Northern Ireland Assembly, 5 July 2021

342 contributions from 61 members. The official report.

Assembly Business

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I advise the House that I have received a letter of resignation from Seán Lynch as a Member of the Assembly for the Fermanagh and South Tyrone constituency.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I have been informed by the Chief Electoral Officer that Ms Áine Murphy has been returned as a Member of the Assembly for the West Tyrone constituency to fill the vacancy resulting from the resignation of Mr Lynch.

This morning, Ms Murphy signed the undertaking and the Roll of Membership and entered her designation in my presence and that of the Clerk to the Assembly. Ms Murphy has now taken her seat. I welcome her to the Assembly and wish her every success.

Matters of the Day

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Mr Stewart Dickson has been given leave to make a statement on relations and solutions to the implementation of the protocol, which fulfils the criteria set out in Standing Order 24. If other Members wish to be called, they should do so by rising in their place and continuing to do so. All Members who are called will have up to three minutes to speak on the subject. I remind Members that interventions are not permitted, and I will not take any points of order on this or any other matter until the item of business has been finished.

Stewart Dickson (Alliance, East Antrim)

Thank you for the opportunity to speak on an important issue, which failed to make any impact on discussions or in the media across the United Kingdom or particularly in Northern Ireland at the weekend. For the first time, for any serious acknowledgement, the United Kingdom and the European Union reached a significant area of agreement and discussion on the implementation of the Northern Ireland protocol in that they agreed to allow for a further extension of the grace period for chilled meats, and some other arrangements.

It was significant because it was the first indication of a serious engagement between the two parties to recognise the difficulties that Northern Ireland finds itself in as a result of the outworkings of the protocol.

It might also be worth noting that we are in this situation because of the failure by some in Northern Ireland to recognise the damage that they were doing by supporting our exit from the EU. More importantly, from the point at which the United Kingdom decided democratically to leave the European Union a great deal of work has been done by certain political parties to put every obstacle in the way of Northern Ireland's relationship with the EU and its relationship with the rest of the United Kingdom. Instead of working collaboratively and collectively to deliver the best outcome for Northern Ireland, there are those — sadly, they are represented in the Chamber — who have been determined to highlight the difficulties. They have done little or nothing to acknowledge — indeed, they are in denial — the incredible opportunities for Northern Ireland, given its unique position in the United Kingdom and in the European Union.

That has been exacerbated by the legal action that was taken. I do not deny the right of any citizen, political party or grouping of political parties to take legal action to check or verify their perception of the law, but it is clear that their actions very much have the potential to weaken rather than defend the Union relationship of the United Kingdom. They are people who voted for Brexit. They knew, from 2015, what they were seeking to achieve.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Will the Member draw his remarks to a close, please?

Stewart Dickson (Alliance, East Antrim)

Now is the time to move away from constitutional issues and to determine the better business prospects for the citizens of Northern Ireland. I welcome the statement and agreement between the EU and the United Kingdom.

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

I will not sell my birthright for any mess of European Union pottage, despite being invited so to do by the Alliance Party. It is not purely an economic issue; it is a constitutional issue. The constitutional position of Northern Ireland has been fundamentally undermined and threatened by the protocol.

It is ironic that we are summoned here today to a discussion about amending the implementation of the protocol by people who called for its rigorous implementation. Mr Dickson and his party signed up to the joint position demanding the rigorous implementation of the protocol: not a soft touch or a light hand but a rigorous implementation. We have seen for ourselves what that has produced. We have seen situations where medical supplies to the people of Northern Ireland have been threatened. We have seen the supply of certain food products to the people of Northern Ireland being threatened. Therefore, those who signed up to the protocol, those who were scuttling around Brussels demanding the provisions of the protocol should take ownership of it. The protocol is not a consequence of Brexit; it is a consequence of a Remainer rearguard action to deny the outcome of the Brexit referendum in 2016. They fought for it, they argued for it, and they demanded it. Now, they seek to tell their constituents, "It wasn't really us, guv. We didn't do it. No, no, no. It was all those evil people who campaigned to leave the European Union".

Northern Ireland is being used as a political football by the European Union, and the European Union's cheerleaders in Northern Ireland should take ownership of that fact. They argued for the provisions of the protocol. The protocol does not need to be amended; it needs to go, because it is impacting on the lives of our people in a negative way. Whether in respect of supplies or economic activity, the consequence of the protocol is to make people in Northern Ireland less well off by denying them their rights as United Kingdom citizens.

The European Union's cheerleaders who fought to prevent the implementation of the Brexit referendum result and cheered Brussels every step of the way in the process did so because they owe a higher fealty to the European Union than they do to their own constituents and the interests of those constituents. We will not be lectured on doing what is right for the people of Northern Ireland by those who are actively campaigning to make them poorer.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I call Caoimhe Archibald.

Caoimhe Archibald (Sinn Féin, East Londonderry)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. It is good to see you back.

Last week, the grace period for chilled meats was extended until the end of September, which provided a welcome temporary relief for businesses. It is clear, however, that we need to see progress made between now and then to put in place permanent solutions in order to provide the type of clarity, certainty and stability that businesses are telling us that they want and need. Despite all the shouting and protestations from unionist parties in the Chamber and beyond, the reality is that the protocol is a consequence of Brexit, with its loudest opponents ironically being the biggest champions of Brexit: a Brexit that was championed against the democratically expressed wishes of people in the North. The majority of MLAs in the Chamber, the majority of citizens and the majority of businesses opposed Brexit and wanted mitigation against its worst excesses. The protocol is that mitigation, and, although imperfect, it offers very real protections and gives the North competitive economic advantages. Those who depend on the protocol protections for their livelihood and the success of their businesses want to see it maintained and working and any operational problems resolved. That is why we need to use the period that we now have to find longer-term solutions to the outstanding issues, and those will be achieved only through diplomatic and political engagement and through working together on the basis of good faith.

Unhelpfully, however, we have British Government representatives, including those involved in the negotiations, saying that they did not expect the protocol to be implemented in the way in which it has been. In doing so, they are either exposing themselves as incompetent negotiators or disingenuously trying to mislead the public. The former is, of course, entirely possible, but it is much more likely that the latter is the case: they are being entirely dishonest. Their position is entirely betrayed by the fact that, if they honestly wanted the protocol to operate more easily, they could seek a veterinary agreement with the EU. The British Government have said that they do not intend to reduce standards, and a veterinary agreement would substantially minimise the checks required, yet they have completely refused to do that.

We have seen and heard a willingness from the EU to engage through the existing structures, which are part of the withdrawal agreement that the British Government negotiated, ratified and signed up to, in order to find solutions. That work needs to continue in order to find permanent solutions. Despite a lack of recognition from the British Government and unionist parties, the EU has shown flexibility on a number of issues, as Mr Dickson outlined last week. Those include the removal of the obligation for a green card for car insurance and on issues to do with medicines and pets. What we need is honesty from the British Government about what they signed up to. They must engage in good faith over the coming weeks and months to provide for our businesses a stable trading environment, in which they can maximise the unique position that the protocol affords the North of continued access to the EU single market, which allows the Executive and Invest NI to —

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

The Member's time is up.

Caoimhe Archibald (Sinn Féin, East Londonderry)

— attract inward investment, create jobs and strengthen our economy.

Matthew O'Toole (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

It is regrettable that we are here in the first place. It is regrettable that Brexit happened at all. It is extremely bizarre to hear people argue that the protocol is somehow unrelated to Brexit. I am afraid for Mr Stalford that the 70% of people in South Belfast who voted Remain, and probably —

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

How many of them voted for you?

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Order.

Matthew O'Toole (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

— many of the people who voted Leave, will not have —. Chuntering from a sedentary position will not strengthen the Member's position, which people in South Belfast know is absurd.

I am delighted that the Matter of the Day was raised. I should say, however, after the Member drew to the attention of the Assembly the fact that I was co-opted, that the reason that I was co-opted is because your party, Mr Stalford, was routed in South Belfast, because of its absurd position on Brexit and for forcing through a hard Brexit against the wishes of people in South Belfast and all of Northern Ireland. Reflect on that the next time that you chunter at me from a sedentary position.

A Member

[Inaudible]

Chair.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Order, Members.

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

Calm down, Matthew.

A Member

Through the Chair.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Order. Please, let us behave.

Matthew O'Toole (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

If I can, I will move on briefly to what we are discussing, which is the Matter of the Day. I welcome the fact that it was submitted.

Last week, the European Commission and the UK agreed a significant package of easements. We should all be about making Brexit and all its consequences work, and that includes the new bureaucracies that businesses are dealing with as a result of the protocol. The grace period for chilled meats was extended. A solution for moving pets from GB to Northern Ireland is close to being found. The European Commission has signalled a clear willingness to legislate on the area of medicines, so that we will have a comprehensive solution for that. So some of the scaremongering that has gone on is wrong. A solution for green cards, which were mentioned by the previous Member who spoke, has been found. People in this place are wont to forget that the consequences of Brexit go far beyond the protocol. It is welcome that people will not need a green card simply to travel to Donegal or, as is the case for some Members' constituents, to drive a mile down the road to fill their car up with petrol.

Leaving the single market and customs union was always going to have consequences. The protocol is an imperfect but necessary means of managing those consequences. We should all be about making that work and seeking to find practical solutions to issues, where they arise, and, yes, taking advantage of the opportunities. For decades and generations, this place has had very little genuine competitive advantage. We have all said that. Well, now we do. We have an opportunity, which is unique on this planet, to move goods and to seamlessly export into the British market and the European single market of half a billion people. Why would we deny our economy that? Yes, there are issues that we need to make work, but constantly harping on the constitution and identity anxiety is not the way to deliver prosperity and stability to our people.

With that, I conclude my remarks. I welcome the progress that was made last week. I just wish that, having created these problems in the first place, other parties in the Chamber would put their shoulder to the wheel —

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

The Member's time is up.

Matthew O'Toole (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

— and help to deliver solutions.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Thank you.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

I suppose that it is progress that the rigorous implementers of the protocol are beginning to recognise the serious damage that their protocol is doing to Northern Ireland and to their constituents. They still, however, have that subservient attitude that we should be grateful to our overlords in Brussels because they have deigned to allow us to buy some sausages.

[Laughter.]

Let me be very clear: this is an issue of sovereignty, not sausages. A mere tinkering with the protocol, the grace periods and all the rest does nothing to affect the obnoxious and pernicious substance of the protocol. Until that is gone, there is no solution. The test of all the tinkering, grace periods and of any changes is whether this supposed part of the United Kingdom is left within a foreign single market for goods, subject to a foreign customs code and a foreign VAT regime, which are all overseen by foreign laws and adjudicated upon by a foreign court. If any changes still allow that, they have not changed the substance of the protocol.

Of course, the real consequence of that is that this so-called legislative Assembly is prohibited by the protocol from legislating on much of what governs our economy. Our laws governing the economy are now made not in Belfast or London but in a foreign jurisdiction. Yet, those who proclaim themselves to be liberal democrats cheerlead that fundamental transfer of sovereignty. How can Members of the House who say that they want to be democrats approve of a system that moves the law-making powers for such a colossal part of our economy to a foreign jurisdiction and tell us that that is a good thing? No one with any blood of democracy in their veins can embrace such a state of vassalage, and yet that is what the protocol has brought to us.

Those who are beginning to wake up to the damage and are in retreat from rigorous implementation need to get to the point of recognising that the protocol cannot be salvaged. It cannot be fixed. It is doomed, because it transfers —

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

The Member's time is up.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

— fundamentally sovereignty from this place and from London to a foreign place with no control. Mr Dickson can cheerlead —

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

The Member's time is up.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

— but there is no control now —

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

The Member's time is up.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

— over many of the laws made, and that is an abomination.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

The Member's time is up. Mr Allister, thank you very much.

Alan Chambers (UUP, North Down)

Like the percentage of people in South Belfast, to whom Mr O'Toole referred, who voted to remain, I voted to remain. However, the referendum was an exercise in democracy. It was not an opt-in/opt-out referendum. It was not conducted street by street. It was conducted as a national referendum of the United Kingdom, including Northern Ireland. People voted to leave, and, as a democrat, I accepted that decision.

The protocol is a different animal. It was not brought forward in a democratic process. I, as a voter and resident in Northern Ireland or the United Kingdom, was not asked whether I was happy with the protocol; the protocol was imposed on us. That is just not democratic.

I remember the leaders of some political parties in the Chamber rushing down to Dublin, in the middle of the COVID restrictions when travel was much more restricted and regulations were a lot tighter than they may be today, to get their photographs taken on the steps of the Department of Foreign Affairs. They were there as champions of the protocol and were demanding its full implementation. Now, they seem to have stepped back a little. The easements that have been quoted as having been achieved in the protocol are not down to the efforts of the champions who rushed to Dublin to get their photographs taken; it was others, who fought and showed the iniquitous nature of parts of the protocol, who led to their being changed.

Mr Šefcovic addressed an Assembly Committee last Monday. I picked up some words that he is reported to have used. On medicines, the most basic thing that people need, he said:

"We are willing to consider taking bold steps if the UK Government demonstrate a clear and concrete commitment to implementing the protocol in full."

That sounds like some form of blackmail and, to use Mr Stalford's words, like Northern Ireland being used —

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

The Member's time is up.

Alan Chambers (UUP, North Down)

— as a political football. That is exactly how we have been used.

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

I had not intended to speak to the Matter of the Day, because Mr Stalford has set out my party's position clearly. However, I have been astounded by what I have heard from Members in some Remainer parties, in particular Mr O'Toole, who is essentially saying to us, "Stop harping on about the protocol. Stop complaining about it". I will continue to complain about the protocol, because there are constitutional, economic and social issues with it. It is not working, and it needs to go. I will not be silenced by Members who say, "Just get on with it", because the situation cannot continue.

It is not generous of the European Union to allow trade to continue between Great Britain and Northern Ireland. It is not generous to say, "In the future, we may be able to work out a plan that will allow you to get vital medicines". We need to see real change and progress on the issue. I am glad that we do not hear about rigorous implementation any more from the Alliance Party, the SDLP or Sinn Féin.

The penny has dropped, and they are starting to realise — I hope that the British Government, the Irish Government and the EU are starting to realise — the problems with the protocol, and we need to see action on that.

Those are the parties that have spoken so much about the Good Friday Agreement and the need to protect it. It is very clear that the protocol does not protect or support the Good Friday Agreement in any way. If people in the House are serious about wanting to share power and about seeing all communities working and moving forward together, they need to recognise the concern that the protocol is causing in unionist communities. It is a mistake to say that it is just impacting on the unionist community in Northern Ireland. The implementation of the protocol affects everybody who tries to do business with Great Britain and manufacturers trying to bring goods in from Great Britain. Rather than doubling down and continuing with the failed protocol, it is time to find new solutions, and I hope that other parties recognise that.

Rosemary Barton (UUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

It is ironic that, once again, we are discussing the protocol. It was introduced by the European Union through a totally undemocratic process that gave little or no consideration to the people of Northern Ireland. Look at the problems that we have had with the protocol with our pets. There is the possibility that our pets will be vaccinated for diseases that no longer exist in the United Kingdom. What nonsense. Look at the issues with the importation of flowers and plants, just because they have soil from Great Britain on them. How has the soil changed since December 2020? Look at the issues that we have in the agricultural community, with the rules and regulations regarding the importation of animals and keeping animals in Great Britain for six months before they can be brought into Northern Ireland. That is decimating parts of our agricultural economy. Look at the issues with drugs, which have already been mentioned. The protocol has got to go. It is impacting on everybody in Northern Ireland, and there is no need for it.

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

Welcome back, Mr Speaker. I had hoped that you would be welcomed back with a more conciliatory tone today, but there it goes. On the Matter of the Day before us, it is important to recall what was covered by the statement that came out on Wednesday. It covered a mutually agreed extension of the grace period on chilled meats. It also covered practical solutions on a number of issues that have previously been raised in the Assembly, such as medicines, guide dogs, the movement of certain animals and the green card, which some people do not seem to think is a significant issue, but, for me, it is. The obligation for the green card has been waived. Today and on previous days, I have heard, "So what?". So what? The reality is that the United Kingdom leaving the European Union was never going to be easy, and the impact on Northern Ireland was always going to be particularly acute. I hear the comments today, but I also recall when two former Prime Ministers came to Derry/Londonderry a number of years ago and outlined the serious concerns about the impact of Brexit on Northern Ireland, if it occurred, and — hey ho — today we are debating how those concerns are now being played out.

We have to focus on solutions, not problems. Far too often here and in other places, we constantly debate the problems. That announcement was about solutions. Some say that we should get rid of the protocol and bin it. That would have some credibility if it were not for the fact that there is no credible alternative to the protocol. If we bin the protocol, we will get protocol 1.1. There is no credible alternative. We have been here for years debating the issue, as has Westminster. The DUP had a position of influence and power from which it could have enabled a better outcome, but, aided and abetted by the European Research Group (ERG), we ended up getting a hard Brexit and the impact of it. That is the reality. Some say that they did not consent to it; Northern Ireland did not consent to Brexit. The majority of people in Northern Ireland voted to remain, but we are where we are now, and we have to focus on solutions. One of the solutions in front of us is a common veterinary agreement.

I really wish that people would come together and support that. Until that happens and until all parties come together, support that and push the UK Government to deliver on that solution, I am sorry, but some of the outrage that has been expressed here does not come across as entirely credible. Solutions and the ability to take it forward are out there. We have to focus on solutions to deliver for people and businesses in Northern Ireland.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Members, that concludes the first Matter of the Day

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Mr Doug Beattie has been given leave to make a statement on the awarding of the George Cross to Health and Social Care (HSC) workers that fulfils the criteria set out in Standing Order 24. If other Members wish to be called, they should rise in their place and continue to do so. All Members called will have up to three minutes to speak on the subject. I remind Members that interventions are not permitted and that I will not take points of order on this or any other matter until the item of business has finished.

Doug Beattie (UUP, Upper Bann)

The NHS is an extraordinary institution. Those who work for it are our doctors, our nurses, our care workers, our paramedics and our drivers. They are those who do the laundry, the domestics and the people who clean bottles in sterilisation units. There is a range of people that stretches out to our general practitioners and even to our pharmacists. They are incredible, and they are incredibly brave. For the last 18 months, they have been fighting a battle on our behalf against a pandemic that has taken lives and liberties. Who can forget the images of exhausted doctors and nurses in our NHS as they fought to keep people alive? The NHS is truly incredible.

Of course, we could spin this to say that the problem is that we need more funding and resources for our NHS. I will park that, because that is absolutely right: our NHS has been underfunded for many years, and that needs to be dealt with. However, today, from Her Majesty The Queen came these simple words:

"It is with great pleasure, on behalf of a grateful nation, that I award the George Cross to the National Health Services of the United Kingdom."

Those are simple words, but the George Cross has, in its lifetime, been given on only three occasions. The first was given to Malta for fighting Nazi fascism, the second to the RUC for fighting terrorism and the third to our brave NHS staff for fighting the global pandemic.

For those who do not know the George Cross, it is a simple medallic recognition in the form of a silver cross. In the middle is a depiction of St George fighting the dragon, which is our NHS fighting the dragon that is COVID-19. Around it are the words "For Gallantry". Nobody, whether they like the UK's national award system or not, can stand up and say that our NHS staff do not need to be recognised for their gallantry.

Jonathan Buckley (DUP, Upper Bann)

I congratulate the National Health Service on the accolade of being awarded the George Cross. The honour will be hugely welcomed across the health service. From doctors to nurses, management to midwifery, clinicians to cleaners and ambulance teams to porters, our health service staff is made up of a wealth of individuals who have all played their part, particularly this year as they fought COVID-19. Throughout the 73-year history of the National Health Service, many in our health service — they come from our communities, regardless of background — have supported our citizens in their hour of need.

The George Cross is the highest award bestowed by the Government for non-operational gallantry. Put in place in by Her Majesty's late father, it is an award with which Her Majesty The Queen has huge personal affinity. As has been mentioned, it has been awarded on a collective basis only twice: in 1942, to the island of Malta for its efforts during World War II and, in 1999, to the Royal Ulster Constabulary for its gallant efforts against terrorism in Northern Ireland. There is no doubt that this is a fitting award for the people who make up our National Health Service. In Northern Ireland, we have the added advantage that those who work in the social services can share in this great accolade.

We need to look after our NHS staff. While the award will be so welcome to so many and it is right and fitting to bestow it on them today, we must also recognise them with better pay and conditions and safe staffing levels. We must recognise that they have been through huge turmoil this year, and we, as elected representatives, and our community must get behind them. How sad is it that we still have attacks on our NHS staff? How sickening. It is up to us to right those wrongs.

I will raise one more fundamental point. The values of the NHS and what it brings to this part of the United Kingdom are clear, but the fundamental building block of the NHS — that it is free at the point of need — is under threat. It is up to us as Members to look at the NHS model and do what we can to ensure that the NHS success is our community's success and that we build on the vital work of those who save lives not only during the pandemic but in the recovery from COVID that will be needed.

I welcome the Matter of the Day and thank Mr Beattie for bringing it to the House.

Colm Gildernew (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I note the award announced for NHS staff. I am sure that, for some Health and Social Care staff, it is a welcome announcement that will provide some comfort, reassurance and, indeed, recognition. In my time as health spokesperson and as Health Committee Chair, I have had many chats, discussions and meetings with staff, trade unions and professional bodies. In my experience, there has been a call for true and proper recognition of the skills and commitment shown by all our staff in their duties.

I have heard from staff about issues such as the need to have safe staffing levels and legislation to ensure those; to address the workforce crisis and vacancy problems; to tackle the reliance and spend on agency staff; to reduce waiting lists and transform services; to provide genuine and supportive psychological help; and, at a basic level, to ensure that, when staff are on shift, there is somewhere safe and warm for them to go to get their lunch, take breaks and change their clothes.

I have also heard clear calls for a pay award and uplift that is fair, decent and meaningful to recognise and reward our cherished Health and Social Care staff. I am sure that I am not the only one here who has heard from staff about that. Staff contact me daily through my office and directly on social media to ask for details of the recognition payment. The Minister has said publicly that he hopes that the long-awaited COVID-19 recognition payment to staff will be in bank accounts by the end of the month. I ask the Minister to share any further detail on that as soon as possible.

Finally, I acknowledge that it is right and proper to recognise the work and services provided by Health and Social Care staff during the COVID-19 pandemic. I would like to see that recognition in every interaction that we have with staff. I would like to see and hear it in a simple "Thank you" after getting treated. Say it to the nurse, the doctor, the social worker, the porter, the cook or the social care worker. I want to see the removal of abuse, verbal and physical, from all our healthcare settings, whether in the emergency department or on the phone to the GP receptionist or while walking down the street. Let us not forget all the emergency and front-line workers who were there on our behalf when they were needed. They do what they do because of their commitment to their work and to us, their community.

Let us reward their commitment and effort today and every day in real and meaningful ways, both large and small.

Colin McGrath (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

I welcome the award today for what it is: a recognition of our brave health service staff. It is also a recognition of their hard work, their determined effort and the absolute bravery that they have displayed. Let us remember the images that we were seeing just one year ago and the people whom we were talking to, including those who were working in the intensive care units, those who were working in other areas of the hospitals and those in the community who were being given one set of gloves and one mask and being asked to go into multiple houses throughout the day. All of that was done during a time when none of us truly knew what the impact of COVID was going to be. They did not stop, and they did not think about it. They went ahead and did their work because they knew, as staff, that they had to deliver care. Also, we got to recognise the full breadth of careers that there are in our health sector. There are many people doing different jobs, and, if any element of that did not play its part, the system would not work. I acknowledge fully what has been done.

Whilst such an award is welcome, they were also promised a £500 payment a long time ago. That would be an equal, if not more-practical, acknowledgement of their work and their effort, and I would like to see those payments start as quickly as possible. The best recognition for our healthcare staff and the bravery that they show daily would be a properly resourced service, paying our health service staff the proper pay rise that they need and ensuring that there are proper working conditions that are appropriate and acceptable. Any recognition of our wonderful healthcare staff is welcome, and I am happy to welcome this one today.

Paula Bradshaw (Alliance, Belfast South)

I thank Mr Beattie for raising the issue in the Chamber today, and I think that it is entirely appropriate that the honour from Her Majesty The Queen extends to health workers across the United Kingdom.

The George Cross is awarded for acts of the greatest heroism or the most conspicuous courage, and I think that we can all agree that both of those apply here. Not only did many Health and Social Care workers have to work in exceptional and difficult circumstances, they often had to take on new roles quickly, working together, often in areas and situations that they had never imagined. They did so with dedication, heroism and courage to save lives and see us through the pandemic. That most obviously applies to those on the front line working with victims of COVID-19 throughout the pandemic but perhaps most notably right at the start, when we were faced with a virus that we did not fully understand. The speed with which decisions had to be made and implemented meant that many in our health service, from those who had just joined it through to those who had come out of retirement, operated in the most stressful circumstances. We should never forget, however, that many health workers then had to carry on with regular roles, also under the most immense stress. Workplaces literally became smaller, prioritisation more rapid and challenges more difficult.

Few of us in the Assembly will ever truly grasp the astonishingly challenging conditions in which our health workers had to fulfil their duties. Words are important, but they are small in comparison with the contribution that they made. Recognition is more important. It shows health workers — even more than the notes in house windows or the clapping on the doorsteps — that their role was appreciated by us all and that, when we look back, their heroism and courage will be something on which we will all look back with pride. Sadly, a number of Health and Social Care staff also lost their lives to COVID-19 while working in our wards, and we must never forget their ultimate sacrifice.

It is important to add that, in Northern Ireland at the outset, there was still an ongoing pay dispute, and we know that the nurses set that aside to rejoin the front line. We need to show our recognition to all health workers that they are truly valued, not just through one-off recognition payments but by paying them proper salaries to ensure that those who qualify for those vital roles are encouraged to remain in them here in Northern Ireland. Therefore, let this award be the first step to a bold and true recognition of how much we value those who took risks on our behalf to keep us all safe.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

The awarding of the George Cross is sparingly used for very good reason. It is the ultimate superlative accolade, and, therefore, down the years, it has been used infrequently. However, given what we have come through, I believe that no one will dispute the eligibility and suitability of our National Health Service for this tremendous accolade. I congratulate the NHS on the receipt of it. Because it has been awarded to the corporate NHS, it applies equally to every member working in the NHS, from the most lofty consultant to the porters and cleaners and all in between, who, collectively, made a monumental contribution to getting us to this point in dealing with the pandemic. All of us should and do, I trust, recognise the debt of gratitude that we owe to them.

As Ms Bradshaw said, we should remember those who, in the course of their duties, fell victim to COVID and gave their lives and did not live to see the recognition of the service to which they had devoted themselves. It is a fitting and very well-deserved tribute. Every member of the NHS can hold their head up high knowing that what they did has national recognition and that the NHS delivered as the national service that it is.

Alan Chambers (UUP, North Down)

I concur and wish to be associated with all the complimentary remarks that have been made about our wonderful NHS and social services staff. I was slightly disappointed to detect in some of the contributions almost a sense of begrudgery and even a degree of political distraction around the award, but I do not intend to dwell on that.

I served in the RUC Reserve, and the RUC was subsequently awarded the George Cross. I feel great pride every time I see that fact in print. I am able to feel that I was perhaps a small part of what that organisation contributed to Northern Ireland. Today, all our NHS and social services staff will experience that sense of pride. Under the leadership of our Health Minister, Robin Swann, individual staff have gone not just the extra mile but an extra 100 miles to nurse and to restore to health our citizens and, with the ongoing vaccination programme, to protect them.

I will conclude by saying that it might be a nice touch if every member of our NHS and social services staff could receive a memento of this fantastic award — if protocol permits, perhaps even a small replica of the actual medal.

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

I echo the comments made by many people today in welcoming the award of the George Cross, which is fully deserved. We hold a deep debt of gratitude to all people working in Health and Social Care. Many of us in the Chamber will have family and friends who work in the Health and Social Care system in Northern Ireland. My mother worked in the NHS for decades and retired at the end of last year. I have a close friend who has worked in the accident and emergency department of the Ulster Hospital in very challenging circumstances. There are also people working in admin and IT roles that are essential to the operation of the NHS.

To me, hearing the announcement this morning and then reading the letter from Her Majesty The Queen from Windsor Castle really was a quite significant tribute to all the staff who have served us so well.

If it is OK, Mr Speaker, I will read into the record the letter from Her Majesty The Queen, which had a significant effect on me:

"It is with great pleasure, on behalf of a grateful nation, that I award the George Cross to the National Health Service of the United Kingdom. This award recognises all N.H.S. staff, past and present, across all disciplines and all from [sic] nations."

Sorry; apologies. The letter is handwritten. It is a bit like a doctor's handwriting, so I am trying to go through it:

"Over more than seven decades, and especially in recent times, you have supported the people of our country with courage, compassion and dedication, demonstrating the highest standards of public service. You have our enduring thanks and heartfelt appreciation."

Her Majesty The Queen.

George Robinson (DUP, East Londonderry)

Our NHS has always been there for all our citizens, no matter creed or class, in particular over the last year and a half to help to fight this vicious pandemic, which we have never endured in our lifetimes. This is due recognition to the life-saving work that those dedicated NHS staff, be they doctors, nurses, cleaners or ambulance crews, who have all gone the extra mile. In some cases, they even lost their own lives trying to save others.

Well done, with the recognition of the George Cross, to all our brave NHS staff.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Thank you. That concludes this Matter of the Day.

Assembly Business

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Members, I previously announced that I had been informed by the Chief Electoral Officer that Ms Áine Murphy had been returned as a Member of the Assembly for the West Tyrone constituency. Of course, Ms Murphy has, in fact, been returned as a Member of the Assembly for the Fermanagh and South Tyrone constituency. I apologise for this error and for panicking any Members in case they had been worried.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

The motion will be treated as a business motion, and there will be no debate.

Resolved:

That this Assembly nominates Mr Stewart Dickson to continue as a full member of the Regional Chamber of the Congress of Local and Regional Authorities of the Council of Europe until the end of the current Northern Ireland Assembly mandate. — [Ms Armstrong.]

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

As with similar motions, the motion will be treated as a business motion, and there will be no debate.

Resolved:

That Mr Gordon Lyons replace Mr Jonathan Buckley as a member of the Assembly and Executive Review Committee; and that Mr Stephen Dunne replace Mr Gary Middleton as a member of the Committee for the Economy. — [Mr Humphrey.]

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Members, please take your ease for a moment before we move on to the next item of business.

Ministerial Statement

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I have received notice from the Minister of Finance that he wishes to make a statement. Before I call the Minister, I remind Members in the Chamber that, in light of social distancing being observed by parties, the Speaker's ruling that Members must be in the Chamber to hear a statement if they wish to ask a question has been relaxed. Members participating remotely must make sure that their name is on the speaking list if they wish to be called. Members present in the Chamber must also do that, but they may do so by rising in their place as well as by notifying the Business Office or Speaker's Table directly. I remind Members to be concise in asking their questions. This is not an opportunity for debate per se, and long introductions will not be allowed.

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Last December, I updated Members on the restructured Procurement Board. As part of that restructuring, permanent secretaries were replaced by procurement practitioners and representatives from the private sector, the social enterprise sector and the trade union movement. The purpose of that change in membership was to ensure that procurement policies will be co-designed by people who develop contracts and the companies and workers who deliver those contracts. As part of that restructuring, it was agreed that the board's procurement guidance notes would go to the Executive for approval. Elevating the status of those notes from guidance to Executive policy was intended to ensure better and more consistent procurement practice across government. At the time, I highlighted social value as one of my priorities for the new Procurement Board. That is important because, each year, the Executive spend £3 billion, which is approximately 25% of their DEL budget, buying goods, services and construction from the private and third sectors. That spending power can and should be harnessed to advance our Programme for Government outcomes. To do that, we need to consider the cost and quality of what we buy and the broader impacts on society. However, tenders are typically scored on the basis of cost and quality only.

(Mr Principal Deputy Speaker [Mr Stalford] in the Chair)

Today, I can announce that a new policy on scoring for social value has been agreed by the Executive. Considerable work has gone into developing the policy. An initial paper was brought to the Procurement Board's first meeting in February. The feedback from that discussion was used to develop a more substantive policy paper, which was presented to the board in April. In May, an innovation lab was held with a range of stakeholders to finalise the policy and identify the support needed to implement it effectively. The main request arising from the lab was for a lead-in time of at least nine months before the new policy comes into effect. That is to allow for training to be rolled out to procurement practitioners and small organisations bidding for contracts. It will also allow time for business cases to build in any additional financial costs arising from the social benefits that are included in contracts.

The lab also highlighted the fact that this is a step into the unknown and that there may be contracts where it is not possible or appropriate to apply an aspect of the new policy. Therefore, if a Department wishes to opt out of an aspect of the policy, it must attain the approval of the relevant Minister. Opt-outs must be strongly justified by the characteristics of the specific contract and must be reported to the Central Procurement Directorate (CPD). That is a high bar, and Ministers are required under the ministerial code to abide by it. The final policy, which incorporated that feedback, was approved by the Procurement Board in June and by the Executive subsequently. I thank the board for working diligently and constructively to develop the policy and for reaching consensus on what will be a transformation in procurement practice. It is a testament to the excellent work of the Procurement Board that, when I brought the policy to the Executive, it was very much welcomed by all Ministers.

The new policy mandates that, from 1 June 2022, tenders must include a minimum of 10% of the total award criteria to social value. That minimum weighting will apply to the thresholds that are set out in public contracts regulations: service contracts valued above £123,000; and construction contracts valued above £4·7 million. Those contracts make up approximately 97% of total procurement spend. From 1 June 2023, the minimum weighting will, subject to review and Executive approval, be increased to 20%. That phased approach was requested by all stakeholders to help everyone to adjust to the new scoring arrangements in a smooth and managed way. It is worth emphasising that Departments can score for social value before 1 June 2022, they can score for social value on contracts below the thresholds, and they can assign a weighting of higher than 10%. The purpose of the policy is to set minimum standards.

The new policy underlines the importance of considering social value at the earliest possible stage. It encourages Departments to think about social value as part of the business case process, before the procurement phase gets under way. It recommends that Departments consult with communities affected by the procurement to identify the most feasible and beneficial way in which to promote social value. Departments are also required to consider the potential to reserve contracts for businesses whose primary aim is the social integration of disabled or disadvantaged persons.

My Department recently used that provision to award a contract to Ulster Supported Employment Limited (USEL). When I visited USEL a few months ago, I witnessed at first hand how it delivers an excellent service to government while adding social value by employing people with disabilities. I encourage all Departments to make greater use of that facility, and, to that end, Social Enterprise NI is developing a directory of social enterprises that could benefit from reserved contracts.

A strong message from our consultation with stakeholders was the desire for a standard framework for scoring social value. The purpose is to ensure that social value is assessed in a predictable and consistent manner. At the same time, Departments must have flexibility to select measures of social value that are appropriate to the specific contract. To balance those two objectives, the policy provides a framework of indicators that Departments can draw on as is relevant to the contract at hand. Those indicators are linked to Programme for Government outcomes, ensuring that procurement spend contributes to the Executive's objectives. They include contracts that create jobs for people in deprived areas; maximise security of supply by, for example, minimising the proximity of supply chains to the point of delivery; deliver environmental benefits, including those that facilitate the transition to net zero; safeguard the mental health of workers; and allocate a percentage of the budget to artwork or cultural activities.

While Departments will select the indicators that are relevant to the contract at hand, some social value considerations will be mandatory. If we are to eradicate poverty and create a fair and cohesive society, we have to tackle low pay. The Living Wage Foundation (LWF) provides an annual estimate of the minimum hourly wage that would provide a full-time worker with a reasonable standard of living. It currently stands at £9·50 an hour, compared with the legal minimum of £8·91 an hour. From June 2022, payment of the living wage as calculated by the Living Wage Foundation will be mandatory for all contracts. Given the Executive's significant spending power, that will be a major step forward in ending poverty pay. Any additional costs arising from that condition should be incorporated into business cases so that they are borne by government and not by businesses. Companies will also be required to adopt fair work practices for workers, which are defined by the Carnegie Trust as including terms of employment, work-life balance and workers' representation.

Departments and organisations that tender for government contracts will now begin to prepare for a new era in which social value is a key component of public procurement. Training and guidance will be developed to assist with that preparation. It is important that those who design and deliver contracts have a common understanding of the new requirements and how they will be applied in practice. Reporting arrangements will be established so that the impact of the policy can be assessed and any changes needed can be identified. I expect that the policy will evolve and develop over time. We are now also in a position to look at the legislation required to underpin the policy.

The policy ushers in a new era for the Executive to use their spending power for the common good. Scoring for social value will be of particular interest to social enterprises and community groups, which exist to deliver social benefit. It will also be good news, however, for many private enterprises that want to pay their workers a living wage and protect the environment but are worried that, if they do the right thing, they will be undercut by a lower bidder. Under the policy, good companies will be rewarded rather than penalised when they bid for government contracts. Rather than encouraging a race to the bottom, it sets high standards for how private and social enterprises conduct their business. I commend the policy and welcome Members' questions.

Keith Buchanan (DUP, Mid Ulster)

I thank the Minister for his remarks and for meeting me earlier today to discuss the statement. The Committee for Finance has previously taken evidence on social value in procurement and had hoped that related legislation would be brought forward in this mandate. Further clarity on the scoring of social value and the evaluation of public contracts would therefore be welcome.

If I may, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker, I have a question with two parts to it. In his statement, the Minister mentions the roll-out of training to procurement practitioners and small organisations. What will that training be, in general terms, and has it commenced? The Minister also mentioned the Living Wage Foundation and an increase in the hourly wage from £8·91 an hour to £9·50 an hour. Does he have an estimate of what that will equate to across the public sector annually?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Member for his comments and thank the Finance Committee for its cooperation in the development of the policy. The Strategic Investment Board (SIB) has been tasked with developing a level of training and with developing what will ultimately become reporting and monitoring.

That will be made available to those who are designing contracts, obviously, but also to those who may be on the receiving end, who bid for the contracts.

On the living wage, as I said in my statement, we want to see the Living Wage Foundation's definition of the living wage, which is more than the minimum wage, built into the business case for the contract so that the burden would not necessarily be imposed on the contractor. The total cost added as a result would depend on the contract, so it is not possible to give a standard cost; it would very much depend on the size and nature of the contract.

Maolíosa McHugh (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

Ba mhaith liom ar dtús buíochas a ghabháil leis an Aire as a ráiteas. Minister, I welcome your statement, which contains a very important message in many respects, particularly when it comes to scoring for social value. Will the policy be extended to councils?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Councils operate under a different framework for procurement, but we have had some discussions with councils, and quite a few of them have expressed an interest in incorporating social value into their procurement practices. My team on the procurement side in the Department will work with councils to give them advice, even within the framework that they currently have, to make sure that they can take maximum advantage of that ability to achieve social value. If there is a legislative change required to the councils' framework for procurement, it would be a matter for the Department for Communities. Much progress can be made on that in the time ahead, and some councils are interested in that work.

Pat Catney (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Lagan Valley)

Minister, have you engaged with businesses in the small business and microbusiness sector, many of which create huge social value but, too often, are frozen out of government procurement? What is the Minister doing to unlock the social value of those small businesses?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

As the Member knows, we changed the nature of the Procurement Board and brought people onto it. They are not there just in an individual capacity; they are there as representatives of sectors. Some of the sectors, including the social enterprise and the small and medium-sized enterprise sectors, have a voice on the board. We want them to act as conduits to their sectors, and if, for example, people who are involved in microbusinesses are raising issues about inaccessibility to government contracts, we would like to hear about them. Of course, they can talk to our procurement team in the Department as well, but they have a voice at the Procurement Board through the representatives of the various sectors. We want to ensure that there is fairness in the awarding of contracts so that people have a reasonable chance of accessing them and that, in this policy, we add social value to all that we do to make sure that it reflects the Executive's priorities as well.

John Stewart (UUP, East Antrim)

I thank the Minister for his statement and declare an interest as a member of the all-party group on social enterprise. This is something that we have been calling for for some time, and it is a good-news story in that respect. I agree with other Members: I would like to see the policy extended to arm's-length bodies and councils and to see training for the small businesses that can avail themselves of this. Will it be extended within the next two years? Will people be able to avail themselves of 100%, or will it be capped at 20% by 2034?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

It is very much an evolving policy. We are setting a score target for a contract. Initially, starting next June, the target will be 10%, which is a figure that was reached after consultation with the people on the Procurement Board who represent various sectors. That is a minimum target, so there is nothing to stop Departments going for more than that or, if they have the capacity, starting it now. In June 2023, we move to 20% as a minimum target. Again, that can be exceeded if Departments have the capability to do so or the contract allows for it. What we are setting are very much minimum standards.

It is also an evolving policy, which is why we have a reporting mechanism with it. My Department will produce an annual report, and, as I said in response to an earlier question, SIB is working up how that will be delivered, implemented and reported on so that we get an ongoing sense of the policy's impact. I see it very much as an evolving policy. If there is scope for setting a higher minimum standard, I am sure that that can be looked at in the future.

Stewart Dickson (Alliance, East Antrim)

Thank you, Minister. I declare an interest as chair of the all-party group on social enterprise. I welcome the positive move towards embedding social value in all central government and third-party contracts. It is an important step forward. However, Minister, in the all-party group, we have an objective and goal to see this embedded in legislation. When will there be a timeline for a social value Bill, and ultimately Act, in Northern Ireland?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I know that the Member has a keen interest in this, and I have welcomed his input. Obviously, first, we wanted to get the policy in place and get it to the Executive. He knows that I and all Ministers have conversations around the Executive table most weeks about the tight time frame for the significant amount of legislation that is coming through. It is my ambition to legislate for this within this mandate. Now that the policy is in place, we need to check that that can be done. If it can be done, we will do it. If it is not possible within this mandate, given other competing Executive Bills and the short time frame, I will want to get it to a place where legislation can follow quickly in the new mandate. However, if it can be done in this mandate, we will do it.

Philip McGuigan (Sinn Féin, North Antrim)

I welcome the content of the statement. Others have talked about aspects of it such as the living wage and creating jobs in deprived areas. As my party's environment spokesperson, I welcome that the policy delivers environmental benefits and transition towards net zero. On page 5 of the statement, it says:

"A strong message from our consultation with stakeholders was the desire for a standard framework for scoring social value."

Will the Minister outline how scoring for the social value policy will be enforced?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

The Member has identified a key part of the policy: we should have a standard process so that people across all Departments and people who bid for contracts become familiar with how the process works. That will give the policy a much better chance of having an outcome.

It will be enforced because it will be built into contracts. It will be part of a contract award. If people default on the contract, depending on the nature of it, there will be penalties. We want to make sure that that standard approach is maintained across all the Departments. That is why, every year, the Department of Finance will report on how it is working. Where Departments have sought deviation from it in specific circumstances, the Department of Finance will report on how that worked and why it came about. We intend that there will be an ongoing monitoring and reporting mechanism. It will be enforced in the way that all contracts are enforced: if people get a contract, they will subscribe to the terms of that contract and be expected to adhere to and honour it.

Jemma Dolan (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for his statement. What other issues is the restructured Procurement Board working on?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

The Procurement Board is working on a range of issues, including going through and updating existing procurement guidance and discarding any that is not relevant to the current era. There are initiatives to improve the delivery of major capital contracts, on which there was a report recently. Addressing supply chain resilience has been one of the main features during the pandemic, and there is a timely piece of work on that. There are also measures to approve the commissioning of community-based services. That is some of the ongoing work. A programme of work has been outlined in the Department, and I am sure that it is available to members of the Committee.

Matthew O'Toole (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

My party welcomes the statement. Minister, you have outlined the change in that this now an Executive policy and the change in guidance. What monitoring mechanisms will there be for this? What surety will you have that accounting officers are following this, and, if they are not, what sanction exists?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

As I said in response to the previous question, if someone wins a contract and this is built into it, they are duty-bound to honour that contract. There will be the normal contracting procedures. As to how this is applied across the board in a more general sense, the SIB is developing the implementation process, which will include a monitoring and reporting process.

The intention is that my Department will report annually to make sure that it is being standardised and followed through across all Departments and contracting bodies. We expect that, if somebody wins a contract on the basis of what they are going to do with regard to this policy requirement, they honour that. There will be penalties in the contract for not honouring that.

Linda Dillon (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

The Minister outlined that he would like to bring legislation forward in this mandate. Hopefully, that will happen. Is there enough support for the new policy among the Executive to ensure that, regardless of who has the Ministry in the next mandate, there will be commitment to it? I know that he cannot speak on behalf of a future Minister, but does he at least have indications from other parties and Ministers?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

We reconstituted the Procurement Board, and, rather than procurement policy being the property of the Finance Department and our Department having to attempt to get other Departments to adhere to it and follow it through, we have brought in a change that means that procurement policy is brought to the Executive for approval. The policy has Executive approval and is an Executive matter. All Ministers are duty-bound to abide by it. Unless someone brings a different policy to the Executive to undo that, an incoming Finance Minister is bound by the policy. We fully expect that. Of course, I look forward to the time when it is strengthened by legislation, but that may not be possible in this mandate. The policy is an Executive policy, and part of the reason for bringing in that change to procurement was to make sure that it had endorsement from the whole Executive. My Executive colleagues gave a warm response to the policy.

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

The Minister outlined the fact that local government has a separate procurement policy. Is the Department giving consideration to making representations to the Northern Ireland Local Government Association (NILGA) and the Society of Local Authority Chief Executives (SOLACE) on what it is doing centrally in government and encouraging them to replicate that?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Legislation that comes under the responsibility of the Department for Communities applies to procurement for councils. Some argue that it places a value on value for money rather than on social value. Even within that, there are opportunities for councils to develop. Some of them have already been in dialogue with us, and some are encouraged by it and want to take it up. The Department remains willing to talk to councillors and council organisations, such as NILGA and SOLACE, to see how they can make sure that they build in as much social value as they can, because they are significant procurers of contracts across the community, and, if they were on board, it would have a significant impact. There is a willingness there. If it requires legislative change, that would fall to the Department for Communities, but, even in the current framework, there is room for improvement in what the councils are doing, and there is an interest among some of the councils, which, perhaps, might increase when they see the roll-out. We will work with them in the time ahead if they wish to explore how to do this.

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

Before I call the next Member to speak, I welcome the new Member for Fermanagh and South Tyrone to her place. I call Ms Áine Murphy.

Áine Murphy (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. It is great news that, from June 2022, payment of the living wage will be compulsory for all contracts. No one should have to work for less than the living wage, and I warmly welcome the Minister's commitment to delivering that. Is the Minister aware of any other Government on these islands that requires contractors to pay their staff the living wage? Which sectors are likely to benefit?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I also welcome the Member to her seat. I am delighted to see her join us. She is correct that one of the key aspects of this is the living wage. It will allow many firms that wish to give their workers a decent standard the opportunity to do so and to bid for contracts and not be undercut by those who do not. That is an important part of this. As far as I am aware, the Governments in Scotland and Wales encourage or promote this but have not made it a requirement. This is probably the first institution on these islands to make this a requirement as part of contracts. In that case, we are ahead of the game. I think of significant workers. I caught the tail end of the previous discussion on the recognition of health workers. Significant numbers of people are employed in private contracts in the health service — in care homes and the caring sector — who do not necessarily get the living wage. The development of this will have a significant impact on those people, and I am glad that that will be the case.

Justin McNulty (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Minister for his statement. I welcome the thrust of the statement. My question has been asked. However, he states:

"from 1 June 2022, tenders must include a minimum of 10% of the total award criteria to social value."

In 2023, there will be a step up again. In layman's terms or in language that the dogs in the street will understand, what does that mean?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

First, it is a minimum standard. Departments can, if they wish and if they have the capability, do that now. From next year, they can have a standard of higher than 10%. In 2023, the minimum standard will, subject to Executive approval, be 20%. I have just referred to one of the key issues, which is that people will be employed using the Living Wage Foundation's living standard wage. Rather than trying to encourage people to do right by society through making environmental improvements, there is a requirement for the fair treatment of workers. A range of measures will be aligned to the Executive's Programme for Government priorities. When contracts are being designed, the selection will not be random; it will be aligned to the Executive's Programme for Government commitments.

I referenced USEL, a company that has won a government contract and is delivering that contract very well. USEL employs people with disabilities, which is social value that you can see in practice. We want to encourage more of that, and there is already a facility to encourage Departments and contracting bodies to deliver social value today. The benefit of scoring social value can be seen in a firm that delivers a very good service to government and real social value to people who would not otherwise be in the employment arena. That should not be random. I think that, across the North, only two companies deliver social value at the moment. Social value is now to be part of a minimum standard for all government contracts.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

The taxpaying public should now realise that the Executive have decided to downgrade value for money in public-sector contracts. Then, we have the added cost to the public purse of the declaration in the policy that the additional costs of the living wage will be borne by government. Yet, in an answer already given, we find that that has not been costed. Will that be an added burden on the block grant, leaving less money for health and education? Will it come out of the capital or resource budget of any Department?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

It is said that a cynic is a person:

"who knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing."

Mr Allister clearly falls into that category. He cannot see the bigger picture. Social value delivers much more than value for money. Of course, value for money is still an element in the awarding of contracts, but social value delivers much more for society. In the longer term, it will save money for the Executive. When disabled people or those with mental health issues can get back into work, that is a saving for the health service. When contractors are improving aspects of the environment through their everyday work, that is a longer-term saving for the Executive. Therefore, I invite Mr Allister to look above where he is at the moment and see the bigger picture. Value for money is much enhanced by social value, rather than simply counting the cost in pennies and shillings.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

I invite you to answer the question. What is the cost to the block grant?

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

Now, now.

Gerry Carroll (People Before Profit Alliance, Belfast West)

I thank the Minister for his statement. He mentioned:

"spending power for the common good."

I absolutely agree with that. When the policy was developed, what consideration was given to no longer awarding government contracts to organisations such as Capita? Capita has been found guilty of systemic maladministration, and many people regard it as having no social value. This policy seems to be a contradiction at a time when many millions are being funnelled into organisations such as Capita. What consideration has been given to that?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

The Member knows that the Capita contract was awarded long before this discussion took place. We want to create a better future in relation to such matters. I cannot speak to the specifics of that contract. It comes under a different Department, and I am not across all the details. Suffice it to say that this is about creating social value in the awarding of contracts. It is about changing the picture. It is about higher requirements and higher standards for the people who get public money to deliver services. It is about changing the mindset. I am not across the detail of whether that specifically applies to some of the issues that the Member raises. We want to ensure that the policy begins to deliver so that people who bid for public money to provide services and contracts to government have to meet a significantly higher standard in their dealings with broad society and in their approach to societal interests and outcomes than has perhaps been the case in the past.

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

Thank you, Minister. No other Members have indicated that they wish to ask a question. That therefore concludes questions on the statement from the Minister of Finance. I ask Members to take their ease for a few moments to allow for changes in the Chamber. The next item of business is the question for urgent oral answer, which stands in the name of Ms Linda Dillon.

I beg your pardon, Members. That is not the next item of business. The next item —.

A Member

Resign.

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

I should resign, yes.

[Laughter.]

I apologise. The next item in the Order Paper is a motion to approve a statutory rule.

Executive Committee Business

Paul Frew (DUP, North Antrim)

I beg to move

That the Corporate Insolvency and Governance Act 2020 (Coronavirus) (Amendment of Certain Relevant Periods) (No. 2) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2021 be approved.

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

The Business Committee has agreed that there should be no time limit on the debate. I call the Minister to open the debate on the motion.

Paul Frew (DUP, North Antrim)

I seek the Assembly's approval of a statutory rule (SR) that has been made under powers contained in the Corporate Insolvency and Governance Act 2020. The Act came into law at Westminster on 25 June 2020 and includes permanent amendments and temporary modifications to insolvency legislation as it applies in Great Britain. Corresponding amendments and modifications to Northern Ireland's insolvency legislation were included in the Act under a legislative consent motion that was passed by the Assembly. The temporary modifications were made to assist companies that were adversely affected by the measures taken to prevent the spread of coronavirus. They were to be applied during what was termed "the relevant period". The Act originally provided for all those measures to expire on 30 September 2020. As we know, however, the pandemic and the restrictions imposed as a result have had a deeper and longer-lasting impact on society and the economy than was originally envisaged. That led to the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (BEIS) making a series of extensions to the temporary modifications as they apply in Great Britain.

One of the key principles behind making the Act was that the modifications that it made to insolvency legislation should apply equally throughout the United Kingdom. That was done to ensure a level playing field so that companies in all parts of the United Kingdom would benefit from the same support and assistance and so that none would be at a disadvantage. In accordance with that principle, each time a measure was extended at Westminster, regulations to extend the corresponding temporary modifications for Northern Ireland were brought to the Assembly.

With the gradual opening up of the economy across the United Kingdom, the need for the temporary easements has reduced. The Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy has advised that just two of the temporary modifications to insolvency legislation that apply in Great Britain are to be further extended for what is expected to be a final time. The first is a prohibition on the presentation of petitions to have companies wound up where the statutory demand is served during the relevant period. The second is a prohibition on the presentation of winding-up petitions by creditors and the making of winding-up orders where coronavirus has had an effect on the company's finances. Those two measures, which were due to expire on 30 June 2021, are to be kept in place until 30 September 2021. That is being done with the aim of providing further support to companies in sectors such as hospitality and non-essential retail, which have been most severely impacted on by the restrictions imposed to curb the spread of coronavirus.

The aim is to prevent action being taken by creditors to wind up those companies before they have had a chance to regain their solvency by trading for a reasonable period. To ensure that Northern Ireland companies benefit from the same easements and are not at a disadvantage compared with their GB counterparts, the same modifications to Northern Ireland's insolvency legislation are being extended until 30 September 2021.

That is the purpose of the regulations, and I now ask the Assembly to approve them. The regulations have been agreed by the Economy Committee, and the Executive were advised prior to the debate.

I ask the Assembly to approve the regulations.

Caoimhe Archibald (Sinn Féin, East Londonderry)

As Chair of the Economy Committee, I support the motion on the Committee's behalf. As the Minister indicated, the amendment of the relevant periods in the regulations will assist companies affected by the coronavirus pandemic. The regulations extend the duration of temporary measures restricting the use of statutory demands and winding-up petitions, introduced by the Act, from 30 June to 30 September 2021. The Committee agreed the statutory rule (SR) at its meeting on 23 June, subject to the report of the Examiner of Statutory Rules, and the rule came into operation on 29 June. The Examiner of Statutory Rules has no issue with the rule, and, on the Committee's behalf, I support the motion to confirm it.

I will now speak briefly on behalf of Sinn Féin. As has been set out, the SR is one of a number tabled during the pandemic that are designed to provide some relaxations and assistance to businesses. As we know, the pandemic has continued for much longer than many expected or anticipated. It is therefore important that we continue to support businesses to enable them to recover. Sinn Féin therefore supports the SR.

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

No other Members have indicated that they wish to speak in the debate. I therefore call the Minister to make a winding-up speech.

Paul Frew (DUP, North Antrim)

Thank you very much, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker. I thank the House and the Economy Committee for their support for the statutory rule. Without further ado, I commend the motion to the House.

Question put and agreed to. Resolved:

That the Corporate Insolvency and Governance Act 2020 (Coronavirus) (Amendment of Certain Relevant Periods) (No. 2) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2021 be approved.

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

I ask Members to take their ease for a few moments before we move on to the next item of business.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I beg to move

That the Sea Fish Industry (Coronavirus) (Fixed Costs) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2021 be affirmed.

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

The Business Committee has agreed that there should be no time limit on the debate. I call the Minister to open the debate on the motion.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Apologies, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker, for being slightly late. We were told that the debate would be at 4.30 pm, but then it came up on the screen. I had a bit of a rush down, but I am here now.

Members will recall that, on 3 April 2020, I announced an initial £1·5 million support package to ensure that the Northern Ireland fishing industry was supported through the COVID-19 pandemic. That financial support package was in response to the unprecedented difficulties brought about by the COVID-19 pandemic, which had an immediate impact on the industry after the introduction of social-distancing measures and the collapse of the European and domestic fish markets.

The Northern Ireland fishing industry faced extreme difficulties as a result of COVID-19. It was in urgent need of support to ensure that there was a profitable fishing industry to return to once COVID-19 subsided. As the COVID-19 pandemic continued to have a significant impact, I announced a second financial support package for the sea fishing industry on 5 October 2020. Part of that second package was a scheme specifically to assist with the fixed costs of the fishing vessels of commercial fishermen that deploy static gear, such as pots and creels, typically to target crabs and lobsters. That sector continued to be badly affected by the closure of the hospitality sector.

The scheme covered the period from 1 September 2020 to December 2020. The regulations, which are the subject of this motion, provided for the financial assistance scheme and were developed in consultation with the main sea fishing industry organisations in response to my announcement on 5 October 2020. The regulations were made under powers conferred on my Department by the Fisheries Act 2020.

Under those regulations, Northern Ireland fishing boats were eligible for support if they: had a valid safety certificate issued by the Maritime and Coastguard Agency; at the date of the application, were insured for the purposes of commercial sea fishing; had, during the period 1 November 2018 to 31 October 2020, conducted more than 50% of their sea fishing activity using static fishing gear; had, during the period 1 November 2018 to 31 October 2020, landed more than 50% of their value of declared sea fish landings into ports in the United Kingdom; had declared sea fish landings for the year 2019 that were valued at £10,000 or more; and had a minimum of 12 declared sea fish landings during the period 1 June 2020 to 31 October 2020.

The financial assistance that was available to eligible Northern Ireland fishing boats under the scheme was calculated at 50% of the potting fleet's average monthly fixed costs, as evidenced in their previous three financial years. The support covered a maximum of four months, and the total maximum amount payable for each month was capped at £1,250 and a total of £5,000 over the four-month period under the scheme. It was specifically designed to assist the smaller inshore vessels, which target shellfish such as crabs and lobsters. Just over £142,000 in total will be received by 51 vessels.

The regulations that you are being asked to affirm today replace a previous scheme that was made under the confirmatory procedure in March 2021. Unfortunately, that scheme was made under repealed primary powers and had to be remade and laid under powers under the Fisheries Act 2020. Before it was brought to my Department's attention that the previous scheme had no legal effect, it had made payments totalling £139,000 to 49 vessel owners. As soon as my Department became aware of the issue with the scheme, it stopped making payments under it and brought in the replacement regulations. The regulations allow the owners of the remaining eligible vessels to be paid and bring the total amount of payments to the potting fleet to just over £142,000.

Since the start of the pandemic, my Department has been actively engaging with all sectors in the sea fishing industry to deliver a number of financial assistance packages to overcome the immediate impacts of COVID-19 on their businesses. The latest scheme brings the total amount of support to the sea fishing industry to £2·87 million, of which £287,000 was specifically for aquaculture.

I thank the Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee for its prompt scrutiny of the SL1 for this statutory rule that provides financial assistance to the potting fleet.

Philip McGuigan (Sinn Féin, North Antrim)

I welcome the opportunity to outline the views of the Committee.

The Committee considered the regulations at SL1 stage on 10 June 2021 and welcomes the introduction of the scheme that extends a compensatory package that was initially introduced in October 2020 in order to support sea fishing vessels in respect of their fixed costs. The regulations will enable two additional vessels to claim compensation in addition to the 49 vessels that have already made successful applications.

The Committee is aware of the significant challenges that have been placed on the local sea fishing industry due to COVID-19, which led to a sharp and dramatic fall in the demand for fish and shellfish products, a huge drop in market prices and economic challenges for fishing communities. The significant financial support that has been provided to the sector by local and national Governments throughout the last 18 months has been welcome, and the regulations will go some way to extending that support. However, the Committee is conscious that the industry still faces stark challenges in price recovery given the phased easement of restrictions in the hospitality and tourism sector and different levels of lockdown across Europe. Therefore, financial support will be required in the short and medium term to stabilise the sector and ensure a viable recovery from the impact of the pandemic.

The Committee was content with the merits of the policy at SL1 stage and raised no issues. At its meeting on 24 June, the Committee considered the advice of the Examiner of Statutory Rules, who drew no specific attention to issues of concern. Therefore, the Committee is content with the proposals from the Department and recommends that the Assembly confirm the statutory rule.

William Irwin (DUP, Newry and Armagh)

I welcome the motion. As I have stated many times in the House over the past year, COVID-19 and dealing with its health and economic effects have been hugely challenging for everyone, not least our Departments, and in the Assembly and Executive.

While some industries undoubtedly thrived during the pandemic, even those industries had to adapt to keep pace with what has been a very changeable picture. As I said previously, the agri-food sector really stepped up to the mark when other industries were having to wind down and, in many ways, had to redouble its efforts to meet increasing demand and panic purchasing and to ensure that it was able to place food on the shelves. That, of course, brought many challenges, and, as with our sea fishing community, COVID-19 had an impact.

In line with other payments that have been made to other industries and sectors, it was important that our hard-working fishermen also received financial aid. To that end, it is important to note that our fishing sector received the greatest level of support of any fishing sector in the British Isles, and I thank Minister Poots and his officials for listening to the needs of the industry and moving towards a scheme of support that responded to those needs in a practical manner. I am interested to enquire of the Minister what additional support will be made available for COVID recovery and his views on the UK-wide Seafood Response Fund. I support the motion and welcome the views of the Minister on the points that have been raised.

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

The global COVID-19 pandemic had an immediate and significant financial impact on the sea fishing sector. The collapse of European and domestic fish markets as a consequence of restrictions on movements in line with public health guidance, and further restrictions on the hospitality sectors, made trading virtually impossible.

My colleagues Stephen Farry MP, John Blair MLA and councillors Patrick Brown and Andrew McMurray have continued to engage with and meet representatives of the fishing industry to discuss future opportunities for developing the fishing and seafood sector in Northern Ireland and to identify prospects to further promote our excellent local food product.

The financial support scheme for fishing vessel owners in the Northern Ireland fleet, whose incomes have been significantly affected by the impacts of COVID-19, is welcome. On behalf of the Alliance Party, I support the Department's intervention. My colleagues and I remain hopeful that some outstanding matters, including a permanent commitment to Northern Ireland boats being able to land products at local ports without checks, and the exclusion of Northern Ireland boats from all but two ports in Northern Ireland, can be resolved.

The Alliance Party will continue to engage with the Department on those matters in order to secure a successful outcome for Irish sea fisheries, support our fishing communities and safeguard Northern Ireland fishing for future generations. As outlined in the recent Alliance Party 'Green New Deal' document, we are committed to supporting the fishing industry so that it can prosper and achieve environmental sustainability in the long term and to ensuring that the capacity of fleets is economically viable and does not compromise the marine ecosystems and overexploit marine stocks.

On behalf of the Alliance Party, I support the regulations to support the sector, deliver economic, social and employment benefits and contribute to the availability of our food supplies.

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

No other Members have indicated that they wish to speak. I call the Minister to wind on the debate.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I appreciate the comments made by Members in response to the issues that I have brought to their attention today. A couple of questions were raised about additional funding for COVID-19. The UK-wide Seafood Response Fund was a further bonus for the local fleet of potters and trawlers. That covered support towards fishing vessels' fixed costs during the first quarter of 2020-21. In total, 144 Northern Ireland fishing vessel owners secured £1·212 million in financial assistance. The scheme was administered across the UK by the Marine Management Organisation. My officials are considering a submission from the Northern Ireland Fishermen's Federation for further COVID-19 support for the period from April to June 2021.

I published a final report on the fishing and seafood development programme on 5 May 2021. It was a strategic review of the opportunities for developing the sea fishing and seafood sectors in Northern Ireland as a whole, including the potential role of new public investment in infrastructure. The report focuses on recommendations on capital investment at the main fishery harbours and highlights a number of challenges and opportunities for the wider industry that could be addressed through a future fisheries financial support scheme.

The report marks the beginning of a new chapter in the history of the fishing industry here. It highlights the considerable investment that is required to help the industry to adapt to the challenges that it faces and to grasp the opportunities presented following the UK's exit from the European Union. Northern Ireland needs to build a stronger, more resilient fishing and seafood industry that can adapt to change. Of course, that will not be easy, but I hope that, with government and industry working together, we can build new infrastructure, become more prosperous, improve the marine environment and enhance our reputation as suppliers of quality sustainable seafood.

My Department is finalising the business case to inform decisions about procuring the detailed environmental and technical studies that will be needed to take the harbour proposals forward. I thank all Members who commented.

Question put and agreed to. Resolved:

That the Sea Fish Industry (Coronavirus) (Fixed Costs) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2021 be affirmed.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I beg to introduce the Climate Change (No. 2) Bill [NIA 28/17-22], which is a Bill to set targets for the years 2050, 2040 and 2030 for the reduction of greenhouse gas emissions; to provide for a system of carbon budgeting; to provide for reporting and statements against those targets and budgets; to confer power to impose climate change reporting duties on public bodies; to provide for reports and advice from the Committee on Climate Change; and for connected purposes.

Bill passed First Stage and ordered to be printed.

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

Members, it is 1.50 pm, and Question Time is due to start at 2.00 pm. By your leave, we will suspend the sitting until then.

The sitting was suspended at 1.50 pm.

On resuming (Mr Deputy Speaker [Mr McGlone] in the Chair) —

Oral Answers to Questions — Finance

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

A number of questions have been withdrawn: question 5 and topical question 3 by Gerry Kelly and topical question 10 by Dolores Kelly.

Paula Bradley (DUP, Belfast North)

1. Ms P Bradley asked the Minister of Finance for an update on plans for a 12-month non-domestic rates holiday for the 2021-22 rating year. (AQO 2323/17-22)

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I am pleased to say that a further 12-month non-domestic rates holiday has been fully implemented and is now providing a further £230 million of support for businesses dealing with the impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic. That package of support goes well beyond what has been given in England and demonstrates the Executive's commitment to providing certainty and support for businesses. It means that the additional rates support provided to business over two years amounts to more than half a billion pounds. The legislation for the additional holiday came into operation on 7 May. The regulations provide details of the businesses that are eligible for this support, helping to ensure that some 29,000 businesses continue to have a rates-free period.

Paula Bradley (DUP, Belfast North)

I thank the Minister for his answer. Have we any indication of how this will affect the overall Budget, especially the budget of local councils?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Local councils' intake on rates is protected, as it was during the last financial year. In many ways, it is actually a benefit for councils. If a business happens to fail through the course of the year, that rates income has been protected for them.

It cost us, as I said, over half a billion pounds. That was from COVID money that came to us from London as Barnett consequentials. It was not out of the original baseline budgets; it was additional COVID money. Nonetheless, it is important for those businesses. Quite a lot of them identified, as one of their primary requests, that bill being taken off the table for them in order to secure some certainty.

Maolíosa McHugh (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire fosta as a fhreagra. Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I also thank the Minister for his answer. Minister, given the Executive's reliance on rates, do you agree that the fiscal commission provides an opportunity to consider other sources of funding in an effort to raise revenue in the Six Counties?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

The fiscal commission has just begun its work. I was pleased to meet it last week to get an update on what is happening with it. It will look at the totality of fiscal powers that may become available to an Executive. If such a proposal were put forward and agreed by the Executive, that would involve a negotiation with the Treasury.

Rates bring in about 10% of our Budget. Clearly, they are a very important source of revenue for the Executive and are used to support our public services. It is timely that we have the fiscal commission looking at the broad range of powers that may become available to us, and that there is an informed debate about those in the Assembly and in the public generally.

Kellie Armstrong (Alliance, Strangford)

Minister, will you work with the Minister for Communities to lobby the Treasury to allow councils to utilise capitalisation schemes, given the additional financial strain caused by the pandemic? Can you reassure the House that businesses will not face a cliff edge at the end of reliefs in April 2022?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

We regularly engage with Treasury on behalf of a range of Departments. If the Department for Communities has such a request, we are more than happy to work with it on that and to engage with Treasury.

We had the initial year-long rates holiday. We were then able to extend that. At the start, we thought that that may be for just six months, but, because of additional COVID money, we were able to extend it. That will be two full years' rates holiday, which is a significant contribution to a lot of businesses at a cost of around half a billion pounds. We do not have any projection for further COVID money. It is unlikely that, beyond that period, we will have that type of money to give as support for businesses. Of course, we have fully funded the economic recovery package that the Department for the Economy is bringing forward. That will, hopefully, stimulate businesses so that they can get back to a level of trading that means that they are in a better position to meet any other bills that come in.

Pat Catney (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Lagan Valley)

Minister, we welcome whatever help has gone out to small businesses, but the re-examination of non-domestic and regional rates must feed in to a broader examination of Northern Ireland's fiscal powers and how they match the long-term economic challenges if businesses are to have any chance of recovering from the pandemic.

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

The look at non-domestic rates is ongoing. We are beginning a revaluation exercise in a much shorter time frame than has ever been done here before. That, again, was a request from businesses; they did not want a sudden jump in rates or a sudden redistribution between sectors through a revaluation exercise. It will take account of the pandemic.

Of course, we continue to engage with businesses. I engaged with some of them over the past number of weeks in relation to the ongoing review and reform of rates generally. With the rates holiday, it went almost unnoticed that there was an 18% reduction in non-domestic rates, which was very much welcomed by other businesses that could not avail themselves of the rates holiday. We continue to engage with business, and we will do the revaluation exercise and look to how we can improve the rates picture. It is vital income for us for public services, but we know that it is a significant bill for a lot of businesses.

Karen Mullan (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

2. Ms Mullan asked the Minister of Finance for an update on the reform of non-domestic regional rates. (AQO 2324/17-22)

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I am planning to keep non-domestic rates under close scrutiny as we emerge from the pandemic. My Department's 2019 review of business rates was undertaken in completely different circumstances to those now faced by our economy. The review provided some important insights, and I am pleased that significant progress has been made in respect of many of the issues highlighted during the public consultation. The overall high level of business rates and the balance of business rates to domestic rates were raised as issues during the public consultation. In response, I have reduced the regional business rate by 18% for 2020-21 and have held the rate at the reduced amount for 2021-22. I extended the small business rate relief scheme and restored the rural ATM relief scheme in response to feedback received. I have also made two changes that had been sought to assist district councils in relation to district rates. Finally, I recently announced the revaluation of non-domestic properties, which was another issue highlighted during the consultation.

As you are aware, rates are one of the few revenue-raising powers available to the Executive to generate funding for vital public services. I have established a fiscal commission to examine the case for increasing the fiscal powers available to us.

Karen Mullan (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

I thank the Minister for his answer. I welcome his commitment to ensuring that the rates bill for businesses has taken into account the impact of the pandemic over the past 18 months. Will the Minister provide an update on Reval 2023?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I recently announced that revaluation for non-domestic properties. It delivers on a commitment to have more frequent revaluations. The pandemic has had a dramatic impact on the economy, resulting in changes between business sectors. That will feed through to changes in the rental values of many properties. The last revaluation exercise was just over a year ago, but I have asked Land and Property Services (LPS) to bring forward another revaluation in the shortest possible time. Reval 2023 will maintain fairness and ensure that businesses pay rates that take account of the impact of the pandemic. Values will be based on rental evidence on 1 October 2021.

Peter Weir (DUP, Strangford)

The Minister outlined the levels of relief during COVID, which is very welcome. What thinking is being given to transitional arrangements so that the 18% reduction that he mentioned does not suddenly escalate in one jump to a position in which much higher rates have to be paid?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

The reduction was in response to long-term lobbying before I became Finance Minister. There was a recognition in the Department that our business rates are much higher than, basically, anywhere else, so the 18% reduction was an attempt to address that. The Member will understand that the Executive need all the finances available to them, but I do not see any logic in trying to put rates back up, particularly given the economic downturn that will undoubtedly follow the pandemic. The Executive's objective, as the Member knows from his time there, was to keep businesses afloat and to support high streets and local businesses as best we could. I do not see the Executive agreeing to an exercise that would put a lot of businesses in significant danger of going out of business. I do not foresee circumstances in which the sudden increase that the Member mentioned would come about. Of course, the revaluation exercise is a redistribution of the rates burden among businesses. It is important to do that frequently to make sure that there is no sudden jolt from a valuation made seven, eight or nine years ago up to a new valuation that might create a higher level of change. We will continue with the objective to support businesses in the time ahead, including through the rates.

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

I acknowledge the measures that have been taken over the last period, such as the actual percentage decrease, the commitment to Reval 2023 and the reliefs that have been put in place. The last review was done in-house by Land and Property Services in 2019. Does the Minister accept that, in order for the business community to have confidence in the rating system, there needs to be an independent review of that system similar to that which took place in Scotland under the Barclay review?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I have met business organisations more frequently, probably, than ever over the course of the pandemic to address a range of issues in relation to business support but also on the rates issue. I have never had the sense that people do not trust the Department to do a rates review. What they want is maximum consultation, and that is already beginning again. About two weeks ago, I had a meeting in the Department with business organisations to discuss the idea of review. Again, I think that people are content for the Department to do that. They want to be assured that the process is open and transparent and that there is significant consultation.

Different interests are at play in what the Department needs to do and what businesses would like to see. That is understandable, but we have to find a system that is fair and recognises not only the burdens that businesses are under but the fact that the Executive require the resource to support public services. To be honest, I do not have plans to carry out an independent review, but I intend to continue the dialogue with businesses and business organisations to make sure that whatever the Department does is transparent and accessible to them and they can make their points of view known.

Rachel Woods (Green, North Down)

The Minister has outlined the rates review and the policy issues that have been looked at. In the last number of financial years, has policy or legislation changed the process for calculating business rates?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Not that I am aware of and certainly not in my time. I presume that, if there was legislative change, it did not happen in the previous three years. No legislation went through here during that time. If it was a policy change, I will be happy to look at that and come back to the Member. It certainly has not happened in my time. We have been focused on responding to business needs during the pandemic. The intent of the rates policy is to respond to and implement some of the issues raised in the consultation that took place in, I think, 2018 or 2017. Sorry, it was in 2019, just before I came into office. I want to continue to engage with business in the time ahead as we review the policies.

Doug Beattie (UUP, Upper Bann)

3. Mr Beattie asked the Minister of Finance for an update on the work of the fiscal commission. (AQO 2325/17-22)

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I met the chair and members of the fiscal commission again last week, and they provided me with an update on their important work to date. The commission acts independently of ministerial and departmental direction, and our agenda covered practical operational issues. They indicated that, as part of their work programme, they have begun meeting a wide range of stakeholders, which, I understand, included a discussion with the Member on 21 June as part of their engagement with political parties.

I am pleased with the progress that they set out in our meeting and that they are on target to deliver their final report to me before the end of the current mandate, setting out their recommendations for future tax-varying and revenue-raising powers here. The incoming Executive can use that as a basis for setting their future position on fiscal devolution issues.

Doug Beattie (UUP, Upper Bann)

I thank the Minister. He is right: I had a fascinating meeting with the commission. We discussed one of the criteria for extra tax-varying and revenue-raising powers, which is the stability of the institutions here. What is his assessment of how stable we are? I am not asking whether the institutions will be toppled. Will our instability prevent our being able to use extra tax-raising powers?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

If there is a recommendation to an incoming Executive to do that, a discussion and negotiation with Treasury will begin. I presume that one of the issues to come up would be the stability of the institutions. The Member knows as well as I do that nothing is ever certain in politics and that, while we can assume that things are going along on an even keel, events often come along to upend that. In some ways, the pandemic was destabilising to our public services, but it was also a solidifying exercise for the parties in the Executive to have to pull together to face the emergency. Nonetheless, there has been significant instability, particularly in one of the Executive parties, and that has had an impact.

This will be a long enough process, because the report will come back to us and will then have to be considered. I hope that it will generate a debate, not only in this institution but among the wider public. An incoming Executive will have to take a view, which will then begin a period of dialogue with Treasury. There will be ample chance to prove the stability of this institution over that time.

Philip McGuigan (Sinn Féin, North Antrim)

The Minister will be aware that the way in which businesses and consumers carry out transactions is changing and will continue to change. I thank the Minister for his update on the work of the fiscal commission. As part of its wider remit, will the fiscal commission consider an online sales tax to help level the playing field between bricks-and-mortar businesses and those that sell online?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

That is an issue that has been raised many times, because there has been a sense of unfairness, particularly during the pandemic when our high street business had to close their doors and online trading became all the more important. Online businesses do not have the rates burden that a lot of smaller and more local businesses have.

Taxation issues are within the Treasury's remit, and I understand that it is looking at that area for online businesses, so it will be interesting to see what comes out of that. I am sure that the fiscal commission will take evidence from people on where they would like to see powers devolved to us, but, as I said, the Treasury is looking at the issue, and we would like to get a handle on its take on how that can be done. From the representations that I get, however, not just from businesses but from other MLAs, there is a growing sense that there is unfairness in the arrangement when it comes to local businesses on the high street and those with an online presence, which have little if any rates burden attached to them.

Matthew O'Toole (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

Minister, as you know, my party and I have been strongly supportive of the setting up of the fiscal commission. You mentioned that you expect it to report to you and your Department by the end of the mandate. Will that report be laid in the Assembly? You have just said that you think that it should generate debate in the Assembly, but, in order to generate that debate, surely we have to be able to read it. Can you confirm that the report will go not just to your Department? I am not accusing your Department of malfeasance; I am just saying that it would be good for the report to be laid in the Assembly so that we can all read it when it is ready to go.

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I am glad to hear that. The fiscal commission is an independent body. We will give it whatever support it needs, but we are not directing it in any fashion. It has been asked to report to me. My understanding is that it intends to produce some time in the autumn an interim report that would also be a good stimulant to public debate and perhaps further consultation and input from the public, political parties, business institutions, trade unions and others into the final report. The purpose was to stimulate debate and hopefully influence the Executive to engage, as has happened in Scotland and Wales for many years, with the discussion in an informed way so that an incoming Executive and an incoming Assembly can take decisions based on solid information. Of course, that means that the interim and final report will have to be public, and I am happy to lay them in the Assembly and table them for debate or to do whatever is required to ensure that that happens.

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

4. Mr O'Dowd asked the Minister of Finance for an update on the top-up grant schemes from his Department that were announced on 27 May 2021. (AQO 2326/17-22)

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

To date, the £10,000 top-up payments have been issued to 1,173 businesses that received the £25,000 retail, hospitality, tourism and leisure grant last year. The total value of those payments is £11·5 million. The £5,000 top-up payments have been issued to 12,114 businesses that received the £10,000 small business support grant last year. The total value of those payments to date is £60·4 million.

Businesses that did not receive an automatic top-up payment and any business that started to trade between 20 May 2020 and 1 March 2021 have been able to apply for the top-up grant since the 30 June 2021.

I expect the payments resulting from those applications to start issuing to businesses before the end of this month.

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

I thank the Minister for his answer, and I welcome the intervention that his Department has made, particularly the latest top-up payments to many businesses that were relying on them.

Has the Minister any thoughts on businesses that have multiple premises? Will support be offered to them?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

We have long recognised that a number of sectors — multiples are one of them — were not able to avail themselves of much if any support over the course of the pandemic. Therefore, we have been striving to find a way or encouraging other Departments to find a way to provide support to those businesses.

We have engaged with people who represent multiples over the last while, and we are committed to looking at a scheme that, we hope, will provide them with some support in the autumn. We will work that through with them.

Justin McNulty (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

Minister, 13,000 businesses did not qualify for support during the most recent lockdown. They were not forced to close but, nonetheless, were seriously impacted due to the "Stay at Home" message. Will the Minister confirm that all of those businesses, many of which are family-owned and part of the community, have received grants from his Department?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

We have endeavoured to provide support, but we had to do that by regulation. The regulations are brought forward by the Health Department, and it tells us which businesses are obliged to close and which can remain open. We cannot, by law, pay businesses that remained open under the local restrictions support scheme (LRSS) scheme. We are forbidden to do so, so we have tried to find other ways to support those. Included, in my answer to this question, is the £10,000 top-up and the £5,000 top-up, where businesses that could remain open were able to avail themselves of that support. I cannot guarantee that that covers absolutely every business because some businesses were excluded on the basis that they were operating quite well during the lockdown. Some businesses experienced an upturn in trade.

As far as we can, we have been not only administering the LRSS scheme to so many businesses but using the money that was left over at the end of the financial year to generate a scheme such as this, which will support further businesses. This top-up scheme alone has delivered over £70 million across businesses, with more to go out as businesses apply for it.

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

I thank all the staff in the Minister's Department for the work that they have done in distributing the grant assistance for well over a year, in challenging circumstances.

The public health restrictions are still in place, and they affect businesses in many ways. To give an example, in a public house, you do not go to the bar; it is all table service. Businesses that operate slot machines have contacted me because their businesses have collapsed because people are not walking around the bar. Has any consideration being given to assisting businesses that are still affected by the public health restrictions? For some, it is proving difficult to continue.

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

There was always a recognition that, no matter what support we could distribute through all of the grant schemes that we and the Department for the Economy and the Department for Communities administered, it was never going to replace lost trade. We do not have the resources to do that. It was to give businesses a fighting chance of staying in business until such times as we could get back to normal trading after the pandemic.

The regulations on what we can do in this regard are set by Health. They determine which businesses should close and which can remain open, and we were not allowed, by law, to assist businesses that were not required to close. We always recognised that, even where businesses were allowed to open up. That is why the rates holiday was applied to certain sectors of businesses, those that, we recognised, would continue to struggle, particularly in the hospitality and tourism sector. Even if their businesses were allowed to open, the restrictions that they had to operate under would mean that they would do less business. The rates holiday was one way to try to offset some of that, but there was always the recognition that support would never replace the lost trade. It was really just to give businesses a fighting chance to stay open until such times as they came back to full trade.

Declan McAleer (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

6. Mr McAleer asked the Minister of Finance for an update on the work of the Executive subcommittee on reform following the RHI Inquiry. (AQO 2328/17-22)

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

In line with the New Decade, New Approach (NDNA) commitment, the Executive subcommittee on reform was established to consider the recommendations of the renewable heat incentive (RHI) report in full and oversee their implementation. The subcommittee met in July, November and December 2020. Members of the Executive subcommittee agreed a draft report setting out the response to the inquiry and the actions that are required to fulfil the remaining recommendations of the inquiry report. The report was forwarded to the Executive for agreement on 26 March this year. The subcommittee agreed a number of changes to the guidance for Ministers and the special adviser code of conduct in light of the recommendations of the inquiry. They have also been provided to the Executive Office for consideration.

Declan McAleer (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

I thank the Minister for his response. Does the Minister agree that, if the public are to have confidence in the institutions, there should be no delay in the implementation of the recommendations of the RHI report?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I agree with the Member. It is a source of some frustration to me that, a number of months on from when the report was submitted to the Executive, we are still waiting for it to be dealt with. The subcommittee was made up of representation from all parties in the Executive, and the report was agreed by all members of the subcommittee, so I struggle to understand the delay in getting it to the Executive proper and getting it agreed and implemented. I agree with him that the longer it runs on, the more it damages confidence that the Executive will respond to the issues that were raised in the report in a proper and timely fashion.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Given the excessive delay by the Executive, maybe it is a good thing that we got through some reforms under the Functioning of Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act (Northern Ireland) 2021. For many people, when they viewed the wreckage of RHI and the mishandling of things, the other burning question, as well as reform, was, "Is there any discipline?". Will the Minister update the House on whether anyone in the Civil Service been disciplined for their actions or inactions during RHI? Did bringing forward retirement cause many to escape discipline?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

As the Member knows from his membership of the Finance Committee, a number of civil servants were reported for further investigation and potential disciplinary issues resulting from that. Some people retired in the interim, which is unfortunate for a proper and publicly understood outcome to the inquiry's recommendations. There are ongoing matters, because there are some legal matters being challenged. They have not yet concluded. We have undertaken to provide the Committee with as much information as we can, subject to legal advice on ongoing legal matters.

Kellie Armstrong (Alliance, Strangford)

Will the Minister provide his initial assessment of the impact of the Functioning of Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act on the workings of the Executive and special advisers?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I spoke against that Bill. I made my views on it clear. I thought that some of the propositions in the Bill were impractical and that some probably contradicted the delivery of good government. Nonetheless, the Bill was passed in its final format once amendments were sorted through by the Assembly. The Department immediately, as it was obliged to do, provided a report to all Departments on what they need to do to make sure that they observe the legislation that was passed. That has caused some changes in reporting and recording matters. A lot of those issues were already addressed in the RHI report and would have come through by way of the Executive's subcommittee and the Executive response anyway. However, we have ensured that the matters that flow from the Act have been distilled and distributed to all Departments to make sure that people fully understand the requirements that are now in law.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

Tá an t-am againn faoi choinne ceist ghasta. We have time for a quick question.

Cathal Boylan (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

7. Mr Boylan asked the Minister of Finance for an update on the New Decade, New Approach commitment of a review of arm's-length bodies. (AQO 2329/17-22)

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

New Decade, New Approach commitments envisage that the number of arm's-length bodies (ALBs) will be rationalised and that there will be efficiency savings, a strengthening of democratic control and improved accountability. In June 2020, the Executive agreed to a review of ALBs to meet that commitment. Following that initial analysis, the Executive have now been asked to agree to the way forward in the review of arm’s-length bodies. Subject to the Executive's decision, it will be for individual Departments to consider the way forward for their respective ALBs on an organisation-by-organisation basis. In line with the NDNA priority, the Department of Finance will maintain and publish a record of ALB reviews and outcomes. The Department of Finance is preparing legislation that will enable Departments to make any changes that are required as a result of the reviews.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

That ends the period for listed questions. We move to 15 minutes of topical questions.

Doug Beattie (UUP, Upper Bann)

T1. Mr Beattie asked the Minister of Finance whether he will consider funding Informing Choices NI, which is the central access point for abortion here and is about to run out of funding. (AQT 1501/17-22)

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Normally, funding requests come from a Department that has a responsibility for or a relationship with an organisation. I am happy to consider any requests for assistance that might come forward from a Department. I am sure that vital services are being provided for women, but, rather than the Department of Finance going out to look for it, it would require the sponsoring Department within the ambit of which the organisation operates to come forward. I assume that that will be the Department of Health or, perhaps, the Department of Justice. However, if such a request comes in, I am more than happy to consider it with the relevant Department and to talk to the Executive.

Doug Beattie (UUP, Upper Bann)

I thank the Minister. As he has identified, this is an important service for women. We are talking about a relatively small amount of money: £150,000 for the year. The health service is under pressure with regard to waiting lists and the mental health strategy. I do not have a follow-on question, but I take on board what the Minister has said.

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

As I said, I am happy to look at the request. I remind the Member that it is not just Departments that are sources of funding. There are voluntary and community sector groups, and the National Lottery delivers the dormant accounts fund, which looks at resilience to make sure that organisations do not go out of existence because of a lack of support. A number of organisations support charities and other groups like that. By all means, I am happy to look at that, but Informing Choices NI should look at other sources of funding.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

The Member is not in his place for question 2, and question 3 has been withdrawn.

Paula Bradley (DUP, Belfast North)

T4. Ms P Bradley asked the Minister of Finance, who will know that social clauses have been in place in the Department for Communities for some years, particularly in building homes in the social sector, how he sees those working alongside the social scoring value model that he announced this morning. (AQT 1504/17-22)

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I see it as an enhancement. In my time at the Department for Regional Development (DRD), we had social clauses for some Roads Service contracts to try to achieve good social outcomes. The problem was that it was intermittent and had no uniform standard process to assess or score social value. The paper that I brought to the Executive and reported to the Assembly today will bring a standardised process to all Departments. There will be a minimum threshold, which will enhance the good work that some Departments have been doing to create social value. It will ensure that those awarding contracts and those bidding for them understand clearly what is required and operate on the same playing field. That will lead not only to better outcomes but to better social outcomes.

Paula Bradley (DUP, Belfast North)

I thank the Minister for his answer. As he knows, many of the social clauses cannot be utilised, especially in the construction sector, as they were not written very well and have been around for a long time. Has the Minister had any conversations with the Minister for the Economy about apprenticeships? In today's statement, the Minister mentioned bringing jobs to deprived areas. I can see how the social model could work in those areas.

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

The discussion on the matter went to the Executive. Part of the change to procurement is that, rather than being a Department of Finance policy that it must try to get other Departments to adopt, it has been brought to the entire Executive and has their stamp of approval and will get a uniform approach from Departments because Ministers are obliged to follow through on it. I have had dialogue with a range of Ministers on all of that, and we want to see an improvement across the board. We want procurement to be used in that fashion.

Where Departments can achieve better social outcomes with the work that they do, by all means, they should. We are setting a minimum standard, and that does not mean that it stops there. Departments can do other things and bring other improvements. We procure about £3 billion worth of goods and services each year. That gives us enormous power to achieve a lot of other social good. I hope that a consequence of the policy that we have brought through is that it will allow the Executive to do that across the board.

Sinéad McLaughlin (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

T5. Ms McLaughlin asked the Minister of Finance whether he has considered how to radically review fiscal policy on the taxation of businesses and, if so, to outline the steps that he has taken to ensure that the review takes place quickly, particularly because she is very concerned about the state of our town and city centres, which have been in decline for many years, with the pandemic exacerbating that decline. (AQT 1505/17-22)

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

The only fiscal policy that can currently be of that type of assistance to town centres is the rates policy. In our response to the pandemic, we gave a two-year rates holiday to a substantial number of businesses at a cost of £500 million to the Executive. We also reduced the non-domestic rate by 18% last year, and we have kept that 18% reduction. As the Member is well aware, we have given out a variety of business support grants through a number of Departments. We also fully funded the economic recovery package, which the Department for the Economy will use to support town centres and other businesses as we try to assist in their recovery from the pandemic.

There is broad recognition that our high streets have been in trouble for some time and that, wherever we can, we should use whatever devices are available to the Executive to provide support. We should act collectively across a number of Departments. The Department for Communities has an interest. The Department for Infrastructure has an interest in some of the parklet schemes that were launched last weekend. Those things can collectively contribute to improving town centres, and the Executive should work across all Departments to do what we can with the limited resources and fiscal levers at our disposal.

Sinéad McLaughlin (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

Thank you for that answer, Minister. Should we incentivise businesses to set up in our town centres? At the minute, the fiscal policy that we operate penalises businesses that do so. There is no level playing field. While bricks-and-mortar businesses are penalised and taxed for setting up in city centres, online shopping has experienced great growth in recent years and is not going away, so we need a complete review of how we do business and taxation in Northern Ireland. I would like to see you being a leader in delivering that policy, Minister.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

Does the Member have a question?

Sinéad McLaughlin (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

Will the Minister be a leader and a champion for delivering different fiscal policy and for incentivising businesses?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I will, of course, be a champion for businesses. We have distributed enormous relief and support to businesses, which is not a normal function of my Department, to try to ensure that they have a chance of survival after the pandemic.

As the Member knows, we have established a fiscal council to look at the idea of other fiscal levers for the Executive. At the moment, the only lever that we have is rates, which contribute about 10% of the Executive's finances. As the Member knows, they are used to try to protect the vital public services that serve Derry and other places. Those services are hugely important to us. There is always a balance when trying to do that.

The presence of online shopping is a taxation issue that Treasury is looking at. There is an unfairness in small local businesses and shops in town centres struggling against an online presence that does not bear the same rates burden. That can be examined. I hope that the fiscal commission will look at the fiscal levers that are available to the Executive to address a range of issues and that we will use them to try to support local businesses and jobs in the time ahead.

Robbie Butler (UUP, Lagan Valley)

T6. Mr Butler asked the Minister of Finance whether he will develop policies to enable civil servants to continue to work from home, given that COVID-19 has thrust workers and workforces into different ways of operating. (AQT 1506/17-22)

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Yes. A lot of trends that were already happening in the workforce have been accelerated significantly by the experience of the pandemic, including reliance on and enforcement of people's working from home. It will have huge implications for the way that the Civil Service works and for its estate. You can already see people in the private sector reassessing the office space that they need and how they will work in the future. Thankfully, from what I have seen in recent reports, sick leave has reduced significantly during the pandemic, and people have been able to get a better work-life balance. We are looking to review how we do workforce planning in the Civil Service, and we are looking at the idea of a blended approach that combines being in the office and being at home. That requires IT support and other things that we have accelerated over the course of the pandemic.

The Member will be aware that we have begun the establishment of a ring of hubs so that, if people cannot work from home or they prefer to work in an office environment, they are not required to travel in and out of Belfast five days a week but can go to regional centres. That will have the added impact of ensuring an economic boost to those centres.

There is a range of measures to be considered, including where people work from, their work-life balance, a blended approach to working, regional hubs, what we require for the Civil Service estate, and the IT improvements that can assist all that. That is all in the mix and will be part of a longer-term Civil Service review.

Robbie Butler (UUP, Lagan Valley)

I welcome the Minister's positive answer. Does he agree that, whilst there is a balance to be struck that enables the multiple benefits that he explained come from working from home, there may also be benefits for those who find it hard to gain employment, particularly single-parent families and women, and that there may be benefits beyond those that he has already identified?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I agree with the Member about the ability to work from home. It is recognised that, unfortunately, a lot of the burden of organising the home falls unfairly on women. The opportunity to do more blended working makes work more accessible, particularly in Civil Service jobs, which previously would have required employees to spend one or two hours on the road in the morning and the evening travelling in and out of Belfast, or whatever the journey might be.

The regional hubs idea will mean that Civil Service jobs will be opened up to people from more peripheral and border areas as well. Travelling and commuting was a big challenge for people considering opportunities in the public sector and probably in the private sector as well. It will give us a more diverse and balanced workforce and will give people more access to employment. That should be regarded as a good thing in the time ahead.

Karen Mullan (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

T7. Ms Mullan asked the Minister of Finance whether he has received any indication that the spending review will make provision for a multi-annual Budget settlement or additional funds to tackle health service waiting lists. (AQT 1507/17-22)

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I spoke to the Chancellor when I met him in London a number of weeks back. He assured us that the spending review will deliver a multi-annual Budget, which is what the Executive have sought for some time. That will give us the opportunity to plan ahead and to try to deal with some of the big transformation issues such as the health service. We have no indication of additional finances for that transformational work, but we will continue to press the case for it, particularly for our health service, because if we are to reduce waiting lists and get the types of changes that we need to see in the health system, we need a significant investment in it from the Executive. We continue to press the case for that support. The British Prime Minister said that the health service was one of the issues for which the UK Government wanted to see support in response to the pandemic. We hope that that translates into support for our health service here as well.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

We have time for a quick supplementary question.

Karen Mullan (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

Thank you. Minister, you answered my supplementary question. I had been going to ask for an update on those conversations with the Exchequer, so thank you for that.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

The time is up, so I ask Members to take their ease before we move on to questions to the Minister of Health.

Oral Answers to Questions — Health

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

Topical question 2 from Carál Ní Chuilín and topical question 6 from Alex Easton have been withdrawn.

Claire Sugden (Independent, East Londonderry)

1. Ms Sugden asked the Minister of Health for an update on his plans to introduce a mechanism for travellers from Northern Ireland to provide confirmation of a COVID-19 vaccination. (AQO 2336/17-22)

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

If I may, I request an extra minute to answer that question, as I know that it is of great interest to Members and their constituents.

My Department has undertaken two significant pieces of work to assist those wishing to undertake international travel. First, officials have been working on a comprehensive COVID-status certificate system (CCS) since April, when international standards for information exchange began to emerge. The final CCS will take the form of a printed certificate supplemented by a mobile phone app. That system will provide internationally accepted proof that the holder has either received both vaccine doses at least two weeks prior to travel, or has demonstrated immunity to the virus, or has received a negative PCR test result in the preceding 72 hours. The comprehensive solution is expected to be available for 19 July. For those unable to access the automated digital solution, a helpline will be available. Members will appreciate that IT-based solutions that require access to personal healthcare records must meet the strictest data protection and cybersecurity standards and that such work cannot be rushed.

A second interim solution was developed in an incredibly short time and was made available to the public on Friday evening last week. The service was developed after some countries unilaterally decided to require vaccination proof, ahead of the EU vaccine passport scheme becoming fully functional. The interim solution enables people from Northern Ireland travelling to international destinations to show that they have received both vaccine doses. The system was available on the nidirect website on Friday evening, with requests prioritised by intended date of travel. Health and Social Care Board staff are verifying the requester's identity, locating their vaccine record and preparing a vaccine certificate for collection from one of three vaccine centres, and staff are on hand to assist with any difficulties that may arise.

There has been an incredible public response to the interim solution. As of 1.00 pm today, there have been 4,500 applications. For 125 of those travelling today, certificates were made available for collection from one of three collection points yesterday afternoon. The short-term interim arrangements are only for people travelling to foreign countries who require proof of double-dose vaccination up to 20 July. The interim documentation will have a short-term expiry date and will be of no use to anyone travelling at a later date.

I am sure that Members will join me in thanking the Health and Social Care Board staff, health and social care trust staff, the system developers and departmental officials for developing the interim solution in a matter of days and working over the weekend to enable our citizens to meet the changing requirements for international travel.

Claire Sugden (Independent, East Londonderry)

Thank you, Minister. That is really great work. I thank the Minister for his attention to that matter. I have written to him on a number of occasions, and that information will be gratefully received today by all those who need that vaccine passport, if you like.

Today, I read that the second vaccination dose is available at the COVID mobile test units. Will that have any implications for information-sharing for the vaccine passport, so that people can get that documentation?

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

It will not. In fact, it allows members of the public to bring forward their second vaccine dose from what had been scheduled. We encourage people not to do that as it would affect the sequencing of our booking systems. However, that can be done if people prefer to do it and they follow the guidance. We do not encourage it, but it would allow people to be provided with the vaccine certification and verification documentation once they have received their second vaccine.

Justin McNulty (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

Minister, well done on this. It is a huge release for so many who want to feel sand and sea or travel abroad to get away from things after this hard 14 months.

You will recognise that the race against the delta variant is on. On Saturday, a temporary vaccination centre was set up in the Quays in Newry and had a huge uptake. I believe that the centre in Craigavon is now allowing people to rock up for vaccinations without an appointment. How important do you see that being in the race against the variant? Will those temporary stations be more readily available on weekdays and weekends so that more people can access the vaccine and allow us to get ahead of the delta variant?

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member. Other people have used the terminology that this is now a race between the vaccine and the variant. I concur with that. The more people we can vaccinate with first and second doses, the more protection we can give to the population of Northern Ireland.

The Member quoted examples of walk-in vaccine centres at the weekend. He will see those being replicated across all trust areas. All the trusts are moving forward with those centres for first doses and, in some cases, they will be located in towns and villages across Northern Ireland where we have identified a low uptake of vaccines. Our trust centres are still operating and will move to a walk-in service for first and second doses, as long as people have left the appropriate time between doses.

We are doing everything that we can to encourage as much uptake of the vaccine as possible in Northern Ireland. We have seen a great response to date. We have seen a great response from our health and social care system in delivering the vaccine. If the Member recalls, the programme started only a number of months ago rather than a long time ago.

Rosemary Barton (UUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Can the Minister provide an update on what steps are being taken to ensure that people who participated in the vaccine trials are not disadvantaged when it comes to securing the appropriate certification?

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for her point, which is a significant one for the people in Northern Ireland who came forward for vaccine trials, some of whom received a placebo dose.

The four UK Chief Medical Officers and the Chief Scientific Adviser in Northern Ireland have advised that participants in well-regulated clinical trials should not be disadvantaged as global travel resumes. Participants will not be disadvantaged in any domestic vaccine certifications compared to anyone else who received their vaccines under the standard health and social care programme. The vaccine management system used by the CCS will record trial participants as being vaccinated. All participants in trials who received a vaccine that will not be licensed, or received a placebo, have been advised that they will remain certified during a grace period to allow them to receive the standard vaccines, if the doctors in charge of the trials recommend that.

Paula Bradshaw (Alliance, Belfast South)

Minister, I was contacted by a constituent whose teenage daughter has only had her first dose. Will you clarify what the period between the two doses is? My constituent is worried that they will be unable to go on holiday.

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for that. There is now revised guidance and the periods between vaccines has been shortened. It depends on what vaccine she got for her first dose. It has been reduced to six weeks and eight weeks depending on the vaccine. I have it in my notes somewhere. If I remember it during the rest of Question Time, I will respond to the Member. I will reply to her in writing about shortening the period between the vaccine doses. It is possible, but I do not encourage it because it upsets some of the systems that we have in place.

Diane Dodds (DUP, Upper Bann)

We are really pleased that progress has been made in allowing people to travel and in providing them with the documentation to allow them to do so. Over the last number of months, there has been significant interest in investing in Northern Ireland. Has any progress been made in allowing investors into Northern Ireland in the way that our national Government have allowed exemptions for those who are considering making a significant investment in the country?

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for raising the point; as Minister for the Economy, she raised it numerous times. We always review and revise the travel restrictions under the guidance of the Chief Medical Officer and the Chief Scientific Adviser. The Member will know that the graded and individual exemptions from quarantine or providing proof of vaccination are continually reviewed at UK level.

I think that the Member will acknowledge that, as we see vaccines being widely delivered across the world, the proof of vaccination and the certification that can be provided not only at Northern Ireland or UK level but at EU level will allow those individuals who come in to the country to prove vaccination certification to a standard that will allow them to access the country under the traffic light system for guidance on international travel.

Robbie Butler (UUP, Lagan Valley)

2. Mr Butler asked the Minister of Health for an update on the uptake of COVID-19 vaccinations in Lagan Valley. (AQO 2337/17-22)

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for his question. The vaccination programme continues at pace. I can confirm that uptake has been very strong across Lagan Valley. Information on the vaccine uptake and total doses by postcode is available on my Department's vaccination dashboard, which shows that in the nine postcodes in the Lagan Valley Assembly area, there were 142,755 first doses and 105,955 second doses. I am sure that the Member will join me in commending all those in the area who have already come forward and played their part in helping to protect themselves and those around them.

Aside from thanking all those involved in the vaccination programme for their dedication and ongoing commitment, our best way out of the pandemic is through vaccination. The vaccination programme has been designed to be agile and pragmatic in order to make it as easy as possible for people to be vaccinated. While the figures mentioned are impressive, we will strive to drive the uptake rates for first and second doses even higher.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

I call Pat Catney for a question.

Pat Catney (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Lagan Valley)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle —

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

Excuse me. Sorry, I forgot to call Robbie for a supplementary. I am sure that Mr Catney will defer to you, Mr Butler.

Robbie Butler (UUP, Lagan Valley)

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I thank the Minister for his recognition of the sterling efforts of people right across Northern Ireland and, indeed, in my constituency on the level of vaccine uptake. I thank the Minister, his Department and the trust for the "Grab a jab" initiative at the weekend. Is it too early to ask the Minister for an update on how popular that has been? Will he join me in commending the South Eastern Trust for its "Grab a jab, get a poke" initiative whereby people were given a free ice cream with the jab this week?

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for that, but I have to raise a slight concern about his last comment. Where I come from, "Grabbing a poke" actually has a quite different meaning.

[Laughter.]

While it translates well in some areas of this country, I am glad that the Member clarified that it was ice cream. I assure him and anyone who is going that that is all that is involved and that that is all that they will get with their vaccine.

[Laughter.]

While terminology and language are always important in the House, I particularly want to clarify that point.

I thank the Member for highlighting the fact that we are seeing different approaches across trusts to encouraging people to come forward. The on-street and walk-in vaccine pop-up clinics that we saw over the weekend are targeting those people who have not availed themselves of the vaccination programme in more formal settings. I again acknowledge all those who have come forward, and I encourage those who have not had their vaccine or, in the South Eastern Trust, their ice cream to come forward.