Northern Ireland Assembly, 1 July 2024

301 contributions from 49 members. The official report.

Ministerial Statements

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

I have received notice from the Minister for the Economy that he wishes to make a statement.

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

In February, I outlined four key objectives for the economy, one of which is to increase the proportion of the working-age population in good jobs. Ensuring that workers and their families can rely on a decent and secure income is important in its own right. Good jobs also help to attract and retain people in the workforce, thereby reducing our high level of economic inactivity, and there is compelling evidence that good jobs boost workers' productivity and health.

Today, I am launching a consultation on how to ensure that our employment framework supports good jobs. The consultation seeks views on four aspects of a good job as defined by the Carnegie framework.

The first theme is "terms of employment". Over recent years, we have seen a growth in insecure and precarious forms of employment. An extreme example is zero-hours contracts, which do not guarantee the worker any hours at all. Some businesses have a genuine need for short-term or emergency cover. However, zero-hours contracts deny workers many of the rights provided by a regular employment contract. They do not ensure a stable income for workers and their families, nor do they provide workers with certainty over when and how many hours they will work so that they can plan their finances and their family responsibilities. The consultation therefore seeks views on how to ensure that flexible contracts meet the interests of the employee as well as the employer.

There are potential lessons in that from the South of Ireland. Legislation there restricts the use of zero-hours contracts to very specific circumstances where work is of a casual nature, done in emergency circumstances or needed to cover routine absences of staff. People who regularly work more than their contracted hours can be placed on a contract with a band of hours that reflects their actual working pattern. People are paid compensation when they are called into work but do not receive their expected hours or if they are required to be available but are not called into work. I am seeking the public's view on those and other potential ways of tackling the problems associated with zero-hours contracts.

I also want views on tackling bogus self-employment. That refers to a situation where a person is, to all intents and purposes, a worker but is contracted on a self-employed basis. That miscategorisation denies the worker basic protections such as holiday pay, the national minimum wage, family-related leave and pay and redundancy rights. The consultation seeks evidence on the sectors where that is a problem and on the best way to deal with it.

Members should be aware that this is a complicated issue, which interacts with tax law, including reserved matters, so the cooperation of the British Government may be necessary.

Agency workers are another category of people who are often called upon to fill short-term absences or to react to peaks in demand. The casual nature of that employment relationship means that it is important to have checks and balances in place. My Department is seeking views on closing the so-called Swedish derogation. That is a legal loophole that permits agency workers to be paid less than their permanent counterparts, even after 12 weeks on the job.

The consultation invites submissions on how to strengthen the enforcement powers of the Employment Agency Standards Inspectorate (EAS), which regulates the private recruitment sector. Members will be familiar with the disgraceful practice of fire and rehire. Some employers use that tactic to put pressure on workers to accept reduced terms and conditions in order to keep their jobs. I want to hear views on what action could be taken to combat that practice here.

The second theme is pay and benefits. Minimum wage legislation is currently reserved in London. In preparation for that power being transferred to the Assembly, I have commissioned research into how it could be used to promote the living wage. In terms of our existing powers, I am consulting on legislation that will ensure that tips are passed on to workers in full.

Calculating holiday pay entitlements can be complex, particularly for people who work irregular hours or seasonally. That creates a risk that individuals will not receive their correct entitlement. The calculation of holiday pay has been the subject of several high-profile court cases over recent years. I am therefore seeking views on how to make it easier for employers and workers to calculate holiday pay.

While remote working has many benefits, it has muddied the line between when someone is working and when they are not working. It is important that people can properly switch off outside their working hours and get proper rest and relaxation. I am therefore consulting on how to strengthen workers' right to disconnect.

The chapter of the consultation on voice and representation seeks views on how to ensure that workers have a voice in the decisions that affect them. Trade unions play a critical role in articulating the interests of workers and in ensuring that workers share in the benefits of economic growth alongside employers and society as a whole. However, various outdated restrictions make it difficult for labour to organise, so the consultation seeks views on lowering the bar on trade union recognition from 21 to 11 workers, making it easier for trade unions to enter workplaces and reducing the notice period for industrial action from seven to five days. In addition, trade unions can currently use only postal ballots to survey their members. Therefore, I am consulting on allowing trade unions to ballot their members using modern technology.

The fourth theme of the consultation is promoting a healthy work-life balance. A good job allows an individual to balance their work with their family and private life. The consultation seeks views on allowing a statutory request for flexible working to be made on the first day of employment, rather than having to wait 26 weeks, and to enable two statutory flexible working requests to be made in a rolling 12-month period. It also asks how we can support workers who need to take time off to care for a loved one. The consultation proposes giving carers the right to take up to one week of unpaid leave per year. It is also my goal to ensure that carers can avail themselves of paid leave. My officials estimate that, initially, that could cost £6 million for the HMRC system-change costs and an annual administration fee payable to HMRC to administer the statutory payment, plus up to £60 million a year in payments, which would have to be funded from our block grant. That would be a significant level of funding in the context of the financial constraints imposed on the Executive. I am committed to working with my Executive colleagues to make sure that we find the best way to support carers. The consultation will therefore be used to seek further views on the role that carer's leave could play in a wider support than the Executive can offer carers.

Currently, there is no distinct right to leave and/or statutory pay for working parents whose newborn requires neonatal care. The consultation proposes to give working parents of newborns admitted to neonatal care an additional week of statutory leave and/or pay for each week that their child is in hospital, up to a maximum of 12 weeks. The leave element would be a day-1 right.

The consultation proposes stronger protections for pregnant women against redundancy, as well as extending the current protected period from the date when a woman returns to work from maternity leave to 18 months after giving birth. It proposes similar protections for parents taking adoption leave or shared parental leave. Before making any such employee redundant, an employer would be required to offer a suitable alternative vacancy where possible.

Under current law, employees can take one or two consecutive weeks of paid paternity leave within the first eight weeks of their child's life or adoption placement. That leave must be taken in a single block and cannot be split.

The consultation proposes to allow paternity leave to be split into non-consecutive weeks of leave so that it can be used in a way that best serves the needs of the parents. It also proposes to abolish the 26-week qualifying period and to make paternity leave a day-1 right.

The package of measures promotes good jobs through the comprehensive modernisation of employment law, which includes tackling zero-hours contracts; protection for agency workers; proper holiday pay; the right to disconnect; better trade union representation; more flexible working; and better leave entitlements for carers and parents whose newborns are in neonatal care. Those changes and others that are in the consultation document will benefit workers, businesses and society as a whole. In implementing the changes, we need to be mindful that micro and small businesses, many of which operate on tight margins, make up the vast majority of our businesses. My Department will therefore use the consultation period to assess the impact of changes on smaller businesses in order to ensure that they can continue to thrive as part of a good economy with good jobs.

Given the wide range and detailed nature of the package, I have extended the consultation period from the standard eight weeks to 13 weeks. It is important to note, however, that we have only two and a half years left in this mandate, so my Department, the Committee and the Assembly will have to work at pace to ensure that the Bill is delivered within the available time. The purpose of my good jobs agenda is to ensure that working people can provide their families with a decent and secure income and meet their family and caring responsibilities. The consultation will help us to draft a Bill that furthers that good jobs economy. I look forward to working with Members, the business community and trade unions as we design and implement this important Bill.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

Before I call Sinéad McLaughlin, I remind Members that this is an opportunity for questions, not statements, and that Members should be concise.

Sinéad McLaughlin (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

Minister, I really welcome the consultation. It is very comprehensive, and I look forward to engaging on all aspects of it.

There are huge disparities between Carers NI's financial modelling on paid carer's leave and your Department's financial modelling on it. How do you account for those differences? Will you assure the House that you are not rolling back on the commitment and ambition for carers to get paid and be supported for the valuable contribution that they make to our society each and every day?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Member for her remarks about the overall piece of work, and I am very much looking forward to getting it out there and getting responses back to it. If there are disparities, I am very happy for them to become part of the consultation so that we can tease them out. We in the Department certainly recognise that we have to deal with HMRC. You have to pay for anything that is outside what it currently provides, and you have an ongoing administrative charge with it. There is an estimation of what the cost may be, but this measure is demand-led, so these are estimates of the potential cost to the Executive. It is my ambition to have paid carer's leave, but, clearly, we recognise the financial constraints that we are in and that we have to wait to see what the consultation throws up to us. That is an ambition that we have, and we will have to work with Executive colleagues on the back of the consultation to see how we can develop that.

Gary Middleton (DUP, Foyle)

I thank the Minister for his statement and for providing the consultation information to the Committee in advance of publication last week.

Mr Speaker, the consultation covers a lot of ground. There are quite a large number of proposals and calls for evidence, and I hope that you will indulge me if I ask a bit of a longer question on behalf of the Committee for the Economy. Some of the proposed legislation would, apparently, simply replicate in Northern Ireland measures that are already in place in the rest of the United Kingdom. Those include access to unpaid carer's leave and neonatal leave and further protections from redundancy for pregnant women. The consultation also refers to other matters, including zero-hours contracts, hire and fire and working time directive compliance. Does the Minister agree that it is important that there is an in-depth consultation on job quality and data collection and that those are surveyed? Will the Minister explain why he did not simply split the consultation and the subsequent legislation into a UK alignment Bill and a wider trade union reform and other matters Bill?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

It is the case that the bulk of what we are dealing with here is devolved to us. We have to set the standards for our own economy and our own particular circumstances. We are, largely, a small- and medium-sized enterprise economy, and we have to recognise that. This is a fairly comprehensive consultation package.

The Member will know that we need to move towards legislation very quickly on the other side of that consultation. We have to get that consultation going with the Committee.

Some matters can be addressed through guidance or other measures. We will certainly look at that if the consultation throws that up, but we have responsibility for our own employment law and for modernising that, and we have responsibility to set those terms in ways that benefit our own economy and set of particular circumstances.

Philip McGuigan (Sinn Féin, North Antrim)

I thank the Minister for his statement and for bringing forward the consultation on what will be significant proposals on important issues for workers and families. Will he provide an update on the Parental Bereavement (Leave and Pay) Act 2022?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

The Parental Bereavement (Leave and Pay) Act requires the existing entitlements for parents who sadly experience the loss of a child to be extended to parents who suffer a miscarriage. It also requires the overall right to pay for that leave to be made a day-1 right. My Department consulted on those issues in late 2022. I wish to take into account the outcome of that consultation before determining the next steps. In the meantime, my officials are continuing to engage with HMRC on the IT system changes that are necessary to bring the new right into operation by April 2026.

Paula Bradshaw (Alliance, Belfast South)

Thank you, Minister, for your statement. There is certainly plenty in it that my party will hopefully support when it responds to the consultation.

Does the flexible working right from the first day of employment cover working from home?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Yes. There is a recognition that the system of work has changed for everyone since the pandemic. A variety of people work from home. Some of the proposals cover your entitlement to be off when you are at home in order to recognise that you have your own space for rest and relaxation, but also to try to recognise that the system of work is not the one that we had five or six years ago, and that many people work from home directly. The consultation has begun and is fairly wide-ranging. It will throw up particular questions that may not have been anticipated, although quite a bit of pre-consultation has been done to bring it this far. If other issues are thrown up that relate to specific areas like working from home, we are happy to consider those as part of the consultation and include them in the response on the other side of it.

Ciara Ferguson (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

Will the Minister provide an update on the Domestic Abuse (Safe Leave) Act 2022?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

The Assembly passed the Domestic Abuse (Safe Leave) Act in 2022. Under that legislation, my Department can bring forward regulations to introduce a new right for workers who are victims of domestic abuse to access 10 days' paid leave. I fully support that progressive legislation, which will provide valuable support to victims of domestic abuse. I want to progress that alongside the wider work on the employment rights Bill. That is why I intend to launch a consultation on how the Department can shape the regulations that are needed to introduce that important new employment right later this week.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

That concludes questions to the Minister for the Economy.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

I have received notice from the Minister of Health that he wishes to make a statement.

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. In compliance with section 52 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998, I wish to make the following statement about the twenty-fifth meeting of the North/South Ministerial Council (NSMC) in the health and food safety sectoral format, which was held in Armagh on Thursday past, 27 June 2024. I chaired the meeting, junior Minister Aisling Reilly MLA attended as the accompanying Minister and Stephen Donnelly TD, Minister for Health, represented the Government of Ireland. The statement has been agreed with junior Minister Reilly, and I make it on behalf of both of us.

I will begin with health. The Council welcomed the ongoing engagement between the Departments of Health in both jurisdictions in the context of the North/South Ministerial Council health and food safety work programme, and noted that a review of that work programme is ongoing. Ministers noted that a revised work programme will be developed by sponsor Departments in the coming months and then presented at the next NSMC sectoral meeting.

The Council welcomed the continued cooperation of both Departments in the health sector since the last meeting.

That cooperation includes the following: progress following the successful implementation of the Licensing and Registration of Clubs (Amendment) Act (Northern Ireland) 2021; continued progress on the development and implementation of strategies to prevent harm related to alcohol and drug misuse in both jurisdictions; continued engagement on opportunities to cooperate on common elements of substance abuse strategies across both jurisdictions; the potential for further collaboration on issues connected with alcohol and drug use, such as the sharing of learning through the North/South alcohol policy advisory group; the update on obesity prevention, including partnership through Safefood; suicide prevention initiatives in both jurisdictions, including joint working on the self-harm registry and the potential for further joint working on suicide prevention; updates on the All-Island Congenital Heart Disease Network; the update on cross-border emergency planning and emergency response and the fact that both Health Departments will work collaboratively to seek ways to cooperate further on emergency planning and emergency response; the pharmacy update, particularly the information regarding the upcoming all-island medication safety conference; and the update on joint funding applications under the PEACE PLUS programme.

During the meeting, Ministers received a presentation on cancer care and cooperation delivered by officials. The Council welcomed the significant developments by both jurisdictions in improving cancer services for people on the island of Ireland, including the continued cooperation and expansion of radiotherapy services at Altnagelvin Hospital and further cooperation on services provided through the North West Cancer Centre; the ongoing work of the Ireland-Northern Ireland-National Cancer Institute (NCI) Cancer Consortium and its role in securing Health Research Board funding to support the priority thematic areas of the consortium, with the overall aim of advancing cancer research and innovation across the island in partnership with the NCI; the award, in June 2023, of Government of Ireland funding to the Cancer Fund for Children, including funding through the Shared Island Fund, to develop a second therapeutic residential centre that will be accessible to children and their families across the island of Ireland; and the ongoing and concerted effort and engagement in improving cancer research and clinical trials at an all-island scale and the fact that both Administrations are working together to develop projects to improve cancer services for patients across both jurisdictions, including efforts to identify funding streams to facilitate that work, including the exploration of further opportunities to avail themselves of Shared Island funding.

The Council went on to note the scale of the climate and biodiversity crisis and the opportunity for the health sector to support biodiversity throughout its estates. Ministers noted the role of the health sector in promoting the physical and mental health co-benefits of actions to support biodiversity and address climate change; the intention of both Departments of Health to engage in discussions on climate change and loss of biodiversity; work to develop shared areas of interest to protect biodiversity and address climate change on the island; and the commitment to report on that at the next NSMC sectoral meeting.

On food safety, Ministers welcomed the achievements of Safefood since the last meeting and the valuable contribution that it makes through its various activities. They include a progress report from Safefood on the high-level achievements and updates in relation to its public health role to promote food safety and healthy eating advice to the public and those involved in providing food on the island of Ireland. The body has developed and delivered various public health campaigns across all media; developed various all-island networks and programmes to promote food safety and healthy eating; promoted new working partnerships and all-island collaboration; and developed and distributed various resources in educational settings. Further, the body has carried out research, including research relating to meat thermometers; handwashing; food hypersensitivity; the use of antimicrobials in animals; convenience foods; costs of a healthy food basket; food offered to children in social activity centres; whole-system approaches to childhood obesity; plant-based dairy alternatives; children’s diets; food supplements; portion-control tools; fiscal and pricing food policies; and building sustainability into national healthy eating guidelines.

The Council approved Safefood’s 2024 business plan and recommended budget/grant provision, and noted the position regarding Safefood’s business plans and budgets for 2017 and 2018 and the 2017-19 corporate plan.

Ministers noted that the business plans for 2019, 2020, 2022 and 2023 and the corporate plans for 2020-22 and 2023-25 will be presented for consideration at a future meeting following approval by the Department of Health in Northern Ireland and the Department of Finance in Northern Ireland. The Council noted that the Safefood annual report and accounts for 2019, 2020, 2021 and 2022 have been laid before the Northern Ireland Assembly and both Houses of the Oireachtas.

Ministers welcomed the commencement by Safefood of a process to identify suitable candidates for appointment to the Safefood advisory committee, and the NSMC will be invited to consider nominees at a future meeting. The Council welcomed Safefood's progress and leadership on climate change. It noted further planned sustainability work and plans for further alignment of many operational public health programmes and activities towards the achievement of the UN sustainable development goals that are relevant to Safefood’s remit.

Finally, the Council agreed that the next NSMC health and food safety meeting will be held this autumn.

Mark Durkan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

I thank the Minister for his statement. North/South collaboration on health is extremely important to my party and was, indeed, the subject of an Opposition motion last month. I welcome the progress across a range of issues, as outlined by the Minister. With specific regard to the progress on the strategies to prevent harm —

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

I remind the Member that we need a question, not a statement, please.

Mark Durkan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

— related to alcohol and drug misuse, will the Minister commit to exploring and exploiting opportunities to improve addiction services by looking at them on a cross-border basis?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for his statement and his question. I can commit to that, yes. Cross-border cooperation on alcohol and drug misuse, which does not respect a boundary or a border, is something that I discussed with Minister Donnelly last Thursday in Armagh. I would like to see that work brought forward in the work programme that is being developed for our consideration in the autumn.

Linda Dillon (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I thank the Minister for his statement, in which there is a lot of positive stuff. Minister, as you know, we met the Oireachtas Committee last week, and I thank you for taking a few moments to come up and meet us. On both sides of the border, North and South, women's health has, as you know, suffered greatly as a result of inequalities. Did you and Minister Donnelly have any conversations about women's health? If not, are there plans for the issue to be included in the upcoming work programme in order to address all aspects of women's health, including maternal health, reproductive health, cancer and heart health? All those issues are a real challenge for women because of inequalities.

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for her question. I have to be honest and say that women's health, as a specific agenda item, was not discussed in great detail. Cancer was discussed in considerable detail, in particular the need for this Administration to bring forward a cancer research strategy. I would like to think that that will, of course, include a section that is relevant to women's health. As it happens, I will have a Zoom call with my Welsh counterpart later this afternoon, and, certainly, women's health will be part of that agenda.

The Member knows that I am keen for this body and its Executive to look at the idea of gender budgeting, the impact of how we spend our money and what that means for men and women, because there are areas in which the outcomes are, frankly, grossly imbalanced, and that needs to be addressed. The way to start that is to collect the data, which we are not necessarily doing.

Diane Dodds (DUP, Upper Bann)

Thank you, Minister. My question follows on from what your statement said about cancer. We all know that cancer does not respect boundaries, persons or anything else and that all-island cancer research is a good thing, but we need our own cancer research strategy for Northern Ireland. Will you commit to bringing one forward in this mandate?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

If I heard the Member correctly, she asked for a commitment to bring forward a cancer research strategy within this mandate. I hope to please the Member by going a little further: I would like to do that within this calendar year — that is my objective — and, certainly, within the mandate.

Paula Bradshaw (Alliance, Belfast South)

I thank the Minister for his statement. I note that part of it was about the discussion on the scale of the climate and biodiversity crisis and the opportunities for the health sector. I am particularly interested in the decarbonisation of our healthcare sector. What firm action will be taken?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for her question. I wish to explore that with senior officials. I noted the discussion that we had on what the health sector can do on biodiversity and climate change. I then stayed on as Minister O'Dowd's accompanying Minister for the sectoral meeting on infrastructure. I am not criticising the officials who were there for the health meeting, but there was a detailed presentation at the infrastructure meeting about what can be done on biodiversity. I brought that back with me from Armagh, and I want to inject it into the Department of Health to ask, "How can we learn from it? How can we mirror it? How can we expand on our current plans?".

Alan Chambers (UUP, North Down)

I thank the Minister for his statement, and I trust that the meeting served as an opportunity for an early face-to-face engagement with his ministerial counterpart in the Republic of Ireland. Cross-border cancer treatment is an area of collaboration that appears to be working well. Will the Minister commit to tasking his officials with continuing to do all that they can on cross-border cooperation to ensure that patients receive cancer care and treatment that is as timely as possible?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for his question. I can absolutely give that commitment. It was the first time that I had met Stephen Donnelly, and, for my part, I thought that we got on extremely well. I look forward to working with him. I will have no difficulty doing so and will enjoy working with him. He is obviously well across his brief and has some great ideas. I talked about my proposed initiative for the autumn to tackle health inequalities, and he told me about something that he tried in his jurisdiction that did not work as well as was intended, because its delivery was not as he had envisaged it would be. It was affirming for me to realise that what he had intended to do is pretty much exactly what I intend to do.

To return to the specifics of the Member's question, yes, cooperation on cancer care and research has to be done on an all-island basis. As, I think, I have said before in the House, it is not a question of whether we should cooperate but a question of what our capacity is to cooperate. That is the only inhibitor.

Órlaithí Flynn (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I thank the Minister for his statement. He said that there may be some potential for all-island cooperation on future suicide prevention initiatives. Will the Minister detail some of the current initiatives? I will write to him this week about a private Member's Bill on suicide prevention training that I hope to bring to the House. It may be something to explore at the autumn meeting.

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member. As with a lot of issues, it is about data collection, about understanding the data and about recognising that there are common threads, but behind data is the human cost. Every data set is about the human cost of somebody who has taken their own life. Every suicide has to be regarded as preventable.

I want to build on an initiative that I started in my constituency a number of years ago. I was contacted by a mother whose 23-year-old son had taken his life. She wanted to hold a vigil in Conway Square in Newtownards to remember him. A lot of people turned up, but we realised that they had come not in solidarity but because they had also lost loved ones to suicide. Those of us who organised the vigil felt that we could not just leave it there, so we started the Ards Suicide Awareness Group. We go into schools. We give money towards resilience and mental capacity training, and there are reflective benches in all the large housing configurations in Newtownards. We sponsor safeTALK training, which is an awareness campaign that empowers people not to be counsellors but to listen to people and to signpost them to services. I want to develop such initiatives with the Government of Ireland as we go forward.

Alan Robinson (DUP, East Londonderry)

I thank the Minister for his statement to the House. He rightly referred to the North West Cancer Centre. What further work is planned to ensure that the centre becomes one of the leading and best cancer centres on this island and in the world?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for his question. I think that it already is. My assessment is that the North West Cancer Centre is at the leading edge. As for what further can be done, there are two issues. First, we have to scope it out. Officials will do that as part of the work programme that I discussed, which they are working on to present at the next meeting in the autumn. Secondly, we have to ask about the budgetary ability, particularly for our Department of Health, to invest further in the North West Cancer Centre, because, as Members are aware, the budget settlement to date has proved to be disappointing for my Department.

Colm Gildernew (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I wish the Minister well in his new role. Minister, you will be aware of the desperately sad plight of people here who need to use paediatric pathology services. The lack of such services in the North means that families have to travel to England in the worst of circumstances. Did you have an opportunity to discuss that issue on a North/South basis with your counterpart, Minister Donnelly, and, if not, will you commit to doing so in the autumn?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

The Member raises a very important point. I confirm that we did indeed discuss that issue specifically. I hope that the Member will permit me not to go into the detail of that discussion, because, I think, Minister Donnelly wished to take some points away to consider them with his officials and bring those back in the autumn. I think that we agree that it is a big, horrible ask to require parents to travel by plane or ferry to Alder Hey Children's Hospital in Liverpool in such horrible and tragic circumstances. In my view, if it were possible to have a pathology centre, in Belfast preferably but, if not, in Dublin, that would relieve a lot of that stress and strain. It is in that area that we are moving, if I may put it like that. I am not, however, comfortable rehearsing my conversation with Minister Donnelly without first speaking to him again.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

Thank you for your statement, Minister. Was there any discussion with Minister Donnelly about a replacement for the cross-border healthcare directive to help to tackle our waiting lists?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member. No, there was no substantive discussion, and the reason for that is simple: there is nothing in my budget to permit such a replacement. It was a successful scheme. Well over 4,000 people applied to it, and just over 4,000 went through it. The satisfaction level was high. As I have said before, I have no political or ideological objection to reintroducing the scheme, but it is a question of capacity in our budget to do it. At the moment, it is not on the agenda.

Justin McNulty (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Minister for his statement. All-island healthcare makes sense. It should be about cooperating and sharing resource, expertise, innovation and medical facilities. Does the Minister agree that Daisy Hill Hospital is in prime position to become a cross-border centre of excellence, given that more than a million people are within an hour's drive of Newry city's hospital?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

Many hospitals, including Daisy Hill Hospital, the South West Acute Hospital in Enniskillen and Altnagelvin Hospital in Derry/Londonderry, are in that position.

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Minister, thank you for your statement. I am glad to see the progress on the all-island cancer work in particular, off the back of the motion that the Assembly passed two weeks ago. The Oireachtas Committee on Health was up last week, as you know. I took the Committee members to Daisy Hill last week, and they were very interested, as were the staff, in the opportunity to share capacity. Can you give a commitment, if that matter has not been discussed, to follow up on it? Certainly the Dáil Committee was very interested in how we can work together on hospital networks across the island.

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member. In her last few words, she mentioned something important: the word "network". I am coming towards the end of my deliberations and consultations with senior colleagues on a reconfiguration plan for our hospital network, and I hope to have something detailed to say about that in the immediate future, ahead of going into pre-consultation. That plan needs to consider where all-Ireland work is appropriate, and I will look to explore and maximise that. Once again, it is about capacity, and, if we can maximise capacity in cooperation, so much the better; I am absolutely for it.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

That concludes questions on the statement by the Minister of Health.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

The next item of business is a motion to suspend Standing Orders 10(2) to 10(4).

Apologies. I have received notice from the Minister of Finance that she wishes to make a statement.

Caoimhe Archibald (Sinn Féin, East Londonderry)

You were giving me heart failure there; I thought that I had the wrong folder.

Thank you for the opportunity to make a statement on the outcome of the 2023-24 provisional out-turn and the Executive's June monitoring exercise. I have carefully considered whether the June monitoring round should proceed during the pre-election period, and my view is that that process represents normal and routine Executive business. There is also an urgent need to provide certainty to Departments, and even a short delay presents risks. Not proceeding could have resulted in Departments taking decisions that would not have been needed had an additional allocation been confirmed. Proceeding as we have done allows for proper Assembly engagement without the need for the House to be recalled during recess.

Before turning to the current year, I will update the Assembly on the 2023-24 provisional out-turn and the resulting carry-forward under the Budget exchange scheme. Tables accompanying the statement set out the provisional out-turn position for each Department. Members will recall that, owing to the funding provided from the reserve in 2023-24 as part of the financial package, the Executive are unable to carry forward any resource departmental expenditure limit (DEL) underspends. To minimise the risk of funding being lost, the Executive agreed an overcommitment of £14·1 million based on anticipated departmental underspends, which allowed an additional allocation of that amount to the Department for Infrastructure.

As a result of that action, the departmental resource DEL underspend of £19·3 million was reduced to £5·2 million. Adjusting for a reduction in anticipated regional rates income and removing earmarked funding that must be returned to the Treasury results in a small overspend of £0·5 million in non-ring-fenced resource DEL. That small overspend is offset by a late Barnett consequential of £41·6 million that the Treasury exceptionally agreed could be carried forward to 2024-25. Therefore, no resource DEL funding has been lost due to underspends, and the £41·1 million is being carried forward into 2024-25. The usual Budget exchange limits apply to all other expenditure categories.

On conventional capital DEL, £9·1 million will be carried forward, reflecting departmental underspends and central adjustments and including £1·6 million of late Barnett consequentials.

On financial transactions capital (FTC), although the total underspend is £10·8 million, the Budget exchange scheme allows only £0·6 million to be carried forward into 2024-25. The remaining underspend of £10·2 million is not lost but rather reduces future liabilities, as my Department has agreed with the Treasury that any FTC underspends can be used to offset the required repayment of 80% of allocations.

Ring-fenced resource DEL may be used only for non-cash depreciation and impairments costs; it cannot be used to fund other services. Due to Budget exchange limits, only £8·6 million can be carried forward into 2024-25. It should be noted, however, that, of the total underspend of £443·4 million, some £373 million relates to student loan impairments and is mainly a result of the funding model used by the Treasury rather than of underspend by the Department.

I will now turn to June monitoring. First, I will address commitments made by the Executive in agreeing Budget 2024-25. Members will recall that Budget 2024-25 set aside £25 million for actions relating to a childcare strategy. Since then, the Executive have agreed the Education Minister's proposals to utilise that funding, which will be transferred to the Department of Education as an earmarked allocation. The Executive also agreed in Budget 24-25 that £1·6 million of capital DEL late Barnett consequentials would be provided to DAERA for Lough Neagh initiatives. That earmarked funding will also be provided as part of the June monitoring round.

Given the funding available for allocation, Budget 2024-25 concluded with all resource and capital DEL allocated and £21·3 million of unallocated financial transactions capital. The agreement of the interim fiscal framework resulted in an additional £23·9 million from the application of the 124% adjustment factor to the spring Budget. While Barnett consequentials from Westminster Main Estimates will not be confirmed until they have been introduced in Parliament, on the basis of previous indications, I have anticipated £185 million resource DEL from that source. There is a risk that the amount ultimately received could be lower. However, given the pressures facing Departments and the need to provide them with any additional funding as early as possible in the financial year, I am content that that is an acceptable risk. Not doing so could result in Departments taking actions that are not required, thereby causing further detriment to our public services. Combined with carry-forward from 2023-24, an adjustment for an error in comparability factor and reduced requirements, that has resulted in £257·9 million of resource DEL, £59·1 million of capital DEL and £23·6 million financial transactions capital being available for allocation in this monitoring round.

Under legislation, the salaries of statutory office holders are met directly from the NI Consolidated Fund. However, Budget cover is still required and must be funded. The Department of Justice requested an additional £1·1 million for judicial salaries, which will be provided in this round. Members will be aware of the ongoing issue of the Education Authority (EA) pay and grading review. I have been working collegiately with the Education Minister, and I thank him for the positive work that he has done to find a way forward for the workers. I am pleased to advise that £43·7 million will be provided for that in the June monitoring round, which will allow the staff, some of whom are amongst the lowest paid but play a vital role in supporting our children and young people, to move onto the new pay scales from the start of the financial year. The Executive have also committed to provide funding for a non-consolidated recognition payment in lieu of back pay to eligible staff in 2025-26. That will be funded from the repurposed funds in the financial package. However, utilisation of the funding for that purpose will occur only if the Treasury does not agree to my request to reprofile funding from the financial package.

Having taken account of those two issues, the Executive had £213·1 million resource DEL, £57·5 million capital DEL and £23·6 million financial transactions capital available to address pressures. Given the pressures identified in the Budget, it will come as no surprise that the resource and capital bids in this monitoring round far outweigh the level of resources available. For every £1 that we had to allocate for day-to-day funding for public services, we had six times as many demands, with bids totalling some £1·27 billion. Similarly, for every £1 that we had to spend on capital, we had nine times as many demands, with bids in excess of £520 million. There is simply not enough funding available to do all the things that we wish to do. I have been pressing and will continue to press the Treasury for better funding for public services, but, until that happens, the Executive must live within the funding provided to them.

As Members will be aware, delivering a balanced Budget for 2024-25 was a requirement of the financial package. Any overspend this year would automatically be deducted from next year's block grant, making an already challenging year even more difficult. I am sure that we all want to avoid that position. I hope that the allocation of over £200 million resource DEL to Departments will help to mitigate some of the worst impacts.

Full details of the bids and allocations are set out in the tables that accompany the statement, but I will highlight a few specific resource DEL allocations. The Department of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs will receive £4 million for bovine TB programme delivery and an earmarked allocation of £1·5 million for the environmental improvement plan, which is aimed at addressing the water quality issues at Lough Neagh. The Department for the Economy will receive £2 million for the inescapable pressure of the shortfall in the higher education teaching grant. The Department of Health will receive a general allocation of £121 million resource DEL to help to address funding pressures, with a further allocation of £0·9 million to enable it to fund additional healthcare training places in physiotherapy, occupational therapy, social work and nursing. In addition to earmarked funding for the EA pay and grading review, the Department of Education will receive a general allocation of £29·5 million to address a range of pressures relating to the Education Authority and schools, including supporting special educational needs provision. The Department for Communities will receive £10 million resource DEL to deal with a range of pressures, including increased demand for the discretionary support Supporting People programme, as well as for homelessness interventions, which will support some of the most vulnerable. The Department will also receive £0·5 million specifically for the arts to provide funding to that important sector. An allocation of £35 million resource DEL has been made to the Department of Justice to help to address a range of pressures across the Justice family, including a pressure that is associated with an increased PSNI pension contribution. The Department for Infrastructure will receive £6 million resource DEL to help it to meet a range of pressures, including increased personal injury claims and higher surface water drainage costs. The Executive Office will receive earmarked allocations of £1·5 million resource DEL to enable the Communities in Transition programme to extend its contracts up to March 2025 and £0·5 million for central good relations. Finally, £0·6 million resource DEL has been allocated to the Department of Finance to allow critical work on the planning and preparation for the next census to be carried out.

The Executive have agreed capital DEL allocations totalling £57·5 million. Those include £10 million to the Department for Communities for the cladding safety scheme and £20 million for new-build social housing. Delivering on our housing targets is crucial given the demand for homes, and I will continue to work constructively with Executive colleagues on that important issue. I met the Communities Minister last week and encouraged him to consider whether greater use can be made of the available FTC in order to increase the supply of social housing, building on the schemes that the Department currently has in place. I gave him my commitment that my officials will work constructively with his on that. An allocation of £15 million has been made to the Department of Education for minor works, including for special educational needs and urgent health and safety works. An allocation of £12·5 million has been made to the Department for Infrastructure to help it to avoid having to pause critical infrastructure projects.

Only minimal funding was available for ring-fenced resource DEL, and, historically, further funds are received later in the financial year. The Executive have agreed not to meet any of those pressures at this time but will revisit them in future monitoring rounds. All financial transactions capital bids of £3·2 million have been met, leaving £20·4 million of unallocated FTC. I ask all Departments to consider how that available funding can be utilised.

To increase transparency, the statement is accompanied by tables outlining the detail of changes to departmental budgets. Further tables will be published on the Department of Finance website in due course. Under the heading "Technical Adjustments" in the attached tables are various Treasury-earmarked funding streams and Budget cover transfers from Whitehall Departments.

Those reflect areas such as tackling paramilitary activity, the immigration health surcharge, new deal funding, the NI protocol/Windsor framework, city and growth deals and Fresh Start funding for shared education and housing. In total, those amount to £161·3 million in resource DEL, £2·9 million in ring-fenced resource DEL and £120 million in capital DEL.

It is clear that all Departments are under significant financial pressure. That is evidenced by the vast quantum of bids far exceeding the funding that we had available to allocate. Indeed, the Education, Health and Justice Departments all submitted bids totalling more than the overall amount that we had to allocate. Within the constrained finances available, the Executive must strive to balance funding pressures across all Departments.

While the Executive do not have the funding to do everything that they might wish to do, today's allocations of over £300 million across resource and capital DEL will help to alleviate some of the pressures that Departments face. Working together, we will be better placed to meet the challenges that we face head-on. I want to work with all my ministerial colleagues to have one voice in making the case for more investment in public services. I have been making the case for increased levels of funding in public services and will continue to do so. I commend the June monitoring outcome to the Assembly.

Matthew O'Toole (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

Minister, this is a shabby and disgraceful use of Civil Service resources, three days out from an election. You have brought the Northern Ireland Civil Service and your Department into disrepute. I admit that there are many important allocations in your statement, but, throughout it, you say things such as although there is a risk, you are willing to accept it. Does that not fly in the face of your statement that this is normal and routine business? Does it not also fly in the face of the idea that this is normal and routine business when, in page 9 of the statement, you say that you may not even be able to complete the additional payment for education workers because the Treasury may not agree to it?

Minister, many of the allocations are welcome. We wanted and needed a June monitoring round, but it could have happened in four days' time, after the UK general election. Why have you done this today? Is that not a shabby indictment of Stormont?

Caoimhe Archibald (Sinn Féin, East Londonderry)

It will come as no surprise to the Member that I do not agree with his analysis. I have been clear for some time about my preferred time frame for doing June monitoring. I have, of course, considered carefully whether June monitoring should have proceeded during the pre-election period. My view, and that of my Department, is that this process represents the normal and routine business of the Executive.

Given the financial pressures facing all our Departments, it was vital that they had confirmation of additional funding allocations as soon as possible. As Finance Minister, I could not, in good conscience, stand by and let Departments take potentially unnecessary decisions that could have caused harm to our public services, knowing that there was money available to allocate. My focus has been on doing the right thing, giving Departments and the bodies that they fund, including organisations such as health trusts, which are under immense pressure, certainty on additional funding. That is why, today, my Executive colleagues have backed my proposals and agreed June monitoring. Proceeding as we have done also allows for proper Assembly engagement without the House needing to be recalled.

Diane Forsythe (DUP, South Down)

I thank the Minister for her statement, which sets out a range of different financial settlements. In particular, I welcome the £43·7 million that was agreed to settle the Education Authority pay and grading review. I commend the work of the Minister, alongside the Education Minister, in achieving that. In light of the announcements that have been made in the statement and the £121 million additional resource DEL for Health, has the Health Minister's position on whether he will support your Budget changed?

Caoimhe Archibald (Sinn Féin, East Londonderry)

That is a question for the Health Minister, but I can confirm that there was unanimous support in the Executive for June monitoring.

Nicola Brogan (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire.

[Translation: I thank the Minister.]

I welcome the announcements in the Minister's statement. The funding will be greatly appreciated by all Departments, which have suffered from having very tight budgets. Will she confirm whether any money from underspends will be returned to the Treasury?

Caoimhe Archibald (Sinn Féin, East Londonderry)

Due to the funding that was provided in 2023-24 through a reserve claim in the financial package, the Executive were unable to carry forward any resource DEL underspends. To minimise the risk of funding being lost to the Treasury, the Executive agreed an overcommitment of £14·1 million, based on anticipated departmental underspends.

That allowed for an additional allocation of that amount to the Department for Infrastructure. As a result of that action, no non-ring-fenced resource DEL funding has been lost due to underspends, and £41·1 million of resource DEL is being carried forward into 2024-25 from a very late Barnett consequential last year. That happened due to the collegiate efforts of Executive Ministers working together to make sure that it did. Similarly, no conventional capital DEL funding has been returned to Treasury. A small amount of FTC has been returned, but that is being used to offset future liabilities for FTC repayments.

Eóin Tennyson (Alliance, Upper Bann)

Minister, we understand that you wrote to the First Minister and deputy First Minister on 30 May to request a meeting to agree June monitoring. Can you shed any light on why it took until 1 July for that meeting to happen?

Caoimhe Archibald (Sinn Féin, East Londonderry)

That question would be better posed to the First Minister and deputy First Minister. I have been clear about my preferred time frame for June monitoring for some time and have communicated that to the Finance Committee. For me, it was very important that we were able to make these allocations to give Departments certainty on their spending and allow them to take decisions to live within their budgets.

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I commend the Finance Minister on her statement and the timely manner in which she published the allocations. It is important that we get allocations to Departments as quickly as possible. Will the Minister outline what funding has been provided to the Department of Health, where it is badly needed?

Caoimhe Archibald (Sinn Féin, East Londonderry)

There is no doubt that the Department of Health faces huge challenges, as do all Departments. The Department of Health, particularly tackling waiting lists, is an Executive priority. The Department of Health bid for £414·9 million resource DEL, which is a greater amount of money than was available to allocate. I have committed to working collaboratively with the Health Minister and am pleased with the positive engagement that I have had with him so far. I hope that the allocation of £122 million, including £0·9 million for health professional training places, will go some way towards easing the many pressures that face the Department. That is the largest allocation to all the Departments and represents 57% of the funding that was available for allocation through June monitoring.

As was the case with the Budget, it was simply not possible to meet all the bids that Departments made. Like other parts of the public sector, our health service is suffering because of decisions taken by the British Government on how they fund public services. At the end of the week, on behalf of the Executive, I will make the case to the incoming British Government that we need to see proper investment in our public services.

Paula Bradshaw (Alliance, Belfast South)

Thank you for your statement, Minister. When officials from the Executive Office came before the Committee for the Executive Office, I raised concern about the quality of the information that we, as a scrutiny Committee, were given about the monitoring bids that went to your Department. Whilst I very much welcome the extra money for Communities in Transition and the good relations fund, I would like a wee bit more information on how the information that your Department receives about allocations across Departments will be made more robust, going forward.

Caoimhe Archibald (Sinn Féin, East Londonderry)

I thank the Member for that question. The Department receives bids through the monitoring round process. There is considerable engagement between my departmental officials and the officials who deal with budgets in the other Departments with a view to understanding the nature of the bids: whether they are inescapable or high priority. That is the basis on which we make decisions about what to allocate. It is an iterative process whereby my officials gather information from the other Departments and use that information to best understand the pressures that those Departments face and therefore to best understand how we can balance meeting the demands across the Departments. Each Minister has a responsibility for their Department and the services that it delivers. My responsibility, as Finance Minister, is to try to ensure that there is the budget to deliver all our public services, across the Departments.

Colm Gildernew (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Minister, thank you for your statement and for the additional allocations that you have announced. Can you outline the resource and capital funding that is being provided to the Department for Communities, le do thoil

[Translation: please]

?

Caoimhe Archibald (Sinn Féin, East Londonderry)

I am glad that the Executive have been able to agree a £20 million allocation for new social housing in the June monitoring round. There was a very limited pot of capital available to us and a huge volume of bids, so I was pleased that a significant proportion of that could be allocated to social housing. I understand that the additional funding will help to deliver around 200 new social homes. We are all very aware, however, of the constraints that existed in our capital budget this year, and, of course, if further capital becomes available in-year, social housing is an area that, hopefully, we can return to for further allocations. I have also written to the Communities Minister to encourage him to look at other sources of funding to see whether there are opportunities to increase the supply of new social and affordable homes this year.

The Communities Department also received £2 million of FTC in June monitoring to develop a scheme that provides support for social enterprises to help individuals to move out of temporary accommodation. That is a very welcome development, and I hope that the Department is able to build on such schemes.

I spoke about the volume of resource bids that we received from Departments compared with the funding that was available, but I was pleased that the Executive were able to agree an additional £10 million allocation to the Department for Communities to provide further support for a range of areas where there is significant need. I know that the Member has previously raised with me areas such as homelessness, the Supporting People programme and the discretionary support scheme. I was also pleased that the Executive were able to provide a small additional allocation in June monitoring for the arts, which we have a significant interest in.

Mark Durkan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as a ráiteas.

[Translation: I thank the Minister for her statement.]

I welcome some of the content of the statement, but, like my colleague, I question the timing of it. Does the Minister agree that all school support staff should access full entitlement to their hard-earned pay award, and will she work with the Education Minister to ensure that staff who claim universal credit can access payment in full without experiencing additional hardship, as was suffered by health workers just last week?

Caoimhe Archibald (Sinn Féin, East Londonderry)

I thank the Member for his question. Finding a solution for education support workers was a priority for me, and I am glad that, working with the Education Minister, we have been able to agree the allocation today. The Education Minister is taking the lead in engaging with trade unions on that, and, if any issues arise, I am sure that he will bring them to my attention and to the attention of Executive colleagues. I will be happy to take on board any issues that arise.

Alan Chambers (UUP, North Down)

I very much welcome many of the allocations. Unfortunately, however, significant questions remain over the deliverability of pay awards for 2024-25. Looking at the Department of Health, can the Minister of Finance confirm that nothing has been allocated to fund even the most basic pay award for our health workers this year?

Caoimhe Archibald (Sinn Féin, East Londonderry)

The Member will be aware that the financial package from last year, which included £584 million for public-sector pay awards, did not have a recurrent element for public-sector pay awards. Therefore, it was for individual Departments to plan on the basis of the funding that was available to them in-year to meet the pay awards that they had agreed in their Department. There are undoubtedly huge challenges across all Departments, given the funding that is available to us. We made some progress during our engagement with Treasury and got an uplift to 24% in our level of need. That provided some additional money in June monitoring, but we will engage with the incoming British Government and make the case that we need proper investment in our public services that shows that we actually value our public-sector workers.

Órlaithí Flynn (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

The Minister touched on the positive allocation for the increase in pay for education workers. Will she comment further on the funding that has been provided to the Department of Education?

Caoimhe Archibald (Sinn Féin, East Londonderry)

The Department of Education's opening budget for 2024-25 saw an increase of 11·6% compared with the opening budget set by the Secretary of State for 2023-24, and that recognised that, despite the increase in funding this year, Education, like many other Departments, faced considerable budget pressures. Therefore, £29·5 million of resource and £15 million of capital have been allocated to the Department to address a range of issues, including supporting special educational needs, which we all recognise is an issue that really needs attention. That is in addition to funding for the Education Authority pay and grading review. I have been working collegiately with the Minister of Education to find a way forward for workers, and I am very pleased that an allocation has been agreed by the Executive. It will allow those staff, who are among the lowest paid in the sector but who play a vital role in supporting our children and young people, to move on to those new pay scales.

We were also able to confirm the allocation of £25 million for childcare based on bids and proposals from the Education Minister.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as ucht a ráitis.

[Translation: I thank the Minister for her statement.]

DFC was able to fund only 400 social house starts for 2024-25. That represents a decrease of 73·4%. The £20 million allocation is welcome. How many starts will that provide?

Caoimhe Archibald (Sinn Féin, East Londonderry)

We all agree that it is far from ideal that we are not meeting our social housing targets. I am sure that every single one of our constituency offices hears day and daily from people who need homes. I understand that the additional funding will provide for around 200 additional new starts. That is a way off our target, so I will continue to work constructively with the Minister for Communities and other Executive colleagues, including the Minister for Infrastructure, to ensure that we have the ability to deliver on our targets.

As well as for funding to deliver day-to-day public services, we will collectively make the case to the British Government for proper investment in infrastructure, because that is where they have fallen far short in recent years. This year, out of our capital budget, we were able to fund only inescapable pressures identified by Departments. That is not where we need to be in order to deliver infrastructure.

Paul Frew (DUP, North Antrim)

Following on from the Minister's answer to Paula Bradshaw, and Paula Bradshaw should know this, there is a duty under the Functioning of Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act (Northern Ireland) 2021 for a Northern Ireland Department to provide the relevant Assembly Committee with a written or oral briefing on the Department's submission to the Department of Finance for each monitoring round no later than seven days after that submission is made. Can the Minister tell the House whether that duty has been fulfilled by all Departments?

Given what the Minister said about there being unanimous support at the Executive for the June monitoring round allocations, is it not hypocritical of the Department of Health and its Minister to support an allocation of £121 million of resource DEL in the June monitoring round but then vote against the Budget?

Caoimhe Archibald (Sinn Féin, East Londonderry)

I am unable to confirm what each individual Department has provided to the relevant Committee. I hope that the Member is satisfied with the engagement that he has had with my officials who, I know, attend the Finance Committee very regularly to brief him and other Committee members on budgetary matters. I encourage other Departments to ensure that their Committees are briefed about the budgetary situation.

We all recognise the challenges facing all Departments, including the Department of Health. I am more than fit for a robust challenge from any of my ministerial colleagues about their budgets, but I am committed to working collectively with them to try to get the best outcome and to make the case as a united Executive about the need for additional funding for public services.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

I thank the Minister for her statement. The allocation of an additional £122 million to the Department of Health is very welcome and demonstrates that the Ulster Unionist Party was entirely correct in its stance that the allocation for this year was well below what was required. Unfortunately, however, although the allocation narrows the budget deficit for patient-facing services, it does not close the gap. Can the Minister therefore give us a commitment that, when further funding becomes available, particularly to deal with the health service's financial pressures, we will be given appropriate prioritisation, because we need it by need and not by apportionment?

Caoimhe Archibald (Sinn Féin, East Londonderry)

I say to the Member that that is how allocations are made. They are made not on a proportional basis but following an assessment of the bids and after trying to understand the need in each Department. I acknowledge that we have not been able to allocate as much money to any Department as we would like to be in a position to allocate. As I said in response to other Members, I will make the case to the incoming British Government that we need to see proper investment in public services. That has been seriously lacking over the past number of years, particularly over the past 14 years, during which we have seen an agenda of austerity and cuts from the Tory Government.

I hope that we will get a change of approach, and certainly I will be making that case to the incoming Government.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

That concludes questions on the statement.

Executive Committee Business

Caoimhe Archibald (Sinn Féin, East Londonderry)

I beg to move

That Standing Orders 10(2) to 10(4) be suspended for 1 July 2024.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

The Business Committee has agreed that there should be no debate on this motion. Before we proceed to the Question, I remind Members that it requires cross-community support.

Resolved (with cross-community support):

That Standing Orders 10(2) to 10(4) be suspended for 1 July 2024.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

I am satisfied that cross-community support has been demonstrated as there were Ayes from all sides of the Chamber.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

The next two items of business are motions on Supply resolutions for the Northern Ireland Main Estimates and Excess Votes. There will be a single debate on both motions. I will ask the Clerk to read the first motion, and I will call on the Minister to move it. The Minister will then commence the debate on the motions as listed in the Order Paper. When all who wish to speak have done so or when the time allocated for the debate has expired, I shall put the Question on the first motion. The second motion will then be read into the record, and I will call the Minister to move it. The Question will then be put on that motion. If that is clear, I shall proceed.

Caoimhe Archibald (Sinn Féin, East Londonderry)

I beg to move

That this Assembly approves that a sum, not exceeding £25,255,627,000, be granted out of the Consolidated Fund, for or towards defraying the charges for the Northern Ireland Departments, the Food Standards Agency, the Northern Ireland Assembly Commission, the Northern Ireland Audit Office, the Northern Ireland Authority for Utility Regulation, the Northern Ireland Public Services Ombudsman, and the Public Prosecution Service for Northern Ireland, for the year ending 31 March 2025 and that resources, not exceeding £28,772,794,000, be authorised for use by the Northern Ireland Departments, the Food Standards Agency, the Northern Ireland Assembly Commission, the Northern Ireland Audit Office, the Northern Ireland Authority for Utility Regulation, the Northern Ireland Public Services Ombudsman and the Public Prosecution Service for Northern Ireland for the year ending 31 March 2025 as summarised for each Department or other public body in column 2 of table 1 in the volume of the Northern Ireland Main Estimates 2024-25 laid before the Assembly on 19 June 2024.

The following motion stood in the Order Paper:

That this Assembly approves that sums be granted out of the Consolidated Fund not exceeding £397,000 for the year ending 31 March 2017 and not exceeding £45,000 for the year ending 31 March 2019 for use by the Public Prosecution Service; that resources not exceeding £11,409,000 for the year ending 31 March 2021 and not exceeding £10,721,000 for the year ending 31 March 2022 be authorised for use by the Department of Education — teachers’ superannuation; and that resources not exceeding £7,380,000 for the year ending 31 March 2023 be authorised for use by the Department of Education; as detailed in the Statement of Excesses 2017, 2019, 2021, 2022, 2023 document laid before the Assembly on 19 June 2024.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

The Business Committee has agreed to allow up to four hours and 30 minutes for the debate. The Minister will have one hour to allocate at her discretion between proposing the motion and making a winding-up speech. A representative of the Opposition will have 10 minutes in which to speak, as will the spokesperson for the Finance Committee. All other Members who are called to speak will have seven minutes.

Caoimhe Archibald (Sinn Féin, East Londonderry)

This debate covers the Supply resolution for the Main Estimates 2024-25 and the Statement of Excesses for 2016-17, 2018-19, 2020-21, 2021-22 and 2022-23, both of which are associated with the Budget (No. 2) Bill, which will be introduced later today.

The Supply resolution for the Main Estimates 2024-25 presented before the House relates to the supply of cash and use of resources for the current 2024-25 year and seeks the Assembly's approval of the 2024-25 spending plans of Departments and other public bodies as set out in the Main Estimates, which were laid in the Assembly on 19 June. The Main Estimates are based on the departmental spending plans set out in the Executive's Budget 2024-25. The restoration of the Executive on 3 February 2024 meant that there was an exceptionally tight time frame in which to develop the Budget. It was always clear that this was going to be an incredibly challenging Budget, and that did not allow for the level of engagement that I would have preferred. Ideally, I would have liked to have published a draft Budget and put it out for 12 weeks' full consultation. That would have helped to inform the Executive's decision on their final Budget. Unfortunately, that was not an option due to time constraints.

Following Executive agreement, I announced the Budget via a written ministerial statement on 25 April. Demand for allocations far outstripped the funding available. With increased demand on services, and rising costs, we simply do not have the Budget to do everything that we would like to do to provide the public services that people deserve. I accept that Executive agreement was not easy. We all had to compromise, but that agreement enabled the Budget to progress. The Budget 2024-25 was subsequently agreed by the Assembly on 28 May following an extensive debate. I will not repeat the same detail in today's speech. The Main Estimates position is set out in the detailed document that has been provided to Members. The Budget (No. 2) Bill reflects the same position. Should the Bill proceed as planned, it is anticipated that it will receive Royal Assent in late September/early October. In the meantime, the 65% Vote on Account, which was agreed by Members in April, provides Departments with the authority to utilise resources and access the cash necessary to deliver services.

The Main Estimates for 2024-25 highlight areas of expenditure or income relying on the sole authority of the Budget. That is where the authority of statutory powers has not yet been obtained through legislation. 'Managing Public Money' provides for that as an interim measure, enabling expenditure until such powers are in place.

The Executive met today to agree the outcome of the June monitoring round, and I made a statement on that just now. Any changes to departmental budgets due to the outcome of June monitoring and any further monitoring rounds that take place in 2024-25 will be reflected in the spring Supplementary Estimates.

In addition to the Main Estimates for 2024-25, I have proposed a Supply resolution for the Statement of Excesses for the years 2016-2017, 2018-2019, 2020-2021, 2021-2022 and 2022-2023, which was also laid on 19 June. Excesses have arisen as a result of breaches of budget control limits or cash limits over prior years, and that requires expenditure to be regularised by the Assembly. Those Excesses were identified by the Public Accounts Committee, and a report was published by the PAC, providing more detail on its findings. The Supply resolution for the Statement of Excesses that I am providing simply implements the exact recommendations made by the Public Accounts Committee.

I am looking forward to putting the 2024-25 spending plans for this year on a legal footing, and I request the support of Members for the resolution of the Main Estimates for 2024-25. That, together with the Budget (No. 2) Bill, which I will introduce today and we will debate tomorrow, will ensure that services continue to be funded for the remainder of this financial year.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

I call the leader of the Opposition, Matthew O'Toole.

Matthew O'Toole (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

Thank you, Mr Speaker. I thank my colleague the Deputy Chair of the Finance Committee for speaking on behalf of the Committee. Given the procedural restrictions of "one Member, one speech", as it were, I felt that it was important that my responsibilities as leader of the Opposition and as Chair of the Finance Committee and the fact that this is a timed debate should mean that I should not give both speeches. I suggest that both roles be looked at by the Procedures Committee going forward.

Today, we are looking at the Supply Estimates, and, tomorrow, we will debate the Second Stage of the Budget (No. 2) Bill. When we came back in February after the collapse of these institutions, as after previous collapses, we were encouraged to believe that there would be a more coherent, systematic and strategic Budget-making process. However, today, we stand up to debate the Estimates document, having just had a statement on June monitoring on 1 July, as I said, three days before a UK general election. In my view, that is in flagrant breach of pre-election guidance published by the Executive Office just a few short weeks ago. It is clearly not strategic, not planned or not forward-looking to have our debates on public finances happening at this point. As the Minister said, we are debating limits that are now, in a sense, out of date.

We will not, as an Opposition, divide the House on today's Estimates, but we will use the opportunity of today's debate and tomorrow's debate on the Budget (No. 2) Bill to make some specific points around the lack of a strategic plan for the rescue and recovery of our public services and, indeed, the lack of a meaningful multi-year Budget.

In the monitoring round that we have just heard about, the Minister made a succession of commitments. Some of those commitments, as she said, are made at risk. They are made at legal risk because the UK Treasury has not laid Main Estimates in the UK Parliament. That is because there is no UK Parliament until the general election on Thursday. So, it is important to acknowledge, first, that, rather than the monitoring round happening as routine business, it is happening in anything but a routine context. Not just is it in contravention, in my view, of the clear pre-election guidance that was issued by the Executive Office just over a month ago but, in addition to that, it is happening at a time when there is "demonstrable and real legal risk". Those are not my words but the words of the Minister's departmental officials. Indeed, she herself used the word "risk" in the oral statement that she has just given, where she has acknowledged that there is specific risk around the allocations because they are not based on a Main Estimates document that has been laid by the UK Treasury in Parliament. That is because, as I said, there is no Parliament. In addition, she said at different times in her oral statement that there is risk that the amount that is ultimately received in the monitoring round could be lower. That is not normal or routine. She said:

"I am content that that is an acceptable risk."

All those risks would, of course, be mitigated if we were to wait a few days and have clarity from a new UK Government.

Of course, with regard to the additional payment — the welcome additional payment, of course — that has been made to education workers, the Minister said in her monitoring round statement:

"utilisation of the funding for that purpose will only occur if the Treasury does not agree to my request to reprofile funding from the financial package."

That does not sound to me like routine business, given that there is no Parliament and that Treasury Ministers are operating in a shadow context. I would not call that normal or routine.

I wanted to use my remarks to highlight the unusual nature of the monitoring round that we have just had, which is connected, because, as we hear in the Finance Committee, all Budget processes are connected to one another. The monitoring round is making allocations that are not reflected in the Estimates document that we are technically debating or the resolution that we are being asked to vote on. Nevertheless, they are welcome allocations. I will not go through them all. The Minister did that in some detail, both in the Chamber and with her colleagues the First Minister and deputy First Minister in front of the cameras outside. Of course, I would add in parenthesis that it is relatively unusual to have a monitoring round statement accompanied by a press conference with the First Minister and deputy First Minister in the Great Hall at Stormont. I am not aware of that happening on too many occasions. That also underscores the fact that there is nothing normal or routine about doing a monitoring round in this way: at legal risk, three days before a UK general election. I think that I have made my point in that regard, but I will keep making that point. I will make those points in correspondence with the head of the Civil Service.

I will talk about the specific Estimates that we are debating. It is important to acknowledge that, when we returned in February, we were in very unusual circumstances. Stormont had been collapsed for the previous two years. Before that, we had two years of a pandemic. Before that, we had three years of collapse. I hope that the new-found commitment to stability from the two leading parties in the Executive will continue, but, in order to deliver on the commitments that the Executive parties have made on rescuing public services, we will need to see not just a monitoring round a few days before an election but a properly thought-through multi-year Budget that is aligned to a Programme for Government. That is not too much to ask. The people of the North have been promised a Government for all. They have been promised leadership and a plan to deliver the rescue of public services, which are in a state of collapse, in many cases. They have not got that yet. They have had a series of disconnected allocations, many of which are, in and of themselves, welcome, but they do not, in any way, represent a strategic plan to rescue and recover public services. That will come only when we have a Programme for Government that is aligned to a multi-year Budget.

As and when a new UK Government are elected later this week, my party will call for an improved financial settlement, as, no doubt, will others, whether they do or do not take their seats at Westminster. In that regard, I will join the Finance Minister and other parties in the Chamber to get the best possible financial settlement for Northern Ireland. We will also call for a multi-year comprehensive spending round, which will allow the Minister and others in the Northern Ireland Executive to deliver properly thought-through, serious, strategic multi-year Budgets that are allied to an outcomes-based Programme for Government. That is what we, as the official Opposition, will call and press for, because, so far, since we returned in February, we have had disjointed allocations — sometimes, made at the last minute, as with today's announcement — and a series of legally meaningless motions brought to the Assembly by Executive parties. By all means, do a last-minute monitoring round in breach, in my view, of the pre-election guidance. Get the cameras into the Great Hall and tell people about the money that you are allocating just days before an election, but be honest with them that you have not yet delivered a proper plan to recover public services.

We, as the official Opposition, will continue to be constructive and robust in calling for that plan. We have not seen it yet — it has not been published today — but I hope that, at some point in the months to come, the people of Northern Ireland will have a proper plan.

Diane Forsythe (DUP, South Down)

The Committee received a briefing from officials on the Main Estimates and the Statement of Excesses at its meeting on 19 June. On behalf of members, I thank officials for that. Additionally, the Committee was briefed on the Budget (No. 2) Bill that the Minister will introduce later today and which will have its Second Stage tomorrow.

Members will be aware that, since the resumption of Assembly business in February, the Budget process has been anything but normal. While the Finance Committee has worked hard to assert its overarching Budget scrutiny role, members are concerned that other Statutory Committees have not been afforded the same scrutiny opportunities for their respective Departments' budgets. The Committee is aware that the Department of Finance did not commission Estimates memoranda from Departments for that exercise, despite that being part of its guidance. Another Statutory Committee raised that as an issue, and the Finance Committee will pursue it with the Department. Such guidelines are in place to create greater transparency in the Budget process, and they are important tools for Committees in their scrutiny of Departments' budgets.

At its meeting on 19 June, the Committee noted the Statement of Excesses. However, as that is primarily an issue for the Public Accounts Committee, I will not offer any Committee view.

The Financial Reporting Act (Northern Ireland) 2022 delivered a number of changes to how financial information is presented in the Estimates and the associated Budget Bill, including clearer alignment of financial information between Budgets, Estimates and accounts and the expenditure of arm's-length bodies and separate controls in the Budget Bill regarding departmental expenditure limits, annually managed expenditure (AME) and non-Budget expenditure. The Committee believes that, while those changes are helpful, there is much more to be done to ensure that budgetary information that Statutory Committees receive is fulsome and timely. The Committee will continue to press for greater transparency and clarity for Committees at every stage of the Budget process.

Members will recall that, in April, the Assembly was asked to agree a larger than normal Vote on Account — 65% of the 2023-24 Budget — that would be sufficient to last until after the summer recess. Today's Main Estimates will begin the process to take us beyond that, and the Budget (No. 2) Bill will provide legislative authority to the Main Estimates, if they are agreed today.

Members will know that it is no secret that the 2024-25 Budget is extremely challenging, even with the additional support from the Executive restoration package settlement and the progress that has been made on a fiscal floor. While the June monitoring round will provide much-needed further funding, it is not sustainable for Departments to rely on the capricious nature of Barnett consequentials to keep them afloat. The Committee will play an active part in ensuring that Northern Ireland gets a better Budget allocation from the UK Government and a revised fiscal floor that is much more reflective of our very different needs.

I turn to table 5 of the Main Estimates document. The Committee noted expenditure in excess of £28 million for which sole authority is sought. As Members are aware, the use of sole authority allows the Assembly to approve expenditure and for it to be legislated for in the Budget Bill where there is no other legislative cover. With respect to the Department of Finance, sole authority is sought for the Fiscal Council. The Committee has pressed and continues to press for legislation to put the independent Fiscal Council on a legislative footing. Considering the work that is required from the Executive restoration package settlement, the Fiscal Council's position must be regularised as soon as possible. The Committee hopes that legislation will be forthcoming before the end of 2024. While the Committee understands the difficulties that the absence of an Executive has caused, the use of sole authority is less than ideal, and the Committee will be watching closely to see how items requiring the use of sole authority in the Main Estimates are legislated for.

The Main Estimates highlight the planned expenditure for 2024-25 and the provisional out-turn for 2023-24 for each Department and body. Members will be aware of the debates that there have been on comparing the opening position for 2024-25 with the provisional out-turn for 2023-24. When briefing the Committee, Department of Finance officials indicated that it is more appropriate to compare like with like; that is the opening positions for different financial years or the closing or actual out-turn position for different years. The sizeable in-year funding flows that we see make that the most sensible way to compare Budgets. The Fiscal Council has indicated that the dependence of many Departments on those in-year allocations is symptomatic of our inadequate block grant and provides a strong case for raising our fiscal floor to reflect our actual financial needs.

I now turn to the Department of Finance's Estimates. The Department has made a request for resources of a net cash requirement of £282 million and a further request for resources net cash requirement with respect to pension schemes that it manages of £83 million. As Members will be aware, Finance is one of four Departments that have an additional request for resources (RfR) covering pension schemes, the others being Health, Justice and Education. The Department's Main Estimates reflect its position as an administrative Department that provides shared services across Departments. As such, the significant majority of its budget is used for administrative rather than programme purposes. The Committee has taken a specific interest in the Department of Finance's contingent liabilities outlined in the Main Estimates and liaised closely with the Department on them. The Committee also notes the superannuation and other allowances contained in the Department of Finance's second request for resources.

While the Committee is aware that the Main Estimates Supply resolution debate reflects a largely technical exercise, it has applied an appropriate degree of scrutiny. On the basis of members' agreement at our meeting on 26 June to accelerated passage for the Budget (No. 2) Bill, the Committee for Finance supports today's Supply resolution motions.

I will now add some add comments as DUP finance spokesperson. The Democratic Unionist Party and Gavin Robinson MP have long led the charge for a new needs-based funding model for Northern Ireland. With that campaign now mainstream, the Government have been forced to accept a new definition of our need going forward. However, fundamental problems remain unresolved. While other parties welcomed the financial package presented by the Government on the return of devolution earlier this year, it was the DUP that made it clear that what was offered fell well short of what was required to put public finances on a stable footing. The failure to baseline the formula from the CSR period in 2022 will lead us to a further cliff edge in just two years' time. At that point, funding levels will again drop below what is required to fairly and sustainably fund our services here. We in the DUP believe that that situation is unacceptable, and we are committed, as we have been, to working on that on a long-term basis.

In the meantime, every party here needs to be honest and realistic about our finances in Northern Ireland. Just as every household knows when it needs to tighten its budget across spending streams when it has less money, the Northern Ireland Executive need to tighten their budgets across every Department when they have less money. This is a challenging Budget. We would like to see more money, and our DUP representatives will continue the fight for more. In the meantime, we need to see every Department take active steps to acknowledge its budget, act responsibly and do its best to deliver within it.

The people of Northern Ireland deserve to know that all their Ministers will do their best to spend responsibly, despite being dissatisfied. How else will the Northern Ireland Assembly and the Executive ever prove to the UK Treasury that we can manage more funding well? This process is not ideal, but we need to do our best to make it work for those we represent. Every Minister and their Department need to be open, honest and transparent with their Statutory Committee, the Assembly and the public. We need to do our best to deliver value for public money and make Northern Ireland work at its very best. We support this step.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

I call Nicola Brogan. Miss Brogan, you have seven minutes, as have all other Members from here on.

Nicola Brogan (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle.

[Translation: Thank you, Mr Speaker.]

I start by thanking the Finance Minister for the work that she has done on an extremely challenging Budget and for bringing forward the Main Estimates, which will give effect to that Budget. I also acknowledge the announcement made earlier today in which the allocations for June monitoring were outlined. There is an urgent need to provide funding certainty to Departments. Even a short delay to those funds being released presented risks for Departments and their work going forward. Proceeding now allows time for Assembly debate and scrutiny in advance of the summer recess and allows Members to discuss these important issues. Departments and the groups that they support urgently require certainty on funding for the immediate future, and the Minister has delivered that.

While the British Government's 14 years of austerity Budgets have represented a relentless assault on low-paid workers, I am pleased to see that the Minister continues to stand by their side, providing £43·7 million for education support staff, who do vital work that often goes unrecognised and has been undervalued for far too long. Minister Archibald has also continued to demonstrate her and Sinn Féin's commitment to health. Once again, the Department of Health has been prioritised, with more than half of the total June monitoring allocation going to that Department. That will, of course, be welcomed by the Department, the health and social care trusts and the healthcare workforce.

As a member of the AERA Committee and Sinn Féin spokesperson on the environment, I welcome the £1·5 million that Minister Archibald has designated to DAERA for Lough Neagh initiatives. The lough is of huge environmental, economic and historical significance to all of Ireland, and we have worked on the issue of blue-green algae blooms with various stakeholders, so I personally thank the Minister for the additional support.

I also welcome the Minister's commitment to continue to battle with the Treasury to secure proper funding for the people of the North. It is now accepted that the North has been chronically underfunded for years, and I appreciate the Minister's ongoing work to increase that funding.

In producing the Main Estimates, the Minister has dealt with an extremely complex task in the most difficult of circumstances. I commend her for remaining true to her principles and the commitments she gave when taking on the role. I am content that the Minister has done and will continue to do all in her power to shield as many people here as possible from Tory austerity. I commend and support the motion.

Eóin Tennyson (Alliance, Upper Bann)

I rise on behalf of the Alliance Party to support the Supply resolutions for the Main Estimates and Statement of Excesses.

The Estimates, based on the departmental spending plans set out in the Executive's Budget for 2024-25, lay bare the enormous challenges facing every Executive Department. By this stage, the context is well rehearsed: 14 years of Conservative chaos at Westminster has damaged our economy and starved public services of vital investment. However, the decade of stop-start government in this place has also robbed us of key opportunities to stabilise and transform our finances. Indeed, the timing of the return of the Executive has placed us in an invidious position where we have not been able to consult fully on the Budget before the Main Estimates. What is required is not just a change of Government at Westminster but an equally significant change of attitude in the Assembly, with a focus on reforming our institutions so that never again can they be held to ransom by a single party.

As I said when we debated the Budget, it is not about whether we believe that the sums of money before us are sufficient — we all know that they are not; it is about whether we believe that this represents a fair attempt at allocating what are so obviously insufficient resources. Irrespective of our views on the Budget, it is vital that the Estimates and the Budget Bill proceed at pace to ensure that Departments continue to have legal authority to draw down cash, otherwise they will be constrained by spending limits put in place by the previous Vote on Account.

Of course, the Estimates simply present an opening picture and will be updated as additional funding becomes available through future monitoring rounds. Indeed, I am pleased that the June monitoring was agreed this morning by the Executive, allocating essential additional funding for health, housing, Lough Neagh and our education workers. However, I am bemused that June monitoring has occurred only now, on 1 July, particularly when we know that the Finance Minister wrote to the First Minister and deputy First Minister on 30 May requesting a meeting. That such significant funding was held up by either inertia or dysfunction in the Executive Office raises questions about its effectiveness and scrutiny. At one stage, it looked as though the Education Minister was forced to kite-fly his June monitoring bids in order to force his colleagues' hands to convene a meeting. That is not good enough, but I am glad that the situation now appears to have been rectified.

The Main Estimates highlight that over £28 million in spending for vital projects, including welfare mitigation, the Fiscal Council and tackling violence against women and girls, continues to rest on the sole authority of the Budget Act. The use of the so-called black box has ballooned far beyond the intended £1·5 million limit in the absence of an Assembly in five of the last seven years. In the interests of good governance, it is imperative that more appropriate statutory powers are legislated for by the Executive over the coming months and years.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

I thank the Member for giving way. The Member has brought up an interesting point about the black box. I am glad to see that that has reduced significantly from the £1 billion that it used to be to a much lower figure. However, I remind the Minister and, indeed, everybody else on the Finance Committee that the figure should be less than £1 million.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

The Member has an extra minute.

Eóin Tennyson (Alliance, Upper Bann)

I agree entirely with the Member.

I turn to points that were raised in the debate and in response to the Minister's statement. Mr Aiken claimed that the Ulster Unionist Party's position was vindicated, and I want to challenge that. It had been suggested that we delay the Budget and, as a consequence, the Main Estimates to ensure that June monitoring could be included at this stage. Not only was that approach prohibited by the Northern Ireland Act 1998 and, therefore, not possible, it would have carried significant risk for no practical benefit. That has been borne out today, because we have been able to allocate additional funding to the Department of Health without following the wisdom previously expressed by Mr Aiken. His approach would have carried the significant risks of prolonged uncertainty, starker and deeper cuts later in the financial year, overspend and Treasury recalling the £559 million in debt forgiveness. All the while, as we know from our experience today, the amounts in June monitoring could be allocated anyway and provided for in the Supplementary Estimates. I am grateful that the Ulster Unionist Party is not in charge of our purse strings at this juncture.

The DUP asserted during the debate that all other parties welcomed the financial package. Whilst all other parties welcomed the progress that was made on the financial package, we were all clear that it did not solve all the issues or provide sustainable finances for Northern Ireland in the long term. Indeed, if the DUP wishes to take a cursory glance at Hansard or at my media appearances, it will see that that has been our position.

I also remind Members that it was the DUP's boycott of the Assembly. The rest of us said consistently that there was no good reason for the Assembly and the Executive to be collapsed. The DUP made clear that it was boycotting the Assembly not over finances but over academic arguments about Brexit. It has much to answer for in regard to the position that it took and the damage that it caused to our public services. None of us on these Benches will take lectures from the DUP about the damage to our finances.

Brian Kingston (DUP, Belfast North)

Will the Member give way?

Eóin Tennyson (Alliance, Upper Bann)

I will indeed.

Brian Kingston (DUP, Belfast North)

When the DUP took a stand to restore our place in the UK internal market, the Member's party was calling for the rigorous implementation of the Northern Ireland protocol, which the EU then agreed to renegotiate. Will the Member and his colleagues not take the opportunity to apologise to the people of Northern Ireland for calling for the rigorous implementation of a document that was damaging to our place in the UK economy and that, subsequently, the EU agreed to renegotiate? It was the DUP that secured those improvements to our economic situation.

Eóin Tennyson (Alliance, Upper Bann)

I will address those comments before returning to the substance of the debate. You can smell the burning rubber all over the Assembly from the U-turns that the DUP has conducted since 2016. Unlike the DUP, the Alliance Party has been consistent. We warned the DUP that there was no such thing as a good or sensible Brexit and that it would be hoist by its own petard. We warned the DUP not to trust Boris Johnson, because it would be thrown under the bus —

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

Order.

Eóin Tennyson (Alliance, Upper Bann)

— whatever was written on the side of it.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

I encourage the Member to return to the content of the debate. It is not a debate on Brexit.

Eóin Tennyson (Alliance, Upper Bann)

I will return to the debate, but, in fairness, the Member raised the point, and, with respect, Mr Speaker, he was not challenged on its substance.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

He may be guilty of diverting you, but that does not mean that you have to take the diversion

[Laughter.]

Eóin Tennyson (Alliance, Upper Bann)

I will return to the substance of the debate, Mr Speaker, because I think that I have answered the Member's points adequately.

There is no doubt that the challenges facing our finances are huge. We have, however, made significant progress in obtaining concessions from Treasury that our funding formula was not fit for purpose. The interim fiscal framework is a gateway to obtaining a properly baselined fiscal floor that reflects our relative need and the fiscal levers that we require to deliver sustainable finances. If, however, we are to be taken seriously as a negotiating partner, we must continue to show leadership and engage in responsible, mature government, even when the choices are difficult. That is why the Alliance Party supports the resolutions, and we urge other Members to do so.

Tom Elliott (UUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I speak on behalf of the Committee. First, I apologise to the Minister that I was not in my place for her speech. I also declare an interest: as a farmer, some aspects of the finances may implicate me to some degree. I welcome, however, the opportunity to speak on behalf of the Committee on the Supply resolution for the Main Estimates 2024-25, which set out detailed spending plans for the Department of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs. DAERA is not part of the Statement of Excesses, so I will not refer to that document.

Looking at the overall picture for DAERA in purely comparative terms, we see that, relative to last year, the total net resource budget for 2024-25 is significantly lower, at about £624 million, than the total provision for 2023-24, which was approximately £764 million. The total net capital budget for 2024-25 is £95 million, compared with about £97·5 million for 2023-24. Those allocations do not come close to what is needed and to what DAERA bid for. For example, there were capital bids from DAERA for £155 million, including earmarked funding, of which only 61·2% are marked as inescapable and pre-committed. The total allocation is well below that, at £95 million. We expect extra in-year funding, of course, but it is a concerning start that DAERA will need in-year provision of about £150 million of resource funding just to match last year's budget.

The Committee has held meetings with the Minister and DAERA officials on the budgetary pressures in 2023-24 and into 2024-25. I highlighted those pressures in the Chamber on 9 April. We further heard from officials on 6 June about DAERA's allocations and the June monitoring round bids. I will come to those shortly and again later on.

I will focus now on the subheading detail under the total net budget. Food and farming allocations are relatively stable compared with last year in both resource and capital terms, with resource funding of about £443 million, compared with £444 million last year, and capital funding of about £64 million, compared with £60 million last year. That does not mean that there is enough to do all that is needed or desired, but that area has at least received allocations similar to the overall funding for 2023-24 as a starting point.

The same, however, cannot be said of funding for veterinary and animal health, which is down on last year's opening allocations by £20 million of resource and about £6 million of capital. The Committee has heard about the increase in bovine TB, difficulties with vet recruitment and the need to monitor other animal diseases and improve animal welfare. This Budget will not support the Minister in that regard.

The resource allocation for rural affairs is about £19 million, compared with about £17 million last year. Capital funding is up from £2·7 million to £4·6 million. With the loss of EU funding in that area, however, it is doubtful that that funding will be sufficient to make up the shortfall.

It is of concern to see the resource budget for the environment, marine and fisheries at an allocation of about £66 million, around £8 million lower than last year. The capital budget has remained similar at around £20·5 million, compared with around £19 million. On its visit to Kilkeel last week, the Committee heard of the investment needed in the fishing industry. We still wait to see a draft climate action plan, a plan for Lough Neagh and an environmental improvement plan. With a reduced resource budget, the Committee will be keen to discuss where the money is coming from.

What does all of that mean in practice? While any financial allocation is helpful, this allocation does not meet requirements. At a briefing on 6 June, we were advised by officials that the outcome was extremely difficult for the Department. There is no additional funding to take forward new work. Statutory obligations such as TB compensation and funding for the Office for Environmental Protection (OEP) are not covered, and there are unfunded contractual pressures, such as pay and pensions and rising utility costs. There is no funding to reverse the 2023-24 decisions that were taken to help DAERA live within last year's budget.

The Committee heard from officials that the Minister has agreed reductions in funding for the food, farming and rural affairs group, the veterinary service animal health group and the strategic planning and corporate services group in order to create £2·4 million for additional work by the Northern Ireland Environment Agency (NIEA), the environment, marine and fisheries group and the climate change and science innovation group. It is of huge concern to the Committee to hear that the Minister is relying on June monitoring and potentially subsequent monitoring rounds to meet statutory and contractual elements, including a specific bid for bovine TB compensation.

It is an understatement to say that there is a challenging financial time ahead. However, the lack of a Programme for Government makes it more difficult to support and scrutinise the Minister's spending decisions. The Committee's scrutiny has also been hampered by having no sight of the Department's business plan for 2024-25 or that of the Northern Ireland Environment Agency. We were to receive a written briefing tomorrow, but the Department has cancelled that due to slippage in the time frame.

I will finish there on behalf of the Committee and briefly make a few comments on behalf of the Ulster Unionist Party. We have highlighted the concern to assist in the reduction and eradication of bovine TB. It is important to the entire community that we deal with that issue.

The second issue is climate change. A huge issue was made when the Climate Change Act (Northern Ireland) 2022 was passed, but there is now no or, I should say, very little specific funding to support it. We heard that the Minister has reallocated some funding to help with that, but there is nothing for a just transition.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

The Member's time is up.

Tom Elliott (UUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Belfast South)

As Question Time begins at 2.00 pm, I suggest that the Assembly takes its ease until then. The debate will continue after Question Time, when the next Member to speak will be Paul Frew. The top Table will now be changed.

The debate stood suspended.

(Mr Deputy Speaker [Dr Aiken] in the Chair)

Oral Answers to Questions — Infrastructure

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

We will start with listed questions.

Trevor Clarke (DUP, South Antrim)

1. Mr Clarke asked the Minister for Infrastructure to outline what savings he anticipates from the reduction of grass cutting for the 2024-25 financial year. (AQO 680/22-27)

David Brooks (DUP, Belfast East)

4. Mr Brooks asked the Minister for Infrastructure to outline the work he is undertaking with other agencies and public-sector bodies to improve the maintenance of grass areas in local communities. (AQO 683/22-27)

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

With your permission, Mr Deputy Speaker, I will answer questions 1 and 4 together.

My Department's approach to verge management has recently changed to increase the focus on environmental benefit without compromising on road safety or our duties to deal with noxious weeds. That change occurred because I recognise the environmental benefits of road verges. Our approach seeks to allow wildflowers and wildlife to thrive. By reducing the areas of verge cut on many roads to a single swathe or, where possible, without compromising on road safety, reducing to a single cut later in the season, it is possible to increase the focus on environmental benefit.

Only the areas that can be left uncut without compromising on road safety are left unmown. That approach will deliver benefits in promoting biodiversity. However, it is not designed to be a cost-saving measure. The changes that I have made are for environmental reasons, rather than to cut costs. Given the size of the network, recent inflationary pressures and the safety requirements, there will not be any significant savings. Regardless, my Department works with other agencies and public-sector bodies. It has a memorandum of understanding with Causeway Coast and Glens Borough Council to pilot biodiversity on a number of road verges in the area. The aim is to lower the fertility of the soil and adopt a cut-and-collect approach to grass cutting to allow for the establishment of native wildflowers.

Other enhanced verge maintenance, including additional grass cutting and landscaping of verges and roundabouts, is undertaken by councils, based on their own local arrangements. My Department continues to work with councils. I encourage others to adopt an approach to the maintenance of grass areas that is similar to the one that I introduced last year.

Trevor Clarke (DUP, South Antrim)

I thank the Minister for his answer. Minister, I accept the biodiversity aspect of your answer, but will you write to your divisional offices to enforce that message to them? I think that, in my constituency of South Antrim, the road verges are running the risk of compromising road safety. Many of the road verges in South Antrim are not being cut, particularly at road junctions and rural schools. There is a real risk to road safety in that regard.

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

I encourage the Member to contact — I am sure that he has — his divisional office first. However, if he wishes to write to me directly, I am more than happy to engage with the divisional offices about any areas that he has significant concern about.

The message is quite clear: the policy cannot compromise road safety. Sight lines etc must be maintained. I accept that my colleagues across the North are operating under huge financial strain and that there are staffing issues. I am sure that they are doing their best to ensure that sight lines and safety are the number-one priority, but I am happy to follow up on any individual cases that the Member has.

David Brooks (DUP, Belfast East)

I thank the Minister for his response so far, which has, largely, addressed my point. I am receiving an increasing number of complaints about grass cutting because, when it takes place in an area, it looks more hacked than mowed. Although I understand that there is a change in emphasis, surely, if we are going to do a job, it is worth doing it well. We should take some pride in our communities.

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

I fully accept the Member's point. We operate a number of systems. We have our own operatives, who work for DFI, and we have a number of private contractors that carry out work for the Department. Both should always strive to ensure that we maintain our areas to the highest standard.

I accept that grass is much more difficult to maintain when it is cut only once a season and is longer. There will have to be a capital investment in my Department and by some of the contractors as we move forward with the scheme. We want to ensure that we lift the grass as well as cut it. Lifting the grass removes the nutrients from the soil, and wildflowers grow better in soil with fewer nutrients. We will have to make those investments during my period in office. As we award new contracts, some of our contractors will have to make those investments as well.

Nicola Brogan (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

Will the Minister consider a wildflower planting scheme for road verges to promote biodiversity and reduce maintenance costs?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

Yes. We wish to expand on the scheme that I introduced last year, or even the year before. As I said to Mr Brooks, it takes time for us to prepare the ground properly for that. As I said, we will have to invest in new equipment. We will also have to ensure that the soil is ready for planting wildflower seed so that they grow and prosper, and the biodiversity comes from that. The aesthetics of that will be quite pleasing as well.

Sinéad McLaughlin (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

The A6 has had cones on it from Dungiven to Drumahoe in Derry for the past three weeks for grass cutting. Is there any way that that can be sped up on what is a main arterial route? The delays that are happening on that main road are shocking.

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

I will follow that up with my officials. I am not sure why it is taking that length of time to provide that service in the area: it may be weather-related.

Brian Kingston (DUP, Belfast North)

As the Minister may recall, I wrote to him regarding the Comber greenway, with thanks to my colleagues from Strangford. I run along the greenway, and there is a section, about a mile from Comber, the responsibility for which falls to his Department, that is heavily overgrown by plants. It is a health and safety issue because, as he will know, it is a shared greenway for cyclists, runners, walkers and people with prams. That section is very narrow because of the extent of the growth. I understand all the issues around the environment and plants, but it is a dangerous section —.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

Question, please, Brian.

Brian Kingston (DUP, Belfast North)

I ask the Minister to instruct his officials to look at the width of the path, which is less than a metre. Groups of cyclists like to go past at great speed.

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

I will certainly ask my officials to look at that. It would be useful if the Member were able to identify the exact location for me.

Diane Forsythe (DUP, South Down)

2. Ms Forsythe asked the Minister for Infrastructure when the A2 Shore Road, Rostrevor will fully reopen following last year's landslide. (AQO 681/22-27)

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

I recognise the inconvenience that has been caused by the temporary closure of one lane on the A2 Shore Road in Rostrevor, due to a landslip that was caused by severe weather in November 2023. My Department is finalising a design to put in place a temporary solution to move the concrete blocks on to the roadside verge, in order to allow the road to be reopened to two-way traffic. We will then appoint a contractor to take that forward as soon as possible. I am aware that the embankment is under the control of the Forest Service and is in an area of outstanding natural beauty. My Department will continue to liaise with colleagues in DAERA, the Forest Service and the NI Environment Agency to progress those works.

Diane Forsythe (DUP, South Down)

I thank the Minister for his response. Some eight months on from the slippage, I am sure that he understands the frustration that is expressed regularly in my constituency office. He also knows that I believe that the roads in South Down are some of the worst in Northern Ireland and that I have been consistent in taking every opportunity to raise that. Whilst I welcome the commencement of some of the works, can he give me an update on when the resurfacing from Kilkeel to Newcastle will be scheduled?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

I cannot confirm the exact timing, but I will ask officials to contact the Member in relation to that. The reality is that many of our roads, across all our constituencies, are in a dire state as a result of over a decade of underinvestment. I can assure the Member that I am doing all that is in my power to secure additional funding. We are also looking at how we can use our funding in the most effective and efficient way in relation to improving road surfaces. I suppose that one area has to be the worst of all, but I am not sure that we can award that accolade just yet. I have more information to gather before I can hand out such an unwelcome accolade.

Sinéad Ennis (Sinn Féin, South Down)

The partial closure of the A2 Shore Road at Rostrevor has caused much chaos locally. I welcome the Minister's commitment to a plan to make sure that both lanes will be opened. Will he explain why it has taken so long to put in a temporary solution?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

The area involved, as I said, is in an area of outstanding natural beauty, so we have to be mindful of that when we are planning or seeking on-site inspections to determine how we are going to solve the issue permanently. It is quite a difficult site to work in, and we have had to bring in geotechnical engineers to examine it. Once a plan is in place, I can assure the Member that we will move ahead as quickly as possible.

Another area where there has been a significant landslide may come up in this Question Time. It is worth noting that major weather events are having an impact, not only on the quality of road surfaces but on the surrounding landscapes. We are seeing more landslides on to roads, which are proving quite expensive and technically difficult to repair.

Mark Durkan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

3. Mr Durkan asked the Minister for Infrastructure how much funding has been allocated to phase 3 of the railway line between Coleraine and the north-west. (AQO 682/22-27)

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

My Department approved the business case for phase 3 of the Derry to Coleraine project in November 2022 and issued a letter of offer for £97·7 million to take forward that important project for the north-west. I fully recognise the need to address regional imbalance and to better connect our communities, including those that are in the north-west. This year, therefore, I have ring-fenced £4·7 million in my budget to ensure that the Coleraine to Derry phase 3 project proceeds as quickly as possible. That budget allocation is additional to the £5·3m that has already been spent on the project. It will allow Translink to progress the project as planned and to ensure that there is investment in public transport across the entire region. Work has commenced on producing the required 55,000 railway sleepers for the project and on the procurement of the technical and engineering teams that are required to take the project forward to the main works start date of 2026.

Mark Durkan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

I thank the Minister for his answer. Minister, £4·7 million is a far cry from the £97 million that you told the House had been approved for the project. You say that the project is proceeding as planned, but it was planned to start in 2025, and this is the second 12-month slippage that we have seen in your first months as Minister. Can you say that phase 3 will proceed as a matter of urgency and that you will do more to get more money for it?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

Mr Deputy Speaker, you would be forgiven for thinking that there is an election in the air.

[Laughter.]

You would nearly think that there was an election in the air, because Mr Durkan has been promoting the inaccuracy — the falsehood — in the local papers that I delayed the upgrade, and I saw in this morning's 'The Irish News' that I have delayed the upgrade.

Mark Durkan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

[Inaudible.]

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

I did not say that it was you; I said that it was in it.

That is a complete falsehood. It is a complete inaccuracy. If you are going to be a constructive Opposition, state the facts. The facts are that I have been in post for four months and that, when I came into post, I committed to ensuring that the upgrade would go ahead. How do you ensure that an upgrade goes ahead? You ring-fence the budget for it. I ring-fenced the budget to make sure that it can go ahead.

I am sure that you are not as soft as you walk. You know as well as I do that there is no three-year Budget in place, and you know as well as I do that you can ring-fence only one year of a budget. What have I done? I have ring-fenced one year of a budget. What else have I done? I have made sure that the project will go ahead. Do you know what I will do next year? I will ring-fence the necessary budget to allow the project to go ahead.

You are on your election trail, and that is fair enough — we all do it — but do not try to rob the eye of the electorate by telling falsehoods.

[Interruption.]

I am the only Minister —.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

Minister, please address your remarks through the Chair. Yes, we have all had a little bit of fun, and, yes, that is election behaviour, but you know as well as I do —.

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

I certainly do.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

That is it. OK.

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

Mr Deputy Speaker, the only person who has secured any progress on this upgrade thus far is me. The only person who has secured a budget for this project thus far is me. I will ensure that the project is delivered in its entirety.

Ciara Ferguson (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

I very much welcome our Minister's announcement of phase 3. Minister, will you provide an update on the feasibility study on constructing a new railway line from Portadown to Derry?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

We have secured funding for that programme through the UK's Union connectivity review. The programme also fits in with the all-island rail review. That is important investment for moving on to the further steps that are needed to ensure that we deliver on commitments not only to address regional imbalance but on the exciting programme of work that is outlined in the all-island rail review. I hope to be able to present that all-island rail review to the Executive later this month. That has to be done in conjunction with my colleagues in the Cabinet in Dublin, as it is a joint project. These are exciting times for our railway service, including that to Derry.

John Blair (Alliance, South Antrim)

Does the Minister intend to progress work on the Knockmore line in this financial year and, if so, how?

That connection of Lisburn, Antrim and the International Airport would be of vital benefit all the time, not just at election time.

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

I do not have all the information about the Knockmore line in front of me, but it is an important connection that we have to move ahead with. There are feasibility studies that my Department is required to carry out to open up the rail network as it should be opened up and to correct the mistakes that were made 60 years ago. I am looking at funding opportunities for how we can do that, not only in my Department but North/South and towards Britain. I hope to make positive announcements on some of those matters in the time ahead, but I assure the Member that I am focused on ensuring that we open up our rail network again.

Justin McNulty (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

Minister, in the context of the all-island strategic rail review, will you give us an update on the reopening of the Armagh to Portadown rail link, please?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

Again, a feasibility study has been carried out of that exciting opportunity. My Department has significant investments to make in the time ahead to correct regional imbalances in roads. The next phase of major investments from my Department will have to be in our rail network. I will make decisions on progressing that throughout my time in office, but some of those decisions will not come to fruition until I leave. However, I assure the Member that I will put in place the foundations to ensure that the next Infrastructure Minister — maybe even the following one, because this will take several decades to deliver — has a master plan to deliver a modern rail network across the island.

Deborah Erskine (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

5. Mrs Erskine asked the Minister for Infrastructure whether he will undertake an evaluation of the effectiveness of the planning system in assisting in the delivery of the shared rural network programme, compared to the rest of the UK. (AQO 684/22-27)

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

My Department maintains a positive working relationship with mobile operators and remains committed to working constructively with the industry and other key stakeholders to consider relevant matters as appropriate through the auspices of the DFE-led Barrier Busting Taskforce. The Barrier Busting Taskforce planning subgroup aims to identify barriers relating to the planning system and to investigate best practice in mobile network development; how the planning legislative guidance frameworks compare with other jurisdictions; and how local development plans can take account of the changing nature of mobile telecoms development. It is at an early stage in its deliberations, and many of the issues raised by the industry will be considered by the subgroup. In particular, it will be important for the planning subgroup to collect evidence on what is leading to perceived delays in the processing of planning applications for mobile network infrastructure, which are processed by local councils. Any recommendations arising from the outworkings of the task force and its subgroup will be brought to me and other stakeholders in due course.

Deborah Erskine (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I thank the Minister for his answer. I welcome the fact that it is cross-departmental, but I am aware of seven planning applications that have been taken out of the system for the shared rural network programme. In rural areas, that will have a major impact on mobile connectivity and our ability to grow our economy, businesses and all of that. Outdated planning policy is hindering the project, so what exactly will the Minister do to solve that issue quickly, before we are left behind?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

I thank the Member for her supplementary question. I am not sure who has taken those seven applications out. Is it the operators or the councils? I do not know, but I know this: there is no point in having a multi-Department task force that has key stakeholders on it and me standing here and telling them what the answers are. Let us wait for their report. I met them recently, but let us wait for the report and the information coming back from them, and then I will take action where, I believe, it is required.

The vast majority of the applications are dealt with by councils, so you might want to speak to some of your council colleagues about how the process operates at different councils. If there is a requirement for a change of policy, we can look at that, but let us wait for the evidence from the task force.

Sinéad Ennis (Sinn Féin, South Down)

6. Ms Ennis asked the Minister for Infrastructure to outline his plans to reduce road deaths. (AQO 685/22-27)

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

It is a matter of deep regret that we continue to see so many lives lost on our roads. We must remember that each life lost is not merely a statistic but a family member, a parent, a child or a friend. As of 23 June, 31 people had lost their lives on our roads this year. Those deaths cause so much pain to families and tear communities apart. This month, I brought a revised road safety strategy to the Executive for their agreement. A digital advertising campaign is nearing completion, and, last week, the British Heart Foundation became the latest organisation to partner with us by pledging to Share the Road to Zero.

The Share the Road to Zero strategy is an important document in refocusing minds and energies on creating safe roads, safe vehicles and safe people. However, it is only the collective efforts of us all that will truly make a difference. My officials are working alongside those in other Executive Departments and the emergency services to ensure that we have a single, agreed and collaborative approach to road safety. Once the outworkings of the Budget are fully known, officials will work with road safety partners to agree a forward action plan covering engineering, enforcement and education.

Sinéad Ennis (Sinn Féin, South Down)

I thank the Minister for that response. I am glad to hear him talking about a collective effort. I agree that it will take everybody shouldering responsibility to deal with this. Will the Minister outline what measures are being taken to address some of those illegal road behaviours?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

Illegal road behaviours and detection of them fall to the PSNI. We work closely with our partners in the PSNI on the promotion of road safety. I am engaging with my colleagues in the Department on bringing forward further legislation on drink-driving, drug-driving, being distracted while driving a vehicle and other matters to improve road safety. It will then be a matter for the PSNI to enforce that.

The most important aspect of road safety is road user behaviour, whether you are a driver, cyclist, motorcyclist or pedestrian. How you use the road is the most important thing as to whether you arrive home safely or the person that you are sharing the road with arrives home safely. Yes, there are engineering solutions, education solutions and enforcement solutions, but, if every one of us corrects or challenges our own behaviour, we will see a significant decline in serious injuries and casualties on our roads. The figures this year are just awful: there have been 33 deaths so far this year. I appeal to road users: treat yourself with respect, and treat other drivers and road users with respect.

Stephen Dunne (DUP, North Down)

I welcome the progress on the Department's road safety strategy and the interim targets of 50% by 2030 and zero by 2050. Does the Minister share my concerns about figures released just last week by the Department of Justice that drink- and drug-driving convictions are up by almost 20% in the last four years? A lot more needs to be done to tackle that serious problem. Maybe he can elaborate on what, he feels, could be done.

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

It is shocking to hear those figures. Some of that may be down to more detection by the PSNI, but there is no excuse or reason for anybody to get behind the wheel of a vehicle or any other form of transport if they have taken alcohol or drugs that would affect their ability to manage that vehicle. I am looking at introducing stricter drink-driving regulations. I am also seeking to see how I can support the PSNI in its roadside detections of drugs. There are many areas of our driving and road safety where education is required, particularly for younger drivers, but everyone knows that it is absolutely unacceptable to get behind the wheel of a vehicle having taken alcohol or drugs that affect your behaviour. It is just totally unacceptable.

Brian Kingston (DUP, Belfast North)

7. Mr Kingston asked the Minister for Infrastructure whether he will consider introducing a one-way system in the neighbouring streets around Seaview Primary School, North Belfast, to ease congestion, in consultation with the school and local community. (AQO 686/22-27)

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

Traffic congestion occurs at Seaview Primary School due to a concentration of vehicles arriving and departing within a short period. Such congestion, which is normal at most schools during drop-off and pickup times, is usually of relatively short duration. I can advise that officials from Roads eastern division have been in discussions with the school and the PSNI regarding various issues over a number of years. During that time, a number of "School Keep Clear" road markings have been introduced in some of the streets around the school. It is acknowledged that the streets around the school are busy. However, no excessive traffic progression issues have been noted. Any congestion that occurs tends to clear quickly.

While there are no plans to introduce additional measures at the school, I can advise that inconsiderate parking or parking in such a way as to cause an obstruction is an offence that the PSNI can deal with.

Brian Kingston (DUP, Belfast North)

Thank you, Minister, for listing the ways in which this has been considered in the past; I am disappointed, though, that there is no undertaking to at least look again at it. The matter is raised regularly with me by residents close to Seaview Primary School and by the school principal and parents. I have raised it with departmental officials, and they gave me an undertaking that it would be looked at. It sounds from your answer as though it will not be looked at. It is an area of tightly packed, narrow streets and terraced housing from an era when many people did not have cars. Whilst I accept that congestion is always an issue around schools —

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

Could the Member ask a question?

Brian Kingston (DUP, Belfast North)

— there is a particular need in that area. I will follow it up with officials, and I would appreciate it if the Minister could at least lean on them and ask, "Look, can this be looked at again?". That is the only supplementary comment that I want to make.

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

I come from a generation, maybe like you, that walked to school. I am from a rural background, and I let my children know that it was three miles that I had to walk to school and back. Some days, I say that it was five miles; other days, I say that it was seven.

My point is that we need to encourage more parents and children to walk to school. I accept that, in some circumstances — the road layout or other matters — that is not safe. It is not a blanket solution, but, particularly in urban areas, we have to encourage more children to walk or cycle to school. I know that there is an onus on my Department to ensure that the proper facilities and engineering solutions are in place for active travel, and I will bring those forward as we work our way through the active travel policy.

The reality, Mr Kingston, is that the issues around Seaview Primary School are not unique; they can be found in any urban setting. The long-term, short-term or medium-term solution — whatever way you want to put it — is to encourage more people to walk or cycle to school.

Matthew O'Toole (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

I am glad that the Minister is committed to reducing congestion around schools. In my constituency, there is a range of them — Rosetta Primary School; St Bernard's Primary School; Fane Street Primary School; St Bride's Primary School — where this is a real challenge. It is not about just congestion, as you say; it is also about air quality and healthy living.

There is a scheme that operates outside lots of schools across the water called the School Streets Initiative. Is he aware of that, and will he work to roll that out in the North where it is applicable and useful?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

I thank the Member for his question. I am aware of the scheme. It has been raised in the Chamber before, and my officials are looking to see whether we can adopt pilot schemes here to see how successful that could be. We have to take imaginative measures to ensure that children and young people are encouraged to walk and cycle to school, for all the reasons that you outlined. It is important that my Department plays its role and that others play their role in that.

Nick Mathison (Alliance, Strangford)

I also welcome the Minister's commitment to promoting active travel to school. Is he able to confirm how much he will allocate to the active schools travel programme in this financial year?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

I do not have the figures in front of me, but I will certainly share them with the Member.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

For a quick supplementary, I call Pat Sheehan.

Pat Sheehan (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Will the Minister tell us what measures he is considering to encourage active travel and thereby reduce car travel and congestion around schools?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

My officials and I are working on an active travel policy. Under climate legislation, we have to spend 10% of our capital budget on active travel, so there is a legal and moral obligation on us to do that. It is OK for a Minister to stand up in the Chamber and say, "Well, more people should walk and cycle", but we have to provide the proper network of footpaths, which have to be wide enough for cyclists and walkers. We have to provide proper street lighting and crossings etc for young people, who will then feel safe walking back and forth to school. I acknowledge my obligations on this, and I assure the Member that I will plot out an investment strategy that reflects them.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

That ends the period for listed questions. We now move on to 15 minutes of topical questions. I advise Members that question 10 has been withdrawn.

Mark Durkan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

T1. Mr Durkan asked the Minister for Infrastructure whether, pursuant to an answer to an earlier question, he stated, and the Member is fairly sure that he did, that construction work on phase 3 of the Derry to Coleraine scheme will commence in 2026. (AQT 451/22-27)

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

I think that I misspoke at the end. We are procuring the engineering team and the technical team to be in place for 2026. Construction will start in 2027. The Member may have heard me mention this before, but the previously ring-fenced investment funding is now being used to purchase and install the 55,000 sleepers that are required for the project, so there is an active plan in place to deliver the upgrade.

Mark Durkan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

I am glad that I gave the Minister the opportunity to clear that up after he misspoke when answering an earlier question.

The north-west transport hub celebrated the milestone of reaching one million passengers last year. That is brilliant and shows the real appetite for public transport use. That figure has been achieved despite the fact that there is only one train every two hours on a Sunday. Can the Minister intervene to seek timetable changes from Translink in order to facilitate more trains for Derry?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

Yes, I can, and I will. Again, it comes down to decisions that I have to make. At this stage, Translink is dealing with a very difficult budget. This year, I took the opportunity to ring-fence the capital investment that is required, but I will be engaging with Translink on how we move forward with providing the train service that is also needed. Doing that requires a significant, but not impossible, piece of investment over the period in which I hope to be in office. It also requires a lead-in time, because new train drivers and other staff need to be recruited. Some additional train and carriage infrastructure may also be required, but, yes, I am going to work my way towards undertaking that project.

Cathal Boylan (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

T2. Mr Boylan asked the Minister for Infrastructure to provide his assessment of the transport costs that health trusts face. (AQT 452/22-27)

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

All Executive colleagues' Departments are obviously under significant pressure, but I note the recent reports of the transport costs that the Department of Health is facing. I have offered help previously, and I am in the process of writing to the Health Minister again. Community transport is uniquely placed to assist the Department of Health and other Departments with meeting rising transport costs. It will not suit every set of circumstances, as there will always be circumstances in which patients require other forms of transport, but community transport is ideally placed to assist with a significant proportion of the challenges that the Department of Health, the Department for Communities, DAERA and other Departments face to reduce isolation, thus ensuring that people can attend their health appointments etc.

Cathal Boylan (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Minister for his answer. Does he agree that Departments should work together to provide community transport?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

Yes, I do agree. In coming into office, I attempted to arrange meetings with several Ministers. I accept, however, that everybody's diary during the period in which we came into office was busy as a result of dealing with the significant challenges that we all had. A small matter of an election got in the way, but, once we get that out of the road, there is an opportunity for me and other Ministers to sit down and see how we can support one another to provide proper transport for rural and isolated communities.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

Alex Easton is not in his place.

Nicola Brogan (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

T4. Miss Brogan asked the Minister for Infrastructure, given that he will be aware that the Member and Sinn Féin colleagues in West Tyrone have long been campaigning for this and are eager to see it happen, for an update on the upgrade of the A5, on which far too many lives have been lost, resulting in far too many families and communities having been left devastated. (AQT 454/22-27)

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

I can confirm that, at this morning's Executive meeting, I briefed Executive colleagues that, in the coming days, I will be issuing them with my initial response to the Planning Appeals Commission's report. I will also be making a recommendation that we proceed with the A5 upgrade. I am conscious that it is a cross-cutting issue, so I will issue the papers to my Executive colleagues, await their feedback and then submit a further paper in mid-August for their approval to move ahead with the A5 project.

Nicola Brogan (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

I thank the Minister for that answer. That news will be really welcome to people right across West Tyrone and everyone who uses the A5. As I say, we have been waiting patiently for progress on it. I thank the Minister for the work that he has done and the commitment that he has made to deliver the A5 upgrade. What is the Minister's assessment of the impact that the upgrade can have on road safety?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

I have carefully considered the 30 recommendations in the Planning Appeals Commission's report. I am also acutely aware of the road safety aspects. I believe that, if my recommendation to approve it is endorsed by the Executive, we will not only be providing a state-of-the-art road and correcting regional imbalance but saving lives.

Gerry Kelly (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

T5. Mr Kelly asked the Minister for Infrastructure how he intends to play his part to reach the renewable energy target of 80% by 2030. (AQT 455/22-27)

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

As Minister, I am committed to making a positive contribution, and I recognise that our planning system has an important supporting role to play. I want to ensure that the planning system operates efficiently and effectively within an appropriate legislative policy framework. Last year's changes to planning legislation expanded permitted development rights for the installation of microgeneration equipment, such as heat pumps. Later this year, I expect to publish revised regional planning policy for renewable and low-carbon energy to inform plan-making and decision-making within the wider context of energy and climate change.

Gerry Kelly (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as an fhreagra sin.

[Translation: I thank the Minister for that answer.]

Does the Minister agree that improvements to the planning system can assist that?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

Yes. Where we have an evidence base to show that we need to change and keep up to date with the ever-changing economy out there and how we support each other, I will make, and my Department has previously made, policy changes to do that, but, as the Member will understand, I want to move forward on an evidence-based format in order to ensure that, when we make changes, they are to the betterment of the system.

Pádraig Delargy (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

T6. Mr Delargy asked the Minister for Infrastructure for an update on the A2 Buncrana Road. (AQT 456/22-27)

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

The Member will be aware that the A2 Buncrana Road works were suspended as a result of a decision that was made during the time when the Executive and Assembly were down. The Buncrana Road is now part of the discussions around a transport strategy and will move forward as part of that overall policy.

Pádraig Delargy (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

It is very welcome to hear that, Minister. It is very welcome for the people of Derry and, actually, for the people of Donegal, who use that road daily. What engagement has the Department had with schools and local businesses around that?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

Part of the development of the north-west transport plan will involve discussions with relevant stakeholders. Businesses, schools and the local community are key to that. There will be ongoing discussions with those stakeholders.

Trevor Clarke (DUP, South Antrim)

T7. Mr Clarke asked the Minister for Infrastructure, having heard him refer to the A5 and A2 schemes, to outline the average time that it takes to complete such a scheme from start to finish, and the time that it can take to pay out compensation to the landowners who are affected by them. (AQT 457/22-27)

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

The A5 scheme has, I think, been on the cards for 17 years. It is far too long from announcement to delivery. That delay can be for various reasons. It can involve procurement, design, challenges to procurement or design, legal challenges, public inquiries, and, quite rightly, having to deal with landowners who seek compensation for our taking their land. There are so many different moving parts in a major scheme that it can cause delay. The Executive and Departments need to sit down together and engage on how we can speed those things up, because the inflationary pressure alone on costs is frightening, never mind anything else. We have to look at all the policies and frameworks that we have to deal with to ensure that they are effective, efficient and necessary. The key objective is that we deliver for the public good.

Trevor Clarke (DUP, South Antrim)

I thank the Minister for his answer. Minister, you will be aware that I wrote to you recently with regard to the A6 scheme. One farmer has now waited almost eight years for his compensation payout, much of that due to the Department's bureaucracy and officials coming out to do survey after survey. At what stage will you intervene in some of those cases to prevent all those surveys being carried out and unnecessary pressures being applied to farmers who have been waiting on compensation for so long?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

I tend not to intervene in individual cases. It would be wrong for me to do so, unless there were exceptional circumstances. There are well-tested and proven policies, procedures and legal tests in place to ensure that the Minister can keep his nose out of such situations, to be honest. If there are exceptional circumstances and I am comfortable that I am not overreaching my powers, I will look at a case, but it would be the exception.

Danny Baker (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

T8. Mr Baker asked the Minister for Infrastructure to outline the timescale of the feasibility study into reopening the Antrim to Lisburn railway line. (AQT 458/22-27)

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

I can confirm that Translink received funding directly through the Union connectivity fund to undertake a feasibility study regarding the reopening of the railway line between Lisburn and Antrim. The feasibility study is ongoing and will include demand forecasting for additional rail passengers and route and operating models; a benefit-and-cost plan; and a delivery strategy, including on the potential connection to Belfast International Airport, as Mr Blair mentioned earlier. The study is due to be completed later this year.

Danny Baker (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Go raibh maith agat

[Translation: Thank you]

for your answer, Minister. Does the Minister agree that enhancing rail connectivity across the island is the future?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

First, I should clarify that the study is due to be completed early next year.

Yes, without a doubt, we have to correct the mistakes that were made 60 years ago. As I said earlier, I intend to leave in place plans that will go a long way in ensuring that the Department for Infrastructure is focused on the future delivery of improved rail connection for urban and rural communities.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

Since Mr Carroll is not in his place, the Assembly will take its ease until 2.45 pm. The next item of business will be questions to the Minister of Health.

Oral Answers to Questions — Health

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

Questions 2 and 7 have been withdrawn.

Danny Baker (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

1. Mr Baker asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware of differences in payment rates and managed budgets for clients of self-directed support across health and social care trusts. (AQO 694/22-27)

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

Mr Deputy Speaker, before I answer the question, I want, with your indulgence, to acknowledge that I came across a social media post from Mr Baker last night that marked the second anniversary of the sad passing of his baby nephew Enda, who succumbed to a genetic disease called Edwards' syndrome. I believe that that was not the first time for the family. I just want to acknowledge that and reach out. As I often say, health is personal.

In answer to Mr Baker's question, my Department has always supported and continues to support the promotion of self-directed support, as it allows an individual to have as much choice and control as they wish over their personal budget, which has been identified and allocated to them by their local trust to meet their assessed needs. On 1 April 2024, my Department announced an uplift of the regional hourly rate for direct payments by 9·8% to £16·88 per hour from the previous £15·37. It is a set regional rate per hour, and therefore that is the rate that all trusts give to an individual in receipt of a direct payment.

I am aware that there can be a disparity in the rates paid to personal assistants. However, the rate of pay is ultimately a private arrangement between the service user and the personal assistant whom they employ, and, on that basis, the rate of payment to the personal assistant is negotiable. The service user, as the employer, is responsible for meeting all the administrative costs associated with being a recipient of a direct payment, such as National Insurance contributions, pension contributions, sick pay, annual leave, redundancy and so on, all from within the direct payment amount that has been allocated to them. Over and above that, my Department endorses the need for personal assistants to receive a rate of pay that is, as a minimum, reflective of the national living wage, which is £11·44 per hour.

Danny Baker (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Go raibh maith agat, Minister. Thank you for the kind words.

How does the Minister plan to ensure that organisations such as Kids Together are able to continue and provide an invaluable service where managed budgets are paid at the same rate as self-directed support?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for his supplementary. One of the points is that a direct payment is not intended to replace existing support offered by family members; rather, it is to supplement care. There is a range of people who provide that care, and it is important that all of them get a fair crack, as it were, at providing support. I will work with officials and ask them to look closely at ensuring that there is a fair and equitable spread of those who provide that care.

When I think about this, I always remember my time as a victims' commissioner and the move that was made from the Northern Ireland Memorial Fund to the Victims and Survivors Service (VSS). The point about that is that the move was to truly personalise the service. The memorial fund used to offer back-to-school or short break programmes, so, if you wanted money for school uniforms for your children or grandchildren, that was all well and good and, if you wanted a short break, all the better. However, if you did not want something that came under a scheme, the memorial fund simply could not help you. The move to the Victims and Survivors Service was designed to treat every client individually: "What is it that will improve your life? What are the barriers to your being content and prosperous? How can we come in and try to remove those barriers?". It is the same with these payments. Who delivers the service should be those who, the recipient who is commissioning the service feels, are best placed to help them in their life.

Danny Donnelly (Alliance, East Antrim)

Will the Minister meet the Centre for Independent Living to discuss its priorities around self-directed support?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

Yes, I am more than happy to meet anybody who has ideas about how we can best deliver those services. Absolutely.

Tom Elliott (UUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I understand and recall that a support package in the region of £70 million was announced earlier this year. Will the Minister provide us with information or an update on how much of that was for self-directed payments?