Children, Schools and Families Bill
Public Bill Committee, 21 January 2010.
Sir David Amess (Conservative, Southend West)
Good morning, everyone. I remind colleaguesyou probably do not need remindingthat this sitting finishes at 10.25 am; it is relatively short.
I welcome our witnesses. I am not sure whether all of you have given evidence before to a Committee such as this, but it is pretty straightforward. We have asked you here this morning so that colleagues can gather evidence, which will be helpful when the Committee stage of our proceedings starts next week. As I have said to other witnesses, relax and enjoy the experience. Will you kindly introduce yourselves, and perhaps make a brief comment on the Bill? May we start with Sir Jim Rose?
Sir David Amess (Conservative, Southend West)
Thank you.
Nick Gibb (Conservative, Bognor Regis and Littlehampton)
But you said initially that you were not sure that it was anything different from what we have now.
Nick Gibb (Conservative, Bognor Regis and Littlehampton)
Well, let us pick up literacy and your comment about prescription. You say in your report that the criticism was that the existing curriculum had so much prescribed content. I have here the programme of study for the English subject or area of learning, as you call it. It has 84 objectives. Why do we need so much prescription for our professional teachers in this country? Why do we need objectives? Why do we need 84 objectives? Why do we need objectives like M15
to recognise how authors of moving image and multimodal texts use different combinations of words, images and sounds to create effects and make meaning?
What does that mean, and why do we have to have so much prescription for our professional teachers?
Nick Gibb (Conservative, Bognor Regis and Littlehampton)
I am not sure that is true.
Nick Gibb (Conservative, Bognor Regis and Littlehampton)
Is that not your job as a head teacher, to guide them?
David Laws (Liberal Democrat, Yeovil)
To downscale, then.
David Laws (Liberal Democrat, Yeovil)
That is really useful. I must move on to John, otherwise the Chairman will cut us off I suspect.
Sir David Amess (Conservative, Southend West)
Just before you answer, I wish to say to everyone that we have now used up more than half our time. All colleagues want to ask our witnesses questions. Our witnesses are very passionate, but I am just a little worried that we will have disappointed colleagues unless we shorten the answers and the questions.
Ann Cryer (Labour, Keighley)
No.
Ann Cryer (Labour, Keighley)
I am afraid so, yes. Does no one else want to talk to me about that?
Caroline Flint (Labour, Don Valley)
But John
Sir David Amess (Conservative, Southend West)
Sadly, to be fair, we have got hardly 25 minutes left, and I just will not be able to call everyone.
Graham Stuart (Conservative, Beverley and Holderness)
They always do so, but they do not put it into the law. Every Secretary of State has said that, but none of them has followed it.
Graham Stuart (Conservative, Beverley and Holderness)
Is that a yes? You suggest that Ministers should amend the Bill.
Graham Stuart (Conservative, Beverley and Holderness)
Is that three yess?
Sir David Amess (Conservative, Southend West)
May I just intervene for a moment? The Minister was putting the questions, and we must keep good order. You have had one response, Minister.
Vernon Coaker (Labour, Gedling)
I think that Sue was in the middle of giving a response, to which I was listening.
Sir David Amess (Conservative, Southend West)
May I have Tim Loughtons question, immediately followed by Mr. Timpsons?
Tim Loughton (Conservative, East Worthing and Shoreham)
Yes, but is it the view of the other two witnesses?
Tim Loughton (Conservative, East Worthing and Shoreham)
Well, the Bill will put on a statutory footing the inclusion of PSHE subjects on a formal basis. Given that we have had evidence that it already features in the curriculum
Sir David Amess (Conservative, Southend West)
May we now have questions from Mr. Timpson, followed by Martin Linton and then Annette Brooke? We can see how little time there is left.
Sir David Amess (Conservative, Southend West)
Colleagues, I regret intervening but there are two minutes left. Annette Brooke has been waiting patiently with the last question.
Sir David Amess (Conservative, Southend West)
Sadly I must intervene. On behalf of the Committee, I extend a big thank you to our witnesses for the time you have spent with us this morning. Your contributions have been most valuable in terms of our deliberations on the Bill when we examine it line by line.
Written evidence to be reported to the House
Janet Anderson (Labour, Rossendale and Darwen)
I welcome everyone to this Committee session on the Children, Schools and Families Bill. May I remind hon. Members and witnesses that we are bound by the deadline agreed to on Tuesday? That means that this part of the evidence session must end at 2.30 pm. I hope that I do not have to interrupt hon. Members and witnesses in the middle of their sentences, but I warn you that I will do so if need be, as it is important that we stick to the time and ensure that everyone who wants to has an opportunity to contribute.
We will now hear evidence from the Teenage Pregnancy Independent Advisory Group, the Personal, Sexual, Health Education Association, the Church of England, the Catholic Education Service and the Campaign Against Premature and Inappropriate Sex and Relationship Education in Schools.
Welcome to our meeting this afternoon. Would you please introduce yourselves to the Committee?
Janet Anderson (Labour, Rossendale and Darwen)
I believe that Tim Loughton would like to put the first question.
Janet Anderson (Labour, Rossendale and Darwen)
Caroline, could you be fairly brief, because we have three other questioners, and we have only 15 minutes left? Thank you.
Janet Anderson (Labour, Rossendale and Darwen)
Jan Campbell, would you like to start?
Janet Anderson (Labour, Rossendale and Darwen)
I know that the Minister particularly wants to say something. I shall bring him in now.
Janet Anderson (Labour, Rossendale and Darwen)
May I ask you all to be fairly brief because the Minister wants to come back with another question, and we are short of time.
Graham Stuart (Conservative, Beverley and Holderness)
Can you name one?
Janet Anderson (Labour, Rossendale and Darwen)
My apologies, but may we move on? Nick Gibb would like to ask something and we have two minutes left. Very quickly, Mr. Khan.
Nick Gibb (Conservative, Bognor Regis and Littlehampton)
What maximum should it be?
Nick Gibb (Conservative, Bognor Regis and Littlehampton)
We have to.
Nick Gibb (Conservative, Bognor Regis and Littlehampton)
We dothere are guided hours, and most GCSEs are regarded as 10 per cent. of the curriculum.
Janet Anderson (Labour, Rossendale and Darwen)
I am very sorry, but I am afraid that brings us to the end of the time allotted for the Committee to ask questions of the witnesses. Thank you for giving up your time. The legislation will be much better informed for us having heard your views. Thank you very much indeed.
Janet Anderson (Labour, Rossendale and Darwen)
We cannot locate your statement at the moment, Sir Mark, but we will make sure that we find it and distribute it to the Committee.
Janet Anderson (Labour, Rossendale and Darwen)
Thank you. We have now found your statement and circulated it, incidentally.
Tim Loughton (Conservative, East Worthing and Shoreham)
What is the benefit of reporting on adoption cases, particularly uncontested ones?
Nick Gibb (Conservative, Bognor Regis and Littlehampton)
Disinfectant.
Tim Loughton (Conservative, East Worthing and Shoreham)
That is the word I was after, thank you. Disinfectant, but only up to a stage. As I said earlier, problems in the court occur where there are doubts about the veracity and competence of certain court officials in some things that they have prepared. Some people, because they are doing their job badly, might tend to recommend that care proceedings go a certain way, and that might be unfair. I think that that is where there is a problem in the court.
None of what I have heard from you appears to address why we need to do something about that as the main problem, or why that would solve it. To take Nick Crichtons earlier example, he regularly has media people in his court. If you were given greater powers and you were a court reporter in Judge Crichtons court, and he, knowing that you had the power to stay there and report on it, came up to you and said, We have a 15-year-old girl, and we think that if there is a media person in my court, she will do a bunk, would you be inclined to say, Fair cop, we wont report it.?
Tim Loughton (Conservative, East Worthing and Shoreham)
But you will have
Tim Loughton (Conservative, East Worthing and Shoreham)
So we have got to a yes.
Janet Anderson (Labour, Rossendale and Darwen)
Judge Crichton, did you want to come in? I think you are bursting to say something.
Janet Anderson (Labour, Rossendale and Darwen)
I do not think that we know the answer to your question, but we can certainly try to find out.
Bridget Prentice (Labour, Lewisham East)
You must have principles of some sort.
Janet Anderson (Labour, Rossendale and Darwen)
Mr. Satchwell, I am sorry but I have to stop you there. We have just over one minute, and I know that the Minister wants to speak.
Janet Anderson (Labour, Rossendale and Darwen)
You have 10 seconds.
Janet Anderson (Labour, Rossendale and Darwen)
Dr. Brophy, I am very sorry, but we have to end there. Perhaps the witnesses would like to let us have their written comments on the Ministers question. That would be very helpful. Thank you all very much. We have now come to the end of the Committees allotted time. On behalf of the Committee, I thank all the witnesses for giving up their time.
The Committee will sit again on Tuesday morning at 10.30 am, when we commence our line-by-line scrutiny of the Bill.