanking Ms Sugden for bringing the motion to the Floor of the House. For the sake of time, I will focus my remarks on the need for strategic planning for an ageing population in four key areas of society, those being health provision, employment, justice and the impact of poverty.

Health and social care provision for older people is arguably the most important service accessed by the over-65 demographic. With passing years and failing health, we all invariably rely increasingly on NHS services, be they general practice or emergency care through to acute, social and palliative care. Our health needs grow in number and frequency as well as complexity as we get older. A functioning NHS is therefore pivotal for a healthy, ageing population. We are all aware of the projected increase in that cohort in society over the next number of years. The anticipated doubling of the proportion of the population that is over 85 will further increase pressure on social care and health services generally. It is vital that preparation begins now, that services that are utilised by older people are supported with ring-fenced funding and that we begin to see evidence of transformation in the provision and delivery of health and social care.

Alarmingly, provision in some key areas has reduced in recent years, as outlined by the Commissioner for Older People. The number of care home beds, for instance, has dropped by 28% since 2008, despite the number requiring a care home bed having doubled in that time. With the increased prevalence of multi-morbidity comes an ever-growing need and urgency to integrate care across services and to promote earlier and better-informed conversations about advanced care planning. Long waiting lists and limited cross-service collaboration will hinder the development of a healthy population and lead to misdiagnosis and higher levels of advanced morbidity that could otherwise be prevented.

Healthy older people who are receiving appropriate and timely healthcare can continue to play full and active roles in society and particularly in the economy, be it in employment, volunteering or childcare. Their contribution is invaluable and often brings with it a wealth of professional, work-based knowledge. The retention of such individuals in the workforce allows for effective skill transfer to younger colleagues, ensuring that such skills, which are often highly specialised, are not lost to the local economy. In policy areas such as justice and tackling poverty, it is incumbent on the Executive to ensure that the voices of older people are heard and are driving legislative protection. The Justice Minister must redouble her efforts to address emerging threats to older people, particularly in the areas of online financial crime and cold calling scams, and to build on the success of the ScamwiseNI partnership.

Age UK has shown that 65,000 households with residents aged over 60 will have insufficient income to cover essential spending this year. The Labour Government have sought to pick the pockets of pensioners and have succeeded. I am thankful to Minister Lyons for his willingness to support our older people through a winter fuel payment this year. The DUP believes that those who have paid in should get out. We will always support our older people.

Nuala McAllister (Alliance, Belfast North)

I also thank the Member for moving the motion. Sitting on the all-party group (APG), I know that she is really engaged and is leading on the issue. As a member of the APG, I cannot always attend because it conflicts with other diary commitments and other APGs, so we go where we can. However, it is one of the APGs that has the most attendance by outside stakeholders and people who are bringing forward solutions to problems in the community that are faced by older people, so it is a worthwhile APG where we can hear what the problems are and have solutions for them.

I will focus on the health and social care system. We do not have a health and social care system that meets the needs of our older population. We are seeing the reform of adult social care coming down the line, but we have been promised that for years; in fact, I believe that it was in 2012, maybe 2013, when the first changes were talked about. It was consulted on in 2014-15 and again a number of years later, and we still have not seen the effect of a lot of that change. The Alliance Party tabled a motion on social care reform in October, and we heard the Department of Health say then that reform was ongoing through work streams, but that just means more bureaucratic schemes and forms to hear the issues rather than come up with solutions. That is simply not acceptable, especially when many stakeholders have solutions, when the population is not getting any younger and when the need is so great. We need to ensure that the Department of Health in particular spends its budget to ensure that spending now saves for future years and includes investing in strategies that promote a healthy lifestyle and well-being initiatives for a healthy ageing population.

Many stakeholders get in touch with MLAs regarding motions brought to the House, and this was one of the ones with the most feedback. Age NI, for example, was in touch over the past few weeks to ensure that all MLAs were on board with the issue. It is important that we listen to the experts who engage with people on the ground every day. Age NI highlighted the current inability of the health and social care system to meet the demands placed on it, and it is likely to worsen without strategic action to support healthy ageing.

I hope that the junior Minister can take from the debate that it is about cross-departmental working. It is not just about the health service but touches on every aspect of life. Yes, health is important, but older people have much to give to society, particularly when it comes to the economy. The proposer of the motion touched on childcare: how many older people look after our children to enable their kids and grandkids to get back into the workforce?

We have an increasing number of people who are lonely. Loneliness is a disease, and it is harming and killing our older generation. Many projects across north Belfast take that issue on to tackle it at its heart, and I pay tribute to them. Good Morning North Belfast is an organisation that makes calls across the community every morning, mostly to those who live alone, to make sure that everybody is OK and see whether they need anything for the day. That is important, because they can highlight and intervene when a person needs extra help.

The CLARE project is another great initiative in north Belfast that reaches out to older people. During the pandemic, it was overwhelmed, like many others, because loneliness was exacerbated. We have local befriending services that, unfortunately, do not get the volunteers that they need. We also have a number of schools that are interacting with older people, particularly in care homes, which is a great initiative.

It is not just about Health; it is about a whole-society and Executive approach to ensure that every older person can play their best part in life. Many community hubs across Northern Ireland seek to do that by bringing healthcare providers together to assess the needs and by bringing that together with the initiatives that the Department for Communities creates in order to target and intervene at the earlier stages. However, the investment is simply not enough, because I do not believe that it is taken as a strategic approach.

As I said, I am glad that the Member proposed the motion today. As someone who was a carer for my late grandfather, I saw just how vital it is to ensure that every older person can play their part in everyday life. Whether it is through Health, Economy or social activities, we all have a role to play in ensuring that we take that approach.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

The Member's time is up.

Alan Chambers (UUP, North Down)

As the age-related Father of the House, I had to stop for a moment to convince myself that I did not have an interest to declare before speaking briefly on the motion. However, I suppose that we will all eventually benefit from anything that might hopefully emerge from the debate that could make life better for older people.

An old saying attributed to many authors is that, "A society is judged by how it cares for its elders". With advances in healthcare, life expectancy has increased considerably over recent years, and that has been a huge success story for our NHS. However, maybe that reality has been lost in some quarters of the Government's forward planning. The lack of forward planning for decades for the increasing number of elderly people who will require care packages in their advancing years has contributed to the ongoing issue of hospital beds being occupied by recovered patients who could be cared for in their home. I know that that issue is high on the Health Minister's radar.

The draft Programme for Government is wordy and aspirational across a wide range of sectors. I might have missed some comments in it, but I can find only one line that loosely relates to our ageing community. It states:

"To make life better for people of all ages ".

That clearly needs to be expanded with more detail of specific outcomes.

The motion is reasonable and worthy, and I will support it, along with my party colleagues.

Colin McGrath (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

I thank the Member for proposing the motion, which the SDLP will support. Given how important, critical, essential and relevant the motion is, please let it not be a decade before you get to make your next choice.

It is an important motion and a reality that we all need to be aware of and prepare for. How often do we hear from various leaders that the measure of a society is found in how it treats its vulnerable, including its elderly? The reality is that we are an ageing population, as has been highlighted today. At present, the proportion of those aged 65-plus is one in six; that is simply going to rise in the future, and it is anticipated that, very soon, it will become one in five.

As the Member rightly notes in the motion, that presents challenges and opportunities for public services. Although the Executive Office is responding today, the issue needs to be addressed by the whole Executive. The message that I send to the Executive today is quite simply this: if we do not invest in our older people, we are endangering our present and our future. If we do not invest in our older people and plan for the future, it will impact on our older people's quality of life and their access to healthcare and will heighten their experience of social isolation and perhaps loneliness, but it will also have an indirect impact on those who rely so heavily on them, particularly, as has been referenced many times today, for childcare.

A recent survey highlighted how more than half of households require the help of grandparents to provide some childcare. To have more than half of households relying on grandparents for childcare is a startling statistic and yet another example of our Executive's placing undue responsibility on unpaid carers. Taking cognisance of the fact that we are an ageing society, I say that what is needed right now, more than ever, is for the Executive to invest in our older people and in the various initiatives that are already in place to reduce older people's isolation and enhance their dignity. Remember that one in five people in the North currently experiences loneliness regularly. That is another startling statistic.

When I look at my constituency, I am in admiration of organisations such as the u3a and Men's Sheds. Those tireless bands of volunteers get together to try to provide some services for one another in their local communities, and they are almost peer-led. As a former youth worker, I can see what has happened since we said, many years ago, that we had to invest in young people and provide a service right across the board that they could access regardless of where they live. Given our changing demographics for age, we need to see an older people's service across the board that provides the structures and services that enable our communities to have activities to do.

Sinéad McLaughlin (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

Will the Member give way?

Colin McGrath (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

Yes.

Sinéad McLaughlin (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

Does the Member agree that the first step that the Executive Office must take, and one that it can take very quickly, is to appoint a new Commissioner for Older People? That is the least that it can do.

Colin McGrath (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

Absolutely.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

The Member has an extra minute.

Colin McGrath (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

When I was reflecting on the possibility of there being some form of older people's service that is almost like a youth service, I felt that the Older People's Commissioner, perhaps working alongside councils, would strategically be the ideal office through which to deliver such a service in order to make sure that there are services for people across the board.

Before I conclude, I ask that the Member who proposed the motion include something in her closing remarks. The motion calls for a strategy. I hate strategies. They are all that we ever get from Ministers. They are bits of paper that are pulled together that then go on a shelf, after which very little else happens. If we call for a costed action plan with delivery timescales, we can hold people to account. That is how a Government are held to account. I ask the Executive to tell us what it is that they want to do for older people, how much they are prepared to invest and how long it will take them to do it. The Opposition and the public will then be able to hold them to account by checking that the targets are being delivered against. Anything else, frankly, is just waffle.

Timothy Gaston (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Several Members congratulated Claire on bringing her first private Member's motion to the House, following 11 years as an MLA. Some expressed shock at that being the case. I take the opportunity to say that the parties on the Business Committee and you, Mr Speaker, should today reflect on the fact that all Members should get a fair crack of the whip when it comes to securing motions for debate in the Chamber. My predecessor, Jim Allister, sat in the Assembly for 13 years and never had an opportunity to bring such a motion to the House. Yes, progress has been made, but there is more to be done. I trust that the Business Committee will consider what I have said. I add my voice to those commending Claire for bringing her motion to the House.

When the Member for West Belfast brought his first private Member's motion to the House, I said that it fell to this corner of the Chamber to address issues that others have failed to address, and the same applies to today's motion. Last September, the Committee for the Executive Office heard from the Older People's Commissioner and Age NI. The story relayed to the Committee was one of a section of society that feels ignored. Age NI's lived experience survey results from 2023 painted a picture of a large section of our community that feels "sidelined", "forgotten about", "dismissed" and:

"no longer important to the health service."

Some said that they felt that they:

"were not encouraged to seek treatment"

and that the pain that they experienced was "not treated seriously". Older people have been failed by successive Executives. The pledge in the Programme for Government 2011-15 to extend age discrimination legislation did not materialise. There has been a failure to renew the active ageing strategy, which expired in 2022. There was no commitment to legislate on age discrimination in the draft Programme for Government in 2016. New Decade, New Approach promised legislation, but, again, nothing has come forward. There is no commitment to do anything in the current draft Programme for Government.

Put simply, devolution is failing to deliver for pensioners. When one looks at the statistics, it is clear that there is an urgent need to plan for an ageing population. We have heard today the figures and projections as laid out by the Northern Ireland Statistics and Research Agency in 2022. They are quite clear, so let us break them down. The number of children aged between zero and 15 is projected to decrease over the next quarter of a century, from 389,400 in mid-2022 to 299,500 in mid-2047. That is a decrease of 23·1%. The number of people aged between 16 and 64 is projected to decrease over the same period by 4·6%. By way of contrast, the number of people aged 65 and above is projected to grow from 335,400 in 2022 to 501,700 by 2047. In light of that, the case for urgent planning is clear in health, housing and infrastructure.

I will now touch on another issue that Members have, to date, overlooked: how we, as legislators, are contributing to the problem of a lack of children and young people. We need an upcoming generation to maintain our society: people who are able to keep the economy going when we are in retirement; people to operate the social care and health system on which, as we age, we will be increasingly dependent. That brings me to the greatest shame in our Province, one which is taking place not in spite of the law of the land but expressly because of it. At the end of last month, the Department of Health published stats showing an increase of 77% in the number of abortions compared with the 2020-21 figure. The most basic step that we must take to start addressing the issues of an ageing population is to stop killing our young. Decisions taken in this place have ensured that our ageing population will continue to age.

The draft Programme for Government ignores our older population. I trust that, through Executive Office Committee evidence sessions and consultation responses, the Executive will put that right when we finally get to see the agreed Programme for Government.

Maurice Bradley (DUP, East Londonderry)

Given the time, I will try to be brief. I thank my East Londonderry colleague for bringing the motion to the House. I also express my thanks to my North Antrim neighbour for his contribution a few moments ago.

As a member of the older population, I would suggest that today's motion highlights a catch-all without really identifying the immediate needs of the older population. Ageism is a difficulty that older people experience in unsuccessful employment applications, which often lead to isolation and a loss of age-gained work experiences. The Labour Government's raid on pensioners' fuel allowances has led to many making a choice between heating and eating. Many pensioners struggle to make ends meet, and, while the £100 fuel allowance from the Minister is welcome, it is not nearly enough.

Older people have complex healthcare needs. Hospital beds are often blocked through no care package being available to let patients return to their home or their loved ones. As I speak, there is a consultation to remove acute services from the Causeway Hospital, which would centralise major healthcare in the greater Belfast area and require older patients to make more costly journeys to access healthcare. The problem is exacerbated when one considers that, should Causeway lose its acute status, the nearest hospital to the Causeway Coast and Glens area would be not the Northern Trust's Antrim Hospital but the Western Trust's Altnagelvin, a hospital that is already under pressure. I learned today from an elderly friend that an important hospital appointment scheduled for this morning was cancelled because the scanner at Causeway had broken down. That person faces a wait of a further month or more to be seen.

I appreciate my East Londonderry colleague highlighting the various and many issues faced by the elderly. I hope that the motion will not be lost in a strategy and become a document sitting on a shelf but will, in fact, grow legs and start to run into something tangible.

Aisling Reilly (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I very much welcome the opportunity to respond to the motion. I agree with the wording of the Member's motion: our ageing population presents "challenges and opportunities". Addressing those is a key priority. Often, we talk about our young people and future generations and rightly so, but we cannot forget the here and now, which is today's generation. They are our family, our loved ones, our mummies and daddies, and ageing will come to every one of us. We live longer, so it is essential that government policies and services adapt to support older people to live active, independent and fulfilling lives.

When we talk about older people, we are talking about our parents, grandparents, friends and family. Around 20% of our population is aged 65 or over, and that figure is projected to rise significantly in the coming decades. The demographic shift will have an impact on key areas such as health and social care, housing, transport and the labour market. Therefore, strategic planning is vital to ensuring that our ageing population is supported.

The consultation on the draft Programme for Government closed in November. Through the PFG, we are keen to support people of all ages, including older people. Throughout the consultation process, we have made every effort to meet older people and the groups that support them to hear their views. That work has paid off: a third of those who responded to the PFG consultation were over the age of 55, so we are confident that the interests of older people will be well represented in the PFG. Work is ongoing in earnest to analyse the over 1,400 responses received and produce a consultation report for consideration by the Executive.

Furthermore, the active ageing strategy is currently overseen by the Department for Communities. The strategy was initially launched in 2016 and was due to expire in 2020. However, the Executive refreshed and extended the life of the strategy to May 2022 to allow time for the development of a new strategy in consultation with all the relevant stakeholders.

The stated purpose of the active ageing strategy is:

"to transform attitudes to, and services for, older people. It aims to increase the understanding of the issues affecting older people and promote an emphasis on rights, value and contribution."

The overall vision is to create:

"an age friendly region in which people, as they grow older, are valued and supported to live actively to their fullest potential; with their rights respected and their dignity protected."

Overall, the strategy achieved progress on a number of fronts. There has been:

"a statistically significant improvement in the confidence of people over 60 years old as measured by self-efficacy ... action to promote and support the adoption of age friendly measures across our 11 council districts, including the launch of an Age Friendly Network; hundreds of older people’s homes upgraded under the Affordable Warmth Scheme ... an improving trend in respect of the internet use of people over 50 and over 65 years old".

Since the expiry of the strategy's time frame, the Department for Communities has undertaken evaluation studies and gathered data in anticipation of the development of a successor strategy that is fit for purpose in a context that is very different from that of 2016.

Engagement with the sector is crucial to the development process to ensure that the voices of older people are heard. During the lifetime of the current strategy, there was significant stakeholder engagement with older people and their representative organisations. On the basis of that engagement and the evidence that officials had gathered, it became apparent that the existing strategic framework remained appropriate. Therefore, the Communities Minister recently decided to retain the existing strategy and to create a new action plan based on its framework. The final decisions on the timings and content of any new action plan will be subject to Executive agreement.

Legislation to prevent discrimination on the basis of age in relation to goods, facilities and services would provide protection from discrimination for a range of age groups. We recognise, however, that it is a particularly important issue for older people.

I acknowledge Ms Sugden for tabling the motion, for her clear intention to bring forward a private Member's Bill on the issue and for keeping our ageing population at the fore of Members' minds in the House and the Executive. She is a true champion, but we all need to be champions for our older population. Pam and I, along with officials from TEO, recently met Claire to discuss her proposed Bill and some of the challenges around developing legislation on the issue. It is clear that the development of the Bill will require careful consideration and work to inform its potential scope, as well as the required exemptions. Our officials continue to review the current position and are liaising with stakeholders on the development of age-related goods, facilities and services legislation.

Before I conclude, I will touch on Mr McGrath's and Ms McLaughlin's comments on the Commissioner for Older People. I can say that, following the public appointment competition, an announcement on the successful candidate for that post will be made very shortly.

We concur that our older people not only make a vital contribution to our society but add to it. It is so important that we keep working together to protect their well-being and ensure that their rights are protected and their needs are fully met.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

I call Claire Sugden to make a winding-up speech on the motion.

Claire Sugden (Independent, East Londonderry)

Thank you, Mr Speaker. When I was co-opted as an MLA nearly 11 years ago, I felt that the most important thing for me to do was get out into my constituency so that I could get to know the people whom I was representing and, equally, they could get to know me. What I was struck by in East Londonderry was the number of really active older people and the community groups that facilitate them. That has driven my interest as an MLA in advocating for older people on various issues, so much so that I established the all-party group on ageing and older people 10 years ago today. We will celebrate that milestone anniversary. I am driven by that because it is important that we look after the people who looked after us. I declare an interest in that, as should everyone. Hopefully, we will all have the honour of being able to grow old some day. I expect all of us to have access to and be entitled to our public services as we grow old with dignity.

The crux of the debate is not necessarily how our public services directly impact on older people; the debate is about the strategy that the Northern Ireland Executive must take to protect all public services in Northern Ireland. Regrettably, we see public services around us crumbling due to the fact that we have never engaged in forward planning. Look at our GP services. If we had planned in that area 10 years ago, maybe people would be able to get an appointment. As Members from around the Chamber have indicated, the issue really impacts on all aspects of our public services. I recall what the Justice Minister said yesterday about prison populations. One of the reasons for the growth of our prison population is that prisoners are living longer. It is not just about health and social care or community transport; it is about how everyone is affected. It is about supply and demand: as we are living longer, there will be more of us, so our services really need to adapt accordingly.

I will not reiterate too much the comments made by other Members, but I will try to pick up on their points. It is very much about health and social care, and we see that acutely. About 18 months ago, I found myself in Antrim Area Hospital's accident and emergency department, and what really struck me was the number of older people sitting around me who were weeping in pain. Their conditions were probably as critical as those of the people who arrived after them and those of the people who arrived before them: they were just in the queue like everybody else. Equally, as well as older people weeping, children were crying at 2.00 am. I cannot emphasise enough that the debate is not just about the older people but about everyone in Northern Ireland. If we do not get a grip on the fact that we have an ageing population and on the demand that that will place on our public services, we will see that more and more.

I am really pleased that all parties have indicated that they will support the motion, but it includes a specific ask about what should be included in the Programme for Government. I appreciate that the junior Minister indicated that over one third of the consultation responses were from people over 55, and I am not surprised by that as older people are one of the most engaged and active groups in our society. However, I hope that that is not all and that we see a tangible outcome. To an extent, I would be content if we even paid lip service to that, because, at least, then we would be thinking about the future and about Northern Ireland. It is not enough to say that it is for all ages, because what I am raising is specifically and critically about age and our ageing population. The junior Ministers should feel free to intervene on that if the First Ministers have given them the authority to do so. Will we see a specific outcome-based ask in the Programme for Government so that we can start planning for this now? I am mindful that the mandate is due to end in two years and that what we can do in that time is limited. I appreciate that the Executive have already set out their policies and legislation, but let us get the wheels in motion so that we can start moving forward. The issue will not end with the current Government; it is an issue that we need to take forward with consistency.

I appreciate Robbie Butler's comments and those of other Members who acknowledged that it is not just about older people but about our wider system and services. Given that, because of d'Hondt, this is the first time that I have had the opportunity to lead on a motion — it is not the first time that I have spoken on a motion; I hope that Members realise that — I did not want to look at it as one specific issue but at how we, as a Government and as an Assembly, can do better in taking our services forward.

Every week, we hear about how this place is not performing. If we looked at it strategically, however, we could probably fix a lot of the problems that we see in Northern Ireland. That would not happen overnight — of course it will not — but it would happen in 10 years. I have been here for 11 years, and, sadly, all the problems that we are discussing now are the ones that we discussed 11 years ago, and they have got worse. That is why we need to start having those conversations now.

I appreciate Alliance's commitment to consider the older population. If everybody supports the motion, including the parties who have Members at the Executive table, we should get an outcome. We should get the issue into the Programme for Government and start moving forward. I do not want this to be a debate that is recorded with that being all we do with it. As the Member who led the debate, I will follow up the actions that the Assembly is likely to support. The matter may not be in the specific remit of those who sit at the Executive table, but, as discussed, it is a cross-departmental issue and everyone at the table has a voice, so I encourage them to take it forward. Anything that Members can do to encourage their Ministers to do that would be really helpful.

Ms McLaughlin and the junior Minister referred to age discrimination legislation. There has been a conversation about that for a number of years. We have had promises and commitments to take it forward, but it has not happened. As the independent Member, I hope to make legislation happen, subject to the Speaker's say-so. It is critical, given that we are the only region in the UK and Ireland not to have that legislation in place. There is a model that works.

Robbie Butler (UUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for giving way; I hope that she will forgive me. I raise the point that Mr Gaston made about devolution failing: devolution has not failed. Has the failure to have government here for five years of the past eight — of the Member's 11 years, there has been government in only six, and they have never been joined together — not been the biggest barrier to progress in Northern Ireland in the recent political past?

Claire Sugden (Independent, East Londonderry)

I appreciate that. I agree wholeheartedly. If people ask me why this place does not have the ability to do anything, I say that it is because we have never had the consistency to take things forward. If this is about improvement and change for everyone in Northern Ireland, we have to have that consistency. I will digress a little to say that devolution is the only show in town — there is nothing else — so we either have this place or we have nothing. We saw that during the six years of no government in Northern Ireland, and people need to wake up to that reality.

I will come back to age discrimination legislation. That is where we, as MLAs, really have power. We are often told how useless we are, but every one of us has the ability to write legislation and take forward things that will improve the lives of people in Northern Ireland. This is one way in which I want to do that, and I am really keen to work with the Executive Office on it, because I recognise that a lot of what I propose is very much the work that began with Peter Robinson and Martin McGuinness. We will have to look at other ways of doing it, and, indeed, we have an opportunity to look at how legislation has worked or perhaps not worked in other jurisdictions and to improve it for Northern Ireland. However, if the legislation does nothing more than recognise in statute the value of older people, is that not enough? Hopefully, however, it will do more than that.

There were other, similar comments. It is about how things directly affect our older people. We heard that from Nicola Brogan, Harry Harvey and Nuala McAllister. Nuala talked to the community and voluntary groups, which is key. I outlined at the start of the debate how my interest in the issue was driven by community and voluntary groups, and we need to listen to them. They are the people who ultimately empower us to stand here and do all the good things that we can in the Chamber. That is critical. The Opposition, from official to unofficial, also talked about community groups on the ground. In u3a, we have a similar group on the north coast. Again, those people very much drive my motivation on this.

I agree with Colin McGrath: this cannot just be a strategy that sits on a shelf. It is the only thing we can get right now: there is nothing else. I appreciate that the junior Minister says that we have a strategy and it is likely to continue. However, it is not mentioned at all in the Programme for Government. That is a failure of responsibility, a failure to recognise the people whom we represent. "All ages" does not cut it: it is not enough, particularly because of the impact of that age group in itself.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

The Member's time is up.

Claire Sugden (Independent, East Londonderry)

Thank you.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

I know that you have waited 11 years, Claire, but you had two pops at it. In any event, thank you for bringing the motion to the House so well.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved:

That this Assembly recognises our ageing population and the challenges and opportunities that this presents for public services; acknowledges the vital contributions of older people while recognising the pressures on healthcare, social care, housing, transport and the economy; notes that failure to plan strategically will place unsustainable strain on public services, exacerbate inequalities and impact on the wider population; calls on the Executive to develop a cross-departmental strategy to ensure that services are adapted and resourced to meet the needs of an ageing society; and further calls on the First Minister and deputy First Minister to embed ageing population planning in the final Programme for Government 2024-27, to ensure long-term sustainability and resilience in public services.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

The Business Committee has arranged to meet at 1.00 pm. I propose therefore, by leave of the Assembly, to suspend the sitting until 2.00 pm. On return, there will be Questions for Oral Answer to the Minister of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs. Declan McAleer will ask the first question.

The sitting was suspended at 1.01 pm.

On resuming (Mr Deputy Speaker [Dr Aiken] in the Chair) —

Oral Answers to Questions — Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs

Declan McAleer (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

1. Mr McAleer asked the Minister of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs for an update on the bovine TB eradication strategy. (AQO 1615/22-27)

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

As Members will be aware, Brian Dooher, Chief Veterinary Officer (CVO), was recently asked by me to carry out a comprehensive review of bovine tuberculosis in Northern Ireland. That review, which was published in November, considered the actions contained in the 2022 bovine TB eradication strategy, along with a number of new proposals brought forward by the CVO. The proposals that he has identified are based on three key pillars: the importance of ensuring that we all — government and industry — work in partnership to reduce disease levels; proposals to limit and prevent the spread of TB from cattle to cattle; and proposals to address the transmission of bovine TB from wildlife to cattle.

I immediately agreed with one of the CVO's recommendations to set up a new TB partnership steering group to work with officials in the development of a new delivery plan. The new group has now met on two occasions to consider the CVO's review, which will include remaining actions from the 2022 strategy. The group will first focus on identifying the immediate priorities for action within the review and the steps needed to put them in place. I have asked that officials report to me on the draft delivery plan by the end of March. It is my intention that the new plan will clearly set out our priorities to be taken forward in the time ahead to tackle the unacceptable levels of bovine TB in Northern Ireland.

Declan McAleer (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

I thank the Minister for his response. Minister, at a recent budget briefing, it was indicated to the Committee that TB reactors in cattle will cost in the region of £46·5 million in this financial year. I believe that that is in the region of a £10 million or £10·5 million shortfall. How does the Department propose to bridge that gap?

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

There is a significant cost associated with bovine TB in Northern Ireland, particularly for farmers. I understand the mental health impact that this is having on farmers across Northern Ireland, but it is also having an impact on my Department. It is no secret that, in the Budget settlement for the next financial year, we got very low levels of funding to take forward the compensation rates for TB. However, I engaged with the previous Finance Minister and got an assurance that monitoring round bids will be prioritised towards TB compensation. I am grateful for that, and I will continue to work with the Finance Minister so that we can do the compensation for farmers but also take forward the wider eradication strategy associated with TB.

Sian Mulholland (Alliance, North Antrim)

Minister, I particularly like the fact that you referenced the mental health of farmers in dealing with this crisis. What else can farmers do to reduce the risk of TB on their farms?

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

I recognise that, when it comes to tackling TB, there needs to be a holistic approach, and that is why we are taking forward a three-pillared approach of people, cattle and wildlife. We are engaging with stakeholders so that we can bring forward that delivery plan very soon. However, there are actions that farmers can take. That does not negate the role that my Department can, and should, play in relation to this, but farmers can play a role, particularly around biosecurity by, for example, reducing the risk from slurry and farmyard manure, the risk from wildlife, the risk from neighbouring herds and the risk from buying in cattle. Those are examples that I see on farms across Northern Ireland where farmers are taking forward that good practice. We need to mainstream that and work with everyone so that we can drive down TB. I am determined to do that in partnership with others.

William Irwin (DUP, Newry and Armagh)

In other regions of the UK and in the Republic of Ireland, they have had to deal with the culling of wildlife before seeing a reduction in TB in cattle. Therefore, does the Minister accept that TB in wildlife will have to be dealt with if TB is to be eradicated in Northern Ireland?

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

I accept that we have to consider wildlife as part of a holistic strategy on TB. I am also conscious of the judicial review in relation to the previous wildlife intervention and the outcome of that. Going forward, as I have said, there will be three pillars to our work to eradicate TB in Northern Ireland, and those are people, cattle and wildlife. I am very much committed to that. As part of that, we will move forward with a consultation on wildlife intervention in respect of TB.

Diana Armstrong (UUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Minister, will you expand on your assessment of the financial impact on farmers who have to continue feeding, milking and looking after their herds for an indeterminate time after a positive test for TB?

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

The Member touches upon an important issue: it is about not just the financial impact on farmers with regard to compensation but the wider issue around that. There is also an environmental issue in terms of greenhouse gas emissions as a result of overstocking. That is something that I am determined to deal with. I acknowledge those issues and the pressure that they put on farmers. I know that some people feel that we are perhaps moving too fast on this, but I want that delivery plan from the stakeholder group at the end of March, and I want to announce the way forward in April. This is so important to the farming community. That is why we are moving at pace. I assure all Members in the House that the way forward is based upon science and evidence, and it is important that we take all our decisions on the basis of both.

Paula Bradshaw (Alliance, Belfast South)

2. Ms Bradshaw asked the Minister of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs for an update on the implementation of the Climate Change Act (Northern Ireland) 2022. (AQO 1616/22-27)

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

I have delivered progress across a number of areas. Regulations that place climate change reporting duties on specified public bodies came into operation on 3 May 2024. Regulations that set in law Northern Ireland's first three carbon budgets for the periods 2023-27, 2028-2032 and 2033-37 and a new emissions reduction target for 2040 were approved by the Assembly on 10 December last year and set the statutory framework for our pathway to net zero.

A 10-week public consultation on the establishment of a just transition commission closed on 20 January 2025. My Department is analysing the feedback received, and the findings from the consultation will be used to inform the content of the final regulations that will establish the commission. Once the regulations are in place to establish the commission in law, a recruitment competition to appoint members to the commission will be undertaken via a public appointments process.

Now that our first carbon budget has been set, I will bring forward as soon as possible a draft of Northern Ireland's first climate action plan to Executive colleagues and seek their agreement to publish the plan for a 16-week statutory public consultation. I am fully committed to delivering a climate action plan that is transformational, evidence-based, informed by stakeholders and in line with my commitment to a just transition.

The requirement to establish a Northern Ireland climate commissioner sits under the Executive Office. The regulations to establish that body have been approved by the First Minister and deputy First Minister, and a draft has been laid before the Assembly. A positive vote in the Assembly will be required to approve the regulations. The Business Committee will, hopefully, schedule the debate and a vote on the matter in due course.

Paula Bradshaw (Alliance, Belfast South)

Thank you, Minister, for your answer to my question. Will you outline the benefits of having a climate commissioner here in Northern Ireland?

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

The Northern Ireland climate commissioner will be a key part of a world-leading climate advice structure here in Northern Ireland and will work alongside the just transition commission, the Climate Change Committee (CCC) and the Office for Environmental Protection (OEP). The Northern Ireland climate commissioner will ensure that issues specific to Northern Ireland are fully considered when charting our transition to net zero. We recognise that the science that we rely on in relation to climate change is constantly evolving, and the climate commissioner will have a key role to play in amplifying the key messages to ensure that new approaches and policies reflect best practice globally. The Northern Ireland climate commissioner will be a vital champion for positive climate action here by closely monitoring our delivery and making recommendations so that we can maintain momentum towards net zero.

Jonathan Buckley (DUP, Upper Bann)

Minister, your Department's lack of action on critical issues affecting the Northern Ireland farming community is nothing short of disgraceful. While you push ahead with costly net zero measures, you fail to address a TB crisis that is affecting farming families, and you fail to get to grips with an ammonia strategy that is strangling Northern Ireland agriculture. How do you justify the continuation of those issues whilst real challenges go unhindered? Will you finally put Northern Ireland's farming families first when considering how your Department deals with the real crisis that they face?

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

The Member raises a number of issues. What I am doing is taking forward the will of the Assembly. The Assembly voted unanimously at Final Stage in 2022 for the climate change legislation. I am also realising the opportunities from decarbonisation. What I do not do is negate the other challenges in our society, particularly those for farming. I have spoken quite a lot about TB and the actions that we are taking to address it. On ammonia, there is significant ongoing engagement with stakeholders. What I am doing is based upon science and evidence and the need to stay on the right side of the law. It is important that I do that. These are difficult issues, and I will continue to lead on them.

Maurice Bradley (DUP, East Londonderry)

3. Mr Bradley asked the Minister of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs to outline any contact that his Department has had with the UK Government to discuss reversing the decision to introduce an inheritance tax on farms worth over £1 million. (AQO 1617/22-27)

Justin McNulty (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

6. Mr McNulty asked the Minister of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs for his assessment of the impact that changes to agricultural property relief will have on farming families. (AQO 1620/22-27)

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

With your permission, Mr Deputy Speaker, I will group questions 3 and 6 for answer.

I met the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland in October last year to emphasise my concerns about the impact of the planned inheritance tax changes on our family farms. A letter was issued to the Chancellor of the Exchequer on 18 November 2024 by the First Minister, the deputy First Minister, the Minister of Finance and me that raised concerns about the disproportionately adverse impact on family farms in Northern Ireland compared with that in other jurisdictions, given that Northern Ireland has some of the highest agricultural land prices in the UK and Ireland. I have on many occasions expressed my concerns to devolved Agriculture Ministers, as well as to the Minister of State at the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA), Daniel Zeichner, who responded to me in January of this year with a letter, in which he confirmed that he had shared with the Chancellor and her office the analysis that my Department had undertaken on the impact of the inheritance tax changes. I received a response on 11 February 2025 from the Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury stating that the UK Government believe that their reforms to agricultural property relief and business property relief get the balance right between supporting farms and fixing public finances in a fair way. I disagree.

In December 2024, my Department undertook further analysis of the impact of the inheritance tax changes on local farms. That analysis built on the original analysis that had been undertaken in November. As well as land value, it took into account the value of buildings, residential property, livestock and machinery. The analysis found that just under half of all farms in Northern Ireland have agricultural and business property values exceeding £1 million and that those farms account for around 80% of the total land that is farmed in Northern Ireland. That staggering statistic highlights why there is such overwhelming fear in our farming community.

There are actions that farmers can take to reduce future tax liability and mitigate the impact of the changes, but those will depend on individual circumstances. Farmers are encouraged to seek tax advice from an appropriate professional before taking any decisions. I wrote to the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs on 11 February this year to voice, once again, my concerns about the impact of the policy change on our local farmers and to suggest a potential mitigation measure for the planned changes to inheritance tax. I asked that he raise it with the Chancellor of the Exchequer. I will do all that I can within my remit as AERA Minister to support the farming community in Northern Ireland on the issue.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

Minister, thank you for your remarks. Before I call Maurice to ask a supplementary question, I ask that you keep your responses to about two minutes, because we have a lot of questions to get through. You can ask for an extra minute, however.

Maurice Bradley (DUP, East Londonderry)

I will be brief, because the Minister has answered my supplementary question, which was about what he was doing to mitigate the potential impact of inheritance tax changes on family-run farms, so well done.

[Laughter.]

Justin McNulty (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

Will the Minister place in the public domain all written correspondence and documentation that his Department has issued on alleviating the stress and uncertainty that the decision has caused farm businesses throughout the North?

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

Yes.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

OK. That was good.

Andrew McMurray (Alliance, South Down)

What is the Minister doing in his Department to encourage good succession planning on our family farms?

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

Minister, you have two minutes in which to respond.

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

Thank you. I will stick to my two minutes. The Farming for the Generations pilot scheme, which is included in the sustainable agriculture programme, will be the policy instrument for supporting generational renewal. I am pleased to say that the scheme, which was launched in autumn 2024, has already proven to be very popular, with strong take-up reported. Based on previous experience of succession-planning interventions, the Farming for the Generations pilot scheme is an initial programme that will provide evidence for the development of the main scheme. It seeks to identify the key barriers and to propose financial interventions, thereby developing solutions that are scalable. I have asked my officials to expedite the development of the main Farming for the Generations scheme. That will be done in co-design with stakeholders, including the Young Farmers' Clubs of Ulster (YCFU), and will actively consider the provision of financial support. Last week, I put on record in the House my personal commitment to ensuring that the new Farming for the Generations scheme is open for delivery to young farmers and new entrants by autumn 2026.

Colin Crawford (UUP, North Antrim)

Minister, will you outline the specific material matters pertaining to family farms in Northern Ireland? Do you agree that there will be a significantly greater threat to farm and food security in Northern Ireland than in anywhere else in the UK?

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

Thank you, Mr Crawford, for your important question. My Department's analysis clearly demonstrates that there will be a disproportionate and detrimental impact in Northern Ireland, because we are made up of a patchwork quilt of family farms, and that is where the impact will be felt. I plead again from the Dispatch Box for the UK Government to rethink the policy. They need to focus on the people who take advantage of agricultural property relief (APR) and business property relief (BPR) by buying farms as a tax avoidance measure. The money can be found by doing that, not by endangering the future of farming across the UK.

Measures can be put in place to protect family farms while dealing with people who abuse the system. I have outlined that fact to the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, and I will be happy to lay the correspondence in the Assembly Library so that Members can see it. The UK Government have an opportunity to listen to the views not only of farmers but of the Assembly and from across the UK and to find a way forward on the issue that protects family farms.

Aoife Finnegan (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Is any sector affected more than others?

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

I will write to the Member to share my Department's two bits of analysis. The detailed differential impact analysis, which shows the different sectors affected, states that the dairy sector is most likely to be affected more than others in Northern Ireland. That is obviously a concern for me. Hopefully, that analysis, alongside others, will contribute to an informed debate on the issue. I am disappointed that Treasury continues to rely on its analysis, because my strong view is that it is incorrect.

Nick Mathison (Alliance, Strangford)

4. Mr Mathison asked the Minister of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs for an update on progress on the roll-out of the Farming with Nature package. (AQO 1618/22-27)

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

The Farming with Nature package is one of my top priorities. It is my ambition to scale up nature-friendly farming, with all farmers being rewarded for delivering environmental public goods alongside food production and that Farming with Nature will become an important enterprise on farms. The package will be introduced through a phased approach, with the aim of increasing the extent, quality and connectivity of habitats in the farmed landscape in and outside designated sites and priority habitat areas.

I plan to launch the first phase of the package — the Farming with Nature transition scheme — later this year. It will include measures to increase the extent of habitats and connectivity on-farm. They include planting new hedgerows, farmland tree planting, creating riparian buffer strips and retention of winter stubble and multi-species winter cover crops.

I plan to say more about the Farming with Nature package at the Balmoral show, which I am looking forward to, together with opening dates and future phases, subject to business cases and legislation being in place.

Nick Mathison (Alliance, Strangford)

I thank the Minister for his answer and look forward to further announcements.

The Minister will be aware of the leading work that Riverside Farm in Ballyalton, which falls within the new Strangford constituency boundaries, has been delivering through nature-friendly farming practice. Will he join me on a visit to the farm to see its excellent work at first hand?

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

That is probably the first invite of this calendar year to make a farm visit. I am delighted to accept it, because making such visits is a highlight of the job. I look forward to taking up the invitation.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

Minister, you will be aware that a significant number of farms that had done a fair bit of tree planting have been affected by ash dieback. How might the scheme help those farms to replace trees that were lost in significant numbers and at substantial cost?

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

I am aware of that issue, because forestry sits in my Department. The Farming with Nature transition scheme, which will come out this year, is an actions-based scheme and will help with some element of the problem. The further schemes that will roll out next year will have a wider implication for it. The Forest Service also has grant schemes for tree planting. There are quite a lot of schemes to support people with that, but I am conscious of the prevalence of ash dieback, and it is obviously of concern. The Forest Service is working through that, particularly in the context of the recent storms.

Joanne Bunting (DUP, Belfast East)

5. Ms Bunting asked the Minister of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs, further to the BBC ‘Spotlight’ broadcast on 3 December 2024 regarding untreated sewage overflowing from the waste water infrastructure, to outline what action his Department is taking around testing water. (AQO 1619/22-27)

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

Water quality in Belfast lough is assessed in multiple ways by my Department. Under the Quality of Bathing Water Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2008, bathing water quality in Belfast lough is assessed weekly throughout the bathing season, which is from 1 June to 15 September, at Helen’s Bay, Crawfordsburn, Brompton, which is a candidate bathing water site, Ballyholme and Groomsport and in adjacent inflowing rivers. Shellfish water protected areas (SWPAs) in Belfast lough are also frequently monitored for microbial contamination and chemical pollutants.

The general water quality of Belfast lough is assessed under the Water Environment (Water Framework Directive) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2017. The lough is assessed for several biological quality indicators and for nutrient and oxygen levels. Monitoring is also undertaken for chemical pollutants. Those parameters contribute to the assessment of the ecological and chemical status of Belfast lough, the results of which are published in official statistics by my Department.

Joanne Bunting (DUP, Belfast East)

I thank the Minister for the answer. The same programme highlighted the fact that some of the matter, when it overflows, flows into the Connswater river. The Minister will be aware that that is where the Hollow is and that events are held there and children play there. The Minister said that tests are held frequently, but he did not give us any indication of how frequently. Will the Minister elaborate on the frequency of testing? What assurances can he give the people of east Belfast that the area and rivers in which their children play are safe?

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

I thank the Member for her question. I need specific areas, because Belfast lough is a large area. We can write to the Member with detail around that, because it is important to outline that to you. It is also important that I comment on the water quality more broadly in Belfast lough, my concerns around that and what we need to do to fix it.

Joanne Bunting (DUP, Belfast East)

My question was specifically on the Connswater river.

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

Thank you. I will write to the Member about the Connswater river specifically. The water quality in Belfast lough is a concern for me. One of the key contributors to that — the Member referred to it as "matter" — is sewage. There is a need to invest in the waste water infrastructure, but that is the responsibility of the Infrastructure Minister. My responsibility in the Chamber during Question Time is the environment. I have made it clear that the regulatory regime under which Northern Ireland Water operates — the statement of regulatory principles and intent (SORPI), which has been in place since 2007 — is not fit for purpose. I am minded to withdraw from SORPI so that Northern Ireland Water can be put on a par with all of the other polluters in Northern Ireland. That is important, particularly as it would mean that, with an understanding that everyone was being treated fairly, I could look farmers in the eye.

Alan Chambers (UUP, North Down)

Does the Minister agree that, until statutory and government agencies get their houses in order to meet the climate and environmental challenges adequately — I think especially about the developing crisis in Belfast lough — it will prove difficult to ask those involved in private business, particularly in the agri-industry, to cooperate?

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

My view from the Dispatch Box is that polluters who are polluting Northern Ireland's waterways, be that Belfast lough, Lough Neagh, Lough Erne or elsewhere, need to get their house in order. The sewage and other pollution that is happening in Northern Ireland is not acceptable. I am surprised that there is not more outrage about it, because water quality is being affected. People need to step up and sort out their operations, because, as far as I am concerned, it is not acceptable.

Robbie Butler (UUP, Lagan Valley)

7. Mr Butler asked the Minister of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs for an update on the arrangements for transferring poultry litter to the Republic of Ireland. (AQO 1621/22-27)

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

Poultry litter is a mixture of poultry manure and bedding material that is derived from commercial poultry houses. It is classified as a category 2 animal by-product, and it must be disposed of in compliance with certain conditions in order to mitigate disease risks. It can be moved to Ireland only under certain conditions. The exporter must obtain permission from the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (DAFM) by way of a licence to move the poultry litter to Ireland. Once permission from DAFM — the Department in the South — has been obtained, the exporter must request an authorised private veterinary practitioner to verify and certify the poultry litter to Ireland on the relevant export health certificate. In 2024, Northern Ireland consigned 111,563 tons of poultry litter to Ireland out of a total annual production of chicken manure of approximately 380,000 tons.

Due to the current disease outbreak of a highly pathogenic avian influenza in Northern Ireland, a number of restriction zones have been established. Information on the zones can be obtained from the DAERA website. The export of poultry litter from those zones is currently prohibited. There has been no recent change in the arrangements for moving poultry litter to Ireland from outside avian influenza restriction zones.

Robbie Butler (UUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Minister for his answer. There is no doubt that the poultry and egg industry is already stifled by moribund planning and growth restrictions. Can the industry be confident of the Minister's support regarding further unnecessary bureaucracy not being included in the transportation of that litter? Since the Minister mentioned bird flu — I thank him for that — will he give us an update on bird flu-related matters?

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

I thank the Member for his important questions. It is essential that we have transparency and accurate information about the movement of poultry litter and manure to the Republic of Ireland. That is needed for animal health and disease control reasons, as well as environmental reasons. DAFM, which is my Department's counterpart in the South, has requirements and systems in place for those purposes. If farmers want to transfer poultry litter and manure to the Republic of Ireland, it is reasonable and fair that they meet the requirements in the South. Those requirements have a purpose and are not simply an exercise in regulation. If there are specific concerns from a specific organisation, I am happy to consider them, and I will respond in writing.

You raised another issue that relates to avian influenza. I am concerned about the developing situation and met stakeholders this morning on the issue. The message that I want to send to the general public in Northern Ireland is twofold: one is the importance of biosecurity, and the other is about asking farmers to report any concerns very promptly to us so that my Department can respond. We continue to work with and support the industry on the situation, but it is one that, unfortunately, England has been enduring since the end of November. We are working at pace in the Department to respond in conjunction with the industry.

David Honeyford (Alliance, Lagan Valley)

What is the impact of high levels of nutrients on our local environment, Minister?

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

The impact of high levels of nutrients specifically relates to water quality. That is why we are working with the industry on a way forward. I thank those who are working on some of the initiatives that were brought forward to manage poultry litter, but we need to do a lot more in that regard. That is why we will consult on the nutrients action programme in the spring.

William Irwin (DUP, Newry and Armagh)

In relation to environmental issues, the Northern Ireland Environment Agency's (NIEA) response time to planning applications is dismal, to say the least. What plans does the Minister have to provide more staff to deal with the current backlog?

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

I am aware of the challenges that relate to Northern Ireland Water being a statutory consultee in planning. We have put staff and new processes in place, but we need to do better. We are looking to recruit additional staff so that we can turn applications around more swiftly. I encourage people who are putting applications in to make sure that all the relevant information is there so that we do not have to reconsult. I know that we need to move on the issue. We want to progress many issues in my Department, and that is one of them.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

I call Danny Donnelly. Danny, you will probably get only your first question in.

Danny Donnelly (Alliance, East Antrim)

8. Mr Donnelly asked the Minister of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs for an update on any action taken by his Department to improve water quality. (AQO 1622/22-27)

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

I am pleased to report that the implementation of the Lough Neagh report and action plan and the environmental improvement plan has been progressing since I received Executive approval for them last year. Those reports contain a comprehensive range of actions to secure longer-term improvements in water quality across Northern Ireland and tackle blue-green algae blooms. Actions being taken forward include a review of the nutrients action programme, as well as small business research initiatives on the sustainable utilisation of livestock slurry: that is the key initiative for the future of Lough Neagh.

Grant support for the water quality improvement projects has been provided to community groups through the environment fund. A recent review of the third cycle river basin management plan for 2021-27 has been completed, and, subject to Executive approval, I hope to publish the plan in the near future. My Department continues to deliver the soil nutrient health scheme, which provides farmers with soil analysis and training to improve nutrient management and water quality. In addition, the sustainable catchment programme continues to provide advisory farm visits and capital grant support to carry out works on water quality. I am committed to working in partnership across government, the public and private sectors and wider society to improve water quality in Northern Ireland but would stress that there are no quick fixes and that collective action is essential.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

I call Danny Donnelly for a very quick supplementary question.

Danny Donnelly (Alliance, East Antrim)

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I thank the Minister for that answer. What is the Minister doing to address waste water pollution?

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

I am working to fulfil my Department's statutory obligations under the Urban Waste Water Treatment Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2007. That will include the publication of the outstanding 2019 and 2023 reviews of sensitive areas and, subject to Executive approval, the identification of the inner Belfast lough shellfish water protected area as a sensitive area. The proposed sensitive area designation will mean additional requirements in respect of the treatment of waste water discharges to the shellfish water protected area. DAERA officials are liaising with their counterparts in the Department for Infrastructure to discuss the implications of that identification for DFI and Northern Ireland Water. I am acutely aware of the need to progress that.

I am also on the record about my position on SORPI. I am minded to withdraw from SORPI, and I have agreed an eight-week period of engagement with the Department for Infrastructure and Northern Ireland Water to inform my final decision on the Northern Ireland Environment Agency's withdrawal from SORPI and the next steps. I expect that engagement to be initiated by my Department shortly.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

That ends the period for listed questions. We will now move on to 15 minutes of topical questions.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

T1. Mr McGlone asked the Minister of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs, after noting that he is probably aware that, even yesterday, people in rural areas were, as a result of the recent storm, moving into their fifth week without fibre broadband, which can be used for various basic communications and business and medical purposes, whether, given that the Department invested considerable amounts of money into Project Stratum, he is cooperating in any way with the Department for the Economy, which is the project's oversight management body, to advise on customer services and the standards that customers should expect in view of the high levels of public moneys that have been invested in that project, to ensure that the likes of that do not happen again. (AQT 1071/22-27)

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

Thank you, Patsy, for your question. Whilst I recognise that the lead responsibility for that will sit with the Department for the Economy, I recognise your concerns, because broadband, particularly in rural areas, is vital so that people can do their jobs and conduct their business, whether that means being able to work from home or doing associated tasks. I get that. I will engage with the Economy Minister off the back of the concerns that you have raised to see how we will learn lessons about provision from the storm response. I am conscious that such storms are now becoming a bit more frequent.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

Thank you for that, Minister. You will forgive me for saying that, "We will learn lessons" is probably one of the most abused phrases in the lexicon of the Civil Service. I do not anticipate that you will do this, but, given that your Department invested considerable amounts of money in that project, as did DFE and, indeed, the UK Government, will you be able to report back, or will it be left to the Department for the Economy to report on what future-proofing measures will be taken to ensure that people are not left stranded in a similar way, especially those in our more isolated rural areas?

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

I am conscious of the vires of my Department and its responsibilities, but I get the issues that you raise. I will consider them. It is important that we learn lessons. Far too often in Northern Ireland, we do not learn lessons. We need to learn lessons. There are many examples of where we should learn lessons, with Lough Neagh being one of them. I will engage with the Economy Minister and write to you on that. If a meeting is required, I am happy to do that.

Kate Nicholl (Alliance, Belfast South)

It is fitting that lower-sixth students from Methodist College Belfast are in the Public Gallery for this question.

Kate Nicholl (Alliance, Belfast South)

T2. Ms Nicholl asked the Minister of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs to detail the action being taken to deal with blue-green algae on Lough Neagh, an issue that young environmentalists often raise with her. (AQT 1072/22-27)

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

Thank you, Kate, for your question on a serious issue not just for me but for the people of Northern Ireland and, hopefully, for the people in the Gallery.

At the outset, it is important to state that, on the basis of the science and evidence that I have reviewed to date, it is, unfortunately, highly likely that we will see yet another reoccurrence of blue-green algae on Lough Neagh this year and in future years. The fact that the largest fresh-water lake in these islands has been allowed to get into that state ought to be a wake-up call for us all. It is a sad and stark example of the impact of climate change and a reminder of the need to get the balance right between growing the economy and safeguarding our environment. Lots of cruel and hard lessons are to be learned from Lough Neagh.

After securing Executive agreement for the Lough Neagh report in July last year, my Department has been working to drive forward the implementation of the action plan, working in conjunction with other Departments, such as Infrastructure and Justice. The implementation of the plan requires significant investment. Unfortunately, as the draft Budget stands, I am underfunded by approximately £2 million for delivery in the next financial year. Despite that, the implementation of the plan is progressing. To date, 10 actions have been delivered, and 23 are progressing. The Lough Neagh report complements and supports the actions and targets in the environmental improvement plan, which is key to taking a strategic approach to the issues facing Lough Neagh in the context of the wider catchment area.

In conclusion, I stress that there are no quick fixes. The situation was decades in the making and will be decades in the fixing, such is the depth and complexity of the problem at Lough Neagh.

Kate Nicholl (Alliance, Belfast South)

I thank the Minister for his answer. I know how much energy and work he and his officials are putting into the matter. What discussions has he had about community ownership of the bed and soil of Lough Neagh?

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

I had constructive meetings with the Earl of Shaftesbury on 21 February and 17 July last year, when we discussed a range of issues in connection with Lough Neagh, including ownership and the earl's recent comments that he would like to transfer his estate's ownership of Lough Neagh into community ownership. While the scope of my officials' current work and the Lough Neagh action plan is essentially on what goes into the lough, I have made it clear that I am personally in favour of community ownership of the lough.

The confirmation from the Earl of Shaftesbury, when we met last year, that, if the right model with a robust structure, stakeholders and plan were in place along with the right funding model, there would be no associated cost to transferring the ownership of the lough bed and soils was welcome. There are, however, many hurdles to overcome, including, most especially, the definition of what constitutes "the community". Good work is being undertaken by many bodies on the future of Lough Neagh, such as the Lough Neagh Partnership, the National Trust, Development Trusts NI, Queen's University and more. I welcome that, and we will continue to engage as necessary.

There is lots to do in order to improve water quality in Lough Neagh and elsewhere, and that is my primary focus. Collaboration and collective action in addressing the environmental challenges that face the lough is essential. Only by working together can we achieve the changes that are desperately needed.

Kellie Armstrong (Alliance, Strangford)

T3. Ms K Armstrong asked the Minister of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs whether there has been any assessment of the damage caused to forests and country parks by storm Éowyn, which caused a lot of damage across Northern Ireland, including trees falling on to roads. (AQT 1073/22-27)

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

Thank you for your question, Kellie. That issue has been raised often in recent weeks. Many of my Department's forests suffered significant damage as a result of the storm, and its impacts were widespread across the estate. The forests that have been particularly affected include Drum Manor, Gosford, Tardree, Mount Stewart, Ballysallagh, Tollymore, Castlewellan, Lough Navar, Favour Royal, Mullaghfad and Kesh.

Forest Service's assessment of the extent of woodlands damage is based on initial reports from local managers, neighbours and the general public, as well as drone footage and aerial surveillance that was undertaken in the week following the storm across the forest estate. The full extent of the damage to woodlands has still to be quantified and will require follow-up ground surveys, mapping and analysis of spatial data. That is ongoing and will take a number of weeks to complete.

In the immediate aftermath of the storm, the focus was to prioritise the capability of the Department and the available contractors to carry out clearance works in order to reinstate access for neighbours and businesses. My Department also worked with other agencies to reopen public roads and to assist in reconnecting electricity and utility supplies. We are continuing our work, including with recreational partners, to expedite tree clearance works in the areas most affected by reduced recreational provision.

My Department's country park sites were also significantly affected by the storm, which resulted in damage to woodland areas and many fallen trees. Whilst access to numerous sites was initially blocked and some sites were closed in the immediate aftermath of the storm, contractors were engaged with my officials, and those sites are now open to access.

Kellie Armstrong (Alliance, Strangford)

I thank the Minister for his answer. You mentioned Mount Stewart which, as you know, is in the Strangford constituency. Have you any more detail on the impact on Mount Stewart, and would you be willing to visit it with me to see how the National Trust is responding to that damage?

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

I will be delighted to visit Mount Stewart with you and to engage with the National Trust on the impact of the storm. As has been reported to the general public, approximately 10,000 trees were lost in Mount Stewart as a result of the storm. That is a concern for so many people in the Strangford constituency and beyond, and I will be delighted to go along with you to see the work that the National Trust is doing in response to that.

David Honeyford (Alliance, Lagan Valley)

T4. Mr Honeyford asked the Minister of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs, having already talked about the environment and Lough Neagh, to outline the latest position in respect of ammonia. (AQT 1074/22-27)

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

Thank you, David, for your question. Whilst it is not something that we can see, for example, in relation to water quality, ammonia is a key issue. Action on ammonia is required to support local farm businesses whilst protecting our environment and meeting our legislative requirements. We must put Northern Ireland agriculture on a pathway to meet UK national emissions ceiling regulations targets for reductions in ammonia emissions by 2030.

A draft ammonia strategy that proposed a series of measures to reduce ammonia emissions underwent public consultation from 4 January to 3 March 2023 and attracted a high level of interest. The responses to that consultation have been used to inform the proposed ammonia strategy. The strategic environmental assessment (SEA) has been completed for the combined proposed ammonia strategy and revised operational protocol. An eight-week public consultation on the strategic environmental assessment report will be launched at the end of this week. Stakeholders are encouraged to provide their views as part of that consultation, and an update will be given on the ammonia strategy.

Changes have been made to the ammonia strategy following the consultation. The ammonia strategy's vision, objective and outcomes have been updated. Targets have been revised and supporting information provided. The proposed mandatory spatially targeted measures around designated sites will not be taken forward in the ammonia strategy. A separate site-specific programme is to be developed to take forward spatially targeted measures at designated sites as part of the combined approach to ammonia. That approach will comprise three components: the ammonia strategy, the operation protocol and the site-specific approach. Further consultation on the mandatory measures in the proposed ammonia strategy will take place as part of a nitrates action programme (NAP) review. Those are occurring elsewhere and should not be a surprise to many in moving to 100% low emission slurry spreading equipment (LESSE) by 2030 and a prohibition on the use of urea fertiliser without inhibitor.

I encourage everyone to respond to the consultations that I have cited.

David Honeyford (Alliance, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Minister for a really detailed response. With regard to the consultations, will you give an update on how stakeholder engagement is happening on the issue?

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

Thank you, David. On taking up office as Minister, I inherited a number of significant challenges, ammonia being one of them. The recent Office for Environmental Protection report sets out clearly the issues, challenges and legal requirements. I encourage everyone to read it.

Being conscious of the significance of the issue to both farmers and the environment, I have convened a number of ministerial round-table meetings with stakeholders on the issue — the most recent being last week — focused on finding a way forward that protects the natural environment, drives down emissions and seeks to address practical problems such as replacement farm buildings. I will continue to engage with stakeholders and officials to find practical solutions that ensure that we operate within the legal framework.

Comments last month by John McLenaghan, deputy president of the Ulster Farmers' Union, on the issue of ammonia were very useful, as have been the contributions of Northern Ireland Environment Link, as we work together, proving that environment and farming go hand in hand. I am quietly confident that we can step forward positively on the matter with the help of technology. The forthcoming SEA consultation is important so that we avoid any delays in progress on this important issue.

Gerry Carroll (People Before Profit Alliance, Belfast West)

I am not sure that I will get such a long answer.

Gerry Carroll (People Before Profit Alliance, Belfast West)

T5. Mr Carroll asked the Minister of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs to detail when officials in his Department have to declare any potential matters of interest when in meetings on behalf of the Department. (AQT 1075/22-27)

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

That is set out in Northern Ireland Civil Service (NICS) HR policy. If the Member has concerns, I am happy for him to write to me, and I can consider them. However, that is the established process in all Departments.

Gerry Carroll (People Before Profit Alliance, Belfast West)

I will look at that, Minister, and I certainly will send through any matters of concern. If, for example, when discussing issues of farming or agriculture, senior officials in your Department had a financial interest, directly or through family members, in those areas, would they have to declare those at every meeting or at some meetings, or where would that generally take place?

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

An established process is in place for declaring interests. They are kept on a register, and it is important that that occurs. If the Member has a concern that guidance has not been followed, I am happy to consider correspondence in relation to that.

I am proud of the work that my officials do. I have confidence in them, because they are driven by science and evidence in the decisions that we make. There are lots of challenges in Northern Ireland, but we are working through those, and, hopefully, we are giving people confidence that we are determined to do that. I know that some of the decisions that we are having to take are difficult, but that is what government is about.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

Mr Butler for a short question and, Minister, an equally short reply, please.

Robbie Butler (UUP, Lagan Valley)

T6. Mr Butler asked the Minister of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs for an update on his and the Department's priorities on where renewable energies will sit in achieving our climate change credentials. (AQT 1076/22-27)

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

That largely sits within the Department for the Economy, but we have a role to play in marine licensing. We have been doing some work there on the fees so that we have full cost recovery to ensure that there is resourcing around that. We have a potential role to play in the Forest Service estate, and we will progress an initiative to see if there is any interest in that. We need to reach our renewable energy targets, but that should not be to the detriment of the environment. That is something that I raised with Steve Reed, the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, just recently.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

Mr Butler for a short supplementary.

Robbie Butler (UUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Minister for his short answer, and this is equally short. There is a role for methane in the gas supply: has the Minister done any work on that?

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

Yes. I get excited about that, and I am conscious that we are coming towards 2.45 pm. There is real potential in that, but we have to make sure that there are proper regulations associated with it. Officials are engaging intensively with the Department for the Economy on that. That has real potential to allow us to view things in a different manner, and we are keen to progress that. I am conscious of the developments across the border as well.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. That concludes questions to the Minister. Time is now up. Just take your ease for a few moments while we get ready for the next item of business.

Private Members' Business

Cathy Mason (Sinn Féin, South Down)

I beg to move

That this Assembly acknowledges the vital importance of ensuring that schools have access to high-quality goods and services that meet their particular needs; notes that public procurement policy does not prohibit schools from directly procuring low cost goods and services in a timely manner; further notes the concerns raised by schools and school leaders regarding the inflexibility and complexity of the Education Authority's (EA) current application of procurement policies; recognises that overly rigid and bureaucratic procurement processes can hinder schools' ability to achieve best value for money, respond quickly to local needs and access small and local suppliers of relevant goods and services; and calls on the Minister of Education to conduct a review of the EA's application of procurement policy for schools, with a focus on reducing unnecessary administrative burdens, providing flexibility for school leaders to make purchasing decisions within clear and transparent guidelines and establishing regular engagement with school leaders to identify and address ongoing challenges in procurement policy.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

The Business Committee has agreed to allow up to one hour and 30 minutes for the debate. The proposer of the motion will have 10 minutes to propose and 10 minutes to make a winding-up speech. As an amendment has been selected and is published on the Marshalled List, the Business Committee has agreed that 15 minutes will be added to the total time for the debate.

Cathy, please open the debate.

Cathy Mason (Sinn Féin, South Down)

Go raibh maith agat, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle.

[Translation: Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker]

Procurement regulations exist for a good reason: to ensure that there is transparency, fairness and, of course, value for money. However, as, I am sure, we will hear throughout today's debate, the current rules can be overly restrictive, creating unnecessary bureaucracy for our schools. Too often, head teachers and school leaders find themselves tangled in red tape when trying to make relatively minor purchases, whether that be securing a local contractor for repairs, purchasing classroom materials or arranging essential services.

When schools are forced to adhere to rigid procurement processes, it can lead to inefficiencies, delays and even increased costs. A principal should not have to navigate an arduous tendering process for a minor maintenance job that a trusted provider could complete quickly and affordably, nor should schools be compelled to purchase from a limited list of suppliers, if better, more cost-effective options are readily available. I spoke with a school leader who had recently set up a number of specialist provisions at their school and listened as they described the money that was wasted when they purchased simple resources through the procurement process. They could have purchased those items for almost £3,000 less had they been able to shop around.

Given the budgetary constraints that the Department faces, it seems ludicrous that we cannot address the issue. We must place our trust in school leaders. They understand the day-to-day needs of their school much better than anyone else. By granting them greater autonomy over smaller procurement decisions, we would empower them to act in the best interests of their pupils, their staff and their budget. Other jurisdictions have already implemented more flexible procurement models, allowing schools to make sensible financial choices without unnecessary intervention. The benefits of that are clear: reduced administrative burdens, greater financial efficiency and stronger support for local businesses. It is time for the North to follow suit.

Of course, any change must be accompanied by appropriate safeguards. We advocate not a complete removal of oversight but a more balanced approach that distinguishes between high-value, high-risk procurement exercises and those that are of a more routine nature. Schools should still be accountable for their spending, but that should happen within a framework that allows them to operate efficiently and effectively.

Our schools are not just centres of learning but the heart of our communities. They deserve procurement rules that support rather than hinder their ability to provide the best possible education for our children. By easing restrictions on taking smaller-scale financial decisions, we would give them the tools to make practical and sensible choices that benefit everyone. Let us show confidence in our school leaders. Let us have reform that delivers efficiency, value for money and, above all else, common sense.

In a response to my colleague Pat Sheehan, Caoimhe Archibald, the Finance Minister at the time, confirmed that there was no impediment at her end to easing procurement rules for schools. The Education Authority has the power to progress a review of procurement processes. I therefore urge all my colleagues and everyone else in the Chamber to back the initiative and to work together for a procurement system that truly serves our schools and communities. I commend the motion to the House.

Peter Martin (DUP, North Down)

I beg to move the following amendment:

Leave out all after "relevant goods and services;" and insert: "calls on the Minister of Education to conduct a review of the EA's application of procurement policy for schools, with a focus on reducing unnecessary administrative burdens, providing flexibility for school leaders to make purchasing decisions within clear and transparent guidelines and establishing regular engagement with school leaders to identify and address ongoing challenges in procurement policy; and further calls on the Minister of Education to work with the EA to advance plans to delegate authority to schools to procure low-value maintenance works, as well as introduce new and more efficient contracts for the delivery of school maintenance and minor works throughout Northern Ireland."