Northern Ireland Assembly, 13 September 2021

230 contributions from 58 members. The official report.

Assembly Business

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Before we commence, I advise the Assembly that I have received letters of resignation from Ms Martina Anderson and Ms Karen Mullan as Members of the Assembly for the Foyle constituency.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I have been informed by the Chief Electoral Officer that Ms Ciara Ferguson has been returned as a Member of the Assembly for the Foyle constituency to fill the vacancy resulting from the resignation of Ms Anderson. I have also been informed by the Chief Electoral Officer that Mr Pádraig Delargy has been returned as a Member of the Assembly for the Foyle constituency to fill the vacancy resulting from the resignation of Ms Mullan.

This morning, Ciara Ferguson and Pádraig Delargy signed the undertaking and the Roll of Membership and entered their designation in my presence and that of the Clerk of the Assembly. They have now taken their seats, and I welcome them to the Assembly and wish them every success.

Matter of the Day

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Ms Nichola Mallon has been given leave to make a statement on the death of Pat Hume, which fulfils the criteria set out in Standing Order 24. If other Members wish to be called, they should rise in their places and continue to do so. All Members who are called will have up to three minutes to speak on the subject. I remind Members that interventions are not permitted and that I will not take any points of order, on this or any other matter, until the item of business has finished.

Nichola Mallon (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

It is a sorry privilege for me today, on behalf of the SDLP, to lead tributes to one of my, my party and very many people's genuine heroes, Pat Hume. Pat's sudden, sad passing on Thursday 2 September, just one year and one month after her beloved John, shook us all. It felt like the end of a hugely significant era, because, in truth, that is just what it was. There will never again be another Pat Hume or another John Hume or another partnership quite like theirs, but we should be eternally grateful to and for both of them and all they achieved together for all of us.

In the days since Pat left us, we have had time to gather our thoughts, and, today, we reflect on a truly remarkable, resilient, radiant Derry woman, a quiet patriot who was a profile in courage and, as Mark Durkan said, an "alchemist of optimism".

We also celebrate Pat, the deeply loved mother, grandmother, great-grandmother, sister, aunt and friend. I send the sympathy and solidarity of everyone in the SDLP to all the Humes. The loss that we feel pales next to yours, but I hope that you have drawn some comfort from the outpourings of love expressed in the very many beautiful tributes that have been paid. The COVID pandemic has robbed us all of so much, but, in a sense, its restrictions placed Pat and John back at the heart of the Hume family, giving them a few precious, private days by the shore of Lough Foyle to say their goodbyes and to begin to grieve.

The Pat Hume whom I knew was always so wonderfully warm. To be in her company was to know that she was genuinely interested in you. She made everyone whom she met feel special, and that is one of the characteristics that made her such a special human being. Among the many tributes that poured in, one person tweeted that Pat had taught his brother in primary school and that, although he loved his mother very much, he wanted Pat to adopt him. Anyone who really knew Pat will know exactly what he meant.

From her teaching career to the earliest days of the Credit Union, through the civil rights movement to the Good Friday Agreement, and on to her advocacy for Troubles victims, Pat Hume always cared deeply about people and worked tirelessly for them. Her compassion for others was best summed up by Father Paul Farren when he noted: "Your problem became hers". That is exactly how she ran John's Derry constituency service, taking great care of everyone who came through the door, whether of the office or, as often happened, the house in Westend Park. That is why, as we have seen, heard and read in recent days, people loved her.

Pat was not one for a focus on or a fuss about her. I think that she would have blushed and brushed off the title of Derry's first lady that has been bestowed on her. In truth, the only title that she ever needed was the name Pat Hume. That is what meant so much to so many.

She was tough too: she had to be. Think back to the tragic images of one of the Greysteel funerals in 1993 — a truly horrific time in Northern Ireland — and John breaking down in tears as a victim's daughter embraced him and beseeched him to keep working for peace. There by John's side, as ever, was Pat. Imagine the anguish that she must have been feeling or the strength that she had to summon to sustain her husband and herself, but summon it she did, time and time again.

In spite of despair and in the face of danger, Pat lifted John when he was feeling low. It was to Pat whom John always turned first for counsel as he charted a course towards the end of violence, the dawn of peace and a new future for our community. It has often been said, but it merits repeating, that, without Pat Hume, we would not have had the peace process that we got or the agreement that it produced. We must never forget that, and we never will. We can all honour Pat and John Hume by making sure that our society never again sees the injustices that they grew up immersed in and stood up to challenge or the violence that they abhorred and experienced and gave so much to stop. On the peace that they have left us, we have to keep working to fulfil the new Ireland of the Good Friday Agreement in which they both so passionately believed. We have to keep going as they did. I remind everyone in the Chamber that that means upholding our responsibility to work together for everyone, to find solutions and to step up, not walk away.

As I draw my contribution to a close, I will make two more remarks. They are not about Pat Hume but to her. Thank you for the sacrifices that John and you made for peace in our country, for all that you were and for all that you gave, for the pure heart and the brilliant mind and for bringing and being that light in the darkness. Thank you for your passionate belief in the power of non-violence, justice, fairness and equality for all and for the compassion that you showed to so many, especially in Derry. Thank you for inspiring a new SDLP generation. We promise to do all that we can to uphold the values that John and you shared and to deliver the vision that you held out. Thank you, Pat. Rest easy now, back at John's side where you belong.

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

I am speaking on behalf of Sinn Féin at the request of our leasuachtarán, Michelle O'Neill, who is still recovering from COVID. On Michelle and the party's behalf, I offer our deepest condolences to the Hume family on Pat's passing. Pat played a central role in Irish politics since the civil rights movement. She did so alongside John, with John and, at times, leading John and giving him advice through those very difficult years.

Without doubt, she has, as has been said, shown the importance of her role to Irish society and to building and sustaining the peace process and giving this generation of political leaders an opportunity to make a real difference in people's lives. That is a huge testament to her life. At the end, however, the greatest loss is to the Hume family and to Pat and John's children. A mother is the cornerstone of any family home, and Pat was a mother, grandmother and great-grandmother. I extend my deepest sympathies to the Hume family on the loss of Pat.

As has been said, many international tributes have been paid to her, quite rightly so. Many have stepped forward and recognised her role. The least that we can do now as a society is to make sure that we never return to the scenes of the past, that we take that extra step for courage when it is required and that we listen to the type of advice that Pat was giving back in those dark days. I offer my deepest sympathies to the SDLP and to the Hume family.

Gary Middleton (DUP, Foyle)

On behalf of the Democratic Unionist Party, I pass on our deepest sympathies and condolences to the Hume family, their friends, the city that I represent and the SDLP. When I first heard of the passing of Pat Hume, one of the first words that came to my mind was "radiant". Although I have been in politics for only a decade, I had the opportunity and pleasure to meet Pat Hume on many occasions over that time. Although there is no doubt that we may have differed politically, that was irrelevant to Pat Hume because she always had an interest in the individual. I admired her memory because any time we met, she asked about personal things: she would ask about your wife or your newborn son, and those things really meant a lot.

We use the word "radiant", and her radiance was very evident not only in her personality but in the passion that she had for the city that we all love and cherish. I know that in the recent days since Pat's sad passing, the First Minister has been in touch with the Hume family, and a book of condolence has been opened so that everybody can pass on their deepest sympathies and regards to the family.

One of my memories of Pat Hume is sitting beside her at the Sons and Daughters concert when we were awarded the UK City of Culture. It reminded me that Pat was very much a daughter of the city, as was John a son. Thankfully, they are now reunited. Once again, I pass on my deepest sympathies to the SDLP and to the wider Hume family.

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I am speaking on behalf of the Ulster Unionist Party but I also declare an interest as a director of the John and Pat Hume Foundation. On that basis, I extend my condolences to fellow directors, to the Hume family, to the people of Derry and beyond and to Nichola Mallon and her colleagues in the SDLP. I will not pretend that I knew Pat that well; obviously, John was the front man in that particular combination. However, it is clear that while he was away, as he often was, here in Belfast or in Dublin, London, Brussels or Washington, he needed a rock back in Derry. He needed somebody to mind his back, and that person was his wife, Pat, who ran the constituency office in his absence.

In my many years as a broadcast journalist, politicians came into broadcast studios and bemoaned the fact that we were a divided society. They would say, "Woe is me" and "It's the other fellow's fault". However, John and Pat Hume preached something different: the positivity of the fact that, as human beings, we are diverse, and we should tap into that to our mutual benefit.

Of course, Pat Hume did not simply operate in the background. Some years ago, the UK Government, recognising that they had not done enough for the victims and survivors of our conflict, asked Pat, along with Daphne Trimble, to head up a memorial fund that would provide support in recognising that many victims had lost opportunities in education, employment, health and social inclusion. Recently, I read a wonderful newspaper report about their first trip to the United States. It was a 12-hour flight to California, and there they were, in the spotlight for the first time and on stage within an hour of their arrival. In that week, they raised an enormous amount of money for the victims and survivors of our conflict.

The Ulster Unionist Party has this credo: country first, party second, individual third. If you substitute "people" for "country" — people first, party second, individual third — you know all you need to know about Pat and John Hume. We are losing a golden generation. We can do nothing about our common mortality, but we can commit to not letting the legacy go. If you think of the challenges faced by Pat and John Hume and by Daphne and David Trimble and of the challenges that we face today, you can only conclude that we have it pretty easy. Perhaps part of that legacy will be to use this untimely death as timely encouragement that we all must do better.

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

I rise on behalf of the Alliance Party to pass on my condolences to Pat's family, friends and party colleagues and to take the opportunity to pay tribute to Pat.

In a previous life, I was a member of the SDLP, and I got to know Pat. We were canvassing for the 1998 elections for the first sitting of the Assembly. Pat had quite a lot on her plate that day. John was in another part of the country canvassing, and she was out in Derry helping the campaign. The couple of things that struck me from that time were her total and utter dedication to peace and to her family. A lasting tribute to her are the achievements that she and John managed to deliver. She was proud to show me the social housing that had been delivered in the city of Derry and to tell me about the credit union and the benefits that it had offered to the people of Derry. As soon as we had finished canvassing, Pat went straight to the supermarket to sort out that evening's dinner for the family. There was complete dedication to peace and to her family.

Yesterday, I took the opportunity to listen to an interview that she did with Miriam O'Callaghan on 22 November 2015. That brought real brightness and clarity to her devotion to John through thick and thin and to her complete and undivided focus on achieving peace for this country. Following her passing, President Michael D Higgins described Pat's life as:

"one of total commitment to community"

and "to the possibilities of peace". The greatest thing we can all do is refocus on that and participate in and give credit to the work of the John and Pat Hume Foundation, which is an important initiative.

In closing, I will say that the one quotation that summarises the relationship between Pat and John was John saying — he said this a number of times, and I remember him saying it — that "I'm the parcel, and Pat delivers me". Did she not deliver peace for Ireland? Thank you.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

I did not have the opportunity to know Pat Hume as others did. I did, though, meet her in the European Parliament on a number of occasions, when she accompanied her husband. Certainly, those encounters chime with what has been said in the House about her personal qualities. I therefore very much associate myself with the condolences that have been expressed, first and foremost to the Hume family. The role of a mother and a grandmother is so pivotal in any family that there is a particular void when they pass. I also express condolences to Pat Hume's political family. There is no doubt that they, too, are suffering the loss of someone whom they very deeply respected and valued.

Pádraig Delargy (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

As one of two new Sinn Féin MLAs for the Foyle constituency, I register my personal sympathies and the sympathies of Derry Sinn Féin on the death of Pat Hume. Pat was a next-door neighbour of ours for over 20 years. I will always remember her as a kind and generous person and a very good family friend.

Mark Durkan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

I begin by wishing our retiring MLAs and constituency colleagues, Karen Mullan and Martina Anderson, well and welcoming their replacements, with whom I look forward to working on behalf of the people of Foyle and beyond.

The Hume family will be touched by and grateful for the kind words from around the Chamber today, as they have been by the well wishes from across the globe over the past couple of weeks. Pat was something else. Many words have been spoken and written about her over the past couple of weeks by world leaders and, even more significantly and importantly for Pat, ordinary men and women in the street. Many anecdotes have been recounted that illustrate just what a wonderful person she was. However, those tributes, even in their totality, do not come close to capturing just what an amazing lady Pat Hume was.

Several years ago, the 'Belfast Telegraph' did a wee series of light-hearted interviews with MLAs that asked which three people, dead or alive, they would invite to a dinner party. One of my guests — in fact, my guest of honour — was Pat Hume. She is world renowned for her empathy, but Pat was every bit as entertaining as she was empathetic. What a lady. The best tribute that we can all pay to Pat Hume is to be more like her and to treat each other and everyone with respect and genuine care. Ní bheidh a leithéid arís ann.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I express my personal condolences to the SDLP, first of all, and to Pat and John's family. I concur with all the comments made by all our contributors today. It is obvious from listening to all the tributes that have been paid globally, as has been said, to Pat Hume that Pat was both a lady and a leader in her own right. Rest in peace, Pat Hume.

Members' Statements

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

As this is a new item of business, I will provide a brief outline of how Members' Statements are to be managed at a plenary sitting. If Members wish to be called to make a statement, they should indicate that by rising in their place. Members who are called will have up to three minutes in which to make their statement. Any Member whose statement is not compliant with the provisions of Standing Order 24A will be asked to resume their seat. Standing Orders provide that, when selecting a Member to make a statement, I shall have regard to the balance of opinion in the Assembly. Therefore, I shall ensure that, in any period set aside for this business, I select Members from a range of parties. However, it is unavoidable that there will be occasions when it will not be possible in the time available to select all Members who wish to make a statement, and, as with all items of business, it is not in order to challenge the selection. I will seek to ensure that, over time, all Members who wish to make a statement have a fair opportunity to do so. Members should further note that statements will not be subject to debate or questioning, interventions will not be permitted, and I will not take points of order on the statement or any other matter until the item of business has finished.

I have spoken to the Principal Deputy Speaker and both Deputy Speakers. We are all at one in thinking that we will manage this as we go on and see how it works out. Obviously, it has been set in Standing Orders and approved by the Assembly. We will try to manage it to the best of our ability in the fairest way possible. As I said, we will continue to review the outworking of the Standing Order and its application to make sure that all Members are treated fairly and equally.

If all that is clear, we will begin.

Linda Dillon (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Before I speak, as a very proud South Armagh woman and equally proud representative of East Tyrone, to congratulate our Tyrone All-Ireland winners, I wish to convey my condolences to the Hume family.

The GAA is a very close family. Right across the Thirty-two Counties, few homes will not have had an eye to the All-Ireland on Saturday. Whether you supported Tyrone or Mayo, you saw on that field young men who played the shirt off their back to entertain all of us. They are a credit to their county, their clubs and to all the volunteers who work in the GAA all year long, train the under-age teams, go out to the fields and pitches on very difficult days, get on with it, and take youngsters all over the county and the country. To those volunteers, I pay special tribute because All-Ireland finals do not happen without them.

I pay special tribute to Paudie Hampsey. He is my neighbour, related to me through marriage and he captained the Tyrone team. He is a very modest young man, but he led that team to an All-Ireland final and won it. We are very proud of him. His club, Coalisland Fianna Oileán an Ghuail, is extremely proud of him, as the clubs of all those who played on Saturday are proud of their players.

Whilst this is all celebratory, I cannot let this moment pass without mentioning the fact that the BBC completely ignored that there were three Ulster teams in All-Ireland finals over the weekend. I accept that there is a broadcast rights issue, but the BBC has a responsibility. All the volunteers and players I mentioned are licence payers. They pay fees to the BBC. They pay the BBC wages.

It is time that the BBC sat down with RTÉ and the GAA and found a way to ensure that every GAA supporter can see our games on BBC. The All-Ireland final should be a protected game, so that everybody right across this island, from whatever community or background they come, is able to see the GAA finals, because there is nothing like it in this country or — I would argue — in the world. Not many sports can fill a stadium with 80,000 people, and amateur sports at that. It is a very proud thing, for us as Gaels, that we can do that.

As I say, we are a family who support each other through difficult days. The GAA has done that throughout the pandemic. We need to pay tribute to the whole GAA, and to my own county of Tyrone in particular, for the work that it has done and the efforts that it has made in the community throughout the pandemic.

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

Mr Speaker, I thank you for undertaking this initiative. It will be a useful opportunity, hopefully, for Members to raise issues for which, perhaps, an Adjournment debate would be too long and a question for urgent oral answer might not be called.

I raise the issue of the destruction of the built heritage of the city of Belfast. One of the city's best features is its built heritage. From the Georgian era, we have Clifton House and May Street Presbyterian Church. From the Victorian era, there is the Lanyon Building at Queen's and the Custom House. Belfast City Hall is an Edwardian building. We sit in a great example of a pre-World War II building. In the more modern era, the Waterfront Hall and Titanic Belfast are signature building projects of this city.

Red-brick streetscape — I nearly got that out — is a uniquely Belfast feature, as are city trees. One of the examples in my constituency is at Ravenhill Avenue. Associated with such streetscape and city trees is granite curbing, which has been in place in Ravenhill Avenue for generations, yet the Department for Infrastructure has seen fit to tear out that curbing and replace it with something of no architectural merit whatever, in the form of concrete. What is the carbon footprint of Mourne-hewn granite curbing that has been there for generations in comparison with that of concrete, which will have to be replaced, probably, once every 10 years?

Another unique feature of the city that you and I both live in is that you will find ex-servicemen's houses around the place. They were built for veterans returning from the First World War. Lloyd George talked about homes fit for heroes. Off Ravenhill Avenue, as the name would suggest, there are various streets containing the name Earl Haig, which were named after Field Marshal Haig. Similar wanton destruction has taken place there, with granite kerbstones that have been in place for generations ripped out and replaced with grey concrete.

The question, sir, is this: what sort of a city do we want to live in? Do we want Belfast to continue to have pride in itself and in its architecture, or do we wish our city to become a mass of glass, steel and concrete? I hope that that is not the direction in which government policy is going, but that has been the lived experience of my constituents in Ravenhill Avenue and Earl Haig. We need to preserve our built heritage, not replace it with grey, bland concrete.

Mark Durkan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

I rise to call on Minister Hargey not only to oppose the UK Government's plan to withdraw the £20 universal credit uplift but to plan and prepare to protect people here should the Tories persist with that punitive policy.

The SDLP has always been critical of universal credit. We voted against the Welfare Reform Bill when others here rubber-stamped it. Our opposition has been vindicated. Every week, I am sure, all our offices help people to navigate the complex system and, sadly, often have to direct desperate people to food banks for support during the cruel five-week wait for their first payment.

The £20 uplift was a welcome, albeit surprising, move by the Tories to provide a safety net to prevent people falling further into poverty as a consequence of the pandemic. Now Boris Johnson seems determined to revert to type. The consequence of that will be catastrophic, and it will hit harder here than anywhere else. Families and individuals will be plunged into poverty. If they needed that help 18 months ago, they sure as hell need it now. We have seen living costs spiral, be it the cost of heating a home or the cost of feeding a family. Rising property values have led to huge hikes in rents. People are at breaking point. They cannot afford to lose £1,000 a year, and we cannot afford for them to lose it either.

The cut is not only cruel; it is completely short-sighted. What will be the cost of removing that lifeline to health, education and homelessness? What will be the cost to people? What will be the impact of taking £55 million out of our economy over the next six months?

It is not just an issue that affects the poor or "scroungers", as the Tories so cruelly label those who are reliant on support. Around a third of claimants are working. We need business organisations to wake up and speak up. The impact on local businesses will be dire and will cost jobs, forcing more people on to benefits.

Minister Hargey has written to DWP to oppose the cut. We welcome that, but she must do more to protect people here. What COVID money has not been spent? What money for welfare mitigations will be unspent as there is no sign of them yet? What is the Minister going to do? Let us hope that it is a lot more than to write a letter.

We are a devolved Government. DFC has welfare powers again, after some parties here handed them over to the Tories to hurt more vulnerable people here. I implore Minister Hargey to use those powers to protect people here if the cut cannot be derailed at Westminster, where her party will not even go to vote against it.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

I rise to acknowledge the 20th anniversary on Saturday of the heinous attack on the United States that resulted in the deaths of close to 3,000 innocent people in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania and, rightly, for us all to reflect on the effect that that day has had.

For many of us ex-servicemen and women and for those whose families have been drawn into the conflicts afterwards, in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere, that event and the precipitous and ill-timed withdrawal from Kabul and elsewhere has created considerable anguish and disquiet amongst our veterans community. I know from personal experience that it has resurfaced memories and feelings that bring sadness and not a little anger to the fore.

I commend the work of all those in the veterans community and the Veterans Commissioner, Mr Danny Kinahan. I also highlight the many helplines and levels of support that are out there for us all. I encourage the ex-service community to use them.

I want to reflect on another effect of those horrific events on 9/11 and remarks that were made by Richard Haass at the weekend. He said:

"20 years ago in Dublin & Belfast. A rare good thing to stem from 9/11 was I could credibly argue to SF/PIRA leaders that the era of Americans (even their supporters) excusing their terrorism had just ended. Decommissioning follow [sic] on quickly."

It is unfortunate that it took an attack of mass terrorism to achieve that recognition amongst some in the Irish-American community, but the recognition that terrorism, from no matter what source, is fundamentally wrong was made clear to the republican movement and the IRA and Sinn Féin in particular. It is another example of how pointless and nugatory terrorism is. That, in a democratic society, there is no role in any way for guns, bombs and terror is a lesson that, regrettably, some still need to learn.

Stewart Dickson (Alliance, East Antrim)

I want to address the opportunity for Members to make statements in the Chamber. I believe passionately in the democracy that has been devolved to Northern Ireland and in the Assembly and the ability of Members to speak on behalf of their constituents. However, priority in Assembly business should be given to debating Bills, listening to and dealing with Executive business, dealing with Committees and dealing with Adjournment debates, which come up on a constituency basis and allow MLAs, representing their constituencies to debate local issues. I welcome the opportunity to make a statement, and all that I have heard this morning has been excellent. I do not dissent from any of the views expressed in the Chamber — I add my and my party's congratulations to Tyrone on their win on Saturday — but I ask that the Assembly invites the Business Committee to revisit the timing of the statements. In other jurisdictions where they take place, they happen at the end of the business day, after the opportunity has been given to Members to deal with the key priorities of democracy, which, in the Assembly, are debating Bills and Assembly business and working with the Executive to deal with the business that they bring in front of us.

I by no means wish to diminish the statements, but their timing is, perhaps, out of kilter. The press will take the opportunity to listen to what we say in this Members' half hour, and I do not want to diminish that. However, it should happen at the end of our business day, rather than at the beginning, because what we should do is set the tone for business through our Business Committee, our scrutiny of Bills and our democratic representation of the people who elect us to come here. I invite the Speaker and the Business Committee to revisit the timing of the statements. However, in no way am I diminishing the opportunity for Members to have such discussions.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Saturday certainly was a remarkable sporting spectacle. We saw unbelievable skill, great grit and determination and relentless pursuit of the goal. There was heart-stopping excitement for those who watched. Little wonder that there was such frenetic and ecstatic waving of flags in the colours of red, white and blue as Emma Raducanu swept to victory in the US Open. How timely it was that, at the same time, we had the Last Night of the Proms. As 'Land of Hope and Glory' was belting out in the Royal Albert Hall, Emma was delivering hope and glory on the other side of the Atlantic. I congratulate and pay tribute to her.

County Tyrone had its own experience of hope and glory on Saturday, thanks to the very wise decision of Sam Maguire to leave the EU. As Tyrone enjoys its hope and glory, I say that that was a wise move by Sam Maguire: well done in that regard.

That brings me to my primary topic: Brexit. I want to make it abundantly clear in the House that tinkering with the Union-dismantling protocol, extending grace periods — doing all those cosmetic things — will not change the fundamental objection to that obnoxious protocol. Whatever changes are made — I note that the vigorous implementers have toned down their foolhardy demands and are talking about tinkering etc — the fundamental test of all of that is whether Northern Ireland is still left in a foreign single market for goods subject to a foreign customs code and a foreign VAT regime, overseen by foreign laws and adjudicated on by a foreign court. If that is so, any such change is useless in removing the obscenity that is the protocol and does nothing to render it acceptable. What needs to be done —

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

The Member's time is up.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

— is for the EU to surrender its sovereignty —

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

The Member's time is up.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

— over Northern Ireland back to the United Kingdom.

Paul Frew (DUP, North Antrim)

Mr Speaker, you may not know and the House may not know that, for the first time in our history, an event will take place this Friday 17 September in Ormeau Park, Belfast that will refuse entry to people solely on the grounds that they are not vaccinated against COVID. The Department of Health and the Department for Communities are funding and supporting the event with public money of £75,000.

Deep concern, which I share, has been expressed to me about the human rights implications of the stipulation that tickets for the free event are available only to those who have had a vaccination. There are real fears that that represents active discrimination against those who are unable or unwilling to receive the vaccine due to age, medical exemptions or reasons of conscience. In light of that, there is an onus on the Minister of Health and the Minister for Communities to explain the rationale for the allocation of funding to the event and to restate their commitment to treat equally the personal freedoms that we all should enjoy in society, regardless of vaccination status.

The Minister for Communities and the Minister of Health should outline the criteria and the communications plan used to award £75,000 of funding to the event. They should also outline for the House and the public the risk assessments that have been undertaken by the Departments when awarding funding and support to the event, considering that anyone who has and is suffering from COVID at the time of the event can attend it and spread the virus, as long as they have been vaccinated. That is deeply concerning for human rights, and the two Ministers involved — the Minister of Health and the Minister for Communities — should come before the House and make a statement on this issue of grave concern to many of my constituents and the wider population of Northern Ireland.

Colm Gildernew (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I raise the issue of the importance of the sustainability of these institutions in the context of the ongoing public health situation that we are dealing with and the threat to collapse the Assembly from the DUP leader, Jeffrey Donaldson.

We are in the midst of a public health crisis. In many ways, we are at the height of that crisis. Yesterday, health trusts appealed for staff to come in from their leave to help man our hospitals and other health services. We have other health trusts asking people to use other services rather than turn up at emergency departments, given the pressures that they are experiencing. Those staff, who are being brought in from much-needed breaks, have been fighting and struggling with the pandemic for over 20 months. They do not have the option of walking away. Rather, they are walking into our hospitals. They are donning PPE and going in to fight to save lives and protect health.

The threat to collapse the Assembly is the outworking of the DUP's delivery of a Brexit that everyone, including many people here, stated was not in our interests. It is the outworking of internal politics in the DUP and, indeed, the fact that it has been spooked by others outside the party into knee-jerk reactions and threats of this nature. People are also asking whether this is a vanity project by the DUP leader in order to create a vehicle to get him into the Assembly. If that is the case, will one of the gentlemen opposite make way for his leader and allow him into the Assembly without creating the chaos, uncertainty and inertia that will flow from this threat?

A Cheann Comhairle agus a chairde, we are heading into one of the most difficult winter periods that we are ever likely to see in our health service. Our hospitals are currently operating at 104%, and we have not yet seen the full impact of winter flu and all the other pressures that exist and that we know will come to bear. Patients, staff and the public deserve better from the Assembly and political leaders here. Political leadership is needed now more than it has ever been. Many people believe that collapsing this institution at this time would be irresponsible, reckless and unforgivable. I ask the party opposite to take care and to consider those matters at this time.

Chris Lyttle (Alliance, Belfast East)

I understand that Members' Statements are to be on a single item. On behalf of the Alliance Party, I therefore add my congratulations to everyone involved with the All-Ireland champions, Tyrone, on winning the county's fourth GAA All-Ireland football title. That achievement is a testament to the hard work and dedication of the new management team in their first season in charge, particularly in the context of COVID and the obstacles that the pandemic has placed in the way of getting a special squad of players to the standard required to achieve that historic victory. It is a testament to the value of sport in our community and to the hours of volunteer coaching, sporting sacrifice and endeavour, despite the obstacles put in our way. It demonstrates the value of youth development for any sport, with the backbone of this fantastic Tyrone squad being the under-21 team that Brian and Feargal coached to All-Ireland victory in 2015.

It is a great victory for Ulster sport and finally ends Dublin's dominance. Great credit and commiseration must go to Mayo on its performance in the final and its victory over Dublin in the semi-final.

Congratulations to everyone in Tyrone. You have raised the hope and morale of a county and a province at an extremely difficult and challenging time. Enjoy your celebrations.

Gerry Carroll (People Before Profit Alliance, Belfast West)

Saturday marked 20 years since the tragedy of the 11 September Twin Towers attacks, in which almost 3,000 people lost their lives in an unspeakable tragedy.

My thoughts and sympathies are with all those who lost loved ones on that terrible day. The Twin Towers attacks is one of those moments that we all remember: we remember the events of that day and what happened in the years that followed. In response to a terrible tragedy in New York, the neocons and new Labour, with its many backers — including some in the House — set the Middle East ablaze and created many more 9/11s in Kabul, Kandahar, Baghdad and Basra. The families who lost loved ones in New York deserve justice for what happened on that day. The British and American establishments were never interested in justice for those people, however. Despite most of the attackers being Saudi, the focus right away for Bush and the warmongers was on Afghanistan and, eventually, Iraq. Incidentally, the US had opportunities to get access to bin Laden. It refused to accept or discuss them, opting instead to flex its muscles and revenge bomb the wrong people. The response from warmongers to brutal terrorism was to launch their own war on terror that brought misery, death, destruction and terror to many millions. It created a spiral of state surveillance, huge military spending and a politically racist system where people who were Muslim or deemed to be Muslim were treated with disdain, fear and suspicion. That was the logical outcome of a war on terror that needed to dehumanise the people whom it viewed as collateral damage to carry out its murder sprees. How else can you justify the mass bombings of weddings, towns and cities if you do not portray your victims as uncivilised?

Back in the early 2000s, I joined millions of people across the world and hundreds of thousands on this island to oppose the launching of the war on Iraq. That war was based on a pack of lies: no weapons of mass destruction were ever found. Sadly, the prediction that many made at the time that a war of this size and scale would beget more violence and terror has proven to be correct. ISIS and its offshoots did not exist in Iraq and other countries; the US and UK's actions created them.

The 20-year lesson from the war on terror should be that "liberal" or "humanitarian" intervention did not and cannot work. Neither the United States nor the UK has a God-given right to be the policeman of the world, overthrowing governments and states that they do not like. For now, Joe Biden has announced the end of operations across the world to remake other countries. I would like to believe that, but, frankly, I do not hold out much hope. The US has over 800 military bases across the globe, and it is constantly locking horns with China. If we are really to learn a lesson from 20 years, it should be that wars are a waste — a waste of lives, money and resources. Let us make this next decade one in which those banging the drum for war are reminded of the tragedy that war brings.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

I listened attentively as Mr Allister weaved his way through numerous issues. I thought for a moment that he had been lobbied by Mayo to raise the result of the All-Ireland with the EU-UK Joint Committee.

As someone who is married to a very proud Ardboe woman, I offer my sincere congratulations to the entire Tyrone team, its management, its membership, all the clubs throughout the county that contributed to the team and, indeed, to Ardboe, where two of the panel come from. I know a number of the members very well indeed, and I offer my sincerest congratulations to them on a wonderful victory to bring home the All-Ireland.

Very briefly, I have to add that the Ardboe parish is also tinged with some sadness, given the accident over the weekend that has left a family grieving today. It was a great victory, with great input from people from the lough shore and from the Tyrone team, but I record my sympathies to the Canavan and McLernon families on the loss of their son. Arís, mo chomhghairdeas le foireann Thír Eoghain.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Before I conclude Members' Statements, I think that it would be remiss if we did not also send hearty comhghairdeas to the County Antrim camógs, who also took home an All-Ireland this weekend. Well done, County Antrim fosta.

Assembly Business

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

As with similar motions, this will be treated as a business motion, and there will be no debate.

Resolved:

That Ms Paula Bradshaw replace Ms Kellie Armstrong as a member of the Business Committee. — [Mr Muir.]

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

As with similar motions, this will be treated as a business motion, and there will be no debate.

Resolved:

That Ms Áine Murphy replace Ms Sinéad Ennis as a member of the Committee for Communities. — [Mr O'Dowd.]

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Members, please take your ease for a moment or two as we prepare for the next item.

(Mr Principal Deputy Speaker [Mr Stalford] in the Chair)

Executive Committee Business

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

I beg to move

That the Second Stage of the Justice (Sexual Offences and Trafficking Victims) Bill [NIA 29/17-22] be agreed.

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

The Second Stage of the Justice (Sexual Offences and Trafficking Victims) Bill has been moved. In accordance with convention, the Business Committee has not allocated a time limit to the debate. I call the Minister of Justice, Mrs Naomi Long, to open the debate on the Bill.

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

I am pleased to bring the Justice (Sexual Offences and Trafficking Victims) Bill before the Assembly. On appointment as Minister of Justice in January 2020, I set out an ambitious legislative programme to reform our justice system. My intention was and remains to provide better outcomes for all those who rely on the justice system. Our role as politicians is to identify problems and deficiencies that face our constituents and, crucially, to seek to deliver solutions and remedies where possible. The Bill is but another step forward in that reform programme — a programme that has been delivered with pace and commitment. I believe that no other Department has brought forward five such separate and substantive Bills in such a short space of time. I owe my officials and the Office of the Legislative Counsel (OLC) a huge debt of gratitude for working with me to deliver. The development and delivery of that substantial programme is a concrete demonstration of my and their continued commitment to protect the most vulnerable through better targeted and more focused legislation. Such a challenging programme is, however, possible only with the full cooperation of the Assembly and the Committee, to which I hope the Bill be remitted today. I thank them for their cooperation, particularly in scheduling this business a week earlier than was originally anticipated.

The Bill is, as Members are aware, significantly shorter than I intended, consisting now of 22 clauses over four Parts. I expect the elements of my original Bill that I had to drop to secure this Bill's introduction will feature in a new miscellaneous provisions Bill early in the next mandate if non-legislative solutions cannot be identified in the interim. That work is ongoing.

The Justice (Sexual Offences and Trafficking Victims) Bill has two key principles: A, to enhance public safety by implementing certain elements of the report of the Gillen review covering serious sexual offence cases and a review of the law on child sexual exploitation and sexual offences against children; and B, to improve services for victims of trafficking and exploitation.

Chapter 1 is primarily concerned with the creation of new sexual offences and penalties, with the first provisions capturing the highly intrusive behaviours known as upskirting and downblousing. A person found guilty of either offence under those provisions will be liable for a sentence of imprisonment of up to six months or a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum of £5,000 or both on summary conviction in a Magistrates' Court. For a conviction on indictment in the Crown Court, the penalty is increased to a sentence of imprisonment of up to two years.

The next provisions in that Part of the Bill are designed to better protect children from child sexual exploitation. They create four new offences to deal with an adult pretending to be or masquerading as a child and making a communication with a view to sexually grooming a child under 16. The four offences seek to cover all possible angles of communicating with an individual, communicating with a group, communicating with a view to grooming a particular child and communicating with a view to grooming any child under 16. Importantly, the offences are not limited to online behaviour. The penalty for each of the new offences is a sentence of imprisonment of up to six months or a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum of £5,000 or both on summary conviction and a sentence of imprisonment of up to two years for a conviction on indictment.

The remaining provisions in Chapter 1 of Part 1 amend the Sexual Offences (Northern Ireland) Order 2008. They include removing and replacing existing references to "child prostitution" and "child pornography". Such terminology is outdated and may be taken as implying that children are somehow responsible for or willing participants in their own abuse, which is clearly not the case. The Department believes that amending the legislative references will help to raise awareness of the status of children as victims of exploitation rather than being willing participants or otherwise complicit in abuse that is perpetrated by others.

We are also widening the scope of the definition of images relevant to specific offences in the 2008 Order to include live streaming. That will ensure that the law keeps up with developments in modern technology. It also helps to avoid any possible ambiguity in the interpretation of what constitutes an offence.

The Bill also makes a minor amendment to bring the article 22A offence of sexual communication with a child into the scope of extraterritorial arrangements to provide further protection to children travelling outside the jurisdiction. That simply corrects an omission in current law, where that provision should have been included.

Finally, the chapter also makes a minor adjustment to the current article 64A offence of paying for the sexual services of a person. It clarifies the elements that constitute an offence to avoid any ambiguity in its interpretation.

Chapter 2 of Part 1 brings forward provisions to implement four recommendations from Sir John Gillen's report in the law on procedures in serious sexual offences in Northern Ireland. First, it extends the current lifelong anonymity of the victim of a sexual offence, providing for their continued anonymity for 25 years after death. Secondly, it provides for the anonymity of the suspect in a sexual offence case up to the point of charge. Where a suspect is not subsequently charged, that anonymity will be protected during their lifetime and for 25 years after their death. Thirdly, it increases the penalty for breach of anonymity from the current penalty — a fine of up to £5,000 on summary conviction — to a sentence of up to six months' imprisonment or a fine of up to £5,000 or both. Fourthly, it excludes the public from hearings of sexual offence cases. Only the complainant, the accused, persons directly involved in the proceedings, a witness while giving evidence, any person required to assist a witness, jury members and bona fide members of the press will be allowed to remain in the court during the hearing of a sexual offence case. The court will retain discretion to permit any other person to remain in the court where it considers it to be in the interests of justice to do so.

Part 2 deals with victim trafficking and exploitation. The provisions extend statutory assistance and support to potential adult victims of slavery, servitude and forced or compulsory labour where there is no element of trafficking. The provision of assistance and support to such potential victims has been in place in Northern Ireland since March 2016 but is not a statutory requirement. Placing the existing arrangements on a statutory footing provides reassurance to victims that the Department is committed to providing support and assistance to those who have been subject to slavery, servitude and forced or compulsory labour.

The provisions in this Part of the Bill also amend an existing requirement to publish a modern slavery and human trafficking strategy from at least once every year to at least once every three years. By their nature, strategies generally set out longer-term objectives, with action or implementation plans recording the milestones set within a financial year. An amendment to enable a strategy to be published at least once in every three years will allow the Department and its partners to focus better on the implementation of actions underpinning the strategic goals and to monitor the progress of relevant contributors. As some objectives span more than one year, that would also have a positive impact on performance management.

Part 3 comprises two relatively minor clauses. The clauses make adjustments to existing legislation to strengthen the effectiveness of the sexual offences prevention order (SOPO) and the violent offences prevention order (VOPO) arrangements. The SOPO provision amends schedule 5 to the Sexual Offences Act 2003 to include the offence of abduction of children in care under article 68 of the Children (Northern Ireland) Order 1995 in the list of specified offences for which a SOPO can be applied. That means that a SOPO could be applied for in respect of persons who present a risk of serious sexual harm where they have been convicted of the offence of abduction of a child in care.

The VOPO provision amends the Justice Act (Northern Ireland) 2015 to remove the statutory six-month time limit within which a civil complaint must normally be made to the court. That will ensure that the behaviour of an offender evidenced more than six months previous to the time when an application is made for a VOPO could be considered by the court.

That concludes my remarks covering the substantive policy content of the Bill at its introduction. However, I would like to take the opportunity to provide Members with a short overview of a small number of amendments on which I have secured Executive agreement to bring forward as the Bill progresses. They are currently at an advanced stage of development for inclusion in the Bill during its passage.

My first amendment is an extension to the Gillen provisions in the Bill relating to the exclusion of the public from hearings of serious sexual offence cases. That will include the Court of Appeal as a setting where the public can be excluded from appeal hearings against conviction or sentence in serious sexual offence cases. The amendment will ensure that the victim's identity can be protected where a relevant case is elevated to the higher court.

There are also three planned amendments covering new policy content, the first of which relates to what is known as the rough-sex defence. For many years, consent to serious harm for sexual gratification has been raised in trials as a defence to serious harm, murder or manslaughter. I intend to make provision to set in legislation the existing common law position that a person cannot lawfully consent to their serious harm for the purpose of sexual gratification. The intended amendment will give effect to my desire to address issues of clarity and consistency regarding the application of the existing provision.

The next new policy amendment relates to what is commonly referred to as "revenge pornography". The new provision will make threats to disclose private sexual photographs and films with intent to cause distress an offence, alongside existing offence provisions relating to the disclosure of such material.

The last of my planned amendments is to change the existing legislation covering an abuse of a position of trust of a child, which is contained in articles 20 through to 31 of the Sexual Offences (Northern Ireland) Order 2008. The amendment will provide greater protection to young people who are in the care of adults in certain non-statutory environments. I had originally intended to develop that proposal for introduction in the next political mandate. However, in response to recent developments in other jurisdictions and a growing number of requests for the Northern Ireland law to be changed, I now consider that that important change should and can be made sooner rather than later. In bringing the proposal forward, my officials have worked closely with the NSPCC to gauge wider views regarding the scope of the amendment. That included holding a joint virtual workshop with the NSPCC at the end of May that involved representatives from a number of key stakeholders. As a result of that engagement and having examined the experience of other jurisdictions further, I intend to extend the current provisions for the abuse of trust of a child. The extension will cover positions of trust held in sports and faith settings, with a delegated power to enable the extension of those settings at a future stage by way of secondary legislation, should that be considered necessary.

The Bill will make our community safer through strengthening existing law and introducing new offences. It will go some way to further protect victims, whose interests remain at the heart of the criminal justice system. The Bill contains important provisions that will introduce into the justice system more safeguards that will complement those in my Domestic Abuse and Civil Proceedings Act (Northern Ireland) 2021 and the Protection from Stalking Bill, which is currently with the Committee. Taken collectively, the provisions in the Bill will introduce valuable additional protections for the most vulnerable in our community.

While some question the value of devolution and the worth of the Assembly, this legislation is yet more evidence that progress can be delivered when the Assembly functions as it should. It is also an example of the opportunities that are forfeited when it does not. I look forward to working closely with the Justice Committee and my Assembly colleagues to ensure that the provisions of the Bill are enacted within this mandate. I commend the Bill to the House.

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Minister for bringing the Second Stage of the Bill to the House. I am pleased to speak as Chairman of the Committee for Justice. The Committee welcomes the Bill. We look forward to working with the key stakeholders and the Department during the Bill's scrutiny stage in the Committee.

As the Minister has outlined, the Bill consists of 22 clauses and is divided into three Parts. The Committee fully supports the aims of improving the operation and effectiveness of the justice system and the principles of enhancing public safety and improving services for victims of trafficking and exploitation. Chapter 1 and Part 1 cover a range of provisions being brought forward following a consultation on a review of the law on child sexual exploitation and aim to strengthen the law in that area. The Committee considered the results of the consultation in November 2020, supported the proposals to bring forward the legislative provisions in the Bill and discussed with officials other legislative proposals that had received support during the consultation but that the Department did not intend to progress in this mandate due to time and resource constraints. The Committee noted that there would be an opportunity to consider some of those other proposals further in the context of the Bill. I am sure that Members will do the same, assuming that, as I expect, the Bill passes its Second Stage today.

The strengthening of the law on sexual offending to better protect children from sexual exploitation and, in particular, the aim to address such behaviour at an earlier stage are welcome and, sadly, necessary. The Criminal Justice Inspection Northern Ireland (CJINI) report in June 2020 on child sexual exploitation highlighted that such exploitation is happening in towns, cities and rural communities across Northern Ireland and involves children who live with their parents and children in care. That is the stark reality, Members, and we in the House must endeavour to do all that we can to prevent it.

The Committee also supports the inclusion of the new offences to capture behaviours known as upskirting and downblousing. Such behaviour is, unfortunately, becoming more prevalent and is frequently used to coerce, control or humiliate. The fact that Northern Ireland will be the first part of the United Kingdom to legislate for downblousing sends a message that such behaviour, together with upskirting, has no place in our society and provides the PSNI and the Public Prosecution Service (PPS) with the tools to prosecute individuals.

The Bill will also implement four of the recommendations in Sir John Gillen's report on his review of the law and procedures on sexual offences in Northern Ireland. As Sir John outlined, deep concerns about how serious sexual offences are prosecuted and determined in Northern Ireland have been expressed for a number of years. Such offences are largely under-reported, the attrition rates are high, and successful prosecutions are pitifully few. Committee members are well acquainted with the views of victims of such offences: the criminal justice system lets them down, and those who go through it often feel that they have been re-traumatised by the experience.

That situation is totally unacceptable and must be addressed. Providing victims with confidence in the system, and ensuring that they are treated with dignity and respect during the criminal process, in no way impacts on the accused receiving a fair trial. It is simply the right thing to do, and the proposed changes are long overdue.

Implementation of Sir John Gillen's recommendations must continue to be a priority. The Committee is committed to ensuring that they are implemented in full. It considers progress regularly, with the next update due from the Department at the end of September. The Committee, therefore, welcomes the inclusion of Part 1, chapter 2, which includes clauses to extend the current lifelong anonymity of the victim of a sexual offence, provide for the anonymity of the suspect in a sexual offence case up to the point of charge, and exclude the public from hearings of serious sexual offence cases.

Parts 2 and 3 cover trafficking and exploitation, and prevention orders. Departmental officials advised the Committee that these clauses make minor adjustments to the existing provisions and aim to improve effectiveness. Clause 16 places on a statutory footing the current practice of providing support and assistance to potential victims of slavery or servitude, or of forced or compulsory labour, where there is no element of trafficking. That is to be welcomed.

The Department advised the Committee of the Minister's intention to bring forward amendments on four issues, which I thank the Minister for outlining in the House today. As part of the evidence that the Committee received on the Domestic Abuse and Civil Proceedings Bill, concerns were raised that the mitigation of rough sex gone wrong appeared to be increasingly used to explain a death. The Committee noted at the time that amendments had been made to the Westminster Domestic Abuse Bill to ensure that such a defence was outlawed in cases of serious injury or death. The Committee welcomes the proposal for amendments to address this.

The Committee also welcomes the proposal to bring forward amendments to widen the scope of, and strengthen, the current law on abuse of trust. There was widespread support for that in the responses to the Department's consultation. The Committee was disappointed that the Department originally did not intend to legislate for it in this mandate.

The Committee received an oral briefing from departmental officials on the principles of the Justice (Sexual Offences and Trafficking Victims) Bill at its meeting of 9 September 2021. During the briefing, members explored a range of issues, including the concerns expressed by legal advisers regarding making anonymity of a victim of a sexual offence permanent after death; how the Department decided on the 25-year period now included at clause 4; the operational concerns relating to sexual offences prevention orders and violent offences prevention orders that prompted the provisions to strengthen their effectiveness; the rationale for the provisions that amend article 64A of the Sexual Offences (Northern Ireland) Order 2008 relating to the offence of paying for the sexual services of a person, and whether they change the intention of the original legislation; the particular effect of clause 16; and the extent to which the proposed amendments will widen the abuse of trust law.

Members also discussed in detail the new offences of upskirting and downblousing, including whether they are framed appropriately and are workable. I am sure that the Committee will want to explore all these issues, and others, further as we move into the Bill's Committee Stage, assuming its success in the House today.

The Bill was introduced into the Assembly on 5 July. It was originally to be introduced in March. While it may not include all the provisions originally intended by the Department, it is still a very important piece of legislation that the Committee wants to see go through the Assembly before the end of this mandate. For that reason, the Committee agreed, on an exceptional basis, to issue a call for written evidence on the Bill following its introduction into the Assembly and prior to the Second Stage taking place today. I assure the House and the Minister that this was in no way to pre-empt the views of the House but was simply a pragmatic decision, given the very limited time available to us, to give the Bill a chance of completing the legislative process before the mandate ends. Despite already dealing with a very heavy legislative programme, the Committee is determined to play its part in progressing the Bill, assuming its successful passage today. That will not, however, preclude us from undertaking robust and detailed scrutiny of the provisions in the Bill and proposed amendments to it, with the assistance of the key stakeholders, to ensure that the legislation is comprehensive, workable and as effective as possible. The issues covered in the Bill can have a profound and lasting impact on victims and cannot be missed or minimised in any way. That is why the legislation is needed, and on behalf of the Committee for Justice I support the principles of the Bill.

I will make a few comments as a Member of the House and a member of my party. I am glad to see that the first salvo has been fired in the election campaign: the Minister did not miss the opportunity to set out how she, as Minister, and her Department had brought forward more legislation than any other Minister. It is up to other Ministers to see whether they can match that in the time that is available to them. Does the Minister want to intervene?

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

I assure the Member that, of course, that is not an electoral point, because I also pay tribute to the Committee, which, if it discharges its duties, will place itself well above any other Committee in managing legislation. It is a win-win situation for us all.

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Minister for the intervention and clarification on that point; her comments are noted.

I turn to the provisions of the Bill, particularly clauses 16 and 17. There has been much media attention on human trafficking in Northern Ireland in recent months, with revelations that the numbers of potential victims entering the national referral mechanism (NRM) increased by 750%. I want Members to take that percentage and remember that, behind it, there are individuals. These are real people. A 750% increase between 2012 and 2020: that is deeply disturbing, especially when we remember that not all existing victims are identified and offered the NRM and not all victims who are identified agree to enter the national referral mechanism.

Moreover, in considering that challenge, we must always remember that we are not talking about just statistics but, as I said, real people. We are talking about someone's son or daughter, and even more troubling is the fact that some of the victims are children. Of the 128 referrals in 2020, 20 were children. Five of those children were trafficked for sexual exploitation. As parents and grandparents, we can only but think of the horror that has been inflicted on those children. That is happening here in Northern Ireland, and it is sad that we have to say in the House that it is happening today in Northern Ireland in our towns and our neighbourhoods.

Northern Ireland has a strong history of taking a stand for victims of modern slavery. The timely passing of the Human Trafficking and Exploitation (Criminal Justice and Support for Victims) Act (Northern Ireland) 2015 represented the first comprehensive piece of legislation on this subject to be passed in the United Kingdom. Moreover, the Act goes beyond the current provisions made in England and Wales by enshrining support for adult victims of human trafficking in law and providing for the introduction of independent guardians for unaccompanied migrant and trafficked children. That piece of legislation is a great credit to former Assembly Member and good friend of mine, Lord Morrow. He introduced the Bill in the House and it was passed into law. Six years later, we need to act again to build on the good foundation that has been set and enhance the existing protections. In that context, I wholeheartedly support clause 16, which will amend section 18 of the 2015 Act by extending the statutory assistance and support provided to potential victims of human trafficking to victims of servitude or forced labour where there has been no element of trafficking. That constitutes a very welcome, humane and logical development.

I am also content with clause 17, which will amend section 12 of the 2015 Act and introduces a change from having an annual modern slavery strategy to having one on a three-year cycle. I would, however, like the Department of Justice to produce an annual progress report so that we can track progress during the three-year period as well as between such periods, and I trust that the Minister will give consideration to that.

Before I move on from the modern slavery provisions in the Bill, it is important to acknowledge an important support provision that is not in the Bill. In that regard, I congratulate my friend, colleague and Chief Whip, Joanne Bunting, who is a Member of the Assembly for East Belfast, on securing a critical debate on 13 October last year to mark Anti-Slavery Day. She used that debate to highlight the indefensible lack of statutory support for victims of modern slavery across the UK from the moment of their conclusive grounds decision when they leave the NRM. It is extraordinary that statutory support is provided to potential victims but denied to actual victims, when our moral responsibility is clearly greater to those who have been confirmed to have been subjected to slavery. In that context, I put on record my thanks to the Free For Good campaign, the coalition of 27 anti-trafficking bodies campaigning for the provision of 12-month statutory support to facilitate the recovery of confirmed victims of modern slavery, and I hope that we will have the opportunity to debate amendments that address that shortfall.

In conclusion, I place on record my appreciation and thanks to the Minister and her officials for the work that has been done to date. A considerable amount of work has been done in order to have the Second Stage debate in the House today. The Minister outlined that not all the legislative provisions that she would have liked to bring to the House — namely, in a miscellaneous provisions Bill — have been brought, but I trust that, as an Assembly, we will focus our time on issues that are paramount. That is not to say that other issues are not important, but, given the challenge with our time frame, I trust that the House will give the Bill the support that it deserves. Along with the Minister, I look forward to hearing the contributions of others so that we will have some sense of how the Bill will ultimately conclude when it completes its legislative passage through the Assembly.

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

I call the Deputy Chair of the Justice Committee, Ms Sinéad Ennis.

Sinéad Ennis (Sinn Féin, South Down)

Go raibh maith agat, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker. As you said, I have, in recent weeks, taken on the role and that of Sinn Féin spokesperson for justice. I look forward to taking my place on the Committee at its next meeting. If you will indulge me, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker, I want to pay tribute to my predecessor, Linda Dillon, for her work in the role, and I am sure that other members of the Committee will attest to her positive contribution while on the Justice Committee.

Although I am a new member of the Justice Committee, many of the issues that face us are not new to me. I have paid close attention to the great work that has been carried out by my colleagues in Sinn Féin and, indeed, across the Assembly on so many important issues, such as domestic and sexual violence, gender-based violence and other issues of public protection. The Assembly passed the Domestic Abuse and Civil Proceedings Bill earlier this year, which was a landmark achievement, and the hugely important Protection from Stalking Bill is working its way through the legislative process. There has also been other important, ongoing work done, including the Gillen review of serious sexual offences cases, the review of the law on child sexual exploitation and work to tackle domestic and sexual violence, modern slavery and human trafficking.

The Justice (Sexual Offences and Trafficking Victims) Bill is crucial legislation that will allow us to build on all the great ongoing work. I look forward to scrutinising the Bill in the Justice Committee to ensure that it is of the highest standard.

I welcome, as other Members have done, the introduction of the revised Bill to the Assembly. It is long overdue, and it is great to see it finally reach this stage. However, I have to share my disappointment at the serious and wholly unnecessary hurdles that had to be overcome to get us to this point. For months, we heard MLAs from across the political spectrum talk about the importance of passing the former Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill, and four of the five Executive parties supported that Bill when the Minister first tried to introduce it. Yet, one party in the Executive held the Bill hostage for two months and blocked it from being progressed, despite the huge challenges that we face given the short time that remains in the current mandate. The DUP, despite being on record as saying that it had no issue with the content of the Bill as drafted, disgracefully blocked its progression for fear of potential amendments at later stages. That was a shameful derogation of its legislative responsibilities and showed contempt for the democratic process. As a result of that political grandstanding, the previous Bill had to be revised, and some hugely important clauses were pulled out to narrow its scope. Also removed was the option to propose amendments on some really important issues. All of that because one party in the Executive — the DUP — did not like what it was potentially going to see.

Nonetheless, the Bill contains some important clauses that will implement key recommendations from the Gillen review of serious sexual offences cases and the review of the law on child sexual exploitation and sexual offences against children. I am pleased to finally see the introduction of the new offences of upskirting and downblousing. Upskirting involves the taking of a photo or video under a person's clothes without their consent in order to capture images of their body or underwear. It violates a person's right to privacy and bodily integrity and can be a deeply invasive, traumatic and distressing experience. The evolution of technology and the wide availability of smartphones have meant that the law has not kept pace with the increasing frequency of the offences, and victims have been let down. Image-based sexual abuse is just as invasive and horrific as other forms of sexual abuse, and it is right that we take it just as seriously. We need to get it right, however, so I look forward to working with the Justice Committee to ensure that there are no loopholes in the offence, such as those that exist in other jurisdictions.

Other key features of the Bill include protecting children from grooming and other forms of sexual offences and abuse, including creating a new offence of adults masquerading as children online, ensuring that the law on sexual exploitation is kept up to date with modern technology by including live streaming and replacing references to child prostitution and child pornography in law.

Taken together with the other hugely important provisions of the Bill, of which there are too many to go into, today is a really positive step forward, finally, in the implementation of the Bill. I am happy to support its passage to the next stage.

Sinéad Bradley (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

As the SDLP member of the Justice Committee, I support the passing of this stage of the Justice (Sexual Offences and Trafficking Victims) Bill. In anticipation of the Bill's passage through the House, I look forward to fully scrutinising and adding value to it.

I, too, put on record my thanks to the outgoing Deputy Chairperson, Linda Dillon, with whom I and other members worked very well in an environment that was conducive to that good work. Whilst we may have differed on certain things, we did so in a respectful way, and I wish Linda well in her new position. I also thank the Chair of the Committee for accurately summarising the Committee's position on the Bill at this time and facilitating an early meeting with officials from the Department to start to get into the detail of the Bill. The Bill is quite broad in what it attempts to do, but every element is critical.

Without going into any of the detail at this stage, I place it on record that the SDLP very much supports the principles of the Bil, but, at the outset, we want to flag up some concerns we have about operational reality. That is exactly what the legislative process is: it is about scrutinising and hearing from those who are engaged on the ground in the delivery of any legislation to make sure it is fit for purpose. As an example of that, I cite the introduction, which we very much welcome, of the offences of upskirting and downblousing. Quite rightly, the Bill defines what exactly those are, and the descriptors are quite good and appear to be fulsome. However, proposed new article 71A(3) talks about the motivation of the person who is operating equipment. It talks about their "obtaining sexual gratification" or "humiliating, alarming or distressing B". Whilst I agree with those descriptors, which accurately pin down what we are trying to achieve, we feel we need to stress-test them to some degree to find out what exactly the evidential proof would be to say that that was the motivation of the person operating the equipment. We will, no doubt, have a chance to work through details like that in the Committee Stage and the clause-by-clause scrutiny.

The other issue, if I may refer to it, is the important one of anonymity and the proposal on the privacy of a victim after death. There is a detailed breakdown of who could make such an application, but I would ask questions about what happens in cases where there is a conflict between eligible applicants. Whilst the applicants are clearly stated, it does not particularly say that there is any sort of hierarchy. There may be conflicting agendas. However, it is important to note that proposed new section 3A(6) says that the court must be satisfied that an application is:

"(a) in the interests of justice, or (b) otherwise in the public interest, to make such a variation or revocation"

of anonymity.

The Bill finally gets to the point of delivering on some of the heavy and important work of the Gillen review, so I welcome the fact that four Gillen recommendations are woven into the Bill.

I will not go into much more detail now, but, again, in expectation that this stage of the Bill will be agreed today, I look forward to working with Committee members in a robust way to scrutinise the details of the Bill and to make sure that it aligns with operational reality. If it does not, it could be a good academic piece of work that does not bring real effect to and change on the ground. I thank the Minister for bringing forward this stage of the Bill today, and I look forward to working with the Committee.

Doug Beattie (UUP, Upper Bann)

I commend the Bill. It is the right Bill at the right time, but there is an awful lot more work that we will all be doing in this regard. Knowing the Justice Committee, I am sure that it will look at the Bill in great detail, and I have every confidence that the Committee will do that.

One of the problems when you talk late on in a debate is that you tend to repeat what everybody else is saying. I do not particularly want to do that, but the Chair has outlined the Bill pretty well, where we stand on it and what we need to do with it. However, I would like to raise a couple of issues that I have concerns over — not necessarily the Bill itself but what is likely to happen and some of the other issues in that regard.

I commend the recommendations of the Gillen review of sexual offences, which are in the Bill. Pre-charge anonymity for defendants is important, as is the continuation of anonymity of complainants for 25 years after death, and the increase in the penalty for a breach of that anonymity sends out a clear message to everybody that they should adhere to what the court has said. The exclusion of the public from serious sexual offence hearings is really important, and I absolutely support it. We all know about the Ulster Rugby rape trial. Never mind the outcome, we all know that people attended the court hearing purely to hear the details for their self-gratification. Some people will say that, by stopping people going into the court, we are not showing justice to be open and transparent, but I wholeheartedly welcome that measure. It is the right thing to do.

On child exploitation and sexual offences against children, we can all agree that children are incredibly vulnerable and we must do all that we can to put laws and protections in place to look after our children. I am concerned about anything that stops us being in a position to do that. Of course, in the Bill, the Minister has laid out provisions to replace legislative references to "child pornography" and "child prostitution", so that we do not make anybody believe that the child is in any way complicit. Those provisions also include live-streamed images, a definition of exploitation for sexual purposes and the creation of the new offence of adults masquerading as children, which is also extremely important. By strengthening that, we will help to protect children.

My genuine concern is that all that will be lost if the Assembly falls. Please think about what we are doing here; think about the long term; think about our children. I do not want the Bill to fall and children to suffer because of something that we as adults can sort out.

There is provision for the creation of the new offences of upskirting and downblousing. That is not a giggle. It is not what kids do for fun and games, saying, "I will just take a quick picture up the skirt or down the blouse". It is not that. It is absolutely humiliating. The sooner we get away from allowing people to think, "I was only having a laugh" or "It was only a bit of banter" or "It was only a giggle", the better. The Bill does that, notwithstanding the very real points that Sinéad raised about finding out people's motivations for doing that. I know, however, that some people do that and say, "Well, I was just having a bit of a laugh".

The amendments to provisions in Northern Ireland regarding human trafficking are also incredibly important. I have spoken previously about human trafficking and told people that I saw the origins of human trafficking in Bosnia and Kosovo. I saw how they farm young girls in warehouses and traffic them across Europe, with some of them ending up here. It is harrowing to see that. Imagine what it is like for them: absolutely and incredibly harrowing. The provision to:

"Extend ... support to ... victims of slavery, servitude or forced or compulsory labour"

is incredibly important. I look forward to seeing the detail of that.

The Minister talked about amendments that she will propose, such as the abolition of the rough sex defence and the extension of existing revenge porn provisions to include the threat of publication. People probably think that that is a throwaway line, but it is not. Just threatening somebody by saying, "If you don't do what I say, I will publish this" is coercion at its absolute worst, so that line is really important. Of course, provisions to widen the scope and to strengthen the laws about the abuse of trust of our elderly, of our young and of those who look to us for support are important.

There is a lot to do on the Bill. We will dig into a lot of stuff, and I have no doubt that there will be many amendments. That is right, and I think that the Minister expects us to delve into her Bill. I would not expect her to want us to do anything other than that. At the end of the process, we must make sure that we have a Bill that works, can be applied and does not just sit on the shelf where nobody can use it because it is too complicated. It is incredibly important. I know that the Chair and the new Deputy Chair will guide our Committee in making sure that we add value to the Bill and make a positive input.

Paula Bradshaw (Alliance, Belfast South)

I warmly welcome the Bill and the fact that we are moving on swiftly with this vital legislation. Much of it updates practice in Northern Ireland in line with that in neighbouring jurisdictions. It is frustrating that, for the reasons outlined by the Minister, the Bill has not been able to do a little more in terms of that alignment, but we welcome what is contained in it.

I turn first to the areas that take Northern Ireland ahead of the rest of the UK. The first, at clause 1, is the criminalisation of downblousing. I sincerely hope, given the contributions that have been made already today, that there is no doubting the merit of establishing that offence. It is not easy to do it in legislation, but it is to be welcomed that Northern Ireland is taking the lead in —.

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

Ms Bradshaw, I am sorry to interrupt you. Would it be possible for you to move the mic a bit closer? Some Members at the other end of the Chamber are finding it difficult to hear your contribution. Thank you.

Paula Bradshaw (Alliance, Belfast South)

No problem. Thank you. Is that a bit better now?

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

Mervyn?

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

Yes.

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

There we go.

Paula Bradshaw (Alliance, Belfast South)

Thank you very much.

I welcome that Northern Ireland is taking the lead in the UK in finding the means to do so. It was criminalised as long ago as 2015 in parts of Australia and other common-law jurisdictions. There has been debate about whether privacy or photography laws would suffice and whether the specific offence was necessary. Legal research this century has demonstrated that specific upskirting or downblousing laws are desirable and necessary to determine indisputably that an offence has been committed. It is likely that other UK jurisdictions will follow Northern Ireland's lead on downblousing in due course.

It is also clear that the 2008 Sexual Offences Order has served a significant purpose in protecting victims but, sadly, is not specific enough for the world in which we live. Practitioners have been clear that there is a serious gap in that Order as regards sexual grooming and that the range of offences outlined in clause 2 will offer significantly enhanced public protection, particularly to children. That will take Northern Ireland ahead of other jurisdictions in the UK, although the Irish Government introduced similar provisions in 2017. It is worth emphasising at that point that that change, in line with many in the Bill, is designed to reduce the incidence of the offence taking place, not just to ease and ensure convictions when it does. The House really should aspire to lead the way more often, particularly when it comes to the victims of such blatant, unpleasant and unsavoury misconduct.

Other areas of the Bill are more about bringing Northern Ireland into line with neighbouring jurisdictions, but they are no less important. One example is the implementation of key aspects of the Marshall report, which is overdue and highly important, as it is primarily about protecting and respecting victims. The changes in terminology brought about by clause 3, for example, are clearly about ensuring not just that the punishment fits the crime but that the crime is properly described and thus the victim properly respected. Clauses 18 and 19 are also specifically about preventative orders.

I also welcome the amendments to the Justice Act, in line with legislation in England and Wales, that ensure that not only the commissioning of the offence but the threat to commit the offence can be adequately tried and thus likely lead to the prevention of more instances of so-called revenge pornography. Again, we should not underestimate how harrowing that can be for victims and how important it is that we do all that we can to deter it. That aspect of the law will need to remain under review to ensure that it works in practice, and I have little doubt that it will merit further consideration in the next mandate.

With regard to the Gillen review and the delivery of justice in serious sexual offences, I draw particular attention to clause 15. It bears repeating that the review concluded that unrestricted access for the public to trials of serious sexual offences deterred, humiliated and intimidated complainants. That is an astonishingly huge failing, particularly given the right to anonymity. The benefit of the clause is to make the process of accessing justice less harrowing for complainants and that of attaining justice less harrowing for victims. No one should be deterred from seeking justice, and we must ensure that the system itself does not act as a deterrent.

I also put on record my appreciation of the hard work of campaigners who work to strengthen legislation around the abuse of positions of trust around 16-to-17-year-olds. Strengthening existing protections for that age group should reduce the overall incidence of sexual exploitation, through effective consultation and targeted legislative intervention. That is exactly what the Chamber should be doing, and I am sure that the provision, if it passes, will be warmly welcomed by those involved in youth sport and community-based activities.

The Minister outlined some of the areas that are not included in the Bill, and that is, naturally, frustrating. However, I hope that I have outlined the importance of what is included in the Bill and that the Chamber will unanimously get behind it to ensure its passage.

Jemma Dolan (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

As a member of the Justice Committee for the last 12 months, I can say that a huge amount of time and energy has been spent in dealing with the issues of domestic and sexual violence, not least with the work that is ongoing to implement the landmark Gillen review of serious sexual offences. That marked a step change in how the criminal justice system deals with sexual violence and treats victims of sex offences. For too long, the criminal justice system has been heavily weighted in favour of the defendant, often at the expense of victims who have suffered trauma and pain unimaginable to many people. The Gillen review and the public events that preceded it represent a point where the system would no longer be tolerated. That is to be welcomed.

I welcome the Bill, which implements some of the key recommendations of the Gillen review, along with other important provisions that will, no doubt, be discussed across the Chamber. The system should be about fairness and rights for the victim and the defendant, and the Justice (Sexual Offences and Trafficking Victims) Bill strikes the correct balance in achieving those objectives.

I echo the comments of my colleague Sinéad Ennis and put on record my frustration and disappointment that the Bill was obstructed in the Executive for so long and that important provisions had to be removed from it to secure its progression. All the while, time is running out to pass the Bill in this mandate.

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

I ask the Member to resume her seat briefly.

I generally allow flexibility and freewheeling debate. However, in their contribution, Members should refer to the content of the Bill, rather than the processes by which we got to be debating it at this point. That would be more in order.

Jemma Dolan (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Thank you.

I too welcome the introduction of new offences of upskirting and downblousing, which will mark the latest step in tackling the growing problem of image-based sexual abuse. Such heinous and deeply traumatic behaviour cannot be tolerated, and the introduction of the offences will go some way towards tackling the problem. It must, however, be accompanied by serious work to improve relationship and sexual education in schools, so that our young people are taught from an early age about the importance of healthy relationships and consent and so that we focus not just on punishing perpetrators but on preventing the crime in the first place.

I welcome the exclusion of the public from all serious sexual offence hearings, which will go a huge way towards supporting victims of sexual crimes during what is already a traumatic experience.

The Justice Minister indicated her intention to propose amendments to the Bill at a later stage, including improving legislation on outlawing revenge porn, widening the existing abuse of trust provisions and provisions for the abolition of the rough sex defence. Those are all policy areas in which my party and I have had a long-standing and keen interest, and we welcome progress on them. Revenge porn is among the most serious incidents of image-based sexual abuse, as are upskirting and downblousing. They are policy areas that demand our full attention and energy. Revenge porn is a disgusting crime and a huge violation of privacy, one that can lead to deep trauma and the devastation of a person's life. I note the Minister's plans to legislate on that area, but, until we see the amendment in writing, it is important that we continue to press home the seriousness of the issue and the urgency required.

Current abuse of trust offences do not provide adequate protection for 17-year-olds who are preyed on or groomed by adults in positions of trust and power. Currently, such protections extend only to those in statutory settings, such as schools. However, children and young people can spend many hours a week with adults in other, non-statutory settings. Such adults might include a sports coach, a faith group leader or a youth club leader. Furthermore, the status quo causes difficulties for sports organisations that tend to operate outside this jurisdiction, such as the GAA, which operates on a provincial basis, including nine Ulster counties, but has to operate two separate safeguarding regimes to protect children. The legal loophole needs to be closed, and protections against grooming and abuse need to be extended to include adults operating in non-statutory settings.

Despite my obvious disappointment about the important provisions that have had to be removed from the Bill, such as those to strengthen the law on bail and remand for children to be more compliant with the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child and to deal with children and young people more appropriately, I welcome the Bill and where it is today.

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

Thank you, Members. Given that it is 1.56 pm and Question Time is due to start at 2.00 pm, I ask the House to takes its ease. When we return to this debate, the next Member to speak will be Mr Peter Weir.

The debate stood suspended.

(Mr Speaker in the Chair)

Oral Answers to Questions — The Executive Office

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I advise Members that I have received correspondence from the deputy First Minister to say that she is unable to attend. Junior Minister Kearney is here on her behalf.

Órlaithí Flynn (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

1. Ms Flynn asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister for an update on the delivery of the headline actions under the Together: Building a United Community (T:BUC) strategy. (AQO 2365/17-22)

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

There has been significant progress in delivering the Together: Building a United Community strategy, with a number of the headline actions being fully achieved. Over 24,000 young people have taken part in T:BUC camps, and five Urban Villages areas have been established. Four shared education campuses have been approved and are progressing. Ten shared neighbourhoods, providing 483 new homes, have been completed. Over 6,000 young people have participated in the Peace IV youth programme. Over 26,000 young people have engaged with the Uniting Communities through Sport and Creativity programme. The number of interface barriers has been reduced by 14. We remain fully committed to the T:BUC strategy, which is demonstrated by the provision of £12 million of Executive funding in the 2021-22 year.

Órlaithí Flynn (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I thank the Minister for his response. He will be aware that, over the summer, there were distressing reports of sectarian attacks and intimidation. There is still the issue of the burning of flags and other emblems on bonfires. What additional steps can the Executive take to tackle sectarianism in all its forms and manifestations?

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Over the summer, incidents happened that should be condemned. They should not have happened. People should be able to celebrate their culture in a way that does not denigrate somebody else's culture. Ultimately, that is what we want to achieve.

The T:BUC approach that we take with young people allows people from different traditions to come together. During the summer, when I was in Limavady with the Roe Valley Residents Association, I had the opportunity to hear at first hand the experiences of young people, some of whom had never actually mixed outside their own community, which may be hard to believe in this day and age. They were able to get a better understanding and appreciation of other people's culture and gained better respect from that. Ultimately, that is the kind of society that we want: one that respects and celebrates difference.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I advise Members that questions 14 and 15 have been withdrawn.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

As I recall, the strategy has been with us for about six years — perhaps even more. In that time, expenditure on it has been something over £100 million. Can the First Minister truly say that there has been success commensurate with that value in that time? When we look at the building a united community strategy, what is the message of the failure — it is no surprise to me — to build a united Executive? Does that not jar with the protestations of success in that project?

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Look at the areas that this scheme transcends. It includes housing, covers education and encourages bringing people together. It is not just about facilitating those conversations; it requires tangible changes to take place. We can look at the five different Urban Villages that will be rejuvenated. I look at the different areas where that will have an impact. Therefore, it is transformative with regard to both the physical infrastructure and the impact that it has also had on people's attitudes where that aspect of the programme has been engaged.

When it comes to the Executive, all that I will say is that, yes, there are some issues that create tension. However, the Executive have been able to make significant progress on a whole range of areas. I appreciate that some are exemplified when it comes to where there is difference, but there are many examples where the Executive have been able to have a united approach and make real, tangible changes to people's lives that are beneficial to everybody in the community.

John Stewart (UUP, East Antrim)

2. Mr Stewart asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister for an update on the policy document 'Moving Forward: The Executive's Pathway Out Of Restrictions'. (AQO 2366/17-22)

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

From March 2021 to date, the Executive have continued to consider proposals for the relaxation of restrictions, as outlined in 'Moving Forward: The Executive's Pathway Out of Restrictions'. The Executive have undertaken multiple reviews of the restrictions, taking decisions on appropriate relaxations as early as conditions allowed, in line with the most up-to-date scientific and medical advice.

Recently, further relaxations have been affected by an increase in the delta variant, which has slowed the rate at which the Executive have been able to ease restrictions. The Executive, however, are committed to retaining restrictions only for as long as is absolutely necessary. The most recently agreed further easing of restrictions came in from Friday 10 September, covering indoor domestic settings, hospitality, music and dancing.

John Stewart (UUP, East Antrim)

I thank the First Minister for his answer. Will he agree that, given the recent disappointing figures for infections and the difficulty in getting some people vaccinated, it is more important than ever to have a joined-up approach and message? Will he also agree that stability of government here is integral to that and to ensuring that the institutions survive, given the pandemic and its impacts? Will he agree that that joint message must not be damaged by solo runs?

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

It is important when it comes to communicating the messages that we do so effectively. We have been able to use a range of platforms to get the message out. I understand that, as we ease restrictions, the public are not always aware of what the current rules are. The Executive have considered all the restrictions that have been made over the past months, interrogated the evidence and, ultimately, reached a position. We keep making the progress that I would like to see us make, but we are cognisant of the fact that transmission is still prevalent out there in the community.

There are pressures on our health service, and everyone needs to take personal responsibility to take the right decisions as we move away, as we have been doing, from regulations to guidance. That requires people to take personal responsibility. They need to be informed about the types of decisions that can help them take that personal responsibility in the interests of protecting not only themselves but other people.

Colin McGrath (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

Will the First Minister explain how that road map can be effectively delivered, given the reckless remarks from his party leader about bringing down the institutions? What message does he have for the businesses, communities and people out there if the message from his party leader is that this place can be brought down and that decisions will not be able to be taken?

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Our party is clear that it wants the Executive to continue to work. We want the Assembly to continue to operate and to take the types of decisions that we are taking. The basis, however, on which we restored the institutions was in 'New Decade, New Approach'. The United Kingdom Government made commitments to unfettered access for Northern Ireland by way of an east-west dimension and to the internal market of the United Kingdom being restored. The fundamentals on which the Executive are formed have to be right. That is why there is now a window of opportunity for the United Kingdom Government and the European Union to make sure that the changes that are needed are made.

We will continue to operate the institutions in good faith when it comes to carrying through decisions on health, education, housing and all the other areas that affect people's lives, but we have to make sure that the fundamental building blocks on which the Executive and the Assembly are based are sound, and that requires action to be taken in the short window of opportunity that now exists.

Ciara Ferguson (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

Will the First Minister confirm that the public health advice will be core to directing and guiding the Executive's future response to the management of the pandemic?

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I welcome the Member to her place and wish her well in her new role.

The Executive consider a number of areas when taking decisions. Those are informed by health advice but also by the economic impact that restrictions can continue to have and by the wider impact on community, society and family. We have seen changes around domestic indoor settings that recognise the need for greater contact within families. The Executive therefore have to consider a number of factors. Health will continue to have a significant role to play, of course, but we take that in the context of other areas that have to be considered by the Executive.

George Robinson (DUP, East Londonderry)

Will the First Minister detail what progress has been made over the summer to relax restrictions and return to a degree of normality after the horrific pandemic that we have all been experiencing?

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Over the summer, the Executive continued to meet regularly. During that time, restrictions were made in 38 individual areas. Currently, we have nine areas left that are dealt with by way of regulation. That has been part of the Executive's approach: changing restrictions, evaluating the impact and then allowing further decisions to be taken. Other jurisdictions held restrictions in place in a comprehensive range of areas and then opened them all up. Where that happened, it led to significant spikes. The Executive's approach to reopening has been cautious because nobody wants to have restrictions brought back in. We are now at a place where we have reduced to a small number the areas where restrictions exist in law. The Executive will meet again on 23 September to take further decisions about the areas that remain.

Sinéad Bradley (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

3. Ms S Bradley asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister to outline the funding required for the implementation of the Executive's COVID-19 recovery plan. (AQO 2367/17-22)

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

The consolidated recovery plan, which was published on 2 August, aims to deliver societal, economic and health recovery. It provides opportunities for collaborative action intended to accelerate recovery over the next 24 months, ensure that the citizen is better off in the short term and address critical challenges that our citizens face today and in the near term. Significant work has been undertaken with all Departments to determine the funding position of the 83 interventions, and that work continues. At this stage, the funding position of 70 of the 83 interventions has been confirmed, with 60 fully funded and 10 partially funded, and work is ongoing to finalise the funding position of the remaining 13.

The Executive's Budget for 2021-22 allocated £1·148 billion for COVID support and recovery. The allocation of a further £316 million was agreed on 20 May. However, funding for those allocations is for a one-year period only with no guarantee of additional COVID money from the UK Treasury for 2021-22. Funding for the 2022-23 year and beyond will not be known until the UK spending review announcement later this year. The recovery plan has been designed to progress interventions over a two-year period to focus attention on immediate priority actions and longer-term interventions that require planning and commencement now.

Sinéad Bradley (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

I welcome the First Minister to his first Question Time. I thank him for his answer so far. Do the priorities have an inbuilt system that monitors growth and anticipated outcomes to allow revision and additional support at any time for those that need it? Is there a system for Ministers to feed into the Executive and bid for that support as and when they need it?

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for welcoming me to my first Executive Office Question Time as First Minister.

The central tenet of this document is its collaborative nature. Departments worked together on it. It is vital that there are adequate oversights. Then, if issues such as the Member outlined arise, they can be identified, and, if additional resource, whether financial or support from other Departments, is required, that can be done. Work is ongoing to develop the appropriate oversight and reporting arrangements, and those will tell us how effective the interventions are in accelerating recovery. It will be a cross-departmental approach to ensure that all aspects of recovery are considered. Regular updates will be provided to the Executive, the first of which will be before the end of this calendar year.

Diane Dodds (DUP, Upper Bann)

The COVID recovery plan encompasses many areas of society, as it should, such as the economy and health. However, many elements of the £300 million that was dedicated to the economic recovery action package were simply for one-year interventions with no further funding.

Will the Minister and the Executive Office ensure that there is continued funding for intervention in the economy, particularly in building skills to take the economy forward and in providing the prosperity that is so crucial to peace in Northern Ireland?

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for her question. I know that the economy is close to her heart given the excellent work that she carried out in her previous role. She will be pleased to know that the document contains 37 interventions that focus on building that sustainable economic development, and we are committed to working together on economic recovery. As the Member will know, having pioneered this when she was Minister, we are preparing to start the voucher scheme, which will help to stimulate economic activity on our high streets and protect jobs.

The education issue is part of the actions and interventions on making sure that, when we look at the need for more apprenticeships, we have a skills-based approach to that in our training colleges. That is all to help our younger people to make sure that they have the appropriate skills to take up the job opportunities that arise. As we emerge from this period of COVID, it is vital that we really seek to address the need for that economic development and ensure that we have the right skills to build upon.

Áine Murphy (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

4. Ms Á Murphy asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister for an update on their plans to welcome Afghan refugees. (AQO 2368/17-22)

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Everyone here will have been moved and, indeed, distressed by the harrowing scenes from Afghanistan. Just as it did for the Syrian refugees, we want Northern Ireland to play its part in responding to this humanitarian crisis, and at their meeting on 6 September, the Executive united in a commitment to do so. We have now written formally to the Prime Minister committing to resettle citizens under the Afghan relocations and assistance policy and the Afghan citizens resettlement scheme. Officials, via the strategic planning group, are working to determine final numbers to be resettled and make preparations to support arrivals as soon as possible.

Áine Murphy (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Will the First Minister outline the steps of the resettlement process and the support available to Afghan refugees?

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

The programme that we will follow has been largely built upon through the Syrian refugee resettlement scheme. The Department for Communities led on that. Indeed, I was the Communities Minister when the first Syrian families came to Northern Ireland. Families came on 25 subsequent occasions and sought refuge here in Northern Ireland. A lot of good work exists. The Department for Communities leads on that, but, obviously, there is support from Health on housing, and collaboration with other Departments takes place. The Department for Communities will be primarily responsible for the schemes.

Stewart Dickson (Alliance, East Antrim)

Minister, will you agree with my condemnation of the actions of a small minority of people who protested in Carrickfergus recently at the presence of refugees there? Will you make it very clear to the House and to everybody who is listening today that Northern Ireland is open and a welcoming place for refugees and that there is no place for people who wish to protest against those who have come from very difficult backgrounds to get to Northern Ireland?

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

The Member raises an important point and one that the Executive have had to consider, given that an increasing number of people are arriving here seeking asylum. There is a range of different measures where assistance is provided, and a number of schemes now exist. There was the Syrian refugee scheme, and there will now be the Afghanistan scheme. There is a Hong Kong scheme. There is quite a number. In the correspondence that the deputy First Minister and I sent, we highlighted to the Prime Minister that it is important that there is equality of treatment for people who require help and assistance and the potential for differentials when it comes to providing support. We recognise the unique circumstances of the people who are seeking refuge here.

Northern Ireland has always been a welcoming place, and when people come here seeking help, they do so having left very tragic circumstances and in distress. It is only right that we provide them with the appropriate support. Obviously, immigration policy is not devolved to here, so it is a matter for the Home Office to determine whether people's request for asylum ultimately leads to them staying here. When they are here, however, it is important that support is provided.

Mark Durkan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

I welcome the First Minister's condemnation of those who protest against the resettlement of refugees here. In earlier answers, he referred to the Syrian refugee resettlement scheme. Will he outline any lessons that were learned from that scheme that can be applied to this one, which will ensure its smooth operation and that its support will get to those who need it most?

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Learning on how to get a better and smoother process was garnered from the experiences of the families who were settling into a community and accessing education and a local GP, for instance. People were then linked up so that they could have contact with people from their own country as well as integrating with local communities. There has been learning from all that, which will shape the way in which the process rolls out for welcoming people from Afghanistan.

Andy Allen (UUP, Belfast East)

5. Mr Allen asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister what engagement they have had with the UK Government on the Armed Forces Bill that has been introduced to Parliament. (AQO 2369/17-22)

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

The deputy First Minister and I, acting jointly, have not engaged directly with the UK Government on that matter. There has been engagement between officials in respect of the technical details of the Bill.

Andy Allen (UUP, Belfast East)

I thank the First Minister for his answer. Will he advise how the Executive Office will ensure that the Armed Forces Bill, when it is finalised and has completed its passage through Westminster, will be implemented in Northern Ireland in the same way as it will be implemented across the United Kingdom? Why has the Executive Office not made a formal appointment to the armed forces covenant reference group, which sets the strategic direction for covenant funding across the UK?

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for that. This is a very important issue. We have 150,000 veterans in Northern Ireland. The military covenant was a commitment in New Decade, New Approach, and the legislation is going through Westminster. It will become law and place a duty on Departments to make sure that the law is covered and that people are getting the services as a consequence of having that additional legal protection in place. We have had the appointment of Mr Kinahan — someone who will be familiar to Mr Allen's party — as the Northern Ireland Veterans Commissioner. He is engaged in representing the needs and concerns of veterans. I will come back to the Member with a specific answer on the body that he mentioned, but it is vital that, as the Bill becomes law and completes its legislative passage through Westminster, the services are provided. There will be a legal responsibility on all Departments to do that.

Harry Harvey (DUP, Strangford)

6. Mr Harvey asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister what engagement has the high street task force had with local councils regarding bids submitted to the UK Levelling Up Fund for town centre regeneration projects. (AQO 2370/17-22)

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Mr Speaker, with your permission, I ask junior Minister Middleton to answer that question.

Gary Middleton (DUP, Foyle)

On 3 March 2021, the UK Government published documentation and application processes for the Levelling Up Fund, with the call for applications closing on 18 June. The UK Levelling Up Fund is managed and directed by the UK Government, which have not engaged with the high street task force or asked for its views to date. Northern Ireland Departments have no role in the promotion or assessment of the Levelling Up Fund, nor have they any control over the objectives or criteria against which applicants will be assessed. To date, the high street task force has not engaged with councils in relation to the Levelling Up Fund, but it will speak to councils and others in the near future as it develops its recommendations on shaping interventions and investments over the coming months.

Harry Harvey (DUP, Strangford)

I thank the junior Minister for his answer. Will he outline what progress has been made through the high street task force to date?

Gary Middleton (DUP, Foyle)

I thank the Member for his supplementary. Restoring the vibrancy of our high streets will take a number of phases over a period of years. Of course, as we have emerged from the lockdown, the immediate priority has been opening high streets and rolling out a COVID recovery strategy. That has been the focus of the Executive and the Executive COVID task force, which is headed by the head of the Civil Service. The high street task force, the latest meeting of which I chaired last week, has a longer-term focus of addressing the fundamental need for the transformation of our high streets in response to societal and economic changes. It is working to bring forward recommendations on priority work areas and potential funding opportunities.

It is very much a long-term project. Transformation will not happen overnight, and significant work has already gone into getting us to this point. Significant work has already been carried out by the Executive Office and the Department for Communities to set up the high street task force. Four bespoke subgroups, reflecting the four functions or work streams of the task force, have been set up, with the membership being as broad and as inclusive as possible. A dedicated staffing resource has been put in place, allowing the secretariat support to manage the high street task force to ensure overall governance, set direction, commission work and provide formal approval or sign-off on products.

The task force has been actively engaged in establishing four subgroups, which have met on a number of occasions, and drawing up relevant themes that affect towns, city and village centres across Northern Ireland. A programme of comprehensive engagement and co-design with stakeholders, including councils, will commence very shortly, and the high street task force is aiming to complete its report and recommendations by March 2022.

Sinéad McLaughlin (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

Does the junior Minister agree that, at the moment, the high street task force lacks strategic direction and support? It is now in danger of losing steam and momentum. I am really concerned, because this is the moment when the high street task force needs to lead the way in order to build back to recovery and build back stronger than before.

Gary Middleton (DUP, Foyle)

I thank the Member for her question. The high street task force, which, as I said, I chaired last week, has been focused, over the past months, on trying to get the mechanisms in place and hearing from the subgroup members. They brought forward all that information last week at the plenary meeting. I hope that, along with junior Minister Kearney, there will be another meeting in the next six weeks. Momentum has been building. There is a lot of expectation around the high street task force, and we are trying to manage that, but I am mindful that we have put in place support through the secretariat to move that along.

I pay tribute to all members of the high street task force. A huge amount of effort has been put in. Their expertise is very much valued. I look forward to the next number of weeks, when we can bring forward all the proposals, and we can go out to the people in our communities to hear their views. Hopefully, we can bring something forward that can be used by all Ministers to try to make our high streets and town centres a better place for all of us to live in.

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

The COVID-19 pandemic has had a devastating impact on our town centres. I think of Bangor town centre in particular, where a number of retailers have now closed or left the town centre. Will the junior Minister confirm that it is really important that those recommendations come forward at speed and that they are concrete, specific recommendations and initiatives to help our town centres across Northern Ireland?

Gary Middleton (DUP, Foyle)

I thank the Member for his question. I absolutely agree. Junior Minister Kearney and I have focused on trying to keep that momentum but also on giving space to the members with expertise in the group, in order to allow them to share their views and to ensure that, when we engage with the people in your constituency, businesses and chambers of commerce, we bring something that is effective and can be implemented. We also want to ensure that, if the timelines allow us to complete that piece of work by March 2022, it can be lifted and used and will continue to be of use for our town and city centres when new Ministers take up office.

Cathal Boylan (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

7. Mr Boylan asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister for an update on the review of the historical institutional abuse redress process. (AQO 2371/17-22)

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

By the end of August 2021, the Historical Institutional Abuse Redress Board had received 1,844 applications and considered 1,374 for determination. The board has made determinations totalling just over £25 million, and approximately £21·5 million has been paid to victims and survivors. Executive Office officials are meeting victims and survivors' groups to discuss the content of a terms of reference for the review of the historical institutional abuse redress process, with a view to putting those to Ministers in October.

Once the terms of reference have been finalised, they will be presented to the Executive Office Committee.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

That ends the period for listed questions. We now move to 15 minutes of topical questions. Question 7 has been withdrawn.

Declan McAleer (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

T1. Mr McAleer asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister whether the First Minister will commit to ensuring that the voices of those professional and support bodies that work with women will be involved in the design and development of the much-needed violence against women and girls strategy. (AQT 1531/17-22)

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

That is a very important strategy that the Executive Office is taking forward. It is vital that all voices be heard, not least those of women and girls who have a particular experience and can then assist in formulating the strategy. It is being taken forward. I will ensure that the Member's comments are brought to the attention of officials so that that can be accommodated.

Declan McAleer (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

I thank the First Minister for his response. Is he in a position to indicate when we can expect to see the strategy in place?

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Work is ongoing. It is a priority for the Executive. We are prioritising resources in our office. The strategy is cross-cutting in nature, and other Departments have a role to play. I do not have a date, but what I can say to the Member is that it is a priority for the Department to bring forward the strategy as soon as possible.

Pat Sheehan (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

T2. Mr Sheehan asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister whether the First Minister agrees that the public has the right to expect the full implementation and delivery of New Decade, New Approach (NDNA), given that it is the basis on which these institutions were re-established. (AQT 1532/17-22)

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

The Member is right about NDNA being the basis on which all the parties entered into reforming the institutions after a prolonged period of them being in a state of suspension. In it, there is a commitment by the United Kingdom Government to ensuring that Northern Ireland is an integral part of the internal market. The Northern Ireland protocol, however, has caused damage economically and to wider society, and it has created political tension. Those issues have to be addressed. That was the basis on which my party re-engaged in the institutions, so that area has to be respected.

The Member will know that the Belfast Agreement is very clear on where the delicate balance was struck when it comes to unionists, nationalists and, indeed, others. When one aspect of that is damaged, it causes harm across all others. When the east-west relationship is harmed, which it has been by the Northern Ireland protocol, that has an impact when it comes to North/South. I want to see those issues resolved. I want to see the institutions working, because I believe that we are best placed to represent the people who elected us to run the country and that we can do that better than other jurisdictions. However, we have to address the fundamental problems that have now occurred as a result of the Northern Ireland protocol. I hope that the UK Government and the European Union seize the window of opportunity that exists, but that window of opportunity is closing.

Pat Sheehan (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as ucht a fhreagra. I thank the First Minister for his answer. I do not want to get into toing and froing about the protocol and Brexit and who was responsible for all of that, because the Member knows that it was his party, in alliance with English nationalists, the European Research Group (ERG) and so on, that was totally responsible for it. Will the First Minister give an update on the Executive Office's departmental commitments in NDNA?

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

When it comes to the issue of "Where did it all go wrong in respect of Brexit?", it was in the outworking and implementation of that by the UK Government. We were very clear that Northern Ireland should be treated just like the rest of the United Kingdom. The Belfast Agreement makes provision for a change to the constitutional arrangements, but there needs to be approval by the people. There was no approval by anybody in Northern Ireland for the changes that flowed from the Northern Ireland protocol. We did not consent to it. The unionist representatives of the Assembly did not consent to it. It is vital that, when those types of changes are made, it is done in a way that has consensus. The protocol does not. I want to have it resolved and to see a solution. In meetings with Maroš Šefcovic that junior Minister Kearney attended with me, I made it clear that I want both communities — our whole community — to be in the best of both worlds, where you have unfettered access to the European single market and to Great Britain's market. We do not have that, because of the barriers created for goods and services going from Great Britain to Northern Ireland — to the tune of some £850 million a year, based on the assessment of a leading economist, Esmond Birnie. That causes harm, not just to unionists politically, but to everybody. The Member's nationalist and republican constituents are not able to get the type of goods and services that they should be able to get. The issue transcends unionists and nationalists when it comes to the practical implications.

On the other Executive Office commitments that result from New Decade, New Approach, the Executive Office continues to work to bring them forward.

Kellie Armstrong (Alliance, Strangford)

T3. Ms Armstrong asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister whether, in the First Minister’s use of the wholly insulting phrase “both communities”, he believes that she does not exist in Northern Ireland, and neither do the people whom she represents. (AQT 1533/17-22)

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Of course the Member exists, and she makes her voice heard, loud and clear. The term "both communities" is used in the Belfast Agreement, which her party supported and which brought about the designation of nationalist, unionist and "other". If the Member has a problem with how she is designated, its origins are in the 1998 Belfast Agreement, which her party championed.

Kellie Armstrong (Alliance, Strangford)

The Good Friday Agreement recognises the term "other", which is, of course, insulting. It then says that there are more than two communities. I ask the First Minister, when he references "the community of Northern Ireland", to recognise that there are more than two communities.

We are a diverse community. During Question Time today, the First Minister was asked about refugees. We have had disgusting and despicable accusations that those people will come to Northern Ireland, take our jobs and steal our homes. Those accusations have come not just from people outside the House but from elected representatives in other places in Northern Ireland. What communications will the First Minister put out to make it known that refugees are welcome and will be included here, and that any allegations about them taking our jobs or homes are to be absolutely taken out of the equation and not considered further?

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

The Member makes the point very well, and I agree with her. If anything, there is huge demand for jobs in Northern Ireland and a shortage of labour supply, so some people's argument that refugees are taking our jobs does not stand when it is tested against job criteria and the number of jobs that need to be filled.

I referred to this issue during Question Time. When people seek asylum and refuge in Northern Ireland, they do so because they have come from a position of distress. It is vital that we give them support. The Home Office administers the process and considers applications for citizenship, and ultimately it is not a devolved issue, but we have a responsibility to provide support for people who are here in Northern Ireland and to find ways in which they can be part of our society. Making sure that we have an integrated society where people feel welcome is not without challenges. I make it clear that, in Northern Ireland, our strength is our diversity and the fact that we are a multicultural society. That ought not to be feared; it should be welcomed. We should be able to respect and celebrate people and their differences.

Paula Bradley (DUP, Belfast North)

T4. Ms P Bradley asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister whether the First Minister, as part of the Executive Office, will press for legislation to extend welfare mitigations to be brought forward at the earliest opportunity, given that, although the Committee for Communities has been asking about welfare reform mitigations for some time, it keeps getting told that the issue is stuck at the Executive. (AQT 1534/17-22)

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

The Member has engaged on that issue for a long time and particularly in her role as Chair of the Communities Committee. Yes, there is support from all the Ministers in the Executive Office for the mitigations to be extended. The 'New Decade, New Approach' document states:

"The Executive will ?extend existing welfare mitigation measures beyond March 2020, when they are currently due to expire."

From my party's perspective, we fully support that. Indeed, we have committed to mitigations not just being extended but rolled over for an additional three years. The current position, where the mitigations are not clearly provided for in legislation, is far from satisfactory. In Northern Ireland, we already offer a much more extensive welfare support than other parts of the United Kingdom or, indeed, Ireland. We believe that measures should be subject to review at regular stages to ensure that Northern Ireland is offering the most appropriate and effective support possible.

Paula Bradley (DUP, Belfast North)

I thank the First Minister for his answer. I take from that answer, then, that we should expect at some stage in our Committee to get something back from our Executive. Can I also ask that you also press, through your office, for the closing of the loopholes on the benefits cap and the bedroom tax as well?

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Thank you to the Member. I have formally communicated the position of the party within the Executive Office in respect of the answer that I just gave. I touched upon this at the Executive meeting, and I trust that that will allow an appropriate paper to be brought forward now by the Communities Minister.

Ministers will, of course, look at closing any loopholes in the welfare framework that are not entirely new policy proposals beyond what has previously been agreed.

Diane Dodds (DUP, Upper Bann)

T5. Mrs Dodds asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister for an update on funding for the Communities in Transition programme. (AQT 1535/17-22)

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for that question. On 16 February, the Secretary of State wrote to the Justice Minister to confirm that £10 million over three years was being made available from NDNA to support delivery of the Communities in Transition project over three years. The Northern Ireland Secretary of State further confirmed that Her Majesty's Treasury was to provide £5 million of funding to support the wider programme for the 2021-22 year.

Diane Dodds (DUP, Upper Bann)

I thank the First Minister for that update. Substantial funding from this funding stream has already gone into parts of Lurgan, particularly north Lurgan. Will the First Minister support the extension of this funding to neighbouring areas within the Lurgan community that have been equally impacted by paramilitarism and difficulties?

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I know that the Member does extensive work in her constituency, not just in north Lurgan but in south Lurgan, in making representation for them, and has done so on this issue. I recognise that the Member and her colleagues are making the case in areas such as south Lurgan. Unfortunately, at present, we have not received as much funding as we would have liked to allow us to extend the programme to new areas. However, "an area of influence" has been articulated in our policy as an area that is not within the core area of intervention, though may be a near neighbour of or adjacent to it and have a significant impact on the core area of intervention. This policy recognises that the paramilitary or criminal organisations do not limit their activity to postcodes or electoral wards. Therefore, we should not limit activity where there is clearly a link.

For that reason, we have been looking at trying to provide a modest sum for areas of influence where there is growing evidence that activity in an area of influence can have a positive impact. This activity will be aimed at building relationships, raising awareness of the Communities in Transition project and supporting enabling work to build resilience in these areas. Officials are currently considering how these sums could be administered to ensure that needs are met. Options may include developing a small grants scheme, for example. Any more significant expansion of project interventions into these communities would require additional funding, but that is something that we would be willing to look at.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I call Mr Doug Beattie, who will not have time for a supplementary.

Doug Beattie (UUP, Upper Bann)

T6. Mr Beattie asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister whether his junior Minister will continue to attend the Specialised Committee on the implementation of the protocol as part of the Joint Committee. (AQT 1536/17-22)

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

In terms of the DUP's position, we have outlined that the North/South aspects of the institutions are an area that we will now not be providing Ministers to partake in.

I will need to come back to the Member with specific answers on what the DUP position is on the Specialised Committee.

[Laughter.]

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Time is up. I ask Members to take their ease for a moment or two.

Oral Answers to Questions — Justice

Jemma Dolan (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

1. Ms Dolan asked the Minister of Justice for an update on her Department's review of the law around the disclosure of victims' remains. (AQO 2380/17-22)

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

The pain and ongoing anguish of families who are living in the terrible situation of not knowing where the remains of their loved ones are cannot be overestimated. The recently introduced Helen's law in England and Wales provides that the Parole Board must consider life prisoners' failure to disclose information on the location of their victim's remains in its deliberations on whether they should be released at the end of the tariff period.

Although that is a step forward in recognising the trauma that is endured by families, it does little to encourage disclosure at an earlier stage. We have a responsibility to do all that we can to help those families, and a bespoke approach for Northern Ireland offers the best hope of securing disclosure. That is why I commissioned a review: to examine opportunities to encourage those who are suspected, charged and convicted of murder to disclose details of the location of their victim's remains at each stage of the criminal justice process.

Good progress has been made over the summer. Having developed their report, my officials met victims' families on 2 September. Final adjustments are being made to the report in the light of that meeting, and it will be with me shortly. I intend to meet the families of Charlotte Murray and Lisa Dorrian once I have had an opportunity to consider the report, and I will set out my formal position in due course.

Jemma Dolan (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I thank the Minister for that answer. Minister, do you anticipate any proposed changes resulting from the review of the law around the disclosure of victims' remains being legislated for in this mandate?

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

First, I do not want to pre-empt the solutions and changes that are required and whether those will require legislation. It is clear, given what is left of the mandate and the lack of additional time that we have, that any new legislation will likely be in the new mandate. There may, however, be things short of a legislative response that can be implemented in a shorter time frame. I will be able to provide more detail once I have given the report full consideration.

Dolores Kelly (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Upper Bann)

Minister, have you had any stakeholder engagement on the principle that there is a correlation between sentencing guidelines and information on a victim's remains?

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

That is not an issue on which I have engaged with stakeholders, but it is an area that we can consider as the report comes forward, because there may be some overlap. The important thing is this: at every interaction with those who are accused and convicted of such offences, we should be trying to create an incentive for them to give up the location of remains. It is an incredibly distressing experience for families to have no place to go to lay memorials and no grave on which to lay flowers. For many of the families, that distress compounds the loss of their relative. To me, it is absolutely horrendous that there are people in the system who continue to withhold that information. It is so important that, at every stage and at the earliest stage, we incentivise people to give up that information, because we want to limit the time that families have to go through this kind of trauma.

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

I thank the Minister for working with families, including the family members of Lisa Dorrian, who reside in my constituency. Does the Minister agree that the most powerful and important message that can come from the Chamber today is a united message that anyone with any information whatsoever in relation to the disappearance of Lisa or others should come forward to the police or to Crimestoppers to allow the apprehension of the perpetrators and the discovery of the remains?

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

I wholly concur. When people lose a member of their family in such horrendous and violent circumstances, and when no one will come forward with information, yet everyone knows that that information must be available to some in our community, it is a trauma that does not bear thinking about. Therefore, it is absolutely key that those who may have information that could lead to a conviction for such offences and to the recovery of remains should make that information available through Crimestoppers or to the police directly. It is only right that families should see justice and should see the end of the injustice of not being able to bury their dead.

Declan McAleer (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

2. Mr McAleer asked the Minister of Justice for an update on the review of the provision of services for vulnerable persons detained in NI prisons. (AQO 2381/17-22)

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

Mr Speaker, before I answer the question, I will take this opportunity, on behalf of the Assembly, to express sympathy to the family of the prison officer who sadly passed away on 19 August following a short battle with COVID-19. He was known personally to a number of Members, and it is right that we pay tribute to him for his work in the prison and, in particular, for the work that he did in support of staff, past and present.

Turning to the question, I understand that the report of the review of vulnerable people in custody is due to be published by the Regulation and Quality Improvement Authority (RQIA) during the week commencing 20 September 2021. Pending the outcome of that review, the Prison Service has been working closely with the South Eastern Trust, our healthcare provider, and has made significant progress in improving support to people who are at risk. For example, we have delivered a joint suicide and self-harm risk management strategy and a joint management of substance misuse in custody strategy. A review of our supporting prisoners at risk procedures has resulted in the delivery of a new person-centred approach that aims to support someone through a period of crisis or distress, as well as addressing the root cause of the issue. Well-being hubs in each of our establishments provide a therapeutic environment for people in our care who need the support of the trust's mental health teams, and specific therapeutic spaces in each of our establishments provide multidisciplinary support to people at risk. I look forward to receiving the RQIA report, which I will, of course, consider carefully.

Declan McAleer (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

I thank the Minister for her response. She has pre-empted my next question, which was on when the report is likely to be published. The Minister stated September 2021, which is five years since it was commissioned. Can she give a commitment that it will be published in September?

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

It is not a commitment that I can make on behalf of the RQIA, but it is my understanding that the report will be completed on 20 September and published directly by the RQIA during that week. I ask Members to keep their eyes peeled, because I hope that the RQIA will be able to meet that target.

Robbie Butler (UUP, Lagan Valley)

First, I thank the Minister for her timely remarks about a former colleague of mine. He was an officer who worked diligently, right up to this point, with many MLAs.

The Minister will know that prison operations, including the provision of services for vulnerable prisoners, are impacted by staffing levels, and there are growing concerns about staffing levels in Maghaberry, in particular. Is the Minister aware of those concerns, and what action will she take to address them?

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

We are aware that the arrangements that we put in place in our prison system, particularly to deal with COVID-19, have come under pressure at various points in the system, either through levels of illness in the Prison Service and the numbers isolating or, indeed, through the peaks and troughs of people being brought into the system. The director general of the Prison Service and I monitor that on an ongoing basis. Where there are any concerns about the level of complement, they are, obviously, addressed. At this stage, the director general and his management team have not communicated significant concerns to me about the available complement in the prison system, and they certainly have not communicated to me that it would give them concern for the safety either of prison officers or, indeed, prisoners.

Rachel Woods (Green, North Down)

The Minister will be aware that a review of the operation of community safety units was conducted this year. Will she give us an update on when the report for that will be published?

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

The publication of the report is a matter for Criminal Justice Inspection Northern Ireland (CJINI), which undertook that review at my request. I understand that the review is well under way. The practical element of it, in terms of attendance at the prison, has been completed, and it is now a matter of the recommendations being formulated. I will, of course, keep the Chamber apprised of when that report arrives on my desk.

Doug Beattie (UUP, Upper Bann)

3. Mr Beattie asked the Minister of Justice for an update on applications to the Troubles permanent disablement payment scheme. (AQO 2382/17-22)

William Humphrey (DUP, Belfast North)

4. Mr Humphrey asked the Minister of Justice, following the launch of the Troubles permanent disablement payment scheme, what plans she has in place to give additional support, both financial and practical, to victims groups that will have an increased workload. (AQO 2383/17-22)

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

Mr Speaker, with your permission, I will respond to questions 3 and 4 together.

I am extremely pleased that the Troubles permanent disablement payment scheme opened for applications on 31 August. That was an important day for the victims and survivors of the Troubles, who have waited such a long time for that important scheme.

The Victims' Payments Board is responsible for determining entitlement to payments under the scheme in line with the Victims' Payments Regulations 2020. As the Victims' Payments Board is an arm's-length body of the Executive Office, the First Minister and deputy First Minister are responsible for responding to queries related to the delivery of the scheme, as it is now operational. I understand, however, that, as of this morning, the Victims' Payments Board has received 272 applications.

The Executive Office is also responsible for allocating funding to victims' groups to provide advice and support for applicants to the scheme. I understand that £994,000 has been allocated this financial year for the anticipated demand for support and advice arising from the scheme. That includes £300,000 for any increases in demand for health and well-being services.

I strongly encourage anyone who is considering making an application to the scheme to contact one of the support organisations. Contact details are available on the Victims' Payments Board website.

Doug Beattie (UUP, Upper Bann)

Minister, thank you. I know that a huge effort has been made to bring the scheme forward. Like you, I welcome it.

I have spoken to many victims about this, and there is still a degree of confusion out there about who should or can apply and what effect it would have on other benefits that they may receive. Particularly as it is a UK-wide scheme, will there be any form of advertising or media campaign to try to reach out to people so that they can understand the issues and problems?

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

There was a series of virtual workshops over the summer in order to ensure that the public could engage in advance of the scheme opening. Whether the scheme is advertised more widely is a decision that would need to be taken by the Executive Office, for which the Victims' Payments Board is an arm's-length body, rather than the Department of Justice. Our role in it, as the nominated Department, was to provide an operational scheme. The responsibility for decisions on support for victims who apply and, indeed, other matters pertaining to the Victims' Payments Board are decisions for the Executive Office. However, I am sure that it will have heard what you said today and will take it on board as it moves forward.

With respect to any confusion about who can apply, there is no barrier to application. There are, of course, eligibility criteria, which may determine whether people are eligible for the scheme. That would be a matter for the Victims' Payments Board to determine, but I think that the rule of thumb is that if you believe that you may be eligible, you should apply.

William Humphrey (DUP, Belfast North)

Minister, over the summer, I had conversations with a number of constituents about the scheme, and I am concerned that staffing may be an issue.

I listened to what she said about this being a TEO responsibility, but collectively, around the Cabinet table, are Ministers content that there are enough resources and, if not, will other steps be taken?

I echo the point that has just been made about certainty and clarity for those who are eligible to draw down money from the scheme and the implications that it may have for them on other benefits that they are drawing down from government.

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

The Member is right, of course: it is a collective effort of the Executive to deliver the scheme, given that it is cross-cutting in nature. I certainly want to ensure that the good work that has been done is not undermined by weak delivery, and that is also true of the board. As I pointed out, significant funding has already been provided by the Executive Office to support victims' organisations so that they can have advisers on hand to give people advice if they are, at any level, confused or find it difficult to fill in the forms.

The scheme is designed so that an individual ought to be able to complete the form without legal assistance. I stress to people that they do not need to spend money on a solicitor's advice. They can, of course, choose to do so if they wish, but other advice is available to them without cost. It is important that that is kept under review. If there is any feedback in the medium term that those organisations are in any sense overwhelmed or that advisers are struggling to deal with demand, the Executive will, of course, look at that collectively through the Budget process.

Sinéad Ennis (Sinn Féin, South Down)

The Minister just mentioned it, so I know that she is aware of law firms contacting victims to offer paid representation to help them to fill out application forms for the permanent disablement payment scheme. As she said, several organisations are funded to do that. What direct engagement has she had with victims to make sure that they are directed towards those organisations so that they do not have to pay unnecessary costs?

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

The Victims' Payments Board issued a statement in light of public commentary that solicitors had been contacting individual victims to offer them that support at a cost. The board's statement made clear that there was no necessity for people to go down that route. Of course, no one is precluded from seeking legal advice if they wish to do so, but it is not required to fill in the forms, and, as I said, other advice is available.

It should also be noted that the Law Society issued a statement reminding solicitors of the rules around soliciting for business and that that is not appropriate behaviour and could lead to fairly significant action against them by the Law Society. That has been communicated to solicitors and to families, but we will, of course, want, on an ongoing basis, to promote the services that are available through various victims' organisations. As I said, the key points of contact for that are the Victims' Payments Board, which has information on its website, or the Victims and Survivors Service, which can direct people to the right place to get advice that will not cost them money and will not in any way impact on any final settlement that they may receive from the board.

Colin McGrath (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

Does the Minister have any update on the overall funding for the scheme? There remains significant ambiguity about that, and we cannot allow any of the stakeholders, such as the British Government, to shirk their responsibilities. We must ensure that our Executive coffers do not have to fund the scheme when others have responsibility as well.

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

Ongoing funding of the scheme continues to exercise Executive colleagues, including me, and the Northern Ireland Office. The discussions around that are ongoing, but no final formulation is in place, although I hope that there will be soon. I agree with the Member that it is important that a scheme that is open to people across the UK and this island who have been affected by the Troubles is not left at the door of the Northern Ireland Executive to fund from the block grant. However, it is most important that we reassure those members of the public who may wish to apply to the scheme that their payment is not at risk and that it will be covered. There is an undertaking from the Executive Office in court to that effect, and we will ensure that it is paid. When it comes to the fairness of distribution of responsibility, I concur entirely with the Member.

Gerry Carroll (People Before Profit Alliance, Belfast West)

5. Mr Carroll asked the Minister of Justice for her assessment of jury-led court cases being moved from Bishop Street courthouse to Coleraine. (AQO 2384/17-22)

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

I can assure the Member that there are no plans to close Bishop Street courthouse. At the start of the coronavirus emergency, the need to ensure that court buildings were safe for staff, judiciary and court users meant that jury-led Crown Court trials across Northern Ireland were suspended from late March 2020 to August 2020.

Following a series of COVID-19 risk assessments, the Northern Ireland Courts and Tribunals Service undertook a programme of works on courthouses to ensure that they complied with Public Health Agency (PHA) guidelines on managing the risks of COVID-19. This allowed for the phased reopening of most courthouses. However, several courthouses, such as those in Derry/Londonderry and Downpatrick, are listed buildings. Their layout means that it is simply not possible to accommodate 12 jurors in the courtroom while complying with PHA guidance on social distancing. Consequently, when jury trials recommenced, Crown Court business had to be moved to a location where it could be accommodated within the guidelines. In the case of Bishop Street courthouse, Derry Crown Court business was moved to Coleraine. Magistrates, civil and family court business, which does not require a jury, continue to be heard in Bishop Street.

Jury trials deal with some of the most serious and sensitive cases in the justice system. It is important for the victims of crime and for those awaiting trial that justice is dealt with in a timely way. It is important to recognise that the temporary transfer of Crown Court business from Bishop Street to Coleraine has allowed a number of trials to proceed. My officials have already met with the Law Society and are arranging a meeting with the Foyle Local Solicitors Association on this issue. The programme of work to incrementally recover court business is being informed by public health guidance. Arrangements will be kept under review and will be revisited as circumstances develop.

Gerry Carroll (People Before Profit Alliance, Belfast West)

Thank you for answering, Minister. The move may have been initiated by COVID, but it has caused inconvenience, disruption and barriers for people getting access to justice, particularly in Derry. I ask the Minister when the change will revert so that those court cases are heard in Derry. What measures has she taken and what measures will she take to make sure that people in Derry do not face any barriers to justice?

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

Unfortunately, I cannot predict what COVID may do in the months ahead and at what point we will be able to entirely dispense with the social distancing requirements placed on us by the PHA. We recognise that it is an inconvenience to have to travel to attend court, but that is an inconvenience that people across Northern Ireland — not just those in the north-west — have been requested to face. It is a temporary measure, so that we can start to recover the court system and have cases heard. In the vast majority of Crown Court cases, people would far rather travel the short distance between Derry and Coleraine than to see their case not taken at all, which is the alternative. It is therefore important that we move forward in a constructive way.

I want to reassure Members. As with all rumours, I am not sure where the rumour that we are going to close Bishop Street courthouse started, but it seems to have got legs. Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, my Department is engaged in a process to look at how we can upgrade the courts and tribunals system and, in particular, provide a suitable hub in the north-west. I have no doubt that my colleagues from Foyle will want to bend my ear at length about where that hub might be located.

Sinéad McLaughlin (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

Thank you, Minister. You have answered my question. I was going to ask you to give an absolute commitment to deliver that modern court service to the people of Derry. I note that, in your reply to a letter from me, you talked about the north-west, but we need an absolute commitment that you mean Derry when you talk about modernisation and upgrading the Bishop Street courthouse.

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

It may not be possible to upgrade the Bishop Street courthouse, but it may still be possible to provide a modern and effective centre for justice in Derry/Londonderry. That is certainly the option that we are considering. We are absolutely committed, however, that, once COVID has passed, Bishop Street courthouse will reopen in its current state. When it comes to our future vision, Members will be aware that we recently published the modernisation vision statement, which sets out ambitious plans to deliver:

"independent, fair and effective, modern courts and tribunals"

right across the jurisdiction. The document also acknowledges the restrictions of the current estate and the technological capacity required for the modern justice system, looking at how we can deliver that better. The strategic outline case for major capital investment in the north-west has been approved, and the business cases for other schemes at the Royal Courts of Justice and the old town hall in Belfast have commenced. We are working through multifaceted technical surveys across the entire estate to ensure a rigorous assessment of accessibility, physical conditions, space efficiency and functional suitability.

I give the absolute guarantee that Bishop Street courthouse will reopen and that new facilities will be provided in the longer term in the north-west. Of course, it would be remiss of me not to remind the Member that I may not be the Minister in charge at that point.

Philip McGuigan (Sinn Féin, North Antrim)

The Minister will be aware that the contract for the Nightingale courts that were used during the pandemic ended on 3 September. Has that contract been renewed? Will those continue to exist?

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

With respect to the Nightingale system, a number of options are available to us. I am happy to come back to the Member with more detail on how that will work, but you will understand that, in most cases, although not all, the Nightingale courts were dependent on there not being an alternative use that was allowed under the coronavirus regulations for those particular facilities. As, increasingly, society opens up again, some of those facilities may not be immediately available to us. However, international conferencing is one area that is likely to move at a much slower pace, and so there is still scope for us to continue with that. In the interim, we have, however, provided other temporary accommodation to allow for expansion, particularly in terms of workspace for those who work in the court system. A huge amount of work has to be done and has been done, but we will now be in a situation where we will have one more Crown Court at the end of the process than we had pre-pandemic. That will allow us to start to make a real impact in terms of recovery.

Nicola Brogan (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

6. Ms Brogan asked the Minister of Justice for an update on work her Department is doing, in conjunction with her Executive colleagues, to protect children from online child abuse. (AQO 2385/17-22)

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

Keeping our young people safe from online child abuse is a shared responsibility across all Departments. That is reflected in the Executive's online safety strategy and accompanying action plan, which aims to ensure that children and young people can participate in the online world in a positive, safe and responsible way. Officials from my Department are also represented on the Health-led child protection senior officials' group, which is a strategic forum that provides direction on existing or emerging child protection issues. The group's work plan includes online safety as a key priority area.

My Department seeks to protect children wherever possible within its policy and legislative remit, whether in the online or offline world. Following the report of the independent inquiry on child sexual exploitation in Northern Ireland in 2014, my Department consulted on a review of the law on child sexual exploitation. That led to the inclusion of a number of legislative proposals that are now contained in the Justice (Sexual Offences and Trafficking Victims) Bill, which has come to the Chamber for consideration today.

Nicola Brogan (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

I thank the Minister for her answer. Recent figures that have been provided by police forces across Britain and in the North indicate that there has been a 16% rise in online child sex abuse cases. Has the Minister had any input to the British Government's online legislation? If not, has she made any representation to show the importance of that issue?

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

The online harms Bill, which is being taken forward at Westminster, is one that I have taken particular interest in, because, as Members will be aware, communications online and telecommunications generally are not devolved matters. Therefore, that Bill will provide the platform on which we can then legislate against harm. We have been in contact with our colleagues in the Home Office. I have written to my ministerial colleagues, and my officials maintain a watching brief in terms of the proposals that are made. I have some concerns that those proposals do not go far quite far enough. Therefore, a key area of the draft provisions of the Bill that we are bringing forward today at Second Stage relates to adults masquerading as children for sexual grooming purposes. Subject to Assembly approval, four new offences will be introduced: communicating with an individual; communicating with a group; communicating with a view to grooming a particular child; and communicating with a view to grooming any child. Importantly, the communication does not need to be sexual for those cases, and nor does the communication need to be online, although it is accepted that the majority of cases will relate to online activity where behaviour of that type can be carried out more easily.

Jonathan Buckley (DUP, Upper Bann)

The Minister may be aware of the dangerous rise in online self-harming websites, which prey particularly on young people and the most vulnerable in our society.

Recently, at my request, the Health Minister met one of the families directly affected by that. Will the Minister guarantee that the Department of Justice will feed into those conversations with Department of Health officials to ensure that we can help to eradicate this scourge, which is, sadly, claiming too many lives?

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

I thank the Member for raising that hugely emotive issue. It is repulsive that people online would prey on young people who may be distressed and suffering from the temporary issue of poor mental health and seek to promote to them this culture of despair and to devalue their lives. The pain and harm that that can cause not just to the young person but to their family and the wider community of their friends and associates is enormous. Therefore, it is important that proper protections are put in place. The Member will recognise that not all these matters fall to the Department of Justice as lead, but I am more than happy to step up and work with my colleagues, whether in Health or Communities, to look at how we can ensure that those who try to promote a culture of death and despair online are stopped in their tracks by the law.

Justin McNulty (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

I welcome the fact that legislation is being progressed through the Justice (Sexual Offences and Trafficking Victims) Bill. Anything that can be done must be done to protect the safety of children and young people online. I am, however, concerned about the exceptions for "mere conduits" and for caching or storage by internet providers in new section 5(9). Is that insertion proportionate? Is there a risk that that will remove the onus on the service providers, the Facebooks, Tik Toks and Instagrams of this world, to police the content on their platforms and will be a sort of "Get out of jail free" card for those providers?

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

I reassure the Member that that is not the purpose of those clauses. It is required that we include the clauses because of our exit from the EU. We must ensure that ISPs that are governed through laws other than those of the UK are also subject to UK law. That is the nature of those provisions; they are certainly not offering a "Get out of jail free" card. I have made known to the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport in Westminster my concerns about the rather light-touch approach that it has taken in its Online Harms White Paper with respect to being able to enhance the traceability of people who are involved in crime online.

We all acknowledge that there is often a good reason why people choose to be anonymous online. However, there is a distinction between having an anonymous online persona and the owner of the account and the information that is provided not being traceable where there is a breach in the law. I continue to explore that with the Department. The regulation of content on providers' sites is also hugely important. I have raised directly with Facebook and Twitter my concerns that they, as platforms, do not take their responsibilities seriously enough.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

That ends the period for listed questions, Members. We move on to 15 minutes of topical questions.

Áine Murphy (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

T1. Ms Á Murphy asked the Minister of Justice to explain why the introduction of the new domestic abuse offence, provided for in the Domestic Abuse and Civil Proceedings Act, is to be delayed from the end of 2021 until at least February 2022. (AQT 1541/17-22)

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

It is of, course, hugely regrettable that the operationalisation of those sections has taken longer than we would have wished, but that is solely a result of our partners who engage in the operational space indicating that the December deadline that we had set will no longer be possible. There are a number of reasons for that, but the majority of it is down to the complexities of the computer systems and the interchange of information that are required for those offences to take effect. Therefore, they have asked for additional time. However, they have reassured us that the revised time frame is more realistic. Obviously, all of them are also working under the pressure of COVID, but the majority of this is simply down to the operational and technical complexity of some of the information sharing.

Áine Murphy (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I thank the Minister for her answer. Are you confident that the introduction of the hugely important domestic abuse offence will not be delayed further and will, indeed, be in place by the end of February next year?

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

That is absolutely my intention.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

T2. Mr Allister asked the Minister of Justice for her assessment of unionist and loyalist confidence in the Chief Constable. (AQT 1542/17-22)

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

It is clear that there are those in the unionist and loyalist community who, for a number of reasons, say that they do not have full confidence in the Chief Constable. My job, however, is not merely to assess that situation; my job is to work with the Chief Constable, the other parts of the tripartite arrangements that are here and Members in the Chamber to build that confidence. I will say gently, as I have said on previous occasions, that I do not believe that ignoring the tripartite arrangements, ignoring the role of the Policing Board in accountability, ignoring the role of the ombudsman's office in looking at serious breaches and, instead, going straight to party politicking around the Chief Constable's position does anything to enhance not only confidence in the Chief Constable but the standing of political colleagues in the Chamber. It is therefore important that, as Members ask about confidence, they also reflect at length on what positive contribution they can make to increasing confidence. That is a role that all of us are called to in the House.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Does unionist and loyalist confidence matter, or it is only nationalist and republican confidence that matters to the Chief Constable and the Minister? When she talks about reflecting, she must be aware of the irreparable damage done by surrendering the streets of west Belfast for the terrorist funeral of Mr Storey. She must be aware of the compounding of that with many other issues, such as the mistruths about why there was no helicopter to oversee an INLA show of strength. She must surely know of the deep loss of confidence provoked by the Chief Constable's plan to hide from public view —

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Will the Member put the question, please?

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

— memorials to gallant RUC dead. Is she really surprised —

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Will the Member put the question?

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

— as those have not been addressed —

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Will the Member put the question?

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

— that there is a total lack of confidence —.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I will not engage like this again. When you are asked to put the question, please put the question.

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

Thank you, Mr Speaker. Hopefully, my answer will be slightly briefer than the question.

On the first point about whether unionist confidence in the Police Service matters, of course it does. It is important that every member of the community, irrespective of their political views, has confidence in the Chief Constable and in the PSNI, which is why it is so important that those who stand up in the House to talk about policing issues do all in their power to engender confidence.

The second question, as I understand it, was whether I was surprised at, I presume, the litany of things that the Member has raised around grievance. I am not surprised that he has raised those issues, because he has raised those issues repeatedly in the Chamber, but he has sought no solution and brought no new information by way of progress to the Chamber. I have to say that the constant erosion of confidence — deliberate erosion of confidence by some — in the Chief Constable will ultimately be to the detriment of the unionist and loyalist community, because, if people end up in a situation where they no longer have sufficient confidence in the PSNI, they will turn to others, and the risk of that is much, much greater. Every Member of the House should be conscious of our history and how that has played out.

Let us not play politics with policing. Let us remove the politics from policing, resolve the political issues as politicians in a mature and pragmatic way and deal with the challenges of policing that actually affect confidence. Things like response times and the police's ability to provide confidence in the community around community safety can all be delivered in every community.

I simply wish to correct the record, if I may, Mr Speaker. I did not have sight of the Chief Constable's report before it was presented to the Policing Board, because the majority of the elements therein were of an operational nature, but I wish to convey to the Chamber that we should not build up straw men to then appear brave wrestling them to the ground. How that report has been characterised in the media and again in the Chamber today is not just unhelpful but inaccurate. Members should desist.

Pat Catney (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Lagan Valley)

T3. Mr Catney asked the Minister of Justice for her assessment of the south Armagh policing review. (AQT 1543/17-22)

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

The Member will be aware that, as I have just stated in my previous answer, it was not brought to me or my Department for consultation. No proposals were put to me in connection with it. As Justice Minister, I have always taken great care to respect the tripartite accountability arrangements. That includes respecting the Chief Constable's independence in operational matters and the Policing Board's role in holding him to account.

In the normal course of events, I would expect to be consulted on proposals that directly engage my Department's responsibilities before they are put into the public domain, particularly where those proposals are sensitive or controversial. There are lots of aspects of the report that should not be controversial. Many of its recommendations are about professional policing approaches to a particular geographical area and make proposals that would modernise that policing approach. Many of the proposals would lead to more visible and responsive policing for the area. There are some controversial recommendations that would benefit from further careful consideration before any final decisions are made about them. I welcome the recent statement by the Chief Constable clarifying the PSNI's intentions on some of the more contentious recommendations. I also note the Chief Constable's commitment to provide detail on his plans to the Policing Board in the coming weeks.

Pat Catney (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Lagan Valley)

Does the Minister agree that closer cooperation between the PSNI and an Garda Síochána in joint operations would help disrupt the activities of organised crime groups involved in the movement of illegal drugs across the border?

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

The report invites the two Justice Departments to explore the scope for joint policing arrangements to include hot-pursuit protocols. A range of legal, practical and political issues would need to be considered and agreed by both Governments regarding a joint approach, as opposed to collective and collaborative policing, which is already under way, including, most obviously, which powers police officers would hold in the jurisdiction in which they are not attested. I will continue to discuss that with my counterpart as part of our regular engagements. At this point, however, I remain committed to supporting the increased effectiveness of our respective police services in tackling cross-border criminality within the existing and agreed operational frameworks, including through the established joint agency task force, which brings together the relevant law enforcement agencies to better coordinate strategic and operational actions against cross-border organised crime.

Hot-pursuit protocols have obvious attractions, but they also face significant legal, political and operational obstacles, and that explains why they have never been possible to date. I do not rule out looking at that area again if there is sufficient political support for it, but that does not seem to be in place currently.

William Irwin (DUP, Newry and Armagh)

T4. Mr Irwin asked the Minister of Justice whether she has had any discussions with the Chief Constable about public confidence in the PSNI in unionist areas. (AQT 1544/17-22)

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

I have regular, ongoing discussions with the Chief Constable. I continue to work with him and through the Assembly to promote confidence in the Chief Constable and in the PSNI as a whole. As I said to other Members earlier, I welcome any efforts that individual Members can make in their communities to enhance that confidence and to encourage people to work with the PSNI constructively and productively in order that we can reduce crime and make people safer, because, ultimately, that is a joint endeavour and not one that is solely for the Chief Constable.

William Irwin (DUP, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Minister for her response. Does she accept that there is an issue with confidence in policing in unionist areas of Northern Ireland?

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

I accept that there are issues with confidence in policing in certain parts of the unionist and loyalist community. It is not fair to say that that is universal or that it is as widely held a view as some would wish it to be. Irrespective of the extent to which it is a problem, however, it is important that it be addressed.

Therefore, I encourage those who represent communities who, for whatever reason, lack confidence in the PSNI or are concerned about PSNI operations, to work through the Policing Board, on which all Executive parties have members, and through PCSPs and the other opportunities that are available to build and restore confidence in the Chief Constable, his senior management team and the wider PSNI.

Policing is not an easy job. I am not the policing minister, and for that I am eternally grateful. I am the Justice Minister, and my job is to focus on justice. For justice to operate in a society such as ours requires every part of the community to have confidence, and all of us have a role in ensuring that that is the case.

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

T5. Mr O'Dowd asked the Minister of Justice whether she has examined any other legislative way to protect women who are accessing healthcare, given that he understands that it will not now be possible to legislate for exclusion zones around facilities where women are accessing healthcare such as abortion services. (AQT 1545/17-22)

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

I thank the Member for his question. It may not be possible. Whether it is possible to bring it within the scope of the current legislation is a matter of discussion. However, I am aware that a private Member's Bill has been drafted and is ready to take this forward. I have made contact with my colleagues in Westminster, because, as Members will be conscious, they are due to bring forward legislation to make provision for abortion services where those services have not been commissioned by the required date.

It is important to note that all parties in the Chamber, with perhaps one exception, have voted in council chambers across Northern Ireland in favour of motions that are clear that harassment of people entering medical facilities needs to end and that space is needed for people to access medical treatment and for staff to go to their place of work without interference. I therefore hope that such changes will not be controversial but will allow people to continue to protest in a way that is responsible and does not interfere with access to healthcare.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

A brief supplementary, please.

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

Everyone has the right to protest, but protesting outside a health setting is unacceptable. No one protesting, shouting and roaring at women walking into a healthcare setting knows those women's stories. I welcome the Minister's commitment to examine all legislative pathways. Will her officials engage with the Member who is sponsoring the private Member's Bill if it is introduced later today?

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

We will, of course. I am committed to resolving this issue. The right to protest is an important human right and an important part of being in a democratic society, but the Member is absolutely correct that many of the women who access that particular kind of healthcare, and many of those who are seeking not a termination of pregnancy but other medical advice that may be related to that or to other sexual issues, find it incredibly intimidating, distressing and frustrating to have to run the gauntlet of protesters at what is often a most distressing time in their lives. It is not appropriate. Those who genuinely have compassion for those women and, indeed, for the unborn should reflect on how they conduct those protests, how they make their voices heard and at what point in the system they do so. I do not believe that people having to run the gauntlet of protesters on their way to healthcare is an appropriate mechanism.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Time is up. Members, please take your ease for a moment or two.

(Mr Deputy Speaker [Mr McGlone] in the Chair)

Executive Committee Business

Peter Weir (DUP, Strangford)

I rise to indicate that I and my party support the Bill. We support and welcome the principles of the Bill. Although we have yet to see the wording of the three amendments outlined by the Justice Minister, I indicate that, in principle, we will be supportive of those amendments as well.

Mention was made of the route the Bill has travelled. I welcome the fact that we have a Bill that is quite focused on sexual offences and trafficking. It means that not only can we in the Assembly find issues we can unite on across the House but we can ensure that those specific issues are given the focus that they require to ensure that we get things right. There was a little bit of discussion, particularly between the Minister and the Chair, about the quantity of legislation. I am sure they will both agree that the quality of the legislation is even more important. Therefore, it is important that we stress-test the Bill, as Ms Bradley said, to ensure that the wording is right.

I will pick up on the first theme. While the advance of technology has many advantages in a rapidly changing world, its increase creates its own problems. Sadly, we have seen that sexual offenders have used technology to advance their pernicious activity. It is very important that a range of the measures proposed in the Bill help to cover some of that development. Mention was made, particularly on clause 1, of the two additional offences that are being sought for voyeurism through upskirting and downblousing. We can all agree that we need to ensure we can combat offences that could not have occurred 10 or 20 years ago.

One of the areas that we will want to stress-test is highlighted in the Bill's two proposed headings on the motivations of either sexual gratification or humiliation. While those seem like very sensible approaches, the Committee will want to make sure that the wording on those is right and that the motivation matches the offence.

The dangers of the advance of technology are highlighted in the increased sexual grooming of children. The Bill reflects four new offences from the report on child sexual exploitation, where adults try to sexually exploit children through pretending to be a different age. It is important that those issues are tackled as well.

One thing that may be difficult to achieve but is significant and that the Committee will want to look at is that the provisions should combat such crimes at the most cutting-edge level. They will allow us to catch up with current developments, and we will want to see whether there are any measures that we can take to future-proof the legislation to make sure that those who seek to use new technology and new techniques are combated. That is particularly welcome in the area of revenge pornography, where we have yet to see the exact wording of the amendment. It is a growing threat, and, as we know, it is not simply that it is used for revenge but that its coercive nature is highly significant. Similarly, on criminal conduct, which is dealt with in chapter 1, while it is hard to comprehend how anyone could come to a different conclusion, if the use of terminology could be wrongly interpreted to potentially assume any blame towards children, and we can change the language to make that clearer, that should be embraced.

Chapter 2 deals largely with the Gillen recommendations. Again, while we want to make sure that we get it right, we should have adequate protection for victims so that it does not become a major threat or impediment to those seeking justice. Similarly, that protection is required for defendants pre-charge. That should be done from the point of view of victims, but there have been high-profile media cases, particularly where footage has been leaked from different jurisdictions where there has been an investigation into somebody but not a charge. Quite often nowadays, people tend to think that there is no smoke without fire. We must avoid the situation in which public opinion feels that somebody is guilty of these horrendous crimes prior to a charge.

Similarly, given that we know that this can be a very stressful time for the victim and the defendant, I welcome the confirmation, from the discussion that we had with departmental officials, that there is provision that, while there is exclusion from proceedings, a nominated friend or relative will be with that person. No one will be left in the courtroom on their own or isolated. Sadly, that is not a hypothetical example. Many of us who have been involved directly in the law know that court cases, unless you are directly involved, are not a great spectator sport. They can be quite dull at times. Sadly, for sexual offences, there can be a prurient interest, particularly in high-profile cases. It is not simply a question of additional pressure in those cases but that, sadly, in a number of high-profile cases, details that should have been confidential have been leaked. In principle, it is right that there should be the opportunity for the public to be excluded from those court proceedings, very much in line with the Gillen recommendations.

Part 3 deals with prevention orders. In principle, I welcome the provision of a form of belt and braces by ensuring a modification to widen slightly SOPOs and VOPOs. Again, we will test the wording of that when we come to examine it in detail.

Finally, I want to touch on Part 2, which deals with trafficking and exploitation. I was involved in the passage of Lord Morrow's private Member's Bill on human trafficking, back in 2015, as were many in the House. While there are many occasions when people will decry the House, that was one of the most significant pieces of legislation that was passed. It stood as merit to Lord Morrow and, indeed, the House that we stood up for the victims of human trafficking. We stood up in two ways. First, practical arrangements were put in place to provide protection for those who were suffering from human trafficking. Ultimately, as was highlighted in the motion proposed last year by our Chief Whip, Joanne Bunting, there is always more that can be done, but there was that strong practical element to it. The second significance of the legislation was the key principle that it established that human beings, whether on the basis of sexual exploitation or enforced labour, are not to be treated as a commodity. They must be respected as a human being and protected as such. Consequently, I welcome the provisions.

At this stage, I do not see anything in clauses 16 and 17 that concerns me, but, as a Committee, we will want to see whether any actions can be taken that will further enhance those provisions. Clause 16 provides additional support for the victims of trafficking and extends to ensure that victims of sexual exploitation or child labour are protected, and provides the coverall that they will be protected if they do not fall within the cover of those categories, albeit, it is difficult to envisage circumstances where that would be the case. I take on board what has been said and the assurance that has been given by the Minister and officials on clause 17 and the movement towards a three-year strategy, which will mean greater scope and opportunity for the issues to be looked at strategically and implemented. I support the proposition that was put forward by the Committee Chair that there should, perhaps, be an annual monitoring provision, but the strategy should be rolling and able to do that.

These are grave issues on which we need to ensure that we can intervene so that we can provide that level of support and protection for people. I look forward to scrutinising the detail with the Committee. As others have said, it is important that this does not become legislation that sits on a shelf; it must be a living, breathing document. I wholeheartedly support the principles of the Bill and commend it to the House.

Chris Lyttle (Alliance, Belfast East)

I welcome the opportunity to speak in support of the introduction of the Justice (Sexual Offences and Trafficking Victims) Bill. The Bill is another example of the leadership and delivery of the Justice Minister, Naomi Long, in this mandate. I particularly welcome the provisions that will increase the scope of offences relating to child sexual exploitation and extend abusive trust laws to protect young people in non-statutory settings. That includes the addition of the live-streaming of images to the definition of exploitation of children for sexual purposes, and the creation of new offences to deal with an adult pretending to be a child, or, as the Minister said, "masquerading" as a child, and making a communication with a view to sexually grooming a child under 16. It is my understanding that those offences will cover communication with an individual or a group, with a view to grooming a child, and with a view to grooming any child under 16. Importantly, the offences will not be limited to online behaviour.

I welcome the robustness of the penalty for each of those new offences. I understand that there will be a sentence of imprisonment of up to six months or a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum of £5,000, or both, on summary conviction, and a sentence of imprisonment of up to two years for a conviction on indictment. It is my understanding that the Bill will remove and replace existing references to child prostitution and child pornography. I agree with the Justice Minister that that terminology is outdated. Those changes make it clear that children are not responsible or willing participants in their own abuse. Alliance believes that the amendments to those legislative references will help in raising awareness of the status of children as victims of exploitation rather than as willing participants or otherwise complicit in abuse perpetrated by others.

I also welcome the change to the existing legislation that covers the abuse of a position of trust of a child contained in articles 23 to 31 of the Sexual Offences (Northern Ireland) Order 2008. The amendment will provide greater protection to young people who are in the care of adults in certain non-statutory environments. It is my understanding that that provision has widespread support from agencies and organisations that work with and represent young people, including the NSPCC, Children in Northern Ireland (CiNI), the Children's Commissioner, Barnardo's and the Safeguarding Board for Northern Ireland (SBNI), as well as a number of health and social care trusts and sporting organisations. The provision recognises the large amount of time spent by children in the care and authority of adults, as well as the power differential at play, in many non-statutory settings. It is vital that children have full protection and are safeguarded in those settings to flourish, to develop their interests, talents and abilities and to enjoy sporting and other activities in full safety. It is essential that would-be offenders know that robust law will be brought to bear on those who commit child sexual offences of that nature in those settings. I welcome the seriousness with which many sporting codes are taking the safeguarding of our children and the incorporation of mandatory training into coaching qualifications.

In 2019-2020, an average of six children were sexually abused every day in Northern Ireland, and PSNI figures suggest that there were 2,000 recorded offences against children under 18 years of age, which is up 37% in the five years since 2014-15. That abuse of trust and abuse of children must be eradicated from our society, and I am grateful for the introduction of this legislation and the action being taken by the Minister of Justice to help us to achieve that aim.