Digital Markets, Competition and Consumers Bill
Public Bill Committee, 15 June 2023.
Examination of Witness
Philip Hollobone (Conservative, Kettering)
Good morning. We are sitting in public and the proceedings are being broadcast. We have Mr Ross with us; thank you for your kind attendance. Will you introduce yourself to the Committee for the record, please?
Philip Hollobone (Conservative, Kettering)
Welcome. I call Alex Davies-Jones.
Alex Davies-Jones (Labour, Pontypridd)
Good morning. Thank you, Neil, for being here this morning. You at techUK are in a unique position, representing everyone who should be impacted by this legislation. Will you outline exactly what impact the Bill will have on the breadth of the tech industry from smaller firms to the big challenger firmsQ 108?
Alex Davies-Jones (Labour, Pontypridd)
Q How will the Bill ensure that the smaller businesses and start-ups are not unfairly disadvantaged by the existing, big, dominant market players?
Alex Davies-Jones (Labour, Pontypridd)
Q Thank you—you actually outlined my final question, which was on that point. One of the things we have heard as legislators looking at the Bill is about those risks around confidentiality and how some of the smaller firms have wanted to submit evidence, but have felt unable to do so, due to commercial sensitivities, for example. Will you outline that a bit further? How does the Bill need to ensure that safeguarding is in place to protect those smaller firms with commercial sensitivities so that they are not disproportionately disadvantaged?
Kevin Hollinrake (Conservative, Thirsk and Malton)
Q I think I am right in saying that you said in your opening remarks that you may have concerns about the appeal standard. If we move to a full merits system, what is to stop huge tech giants, with almost endless resources, being able to tie up any actions that the DMU takes in the courts for a long time and, in doing so, providing a big deterrent to the DMU taking action in the first place?
Kevin Hollinrake (Conservative, Thirsk and Malton)
Q But you do accept that there is a risk of a greater deterrent to the DMU being able to take action against these big companies.
Kevin Hollinrake (Conservative, Thirsk and Malton)
Q Thank you for the brevity of your answer. The other thing that we have heard from some of the people likely to be affected by SMS status is about the impact on innovation, for example. It has been said to us that they feel that they would have to go to the DMU or the Competition and Markets Authority for permission to innovate. Is that something you recognise from reading the Bill?
Kevin Hollinrake (Conservative, Thirsk and Malton)
Q Sure, but the criterion that it can intervene really only where there is entrenched market power should be a protection against those worries about innovation.
Kevin Hollinrake (Conservative, Thirsk and Malton)
Thank you for your answers.
Philip Hollobone (Conservative, Kettering)
Mr Ross, we will now have a quickfire round, because we have you for only another five minutes and there are three Members seeking to ask questions. It will be one question each and one answer each.
Jerome Mayhew (Conservative, Broadland)
I want to pick up on what you said about your concerns about the JR approach to appeals and whether it should be full merits. Then you said, “Well, we could do full merits, but within a six-month period.” How could you possibly do thatQ ?
Jerome Mayhew (Conservative, Broadland)
Q Okay, but the bit that I am really interested in is how you could contain an appeals process within six months if you were going to look, even in any element, at the merits.
Jerome Mayhew (Conservative, Broadland)
Q But you do recognise that speed is of the essence in a fast-moving market.
Jerome Mayhew (Conservative, Broadland)
So if you could not limit it to six months, that would be self-defeating in its own right in many cases.Q
Andy Carter (Conservative, Warrington South)
This follows on from that question. Do you think the Bill is designed with sufficient flexibility for the CMA and the digital markets unit to respond to the changing nature Q of the sector? Five years ago some of the things we have today just did not exist. What is your view on that?
Andy Carter (Conservative, Warrington South)
Q Do you think five years is the right length? Should it be a shorter period?
Vicky Ford (Conservative, Chelmsford)
You have mentionedQ a few times the importance of accountability to Parliament. I guess that needs transparency so you can get scrutiny. Do you think there is adequate accountability and scrutiny in this Parliament? How does it compare with other Parliaments?
Vicky Ford (Conservative, Chelmsford)
Q Have you looked at how other Parliaments scrutinise their regulators in this space? Is there best practice that we should be looking at? I recall my time in Europe, when we had much bigger Committees that held regulators to account, often much more regularly and with bigger Committees.
Vicky Ford (Conservative, Chelmsford)
Q But you have not given your thoughts as an industry as to how we could approve it?
Vicky Ford (Conservative, Chelmsford)
Q I am not asking that. I am asking whether your members have experience of other places where they think it works better or worse.
Philip Hollobone (Conservative, Kettering)
Mr Ross, you have been a complete star. Thank you very much indeed for your time.
Examination of Witnesses
Philip Hollobone (Conservative, Kettering)
We move on to the next panel. Gene Burrus is coming in by Zoom. Tom Smith is in the room with us. Mr Burrus, please introduce yourself to the Committee briefly.
Philip Hollobone (Conservative, Kettering)
You sound dangerously overqualified. Mr Smith.
Philip Hollobone (Conservative, Kettering)
Thank you, gentlemen. Welcome to the Committee. I call Alex Davies-Jones.
Alex Davies-Jones (Labour, Pontypridd)
Q Thank you, Mr Hollobone, and thank you to both our witnesses. Mr Burrus, can I come to you first, please? We have heard a lot in the evidence already submitted to the Committee about the 30% effective stealth tax that is put on apps that would like to use certain designated platforms. How will this Bill ensure that fairer digital markets, especially for smaller tech firms and apps, and innovation are enabled?
Alex Davies-Jones (Labour, Pontypridd)
Q You mentioned, Mr Burrus, the need for the provisions to be properly enforced. I would like to bring you in here, Mr Smith. Can you outline how exactly you would like to see that happening? Does the Bill get that right?
Alex Davies-Jones (Labour, Pontypridd)
Q One of the points of concern that has been raised with the Committee is that the bigger, dominant firms have the ability to tie up firms in legal wranglings for a considerable amount of time, leading to a significant cost to smaller firms, some of whom are unable to meet them; it ties them up so long that they are unable to carry on. Do you see that as a concern with the current drafting of the Bill?
Alex Davies-Jones (Labour, Pontypridd)
Q Mr Burrus, one final question for you. One of the arguments that has been put to us is that costs to consumers might increase, as a result of the costs for apps on platforms having to be reduced. Do you see that argument? What do you have to say to that?
Alex Davies-Jones (Labour, Pontypridd)
Brilliant, thank you.
Kevin Hollinrake (Conservative, Thirsk and Malton)
Q Mr Burrus, some concerns have been raised with us that the subscription traps requirements in the Bill might be too onerous for some people who work on a subscription basis to comply with. Do you think those are valid concerns?
Kevin Hollinrake (Conservative, Thirsk and Malton)
Q Thank you. On the innovation point, do you see anything in the Bill that would inhibit companies designated as SMS or make them think twice about innovating in any particular space?
Kevin Hollinrake (Conservative, Thirsk and Malton)
Q Sure. That is very useful, thank you. Mr Smith, I do not need to ask you any questions. I think you were very clear on the appeal standard; I was very comfortable with your answer.
Kevin Hollinrake (Conservative, Thirsk and Malton)
Very useful. Thank you.
Andy Carter (Conservative, Warrington South)
Q Mr Burrus, could I just put to you something that I suspect some of the platforms might say? They have spent billions and billions and billions developing their platforms. Is it not reasonable that they make charges for app users to access those platforms? What they are doing is just recouping their costs, so making a reasonable profit from your members who get access to these fantastic platforms.
Andy Carter (Conservative, Warrington South)
Q Thank you very much. I just want to pick up on one of the points that you make in your written submission to us, where you talk about a timeline for imposing an initial set of conduct requirements. I think you talk about a relatively short period—a three-month period. Would you just like to expand on that, because I think that is quite an interesting proposal?
Andy Carter (Conservative, Warrington South)
Q Thank you. I have one question for you, Mr Smith, if I may. We are taking action to legislate; the EU has taken action to legislate. Many other countries are not yet in that place. Are we not just going to drive innovation outside of the UK?
Vicky Ford (Conservative, Chelmsford)
Q Can you give us an example of the rent inflation you mentioned? For the app, how much would they have been paying five years ago and what are they being charged now, just to contextualise this?
Vicky Ford (Conservative, Chelmsford)
Q How quickly have we gone from zero to 30%?
Jerome Mayhew (Conservative, Broadland)
Q You are buying a service to reach the same number of eyeballs. The process does not have greater reach. You said that, to achieve the same outcome as a facilitating business, they charge 30% to 40% more. Why doesn’t everyone use Bing?
Kevin Hollinrake (Conservative, Thirsk and Malton)
Q We have put subscription traps in the Bill. I will ask the same question I asked Mr Burrus earlier: do you see anything in the legislation that would make it difficult for companies that currently operate on a subscription basis to comply with what we have set out?
Kevin Hollinrake (Conservative, Thirsk and Malton)
Q On the innovation point, there are concerns that if you are designated SMS you will have to go to the CMA or DMU to seek permission to enter a new marketplace or bring forward a new product. Is that something you see anywhere in the legislation?
Kevin Hollinrake (Conservative, Thirsk and Malton)
Thank you.
Rushanara Ali (Labour, Bethnal Green and Bow)
I thank our witnesses for their evidence. If there are no further questions, we will move on to the next panel.
Rushanara Ali (Labour, Bethnal Green and Bow)
We will now hear oral evidence from Tom Fish, head of public policy and research at Gener8; Richard Stables, CEO of Kelkoo; and Mark Buse, senior vice president for global government relations and policy at the Match Group. Will you introduce yourselves for the record, please?
Rushanara Ali (Labour, Bethnal Green and Bow)
Thank you. We have until 1 pm for this session. I call Alex Davies-Jones.
Alex Davies-Jones (Labour, Pontypridd)
Q Thank you, gentlemen, for joining us this morning. Are you able to explain to us exactly how consumers are harmed by the behaviour of big tech in your industry and how that has hindered and harmed you?
Alex Davies-Jones (Labour, Pontypridd)
Q Thank you, Richard. As someone representing your company, which has been directly impacted by the practices that the Bill is seeking to protect against, do you see any omissions from the Bill? Had the Bill been around when you were going through your legal processes, would it have been able to save you from this heartache and pain?
Alex Davies-Jones (Labour, Pontypridd)
Q Just to push you on omissions, do you think there is anything missing from the Bill that would have helped you, or is it great and perfect?
Alex Davies-Jones (Labour, Pontypridd)
Q I have a question to you, Mark, from Match Group. A lot of your products and offerings were traditionally on desktop providers, rather than apps. How can we ensure that the Bill is adequately future-proofed to ensure that that does not happen and it will not hinder businesses like yours?
Paul Scully (Conservative, Sutton and Cheam)
Q Thank you for those really powerful testimonies. Before I come to Tom, could I ask you, Mark, to elaborate on the online safety that you just talked about?
Paul Scully (Conservative, Sutton and Cheam)
Q Thank you for that. These two panels are getting right to the heart of the Bill. Obviously, Kelkoo had financial damage that held it under water some time ago. Match is obviously a successful company. You started to talk about data. Tom, this comes to you and Gener8. I have spoken to all three of you over the past few months and heard your stories. Gener8 is a relatively new company going great guns, and data is at the heart of your business plan. Could you tell us your story and where the risks are to Gener8?
Paul Scully (Conservative, Sutton and Cheam)
Q Obviously, the risk of harm is predominately due to what your business is. Could you say a bit about Gener8 to bring it to life for people who have not heard of it and about what you are trying to do on freeing up people’s data?
Paul Scully (Conservative, Sutton and Cheam)
Q It is essentially the premise that if something is free, it is because you are giving away your data. You are actually saying either you can go private, or you can actually be rewarded and paid for the data that those companies you are giving the data to would otherwise be commercialising themselves.
Paul Scully (Conservative, Sutton and Cheam)
Q Finally, when the founder, Sam, founded it, he was working for Red Bull. When he first pitched and created the business, it was because of what he was seeing coming back about the value of data.
Paul Scully (Conservative, Sutton and Cheam)
Q So when we are looking at that commercial strata, individual consumers will ultimately be harmed if we do not act.
Anna Firth (Conservative, Southend West)
Q One of my questions has already been asked. You have given us a very powerful case around the benefits of this Bill. You have highlighted lower prices, charity donations and increased online safety. Are there any other benefits for my consumers in Southend-on-Sea that you could highlight? Also, what about the unintended consequences of the Bill? Are there any issues—Pooh bear traps—that we should be aware of and considering at this point?
Anna Firth (Conservative, Southend West)
Q Thank you. You did not actually answer my second question at all, which was whether you can foresee any unintended consequences. If you think it is perfect, that is fine, but otherwise it would be useful to have something on the record.
Anna Firth (Conservative, Southend West)
Thank you.
Mary Foy (Labour, City of Durham)
Q Thank you—I think that that evidence has been very useful to me as a parliamentarian. Richard, you raised some of the warning signs and some of the tactics that the big companies—Apple and Google—may use with us later on. To what extent do you think that the likes of Google and Apple lobby parliamentarians to maintain the status quo?
Mary Foy (Labour, City of Durham)
Q Tom, do you want to add anything?
Kevin Hollinrake (Conservative, Thirsk and Malton)
Q Mr Buse, I think you will be pleased to know that everybody in the Committee has now moved their subscription for Tinder from the app store to the website to get cheaper subscriptions, so thank you for that—[Laughter.]
You are a very successful company. You own plenty of brands—Plenty Of Fish, as well as Tinder and the like. What do you make of the argument that, actually, far from inhibiting investment, these companies have encouraged investment by giving you a platform that can access lots of customers around the world?
Kevin Hollinrake (Conservative, Thirsk and Malton)
Q Would you say that the situation has hampered your willingness to invest and the growth of your company?
Rushanara Ali (Labour, Bethnal Green and Bow)
Minister Scully, do you want to come in on any of the points that have been made?
Paul Scully (Conservative, Sutton and Cheam)
Q There was a brief point that someone raised—I think it was you, Tom, when you talked about the fact that you guys have put your heads above the parapet and come in front of us. Can you talk to us about why some other companies that you have spoken to would not want to put their heads above the parapet, and so it is you guys at the forefront?
Paul Scully (Conservative, Sutton and Cheam)
Q Because of the ongoing relationship with those companies.
Seema Malhotra (Labour/Co-operative, Feltham and Heston)
Briefly, you were saying that the app subscriptions that you might have will be through Apple, so the Q relationship is between the customer and Apple. We will look at the issue of subscription traps as the Bill progresses. Will the renewal relationship be between you and the customer or Apple and the customer? How will that end up working?
Andy Carter (Conservative, Warrington South)
Q May I pick up on the point that you made about Match payments and Uber payments? I was not sure why there is a difference. Why is Uber treated differently from Match?
Andy Carter (Conservative, Warrington South)
That is really helpful.
Rushanara Ali (Labour, Bethnal Green and Bow)
I am afraid that we need to wind up. Mr Carter, very briefly.
Andy Carter (Conservative, Warrington South)
Q Just a quick question to Tom. In your written submission, you commented on the scope of the Bill. Are you confident that it is broad enough, and future-facing enough, to cover things that we do not yet know about?
Rushanara Ali (Labour, Bethnal Green and Bow)
Thank you. I am sorry that we have run out of time. On behalf of the Committee, I thank our witnesses.
Rushanara Ali (Labour, Bethnal Green and Bow)
Q 161 Good afternoon. We will now hear oral evidence, for the 13th panel, from Kelli Fairbrother, co-founder and CEO of xigxag, and Christian Owens, founder and executive chairman of Paddle. We will have until 2.30 pm. Could the witnesses please introduce themselves for the record?
Seema Malhotra (Labour/Co-operative, Feltham and Heston)
Thank you very much for coming to give evidence to us this afternoon. If you could say a few words about your businesses—what they actually do and what your services actually are—when answering, that would be helpful.Q
I know that both of your businesses are players in the digital market sector. It would be useful to understand, with some illustrative examples, how the current market dominance of a few large tech companies affects how you do your business, and how it has perhaps affected how you have been able to innovate and the costs of innovation. Perhaps we can hear from Ms Fairbrother first?
Seema Malhotra (Labour/Co-operative, Feltham and Heston)
Q “At least a month”? How long could that take?
Seema Malhotra (Labour/Co-operative, Feltham and Heston)
Q Sorry, could I ask a question on this? You are given 90 price points by Apple and you have to choose them. Then Apple effectively does the marketing. If they say what it is, you cannot say anything extra about the products.
Seema Malhotra (Labour/Co-operative, Feltham and Heston)
I will have to move on.
Paul Scully (Conservative, Sutton and Cheam)
Q I just have just a couple of follow-up questions, because I think I got most of what I need from that. On the merchandise area, you say you cannot get out the receipts. Presumably, you have another mechanism, because you have got to ascribe some of it to the authors, or do you author all the books yourself? How do you process who has bought what on that side of things, rather than the back office bit?
Paul Scully (Conservative, Sutton and Cheam)
Q I know you saw the other panel. You have come out and put your head above the parapet, as it were, whereas a lot of companies would not. Why is that? How is your relationship with the app stores? You have a wider relationship with the app stores—do you see the positive side as well?
Paul Scully (Conservative, Sutton and Cheam)
Q Briefly, Christian, you talk about Apple or Google having a different, better system that you could then access. What do you think you would need to do to have the assurance that that system was safe and secure for what you are offering?
Paul Scully (Conservative, Sutton and Cheam)
Q So you would be okay if they set standards for you to reach to have access?
Paul Scully (Conservative, Sutton and Cheam)
Q One final question: do you think the Bill, as is, gives you the speed and depth of remediation that you need to level that playing field?
Rushanara Ali (Labour, Bethnal Green and Bow)
Minister Hollinrake?
Kevin Hollinrake (Conservative, Thirsk and Malton)
I have no further questions.
Vicky Ford (Conservative, Chelmsford)
Do you see Google and Apple acting in collusion and taking similar moves, or are they different moves? Do you see examples where they are putting similar blocks against businessesQ ?
Vicky Ford (Conservative, Chelmsford)
Q Christian, do you see them acting—do you think they are in collusion?
Vicky Ford (Conservative, Chelmsford)
Q You have been very brave, Kelli, in coming and talking about your experiences, because there will be some companies that say, “I don’t dare say that, because these guys have got so much power over me.” There are other issues where women sometimes do not speak out when they say that people have got power over them, so you are obviously being very brave. Do you think there is enough protection for people’s confidentiality in this Bill that others will feel that they can talk about what is happening?
Vicky Ford (Conservative, Chelmsford)
Q Christian, do you have any further—?
Seema Malhotra (Labour/Co-operative, Feltham and Heston)
Q On a slightly different area, there were some concerns raised by some Members in the debate on the Bill about the Government changing the appeals process to one based on judicial review, as opposed to a merits-based review. How important, in your view, is that, and what would you want to see if the Bill progresses through Parliament?
Andy Carter (Conservative, Warrington South)
I have just downloaded your appQ , so you have got another customer there.
Vicky Ford (Conservative, Chelmsford)
He is such a charmer.
Andy Carter (Conservative, Warrington South)
I was interested in what you said about the cost of transactions. You suggested 3%. Where does that figure come from?
Andy Carter (Conservative, Warrington South)
Q Christian, do you want to add to that? You are in that space. Is 3% or 4% the sort of—
Andy Carter (Conservative, Warrington South)
Q Sorry to flip between you, but Kelli, are your prices higher as a result of what you are having to pay? If there is freedom to choose who processes, will we see prices come down?
Andy Carter (Conservative, Warrington South)
Q This will be the final question from me. If we look at the Bill overall, is there anything that it does not tackle that you think it should?
Paul Scully (Conservative, Sutton and Cheam)
Q This is a question that I forgot to ask Kelli earlier about payment. You said something about Apple paying you over a period of time. Is it not automated? Is there any reason why it cannot be? Late payments are always an issue for small businesses. You were talking about Stripe, which pays on a regular basis. Is this not on a regular basis as well?
Rushanara Ali (Labour, Bethnal Green and Bow)
I thank our witnesses for giving evidence today. We will move on to the next panel. Thank you very much.
Examination of Witness
Rushanara Ali (Labour, Bethnal Green and Bow)
Thank you very much for coming, and welcome. We will now hear oral evidence from Tom Morrison-Bell, Government affairs and public policy manager at Google. We have until 2.45 pm. Could the witness please introduce himself for the record?
Seema Malhotra (Labour/Co-operative, Feltham and Heston)
Q Thank you very much for coming to give evidence today. A 2019 Competition and Markets Authority report found that Google enjoyed over a 90% share in the search advertising market in the UK. Would you accept the argument that such a significant market share is to all intents and purposes a monopoly that hinders growth and innovation?
Seema Malhotra (Labour/Co-operative, Feltham and Heston)
Q I want to understand whether you accept that there is a problem with the effective monopoly. In terms of growth and innovation in the sector, I am keen to understand whether you have a view about some of the evidence, which you may have heard, that constraints are effectively a hindrance to innovation. One example, which we have just heard, is about the ways in which other payment systems are prohibited and about the costs associated with having apps in Google. Are some of those behaviours, and the way in which Google is interacting, inhibiting innovation and costing the consumer more in turn?
Seema Malhotra (Labour/Co-operative, Feltham and Heston)
Q I accept and recognise the innovation that Google brings. The Bill is addressing specific issues around market power and the dominance of big tech. Perhaps you could give us your more general views about the Bill and what your concerns are.
Seema Malhotra (Labour/Co-operative, Feltham and Heston)
Q I will finish with this question, because I am conscious that colleagues want to come in. In terms of the participative approach, I have cited before the CMA’s dialogue with Google over the Privacy Sandbox policy and their reaching an agreement on how to move forward. I cite that as an example of how the participative process has worked.
I want to come back to a specific point. You have talked about consumer benefit, and I think we all see the consumer benefit that can and does come from the innovation of Google. However, given your dominance and market power, do you accept that the way in which Google works with other companies is actually contributing to consumer harm as well?
Seema Malhotra (Labour/Co-operative, Feltham and Heston)
Q So you do not accept any of the examples we have heard of consumer harm.
Paul Scully (Conservative, Sutton and Cheam)
Q Tom, it is good to see you. Thank you very much for coming in front of us. We have had some quite punchy evidence sessions before this, so it is important that we get a balanced view. Obviously you are not here to speak for all of big tech and everything that has been going on. Let me give you a minute or two to give the other side of the argument about how you are benefiting, as you see it, the kinds of companies represented in the previous session and in the session before that.
Paul Scully (Conservative, Sutton and Cheam)
Q I know that you are broadly supportive of the Bill, although there are areas that you disagree with. Could you address the comments in our previous evidence sessions that were aimed specifically at Google? Until the Bill is passed, what can you do in the meantime to start addressing some of those issues?
Paul Scully (Conservative, Sutton and Cheam)
Q I have a final question on appeals. You talked about full merits. I understand the need to get the balance right in being fair to both sides, but how do you answer the charge? My biggest fear about the consistent level of JR is whether it is just used to kick things down the road, before starting on full merits, as we heard on Tuesday about the significant element of competition law from a competition expert. Basically, it would be used to outspend and outbox opponents.
Kevin Hollinrake (Conservative, Thirsk and Malton)
Q No doubt you are right that there are consumer and business benefits from what Google does, so thank you for the investment you made to ensure that that is the case. We will always intervene—or we should intervene—where there is market failure. We believe that there is market failure in certain areas here, so this is in that context.
On innovation, we are keen that you continue your R&D spend and innovate. Is there anything in the Bill that will make you think twice about innovation? We asked other witnesses and they cannot see any issue, but some concerns have been raised with us. Do you feel that you might have to talk to the regulator or CMA before you develop a new product? Is that a rational concern that you have?
Kevin Hollinrake (Conservative, Thirsk and Malton)
Q I think the question I am trying to ask is: you are not honestly saying that you are going to stop innovating because of this Bill, if becomes an Act?
Anna Firth (Conservative, Southend West)
I am sure we all agree that we want to put consumers at the heart of the regime. I want to put to you the very specific and powerful example that we have heard this afternoon, which I do not think you have really answered, from a British start-up in Cornwall selling electronic books. If it does it on an app, it will have to pay up to 30% in payment processing charges, and the payments can be delayed by as much as two months. If it does it with a web-based approach, where there is competition for payment processing—it uses Stripe, for example—it will pay 3% to 4% in processing charges and receive those payments within seven days. How can it possibly be in the best interests of my residents and businesses in Southend-on-Sea not to address that huge distortion in the market, with a huge monopoly and another system where there is more free competitionQ ?
Anna Firth (Conservative, Southend West)
Q But why do you prohibit other payment providers from operating?
Anna Firth (Conservative, Southend West)
Q So you agree that it needs reform.
Vicky Ford (Conservative, Chelmsford)
Q If you are so keen at Google to work with the CMA and other competition authorities to get issues resolved quickly, why did Kelkoo tell us this morning that its issue is unresolved and has been going on since 2009, and why did the EU Commission need to make the announcement today about the investigation into ad tech procedures that it started two years ago, minus a handful of days? It seems to me that Google does not actually get these differences resolved in anything like a timely way.
Vicky Ford (Conservative, Chelmsford)
Q So it is six years of appeals.
Vicky Ford (Conservative, Chelmsford)
Q What about this latest one, on ad tech, which has been going on for two years?
Vicky Ford (Conservative, Chelmsford)
Q But I thought that you were trying to say to us that, where there was an issue, you would work to get that resolved really quickly with the competition authorities.
Rushanara Ali (Labour, Bethnal Green and Bow)
Order. I am afraid that that brings us to the end of the time allocated for this session. On behalf of the Committee, may I thank our witness for giving evidence today?