Northern Ireland Assembly, 28 June 2021

287 contributions from 57 members. The official report.

Assembly Business

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

I advise Members that I have been informed by the Chief Electoral Officer that Mr Stephen Dunne has been returned as a Member of the Assembly for the North Down constituency, to fill the vacancy resulting from the sad passing of his father, Gordon. I offer my sincere sympathies to Stephen and the entire family.

This morning, Mr Dunne signed the Roll of Membership in the presence of the Principal Deputy Speaker and the Clerk to the Assembly and entered his designation. Mr Dunne has taken his seat. I welcome him to the Assembly and wish him every success in his time here.

Matter of the Day

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

Mr Gerry Carroll has been given leave to make a statement on the NI Public Service Ombudsman's (NIPSO) report on the personal independence payment (PIP), which fulfils the criteria set out in Standing Order 24. If other Members wish to be called, they should rise in their place and continue to do so. All Members who are called will have up to three minutes to speak on the subject. I remind Members that interventions are not permitted and that I will not take any points of order on this or any other matter until the item of business has finished.

Gerry Carroll (People Before Profit Alliance, Belfast West)

Thanks to the Speaker for accepting the Matter of the Day. Last week's report from the ombudsman was damning about the welfare system and, chiefly, the personal independence payment, which is an issue that people have highlighted for many years. The report underscored what many people have thought, experienced and said for some time now: Capita is unfit for that work. Time and time again, Capita has proven that it is either unable or unwilling to deal with highly sensitive circumstances and with people who have disabilities and vulnerabilities. The question is how was it able to do that in the first place? The answer is two words: welfare reform.

The parties in this House that implemented welfare reform are responsible for this scandal. In the main, the DUP and Sinn Féin. It is not that they did not know the scale of the problems with not only Capita, but welfare reform itself. They were warned before they implemented it, but they proceeded regardless. We were told that the vulnerable would be protected. That is a laughable claim when you read the details of the report from last week. It is a system of conscious cruelty that says that it is OK to slash welfare services and put people through a degrading and rigorous ordeal, all for a cosy deal to cut corporation tax for the wealthy.

That was in the detail of the Stormont House Agreement, the legacy of which we still live with today.

The report found that, repeatedly, Capita did not contact doctors or other health professionals in the majority of cases. Who better to know about people's health or disabilities than their doctor or medical practitioners? It also found that applicants with Parkinson's disease received zero points for daily living and mobility and that, disgracefully, GP evidence that had been given was not taken into consideration. The report also found:

"the evidence supports a finding of systemic maladministration. The issues I have reported do not point to 'one off' mistakes but instead support the need to fundamentally review how further evidence is obtained and applied in the PIP process and how this is communicated."

That is from the ombudsman herself. In any sane, fair and rational system, you would think that that company would at least have its knuckles rapped and its contract cancelled. What is the response from the Department for Communities and the Sinn Féin Minister? It is, disgracefully, to continue the company's contract for another two years.

Then we have the awarding of a contract for victims' pensions to the same organisation. Who can say with any sincerity that they trust that company to treat people with any empathy and care, considering how Capita has repeatedly functioned in the past? I certainly do not. We were told about a new normal, but given the report, its findings and the future outworkings of the contracts, there will be no new normal for people on PIP or for people with disabilities.

Paula Bradley (DUP, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for bringing the issue forward. I am sure that all of us could give testimony to the fact that none of us needed an ombudsman's report to know what was happening in the PIP system and its assessment system. All of us could wax lyrical in the Chamber about the many people we have seen in our offices who have been unfairly treated through the PIP assessment system. We could talk about cancer patients. We could talk about people with long-term learning or physical difficulties who, although their difficulties are never going to get better, were questioned time and time again through that system on their experiences and how their life was going to change. Again, it is no surprise that the ombudsman's report discussed inconsistencies and poor communication, because, as MLAs, we see the results of that day and daily. Where medical evidence is concerned, I know that, very early in the changeover to PIP, a delegation met Capita to talk about people with autism. If you have autism, you will not have medical evidence because you do not have a disease. You are not required to have a massive amount of medical evidence, yet those people were treated very unfairly when we first had PIP.

There is strong evidence in the ombudsman's report that things need to change. There are questions about Capita continuing in its role, given the many faults and failings that are highlighted throughout the report. At the end of the day, people's lives are involved. Those involved are real people living with trials and tribulations every day that are being compounded on a daily basis because the wrong decisions are being made. People have to wait such a long time for their appeals. We know that the waiting period has been extended partly because of COVID, but we have people at home now who have been made to feel as though they were telling lies and that their illness or disease does not matter. That needs to change, because their illness absolutely matters, and we have a responsibility to tell people that it matters. Change needs to come about, and we need to see it now.

Sinéad Ennis (Sinn Féin, South Down)

Sinn Féin has fundamental concerns with the Capita system. I commend the ombudsman and her team for carrying out their in-depth investigation, which began 20 months ago. I am glad to say, however, that, since the appointment of a Sinn Féin Minister, a number of immediate and much-needed changes have been introduced to improve the delivery of PIP and that more changes will come.

I welcome the report and its findings and recommendations. As Paula Bradley said, I, too, have had many people contact me over the years regarding their experiences as, I am sure, has everyone across the House. At this point, I thank the independent advice sector for not only its work in guiding people through the PIP system but its continued advocacy for change. It has been doing extremely good work in highlighting the concerns and the treatment that some people experienced in the Capita process.

I put on record the fact that Minister Hargey is the first Minister to commit to bringing those assessments back in-house. She has stated her intention to do that as soon as it is practicably possible and her intention for health professionals in the Department to carry out those assessments. That is absolutely one of the changes that needs to happen.

I also welcome Minister Hargey's commitment, which she has stated to the House before, to working with the ombudsman on the report and the recommendations. However, she requires resources and the support and partnership of the Department of Health to do that. Of course, that was not possible due to the current pandemic, and steps were needed in the interim to ensure the continued provision of services.

As I said, I welcome the report. It is fair to say that nobody across the House will have a problem with any of the recommendations. We now need to see Minister Hargey working with the ombudsman and her team on the full implementation of the report's recommendations.

Mark Durkan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

The NIPSO report that was published last week was shocking but, sadly, not surprising. So many vulnerable people have suffered at the hands of Capita and the current system, not just to their financial detriment but at huge cost to their health and well-being. Our office workers and the vital independent advice sector do their best to help people navigate a system that fails people, and not a week goes by that we do not hear a fresh horror story of how Capita conducts its business.

By any measure, Capita has failed. The NIPSO report laid out some of those failings, but we also have to look at the number of successful appeals that are being heard. What is the cost of the appeals system to the public purse? Another £2 million was allocated in the recent monitoring round precisely for the purpose of clearing the backlog in appeals. Clearly, if Capita was doing its job properly, we would not be incurring that cost.

How much will Capita gain from the two-year extension to its contract? Whatever way we look at it, it is rewarding not just failure but the abuse of vulnerable people.

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I very much welcome the report from the NI Public Services Ombudsman. I also note that it is an own-initiative report. Members may recall that the office of NIPSO was created by the Committee for the Executive Office. It is the only Committee ever to bring forward legislation on its own. The five parties of that Committee agreed that it was important to give the NIPSO the power to initiate his or her own investigations when a pattern of maladministration was suspected in any area of devolved government. The ombudsman has, indeed, concluded that there was systemic maladministration with regard to the PIP system. I welcome that.

Speaking on behalf of my constituents, I am no different from the other 89 MLAs. We have constituency offices, and constituents come in. You do not have to look at the file or the medical evidence to realise, within seconds, that you are dealing with a very vulnerable person, who does not understand the system, who may find some of the technical language entirely foreign and who is simply looking for somebody to show a little empathy in the first place and to help. I have gone to many appeals, and I have come to the conclusion that Capita does not give sufficient weighting to mental capacity.

The question of whether someone can prepare and cook a simple meal is judged crudely on the physical ability to open a can of beans, put the beans in a pan, put the pan on a stove, turn on the gas and heat the beans. People can do that, but they do not have the mental capacity to continue to concentrate. They may dander off and start watching television, and they then wonder why the fire brigade is at the front door. We need to do things an awful lot better.

I noted that Ms Ennis said that we need to bring the assessments back in-house. How many millions have we spent on the recent voluntary exit scheme to reduce the headcount of our Civil Service? Are we now going to say to the Executive, "Spend millions more on a recruitment campaign to boost the headcount yet again"? Absolutely not. There is a very simple answer for the Department for Communities: get your act together and sort it out.

Kellie Armstrong (Alliance, Strangford)

I welcome, as others have, the stark but well-researched report by the Northern Ireland Public Services Ombudsman, which identified systemic maladministration in the PIP system. I call on the Minister to outline urgently her planned actions to rectify that situation.

Like other Members, I deal with constituents who have tried to navigate the PIP system. They have complained and said that the system is not fit for purpose. Claimants have raised constant concerns about the amount of paperwork and the application process, including the assessment interviews, and the report confirms those concerns. I absolutely accept that some claimants proceed through the system. Others, however, have been forced to appeal and go through a tough tribunal just to allow them to access support and live independently. That is not good enough, and the failings land firmly with the Minister.

The evidence supports a finding of systemic maladministration, and I am so sorry for those who have suffered unnecessarily. The Minister must act, and I believe that she will. She has decided to extend Capita's contract while she prepares to bring assessments in-house. However, unless significant improvements are made, the same assessors will be transferred to the Department under the Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations (TUPE) and will continue to deliver processes that are not good enough.

We all know that DWP created the system. Unfortunately, we are delivering it here. People with disabilities should not be treated so appallingly by the very system that is supposed to support them. Given that the Department is working on a disability strategy, I absolutely hope that the expert panel that is responsible for that strategy will ensure that the scandalous treatment that was dealt out to people who applied for PIP will be addressed and that appropriate direction will be provided to stop that treatment from continuing.

I call on people to stop harming victims. Today, we heard it conflated that the Victims' Payments Board will use the same system. It may use the same company, but it is definitely not the same system. The Victims' Payments Board is working to put out the criteria for that service, and it is independent of the Department of Justice. We need to stop harming victims, and I am very disappointed by the BBC's 'Nolan Show', which has upset a number of victims on the issue. The Troubles permanent disablement payments scheme has not even been created, yet it has been trashed.

We have to look after our victims and those who are applying for PIP. It is up to all of us to take that forward and make those improvements.

Rachel Woods (Green, North Down)

I welcome Stephen Dunne to the Chamber. It is good to see you, Stephen.

I thank Mr Carroll for bringing the Matter of the Day forward, and I thank the Speaker for accepting it. It is indeed a Matter of the Day, but it has also been a matter that many of us have been dealing with for many years. Like other Members, I am not surprised at the outcome of the ombudsman's report. The PIP system is broken and is not fit for purpose. We know that, and last week's report was just the latest pointer to the failings. It found evidence of systemic maladministration, which is just not OK. How many more reports will we read? How many more reports will the Department read and put on a shelf?

The implementation of PIP has caused hardship to a significant proportion of applicants for years and has thrown many people into significant distress and despair. Despite that, even the recommendations from Walter Rader's first review of PIP have gone largely unimplemented, and I continue to receive correspondence from constituents about the same issues that have gone unchecked.

The report of the second review, which was by Marie Cavanagh, was published late last year. It contained 12 recommendations, and I encourage the Communities Minister to implement those as soon as possible. However, of particular significance in that report is a recommendation that the Department should:

"produce guidance/examples for claimants, advocacy services and Healthcare Professionals of appropriate evidence to support the PIP process and where this evidence should be obtained."

Now, we have this report also highlighting the importance of evidence.

In our constituency offices, we all deal with applications for social security. Many people come to us only when they have tried all other avenues that they can see, or when things have got really bad. However, the incredible role of the independent advice sector must not be underestimated. Without it, people would be in a far worse position.

We have all helped too many people who have faced degrading and humiliating questions or had claims unfairly and unjustly rejected: people who have been let down by the system. The privatisation of the PIP process has been a disaster: the evidence that people are required to submit on the form, the support available and even the data collected and published. We have appeals going to court. This should not be a matter for the courts. The process should be brought in-house completely. The Department does not even properly publish statistics on the appeals. That was subject to another report that has gone largely unchecked.

People need to be treated with fairness, dignity and respect when making social security claims. We know that they are not. Whilst we are not debating the merits of the entire process, the point remains that those administering the system have a duty to ensure that they do not fail the people whom they assess. That is the least that anyone in our society can expect.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

I join others in welcoming Stephen Dunne to the Assembly, although the circumstances that bring him here are, of course, those of immense sadness for him and his family.

There is no glossing over the findings of this ombudsman's report. They are stark and compelling, and an unflinching and unmitigated indictment of Capita. Clearly, as a company, it is not fit for purpose. Yet, even though probably any MLA could have identified the issues that have now been articulated so fully by the ombudsman's office, our daily experience means that is no great surprise to us to read the findings.

Yet, instead of an adverse reaction to Capita when it was pretty clear that it was not fit for purpose, its contract was extended. Across government, another Department decided to engage it on the most sensitive of issues: victims' pensions. Ms Armstrong makes a gallant effort to distinguish the issues, but there is an indistinguishability about the fact that a company charged with assessing individuals has lamentably failed with PIP. What confidence can we have that it will do otherwise when it comes to victims of the Troubles? Therefore, I am astounded and appalled that the Justice Minister has engaged the same failed entity to oversee that particular operation. Really? Do we learn nothing in this House?

Alex Easton (DUP, North Down)

Nobody should be surprised by the ombudsman's report on PIP and the outcomes of it. Every one of us in the House has known about this for years. What did we do about it? Some of us may have raised questions at the Communities Committee, but we let it happen, even though we knew that it was going on, day in and day out. It is a collective failure of the Assembly. We should all hang our heads in shame. It is our fault.

Partly, the problem with Capita is also a problem with the Department for Communities, because, at the end of the day, the Department put Capita in charge.

The Department set the criteria and the guidelines, so it has a big responsibility for what happened. People who should have had their PIP are being denied it. Those people are being traumatised, and that is the fault of all of us in here — all of us — because we are allowing it to happen. Even without COVID on top of it, we have backlogs of appeals on mandatory reconsiderations and actual oral appeals that are costing hundreds of thousands of pounds. I will have to table an Assembly question to find out what the exact figure is. I fear for the future, because the Department for Communities under the Minister has allowed the contract to go on for another two years. As a result, in those two years, we will traumatise more people. The Minister really needs to look at that very quickly.

On top of that, as Mr Allister mentioned, we will traumatise the victims of the Troubles, because we are going to give the contract for victims' pensions to Capita. It will be in charge and will create a mess of that as well. I have no doubt that it will create a mess. We have a responsibility to ensure that that does not happen. I call on the Justice Minister to pull back from giving Capita that contract before it is too late and we cause more problems for the victims of the Troubles.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

I thank Mr Carroll for bringing the Matter of the Day before us. There are two issues here, and they are substantial issues of which we as Members of the Assembly need to be fully aware. I pay tribute to a member of my staff, Leah Smyth, who is my constituency manager. Like nearly all our constituency managers, she spends a considerable amount of time dealing with PIP enquiries. If you look at the volume that constituency managers have to go through and the inexplicable positions taken when cases get to appeal, you will see that, nine times out of 10, the appeal is accepted, because, when the detail of it is looked at, it is clear that Capita did not do its job right in the first place.

The cost of this, above all to the people whom we are trying to help, is unbelievable. We have to remember that people come to our offices not as a first resort but as a last resort. When they come to us, we have so much sympathy for the position that they are in. We also know that, once we get the form filled in correctly and get the case to appeal, there is a 90% chance that they will not have to go through any more trauma, because it will be sorted out. The fact that that happens time and time again should be completely unacceptable to the Assembly, but there is something more fundamental here. The Northern Ireland Audit Office (NIAO) clearly used the word "maladministration". Think about that: a provider of public services has been told that it is maladministering the process. That is not a one-off with Capita. Anybody who knows anything about what is going on across the entirety of the public services will ask why we use Capita time and time again. Why do we use it across government? What is the hold that Capita has on our process that we feel that we have to use it time and time again? Even when it is manifestly failing and has been told that it is maladministering the system, we give it another contract and say that it can have other contracts across government. That needs to be investigated. What hold does Capita have over our Civil Service and our Ministers? I cannot understand why we allow that situation to continue.

I look at Mr Carroll, and he is probably thinking exactly the same thing. I look at Members from every other party in the Chamber, and they are all asking the same questions: what is it about Capita that we do not seem to be able to wean ourselves off it, and what hold does it have over our Government, our system and the rest of it? Those are the questions that we need to ask ourselves and that must be addressed.

Paula Bradshaw (Alliance, Belfast South)

I thank Mr Carroll for bringing the Matter of the Day to the House. It is important that we reflect on the report in the Chamber today.

On the specific issue of the personal independence payment, I strongly endorse many of the comments made today and commend Margaret Kelly and her team on the clarity of the report. Its contents are of little surprise to those of us in the Chamber who have been helping our constituents with PIP payments; indeed, the reality of the situation is rather worse when you hear the details from someone in front of you as opposed to reading them on a piece of paper.

The failure to make the right payment without effectively forcing claimants to make continual changes and the impact on them in every sense, financial through to their mental well-being, are, frankly, always harrowing. What claimants report to me time and again is a sense of desperation, intrusion and gross unfairness. There was a sense throughout that the process was about assuming that people were not entitled rather than helping them to receive the support to which they are entitled and that they greatly need. That is clearly the wrong way round.

I want to address some issues that have been raised in the Chamber today around the awarding of the contract for victims' pensions to Capita. The victims must absolutely come first, and I have to say that, not just in the Chamber today but on the air waves earlier, there were a lot of misinformed and inappropriate comments, with the voices of victims notably being drowned out. I am concerned not that the process will re-traumatise them, as Mr Easton said, but that, I suspect, a lot of the discourse in the public domain today will very much re-traumatise them in that regard.

The process for victims' pensions is, perhaps thankfully, utterly different from the assessment needed for PIP. Capita was appointed following a public tendering process with specific criteria drawn up. As opposed to what others have said here, it is not about a hold on any Department; it is about an open process that any company can apply to. That took place several months ago, before the NIPSO report, and it was largely welcomed by victims' organisations in the recognition that such a step was necessary towards achieving the actual implementation of the pension scheme.

There was no need for the Justice Minister or the Department of Justice to take on the scheme. They did so because of the urgency involved and the recognition that victims were fed up with being further victimised, re-traumatised and used in political games. They need a process that will involve specialists and expert medical professionals, and I agree with others in their commentary on that. We need to move forward with the process, and others in the Chamber need to reflect on their commentary around the scheme.

We do not want to detract, however, from the real problems and concerns that Members have mentioned around the PIP assessment process. I welcome the report.

Assembly Business

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

Tá cead iarrtha ag Dolores Kelly achainí phoiblí a chur faoi bhráid an Tionóil. Mrs Dolores Kelly has sought leave to present a public petition in accordance with Standing Order 22. The Member will have up to three minutes in which to speak.

Dolores Kelly (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Upper Bann)

I am grateful to the Speaker and my colleagues on the Business Committee for providing time in a busy schedule today to present this petition calling for an animal cruelty register. It is something that our party colleague Malachy Quinn has worked hard on over the last number of years and that has the support of all councils across the North. It is something that people obviously feel passionately about. Within a matter of days, the online petition acquired over 4,000 signatures. In many Members' constituencies — certainly, in mine — in the last couple of years, there have been some horrendous cases of animal cruelty towards domestic pets and farm animals.

The petition has widespread support. It is supported by the Ulster Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (USPCA), and I am grateful to it and to all those who signed the petition, which calls on the Agriculture Minister to work alongside the Minister of Justice — the Minister of Justice recently gave commitments to make her officials available — for the register to be established, because it is important that those convicted of such horrendous cruelty are disbarred from keeping animals.

The register, it is hoped, would be able to be accessed by shelters and charities so that people convicted would not be able to rehome animals and, indeed, by pet shop owners and others so that they could check the bona fides of people who wished to purchase animals from shops. Indeed, for those who have been convicted of illegal practices on puppy farms as well, that is very important.

We already have stiff sentences available to the courts, although some might argue that the sentences that have been imposed thus far do not go far enough in relation to what many see as a very sadistic form of behaviour. Many think that, in some cases, it is psychopathic, given the levels of cruelty. Therefore, it is timely that the register be established. I hope that the Minister works hard during the remainder of the mandate to have it established; indeed, I know, Mr Deputy Speaker, that you have had discussions on an ongoing basis with the Agriculture Minister in the South, Charlie McConalogue TD, in looking at an all-island register. We know that this border is far from — well, we know today, anyway. Certainly, the Committee meeting in a room nearby will know about the border.

Certainly, I think it is worth the effort —

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

Can I ask the Member to draw her remarks to a close, please?

Dolores Kelly (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Upper Bann)

— to have an all-Ireland register that has the support of people across this island.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

I thank the Member. Normally, I would invite the Member to bring her petition to the Table and present it to me. However, in light of social distancing, I ask the Member to remain in her place and make arrangements to submit the petition to the Speaker's Office electronically, if that is possible. I thank her indeed for bringing the petition to the attention of the Assembly. Once the petition is received, the Speaker's Office will forward it to the Minister of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs and send a copy to the Committee.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

Agus an chéad ábhar eile. Tá cead iarrtha ag Nicola Brogan achainí phoiblí a chur faoi bhráid an Tionóil. Nicola Brogan has sought leave to present a public petition to the Assembly in accordance with Standing Order No 22. Again, the Member will have up to three minutes to speak.

Nicola Brogan (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

A LeasCheann Comhairle, I present this public petition to you on behalf of the people of Omagh and the wider west Tyrone area. The petition calls on the Health Minister, Robin Swann, to progress the acute mental health centre for Omagh town that was announced in 2016. The business case for the facility was created by the Western Health and Social Care Trust. It proposes a 6,700 square metre new-build facility to be located adjacent to the Omagh Hospital and Primary Care Complex. The new centre was intended to replace outdated facilities and provide the people of Omagh and the wider west Tyrone area with modern, fit-for-purpose accommodation. We have already seen new builds for Belfast and Derry and, recently, progress on a new site at Holywell Hospital. The facility at Omagh would include a 26-bed acute mental health unit with six integrated psychiatric intensive care beds and a therapy day centre. It would have an eight-bed alcohol and drug treatment unit and an older people's mental health unit, with space for older people with mental health concerns and those with dementia.

I bring the petition to the Assembly on behalf of almost 600 signatories. The people of Omagh, Fintona, Trillick, Strabane and all of west Tyrone deserve high-quality, safe and effective mental healthcare based on the identified needs of the local population. Following the pandemic and the increase in mental health concerns throughout the population, it is more vital than ever that we have a facility that supports those struggling with mental health and addictions. It may be too early to assess the full impact of COVID-19. However, we can already see in just one specialist service — eating disorders — that referrals have increased by 43% and review appointments by 64% between March 2019 and September 2020. My concern and that of many members of the public is that, if we do not have a unit suitable for escalating cases, those in need do not receive the service required.

We are constantly advising and reminding our friends, families and colleagues to speak out and ask for help when we feel like we are struggling to cope or having our own mental health issues. Whilst it is obviously really important to have that space to talk about concerns, we also must ensure that the necessary professional help and support is available to those who need it. If there is no capacity to escalate and provide enhanced inpatient services, their needs will not be met by already stretched and hard-working community services.

I welcome the Minister's recent announcement of £400,000 from the Department that will go towards the modernisation of mental health services in Omagh. However, that is simply a sticking plaster. We need the outdated facility to be replaced with the modern, fit-for-purpose facility that has already been agreed. The people of Omagh and West Tyrone cannot be left behind or ignored.

I hope that the Minister listens to all those who have signed the petition and understands just how crucial the service is to the people of Omagh.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

Normally, I would invite the Member to bring her petition to the Table and present it to me. However, in light of social distancing, as before, I ask the Member to remain in her place and make arrangements to submit the petition to the Speaker's Office. I thank the Member for bringing the petition to the attention of the Assembly. Once it is received, I will forward it to the Minister of Health and send a copy to the Committee.

Members, I propose a short suspension of five minutes until we move to the next item of business.

The sitting was suspended at 12.40 pm and resumed at 12.45 pm.

Ministerial Statements

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

I have received notice from the Minister of Finance that he wishes to make a statement. Before I call the Minister, I remind Members in the Chamber that, in light of the social distancing being observed by parties, the Speaker's ruling that Members must be in the Chamber to hear a statement if they wish to ask a question has been relaxed. Members participating remotely must make sure that their name is on the speaking list if they wish to be called. Members present in the Chamber must also do that by rising in their place as well as by notifying the Business Office or the Speaker's Table directly.

I remind Members to be concise in asking their question. This is not an opportunity for debate, and long introductions will not be allowed. I also remind Members that, in accordance with long-established procedure, points of order are not normally taken during a statement or the period for questions afterwards.

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I welcome the opportunity to make a statement on the outcome of the 2020-21 provisional out-turn and the Executive’s June monitoring exercise. While I advised of them by way of a written statement, today’s oral statement will allow Members an opportunity to engage more fully on those important issues.

Before turning to the current year, I want to update the Assembly on the 2020-21 provisional out-turn and resulting Budget exchange position. Last year, the unprecedented levels of COVID-19 funding, the late notice of much of that funding and the rapid establishment of unique support measures created a real prospect of returning significant underspend to the British Treasury. In the absence of bids from other Departments, my Department established contingency measures to put that money to good use by supporting businesses. As a result of those contingency plans and good budget management by many Departments, I am pleased to say that no resource or conventional capital departmental expenditure limit (DEL) has been lost to the Executive. The underspend reported by Departments, together with central adjustments, has resulted in the carry forward of £85·7 million in resource DEL and £17·8 million in conventional capital DEL.

Unfortunately, the underspend of £55·6 million for ring-fenced financial transactions capital (FTC) exceeded the amount that can be carried forward by £26·4 million, meaning that 28·5% of FTC lending has been lost through underspend. While it is an improvement on the 2019-2020 position, when £72 million or 54% was lost, it is nonetheless disappointing. It reflects, however, the challenge associated with identifying suitable projects that can avail themselves of that finance, which may be used only for loans or equity investments in the private sector.

The £401·9 million of underspend on ring-fenced resource DEL, of which £395·7 million cannot be carried forward, seems, on the face of it, concerning. However, that must be considered in context. That funding may be used only for the non-cash costs relating to depreciation and impairments, so it is, in effect, a technical accounting issue. The majority of the underspend arose from a Barnett consequential that resulted from an allocation for student loan impairments in England that was not needed here. Given its technical nature, the loss of that underspend has no impact on the level of funding available for public services.

Turning to June monitoring, Members will be aware from my written statement that the Executive had £149 million in resource DEL, £91 million in capital DEL and £57·6 million in financial transactions capital DEL available to address pressures of a routine nature and those that arose as a result of COVID-19. That funding includes reduced requirements of £20·7 million resource DEL and £23·4 million capital DEL. Further details are included in the tables provided with the statement.

As usual, the resource DEL bids submitted by Departments far outweighed the level of resources available. Some bids can be revisited later in the year, when there will be more clarity on actual costs. The Executive have agreed to allocate the full level of resource DEL funding that is available in this round: some £149 million. Full details of bids and allocations are set out in the tables that accompany the statement. However, I would like to highlight a few specific areas.

I am providing £54·7 million to the Department of Health, including £31·5 million to aid pressures in elective care, which will help with waiting lists in the short term. I have also written to Executive colleagues to seek their support for a longer-term plan to tackle waiting lists and transform the health service as part of the multi-year Budget that we hope to move to. The Department of Education will receive £39 million, £35·7 million of which is to help children with special educational needs (SEN). The remaining £3·3 million is for COVID-19 pressures.

In light of the need to have funding in place to provide certainty for victims, an allocation of £19 million was made to the Executive Office (TEO) for the victims' pension scheme. Discussions continue with the British Government regarding the long-term funding of the scheme. Given some of the erroneous media reporting on the issue, I wish to clarify that the delay in launching the scheme has absolutely nothing to do with funding.

The decision to delay was taken to give applicants time to familiarise themselves with the guidance and to make sure that they can get the support that they need before making an application.

I have met all the bids for capital DEL submitted by Departments, which total £61·3 million. I am allocating £26·6 million to the Department for Communities for a range of housing projects, including £8·3 million to the Housing Executive to help tenants with a disability to adapt their property. The Department for Communities was hoping to invest £18 million this year in the development of a new stadium at Casement. However, planning permission has not yet been approved, meaning that it is not possible to spend that amount within the financial year. Funding for that flagship scheme will instead be allocated next year. The Department of Education receives £18 million, £14 million of which is for works to deliver additional accommodation across the school estate. I am allocating £11·5 million to the Department of Health, including £8·4 million for the replacement of equipment and vehicles and for essential maintenance work across the health estate. Some £1 million is allocated to assist the provision of a pilot mental health rehabilitation facility in Antrim. The facility is the first of its kind and will address an identified gap in care. An allocation of £8 million in ring-fenced financial transactions capital has been made to the Department for Communities in this round to assist the funding of the over-55s shared ownership scheme.

All capital DEL bids having been met, £29·7 million remains unallocated. Given the position on capital DEL, I have decided to reduce reinvestment and reform initiative (RRI) borrowing by £30 million, leaving a small overcommitment of £0·3 million. That can be revisited in October monitoring, when a decision to access further borrowing can be made, depending on the capital bids submitted at that stage.

At the conclusion of June monitoring, £46·4 million of financial transactions capital remains unallocated. I call on the Departments to consider ways to utilise that lending capacity.

This year's monitoring statements are accompanied by tables outlining the detail of changes to spending areas in Departments in order to aid transparency in the process. I commend the June monitoring outcome to the Assembly.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

I thank the Minister for his statement and for meeting me and our new Deputy Chairperson earlier today to discuss the key points of his briefing. I am sure that the Committee will welcome the £149 million of resource DEL allocations as well as the £61 million of capital allocations, with Communities, Education and Health all benefiting.

A few days ago, at Final Stage of the Budget (No. 2) Bill, I referred to the possibility of unknown and undeclared problems in the Estimates that may have gone unscrutinised. Today we see an underspend of £400 million of ring-fenced DEL, all of which cannot be carried forward into 2021-22. I understand the explanation that that will not affect non-ring-fenced DEL spending. Nonetheless, I ask the Minister why that large allocation, which relates, as he said, to unrepaid student loans, was made by the Treasury to the Department for the Economy in the first place if it was not germane to Northern Ireland. I also ask why so much of the Budget cover was not spent by the Department in 2020-21 and what the impact is likely to be in future years. I ask why, during all the scrutiny by the Committee for Finance of the spring Supplementary Estimates and all the related debates in the House, the size of the problem was never explicitly revealed. It is not satisfactory that the Committee for Finance or, indeed, the Committee for the Economy —

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

Dr Aiken, maybe you were not listening to my initial remarks. I have allowed a fair bit of latitude because you are Chair of the Committee, but I think that you have asked four questions thus far. Whether the Minister answers them will be up to him. Perhaps you could inject a bit of brevity into this.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

With your indulgence, Mr Deputy Speaker, these are important issues. I am sure that the Minister —

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

At the start, I asked Members to be snappy and sharp, if you do not mind, please.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

I shall be very snappy and very sharp. Thank you very much.

Minister, if you could answer those questions, the Committee and the Department for the Economy would be delighted to have your views.

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Chair. As I said, the significant level of that ring-fenced resource DEL was due to a Barnett consequential. There was a significant amount of impairment to student loans in England that required a significant amount of money to be spent there. We got a Barnett consequential as a consequence of that. It is ring-fenced and can be spent only on the exact area of impairment to student loans. Relatively speaking, we had a very small amount and therefore could not use the rest of that money and could not be allocated to any other public service. It is not a loss from the finances that we had available for public services and has been returned to Treasury.

I am happy to hear from the Finance Committee if it thinks that there was any deficit in the information that it received on that funding. I will make sure that those issues are addressed.

Keith Buchanan (DUP, Mid Ulster)

First, it is only right that I welcome my colleague Stephen Dunne to the Chamber, in case I forget and do not do so for the next two or three years. You are very welcome, Stephen.

My quick question is about financial transactions capital. Pages 3 and 4 of your statement refer to the loss of 28·5% of FTC this year and 54% last year. How can we improve on that? Will you give us a bit more detail on how Departments can utilise FTC so that it is not sent back?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

As I said to the Member in a meeting that we had earlier, it is an improved position on last year. However, it is not where we want it to be. Financial transactions capital spend is fairly limited in what it can be used for. Specifically, it has to be for a loan to a private enterprise, and some of that was used over the course of the year by Departments in an improved position. Nonetheless, we have still fallen short.

We will continue to remind Departments and familiarise them with the rules and regulations. Departments were interested in FTC and RRI borrowing. However, distilling schemes into those that qualify and can access that type of facility reduces their number. There is an improved position, which is good, but there is more work to be done. We will continue to engage with Departments in the time ahead to make sure that they understand how that funding can be utilised. The ambition will be to utilise that funding fully in the next Budget.

Maolíosa McHugh (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as a ráiteas. Does the £19 million for the victims' pension scheme allow it to commence this year? In the event that the British Government do not step up to the plate to support the scheme, how long can it continue?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

The Executive have given a commitment, including a commitment in the courts, that the scheme will go ahead, and it is going ahead. There is some slight delay. The £19 million identified by the Member is the amount estimated by the Department of Justice, and it is based on the number of people who will access the scheme. The estimate can be used in this financial year, and we have committed to doing that.

Of course, our dialogue with Treasury continues. We have challenged Treasury. According to their statement of funding policy, the Government who design and legislate for a scheme are responsible for the cost. That discussion with the Treasury continues. A number of weeks ago, I met the Chancellor of the Exchequer. I had that discussion with him, and we have heard back from him since that meeting. We continue to have exchanges with him. There is no doubt, given the estimates that we have, on which all of this is based, that the cost, not necessarily this year, at the beginning of the scheme, but over the next four to five years, after which it tapers off over the lifetime of the scheme, would be beyond the affordability of the Executive

Matthew O'Toole (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

Minister, I welcome the £30 million allocation to the Department of Health for elective care, particularly as, in response to a question for written answer from Mark Durkan, you said that you personally did not have the power to allocate money to the Department of Health. I notice that the statement says:

"I am providing ... to the Department of Health ... £31·5 million".

I welcome that change of heart on who allocates the money.

Minister, you said that the reduced RRI borrowing might be allocated later in the financial year. Is it not better to come up with potential places to allocate that money earlier in the financial year rather than later? While you are right that we will have more information later in the financial year, if it is left until then, it will, by definition, be more difficult to deliver that within this financial year.

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Lest the Member misunderstand, I make the statement on my behalf, and the Executive agree the allocations that I propose to them. I would have thought that, after a year or so on the Finance Committee, he might have grasped that.

We had more capital available than was bid for by Departments. It therefore made more sense to use conventional capital rather than to get into RRI borrowing for some of the capital projects that had been identified. We can access RRI borrowing throughout the year. If Departments have any other ideas, I very much welcome their coming forward with them.

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

Like Mr Buchanan, I welcome Stephen Dunne to the Chamber today.

My question is on capital funding. From the statement, it is clear that £91 million of capital funding was available but that bids of only £61·3 million were made, all of which were fully met. From my perspective, that is very concerning, particularly in the light of increasing construction costs. Is the Minister confident that everything is being done to ensure that we maximise the capital funding available?

FTC has also been talked about. Numerous reports have come out about the need for joined-up working and collaboration that make the case for having an infrastructure commission. Is the Minister confident that everything is being done to ensure that we can shift the capital funding and invest in our green recovery?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

It is early in the financial year, and this is the first monitoring round exercise. All Departments got their capital allocation only at the start of April, so the likelihood that some have already assessed that they do not have enough capital and will therefore need to come forward with significant bids is slim. Perhaps costs are a feature, but, as the year rolls on, other features will reduce capital spend, such as planning exercises and various hold-ups that happen over the course of significant capital projects. It is therefore not surprising that, on top of the capital that they have already got, there are not huge additional bids for capital from Departments this early in the financial year. Although we had a standstill Budget for resource, we had some extra money for capital, so Departments might have got a better allocation in that regard. We will, of course, continue to monitor the situation and engage with Departments. We do not want to see any underspend. We want to see money managed properly, and we will engage over the year to make sure that that is the case.

Jemma Dolan (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Minister, the £31·5 million provides an immediate injection of funding to tackle waiting lists. What are your views on how longer-term funding might be provided to bring down waiting lists? Can that be done as part of a multi-year Budget?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

There is no doubt that that is helpful for the Department in the short term, but, as the Health Minister and I have agreed many times, what we need is longer-term recurrent funding. We can do that only in a multi-year Budget scenario, through which we can employ people to address waiting lists. Other than that, we can, in quite a lot of cases, spend money in the private sector to try to reduce waiting lists, but that does not fix the ongoing problem of our health service's ability to manage waiting lists in the longer term. The longer-term solution is health transformation and the plan that the Health Minister has outlined. It is about ensuring that we have the right number of staff working in the NHS to be able to deal with the issues into the future.

Pat Catney (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Lagan Valley)

I read with interest about the number of development-led capital projects that have historically been funded through FTC. I am sure that you know where I am going with this, Minister. It strikes me that the Maze/Long Kesh development in my constituency of Lagan Valley is a perfect project to which to award such funding. Given the historical underspending of FTC, will you push the First Minister and the deputy First Minister to bring forward plans for the site in order to utilise that funding?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I know that the Member has a constituency interest, but, regardless of that, he is correct in saying that the site has enormous potential, and the need for it to be properly developed is long overdue. I look forward to development plans being brought through the Executive Office and then the Executive, and for spend to be attached to them. If we are heading into a budgetary planning exercise over the summer and into the autumn, that would be the time at which to identify what is required for the site.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

I thank the Minister for his statement. He reports that, in the previous financial year, some £19·2 million of financial transactions capital was returned to the Treasury unspent and that some £57·6 million is available this year, of which £46·4 million remains unallocated. That could be useful to develop social housing. If the Housing Executive were restructured, it could help to fund housing through it. If Northern Ireland Water were restructured, it would have potential there. How will the Minister ensure that we make good use of that large amount of money that remains unallocated? Can we afford to wait until the October monitoring round to ensure that it is well spent in this financial year?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

The Member's suggestions about the Housing Executive and Northern Ireland Water would obviously require a much longer period if those organisations were to transform themselves or to move into the position where they could access that funding. There are other opportunities to access it. Departments have only improved the picture from last year. I am speaking off the top of my head, but I think that something like £90 million was returned last year. That figure may be incorrect. It was certainly a larger amount. It has improved. It is about getting Departments to understand how that can be utilised and getting them involved in that. Of course, there is a longer-term transition process in relation to a number of arm's-length bodies, which might mean that it is availed of more readily in the years ahead. We want to see the picture improve over the course of the year. Rather than wait until the October monitoring round, we will continue to engage with Departments in the meantime to ensure that they understand the opportunities that exist with that facility and bring forward schemes in order to avail themselves of it.

Colm Gildernew (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as a ráiteas. The Minister has allocated £5·1 million towards the A5 and A6 projects. Will that allocation ensure that progress is made on those important road-infrastructure projects this year?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Yes: undoubtedly, it will. Obviously, there are other issues to be overcome with the A5. Inquiries and other matters have held up that project, which has been far too long in its delivery. Certainly, I know from travelling on the A6 that significant progress has been made on that road. I look forward to the day when there is that connection to the north-west, with both the A5 and A6, improved railway links and improved connectivity with the City of Derry Airport. That will fill a significant gap in the island's infrastructure.

Paula Bradshaw (Alliance, Belfast South)

I thank the Minister for his statement. The Alliance Party is delighted to see that there is £31·5 million for elective care. We very much welcome the Health Minister's approach to that. I have wider concerns, in that over £6 billion is spent on health every year. When scrutinising the Health and Social Care Bill, I have raised concerns about how services are commissioned. How can we spend so much money and still have such huge waiting lists? How is Finance engaging with the Department of Health on the Health and Social Care Bill and how that Department will commission and fund services? We cannot keep dropping small amounts of money into it. There needs to be proper reform and financial management.

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I do not disagree that there needs to be that longer-term approach. That is possible under a multi-annual Budget setting. It is difficult year-to-year. Last November, the Department of Health found out that, basically, it would have the same budget this year as it had last year, and it has only a one-year budget. As the Member knows, the Executive have prioritised Health. I am sure that they will continue to do so. However, we want to get to a scenario where health transformation and dealing with waiting lists, workforce planning and all those more acute issues are properly funded and planned over the years ahead, so that we can actually deliver that longer-term change. Otherwise, we will end up in a situation like this, where we are trying to fix acute problems with in-year cash injections. While that is welcome, it is not a long-term solution.

Declan McAleer (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

I thank the Minister for his statement. I want to express my disappointment that DAERA has not bid for any money in the June monitoring round. That is made even worse given the fact that £29·7 million of capital funding has been unallocated. I look at other Departments, such as Communities, which has bid successfully for work that is similar to that carried out by DAERA. For example, the Department for Communities bid for £1·7 million for climate change funding. That brings into question DAERA's ability to forward plan and to scan the horizon for needs that are there. I have flagged up that issue repeatedly here. It is very disappointing for rural communities that there are no bids from DAERA at this time. We need to follow up on that.

Can the Minister outline the rationale as to why DAERA requested to reclassify £1·6 million of resource DEL into capital DEL for the common market organisation funding?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

There was an ability to transfer that resource into capital. It is a fairly complicated issue, but I am happy to ensure that Finance officials write to you and your Committee to give an explanation for that.

Daniel McCrossan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, West Tyrone)

I thank the Minister for the statement. Minister, you will be aware that, since 2010, school budgets have received savage cuts, approaching 10%. Indeed, children in NI were among the most disadvantaged when compared with other jurisdictions. The money has never been restored, and the Department of Education has constantly made bids to your Department. For example, this year, £116 million was sought and £39 million was delivered. When will you, Minister, prioritise education, or is it not a priority for you or your party?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

The Member knows that it is the Executive that set the priorities, including the Minister from his party, and the Executive agree those priorities, including his own Minister, who, I presume, speaks on behalf of his party. We have made health the priority for the Executive. Of course, we try to prioritise education as well, because the education of our young people and support for our young people is hugely important, and that is why the Department of Education is the single largest recipient of funding in this monitoring round, particularly in relation to special educational needs.

The Executive can only deliver the Budget that they receive, and while we wish to prioritise things and will continue to prioritise health, when we get an annual budget of the same amount, that, in effect, means a cut. Departments may well identify pressures and make bids, and something like, I think, £1·3 billion of additional pressures which could not be met were identified across all Departments ahead of the Budget. That gives you a sense of the scale of the impact of eight or nine years of austerity policies from Westminster and the effect that they have had on the delivery of public services. Education is not on its own in suffering, and it will be supported whenever we can find money to support it, but the Executive decide the allocation of the funding and the priorities, and we have prioritised health in the time ahead.

Sinéad Ennis (Sinn Féin, South Down)

I thank the Minister for his statement. Minister, the statement indicates that the £18 million that was allocated for the delivery of Casement Park could not be spent because the planning permission was not yet received. Can the Minister give assurances that, as an Executive flagship project, it is still a priority for him and that he will ensure that the necessary funds are found, when they are needed, to deliver Casement Park?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

We had allocated in full what was anticipated to be required for this year, and, unfortunately, the delay in planning has pushed that back. That means that, because it is ring-fenced and because it is a flagship project, the Department for Communities had to return the unspent capital for that. It is an agreed flagship project for the Executive. It was part of the NDNA commitments, so I fully expect it to be funded into the future, and whatever is needed for the years beyond next year will be provided by the Executive.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

I want to return to the issue that Mr McCrossan raised. The outcome for Education is devastatingly disappointing. Not a penny for school maintenance. Not a penny for delegated budgets. Those are two of the most crying needs in our community, yet the Department for Communities, a Department that was so over-feted with funding during COVID that it squandered it on golf clubs and others besides, is a key winner again. Even though Communities had a 20% underspend on its ring-fenced resource and large reduced requirements on its non-ring-fenced resource and its capital, it is a winner again, and Education, one of our biggest needs, is a loser, particularly on school maintenance and delegated budgets.

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

As I said, Education probably gets the largest single allocation from this monitoring round. I know that he is not personally responsible, but the people from this part of the world who cheerled the Tories into power and who sustained them in power when they had opportunities to change the Government in Westminster over that time — I have not heard him criticising them for that decision — are ultimately responsible for the deficit in Education and all the other budgets. As I say, there is over £1 billion of unmet pressures across all our budgets as a consequence of nine years of cheerleading the Tories into power and sustaining them in power when there were alternative opportunities for different Governments.

Gerry Carroll (People Before Profit Alliance, Belfast West)

I would like a bit more detail, please, on the elective care money for waiting lists. Will the Minister give a breakdown of where that money will be spent and the proportion that will be spent on private or independent providers? If not, when will he and we receive that information?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I am afraid that the Member will have to go to the Department of Health for that breakdown. As I said in response to previous questions, we find ourselves in a situation where we have to try to give emergency money, if you like, given that the tendency of the Health Department over the years has been to use the private sector to reduce waiting lists. As, I am sure, the Member will agree, the longer-term solution is to have a sufficient number of staff working in our health service to take care of the people who have to be taken care of. That is the long-term solution that I want to get to.

Justin McNulty (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

Minister, I note the question on Casement Park and you talked about delays to the planning permission. Will you confirm that you have budgeted for the additional spend that will be necessary once planning permission is granted, hopefully, in the not-too-distant future?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I confirmed that we had given, as part of the allocation to the Department for Communities in the Budget that was just passed in the Assembly, the money that, it was anticipated, would be required for Casement over this year. That money — I think it was £20 million — was given to the Department for Communities and ring-fenced for Casement. That will now not be required in total, because the planning permission delay means that construction did not start as soon as we would like. What will be required over this financial year is available to the Department for Communities, and the amount of money it anticipates it will not be able to spend will be returned because it is ring-fenced for that specific project. Of course, it is a flagship project; it is an NDNA project; it has been committed to by the Executive; and it will be seen through.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

That concludes questions on the statement. I ask Members to take their ease before we move to the next topic.

(Mr Deputy Speaker [Mr Beggs] in the Chair)

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

In compliance with section 52 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998, I wish to make the following statement on the twenty-third North/South Ministerial Council (NSMC) meeting in the health and food safety sectoral format, which was held by videoconference on 26 March 2021. Junior Minister Declan Kearney MLA and I represented the Northern Ireland Executive at the meeting, while the Irish Government were represented by Stephen Donnelly TD, Minister for Health, and Roderic O'Gorman TD, Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth. I chaired the meeting. The statement has been agreed with junior Minister Kearney, and I make it on behalf of us both.

The Council reiterated its appreciation to all those who have played a part in the response to the COVID-19 pandemic, particularly the health and social care workers who have led from the front and led the front-line response. The Council received a briefing from the Chief Medical Officers (CMOs) on the current public health situation. We discussed the ongoing response to the COVID-19 pandemic and the continued close and productive cooperation between Health Ministers, Chief Medical Officers and health administrations in both jurisdictions to deliver an effective public health response.

The Council welcomed the signing of a memorandum of understanding (MOU) between both Departments to address cooperation and mutual support in critical care delivery. We noted the ongoing cooperation on contact tracing, including the established processes for sharing the necessary details between the Public Health Agency (PHA) and the Health Service Executive (HSE). Ministers welcomed the ongoing collaboration between the two jurisdictions on the further development of the proximity app and noted the ongoing discussions between the two Administrations about a data-sharing agreement in relation to passengers arriving into each jurisdiction. We noted that officials from both jurisdictions will continue to consider the relevant learnings from the phases of the pandemic and exchange views to foster commonality in their approach, where possible, and provide a progress update at a future North/South ministerial health meeting.

Ministers discussed the implications of the UK's withdrawal from the EU, and the Council noted the update provided on that matter.

Ministers welcomed the progress made to date on implementing the Council’s current work programme in the health sector and noted that the Departments of Health have identified additional areas in which there is potential for further development and collaboration between the health authorities in both jurisdictions.

The Council also noted the proposed revisions to the work programme in the area of child protection, which covers a three year period up to 2024.

The Council agreed the updated work programme and noted that work to ensure that the work programme reflects the priorities of each Administration will continue and that a further draft revised work programme will be presented for consideration at a future NSMC health sectoral meeting.

Ministers noted the continued progress on the development and implementation of strategies to prevent the harm related to alcohol and drug misuse in both jurisdictions. We also noted the successful enactment of the Public Health (Alcohol) Act 2018, which is designed to address the health impacts of harmful consumption of alcohol in Ireland by reducing consumption levels, delaying the age at which young people begin to drink and regulating the sale and supply of alcohol products. The Council noted the Northern Ireland Department of Health's consultation 'Making Life Better – Preventing Harm & Empowering Recovery: A Strategic Framework to Tackle the Harm from Substance Use'. Ministers noted the potential for further collaboration on issues connected with alcohol and drug use and the developments in relation to obesity prevention policy in both jurisdictions. We also noted that, following the UK's withdrawal from the EU, tobacco and related products on sale in Northern Ireland must continue to comply with the requirements of the EU tobacco products directive.

Ministers noted the update on suicide prevention initiatives in both jurisdictions, including the joint working on the self-harm registry and the continued collaboration between the Public Health Agency and the National Office for Suicide Prevention, working with the GAA, the Irish Rugby Football Union (IRFU) and Ulster Rugby on a health and well-being project.

The Council noted the updates on the all-island congenital heart disease network and the North/South living donor exchange kidney transplant service.

The Council noted that over 700 cross-border patients have received treatment at the North West Cancer Centre since November 2016, demonstrating how health cooperation delivers real benefits to citizens. Ministers noted that a renewed memorandum of understanding on the Ireland-Northern Ireland National Cancer Institute Cancer Consortium was agreed by both Health Ministers and the director of the US National Cancer Institute on 16 March 2021. We also noted the work of the US-Ireland research and development partnership in relation to cancer research, including work combining international expertise from the Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland (RCSI), Queen’s University Belfast, the Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center (MSKCC) and GE Global Research. The Council noted that the Health Research Board (HRB) recently amended its host institution policy to enable eligibility for Northern Ireland research-performing institutions to apply to act as host institutions for HRB grants.

Ministers welcomed the update on the ongoing work of the All Ireland Institute of Hospice and Palliative Care (AIIHPC). The Council noted the importance of continuing to support the ongoing work of the AIIHPC to improve palliative care and quality of life for people with life-limiting conditions and their carers across the island of Ireland.

The Council approved the revised child protection work programme and the priorities set out for the three-year period until 31 December 2024. Ministers noted the latest position provided on other matters, including the updating of the protocol between Northern Ireland and Ireland for handling interjurisdictional child cases and that an updated protocol will be considered at a future meeting of the NSMC. The Council noted that a knowledge exchange forum of child protection practitioners from both jurisdictions who are working at an operational level has been established with an initial focus on the sharing of learning from the implementation of the signs of safety methodology that is being taken forward in both jurisdictions. Ministers also noted that additional opportunities to extend the remit of the group will be developed in consultation with the NSMC child protection officials group. An update will be provided to a future meeting of the Council.

Ray Dolan, the chief executive officer of Safefood, provided an overview of the work of Safefood and updates on campaigns related to weight management, handwashing and Christmas food safety. The Council noted that Safefood has developed and distributed various resources in educational settings, delivered events including webinars and a podcast series and promoted healthy eating guidelines. The Council noted that Safefood has engaged with customers on social media and has carried out research on food allergens, sustainable food policy and fiscal and pricing policies related to food and non-alcoholic drinks.

Ministers received an update on the work of Safefood networks, including community food initiatives and knowledge networks, and on progress in the tripartite initiative between Safefood, the Public Health Agency and the Food Standards Agency Northern Ireland in rolling out minimum nutritional standards for catering for staff and visitors in health and social care settings while supporting nutritional standards for food in schools. Ministers approved the process for the recruitment of the chief executive of Safefood.

We agreed that the next North/South Ministerial Council health and food safety meeting will be held in late 2021.

Colm Gildernew (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat, Minister; thank you for your statement.

Minister, the first memorandum of understanding on COVID-19 cooperation was signed in April 2020. You have announced that the Chief Medical Officer will review the MOU. On 16 March, in advance of the NSMC meeting, I asked you about the scope and scale of the review. Will you set that out for us?

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for his question. The matter was not covered at the North/South Ministerial Council meeting. We talked about the MOU on critical care delivery and about where we could interact and exchange ICU patients if necessary. The review of the memorandum of understanding on the greater work specifically on COVID is ongoing. We have asked the Institute of Environmental Health, an external body, to conduct that review, rather than doing it in-house or asking the Republic of Ireland Government to do it.

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

The Minister said that there are ongoing discussions between the two Administrations on a data-sharing agreement for passengers arriving in each jurisdiction. That refers, of course, to passenger locator forms. Those discussions have been ongoing for more than a year. Can the Minister explain why, he thinks, the Irish Government have continually refused to share that information and what impact that has had on our efforts to contain the spread of COVID-19 in Northern Ireland?

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for his question and welcome him to his position as Deputy Chair of the Health Committee. I look forward to working with him in the future.

On the passenger locator form, positive steps have been taken in the past few weeks, and I hope that we will have that data sharing in place in the next few weeks. Tests are going on at the minute. One of the concerns that we raised while progress was being made was about the data breach that had occurred in the Republic of Ireland through their online and electronic systems. We are seeking reassurance that the security is in place for data sharing to proceed. However, great progress has been made.

Over the past year, it has been a great frustration that we have not been able to obtain that data. The Member will know that I have raised the matter on various occasions. The concern about international travellers being able to enter Northern Ireland and the rest of the United Kingdom via Dublin Airport has been raised not just between Health Ministers but between the First Minister, the deputy First Minister and the Taoiseach. I am hopeful, however, that we may resolve the issue once and for all in the next few weeks.

Cara Hunter (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

I thank the Minister for his statement today, which I welcome, especially the continued collaboration between the Public Health Agency and the National Office for Suicide Prevention. The statement mentions a health and well-being project with the GAA and Ulster Rugby. We know that those sports clubs play a huge, positive role in all of our lives, so that is most welcome. Are there any further details on what that important health and well-being project may look like?

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for that valuable point. Over the past months, we have seen the interaction with and the support given by different sporting codes in relation to COVID. Suicides, as we all know, are preventable, not inevitable, which is why that piece of work is set out in the strategy. The strategy includes a number of programmes designed to prevent suicide, including the Towards Zero Suicide initiative, the multi-agency triage team collaboration between the health and social care (HSC) services, the PSNI and the Northern Ireland Ambulance Service (NIAS), resilience building and suicide prevention training. The strategy aims to reduce the suicide rate in Northern Ireland by 10% by 2024. As the Member will know, Protect Life 2 also ensures that suicide prevention services and supports are delivered appropriately in deprived areas, where suicide and self-harm rates are highest. When we engage with the three sporting codes and utilise their strength in getting the message out, it mainly helps us to communicate on mental health and suicide prevention with the hard-to-reach target audiences, who, unfortunately, as we know well in Northern Ireland, are mostly young men. That is why utilising those sporting codes is important to us.

Alan Chambers (UUP, North Down)

I place on record my personal welcome to Mr Stephen Dunne to the Chamber today. I look forward to working with him.

I thank the Minister for his statement. I refer to the paragraph on the implications of EU exit. Does the Minister have any sense of whether the Irish Government realise how potentially disruptive and detrimental the protocol is to the supply of medicines and medical devices to Northern Ireland? On that point, how confident is he that there will be progress this week from the European Commission on that very concerning issue?

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for his question. It became only too real for the Irish Government when article 16 was triggered in relation to COVID vaccines earlier this year, and they saw the real impact and the dangers that it could have. I am not sure whether they are completely alive to the real effect that it is having on our health service, but I continue to raise it with Her Majesty's Government and Minister Ed Argar, who leads on that vital work.

I hope that we will see an announcement on some direction of travel in the next few days. I know that there is concentration on sausages and fresh foods at the minute, rightly so, to get that issue resolved. However, as suppliers of medicines need a six-month notification to cease a market, it will very soon become very real for anyone who wants to cease supplying the Northern Ireland market at the end of the year. Those declarations will have to be made within the next few weeks, if not days. I hope that we see a resolution that continues the delivery of supplies to Northern Ireland.

Paula Bradshaw (Alliance, Belfast South)

Thank you, Minister, for your statement today. You referred to discussions on the potential for further collaboration on issues connected to alcohol and drug use. Was the minimum unit pricing of alcohol raised, and will you give us an update on how your Department is taking that forward in Northern Ireland?

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for the question. It was raised, and, in fact, I had an individual meeting with Minister Frank Feighan, who leads on that work, outside and as a conjunct to it as well. As the Member will know, we are only too aware of the dangers of alcohol consumption. Since 2018, I have been following closely the Scottish Government's introduction of minimum unit pricing. It is part of our substance use strategy. That includes my commitment to hold a full public consultation on the introduction of minimum unit pricing in Northern Ireland within the next year. I noted with interest the Irish Government's recent decision to proceed with the implementation of minimum unit pricing of alcohol. There are ongoing conversations. We would have liked to introduce it in both jurisdictions at the same time. Unfortunately, once again, due to our time frames and our mandates not being concurrent, that is not possible. The consultation will be in my substance use strategy later this year.

Jonathan Buckley (DUP, Upper Bann)

Following on from Mr Chambers's question, I ask how concerned the Minister is, and, indeed, how bothered his Southern counterpart is, about the harmful and selfish implementation of the Northern Ireland protocol and its impact on medicines and medical devices coming into Northern Ireland, given that 98% of such items come from the UK mainland. Is there a recognition that an extension of the grace period, as welcome as it is in the interim, will not cut it as a long-term solution to that vital issue?

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for his question. As my response to Mr Chambers indicated, I am concerned. It is my responsibility and desire to make sure that the people of Northern Ireland get the same access to drugs and medical devices as the rest of the UK population gets. I am not in a place to comment on how concerned the Health Minister of the Republic of Ireland is. He can and will speak for himself.

As the Member indicated, although a grace period is welcome, there is already an extended grace period for medicines and medical devices until the end of this year. As I said in my response to Mr Chambers, however, suppliers of medicines and medical devices must give six months' notice to quit before they can leave the market, so if suppliers decide to quit the Northern Ireland market while still supplying the rest of the United Kingdom, that will happen in the next few days or weeks. That is of great concern to me and those in my Department. Later this week, I will meet Minister Ed Argar again to discuss what has come out of UK-EU negotiations on medicines.

Declan McAleer (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

The Minister referred to North/South cooperation and its importance in our response to COVID-19. Does he believe that, despite the fact that there are two jurisdictions, the island of Ireland is and should be treated as one epidemiological unit? Should that be recognised in agreeing a common travel policy for all arrivals to the island?

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for his point. It is one that has been raised numerous times over the past 15 months. It was the deputy First Minister who said that there should be a common travel agreement across all the islands in the common travel area. No matter if we look at this island as one unit, the common travel area also allows anyone to travel east-west without checks and balances. It would therefore make more sense to look at both islands as one epidemiological unit.

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

Minister, in your statement, you mentioned that the Health Research Board in the South has extended its policy to cover research institutions in the North, such as our universities. That is a very welcome move, and it will further enhance our universities' standing. Will that move replace the funding that was lost as a result of Brexit? Will it allow our universities to access EU research grants that were lost as a result of Brexit?

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

I do not have the detail about what that will allow as far as accessing funding from EU bodies is concerned. It is, however, a welcome step that that research and development will continue. What is also welcome was the signing of the memorandum of understanding on cancer research by Northern Ireland, the Irish Republic and the National Cancer Institute in the United States. That is a big step forward and a welcome commitment to cross-border and international working on best practice and research and development.

Justin McNulty (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

Minister, I am sure that you will join me in welcoming back the Member for North Antrim after his recent heart scare. It is good to see him back in the hot seat.

I welcome the statement. A lot of very important matters are covered in it, such as contact tracing, critical care delivery, the proximity app, data sharing, harm related to alcohol and drug misuse, obesity prevention policy, cancer research cooperation and suicide prevention. So many important matters were discussed that would not have been if that North/South Ministerial Council meeting had not happened.

I want to ask about the work that is being done by the GAA, the Irish Rugby Football Union (IRFU) and Ulster Rugby on health and well-being, specifically on suicide prevention. Did discussions take place about the impact of the pandemic on people's mental health? Does the Minister agree that the GAA, IRFU, Ulster Rugby and other sporting organisations can play an important role? As they deal with young people, weekly and daily, they can reach out to them and give them assistance, identifying where there are issues, potentially working together and collaborating to address the mental health crisis that could be an outcome of the pandemic, and —.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

I remind the Member that this is an opportunity to ask a question.

Justin McNulty (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

OK. Very quickly, Minister: I met representatives of FC Mindwell, on Saturday, by coincidence. Glenn Emerson and Ciaran Feehan, who were two great soccer players in their day, are now promoting a local soccer club team that works only to help with mental health issues. You see the importance of sport. What I am getting at here, Minister —.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

Can we have a question, please?

Justin McNulty (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

You see the importance of sporting bodies. Do you know how they can be embraced to help to deal with the issues at play here?

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for his statement.

[Laughter.]

I also welcome Philip McGuigan back to the Chamber. Philip, you look well, and I see, on the front page of the 'The Irish News', that you have thanked the health services for the support that they were able to give you.

In regard to the Member's point, we have seen the voluntary and community sector and our sporting codes step up, throughout the pandemic, with getting out the mental health message and supporting our communities over the past 15 months. The organisations that the Member talks about should look to the mental health support fund, which I hope to announce in the next week. There is access to a £10 million pot of funding for organisations that support and work with mental health organisations and individuals across Northern Ireland in the community. I encourage the Member not just to sing the praises of those individuals and organisations but to encourage them to look to that funding, so that they can continue that work over the next three years.

Philip McGuigan (Sinn Féin, North Antrim)

I thank the Minister and all the Members who have wished me well since I have come back. I have put on record — it is important to do so — my thanks for the professionalism, courtesy and good humour of all the staff who I encountered during my stay in hospital.

In your statement, Minister, you indicated the ongoing and welcome work on this island in health promotion in areas such as alcohol, drugs, obesity and suicide prevention. You will be aware of the work being carried out in the North by the Communities Minister in trying to bring gambling legislation into the modern era. The current, very serious and growing problem of gambling addiction on this island needs a public health focus, over and above a legislative one, for education, prevention and recovery strategies. Was there any discussion, at the meeting, on the health impact of gambling addiction, and, if not, will you commit to raising it at the next meeting?

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for his point. It was not covered at the meeting, but it has been covered in conversations that I have had with his party colleague the Minister for Communities. I will ask that it be put forward for the agenda of the next meeting. I have no problem in doing that and including it among the issues that have already been covered in the North/South Ministerial Council meetings that I have attended.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

The statement begins with the declaration that it is made, "In compliance with Section 52". However, section 52C(2) is very explicit in its terms, which suggest to me that the statement is not made in compliance. Section 52C(2) says that the statement shall be made:

"as soon as reasonably practicable after the meeting".

This meeting took place in March. There have been 23 sitting days of the Assembly, not including today, since then. Why has it taken three months to make a statement, where there is a statutory obligation to make it as soon as practicable?

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for his point, and he raised it about a previous North/South Ministerial Council statement that I made. We had omitted that paragraph from that statement, so we made sure that it was in this one.

With regard to the 23 sitting days, the Member will note that I have been in the Chamber for quite a few of them, making statements on many issues, such as elective care and mental health, and responding in a number of debates. We brought this statement forward as soon as reasonably practicable to get it here, so that I had time to get it in the Order Paper to be given proper consideration, because of the content and the large-scale and important issues that were discussed at that North/South Ministerial Council meeting.

Gerry Carroll (People Before Profit Alliance, Belfast West)

I thank the Minister for his statement, and I wish Philip McGuigan well. Hopefully, he is on his bike again soon.

Minister, was the decision on appointing a representative from the formula industry to the Safefood advisory committee discussed at this meeting? I have raised that with you in questions for written answer. Given that you and your Department are committed to the promotion of breastfeeding, what message does that decision send out? Did you have any input into that decision, and was it discussed in any detail or any concerns raised about it at the meeting?

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member. I know that he has supplied a number of questions for written answer on that specific point. I am aware of concerns surrounding an individual appointed to Safefood's advisory committee last year. Appointments to the advisory committee are not representative appointments. The advisory committee provides technical advice and guidance to assist Safefood in setting strategy and delivering on its business plans. There will be no impact on my Department's initiatives on breastfeeding. Safefood's advisory committee draws its members from a wide range of experts from the fields of food science, diet and health, industry, communications and regulations, and they act as a resource to Safefood and do not represent their employers. As long as the establishment of the advisory committee complies with the relevant legislation, the two Health Departments do not get involved in selecting the members.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

That concludes questions to the Minister of Health on his statement. I ask Members to take their ease for a few moments.

Executive Committee Business

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

I call the Minister for Communities, Ms Deirdre Hargey, to move the Bill.

Moved. — [Ms Hargey (The Minister for Communities).]

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

Members will have a copy of the Marshalled List of amendments detailing the order for consideration. The amendments have been grouped for debate in the provisional grouping of amendments selected list. There is a single group for debate — amendment No 1 and opposition to clauses 2 and 3 stand part — which deals with performance and opposition to clauses. Once the debate is completed, the amendments will be moved formally as we go through the Bill and the Question put without further debate. The Questions on clauses stand part will be taken at the appropriate points in the Bill. If that is clear, we shall proceed.

Clause 1 (Meetings: effect of regulations under the Coronavirus Act)

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

No amendments have been tabled to clause 1.

Question put, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

Notice taken that 10 Members were not present. House counted, and, there being fewer than 10 Members present, the Deputy Speaker ordered the Division Bells to be rung. Upon 10 Members being present —

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

No amendments have been tabled to clause 1.

Clause 1 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 2 (Meetings: power to make similar or further provision)

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

We now come to the group of amendments for debate. The Minister has signalled her intention to oppose the Question that clause 2 stand part of the Bill. With that Question, it will be convenient to debate the opposition to the Question that clause 3 stand part of the Bill and amendment No 1. I call the Minister for Communities, Deirdre Hargey, to address her opposition to clause 2, the other opposition and the amendment listed in the group.

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

Mr Allister had given notice of his intention to oppose the Question that clause 3 stand part of the Bill.

The following amendment stood on the Marshalled List:

In clause 5, page 4, line 5, leave out subsection (2). — [Mr Allister.]

Deirdre Hargey (Sinn Féin, Belfast South)

Due to Members' concerns, I gave a commitment at Second Stage to remove clause 2, following which I tabled a notice of my intention to oppose the Question that clause 2 stand part of the Bill. I acknowledge Members' concerns about clause 2, including concerns regarding the level of Assembly scrutiny that subordinate legislation made under the clause would be subject to.

The intention behind clause 2 was to create an enabling power that would allow provisions for remote meetings to be further extended or even made permanent by means of subordinate legislation, should that be considered necessary or desirable after the regulations being extended by clause 1 end in March 2022. The intention was not to change the voting, speaking rights or participation in meetings by regulations; rather, it was to provide flexibility for councils to hold meetings remotely and to make provision on how the legislation governing council meetings should apply in the context and to facilitate meetings held remotely. The aim was not to restrict the rights of councils but to enable them to hold remote meetings. Removing clause 2 will mean that councils will not have cover to hold meetings by remote hybrid after 25 March 2022, when the Coronavirus Act 2020 is scheduled to expire, or sooner, if that Act is to be suspended earlier.

The removal of the clause would result in another piece of primary legislation being required if future provisions on remote meetings are deemed essential. That could mean that a further Bill would need to be introduced and would need to proceed via accelerated passage, something we all want to avoid. Using that route could still leave a further gap in the legislative provision to allow councils to hold remote meetings post-25 March 2022, when the Coronavirus Act expires. Giving the timings and the number of Bills in the legislative programme, it may not be possible for a second Bill to be progressed during the current mandate.

At Second Stage, I indicated that, whilst I would give notice of my intention to oppose the Question that clause 2 stand part of the Bill, I would also give further consideration to whether a further amendment was needed to deal with any unintended consequences. At First Stage, I agreed that officials would brief the Committee for Communities on the Bill. That briefing took place on Thursday 24 June, during which allowing council meetings to be further extended or even to become a permanent fixture was discussed. Officials indicated that, whilst I would oppose clause 2 at Consideration Stage, I would like to explore the possibility of tabling a further amendment at Further Consideration Stage to provide a suitable enabling power to extend or make permanent the remote meetings provisions and, indeed, for those to be discussed with the Committee before that. From Members' comments during the Second Stage debate and from queries raised by the Committee for Communities, it would seem that there is some support for continuing the flexibility for remote working for council meetings post pandemic. Taking all that into account, I plan to table an amendment at Further Consideration Stage to introduce a new clause to allow further regulations to be made for council remote meetings. This will be subject to a draft affirmative resolution, which would allow robust scrutiny of any such future legislation. However, I am opposing clause 2 standing part of this Bill.

I have considered Jim Allister's intention to oppose clause 3. The intent of clause 3 was to amend sections 93, 94 and 95, and Part 12 of the Local Government Act (NI) 2014, to allow the Department to determine each year, after consultation with the local government auditor, councils for which a section 93 performance improvement audit or section 94 performance improvement assessment must be completed. Section 95 already provides that the Department, in consultation with the local government auditor, must determine the councils for which the auditor will issue an audit and assessment report each year in respect of performance improvement. The amendment to sections 93 and 94 would bring those sections into line with the approach already included in section 95. It is in no way intended to erode the accountability of councils, and the duty placed on councils to publish an assessment of their performance would remain.

As I stated during the Second Stage debate, the move to a risk-based audit approach was discussed during the Committee Stage of the Local Government Act 2014. An amendment was subsequently tabled and agreed at Consideration Stage, which is now section 95. However, further amendment is needed to sections 93 and 94 to provide the same flexibility as in section 95, which will allow the move to a risk-based audit approach in future. That being said, if the amendment were agreed, it would not hinder the overall intention of the Bill. The change could wait until some future time when a full review of the 2014 Act is being undertaken.

Finally, I have considered the amendment tabled by Jim Allister to remove clause 5(2). The intention behind 5(2) was to create a time-limited enabling power to allow the Department to produce regulations to amend or set aside for the 2022-23 year any performance improvement duties in Part 12 of the 2014 Act. It is important to stress that the power was only ever intended to be used if it proved absolutely necessary as a result of possible future impacts of the pandemic. If agreed, the amendment would mean that regulations could not be made promptly to set aside or amend performance improvement in statutory duties for 2022-23, if this were to be required. All that being said, again, if the amendment were agreed, it would not hinder the overall intention of the Bill.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

Members, Question Time is due to begin at 2:00 pm. I suggest that the House takes its ease until then. This debate will continue after Question Time, when the next speaker will be Paula Bradley.

The debate stood suspended.

(Mr Deputy Speaker [Mr McGlone] in the Chair)

Oral Answers to Questions — The Executive Office

Doug Beattie (UUP, Upper Bann)

1. Mr Beattie asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister which of their departmental commitments contained in New Decade, New Approach (NDNA) will not be met during the 2017-2022 mandate. (AQO 2281/17-22)

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

The 'New Decade, New Approach' document sets out an ambitious package of measures that covers a broad range of social, economic and cultural issues, all of which are important. The Member will know that the Executive's focus has been on managing the COVID-19 pandemic and charting the path for recovery. As we continue to move forward, we are committed to delivering all of TEO's NDNA commitments and moving on the things that have been delayed.

Our Department has made good progress on a number of issues, including providing support for victims and survivors of historical abuse, the conduct of Executive business and EU exit. The Executive will have the opportunity to consider the totality of the proposals in the context of the ongoing work to bring forward a new Programme for Government (PFG). A public consultation has concluded, the findings of which will inform decisions on the final shape and content of a new PFG outcomes framework, which we hope to bring forward very shortly.

Doug Beattie (UUP, Upper Bann)

I thank the deputy First Minister. There have been difficult times, of course. Part of New Decade, New Approach talks about the racial equality strategy. We have a framework in place, but, considering that 80% of Belfast-born teenagers from ethnic minorities want to leave the city due to racial attitudes, is there something that can be brought forward to try to address what is clearly a failing strategy?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Thanks to the Member. Of course, it is incumbent on us all to make this a welcoming society and somewhere where we all live and feel comfortable, and have a roof over our head and a job. Although we have the racial equality strategy, there is much more that needs to be done. We need to bring forward all the social inclusion strategies. It is about having an inclusive society that is valid in every part of your life. We will certainly not be found wanting in trying to shape things and build the better future that all our society deserves, including people who have come here and made this place their home.

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

It is good to hear about progress across a range of issues in NDNA. Will the Minister give an update on the adoption and children Bill?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I have been very keen to see that Bill progress for some time. It is vital legislation that will allow us, in the first instance, to improve outcomes for children and families in need, looked-after children and care leavers. It will provide greater opportunities for children and carers to experience permanence and stability, and it will also place a greater focus on children and young people's rights. That is what we owe to all the children who await adoption. I am pleased to report that progress has been made through the Executive, and we can now move on to the next stage of modernising our adoption laws. That is great news for children and prospective parents. It will move forward to the next stage in the Assembly, when Members will have a chance to debate the merits of the Bill and deal with it in its entirety.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Why, among all the New Decade, "Old" Approach commitments, was Irish language legislation thought to be more important that the multiple issues that affect our constituents, to the point where the deputy First Minister was prepared to ensure that there was no progress on any of those unless she got her way with her poisonous agenda? Will she remind me when the public consultation on Irish language legislation took place?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

The Executive Office is committed to ensuring that we bring forward all the NDNA commitments. That is the collective responsibility and will of the Executive. The implementation of many aspects of the political agreement that brought us back to power-sharing has been delayed. I am committed to delivering on those. We have to pick up from dealing with the COVID crisis before we can advance many of those things, including the language and cultural pieces and all the other issues that have been set out. There are, maybe, 200 commitments in NDNA, and we need to see progress on them all.

Chris Lyttle (Alliance, Belfast East)

2. Mr Lyttle asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister whether they will remove the exception of employment as a teacher in a school from the Fair Employment and Treatment (Northern Ireland) Order (FETO) 1998. (AQO 2282/17-22)

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

With your permission, a LeasCheann Comhairle, junior Minister Kearney will answer this question.

Declan Kearney (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

There appears to be general agreement that this provision needs to be reviewed. TEO officials have had some preliminary engagement with the Department of Education, as any such review must be taken forward collaboratively with the education sector. That review will, of course, include consideration of the removal of the exception.

Chris Lyttle (Alliance, Belfast East)

I thank the junior Minister for his answer, although it is fairly different from the responses that I have received previously on this matter. Will he support my proposal for private Member's legislation to remove the exception of teachers from the Fair Employment and Treatment (Northern Ireland) Order 1998?

Declan Kearney (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

I thank the Member for his supplementary. I share his frustration on this matter, which has taken much too long to progress. I am aware of the Bill that the Member has out for consultation. The blockage that has prevented the matter from going forward and ensuring an appropriate resolution — the withdrawal of the exception — is not with me. However, I will be very pleased to work directly with the Member to move the issue forward. I will be very happy to have a follow-up conversation with him on his consultation. I will approach that matter very positively indeed. We are on the same ground.

Emma Sheerin (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Does the junior Minister agree that the teachers' exception is out of sync with modern equality legislation? Will he reaffirm his commitment to deliver rights, equality and respect across all aspects of society?

Declan Kearney (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Chomhalta as ucht an cheist a chur, agus tá nasc idir an cheist seo agus an cheist a chuir an tUasal Lyttle. I agree that the teachers' exception from the fair employment legislation is entirely out of sync with modern equality legislation. Ní aontaímse léi mar éisceacht agus i mo thuairim ba cheart deireadh a chur léi láithreach bonn. I have noted the Equality Commission's previous interventions on the issue. The commission previously made a recommendation that the exception from the Fair Employment and Treatment Order 1998 should be removed. I share the commission's assessment of the issue:

"all teachers should be able to enjoy the same legislative protections as other workers."

My answer to the Member's second question is that my commitment to equality and to standing up for people's rights is unwavering. I am hopeful that we can see progress on the issue at hand in the time ahead. All barriers to equality in the workplace should be lifted. I want to see integration right across this society. That should extend to the integration of teachers in employment as well as to the increased promotion of integrated education itself.

John Stewart (UUP, East Antrim)

I agree that the exception is wrong. Does the junior Minister also accept that the petition of concern, which was used in 2016 to block the changes, was also wrong? Successive First Ministers and Education Ministers have said that the exception is wrong. Who is blocking it?

Declan Kearney (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

As I indicated in my answer to Mr Lyttle, the blockage is not with me. There is common ground on the matter. Whatever about 2016, this is 2021.

That legislative provision is outmoded and outdated. I believe that it runs counter to the progressive direction that society needs to take, which must be towards equality for everyone in the workforce and, in particular, full equality for and integration of our teachers. That becomes a firm foundation for advancing, promoting and mainstreaming a desire, which every Member needs to take forward, to achieve greater integration of education right across society, where our children are brought together to be taught jointly.

Peter Weir (DUP, Strangford)

3. Mr Weir asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister what steps they are taking to ensure that children and young people are not disadvantaged through 'Moving Forward: The Executive's Pathway Out Of Restrictions'. (AQO 2283/17-22)

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

The process for the relaxation of restrictions is outlined in our pathway out of restrictions. The process works through the Executive's COVID-19 task force and the cross-departmental working group, which acts as an advisory panel to the task force. Departments bring forward fully assessed relaxation proposals that relate to their areas of sectoral responsibility, outlining the evidence for the relaxation and the consultation that they have undertaken with stakeholders.

The proposals are then discussed and considered by the cross-departmental working group. Through that analysis and discussion, each Department has the opportunity to review the proposals, with a view to identifying any cross-cutting issues and providing input into collaborative approaches where there are interdependencies between possible relaxations. Where issues of consistency or inequality of application are identified, the responsible Department is expected to amend the proposal or bring forward a further proposal to remedy it.

Peter Weir (DUP, Strangford)

I thank the deputy First Minister for her answer. She will be aware of the good work that is often done over the summer, particularly by uniformed organisations. Will she provide an assurance that youth gatherings and overnight residential trips will be treated as a specific priority when the Executive are discussing relaxations next week?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I thank the Member for his question. I know that, in his previous role, he was keen for that issue to be progressed. I am pleased to say that, although the reopening of youth services was delayed — we entered a delay phase — because of the emerging data on the delta variant that we are all conscious of and worried about, we will revisit that issue on Thursday 1 July. Issues that will be revisited include live music, residential stays for youth services, the opening of theatres and indoor seated venues, the resumption of conferences and exhibitions, and allowing walk-ins to close-contact businesses.

Alongside that, officials are working towards next week's Executive meeting and what we can potentially bring forward then. We are always mindful of and informed by the medical and scientific advice. That is the position that we have taken all the way through. We will continue to keep the situation under review, but, all things being equal, we hope to be able to progress those things on Thursday, provided that doing so is supported by health advice and science.

Justin McNulty (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

I draw the Minister's attention to recent research done for the Education Committee. It included the recommendation that children should get 60 minutes of physical activity each day, which only 13% of children in the North are getting. Will the joint First Ministers undertake to bring that issue before the Executive and then bring forward a strategy to close the gap and ensure that our children get the recommended physical activity that they need for their well-being?

I know that Healthy Kidz is banging down the doors of the Department of Education, the Department of Health and the Executive Office to get them to help kids move forward, mentally and physically, in a healthy manner.

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I do not underestimate and absolutely value the importance of physical activity for our young people, particularly after 15 or 16 months of lockdown and not being able to take part in youth services, sport and everything else that they would otherwise have had the opportunity to do. Thankfully, we are in a better place today.

The Member raises an issue that is the policy responsibility of the Department of Education. It would therefore be for the Minister of Education to bring forward a proposal on it. I would be open to looking at such a proposal. If you want the Executive Office to look at it in conjunction with the Education Minister, you may wish to send us a note.

Nicola Brogan (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

The pandemic has had a disproportionate effect on many sectors of society that were already disadvantaged such as children and young people, women, those on low incomes and those with disabilities. Will the joint First Minister agree that our approach to recovery is an opportunity for us to build a better and fairer society by tackling inequalities and disadvantage?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

In short, yes. Absolutely, we have an opportunity in front of us that we must grab with both hands. I agree with the Member about the need to tackle the high levels of poverty, inequality and disadvantage that existed prior to COVID and which have had a bright light shone on them now. I am particularly aware that the social and economic impact of the pandemic has fallen hard on women, and we see that daily. Many women are in low-paid, precarious employment, and many others have lost their job. There has been a rise in domestic violence and abuse during the pandemic, and it has been alarming to see the level of domestic violence.

As we step our way out of the restrictions, the focus has to be on developing a more sustainable and strategic response that can break the cycles of poverty, exclusion and inequality. A core and central part of our recovery strategy has to be addressing social inequality and looking after the most vulnerable, the lonely, those in housing need, families living in poverty, those with a disability and workers on low incomes. We need to be serious about doing things differently and more effectively, and it means listening to people. If one thing stands out to me from the course of the pandemic, it is that we can do things differently and more speedily. We can be more responsive.

We need a plan for inclusive growth. We need to develop a new focus on community wealth-building to create a better and more sustainable economy by strengthening our communities, creating jobs and having sustainable development and local business networks. The Executive, as a whole, are committed to doing that. We owe it to people to take the opportunity to learn from a very negative experience, to take the positives and to run with them into the future.

Trevor Lunn (Alliance, Lagan Valley)

4. Mr Lunn asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister when the report of the Commission on Flags, Identity, Culture and Tradition (FICT) will be published. (AQO 2284/17-22)

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

With your permission, a LeasCheann Comhairle, junior Minister Kearney will answer question 4.

Declan Kearney (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

An Executive paper on progressing the FICT report was approved by the Executive on 25 March 2021. A FICT working group, involving junior Ministers, special advisers and officials, is taking forward the steps set out in the Executive paper, including cross-departmental engagement. Decisions on the publication of the FICT report will be a matter for all Executive Ministers working together.

Trevor Lunn (Alliance, Lagan Valley)

I thank the junior Minister for his answer. There is some history to this in that such reports are not always published in a timely fashion. This report appears to have been sidelined to a working group, which indicates to me that it might never see the light of day. The report, apparently, cost about £800,000. Can the junior Minister give more detail on the reason that the report has not been published? Will it ever be published?

Declan Kearney (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Chomhalta as an cheist a chur. Go raibh maith agatsa. I share the apprehension that the Member has expressed. I assure the Member of my full determination that the process will be fully and properly implemented and that the FICT report will be published. It is essential to how we move forward as an inclusive, united and pluralist society where there is respect and regard shown to all traditions. However, it is now almost a year since we took possession of the report. I have sought repeatedly with officials and through special advisers to see the matter expedited over recent months. The implementation programme needs to be owned by the entire Executive. All Ministers must buy into that approach, because they are cross-departmental issues. Sectarianism is not a silo issue; it needs to be met and faced down head-on by our entire Executive and, indeed, the entire Chamber.

The report was brought to the Executive, and I offer that information to be helpful to the Member. The intention was to have a special Executive meeting to discuss the report, recommendations and next steps. That has not happened. I have asked that it should be progressed. The blockage in bringing the issue to a comprehensive resolution does not rest with me. I encourage the Member to continue to be vocal on the issue in order to emphasise the necessity of bringing the work to a conclusion. I offer this caveat: the importance of ensuring that we do this as a collective Executive and a collective Chamber rests on the fact that the issue is deeply contentious.

We have a pathway in the report. It does not provide us with all the answers, but it provides us with some of the answers. For that reason, we need to get to that point. We need to ensure that the full report is brought into the public domain in a timely way. Let us do that in an orderly, agreed and systematic way and ensure that it does not become an issue that leads to further division and rancour in our society.

Peter Weir (DUP, Strangford)

Producing a report and finding consensus on how to implement it can be two different things. Does the Minister agree that it is important that that consensus be reached? Can he therefore give an assurance that all parties and all Ministers will be involved in finding consensus on the way forward?

Declan Kearney (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

I thank the Member for his observation and his question. He will recall the Executive meeting to which I referred, when I cautioned that we need to ensure that the issue does not become a free-for-all in the Executive or, indeed, in wider society. Yes, there is an absolute imperative to find consensus and agreement, and it needs to be inclusive of all parties. It is my aspiration and ambition that, on the basis of what we agree in the Executive and bring forward to the Chamber — this is the leadership that wider society expects of us — we go forward collectively, not just as five parties but as all Members, giving coherent leadership on the issues and setting out a progressive vision of change for the future where we can put these issues of rancour and contention behind us once and for all.

Jemma Dolan (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Minister, do you agree that the proliferation of flags at this time of year is an attempt to mark out territory and intimidate communities and should be roundly condemned across the Assembly?

Declan Kearney (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Chomhalta as an cheist sin a chur. I wholeheartedly agree with you: erecting flags to mark out territory instils fear, raises tensions, damages community relations and causes intimidation. Caithfear an fód a sheasamh sa Tionól seo in éadan an tseicteachais, is cuma cá as a dtig an seicteachas, caithfear an fód a sheasamh ina éadan. It is not acceptable, and we need to get to the point where we recognise that flags erected in mixed communal areas cause sectarian intimidation and that that is the driving motivation. That is characteristic of a number of traditionally mixed communal areas in my South Antrim constituency, including Antrim town, Mallusk and Hightown, where we see an increased proliferation of flags.

The police have a job to do on the matter. The police need to step up to the plate. There are other statutory agencies, such as the Housing Executive, that have a shared responsibility in tackling this cancer. Where there is such provocation, it needs to be challenged by everyone in political leadership. It does not matter where the provocation comes from or what position you have in political leadership: we have to stand together against any attempt to intimidate or raise tensions.

On a secondary and linked issue, I am deeply alarmed at the emerging potential for illegal bonfires at interfaces in Belfast, especially around Adam Street and at Lanark Way. Left unchallenged, that type of intimidation will serve only to strengthen the barriers to building a safe, shared and better future for us all. The politics and principles of NDNA and the Good Friday Agreement must have primacy. Everybody in society, regardless of who they are and where they live, has a right to live free from sectarian harassment, threat and intimidation, not just at this time of the year but all year round. Let us stand together against all forms of sectarian intimidation. That should be the clear message that leaves the Chamber today.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

I remind the Minister about the two-minute rule. Le do thoil, mura miste leat.

Pat Catney (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Lagan Valley)

I hear what the Minister says. We were told that the Executive approved a paper on progressing the FICT report on 25 March this year and that a FICT working group involving junior Ministers, advisers and officials was advancing cross-departmental engagement to take the report forward. What is causing the delay in progressing it? I hear what you said, junior Minister, but we need to know what the hold-up is and what progress has been made on the report. I hear what you said about your constituency: in my constituency of Lagan Valley, we have the same problems.

Declan Kearney (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Chomhalta as ucht an cheist a chur. To go back to the question that Mr Weir posed, we require consensus. You will, through your experience, understand well the joint basis of the Executive Office. It means that issues that fall within the ambit and remit of the Executive Office must command agreement and consensus on both sides. I assure you and reiterate that the blockage to moving forward with the timeline and pathway that have been set out for the FICT report does not rest with me.

Let us ensure that we get to a point where there is unanimity and agreement on how the report is brought forward and tabled. I said that we needed to ensure that it does not become a free-for-all. Tackling sectarianism, hatred and exclusion must be done in a strategic, thought-out way. The report provides us with the assistance and resource for doing that. Let us stop the prevarication, the blockages and all that hinders our moving forward with the work and ensure that, in a short period of months, we get back on track with the timeline that the Member referred to. All Executive parties need to buy into that. There should be no further hindrance or blockage to progress.

Paula Bradshaw (Alliance, Belfast South)

I am concerned that, if the FICT report is taken forward, it will be seen as a loss for a part of society, which will feel as though its cultural expression is being undermined. Is there an opportunity for the FICT report's recommendations to dovetail into the tripartite cultural Bill that is coming forward so that we can put forward positive ways in which cultural expression can be made and have a more harmonious, shared society?

Declan Kearney (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Chomhalta as ucht a ceist a chur. I agree with you. You made a wise observation about trying to get complementarity in how we move forward. The FICT report has been in the making since 2016. Finally, we have a draft report. Good work has been done by the junior Ministers, advisers and officials, certainly at the outset of taking receipt of the report. Officials have focused carefully on where we could, in fact, arrive at a point of consensus and unanimity.

The report contains many recommendations that deal with a huge volume of issues. You will be aware of what they are. We have identified an approach that would allow us to advance the implementation of a large number of those recommendations subject to being able to bring the report back to the Executive and getting their approval. We have identified where challenges remain. Where challenges remain, there may be issues that present further difficulties through their intractability. However, I am confident that the way forward is to bring the report to the Executive, deal with the issues that we can handle now, separate out the issues where challenges remain and then, absolutely, get that strategic fit with the requirements of NDNA. If we get the right kind of cohesion between FICT and NDNA, that will provide us with an appropriate pathway towards a more pluralist, inclusive and progressive society.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

We have time for a very quick question and answer.

Paula Bradley (DUP, Belfast North)

5. Ms P Bradley asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister when vocal coaches will be permitted to return to face-to-face teaching. (AQO 2285/17-22)

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

A LeasCheann Comhairle, with your permission, Minister Kearney will take this question.

Declan Kearney (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

There is no restriction in the regulations that prevents vocal coaches from undertaking face-to-face teaching provided that they do so in line with the necessary requirements and mitigations, and anyone providing vocal coaching should refer to all the relevant guidance for the sector.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

That ends the period for listed questions. We will now move to 15 minutes of topical questions. Before we do so, I have to announce that question 4 has been withdrawn.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

T1. Dr Aiken asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister whether the deputy First Minister thinks that, with less than 48 hours to go, it is either helpful or respectful to the people of Northern Ireland that the European Union has still to allow the movement of chilled meat products to our country. (AQT 1471/17-22)

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

First, I welcome the fact that Commission vice president Maroš Šefcovic met MLAs today. That was a very good exchange, I believe, over a considerable period of time, and I hope that, during that conversation, there was a balance put on the fact that the protocol is mitigation and is the best effort that we have against the worst excesses of Brexit. Maroš Šefcovic will have an opportunity today to hear from all the other MLAs, and I welcome the fact that a positive response on the extension for chilled meats is expected. That is good, and we should bank that, but we need longer-term solutions, and I hope that we can find those solutions in the period ahead. I also note that there are some other areas of progress. Again, we need sustainability here, and our local industry and business community need the opportunity to plan into the future and to take benefit from our unique access to two markets. Some more-technical discussions are under way, and I am hopeful that we will see positive progress on this recent issue, but I want to see a fulsome response to all the issues. Let us find the resolutions, and let us work on the opportunities.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

I thank the deputy First Minister for her reply. Obviously, she seems to put a lot of weight on what Maroš Šefcovic has been saying, but we have real concerns, particularly about the supply of medicines in Northern Ireland. What degree of risk does she think is acceptable? Indeed, do the Northern Ireland Executive see that there is considerable risk to the supply of medicines?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

First, as the Member knows, there is no collective Executive view on Brexit. There are differing views. Obviously, the DUP has its view, and others have their view. My view is that Brexit is bad all round. From its very inception, it was bad. There is no good to come from it. However, there has been mitigation in the form of the protocol, which gives us some protections and also gives us opportunities. I believe that the EU has shared proposals on resolving the issue of the supply of medicines, the licensing side, medical devices and veterinary medicines, so let us hope that there is a resolution on that issue.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

The Member is not in her place for question 2.

Joanne Bunting (DUP, Belfast East)

T3. Ms Bunting asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister, in light of their response to a question for written answer about the Communities in Transition (CIT) programme, which said that “positive feedback from participants stated that projects being developed in association with CIT are beginning to have a significant positive influence on their surrounding community. The review also includes a number of recommendations which will be considered in the context of Phase 2 planning”, how will the Executive Office measure a tangible difference in relation to transition and how will it ensure a balanced approach across both communities in accordance with their needs. (AQT 1473/17-22)

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

With any programme that we take forward, we need to make sure that there is a balanced approach and that we are supporting everybody regardless of their background. It is really important that, as we roll out any projects, we take on board the learning as we go. There has been a review, so that needs to be taken on board, and I very much welcome that being put into place. You have asked before about different projects under Communities in Transition and the progress that has been made. We are moving to an open procurement process in line with procurement policy around new projects. We have to learn lessons from all these reviews. I am very happy to write to the Member to provide her with more detail on how that will be implemented.

Joanne Bunting (DUP, Belfast East)

What conversations has the Executive Office had with DOJ and DFC on the continuation of the Women Involved in Community Transformation programme beyond the extension period to ensure that there is continuity and that women who are making progress are not just abandoned and left unable to complete courses or to maximise their potential fully?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I agree with the Member. When people have taken the time to engage and take part in programmes, they need to have continuity and want assurances that they will have that. Engagement across Departments happens at official level; there has not been ministerial engagement on it. I am happy to provide that detail to the Member in writing.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

I call Trevor Lunn for a question.

Trevor Lunn (Alliance, Lagan Valley)

I have to apologise, Mr Deputy Speaker.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

You may think quickly, Trevor.

Trevor Lunn (Alliance, Lagan Valley)

I was not aware that my name was down to ask a topical question. I will pass on this occasion.

[Laughter.]

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

Obviously, there is no need for the Minister to respond unless she wants to.

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Thank you for that.

Maolíosa McHugh (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

T6. Mr McHugh asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister, who will know that the majority of people in the North of Ireland opposed Brexit and, in reflecting that position, the Assembly has repeatedly endorsed the protocol as the necessary mechanism to mitigate some of the worst impacts of Brexit, whether they agree that today’s appearance of Maroš Šefcovic at the Committee for the Executive Office was a positive development and that his contribution and comments demonstrate the constructive approach of the EU to mitigating the negative effects of Brexit on the island of Ireland. (AQT 1476/17-22)

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

There is no Executive agreement on Brexit, but the appearance of Maroš Šefcovic at the Committee was a positive development. It is really important that he hears at first hand that the DUP does not speak for the North on Brexit or the protocol. On the EU's part, it shows positive intent that it is prepared to come to the Assembly to listen to our locally elected representatives and hear the reassertion of our continued support for the pragmatic implementation of the protocol and the protection of the Good Friday Agreement. His contribution today demonstrates the constructive approach of the EU to mitigating the negative effects of Brexit on the island of Ireland.

We can never forget that we have the protocol because we have Brexit, which was not our wish and was imposed on us. The protocol is necessary to provide the protections that businesses, farmers, retailers and manufacturers need. Together, we need to put our efforts into ensuring delivery of the protocol, as agreed, maximising the advantage to businesses here of unfettered access to British and EU markets and making sure that we work to iron out the issues that need to be resolved because we have to deal with the consequences of the Brexit that we neither wanted nor voted for.

Maolíosa McHugh (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

Often, we hear that businesses find solutions to problems: they may go over them, round them or under them, but they find solutions. Do you agree that the wholly negative presentation of the protocol by some needs to be challenged, given that many of our businesses are seizing the opportunity that it provides? Those businesses want more focus on the building of special status, which affords the North unique access to the British market and the EU's single market to help to attract investors and create jobs for us in the North of Ireland.

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Some of the narrative around the protocol clearly flies in the face of reality and is directly contradicted by the fact that many businesses are seeing and utilising the advantages with which the protocol provides them. It has provided us with a special and unique status that should be embraced. Of course, there are issues that need to be addressed in a pragmatic fashion and solutions need to be found, but that does not change the fact that the protocol is necessary. It was agreed and it needs to be implemented, and we need to give businesses the certainty and stability that they tell us every day that they crave.

Sean Lynch (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

T7. Mr Lynch asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister whether the joint First Minister will take this opportunity to reiterate her commitment to New Decade, New Approach (NDNA). (AQT 1477/17-22)

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Yes, absolutely. I am fully committed to New Decade, New Approach. That is the basis on which power-sharing was restored in January of last year. All the parties and the two Governments signed up to it, so there is clearly an obligation on all of us to ensure that it is implemented in its entirety. NDNA is a compromise: there are parts that we like and parts that we do not like, but that is how compromise works. It is not up for renegotiation or cherry-picking; it is to be implemented. I take my commitment to NDNA very seriously, and I want all parties to step up in a similar vein to make sure that we all work to make power-sharing work.

Sean Lynch (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I thank the joint First Minister for her answer. As the Minister said, NDNA is the basis on which we re-established these institutions. Does the Minister agree that the DUP's decision to vote against a motion to establish a simultaneous translation service in the Assembly was an act of gross bad faith?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

As I said, the Irish Government, the British Government and all local parties signed up to the New Decade, New Approach political agreement. For a party to vote against one of the key commitments within that agreement does not demonstrate a faithful approach to its implementation. However, bad faith cannot be a blockage to the access of na Gaeilgeoirí, or anyone else, to their rights. We have to find ways around bad faith, as we did with Acht na Gaeilge and the wider language and culture package.

Colm Gildernew (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

T8. Mr Gildernew asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister whether the joint First Minister can provide an update on the important Together: Building a United Community (T:BUC) strategy. (AQT 1478/17-22)

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

We have made significant progress in delivering the Together: Building a United Community strategy. A number of headline actions have been achieved: more than 24,000 young people have taken part in T:BUC camps; five Urban Village areas have been established; four shared education campuses have been approved and are progressing; 10 shared neighbourhoods are providing 483 new homes — that has been completed; over 6,000 young people have participated in the Peace4Youth programme; over 26,000 young people have engaged with the Uniting Communities Through Sport and Creativity programme; and the number of interface barriers has been reduced by 14. Although that represents huge progress, huge societal challenges remain around dealing with sectarianism. Together, we can deal with those challenges. We need to do more, and I am committed to doing more to try to build a truly inclusive and rights-based society that promotes equality, values difference and cherishes diversity.

Colm Gildernew (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Does the joint First Minister agree that the displays and behaviours that we often see at this time of year, such as the proliferation of flags and displays of hatred on bonfires, totally fly in the face of what we are seeking to achieve through T:BUC? Does she agree that people in positions of political leadership and responsibility have a duty to confront that behaviour, rather than encouraging it?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

You are absolutely right that T:BUC commits us to improving community relations and to continuing the journey towards a more united and shared society. The displays of sectarianism, intimidation and intolerance, which we see more of at this time of year, fly in the face of that commitment and should be condemned. The Member is also correct that all political leaders have a responsibility. We have individual responsibility and a collective responsibility. The clear message that must be heard from the Chamber is that we stand together to confront intolerance, intimidation and sectarianism in all its manifestations.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

We have time for one more quick question and answer.

Emma Sheerin (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

T9. Ms Sheerin asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister to confirm that Irish Government Ministers and officials are welcome in the North. (AQT 1479/17-22)

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

The Irish Government are, of course, welcome here, and they will continue to be so. Irish Government Ministers and officials have every right to be here. In fact, they have a responsibility to be here due to their statutory role in the North through the North/South Ministerial Council and as co-guarantors of the Good Friday Agreement and subsequent agreements. They also provide funding to many cross-border and Northern-based projects. Their role in the North is well established, democratically endorsed and valued across the communities.

Emma Sheerin (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I thank the joint First Minister for her answer. Does the Minister agree that it is entirely inappropriate for an organisation that purports to represent illegal criminal gangs to attempt to subvert that work by issuing threats and warnings and by telling people from the Irish Government that they are not welcome in the North?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

The Member is, of course, referring to the recent statement by the Loyalist Communities Council. I will cut right to the chase: that statement was completely unacceptable. As I said, the Irish Government play a very constructive role here. Such organisations should not exist 23 years after the Good Friday Agreement was signed, never mind issuing threats in the media. That statement should be withdrawn, and all the organisations that are behind it should leave the stage once and for all.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

That concludes questions to the Executive Office. I ask Members to take their ease before we move on to the next set of questions.

Oral Answers to Questions — Economy

Cathal Boylan (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

1. Mr Boylan asked the Minister for the Economy how he intends to deliver on his Department's commitments in New Decade, New Approach on workers' rights. (AQO 2294/17-22)

Paul Frew (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for his question. Ensuring that workers have jobs to go back to is my foremost priority as we look to recover from the damage inflicted on our economy by the pandemic. The economic recovery action plan that my Department is delivering will help protect jobs. We must not lose sight of that as being the most fundamental of all employment rights.

I am pleased, however, to reflect on some of the other work that my Department has taken forward to protect workers' rights. Legislation was introduced to ensure that redundancy and other payments for employees were based on normal pay rather than on furloughed pay. Last week, the House approved legislation extending vital health and safety protections to all workers that previously applied only to employees. The Parental Bereavement (Leave and Pay) Bill also recently passed its Second Stage. Members will agree that that will bring in an important new employment right for parents in Northern Ireland who, sadly, suffer the loss of a child.

I am aware of other commitments made in 'New Decade, New Approach' on further employment rights. Faced with the need to respond to the COVID crisis, it has simply not been possible to progress all of them in that time. Northern Ireland already has a robust framework of employment rights in place, however. We will keep that under review in the months ahead.

Cathal Boylan (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Minister for his answer. I ask him to give a commitment to what is in 'New Decade, New Approach' about the protection of those rights.

Will the Minister undertake to meet the further education staff who are on strike over pay and conditions and commit to securing a deal for them?

Paul Frew (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for his question. In my short time in the Department, I have been advised that there is a process to follow for such disputes and for questions of who is the governing body with regard to pay. I give the Member my commitment that I will study that process to see where the Department and I can be helpful. There may be a place for us in it. I would not want to do anything to jeopardise a successful outcome for all involved in the dispute.

Sinéad McLaughlin (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

Will the Minister commit to ensuring that Invest NI will protect the rights of workers when they travel the world to attract investors here? It is important that workers' incomes be supported and that Invest NI do not promote Northern Ireland as a low-paid economy.

Paul Frew (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for her question. It is important. I recognise that the pandemic has had a significant impact on businesses and workers. My Department's priority in respect of employment law has been to protect those immediately affected by the pandemic. To date, my Department has legislated to protect workers' rights by ensuring that statutory family-related payments and various statutory entitlements connected with redundancy or the termination of employment are based on normal pay rather than furlough pay. Legislation has also been introduced to allow workers who are unable to take holiday leave as a result of the COVID-19 outbreak to carry over up to four weeks of their annual leave into the next two leave years. I was also pleased that Members debated and approved legislation to extend an important protection to workers so that they have a right not to suffer detriment in the workplace in relation to actions that they may take to protect themselves or others where they reasonably believe that there is serious or imminent danger. Members will also be aware of the good progress on the Parental Bereavement (Leave and Pay) Bill. Collectively, those actions highlight the importance that my Department places on protecting workers' rights. As we look to the longer term, I wish to ensure that all our employment legislation continues to take account of workers' needs, while balancing the needs of businesses, at this difficult time and beyond.

Invest NI has an important job in promoting Northern Ireland throughout the world. I want it to focus on the competitive prices and costs. I would not use the words "low paid"; I would talk about "competitive pay". Ensuring that people have good, decent jobs to return to after the pandemic is vital to me and my Department.

Rachel Woods (Green, North Down)

The Minister will definitely be aware of the impact of domestic abuse as a societal issue but also as an economic and workplace issue. Does the Minister support the introduction of 10 days of safe leave for victims of domestic abuse?

Paul Frew (DUP, North Antrim)

I know that the Member has a question in the schedule. She is getting in first, in case I do not get that far. I commend the Member for those skills.

The Member will know how important that issue is to me, having worked with the Member on the Justice Committee. I will commit to the Member to looking at that in the days and weeks ahead. It is important to me that workers and victims of domestic violence are protected and that their employers treat them with respect and dignity and allow them the freedom that they should have when they suffer domestic violence. It is a horrendous crime, and it needs to be resolved. I see, throughout society, that employers can and do help at times of stress for victims of domestic violence. I want to see that continuing and being enhanced, so that we can move on as a society, because domestic abuse is a societal ill that needs to be tackled. People need to be made aware of it, not least in the workplace.

George Robinson (DUP, East Londonderry)

2. Mr Robinson asked the Minister for the Economy to outline the support available for new businesses. (AQO 2295/17-22)

Paul Frew (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank my colleague for his important question. A wide range of financial and advisory support is available from Invest NI and other organisations for people who are considering starting a business. The Northern Ireland business start-up programme is part-funded by the 11 councils, Invest NI and the European regional development fund (ERDF) under the investment for growth and jobs Northern Ireland (2014-2020) programme and promoted under the Go For It brand. The programme is delivered by Northern Ireland's 11 councils and is available to all potential new start-up businesses. The programme provides one-to-one support from an experienced business adviser, with help to develop a practical business plan and referrals to follow-on support options.

Invest NI has provided £16·4 million to local businesses through the local economic development measure over the past three years to deliver the scheme. Councils have provided an additional £3·6 million, reaching a total investment of around £20 million. To date, over 12,000 business plans have been completed to support people planning to start their own businesses. That must be welcomed. Invest NI also provides a comprehensive range of information on new business start-ups on its website.

George Robinson (DUP, East Londonderry)

I thank the Minister for his answer. Coming out of the pandemic is creating both distress and opportunity for businesses, and I am eager to see support being given to businesses that need it to survive. Will the Minister come to Limavady to visit an innovative scheme at the North West Regional College to help to establish small businesses?

Paul Frew (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank my colleague for his supplementary question. I have no problem visiting him in Limavady to see the work of the college and other businesses. It is a nice part of the world. I have been there many times, and I have spent a lot of time in Magilligan Point and up Binevenagh. I am sure that the Member will not take me up Binevenagh, but I would be interested to see some of the businesses and the innovative work that businesses and colleges are doing at this time.

I should add that other support mechanisms are available. For example, the Propel Pre-Accelerator programme is funded by Invest NI and delivered by Ignite, a UK-based start-up support and investment network. The programme offers workshops, tutorials, networking opportunities, mentoring, financial support and access to investment. Invest NI also works with other stakeholders in the start-up ecosystem, including councils, universities, further education colleges, incubators, enterprise agencies, tech starts, catalysts and special interest groups, such as Women in Business, to provide support to business start-ups.

The Member coming from where he does, I note that there are issues in his area, an area that is dear to my heart. In 2019, in the Causeway Coast and Glens Borough Council area, there were 390 start-up businesses. That could be improved. In 2017, that figure was 530. There is much work to do, and I assure the Member that I will do my best to enhance his area and all of Northern Ireland. When all of Northern Ireland works best, we all work best.

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

Minister, the head of Invest NI said that there has been significant interest in inward investment as a result of the protocol. There are businesses in my constituency that are creating and sustaining jobs as a result of the protocol. Of course, some businesses face challenges, but many are looking for opportunities to create jobs and prosperity. However, they are concerned that the Minister's political stance will stop his Department offering them the much-needed support that they require to create jobs and prosperity.

Paul Frew (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for his question. My Department and Invest NI are all about support and supporting businesses. They will continue to do that and will have my full support. In visiting businesses, even over the last two weeks, I have seen that, whilst there might be advantages — slight advantages — for some businesses, they are being hampered when they try to buy in stock from GB. Even if they can get any sort of advantage through a twin-track approach or by selling into different markets, the fact that they have to buy stuff from GB penalises them greatly, as does the fact that the paperwork has spiralled out of all control and that they have to employ people just to keep on top of it. That is damaging to their business cases. That is what I experienced when I was out and about visiting businesses over the last two weeks.

Let us be clear: the protocol is damaging and brutal and is being used as punishment and leverage for future negotiations with the UK Government. Northern Ireland is in the middle of that, and some people here are complicit in that. That has really frustrated the businesses that I have spoken to over the last number of weeks.

Pat Catney (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Lagan Valley)

Minister, when you were on the Finance Committee with me, you told me that you started out in a trade. I also did that over 50 years ago. What I am really asking is this: what is your assessment of the quality of entrepreneurial training for people who start their own businesses here? Those people are the risk-takers and potential employers of the future. Small acorns grow into big trees.

Paul Frew (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for his question. He is a man after my own heart. I enjoyed my time with him on the Finance Committee, and I will miss that aspect of my work. He is right. There are supports for start-up businesses, even during these challenging times.

It is important to state that restrictions hurt new start-ups. They damage confidence in the people taking that step to open up a new business because they do not know whether there is a market there for them, whether they will be placed under restrictions by government or whether they have a footfall to spend or trade in. It is very important that confidence is injected into all sectors of our economy, and I will work towards opening up the economy in its completeness over the next couple of weeks.

Invest NI start-up financial support is focused on businesses that intend to sell outside Northern Ireland. Such businesses can also access support for product development, skills development, market development, strategy development and consultancy, as well as support for job creation. High-potential start-ups may also apply to five equity and debt funds as part of Invest NI's access to finance portfolio. That comprises the Northern Ireland small business loan fund, which has support totalling £8 million; the growth loan fund, which has £30 million; the growth finance fund, which has £30 million; and Techstart NI, which has £30 million. There is also Co-Fund NI, which has £70 million. Those are the support branches and support schemes that will help start-up businesses in the weeks ahead.

Stewart Dickson (Alliance, East Antrim)

Minister, do you recognise the damage that Brexit is doing, given that there are labour shortages as people are not coming into the United Kingdom, but particularly into Northern Ireland, because entry to the United Kingdom now has a pay tariff connected to it? Traditionally in Northern Ireland, for a variety of reasons, good and bad, pay has quite often been lower than in the rest of the United Kingdom. That is a further barrier to people coming in and supporting the labour market in important jobs, such as caring, catering and a wide range of other jobs that can, and should, be done in Northern Ireland and for which we do not have an indigenous workforce.

Paul Frew (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for his question. Many aspects and factors affect the flow of people and workers throughout the world. One of them is exchange rates. In my experience over the last number of weeks, where there are skill shortages and people are trying to find workers and staff, I have found that Brexit is not necessarily the main issue. The main issue is skill shortages and people who are on furlough and who then get different jobs. If there are people who have left these shores, it seems that was to do with exchange rates, rather than Brexit.

Kellie Armstrong (Alliance, Strangford)

3. Ms Armstrong asked the Minister for the Economy what discussions he has had with the Executive Office for financial assistance to help travel agents due to ongoing travel restrictions, in addition to the Executive Office's Travel Agents (Coronavirus) Financial Assistance Scheme 2021. (AQO 2296/17-22)

Paul Frew (DUP, North Antrim)

I understand the difficulties that travel agents continue to face in light of the ongoing travel restrictions. However, support for the sector is being taken forward by the Executive Office. In March, TEO introduced the Travel Agents (Coronavirus) Financial Assistance Scheme 2021, which provided a grant payment of £10,000 to travel agent businesses operating from commercial premises or a £3,500 payment to self-employed travel agents working from home.

As well as availing themselves of the Executive Office Travel Agents (Coronavirus) Financial Assistance Scheme 2021, I am aware that some travel agents, subject to the respective criteria, have been able to avail themselves of business support grant schemes introduced by my Department, such as the £10,000 small business support scheme; the £25,000 retail, hospitality, tourism and leisure scheme; the micro-business hardship fund; and, more recently, part B of the COVID restrictions business support scheme.

Despite the unprecedented level of financial support that has and is being offered, the Department appreciates that there are some businesses and individuals who continue to be severely negatively impacted, with travel agents being one of them. However, it will be for the Executive collectively to determine how any COVID-related funding is allocated as we progress through the road map and lifting restrictions, which, in my eyes, is the most important thing. We must make sure that we can have confidence injected into the market for travel agents.

Kellie Armstrong (Alliance, Strangford)

Does the Minister agree that travel agents are key high street businesses and are vital in supporting our air routes and airports in particular? Therefore, if there is further money coming forward, will he seek to bring forward a further support package through his Department, as opposed to it coming through the Executive Office, in order to target travel agents in particular, because they are so important to our air industry?

Paul Frew (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for her supplementary question. Since March 2020, the Northern Ireland Executive and the UK Government have introduced an unprecedented number of interventions and packages of financial support to help those who have been affected by the consequences of COVID-19. My Department has led in the delivery of business-related support, providing over £513 million of much-needed funds to support local businesses from all sectors and occupations throughout Northern Ireland, with the primary aim of helping those businesses to survive the pandemic and protect as many local jobs as possible.

Despite the unprecedented level of support that has been offered, some businesses and individuals continue to be negatively impacted. The Department and, indeed, the Northern Ireland Executive continue to receive calls for further support packages to be put in place. The Department's focus is on the full and uninterrupted reopening of the Northern Ireland economy in line with the Executive's road map and the associated health regulations. It will be vital to instil confidence into our travel industry in the weeks ahead. I am not sure that the traffic-light scheme actually does that. I think that decisions being made like a guillotine will sap confidence, and that is not a place where we want to be.

To add to that answer, I inform the House that the Northern Ireland domestic aviation kickstart scheme (NIDAKS) has now launched. Our domestic and international air connectivity is critical both for the local tourism sector and for the wider economy, especially as we emerge from the COVID-19 crisis. NIDAKS is a support scheme for airlines that is being developed by the Department and is aimed at maintaining and enhancing Northern Ireland's air connectivity with the rest of the United Kingdom following the COVID pandemic.

Caoimhe Archibald (Sinn Féin, East Londonderry)

Following on from the previous question, for some businesses, direct financial assistance will be important to allow them to continue to be there to recover. So, as part of the recovery plan, is the Minister looking at support for sectors, such as a the travel and tourism sector, that have been most badly hit? They were the first to close and will probably be the last to open. This morning, I met the English language schools with the Finance Minister, and I really encourage the Economy Minister to meet that sector. That is one sector that has been badly hit by the pandemic and has not had a great deal of assistance.

Paul Frew (DUP, North Antrim)

The Member raises a very important issue. It is widely accepted that the coronavirus job retention scheme and the self-employment income support scheme, which are both currently scheduled to end in September of this year, have been instrumental in avoiding mass unemployment. It is clear that both the furlough and the self-employed schemes are essential and must remain in place as we move into a sustainable economic recovery. I will be seeking to engage with the UK Government on how these schemes can be maintained to protect industries that are still impacted by restrictions. I hope that that will enhance and go alongside any work that my Department can do, with regard to its recovery plan going forward, to support businesses and to support jobs. I think that we could well be in for a critical couple of months as we come in to the winter months, and it is important that all restrictions that can be lifted are lifted to ensure that markets can activate and work as they should without any government interference. I think that that is important, and I will certainly be pushing for that support for our industries so that they will be allowed to get on with their business safely and productively and so that we will, hopefully, get the economy back up and running sooner rather than later.

Peter Weir (DUP, Strangford)

As Members have indicated, this has been a critically difficult time for industries across the board in their response to COVID, particularly the travel industry. Obviously, I welcomed the Minister's announcement on Thursday that he was launching NIDAKS, and I note that there has been a very warm welcome to that from our three airports. Can the Minister give the House some more detail on that scheme and how it will be helpful to the travel industry and to airports in particular as we move ahead?

Paul Frew (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for his question. It is critical that we get this good news story out there, to be fair. NIDAKS aims to support inbound tourism and business travel between Northern Ireland and Great Britain and to encourage inward investment into the local economy. These are essential for Northern Ireland's recovery. We have engaged with our three local airports and the airlines in the development of NIDAKS, and the Department has launched it to deliver on our commitments to support Northern Ireland’s domestic air connectivity with GB as soon as the required approvals are secured. I have spoken to the airports, and I know that they are very thankful for that, as are the airlines involved. It is £4·5 million of support through ministerial direction, and it is vital that we maintain those links to GB not only for tourism but for commuter travel, especially when it comes to visiting family and friends throughout this country. It was very important that the scheme was rolled out as soon as possible. It started at the beginning of June. We had to instil confidence as soon as we could, which is why we had to go down the ministerial direction route.