Northern Ireland Assembly, 25 November 2024

355 contributions from 63 members. The official report.

Assembly Business

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

I have received notice that the First Minister is unable to be in the Chamber today and that the deputy First Minister will respond to questions on behalf of the Executive Office at Question Time.

Matter of the Day

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

Jonathan Buckley has been given leave to make a statement on the death of Ken Reid that fulfils the criteria set out in Standing Order 24. If other Members wish to be called, they should indicate that by rising in their place and continuing to do so. All Members who are called will have up to three minutes to speak. I remind Members that no interventions will be permitted and no points of order will be taken during this matter.

Jonathan Buckley (DUP, Upper Bann)

On Wednesday past, Northern Ireland lost a colossus in local journalism. Ken Reid passed away after a long battle with leukaemia. He truly was an inspiration to many Members in the Chamber and many of his colleagues with whom he worked for many years in local journalism. His career began in 1977 and led him to the heights of political correspondence throughout one of Northern Ireland's most difficult periods.

What other journalist could provoke a hushed moment in a family home? I remember, as do, I am sure, many Members, my parents saying, "Shh! Let us listen to Ken Reid". Such was his political antennae and analysis that many people wanted to tune in to listen to what he had to say. He was a trustworthy individual. Like many Members, I have been touched by some of the stories told following Ken's passing and by how Members across the House had a confidence and trust in Ken Reid that they do not normally have in journalists. Ken inspired that trust. It was a conversation.

I remember, on my first occasion of being elected to this place, being introduced to that man, who I had seen on television all my life. I think that it was you, Mr Speaker, who brought me down for a cup of tea or coffee with Ken. Immediately, Ken tried to school me. He said, "Here are a couple of books. You need to read them and really understand what they mean. Put them on your bedside table." Such was his knowledge, understanding and interest in all things politics that he truly was a man in a class of his own.

He interviewed seven Prime Ministers and some US presidents. He had such an opportunity to speak for so many, sometimes in such difficult circumstances. It is clear to see the sheer warmth that many of his former colleagues share for him. I do not think that I am alone when I say that I was particularly moved by Mr Nesbitt's tributes on TV and radio. It is clear what Ken Reid meant to you as an individual and, I am sure, to every one of your former colleagues.

Ken has passed, but his memory certainly lives on. When Ken was retiring, he talked to many of us about his love for his family. On behalf of the Democratic Unionist Party, I say this to Ken's wife, Liz, his children Gareth, Sarah and Sophie and his grandchildren Summer and Hugo: Ken truly was a special man. He will be missed in this place, but he will be especially missed in your family home, and I give thanks for the life of Ken Reid.

Gerry Kelly (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I think that many people will want to speak about Ken Reid. As Jonathan said, he was liked by all, which, in itself, is a great achievement.

First, I send condolences to Ken's family and colleagues. I have listened to them, as Jonathan has, over the period since he passed. It is sometimes hard to listen to some of the stories, but he was clearly loved by his colleagues in journalism. I knew him since about the 1990s, so for quite a long period. He was north Belfast born and bred, which helped me, and he was a Cliftonville supporter, which also made it easier for the relationship.

I always found him to be very quiet, very respectful and very polite, but he was also very determined, because he was passionate about what he did. His passion was a very quiet passion in all that he did, and, of course, he was a political animal. It is fair to say that I never heard him be abrasive, which says something about a journalist who has to deal with politicians and others. He was someone who it would have been very hard to fall out with, and he was highly respected by all, as we will find out today and as we have heard over the past number of days. During his illness, which was quite prolonged and happened in bouts, he showed a great courage and, of course, became an advocate for others who were suffering.

I remember him through all the negotiations, through the transition from them, through the Assembly, through the

[Inaudible]

all the rest of it. I always found him balanced, which is also quite hard to achieve, and he also had a good sense of humour. In the middle of a corridor or in the middle of doing something in the Great Hall, he gave you a wee bit of a laugh. He will be well remembered, and, of all his achievements, the fact that he has friends across the board in every quarter is as good a legacy as you can have, and that is alongside all the things that he achieved as a journalist.

He will be sadly missed. As someone who is around the same age as him — I am slightly older — I remember saying, "What would you like to be remembered as? As someone who had a very full life?", and he said, "As a good human being". That was a very simple thing to say, and I think that it goes for Ken.

Eóin Tennyson (Alliance, Upper Bann)

I join colleagues across the House in conveying my sympathy and that of the Alliance Party to the friends and family of the late Ken Reid. In particular, at this incredibly difficult time, I offer my condolences to his wife, Liz, his children Gareth, Sarah and Sophie, his grandchildren Summer and Hugo and all his colleagues at UTV.

Ken was a towering figure of local journalism. He covered every major political development in Northern Ireland over the course of 30 years, including, of course, the signing of the Good Friday Agreement and the early and delicate days of the peace process here in Northern Ireland. Whilst I did not know Ken personally — he retired a year before I entered the House — I very much felt as if I knew him well, because he was a regular fixture on my TV screen, as he was for an entire generation. He shaped the public's understanding of key political events in those years.

It was clear from Ken's reporting that he was a man of great intellect, of great integrity, of compassion and of good wit and good humour. He pursued every story with tenacity but also with sensitivity and great care, and that speaks to the kind of man that he was. He was never fearful to ask the tough questions but, simultaneously, managed to command the respect of politicians from every side of the Chamber, and that is quite the feat. He leaves behind an enormous legacy, and I hope that that legacy will bring some comfort to his family at this very difficult time.

The tenacity with which Ken approached journalism was matched in his later years in his battle with illness. He conducted himself in those final years with a real dignity that, I think, is inspirational to all of us. Whilst it is those closest to Ken who will feel his loss most acutely, all of us in the Chamber, all of us in politics and all of us in Northern Ireland are the poorer for his passing. He will be sadly missed.

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I rise to pay a particularly fond farewell to my friend and my former colleague. Ken bore his health issues with typical fortitude and concern for others. Numerous times, I asked him, "How are you?", and he quickly switched to talk about the wonderful healthcare that he was receiving from the nurses, doctors and allied health professionals. He was blown away by their relentless professionalism and compassion.

Ken spent his early years in journalism as a dedicated newspaper man. In fact, broadcasting came almost by accident. One day at UTV, we needed to interview somebody in Cork, where Ken was based. I phoned him and asked him whether he would be the reporter. He said yes, but on two conditions: that he did not appear on camera and that we cut out his questions. No sound, no vision: I think we can agree that that was quite an unusual request for a TV person. A few weeks later, we needed to interview that guy again. By this time, Ken had changed his mind. He said that sound and vision was OK. He had caught the broadcasting bug. That is how it began, but it ended with Ken being the most respected journalist I have ever met — the most respected journalist I have ever known, in fact. Why? Because he was authentic, curious, caring and compassionate. He was totally fair and impartial in his reporting, and he was completely trustworthy. He knew when to tell the audience what he knew and when to hold it up his sleeve. For all those reasons, he had friends on this side of the House, that side of the House, to my left, to my right, in front of me and behind me.

I had the pleasure of working with him for about a decade. We covered so much, especially the long, long build-up to the Good Friday/Belfast Agreement. We covered atrocities, not least the Omagh bombing. We travelled many, many times, reporting from not just Northern Ireland but Dublin, London and Washington DC. In those hundreds and hundreds of live exchanges, we never once rehearsed the questions and answers, because we had trust. More importantly, the public had great trust in Ken: they relied on him and valued his analysis. He was, frankly, for all that time, my broadcasting brother, and I am so grateful to have had that opportunity.

My condolences to all but particularly to Liz, to Gareth, Sarah and Sophie, to Summer and Hugo and to the rest of the extended family. I will finish with a thought for Ken, if he is listening. Ken, you always started revealing things to me by saying, "You know yourself", even when I did not. Ken, I hope you know yourself that you were loved and you are missed.

Matthew O'Toole (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

It is hard to follow that tribute from Ken's friend and former colleague, Mike Nesbitt, which I think really sums up the esteem in which Ken Reid was held not just by Mike but by his colleagues and all in this region and, indeed, further afield. Like others, I grew up watching Ken Reid on TV. On UTV, he was a fixture talking about, first, the political process, which then became a peace process and then these institutions, and everything that has flowed from that. Some of it has been wonderful and transformative, and some of it has been, at times, depressing, frustrating and alarming. Through all that, the public, whatever their perspective and whatever their background, trusted Ken Reid. He was a credit not only to the broadcaster that he worked for but to journalism, because he built trust and authenticity, as Mike Nesbitt said.

I first got to know Ken Reid personally in a previous life when I worked in London. I met Ken a couple of times and had interesting conversations with him. I then came back here to be a politician at Stormont.

By that stage, Ken was in the last couple of years of his working life and was dealing with the illness that, as others have said, he bore with such dignity and good humour.

All of my conversations with Ken Reid were professional and interesting, but they were also life-enhancing because Ken, as many people know, was not just a sharp and incisive journalist. It is important to say that his warmth and good humour never stopped him from being robust and incisive, which was why audiences trusted him. Conversations with him were always life-enhancing. You could start by talking about the controversial issue of the day, such as what was going to happen with a talks process, the protocol or some falling-out that had happened at Stormont, Westminster or wherever. Quickly, you found yourself, almost organically, getting on to music or football. He was a huge fan of Cliftonville and Everton, and he was a big fan of Ballymena Rugby Club. He also talked about music, in which he was very interested. I remember having conversations with Ken about something that we were both interested in but is, perhaps, not widely held in affection in this part of the world: real ale. Ken was a big fan of real ale, and he and I used to talk about that.

Ken was a deeply warm and authentic person, but he was a hugely respected journalist, not just by people in the Chamber or in Northern Ireland politics but by presidents, Prime Ministers and Taoisigh, all of whom sat down with him. He challenged them and brought what they had to say to an audience at a time when people needed that information and proper journalism. His passing is hugely sad for his family, and my condolences and those of my party go to Liz, his children — Gareth, Sarah and Sophie — and his grandchildren. I also want to reflect on Ken's huge contribution to public life here and his contribution to journalism. He showed the importance of journalism and what it can do for democracy and society when it is done right, and, my gosh, Ken Reid did it right.

Paul Frew (DUP, North Antrim)

I pay tribute to Ken and send my condolences to his family. Ken was a big personality, but he betrayed that in his own small way. For a journalist, that is quite a niche. He was a giant in his trade of journalism. Whilst we all speak to journalists, it is not often that you sit down and have a proper conversation with a journalist, but you did with Ken Reid. When I first met Ken Reid, he complimented me by saying that he had followed me in council. I was embarrassed by the fact that he called me "the Young Turk". He said, "Don't lose that. Democracy needs that in a place like this." So right he was.

Ken was a giant in journalism, but he was also a local man. He lived just outside Ballymena and loved Ballymena Rugby Club. He loved some of the premises in and around the town, and everyone knew him, not only because they had seen him on TV but because he took the time to talk to people. Ken was also not one of those people who did not want to talk about trade on a Saturday. He would openly talk to anyone who cared to listen. That was the gift of Ken Reid. We think, in this place, that democracy needs politicians, but actually democracy needs Ken Reids.

Timothy Gaston (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

I join the House in paying tribute to the life of Ken Reid. Ken was one of my constituents, who, from humble beginnings as a newspaper reporter, became one of the most recognisable faces in Northern Ireland. While I am new to this place, no set of crisis talks were complete without Ken reporting live from the Great Hall or, more often than not, from outside in the cold.

In more recent days, we saw something of the other side of the man. When faced with the challenge of chronic leukaemia, he used his profile for good by campaigning to raise awareness of the condition. His colleagues at UTV and, indeed, throughout wider media circles will, no doubt, miss him deeply. I assure his entire family circle that they are in my thoughts and prayers.

Any death reminds us of the reality of mortality. Ken will rightly receive many tributes from inside the House and outside it, but his death reminds us of the words from scripture:

"man being in honour abideth not".

Members, we need to live our lives for the things that are of eternal value.

Mark Durkan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

There has been a huge outpouring of grief, love and sorrow, as well as stories told, since the news broke last week of the passing of legendary local journalist and broadcaster Ken Reid. Ken was a constant in our lives and in our living rooms for as long as I can remember. He was in our living rooms to report on some of our darkest hours, as well as some of our brightest dawns, keeping us all up to date with and across the latest political developments in his straightforward, honest, insightful and inimitable style.

As a politician, I found it always a pleasure to be interviewed by Ken. He did not mollycoddle you, but he did not try to catch you out either. He knew that the story was never about him. That is what made him so great at his job. It was a real privilege to spend time with Ken and, on many occasions, to see him sitting in the canteen downstairs and join him for lunch. The conversation might have touched on politics a wee bit, but, invariably, more time was spent talking about the things that he loved even more: his family and football. We were united by a common love of Everton, something that, Ken joked, prepared him well for his tough battle against the illness and adversity that he faced in his last year. He faced that battle with huge bravery and typical humour.

Ken was, obviously, loved and respected by politicians, loved and respected by the public and loved and respected by his peers and colleagues. His loss will be deeply felt by many but by none more than his beloved Liz, his children and his grandchildren. We offer them all our support and love.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

Before I conclude the Matter of the Day, I will make a few remarks about the late Ken Reid. Aside from Mr Nesbitt and Mr Kelly, I probably knew him longer than anyone in the Chamber had. Over the years, Ken established a trust with all of us that, I think, no other journalist achieved. That led to his breaking nearly all the big stories. We often heard Ken break stories that clearly came from Downing Street, because he had an in there. He was over in the White House, yet he still took the time to talk to political minnows such as me at the time. That was Ken's journalism. He built relationships and friendships and got nuggets here and there, and he pulled all of that together. He got the story, and he got it right. Ken did not have to come on air and apologise for getting things wrong, because he got the stories right.

I look at the type of journalism that Ken Reid excelled in and then at some of the gotcha-type journalism that exists nowadays. Those journalists will never break the big stories, because they will never gain the trust that Ken Reid did. It is a really significant and special achievement to have that level of trust across the community of politicians who represent Northern Ireland.

Ken and I disagreed on many things: on Linfield and Cliftonville, on Liverpool and Everton and on Phil Collins and Van Morrison. His taste in music was terrible, and his taste in football teams was terrible. Nonetheless, he was a really fine journalist and a really fine gentleman. Northern Ireland is poorer for the passing of Ken Reid. I pay tribute to him, and I extend sympathies on behalf of all Members to his wife, Liz, and his family — his children and grandchildren — at this difficult time. While all of us have sadness about Ken's passing, they have lost their loved one. Our hearts go out to them.

That concludes the Matter of the Day, and I thank Members for their contributions.

Assembly Business

Matthew O'Toole (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Will you give your opinion or guidance, if there is any guidance, on the absence of the First Minister from Question Time today? Is it proper, given that we will soon have the Christmas recess, that we have been given such short notice of the First Minister's absence? Is there guidance on appearance? We will not now have an opportunity to question both parts of the joint office until well into the new year.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

The First Minister has given notice and has good cause not to be here. I encourage Members to respect that.

Members' Statements

Linda Dillon (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I wish to speak about the flooding at the weekend. First, my thoughts are with all those whose homes or businesses were flooded, but I particularly reference the flooding in Coalisland and the Clonoe area, particularly the Kings Row area of Coalisland town.

Flooding has, unfortunately, been an ongoing issue in Kings Row over many years. People's homes have flooded when there have been serious storms or heavy rainfall. Work was done a few years ago to address the flooding. It did address it over several storms and periods of heavy rain, but, unfortunately, the rain on Friday night and Saturday morning brought serious issues for the residents of Kings Row in Coalisland. In particular, my thoughts are with a family who had to remove the remains of their mother from her home, which was a traumatic experience. The family were burying her this morning, and my thoughts are with them. The dignity with which the services carried out their work and helped the family to remove the remains was very much appreciated by them. I acknowledge that here.

Going forward, we need to ensure that no family living in Kings Row has to face that again. People are out of their homes in the mouth of Christmas, and their homes are destroyed. There is nothing more devastating than seeing your home destroyed, and trying to repair a water-damaged home is a horrific experience for anybody. We need to ensure that those families do not experience flooding again and can live in their homes. They are unable to get insurance because of the previous flooding. They need to be able to live in their homes and know that, when it rains, they do not have to panic or call their local elected reps and say, "Please, help us to get sandbags. Help us to get the agencies out here".

In that vein, I spoke to the Infrastructure Minister this morning, and he said that, if there is anything that his Department needs to do or has not done, he will ensure that it is addressed. He has asked for urgent updates from his officials on the matter but also for solutions going forward. We will have an inter-agency meeting facilitated, I believe, by the Mid Ulster District Council, but it must be pulled together urgently so that families are not in fear that their homes will be flooded again.

I call on all those responsible, particularly the housing association that owns a number of the homes, to ensure that all work is carried out with urgency to allow the families to return to their homes before Christmas. A lot of work has happened on the ground, and elected representatives were out helping residents this morning, as they were on Saturday morning. I commend the elected representatives who were on the ground on Saturday from early morning until late afternoon to help the residents.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

The Member's time is up.

Linda Dillon (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Particular regard goes to those residents, and my thoughts are with all the families who had to leave their home.

Tom Buchanan (DUP, West Tyrone)

I condemn those who, under cover of darkness on Thursday night past, erected a large sign on the wall of Priest's Lane car park calling for a total boycott of all shops and businesses in Castlederg, as they had taken umbrage at the flying of a Union flag in the area.

It is nothing short of hate speech and an incitement to hatred that contributes to division and fear. It is a direct and deliberate attack on the minority Protestant/unionist community and all the business owners across the Castlederg area. Business owners are not responsible for what is placed on a lamp post in Castlederg. Therefore, to call for a boycott of businesses and state that there is no alternative to such action is but a continuation of the anti-Protestant/unionist campaign of hatred that caused devastation to many families in Castlederg over the thirty years of the IRA terrorist campaign.

We know that there has always been an alternative to the murder, the bloodshed, the bombings, the intimidation and the devastation caused by Republican-inspired sectarian bigotry and to the boycotts, both in the past and today. I call on those who erected the sign to remove it immediately. If it is not removed, the council must step up to the mark and have it removed. Business owners in Castlederg must be given full support, irrespective of the religious background they come from. Given the recent opening of the redeveloped Diamond area in Castlederg, the new play facilities at Castle Park and the COVID recovery paint scheme in the town, it is now time to get behind the businesses and the community and give them the support that they need, rather than taking such a divisive backward step.

Allowing the sign to remain damages not only the community's values but the council's credibility. The council must therefore demonstrate leadership and accountability and take swift and decisive action to ensure that the sign is removed and implement measures to prevent such incidents happening in the future. We cannot have that type of thing happening in Castlederg or any other town across Northern Ireland. Those days are in the past. It is time for those living in the past to come into the real world and seek to work together with everyone to ensure that businesses across Northern Ireland thrive and get the support that they require.

Connie Egan (Alliance, North Down)

Today marks the start of 16 days of activism against gender-based violence. The next weeks are time for action and reflection on the global theme: unite to end violence against women and girls. To coincide with the beginning of the 16 days is White Ribbon Day, which is a global movement that was started by men to combat violence against women and girls.

Research by Ulster University recently found that 98% of women in Northern Ireland have experienced at least one form of violence or abuse in their lifetime. That is shocking and unacceptable, and the solutions are everyone's responsibility. The challenge that I put to all legislators in our Chamber today is to amplify the voices of victims and survivors across all our briefs.

Since the Assembly returned in February, we have had the publication of the strategic framework to end violence against women and girls, alongside the strategy to tackle domestic and sexual abuse. New funding has become available to provide vital support for the organisations that propped us up in the absence of a functioning Government. That does not negate the fact, though, that until September, we were the only region across these islands that did not have a dedicated action plan to tackle gender-based violence. Those steps signify only the beginning of our Executive jointly stepping up to the plate and uniting to deliver for women and girls.

I cannot stand here and pretend that we can pat ourselves on the back. From 1 January 2023 to 30 June this year, 31,931 domestic abuse incidents were reported to the PSNI in Northern Ireland. This work is for everyone across our society to be involved in. Whether it is on providing preventative education, strengthening our justice system or providing support to victims, the message that we must send is one of change.

Today, Women's Aid Northern Ireland launched its annual figures. It reported that, in the financial year 2023-24, 527 women and 291 children stayed in one of its emergency accommodation refuges in Northern Ireland. We cannot be self-congratulatory when we are still playing catch-up on years of inaction, and women are paying the cost of that with their lives. Our approach to ending the epidemic must be to get everyone involved. We cannot be bystanders; we must all be vehicles for change and progress.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

On Thursday, the Windsor Framework Democratic Scrutiny Committee sank further into irrelevance. Before the Committee were regulation (EU) 2024/2747, regulation (EU) 2024/2748 and directive (EU) 2024/2749 — hardly tripping off the tongue. Those regulations refer to the European Union's Internal Market Emergency and Resilience Act (IMERA).

The advice that we received made it clear that, if enacted, the regulations could have a significant impact on everyday life in Northern Ireland. They mean that, if the EU calls an emergency, it has substantial powers over the provision and control of goods and other activity wherever the writ of the EU applies, and that includes Northern Ireland. The rules and regulations have primacy over UK law and any Northern Ireland legislation. There is no definition of what the EU describes as "an emergency". It could be another pandemic, another war like that in Ukraine or even, as explained to us in Brussels recently, a trade war with Donald Trump. Even though there was little detail or, indeed, input from our Departments, it was clear that the only proper scrutiny was done by Westminster Committees, and they had significant concerns as well.

The purpose of Thursday's meeting was to ask whether we should hold an inquiry into the impact of such legislation. The public can view the responses of elected representatives, especially those of the Alliance and Sinn Féin members, but to not hold an inquiry just because the issue is complex or difficult to understand smacks not of due diligence on our part as a Committee but of just following a particular ideology. I have remarked before that the Committee is the most incurious that I have ever sat on. Its near-pedantic following of the letter of its terms of reference goes significantly against what the Committee's intent was clearly supposed to be, namely to act as a safeguard for the people of Northern Ireland. Yet again, for ideological reasons, the Committee has singularly failed to do so. The Democratic Scrutiny Committee is, I am afraid, neither providing much democratic scrutiny or accountability nor even functioning much as a Committee. The people of Northern Ireland deserve much better of their elected Members.

Sinéad McLaughlin (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

As many Members will be aware, I care deeply about regional economic balance. It is what drove me to stand for election in the first place and what drives me every day in the Chamber. That is because, having worked in business development for many years, I know all too well the inequalities faced by left-behind places and that our peace process and the agreement have not delivered prosperity for everyone. Of course, I see this every day in Derry. In my city, we feel the disparities in our economy deeply. They still hold back far too many people in our community, force too many of our young people to move away to access higher education and trap generations in poverty. That has terrible consequences for our population's health and well-being.

We should all want to see a society in which, no matter the postcode of your birth, you can go as far as your talents will take you. It has been welcome that, since devolution returned in February, a new emphasis has been put on regional balance by the Minister for the Economy in particular. I welcome the subregional economic plan, despite its limitations, and acknowledge the fact that regional balance features as one of the four pillars in the Minister's economic vision, but, as the Minister has said, he cannot achieve regional balance alone. That is the job of every Department. Although we have seen warm words, strategies and even the Programme for Government, which are welcome, they will not address the imbalances here. We need binding legislation that ensures that regional economic balance is a thread running through every Department's decision-making. Today, I will take another step towards introducing legislation as I launch the official public consultation on my private Member's Bill on regional jobs, skills and investment. The consultation is an opportunity for businesses and individuals to have their say on regional balance and the steps needed to finally address the inequalities in our economy. It is in everyone's interests that we break down barriers to opportunity and give everyone a fair shot by levelling the playing field once and for all. That is why I am pushing forward with legislation. I encourage everyone to contribute to this important debate.

Ciara Ferguson (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

Over 2,000 families here are shielded from the worst impacts of the cruel British Government austerity agenda by the current benefit cap mitigation.

Our Committee for Communities, therefore, pressed the Department on Thursday past on the need to secure and extend them. I commend colleagues in Advice NI, particularly its head of policy, Kevin Higgins, and the wider Cliff Edge Coalition on what their campaign has done so far to raise awareness of the looming deadline of 31 March 2025. Just last week, I and, I am sure, many in the Chamber attended several relevant discussions, including the launch of the Audit Committee's report on child poverty, a meeting with the Cliff Edge Coalition and an event on Thursday that the Trussell Trust organised.

Over one fifth of families here have three or more children. The cruel two-child limit, therefore, has a particularly disproportionate impact on our families and contributes to scandalous levels of child poverty. Of the over 35,000 emergency food parcels that the community of food banks distributed between April and September, 71% were to households with children aged nought to 16. Even more recently, I and my colleague Pádraig Delargy MLA met our local Trussell food network foundation, which is based in Foyle. It is in the midst of preparing for a particularly difficult and busy time of the year. We all have a duty to end poverty and ensure that no more families endure the heartbreaking impacts of hunger and hardship. All families need to be provided with certainty and relief urgently. The Minister for Communities must urgently clarify whether he will extend and strengthen the current mitigation package, including the benefit cap mitigation, before 31 March. The Department should also outline what recent engagement the Minister has had with the Trussell Trust, Advice NI and the Cliff Edge Coalition. I am calling, once again, for the urgent publication of the anti-poverty strategy and for the protection of our existing mitigations.

Brian Kingston (DUP, Belfast North)

Last month, the Minister for Communities, Gordon Lyons, hosted a very successful and enjoyable evening at the SSE Arena honouring our athletes who competed and won medals in the Paris Olympic and Paralympic Games. Those who represented Great Britain and Northern Ireland and those who represented Ireland were honoured. Many will now be looking forward to the next major games, which will be the Commonwealth Games. We welcome the fact that Glasgow has stepped forward to host the games in 2026, albeit with a reduced number of disciplines.

Of course, in the Commonwealth Games, our athletes from all community backgrounds unambiguously represent Northern Ireland, and we take pride in their representing our wee country on the international stage. We regret the push from some quarters to promote the view that we should scrap all previous convention and practice and no longer use the Northern Ireland flag, which is commonly known as the Ulster banner, at those games. I make it absolutely clear that the DUP would completely oppose removing the Ulster banner — the Northern Ireland flag.

We know that many issues around flags and anthems are established by convention. It is entirely clear that Northern Ireland has the Ulster banner, and it should be used on appropriate occasions when people and teams represent our wee country. We see it used across a wide range of sports, including football, golf, snooker, athletics, darts, bowls and many others. Such matters belong in the political arena for consideration by elected representatives and, in particular, this elected Assembly, where they are part of the ongoing process on flags, identity, culture and tradition. That is where such matters should be decided. We do not wish to see sporting bodies being divided against each other on the matter. We do not agree with those who wish to impose such a political matter on sporting bodies where the convention is clear and unambiguous.

Northern Ireland has a proud tradition of punching above its weight in sporting achievement. Let us all be proud of those who represent us at the highest level of international competition.

Sian Mulholland (Alliance, North Antrim)

The words that I am about to say are not mine. They are those of Sinéad, who is a Trussell service user from part of the group that launched the Trussell's 'Building blocks for a better future' report, on Thursday. I feel that they are important enough for the Chamber to hear fully.

"I have to begin by illuminating an uncomfortable truth: the fact is that people like me see our Government and state as an adversary instead of a source of support. The imbalance of power feels crushing. The majority of the systems that we have to interact with feel hostile to us. Each interaction can be a battle. People living with trauma are retraumatised, often unintentionally, by the system. Those systems we face seem purposely built to make it more difficult to access the support we require. The one thing that reducing access guarantees is that it is disadvantaging and potentially discriminating against the vulnerable, the ill and the disabled. According to a 2021 census, around one in four people are disabled. However, 61% of those who access a food bank in Northern Ireland identified as having a disability issue. That means that, already, vulnerable people are heavily over-represented at the sharpest end of poverty. Chronically ill and disabled people on ESA were told we would be migrated to universal credit in 2028. It was brought forward to 2024 by the UK Government. A date for that process to begin has not yet been given by our Government here. That letter hitting doorsteps will cause untold harm to already vulnerable people. We are not being given adequate notice to prepare. Living in financial hardship is tough enough, but it is not just financial costs that we have to deal with. Income inequality is deeply unfair, undignified and causes poorer outcomes for our people when it comes to child development, education, health, mental health and social outcomes. That is why Trussell's building blocks strategy to defeat hardship and poverty here in Northern Ireland is so important. It does not just look at the obvious cause: that is, having enough money to meet basic needs. It is also looking at the factors that can lead people into a life of poverty. Being poor should be enough to contend with. Being poor takes a lot of time and energy — and money, ironically enough. We are more likely to have adverse life experiences if we are poor, to have poorer health outcomes and lower life expectancy. The reduction of face-to-face interactions, replaced by phone calls and journals, means that it is easier to dehumanise and to feel dehumanised. Again, it feels like this is by design rather than a coincidence. In the face of more and more people coming forward with similar experiences, we are reminded by successive Governments just how insignificant we are and inconsequential dealing with poverty is to them. Every single year that we go without an anti-poverty strategy, we are being told that we do not matter. Whilst I am not naive enough to think it is straightforward or easy, we have waited long enough for the release and implementation of a fully-funded strategy. The reality is that poverty is a political choice."

Nicola Brogan (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

Inniu an Lá Idirnáisiúnta um Dhíothú an Fhoréigin in aghaidh na mBan. Maraítear bean amháin gach 10 mbomaite. Nuair a léigh mé an fíoras sin, a Cheann Comhairle, baineadh stad asam: maraítear bean amháin gach 10 mbomaite.

Phléigh muid go min agus go minic sa Teach seo an foréigean in aghaidh na mban. Chuala muid uilig go léir na scéalta agus na staitisticí. Táimid uilig ar aon tuairim gur gá rud éigin a dhéanamh faoin fhadhb seo, agus ina dhiaidh sin féin, leanann an foréigean ar obair gan chosc gan cheangal.

Is é rud a shíleann daoine go fóill gur rud fánach é an foréigean in aghaidh na mban. Cá bhfuil mar a shílfeadh duine ar bith sin, a Cheann Comhairle, nuair atá na Náisiúin Aontaithe á rá linn go maraítear bean amháin gach 10 mbomaite? Déantar mná a ionsaí sa bhaile, san ionad oibre agus ar líne - is cuma cén aois a bhfuil na mná sin ann. Is annamh a thugann siad tuairisc ar na hionsaithe do na póilíní. Ní ligeann an náire dóibh tuairisc a thabhairt, agus creideann cuid mhaith acu gur beag an difear a dhéanfadh sé cibé.

Is geal liom go bhfuil straitéis anois againn le deireadh a chur leis an fhoréigean in aghaidh cailíní agus na mban. Déanaimid ár ndícheall daoine a chur ag caint ar fhadbanna sláinte agus intinne. Caithfimid an rud céanna a dhéanamh anois leis an fhoréigean in aghaidh na mban. Abraimis amach. Ní binn béal ina thost. Maraítear bean amháin gach 10 mbomaite. Níl sé inleithscéil.

Nicola Brogan (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

[Translation: Today is International Day for the Elimination of Violence against Women. Every 10 minutes a woman is killed. When I read that fact, Mr Speaker, I was taken aback: every 10 minutes a woman is killed. We have often discussed in the House violence against women. We have all heard the stories and the statistics. We all agree that something needs to be done about the problem, and yet the violence continues unabated. There are actually people who still think that violence against women is a rare occurrence. How could anyone think that, Mr Speaker, when the United Nations tells us that every 10 minutes a woman is killed? Women are attacked at home, in the workplace and online – women of all ages. They rarely report the attacks to the police. Shame prevents them from reporting the attacks, and many believe that it would make little difference anyway. I am glad that we now have a strategy to end violence against girls and women. We do our best to get people talking about health and mental health issues. We need to do the same now with violence against women. Let us speak out. Silence is not golden. Every 10 minutes a woman is killed. There is no excuse for it.]

David Brooks (DUP, Belfast East)

Like many in the House, I spent some of this weekend dealing with residents in my constituency who had been affected by the flooding caused by Storm Bert. It has been a stressful time for them and their families. We know, especially in the mouth of Christmas, how they will feel, looking at their belongings that have been ruined by the water that got in. We need to step up and take action to assist them. I know that they are thankful for the contribution of the Minister for Communities, Gordon Lyons, who has quickly brought forward the emergency £1,000 payments. We know that those will go only a short way towards mitigating the losses that have been incurred, but they will be of assistance in the initial stages, and the residents of the area are thankful for that.

I thank the Northern Fire and Rescue Service for the huge effort that its personnel made to clear the water at Park Avenue in Dundonald. I thank the community groups and agencies that attended the scene. Crosspoint Church opened the church to allow affected residents to come in to get support from various agencies, and Dundonald Orange hall made the same offer. Staff from the British Red Cross, Lisburn and Castlereagh City Council, the local health trust and the Housing Executive all spent much of their Saturday as part of the emergency response to help residents who were in distress and families who could not, for quite some time, get access to residents who were stuck in their houses. I also thank the local businesses, including The Golden Chip and Café Nosh, that offered to feed those who were affected. In times like that, it is good to see communities coming together and rallying round to support those who have been most affected.

The issues in Park Avenue in Dundonald have been there for some time. In previous years, Joanne Bunting, Gavin Robinson and I, along with DUP council colleagues, have supported residents to get sandbags and so on as the waters rose. What they really want, however — their frustration came across at the weekend — is a permanent solution. When the river waters rise, they are left vulnerable. This incident was the worst for some years, but the water levels have been increasing and the warnings were there. I appeal to the Department for Infrastructure and the Minister for Infrastructure to investigate and find out what the problems are, because we need to see action. Ms Dillon said that the Minister is ready to step up. The residents of Park Avenue want to see that being delivered on. They want to see a permanent solution that means that they will not have to face this situation again this year or in the coming years. We need a permanent solution that can protect them.

Nuala McAllister (Alliance, Belfast North)

I rise to speak about the tragic death of Gary McMahon in North Belfast. On Thursday 21 November, he was cycling to work when his life was so tragically cut short. First, and most importantly, I express my condolences to Gary's family and friends and all who knew him. I, and many others, are very sorry for their loss.

North Belfast is one of the least-serviced constituencies when it comes to safe cycling infrastructure. We have plans, we have plans within plans and we have commitments, but we do not have action. My partner and I cycle the same route that Gary took, and, for the past two years, we have done so with our children on the back of my partner's bike. Anyone who cycles in North Belfast will see what has happened as not just a dreadful and tragic accident but something that, perhaps, could have been avoided. However, people still cycle in North Belfast and into the city centre. They still use the route through Carlisle Circus because they have no other option, despite there being plans and commitments over the years. Over the past few days, I have had contact from many people in the cycling community of North Belfast and wider afield, and there is a lot of anger because of the years of commitments.

The Department for Infrastructure needs to urgently prioritise North Belfast and, in particular, the Crumlin Road/Ballysillan/Oldpark scheme and the connection between the city and the Cavehill area. That is a dangerous route that is used by many cyclists every day. Those are not massive requests. We are not asking the Department to go to the ends of the earth; we are asking it to implement what has been on the table for many years. Perhaps, in the coming weeks and months, Gary's legacy could be that the Department for Infrastructure turns away from its car-centric attitude and implements the changes that we need to see. Those changes are happening across Europe and the world, and Northern Ireland is, yet again, being left behind.

The coming days and weeks will be very difficult for Gary's family and everyone who has been touched by the tragic accident. We need to ensure that the momentum that has been built leads to action. I will ensure, through everything that I do as an elected representative for North Belfast, that we see action.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

That concludes Members' statements. Quite a number of Members missed out this morning: if you try again tomorrow, hopefully you will get an opportunity.

Ministerial Statement

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

I have been advised that there were issues affecting the receipt of some emails this morning. That situation is being investigated. In the meantime, I asked the Department of Education to provide hard copies of this morning's statement to all Members in advance of the Minister making his statement. Members will find those at the doors to the Chamber.

Should Members wish, I will suspend the sitting for five minutes. If Members are happy, however, we will continue with the ministerial statement. I call the Minister of Education.

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

If the issue is at my end, I apologise. I am not sure whether the issue lies with the Department or the Assembly, but I am sure that your investigation will get to the bottom of it, Mr Speaker.

I am proud to announce a significant new initiative to fund and roll out defibrillators to all schools in Northern Ireland. The initiative is crucial for the safety and well-being of our society. The importance of having defibrillators in schools cannot be overstated. It will help to protect the lives of our young people, school staff and visitors. The initiative is designed to address the risk of sudden cardiac arrest. Sudden cardiac arrest can happen to anyone without warning. Whilst we know that it is more likely to occur in adults and older people, the heartbreaking reality is that young people are at risk too.

An automated external defibrillator (AED) saves lives by restoring the normal heart rhythm. Studies show that when a defibrillator is used within the first few minutes of a cardiac arrest, the chance of survival increases significantly. In fact, when CPR and defibrillation are provided promptly, survival rates can increase by as much as 70%. AEDs are cost-efficient, safe and easy to use, and they do not require specialist training. Having AEDs available in all schools will, quite simply, save lives. That is why I am investing over £700,000 of the funding from my new curriculum-led programme in the purchase and installation of defibrillators in all our schools, making sure that every school, from nursery to post-primary level, is equipped with that live-saving technology.

Over 600 schools still require defibrillators. A significant number of schools have already invested in defibrillators themselves. I assure those schools that my Department will fund the batteries and pads that are needed for the ongoing maintenance of their equipment. We will also fund replacement defibrillators for those schools when their current equipment needs to be changed. As we roll out the initiative, I urge every school to embrace this opportunity to enhance safety on their site.

Let me be clear: we cannot predict when a medical emergency will occur, but we can ensure that we are prepared. The initiative is not just about providing equipment; it is about building a culture of preparedness that complements our work in the school curriculum on CPR and awareness of defibrillators. CPR and awareness of the use of defibrillators have been mandatory elements of the school curriculum since 2022. To support the delivery of those elements of the curriculum, my Department has developed the community of lifesavers education programme in partnership with the Council for the Curriculum, Examinations and Assessment (CCEA), the Education Authority (EA) and the Northern Ireland Ambulance Service. That programme provides professional learning for teachers and resources and training equipment for schools. Over 500 teachers have been trained under that programme. In recent weeks, I also launched an interactive phone app that aims to build children and young people's confidence in developing vital CPR skills.

By raising awareness of the importance of defibrillators, we aim to make cardiac emergency an issue that schools are actively prepared to address. Having defibrillators in every school will provide a lifeline during moments of uncertainty, and I hope that knowing that help is close at hand will give our pupils, teachers and parents peace of mind. Today's investment is not just in schools: I hope that it will have a broader impact by providing vital equipment to our wider society. It is about building stronger and healthier communities. The defibrillators will protect visitors to schools, including local communities that use school facilities.

We will be working closely with the Northern Ireland Ambulance Service as we roll out the initiative, and I thank it for its support and advice.

All school defibrillators will be registered with the Circuit, the national defibrillator network, which provides NHS ambulance services with vital information about the location of defibrillators across the United Kingdom so that they can be accessed quickly to help save lives. In that way, school AEDs will become part of the community's emergency response infrastructure.

I am delighted to announce this life-saving investment. Together, we can create a future in which no life is lost simply because help did not arrive in time. All schools in Northern Ireland will have access to that vital, life-saving equipment by the end of the current academic year. The importance of defibrillators in schools cannot be overstated. They are life-saving instruments that can give children, staff and visitors the chance to survive a sudden cardiac arrest and continue to live a healthy, active life. Creating safer and healthier environments for our pupils is a top priority. We must prepare for the unexpected. Our schools must be equipped to respond to emergencies swiftly and effectively, because, when it comes to lives, every second counts. The funding will undoubtedly save lives. I am proud that we are taking this important step for the health and safety of our society.

Cara Hunter (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

I thank the Minister for his statement and warmly welcome it. Given that time is of the essence, is it possible to provide more than one AED for schools that are on a large campus or that have multiple buildings?

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for her kind remarks, which are appreciated. All Members will welcome the announcement, but it is made in recognition of the importance of providing such support in our school settings.

The Member is right to raise that issue. We carried out a survey, to which schools responded. A number of them already have an AED, and some of them have more than one, given the size of the school. We want to make sure that there is at least one in every school. Some schools have already invested in more than one AED because of the nature of the campus. My announcement is about ensuring that every school has at least one device, but the Member's comments are well made, given the size of some campuses. Should there be more provided? I want to make sure that all schools at least have one.

Nick Mathison (Alliance, Strangford)

I also welcome the Minister's statement. We speak a lot about scarcity of resource in this place, but the question of what price we put on a human life is relevant in this context. How will the Minister ensure that, in every school, we have the right number of people with the knowledge required to use the defibrillator safely and effectively, should it be needed?

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Chairman for his comments. He is right to highlight the question of what price we put on somebody's life. Today's announcement is about intervening as early as possible so that we can sustain life, enabling the patient to make a full recovery. In circumstances in which that intervention cannot be made, it can take longer to resuscitate, which can have far-reaching medical consequences that reduce a person's quality of life. It can also require significant investment by the health service in providing the individual with lifelong support. We are therefore very much taking forward an invest-to-save project.

AEDs are designed to make sure that they can be used without training. I have been in a number of schools and taken part in the resuscitation programme. The device is capable of making people alert to whether a shock should be applied to the heart or whether they need to continue with CPR, so it can be used in the absence of formal training. In schools, resuscitation is part of the curriculum. Our schools are teaching young people how they can obtain the necessary skills.

Many years ago, when I was at high school, I completed my St John Ambulance certificate in CPR training. That training still takes place. We have invested in a new app for CPR training. The roll-out of the defibs will raise awareness to higher levels, and their promotion in school settings will help CPR training to be prioritised.

Pat Sheehan (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as ucht a ráitis.

[Translation: I thank the Minister for his statement.]

I also welcome the initiative from the Minister. We are all very aware of the pressures on the Education budget. Did the Minister ask his colleagues in the Health Department to shoulder some of the burden of the cost of the devices?

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for his support for the project that we are taking forward. He is right to raise the capital pressures that exist in my Department and others. In advance of getting near the end of the financial year, I have already been saying to my Department, "Let's make sure that we're in a position where we can spend capital funding". As you approach four months to go, it is difficult to stand up new contractors to carry out electrical or building work. The ability of the private sector to respond to that kind of capital work makes it difficult to spend funding on other capital projects. However, we are able to use capital funding for devices such as these.

Health's finances are very stretched, so the initiative will be 100% funded by my Department. In conjunction with the work that we do with St John Ambulance, it will have a clear health benefit, but it also ties in with the curriculum. The basis on which I have been able to bring forward the initiative is that it is a curriculum-led capital programme. CPR is part of our curriculum, so it meets that criterion. It also has the wider benefit of positive health impacts.

David Brooks (DUP, Belfast East)

I thank the Minister for what, as he said in his statement, will be a truly life-saving investment. He has already covered the element of training, which I was going to ask about. When the devices are in place, will there be an effort, in collaboration with other Departments, to increase the wider community's awareness of their location?

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for those comments. He is right to raise the point about where they will be located. That is why we want every defib to be registered on the national network, the Circuit. Defibs in some locations have not been officially registered. If a defib is not on the national register, whenever you ring 999 and seek advice as to where the nearest defib is, the people at the end of the call will not be able to tell you, "It's at your local community centre", or, "It's at your school". That is why it is important that the devices be registered: it will help with accessibility.

Many schools have all of the security and fencing around them, but some do not. We will see whether the devices can be located on the external part of a school building so that they can be accessed by the community. Not every school will be able to do that because of fencing and the nature of the school's environment, but, where a school is open outside of school hours, I would very much like it if someone, responding to an incident in the wider community, were able to be directed to an accessible device on the external-facing part of a school building. As we roll out the project, we will seek to facilitate as much opportunity as possible for the community to avail itself of the devices.

Alan Chambers (UUP, North Down)

I declare a personal interest in the increasing roll-out of that great Northern Ireland invention. It is a piece of equipment that, you hope, will gather dust due to inactivity, but, when someone suffers cardiac arrest, the prompt deployment of a defibrillator increases the chance of complete recovery. I commend the ministerial initiative, and I thank the Minister for it. I am sure that he will agree that it will contribute to saving lives.

(Mr Deputy Speaker [Dr Aiken] in the Chair)

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

I call Cathy Mason.

Cathy Mason (Sinn Féin, South Down)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I —.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

Sorry. My apologies. Minister.

[Laughter.]

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

To be fair, that was more of a comment than a question.

[Laughter.]

I did not hear a question.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

My apologies to you, Minister, and to Mr Chambers.

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I acknowledge the Member's support. It is a life-saving device. We in Northern Ireland should be proud of it, because it was Professor Frank Pantridge, a native of my constituency, who invented the technology that brought about the first defib. His statue is proudly on display outside Lisburn and Castlereagh City Council's headquarters. It is an important device, and I am delighted that we are able to extend its roll-out across Northern Ireland.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

Now, Cathy, it is over to you.

Cathy Mason (Sinn Féin, South Down)

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I thank the Minister and welcome the statement. It is well known that school budgets are extremely challenging for principals and school leaders. Clearly, there will be an ongoing cost for the maintenance of the devices. Will you indicate what that ongoing cost will be and confirm whether principals will be expected to take it out of their budgets?

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

The Member is right to ask that question. In installing the devices, we will also undertake to meet the costs when batteries and pads need to be replaced, because those component parts require replacement before the device needs to be replaced. We will provide the support that is needed for the ongoing maintenance of the devices when they are installed.

Peter Martin (DUP, North Down)

I echo the words of others in the Chamber in welcoming the announcement. I am sure that school leaders will join us in that. That provision could well be life-saving for many of our children.

Will schools that already have a defib in situ, which means that they will not get a new one as part of the roll-out, receive any further support from his Department in that regard?

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for that question. We surveyed schools to find out the number that currently have the devices. Two hundred and ninety-seven schools have installed them already, which recognises their importance and the need for them that exists. For schools that have a device, we will undertake, as part of the roll-out, to replace their devices when their life cycle requires it or, indeed, the batteries and pads, which need to be maintained.

Those 297 schools responded to the survey to say that they already had a device. Having a device in school is why Oliver McGreevy's life was saved at the age of 14 when he was playing rugby at Methodist College. Only a number of weeks ago, I met Oliver when we launched the CPR training. He spoke to me about how he may not have been here, had that device not been available and had the people who were on the rugby pitch not known where to go to get it. Thankfully, Methody had one of the devices. Oliver is now back playing his sport. The recovery process that he has gone through has enabled have a very active life. He got the support that was needed at the time to save his life, and, because the device was applied to him, that enabled a much better recovery. When you meet people like Oliver — I also spoke to his father — you understand that that is life-changing. He may not have been here but is here because there was a defib in his school. I want to make sure that every school has such a device so that, if that happens again in other school, that pupil will get the same opportunity to have their life saved.

Michelle Guy (Alliance, Lagan Valley)

I echo the comments that have been made in welcoming the statement. Oliver McGreevy, whom the Minister has just mentioned, used to be a neighbour of mine. I know him and his family well. I cannot describe the shock that I felt when I heard what had happened to Oliver. I cannot even imagine what his family was going through. It will provide such reassurance to other families with kids with heart conditions like Oliver's that that life-saving resource will be in their schools.

How will schools be contacted ahead of the defibrillators being rolled out? Whom do they get in touch with, if they have any questions?

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

We carried out the survey to identify which schools have the devices and which do not, but not every school responded. We estimate that around 600 schools in Northern Ireland require the devices to be placed in them. All schools are able to avail themselves of the measure. We want this to be rolled out. Obviously, the Education Authority will now take forward the procurement exercise. That will be done in engagement with schools to ensure that those that need a device are able to receive one.

Danny Baker (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Thank you, Minister, for the statement on that important initiative. I suppose that you have sort of answered my question, which just follows up on the importance of the devices being registered. There were some in my community that were not registered. After we got them registered, they were used within a week to save lives. I know that you have spoken about this a wee bit, but how can we guarantee that priority will be given to making the devices accessible for community use outside of school hours? Schools are in the heart of our communities. The more devices we have, the more lives we will save.

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

The Member is absolutely right. Those unregistered defibs now exist in a number of areas, but we need to know where they are.

I run or try to run around Wallace Park in Lisburn, and I know that there is a defibrillator there because the council put it in and registered it. We need to make sure that they are accessible.

It speaks to the wider community response and the need for greater awareness. We all can tell stories of someone who had a cardiac arrest in whatever situation. There might be nervousness about how to respond and what to do. The benefit of defibrillators is that you do not need training. It is a challenge to all of us. When was the last time we updated our community resuscitation strategy? We have many community responders and community groups that have taken on the community responder role. That supplements the Ambulance Service in how it responds. All of us should ask ourselves, "If someone was with me right now and had a cardiac arrest, what would I do?". If you do not know the answer, that is a challenge: get yourself prepared. Where is the nearest AED? Have you been trained in CPR? CPR is critical if we are to make sure that we can try to save lives when a cardiac arrest happens.

Jonathan Buckley (DUP, Upper Bann)

The Minister will know that the roll-out of defibrillators has very much been community-led to date. With that in the mind, will the Minister join me in paying tribute to the 297 schools that, through PTA funding and community business funding, have supplied them? Will he outline the process by which schools will obtain their defibrillators?

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Yes, I pay tribute to them. In all our constituencies, community groups engaged in fundraising to provide the devices. Often, a family member has lost a loved one or a friend loses somebody close to them, and they then get actively involved. Why did this become a priority for me? Why did I want it to happen? It was through some of the engagement that I had with young people who spoke to me about friends who had a cardiac arrest and, on one occasion, lost their life. That lady is now actively involved in promoting CPR and creating awareness. I thank all those who raise funds and create awareness for what they do. We, as a Government, have to enable our communities to respond. This will be a good enabler of that.

The Education Authority will now carry out the procurement process. This is very much on track to be delivered so that every school will receive its device before the end of the academic year. By June 2025, it will be rolled out in every school. That will also keep us in line with, for example, England, where every school received a defibrillator in 2023. They recognised the importance of it, and I am glad that we have been able to do it as well.

Colin Crawford (UUP, North Antrim)

I join others in welcoming the announcement and thank the Minister for coming to the House to make it. Is the interactive phone app available now for pupils to download, and is it free?

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Yes, it is available. CCEA produced and developed the app. It helps to align the initiative with the curriculum, because CPR is part of the curriculum. I was at Methody a number of weeks ago when we launched the CPR app. I was able to see how it works on mobile phone devices to provide training to young people, who were then able to put that into real-world practice while I was there. Yes, the app is available, and it will complement having the defibrillators in schools. I very much hope that, while CPR is in the curriculum, bringing defibrillators into schools will help to generate a higher priority for the delivery of that part of the curriculum in schools.

Diane Forsythe (DUP, South Down)

I thank the Minister for his statement. In rural constituencies like my constituency of South Down, emergency services have further to travel in the case of such emergencies, so I welcome the initiative being rooted in schools. I hope that it will make a big difference to our communities. It is great to see it in Northern Ireland, but will the Minister outline the position in some other jurisdictions?

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for those comments. She is absolutely right to highlight the fact that, particularly in those rural localities, often there is only the school in the area, and therefore access to the devices will be important.

Where we can, I would like to see defibs being available, but they have to be in an environment where there is a constant temperature, and it is about what kind of box you would use to make sure that that happens. Allow the process to see how many of the devices we can locate externally to schools.

The Member asked about other jurisdictions. As I mentioned, in England, schools were provided with defibrillators in 2023. The Welsh Government offered defibs to all post-primary schools as well, but they have not been rolled by the Scottish Government or in the Republic of Ireland, where it remains a matter for individual schools. I am delighted that Northern Ireland has been able to do this. Not every other jurisdiction in the British Isles has taken it forward so far, but I very much hope that other countries will follow suit.

Colin McGrath (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

I welcome the excellent announcement, which builds on the work of the former Education Minister in ensuring that teaching CPR is included in the curriculum. There was quite a battle with the Minister before that and a threat of a private Member's Bill, but we got there and are building on it now, which is excellent.

I have often reminded Education Ministers that they are not just Ministers for schools but Ministers in charge of youth services. Will the Minister consider offering the scheme to full-time youth centres so that we can continue its spread? There is not a huge number of them, but it is always good to include them in the education family.

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for his comments and for the work that he has pursued on the issue. Again, he is right to pay tribute to Diane Dodds on the issue: in recent weeks, she has been pressing me about it. Michelle McIlveen was also involved, but Diane Dodds, only a number of weeks ago, raised in the Assembly the importance of having defibs. She engaged with me on that as well. It is an issue that all of us very much care about and want to see implemented.

I will come back to the Member about whether youth centres will be part of the scheme. I will follow up with the Member after the statement.

Justin McNulty (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

Minister, I warmly applaud you on your initiative to place life-saving devices and defibrillators in all our schools. With today's positive announcement, do you agree that it would be remiss not to recognise the importance of the work done by the Cormac McAnallen trust in the 20 years since his passing? Before his passing, not many of us knew about AEDs, defibrillators, resus and CPR. Since that, the Cormac Trust was set up in his name by his family, Brendan — RIP, sadly — Donal and Bridget, and hundreds of thousands of pounds has been spent on research and on placing defibrillators in schools. In many ways, the Cormac Trust was the genesis of defibrillators being available in sporting clubs and saving lives, saving lives, saving lives. It is important to recognise that today.

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I am more than happy to associate myself with the Member's comments about Cormac McAnallen and the work done over many years to highlight the issues. The tragic stories of sudden death on sporting fields have generated the interest that exists now in making sure that we provide the right support.

The Member is involved in sport. I am involved in sport and coach a number of clubs. When a participant in a club that I am in says to me, as a coach, "I have a heart monitor on; just keep a track of my heart rate", it makes me nervous about all of that. There is a challenge as to how, across schools, sporting clubs and society, we make sure that appropriate devices are available and accessible and that we are prepared with the skills that we need to intervene when something like this happens.

I absolutely associate myself with the Member's comments and pay tribute to the family as well.

Timothy Gaston (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

I join other Members in wholeheartedly welcoming today's announcement on ensuring that a defib is present in each school throughout Northern Ireland.

I want to pick up on the point, Minister, about how there are 297 defibs already in schools. This is a fantastic opportunity to work with those schools to ensure that each defib that is already in situ is also registered with the link. When schools purchased them previously, there was a tendency to keep them in-house and use them primarily for themselves. It will be a missed opportunity if we do not work with schools that already have them to ensure that they are registered with the link and that, where possible, with the promise of help with maintenance going forward, they are put in accessible places so that the community can use them outside of school hours.

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for those comments. He is right to highlight the necessity of making sure that the devices are registered on the national Circuit. That is absolutely vital. There is no point in having the device and only a small section of the community knowing about it. We need to make sure that they are all registered on the national Circuit because that can make a difference when somebody is in need of those devices.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

Thank you, Minister. Thank you, Members. That concludes questions on the statement.

Executive Committee Business

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

I beg to introduce the Agriculture Bill [NIA 08/22-27], which is a Bill to make provision for the modification of assimilated direct legislation in relation to aid in the fruit and vegetables sector and information and promotion schemes for agricultural products; and for connected purposes.

Bill passed First Stage and ordered to be printed.

Private Members' Business

Declan McAleer (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

I beg to move

That this Assembly recognises the vital role of the sheep sector within the agri-food industry, particularly as the primary farm enterprise in less-favoured areas; acknowledges that the carbon footprint of ewes in upland areas is 8% lower than that from ewes on lowland farms; further recognises the lack of support for sheep farming under the future agricultural policy, with farmers facing a 17% reduction in their basic payment scheme; and calls on the Minister of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs to outline his plans to support and safeguard the future viability of sheep farming.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

The Business Committee has agreed to allow up to one hour and 30 minutes for the debate. The proposer of the motion will have 10 minutes to propose and 10 minutes to make a winding-up speech. As an amendment has been selected and is published on the Marshalled List, the Business Committee has agreed that 15 minutes will be added to the total time for the debate.

Declan, please open the debate on the motion.

Declan McAleer (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

Thank you, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle. I welcome the opportunity to open the debate on a motion that acknowledges the vital role of the sheep sector in the agri-food industry, recognises the lack of support for sheep farming and calls on the Minister to outline his plans to support it. At the outset, I say that the debate is not just about sheep farming but about the future of our uplands, our rural communities and the very fabric of our countryside. It is a matter of protecting a way of life, preserving a vital industry and ensuring fairness to farmers who play an indispensable role in producing the food that we all rely on.

While we currently lack a ring-fenced budget for agriculture, it is, nevertheless, crucial to table the motion to establish a much-needed sheep scheme to support our farming communities. Farmers across the North have voiced serious concern about the absence of a proposed sheep scheme, and we must recognise the public good of using land for food production. As we face an era of global uncertainty in food supplies, the issue is about more than farming; it is about food security, economic sustainability and supporting the custodians of our land.

During a meeting of the Committee for Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs earlier this year, County Antrim sheep farmer and sheep task force member Campbell Tweed emphasised to the Committee the urgent need for targeted schemes, particularly those focused on improving flock performance and genetic merit. He highlighted the fact that such measures, which are already in place in the South of Ireland, could enhance efficiency, market competitiveness and environmental stability across our sheep farms.

The latest agriculture census figures for 2023 published by DAERA reveal some concerning trends in the sheep farming sector. The total number of sheep in the North has decreased by 3%, leaving a population of just over 2 million. That includes a 2% reduction in breeding ewes, with numbers falling to 973,718 compared with 2022. It is also worth noting that larger farms with more than 500 sheep, as of 1 June 2023, now account for 41% of the total sheep population. That concentration of sheep on larger farms underscores the pressures that smaller farming operations face in maintaining their flocks in increasingly challenging economic and environmental conditions. Those figures highlight the urgent need for a sheep support scheme for the sector. With sheep farming making a significant contribution to our economy and rural communities, we cannot afford to ignore the pressures facing farmers today.

It is essential that we ensure the sustainability and future of sheep farming. Sheep farming is not just a tradition; it is an economic lifeline. The two million sheep that we have in the North are part of an industry that plays a huge role in the agri-food sector — a sector that is worth £5 billion. Livestock marts, which are at the heart of that economy, are not just places of trade; they are vital hubs for farmers to meet, share knowledge and support one another.

Farmers here face significant disadvantages. From 2025, sheep farmers face losing 17% of their basic payment unless they change their practices to include the growing of protein crops or the integration of cattle into their systems. For many sheep farmers, especially those in upland areas, those changes are simply not workable due to the nature of their land, their businesses and the climate. We need urgent action to ensure that those farms are not unfairly penalised and left without viable alternatives. Trade deals with Australia and New Zealand, which import lamb that competes directly with our locally produced meat, have only added to the challenges. Meanwhile, farmers in the South have a sheep scheme in place, which gives farmers across the border a competitive advantage over our local farmers. That must be addressed.

The Ulster Farmers' Union has called for a sheep scheme to ensure fairness and support for our local farmers. Currently, 17% of the basic scheme will be modulated to pay for beef, carbon and suckler schemes, yet no funds are allocated to a dedicated sheep farming scheme. That inequity undermines the livelihoods of farmers in upland areas, where the climate and topography lend themselves naturally to sheep farming. The problem is compounded by the loss of the areas of natural constraints (ANC) scheme.

Sheep farmers in the North could increase profitability while reducing greenhouse gas emissions. According to research led by Dr Aurélie Aubry of the Agri-Food and Biosciences Institute (AFBI), drawing on findings from the 2022 'Net Zero and Livestock' report, practical strategies include genetic improvements, such as using estimated breeding values and cross-breeding, to boost productivity, as well as nutritional innovations like supplementing lamb diets with microalgae to cut methane emissions by up to 25%. AFBI's long-term research has shown that enhancing key traits, lamb output, ewe longevity and growth rates can help farms become more efficient, environmentally sustainable and profitable. Those innovations highlight the potential of sheep farming to be sustainable and profitable, but a dedicated sheep scheme is essential to provide the support and resources that farmers need to implement the practices effectively and fully realise the opportunities.

The role of sheep farming in our rural economy extends beyond food production. Sheep grazing plays a critical part in managing our upland landscapes, supporting biodiversity and maintaining the open areas that attract visitors and underpin our tourism industry. Supporting sheep farmers is not a contradiction to protecting our environment; it will complement it. Sustainable sheep farming can be a cornerstone of climate action while continuing to produce high-quality food. As a representative of a rural constituency, I see at first-hand the massive contribution that farming makes to our economy and communities, but farming is more than economics; it is a heritage and responsibility. Future generations will be the custodians of the countryside but only if farmers are supported now. If we do not back our farmers, we risk losing not just our livelihoods but the unique character of our rural areas.

The Minister, who is with us today, has a key role to play. It is important that the Department sets up a sheep scheme to provide direct support for farmers, levelling the playing field with the South of Ireland and safeguarding the future of this vital industry. Supporting our sheep farmers is not just about economics or tradition; it is about fairness, sustainability and our shared future. Let us ensure that our farmers have the tools that they need to thrive, contribute to our economy and continue as custodians of our countryside for generations to come.

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

I beg to move the following amendment:

Leave out all after "agri-food industry," and insert: "in all areas of Northern Ireland, particularly as the primary farm enterprise in less-favoured areas; acknowledges the role that practices that improve efficiency and resilience can play in reducing the carbon footprint of ewes across all land types; further recognises the lack of support for sheep farming under the future agricultural policy, with farmers facing a 17% reduction in their basic payment scheme; and calls on the Minister of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs, having had regard to the views and recommendations of the Northern Ireland sheep industry task force, to outline his plans to support and safeguard the future viability of sheep farming."

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

You will have 10 minutes to propose the amendment and five minutes to make a winding-up speech. All other contributors will have five minutes.

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. While sheep farming contributes 4% of total agricultural output, it plays an important role in the Northern Ireland economy. In Northern Ireland, there are approximately two million sheep, which includes around 973,718 breeding ewes. According to the 2023 sheep census, around 38% of farmers in Northern Ireland have sheep, and the value of the sheep industry output was £106 million. Beyond that, sheep farming activity makes a significant contribution to the wider rural economy. It is estimated that the sector has one of the highest output multiplier effects in the Northern Ireland economy, turning £1 of primary output into £1.80 of output across the wider economy. The services that support the activity include scanning and shearing contractors and those involved in veterinary services, feed production, property maintenance, haulage, auctions, markets, and slaughtering and meat processing.

In Northern Ireland, 38% of farmers have sheep. There are over 25,000 farm businesses in Northern Ireland, and sheep production is a significant contributor to over 9,800 of those businesses. As a result, a threat to the viability of sheep enterprise will have an effect on the sustainability of more than one third of farms in Northern Ireland.

From a recent debate, we know, in general terms, about the reduction in the basic payment to farmers. Specifically, however, by 2025, sheep farmers will lose 17% of the basic payment scheme. That 17% will go to a £50 million fund for a protein scheme, a beef carbon reduction scheme and a cow suckler scheme. In order to regain that lost 17% of their basic payment scheme, sheep farmers will need to change their businesses to include cattle or protein crops. Sheep-specific support was not included in DAERA's future agricultural policy of 2022. That policy stated:

"No further proposals for support to incentivise productivity in breeding ewes are brought forward at this stage. However, work will be undertaken to explore options for support that will improve the overall performance and resilience of the sheep sector. This will include work to explore how the sheep sector could be incentivised to provide baseline performance data to inform future sector support measures and to engage in a future Ruminant Genetics Programme."

In response to questions raised by a number of Members, Minister Muir stated:

"My officials are currently working to better understand the strategic needs of this sector and I will consider deploying levers to meet those needs. It is too early in the policy development process to give any indication of what might be included in any sheep scheme moving forward."

The Minister also said:

"Any decision to introduce new policies or programmes will be in the context of budget availability within the ear-marked farm support funding envelope."

We fully endorse the recommendations of the Northern Ireland sheep industry task force earlier this year. In particular, we believe that proper consideration needs to be given to developing new programmes that pursue genetic improvement in sheep, increase capital investment and encourage effective land management. I appreciate that the Minister has indicated that he is exploring various levers in that regard, and I urge him to maintain regular engagement with the task force to that end. The Minister has the benefit of the task force, which has not only produced evidence-based recommendations but given a voice to the sector as a whole, which is something that was not available to previous Ministers.

The task force has five key asks of the Minister: a sheep genetic improvement scheme; a sheep health and welfare scheme; a sustainable land management and biodiversity scheme; bespoke sheep capital investment measures; and a sheep research programme. Those asks are based on a number of findings that are set out in the task force publication, 'A vision for the development of the Northern Ireland sheep industry'. That document outlines the fall in the Northern Ireland breeding sheep population, as the previous Member to speak highlighted, by about 30% over the past 20 years. Structural change over the past 10 years has led to much smaller flocks. The task force also found that almost 60% of ewes were to be found in severely disadvantaged areas, such as uplands, where farming is more challenging but where sheep numbers have been better maintained.

Only 55% of animals are slaughtered in Northern Ireland, and only 40% of production remains within the jurisdiction. That is a huge amount of work and production that could be retained in Northern Ireland. Some 6% of our wool deliveries contain damaged wool, whereas the figure for the UK as a whole is 4%. The wool is damaged as a result of it being delivered wet or containing contaminants. Suitable on-farm management could address that problem, but, again, that needs support, guidance and investment. Reducing the amount of damaged wool would improve farm output at minimal cost. Of significant concern is the poor quality of the fleeces compared with those produced by counterparts in GB. That quality could be improved by careful genetic selection.

A genetic improvement scheme would increase the value of lambs produced for slaughter by around an additional £1 million if even half of them were produced using high genetic value rams. We can already see the importance of departmental intervention. It is disappointing that the Department was not able to identify any steps that could be taken. The creation of the task force and its contribution are extremely welcome and timely.

It is clear from what has been produced that there is a need to develop strategies that improve economic and environmental sustainability, but we recognise the need for there to be adequate centralised data. The data is lacking at farm level and at industry level, and that is something that needs to be addressed. Doing that will ensure that any future interventions are evidence-based, but it will also mean that such interventions can deliver maximum benefit.

I also ask the Minister to reconsider any plans that he may have to stop testing for maedi-visna (MV), given the implications that the disease could have for the industry. Although the motion focuses on the steps that the AERA Minister can take to provide support to and protect the future of the sheep sector in Northern Ireland, there is a wider responsibility, which extends to the Westminster Government. We have already heard and debated the changes to agricultural property relief and employer's National Insurance contributions, which threaten the future sustainability of our farm businesses and undermine our food security.

I said just last week that the Labour Government are now the existential threat to farm businesses. Although they may seek to deal with the multimillionaires who are trying to avoid inheritance tax, they are also sweeping away family farms. The Government are raising food prices so that the poor will get poorer, and they are hitting the working man in his pay packet via his shopping trolley.

Like with many parts of the agriculture sector, the sheep farming workforce needs younger people to join it. For that to happen, however, sheep farming needs to be profitable and attractive. It needs innovation, investment and fair taxation. I pointed out in last week's debate that the Government seem to have abandoned food security as a strategic national aim, and that needs to be addressed.

As I regularly point out, farm income has fallen by 47%, and that has been caused by rising input costs, such as inflation on energy, feed and workforce costs. On the horizon are the costs associated with the climate policies that the authors of the motion have endorsed. Those policies will affect all sheep farmers, whether in upland or lowland areas. The sheep sector needs support and investment, regardless of the area, and it is unfair and unacceptable to single out some areas over others. That is particularly true where the practical outworkings of the Climate Change Act (Northern Ireland) 2022 will potentially lead to a reduction in land available for farming across Northern Ireland.

Business income and profitability are broadly comparable for lowland and upland farms, yet farm businesses from disadvantaged and severely disadvantaged areas have received more financial support in recent years. For example, between 2018 and 2020, the environmental farming scheme (EFS) meant that only 705 out of 4,256 businesses were in receipt of support, and those were exclusively in lowland areas. Since the most recent reform of the common agricultural policy, the switch to a land-based payment has seen more funding under the basic payment scheme move from the lowlands to disadvantaged area and severely disadvantaged area land types. It is a scheme that the now First Minister introduced against official advice. She acted to extend those payments, but that could be done only temporarily, because the business case did not support a permanent change.

Agriculture support measures should not be in the business of taking money from farmers whose incomes are going down to supplement farmers whose incomes are going up. Rather than further regressive area-based payments, we want to see programmes that focus on efficiency and resilience in order to support productive, profitable and sustainable farms.

Finally, it is important that the Minister engage productively with the sheep industry task force to address the challenges being faced by the sector as a whole and to move the sector on to a more profitable and sustainable footing.

John Blair (Alliance, South Antrim)

It is my belief and that of Alliance colleagues that the motion provides us with an opportunity to reflect on the crucial role that the upland sheep farming sector plays in Northern Ireland. As a member of the AERA Committee, I have heard how upland sheep farming significantly contributes to the economic, environmental and social sustainability of areas of Northern Ireland. The presence of sheep farming in the upland areas helps maintain the landscape, promote nature recovery, increase biodiversity and restore natural habitats. It is an effective and sustainable method of utilising land that may not be ideal for other agricultural practices. It is therefore imperative that we recognise the unique contribution that our upland farmers make to lowering our greenhouse gas emissions and thereby to achieving the targets identified in the Climate Change Act.

As the motion references, research shows that the carbon footprint of ewes in the upland regions is 8% lower than that of their counterparts in lowland areas. That highlights the potential of our sheep sector to play a significant role in combating climate change. However, balancing the production of food and wool with environmental objectives presents challenges that add to existing significant issues. For example, sheep farmers across Northern Ireland face inflationary pressures: sheep prices rose by 55% from 2020 to February 2024. The recent report conducted by the sheep industry task force serves as an important resource for examining the current landscape and the future potential of the Northern Ireland sheep sector as a whole. The report highlights the specific challenges faced by sheep farmers in Northern Ireland while identifying opportunities for growth and improvement.

The AERA Minister informed the Committee that he had met the sheep industry task force to discuss the report, better understand the sector's strategic needs and explore potential future support measures for the sector. The unfortunate reality, however, is that, like other Departments, the Department faces tight budgetary and resource pressures. Furthermore, as has been mentioned numerous times in the Chamber in various debates, Westminster's decision not to ring-fence farm support budgets or adjust funding in line with inflation is severely impacting on our farmers, including upland sheep farmers. The in-turn effect on the Department is obvious. I will continue to support Minister Muir as he urges the Executive to allocate funding for agriculture, the agrienvironment, fisheries and rural development in the Executive's 2025-26 Budget and beyond.

While Alliance agrees with the motion in principle, we cannot ignore the challenging financial situation that we face. I am confident, though, that, when the Minister addresses the motion, he will express his openness to exploring potential solutions and will offer support, where possible. I am also confident that any future policies will align with the principles of sustainability and environmental protection. We in Alliance are content with the motion's aim and purpose.

Robbie Butler (UUP, Lagan Valley)

It is good to respond to the motion and the amendment, both of which are worthy of support, stimulate the conversation and exclude nobody. It is important that we highlight the critical role of the sheep sector in Northern Ireland's agri-food industry. As many of you will know from meeting those farmers, it is not just a livelihood for them; the sector is part of the very fabric and a cornerstone of our rural communities . It helps to knit together the economy, our environment and our heritage, particularly in less-favoured areas, where it is often the primary farm enterprise.

Sheep farming in upland areas not only supports local economies but provides environmental benefits, some of which have been spoken about. Studies from the Agri-Food and Biosciences Institute reveal that the carbon footprint of ewes in upland areas is 8% lower than that of ewes on lowland farms. The amendment allows us to say that, regardless of that, we should not exclude any sheep farmers, but the facts speak for themselves. It demonstrates the sector's potential to contribute to sustainable agricultural practices while maintaining the viability of less-favoured areas.

Despite sheep farming's significance, it faces considerable challenges under the future agricultural policy. Many sheep farmers are grappling with the imminent 17% reduction in their basic farm payment scheme, which has been a lifeline to many who struggled to maintain their livelihood. Financial pressures threaten the future viability of sheep farming and, consequently, the vital contribution that it makes to the agri-food sector and the environment. Miss McIlveen put on record very well the additional burden that all our farmers, particularly sheep farmers, face with the potential 17% reduction and the draconian Budget that the Labour Government have foisted upon farming, business and industry. I echo the calls in the motion and the amendment for the Minister of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs to outline a robust plan to support and safeguard the sector. We all must ensure that sheep farming not only survives but thrives.

The 2023 report of the Northern Ireland sheep industry task force was in our Members' packs. It is a vision for the development of the sheep industry, and it clearly outlines a path forward. The vision emphasises the need:

"to secure the long-term capability of the natural capital used in sheep farming and enhance the delivery of public goods. This includes carbon capture",

improved soil quality and better water management, all while:

"reducing greenhouse gas emissions from sheep production over the next decade",

and we know the benefits of sheep farming over other types of farming. To achieve that, individual farm businesses must be resilient. Economic viability is key to enabling investments and productivity gains through genetic improvements, better animal health and welfare and advancements in soil and grassland management. Those are not just aspirations but necessities, if the sheep sector is to continue delivering for our economy and our environment.

The challenges posed by diseases such as maedi-visna (MV) and bluetongue cannot be ignored. We must remain vigilant and proactive in safeguarding animal health, ensuring that our farmers are equipped with the resources and support needed to combat those threats. A lot of that will come down to their financial viability. At the same time, we must recognise the untapped potential for greater export opportunities. As a former butcher who tried to sell Irish lamb against New Zealand lamb, I know that there is no question about the quality of our product. Northern Ireland is renowned for high-quality sheep meat and wool. By investing in market access and branding, we can expand our reach to international markets and secure better returns for our farmers whilst showcasing the best of Northern Ireland on the global stage.

The environmental benefits of sheep farming are undeniable. Properly managed grazing supports biodiversity, enhances soil health and contributes to carbon sequestration. Those practices are not just beneficial but essential to our collective effort to address the climate crisis, as John Blair mentioned. It is heartening to see organisations such as the Ulster Farmers' Union and the National Sheep Association powerfully advocating for their members in the sector.

We must act decisively and collaboratively. I call on the Minister to engage with farmers, the industry and stakeholders and environmental experts to craft policies that provide tangible support so that the finances are not stripped out of our sheep industry. That will include financial assistance, investment in research and innovation and measures to improve market access and resilience for our sheep farmers.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

I welcome the opportunity to highlight the need to support and safeguard the future viability of sheep farming in the North. Sheep farming is an integral and important part of our agricultural economy, and it contributes around 4% of total agricultural output. In 2023, the sheep industry contributed £109 million to the Northern Irish economy. It provides a wide range of goods and services while playing a hugely important part in sustaining many of our rural communities.

Upland sheep farming in particular plays a vital role in less-favoured areas. It is often the only viable type of farming available on land that is not suitable for growing crops or raising cattle. It provides essential income and employment in those rural communities. As with other agriculture sectors, sheep farming faces the problems of an ageing workforce. In order to safeguard its future viability, it must be an attractive career option with pathways for new entrants and farm succession.

Despite the sector's importance, there was a lack of specific measures to support sheep farmers in the future agricultural policy for the North that was developed under the previous Minister. The Ulster Farmers' Union has expressed its concern that sheep farmers now face losing 17% from the basic payment scheme. It is concerned that funding for maedi-visna control measures has been withdrawn and that there is no more funding for the sheep scab scheme.

In January 2023, the sheep industry task force published a report identifying the sheep sector's needs and made proposals to encourage its development. I believe that the Minister and his officials met the task force to discuss the report, and I am sure that the Minister will respond to that. The Minister has indicated that he is keen to understand the sector's needs and will consider adopting proposals to meet them. However, that was in the context of ring-fenced farm support funding provided by the British Government. That would have been challenging enough; however, since Brexit, the annual funding for agriculture has been capped at approximately £330 million. To maintain its real value, the overall funding for agriculture should have increased to £389 million by now. That is a real-term cut in funding of around £60 million this year alone.

Following the British Government's autumn Budget, the situation has changed again. The new rules for inheritance tax on agricultural land pose a risk and, indeed, a big worry for many who are thinking of farm succession. Instead of managing our ring-fenced fund for agriculture, the Minister will now be faced with the dilemma of negotiating with his Executive colleagues for a share of the block grant. As I have said before and as, I expect, the Minister will repeat today, it was within the power of the Executive to ring-fence funding for agriculture locally. They could, if they wish, put additional funding within that ring fence to provide for the proposals brought forward by the sheep industry task force. If Members are serious in their concern —.

Justin McNulty (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Member for giving way. Does the Member agree that it is all well and good to note the needs of the sector and the struggles facing hill and sheep farmers but we need to see clear commitments and measures from the Minister and the Executive to assist and safeguard farmers, farming families and communities?

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

The Member has an extra minute.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

Thank you very much, and I thank the Member for his intervention. I get entirely what he says about loads of take-note debates but little rubber hitting the road when it comes to Executive action. That is exactly the point.

In that regard, if we are serious about that and seriously want to help farmers, Members and parties in the Chamber can do so. They can negotiate. The Minister can negotiate on our behalf. He has committed to doing that, and parties can call on their colleagues in the Executive to support the Minister's bid to ring-fence funding for agriculture locally. They should also lobby those colleagues to support the provision of any additional funding required for the proposals brought forward by the sheep industry task force. That is when we will see the colour of the money.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

Ladies and gentlemen, as Question Time begins at 2.00 pm, I suggest that the Assembly takes its ease until then. The debate will continue after Question Time, when the next Member to speak will be Emma Sheerin. Thank you. Take your ease.

(Mr Speaker in the Chair)

Oral Answers to Questions — The Executive Office

Tom Buchanan (DUP, West Tyrone)

1. Mr T Buchanan asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister for an update on the appointment of a Commissioner for Victims and Survivors. (AQO 1169/22-27)

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

The competition to appoint a new Commissioner for Victims and Survivors was launched on Monday 11 November. The appointment of the new commissioner is essential to inform the development of policies and help ensure that the longer-term needs of victims and survivors are addressed. That is a key priority for the Executive. We are keen that the new commissioner is appointed as soon as possible, and we encourage anyone who feels that they could fulfil the role, to apply. The closing date for applications is 12 noon on Friday 29 November, and we hope to appoint the new commissioner early next year.

The date of appointment may be impacted on by any notice period that the successful candidate is required to serve from their previous position. The appointment process is regulated by the Commissioner for Public Appointments and, as such, must comply with the code of practice for ministerial public appointments.

Tom Buchanan (DUP, West Tyrone)

I thank the Minister for her response. The Minister will be aware, through social media, of a sign that has been erected in Castlederg calling for the boycott of businesses and stating that there is "no alternative" to such a call. Does the Minister agree that that is an incitement to hatred and an attack on the minority unionist culture and the business community, and is further intimidation to that experienced by many innocent victims over recent years? Will she join me in condemning the action and calling on Derry City and Strabane Council to have it removed with immediate effect?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

Order. That is some distance from the initial question, but I will leave it in the hands of the deputy First Minister.

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Thank you, Mr Speaker. I know that the erection of such a sign will have caused significant hurt and distress throughout the community, but particularly to victims and survivors. I agree with the Member: it is absolutely wrong, and the council should remove it immediately. All intimidation is wrong and all sectarianism is wrong, and it is appalling to see that this is happening in 2024. I absolutely agree with the Member that we should stand united against the action. I welcome the fact that, across the House, Members have united in opposition to what has happened.

Linda Dillon (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Does the deputy First Minister believe that the commission is still beneficial and required, going forward?

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for her question. Absolutely. We know that many, many thousands of victims and survivors continue to carry the pain of injuries and the loss that they have suffered, and that many of them continue to mourn. It is also incredibly sad that, in recent years, we have seen continued hurt being brought upon victims and survivors by words and actions. That should stop; it must stop. Victims and survivors have suffered the most in this place over the decades since the Troubles, and we should be there to support and help them.

That is why it is important that we have a commissioner to champion the issues for victims and survivors, fight for additional support for those who are bereaved, for example, and help people navigate the like of the severely injured pension process. Of course, we also know that, sadly, many, many thousands of victims have not had justice. Therefore that fight continues, and we will be there to support them through it.

Timothy Gaston (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

A previous victims' commissioner Patricia MacBride caused outrage after being appointed when she described her terrorist brother as an "IRA volunteer" who was "killed on active service". Will the deputy First Minister advise the House why she did not veto her appointment to the Judicial Appointments Commission, given that views that endorse or express acceptance for violence and terrorism are not protected political opinions?

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for his question. The arrangements for appointing commissioners to the Northern Ireland Judicial Appointments Commission are set out in the Justice (Northern Ireland) Act 2002. I make it clear that that nomination was made by the Lady Chief Justice. Miss Patricia MacBride has served as a lay magistrate for the past 19 years since 2005, and continues to do so. Regardless of what I may or may not think of her views and opinions, clearly, in law, somebody's political opinion is not grounds to refuse a nomination.

Cathal Boylan (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

2. Mr Boylan asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister to outline what work is being done to realise the full potential of the Maze/Long Kesh site. (AQO 1170/22-27)

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for his question. We have been clear that we must build on the common ground that we all share to realise the potential of the site for the benefit of all. However, we recognise that that will require us to move with consensus and sensitivity. We are absolutely committed to working with the Maze/Long Kesh Development Corporation to achieve that. No decisions have yet been made about the future of the site.

Cathal Boylan (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the deputy First Minister for her answer. Can the Minister respond to this question about the regeneration of the site: will there be a need to improve the road connection?

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Absolutely. I say that as one of the MLAs for Lagan Valley in which the site sits. There is a recognition that that would require investment. Of course, we must move forward with consensus on the site. We must move forward in a way that does not cause any further hurt or offence from the site.

As regards any development of the site, if anybody has gone to the Balmoral show, for example, they will know the infrastructure challenges around the site. Indeed, in recent years, that has been improved significantly. I had the opportunity to speak at the rally against the family farm tax just last week at the site. Again, the infrastructure challenges around the site were clear to many of those thousands of people who attempted to attend that rally. Yes, of course, any future development will require significant investment in infrastructure.

Michelle Guy (Alliance, Lagan Valley)

In April, my colleague Sorcha Eastwood led an Adjournment debate on the Maze/Long Kesh site. In that, the First Minister remarked that you would get options from the board on how to proceed to unlock the potential of the site. What options did the board provide you with on how to unlock the potential of the site, and how will you proceed?

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for her question. I understand that the Member attended the site and spoke with the board there just last week.

As outlined in that debate, there will be a process of engaging with the board in relation to its views on the way forward. The board was appointed just recently. Its members have been in now for a number of months. I have no doubt that they will look at the previous plans and proposals and will look to revise those. Key to that is ensuring that we maximise what is already there: the very successful Balmoral show; housing the Royal Ulster Agricultural Society (RUAS) and the Ulster Aviation Society, which is going from strength to strength and had 7,000 visitors over the Heritage Open Days weekend, which is an incredible testimony to its many volunteers and the wonderful collection that it has there. I urge anybody to go down and visit there. Of course, the Air Ambulance has been called out over 4,000 times since it took up position at the site in 2017.

There is much to work with, and we look forward to hearing those proposals developed by the board and to considering them in due course.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

Previously, it was said that the business plan would be revised now that the outcome of the internal relocation exercise is known. Will the deputy First Minister provide us with an update on that work, please?

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Absolutely. The Member is absolutely correct. A draft business plan was submitted, but it included some aspirations around further works that would be required. Most of those were to do with health and safety and the protection of the site. As the Member will be aware, the budget is incredibly difficult, and many of those bids were not met. Therefore, the board is revising that business plan, which we hope to get very shortly. The board will have had some confirmation of the budget envelope within which it is working, and it will be looking at that and prioritising what works. The board is subject to a number of legal obligations, particularly because of the health and safety requirements at the site and, of course, the listed status of the buildings when it comes to basic maintenance and protection. The board is looking at the business plan, and we hope to get it very shortly. I suspect that that will be in the next number of weeks.

Paul Frew (DUP, North Antrim)

3. Mr Frew asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister for an update on their meeting with Vaccine Injured and Bereaved Support — Northern Ireland (VIBS-NI). (AQO 1171/22-27)

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

We met Vaccine Injured and Bereaved Support on 10 July 2024. The group shared its concerns and experiences with us in what was a powerful and emotive meeting. We thank those people for being so open with us about their difficult and painful experiences. We know that it was not easy for them to come along and tell of their personal experiences. On behalf of the group, we wrote to the Minister of Justice to raise an issue about coroner’s inquests and the group’s concerns about a number of investigations that have been identified as being related to COVID-19 vaccines. We have also written to the Minister of Health to ask him to consider issues around care pathways for those who are suffering from health issues that are, potentially, related to COVID-19 vaccines. We understand that the Minister of Health has since met the group. We hope that that will lead to further understanding of the wider issues for all those who are affected.

Paul Frew (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the deputy First Minister for her answer, for meeting Vaccine Injured and Bereaved Support and for the actions that came out of that meeting. She may not be aware that not only does VIBS-NI operate and do sterling work in Northern Ireland, but there is a new charity called UKCV Family, which represents all the vaccine injured and bereaved throughout the United Kingdom and is helping a growing number of people in Northern Ireland.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

May we have a question, please, Mr Frew?

Paul Frew (DUP, North Antrim)

UKCV Family has reached out to contact the First Minister and the deputy First Minister. Will the deputy First Minister give a commitment to the House that she and the First Minister will reach out to the UKCV Family charity?

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for his question. The Health Minister takes the lead on those issues, but, of course, it is important to speak directly. We will certainly look into that. I do not believe that we have received a request, but, if we have, we will certainly look at it. It has been incredibly powerful to hear first-hand stories from those who have been impacted on. There is a compensation scheme, but I know from speaking to many of those people that it is a very frustrating process. The UK Government need to do more to take another look at that scheme, to make it much easier to apply to, to lower the thresholds and to look at the criteria in order to make sure that those who need that support, through no fault of their own, are able to access it in a more timely way.

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Will the deputy First Minister detail what further support she and the First Minister may be able to provide?

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for her question. The support that we can give will be, largely, through the Health Department. However, as I mentioned, we wrote to the Minister of Justice and the Minister of Health to pick up a number of the issues and, quite frankly, the frustrations about not getting answers that were expressed by many people around that table. The lack of a care pathway and many others are medical issues that require medical interventions. We urge the Health Department, through the trusts, to give clear medical pathways to support people. It is fundamental that GPs and others who first engage with people who have injuries are aware of what those injuries could be and treat those people with the absolute dignity and respect that they deserve. Many people have felt that that has not happened in the past; we need it to happen as we move forward.

Nicola Brogan (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

4. Miss Brogan asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister for an update on the investment strategy for Northern Ireland. (AQO 1172/22-27)

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

The investment strategy proposes a positive vision for the next 30 years, including detailed plans for investment and enabling actions over the next decade. It encompasses all areas of public infrastructure and includes a framework for planning and prioritising infrastructure investment. It also sets out the outcomes that are required of that investment and the mechanisms that are needed to ensure its efficient and effective delivery. We are considering the draft investment strategy, after which we hope to be in a position to bring the strategy to the Executive. We expect that to happen in parallel with the final Programme for Government. Approval of the final investment strategy will, then, be a matter for the Executive.

Nicola Brogan (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

Gabhaim buíochas leis an leas-Chéad Aire as a freagraí go dtí seo.

[Translation: I thank the deputy First Minister for her answer.]

She will, no doubt, agree that investing in infrastructure is key to growing our economy. Can the deputy First Minister, therefore, outline how she will ensure the successful delivery of the investment strategy?

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for her important question. Investment in good infrastructure of the right type is an absolutely critical foundation of growing our economy and the delivery of public services in Northern Ireland.

Day in, day out, we see the challenges that public infrastructure can bring to service delivery and the impact that it can have on people's everyday lives.

We are determined that, through the investment strategy, we will tackle some of the big issues that have been barriers to delivery. That includes a very particular set of pieces of work, carried out by the Strategic Investment Board, to look at improvements to the business case process, the procurement process and, importantly, the planning process. We know that those three key issues can significantly slow down capital projects and investment.

I have said previously in the House that it is clear that if a project takes longer, it will cost more. When capital projects cost more than originally projected, we cannot do as much with the capital money that is left, which means that we will never reach our potential or achieve our aspirations. Improving the process is a huge part of our ability to deliver, and we are really focused on that.

Deborah Erskine (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

On 'The View', the Infrastructure Minister did not recognise the Northern Ireland Water figure that 19,000 developments cannot be connected due to capacity issues. We know that the connection problem is an issue for housing associations that are trying to get houses onto the system. The draft housing strategy will be coming forward. How can we ensure that money is ring-fenced for Northern Ireland Water capital infrastructure projects, which will be vital to delivering our Programme for Government commitments.

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for her question. That will be key to delivering against the nine priorities, which have been set out in the Programme for Government. In the public consultation, there was a very positive response to all nine priorities, but the Member is absolutely right that, if we are to achieve those priorities, we need to invest in infrastructure. The lack of such investment is a barrier.

Frankly, we know what the challenges are. It is important that we work together and get into problem-solving mode on all those issues, drive forward transformation of the process, ensure better implementation and delivery and — the Member was absolutely right to say this — get the right investment in the right place to ensure that we unlock the potential. A key priority is to build more social and affordable housing. We will only be able to do that if we fix the challenges that we have with water and sewerage. We want to work with Northern Ireland Water. We want solutions, not a computer-says-no approach. That will require investment, it will require us working with NI Water, and it will require NI Water to step up to look at those solutions and implement that change.

Paula Bradshaw (Alliance, Belfast South)

I was at the Northern Ireland Chamber of Commerce and Industry president's banquet dinner last week, as was the deputy First Minister, Sinéad and others. That was a wonderful occasion, and you spoke, deputy First Minister, about the investment strategy. There was such a can-do attitude in the room. To what degree will the private sector be able to drive prioritisation of the investment strategy?

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for her question and commend the NI Chamber of Commerce and Industry for a very successful event. When I said, "Computer says no", it was the event on Thursday night that jumped into my mind.

The Member is absolutely right about there being a can-do attitude. There is optimism throughout the business community in Northern Ireland. The Budget was very challenging for the business community, and I am sure that, like me, the Member picked that up from many of the businesses at the banquet. They have concerns about issues such as the increased National Insurance contributions for employers. My key message on Thursday night, which we need to work on, was about our determination and my determination to work hand in hand with the business community, because economic growth unlocks the potential of this place and helps with our public service delivery and our core public services. Of course, with economic growth comes better jobs, good jobs and the investment that we want to see in every part of Northern Ireland. We should be working very closely with the private sector and the business community to find solutions to the challenges that we face, push through that vision of optimism and see the tangible application and implementation of the changes that the business community wants to see.

Matthew O'Toole (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

Minister, when you were at the dinner on Thursday night — I do not begrudge you a night out — the Infrastructure Minister was on TV explaining that he does not think that there are fundamental challenges with how NI Water is funded. Clearly, there are, in that houses are not being built and major infrastructure developments in this region are being completely slowed down. You just said to your colleague that there needs to be practical action, and you just said to Paula Bradshaw —

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

Have you a question, Mr O'Toole?

Matthew O'Toole (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

— that we need to move from optimism to delivery. What does that look like? When will we actually see plans from the Executive —

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

Deputy First Minister.

Matthew O'Toole (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

— on how they will meaningfully increase the funding for Northern Ireland Water? At the minute, it is just words.

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for his question. When I spoke at the NI Chamber dinner, I was representing the Northern Ireland Executive and showing our support for the vital work that our business community does. Over 1,000 people gathered at that dinner on Thursday night. It was a good opportunity for us, and for me on behalf of the Executive, to emphasise how important it is for us to work in partnership and in collaboration. In fact, our doing so is absolutely essential if we are to have that economic growth.

As was indicated earlier in response to another question, we are specifically looking at taking a number of key actions, which include making improvements to planning, procurement and business case processes. Those are all process aspects, but they really slow down the delivery and implementation of our capital programme.

In addition, we have extended the period of the investment strategy. Rather than have just a 10-year period, we are looking to extend the strategy to 2050. For the first time, we will therefore have an investment strategy that looks to the longer term — 30 years — and allows for such planning.

We have seen the Budget reset by the UK Government. The Budget largely focused on revenue. We anticipate that there will be an announcement about the Government's capital plans, and not just their plans for the next year but plans that set out their vision for the future. We are therefore hopeful that additional capital will be available, but we need to utilise it in a way that makes a meaningful difference. That means tackling the issues with water and sewage. It means having the right plan and making sure that the capacity is there to deliver it and that the implementation process is fit for purpose.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

Question 5 has been withdrawn.

Ciara Ferguson (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

6. Ms Ferguson asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister for an update on the review of Together: Building a United Community (T:BUC). (AQO 1174/22-27)

Nick Mathison (Alliance, Strangford)

13. Mr Mathison asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister to outline the changes that they have identified for a future good relations strategy. (AQO 1181/22-27)

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

With your permission, Mr Speaker, I will answer questions 6 and 13 together.

As Members will be aware, the Together: Building a United Community strategy reflects the Executive's commitment to improving community relations here between people of different political, ethnic and religious backgrounds. Since its launch in 2013, we can all recognise that considerable progress has been made, with a number of headline action targets having been fully achieved. Progress continues to be made towards meeting other targets in often complex areas of work.

We know that work remains to be done, however, and we want to ensure that our approach to good relations meets the needs of everyone in our society. We acknowledge that, since the first T:BUC strategy was launched, our society has become increasingly diverse. There is therefore a need to ensure that our approach to good relations effectively engages all those who live here and, in turn, creates a truly united society.

The final draft of the Together: Building a United Community review's report is under development by officials. We expect recommendations to be submitted to us shortly. Those recommendations will help shape the starting point for designing a refreshed approach to good relations and inform the timeline for its development.

Ciara Ferguson (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

I thank the deputy First Minister for her answer. What will be the impact of the inclusion of the cross-cutting commitment to "Peace" in the draft Programme for Government?

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for her question. Sadly, we see instability globally. We see a lack of peace and how that has such a detrimental impact on any place. Indeed, it remains the case for here. We absolutely need there to be that underlying peace agenda in everything that we do. That is why we made the decision that, for Northern Ireland, there would be a cross-cutting, underlying mission to ensure the stability that allows us to deliver. Moreover, that is why, since I came into post, we have been working incredibly hard to create that stability to allow the Northern Ireland Executive to deliver. If we are to deliver against our Programme for Government commitments and meaningfully change people's lives for the better, we need that stability and a united approach to driving positive change.

Nick Mathison (Alliance, Strangford)

Is there an acceptance in the Executive Office that sectarianism and racism are two sides of the same coin and that, on that basis, there is a need for a fundamental review of good relations policy?

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for his question. There are similarities, no doubt. Very often, such sentiments are based on prejudice, bias and a lack of understanding. There are many similarities, but there are also a number of differences. It is important that any approach taken on the way forward be sufficiently nuanced to take into account and understand the impact on people and to provide support and help. We can tackle the underlying issues through prevention, education and the projects that I mentioned. What it is that we need to do is to make sure that we include everyone across society so that everyone feels that they can play a positive role as part of our united community moving forward.

While I agree with him to some extent, there are aspects that require a distinct and particular approach while we gather all of that together under our overarching aim of building a united community.

Gary Middleton (DUP, Foyle)

I agree with the deputy First Minister: a lot of good work has been done through T:BUC . Does she agree that any review needs to ensure that programmes reach those who are often harder to reach, including Protestant/unionist/loyalist (PUL) communities in my constituency of Foyle?

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for his question. It is incredibly important that people in every part of our society feel that they can play a positive role moving forward, no matter where they are from, what they believe, what their background is or what their identity is. That absolutely includes those from the loyalist community, who often have been and are vilified without good reason. Many in the loyalist community play an incredibly important role in communities and organisations, and they will play a positive role in the future of this place. The Member is absolutely right.

One of the characteristics of the recent challenges that we had on the streets was that many of the people who were engaged in that activity were not involved in those projects and organisations. Therefore, it was difficult to speak with those young people in particular to encourage them to come off the streets and get involved in more positive projects. That is the coalface of that type of work, and we need to engage with those young people, no matter how difficult it is. We are determined to support the fantastic organisations and agencies that work at the coalface to really support and bring about peace.

Declan Kearney (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

7. Mr Kearney asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister to outline the next steps for the Programme for Government 2024-27, following closure of the consultation. (AQO 1175/22-27)

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

The consultation on the draft Programme for Government closed on Monday 4 November. In total, 1,375 responses were received. Work is ongoing to analyse all the responses received and produce a consultation report for consideration by the Executive. Once that has been considered, we will finalise the Programme for Government and bring it to the Assembly for cross-community approval.

Declan Kearney (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

Gabhaim buíochas leis an leasChéad Aire as ucht a freagra.

[Translation: I thank the deputy First Minister for her answer.]

Minister, will you confirm that measurable targets will be contained in the final version of the PFG?

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Absolutely, there will be measurable targets in the Programme for Government. It is important to say that we know that the Budget at the moment is challenging. We are working hard with, for example, the Health Minister, the Minister of Education and others to ensure that there is a satisfactory outcome on public-sector pay settlements. We know that there is huge pressure on the Budget in doing so, and it is likely to be the same next year. The key thing is that we set targets that are realistic but have some aspiration about them. The targets also need to be scalable so that, when additional money is available, we will be able to grow our ambition by resetting those targets and increasing what we need to achieve. We are actively looking at that, and targets will be set out.

Sinéad McLaughlin (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

Deputy First Minister, recently, at the Executive Office Committee, your lead departmental official was unable to outline what type of targets will be measured. Are you able to give us any specifics on the measurements that you will look at? The official was also unable to talk about the type of measurements that will ensure that there is balance throughout Departments when it comes to commitments in the Programme for Government.

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I did not watch that evidence session, but the targets will be measured in two ways. First, they will be measured against the set of well-being indicators. That will involve measurement against a set baseline, and improvements against that indicator will then be monitored and reported continually. All of that will be available online. It is currently live online, but, of course, some of those indicators will evolve and change, depending on the final Programme for Government. That will show real and meaningful progress against a wide range of targets and indicators set down in the well-being framework.

The second way in which they will be measured is through the specific targets against each of the priorities. The official may not have been able to give you the specifics because those will, of course, be led by the Ministers who lead on each priority. For example, for health waiting lists, that will depend on the budget that is received and then on what comes back from the Health Minister on specific targets. It will be similar for social and affordable housing, which the Minister for Communities will bring forward and lead.

The key thing for us will be to ensure that there is consistency in the types of target that are set down and that they are realistic, can have an associated budget within the difficult budget envelope that we have and are deliverable.

Justin McNulty (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

8. Mr McNulty asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister to outline what representations they have made to the British Government to impose sanctions on and encourage divestment from the state of Israel. (AQO 1176/22-27)

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for the question. Enhancing our reputation and relationships internationally has been and will continue to be of vital importance. That is at the core of our international work. However, we must stress that foreign policy is a reserved matter for the United Kingdom Government. Therefore, we have had no engagement on the matter.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

That draws to a conclusion the opportunity for listed questions. We now move to topical questions.

Matthew O'Toole (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

T1. Mr O'Toole asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister whether, if the independent review panel that the Minister of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs has appointed recommends, as multiple reviews have done, the creation of an independent environmental protection agency, they and their parties will support an agency being delivered in law. (AQT 781/22-27)

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for his question. We will look at that when the panel reports back.

Matthew O'Toole (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

That is admirable concision from the deputy First Minister — I heard a lot of words during the previous part of the questions session — but it is clear that we are failing on climate and the environment. There is precious little ambition in the Programme for Government or more broadly from the Executive. We have seen the impact of climate change in the flooding of recent days. This is not a theoretical, lefty obsession; it is real and is affecting homes and businesses across the region.

Deputy First Minister, are you committed to dealing with climate change? Will you commit that, if there are substantive proposals to bring forward an independent environmental protection agency, meaningful carbon budgets and a climate action plan, you will do your job and make sure that they are supported and implemented and can get through the Executive?

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for his question. The House passed legislation that sets down targets. Those targets are a legal requirement. Of course, everything that we say is said in that context. It is important to say that any of the proposals, including an independent environmental agency or body, will not be the silver bullet on the issues. Those agencies exist elsewhere, and there are still significant environmental issues. It would be entirely wrong of me to prejudge the outcome of that report. As I said, I will look at that report when it is produced and make decisions on it, depending on what it says.

Alan Chambers (UUP, North Down)

T2. Mr Chambers asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister to confirm whether, given that he understands that it was the previously stated position of their office and the Executive that health was their number-one priority, that is still their position. (AQT 782/22-27)

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for his question. In trying to ensure that everyone in Northern Ireland can live a healthy and thriving life, the health of people throughout Northern Ireland is such a critical issue not just because of the pain that people suffer when they are on a health waiting list but because of the impact on the economy of people having to come out of employment or being unable to go back into employment because they are on a waiting list. I absolutely assure the Member that we need a transformation of the health service. I want to see that transformation of the health service. I want to see the NHS here work for everyone. We have put that firm commitment at the heart of the Programme for Government, and, indeed, by working hand in hand and shoulder to shoulder with the Health Minister, we will try to ensure that there is transformation and change to bring down the waiting lists and improve outcomes for people.

Alan Chambers (UUP, North Down)

I take it from that answer, Minister, that health is still your first priority. I am sure that the Minister will agree that avoiding industrial action this winter is essential. What conversations has she had with the Health Minister to find a solution to the budget shortfall that is denying health staff the pay awards that they have been promised?

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for his question. It is incredibly important that we do everything that we can to ensure that our public-sector workers receive fair pay. When the Budget settlement was announced, I set it out clearly that we knew that it would be very difficult for all Ministers but particularly for Departments that have a significant public-sector pay pressure. That included the Department of Education and the Department of Health. I assure the Member that, along with the First Minister and the Finance Minister, I have met the Health Minister on a number of occasions to assure him of our support in what he is trying to do. Doing everything in our power to get to the right outcome is a key piece of work for us. We wanted to emphasise to the Health Minister that he is not alone in that fight and that we will work hard with him and do everything that we can. That remains my commitment.

Linda Dillon (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

T3. Mrs Dillon asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister for an update on what the Executive Office has done to date in relation to violence against women and girls, given the fact that today begins 16 Days of Activism against Gender-based Violence. (AQT 783/22-27)

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for her important question, particularly on this day. Today marks White Ribbon Day, known as the International Day for the Elimination of Violence against Women and the start of a period known as 16 Days of Activism against Gender-based Violence.

From the outset, the First Minister and I made tackling violence against women and girls a key priority. The rates of violence against and murders of women and girls in Northern Ireland are far too high. We recognise that it will require us to work collaboratively with agencies, the PSNI, schools, families and communities. The best way to do so will be through prevention. That will not be a short-term issue. It will not be done tomorrow or next week, as, I know, the Member is well aware. I was pleased that we were able to produce not just our strategy on ending violence against women and girls but the associated action plan. We have £3 million over the course of the remainder of this year and next year from the challenge fund and the change fund. That is not the totality of our aspirations, and it will not solve all issues, but we believe that it is a valuable start to working together to tackle the scourge of violence against women and girls.

Linda Dillon (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Thank you. Are you confident that other Ministers, such as our Education Minister, Health Minister, Communities Minister and AERA Minister, have all bought in to the strategy and are investing where they can to ensure that the scourge of violence against women and girls is not only ended but prevented at the other end?

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Absolutely. There are a number of elements, not least from the Minister of Justice's perspective, when it comes to speeding up justice, and the Education Minister's perspective on the really important preventative work that can happen in schools and the youth club sector. Of course, every Minister has a role to play. That is why I was particularly pleased that our strategy and the associated action plan were endorsed by the entire Executive and that it is an Executive programme. Of course, the Executive agreed to ring-fence that initial £3 million. I was also particularly pleased that our launch of that strategy coincided with the Department of Justice and the Department of Health's joint domestic and sexual abuse strategy. We know that domestic violence is not just a female issue. There are particular issues on that, and it is right that we have that dedicated strategy, but tackling domestic violence is an issue that goes right across.

Stewart Dickson (Alliance, East Antrim)

T4. Mr Dickson asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister for an update on the action the Executive Office has taken, following the motion passed by the Assembly on 12 November, on the comprehensive review of the appalling racist attacks in Northern Ireland in July and August and the subsequent sporadic attacks. (AQT 784/22-27)

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

The Member was present last week — I think it was last week — when I responded to the debate on that very important issue. I outlined a number of strands of work that were taking place, led not just by the Executive Office but by a number of Departments and agencies. After the debate, we had a discussion in the Department about pulling many of those strands together into a comprehensive review with the aim of identifying the very things that were talked about in the debate. We hope to give an update on that in due course, but the work has commenced.

Stewart Dickson (Alliance, East Antrim)

Deputy First Minister, on 12 November, the Assembly called for a short, sharp review. Will the review be completed by the end of the calendar year?

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I indicated in my response to that debate that a significant amount of the work had already commenced. The PSNI, for example, was also looking at what it could do. We have been working with community organisations on the ground. Some of the areas were within our Urban Villages areas under Together: Building a United Community. We are looking to see what more we can do to reach out. We are conscious that many of the young people who were caught up in those events are what we describe as "hard to reach". Those young people are not participants in many of the projects on the ground, but that does not mean that we cannot and should not try our best to ensure that we can engage with them. That probably requires a different approach, but we are very much looking at that to try to take it on and change the outcomes for the better in those areas.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

Mr Delargy is not in his place.

Danny Donnelly (Alliance, East Antrim)

T6. Mr Donnelly asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister what role the Executive Office will have in ensuring that the priorities set out in the Programme for Government, such as reducing waiting lists, will be achieved. (AQT 786/22-27)

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

We play a key role, because, as outlined during the consultation process, we made clear that the draft Programme for Government priorities were not the totality of what government would do. In each Department and, indeed, with cross-departmental work, a huge range of additional activities will take place. What is in the nine priorities in the draft Programme for Government represents a smaller number of key things that will be driven by the Executive in collaboration with the Ministers. Indeed, we are creating an internal delivery unit approach, which is an approach that has been proven to work elsewhere. The unit will give particular and focused attention to change and to achieving the targets that we hope to achieve under each of those priorities. It will be a new approach, but we believe that it is required, because, frankly, if we keep doing what we have always done, we will keep getting the results that we have always got. We want to genuinely make a real difference to delivery.

Danny Donnelly (Alliance, East Antrim)

I thank the deputy First Minister for that answer. How will the public and, indeed, Members be reported to? Will there be regular reports to the Assembly, or will reports be released?

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

As outlined earlier, a key part of that will be our well-being framework and our well-being indicators. A significant number of indicators will be updated live in real time to show progress against the priorities. Some of those will report quarterly. It depends on how the baseline is measured, but there will be a range of indicators. Those will be open to the public, and people can pop on at any time, look at what is happening and see the direction of travel and whether we are turning the curve against some of the key ones.

I believe that the Committees will have a key role in looking at the targets against the particular priorities led by a Department. However, it is important to say that we do not want this to fracture into silos. They are Executive priorities and therefore will require an all-Executive approach. Of course, key to that will be the Executive prioritising any additional flexibility in the Budget towards meeting the targets on those nine key priorities.

Colin Crawford (UUP, North Antrim)

T7. Mr Crawford asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister how the Executive Office is working to promote social inclusion for under-represented communities in Northern Ireland. (AQT 787/22-27)

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Work is under way. A number of our equality areas of work, such as equality strategies for older people and people with disabilities and strategies on gender, have moved to the Department for Communities. That Department takes a lead on bringing forward most of our social inclusion strategies now, but, of course, at the heart of the Programme for Government will be the principle that we want everyone in Northern Ireland to be able to succeed regardless of their characteristics, where they live or where they come from. It will be key that the implementation of that is entirely mainstreamed. The way that we roll the projects out, in terms of both the revenue and, importantly, the capital investment, must be done in a way that benefits all communities and must be designed in a way that takes into account a number of those key characteristics.

Colin Crawford (UUP, North Antrim)

Thank you, deputy First Minister. Can you update us on any new initiatives aimed specifically at enhancing support for marginalised groups?

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Yes. There has been a commitment to bringing forward those social inclusion strategies. They will be tailored to those particular groups and are loosely based on each of the section 75 groups. The Department for Communities takes the lead on that, and I know that a significant amount of work is already under way. From our point of view in the Executive Office, we deal with a number of groups that have been and continue to be marginalised, not least victims and survivors, for example, and, in that area, we have dedicated funding through our Victims and Survivors Service.

We also approach that work through a number of different commissioner-type roles, such as the Older People's Commissioner, which promotes issues associated with older people. We will move to make better reference to that in the Programme for Government, but, of course, we will work with our colleagues, particularly in the Department for Communities, to ensure that all our communities can benefit.

Connie Egan (Alliance, North Down)

T8. Ms Egan asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister, given that today is the first day of 16 days to end violence against women and girls, to provide an update on the research included in the delivery plan on men and boys' attitudes to violence against women and girls. (AQT 788/22-27)

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Lagan Valley)

That work is continuing against our action plan, and good progress is being made. We hope to be in a position to update the Committee on progress against all the action plan points very shortly.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

That draws to an end questions to the deputy First Minister. We move to questions to the Minister of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs.

Oral Answers to Questions — Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs

Mark Durkan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

1. Mr Durkan asked the Minister of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs what steps he is taking to restore the diversity of Northern Ireland’s habitats and species. (AQO 1184/22-27)

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

It is widely recognised that Northern Ireland’s natural environment and its habitats and species are under considerable pressure, having suffered continuous biodiversity loss in recent decades. Indeed, the recent evidence report from the Office for Environmental Protection (OEP) highlights the precarious state of biodiversity here and the key pressures that need to be tackled to, first, halt biodiversity loss and, then, restore the diversity of Northern Ireland’s habitats and species.

Recognising the importance of a more nature-positive future for all and nature’s role in tackling climate change, DAERA’s strategic objectives reflect the need for specific measures to restore our natural ecosystems, such as those set out in Northern Ireland’s first environmental improvement plan. The forthcoming nature recovery strategy, peatland strategy, climate action plan and climate change adaptation plan will also include ambitious measures to tackle biodiversity loss and climate change together, supporting green growth and nature recovery.

My Department has also been driving forward programmes to enhance our terrestrial, freshwater and marine biodiversity, including through the environmental farming scheme, where over 58,000 hectares of protected and priority habitats and their associated species are being actively managed to support their maintenance and recovery over time. There are 36 projects, totalling more than £7·5 million, supported by the environment fund, supporting habitat and species recovery. Our review of the nutrients action programme (NAP) and forthcoming ammonia strategy will aim to address our excess nutrient pollution problem, a key issue in biodiversity loss. Public consultations on a number of marine conservation-based strategies and action plans for habitats and species are also under way.

I am fully committed to restoring our natural habitats, species and ecosystems and taking the necessary steps to deliver a nature-positive and climate-resilient future for all.

Mark Durkan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

I thank the Minister for his answer, in which he referred to the recent OEP report and, indeed, the nutrients action programme. Given that the OEP report identified one of the key drivers of biodiversity loss as an unsustainable nutrients surplus, will the Minister advise us when the nutrients action programme will be published?

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

I thank the Member for his question. I am very well aware of what the OEP report said about the drivers of biodiversity loss. It was very stark reading, and I encourage everyone in the House and beyond to read the report. The NAP, as the Member outlined, is a key intervention in dealing with that nutrient overload in our rivers, lakes and loughs, and it is my intention and hope that we will move to consultation on that in January.

Nicola Brogan (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

Has the Minister given any consideration to specific biodiversity legislation or does he feel that existing strategies are enough to reverse the decline in biodiversity here?

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

As I outlined in my response to Mark, we are taking forward a number of strategies in this area. In the shortened mandate that we have and within my Department's resource pressures, the ability to take forward legislation in a specific area is challenging for me. I am aware, however, that Mark H Durkan, who asked the question for oral answer, is introducing a Member's Bill. I have already met the Member about that, and, hopefully, we can work cooperatively on this. I think that all of us in the House have a commitment to improving our environment, and if we can work together on these things, we can achieve so much more.

Andrew McMurray (Alliance, South Down)

Minister, how can the protection of peatlands improve biodiversity?

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

Peatlands are absolutely key in this, and we are already doing work on that. We have funding from the Shared Island Fund, which is proving really useful to the actions that we can take towards peatland restoration. I have seen some of that work across Northern Ireland in action in recent months, but we want to take that further and introduce our peatland strategy, because we can use our peatlands as a way forward in tackling the challenges that we have not only but specifically in relation to greenhouse emissions.

John Blair (Alliance, South Antrim)

2. Mr Blair asked the Minister of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs for an update on his efforts to introduce Lucy's law. (AQO 1185/22-27)

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

I remain committed to introducing legislation to regulate third-party sales of pups and kittens in Northern Ireland. I expect to be in a position to announce policy proposals by the end of this year along with a number of other key proposals, which I am confident will deliver improvements to the lives of companion animals. It is my desire that any legislation will be a significant step change for Northern Ireland and deliver for citizens and stakeholders.

I have invited the Northern Ireland Companion Animal Welfare Group to meet me on 4 December so that we can discuss priority reforms for animal welfare. At that meeting, I will outline my Department’s vision for a version of Lucy’s law that will meet our local contexts and needs. One such option is measures that go beyond a prohibition on third-party sellers. It is my desire that any legislation introduced in this space will generate greater transparency and accountability in the marketplace by enabling purchasers to identify where a pet has come from. I am minded to bring forward further measures to improve animal welfare in Northern Ireland. Any proposals that I bring forward will, of course, be subject to public consultation.

John Blair (Alliance, South Antrim)

I thank the Minister for his reply and the news that there has been real progress in bringing forward Lucy's law, which will be widely welcomed across the animal welfare sector. In addition to that, what measures will the Minister take to improve animal welfare more generally in the remainder of this mandate?

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

I am passionate about improving animal welfare standards in Northern Ireland. We have lost pace on that due to the collapse of the Assembly. I am determined to do what work I can, with the resources in my Department, to catch up on it. I will be engaging with stakeholders, because I want to do it in a process of co-design and working together. As part of that engagement, we will discuss measures that we can take forward together to improve animal welfare. I am already clearly of the mind that we should bring forward a ban on the use of shock collars, introduce compulsory microchipping of cats and strengthen legal requirements. It is important that we work together. There are many more things that we can do to protect animals against cruelty in Northern Ireland.

Deborah Erskine (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

The Minister will know that I have raised the issue of puppy farming in my constituency in the Chamber before. I am interested to know what level of council engagement has taken place on Lucy's law. Councils seem to be a turning a blind eye to it slightly. Lucy's law gives an opportunity to limit premises to one breeding licence.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

Come to your question, please.

Deborah Erskine (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

What level of council engagement is happening?

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

There are two aspects to your question. If you are aware of any concerns about council engagement, you can bring them to me and I will engage constructively with the councils on them. Stakeholder engagement on the reform of animal welfare legislation will include the councils, because they are key partners in it. I will wish to discuss dog-breeding establishments at our forthcoming meeting.

Áine Murphy (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

As the Minister is aware, a recent investigation by Victoria Johnston of 'The Impartial Reporter' highlighted a number of loopholes in the current dog-breeding establishment legislation. Will the Minister consider undertaking a fundamental review of existing legislation on dog-breeding establishments?

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

I read 'The Impartial Reporter' investigation and am aware of the reports and concerns. The issue is on my mind and is of great concern to me. When we get together with those stakeholders soon, that issue will be on the agenda. I get the public concern, because I share it. I want to look at what more we can do in that area.

Timothy Gaston (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

3. Mr Gaston asked the Minister of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs what action he can take in light of reports that his former special adviser did not inform his Department that she was taking up employment with Ulster University. (AQO 1186/22-27)

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

As the Member will be aware from my answer to his previous question, I have no role to play in that matter.

Timothy Gaston (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Special advisers who are taking up new jobs have to comply with the Northern Ireland Civil Service standard of conduct in order to maintain public trust and avoid the risk that a firm or organisation might gain an improper advantage. That has not happened with Dr Carson. Minister, you claim that there is nothing to see here. Will you ask the head of the Civil Service to investigate the matter?

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

The head of the Civil Service has no remit on that matter.

Peter Martin (DUP, North Down)

Minister, your special adviser told you on Sunday 4 August that she was resigning, and you agreed a highly unusual — some would say unprecedented — period of notice of some nine days. Will the Minister provide a reason for such a short period of notice?

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

It was not highly unusual.

Diana Armstrong (UUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

4. Ms D Armstrong asked the Minister of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs for his Department's assessment of the financial sustainability of the bovine TB eradication programme. (AQO 1187/22-27)

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

Bovine tuberculosis (bTB) is one of the most challenging issues that cattle farmers and my Department face. The cost of delivering the Northern Ireland bovine TB eradication programme was almost £56 million last year, and current estimates indicate that there will be a rise in programme costs to approximately £60 million for this financial year.

Since becoming Minister, I have heard directly from farmers on the impact of bovine TB, from a financial perspective and, importantly, on their mental and physical health. I am particularly conscious of the current increase in animal incidence, which now stands at over 1%, as that points towards larger breakdowns and more cattle being slaughtered for disease control. Over 20,000 cattle have been removed from farms in Northern Ireland in the past 12 months. Coupled with an increase in the market value of cattle, that saw compensation payments rise to just under £36 million in the previous financial year. That was a significant increase on the cost in the preceding five years, during which the average compensation bill was just over £21 million. Removal of cattle from farms also results in consequential losses for industry, particularly in the dairy sector. That is not sustainable.

My Chief Veterinary Officer, Brian Dooher, is undertaking a thorough review of matters that relate to our bovine TB eradication programme and policy, including the actions that are contained in the bovine TB eradication strategy. I will brief the Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee on the review this Thursday. It is a key priority for me to work closely with industry and key stakeholders on ways to reduce disease levels and programme costs, setting Northern Ireland on a path to reduce and, ultimately, eradicate this costly disease.

Diana Armstrong (UUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I thank the Minister for his response. Given that 13 months have passed since the previous Minister of Agriculture's proposal for a non-selective cull of badgers was overturned in a judicial review, when will your Department confirm its position on the matter?

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

I am aware of the outcome of the judicial review, because I have read the judgement twice. We are seeking a holistic way forward so that we can manage the issues associated with bTB. That goes beyond the issue of wildlife. We need to work together collaboratively to deal with all the causation factors, because that is the only way for us to drive down levels of bTB. To be honest, the mental health impact on farmers and the anguish that bTB is causing are of real concern to me. I will go to the Committee on Thursday with Brian, the Chief Veterinary Officer, to outline his report. I hope that everyone will give Brian's report a fair hearing because we need to work together on the issue.

Linda Dillon (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Minister, will you outline the collaboration that you have been involved in with your counterpart in the Twenty-six Counties, given that there is quite a gap between the rates of bTB there and the rates here? Is there best practice in the South that we can learn from? I am glad to hear you say that you are worried about the mental health of farmers, because there is a devastating impact on affected farm families.

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

I thank the Member for her question, which is a really important one. After the previous North/South Ministerial Council meeting, I had a lengthy meeting with the South's Minister for Agriculture, Charlie McConalogue, on that specific issue, what the South is doing, what we are doing and how we can work together. In animal health terms, we are an all-Ireland unit, and we need to share our experience and work together a bit more closely. That is helping to inform some of my decision-making, but I am also looking at what is happening in England, Scotland and Wales and beyond. Be assured that we are working together on the issues, and I am keen to accelerate that.

William Irwin (DUP, Newry and Armagh)

Does the Minister accept that other regions of the UK and, indeed, the Republic of Ireland have been much more proactive in their fight against bTB and have much lower levels as a result?

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

Levels of bTB across the UK and Ireland vary. We know, for example, that Scotland's level is so low that it is considered to be free of bTB, whereas the levels of bTB in Northern Ireland are unsustainable. I know that deeply, not just because of the financial implications for my Department but because the matter is regularly raised with me wherever I go.

We therefore have to take learnings from not just across the UK and Ireland but beyond to see how we can collectively drive down levels of bTB. I urge everyone to work with us so that we can take learnings from the Chief Veterinary Officer's report and chart a better path to reducing bTB incidence levels.

Sian Mulholland (Alliance, North Antrim)

Minister, will there be a consultation on future wildlife interventions?