Northern Ireland Assembly, 6 December 2021

305 contributions from 56 members. The official report.

Assembly Business

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Before I introduce Members' Statements, I remind Members that, on Friday, we had, we understand, the first-ever Disabled People's Parliament not only in these islands but far beyond. In fact, there is no record of any of the other parliamentary institutions having held a disabled persons' parliament. I commend all who were involved, particularly our senior officials, in working with the disabled people and their representative organisations to make sure that Friday was a very successful day for the people involved. I thank our officials, who worked with empathy and professionalism to deliver the event. Certainly, the feedback that we have received from those who attended and spoke, and from their representatives, is that they were all very pleased with how it went and look forward to an outcome further down the line from the Assembly and the Executive. I put on record my thanks to all those involved.

Members' Statements

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

If Members wish to be called to make a statement, they should indicate that by continually rising in their place. Members who are called will have up to three minutes in which to make their statement. Members are reminded that statements will not be subject to debate or questioning and that interventions will not be permitted. I will not take points of order on this or any other matter until the item of business has finished.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I want to speak on behalf of a number of constituents who have contacted me about the lack of data collected on secondary breast cancer. I thank them and acknowledge their commitment and drive to ensure that conditions and much-needed support are better for those with secondary breast cancer, the majority of whom are women, now and in the future.

In England and Wales, it was recently announced that a metastatic breast cancer audit will be funded to collate information on the number of people living with secondary breast cancer. In recent communications with the Minister of Health, he indicated that he had no specific plan for an audit and that data collection, coordination and application are being addressed as a central focus of the draft 10-year cancer strategy.

That is very disappointing news for patients across the North and, indeed, the island who are experiencing metastatic breast cancer. They feel that they have often been excluded. They may now face delays in accessing any treatment or specialist assistance that they will need.

According to Macmillan, secondary breast cancer diagnosis is always at stage 4, which can be treated but is incurable. The Breast Cancer Now consultation reveals that those living with secondary cancers suffer from extreme anxiety and uncertainty. We owe all cancer patients across the North optimal care.

We do not have a breast cancer audit for metastatic breast cancer, and we need to be able to access reliable data. Without an audit, it is more difficult to design and plan for services in an informed way, and, if one is achieved, it will allow us to provide patients with the support that they need. I ask the Minister to reconsider his position so that we can tailor our cancer services and treatment to all patients facing this health crisis and give them the hope that they so rightly deserve.

Pam Cameron (DUP, South Antrim)

I will highlight an issue of great concern that will affect the vast majority of pharmacies and hundreds if not thousands of people should resolution not be found.

According to Community Pharmacy NI, around 37,000 patients in Northern Ireland currently receive the service of weekly medicine dose trays and other similar adherence devices. Those trays, which are sorted by pharmacy staff every week, help many vulnerable and elderly patients to manage their daily medication correctly.

Owing to an increasing workload, not least because of vaccinations but also because of mounting financial and staffing pressures on the sector, a large majority of pharmacy owners recently voted no longer to provide the monitored dosage system and similar compliance aids to new patients beyond 1 December 2021.

The service has been underfunded and overstretched to the point that many new patients may be unable to access it until a settlement can be found with the Department. I will point out that a new patient is not just a new patient in the true sense of the word but a patient who may be in hospital and then discharged with a new prescription.

Last week, Gerard Greene, the chief executive of Community Pharmacy NI said:

"As part of this service, we have been assisting patients, often those who are elderly, to safely manage their medicines at home and in the community, reducing the need for patients to be transferred to other settings such as hospitals. It is worrying that by not commissioning this service, there could be additional and avoidable hospital pressures."

Our community pharmacy sector and patients who rely on those services deserve to have them properly commissioned and appropriately funded by the Department of Health. We cannot allow the situation to drag on without resolution. New patients, particularly many vulnerable individuals coming on to the system, will require support to better manage their medicines at home and in the community.

Our community pharmacies have never been busier, remaining open to the public throughout the pandemic and now on the front line administering thousands of COVID-19 vaccinations. We cannot thank those pharmacists and their assisting staff enough for their work over the past 20 months. Their service deserves much greater public recognition. We will always be extremely grateful for that face-to-face support, care and advice that we receive through their services. Recently, I visited the fantastic team at Randalstown Pharmacies as part of Ask Your Pharmacist Week and saw at first hand the patient-, family- and community-focused services that it provides.

To conclude, I welcome the recent ongoing engagement with the Department of Health and the community pharmacy sector to resolve the matter. I urge the Health Minister to ensure that that ongoing engagement with the community pharmacy sector is expedited and that fair arrangement is made to secure the service's long-term sustainability. Any settlement must recognise the financial and time-consuming burden on staff. We must maintain that invaluable service.

Daniel McCrossan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, West Tyrone)

I raise the heartbreaking story of the death of young Arthur Labinjo-Hughes. It is a case that has gripped the nation, caused severe heartbreak and resulted in immediate calls for action from authorities across these islands.

When I listened to the news report, I was disturbed to hear that child's cries for food — "Pease, someone, feed me. No one is going to feed me" — and that he thought that no one loved him. The abuse that that child suffered at the hands of his father and his partner was beyond words; absolutely brutal. The six-year-old was tortured and killed. Arthur died of a head injury on 17 June 2020. Emma Tustin, who was his father's partner, shook him and banged his head on a hard surface after poisoning him with salt. I have never seen anything quite like the details of that case. I spent Saturday with two of my nephews, one aged 4 and the other aged 6. I looked at them and thought, "How on earth could anyone harm such an innocent, helpless child?". He was one of the most vulnerable in society. His daddy was supposed to take care of him but he left him to suffer incredibly horrific abuse.

Arthur was found to have 130 injuries after being routinely beaten, forced to stand for hours on his own, starved and dehydrated. Concerns were raised by his paternal grandmother to social services. There were found to be no safeguarding concerns at that point, even though his body was beaten, battered and bruised.

As I stand here, I wonder how many other children there are who have dropped below the radar and we do not know about? How many children in Northern Ireland are in homes where they suffer such horrendous abuse? In the House, we disagree on many things politically, but I know that we stand united in full support of that poor child and his wider family and that we offer them our thoughts and prayers. As legislators, we have the privileged position of being able to change legislation to help and protect people, and save people's lives. I would hope that the House would unite to ensure that we, too, review the safeguarding mechanisms that are in place, respond to the call for greater funding to ensure that there are mechanisms in place, and ensure that no child ever suffers as that poor child did last year.

Some Members

Hear, hear.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I thank the Member for that.

Ciara Ferguson (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

Today marks the beginning of Homelessness Awareness Week, a day for all in Irish society to recommit our efforts to collaborate and work together with housing and homelessness organisations and charities, Departments and local councils to make housing delivery a priority and, subsequently, end homelessness for good. This year, the theme of the week is Start the Conversation. A host of organisations across the homeless sector, such as the Simon Community, Extern and the Welcome Organisation, will deliver a range of social, educational and awareness-raising events throughout our constituencies and encourage conversation in the workplace, schools and communities.

Four individuals kindly came together to the all-party group on homelessness in November. From listening to the voices of those who are affected by homelessness, it is clear that the line between having a home and not can change quite quickly for a person or family and that the paths in and out of homelessness are never straightforward. The personal stories were all unique, but, collectively, they highlighted the negative impact that homelessness can have on your physical and mental health, family relationships, educational opportunities and life chances. We must all act to improve outcomes for people who are experiencing homelessness in each of our communities. We must all work together to ensure that everyone has a home. That is a universal human right; a safe, permanent and affordable place to live, where one can settle down, feel part of their community and build a good life.

The homeless sector continues to play a vital role in society. Its incredible work and commitment has been particularly evident during the ongoing pandemic as it worked daily to protect homeless individuals, who are among the most vulnerable groups that are impacted by COVID-19. I am also immensely grateful to statutory partners, who, along with Minister Deirdre Hargey, have fully funded the homelessness reset plan and offered all people who were sleeping rough on the streets forms of emergency accommodation. I very much welcome the collaboration that was shown to work during the pandemic. That is a model of good practice going forward. It prioritises the voices of those with lived experience of homelessness and focuses on protecting high-risk groups. They have all shown throughout the pandemic what can be done with the collective will.

However, we know that it is a first step. We must not drive homeless people into the places that we find suitable but help them to find the places that they find suitable.

Later today, at the Homeless Connect event, schoolchildren will speak to us about their views on homelessness. It undoubtedly takes a society to combat homelessness, but, together with a shared political will and commitment, it can be done. It must be done to ensure everyone in the North has a place to call home.

Jonathan Buckley (DUP, Upper Bann)

I rise to continue with Mr McCrossan's points. While COVID demonstrated the very best of society, equally, what I and other Members have seen in the media in the past few weeks has demonstrated the sheer evil that exists in many parts of society today. First, there is the harrowing case of child abuse that Mr McCrossan mentioned: Arthur Labinjo-Hughes, a six-year-old who was mentally abused and then physically abused. It is absolutely harrowing for anyone to listen to.

As politicians and, indeed, as a society, we should, first and foremost, protect our children, but the cases that we have seen on the news sadly show that there is severe mistrust of the parental relationship with a child in society. I listened to the story of young Tony Hudgell, who was attacked when he was a baby. His fingers and toes were broken and the ligaments in his legs were torn. He is now wheelchair-bound because of the abuse he sustained in his household.

That leads me to the harrowing information that I heard at the Policing Board last Thursday. The National Crime Agency (NCA) director general was there and, for the first time, he revealed the numbers involved in sexual abuse in Northern Ireland. That was harrowing. The fact that very few media outlets reported it caused me a great deal of concern. He stated that there may be up to 23,000 individuals who are deemed as a sexual risk to children living in Northern Ireland. Members, I am sure that we can all agree that that figure is deeply disturbing.

The Chief Constable noted that the figure is equivalent to a small town of people. It is absolutely disgusting; it is harrowing, but yet there has been no condemnation or push for action from many elements of our society. The director general of the NCA said that in most cases, children are more at harm in their own homes and beds than they are on the street. How harrowing. Yet there is widespread silence on this issue. I found it particularly distressing when the director general of the NCA said that children as young as toddlers were being sexually abused in their homes by adults up to the age of 70-plus. Members, we have to do more. Collectively, we must attack this atrocity and protect our young people by placing them at the heart of any legislative programme going forward. We owe it to them. Too many are suffering in silence, and we must be their voice.

Mark Durkan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

As we have already heard, this is Homelessness Awareness week. This year's theme is Start the Conversation, so it is appropriate to have the conversation here today to remind us of our duty as MLAs and the work that we have to do to eradicate homelessness.

Homelessness is an issue that can hit anyone anywhere. The average person is just two pay cheques away from homelessness. Many people walk a very fine line and live from payday to payday, and that tightrope has become even more precarious due to the pandemic. It was also during the pandemic that the importance of having somewhere to call home was never more pronounced. Access to a safe and secure home is the foundation that people build their lives on. Nobody should have to sleep on the street, call a hostel room their home or have their family scattered across several locations while they languish on a list.

The impact of homelessness is not only damaging people now; it is risking their future opportunities. We cannot accept that as normal, but it is. This year, from July to September, over 4,000 households presented as homeless, and nearly 2,500 of those were deemed to be in priority need. However, homes were only sourced for 122 of those applicants. That leaves over 2,000 families or households in priority need being failed, not just by a lack of stock but a lack of strategy and ambition. We must never lose sight of the human stories behind these statistics. Families are rendered homeless for myriad reasons, such as overcrowding, affordability, family breakdown, disability or poverty. We cannot tolerate a system or a society that fails people so badly.

The Department for Communities acted swiftly and decisively to ensure that no one slept on our streets during the pandemic, and it deserves huge credit for that, as do the tremendous organisations across the North — Ms Ferguson mentioned a few — that are dedicated to tackling homelessness. However, there is more to doing that than simply putting a roof over someone's head. Supporting People projects should be funded more to help to address the deeper-rooted issues that cause chronic homelessness. We have heard plenty about the Minister's radical housing transformation plans, but, sadly, we have not seen much of it in effect yet. The thousands of families on waiting lists do not have time to wait. We call on the Minister to act now.

Linda Dillon (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

An issue that is causing serious problems in my constituency is DFI Roads' response to the planners. It is causing serious delays with the planning of individual homes and businesses. A particular case in my constituency, where there will be a massive investment by the council and a new school build, has been put at severe risk because of DFI Roads' failure to respond. I understand that that is due to a lack of human resource to respond to a number of planning applications.

Today, I call on the Minister to look at what resource is available and at future resource planning. This is not an issue within the Planning Service or the council. It is down to the failure of DFI Roads to respond to planning issues. It is impacting on people who are building their homes. We have just heard about the importance of a home and people being able to stay in their rural communities. It is also important for us to develop businesses in a very rural constituency — a constituency that needs all the economic investment that it can get and, most importantly, a new school build for our children. Other Members have talked today about the importance of our children and young people. It is important that they have a proper educational setting as a starting point. I call on the Minister, if she is listening today, to please look at what resource is available. I am not sure whether it is a wider issue across the North. I have not heard about it in other constituencies, but it is an issue in my constituency.

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

We are about to embark on a vaccine passport scheme. All Members will recall that the House was told, certainly publicly if not necessarily on the Floor, that there would be a debate and a vote before the introduction of such a scheme. I checked the business diary for this week and saw no schedule for a debate and a vote on the introduction of such a scheme. I understand the nature of things moving quickly and the Executive having to react to events. Throughout the pandemic, we have become accustomed to granting retrospective approval for measures introduced by the Executive. The measures kick in, and the House votes to approve them afterwards. Given the nature of the scheme being proposed, that is not appropriate. In fact, it is really important that we, as Members, are afforded the opportunity to see evidence that such a scheme will work in combating the threat of the virus. It is really important that these issues are argued and debated on the Floor of the House.

The Northern Ireland Executive are comprised of Members of the House. There are more Members of the House than there are members of the Executive. It is our job to question, debate and argue issues out. Given the fundamentally different nature of the proposal from that which went before it to combat the threat of COVID-19, which we all recognise and want to see tackled, it is essential that we, the Members of the Assembly, whether we are for the idea or against it, are allowed the opportunity to debate it and thrash out the arguments on the Floor of the House. The Minister of Health has a very difficult job and faces a very difficult time over the coming months, but our job is not only to support the Minister when he is right but to question, debate and tease out the evidence. That is why I am very disappointed to see no reference in the business diary to such a debate taking place; it absolutely should take place.

Sinéad Bradley (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

I rise to bring forward an issue that exists across all constituencies. Loneliness was an issue prior to COVID but, unfortunately, has been exacerbated by it. I thank those Members who have joined me on the all-party group (APG) on preventing loneliness, because it is a silent pandemic that is running through our community.

I admit that, on embarking upon my role as the Chair of the APG on preventing loneliness, I had a very swift education on who are most affected. I was guilty, as many are, of taking the default position that elderly people are the most affected, particularly around this time of year and the Christmas season when we are around family. I have learned that that is not the case, and plentiful evidence supports that.

Without a doubt, loneliness really impacts on a person's quality of life. It can arise during any dramatic time in your life when there is a change in your circumstances. It may even be a positive thing, such as the move into married life: when people are moved from their community or routine, they can experience loneliness. It may be after having a baby or moving house, and it can affect children who have recently moved schools. There are lots of pinpoints across a lifetime when loneliness can be, and is, experienced by many.

I am conscious that a lot of legislation is going through the House. I therefore ask all Members, regardless of the field of work or specialism with which they are charged in the House, to take moment and think about any proposals or policy changes that they have in front of them to see whether there is an opportunity to try to work to prevent loneliness. Also, be very mindful about proposing anything that may have the unintended consequence of exacerbating loneliness in society.

I thank those who have carried out significant work in this area, including the Commissioner for Older People and the Commissioner for Children and Young People, who have taken on a lead role. I also thank all members of the all-party group on preventing loneliness and give a particular personal mention to the Red Cross and Age NI, which have helped me.

Finally, I ask Members to be aware that the Christmas season is approaching, throughout which lots of people will, no doubt, feel lonely. I therefore ask all Members to make aware of that all those community groups that can and will help.

Assembly Business

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Mr Jim Allister has sought leave to present a public petition in accordance with Standing Order 22. The Member will have up to three minutes in which to speak.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

This petition, signed by 3,768 people, represents families across Northern Ireland who have grave grievances over the manner of their treatment by some, but, I stress, not all caravan park owners.

Among the grievances is the fact that they have no security of tenure on a caravan park. They get a licence from one year to the next, and, then, at the end of that year, they are vulnerable, as has happened this year in one park, to exorbitant demands for increases in pitch fees — in one case, a 35% increase, which is unconscionable and unacceptable. The first thing that caravan owners require on their sites is security of tenure. That is absolutely vital.

There has also been the introduction of new rules without consultation with caravan holders, putting an arbitrary limit on the age of a caravan that can be sustained on a site, along with coercive pressure to purchase new caravans from the park owners and limitations on who else you can purchase from. Then, there have been attempts to monopolise the ancillary services — again, sometimes, at extortionate rates. For example, many people who want to place decking by their caravan have been told that they can have that done only by the staff and the contractors of the park owners, and therefore extortionate prices can be charged.

One of the things that go to the very heart of the inequity is a refusal by some caravan park owners to recognise and coordinate with owners' associations. We are at the point where the Caravans Act (Northern Ireland) 2011 is to be reviewed. This is a timely occasion for the caravan petitioners to make the case that the 2011 Act needs to have root-and-branch change, in order to give them security of tenure and protection against extortionate treatment and to ensure that they have a situation that is tenable and fair. That is why the petition is entitled 'Fairness for Caravan Owners'.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I thank the Member. He knows that, normally, I would invite him to bring his petition to the Table and present it here. However, in light of social distancing, I ask him to remain in his place and to make arrangements to submit the petition to my office electronically. I thank the Member for bringing the petition to the attention of the Assembly. Once it is received, I will forward it to the Minister for Communities and send a copy to the Committee for Communities.

Could Members take their ease for a moment or two, please?

(Mr Deputy Speaker [Mr McGlone] in the Chair)

Executive Committee Business

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

The Minister of Justice, Mrs Naomi Long, has indicated that she wishes to move the Further Consideration Stage remotely.

Moved. — [Mrs Long (The Minister of Justice).]

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

Thank you, Minister. As no amendments have been tabled, there is no opportunity to discuss the Bill today. Members will, of course, be able to have a full debate at Final Stage. The Further Consideration Stage of the Criminal Justice (Committal Reform) Bill is therefore concluded, and the Bill stands referred to the Speaker.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

The next items of business are motions to approve three statutory rules, all of which relate to nicotine and tobacco. There will be a single debate on all three motions. I will call on the Minister of Health to move the first motion. The Minister will commence the debate on the motions as listed in the Order Paper. When all who wish to speak have done so, I will put the Question on the first motion. The second motion will then be read into the record, and I will call the Minister to move it. The Question will then be put on that motion, and that process will be repeated for the third motion. If that is clear, we will proceed.

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

I beg to move

That the draft Smoke-Free (Private Vehicles) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2021 be approved.

The following motions stood in the Order Paper:

That the draft Nicotine Inhaling Products (Age of Sale and Proxy Purchasing) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2021 be approved. — [Mr Swann (The Minister of Health).]

That the draft Tobacco Retailer (Fixed Penalty) (Amount) (Amendment) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2021 be approved. — [Mr Swann (The Minister of Health).]

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

Thank you, Minister. The Business Committee has agreed that there should be no time limit on the debate.

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker. I seek the Assembly's approval for the three sets of regulations, which seek to protect children from nicotine addiction and the harms of second-hand smoke.

The Smoke-Free (Private Vehicles) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2021 will ban smoking in enclosed private vehicles where a child under the age of 18 is present. Protecting the population from exposure to second-hand tobacco smoke is a key objective in the Department's tobacco control strategy. Second-hand smoke is a combination of mainstream smoke exhaled by smokers and side-stream smoke, which is given off by the burning end of a cigarette or cigar or by a pipe. The long-term effects of regular exposure to second-hand smoke include a higher risk of lung cancer, coronary heart disease, chronic respiratory symptoms and asthma. Children are particularly vulnerable to the effects of second-hand smoke as they breathe more rapidly and inhale more pollutants per pound of body weight than adults. In 2010, a report by the Royal College of Physicians (RCP) affirmed that children exposed to second-hand smoke had an increased risk of asthma, lower respiratory tract infections, bronchitis, middle ear disease, bacterial meningitis and sudden infant death syndrome as well as general reduced respiratory function. It is also important to remember that children are likely to have less control than adults over how they travel and whom they travel with.

The Smoking (Northern Ireland) Order 2006 provides the legislative framework for existing smoke-free public places and workplaces. From its date of commencement in April 2007, it has been an offence to smoke in all indoor public places and workplaces. Smoking in shared work vehicles, including all forms of public transport, is also banned under the Order. The Smoking (Northern Ireland) Order 2006 contains two offences, which have been enforced, in relation to public and work vehicles, and they came into effect in 2007. They are smoking in a smoke-free vehicle and failing to prevent smoking in a smoke-free vehicle. The draft regulations will have the effect of extending those offences to include a private vehicle when a person under the age of 18 is present.

The draft Smoke-Free (Private Vehicles) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2021 provide that a vehicle is smoke-free if it is enclosed, there is more than one person present and there is a person under the age of 18 in the vehicle. In Northern Ireland, the enforcement of tobacco control legislation is the sole responsibility of district councils. That includes the enforcement of the legislation on smoke-free work vehicles. However, the regulations propose that a dual enforcement approach between district councils and the Police Service of Northern Ireland is adopted in relation to all smoke-free vehicles. Under existing powers, PSNI officers are able to request that a vehicle stop if they suspect that an offence is being committed, which would facilitate the enforcement of the legislation. While those powers are not available to district council officers, they will be able to take action if they observe an offence in a parked vehicle or if they are able to obtain licence details from the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA).

Decisions about whether to issue warnings or fixed penalty notices or to refer an alleged offence straight to the court to be dealt with will be at the discretion of the enforcement agency. It is proposed that the penalty for both offences — smoking in a private smoke-free vehicle and failing to prevent smoking in a private smoke-free vehicle — will be £50. That mirrors the existing penalty for smoking in a smoke-free public place, a workplace or a vehicle. On conviction for the offence of smoking in a smoke-free private vehicle, a court can award a fine up to a maximum level 3 on the standard scale, which is £1,000. For failure to prevent smoking in a smoke-free private vehicle, a court can award a fine of a maximum level 4 on the standard scale, which is £2,500.

A summary of the consultation on the proposals was published in July 2018. Respondents were largely in favour of the proposed ban. Only three respondents did not support the proposed measures: all three were from the tobacco industry.

At its meeting on 7 October 2021, the Health Committee agreed that it was content for my Department to make the proposed regulations, and draft regulations were subsequently approved by the Committee on 25 November. I thank the Committee for its work on that. It is with the Committee's support and Executive agreement that I bring the draft regulations before you today. Subject to Assembly approval, a period of publicity and awareness raising will take place, and the regulations will become effective from 1 February 2022.

I also seek the Assembly's approval for the Nicotine Inhaling Products (Age of Sale and Proxy Purchasing) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2021 and the Tobacco Retailer (Fixed Penalty) (Amount) (Amendment) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2021, which together will introduce a minimum age of sale of 18 years for nicotine-inhaling products, commonly known as "electronic cigarettes" or "vapes", and certain related parts of such devices to protect children from the risk and associated harms of nicotine addiction. Furthermore, the regulation makes it an offence for an adult to purchase or attempt to purchase a nicotine-inhaling product on behalf of a child. The provisions mirror existing arrangements to prevent the sale of tobacco products to and their use by young people under the age of 18.

The Tobacco Retailer (Fixed Penalty) (Amount) (Amendment) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2021 will replace the schedule to the Tobacco Retailer (Fixed Penalty) (Amount) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2016, and that will allow for the inclusion of the amounts of fixed penalties for offences relating to the sale of proxy purchases of nicotine-containing products.

Since the introduction of smoke-free legislation in Northern Ireland in April 2007, the market for nicotine-inhaling products has grown exponentially. The most common form of nicotine-inhaling products are e-cigarettes. Those products are completely tobacco-free and are made up of nicotine-based liquid that is then vaporised and inhaled. Nicotine is a highly addictive substance, and there are no legal restrictions on the sale of those products to children in Northern Ireland. While research has shown nicotine-inhaling products to be considerably less harmful than tobacco, the long-term effects of e-cigarette use are largely unknown. A 2014 report by the World Health Organization expressed particular concern about the potential for adolescent nicotine exposure to have long-term consequences for brain development. The report goes on to say that e-cigarette use "poses serious threats to adolescents" and recommends that retailers should be prohibited from selling e-cigarettes to minors. Furthermore, while some evidence suggests that e-cigarette use among children is largely restricted to those who have already experimented with tobacco, my Department is keen to ensure that it does not act as a gateway into smoking. The evidence of a potential gateway effect is mixed, but I believe that it is right to be cautious. The Department has made considerable inroads into reducing smoking prevalence among 11-to-16-year-olds from 9% in 2007 to 4% in 2016 and 2019 and does not wish to see that trend reversed as a result of young people having easy access to e-cigarette products.

In summary, the regulations make it an offence to sell nicotine-inhaling products, commonly known as "electronic cigarettes" or "vapes", and certain related parts of such devices to under-18s and for an adult to purchase or attempt to purchase a nicotine-inhaling product on behalf of a child.

An exception is made for products that are licensed by the UK-wide Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA). Those products will be made available to children only on prescription or if the product's medicine marketing authorisations provide that it is licensed for use by under-18s. At present, however, no such products are licensed.

The new legislation will be enforced by the environmental health staff of the district councils. It is not anticipated that further funding will be required beyond that which is already provided through the Public Health Agency (PHA) in Northern Ireland for the enforcement of tobacco control legislation. Enforcement authorities will have the option of issuing fixed penalty notices for either offence in relation to the sale of nicotine-inhaling products. It is proposed that the penalty amount for both offences — selling nicotine-inhaling products to a person under the age of 18 and the offence of proxy purchasing — will be £250. That mirrors existing penalties for tobacco sales offences. A retailer convicted of selling a nicotine-inhaling product to a person under the age of 18 or an adult convicted of a proxy purchasing offence will be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale, which is currently up to £5,000. That level of fine is consistent with the corresponding tobacco age of sale offence.

In addition, restricted sales orders and restricted premises orders, which came into force in Northern Ireland in 2016, will be extended to include offences in relation to underage sales of nicotine-inhaling products. Such an order, if granted by the court, can prohibit a named individual or named premises from selling both tobacco and nicotine-inhaling products for up to three years.

While the Department consulted on the provisions relating to nicotine products in the draft Health (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill in the autumn of 2014, I gave a commitment that a further consultation would be carried out on the draft regulations that would also provide the public with an opportunity to comment on a draft regulatory impact assessment. That additional consultation ran from 4 September to 27 October 2017, and a total of 28 responses were received from a variety of stakeholders, including local government, the voluntary and community sector, professional bodies and tobacco and e-cigarette manufacturers. The majority of respondents supported the policy aim of restricting the sale of nicotine-inhaling products to persons over the age of 18 and agreed with the proposals as set out in the draft regulations. That support came from across the board and included representation from all sectors. The vast majority of respondents agreed that an offence of proxy purchasing e-cigarettes should be created, bringing those products into line with other age-restricted products such as tobacco and alcohol. Furthermore, the Health Committee, at its meeting on 7 October 2021, agreed that it was content for my Department to make the proposed regulations, and draft regulations were subsequently approved by the Committee on 25 November.

It is with the Committee's support and Executive agreement that I bring the draft regulations before the House today. The regulations are subject to affirmative resolution. After they have been made, a period of awareness raising with retailers and the public will follow, and the regulations will become effective from 1 February 2022. This package of regulatory changes aims to protect the most vulnerable, and I commend the motions to the House.

Colm Gildernew (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I will make some brief remarks as Chair. I will then make some additional, even briefer remarks as the party's health spokesman.

The Committee was briefed on this set of rules when it received the SL1s on 7 October. Officials outlined the purpose of the rules and answered questions from members. Committee members sought clarification of a number of issues.

Members raised the issue of the time that it has taken to introduce the regulations, given that they were first discussed in 2014 and the primary legislation was passed in 2016. Officials advised that a consultation took place between January and March 2017, during which time the Assembly went down. Further delays were caused by the pandemic and the involvement of officials in Brexit preparations. Therefore, the regulations could not be progressed until now.

The main focus of the discussions on smoke-free vehicles was enforcement and the fact that the PSNI and councils would be classed as enforcement agencies in the regulations. Officials advised that the key difference between the enforcement powers of the PSNI and the councils is that the PSNI has the power to stop vehicles. Members also sought clarity on who is liable for smoking in cars. We were advised that the driver of the car is always responsible for the offence of failing to prevent smoking in a smoke-free vehicle and that it would be an additional offence where the person smoking is also liable.

There was a discussion about the number of children who would benefit from the rules being in place. Officials advised that, following implementation in England, there was a 72% reduction in self-reported exposure to second-hand smoke. Officials indicated that compliance with the regulations could decrease the number of children exposed to smoking by 20%.

There was a further discussion about the possibility of extending the ban to include the use of e-cigarettes in vehicles. The Committee was advised that there was no power in primary legislation to allow the Department to do that. In follow-up correspondence, the Department advised that it would look at further evidence on the issue in the coming years, when further research had been completed. The Committee also sought some clarification on the rules applying to motorhomes and caravans when they are not stationary.

Members raised the issue of e-cigarettes and vaping being a gateway to tobacco products for younger people. There was a discussion about the information being gathered on young people's usage of e-cigarettes. Officials advised that the most recent young persons' behaviour and attitudes survey, from 2019, showed that 3% of under-16s, some of whom were as young as 11 years old, said that they used e-cigarettes regularly. That is a worrying trend, and I hope that the rules, along with education in schools, will better inform young people of the risks of tobacco products.

There was also a discussion about the lack of evidence on the long-term safety of e-cigarettes and the sometimes conflicting messaging on their use in smoking cessation services. The Committee asks that, as data is collected over the coming years, the Department consider the evidence and bring forward guidance and regulations as required on the basis of that evidence. The Committee agreed to recommend that the regulations be approved by the Assembly.

In my role as Sinn Féin health spokesperson, I indicate that Sinn Féin fully supports the measures to reduce exposure to second-hand cigarette smoke and to prevent young people from inappropriately accessing tobacco products. I welcome the Minister's indication that e-cigarette products will be monitored on an ongoing basis and that, should the evidence become clear, action will be taken.

As the Minister said, where the evidence is mixed, we should err on the side of caution, because we do not get a second chance to act quickly on such matters and on public health matters generally. It is the case that we live in an age of disinformation, but we do not want to see a repeat of the situation in which commercial interests, for many years and even decades, controlled the flow of evidence and information in a way that allowed harmful products to continue to be sold. I welcome the Minister's commitment on that.

I also welcome the reference to a communications strategy. Again, it is particularly relevant to this issue and to public health measures generally. Social and community cohesion, buy-in and understanding of such measures are crucial. The best barometer of the public messaging campaign, as well as the best monitoring and enforcement measure that we can have, is community agreement that certain things are necessary or beneficial and that society largely supports the measures being taken and responds in that way.

Pam Cameron (DUP, South Antrim)

I support all three motions: that on the draft Smoke-Free (Private Vehicles) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2021; that on the draft Nicotine Inhaling Products (Age of Sale and Proxy Purchasing) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2021; and that on the draft Tobacco Retailer (Fixed Penalty) (Amount) (Amendment) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2021. Northern Ireland is the only part of the UK and Ireland where it is still legal to expose people under the age of 18 to the dangers of second-hand smoke while in an enclosed vehicle, which in itself is enough reason to support the motions before the House. It is not acceptable, and the children of Northern Ireland deserve much greater health protection. It is disappointing that the provision is being enacted only now, despite there having been plans to do so as far back as 2014.

I welcome the fact that the proposed new regulations will extend the current smoke-free provisions to private vehicles where children are present, there is more than one person in the car and the vehicle is enclosed. Also, I welcome that it is proposed that failing to prevent smoking in a smoke-free private vehicle will be made an offence. Giving power to councils and to the PSNI to enforce the laws is a sensible move.

We will, of course, be aware of reports such as those from clinicians. For example, a report from the Royal College of Physicians says that smoking in a vehicle can lead to increased risk of asthma, lower respiratory tract infections, middle ear disease, bronchitis, bacterial meningitis, sudden infant death syndrome and reduced respiratory function.

Whilst it may feel like common sense to include e-cigarettes in the draft Smoke-Free (Private Vehicles) Regulations before us, we have to respect, at this point, that the evidence base for the second-hand effects of e-cigarettes and vaping is less conclusive. That is why the legislation will not include e-cigs and vaping at this time. Perhaps the Minister will advise us on whether he expects to have more evidence in the near future on that subject. Will he confirm that, should that evidence base be there in the coming months and years, he will swiftly move to add e-cigs and vaping to the legislation?

Without doubt, the planned regulations will play an important role in protecting children from the harms of nicotine and tobacco use. Proposals to prevent the sale of nicotine-inhaling products such as e-cigarettes to anyone under the age of 18 will be made under the Health (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act (NI) 2016. That is welcome. Today, we heard during Members' statements about the barbaric abuse of children, and I would argue that forcing a child, especially a small child, to inhale harmful substances is a form of abuse.

The provisions mirror existing arrangements already in place to prevent the sale and use of tobacco products by young people. They are a sensible move forward and recognition of the harm that e-cigarettes can cause to children. Again, we see Northern Ireland playing catch-up, as England and Wales moved on this in 2015 and Scotland in 2017.

The third of the regulations today relates to allowing fixed penalties for the new offences in relation to the sale or proxy purchase of nicotine-containing products to those aged under 18 years. That is another welcome and appropriate move. There will be some who see legislation such as this as unnecessary, but it is incumbent on the House to ensure that there is no doubt about the harm that nicotine causes for all of us as human beings and more so to a child forced to inhale second-hand smoke in a small, enclosed area such as a car. It is important that we recognise that the worth of such legislative changes is not how many will or can be prosecuted; it is about positively affecting our behaviour, given the knowledge that we now have. It is about increased awareness of the danger, and it is about making smoking in cars with children socially unacceptable. Again, I very much welcome the legislation, and I look forward to it becoming law in 2022.

Colin McGrath (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

I welcome the opportunity to speak today on the statutory regulations. They are timely and appropriate, and we in the SDLP think that they are adequate. If we have learnt anything in the past 18 months, it is that, when it comes to our health and well-being, prevention is critical. For example, we have all heard the stories of those who have ended up in hospital as a result of COVID, have felt its worst effects and then, on leaving hospital, have said that they would not wish that experience on anyone else. That is to say nothing of those who have ended up in hospital as a result of not having been vaccinated and then have come out the other side, thanks to the interventions of our incredible health staff, and said that they wished that they had been vaccinated. The statutory regulations offer us the opportunity to provide positive, preventive measures to ensure better health outcomes for our population and to prevent additional pressures being placed on our health service.

As has already been outlined, the three regulations are to ban smoking in private vehicles while someone under the age of 18 is present, to ban the sale of electronic cigarettes to those under the age of 18 and to establish fixed penalties, should someone be in breach of the regulations.

I have no doubt that some in our society will deem the regulations to be coercive or akin to decisions made by an authoritarian state. In my mind, however, they are essential steps that we should take.

In September, Queen's University Belfast published the most up-to-date cancer incidence and survival statistics for the North. It is a really impressive study, and I urge Members to give it the attention that it warrants. The findings are that, in the last five years, the number of cancer cases per year, excluding non-melanoma skin cancer, has increased by 11%. It is frightening that, while the incidence rate for lung cancer has decreased by 7% for men, it has increased by 16% for women. Our cancer incidence rate is 14% higher in the most deprived areas. The most common cancer to be diagnosed at stage 4 is lung cancer. From those figures, we also see that the survival rate for lung cancer is 11% in men and 15% in women. I would not call this coercion in any shape or form; I call it humanitarian legislation, because those figures are simply not going down.

My view and that of my party is that the statutory rules (SRs) must form part of a wider preventative effort to improve the health and well-being of our population. We are an ageing population, so our preventative measures must be as robust as possible. Our cancer strategy, which is set to be published this month, is part of that. I ask the Minister to ensure that that policy is expedited without delay. I support the regulations and continue to support the Minister. I hope that they are effective tools in our determination to provide positive, preventative healthcare in the North.

Alan Chambers (UUP, North Down)

I declare an interest as part-owner of a family business that sells tobacco products. That said, I welcome and fully support all legislation that provides clarity to retailers who sell tobacco and tobacco-related products. This further control will make a huge contribution to public health, especially that of our young people.

Banning smoking in a private vehicle when a child is present is important legislation that will protect the health of our young people. My party welcomes the legislation, which has been our party policy for some time. We commend the Minister for bringing the legislation to the House today. The harm inflicted by second-hand smoke inhalation should not be underestimated. The evidence for the harm that it causes is overwhelming. My party fully supports the statutory rules.

Paula Bradshaw (Alliance, Belfast South)

I am delighted to support the regulations. We on the all-party group on cancer have been campaigning on this for many years. I thank the officials from the Department of Health for drafting the regulations during the pandemic.

Ultimately, it is about protecting people under the age of 18 from the impact of tobacco and, as the Minister and Mr McGrath have already outlined, from the impact of cancer. The regulations are long overdue. Nonetheless, they are here today. They match those elsewhere in the UK. We note that enforcement falls not just to councils but to the police; that is to be welcomed. In the current context, the regulations give an important sign that we legislate to ensure that people take responsibility not just for their own health and well-being but for that of other people. In this case, those other people are a particularly vulnerable group: children.

As the Chair of the Health Committee indicated, I was slightly concerned about a couple of areas of the regulations. Those areas will be addressed by departmental officials, and they relate to motorhomes and fines. The Minister indicated that the fine is £50 but that can be reduced to £30, if it is paid quickly. I am concerned that £30 will not cause much damage to the purses of some people, and that those people will flout the regulations. Nevertheless, the Nicotine Inhaling Products (Age of Sale and Proxy Purchasing) Regulations are complementary, reinforcing that adults should not in any way be able to make children victims of smoking. Regulation 3 usefully defines the term "nicotine product". That is, of course, always developing, and the regulation has to be updated to stay in line. The Tobacco Retailer (Fixed Penalty) (Amount) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2016 have been updated to define the fixed penalties involved, and I very much welcome that clarity.

It is important to congratulate all those who have been involved in the campaign for this step. I pick out in particular Cancer Focus; Cancer Research UK; Action Cancer; Chest, Heart and Stroke; and the Stroke Association. They have lobbied for this for many years and will be delighted that we have got to this stage. As a Chamber, we are stating clearly how we expect people to behave responsibly towards the most vulnerable. We have heard today about issues such as asthma and cancer, and we have a duty to those whom we represent to put forward health policy and regulations that protect people's health not just now but in the future.

It is not expected that the smoking in cars legislation will frequently need to be enforced; indeed, in the first four years of application in Scotland, no penalties were applied, and we expect people to go along with it in recognition of the protection that it is designed to offer. I welcome, however, the Department's commitment for a full and comprehensive communications action plan to ensure awareness of the new rules before they come into force. Fundamentally, the regulations are about good public health, and there is no better time than now to bring them in. I strongly commend them.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

I call the Minister to make a winding-up speech.

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

First, I thank the Chair, Deputy Chair and members of the Health Committee not just for speaking in the debate but for their support in bringing forward the regulations to the House.

I will address a number of issues that were raised in the debate. The delay in bringing the regulations forward was noted by a number of Members. As the Chair of the Committee indicated, the delay was caused by this place not sitting and by the officials working on issues relating to the pandemic and to Brexit. When the opportunity arose to bring forward the regulations, at a time that allowed my officials to bring them forward and the Committee to engage with them, we did so.

I join Ms Bradshaw in acknowledging the organisations that continued to lobby for the regulations, which bring us in line with the rest of the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland.

The Chair of the Committee and Ms Bradshaw raised a concern about caravans and motorhomes. I draw the Members' attention to regulation 2(2)(6) of the draft statutory rule, which clarifies that:

"(a) a caravan or motor caravan that is stationary and not on a road; or (b) a caravan or motor caravan that is stationary, is on a road and is being used as living accommodation."

is outside the regulations. That is covered in the front page of the regulations.

The Deputy Chair of the Committee, Ms Pam Cameron, indicated her support and asked that, when evidence is received in the months and years ahead, I give a commitment to bring the regulations in. I will give the Department of Health's commitment in the months and years ahead that it will move when the evidence is presented. I will not make any presumptions about who may be in this office at that point.

I turn to Mr McGrath's comments. I thank the SDLP for its support for the draft statutory rules, which he described as "adequate". I think that they extensively give effect to the policy intent of the regulations over the years that they have been sitting in abeyance. I am glad that we have got here today with all-party support for what needs to be done. As regards Mr McGrath's indication of the importance of the cancer strategy being brought forward in a timely way, it is imperative that we do that.

The Deputy Chair of the Committee raised the issue of when the regulations, especially those on travelling in private vehicles, will come into effect. That is covered on the front page of the regulations. They will be applicable if:

"(a) it is enclosed, (b)there is more than one person present in the vehicle, and (c)a person under the age of 18 is present in the vehicle."

All three of those conditions must be met.

I thank Mr Chambers for his contribution. I am thankful for the acknowledgement of his and my party's support for bringing the regulations forward when we had the opportunity to do so.

The final Member who spoke was Ms Bradshaw. She raised a number of points, including the importance of the lobbying of other organisations in making sure that the issue did not drop off the agenda and the work of the all-party group in keeping the issue in focus. I acknowledge the thanks that she passed on to the departmental officials for their engagement in that regard. She also highlighted the importance of the dual approach to enforcement of the regulations involving the PSNI and local government.

Having covered the points made by Members, I hope that we can all agree on the importance of protecting our young people from exposure to second-hand smoke and nicotine addiction. The 2019-2020 health survey showed that 92% of adults who own a family car do not allow smoking in it when children are present. That is an encouragingly high number, but there is no room for complacency. More broadly, it is hoped that the Smoke-Free (Private Vehicles) Regulations will further reduce any misperceived acceptability of subjecting children to toxic second-hand smoke in any private setting. They will also, hopefully, help to prevent children from taking up the habit by further de-normalising smoking.

Protecting our young people from a potentially lifelong nicotine addiction and the as yet unknown impacts of long-term vaping is, without question, an important public health initiative. The 2019 young persons' behaviour and attitudes survey showed that 3% of 11-to-16-year-olds used e-cigarettes regularly, which is once a week. That figure is the same as the 2016 survey and remains relatively low, but, worryingly, one fifth of that age group have tried an e-cigarette at least once. This regulatory safeguard is a vital tool in reducing children's access to e-cigarettes and subsequently reducing the potential for early nicotine addiction.

I beg that the regulations be approved.

Question put and agreed to. Resolved:

That the draft Smoke-Free (Private Vehicles) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2021 be approved.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

Members should, please, take their ease while we move to the next item of business.

(Mr Deputy Speaker [Mr Beggs] in the Chair)

Private Members' Business

John Blair (Alliance, South Antrim)

I beg to move

That the Second Stage of the Hunting of Wild Animals Bill [NIA 43/17-22] be agreed.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

In accordance with convention, the Business Committee has not allocated a time limit to the debate overall but has agreed limits to individual contributions. The sponsor of the Bill will have 30 minutes to move the motion and a further 15 minutes to make a winding-up speech. The Minister will have up to 20 minutes to contribute, and the Chair of the Committee and all other Members who speak will have up to 15 minutes.

John Blair (Alliance, South Antrim)

I will proceed by pointing out that Northern Ireland is the only part of the United Kingdom without a ban on hunting with dogs. That is despite widespread public support for a ban, including fox and deer hunting. It is my opinion and that, widely, of the public that hunting with dogs is a cruel and unnecessary sport that causes immeasurable suffering to the hunted animals and the hunting dogs, which can also sustain horrific injuries, especially during what is known as "terrier work". Through my private Member's Bill, I intend to reform the legislation on hunting wild mammals with dogs in Northern Ireland to bring it in line with that in England, Scotland and Wales, where the practice has been illegal for nearly 20 years.

A ban on hunting with dogs in Northern Ireland is long overdue. That has been my personal and political stance for many years. It is also the policy position of my party, the Alliance Party. I firmly believe that animals being ripped to shreds by packs of dogs for human enjoyment cannot be considered a sport and that fox and stag hunting have no place in a civilised society.

Between December 2020 and February '21, I conducted an eight-week consultation exercise on my private Member's Bill. There were 18,425 responses to the survey. That is thought to be the largest number of responses to a private Member's Bill in the Assembly, and it shows the strength of feeling on the issue. An overwhelming majority of respondents, 78·16%, agreed with the proposals and said that all hunting, searching, coursing, capturing or killing of wild mammals with dogs should be banned in Northern Ireland. An even greater majority, 79·6%, said that they considered terrier work, which is using dogs to attack to cause a wild mammal to flee its cover, to be unacceptable.

Following consultation and deliberation, I considered that primary legislation would be the best mechanism by which to achieve the policy objectives comprehensively and to introduce appropriate penalties for breaches of the proposed law. Therefore, the Bill will make a consequential amendment to the Welfare of Animals (Northern Ireland) Act 2011 to ensure that a coherent statutory framework is in place.

The Bill aims to introduce a ban on the hunting of wild mammals to death with dogs, and, without introducing legislation, that practice could not be banned. I also intend the legislation to facilitate prosecutions and subsequent penalties to act as a deterrent to future hunting using dogs to kill wild mammals. I am also conscious of loopholes in the legislation in other jurisdictions, such as the use of trail hunting as cover for proscribed fox hunting. Accordingly, provision to address those has been included in the Bill. The legislation will ensure that Northern Ireland would lead the way with a full and comprehensive ban on hunting with dogs. It will not duplicate the exemptions and loopholes that have allowed animals to continue to be chased and killed in the rest of the UK. There is a historic opportunity to tackle the scourge of hunting with dogs once and for all in Northern Ireland. We need to end this brutally cruel activity that has no place in a modern society.

I will now outline the clauses of the Bill. In 2000, a UK parliamentary inquiry into hunting with dogs, commonly referred to as the "Burns report", established and concluded that animals suffer incredible physiological and psychological stress when chased by a hunt and that that suffering occurs regardless of whether they are eventually killed. That evidence led to a ban in England and Wales through the Hunting Act 2004. The Protection of Wild Mammals (Scotland) Act 2002 protected certain wild mammals from being hunted with dogs and placed restrictions on the practice of hunting wild mammals with dogs. Northern Ireland remains the only jurisdiction in the United Kingdom without a ban on hunting with dogs. Such hunting includes fox hunting and deer hunting. The Bill aims to introduce a ban on hunting wild mammals to death with dogs, with a definition broad enough to include deer, foxes, rabbits and mink.

The Bill also intends to ban trail hunting, which is defined in the Bill as:

"any process in which one or more dogs are induced or permitted to follow the scent of a wild mammal (whether the trail of scent has been laid naturally or by human intervention)."

It should be noted that that activity was non-existent — not even envisaged — when the Hunting Act 2004 was drafted. It is therefore crucial that a hunting with dogs ban in Northern Ireland prevent trail hunting from being used as cover for illegal hunting.

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

I am grateful to the Member for giving way. Is he aware of a recent court case in which it was found that trail hunting is precisely as the Member describes: a cover for fox hunting?

John Blair (Alliance, South Antrim)

I am aware of that, and, coincidentally, I will refer to it a line or two later in my speech.

Loopholes have been exposed in the legislation in England, Wales and Scotland that have allowed hunting to continue under certain guises, including trail hunting. Such exemptions are widely abused and make potential prosecutions difficult. They cannot be justified. It is imperative that Northern Ireland eliminate the loopholes that were highlighted in a recent court case in GB when the Westminster Magistrates' Court found a leading huntsman guilty and ordered him to pay £3,500 for giving advice on how to carry out hunts illegally. It was described as a landmark case. The court heard that, at two webinars last August, he had told members of the Hunting Office to use the legal form of trail hunting as a "smokescreen" for the criminal activity.

In addition to that, the Bill introduces a ban on terrier work, which is defined as:

"a process in which dogs are induced to enter a hole in the ground — (a) in order to flush out or otherwise force a wild mammal to leave the hole, or (b) in order to make it easier or quicker to dig a wild mammal out of the hole."

That is a simple description for the purpose of my speech, but I assure Members that the footage that I have seen of the activity is harrowing and makes for uncomfortable viewing. A secondary matter with terrier work that I was made aware of during the consultation process is that terriers can often sustain injuries. It can be the case that professional veterinary care is not sought and dogs are treated elsewhere. I have heard reports of dogs having staples in their jaws and superglue in their mouths as intended fixes. Those injuries also suggest that the dogs impacted in such circumstances are used for activities other than simply flushing rabbits and may have been involved in illegal badger baiting, for example, such is the extent of their injuries.

The Bill allows for exemptions. Hunting is exempt from the prohibition in clause 1 if it is confined to hunting rats or mice or if it complies with all the conditions listed in clause 4. Hunting that satisfies the conditions listed in the exemptions will not be deemed to be illegal. The exemptions cover protection of livestock, crops, biodiversity and hunting that puts food on the table, as well as the established and historical practices that are part of country life.

The Bill permits the hunting of wild mammals for the protection of biodiversity. However, I have to say at this point that hunting with dogs is more likely to have an adverse impact on wildlife, conservation and the wider environment. One of the most obvious characteristics of hunting with dogs as undertaken by organised hunts is the fact that it is based on a large pack of big dogs moving through the land at high speed, followed by many people who are often on horseback. That is bound to have an impact on the land where that occurs, because, naturally, the hounds will not care about disturbing the natural habitat where they are hunting, and those areas will, perhaps, include ground used by nesting birds that are already protected by law. Those consequences of recreational hunting and biodiversity conservation have been supported by a number of reviews and reports.

Members will also note that drag hunting and clean boot hunting have not been included in the Bill's remit. Both practices are non-lethal forms of hunting, and it is my hope that those involved in fox hunting will adapt and move to those animal welfare-friendly alternatives. It is vital, however, that the two activities are not confused with trail hunting. I emphasise that trail hunting is not drag hunting or clean boot hunting. Trail hunting can, however, be used as cover for illegal hunting, which is why it has been included in the Bill's remit. In fact, the exemptions in general have been written to avoid the potential for loopholes, misinterpretation and uncertainty.

In setting the penalties, I followed the highest penalty in section 31 of the Welfare of Animals Act (Northern Ireland) 2011. A person who commits an offence under this Act is liable:

"(a) on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months, or to a fine not exceeding £20,000, or both; (b) on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years, or to a fine, or both."

It is my hope that we can scrutinise the penalties further at Committee Stage, including the potential forfeiture of any dog or hunting article used in the commissioning of the offence or in the possession of the convicted person at the time of their arrest.

The interpretation section further defines the remit of the legislation. It states:

"It is an offence to organise or participate in the hunting of a wild mammal with a dog"

and that all willing participants or those otherwise involved in the pursuit of a wild mammal will have caused an offence. In defining the offences, I have not included a clause for recklessness. As trail hunting is to be prohibited, there is no need to extend that hunting offence to cover cases where a person who goes drag hunting is reckless and a live hunt ensues. I have made the offences ones of strict liability, which means that prosecution has to prove only the organisation of or participation in the hunting that I have mentioned. "Participation" carries within its natural language a meaning of deliberate engagement or organisation of a hunt that should, in turn, naturally exclude a person's genuinely inadvertent stumbling across a hunt.

I am grateful to present on the Hunting of Wild Mammals Bill, for the debate on the matter and for the opportunity for the Bill to progress for further consideration and scrutiny. Members will be aware that I represent a largely rural constituency and that, before I joined the Assembly, I worked closely with the country sports sector for many years and tried to ensure that country sports and other outdoor activities were accessible to the public. The Bill is not intended in any way to restrict traditional country sports such as shooting, using gun dogs or angling. The Bill maintains appropriate balance by exempting hunting from the ban in certain circumstances, including avoiding damage to livestock, crops or property and causing damage to the biological diversity of an area. It is therefore not my intention to go further than the scope of the Bill as outlined in the content and described today to Assembly colleagues. It is my hope that the Bill's clearly defined scope, to which I do not intend to add, is also a good reason why the Bill can easily be considered, consulted on and debated in a timely manner within the time limits of the current mandate.

We have a historic opportunity to make a significant difference: a real opportunity for Northern Ireland to not only catch up with the rest of the UK but lead the way in ensuring full, robust protection for animals persecuted for sport and human enjoyment. I look forward to debating the Bill's principles with political colleagues. I hope that they will give the legislation their backing so that we can finally consign hunting with dogs to history, where it belongs. I urge Members to support the Bill.

Declan McAleer (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

I welcome the opportunity to outline the Committee's views on the Hunting of Wild Mammals Bill.

The Committee received evidence from the Bill sponsor last Thursday. It recognises that this is a contentious matter and that due consideration needs to be given to the issues before introducing such restrictions. The Committee heard that the purpose of the Bill is to ban the use of dogs to hunt wild mammals to death, including foxes, rabbits, deer, hare and mink. It seeks to bridge a legislative gap here and in other parts of these islands. The Bill goes further, however, by closing legislative loopholes that have been exploited by individuals to continue the use of dogs to hunt under permissible activities.

Clause 1 will make it an offence to organise or participate in the hunting of wild mammals with dogs. The Committee acknowledges that the use of dogs will invariably lead to distress for other animals and potentially cause additional suffering.

The Committee was advised that, in order to bring a prosecution or impose a penalty under the Bill, there will be a threshold test to prove active participation and pursuit of a wild mammal using a dog. Members raised questions about that and were concerned that there may be insufficient safeguards to protect individuals who find themselves in a situation in which their dog independently chases a wild mammal. Related to that, members highlighted the fact that clause 6, which sets out how the Bill's provisions are to be interpreted, has a very wide scope and will potentially lead to individuals engaging in appropriate activity being sanctioned, penalised or restricted unnecessarily.

Clauses 2 and 3 of the Bill will ban the use of dogs in trail hunting and terrier work respectively. The Committee heard that trail hunting, whereby a dog is induced to follow the scent of an animal by artificial or actual means, has been used in some areas by people to circumvent a ban on the use of dogs, so it has been included in the Bill as a way of closing that gap. Terrier work, which involves the use of dogs underground to flush a wild mammal, is likely to cause the hunted animal distress and can also be dangerous to the participating dog, with a risk of injury associated with operating underground.

Clause 4 sets out exempted activities. The use of dogs to hunt rats and mice will be permissible. It will also be permissible to use dogs to hunt wild mammals if all the following preconditions are met: the hunting is carried out to prevent damage to livestock, crops, property or the biodiversity of an area or to obtain meat for consumption; each person who occupies the land on which the hunting will take place has given consent; no more than two dogs are used; and the wild mammal must be shot dead as soon as possible by a competent person. Members of the Committee acknowledged that those criteria are broadly reflective of other laws but consider that greater time and scrutiny will be required to explore the issues to determine their appropriateness.

Clause 5 establishes the penalties that may be imposed through the Bill. An individual who is found to commit an offence may be subject, on summary conviction, to imprisonment for up to 12 months and/or a fine up to £20,000, and, on indictment, to a prison term of up to five years, in addition to a possible fine. Those penalties are similar to provisions in other Acts, but greater time to review them is required in order to consider the proportionality of the penalties in the context of the very low conviction rates seen in England and Wales for similar breaches.

The Committee heard about the significant number of responses that the Bill sponsor received to the consultation, indicating the strength of feeling from members of the public on the issue. Notwithstanding the commitment that the intent of the Bill is to ban hunting with dogs, there is a strong lobby that considers hunting with dogs to be an important economic and recreational outlet, particularly in rural communities. We did not take a position on the Bill, but, should it pass its Second Stage today, we will engage on all the matters raised with the Bill sponsor and various stakeholders.

I will add some comments from my perspective as Sinn Féin spokesperson on agriculture and rural affairs. Sinn Féin does not agree with a ban on hunting. There are elements of the Bill that we agree with, however. The legislation as it stands is unworkable and would require significant additional time in Committee to rectify that. That is time that we do not currently have, given the challenges of other legislation, such as both Climate Change Bills.

I have no doubt that the issue will be revisited in the next mandate when the appropriate time can be set aside to examine it in the round and to work alongside stakeholders to see what legislative changes are needed, if any. It is my view that the process would be best taken forward by the Department of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs and its Minister in the next Executive, through a public consultation process in the first instance.

Chris Lyttle (Alliance, Belfast East)

I thank the Chair for giving way. I realise that reference to Committee business is a significant part of his position, but how many Bills is the AERA Committee considering? I am aware that the Health Committee, for example, is considering multiple Bills at this stage. Surely the pressures on the schedule can be overcome if MLAs put their shoulder to the wheel.

Declan McAleer (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

The Member will be aware that both Climate Change Bills are taking up the vast majority of the Committee's bandwidth at present. We are also dealing with the Horse Racing (Amendment) Bill and other important pieces of policy, such as the new environment policy and the new agriculture policy. The Bill will require more in-depth and thorough scrutiny at this juncture to give it due consideration.

William Irwin (DUP, Newry and Armagh)

I welcome the opportunity to contribute to the debate and record my concerns about the unintended consequences of what, in my view, amounts to bad legislation. As I represent a rural constituency, it will be no surprise to Members that I have received hundreds of pieces of correspondence from people who are deeply concerned about this poorly thought-out Bill. I wish to see it taken off the table.

The correspondence has come from responsible individuals who have taken time to explain to me their real concerns about the Bill. It is my duty to represent the hundreds of people who have contacted me, people who have raised their concerns and, indeed, drawn my immediate attention to the fact that practically every dog owner in the country whose dog may, at some point, chase a wild animal, could, indeed, be committing an offence if this poorly thought-out and ill-advised draft law were actually to come into force.

The Bill is poorly drafted, and its promotion has raised the concerns of many people. The Bill sponsor has unfairly painted a picture of rural life that is simply untrue. That is a regrettable by-product of this bad draft legislation. As a farmer, I am in tune with the rural environment and, indeed, care greatly for the animals that are in my control. I do not, at any time, wish to see any animal suffer needlessly. Indeed, as on my farm, farmers on many farms throughout the country spend heavily each year to ensure that animals are healthy and well. They also spend heavily on maintaining healthy habitats for wildlife, which has important knock-on benefits for the countryside. The control of vermin and pest species is an important part of maintaining the rural ecosystem. Certain species must be controlled effectively to ensure that that important balance is kept.

The Bill is the thin end of the wedge. As we have seen with such attempts at legislation previously, hunting, whilst it is not a pursuit that I engage in, is not the issue here; rather, this Bill is an attempt to create division and, indeed, misrepresent the rural community. The Countryside Alliance has conducted a significant amount of research and consultation on the issue. It makes an important point about evidence and the fact that, in the drafting of the Bill, no attempt seems to have been made to examine the evidence. There is significant research and a huge evidence base out there, following similar exercises on the mainland. It is worth considering that much of that evidence still points to a firm need to control the environment and pest species, and that need will remain.

Mr Blair's consultation has been the subject of much concern. There is a significant question mark over where the responses came from; whether they were from Northern Ireland or whether many were, possibly, generated from overseas. The consultation required only an email address, and of course it is important that any consultation focuses on the views of people here in Northern Ireland and is not open to abuse through organised spam emails. I remain concerned about the consultation process.

The inclusion of a two-dog limit in the Bill is a huge concern. It represents a real threat to how animals can be protected from vermin and pest species, and it would create huge difficulties to farmers with livestock that is susceptible to attack. The Bill would drastically reduce the capacity to deal with such attacks on livestock and, indeed, manage game.

Clause 6 is also a huge concern. It would see a criminal offence being committed if a dog, while out for a run with its owner, decides to chase a wild animal. The poorly constructed Bill is concerningly open in its language in that area. It would have serious implications for a wide range of scenarios, such as a simple day out in the country with your pet dog. It would also have implications for rough shooters, gamekeepers, pest controllers and, indeed, farmers.

I say it again: the Bill is bad for the countryside and risks criminalising ordinary people. Surely, that cannot be allowed to happen in this day and age. Members, you simply cannot be oblivious to the ramifications of the Bill and what it would mean, in legal terms, for the countryside and rural dwellers. You may not have an interest in hunting, but surely you have an interest in the House creating laws that are sensible, logical and, crucially, enforceable. The Bill is none of those. I sincerely hope that it does not progress. It will represent a very backward step and create a legislative nightmare. The resource implications for the PSNI will be significant, and, as we have seen in other areas such as mainland UK, the rate of enforcement is disproportionately low when compared to other offences. On the basis of what is before the House, I cannot support the Bill, given the concerning legal ramifications. I urge the House to reject the Bill.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

I welcome the opportunity to debate this issue today and thank the Member for affording us the opportunity. The SDLP is deeply committed to animal welfare, preventing the abuse of animals and ensuring that abusers correctly carry the consequences. A lot of work has been done in relation to the register of offenders by my colleague Dolores Kelly, with Sinéad Bradley, myself and councillor Malachy Quinn. I lay my cards on the table: I am one of the people who engage in country sports. I do not hunt with dogs like this here, but I am one of the 54,000 people who have a firearms certificate for the purpose, and John already knows that. My concern is not flippant or an aside. It is a major concern about section 6, "Interpretation":

"A reference in this Act to the hunting of a wild mammal with a dog includes any case where a wild mammal is pursued by one or more persons and one or more dogs are employed in that pursuit."

That is the draft legislation as proposed at the Second Stage in this Bill. What does that mean? Where I come from, it is not unusual to see a group of people, mostly on a Saturday morning, out with their dogs and shotguns, either after pheasants or on their way to the duck pond or to Lough Neagh to carry out a very legitimate and approved activity. Indeed, I will place on record that many of those people are among the most law-abiding people that there are, because they do not want anything to jeopardise their sport or the retention of their shotgun or whatever they have the firearms certificate for.

The Chair has already mentioned that, under this legislation, a person can face:

"imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months, or to a fine not exceeding £20,000".

I will paint a picture: go back to that Saturday morning when that group of people are going out pheasant shooting or whatever it might be. They will have specially bred dogs for that purpose; they are good dogs such as spaniels. Those dogs get the scent of a wild mammal, and they are off in pursuit of it. The owners will try to restrain the dogs and get them back so that they can get to their destination. In the meantime, a police officer has observed that activity. According to the Bill we have in front of us, that police officer has observed an organised group of people who are in the act of:

"hunting of a wild mammal with a dog includes any case where a wild mammal is pursued by one or more persons and one or more dogs are employed in that pursuit."

John Blair (Alliance, South Antrim)

I thank the Member for giving way. I will make two points, and perhaps he can clarify them. So far, he has clearly outlined that he does not have a major difficulty with some of the elements of the Bill that deal with the most brutal and barbaric of country sports. Can the Member clarify his position on fox hunting, for example? However, to clarify the legislative position on police intervention if such a thing happened, I ask him if that is not exactly what currently happens with the legislation that is designed to protect badgers. If a dog instinctively or innocently follows the scent of a badger, that set of circumstances already exists. As far as I am aware, no one has been prosecuted on that basis.

In relation to the police and the legislative situation with badgers, thus far, nothing has happened. We have to trust the police to make a judgement at the time. Other allegations against someone who holds a firearms certificate might also have implications for them, not just this.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

I thank the Member for that intervention. There is but one difference between the badger and some of those other mammals; the badger is, largely, a nocturnal animal, and, generally, people are not out with dogs at that time of the night.

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

I appreciate the Member's giving way. Surely the issue is about intent. The law is clear about people intending to pursue wild mammals. The issue is clearly about intent. If the Bill passes, I see no scenario in which innocent people will end up being hauled in front of a court over an accident where their dog picked up and followed a scent. It is clear that the Bill is about the intent of the pursuit of wild mammals.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

I get what the Member is saying, but, if a police officer observes a group of people with a group of dogs in pursuit of a wild mammal, the police officer is duty-bound to assess that situation, as they see it at that moment, be it rightly or wrongly.

Allow me to expand on that. I am sure that other Members have dealt with people who have got into problems, be they alleged, perceived or otherwise, with firearm certificates. Under the interpretation of the Bill, as I read it, the implication is that people will face difficulties and possibly prosecution owing to not only being caught in that scenario by a police officer or officers but being in possession of a firearm. One issue relates to animal welfare, and the other is quite clearly the illegal use of a firearm, as it would be seen. In the context of the legislation, as a consequence of a serious offence such as one relating to animal welfare, their shotguns are immediately scooped and taken into safe holding by the police.

Mr Blair and I had a discussion about that, and those issues can be left to be rectified by the Public Prosecution Service (PPS). We all know the legalities and how the law works. From the initial point of the guns being scooped, to statements being prepared by police, to those statements being passed to the Public Prosecution Service and the Public Prosecution Service delivering a decision, it can take 12,18 or 24 months, and, with COVID-19, it has taken incredibly longer over the last while. Even at the point at which the Public Prosecution Service makes a decision and says, "No, there will be no prosecution", the decision to return that person's firearm is left not to the Public Prosecution Service but to the firearms and explosives branch (FEB). Based on the evidence that it has, including the statements of police officers, it can decide whether that person is fit for the return of the firearm. That is the process. I have been through it with many people over the years, and it is a fair indication as to how things can go, especially when that happens.

I have to pay tribute because some information arrived this morning. Some of the legal aspects and concerns around the Bill have been raised by the British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC). Some detailed advice around the Bill has come from legal persons. In the intervening 12, 14, 18 months or however long it may take for the PPS to make a decision on the matter and the FEB to return the gun —

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

Will the Member —

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

Yes, thank you, I will wind up now. If that person is in a sensitive occupation, such as a veterinary surgeon, a police officer, probation officer or anyone in social services, their boss may call them in and say, "Here, I hear that you are being investigated for a very serious offence". Those issues around that interpretation really need to be addressed. I appreciated Mr Blair listening to us on Thursday, when we raised those issues, and again on Thursday evening with the party, but I have serious concerns about — I do not dispute that they are not intended consequences — what are unintended consequences of the interpretation under clause 6. Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker; I hope that I have made the time frame work.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

I call Rosemary Barton, and I advise the Member that I may have to interrupt her, as we are approaching Question Time at 2.00 pm.

Rosemary Barton (UUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker; I will try to keep within the time limits. I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in this Second Stage debate.

Northern Ireland has no dedicated and specific legislation that bans or regulates the hunting of mammals with dogs, unlike in England, Scotland and Wales, where hunting with dogs is either restricted or banned by legislation. We do, however, have legislation that protects wildlife as its objective, such as the Wildlife and Natural Environment Act (Northern Ireland) 2011, which prohibited hare coursing but left the possibility to hunt wild animals. There is also legislation to deal with attacks on people, livestock and other animals.

While there are many who say that hunting with dogs is a necessity to keep predators like foxes under control, others contend that that method of control is very cruel and causes unnecessary suffering before the animal dies. There are swifter and more humane methods of eradicating predators such as foxes, which are a danger to young lambs, free-range fowl and ground-nesting birds.

In considering the Bill, we must remember that its aim is to introduce a ban on hunting wild mammals to death with dogs. It is a short Bill, with 10 clauses, but there are several that need greater clarification as to their intent.

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

I am grateful to Mrs Barton for giving way. At Second Stage, we consider the general principles of the Bill. The further clarification that Members wish for can be provided at further stages. Can we all agree, as a general principle, that the hunting of a wild mammal to death with a pack of dogs is cruel and unnecessary?

Rosemary Barton (UUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Yes, that is what I said.

Clause 1 makes it an offence:

"to organise or participate in ... hunting".

There is no clear definition as to what a participant is. Is it an individual on horseback, who is out for a hack with their pet dogs? Is it someone who is out on a country walk, whose dog chases a rabbit?

Clause 2(2) is also ambiguous, in that it suggests that trail hunting:

"means any process in which one or more dogs are induced or permitted to follow the scent of a wild mammal".

A landowner who is walking across their fields with their dogs off a leash, which suddenly pick up the scent of a wild mammal and give chase, must be protected. One cannot prevent the hunting instincts of a pet.

I also have concerns that the current wording of the Bill would end drag hunting, which allows for pursuit by dogs following an artificial scent. Drag hunting could also allow horse riders, who formerly hunted, to continue to meet, socialise and enjoy the countryside.

Clause 3(2) states that terrier work refers to:

"a process in which dogs are induced to enter a hole".

However, there are other animals that could also be induced to enter a hole in the ground in order to force a wild mammal to leave its hole. Is that permissible, as wild animals may have the same ending?

In clause 4(3)(a) and (b), clarification is needed on the definition of "serious damage". That is an evidential threshold: how is the damage measured? In clause 4(3), clarification is also needed on whether the stalking of wild mammals for food is included.

There is ambiguity, again, in clause 6(1). If several people, or even a landowner and his family, are out for a walk and have several pet dogs along with them, those dogs could become involved in the pursuit of a rabbit. An amendment is needed to ensure that ordinary pet owners in Northern Ireland are not criminalised by the Bill.

Were the Bill to become law, and were hunts to come to an end, consideration would need to be given to compensation for the men and women who would lose their jobs. Consideration also needs to be given to the hounds that are specifically kept to accompany hunts. Those animals are not pets, and, therefore, there are limited opportunities for them to become house pets. Furthermore, will many of the hunt horses also be retired? If so, what is their future?

In conclusion, I am content for the Bill to pass Second Stage, but a lot of work and assurances are required on a number of clauses, given that alternative methods of eradicating what the agricultural community refers to as predators can address farm livestock protection issues without being a hindrance to biodiversity.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

Members, Question Time is due to commence at 2.00 pm. I ask that Members take their ease until then.

The debate stood suspended.

(Mr Speaker in the Chair)

Oral Answers to Questions — Economy

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Question 10 has been withdrawn.

Gerry Carroll (People Before Profit Alliance, Belfast West)

1. Mr Carroll asked the Minister for the Economy to outline what consideration he has given to environmental factors in the granting of petroleum licences. (AQO 2837/17-22)

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

I have not granted any petroleum licences, and there are no petroleum licences in place in Northern Ireland.

Gerry Carroll (People Before Profit Alliance, Belfast West)

I thank the Minister for his answer. I do not know if that is exactly the case. Given that there is widespread concern about the environmental impact of petroleum licences on local habitats and people who work on the land, does the Minister accept that we need to keep all fossil fuel reserves in the ground if we are to have a chance of stopping climate change, and does he support a ban to prevent the progression of any future petroleum licences?

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

As the Member will be aware, one of my predecessors commissioned independent research into that issue. That report is being considered as part of the development of policy options for the future of petroleum licensing. The report will be published when the Department is in a position to publicly consult on the future options for petroleum licensing, but of course that needs to be considered and approved by the Executive first.

Caoimhe Archibald (Sinn Féin, East Londonderry)

I wrote to the Minister's predecessor in January 2020 setting out Sinn Féin's opposition to petroleum licensing in the North, and I understand that the Department has had the report, which the Minister referred to, since July. The lack of clarity since then is causing anxiety and concern to communities, which have also voiced clear opposition to petroleum licensing. Can the Minister at least provide a date for when the report will be published?

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

I have previously said that I hope to be able to take the report to the Executive by the end of this year, and that is still my intention.

Stewart Dickson (Alliance, East Antrim)

Minister, you will be aware that there was recently a leak of information around the report. That is unhelpful in that we need to have the report in front of us so that everybody can see it. Minister, will you indicate now the direction of travel that the Department will be taking in order to assure the public that we will no longer be exploring for petroleum or other carbon-based fuels in Northern Ireland and that those fuels will be left in the ground where they rightly belong? We need a very clear statement from you, Minister, and from your Department on that.

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

Of course, that is not a decision just for me but is, rightly, an Executive decision. That is why independent research has been commissioned. That will be part of the evidence base that we use when we discuss the matter as an Executive, and that report will then be published once we consult on policy options.

Maurice Bradley (DUP, East Londonderry)

Minister, in view of the comments made around the House, are there any live applications in the system that include fracking? Has the Minister approved any?

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

It is a no to both those questions.

Doug Beattie (UUP, Upper Bann)

2. Mr Beattie asked the Minister for the Economy for an update on the development of the new energy strategy. (AQO 2838/17-22)

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

The policy options consultation included a commitment to publish the energy strategy before the end of 2021, and that remains that case. It is my intention to bring the energy strategy to the Executive at their next meeting, subject to the approval of the First Minister and deputy First Minister. The energy strategy has been at an advanced stage, but I wanted to consider it in the context of recent steep global energy price rises, and, through my attendance at COP26, I was able to better understand the significant economic opportunities for Northern Ireland arising from global energy decarbonisation.

Doug Beattie (UUP, Upper Bann)

I thank the Minister for that. It is good to see that it is still on track to be out before the end of the year. Will the Minister consider, in conjunction with the Communities Minister, setting up a fuel poverty task force to deal with that very real issue, which people are facing today?

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

The Member is absolutely right to recognise fuel poverty and the problems that it is causing. It has always been a significant issue in Northern Ireland but even more so now because of the unprecedented price increases and the current cost of gas, particularly the wholesale price.

The Member will be aware that fuel poverty is the direct responsibility of the Department for Communities, and it is right that the Communities Minister leads on it. However, in the medium to longer term, I want to bring forward an energy strategy that addresses those issues in that time frame to ensure that we have an affordable and secure energy supply for Northern Ireland.

Peter Weir (DUP, Strangford)

It is right that the Minister paused to ensure that COP26 is reflected in the energy strategy as well as the change in energy prices, which will not be short-term. Does he agree that the key elements of any energy strategy have to be energy security and affordability of the burden placed on consumers and businesses?

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

Yes, that is absolutely the case. Affordability is to the fore of all our minds right now. We recognise the impact that the cost of fuel has on those in poverty, as Mr Beattie stated. All our constituents are affected by this, not only individual constituents but businesses. That is why it is vital that affordability is at the heart of everything that we do. As well as making sure that we have more affordable energy, we can help people by ensuring that they use that energy as efficiently as possible. This will be a key part of the strategy that Executive colleagues will agree. Of course, the cheapest form of energy is that which you do not use at all. We need to look at how we can invest in buildings, in particular, to ensure that we are as energy efficient as possible.

Matthew O'Toole (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

We have asked the Department many times about issues such as fuel poverty, and we have been told to wait for the energy strategy. We have asked about support for microgeneration, and we have been told the same thing. That is understandable up to a point, but you said today that the energy strategy will be published before the end of the year. Will you give us certainty that, when the strategy is published, you will come to the Assembly and allow us to question you on what is in it, so that we can best understand how it will meet the important questions on energy transition and affordability that all Members have?

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

As a Minister, I have always opened myself up to the scrutiny of the Assembly. I am more than happy to take any questions from Members. The strategy will receive broad support. All the Departments have worked together on it. I understand and recognise the role of the House to ask questions, which may be difficult questions at times. I will be open to that.

Philip McGuigan (Sinn Féin, North Antrim)

The Department has already indicated that we will not see any legislation from the energy strategy in this mandate. Others have already indicated the urgency of the issues, not least the need to decarbonise and the massive impact of the rising cost of energy. At the very least, will the Minister indicate what aspects of the strategy will be brought forward, and can he give a commitment that this will be done as soon as possible in the next mandate?

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

I am unable to give any commitment as to what happens in the next mandate. I may not be in this post, and I cannot tie the hands of any future Minister or Assembly. It will be up to them to decide. It is my job to bring the energy strategy to the Executive, and it will be up to them to decide whether to support it. However, we want to move forward with what is in the strategy as soon as possible. That is how we will make a difference and a change that will impact on people's lives, businesses and jobs.

William Irwin (DUP, Newry and Armagh)

3. Mr Irwin asked the Minister for the Economy for his assessment of the impact on businesses of the proposed removal of the red diesel rebate in April 2022. (AQO 2839/17-22)

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

The change to the red diesel rebate is being progressed by HM Treasury; it is not a taxation issue within the scope of devolution. I have had limited correspondence in relation to this change, but, as Economy Minister, I am aware of the impact that it will have on the construction industry in particular and the cost that it will add to consumers. There will be an impact here on mining, quarrying, waste management and commercial heating, and that will most likely be passed to consumers.

William Irwin (DUP, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Minister for his response. Does he accept that there will be huge implications? For instance, there are people who drive a mechanical digger all day. They work for farmers in the morning and, in the evening, they are on a building site doing excavation work for a bungalow. How can they change from one fuel to another in a few hours? It is nearly impossible. It would be very difficult to work in that way.

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

The Member is absolutely right. Changes to various industries will take place. For someone who works in farming and construction, and who uses the same piece of machinery in both, it will cause difficulties. I am not sure whether the Government have thought all of that through. I have already raised the issue, in part, with the Finance Minister, who will take the lead on it with the Government at Westminster. That is another example of the difficulties that it may cause. It will create a difficulty for people in those businesses in particular.

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

The Minister will be aware that some key installations, not least power stations, have reserves of red diesel in case of emergency. Has the Minister secured an exemption for those installations?

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

The UK Finance Bill will require Northern Ireland electricity generators to replace the rebated fuel with white diesel prior to 1 April 2022. That will result in Ballylumford and Kilroot burning existing stocks of red diesel in advance of the deadline to completely purge and clean storage tanks so that they can accept white diesel. Of course, there are significant additional costs to replace red diesel. I have been in correspondence on that, but no exemptions have been secured for Northern Ireland at this point.

Maolíosa McHugh (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

Minister, have you had any engagement with Ministers in the Republic of Ireland, given the possible impact that the removal of the red diesel rebate will have on businesses operating in border regions? I think of my region in particular, in which people will potentially be faced with two different sets of regulations.

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

No. I have not had those conversations with any Ministers in the Republic of Ireland.

Chris Lyttle (Alliance, Belfast East)

Is the Economy Department on schedule to meet the targeted removal of red diesel from our roads?

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

I do not think that that policy is an area of responsibility for my Department.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

I thank the Minister for his engagement on the issue. What measures is his Department attempting to take to mitigate the worst impacts of the restricted use of red diesel? We have heard about the technical aspects, but there is one very practical aspect, and that is the potential 12-week wait to get the redemption on the duty paid. Have representations been made to Westminster on that matter?

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

Certainly, it is the case that that is a taxation issue. As a result, it is the Department of Finance that primarily engages with the Treasury on those issues. I have previously expressed some of my concerns about that. I have since picked up more, so I will correspond further with the Government to ensure that they recognise the implications of the actions that they are taking and to see what mitigations can be put in place to protect us from the worst of those.

Paula Bradshaw (Alliance, Belfast South)

4. Ms Bradshaw asked the Minister for the Economy for an update on the deadline for the use of the high street scheme Spend Local prepaid card. (AQO 2840/17-22)

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

In my statement to the Assembly on 2 November 2021, I announced that I was to extend the deadline for people to use their Spend Local prepaid card from 30 November to 14 December. That provided a further two weeks for people to use their card. That will provide applicants, especially those who receive their card now, with a fairer timescale in which to use their card. It will also provide additional time for people who have already used their card to spend any remaining balance, no matter how small that may be, to support those businesses that were hit so hard by the pandemic. It remains the case that most people will have had at least four weeks to spend their card, but I recognise that that will not be the case for everyone.

To date, 1,399,877 cards have been dispatched, and 1,350,436 of those have been activated. As of today, over £115 million has been injected into our local economy. I have been very encouraged by the feedback from local businesses, Chambers of Commerce and trade representatives from all parts of Northern Ireland. They have been telling me how important the economic boost from the spend on the card has been and continues to be in helping them to recover from the severest impacts of the pandemic. I have encouraged and will continue to encourage everyone to fully spend their Spend Local prepaid card to support Northern Ireland's local businesses right up to the scheme's closing date.

Paula Bradshaw (Alliance, Belfast South)

Thank you, Minister, for your response. Yes, some of the figures are very encouraging, but there remain some constituents of mine who have not yet received their card. I had correspondence from a constituent today who was advised on 26 November that his details had been verified, but, as of today, he has still not got his card. Minister, there are a lot of people who are relying on this £100, not least the people who lost their jobs during the pandemic. What will you do for the people who have not received their card? Will they be compensated?

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

I am sure that, like the Member, all other Members have constituents who are yet to receive their card. I am pleased that another 4,500 cards are being sent out today. We are now using a next-day delivery service to ensure that those are got out as quickly as possible. That is important, because it is in everybody's interests that they get their card, and it is in everybody's interests that they spend what is on it. MLAs are continuing to get in contact with the Department to assist those who have not yet received their card, and my Department remains ready to help those who need it.

Stephen Dunne (DUP, North Down)

Does the Minister believe that the scheme is delivering on its twin objectives of providing an economic stimulus for our high streets and reorienting people away from clicks to bricks?

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

I believe that it has done. We need only look at the figures on the uptake of the scheme and on the spend thus far. It has been very encouraging. As I said, I have spoken to chambers of commerce and local retailers right across Northern Ireland, and everybody is saying the same thing: that they are getting people into their shops, retail premises, entertainment facilities and leisure facilities who perhaps had not been in for a while and would not otherwise have come in if they had not had their card. That is great news, and I thank everybody who has been involved in the promotion of the scheme.

I know that Members across the House have been encouraging people to apply and to spend, and to spend locally, so the scheme is absolutely getting people out and giving a short-term economic boost. Nobody can doubt that. There is also some evidence to suggest that people are not only going once and spending their card but starting to come back again or being brought on to the high street to spend their card and then coming back because they have seen something in another shop. We had some really encouraging statistics towards the end of last week that showed that the footfall on Northern Ireland's high streets is significantly improved compared with that in the other regions of the UK: Scotland, England and Wales.

The scheme is therefore working for both objectives, but I encourage people to continue to spend and to make sure that they use everything that is on their card in order to give as much of a boost to the high street as we can.

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Like the Member who asked the original question, I have been dealing with scores and scores of people who have still not received their card. Just over a week out from the deadline, I hope that they receive it very soon.

Minister, one of the other issues about which there have been some concerns is that of people who applied for the card and received it but, for whatever reason, have not activated or used it. Can you provide some figures on the numbers of eligible people who have not applied for the card or who applied for and received it but have not activated it so far?

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

We do not have a list of or figures for the number of people who were eligible to apply but did not. I think that we publicised the scheme very well. Our estimates suggest that in and around 1·4 million people in Northern Ireland were eligible and that in and around 1·4 million have applied, so there has been an exceptionally high uptake rate.

As I said earlier, 1,399,877 people have had their card sent to them, and 1,350,436 have had their card activated. There are therefore in and around 50,000 people who have not activated their card yet. I suppose that you do not need to activate your card until you spend it, but I encourage everybody to do that as soon as possible. Again, I encourage everybody to go out and make sure that what is on the card is spent before the deadline and for everybody to spend not only some of it but everything that is on it. Last week, on average, there was £17 left on every card, and today that is £11. People are using it up, but I encourage everybody to do so before the deadline.

Daniel McCrossan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, West Tyrone)

I put on my record my thanks to the Minister's Department for the swift way in which it is has been responding to our offices. It has been very useful and, on many occasions, quite swift. This week, reference was made to the fact that 3,000 phone calls relating to concerns around the scheme are made to the Department each day. Aside from the cost of the cards themselves, what is the actual overall cost of administering the scheme?

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

I do not have that information. I know that it exists, but I do not have it in front of me. I am more than happy to provide that information to the Member in writing. I hope that he understands that I do not have all of that here.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

5. Mr Beggs asked the Minister for the Economy to outline the role of the Health and Safety Executive (HSE) in promoting good practice to minimise the risk of the spread of COVID-19. (AQO 2841/17-22)

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

Throughout the pandemic, the Health and Safety Executive has sought to utilise the information emanating from the Public Health Agency in a way that will assist employers to keep their staff safe and that will allow them to continue to function. That advice has been offered not only through face-to-face inspections but via email, telephone conversations, social media and regularly updated advice on the Health and Safety Executive's website.

The Health and Safety Executive has no vires in areas such as leisure, retail or hospitality. Its role in ensuring that food production and processing, the transport and logistics sector and key manufacturing sites have been able to continue throughout the pandemic has been critical, however, and it has protected our economy while keeping people safe in the workplace. Since the start of the pandemic, the Health and Safety Executive has provided direction or advice during 1,736 COVID-related site visits.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

Minister, there have been some superspreading events, which have endangered staff and patrons. Over 200 young people contracted COVID at a disco in The Elk in Toomebridge and took it home to their families. Does the Minister accept that, in such high-risk venues, COVID certificates or proof of a negative lateral flow test reduce the likelihood of the spread of COVID and, ultimately, the pressures on our hospitals? What role does the Health and Safety Executive play in monitoring and enforcing the regulations?

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

The Health and Safety Executive does not have any role in that. It does not have the legal powers or the people to enforce those regulations. That is not a way that we can enforce the regulations.

In relation to the Member's first question, we have no evidence — certainly none has been provided to us — for how COVID vaccine certification would help to reduce transmission of the virus. I accept that negative lateral flow tests could be of some use, because they can tell you about a person's immediate status. My concern about lateral flow tests, however, is that they are self-certified, so there is room for fraud.

The evidence that I have seen, from the University of Oxford and from 'The Lancet', in relation to vaccine passport certification shows that a vaccinated person and an unvaccinated person are just as likely to transmit the virus. The strong evidence that we would need in order to say that vaccine passports will reduce the transmission of COVID-19 significantly, or in any way, is not there. That is why I have concerns about the passports and believe that it is wrong to introduce them.

There will be one big impact, which will be on our hospitality sector. We have heard about the number of bookings that have been cancelled, and we have heard about many people's concerns. In particular, I have received concerns from the hospitality industry about the cost and implementation of such a scheme. That is where the difficulties have come from. A lot of people feel that they will need to deploy additional staff to bring those passports in.

Those are my concerns. It is certainly not a role for the Health and Safety Executive.

Jemma Dolan (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I thank the Minister for his answers so far. Minister, earlier in the pandemic, the COVID engagement forum helped to make workplaces safe by bringing trade unions, the Public Health Agency and business representative groups together to shape an agreed COVID safety policy for the workplace. Do you agree that there needs to be coordinated engagement on compliance and enforcement?

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

Compliance with the rules that have been put in place is clearly important. Enforcement is a difficult area. In a lot of cases, the question that people ask themselves is this: who will do the enforcement? A lot of responsibility has been left with hospitality and other industries, and that creates difficulty for them. That is where a lot of the concern comes from. It is not a role that the Health and Safety Executive is able to jump into.

I will say — it is often missed — that hospitality and other industries have worked well together and have spent an awful lot of time, effort, energy and money on making their establishments as secure as possible. If you look at some of the statistics on where spread is, potentially, taking place, you will see that they show the relative safety of some of those establishments. I pay tribute to all those who have absorbed that cost in order to keep people safe.

Matthew O'Toole (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

Minister, I agree that hospitality is vital and that it has suffered a terrible 18 months, but I am sure that you will agree that it is critical to the functioning of the Executive in a pandemic that there is a unified message from Ministers on public health measures once the Executive have agreed them. Can you confirm whether you authorised someone to leak to the BBC two days after the omicron variant was first reported, on Friday 26 November, a letter from you that outlined your supposed opposition to COVID certification?

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

There have been many leaks across many months from the Executive. I am not sure who is responsible for those leaks, but they have happened, and I think that they have come from many different people over that period. The Member asks about unity in the Executive. In the past, other Ministers have expressed their concern about Executive policy. Sometimes, they think that it has gone too far; at other times, they think that it has not gone far enough. I was open and upfront with Executive colleagues, and also publicly, about my position. I do not need to hide behind anyone else leaking anything. I have been upfront about my position.

Stewart Dickson (Alliance, East Antrim)

Minister, the message from the Executive is that we are all in this together. Do your words today not rather undermine that message by giving mixed messages about COVID certification and lateral flow tests and to the supporting agencies such as the Health and Safety Executive, our public health officers and others? Are we not truly all in this together, and is it not important that the Assembly and, in particular, the Executive speak with one voice?

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

I am here to defend the hospitality industry, which I feel has been unfairly treated. I am here to raise concerns that have been expressed about the impacts of the policies that have been put in place. I recognise that Executive colleagues have taken a different decision. The Executive are united in wanting to make sure that we defeat the pandemic and that we get to the other side of it, but, in my view, we should take measures that are proportionate and evidence-based and that actually deal with the issues. It is right that I express those concerns.

Harry Harvey (DUP, Strangford)

6. Mr Harvey asked the Minister for the Economy what discussions he has had with energy providers regarding rising energy costs. (AQO 2842/17-22)

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

The Utility Regulator is responsible for regulating the electricity and gas industries in Northern Ireland, including prices where necessary, and it maintains continuous engagement with energy providers as part of that process. I do not have the power to halt fuel price increases. My officials, however, continue to work with the Utility Regulator and the Consumer Council to ensure that consumers are protected as much as possible through the regulated domestic tariff regime for electricity and gas in Northern Ireland.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

That ends the period for listed questions. We will move on to 15 minutes of topical questions. Questions 5 and 9 have been withdrawn.

Pat Catney (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Lagan Valley)

T1. Mr Catney asked the Minister for the Economy, having just come from a meeting of a task force that the Minister set up to regenerate the high street, of which more businesspeople must become members, to state what his Department has done to tackle the incorrect information that has been sent to licensed premises about their liability and the risk of legal action if they do not enforce the rules on domestic COVID certificates. (AQT 1861/17-22)

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

I am not aware of what the Member is referring to, but, if he wants to illuminate it for me, I will be more than happy to look in to that.

Pat Catney (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Lagan Valley)

Owners of licensed premises have written to me to inform me that they have received threatening letters from your Department about not enforcing the rules. I am not sure whether that is 100% correct, but all help should be given to licensed premises so that they can open safely, in accordance with the rules as laid down. Minister, do you agree that the only way in which to keep those businesses open this Christmas is to do all that we can to prevent the spread of the virus, including promoting the roll-out of booster vaccines and the full use of domestic COVID certificates?

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

First, I am not aware of any threatening letters having been sent out by my Department. I am more than happy to —

Pat Catney (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Lagan Valley)

Can I come in?

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

I do not think that you can come in; this is Question Time rather than a debate. I am more than happy to speak to the Member afterwards. If he gives me some evidence of that, I would be more than happy to look in to the matter.

We should do all that we can to prevent the spread of the virus. I have set out quite clearly my position on COVID certification. I look at the evidence and what has happened elsewhere. I look at other jurisdictions that have not taken that proposal any further because of the lack of evidence that it has worked. That is my position. I recognise the concerns that the hospitality industry has expressed, and I want to do everything that I can to help that sector.

Órlaithí Flynn (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

T2. Ms Flynn asked the Minister for the Economy what is being done to ensure that those people who, as of today, have not received a Spend Local card will receive a card before the deadline, given that some £6 million was allocated to administer the high street scheme and an email was issued, with a deadline of midnight on Sunday, for people who had enquiries about non-receipt of their card. (AQT 1862/17-22)

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

I thank the Member for her question. This issue was raised earlier. I made the point that we are doing everything that we can to make sure that everybody who was verified gets their card. That includes moving to next-day delivery so that we make sure that people get their card as soon as possible. We have a team in the Department that is going through those emails and trying to get those cards out. We are doing everything that we can. We understand the concerns that exist. Another 4,500 cards went out today. More will be sent out in the coming days. I hope that people will get those as soon as possible so that they can spend them locally.

Órlaithí Flynn (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I hope that that will reassure people. We are all getting enquiries from those who have not physically received their card, so, hopefully, that is in process.

The rationale behind the scheme was about creating a stimulus for the economy. Can the Department, even at this early stage, provide any estimates as to how much of a stimulus has been created?

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

We know that £115 million has been spent in our local economy. You will be aware, I am sure, of the figures from Retail NI. When we spend local, 63% of it is recycled in the local economy. It is too early to say exactly what the impact has been, but we know that it has been incredible; it has had a fantastic effect on the footfall in our town and city centres over the past month in particular. It is really important that we have that in place for the footfall alone, but there will be longer-term economic benefits that come from that as well. As I said earlier, people are going back to the high street, including after they have used their card. It is about a short-term economic boost, but it is also about getting interest back in our high streets and showing people what there is on offer. When you go physically in to a shop, you can buy something and take it home that day. There is also customer service. All of that is in one place. The feedback from retail in particular has been fantastic.

Áine Murphy (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

T3. Ms A Murphy asked the Minister for the Economy to confirm whether, following his examination of the Hatch report, a ban on petroleum licensing is among the options that he is considering presenting to the Executive, given that because we are in the midst of a climate crisis and communities will suffer if we do not take action now to reduce our carbon footprint, allowing the creation of an oil and gas industry in the North, in the face of overwhelming evidence of the harm that that industry will do, will have serious consequences in our communities. (AQT 1863/17-22)

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

As I said in a previous answer to, I think, Mr Carroll, the Executive will consider all those issues. I hope to take that paper to the Executive in the coming weeks, and it will be up to us to make a decision collectively. We will publish the report then.

Áine Murphy (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Thank you, Minister. We are now six months on from the completion of the Hatch report and its contents have still not been publicly released. What is the reason for the delay in the public release of the Hatch report?

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

The reason is that I want to take it to Executive colleagues first to get a way forward on a policy decision. At that stage, I will release the report to the public.

Clare Bailey (Green, Belfast South)

T4. Ms Bailey asked the Minister for the Economy whether the leaked copy of what is claimed to be the Hatch report, which has appeared on social media, albeit he will be too busy to have kept an eye on it or to have read it himself, though his departmental officials will have, is the same as the report that is on his desk. (AQT 1864/17-22)

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

I congratulate the Member on her ingenuity in asking that question. However, as I said, the report will be published once the Executive make their decision. I will not comment on any leaks before then.

Clare Bailey (Green, Belfast South)

Thank you. Will the Minister assure the House that absolutely no farmland in Northern Ireland will be given over to the fracking industry?

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

Those will be decisions for the Executive to make. As I said, I hope to bring that paper to the Executive very shortly. A decision will then be made and the report can be released.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Gerry Carroll is not in his seat.

Pam Cameron (DUP, South Antrim)

T7. Mrs Cameron asked the Minister for the Economy for an update on the preparations for the holiday at home voucher scheme. (AQT 1867/17-22)

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

Unfortunately, the holiday at home voucher scheme will now not proceed. I had looked forward to being able to bring that scheme through because I recognise the difficult time that hotels, and the hospitality industry more generally, have had over the past number of months.

I brought the scheme to my Department. It considered the business case, but it was unable to confirm that it offered value for money. However, as it would give a much-needed boost and combine private and public-sector money, I believed that it was worth considering. Therefore, I issued a ministerial direction to my departmental accounting officer, which required the matter to be taken to the Executive or the Minister of Finance. Neither the Executive nor the Department of Finance was willing to approve the scheme. Therefore, unfortunately, it is unable to be progressed.

Pam Cameron (DUP, South Antrim)

I thank the Minister for his answer, although it was very disappointing. What more can be done by the Minister's Department to ensure that support goes to smaller businesses in the tourism industry, such as B&Bs, now that the scheme will not go ahead?

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

That is exactly why I wanted to bring in the scheme. I knew that it would create a significant economic boost. We are seeing the huge impact that the £100 cards in the high street scheme are having on our high streets. The holiday at home voucher scheme would have been a little bit different. It would have been open to everyone, but would have required public financing, as well as people using their money. That would have been a really good way to boost the economy and keep the hospitality sector and hotels, in particular, going during the really difficult months of January, February and March.

I have, however, managed to secure an additional £6·5 million of funding in order to enable Tourism Northern Ireland and Tourism Ireland to undertake significant additional marketing to promote our tourism offer in Great Britain and internationally during the remainder of the financial year. I hope that, to some extent, that will help those businesses that are struggling in that way.

It has been estimated that around £1·6 million of the high street scheme expenditure has been on accommodation providers and tourist attractions, so I hope that, in some way, it has given that little bit of support. However, I am very disappointed that I was not able to secure support for what could have been beneficial measures during a really difficult time.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

T8. Mr McGlone asked the Minister for the Economy whether, in relation to the high street scheme, he has considered an extension to the cut-off date, given that there appear to be, certainly from approaches to his office, quite a few people who have not received their card. (AQT 1868/17-22)

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

My focus right now is on dealing with the applications that are outstanding. As I said in an earlier response, 4,500 cards are due to be sent out today. It is incredible that just a couple of hundred shy of 1·4 million cards have been sent out. It is unfortunate that a very, very small number of people have not received their card, but I am doing everything that I can to make sure that they get their card as soon as possible.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

Thanks very much, Minister, but have you ruled out the possibility of an extension? Some of the people affected are older and maybe have disabilities. It may not be the easiest thing for them to just turn around the expenditure within a day or two, and we are coming very close to the end of the scheme.

Incidentally, Mr Speaker, with your forbearance, I pay tribute to the staff who have been working at the Department, over weekends and the like, to turn the cards around. I also pay tribute to you, Minister, for your cooperation. I could name some of the staff individually, but that would be inappropriate to the rest of the staff who are working very hard in trying to get the expenditure out the door.

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

That is OK; I can take all the credit, if the Member wants. I appreciate the work that MLAs have done in bringing those cases to our attention. It is in our interests to make sure that everybody gets a card. We will be doing everything that we can to push that on. We will have a better idea tomorrow of where we are on the cards that are still outstanding.

Maurice Bradley (DUP, East Londonderry)

T10. Mr M Bradley asked the Minister for the Economy whether, following his recent visit to the Middle East, he has identified any opportunities for Northern Ireland. (AQT 1870/17-22)

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

Yes, absolutely. The visit to Dubai a couple of weeks ago demonstrated a range of opportunities that exist for Northern Ireland. First, there are opportunities to link our further and higher education systems closer together and to make sure that we make the most of the links that we have established in recent years. Secondly, there are huge opportunities for Northern Ireland companies that are exporting not just to the United Arab Emirates (UAE) but across the Middle East. During our visit, we heard again and again of the real opportunities that exist with Saudi Arabia. I was pleased to meet representatives from Saudi Arabia. The outlook is really positive for new opportunities that exist in cyber, AI, fintech, agri-tech and med-tech. There are many, many opportunities for us there, and it is important that we are out in those markets and that we are making the most of those opportunities.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

A brief supplementary question in response, please, from Maurice Bradley.

Maurice Bradley (DUP, East Londonderry)

I thank the Minister for his answer. Will the Minister be giving much financial support, especially to the higher education establishments, in order to attract students from Saudi Arabia?

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

Yes, absolutely. We have fantastic opportunities not only to partner with other further and higher education establishments in the wider Middle East but to get in more international students, particularly from that region. The connections that we are building up in the United Arab Emirates will help to get more of those students here in Northern Ireland.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Members, time for questions to the Department for the Economy is up. Take your ease until we move on to the next item of business, which is questions to the Department of Education.

(Mr Principal Deputy Speaker [Mr Stalford] in the Chair)

Oral Answers to Questions — Education

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

Questions 7, 11 and 13 have been withdrawn.

Sinéad Bradley (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

1. Ms S Bradley asked the Minister of Education, further to a recent court ruling that a grammar school's admissions criteria were unlawful, what assessment her Department has made of the action required following the ruling. (AQO 2852/17-22)

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

On 24 November 2021, the High Court delivered its judgement in a case where some contents of a post-primary school’s admissions criteria for transfer 2021 were challenged by an applicant. In its judgement, the court found that a criterion prioritising boys whose father/guardian attended the school — I should clarify that it is an all-boys' school — was found to be unlawful in that it represented unjustified indirect discrimination contrary to article 18 of the Race Relations (Northern Ireland) Order 1997.

The drawing up of admissions criteria is a matter for individual boards of governors, and my Department cannot compel schools to use specific criteria. My Department can, however, issue guidance to schools on the post-primary admissions process that schools must, by law, have regard to. In the most recent guidance, which issued in November 2021, my Department specifies the criteria that, it is recommended, schools should and should not use. One type of criterion that, it is recommended, schools should not use is any familial criterion beyond that of a sibling currently attending the school. My Department has now written to all post-primary schools to draw to their attention the court's judgement and to advise that such an admissions criterion or any similar criterion should not be used. Given the timing of the judgement, my Department extended the deadline for submission of admissions criteria by post-primary schools to allow boards of governors to review their draft admissions criteria for transfer 2022 if necessary.

Sinéad Bradley (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

What plans does the Minister have to do an evaluation across the system to be prepared for any disruption that that may cause?

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for her question. My Department has written to all the schools that could be affected. I do not anticipate a great deal of disruption, but we have ensured that any lessons learned, particularly in relation to transfer 2021, are reflected in guidance and communication to post-primary schools.

Pat Sheehan (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Last year, there were numerous reports of post-primary schools using admissions criteria that ran counter to the guidance from the Department. Despite the distress and upset caused to children and their parents, there is no sanction or repercussion for schools that do not adhere to the guidance. Is it not time for the guidance to be put on a statutory footing so that our schoolchildren are protected and supported?

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for his question. With regard to sanctions, my Department has written to schools that had quite a number of appeals upheld. We are evaluating the outcome of that. I expect that action will be taken against boards of governors who continue to go against the guidelines that the Department has issued. The Member will know, however, that the setting of admissions criteria is, by law, a matter for schools' boards of governors, and my Department issues advice. While schools must, by law, have regard to that guidance, the setting of admissions criteria remains a matter for schools.

Uniform admissions criteria would mean that, in many instances, the same children were prioritised by all schools. That would create an additional problem that would have to be reflected.

Chris Lyttle (Alliance, Belfast East)

It is regrettable that it required legal action for schools to follow Department of Education guidance. What action is the Education Minister taking to implement the 'A Fair Start' expert panel recommendation that the "systemic inequality" of academic selection for admissions be addressed as a priority?

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

The Member will be aware that issues relating to schools that use transfer as part of their criteria are very much up to the individual schools.

Harry Harvey (DUP, Strangford)

We approach the end of the transfer test for September 2022 admission. Given that some children may not have been able to sit one or more of the tests because of COVID, is the Minister in a position to outline what may happen in that situation?

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for his question. He will be aware that the tests operated by the Post Primary Transfer Consortium (PPTC) are held on one day and there is a supplementary assessment this Saturday for any child who could not sit the first test. The Association for Quality Education Limited (AQE) tests were held over consecutive Saturdays, and it is therefore possible that a child who tested positive for COVID could have missed more than one test. While neither the entrance tests nor the content of schools' admissions criteria are matters for my Department, guidance has issued to schools highlighting the importance of a special provision route in a school's admissions criteria. A special provision route can cater for applicants who have not been able to sit the tests by providing a means of assessing their applications in line with other applications. In a sense, that is no different from other years when illness may have prevented a child from sitting entrance tests. The approach taken will be determined by each school. Parents in that position can see the approach adopted by their preferred schools when the criteria are published on 12 January 2022.

Clare Bailey (Green, Belfast South)

What action can you or your Department take in the case of people appointed as board members of voluntary grammars who are found to be acting unlawfully or not adhering to the Teachers’ Negotiating Committee?

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for her question. Obviously, there must be something behind that question. I am happy to speak to the Member about that.

John Blair (Alliance, South Antrim)

2. Mr Blair asked the Minister of Education for an update on her engagement with the Minister of Justice on the recommendation in the Gillen review ‘Report into the law and procedures in serious sexual offences in Northern Ireland’ for a review of the relationships and sexuality education (RSE) minimum content order. (AQO 2853/17-22)

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

We need to be clear: the Gillen report does not recommend a review of the minimum content on relationships and sexuality education. Indeed, it does not recommend greater legal prescription in the curriculum as an immediate course of action; rather, it calls on my Department to encourage schools to include issues around serious sexual offences in their curriculum. Only if that proves ineffective does it recommend mandating legislation.

My Department is taking forward important work to enhance support, resources and training for schools. A wide range of resources has been developed and is available on the Council for the Curriculum, Examinations and Assessment (CCEA) RSE hub.

That approach is designed to improve confidence and capacity in RSE. Violence against women and girls was specifically prioritised as requiring additional curriculum resources and guidance.

My Department has also been working with the Department of Justice to consider the issues specifically raised in the Gillen review. As a consequence of that work, I have asked my officials to prepare additional guidelines for schools that set out the importance of ensuring that the issues highlighted by the Gillen review, including serious sexual offences and consent, are covered in the curriculum.

In response to concerns about sexual offences mainly against girls, my Department has commissioned the Education and Training Inspectorate (ETI) to carry out an evaluation of the approaches and challenges in delivering effective preventative safeguarding practices in schools. The evaluation will provide an important evidence base on the teaching of RSE in the curriculum and on the issue of violence against girls. We need to build a clear and up-to-date picture of provision in schools to inform the most appropriate next steps.

John Blair (Alliance, South Antrim)

I thank the Minister for her answer, particularly the priority given to the reference to the serious issue of violence against women and girls. In the light of that, has the Minister met the Justice Minister, or is there a plan to do so, and, if so, when might it take place?

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for his question. The Justice Minister met my predecessor, Peter Weir, earlier this year. As a consequence, close work has continued between officials, particularly those on the education and awareness working group. I am happy to meet the Justice Minister as that work progresses. As the Member will know, my Department has undertaken considerable work alongside and in conjunction with the Department of Justice.

Robin Newton (DUP, Belfast East)

The question that has been asked is a serious one, and it requires wide consultation. What consultation have the Minister or her departmental officials had with the Churches on the matter?

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for his question. My Department consults a broad range of groups on all aspects of policy. In November 2020, CCEA set up an RSE task and finish group with representatives from my Department, the Evangelical Alliance, Christian Action Research and Education (CARE), Love for Life, the Christian Institute, the Association of Baptist Churches and the Elim group of churches to carry out specific engagement with Christian Churches on the RSE hub project. The group's aim is to ensure that a Christian perspective is developed, promoted and shared on the hub.

Nicola Brogan (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

I am deeply concerned about the delay in taking forward the recommendation for a review of the RSE minimum content order. Children and young people deserve RSE that is fact-based, inclusive and age-appropriate. We should see it being consistent and mandatory across schools. When are we likely to see progress on the issue?

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for her question. As I said in my main response, Gillen raises important issues for my Department and, indeed, for other Departments. My Department is working to address those issues. It is worth noting that none of the recommendations in Mr Justice Gillen's report refers to amendments to the minimum content order. As the Member will be aware, there are issues around being prescriptive on a number of those things. What we need to do, however, is ensure that our teachers are given the ability to have appropriate resources and to develop their confidence and competence. My Department has not been found wanting in that regard. It has been working through a number of programmes to give effect to the recommendations of Sir Justice Gillen's review. As I said, we have been liaising with the Department of Justice. We have been working closely with schools and CCEA to ensure that appropriate resource is made available to teachers. The Marshall report on child sexual exploitation was published in 2014; in fact, I contributed to that report at the time. We have been working closely with CCEA to develop the hub and to make sure that there are appropriate resources in place.

Cathal Boylan (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

3. Mr Boylan asked the Minister of Education for her assessment of the effectiveness of the current COVID-19 guidance in school settings in relation to close contacts. (AQO 2854/17-22)

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

My Department’s guidance seeks to balance the need to ensure a safe environment with the need for children to access face-to-face teaching. I have therefore been led by public health advice on COVID mitigations in schools. On contact tracing in schools, we have moved on considerably from the start of the school year, when large numbers of pupils had to self-isolate as close contacts. That caused disruption in schools, with large numbers of children missing school and increased pressure on principals.

In his open letter on 9 September, the Chief Medical Officer (CMO) explained that it was the right time for the Public Health Agency (PHA) to lead on contact tracing in schools and to use a more targeted approach to the identification of pupil close contacts. The more targeted approach taken by the PHA in identifying close contacts in school has resulted in improved attendance figures in schools. The PHA leading on contact tracing has reduced the burden on teachers and school leaders, who are no longer required to have a role in contact tracing.

I understand the concerns that some Members of the House and parents have expressed around the current approach to contact tracing. It was not an easy decision. However, I believe it was right that the Minister of Health and I accepted the professional advice of the Chief Medical Officer on the issue. As a result, it has significantly reduced the disruption for pupils, parents and schools. I recognise that the current high number of COVID cases, both in the community and in schools, has been very challenging for schools. At present, many schools are experiencing difficulties with teacher absenteeism and the availability of substitute teachers as a consequence of that.

Cathal Boylan (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Minister for her answer. The Executive have made it clear that we need to refocus and redouble our efforts to bring COVID infections under control and avoid further restrictions. Obviously, our school communities have a role to play in that. However, many school leaders feel that they are not receiving adequate support. What further measures will the Minister take to ensure the safety of our pupils, their families and school staff?

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for his question. I do not underestimate the pressure on schools and the families who have been affected. However, the Executive have been clear that we have to make sure that our young people maximise the number of days that they are in school. The long-term impacts on their education and their mental and emotional well-being are incredibly important, and we need to be mindful of that.

There are mitigations specified in my Department's guidance to schools. Obviously, a range of mitigations will have to be put in place at school level to reflect the individual circumstances of each school. The guidance allows school leaders to be flexible in how they manage COVID risks in their school, and that builds on the learning that has been gained over the course of the pandemic. Schools are encouraged to take a cautious and a risk-based approach to the operation of their school.

In August, the Executive decided that post-primary pupils should continue to wear face coverings, and, obviously, that is based on public health advice and continues to apply. There will also be asymptomatic testing programmes for post-primary, special schools and all school staff. The PHA vaccination programme, as you will be aware, continues to roll out to those aged 12 and over. Schools are also advised to maximise ventilation where possible. The Education Authority (EA) is supporting schools that identify issues with that, including the provision of CO2 monitors. Schools are also encouraged to maintain pupils in consistent groups were possible and to promote good hand and respiratory hygiene practices. Schools are encouraged to facilitate social distancing.

My Department has also issued guidance to schools about remote learning and has allowed them the flexibility to do that. Employing authorities are working closely with schools that are experiencing staffing difficulties to provide additional help and make sure that they have appropriate teaching cover where available. We are mindful of all that and are being responsive to schools when they require assistance.

Diane Dodds (DUP, Upper Bann)

We will all agree with the Minister that it is of the highest priority to keep all of our young people in school, not just for their education but for their emotional health and well-being. In light of the rising number of infections, will the Minister give the House a flavour of the number of pupils who are in attendance at school at the moment?

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for her question. My officials monitor weekly and monthly pupil attendance levels, and that informs all relevant partners of absence trends. It is clear that attendance levels in the current academic year are not as high as we would like. At primary level, overall attendance for September to October was 93·2%. In the same period last year, it was 95·1%, so there is a reduction of 1·9. At post-primary level for the same period, overall attendance was 91% this year, compared with 93·1% for the same period last year, which is a 2·1% reduction. Whilst COVID obviously impacts attendance levels, it is not the only factor. On the basis of the weekly attendance figures for the week up to 22 November, COVID-19 absences accounted for 1·9%; pupils learning from home and therefore present accounted for 1·2%; and all other absences, including authorised and unauthorised absences, accounted for 8·8% of the total. From that data, we can conclude that, while COVID is a factor, it is not by any means the only factor at play.

Paula Bradshaw (Alliance, Belfast South)

Minister, there is a lot of rumour and speculation that you will have a circuit breaker coming up to Christmas. Can you confirm or deny that?

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for her question. It was mooted in August, before school started back, that there would be a circuit breaker at Halloween. That did not happen. There have been press queries and statements around that. There are no plans for mass closure or the use of a circuit breaker in schools at this point. The Executive's decision on COVID responses in schools has been and will continue to be guided by the medical and scientific evidence. You will be mindful that there was a statement made on behalf of the Executive last Thursday that reiterated that position in relation to schools.

I am aware of the harm caused to children and young people by school closures. It is in all of our interests that we continue to provide access to classroom-based teaching for all pupils. As a society, whilst we were conscious of watching out for the health service, we need to be mindful of watching out for our schools and ensuring that the behaviour that we have outside of the classroom is reflected in that and that we protect our schools by how we behave in playgrounds and other settings to ensure that schools do not become infected.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

4. Mr Beggs asked the Minister of Education to outline the timescale to build a new school at Abbey Community College, Newtownabbey. (AQO 2855/17-22)

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

Abbey Community College was announced as a major capital works project in June 2014. A business case for the project was approved, with the preferred option being a new build site at Three Mile Water, Newtownabbey. The site is currently owned by Antrim and Newtownabbey Borough Council. The estimated cost for the project is in the region of £34·3 million. That will provide accommodation and outside play facilities for the school, which has an approved enrolment number of 820 pupils.

RIBA stage 2 concept design approval was granted by the Department on 20 October 2021, and stage 3 detailed design is in progress. A planning proposal of application notice (PAN) has been lodged, and a planning pre-application community consultation event took place on 24 November 2021 by webinar. It is anticipated that a full planning application will be lodged early in 2022. It is anticipated that, subject to planning approval being granted and successful site acquisition, construction work on the new build site will commence in 2023. The estimated construction period is 24 months, with construction expected to be completed for the 2025-26 academic year. It is intended that, following the school’s decant to the new building, the existing school building will be demolished. Thereafter, the Education Authority will consider the future use of the site.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

It has been six years since the Abbey Community College opened its doors following the amalgamation of Monkstown Community School and Newtownabbey Community College. Does the Minister agree that amalgamations that follow the area plan, which is designed to improve educational outcomes, particularly for young people who have not been reaching their full attainment, should be better supported and encouraged and not experience such delays? Will she ensure that there will not be any further delays and that, in the future, Carrickfergus Academy will not take such a long time to get to that stage?

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for his question. I agree with him on how the process is. However, we are in a situation in which the amalgamation took place a considerable time ago — back in 2014 — and, as a consequence, it has taken a considerable time. I understand that challenges were presented in identifying a suitable site that provided sufficient space to accommodate the accommodation that was required plus outdoor play facilities. A number of site searches had to be conducted. It followed that a business case was required to test options, and it took several months to complete the business case.

I genuinely do not disagree with the Member when he talks about the time that is required, particularly for amalgamations. I have had those discussions with officials, because similar schools, not only in East Antrim but across Northern Ireland, have found themselves in the same position. Development proposals (DPs) are brought forward, a certain carrot is presented by the prospect of a new school, and it can take many years for that to come to fruition. Certainly, pupils who are in the school at the time of a DP being proposed are unlikely to see the benefits of the new school. I agree with the Member on that, and I think that the system needs to be refined in order to reflect that.

Stewart Dickson (Alliance, East Antrim)

I thank my colleague from East Antrim for raising those important issues about Abbey Community College and Carrickfergus Academy.

Minister, while there is a general and important welcome of the planning application for the new Abbey Community College, concern has been raised with me by constituents about the potential loss of a statutory Education Authority youth provision in the existing school building. There is one in the existing school building, but none is planned for the new school building —.

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

Will the Member come to his question?

Stewart Dickson (Alliance, East Antrim)

Will the Minister outline the plans to deliver the statutory youth provision in the area that may be lost as a result of the demolition of the old school building?

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for his question. I assume that he refers to the relocation of the Bridge Youth Centre. I understand that the EA youth capital team is considering options for the relocation of that. As it currently operates in the Abbey Community College, a technical feasibility report to identify options and costs for the relocation of the club has been commenced by the EA, and, following its completion, a full business case also needs to be completed to consider and approve the preferred option and anticipated project costs.

For the Member's information, controlled youth capital is a separate funding stream from the controlled schools funding stream, but I understand that proposals for the youth centre at the Doagh Road site may have implications for other providers in the area, and that will also need to be taken into consideration.

Gerry Kelly (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

The Minister will be aware that Coláiste Feirste in west Belfast is hugely oversubscribed. She is probably also aware, given that she mentioned sign-ups to enrolment, that there is a huge list to get into the school. In light of our statutory duty to encourage and facilitate Irish-medium education, will the Minister detail where we are with the development of an additional campus for Coláiste Feirste?

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for his question. I understand that there are pressures on the current site and that a capital works programme for additional classrooms is out for tender.

Although I do not have the detail, I understand that my officials have been working very closely for quite some time with the sectoral representatives to identify and examine potential sites and various options in north Belfast and the wider Newtownabbey area. I can assure the Member that work will continue to examine the feasibility of the sites that have been identified and that my officials will look at other options that are brought to their attention. I am very mindful of my duties, as are my officials.

George Robinson (DUP, East Londonderry)

After her recent visit to Limavady High School, does the Minister have any update on the school's new sports hall?

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for his question. Unfortunately, I do not have an update on that. I am happy to come back to the Member on that.

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

All politics is local.

Stephen Dunne (DUP, North Down)

5. Mr Dunne asked the Minister of Education for an update on the roll-out of the Safer Schools NI app. (AQO 2856/17-22)

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

The Safer Schools Northern Ireland app is a one-stop shop, digital library of age-appropriate safeguarding resources for teachers, parents, carers and children and young people. I formally launched the app on 9 November 2021, and in the short time that has elapsed since then, some 50% of schools have now been registered and have access to their new Safer Schools NI app.

The app provides schools with access to contemporary, credible and relevant online safety guidance and alerts. It is helping schools to navigate online challenges, and it is offering advice on how parents and carers can make online devices safer for their children. In cases where school staff encounter online abuse, having access to the Safer Schools NI app, and to the professionals who provide it, will enable up-to-date support to be given to schools quickly. Helping our children and young people to stay safe in the digital world has never been more important. I encourage all schools to register for the app, if they have not done so already, and strongly encourage school staff, parents, carers and pupils to download the app. By doing so, we can help our school communities to be safer online.

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

I am afraid that that is the conclusion of this element of Question Time. We now move to topical questions, and the first person on my list is Ms Paula Bradshaw.

Paula Bradshaw (Alliance, Belfast South)

T1. Ms Bradshaw asked the Minister of Education to advise what schools should do if a CO2 monitor shows a red light, particularly because a constituent who contacted her said that when that happened in a school recently and the school asked for guidance on what it should do, none was available. (AQT 1871/17-22)

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for her question, which gets into technical detail. I advise the school to contact the EA for support. If that support does not come freely enough, I am happy to follow up on the Member's behalf with the school.

Paula Bradshaw (Alliance, Belfast South)

Thank you, Minister. The school said that when it asked for guidance, there was none. My supplementary question relates to high efficiency particulate air (HEPA) filters. Are you going to purchase those for schools as well, just to purify the air?

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for her question. As she is aware, my Department secured £2 million in the October monitoring round for the purchase of CO2 monitors and other ventilation works. I have had conversations with my officials and the EA about filtration units. They are assessing each school as the request comes in. While opinion is divided as to whether those units do what they say they do, the focus will probably primarily be on those rooms that do not have windows. On my visits to schools, I have witnessed more and more storerooms being used as classrooms, particularly for the Engage programme and for counselling, and so on. There are many more rooms that may require something like those units. However, EA is responding to those situations on a case-by-case basis. I draw attention to the fact that although the EA has 10,000 CO2 monitors, only 45 schools have requested them and only 400 have been distributed. I encourage schools that need the monitors to put in a request, because we do have them.

Ciara Ferguson (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

T2. Ms Ferguson asked the Minister of Education for an update on her plans to ensure that schools have access to adequate substitute cover, given that she will be aware of reports that up to 20% of schools have experienced at least partial closure, often owing to staff shortages, with school leaders being left in an increasingly weak position and finding it difficult to access substitute cover. (AQT 1872/17-22)

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for her question. The employing authorities are working closely with schools to address that issue. The Northern Ireland Substitute Teacher Register (NISTR) has between 7,000 and 8,000 teachers registered. However, there are challenges in that maybe 3,000 of them are on longer-term or temporary contracts. It is incumbent on schools and the supply teacher to ensure that NISTR is notified if they are in employment, because it creates a challenge for principals when they have to sit at the last minute ringing around 70 to 100 individuals to see whether they are available to come into their schools.

As I said in a previous response, in the EA's emergency resourcing team, a designated named officer for human resources works closely with schools to try to address the issue. I have looked at other suggested options to see if we could enhance the register. We have looked at the options of student teachers, retired teachers, staff in the Education and Training Inspectorate and the EA, and volunteers. Last year, the Department put out a call for volunteers who could supervise in schools, and there were 1,000 applicants. In fact, I applied to do holiday cover if it was required. We have been looking at various options. Some of the options are a bit more limited, particularly that of student teachers, who have had their own training disrupted or may already be in workplaces. The flexibility to second them is a challenge.

Ciara Ferguson (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

Thank you, Minister. I welcome the fact that there is some plan in place and that you are trying to exhaust a range of measures. Hopefully, that will turn the situation around. At the heart of the issue is the needs of children and young people who have to experience yet another term of unsettledness and disrupted learning. Given that some will have exams, too, it will probably be a difficult time. How does the Minister intend to support exam candidates in the context of the huge disruption that they have experienced to date?

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for her question. My priority is for examinations to take place in this academic year. I am very mindful that A-level students are going into their first public examinations, as they did not have the experience of GCSEs or ASs. That, in itself, means that it is an incredibly anxious for them, never mind the challenges that there are as COVID is still with us.

A series of exams ran between 22 November and 2 December. CCEA will look at some of the data coming back from schools on young people who missed those examinations, and will be able to see the reasons why they did not turn up. There will be options to take those modules again later in the year, particularly in February and during the summer series. We will work alongside schools to assist pupils who missed exams at this point in the year.

Very early on, before the summer break, we made announcements to take account of the potential for disruptions to exams this year. Learners will be permitted to omit units of assessment, which will reduce the overall assessment. We have put in place other mitigations and methods of assistance, particularly for GCSE maths. An Engage programme focused on that. We are keeping an eye on what is going on. Any further contingency arrangements that are required will be put in place.

Cara Hunter (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

T3. Ms Hunter asked the Minister of Education whether she will commit, today, to meet the Justice Minister to discuss vital and crucial issues that affect our young people, given that in the most-recent Question Time to the Minister of Justice, Minister Long stated that although she would like to work closely with the Minister and her Department on sexual consent education and wider aspects of RSE, she was regretful about the Minister’s level of engagement, albeit she met your predecessor, Minister Weir. (AQT 1873/17-22)

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for her question. As I said in my response to Mr Blair, I am committed to ensuring that work is done to protect women and prevent violence against women, and particularly exploitation of young girls. I have no issue with meeting the Justice Minister, but, as I said in my earlier answer, our officials are working very closely together and the Department is progressing that to ensure that resources and so on are in place in order to assist teachers in raising awareness in schools.

Cara Hunter (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

Thank you, Minister, for your answer. Can you provide a timeline for the review of consent and of wider RSE in our curriculum?

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for her question. That is moving on, and it has been moving on at pace. I do not have a particular timeline, but I am happy to come back to the Member on that. As information comes to the Department, things evolve, and it is very much a moving feast, but I am content to come back to the Member on the main tenet of the work that we are doing.

Robbie Butler (UUP, Lagan Valley)

T4. Mr Butler asked the Minister of Education what steps she is taking to ensure that equal access is a reality for children at all educational facilities, given that she will be aware of the very successful first Disabled People's Parliament that was held in the Chamber on Friday 3 December, at which the contributors raised many challenges for MLAs as legislators, with Christine and Lilia McClements raising the issue of equal access to public services. (AQT 1874/17-22)

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for his question. Unfortunately, I have not been able to see the footage from the parliament yet, but I intend to watch it. Disability Discrimination Act (DDA) pupil-specific minor works are a priority for my Department. We have challenging budgets, but that is a priority, and we see that throughout our schools. We need to raise awareness in schools and make sure that all pupils have access to facilities, and I am happy to work with any school in order to provide that.

Robbie Butler (UUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Minister for her answer, and I encourage her to watch the video. It is very good, and lots of challenges were raised. What work can the Department and you, Minister, do in order to ensure that the voices of those parents and children that have that user experience are heard and that whatever they tell us is actioned?